Excellent analysis! It made me think of something: Saruman declares he is "of Many Colors" and has an iridescent cloak that *looks* white but isn't. As Gandalf points out, when you break white light into many colors, it is no longer white. And when you mix all the colors together, eventually you get black. If I'm remembering my auxiliary canon correctly, Melkor has no specialization, instead sharing in the talents of all the other Valar. If you were to assign colors to the Valar, then, an uncorrupted Melkor would be white -- the union of all of them. Morgoth would be black, the absence of color, and therefore of any legitimate authority over the elements. By arrogantly claiming mastery over too many things, Saruman actually revokes his own authority to lead, just like Morgoth.
Something I thought of while watching: the term 'grey eminence,' referring to a powerful advisor to a ruler who operates behind the scenes through his counsel. Seems to fit Gandalf quite well.
As I joined Forodrim (the Tolkien Society of Stockholm) in 1978, I were as all members required to take a Middle Earth name and persona, and as I always wanted to impersonate a wizard, I theorized that the wizards represented the five elements: Gandalf for fire was ashen grey, Radagast for earth was brown (for reasons you yourself stated), Saruman for being the quintessence of all the wizards in Middle Earth was white, then at least one of the two remaining wizards would be blue. It turned out that they were both blue - blue as the sky and the sea, representing air and water. I choose blue as colour. The name I took from the same source as JRRT took Gandalf. It is a choice I’ve never regretted.
Tolkien said that both Blue Wizards had robes that were sea-blue. I don't get any sense that one Wizard has sky-blue robes, though it does sound like a cool idea.
Grey is the color of loss and depression. I believe his job was to travel to all of the places facing a crisis to restart hope. Denethor notes he always shows up at the darkest times. I also thik that is why Cirdan gave Gandalf the ring, an extra boost in instilling hope.
So in your band metaphor Gandalf is the bass player. In the background, often disregarded, sometimes the butt of jokes, but at the end of the day the real foundation of the band.
Tolkien's way of putting the reader in a specific mindset has much to do with colors. Seeing how black represents the enemy/evil that must be vanquished. Colors have a way of giving us info we don't necessarily read or get told; more of association with certain things. Wondering around seems grey to me. Lol... great video, again!
Grey is neither black nor white but vaguely in the middle, which is Gandalf's mission, the in betweens, the vague, the stuff that is not directly Ishtari against Sauron, but of men and dwarves and legends and maybes. He becomes the white only when Saruman falls, but also as a result of DIRECTLY BATTLING THE DARKNESS.
If memory serves, Aiwendil (Radagast) was a Maia of Yavanna, therefore it is possible that his colour, being that of 'earth', indicated that his mission was indeed to care for the birds and animals, which calls his 'failure' into doubt.
The big question with Radagast is whether (and to what extent) he "went native" - abandoning his charge from the Valar in order to focus on the beasts (even at the expense of people). There is no doubt that he was one of many that played a small, but crucial, role in defeating Sauron - because Saruman discounted him as a potential threat, and took no measures to neutralise him, he did as Gandalf requested, leading to Gandalf's escape from Orthanc. On the other hand, aside from that, and whatever part he may have played in the battles for the North, he did nothing we know of to aid the cause.
I don't have theories on other wizards but I have one on Saruman. He was Saruman the White, but when he fell he became Saruman of Many Colours. White in color theory and physics and made up from all other colors (except black). So when you separate white color you get other colors. So by becoming Saruman of Many Colours he is actually a shattered person (because white became shattered and splintered), he is only bits and pieces of his old self and he cannot put that together back to be white again. That's why Gandalf when he becames white is stronger than Saruman, Gandalf is whole, while Saruman is shattered.
Gandalf is Grey because of the character association of grey hair with old age, and also because of the colour of ash since his specialty was fire. Saruman is White because he was supposed to represent the opposite of Sauron's colour of black. Radagast is brown because he cares for the earth, i.e. the flora and fauna of Middle-Earth, in essence a stand-in for St. Francis of Assisi. As to blue, you could do no better than to look up the ancient associations of colour with certain kinds of magic. Blue symbolises harmony, healing, creativity, focus, and patience - all of which Sauron would no doubt be attempting to disrupt among Men in the East.
I think the power of mercy/compassion is under rated. Wasn't grey the color of Nienna's clothing. Also, under the radar, the power of inspiration and helping the "weak" develop agency which may have been the domain of Irmo and perhaps Varda, which also seemed to fit what Gandalf did. (I'm kind of relieved Gandalf didn't study much with Namo, even if Namo might have played a role in sending him back to Middle Earth.) Of course white might be also associated with Varda. I Like the idea of a follower of compassion and inspiration who strives to see underlying truth (kind of like a compassionate advocate).. Nienna, Irmo and Varda. Now... where to fit Manwe?
Manwë is pretty much both the Jupiter and Archangel Michael of Arda. He fits pretty much everywhere, as ultimately he was the one who sent the Istari in the first place. And also, where Varda is, Manwë is also. But I would say that Gandalf seems to have a pretty good connection with the Great Eagles, which are servants of Manwë.
Grey is also the colour of smoke...and smoke is what people who operate in secrecy and use stealth like Gandalf does until he comes back as the new White cloak themselves in. Gandalf's original role until Saruman's Great Betrayal is exactly that - to operate in the background, kindle hearts and stir resistance without attracting too much attention on himself. Hence why he is 'grey' and unassuming (to say the least) in appearance - it's an attempt to blend in with the background and avoid unwanted checks from the enemy's spies
Nice video, some interesting ideas for sure. Has anyone ever made the connection to monastic orders? White for the Dominicans (scholarly, founded to combat heresy), brown for the Franciscans (wandering, charitable, associated with beasts via St. Francis of Asisi), Grey for the Augustinians (wandering, committed to orthodoxy, committed to poverty). Would make sense given Tolkien's Catholicism, although I don't know of any blue monks in Christianity. Overall I feel like the idea of the order of wizards was never properly fleshed out even in Tolkien's mind, but I don't know all that much
I did but I thought the white referred to Cistercians, Grey to the Fransciscans and Brown possibly to the Benedictines. White as the highest colour of course sounds a bit like the Pope's attire since the 16th century.
@@str.77 Cistercians maybe, although Dominicans are more associated with academia. Also Franciscans wear brown and Benedictines wear black. You could argue that Saruman has a quasi-papal role within the white council and so on, although I'm not sure the image of a Pope wearing plain white robes would have been quite so prevalent at the time Tolkien was writing, pre-Vatican 2 Papal attire was much more regal
@@Alfonzridesagain Franciscans ate also called Greyfriars in English, while the Dominican were called Blackfriars. Whitefriars were the Carmelites. The Pope wearing white has been the case since the 16th century, though the common reasoning - Pius V was elected and didn't want to change his Dominican (white) habit - is probably a legend.
17:00 Both the grey and the wandering go fairly well with earliest dawn ... before sunrise. It wanders across the globe, it is grey rather than white, and it gives hope. Obviously, Doctor Cornelius is a very different character, so is Merlin in That Hideous Strength, but recall Dr. Cornelius telling Caspian to blow the dawn at precisely daybreak?
Cool video :-) I think grey fits Gandalf also regarding his personality, for it is the most humble and inconspicuous colour, fitting for someone who actually hides a great power. Gandalf surely preferred that none of his mortal friends ever witnessed when he had to unveil his full might, and he does not boast about it later 😏
I always thought the reason why Gandalf is "Grey" is because back when he lived in Valinor as Olórin he had some fair association with Nienna, and gained the association to grey from being her pupil.
Great listening as always. FWIW in UT the Blue Wizards' colour is specified as "sea-blue". Let me share my Saruman theory: he originated in Hudibras Part 2, Canto 3, lines 105-6: Quoth Ralph, not far from hence doth dwell / A cunning man, hight Sidrophel. "Cunning man" was a name for a magician; of course it's the meaning of "Saruman". Sidrophel has a telescope; at one point Hudibras berates him with the fate of Anaxagoras, banished "for speaking impiously about the pure white light of the Sun" (editor's note). So Gandalf takes Saruman's place as representative of the Sun, following Plato's Analogy of the Sun (it lights up the world as Goodness lights up the mind).
My headcanon is that Radagast was trying to find the Entwives after meeting Treebeard (hence why he was near Isengard), so he went north to investigate the rumours of walking trees near the Shire.
Regarding the Blue Wizards, you could probably make the case that both of the statements Tolkien made are true. For instance, they may very well have succeeded - but, in order to do so they may have had to go beyond their mandates or the rules laid upon them. One might speculate that a character (one of the Blue Wizards) whose name means Darkness Slayer (Morinehtar) may have engaged Saurons allies in a more direct sense than was intended by his peers. Correspondingly, one might hypothesise that the other Blue Wizard, whose name means East Helper (Rómestámo), may have had to start a 'countercult' in order to draw Sauron's prospective acolytes away from joining the armies that joined Mordor. Just imagine the epic story that could've been!
According to J.R.R. Tolkien, the Blue Wizards have "sea-blue" robes, which would not look dark blue. They almost certainly mean "travel". The Blue Wizards had travelled far into the East.
I always thought of them being blue as a symbol of their origin in Valinor, beyond Belegaer. Like a message from the Valar to the East: "no, we didn't forget about you, those two are our messengers and envoys". Their second set of names also provides useful insights on their jobs: one is Morinehtar (Darkness-killer) and the other is Rómestámo (East-helper). In some way, they almost work as another Gandalf/Saruman pair, but in a Sauron-dominated context. One is here to cleanse his lies and hold over the region whereas the role of the other is to give hope to the Easterlings, make it known to them that they are not alone and inflame their hearts against Sauron. It's interesting to note that this would logically make them operate in the reverse order as Saruman and Gandalf: whereas in the West, it's: 1) stir up tired and maybe sometimes hopeless hearts, but ones that are still fundamentally on the good side; 2) coordinate the main fight against the Enemy; in the East we have: 1) purify the heart and minds of the peoples; 2) rebuild something on untainted foundations, and maybe don't attack Sauron directly, but undermine his base of power by showing to the peoples there's another way. And otherwise, another thing you could add about Gandalf's grey is that it's simply a more unremarkable, less grand colour, and as such it also fits his role as a background fighter, not one leading from the front in plain daylight, but one closer to the simple people, more understanding of their concerns and better placed to give them courage.
@@TolkienLorePodcast Because the East is less knowledgeable about Valinor and had less contact with it, and that the role of the Ithryn Luin is thus somewhat equivalent to ambassadors or emissaries, moreso than the Western Wizards. So I think it would make sense for them bear some kind of ""flag"" or emblem. Note that simply wearing blue isn't really shouting loud "We were sent here by the Valar, we are ennemies to Sauron!" everywhere either, but it could be a symbol for those which have already been introduced to them.
As you were talking I was thinking about Gandalf. My idea was that he had no role in particular, which grey seems appropriate for. When they were initially sent, Gandalf was pretty much chosen as the extra guy and was reluctant to go. He was a bit of an undirected catalyst and a bit of a utility player able to fill in where needed.
Thanks for sharing. I believe the two blues represent the sea and sky. Whereas Gandalf represents the gray of ideas. He sometimes does things that would be considered mischievous or bad in order for good things to come from them. As the 'gray,' he is a mix of both light and dark. Gandalf is balanced.
Gandalf, although a Maia of Manwë and Varda, was very close to Nienna, the Lady of Mourning, from whom he learned compassion, pity and hope. She was known to wear a grey hood. It makes sense that the compassionate Gandalf, whose chief mission was to ignite the light of hope in the hearts of the Free Peoples, would choose to wear grey. As for Saruman, it is important to remember that the Order of Istari is not the same thing as the White Council. Yes, Saruman was made the leader of the White Council much later, but he was already the leader of the Wizards when he departed from Valinor, and recognized as such when he landed in Middle-Earth. And it's probably because of his position that he was elected leader of the White Council. Contrary to the others, the white colour of his robes was a sign of command. It is logical that the catholic Tolkien would give him the pontifical white. I doubt Tolkien really assigned roles to the colours of the wizards, except for Saruman. Gandalf was created in The Hobbit when Tolkien had no idea of the One Ring and its link to Sauron, and even less of an order of wizards sent to destroy him. I don't even remember Gandalf being called "the Grey" in The Hobbit. It was just Gandalf. Yes, he wore grey robes, but also a silver scarf and a blue hat. If Tolkien wanted to assign colours to the different roles, there would have been more obvious choices. This video says that the Blue Wizards chose that colour to appear darker, almost as agents of the enemy. Well, grey, especially dark grey, would have been the logical choice for that. Radagast, who was sent to Yavanna to protect nature, should have worn green clothes. As for Gandalf, brown could have been just as logical as grey as the colour of a wandering wizard. There is something sacerdotal with the Wizards. They speak for the Valars. Gandalf crowns Aragorn as King of Gondor and Arnor, like a bishop would have done in our western monarchies, or how the Pope crowned Charlemagne Emperor of the Romans. In the catholic faith, priests, monks and friars usually wear neutral colours: white, grey, brown, black. Black was out of the question, so the three wizards we see in LotR are clad in white, grey and brown.
1. White - Sent to directly oppose Sauron the Black 2. Blue - Sent to undermine Sauron the Black underneath his nose 3. Brown - Sent to protect and unite the forces of nature against Sauron the Black 4. Grey - Sent to explore the lands of Middle Earth and acquire information on all peoples of Middle-Earth be they under the White free lands of the West or the enslaved Black lands of Sauron.
My theory: White = Clean, doesnt get hands dirty, academic wizard of the light much like a politician Grey = Wizard of experience and balanced knowledge, wisest of all wizards getting hands dirty for the path of light Black = obvious Brown = Wizard of the earth, wise only on earthly matters, neither good nor evil, only a carer of nature Blue = Wizards from the water. I imagine they arrived to east lands from the sea and talk of lands and beasts over and within the great oceans. They have specific powers pertaining to the memory of all life as it is said that water is special as it holds the music (memory) of the past and present. I feel there is two because one may be lighter of heart then the other. One wizard is assisting sauron where the other may be impeding saurons plans. I think they have strong ties to the Ainur Ulmo
My assumption is that Gandalf's colour represents his sphere, so to speak. Where Saruman is the expert on the Enemy (how to oppose, or how to become, depending on when you're talking about), and Radagast's domain of expertise is plants and animals and things of nature and the soil, Gandalf's special concern is with Men, in particular, and others of the Free People - those who are neither of the Shadow, nor of the Light, and whose choices ultimately determine the world's fate - the grey of neutrality and choice. Even before being retasked as Gandalf the White, his actions of all the wizards did most to contribute to Sauron's defeat - not least in supporting Thorin's quest to reclaim the Lonely Mountain, thereby reinforcing the Northern flank and preventing Sauron from taking Rivendell or Mirkwood in the first assault - all through encouraging, guiding and counselling people.
the colours can mean many things. some thoughts. Saruman the white: may be seen as symbolic; Saruman has an association with knowledge and he spends many of his first years in ME learning; so white is like a white canvas, ready to be filled with what one chooses; saruman ended up filling it with the knowledge of the enemies ways; i would also guess that chosing white to dress is a nod to Saruman growing hubrys as he saw himself as opposing Sauron´s black; similarly white represents light and he was and considered himself an emissary of the Valar. When he becomes the multi-coloured: it may mean a loss of purity, a loss of the original purpose he was sent to ME with; in his mind he saw being many colous and being better, but having more does not always mean being better. Gandalf the grey: his names are all simple names, given to him by people who looked upon him; grey comes not only from his clothes but more from his hair and overall looks: i think that more than Saruman and radagast, gandalf used is fleshy desguise as an old man, grey hair and curved from age. in other words, we the readers can find symbolism in the colours but in the story there is no greater meaning to them.
I like this idea and I think you basically have them right. Although, I think given the prominence of Gandalf, who is in fact in many ways the most active in opposition, to treat him as the backup or the understudy - the "shadow" of white is wrong. White, observe is literally a polar opposite of black in the story. He stays in his tower and does battle through items of power and through minions sent on missions. Gandalf, in contrast, goes out and offers counsel. WISE counsel to all the peoples of the West. He is a "grey eminence" - he is WISDOM (where Saruman is more intellectual and knoweldge - he studies the enemy and his strategems, but is ultimately corrupted in that Nietzschean sense, of becoming that which one hates). Gandalf is the most active of all of them - and the most successful, though apparently the blue wizards counterintellence efforts matter. but it is Gandalf who is the wise and as the dispenser of heavenly wizdom from Valinor, his role is as you say, worldly and therefore not pure but rather in the wrold with all of its complexity.
In my headcanon, I split the difference on the blue wizards - one of them stayed true and stirred up resistance among the Men and Dwarves of the East (and maybe the Avari, too, who were probably more 'we're staying out of this' than pro-Sauron), while the other fell and established some kind of cult like Tolkien originally envisioned.
Grey is often associated with wisdom, i.e. the Greek goddess of wisdom being "Grey-eyed Athena." Gandalf the Grey was meant to fight Sauron by collecting knowledge.
@@TolkienLorePodcast I found the video I was thinking of. He just mentions Ravens in Norse poetry in general, not specifically Odin's Ravens. ruclips.net/video/fIuqaKLTjsQ/видео.html It's a good RUclips channel if you're interested in Norse mythology. He occasionally mentions Tolkien and some of the themes and details that he borrowed.
I think it should be mentioned that Saruman cloaks himself in a robe that can show many colours. The idea of colours does have some large meaning (at least to the wizards).
Before starting to watch the video: I would say yes! Why? Because he is the purest of heart (white), but he is not ignorant of the evil and he served under Nienna who taught him pity for the hurt and the dead (black is after all the funeral colour). Let's see....even just the title is already so interesting 🙂 Edit: of course grey also disappears best amongst people and during most times of the day! Which is why Gandalf is always in the background except for Elronds feast in Rivendell.
Perhaps there any significance with there be having 5 wizards too? A christian youtuber (very against lotr/fantasy) mentioned how this is tied to occult symbolism. And that tolkien isnt actually a real christian
@@brethilnen just finished it, and wow was it absolutely awful. It's blatantly obvious he hasn't read anything Tolkien and outside of "evil things are evil" he was 100% wrong. The only thing that gave me any thought was the number of wizards.
Hello there. This comment is not relative to this video in particular, it is a general question. I used to think that the Ring Verse could not have been composed LATER than the couplet inscribed on the Ring itself, because in that sentence there is a reference to the other rings (rule "them" all) and I thought that it would have been grammatically incorrect to make it if they were not introduced first, as it is the case with the whole Verse. I thought this was an inconsistency on Tolkien's part. On the other hand, since the word "ring" is used, this might be a self-referential argument, and I tried to find another sentence working like that. And one immediately stroke my mind: "A war to end them all". So, I don't think there's any inconsistency anymore, but incidentally I've come to think that that motto in particular might have had a special resonance for Tolkien and maybe inspired him the Verse. What do you think? Is it possible, in your opinion, that Tolkien actually started writing (articulating) the Verse from the couplet, from "One ring to rule them all", inspired by the formulation of "A war to end them all"?
FWIW it was HG Wells who introduced the phrase "the war that will end war" in a 1914 book of that title. It was written for an American audience, it was published in the USA by Dutton, in fact I never heard of it till I researched this comment. Tolkien doubtless knew the phrase in some form. Another WW1 saying is "they shall not pass" (ils ne passeront pas) said by Petain at Verdun ... rather like Gandalf on the bridge. As to the Ring-verse, it would be typical of Tolkien to expand it from the main two lines ... I'd guess that's what the Elvish loremasters did too
@@pwmiles56 I'm more interested in the form with the pronoun, "war to end THEM all", which by the way is what people were actually saying most of the times. I also doubt that HG Wells was the first to come up with the phrase; I rather suspect the expression to be older, probably of freemason origin (and probably dating back to the days of Napoleon).
@@TolkienLorePodcast I'm not a native English speaker, so please help me here. Do you have many idiomatic expressions following the form "an X to Y them all", where "them" refers to the set of all Xs, or is that a somewhat rare, peculiar case?
I’m mainly familiar with expression “war to end all wars” which referred to World War I. I’m not sure I know of any other examples, though in the back of my mind I feel like I’ve heard similar expressions.
I don't think there is a real, deliberate meaning in the blue wizards. In other Tokien's letters they are described without mentioning any colour at all. Surely Tolkien had some ideas but they were never written down as such. I like the meaning of white vs black being Saruman the mirror image of the Dark Lord - and failing spectacularly when trying to become more than that.
Somewhat related, does this mean wizards never wear any other color clothes? Artists always depict them as wearing their color, but did Tolkien ever actually describe their clothes, or does everybody just assume they wear their color? I believe Gandalf was wearing grey robes the day he introduced himself to Bilbo, but that is all. Do we know that he wasn't wearing a green robe the next time they met, or does he only have one set of clothes, and we make all of our assumptions based off one very brief description?
He wears nice clothes at the feast in Rivendell before the Council of Elrond, or at least that’s how I’ve always interpreted the phrase that he was revealed as a lord of dignity and power, but his clothing isn’t actually described.
I know in the beginning of Fellowship, when he has the crates marked with his rune before Bilbo’s party, he is described as wearing a blue hat, silver scarf, and grey cloak, with a white beard - I know this doesn’t answer your question, but the blue hat is one of my favorite little bits of info, not hidden at all, but is sometimes missed.
Gandalf mentions the two blue wizards in the Hobbit, as they travel east by pony, & says he has quite forgotten their names. So Tolkien had the five in mind from the very start. As to colour coded jobs, Mithrandir is his name for both Elves & Edain, the translation of which is grey pilgrim.
Excellent analysis! It made me think of something:
Saruman declares he is "of Many Colors" and has an iridescent cloak that *looks* white but isn't. As Gandalf points out, when you break white light into many colors, it is no longer white. And when you mix all the colors together, eventually you get black.
If I'm remembering my auxiliary canon correctly, Melkor has no specialization, instead sharing in the talents of all the other Valar. If you were to assign colors to the Valar, then, an uncorrupted Melkor would be white -- the union of all of them.
Morgoth would be black, the absence of color, and therefore of any legitimate authority over the elements.
By arrogantly claiming mastery over too many things, Saruman actually revokes his own authority to lead, just like Morgoth.
Something I thought of while watching: the term 'grey eminence,' referring to a powerful advisor to a ruler who operates behind the scenes through his counsel. Seems to fit Gandalf quite well.
As I joined Forodrim (the Tolkien Society of Stockholm) in 1978, I were as all members required to take a Middle Earth name and persona, and as I always wanted to impersonate a wizard, I theorized that the wizards represented the five elements: Gandalf for fire was ashen grey, Radagast for earth was brown (for reasons you yourself stated), Saruman for being the quintessence of all the wizards in Middle Earth was white, then at least one of the two remaining wizards would be blue. It turned out that they were both blue - blue as the sky and the sea, representing air and water.
I choose blue as colour. The name I took from the same source as JRRT took Gandalf. It is a choice I’ve never regretted.
Tolkien said that both Blue Wizards had robes that were sea-blue. I don't get any sense that one Wizard has sky-blue robes, though it does sound like a cool idea.
Wait, where did Tolkien get Gandalf's name?
The Voluspa, if memory serves.
great video. I also feel like gandalfs grey also pays respects to Nienna.
That's precisely what I was going to bring up.
Grey is the color of loss and depression. I believe his job was to travel to all of the places facing a crisis to restart hope. Denethor notes he always shows up at the darkest times. I also thik that is why Cirdan gave Gandalf the ring, an extra boost in instilling hope.
Very good video. You're one of the best youtubers I've seen when it comes to LOTR.
So in your band metaphor Gandalf is the bass player. In the background, often disregarded, sometimes the butt of jokes, but at the end of the day the real foundation of the band.
Tolkien's way of putting the reader in a specific mindset has much to do with colors. Seeing how black represents the enemy/evil that must be vanquished. Colors have a way of giving us info we don't necessarily read or get told; more of association with certain things. Wondering around seems grey to me. Lol... great video, again!
9 rings for men, 7 rings for the Dwarves, 5 Staffs for the wizards, 3 rings for the elves, and the one ring.
Isn’t great that Tolkien’s work is so deep (and yet incomplete) that we can spend time thinking about this sort of stuff?!
Grey is neither black nor white but vaguely in the middle, which is Gandalf's mission, the in betweens, the vague, the stuff that is not directly Ishtari against Sauron, but of men and dwarves and legends and maybes. He becomes the white only when Saruman falls, but also as a result of DIRECTLY BATTLING THE DARKNESS.
If memory serves, Aiwendil (Radagast) was a Maia of Yavanna, therefore it is possible that his colour, being that of 'earth', indicated that his mission was indeed to care for the birds and animals, which calls his 'failure' into doubt.
Remember Sauron has servants amongst the beasts too. Perhaps Radaghast prevented mord of them from going over.
The big question with Radagast is whether (and to what extent) he "went native" - abandoning his charge from the Valar in order to focus on the beasts (even at the expense of people).
There is no doubt that he was one of many that played a small, but crucial, role in defeating Sauron - because Saruman discounted him as a potential threat, and took no measures to neutralise him, he did as Gandalf requested, leading to Gandalf's escape from Orthanc. On the other hand, aside from that, and whatever part he may have played in the battles for the North, he did nothing we know of to aid the cause.
I don't have theories on other wizards but I have one on Saruman. He was Saruman the White, but when he fell he became Saruman of Many Colours. White in color theory and physics and made up from all other colors (except black). So when you separate white color you get other colors. So by becoming Saruman of Many Colours he is actually a shattered person (because white became shattered and splintered), he is only bits and pieces of his old self and he cannot put that together back to be white again. That's why Gandalf when he becames white is stronger than Saruman, Gandalf is whole, while Saruman is shattered.
I picked up on that as well.
Gandalf is Grey because of the character association of grey hair with old age, and also because of the colour of ash since his specialty was fire. Saruman is White because he was supposed to represent the opposite of Sauron's colour of black. Radagast is brown because he cares for the earth, i.e. the flora and fauna of Middle-Earth, in essence a stand-in for St. Francis of Assisi. As to blue, you could do no better than to look up the ancient associations of colour with certain kinds of magic. Blue symbolises harmony, healing, creativity, focus, and patience - all of which Sauron would no doubt be attempting to disrupt among Men in the East.
I think the power of mercy/compassion is under rated. Wasn't grey the color of Nienna's clothing. Also, under the radar, the power of inspiration and helping the "weak" develop agency which may have been the domain of Irmo and perhaps Varda, which also seemed to fit what Gandalf did. (I'm kind of relieved Gandalf didn't study much with Namo, even if Namo might have played a role in sending him back to Middle Earth.) Of course white might be also associated with Varda. I Like the idea of a follower of compassion and inspiration who strives to see underlying truth (kind of like a compassionate advocate).. Nienna, Irmo and Varda. Now... where to fit Manwe?
Manwë is pretty much both the Jupiter and Archangel Michael of Arda. He fits pretty much everywhere, as ultimately he was the one who sent the Istari in the first place. And also, where Varda is, Manwë is also. But I would say that Gandalf seems to have a pretty good connection with the Great Eagles, which are servants of Manwë.
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Grey is also the colour of smoke...and smoke is what people who operate in secrecy and use stealth like Gandalf does until he comes back as the new White cloak themselves in. Gandalf's original role until Saruman's Great Betrayal is exactly that - to operate in the background, kindle hearts and stir resistance without attracting too much attention on himself. Hence why he is 'grey' and unassuming (to say the least) in appearance - it's an attempt to blend in with the background and avoid unwanted checks from the enemy's spies
Cheers from Brazil!
I'm enjoying your videos, u doing a very good job.
Wonderful video! I never looked at the colors that way before.
Nice video, some interesting ideas for sure. Has anyone ever made the connection to monastic orders? White for the Dominicans (scholarly, founded to combat heresy), brown for the Franciscans (wandering, charitable, associated with beasts via St. Francis of Asisi), Grey for the Augustinians (wandering, committed to orthodoxy, committed to poverty). Would make sense given Tolkien's Catholicism, although I don't know of any blue monks in Christianity. Overall I feel like the idea of the order of wizards was never properly fleshed out even in Tolkien's mind, but I don't know all that much
This is very interesting!
I did but I thought the white referred to Cistercians, Grey to the Fransciscans and Brown possibly to the Benedictines.
White as the highest colour of course sounds a bit like the Pope's attire since the 16th century.
@@str.77 Cistercians maybe, although Dominicans are more associated with academia. Also Franciscans wear brown and Benedictines wear black. You could argue that Saruman has a quasi-papal role within the white council and so on, although I'm not sure the image of a Pope wearing plain white robes would have been quite so prevalent at the time Tolkien was writing, pre-Vatican 2 Papal attire was much more regal
@@Alfonzridesagain Franciscans ate also called Greyfriars in English, while the Dominican were called Blackfriars. Whitefriars were the Carmelites.
The Pope wearing white has been the case since the 16th century, though the common reasoning - Pius V was elected and didn't want to change his Dominican (white) habit - is probably a legend.
17:00 Both the grey and the wandering go fairly well with earliest dawn ... before sunrise.
It wanders across the globe, it is grey rather than white, and it gives hope.
Obviously, Doctor Cornelius is a very different character, so is Merlin in That Hideous Strength, but recall Dr. Cornelius telling Caspian to blow the dawn at precisely daybreak?
Been too long since I read Narnia…. Need to remedy that.
@@TolkienLorePodcast Do - before I became homeless, I reread both LotR and Narnia every year, taking about 1 week each.
Cool video :-) I think grey fits Gandalf also regarding his personality, for it is the most humble and inconspicuous colour, fitting for someone who actually hides a great power. Gandalf surely preferred that none of his mortal friends ever witnessed when he had to unveil his full might, and he does not boast about it later 😏
I always thought the reason why Gandalf is "Grey" is because back when he lived in Valinor as Olórin he had some fair association with Nienna, and gained the association to grey from being her pupil.
Great listening as always. FWIW in UT the Blue Wizards' colour is specified as "sea-blue". Let me share my Saruman theory: he originated in Hudibras Part 2, Canto 3, lines 105-6: Quoth Ralph, not far from hence doth dwell / A cunning man, hight Sidrophel. "Cunning man" was a name for a magician; of course it's the meaning of "Saruman". Sidrophel has a telescope; at one point Hudibras berates him with the fate of Anaxagoras, banished "for speaking impiously about the pure white light of the Sun" (editor's note). So Gandalf takes Saruman's place as representative of the Sun, following Plato's Analogy of the Sun (it lights up the world as Goodness lights up the mind).
My headcanon is that Radagast was trying to find the Entwives after meeting Treebeard (hence why he was near Isengard), so he went north to investigate the rumours of walking trees near the Shire.
Regarding the Blue Wizards, you could probably make the case that both of the statements Tolkien made are true. For instance, they may very well have succeeded - but, in order to do so they may have had to go beyond their mandates or the rules laid upon them. One might speculate that a character (one of the Blue Wizards) whose name means Darkness Slayer (Morinehtar) may have engaged Saurons allies in a more direct sense than was intended by his peers. Correspondingly, one might hypothesise that the other Blue Wizard, whose name means East Helper (Rómestámo), may have had to start a 'countercult' in order to draw Sauron's prospective acolytes away from joining the armies that joined Mordor.
Just imagine the epic story that could've been!
According to J.R.R. Tolkien, the Blue Wizards have "sea-blue" robes, which would not look dark blue. They almost certainly mean "travel". The Blue Wizards had travelled far into the East.
I always thought of them being blue as a symbol of their origin in Valinor, beyond Belegaer. Like a message from the Valar to the East: "no, we didn't forget about you, those two are our messengers and envoys". Their second set of names also provides useful insights on their jobs: one is Morinehtar (Darkness-killer) and the other is Rómestámo (East-helper). In some way, they almost work as another Gandalf/Saruman pair, but in a Sauron-dominated context. One is here to cleanse his lies and hold over the region whereas the role of the other is to give hope to the Easterlings, make it known to them that they are not alone and inflame their hearts against Sauron.
It's interesting to note that this would logically make them operate in the reverse order as Saruman and Gandalf: whereas in the West, it's:
1) stir up tired and maybe sometimes hopeless hearts, but ones that are still fundamentally on the good side;
2) coordinate the main fight against the Enemy;
in the East we have:
1) purify the heart and minds of the peoples;
2) rebuild something on untainted foundations, and maybe don't attack Sauron directly, but undermine his base of power by showing to the peoples there's another way.
And otherwise, another thing you could add about Gandalf's grey is that it's simply a more unremarkable, less grand colour, and as such it also fits his role as a background fighter, not one leading from the front in plain daylight, but one closer to the simple people, more understanding of their concerns and better placed to give them courage.
All of them are from Valinor though so why would that specifically make those two blue?
@@TolkienLorePodcast Because the East is less knowledgeable about Valinor and had less contact with it, and that the role of the Ithryn Luin is thus somewhat equivalent to ambassadors or emissaries, moreso than the Western Wizards. So I think it would make sense for them bear some kind of ""flag"" or emblem. Note that simply wearing blue isn't really shouting loud "We were sent here by the Valar, we are ennemies to Sauron!" everywhere either, but it could be a symbol for those which have already been introduced to them.
As you were talking I was thinking about Gandalf.
My idea was that he had no role in particular, which grey seems appropriate for. When they were initially sent, Gandalf was pretty much chosen as the extra guy and was reluctant to go. He was a bit of an undirected catalyst and a bit of a utility player able to fill in where needed.
Great content as always. I love these videos. Reminds me of my days on LOTR Plaza back in the early 2000s.
Thanks for sharing. I believe the two blues represent the sea and sky. Whereas Gandalf represents the gray of ideas. He sometimes does things that would be considered mischievous or bad in order for good things to come from them. As the 'gray,' he is a mix of both light and dark. Gandalf is balanced.
Gandalf, although a Maia of Manwë and Varda, was very close to Nienna, the Lady of Mourning, from whom he learned compassion, pity and hope. She was known to wear a grey hood. It makes sense that the compassionate Gandalf, whose chief mission was to ignite the light of hope in the hearts of the Free Peoples, would choose to wear grey.
As for Saruman, it is important to remember that the Order of Istari is not the same thing as the White Council. Yes, Saruman was made the leader of the White Council much later, but he was already the leader of the Wizards when he departed from Valinor, and recognized as such when he landed in Middle-Earth. And it's probably because of his position that he was elected leader of the White Council. Contrary to the others, the white colour of his robes was a sign of command. It is logical that the catholic Tolkien would give him the pontifical white.
I doubt Tolkien really assigned roles to the colours of the wizards, except for Saruman. Gandalf was created in The Hobbit when Tolkien had no idea of the One Ring and its link to Sauron, and even less of an order of wizards sent to destroy him. I don't even remember Gandalf being called "the Grey" in The Hobbit. It was just Gandalf. Yes, he wore grey robes, but also a silver scarf and a blue hat. If Tolkien wanted to assign colours to the different roles, there would have been more obvious choices. This video says that the Blue Wizards chose that colour to appear darker, almost as agents of the enemy. Well, grey, especially dark grey, would have been the logical choice for that. Radagast, who was sent to Yavanna to protect nature, should have worn green clothes. As for Gandalf, brown could have been just as logical as grey as the colour of a wandering wizard. There is something sacerdotal with the Wizards. They speak for the Valars. Gandalf crowns Aragorn as King of Gondor and Arnor, like a bishop would have done in our western monarchies, or how the Pope crowned Charlemagne Emperor of the Romans. In the catholic faith, priests, monks and friars usually wear neutral colours: white, grey, brown, black. Black was out of the question, so the three wizards we see in LotR are clad in white, grey and brown.
Great video! Like what you came up with for Blue
1. White - Sent to directly oppose Sauron the Black
2. Blue - Sent to undermine Sauron the Black underneath his nose
3. Brown - Sent to protect and unite the forces of nature against Sauron the Black
4. Grey - Sent to explore the lands of Middle Earth and acquire information on all peoples of Middle-Earth be they under the White free lands of the West or the enslaved Black lands of Sauron.
4:26 what is not a joke in the Hobbit movies? Even Smaug and Legolas are kind of jokes...
My theory:
White = Clean, doesnt get hands dirty, academic wizard of the light much like a politician
Grey = Wizard of experience and balanced knowledge, wisest of all wizards getting hands dirty for the path of light
Black = obvious
Brown = Wizard of the earth, wise only on earthly matters, neither good nor evil, only a carer of nature
Blue = Wizards from the water. I imagine they arrived to east lands from the sea and talk of lands and beasts over and within the great oceans. They have specific powers pertaining to the memory of all life as it is said that water is special as it holds the music (memory) of the past and present. I feel there is two because one may be lighter of heart then the other. One wizard is assisting sauron where the other may be impeding saurons plans. I think they have strong ties to the Ainur Ulmo
My assumption is that Gandalf's colour represents his sphere, so to speak. Where Saruman is the expert on the Enemy (how to oppose, or how to become, depending on when you're talking about), and Radagast's domain of expertise is plants and animals and things of nature and the soil, Gandalf's special concern is with Men, in particular, and others of the Free People - those who are neither of the Shadow, nor of the Light, and whose choices ultimately determine the world's fate - the grey of neutrality and choice. Even before being retasked as Gandalf the White, his actions of all the wizards did most to contribute to Sauron's defeat - not least in supporting Thorin's quest to reclaim the Lonely Mountain, thereby reinforcing the Northern flank and preventing Sauron from taking Rivendell or Mirkwood in the first assault - all through encouraging, guiding and counselling people.
the colours can mean many things. some thoughts.
Saruman the white: may be seen as symbolic; Saruman has an association with knowledge and he spends many of his first years in ME learning; so white is like a white canvas, ready to be filled with what one chooses; saruman ended up filling it with the knowledge of the enemies ways; i would also guess that chosing white to dress is a nod to Saruman growing hubrys as he saw himself as opposing Sauron´s black; similarly white represents light and he was and considered himself an emissary of the Valar.
When he becomes the multi-coloured: it may mean a loss of purity, a loss of the original purpose he was sent to ME with; in his mind he saw being many colous and being better, but having more does not always mean being better.
Gandalf the grey: his names are all simple names, given to him by people who looked upon him; grey comes not only from his clothes but more from his hair and overall looks: i think that more than Saruman and radagast, gandalf used is fleshy desguise as an old man, grey hair and curved from age.
in other words, we the readers can find symbolism in the colours but in the story there is no greater meaning to them.
Well, a sign of a great writer is to know what to explain and what to leave a mystery...
I always thought the blue symbolized that they go “into the blue”, since much of the east is unknown and mysterious.
An interesting connection but I doubt their color was meant to be merely a pun lol.
Great thoughts there. I really like them.
I like this idea and I think you basically have them right. Although, I think given the prominence of Gandalf, who is in fact in many ways the most active in opposition, to treat him as the backup or the understudy - the "shadow" of white is wrong. White, observe is literally a polar opposite of black in the story. He stays in his tower and does battle through items of power and through minions sent on missions.
Gandalf, in contrast, goes out and offers counsel. WISE counsel to all the peoples of the West. He is a "grey eminence" - he is WISDOM (where Saruman is more intellectual and knoweldge - he studies the enemy and his strategems, but is ultimately corrupted in that Nietzschean sense, of becoming that which one hates).
Gandalf is the most active of all of them - and the most successful, though apparently the blue wizards counterintellence efforts matter. but it is Gandalf who is the wise and as the dispenser of heavenly wizdom from Valinor, his role is as you say, worldly and therefore not pure but rather in the wrold with all of its complexity.
Super interesting video, but you gotta bring back The Sign at the Prancing Poney.
Every time I see a new video he has less stuff on the wall i think lol. He used to have lotr swords and prancing pony sign. Now only one map left :(
My current backdrop is temporary, fear not. ;)
@@TolkienLorePodcast Hahaha, oh man, you are the best!
In my headcanon, I split the difference on the blue wizards - one of them stayed true and stirred up resistance among the Men and Dwarves of the East (and maybe the Avari, too, who were probably more 'we're staying out of this' than pro-Sauron), while the other fell and established some kind of cult like Tolkien originally envisioned.
Also, Alatar and Pallando were seemingly Maiar in the service of Oromë, so maybe blue was associated with the great hunter?
Grey is often associated with wisdom, i.e. the Greek goddess of wisdom being "Grey-eyed Athena."
Gandalf the Grey was meant to fight Sauron by collecting knowledge.
Good ideas... What do you think Saruman's "Many Colors" represented? To me it always stuck out as some sort of almost biblical reference by Tolkien.
It seems most likely either a claim to the expertise of all the Wizards, or else (given what he tells Gandalf) a simple repudiation of white.
Aren't Odin's two ravens sometimes described as "blue" in Norse literature?
That I don’t know. I really should be more acquainted with Norse tales but sadly that was never part of my reading.
@@TolkienLorePodcast I found the video I was thinking of. He just mentions Ravens in Norse poetry in general, not specifically Odin's Ravens. ruclips.net/video/fIuqaKLTjsQ/видео.html
It's a good RUclips channel if you're interested in Norse mythology. He occasionally mentions Tolkien and some of the themes and details that he borrowed.
Hey, unrelated question: What happened with GROND after the Battle of Pelennor? :D
Presumably left on the field by the fleeing Orcs.
I think it should be mentioned that Saruman cloaks himself in a robe that can show many colours. The idea of colours does have some large meaning (at least to the wizards).
That is one clever analysis!
16:32 deluded or diluted?
In UK, the words would be very different, , the t in diluted could become a glottal stop, but not a d ...
I’m a lazy southerner so my pronunciation isn’t careful lol. I’m saying “diluted” of course.
@@TolkienLorePodcast Thought so.
Became clear when you added "not pure white" = diluted white.
If Gandalf was made the leader of the council would it then be the grey council instead of the white?
Before starting to watch the video: I would say yes!
Why?
Because he is the purest of heart (white), but he is not ignorant of the evil and he served under Nienna who taught him pity for the hurt and the dead (black is after all the funeral colour).
Let's see....even just the title is already so interesting 🙂
Edit: of course grey also disappears best amongst people and during most times of the day! Which is why Gandalf is always in the background except for Elronds feast in Rivendell.
Perhaps there any significance with there be having 5 wizards too?
A christian youtuber (very against lotr/fantasy) mentioned how this is tied to occult symbolism. And that tolkien isnt actually a real christian
ruclips.net/video/zyMBvU1MCBU/видео.html
@@greenergrass4060 that was hard to watch. That guy just wants to burn books.
I watched the whole thing and left my largest comment on youtube.
@@brethilnen just finished it, and wow was it absolutely awful. It's blatantly obvious he hasn't read anything Tolkien and outside of "evil things are evil" he was 100% wrong. The only thing that gave me any thought was the number of wizards.
@@brethilnen cant see it though. And it looks he disabled the like/dislike ratio. But the latest comment tells us the ratio was 50-25.
😂
Grey to survey and White to smite? 🤔
I’m surprised you didn’t mention Gandalf’s hat being blue
The theory I came up with was that Gandalf wore grey to honor his teacher Nienna
Gandalf the Grey; a mendicant. The traditional color of the Franciscan Order, wandering mendicants, is grey.
Hello there. This comment is not relative to this video in particular, it is a general question.
I used to think that the Ring Verse could not have been composed LATER than the couplet inscribed on the Ring itself, because in that sentence there is a reference to the other rings (rule "them" all) and I thought that it would have been grammatically incorrect to make it if they were not introduced first, as it is the case with the whole Verse. I thought this was an inconsistency on Tolkien's part.
On the other hand, since the word "ring" is used, this might be a self-referential argument, and I tried to find another sentence working like that. And one immediately stroke my mind: "A war to end them all". So, I don't think there's any inconsistency anymore, but incidentally I've come to think that that motto in particular might have had a special resonance for Tolkien and maybe inspired him the Verse. What do you think? Is it possible, in your opinion, that Tolkien actually started writing (articulating) the Verse from the couplet, from "One ring to rule them all", inspired by the formulation of "A war to end them all"?
A lot of things are possible but I’ve never read anything that would lead me to think that was on his mind when he wrote the Ring verse.
FWIW it was HG Wells who introduced the phrase "the war that will end war" in a 1914 book of that title. It was written for an American audience, it was published in the USA by Dutton, in fact I never heard of it till I researched this comment. Tolkien doubtless knew the phrase in some form. Another WW1 saying is "they shall not pass" (ils ne passeront pas) said by Petain at Verdun ... rather like Gandalf on the bridge. As to the Ring-verse, it would be typical of Tolkien to expand it from the main two lines ... I'd guess that's what the Elvish loremasters did too
@@pwmiles56 I'm more interested in the form with the pronoun, "war to end THEM all", which by the way is what people were actually saying most of the times. I also doubt that HG Wells was the first to come up with the phrase; I rather suspect the expression to be older, probably of freemason origin (and probably dating back to the days of Napoleon).
@@TolkienLorePodcast I'm not a native English speaker, so please help me here. Do you have many idiomatic expressions following the form "an X to Y them all", where "them" refers to the set of all Xs, or is that a somewhat rare, peculiar case?
I’m mainly familiar with expression “war to end all wars” which referred to World War I. I’m not sure I know of any other examples, though in the back of my mind I feel like I’ve heard similar expressions.
I don't think there is a real, deliberate meaning in the blue wizards. In other Tokien's letters they are described without mentioning any colour at all. Surely Tolkien had some ideas but they were never written down as such. I like the meaning of white vs black being Saruman the mirror image of the Dark Lord - and failing spectacularly when trying to become more than that.
The grey man blends in.
Isnt blue the color of calming or something? Calming the beast of the east maybe?:P
The Istari are so great. The greatest of these is Gandalf the White. Next to King Elessar and the Dunedain . Gandalf, Methrandir.
The blue wizards are the same color as Superman's hair? I like it.
Grey collar job
Grey is half way between white and black 🤔
Came from EarnestlyEston recommendation
That accent dude. I have to figure out that accent.
Good luck. At this stage it’s probably a bit of an amalgam 😂
I believe that their color was based on who they served in the Blessed lands.
Doesn’t really seem to fit. Saruman was a Maia of Aule, which doesn’t seem to fit white to me.
I'm a black wizard...
Ah the Blue Wizards... the least well understood good entities of tolkien
Somewhat related, does this mean wizards never wear any other color clothes? Artists always depict them as wearing their color, but did Tolkien ever actually describe their clothes, or does everybody just assume they wear their color? I believe Gandalf was wearing grey robes the day he introduced himself to Bilbo, but that is all. Do we know that he wasn't wearing a green robe the next time they met, or does he only have one set of clothes, and we make all of our assumptions based off one very brief description?
He wears nice clothes at the feast in Rivendell before the Council of Elrond, or at least that’s how I’ve always interpreted the phrase that he was revealed as a lord of dignity and power, but his clothing isn’t actually described.
I know in the beginning of Fellowship, when he has the crates marked with his rune before Bilbo’s party, he is described as wearing a blue hat, silver scarf, and grey cloak, with a white beard - I know this doesn’t answer your question, but the blue hat is one of my favorite little bits of info, not hidden at all, but is sometimes missed.
STORMCROW!!!!
Not buying it. Gandalf told the rest of the Fellowship to run from the Balrog so he could keep all the EXP for himself. 😂
The world is not black or white, just shades of gray- So sayeth the wiseman.
Gandalf mentions the two blue wizards in the Hobbit, as they travel east by pony, & says he has quite forgotten their names. So Tolkien had the five in mind from the very start. As to colour coded jobs, Mithrandir is his name for both Elves & Edain, the translation of which is grey pilgrim.
Gandalf doesn’t say that in the book, it was added by Peter Jackson.
You're picture is crooked
Just slightly on the right
Actually it’s the camera angle. Thought I got it right but must have been just off.
The amount of gayness they have.