Minato is deflee strong asl. I think what worried him the most about Obito was the fact that he wasn’t strong enough to outright kill him and now the fact that Obito now has a better understanding of how Minato fights he left everything to Naruto…not to mention that the seal used on Naruto would keep Kurama from falling into Obito’s hands much sooner and give them time to develop countermeasures.
I have to disagree with the Rinnegan not being a big amp. Obito pretty directly attributes his War Arc feats due to having one Rinnegan when Sakura was healing him, stating something along the line of: "Even with one eye, I was able to do all this"
@Virhtue The whole conversation he has with Sakura revolves around how powerful the Rinnegan amp is, though, at no point in it does he really reference any of the Tailed Beasts or being the Ten Tails Jinchuriki, he's simply scared of how powerful the Rinnegan is. This again goes back to him referencing it as the amp that allowed him to have the performance he had as White Mask.
@@CH1C4N0444 He was talking about MADARA getting HIS OWN two rinnegan back & how they are way stronger as a pair. They aren’t as strong if you aren’t the original owner.
@Ralffy1 Yes, that was part of the conversation. Yes, they are stronger for the original owner. They're also stronger as a pair, but that's not the point. Obito directly attributes his performance in the War Arc to having had the one eye. "I'm not even the original owner, AND I COULD STILL DO ALL THIS." I don't know how you read Obito acknowledging that one eye gave him to do the power do what he did and not think it's a massive power amp
VIZ does not do the corrections to the manga. They just translate it into English. Obito was constantly having his chakra drained to maintain Kurama's summoning in Konoha, for what that is worth (Minato was also fatigued, but I think keeping Kurama active might have been more taxing). Obito was closer to twelve-fourteen when he fought Minato. Itachi did not rival Obito. He was just close enough not to be overwhelmed by his aura. Two can be opponents without being equals. Itachi retroactively might have shown his illness insofar that three uses of his Mangekyō caused him to be completely fatigued. The idea only Naruto can surpass Minato is questionable given Sasuke keeps pace with Naruto. It is stated that White Mask Obito had overwhelming power that even B, Naruto, Guy, and Kakashi only caused a scratch unto him, which seems like a notable upgrade from prior, I would say. Obito described the power of the Rinnegan as what would drive him mad. He warned that Madara, with the power of two, would be unstoppable, compared to himself with one. Seems fairly clear-cut. 18:45 The clone did not "pop", it was warped away. Obito also was able to throw a punch to wrap Naruto in Wood Release, which I would say indicates they are fully relative, or that Obito even has a slight edge when Naruto is not expanding. Obito against Minato with the white mask would be more willing to use Rinnegan abilities since Minato is unaware of how to counter them, which is the reason he did not use them against Naruto or Kakashi. Exempli gratia, Minato might get blasted back with Shinra Tensei if he gets close.
I would just like to put something into perspective, you say Obito was taxed out more than Minato, okay sure, but now think about this, first time mothers enter labor (the proces of birthing a child) for about 12-18 hours, Minato would have had to been A: Awake the whole time, and B: Have had to ACTIVELY maintain the seal on Kushina so the Nine Tails wouldn't escape, now factor in the fact that he had also teleported a full nine tails biju bomb and THEN went to fight Obito on top, in my honest opinion Minato was the one more fatigued and taxed out by far.
@@Draxeid Minato mused Obito could not keep Kurama summoned in real space for more than a few minutes due to the chakra tax, since he was rushing the fight. He also had to summon Kurama all its own. Just to summon Gamabunta the first time, Naruto needed to tap into Kurama's chakra, and Gamabunta is not even as taxing as even half of Kurama, nor does it require chakra to keep summoned afterwards. So yes, I think maintaining that might have been worse than what Minato had to go through.
1 U haven’t proved why mainting a summon would drain the user at all when that simply has never been stated 2 Naruto being the only one capable of surpassing minato and by extension can include sasuke only benifits sasuke and Naruto (especially when they are still teenagers giving them lots of room) what the statment doesn’t include is characters like Itachi OM obito pain ect which works in minato’s favour stop trying to come up with nonsensical interpretations
Virthue I respect the time you took to film this video but I'm sorry, Wm Obito slams man and even orange Mask Obito wins. Minato doesn't have the slightest of feats that compares him to kcm 2 naruto and most of your arguments favors Minato. Like you don't mention the fact that Obito at 14 was fighting Minato while controlling the full Nine tails which was draining him and Minato knew that he had to win this fight quick due to that. If we go by your head cannon logic that can explain why he gets beaten by such an attack because he was in a hurry (we're not going to use that of course). Second off, he doesn't have any knowledge about Izanagi and the Rinnegan. At the very leats, he never fought against it before. Kcm Minato is more comparable to Wm Obito, whose destructive power is compared to Edo Madara!!! If we go by your logic, the same alive Minato wins againt Madara edo and Im sorry I dont see that happening this version of Obito was handling Kcm 2 Naruto, 7 gates guy, Kakashi Ms and Bee tailed beast form with ease and the only reason they landed an attack was because of Kakashi's Mangekyo. If you're going to make a video about two characters make sure to use both arguments in an objective manner and not subjective. Using Itachi as a staple to measure Obito's power while he at the time didn't even show the Susanoo and before Obito was introduced is also crazy lol. If we use that same logic of relativeness, then Minato doesn't scale to Wm Obito since he scales to Edo Madara who scales to Hashirama whos the God of shimobi aka the strongest hokage before Naruto came along.That's a crazy reach. Eitherway, dope video as always and keep it up!
I don’t see a prime alive minato beating rinnegan obito. Hypothetically speaking, if he summoned the ten tails, gedo statue, or used the 6 paths of pain what is he realistically doing. I feel like rinnegan obito scales ~ KCM2 Naruto. Rinnegan obito could mid-diff prime minato and high diff war arc minato. Also, saying Minato scales to KCM2 since he parried a bijuudama is untrue. He parried just a few attacks, in a battle of attribution to the death Kurama beats prime Minato. Minato realistically scales to KCM1 (just barely above Pain). But then again what do I know
Great video I honestly think OM Obito is way stronger than he was vs Minato. The guy has had about 16 years to train and get stronger. Going from 14 - 31 as a shinobi should give one a massive boost in physical stats. At 14 the guy had the full 9 tails under genjutsu and in a contract seal. Minato thought he was Madara and a bigger threat than the 9 tails itself. His feats at this age are simply unrivaled He showed his youth vs Minato and lost due to arrogance while Minato was coming for blood. But at 31 he should be way more alert if he were to face Hokage Minato again. I think it could go either way if he doesn't have the ftg seal on him. Also I think WM Obito is only challenged by KCM Minato
@Virhtue please do talk about it. because although open to a change in perspective, I'm of the opinion that he had to at least make an effort to refine his newly acquired skills. By skills I mean the following: He was taught a bunch of techniques by Madara. He acquired wood release. He had a new mangekyo with techniques that needed some getting used to, as seen in the scene when he struggles to hold Rin after rampaging. Against Minato, he is shown to have grown considerably with regards to kamui, so he at least practiced that technique. He is also one of the Uchiha who have achieved mastery beyond the Mangekyo, achieving mastery of any technique requires practice. Also, aside from new techniques he learned, he also grew from a teenage boy to a man in his early 30s. I understand that growing in age does not equate to growth in strength. However, what shinobi stays stagnant in strength from 14 to 31? Especially a shinobi that has a dream of creating an entirely new world.
In a way what Minato would need 1 thing to beat obito and it's the hiraishin. Don't forget that obito still has the mark and the hiraishin level to consist to attack while teleporting so the moment minato teleport obito is dead . not juubito tho
Also, don't forget that even before Minato started fighting Kurama and Obito, he was fatigued because he was keeping Kurama's seal in check during the labor process.
Where was it stated that he was fatigued? I don’t remember him showing any signs of chakra exhaustion, and given the fact that minato himself acknowledged that they were both in a rush due to obito having to control the 9 tails, it was bound to be a quick fight not a drawn out battle where they would have to rely on their stamina to begin with
@@dc5855 It was not stated on screen or on panel, but if you observe the scene, they show that Minato was there the whole time ,while Kushina was giving birth, reinforcing the seal.
@@davidpap5369 he should no exhaustion either way bro plus what do u think would be harder mainting chakra of the 9 tails leaking out of a seal or controlling the entire 9 tails itself? Like I said both were in a rush so it wasn’t a stamina dependent fight it was a fight that was going to based on a single attack.
I do like it when you do it like that i encountered someone who said minato is non mastered kcm1 level now i can show them this vid . Thank you my friend
The reality is minato is above most people. His scaling is just under the big 4 madara saske the 1st and naruto. And while not as likely he does have win states vs all of them if circumstances go his way
@@giannixxway above tobirama. Tobirama is highly overrated. However wm obito is definitely beating Minato, we have to remember he was 14 the first time they fought
@@LuiopK Imo Mei low-mid diffs Kakuzu. She is the weakest of the 5 Kage, but Kakuzu himself isn't even Kage level. She was able to press a (fatigued) MS Sasuke, while Kakuzu was inferior to pre-Hebi Sasuke (prior to absorbing Orochimaru). The only argument I can see in Kakuzu's favor is his fabled raw durability, as we don't know whether or not Mei's Lava Style (or Acid) would be able to harm him. However, he can't move the body parts he hardens, so he has to make at least part of his body vulnerable in order to attack. And Mei has AoE options. I think she is above him enough that she would be able to deal with the flying hearts (look at Kakashi's performance, and he was relative to Kakuzu). If Diamond Morph can tank the Lava and Acid Style techniques, Mei wins more often than not (mid-high diff) but can still lose. If it can't and either or both elemental releases can counter it, then she wins low-mid diff, depending on how overwhelmed she would be by the hearts and on how easily she could kill them.
@@LuiopK I'm going by scaling rather than by databooks. If Hidan is Kage level, than so is Asuma, for example. And Asuma is one of the prime examples of what a Jounin looks like. I'll expand the chain I gave. Mei is one of the weakest Kage we've seen, and she was able to press 5ks Sasuke. So was the Raikage. Now let's consider that Hebi Sasuke was either relative or weaker than Mei. Hebi Sasuke was physically superior to Deidara, but wasn't as strong as a full power Orochimaru. Beginning of Shippuden Sasuke had to wait until Orochimaru's illness made him weak enough, so it's reasonable to put him below the one who fought 4 tails Naruto. When Naruto beats Kakuzu with the Rasenshuriken, he still thinks he needs to catch up to Sasuke. Kakuzu is stronger than Hidan. Also, the term itself is fan-made, it's just a reference. But the labels aren't as relevant as the relation between the characters' abilities. And I'm counting the physical stats here, not the hax. Kakuzu's special abilities are what even make him have a chance to win against stronger opponents, hence why I said that depending on how their jutsu interact, Mei might actually lose. But if every Kage we've ever seen is leagues above the level of Hidan, how reasonable is to say he is "Kage level"? My ranking goes: High Kage: Ohnoki, Tsunade 100 Healings, Raikage V2, peak 5kgs Sasuke, Sage Naruto, War Arc Gaara. Kage: Old man Hiruzen, Orochimaru, Danzou, Raikage v1, Sage Jiraiya, Mei, Hebi Sasuke, Tsunade base, Raikage base, Jiraiya base. Low Kage: full power Juugo, Suigetsu, Deidara, Sasori, early Shippuden Sasuke, sick Orochimaru, early Shippuden Gaara, Chiyo. Peak Jounin: early Shippuden Kakashi, Rasenshuriken Naruto, Kakuzu, Yamato. Elite Jounin: Part 1 Kakashi, Kabuto, Hidan, Zabuza. Even if you wanted to high ball Hidan and say he was on Kakashi's level (which doesn't make sense bc Kakashi was fighting Hidan and Kakuzu's hearts comboing together, and also had to protect Ino and Chouji, and wasn't cut once, and Kakashi is supposed to be above Asuma, who was able to tag Hidan, so it has to go Kakashi > Hidan > Asuma), it doesn't change the fact that he is still below the likes of Deidara and pre-Hebi Sasuke. And those would get smoked by the Raikage, for example. So through scaling and context we can see Mei is supposed to be a tier above the weaker Akatsuki members. Remember that Deidara was getting blitzed by Hebi Sasuke, for example. Not to mention that the databooks are known to not be completely reliable nor consistent with their statements, and you always have to take them with a grain of salt.
@@kinginblack2845 He underestimated Konan and toyed with Danzo's lapdogs 🤦♂️ are we really going to act like Minato never underestimates people or toys with them? Come on now.
@@alexrobinet7576or maybe just maybe because the full thing never comes out. Literally ever. No one could ever know that. Plus how would anyone even know how powerful it's meant to be anyway?
@@___________0Z0X during the war everyone is there and no one mentions it the entire time not madara hashirama tobirama. Not kin or ginkaku none of the kage none of the hokage not orochimaru before or during not jiraiya in training not itachi who was in the village and saved his own mom during the ninetails attack on konoha. Minato even accurately accessed the gap between pain and obito. Specifically stating naruto needed the ninetails. That was when he thought obito was madara btw.
You have to make a video detailing all the chakra usage nagato used during the pain vs naruto fight. Even showing up to the leaf village, nagato was using long distance chakra to even move the 6 dead bodies of pain. The leaf ninja pain killed before entering the leaf. The summoning jutsu after pain broke into the leaf village. Every single jutsu and chakra usage he used while hunting for naruto. How many almighty pushes did pain use on kakashi? How many universal pulls on kakashi, konahamaru, the jutsu used to kill shizune and soul remove her. Nagato cut his life span down when he used super almighty push, he did all this BEFORE fighting a prepped sage mode healthy naruto. Then nagato had to fight the 4 tails (anime) 6 tails version and had to hold back the 8 tails version of naruto. Its insane how much chakra nagato has. And nagato had to fight while he couldnt out right kill naruto either. He had to restrain himself.
@@johnsonjohnny675 Thank you. Everyone ALWAYS over looks this fact. And not only did he almost kill the whole village, the leaf village is strongest village in the largest nation at the time as well. Andddd.. It was confirmed by ino and shikimarus fathers that nagato was constantly changing his chakra frequencies so sensory type ninja couldn't track his location. Nagato was doing all of that while hunting naruto and while fighting the entire leaf village and anbu members and elite jonin class ninja like kakashi and sage mode naruto and the 9tails and kage level frog summoning all without a break for rest.
The Hiraishin works like that for exemple take a point a and a point b . The moment minato disappear from a is the same moment he reappear to b that what the hiraishin is said to be instantaneous the moment you disappear from a place is the same moment you reappear at another place where a kunai is or a mark is placed . the Hiraishin level two is like that the moment you disappear and reappear is the same moment the attack will land on the enemy it's instantenious my friend.
You then contradict the second databook jutsu file explaining it, the third databook’s dictionary section, the fourth databook’s Mini Jutsu file on the Flying Thunder God Guiding Thunder, Minato blitzing his own in in 630-631, Tobirama stating it has a speed equation, the relocation argument. Brother, you can’t some here without explanation and loads of it with the “it’s said to be instant” which are also hyperbolic seeing as many statements are made like that regarding other things or, the nerve transmission corresponding to the subspace opening is instant.
Stop acting like his powers are kcm1 or two hes fast his ap shit hes not beating the raikage. People never say how he get throw the lightning clock. If the third raikage can tank biju bomb and the 4 is stronger ? Minato has zero ap feat on the ninetails just remember 14 year old obito can tank a rasangon from hokage Minato and a stab.
@@stephenking2895 Don’t care. still is a very good AP feat. And that was him as a teenager. Naruto thought that the mini tailed beast bomb in kcm 1 would one shot the 3rd raikage & that was KCM1 which minato scales way above.
@@Ralffy1 u should especially if your gonna bring it up. Sure it’s a good feat but to the level you’re gassing it too. Yeah cause he thought that was scared the raikage but it wasn’t. He tanked a full one from the eight tails. He does not scale “way” above that.
I am strongly leaning to Minato being the victor he has an edge with justsu proficiency in FTG, Body Flicker (in my POV it is the thing that gives him edge over other teleporters) and reaction speed specially if SM is activated even just for a minimum of time as every second is crucial. Obito still has 1 MS and him having Rinnegan still not giving him enough perceptive boost and still have same weakness as his younger self which is not fast enough to overwhelm Minato. He just have more means to attack Minato now with his White Mask version, but superior battle IQ and jutsu proficiency is the key, a simple Shadow Clone from Minato can easily turn the tide of the battle and give him openning to exploit again the same weakness of Obito. It is a counter arguement on why is Obito not using wood release while he can do so, same applies to Minato's Shadow Clone and Sage Mode. He can take everything using shadow clone just to test the water. This is a battle of who catches the other off guard first. If it is their first time battling each other with this version, Obito's arrogance will be his downfall. And if it is the second time around, ofc each of them already prepared some counter to one another and same trick will not work the second time around. But the thing is, it is like a chess game and the one with the most battle IQ will be the winner and who's that? Even Kurama fooled Obito by throwing Kakashi into his Kamui. Obito might have a chance with DMS enhanced by 6Path's power as this is the only thing that implies to be able to give a boost in his speed. Even Madara able to react to Minato's Sage FTG bec the author decided to have dumb move to make Minato's kunai landed in front of Madara for Sage FTG attack and ofc Madara has superior sensory abilities in the name of 6PSM and Rinnegan + Sharingan and on top of that, it is an easily detectable on the line of sight frontal attack, this is done to showcase and give us a hint with the difference in perceptive level. But take in consideration that this Minato is an Edo version which also means, he still not in his prime, just saying. The legacy of Minato even is still alive in Boruto generation. FTG still relevant enough in the fights with the Shinjus. With intro of Otsusukis and Shinjus, massive destructive power is not enough if you cannot even hit your opponent. Even implied FTG is inferior to Claw mark teleportation but was also emphasized that Minato's proficiency even surpasses Boruto's and yet Boruto can still overwhelm the claw mark users. Same applies with the Kamui. Mind you, Boruto entered and exited Ishiki's dimension using only the FTG. So same applies to Kamui. Obito is just arrogant before as the battle of two Space/Time teleporter was never been seen before and is only relying on theories. What is he going to do with Minato even if successfully sucked him into his dimension?, there is no way he can trap him forever.
I think WM Obito would actually benefit it wasn't their first battle. Yes he does have the FTG Mark on him, but he could bully Minato into his daze state where he would clap him up.
Solid work per usual. I think WM Obito if he has the Edo Jinchuriki and Gedo statue would definitely overwhelm Minato plus he's never fought against someone with the Rinnegan so Obito would be utilizing that much more. But in the scenario that it's just WM Obito by himself on the night of the attack Minato has a better chance, probably still go with Obito though. I mean he was relative to Madara at that point. Also if Hanzo vs The Akatsuki isn't your next video we're gonna have some words
@@Virhtue Because the fight technically happened already, it was just interrupted by Madara before it concluded. During Chapter 657 Black Zetsu had taken control of Obito (Right after Rinne Rebirth) and opted to fight both Minato (He was in KCM) and Kakashi. Most of the fight takes place off screen while we focus on Madara subduing the Biju and later fighting Sasuke and Tobirama, however when the we see them next (Chapter 664) "Obito" is standing his ground, there's smoke all around them from the battle, Minato got knocked out of KCM at some point and both he and Kakashi are out of breath. We're not quite sure how hard Black Zetsu/Obito were pushing them, but in Chapter 661 Madara asks how "Obito's" fight is going and White Zetsu replies that it's going favorably. Maybe the duo would have turned things around eventually but from the available evidence it seems Rinnegan Obito is somewhat stronger.
question tho, if minato tries to FTG to the mark while phasing through the mark he originally teleported to, wouldn’t he trap himself inside the kamui dimension?
The thing is the mark isn't sent to Kamui, Obito sends the body part to Kamui which would technically make that area none touchable. But if Obito sucked in a kunai with FTG and Minato tries to use the jutsu, I don't believe it would activate as this is a sealed dimension which requires a jutsu Minato doesn't have, Kamui which is the only entry into the realm, why do you think we never see it again or why Kaguya couldn't access it or any of the other Outsutsuki.
EOS Sakura (meaning the last) should be stronger than everyone in shuppiden except 8th gate guy, 10 tails obito, madara, kaguya, etc so the 20th strongest character give or take
I don't see Minato beating wm obito with all the bijuu, i don't see him beating any version other than the kid version that he barley beating Maybe this video will change my mind about midnato
Nah bro one word hiraishin its just that you don't truly understand how op hiraishin is with hiraishin fuinjutsu sage mode and rasengan minato is truly a kcm level 2 threat
"Obito who turned out to be alive, and Madara who was resurrected by Edo Tensei rage against the world with the same overwhelming strength." Based on this statement Alive Minato gets stomped, KCM2 Minato is another story.
Minato is the strongest in the verse bro. Didn’t you hear? “Only one with the hopes of surpassing him is naruto.” Not madara, not hashirama, not Obito, not kakashi, not sasuke, not Gai.
@@kevingbergiste7372 I mean there is also the statement that each generation surpasses the one before it and imo Alive Minato is also narratively implied to lose to Alive Hashirama, Alive Madara, Sasuke, and Hokage Kakashi….
@@slimxjimki no way dude. He has FTG and his body flicker is so fast. He literally just blitzes people you’d think are stronger than him with just a kunai and rasengan. He literally combatted a bijou bomb from the full 9 tails with a base rasengan that he invented just earlier that day.
@@kevingbergiste7372Madara and hashirama were dead and they didn’t have an actual clue who obito was on top of that he was the enemy so yes they say minato. That doesn’t place minato above the 3 others listed
Minato didn't outspeed Obito in a normal sense, he did a very simple action using body flicker. Not to mention he could've just appeared slow to trick Minato since he clearly is relative later. Monitoring an existing seal has nothing to do with creating a whole new seal. It wouldn't even make sense for him to be able to seal the whole 9 tails as he says it's impossible for him to physically do. This only adds consistency hes around hiruzen level sealing since Orochimaru tightens naruto seal just like Minato was prepared to do with kushina. Also idk why Kcm2 Naruto was mentioned, its a combination of Naruto chakra and Kurama chakra, and hes a perfect jinchuriki. So not only is it NOT just kuramas chakra, but we know verbatim that jinchuriki utilize chakra better. Like are we gonna say Sage Mode Naruto and Killer Bee are KCM2 Naruto level because they harmed Half Kurama by himself??? The body flicker doesn't scale ro combat speed btw, which is made evident by the fact Tobirama has better perception and combat speed feats than Minato. And he says he is quick at striking while he is in KCM. Implying that Kakashi thinking KCM2 Naruto was Minato would imply he could redirect 5 bijuu bomb at once. At this point this doesn't even SOUND believable. Like Minato being hyped up this much would imply Obito as a kid was Kcm2 level, as him and Minato imply it could go either way. The Obito sections really don't matter, Minato thinks the fight was really close, Obito thought it was too. Minato blatantly has statements comparing him and KCM Naruto in their actual speed feats, probably referring to body flicker. Which seems low but its unironically not slow at all, every time we see someone react to KCM Naruto its someone you can imply is physically on par with Minatos speed or faster, while when he goes KCM2 he's outspeeding sage blind Madara at the time, Obito can't physically react despite reacting to Minato and needs Kamui, he's able to blitz the bijuu who all can keep up with Sage blind madara somewhat. Like theres legit no way to scale Minato to those levels without dishonest arguments about Kurama being stronger YEARS ago, when the war kurama avatar was with Naruto as a perfect jinchuriki and Narutos own chakra being used in the kcm transformations as well. Which is further supported by the fact that when he gives other people chakra it has his AND kuramas chakra, and when the other shinobi are literally inside of the kurama avatar they get the yellow cloak which has significantly more of Narutos own chakra mixes.
Prove your first claim and account and hence counter my argument of the same applying to Minato. Also Minato didn’t think the fight was close he though it was threatening and knew he would win; he simply notes skepticism about Kamui’s nature
@@Virhtue Wdym? Prove that flicking in a straight line isn't comparable to combat speed? Like it's not something needing to be proven, it doesn't enhance how fast your arms or eyes are. Obito literally reacts to him in the fight twice. And your only counter argument for him grabbing Minatos hand was the idea Minato slowed down, when how attacking works is you want to break THROUGH the object, meaning you want to carry the force as if you're trying to get your hand through the either side of the target. This is basic fighting mechanics. Not to mention with those same fighting mechanics it's basic to also pull back your hand after you go through a target, so Obito grabbing him was simply faster than him pulling his hand back.
@@kakuzugoated873 didn't Minato ftg a 10 tails bomb? It's perfectly plausible that he could do any feat Naruto could do. The narrative the Minato vs Obito was close to isn't true. Obito has a very hax ability. Minato acknowledging Obito s danger level isn't the same as the fight being close. Obito did everything right and still lost. The question I have for you is where do you place Minato? He's definitely stronger than sage mode right? He's at least kcm1 level right? The consensus is that Obito is stronger than pain. That same nageto would have killed kcm1 Naruto and killer bee. That same nageto who's weaker than Obito lost to Minato. Minato at worst has to be kcm1 but most likely above kcm1.5 and around kcm2 otherwise the story doesn't make sense.
@@johnsonjohnny675 I'm saying because it's 5 bijuu bombs at once, he shouldn't be able to open 5 portals simultaneously. And he only mentions Minato in comparison to kcm2 Naruto when looking at his cloak which looks similar to Minatos. Its not plausible, there's like no implication of that. They literally say the fight can go either way, idk how that's not close. We even learn that Obito would've won had he went all out before Minato figured out Kamui. Which he did by tagging Minato btw Obviously he's stronger than Kcm Naruto, he has similar speed and better AP with rasengan with sealing. Minato only compares pain and Obito, not uncrippled Nagato without splitting his chakra to puppets and having a portion of bijuu chakra amping him. Or, Minato is simply kcm Naruto level in combat speed, has teleportation, better AP, and seals. While Kid Obito is relative in combat speed, and has a better space time Ninjutsu, however it's perfectly countered by ftg. Adult Obito is stronger, has a rinnegan, and has better combat speed than Minato now. He was inches from beating Minato, he's faster now and would simply beat him this time around, not to mention Obito would tank Minatos rasengan.
@@kakuzugoated873 a fight can be Obito could have one the fight because he had everything in his favor. Surprise, the perfect night, minato being weaker etc You also fail to mention that minato did in fact blitz Obito when he first encountered him in the bedroom. Minato also held back in that fight. They both were gathering information vs one another. If your argument is Obito has a win a state in a second fight then I'd agree. He does have a win state. But Minato would also have more information. The fight was a test of skill and Obito had prior knowledge of ftg and could plan for it and still lost. That Obito simply isn't strong enough. Obito doesn't have a counter for ftg. Also nageto = pain. Pain clamped the entire village and still beat sage mode Naruto with Intel. Minato seen that and still thought the real threat was Obito hence the scaling. Obito > pain=Itachi that's the narrative implication. If Obito is at or above kcm2 then So is Minato. Lastly even if Minato was awful at sage mode ( he isn't) that 30 seconds - 3 mins of amped speed, strength and perception is more than enough to boost him well over kcm2.
@RoundOfApplauseChannel In a versus battle where both combatants start off fresh, yeah, it doesn't, but you're trying to say Minato blized Rinnegan Obito without considering the full context of that sequence. Let's not act like there weren't various factors in play against Obito in that specific moment in time because there was.
The only wrong interpretation here is youres 😂🤣😅 you are just doing naruto math based on fanbooks 🤣😂😅 ftg is an instant transportation this has nothing to Do with speed
Yeah I just don't see Minato beating WM Obito. The only reason 14 year old Obito lost, is because he underestimated him. That same strategy will 100% not work again. And the strategy was only to make Obito think he can touch him, so he undid Kamui. Although Obito lost his old chains, he does in fact use the rinnegan chains, something he can also blizt Minato with. He also likes to fight with rods. Which getting hit with a few will slow Minato down. To be honest, I'll give Obito 7-10. Cause Obito can just pressure Minato from long range to force him to spam FTG, which eventually however long, will make him run low on chakra. Knowing Obito who is an Uchiha and has Hashirama cells plus six paths chakra due to having the rinnegan would outlast Minato in chakra. Fighting close range would not favor Minato since Obito has no problem reacting to his combat speed, which would make better use of Kamui and Obito knowing what Minato would do if he throws a Kunai at him. And my personal opinion, WM Obito is slightly faster than Minato in combat speed. If he had no problem reacting to his combat speed at 14, with an extra 15 years of experience and buffs. He would definitely not stay the same lvl of speed. So close range and long range is a disadvantage for Minato. And what plan can we give to Minato that Obito already knows about if they fought again? I say Obito got this one, but a good fight
really good assessment but i just wanna note that minato was likely matching 14 year old obito's speed since like you said he wanted obito to think he could touch him and deactivate kamui, so that probably wasn't his max combat speed. i agree with everything you said tho
@@chocomint8261 That could be the case, but then again I doubt Minato would play around with a guy that put the whole Leaf in danger instantly and tried to kill his firstborn son. Me personally all the times Minato got blizt, he wasn't playing around. To give him the matching speed of WM Obito out of nowhere is kinda insane
Unrivaled strength? Itachi was a kid when Minato was alive... Yellow Flash: "An absolutely unavoidable blade (that moves) at the speed of light.." Tsukuyomi: "Even a body made of iron or the speed of light are powerless before this jutsu." Obito was willing to fight Minato but not Itachi. Sasuke throws all his strength at him, but he is cornered by Itachi's power and determination, which surpasses all others (2nd fanbook p102) Danzo to Itachi: I have a question for the most talented genius ever to grace the halls of the academy. "The guy's frankly overpowered" - Killer B, who's seen Minato. Zetsu called Itachi invincible even after seeing all of shinobi history. I could go on. Itachi's hype and portrayal is unparalleled.
Yeah but Obito has a mangekyou sharingan and break out of the jutsu like Sasuke did. Itachi quite literally has nothing but planning against Obito but even then he doesn't know Obito's full abilities which gives Obito a massive advantage. Also, why would Obito fight Itachi? He knows that he was going to die any way and Itachi was a useful tool, bringing funds and resources to the Akatsuki.
@@marwyn8152 when does it mention Kamui isn't going to work on it? The Third Databook made it clear that the Yata mirror has no set properties and can alter itself be it physical or spiritual and can use all nature transformation. Kamui is neither physical or spiritual because it works by moving the body parts of Obito meaning the area that the area that is supposed to be touching the Yata mirror is in the Kamui dimension and that is how Obito walks through walls. It can't nullify any attack or jutsu as there is no attack or jutsu to nullify as there is nothing touching it. You're making things up, Kamui is one of the clear counters of the Yata mirror.
First where are u getting that obito is 17 and not 14? Why would a 14 year old not be stronger as an adult 16 years later? Look at ANY 14 year old in Naruto and compare them to when they are an adult and u see a MASSIVE difference yet we have to act like it’s an actual argument that obito got stronger??? 3. When minato beat obito he acknowledged the fight would be by a split second diffence then proceeded to OUTSMART obito, he didn’t blitz obito if that’s the case the fight wouldn’t have been by a split second he would just blitz obito at any point during that fight, he wasn’t flat out stronger or faster he simply outsmarted obito got him to lower his guard then landed his attack. With that last point being said why would a FASTER, stronger, smarter more durable, obito who would no longer lose his arm to rasnegan, lose to the same minato when he can no longer be put down with a single rasnegan yet still needs a touch to win. I mean seriously 14 year old obito lost by a SPLIT SECOND what is there to argue about??? Om obito would win this. I don’t understand why this fandom is so disingenuous
Nah that voice crack at 6:14 is crazy
LOL
Damn, why'd you make me listen to it again 😂😂
Minato is deflee strong asl. I think what worried him the most about Obito was the fact that he wasn’t strong enough to outright kill him and now the fact that Obito now has a better understanding of how Minato fights he left everything to Naruto…not to mention that the seal used on Naruto would keep Kurama from falling into Obito’s hands much sooner and give them time to develop countermeasures.
He would of been strong enough to kill him
I have to disagree with the Rinnegan not being a big amp. Obito pretty directly attributes his War Arc feats due to having one Rinnegan when Sakura was healing him, stating something along the line of: "Even with one eye, I was able to do all this"
Yeah, his accomplishments with the biju
He can’t really handle them that well I don’t think it was that big of an amp either other than using the 6 paths.
@Virhtue The whole conversation he has with Sakura revolves around how powerful the Rinnegan amp is, though, at no point in it does he really reference any of the Tailed Beasts or being the Ten Tails Jinchuriki, he's simply scared of how powerful the Rinnegan is. This again goes back to him referencing it as the amp that allowed him to have the performance he had as White Mask.
@@CH1C4N0444 He was talking about MADARA getting HIS OWN two rinnegan back & how they are way stronger as a pair. They aren’t as strong if you aren’t the original owner.
@Ralffy1 Yes, that was part of the conversation. Yes, they are stronger for the original owner. They're also stronger as a pair, but that's not the point.
Obito directly attributes his performance in the War Arc to having had the one eye.
"I'm not even the original owner, AND I COULD STILL DO ALL THIS." I don't know how you read Obito acknowledging that one eye gave him to do the power do what he did and not think it's a massive power amp
VIZ does not do the corrections to the manga. They just translate it into English.
Obito was constantly having his chakra drained to maintain Kurama's summoning in Konoha, for what that is worth (Minato was also fatigued, but I think keeping Kurama active might have been more taxing).
Obito was closer to twelve-fourteen when he fought Minato.
Itachi did not rival Obito. He was just close enough not to be overwhelmed by his aura. Two can be opponents without being equals.
Itachi retroactively might have shown his illness insofar that three uses of his Mangekyō caused him to be completely fatigued.
The idea only Naruto can surpass Minato is questionable given Sasuke keeps pace with Naruto.
It is stated that White Mask Obito had overwhelming power that even B, Naruto, Guy, and Kakashi only caused a scratch unto him, which seems like a notable upgrade from prior, I would say. Obito described the power of the Rinnegan as what would drive him mad. He warned that Madara, with the power of two, would be unstoppable, compared to himself with one. Seems fairly clear-cut.
18:45 The clone did not "pop", it was warped away. Obito also was able to throw a punch to wrap Naruto in Wood Release, which I would say indicates they are fully relative, or that Obito even has a slight edge when Naruto is not expanding.
Obito against Minato with the white mask would be more willing to use Rinnegan abilities since Minato is unaware of how to counter them, which is the reason he did not use them against Naruto or Kakashi. Exempli gratia, Minato might get blasted back with Shinra Tensei if he gets close.
I would just like to put something into perspective, you say Obito was taxed out more than Minato, okay sure, but now think about this, first time mothers enter labor (the proces of birthing a child) for about 12-18 hours, Minato would have had to been A: Awake the whole time, and B: Have had to ACTIVELY maintain the seal on Kushina so the Nine Tails wouldn't escape, now factor in the fact that he had also teleported a full nine tails biju bomb and THEN went to fight Obito on top, in my honest opinion Minato was the one more fatigued and taxed out by far.
@@Draxeid Minato mused Obito could not keep Kurama summoned in real space for more than a few minutes due to the chakra tax, since he was rushing the fight. He also had to summon Kurama all its own. Just to summon Gamabunta the first time, Naruto needed to tap into Kurama's chakra, and Gamabunta is not even as taxing as even half of Kurama, nor does it require chakra to keep summoned afterwards. So yes, I think maintaining that might have been worse than what Minato had to go through.
1 U haven’t proved why mainting a summon would drain the user at all when that simply has never been stated 2 Naruto being the only one capable of surpassing minato and by extension can include sasuke only benifits sasuke and Naruto (especially when they are still teenagers giving them lots of room) what the statment doesn’t include is characters like Itachi OM obito pain ect which works in minato’s favour stop trying to come up with nonsensical interpretations
Doesn’t change anything as viz DID make a change to the manga
@@RA1JIN07 No they did not. All they do is translate, often incorrectly.
Virthue I respect the time you took to film this video but I'm sorry, Wm Obito slams man and even orange Mask Obito wins.
Minato doesn't have the slightest of feats that compares him to kcm 2 naruto and most of your arguments favors Minato. Like you don't mention the fact that Obito at 14 was fighting Minato while controlling the full Nine tails which was draining him and Minato knew that he had to win this fight quick due to that. If we go by your head cannon logic that can explain why he gets beaten by such an attack because he was in a hurry (we're not going to use that of course). Second off, he doesn't have any knowledge about Izanagi and the Rinnegan. At the very leats, he never fought against it before. Kcm Minato is more comparable to Wm Obito, whose destructive power is compared to Edo Madara!!! If we go by your logic, the same alive Minato wins againt Madara edo and Im sorry I dont see that happening this version of Obito was handling Kcm 2 Naruto, 7 gates guy, Kakashi Ms and Bee tailed beast form with ease and the only reason they landed an attack was because of Kakashi's Mangekyo. If you're going to make a video about two characters make sure to use both arguments in an objective manner and not subjective. Using Itachi as a staple to measure Obito's power while he at the time didn't even show the Susanoo and before Obito was introduced is also crazy lol. If we use that same logic of relativeness, then Minato doesn't scale to Wm Obito since he scales to Edo Madara who scales to Hashirama whos the God of shimobi aka the strongest hokage before Naruto came along.That's a crazy reach. Eitherway, dope video as always and keep it up!
My dawg is always cookin 🔥
I don’t see a prime alive minato beating rinnegan obito. Hypothetically speaking, if he summoned the ten tails, gedo statue, or used the 6 paths of pain what is he realistically doing. I feel like rinnegan obito scales ~ KCM2 Naruto. Rinnegan obito could mid-diff prime minato and high diff war arc minato.
Also, saying Minato scales to KCM2 since he parried a bijuudama is untrue. He parried just a few attacks, in a battle of attribution to the death Kurama beats prime Minato. Minato realistically scales to KCM1 (just barely above Pain).
But then again what do I know
Great video
I honestly think OM Obito is way stronger than he was vs Minato.
The guy has had about 16 years to train and get stronger. Going from 14 - 31 as a shinobi should give one a massive boost in physical stats.
At 14 the guy had the full 9 tails under genjutsu and in a contract seal. Minato thought he was Madara and a bigger threat than the 9 tails itself. His feats at this age are simply unrivaled
He showed his youth vs Minato and lost due to arrogance while Minato was coming for blood.
But at 31 he should be way more alert if he were to face Hokage Minato again. I think it could go either way if he doesn't have the ftg seal on him.
Also I think WM Obito is only challenged by KCM Minato
Yeah I will say, this is something I plan to talk about but Obito didn’t train at all and didn’t want to win narratively
@Virhtue please do talk about it. because although open to a change in perspective, I'm of the opinion that he had to at least make an effort to refine his newly acquired skills. By skills I mean the following:
He was taught a bunch of techniques by Madara.
He acquired wood release.
He had a new mangekyo with techniques that needed some getting used to, as seen in the scene when he struggles to hold Rin after rampaging.
Against Minato, he is shown to have grown considerably with regards to kamui, so he at least practiced that technique.
He is also one of the Uchiha who have achieved mastery beyond the Mangekyo, achieving mastery of any technique requires practice.
Also, aside from new techniques he learned, he also grew from a teenage boy to a man in his early 30s. I understand that growing in age does not equate to growth in strength. However, what shinobi stays stagnant in strength from 14 to 31? Especially a shinobi that has a dream of creating an entirely new world.
In a way what Minato would need 1 thing to beat obito and it's the hiraishin. Don't forget that obito still has the mark and the hiraishin level to consist to attack while teleporting so the moment minato teleport obito is dead . not juubito tho
Agreed but we taking the mark off bc that’s too easy
First time I heard hiruzen’s wife was killed by óbito - Gasp
Many people gloss over it
Also, don't forget that even before Minato started fighting Kurama and Obito, he was fatigued because he was keeping Kurama's seal in check during the labor process.
Where was it stated that he was fatigued? I don’t remember him showing any signs of chakra exhaustion, and given the fact that minato himself acknowledged that they were both in a rush due to obito having to control the 9 tails, it was bound to be a quick fight not a drawn out battle where they would have to rely on their stamina to begin with
@@dc5855 It was not stated on screen or on panel, but if you observe the scene, they show that Minato was there the whole time ,while Kushina was giving birth, reinforcing the seal.
@@davidpap5369 he should no exhaustion either way bro plus what do u think would be harder mainting chakra of the 9 tails leaking out of a seal or controlling the entire 9 tails itself? Like I said both were in a rush so it wasn’t a stamina dependent fight it was a fight that was going to based on a single attack.
I do like it when you do it like that i encountered someone who said minato is non mastered kcm1 level now i can show them this vid . Thank you my friend
Ofcourse my friend!
YOU ARE MY FRIEND!!!
This will be over in a “ Flash”.
Ahaa love it
The reality is minato is above most people. His scaling is just under the big 4 madara saske the 1st and naruto.
And while not as likely he does have win states vs all of them if circumstances go his way
Pretty much. To me Minato is just slightly above Tobirama.
@@giannixxway above tobirama. Tobirama is highly overrated. However wm obito is definitely beating Minato, we have to remember he was 14 the first time they fought
You should do a video on Mei vs Kakazu.
That’s an odd matchup
@@Virhtue is that supposed to mean good or bad thing
@@LuiopK Imo Mei low-mid diffs Kakuzu. She is the weakest of the 5 Kage, but Kakuzu himself isn't even Kage level.
She was able to press a (fatigued) MS Sasuke, while Kakuzu was inferior to pre-Hebi Sasuke (prior to absorbing Orochimaru).
The only argument I can see in Kakuzu's favor is his fabled raw durability, as we don't know whether or not Mei's Lava Style (or Acid) would be able to harm him. However, he can't move the body parts he hardens, so he has to make at least part of his body vulnerable in order to attack. And Mei has AoE options.
I think she is above him enough that she would be able to deal with the flying hearts (look at Kakashi's performance, and he was relative to Kakuzu).
If Diamond Morph can tank the Lava and Acid Style techniques, Mei wins more often than not (mid-high diff) but can still lose.
If it can't and either or both elemental releases can counter it, then she wins low-mid diff, depending on how overwhelmed she would be by the hearts and on how easily she could kill them.
@@giannixx Wait cause I thought that all Akatsuki members are like Kage level in the data books.
@@LuiopK I'm going by scaling rather than by databooks. If Hidan is Kage level, than so is Asuma, for example. And Asuma is one of the prime examples of what a Jounin looks like.
I'll expand the chain I gave. Mei is one of the weakest Kage we've seen, and she was able to press 5ks Sasuke. So was the Raikage. Now let's consider that Hebi Sasuke was either relative or weaker than Mei. Hebi Sasuke was physically superior to Deidara, but wasn't as strong as a full power Orochimaru. Beginning of Shippuden Sasuke had to wait until Orochimaru's illness made him weak enough, so it's reasonable to put him below the one who fought 4 tails Naruto.
When Naruto beats Kakuzu with the Rasenshuriken, he still thinks he needs to catch up to Sasuke. Kakuzu is stronger than Hidan.
Also, the term itself is fan-made, it's just a reference. But the labels aren't as relevant as the relation between the characters' abilities. And I'm counting the physical stats here, not the hax. Kakuzu's special abilities are what even make him have a chance to win against stronger opponents, hence why I said that depending on how their jutsu interact, Mei might actually lose.
But if every Kage we've ever seen is leagues above the level of Hidan, how reasonable is to say he is "Kage level"?
My ranking goes:
High Kage: Ohnoki, Tsunade 100 Healings, Raikage V2, peak 5kgs Sasuke, Sage Naruto, War Arc Gaara.
Kage: Old man Hiruzen, Orochimaru, Danzou, Raikage v1, Sage Jiraiya, Mei, Hebi Sasuke, Tsunade base, Raikage base, Jiraiya base.
Low Kage: full power Juugo, Suigetsu, Deidara, Sasori, early Shippuden Sasuke, sick Orochimaru, early Shippuden Gaara, Chiyo.
Peak Jounin: early Shippuden Kakashi, Rasenshuriken Naruto, Kakuzu, Yamato.
Elite Jounin: Part 1 Kakashi, Kabuto, Hidan, Zabuza.
Even if you wanted to high ball Hidan and say he was on Kakashi's level (which doesn't make sense bc Kakashi was fighting Hidan and Kakuzu's hearts comboing together, and also had to protect Ino and Chouji, and wasn't cut once, and Kakashi is supposed to be above Asuma, who was able to tag Hidan, so it has to go Kakashi > Hidan > Asuma), it doesn't change the fact that he is still below the likes of Deidara and pre-Hebi Sasuke. And those would get smoked by the Raikage, for example.
So through scaling and context we can see Mei is supposed to be a tier above the weaker Akatsuki members. Remember that Deidara was getting blitzed by Hebi Sasuke, for example.
Not to mention that the databooks are known to not be completely reliable nor consistent with their statements, and you always have to take them with a grain of salt.
What the hell was that Minato glazing Orange Mask Obito stomps Minato
Facts
Blud couldn't stomp konan and some danzo bodyguards,he's getting shit diffed by minato
@@kinginblack2845 He underestimated Konan and toyed with Danzo's lapdogs 🤦♂️ are we really going to act like Minato never underestimates people or toys with them? Come on now.
Bro is downplaying minato in the big 2024 😭
Yeah u can’t substaite why
Thank you for recognizing naruto only had half the ninetails vs pain.
Most people forget this along with how insane the full nine tails is
One of my arguements is the ninetails must have doubled in total chakra because no one recognizes the ninetails is literally half its former self.
@@alexrobinet7576or maybe just maybe because the full thing never comes out. Literally ever. No one could ever know that.
Plus how would anyone even know how powerful it's meant to be anyway?
@@alexrobinet7576 but there was no one left who could’ve recognized the full thing except for Hirozen, and he died.
@@___________0Z0X during the war everyone is there and no one mentions it the entire time not madara hashirama tobirama.
Not kin or ginkaku none of the kage none of the hokage not orochimaru before or during not jiraiya in training not itachi who was in the village and saved his own mom during the ninetails attack on konoha.
Minato even accurately accessed the gap between pain and obito. Specifically stating naruto needed the ninetails. That was when he thought obito was madara btw.
You have to make a video detailing all the chakra usage nagato used during the pain vs naruto fight.
Even showing up to the leaf village, nagato was using long distance chakra to even move the 6 dead bodies of pain. The leaf ninja pain killed before entering the leaf. The summoning jutsu after pain broke into the leaf village.
Every single jutsu and chakra usage he used while hunting for naruto. How many almighty pushes did pain use on kakashi? How many universal pulls on kakashi, konahamaru, the jutsu used to kill shizune and soul remove her.
Nagato cut his life span down when he used super almighty push, he did all this BEFORE fighting a prepped sage mode healthy naruto. Then nagato had to fight the 4 tails (anime) 6 tails version and had to hold back the 8 tails version of naruto.
Its insane how much chakra nagato has. And nagato had to fight while he couldnt out right kill naruto either. He had to restrain himself.
@@Vergil512 this ... This is an underrated point. Pain fought the entire village and killed damn near all of them
@@johnsonjohnny675 Thank you. Everyone ALWAYS over looks this fact. And not only did he almost kill the whole village, the leaf village is strongest village in the largest nation at the time as well. Andddd..
It was confirmed by ino and shikimarus fathers that nagato was constantly changing his chakra frequencies so sensory type ninja couldn't track his location. Nagato was doing all of that while hunting naruto and while fighting the entire leaf village and anbu members and elite jonin class ninja like kakashi and sage mode naruto and the 9tails and kage level frog summoning all without a break for rest.
Yeah you guys are cooking, this would be an amazing video
@@Musa-M8 Thank you. Sorry it was a bit of a read but I do appreciate that.
The Hiraishin works like that for exemple take a point a and a point b . The moment minato disappear from a is the same moment he reappear to b that what the hiraishin is said to be instantaneous the moment you disappear from a place is the same moment you reappear at another place where a kunai is or a mark is placed . the Hiraishin level two is like that the moment you disappear and reappear is the same moment the attack will land on the enemy it's instantenious my friend.
You then contradict the second databook jutsu file explaining it, the third databook’s dictionary section, the fourth databook’s Mini Jutsu file on the Flying Thunder God Guiding Thunder, Minato blitzing his own in in 630-631, Tobirama stating it has a speed equation, the relocation argument. Brother, you can’t some here without explanation and loads of it with the “it’s said to be instant” which are also hyperbolic seeing as many statements are made like that regarding other things or, the nerve transmission corresponding to the subspace opening is instant.
Is yr argument for Minato based obito being “comparable” to itachi???? Obito stomps itachi what are u on about
Then disprove the novel claims. What are you talking about
another simple way to explain ftg i can think of is like traveling 1 block in the mc nether is 8 blocks in the overworld
Orange mask> every single version of midnato
Stop acting like his powers are kcm1 or two hes fast his ap shit hes not beating the raikage. People never say how he get throw the lightning clock. If the third raikage can tank biju bomb and the 4 is stronger ? Minato has zero ap feat on the ninetails just remember 14 year old obito can tank a rasangon from hokage Minato and a stab.
Prove the Raikage is of a difference to make an unrivaled comparison; now an advantage from the point of part one to two
In the minato one shot he stops a bijuu bomb from the full kurama jinchuriki woth 7 tails manifested with a rasengan stop playing.
@@Ralffy1that nine tails was held down by three high level sealing jutsu. The biju dama wasn’t even fully charged.
@@stephenking2895 Don’t care. still is a very good AP feat. And that was him as a teenager. Naruto thought that the mini tailed beast bomb in kcm 1 would one shot the 3rd raikage & that was KCM1 which minato scales way above.
@@Ralffy1 u should especially if your gonna bring it up. Sure it’s a good feat but to the level you’re gassing it too. Yeah cause he thought that was scared the raikage but it wasn’t. He tanked a full one from the eight tails. He does not scale “way” above that.
I am strongly leaning to Minato being the victor he has an edge with justsu proficiency in FTG, Body Flicker (in my POV it is the thing that gives him edge over other teleporters) and reaction speed specially if SM is activated even just for a minimum of time as every second is crucial. Obito still has 1 MS and him having Rinnegan still not giving him enough perceptive boost and still have same weakness as his younger self which is not fast enough to overwhelm Minato. He just have more means to attack Minato now with his White Mask version, but superior battle IQ and jutsu proficiency is the key, a simple Shadow Clone from Minato can easily turn the tide of the battle and give him openning to exploit again the same weakness of Obito. It is a counter arguement on why is Obito not using wood release while he can do so, same applies to Minato's Shadow Clone and Sage Mode. He can take everything using shadow clone just to test the water. This is a battle of who catches the other off guard first.
If it is their first time battling each other with this version, Obito's arrogance will be his downfall. And if it is the second time around, ofc each of them already prepared some counter to one another and same trick will not work the second time around. But the thing is, it is like a chess game and the one with the most battle IQ will be the winner and who's that? Even Kurama fooled Obito by throwing Kakashi into his Kamui.
Obito might have a chance with DMS enhanced by 6Path's power as this is the only thing that implies to be able to give a boost in his speed. Even Madara able to react to Minato's Sage FTG bec the author decided to have dumb move to make Minato's kunai landed in front of Madara for Sage FTG attack and ofc Madara has superior sensory abilities in the name of 6PSM and Rinnegan + Sharingan and on top of that, it is an easily detectable on the line of sight frontal attack, this is done to showcase and give us a hint with the difference in perceptive level. But take in consideration that this Minato is an Edo version which also means, he still not in his prime, just saying.
The legacy of Minato even is still alive in Boruto generation. FTG still relevant enough in the fights with the Shinjus.
With intro of Otsusukis and Shinjus, massive destructive power is not enough if you cannot even hit your opponent. Even implied FTG is inferior to Claw mark teleportation but was also emphasized that Minato's proficiency even surpasses Boruto's and yet Boruto can still overwhelm the claw mark users. Same applies with the Kamui. Mind you, Boruto entered and exited Ishiki's dimension using only the FTG. So same applies to Kamui. Obito is just arrogant before as the battle of two Space/Time teleporter was never been seen before and is only relying on theories. What is he going to do with Minato even if successfully sucked him into his dimension?, there is no way he can trap him forever.
Nice vid brother could u do improved hokage ranking since u changed ur mind
I think WM Obito would actually benefit it wasn't their first battle. Yes he does have the FTG Mark on him, but he could bully Minato into his daze state where he would clap him up.
Solid work per usual. I think WM Obito if he has the Edo Jinchuriki and Gedo statue would definitely overwhelm Minato plus he's never fought against someone with the Rinnegan so Obito would be utilizing that much more. But in the scenario that it's just WM Obito by himself on the night of the attack Minato has a better chance, probably still go with Obito though. I mean he was relative to Madara at that point. Also if Hanzo vs The Akatsuki isn't your next video we're gonna have some words
Agreed, I think Obito’s arsenal when in the MS is way better and is quite underrated
In my opinion if Minato has the KCM cloak he’s beating every version of Obito up until 10 tails.
Something that should be obvious to everyone
@@Griviannope
That voice crack was crazy at 6:14
Toxic AF
White mask obito stomps that fodder Minato
Why?
@@Virhtuebro because they Itachi glaze machines
@@Virhtue Because the fight technically happened already, it was just interrupted by Madara before it concluded. During Chapter 657 Black Zetsu had taken control of Obito (Right after Rinne Rebirth) and opted to fight both Minato (He was in KCM) and Kakashi. Most of the fight takes place off screen while we focus on Madara subduing the Biju and later fighting Sasuke and Tobirama, however when the we see them next (Chapter 664) "Obito" is standing his ground, there's smoke all around them from the battle, Minato got knocked out of KCM at some point and both he and Kakashi are out of breath. We're not quite sure how hard Black Zetsu/Obito were pushing them, but in Chapter 661 Madara asks how "Obito's" fight is going and White Zetsu replies that it's going favorably. Maybe the duo would have turned things around eventually but from the available evidence it seems Rinnegan Obito is somewhat stronger.
@@RoundOfApplauseChannel Wtf does Itachi have to do with this? He's not even mentioned in this comment 💀
@@Champeonic Itachi glazers are the ones who usually downplay Minato. We see you lil man!!
question tho, if minato tries to FTG to the mark while phasing through the mark he originally teleported to, wouldn’t he trap himself inside the kamui dimension?
The thing is the mark isn't sent to Kamui, Obito sends the body part to Kamui which would technically make that area none touchable.
But if Obito sucked in a kunai with FTG and Minato tries to use the jutsu, I don't believe it would activate as this is a sealed dimension which requires a jutsu Minato doesn't have, Kamui which is the only entry into the realm, why do you think we never see it again or why Kaguya couldn't access it or any of the other Outsutsuki.
@@mrkaboom2 that was my original thought but maybe i was just undermining FTG marks
Wish we could get a disclaimer for if he mentions/uses Sage Mode or Kcm2 in the matchup so it's not a waste of time
Virthue can you make a how strong is Sakura video as she is extremely underrated
I mean I can, we’ll see
EOS Sakura (meaning the last) should be stronger than everyone in shuppiden except 8th gate guy, 10 tails obito, madara, kaguya, etc so the 20th strongest character give or take
@yoboychris4149 nah she is higher
@@yoboychris4149She's Also still Getting Bodied By KCM 2 Minato Via Match Up lol
I don't see Minato beating wm obito with all the bijuu, i don't see him beating any version other than the kid version that he barley beating
Maybe this video will change my mind about midnato
What is this? Someone finally not overrating alive Minato?
“Barely beat” is crazy when Minato literally one-shotted him and figured out how Kamui worked immediately.
I dont see minato beating obito at all wether it’s om or wm
@@brandonreed3670the fight was literally a coin flip, minato says 1 eye obito is more dangerous than kurama…
Nah bro one word hiraishin its just that you don't truly understand how op hiraishin is with hiraishin fuinjutsu sage mode and rasengan minato is truly a kcm level 2 threat
A honest question would tobi be at the same power as every other obito until white mask?
I wouldn’t ever say the same but to be honest, it’s likely very relative
Edo Hokage, individually or together (- Hashirama for obvious reasons) vs the Allied Shinobi Divisions!
"Obito who turned out to be alive, and Madara who was resurrected by Edo Tensei rage against the world with the same overwhelming strength."
Based on this statement Alive Minato gets stomped, KCM2 Minato is another story.
Minato is the strongest in the verse bro. Didn’t you hear? “Only one with the hopes of surpassing him is naruto.” Not madara, not hashirama, not Obito, not kakashi, not sasuke, not Gai.
W minato upscale
@@kevingbergiste7372 I mean there is also the statement that each generation surpasses the one before it and imo Alive Minato is also narratively implied to lose to Alive Hashirama, Alive Madara, Sasuke, and Hokage Kakashi….
@@slimxjimki no way dude. He has FTG and his body flicker is so fast. He literally just blitzes people you’d think are stronger than him with just a kunai and rasengan. He literally combatted a bijou bomb from the full 9 tails with a base rasengan that he invented just earlier that day.
@@kevingbergiste7372Madara and hashirama were dead and they didn’t have an actual clue who obito was on top of that he was the enemy so yes they say minato. That doesn’t place minato above the 3 others listed
My favorite tobirama victim❤
Minsto beat tobirama i think
@@arceus590 🧢
Minato stomps that random jonins victim
@@PrinceAjaxson womp womp
@@PrinceAjaxson Man Tobirama out tagged a KCM2 minato.Minato is a fraud.
Minato didn't outspeed Obito in a normal sense, he did a very simple action using body flicker. Not to mention he could've just appeared slow to trick Minato since he clearly is relative later.
Monitoring an existing seal has nothing to do with creating a whole new seal. It wouldn't even make sense for him to be able to seal the whole 9 tails as he says it's impossible for him to physically do. This only adds consistency hes around hiruzen level sealing since Orochimaru tightens naruto seal just like Minato was prepared to do with kushina.
Also idk why Kcm2 Naruto was mentioned, its a combination of Naruto chakra and Kurama chakra, and hes a perfect jinchuriki. So not only is it NOT just kuramas chakra, but we know verbatim that jinchuriki utilize chakra better.
Like are we gonna say Sage Mode Naruto and Killer Bee are KCM2 Naruto level because they harmed Half Kurama by himself???
The body flicker doesn't scale ro combat speed btw, which is made evident by the fact Tobirama has better perception and combat speed feats than Minato. And he says he is quick at striking while he is in KCM.
Implying that Kakashi thinking KCM2 Naruto was Minato would imply he could redirect 5 bijuu bomb at once. At this point this doesn't even SOUND believable.
Like Minato being hyped up this much would imply Obito as a kid was Kcm2 level, as him and Minato imply it could go either way.
The Obito sections really don't matter, Minato thinks the fight was really close, Obito thought it was too. Minato blatantly has statements comparing him and KCM Naruto in their actual speed feats, probably referring to body flicker. Which seems low but its unironically not slow at all, every time we see someone react to KCM Naruto its someone you can imply is physically on par with Minatos speed or faster, while when he goes KCM2 he's outspeeding sage blind Madara at the time, Obito can't physically react despite reacting to Minato and needs Kamui, he's able to blitz the bijuu who all can keep up with Sage blind madara somewhat. Like theres legit no way to scale Minato to those levels without dishonest arguments about Kurama being stronger YEARS ago, when the war kurama avatar was with Naruto as a perfect jinchuriki and Narutos own chakra being used in the kcm transformations as well. Which is further supported by the fact that when he gives other people chakra it has his AND kuramas chakra, and when the other shinobi are literally inside of the kurama avatar they get the yellow cloak which has significantly more of Narutos own chakra mixes.
Prove your first claim and account and hence counter my argument of the same applying to Minato. Also Minato didn’t think the fight was close he though it was threatening and knew he would win; he simply notes skepticism about Kamui’s nature
@@Virhtue Wdym? Prove that flicking in a straight line isn't comparable to combat speed? Like it's not something needing to be proven, it doesn't enhance how fast your arms or eyes are. Obito literally reacts to him in the fight twice. And your only counter argument for him grabbing Minatos hand was the idea Minato slowed down, when how attacking works is you want to break THROUGH the object, meaning you want to carry the force as if you're trying to get your hand through the either side of the target. This is basic fighting mechanics. Not to mention with those same fighting mechanics it's basic to also pull back your hand after you go through a target, so Obito grabbing him was simply faster than him pulling his hand back.
@@kakuzugoated873 didn't Minato ftg a 10 tails bomb?
It's perfectly plausible that he could do any feat Naruto could do.
The narrative the Minato vs Obito was close to isn't true. Obito has a very hax ability. Minato acknowledging Obito s danger level isn't the same as the fight being close. Obito did everything right and still lost.
The question I have for you is where do you place Minato? He's definitely stronger than sage mode right? He's at least kcm1 level right?
The consensus is that Obito is stronger than pain. That same nageto would have killed kcm1 Naruto and killer bee. That same nageto who's weaker than Obito lost to Minato.
Minato at worst has to be kcm1 but most likely above kcm1.5 and around kcm2 otherwise the story doesn't make sense.
@@johnsonjohnny675 I'm saying because it's 5 bijuu bombs at once, he shouldn't be able to open 5 portals simultaneously. And he only mentions Minato in comparison to kcm2 Naruto when looking at his cloak which looks similar to Minatos.
Its not plausible, there's like no implication of that.
They literally say the fight can go either way, idk how that's not close. We even learn that Obito would've won had he went all out before Minato figured out Kamui. Which he did by tagging Minato btw
Obviously he's stronger than Kcm Naruto, he has similar speed and better AP with rasengan with sealing.
Minato only compares pain and Obito, not uncrippled Nagato without splitting his chakra to puppets and having a portion of bijuu chakra amping him.
Or, Minato is simply kcm Naruto level in combat speed, has teleportation, better AP, and seals. While Kid Obito is relative in combat speed, and has a better space time Ninjutsu, however it's perfectly countered by ftg. Adult Obito is stronger, has a rinnegan, and has better combat speed than Minato now. He was inches from beating Minato, he's faster now and would simply beat him this time around, not to mention Obito would tank Minatos rasengan.
@@kakuzugoated873 a fight can be Obito could have one the fight because he had everything in his favor. Surprise, the perfect night, minato being weaker etc
You also fail to mention that minato did in fact blitz Obito when he first encountered him in the bedroom.
Minato also held back in that fight. They both were gathering information vs one another.
If your argument is Obito has a win a state in a second fight then I'd agree. He does have a win state.
But Minato would also have more information.
The fight was a test of skill and Obito had prior knowledge of ftg and could plan for it and still lost.
That Obito simply isn't strong enough.
Obito doesn't have a counter for ftg.
Also nageto = pain. Pain clamped the entire village and still beat sage mode Naruto with Intel. Minato seen that and still thought the real threat was Obito hence the scaling.
Obito > pain=Itachi that's the narrative implication.
If Obito is at or above kcm2 then So is Minato.
Lastly even if Minato was awful at sage mode ( he isn't) that 30 seconds - 3 mins of amped speed, strength and perception is more than enough to boost him well over kcm2.
Minato casually using wormholes
W for me 🐐
That’s what matters
The Flying Raijin marking wouldn’t make a difference against older Obito.
Literally blitz Rennigan obito
@@RoundOfApplauseChannel Context
@@EternalWanderer657 you just said it doesn't make a difference. Literally just proved to you that it does!!
@RoundOfApplauseChannel In a versus battle where both combatants start off fresh, yeah, it doesn't, but you're trying to say Minato blized Rinnegan Obito without considering the full context of that sequence. Let's not act like there weren't various factors in play against Obito in that specific moment in time because there was.
@@EternalWanderer657 bruh yuh rin boy is getting one tapped by MinaGOAT!! NO diff!! Only sage obito can beat Minato
They had to take minatos arms in the war. Think about that chums.
he got his arms taken because he just failed 😂
Bro glazing minato to much 😅
How does nagato look without the rinnegan and with just regular madara eyes😂😂😂
Somebody has to of photoshopped this before😭
@@Virhtue make it the thumbnail for your next vid🤣👍🏼
Makes sense to me
I think ppl still overestimate this guy….
Not really
Yeah, Obito is pretty trash.
The only wrong interpretation here is youres 😂🤣😅 you are just doing naruto math based on fanbooks 🤣😂😅 ftg is an instant transportation this has nothing to Do with speed
Yeah I just don't see Minato beating WM Obito. The only reason 14 year old Obito lost, is because he underestimated him. That same strategy will 100% not work again. And the strategy was only to make Obito think he can touch him, so he undid Kamui. Although Obito lost his old chains, he does in fact use the rinnegan chains, something he can also blizt Minato with. He also likes to fight with rods. Which getting hit with a few will slow Minato down.
To be honest, I'll give Obito 7-10. Cause Obito can just pressure Minato from long range to force him to spam FTG, which eventually however long, will make him run low on chakra. Knowing Obito who is an Uchiha and has Hashirama cells plus six paths chakra due to having the rinnegan would outlast Minato in chakra. Fighting close range would not favor Minato since Obito has no problem reacting to his combat speed, which would make better use of Kamui and Obito knowing what Minato would do if he throws a Kunai at him. And my personal opinion, WM Obito is slightly faster than Minato in combat speed. If he had no problem reacting to his combat speed at 14, with an extra 15 years of experience and buffs. He would definitely not stay the same lvl of speed. So close range and long range is a disadvantage for Minato. And what plan can we give to Minato that Obito already knows about if they fought again? I say Obito got this one, but a good fight
really good assessment but i just wanna note that minato was likely matching 14 year old obito's speed since like you said he wanted obito to think he could touch him and deactivate kamui, so that probably wasn't his max combat speed. i agree with everything you said tho
@@chocomint8261 That could be the case, but then again I doubt Minato would play around with a guy that put the whole Leaf in danger instantly and tried to kill his firstborn son. Me personally all the times Minato got blizt, he wasn't playing around. To give him the matching speed of WM Obito out of nowhere is kinda insane
Unrivaled strength? Itachi was a kid when Minato was alive...
Yellow Flash: "An absolutely unavoidable blade (that moves) at the speed of light.."
Tsukuyomi: "Even a body made of iron or the speed of light are powerless before this jutsu."
Obito was willing to fight Minato but not Itachi.
Sasuke throws all his strength at him, but he is cornered by Itachi's power and determination, which surpasses all others (2nd fanbook p102)
Danzo to Itachi: I have a question for the most talented genius ever to grace the halls of the academy.
"The guy's frankly overpowered" - Killer B, who's seen Minato.
Zetsu called Itachi invincible even after seeing all of shinobi history.
I could go on.
Itachi's hype and portrayal is unparalleled.
Yeah but Obito has a mangekyou sharingan and break out of the jutsu like Sasuke did. Itachi quite literally has nothing but planning against Obito but even then he doesn't know Obito's full abilities which gives Obito a massive advantage.
Also, why would Obito fight Itachi? He knows that he was going to die any way and Itachi was a useful tool, bringing funds and resources to the Akatsuki.
@@mrkaboom2 Right, going after Itachi would be too risky. Obito avoided Itachi even before he knew about the Yata Mirror.
@@marwyn8152 the Yata mirror wouldn't work on Obito and also Itachi was going to die, there was no reason to waste the effort.
@@mrkaboom2 The databook specifically mentions Kamui doesn't work on it.
@@marwyn8152 when does it mention Kamui isn't going to work on it?
The Third Databook made it clear that the Yata mirror has no set properties and can alter itself be it physical or spiritual and can use all nature transformation.
Kamui is neither physical or spiritual because it works by moving the body parts of Obito meaning the area that the area that is supposed to be touching the Yata mirror is in the Kamui dimension and that is how Obito walks through walls. It can't nullify any attack or jutsu as there is no attack or jutsu to nullify as there is nothing touching it.
You're making things up, Kamui is one of the clear counters of the Yata mirror.
Do dms obito
DMs Obito slaughters Minato
Obito slams.
Why?
@Virhtue ngl I wouldn't say Obito slams but I think he beats Alive Minato low diff, kcm Minato Obito wins mid-high diff
@@enenra6417 nah, Minato slams them all exept for White Mask.
Minato is weaker than Kcm2 Naruto. Manga canon
He outsped even bsm naruto who's stronger than kcm2
First where are u getting that obito is 17 and not 14?
Why would a 14 year old not be stronger as an adult 16 years later? Look at ANY 14 year old in Naruto and compare them to when they are an adult and u see a MASSIVE difference yet we have to act like it’s an actual argument that obito got stronger???
3. When minato beat obito he acknowledged the fight would be by a split second diffence then proceeded to OUTSMART obito, he didn’t blitz obito if that’s the case the fight wouldn’t have been by a split second he would just blitz obito at any point during that fight, he wasn’t flat out stronger or faster he simply outsmarted obito got him to lower his guard then landed his attack.
With that last point being said why would a FASTER, stronger, smarter more durable, obito who would no longer lose his arm to rasnegan, lose to the same minato when he can no longer be put down with a single rasnegan yet still needs a touch to win.
I mean seriously 14 year old obito lost by a SPLIT SECOND what is there to argue about??? Om obito would win this. I don’t understand why this fandom is so disingenuous
DMS Obito vs KCM Minato both alive
Obito wins
Minato claps every version of obito pre wm and wm is a cross up but obito has slightly higher echelons by White mask imo
Agreed
Mid vs my goat
Swap it
1 like
Sad times
In my opinion Dms obito and kcm minato >boruto
Ur opinion doesn't matter over facts when ur completely wrong
Both slams tobirama
Minato one taps obito
Stop that meat ridin
Minato is just that guy.video
Minato putting Obito in a body bag
Again!
@@Virhtue yep 💀