The portrait of your love in the background is beautiful and perfect Very sorry for your loss Thank you for continuing your work and helping the conversation of energy solutions moving forward
A wind turbine for the garden or balcony to generate minimal energy would simply be a dream project! I would love to see that. And if only it were to charge a small power bank. I would print something like that immediately!
The first 3 minutes just give a summary that is worth an hour lecture!! When I think I know about electric motors but you boost that so much in such a short time!
Phenomenal video. Crisp, clean information. Great delivery. No hyperbole. I respect it. Thank you for your work. I'll have to print this out and give it a shot.
I folllow you , when you are only upload chemical batteries , and i learn alot in my college years , from your videos , now your new research in special type projects and systems are also very interesting and unique, thanks for your time and efforts
as a sci-fi illustrator, I'd love to observe liquid metal Eddy currents flowing through a solenoid coiled around a toroidal circumferential flux generator or a conal disk transmission/motor. I find the engineering really pretty & inspiring to think about!
the perpetual motion, the gradual power differentials of curves, & the sheer longevity of it all within electromagnetics naturally inspires significant awe about itself in me, comparatively to traditional gearboxes. & I love gearboxes very much, it's just that their friction wears through them so rapidly that I can't help but to think towards the standards of what we use with our satellites, our rockets, our solid state technology & whatnot (which certainly wear through their own manufactured operating qualities in their own ways) 🤍
anyway, I'd love to see a toroidal inductance generator in motion. it's such a natural shape between generators, motors, & circumferential flux (if I'm not mistaken?) that I wish to see some roll around! i saw the choo-choo battery train once & ever since then i've been routinely pondering why we haven't discovered how to inverse the efficiency
Again another awesome video that makes you think 👍. First thing that came into my mind was that if you stacked the rotors you could have a magnet passing both sides of each coil and any number of coils and magnet rotors you wanted and if you staggered the coils by 1/3 you could produce a very efficient 3 phase generator
Huh, never heard of a circumferential motor, but it vaguely reminds me of an idea that's been bouncing around in my head for a while. Cool to see people working on this.
@@ThinkingandTinkering The only thing you briefly touched on was about the full bridge rectifier needed. to turn it from AC guess because you're generating AC To turn it into a DC current, is that correct? .
Neat thank you. Got to test this one two. I tried my little test design with both NSNS... configuration and halbach and the gain for twice amount of magnets was at best 40 % with "spun it by hand" measuring method. It is interesting to make it just to feel how the difference in pull on the weak and strong sides. But power generation wise i guess it might be cheaper to use more wire instead. Or perhaps make two rotors and stack em up just like you are stacking coils.
Thank you for this very interesting video. I do think that using Serpentine coil is too big of a departure from the Circumferential design but I know... if I want to see it, I have to make it! hehe I did look at the website, and I think their design appears to be missing some key components and explanation. They have a video of a propeller driven by the motor, and I think the coils are driven by a controller. Whenever I go to a website, and they don't actually have product for sale, but rather a "email" for info... I tend to throw the warning flag.
I agree mate it is a bit of a red flag - even so what manufacturer makes a product and says well we like it but it is slightly worse than everything else out there lol - so, I kind of make an allowance - I suspect there isn't that much difference between what they have made and an axial flux design
I can see 3D printing makes it much more easy to experiment with different motor designs. Never saw that egg-beater design before. I suspect something interesting to happen if coils where placed around the top end of each of the spinning magnets also.
@ThinkingandTinkering did you see the new stuff on quantum delocalization energy? they use graphene, nanopore clay, and water it's in new scientist magazine. it reminded me of your graphrne SWAG generator
Nice generator ,I trying to make small windmill out of paint brush roller,connecting coils from broken led bulbs inside ,plus neodium magnets,hopefully will be done one day😅,thanks
yes robert has in fact made an axial flux generator here but his definition does not care about flux direction. However since the axial flux at the magnet starts axial but soon curves to circumferencial as it trys to hop to an adjacent magnet so there is some circumferencial flux. Now to generate we need a wire at right angles to a circumference and yes his V winding does have a component at rightangles to the circumference so yes he will get some voltage from the circumferencial flux as well as from the radial flux. How to measure the relative contributions of voltage between axial and radial fluxes? It is not possible with his flat coils as both axial and circumferential voltages are in phase. You would need a small short solenoid with a circumferencial axis to detect only the circumferential component and a similar small short solenoid with a radial axis to detect the axial component. I am guessing that the axial voltage will be greater than the circumferencial voltage with his coils but i accept that there is a real circumferencial contribution with his coils.
Sandwiching 1 set of rotating magnets with 2 sets of coils is probably a much better generator design than sandwiching 1 set of coils with 2 sets of rotating magnets because it should be much less mass and therefore should do better starting at low wind speeds. Excited to see it in use on a wind turbine! However, I am curious if the magnetic field strength and direction passing through the coils will be diminished vs the other design. 2 sets of magnets sandwiching the coils should have a very strong, single direction magnetic field between the 2 sets of magnets.
Robert, have you come across Kriss Harbours channel? he builds and installs small hydo generator system, I enjoy watching you both, equally passionate about 2 sides of a similar subject. your work of wind generators and efficiency and Kris's feeding the grid semm complimentary and after the challenges of 2024 you had it may give you another project with a like minded youtuber. great to have you still presenting real passion on the subject
Love the video and love your channel. I always learn a ton watching your videos. In the future could you put a link to your other videos that tou reference in the description? It would make it much easier for people like me to find them.
Hello Robert I wanted to thank you for helping people with knowledge and understanding and I love watching and learning from you,as a Christian witness and testimony I wanted you you to know that Patti"s spirit is still alive and with Christ at this time of the unveiling the dead in Christ rise first in the second coming which is any time soon now the promises of God and Christ are very real and I promise you good sir you will see Patti again when you cross over and she will be in her glory as promised by our Lord...hold strong Robert it truly is a bumpy ride but we will all be in bliss at the end ...peace to you and may the Lord bless you for helping those who don't understand...God Bless You Robert
Looks good! I wonder about the two coils cancelling. If they do, wouldn't flipping the wires on one cause them to add coherently? Might actually be more efficient than separately rectifying each. Just a thought; it's your experiment.
I'm a bit confused. What you've built here appears to be an axial flux motor. As far as I can tell, a circumferential flux motor is supposed to have windings in the shape of a toroidal solenoid, with the rotor magnets passing through it. I can't see a solenoid here anywhere.
axial flux attempts to surround the coil with a magnetic field Circumferential flux attempts to surround the magnetic field with a coil- a solenoid is the most effective way of doing this but with a rotor centrally placed you can't do that - so you have to try a different geometry to get the same effect
@@ThinkingandTinkering I can't make any sense of that. The distinction between radial, axial and circumferential flux is the direction of the flux as it passes between the rotor and the stator. It has nothing to do with what's surrounding what. I can't see how your design isn't just an axial flux motor with a slightly unusual way of doing the windings. You say it can't be done with a solenoid, but Motion Robotics claim to have found a way. They don't go into details on their web site, but I suspect they have a serpentine winding wrapped around the toroid, leaving a slot for the rotor to pass through. You've got a serpentine winding, but it's completely flattened out so there's no flux at all in the circumferential direction.
@@gcewing I can't help it if you can't make sense of it mate - it's pretty straight forward - however what i suspect is what you mean is you think I am wrong. I don't mind you thinking I am wrong mate. However, it also means we are going to have to agree to disagree
Imo, but i'm just a moron...also for me i regard this as axial. Any how what counts is that it works. That looks fine 👍. If i live long emough i'll try it out for charging batteries with wind or hydro or steam power. Probably not with a printer. Althoug i recognize the handyness ! 😊,Strange i have to think of a movie " you say bannana, i say banana". Whatever, if you like the tast 👍. Thanks Robert ! Thanks gcewing! Have a nice evening 💫🌠🍀🍀👋
How interesting, the photo showing the old generator @ 1:15 is a exact copy ( slight difference in configuration) of ones found in antique electric shock medical devices from the 1880's -1920's, a quack cure. These were never thrown out because it's so much fun shocking friends, as a result there are plenty of them still about for as little as £40 on ebay, amazing these can be bought for so little.
Hi Robert. Maybe you could use the 2623 printed bearing on the bottom for the wind mill? But no the needle bearing has much less resistance so never mind :)... But can't wait for the wind mill I will definitely build one. Thanks for the great video and the design files!
I saw a patent once showed a method of picking up any metal as if magnetically. A legitimate paatent. I recall it spoke of the Biot-Savart effect or law or something like that.
HAWT would do great with this! And since it's so light, would a little gearing to get it to spin faster be possible? Then that would generate higher voltages, right? You truly inspire me to get a 3D printer every day 😅
A few weeks ago I saw a short video that had an armature with perm magnets with loops of copper tubing around it. The tube had water and as the armature rotated the water got hot. Does that actually work. Hand crank water heaters that have a belt drive pump could create hot water for 3rd world and off grid uses.
There are videos on RUclips showing people melt metal by spinning magnets next to the metal. Cody's Lab is one channel with this type of video. I'm pretty sure there are less expensive contraptions one could make to heat water using human power.
Hey, love the video. I was wondering if you have noticed the echo in your room though. If you would just hang up a blanket or something it would help that out.
@@ThinkingandTinkering The echo does make it harder to understand you. It would be nice if there were an easy way to reduce the echo. I'll still watch either way.
@@ThinkingandTinkering There was a huge underground physics lab at my university. (I was amazed to learn this giant room was under an area where I had walked many times.) The giant room had a horrible echo. Someone good with the physics of sound figured out if they added a couple of sound absorbers at key locations, it would cut the echo way down. It worked really well. You probably don't need to hang a blanket but there might be some small adjustment which would reduce the echo. Again, not a big deal but it would be easier to understand you with less of an echo.
@@ThinkingandTinkering fair enough. And yeah it’s not a huge deal. Might be able to find a mic that can automatically reduce echo as well. Or not, I will still love your videos lol.
@@ThinkingandTinkering Where can I PM you sir? I have idea in my mind for more then 25 years and would like to share with someone with practical knowledge in physics.
What your model reminds me of is a Tesla Turbine more than anything else. I wouldn't be surprised if Nikola didn't play around with winding that type of generator at some point in his life.
I was surprised by your implementation - based on the introduction, i was expecting a ring coil formed by solenoids bent into an arc - maybe T-shape spokes on a wheel with each crossbar (shaped for the outer circle) having a solenoid on each side. When you put up the solenoid slide, I pictured the flux going round the circumference of the circle...
I did not understand the part in which it is argued that on each side of a "V" the currents oppose and cancel ... if each side of the "V" at the same time is being through a magnet of *opposite* polarity but in the opposite direction of the coil for being inverted in the direction then would be *added* nor "subtracted" ....
This is multifactorial. The Magnetic flux strength, coil resistance, and Mechanical Input Horsepower will be limitations to the amps that a motor can output. Additionally the load on the generator will also contribute. A generator that has no connected load, doesn't actually have any amps to output. If you put a 1000 watt load on a Generator designed to handle 100 watts, then the coils will heat up and melt the insulation. But theoretically you could "provide" the input power to make a 100 watt generator output much higher... at the risk of melting the insides. The faster you spin the shaft, the higher the voltage for common designs. So, you can spin it faster, and get more power out of it. You would then use electronics to regulate and adjust the voltage to some desired amount such as 12vdc or whatever.
First things that come to my mind; - we can stack mulitple stages on each other. - as mentioned, magnetic bearing, but lately i'm thinking about a twist to it; What You always showed us, was either to opposing ring magnets with a shaft and bearing in a center or a horizontal setup, where one end is resting on something. What if we just "hang" the rotary part with the property of the pushing / pulling (this case holding power) of that magnet? Let's say, we have the stacked idea, where the rotors are have a common - non magnetic - shaft without the bearings in a vertical config and we (e.x.) glue a simple screw at the top, the pin facing upward. Ex. this (shaft+magnets+the disks=rotor) weights a 9gram (just made up values) and we have a magnet above this that can hang a like 9 gram of weight. This config there is truly only one single point of contact that from one perspecive - without the bearings - has almost zero friction - and playing with the weight of the rotors - that as a whole are acting in this case as a flywheel also by themselves bythaway...- So, by playing the rotors overall weight, with this hanging method i belive we could truly achiveing true passive magnetic levitating. What could be a help fpr this - if playing with weight does not achive it - i have qnother idea as using 2 more magnets at the bottom of the shaft. One is a common button like, glued on the bottom of the shaft with a screw glued to it - this time, pointing downward, and the other one is a ringmagnet and it is below/aroumd at the tip of the screw. The bottom magnets are facing opposite to repell. In this case, as if the pushing or holding force of the bottom, ring magnet overcomes the weight of the rotor, playing with the vertical position of the top, hanging magnet (to find a sweet spot, where the magnetic force only would hold the rotor in a stable point) could create a point of - i guess - true, and passively levitated rotor. Dumb?
Would be better tu use the "mighty wind turbine" coils setup over serpentine coils? I mean yes, more work - still dead easy - and additional materials, but as far as i understand, that configuration maxes out the useful contact area between the magnets and the coil.
What if you wrapped the coils from top to bottom going around the housing in a three D serpentine coil? So the serpentine coil Cups the top and bottom over the edge sort of I guess? Though I wonder if you would have to use a large doughnut magnet if the little magnets didn't work?
@@ThinkingandTinkering that would be awesome! Where you were talking about joining the coils would cancel each other out, if they were connected in series would they cancel out too? If you offset the coils so that they form an X pattern along the magnet path, would that stop them from cancelling out and give you a smoother 2 phase output?
Curious if you could create multiple layers of magnets and coils into about 10 layers of coils and 9 layers of magnets would there be any interferences or would it magnify the power by multiples of X or by 10???
@@ThinkingandTinkering So for example the wind is your power, you need a bigger sail to capture the wind rather than more layers of coils?? What if you do both, bigger sail AND more coils??
It would be interesting to test using PCBs for the "coil" section for fast prototyping using something like PCBway (sponsorship opportunity for RUclips creators)
cheers mate - it's described as a combination between axial flux and radial flux - which is pretty much what a circumferential flux motor is if you think about it
@ThinkingandTinkering thanks! That's what I figured as well. Love how this motor doesn't need any active cooling, that would make it lighter, more efficient, and more reliable than most motors out there.
I built model generators like this years ago. Didn't know the configuration had this name! I remember thinking I wanted to surround the magnets with as much wire as possible but the toroid like geometry was too difficult to achieve at the time.
It's funny when you make a point of saying that generators and motors are the same thing, before and after saying you prefef to make generators. X'D I have a basic degree in electromechanics, including analog and digital electronics and complex impedance. I understood these things intuitively as a child, playing with slot car racers, volt meters, electronics kits, etc. It's very much the same principles behind a speaker and a microphone, which we likewise dismantled and played with as kids. You can use electricity sent into a coil to create a magnetic field that moves other bits of magnets or certain metals like iron or steel. And likewise, you can move magets around bits of wires to make electricity. And either way, you can add bits to either end to physically move something, be it something like a speaker, microphone, solenoid, motor, radial, axial, stepper, flux, circumferential, flywheel, etc, or you can shape the field with bits of metal or dynamically changing positions of magnets, or you can control and shape the electdic circuit to modify inputs or outputs, like rectifiers and filters on a generator or transformer output, or filters, equalizers and amplifiers on a mic input or output, or motor control on a stepper motor input, etc. Which brings me to an understanding that motors and generators, like motors and speakers or microphones and generators, while operating on the same fundamental physical forces of electromagnetism, are quite different once you move beyond the most trivial use cases, necessarily so, to manage the peculiarities and complexities that arise when trying to improve sound fidelity or generator efficiency or motor power and so on. However, understanding this crossover area based upon fundamentals, might give people inspiration for new ideas. Like harnessing the noise of the city to drive a speaker used to oscillate a solenoid, sent to a flywheel by a linear drive, differential, flywheel, with an output/work drive side, or battery for excess kinetic energy, etc. It may not even be practical, just a Rube Goldberg machine, but fun and weird and awesome all the same.
My habit is try and draw parallels rather than differences - i think it helps understanding - of course in actual build the requirements of the geometry of what you want to do change the instances of how you implement the forces you are playing with.
Would it be possible to make a magnetic gear out of this, where the two stators have different pole counts and the rotor has the appropriate flux paths between them? The idea being to avoid mechanical losses in gears. Like the pseudo-direct-drive from Magnomatics, but without the magnets, and the rotor is just a shaft with flux-path iron in it.
Apologies if I missed something, but you have two fixed star coils and a floating magnetic rotor. If the power to each star coil is out of phase, could you apply power to both coils to make the rotor spin?
Since the magnetic field goes all the way around could you make the legs of the star long enough to wraparound to the other side and space the coil arms so the norths on 2 adjacent magnets boost each other instead of a N & S on opposite sides cancelling out? Hope I've described that well enough it makes sense in what I mean, not sure if it would make sense scientifically.
Short of reversing the position of the coils and magnets, I cannot understand how this is any different than an axial generator. The magnetic flux that crosses the coils is still oriented axially.
The difference between axial and circumferential flux - axial flux attempts to surround a coil wire with a magnetic field - circumferential flux attempts to surround the magnetic field with a coil of wire - that's it really
I am really intrigued b y your serpentine coils, have you ever tried using a serpentine coil to make a solid state magnetic stirrer or would it be more accurate to call it a motorless magnetic stirrer?? idk but i have been trying to find a budget friendly way to make a magnetic stirrer and yes i am aware of the many build out there that use magnets and cpu fans and have even used one i just like the idea of being able to produce myself that other companies actually pay thousands of dollars for
I may be missing something but part of my mind is questioning ( although not answering ) if you could you use a, sort of, inverted crab claw cage, ( the claws facing away from each other rather than towards each other ) to redirect the non coil-surrounded parts of the magnetic field to where the coil is? I'm guessing I'm missing something, or people far smarter than me would have already done something similar.
it's a good idea mate but it kind of goes against the simpleness of construction and would mean adding a weight of steel to do it - you might end up lowering the power density
@ThinkingandTinkering This spring I want to put one up inside the tower behind my house. It's 50' (about 15m) high. I can put it most of the way up inside the triangular structure. I really want to play.
Just for peace of mind. On you follow up Video could you include at least a pencil sketch of what the generator would look like with the additional coil you mention in moment 9 minutes in? I am intrested in both building the unit you show and then going back and building a second unit that has the mentioned additional coil. The Weather here is -7 degrees at dawn. The digging of the work shops' foundation has pretty much come to a halt. I'm doing something that's never been done before in the area of concrete pouring and I can't show the progress until it's done, and hand digging a modified foundation that is 41.3' by 90' is taking it's own sweet time.
good thought mate and you can't really put concrete down in those temps I know there are additives but they are not brilliant - so you just have to take the time it needs i am afraid
@@andrewsackville-west1609 The digging the bulk of it is the easy part, It's the after dark scraping with a hoe and a Pick to get everything level (That last 2% of the dig when you are trying to get less than an inch of deviations), and when the dirt here is rock hard. The foundation perimeter will be Hyper-Adobe (tinyshiney Home You tubes) But in order to do that you need to put down an outer rim of corrugated sheet metal deep enough that the rodents don't dig under the foundation and then enter the shop space, and for that I will need to rent a trench digger + a back hoe to move all the dirt I threw out of the foundation pit and then a vibrating dirt flattener and that will need a water cube to soften the dirt in the spring. Did I mention that I don't have a wheel barrow so you are walking each shovel full to outside of the foundation pit. Funding for additional tools in that category have been shifted to more winter power for the off grid system. (In all those details that I've shared I've still not given you the WHY this will be something worthy of both trying and set a new standard for wood working shop builds. And The Video will either be worth copping or a grab some popcorn failure.)
@@FuhrChris I think we can come up with some ways to make it more difficult. Have you considered swapping a digging stick for your space? 😉 In all seriousness, I appreciate the detail. Sounds like fun! I'm solo building a 2000sq ft house, myself. I know all about the balance of equipment vs labor vs budget.... Good luck!
@@andrewsackville-west1609 You live in a Country that from the middle it's about 75 miles to coast from any point. I live in a State that everybody forgets exists, (Not even the 4th largest) and for me it's 80 miles to the nearest Grocery store. It would be 100 miles to go to where you can rent the back hoe for construction. Thus you fall back on just making small Daily progressions with the tools you have. (Mind you with the exception of building construction tools that arrive on a trailer, I have 40 years worth of tool collecting. I have tools that most people can't even tell you what they do let alone what there name is.) In fact it's said that when "Bob Vela" dies he wants to come to my place. This is why I contact you. I have both the Tools, the Space, the Winds, the Sun Shine, the Time, and a community college with Engineering Students to take some of your ideas to the long term test bed levels. Ooo and I was in the composites department at Boeing. Actually 1. I'm considering both adding to the West side (2) 100' foundation runs going South so that I can begin making a central Court yarded area much like the Greeks would have, thus I could be outside and yet out of the Winds which are predominant after 10AM. 2. Adding at least one Geo tube which will be 150 long and 10 feet down. (I found a calculator for Geo heating for Greenhouses) and planning on making the South Wall a Black insulated wall with a clear membrane series and push the heat back down into an insulated tube that would go over to the Trailer. Resale of the property value will go up when you can say "You will have zero heating and cooling costs for life!" For the East Wall of a Court yard I'm thinking of making one of your wind Walls on the property fence line. I could one day get around to making a 6' stone wall (Trust me we have too many stones just laying around the country side here) that would be topped off with a Wind Wall. (This would be after I both build the West section of the Court yard and then use a smoke pot to see where the winds go as they cross the East side of where a court yard wall would be?) IE there is NOTHING to do out here but build, or shoot an Elk for Trespassing. On the issue of making it truly more difficult. When it's too cold you Pee on the area you want to scrape down as final working it down to laser level, then quickly scrape it with a flat shovel. (I'm trying to dig down an area that the mice are getting in the Trailer to the point where I can place a wall of corrugated sheet metal, and then back fill both sides with gravel.) So you have to climb through the Solar panels and stand on top of the Trailer hitch to get to the target area. Then quickly get down onto your hands and knees and use a hand trowel to stab at the frozen ground as it turns to mud. (If it was easier to get water from the well and wood fired heat about 5 gallons of water and then poor it over the area that needs a steel rodent barrier (Like desperately needed it yesterday!). So the actual easiest answer is oddly "Drink more instant coooooffffffeeeeeee, do we have any of that instant espresso left? Ya, with that I could rap up this dig TODAY!"
Probably because I'm a little slow, but I don't see why this is much different than an axial flux. Is it different because in an axial flux, you typically have a disk of coils between 2 disks of magnets and this puts a disk of magnets between 2 disks of coils? I'll have to watch it a few more times to process your explanation. LOL
The difference between axial and circumferential flux - axial flux attempts to surround a coil wire with a magnetic field - circumferential flux attempts to surround the magnetic field with a coil of wire - that's it really
be careful with you comments mate - this is a moderated board - moderated by me. If I feel you overstep the mark I will block you from commenting and remove your comments. I have already replied to your comment in regards of this - confine yourself to that - I do not allow board gurus to dominate here
@@ThinkingandTinkering You may do as you wish on your own channel and I fully support that! I just work with motors myself and we generally think of the flux in a motor as being orientated along the principle axis of the system. A spinning top has a main axis, and out from that a radius. The circumference is usually also well defined. A field and torque that is produced along the circumference direction would give the most efficient motor as there is no or little loss vector. The field set up in for example a radial flux motor does by itself not deliver torque, but the imbalance in n/s field experienced by the rotors magnets will create a net torque and this torques vector along the circumference "direction" accelerates the rotor. The less we try and pull the rotor in other directions than the desired, the more efficient the motor. I would very much like to see more detailed coil drawings from Motion Robotics.
@@1kreature yes I would like to see that too - but you do have to remember what I did isn't a motor - although I do say they are fundamentally the same machine that is only a teaching aid - a box to put things in to help other have a framework to conceptualize - the actual implementation is always going to be different based on use case. For my interest I want a perpendicular field to bisect a coil at as close to 90 degrees as i can get given the constraints of the build - also given this kind of motor is basically a linear solenoid curled round to circle - i don't think I did so badly lol
@@ThinkingandTinkering Cheers, just thought of torque over revs, as the commercial wind turbines are geared, ok it's on a larger scale etc. Thanks Gaz Yorkshire.
@@ThinkingandTinkering Yes I saw one made from a 200 litre oil drum Savonius type and the guy that made that had a belt and pulley arrangement to turn an alternator, don't know what ratio he used for that though. Gaz
@@ThinkingandTinkering a tell of yours..... I guessed so. Sorry, i know we are only joking. You and i. BUT, there are symbols still in use up to this day which look like the one you used. I can show you a lot of videos in which certain people, for example Pierce Morgan, or Johnny Carson, or other such talking heads, they all present a symbol. They all seem to have an itch at a certain point in the conversation, and they always (or most of em) do the same thing. They rub their Nose. But, there are slight alterations to the symbol. Nevertheless, if you know a bit about symbolism, then it becomes undeniable that certain symbols are used up to this day in certain circumstances. Circumstances which would make you think i am a tinhat. Nevertheless, i have plenty of videos that need to be explained before one can claim i am a tinhat. Your symbolism, yeah, i understand it is a joke. And, i was triggered by timing. But the professionals on TV use such symbols. Sure, i may be triggered at the wrong moment, but i have stored plenty of it to show anyone with doubt that it is not just my imagination. It is as clear as day, a symbol to tell certain other people that what they will say next is rubbish. Or at least that is the way i interpret the symbol. Again: People like Pierce Morgan and other TV personalities have used all kinds of symbols. Rubbing their cheek, their nose, a cough at a certain moment. If this was just once, with just one guy, with just one kinda story, then you would not have been confronted with this book. BUT it is countless times, with influencial people on the Telly. People with a bit of power, who show their face on the TV daily. Those people use the symbolism. And then they deny it and tell you that you should wear a tinhat. Meanwhile rubbing their nose, scratching their balls or any of such.
Do you use a pin to attach the magnet disk to the axil or are you spinning the coil and the axil is connected to those. Or is it a glued connection. I guess it doesn't matter.
Hi Robert Is the star coil configuration as efficient as winding separate coils, and then solder them together? IE: If running at the same RMP, would the separate coil configuration create higher voltage at lower RPM than the star coil configuration?
That's 11V at whatever speed it was spinning. If you had measured the frequency, you could calculate the speed without any extra sensors. You have 9 "wiggles" in each coil, and 18 magnets in the rotor. This does maximize the voltage, but it also maximizes the torque ripple. It doesn't seem very easy to change this into a 3-phase generator; if you'd use 3 separate stacked coils, phase shifted, with 2 magnetic rotors (so stator-rotor-stator-rotor-stator), the center coil would get a significantly different magnetic field compared to the outer 2. And most importantly, measuring the voltage only tells us that the voltage is no so low as to be unusable. Unless you also measure the (short-circuit) current, resistance and inductance of the coil, and the efficiency, it's meaningless. I expect the inductance to be relatively high, as this is basically an air coil with a rather large diameter and quite a few windings. The resistance will also be quite significant, as this seems like a very long and thin wire.
this is a generator configuration mate - I thought torque ripple was confined to motors? It would also be stunningly easy to make this 3 phase - see the video i did on 3 phase serpentine coils. As for measuring amps - no point as there is no power input that can be quantified - i just flicked it to spin to show it did output which is all i was concerned with for this simple demo of what a circumferential generator is. To be honest I am not sure you got the point of the video
Can't wait to see the results with a wind turbine attached. Also, as you say, a generator and a motor are almost the same except for their applied operation. It would be neat to explore the power production possibilities. Again, thanks for keeping thinking alive!
With axial flux you are trying to surround the coil with a magnetic field with circumferential flux yo are trying to surround the magnetic field with a coil of wire
@@CraigLandsberg-lk1ep I don't want to be rude here mate but did you actually watch the video? You are quite right that's not what I showed - but i also gave an explanation of why what I made was different to what i talked about - that's an important difference because there is always a difference between an idea of we think will work and what actually work in the real world when you come to build it - the real world has a nasty habit of getting in the way when we turn ideas into reality
Nope I belive you made an axial generator with 2 windings, You know there is a sort of toy done with coil and battery and magnets, take that as base. you attach the magnets to the battery, and let it run inside the coil and it will move. If you get an outer ring of a planetary reduction and put magnets onto it ,only one planet gear and then roll solenoid around the ring leaving spaces to hold the ring and the contacts patch to the single planet, that's a circunferential flux generator
The portrait of your love in the background is beautiful and perfect
Very sorry for your loss
Thank you for continuing your work and helping the conversation of energy solutions moving forward
Thank you mate for saying that - she watches over me I am sure
A wind turbine for the garden or balcony to generate minimal energy would simply be a dream project! I would love to see that.
And if only it were to charge a small power bank.
I would print something like that immediately!
The first 3 minutes just give a summary that is worth an hour lecture!! When I think I know about electric motors but you boost that so much in such a short time!
Phenomenal video.
Crisp, clean information.
Great delivery.
No hyperbole.
I respect it. Thank you for your work. I'll have to print this out and give it a shot.
Robert still casting spells and working magic .. Thanks so very much.
lol - cheers mate
I folllow you , when you are only upload chemical batteries , and i learn alot in my college years , from your videos , now your new research in special type projects and systems are also very interesting and unique, thanks for your time and efforts
This is fantastic. Very interesting to me, to hear your explanation and to see how it's done. Thank-you Rob for realizing this idea.
Man, I love these videos. Always well explained and always gets my mind engaged. Thanks for making them!
cheers mate
as a sci-fi illustrator, I'd love to observe liquid metal Eddy currents flowing through a solenoid coiled around a toroidal circumferential flux generator or a conal disk transmission/motor. I find the engineering really pretty & inspiring to think about!
the perpetual motion, the gradual power differentials of curves, & the sheer longevity of it all within electromagnetics naturally inspires significant awe about itself in me, comparatively to traditional gearboxes. & I love gearboxes very much, it's just that their friction wears through them so rapidly that I can't help but to think towards the standards of what we use with our satellites, our rockets, our solid state technology & whatnot (which certainly wear through their own manufactured operating qualities in their own ways) 🤍
anyway, I'd love to see a toroidal inductance generator in motion. it's such a natural shape between generators, motors, & circumferential flux (if I'm not mistaken?) that I wish to see some roll around! i saw the choo-choo battery train once & ever since then i've been routinely pondering why we haven't discovered how to inverse the efficiency
Sería aún más exitoso si tuviera doblaje en español, gracias maestro
Again another awesome video that makes you think 👍. First thing that came into my mind was that if you stacked the rotors you could have a magnet passing both sides of each coil and any number of coils and magnet rotors you wanted and if you staggered the coils by 1/3 you could produce a very efficient 3 phase generator
Somehow your videos always inspire me to get up and start building when in a rut, what a fantastic little design
Go for it mate
Huh, never heard of a circumferential motor, but it vaguely reminds me of an idea that's been bouncing around in my head for a while. Cool to see people working on this.
This is one of your best ones yet. Thank you for including the Stl, files. great demonstration. Great explanation. Fantastic.
oh wow - cheers mate
@@ThinkingandTinkering The only thing you briefly touched on was about the full bridge rectifier needed. to turn it from AC guess because you're generating AC To turn it into a DC current, is that correct? .
@@nothingelsetolose7661 yes it is mate - that is spot on
Neat thank you. Got to test this one two.
I tried my little test design with both NSNS... configuration and halbach and the gain for twice amount of magnets was at best 40 % with "spun it by hand" measuring method.
It is interesting to make it just to feel how the difference in pull on the weak and strong sides. But power generation wise i guess it might be cheaper to use more wire instead.
Or perhaps make two rotors and stack em up just like you are stacking coils.
i agree mate to my mind it is always better to make it and feel the machine operate
Thank you for this very interesting video. I do think that using Serpentine coil is too big of a departure from the Circumferential design but I know... if I want to see it, I have to make it! hehe I did look at the website, and I think their design appears to be missing some key components and explanation. They have a video of a propeller driven by the motor, and I think the coils are driven by a controller. Whenever I go to a website, and they don't actually have product for sale, but rather a "email" for info... I tend to throw the warning flag.
I agree mate it is a bit of a red flag - even so what manufacturer makes a product and says well we like it but it is slightly worse than everything else out there lol - so, I kind of make an allowance - I suspect there isn't that much difference between what they have made and an axial flux design
I can see 3D printing makes it much more easy to experiment with different motor designs. Never saw that egg-beater design before. I suspect something interesting to happen if coils where placed around the top end of each of the spinning magnets also.
the 'egg beater' is a very old design mate
I use 6 layers and it works , I have never seen 1 layer like that design work
Very nice, simple, and light.
cheers mate
HELLO Robert, forgot to wish you a HAPPY NEW YEAR Sir. Like the video with great information too. Peace vf 😀😀😀😀
Awesome video. I had this idea without knowing it was an actual thing. I'd love to see you revisit the 1kW wind turbine with this design.
glad your back, robert ! ❤
cheers mate
@ThinkingandTinkering did you see the new stuff on quantum delocalization energy? they use graphene, nanopore clay, and water it's in new scientist magazine. it reminded me of your graphrne SWAG generator
ever closer to finally learning enough to make those dyno brakes for my trike
thanks for continuing to educate me and share with us your work
awesome mate - and cheers
Awesome 🎉
Nice generator ,I trying to make small windmill out of paint brush roller,connecting coils from broken led bulbs inside ,plus neodium magnets,hopefully will be done one day😅,thanks
stick at it mate - that's what gets it done
yes robert has in fact made an axial flux generator here but his definition does not care about flux direction. However since the axial flux at the magnet starts axial but soon curves to circumferencial as it trys to hop to an adjacent magnet so there is some circumferencial flux. Now to generate we need a wire at right angles to a circumference and yes his V winding does have a component at rightangles to the circumference so yes he will get some voltage from the circumferencial flux as well as from the radial flux. How to measure the relative contributions of voltage between axial and radial fluxes? It is not
possible with his flat coils as both axial and circumferential voltages are in phase. You would need a small short solenoid with a circumferencial axis to detect only the circumferential component and a similar small short solenoid with a radial axis to detect the axial component. I am guessing that the axial voltage will be greater than the circumferencial voltage with his coils but i accept that there is a real circumferencial contribution with his coils.
cheers mate
Sandwiching 1 set of rotating magnets with 2 sets of coils is probably a much better generator design than sandwiching 1 set of coils with 2 sets of rotating magnets because it should be much less mass and therefore should do better starting at low wind speeds. Excited to see it in use on a wind turbine!
However, I am curious if the magnetic field strength and direction passing through the coils will be diminished vs the other design. 2 sets of magnets sandwiching the coils should have a very strong, single direction magnetic field between the 2 sets of magnets.
Looks great and should make a great generator 👍
cheers mate
Robert, have you come across Kriss Harbours channel? he builds and installs small hydo generator system, I enjoy watching you both, equally passionate about 2 sides of a similar subject. your work of wind generators and efficiency and Kris's feeding the grid semm complimentary and after the challenges of 2024 you had it may give you another project with a like minded youtuber.
great to have you still presenting real passion on the subject
I have seen his channel mate the thing he did on the bell siphon was awesome
Nice build.
cheers mate
Love the video and love your channel. I always learn a ton watching your videos.
In the future could you put a link to your other videos that tou reference in the description? It would make it much easier for people like me to find them.
Done!fair comment mate - will do
You should sell some DIY science kits online so we can assemble your projects. You could include a video.
New take on a needle bearing.. nice!
cheers mate
Hello Robert I wanted to thank you for helping people with knowledge and understanding and I love watching and learning from you,as a Christian witness and testimony I wanted you you to know that Patti"s spirit is still alive and with Christ at this time of the unveiling the dead in Christ rise first in the second coming which is any time soon now the promises of God and Christ are very real and I promise you good sir you will see Patti again when you cross over and she will be in her glory as promised by our Lord...hold strong Robert it truly is a bumpy ride but we will all be in bliss at the end ...peace to you and may the Lord bless you for helping those who don't understand...God Bless You Robert
Thank you matr and thank you for taking the time to say that - God bless you
Excellent... Thank you.
👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
cheers mate
Looks good! I wonder about the two coils cancelling. If they do, wouldn't flipping the wires on one cause them to add coherently? Might actually be more efficient than separately rectifying each. Just a thought; it's your experiment.
that is a really good thought mate - thank you for suggesting it - i will take you up on that - awesome post mate
I'm a bit confused. What you've built here appears to be an axial flux motor. As far as I can tell, a circumferential flux motor is supposed to have windings in the shape of a toroidal solenoid, with the rotor magnets passing through it. I can't see a solenoid here anywhere.
axial flux attempts to surround the coil with a magnetic field Circumferential flux attempts to surround the magnetic field with a coil- a solenoid is the most effective way of doing this but with a rotor centrally placed you can't do that - so you have to try a different geometry to get the same effect
@@ThinkingandTinkering I can't make any sense of that. The distinction between radial, axial and circumferential flux is the direction of the flux as it passes between the rotor and the stator. It has nothing to do with what's surrounding what. I can't see how your design isn't just an axial flux motor with a slightly unusual way of doing the windings.
You say it can't be done with a solenoid, but Motion Robotics claim to have found a way. They don't go into details on their web site, but I suspect they have a serpentine winding wrapped around the toroid, leaving a slot for the rotor to pass through. You've got a serpentine winding, but it's completely flattened out so there's no flux at all in the circumferential direction.
@@gcewing I can't help it if you can't make sense of it mate - it's pretty straight forward - however what i suspect is what you mean is you think I am wrong. I don't mind you thinking I am wrong mate. However, it also means we are going to have to agree to disagree
Imo, but i'm just a moron...also for me i regard this as axial. Any how what counts is that it works. That looks fine 👍. If i live long emough i'll try it out for charging batteries with wind or hydro or steam power. Probably not with a printer.
Althoug i recognize the handyness ! 😊,Strange i have to think of a movie " you say bannana, i say banana". Whatever, if you like the tast 👍. Thanks Robert ! Thanks gcewing! Have a nice evening 💫🌠🍀🍀👋
How interesting, the photo showing the old generator @ 1:15 is a exact copy ( slight difference in configuration) of ones found in antique electric shock medical devices from the 1880's -1920's, a quack cure. These were never thrown out because it's so much fun shocking friends, as a result there are plenty of them still about for as little as £40 on ebay, amazing these can be bought for so little.
that is amazing - i might buy one! - cheers mate
@@ThinkingandTinkering Your welcome, I've owned one for years, great fun.
Hi Rob, love your channel, really enjoyable and instructive. Have you at all seen the work of Jean Louis Naudin. All the best.
Hi Robert. Maybe you could use the 2623 printed bearing on the bottom for the wind mill? But no the needle bearing has much less resistance so never mind :)... But can't wait for the wind mill I will definitely build one. Thanks for the great video and the design files!
cheers mate
Just started watching your videos. Great stuff, very educational. ..what i wonder tho is, whats the current on that thing ?
nicely done as always
Thanks for sharing your knowledge
cheers mate
I saw a patent once showed a method of picking up any metal as if magnetically. A legitimate paatent. I recall it spoke of the Biot-Savart effect or law or something like that.
HAWT would do great with this! And since it's so light, would a little gearing to get it to spin faster be possible? Then that would generate higher voltages, right? You truly inspire me to get a 3D printer every day 😅
I think you are psot on there mate
another great video
cheers mate
A few weeks ago I saw a short video that had an armature with perm magnets with loops of copper tubing around it. The tube had water and as the armature rotated the water got hot. Does that actually work. Hand crank water heaters that have a belt drive pump could create hot water for 3rd world and off grid uses.
quickly rotating magnets under a copper plate will cause the plate to heat - but you need to spin them quickly
There are videos on RUclips showing people melt metal by spinning magnets next to the metal. Cody's Lab is one channel with this type of video.
I'm pretty sure there are less expensive contraptions one could make to heat water using human power.
Love it! Thanks Rob. Tie it to a cat. 😂
lololol
Hey, love the video. I was wondering if you have noticed the echo in your room though. If you would just hang up a blanket or something it would help that out.
I am not hanging up blankets mate
@@ThinkingandTinkering The echo does make it harder to understand you. It would be nice if there were an easy way to reduce the echo. I'll still watch either way.
@@ThinkingandTinkering There was a huge underground physics lab at my university. (I was amazed to learn this giant room was under an area where I had walked many times.) The giant room had a horrible echo. Someone good with the physics of sound figured out if they added a couple of sound absorbers at key locations, it would cut the echo way down. It worked really well. You probably don't need to hang a blanket but there might be some small adjustment which would reduce the echo. Again, not a big deal but it would be easier to understand you with less of an echo.
@@ddegn that's a good suggestion mate - i will look into it
@@ThinkingandTinkering fair enough. And yeah it’s not a huge deal. Might be able to find a mic that can automatically reduce echo as well. Or not, I will still love your videos lol.
What about making those spirals in 3D form not 2D zig zag? Including third one around the wheel ... Like a spring?
good thought mate - thanks for sharing
@@ThinkingandTinkering Where can I PM you sir? I have idea in my mind for more then 25 years and would like to share with someone with practical knowledge in physics.
What your model reminds me of is a Tesla Turbine more than anything else. I wouldn't be surprised if Nikola didn't play around with winding that type of generator at some point in his life.
yeah i suppose it does nicely noticed mate
You'll be sticking one of these in a Delorean next!
lol
I was surprised by your implementation - based on the introduction, i was expecting a ring coil formed by solenoids bent into an arc - maybe T-shape spokes on a wheel with each crossbar (shaped for the outer circle) having a solenoid on each side. When you put up the solenoid slide, I pictured the flux going round the circumference of the circle...
really/ - I always aim for simplicity, ease of build and ease of replication mate
Now you just need to connect the flux capacitor in parallel with the rectifier and...
Shazaamm!!!.... there you have it:
Free energy!!! 😅😅😅
lol
I did not understand the part in which it is argued that on each side of a "V" the currents oppose and cancel ... if each side of the "V" at the same time is being through a magnet of *opposite* polarity but in the opposite direction of the coil for being inverted in the direction then would be *added* nor "subtracted" ....
Are the amps determined by the size of the magnets, the thickness of the conductor coils or the speed of the rotation? 22v x ?amps = watts.
This is multifactorial. The Magnetic flux strength, coil resistance, and Mechanical Input Horsepower will be limitations to the amps that a motor can output. Additionally the load on the generator will also contribute. A generator that has no connected load, doesn't actually have any amps to output. If you put a 1000 watt load on a Generator designed to handle 100 watts, then the coils will heat up and melt the insulation. But theoretically you could "provide" the input power to make a 100 watt generator output much higher... at the risk of melting the insides. The faster you spin the shaft, the higher the voltage for common designs. So, you can spin it faster, and get more power out of it. You would then use electronics to regulate and adjust the voltage to some desired amount such as 12vdc or whatever.
no mate - i did a video called what the hell are amps - you might want to check that out
Thanks Robert, facinating video, how would you do the switching to use it as a motor?
basically add commutation mate
@ThinkingandTinkering there's a rabbit hole 😳. Thanks Robert👍
First things that come to my mind;
- we can stack mulitple stages on each other.
- as mentioned, magnetic bearing, but lately i'm thinking about a twist to it;
What You always showed us, was either to opposing ring magnets with a shaft and bearing in a center or a horizontal setup, where one end is resting on something. What if we just "hang" the rotary part with the property of the pushing / pulling (this case holding power) of that magnet? Let's say, we have the stacked idea, where the rotors are have a common - non magnetic - shaft without the bearings in a vertical config and we (e.x.) glue a simple screw at the top, the pin facing upward. Ex. this (shaft+magnets+the disks=rotor) weights a 9gram (just made up values) and we have a magnet above this that can hang a like 9 gram of weight. This config there is truly only one single point of contact that from one perspecive - without the bearings - has almost zero friction - and playing with the weight of the rotors - that as a whole are acting in this case as a flywheel also by themselves bythaway...-
So, by playing the rotors overall weight, with this hanging method i belive we could truly achiveing true passive magnetic levitating. What could be a help fpr this - if playing with weight does not achive it - i have qnother idea as using 2 more magnets at the bottom of the shaft. One is a common button like, glued on the bottom of the shaft with a screw glued to it - this time, pointing downward, and the other one is a ringmagnet and it is below/aroumd at the tip of the screw. The bottom magnets are facing opposite to repell. In this case, as if the pushing or holding force of the bottom, ring magnet overcomes the weight of the rotor, playing with the vertical position of the top, hanging magnet (to find a sweet spot, where the magnetic force only would hold the rotor in a stable point) could create a point of - i guess - true, and passively levitated rotor. Dumb?
Would be better tu use the "mighty wind turbine" coils setup over serpentine coils?
I mean yes, more work - still dead easy - and additional materials, but as far as i understand, that configuration maxes out the useful contact area between the magnets and the coil.
do you know mate - you really should just try building some of your ideas it says so much more and answers so many more questions
What if you wrapped the coils from top to bottom going around the housing in a three D serpentine coil? So the serpentine coil Cups the top and bottom over the edge sort of I guess? Though I wonder if you would have to use a large doughnut magnet if the little magnets didn't work?
good idea mate thanks for sharing
Great job 😎👍 any chance you could put a little 2xAA battery and motor on it to see what readings that rpm would give you?
I will need to put some kind of commutation in there too mate
@@ThinkingandTinkering that would be awesome! Where you were talking about joining the coils would cancel each other out, if they were connected in series would they cancel out too? If you offset the coils so that they form an X pattern along the magnet path, would that stop them from cancelling out and give you a smoother 2 phase output?
@@gerryplayz4532 No offset required. Series or parallel would both be OK. If they cancel, just reverse the connections to one of the coils.
Curious if you could create multiple layers of magnets and coils into about 10 layers of coils and 9 layers of magnets would there be any interferences or would it magnify the power by multiples of X or by 10???
it won't magnify the power mate - the power comes from the input - it depends on what you are driving it with
@@ThinkingandTinkering So for example the wind is your power, you need a bigger sail to capture the wind rather than more layers of coils?? What if you do both, bigger sail AND more coils??
@@troywhite6039 exactly - and if you did that you would get more power
It would be interesting to test using PCBs for the "coil" section for fast prototyping using something like PCBway (sponsorship opportunity for RUclips creators)
i like that suggestion mate - thank you for sharing it
I like that this is something that can be made entirely at home.
Would it work by stacking more and more of the generator on top of each other? Fascinating project
simple answer - yes
What would happen if you made the serpentine coil larger and folded the tips around the outer circumference??
i don't know - give it a go and see
Could you explain the Raxial Dark matter motor from Koenigsegg?
Love your videos 😀
cheers mate - it's described as a combination between axial flux and radial flux - which is pretty much what a circumferential flux motor is if you think about it
@ThinkingandTinkering thanks! That's what I figured as well.
Love how this motor doesn't need any active cooling, that would make it lighter, more efficient, and more reliable than most motors out there.
Nice.
Thank you! Cheers!
I built model generators like this years ago. Didn't know the configuration had this name! I remember thinking I wanted to surround the magnets with as much wire as possible but the toroid like geometry was too difficult to achieve at the time.
I'm sure I mentioned the Motor Generator years ago when you started 3D printing. Glad to see it's finally done. Lol. Great stuff
Nice one mate - well much easier to build these days for sure
Bloody ell thas gone grey !
yep - years will do that to everybody mate lol
It's funny when you make a point of saying that generators and motors are the same thing, before and after saying you prefef to make generators. X'D I have a basic degree in electromechanics, including analog and digital electronics and complex impedance. I understood these things intuitively as a child, playing with slot car racers, volt meters, electronics kits, etc. It's very much the same principles behind a speaker and a microphone, which we likewise dismantled and played with as kids. You can use electricity sent into a coil to create a magnetic field that moves other bits of magnets or certain metals like iron or steel. And likewise, you can move magets around bits of wires to make electricity. And either way, you can add bits to either end to physically move something, be it something like a speaker, microphone, solenoid, motor, radial, axial, stepper, flux, circumferential, flywheel, etc, or you can shape the field with bits of metal or dynamically changing positions of magnets, or you can control and shape the electdic circuit to modify inputs or outputs, like rectifiers and filters on a generator or transformer output, or filters, equalizers and amplifiers on a mic input or output, or motor control on a stepper motor input, etc. Which brings me to an understanding that motors and generators, like motors and speakers or microphones and generators, while operating on the same fundamental physical forces of electromagnetism, are quite different once you move beyond the most trivial use cases, necessarily so, to manage the peculiarities and complexities that arise when trying to improve sound fidelity or generator efficiency or motor power and so on. However, understanding this crossover area based upon fundamentals, might give people inspiration for new ideas. Like harnessing the noise of the city to drive a speaker used to oscillate a solenoid, sent to a flywheel by a linear drive, differential, flywheel, with an output/work drive side, or battery for excess kinetic energy, etc. It may not even be practical, just a Rube Goldberg machine, but fun and weird and awesome all the same.
My habit is try and draw parallels rather than differences - i think it helps understanding - of course in actual build the requirements of the geometry of what you want to do change the instances of how you implement the forces you are playing with.
Would it be possible to make a magnetic gear out of this, where the two stators have different pole counts and the rotor has the appropriate flux paths between them? The idea being to avoid mechanical losses in gears.
Like the pseudo-direct-drive from Magnomatics, but without the magnets, and the rotor is just a shaft with flux-path iron in it.
I would imagine so
Very interesting - but what are the cons? turbulent revolution at high speed? magnets displacement can induce disturbance?
Would have liked to see it run.
Absolutely beautiful. Thankyou Robert for the upload!!!
Glad you enjoyed it
Apologies if I missed something, but you have two fixed star coils and a floating magnetic rotor. If the power to each star coil is out of phase, could you apply power to both coils to make the rotor spin?
that's an interesting though - i will follow up on that mate - cheers
Since the magnetic field goes all the way around could you make the legs of the star long enough to wraparound to the other side and space the coil arms so the norths on 2 adjacent magnets boost each other instead of a N & S on opposite sides cancelling out? Hope I've described that well enough it makes sense in what I mean, not sure if it would make sense scientifically.
worth a try mate
Short of reversing the position of the coils and magnets, I cannot understand how this is any different than an axial generator. The magnetic flux that crosses the coils is still oriented axially.
The difference between axial and circumferential flux - axial flux attempts to surround a coil wire with a magnetic field - circumferential flux attempts to surround the magnetic field with a coil of wire - that's it really
@ThinkingandTinkering Fair enough
I am really intrigued b y your serpentine coils, have you ever tried using a serpentine coil to make a solid state magnetic stirrer or would it be more accurate to call it a motorless magnetic stirrer?? idk but i have been trying to find a budget friendly way to make a magnetic stirrer and yes i am aware of the many build out there that use magnets and cpu fans and have even used one i just like the idea of being able to produce myself that other companies actually pay thousands of dollars for
I have never tried mate - maybe i should
I may be missing something but part of my mind is questioning ( although not answering ) if you could you use a, sort of, inverted crab claw cage, ( the claws facing away from each other rather than towards each other ) to redirect the non coil-surrounded parts of the magnetic field to where the coil is?
I'm guessing I'm missing something, or people far smarter than me would have already done something similar.
it's a good idea mate but it kind of goes against the simpleness of construction and would mean adding a weight of steel to do it - you might end up lowering the power density
low density negligeable loss, lightweight. very nice. genius realy.
Wow, thanks!
Can you explain why you put a metal chunk on the bottom of the contraption ? For axle friction reduction ?
exactly - a bit of glass would be better
Would be interesting to put this one in the base of a Ugrinski!
I absolutely agree with you there mate
@ThinkingandTinkering This spring I want to put one up inside the tower behind my house. It's 50' (about 15m) high. I can put it most of the way up inside the triangular structure. I really want to play.
I learned so much from this remarkeable man a first class digital mentor indeed...contribution to humanity beyond marvelous bless your soul💙😉
oh wow mate - thank you so much for saying that
Just for peace of mind. On you follow up Video could you include at least a pencil sketch of what the generator would look like with the additional coil you mention in moment 9 minutes in? I am intrested in both building the unit you show and then going back and building a second unit that has the mentioned additional coil.
The Weather here is -7 degrees at dawn. The digging of the work shops' foundation has pretty much come to a halt. I'm doing something that's never been done before in the area of concrete pouring and I can't show the progress until it's done, and hand digging a modified foundation that is 41.3' by 90' is taking it's own sweet time.
good thought mate and you can't really put concrete down in those temps I know there are additives but they are not brilliant - so you just have to take the time it needs i am afraid
That's a lot of hand digging!
@@andrewsackville-west1609 The digging the bulk of it is the easy part, It's the after dark scraping with a hoe and a Pick to get everything level (That last 2% of the dig when you are trying to get less than an inch of deviations), and when the dirt here is rock hard. The foundation perimeter will be Hyper-Adobe (tinyshiney Home You tubes) But in order to do that you need to put down an outer rim of corrugated sheet metal deep enough that the rodents don't dig under the foundation and then enter the shop space, and for that I will need to rent a trench digger + a back hoe to move all the dirt I threw out of the foundation pit and then a vibrating dirt flattener and that will need a water cube to soften the dirt in the spring.
Did I mention that I don't have a wheel barrow so you are walking each shovel full to outside of the foundation pit. Funding for additional tools in that category have been shifted to more winter power for the off grid system.
(In all those details that I've shared I've still not given you the WHY this will be something worthy of both trying and set a new standard for wood working shop builds. And The Video will either be worth copping or a grab some popcorn failure.)
@@FuhrChris I think we can come up with some ways to make it more difficult. Have you considered swapping a digging stick for your space? 😉
In all seriousness, I appreciate the detail. Sounds like fun! I'm solo building a 2000sq ft house, myself. I know all about the balance of equipment vs labor vs budget.... Good luck!
@@andrewsackville-west1609 You live in a Country that from the middle it's about 75 miles to coast from any point.
I live in a State that everybody forgets exists, (Not even the 4th largest) and for me it's 80 miles to the nearest Grocery store. It would be 100 miles to go to where you can rent the back hoe for construction. Thus you fall back on just making small Daily progressions with the tools you have. (Mind you with the exception of building construction tools that arrive on a trailer, I have 40 years worth of tool collecting. I have tools that most people can't even tell you what they do let alone what there name is.) In fact it's said that when "Bob Vela" dies he wants to come to my place.
This is why I contact you. I have both the Tools, the Space, the Winds, the Sun Shine, the Time, and a community college with Engineering Students to take some of your ideas to the long term test bed levels. Ooo and I was in the composites department at Boeing.
Actually 1. I'm considering both adding to the West side (2) 100' foundation runs going South so that I can begin making a central Court yarded area much like the Greeks would have, thus I could be outside and yet out of the Winds which are predominant after 10AM. 2. Adding at least one Geo tube which will be 150 long and 10 feet down. (I found a calculator for Geo heating for Greenhouses) and planning on making the South Wall a Black insulated wall with a clear membrane series and push the heat back down into an insulated tube that would go over to the Trailer. Resale of the property value will go up when you can say "You will have zero heating and cooling costs for life!" For the East Wall of a Court yard I'm thinking of making one of your wind Walls on the property fence line. I could one day get around to making a 6' stone wall (Trust me we have too many stones just laying around the country side here) that would be topped off with a Wind Wall. (This would be after I both build the West section of the Court yard and then use a smoke pot to see where the winds go as they cross the East side of where a court yard wall would be?)
IE there is NOTHING to do out here but build, or shoot an Elk for Trespassing.
On the issue of making it truly more difficult. When it's too cold you Pee on the area you want to scrape down as final working it down to laser level, then quickly scrape it with a flat shovel. (I'm trying to dig down an area that the mice are getting in the Trailer to the point where I can place a wall of corrugated sheet metal, and then back fill both sides with gravel.) So you have to climb through the Solar panels and stand on top of the Trailer hitch to get to the target area. Then quickly get down onto your hands and knees and use a hand trowel to stab at the frozen ground as it turns to mud. (If it was easier to get water from the well and wood fired heat about 5 gallons of water and then poor it over the area that needs a steel rodent barrier (Like desperately needed it yesterday!). So the actual easiest answer is oddly "Drink more instant coooooffffffeeeeeee, do we have any of that instant espresso left? Ya, with that I could rap up this dig TODAY!"
Probably because I'm a little slow, but I don't see why this is much different than an axial flux. Is it different because in an axial flux, you typically have a disk of coils between 2 disks of magnets and this puts a disk of magnets between 2 disks of coils? I'll have to watch it a few more times to process your explanation. LOL
No it is not different from an axial motor as it is an axial motor.
What they have outlined on their page is nothing like what he built.
The difference between axial and circumferential flux - axial flux attempts to surround a coil wire with a magnetic field - circumferential flux attempts to surround the magnetic field with a coil of wire - that's it really
be careful with you comments mate - this is a moderated board - moderated by me. If I feel you overstep the mark I will block you from commenting and remove your comments. I have already replied to your comment in regards of this - confine yourself to that - I do not allow board gurus to dominate here
@@ThinkingandTinkering You may do as you wish on your own channel and I fully support that!
I just work with motors myself and we generally think of the flux in a motor as being orientated along the principle axis of the system. A spinning top has a main axis, and out from that a radius. The circumference is usually also well defined. A field and torque that is produced along the circumference direction would give the most efficient motor as there is no or little loss vector. The field set up in for example a radial flux motor does by itself not deliver torque, but the imbalance in n/s field experienced by the rotors magnets will create a net torque and this torques vector along the circumference "direction" accelerates the rotor. The less we try and pull the rotor in other directions than the desired, the more efficient the motor. I would very much like to see more detailed coil drawings from Motion Robotics.
@@1kreature yes I would like to see that too - but you do have to remember what I did isn't a motor - although I do say they are fundamentally the same machine that is only a teaching aid - a box to put things in to help other have a framework to conceptualize - the actual implementation is always going to be different based on use case. For my interest I want a perpendicular field to bisect a coil at as close to 90 degrees as i can get given the constraints of the build - also given this kind of motor is basically a linear solenoid curled round to circle - i don't think I did so badly lol
Would it do any good to add a second ring of magnets inside the first? Two (or more) concentric rings, instead of just the one?
i suppose you could do - not sure why you wouldn't just use bigger or shaped magnets though
Would you need to gear eg small on the generator shaft from big on the turbine shaft, to give more revs etc.?
Gaz Yorkshire
i wouldn't have thought so mate - but it all really depends on your final use case
@@ThinkingandTinkering Cheers, just thought of torque over revs, as the commercial wind turbines are geared, ok it's on a larger scale etc.
Thanks
Gaz Yorkshire.
@@Gazr965 Oh yeah - if you made one that size you would have to think about gearing
@@ThinkingandTinkering Yes I saw one made from a 200 litre oil drum Savonius type and the guy that made that had a belt and pulley arrangement to turn an alternator, don't know what ratio he used for that though.
Gaz
great stuff.
Did you have some kinda itch at the start of the video, right there at your right ear?
What a timing.
0:08 to 0:10
No way that was an itch. It is a symbol.
Isn't it?
It's a tell of mine mate - i tend to do that when I am thinking
@@ThinkingandTinkering a tell of yours.....
I guessed so.
Sorry, i know we are only joking.
You and i.
BUT, there are symbols still in use up to this day which look like the one you used.
I can show you a lot of videos in which certain people, for example Pierce Morgan, or Johnny Carson, or other such talking heads, they all present a symbol.
They all seem to have an itch at a certain point in the conversation, and they always (or most of em) do the same thing.
They rub their Nose.
But, there are slight alterations to the symbol.
Nevertheless, if you know a bit about symbolism, then it becomes undeniable that certain symbols are used up to this day in certain circumstances.
Circumstances which would make you think i am a tinhat.
Nevertheless, i have plenty of videos that need to be explained before one can claim i am a tinhat.
Your symbolism, yeah, i understand it is a joke. And, i was triggered by timing.
But the professionals on TV use such symbols.
Sure, i may be triggered at the wrong moment, but i have stored plenty of it to show anyone with doubt that it is not just my imagination.
It is as clear as day, a symbol to tell certain other people that what they will say next is rubbish.
Or at least that is the way i interpret the symbol.
Again: People like Pierce Morgan and other TV personalities have used all kinds of symbols.
Rubbing their cheek, their nose, a cough at a certain moment.
If this was just once, with just one guy, with just one kinda story, then you would not have been confronted with this book.
BUT it is countless times, with influencial people on the Telly.
People with a bit of power, who show their face on the TV daily.
Those people use the symbolism.
And then they deny it and tell you that you should wear a tinhat.
Meanwhile rubbing their nose, scratching their balls or any of such.
What about making a bigger serpentine coil the overlaps the circumference of frame?
good idea mate
Another great feast for thought. Do you by chance have a good source for magnet wire?
no mate i just get it from the first UK store i come across on a websearch
Do you use a pin to attach the magnet disk to the axil or are you spinning the coil and the axil is connected to those. Or is it a glued connection. I guess it doesn't matter.
it's just glued mate as this is a very early prototype to show the idea
Thank you very much. I'm going to try it...
go for it mate - the wire was 1,000 turns per coil of 0.2mm CSA
Great stuff. I am looking for a flux capacitor as I want to go back to the past, I am in the future and I don't like it. Where do I get one?
lol
Hi Robert
Is the star coil configuration as efficient as winding separate coils, and then solder them together?
IE: If running at the same RMP, would the separate coil configuration create higher voltage at lower RPM than the star coil configuration?
Not really - it's just much much easier to make
@@ThinkingandTinkering
Thank you Robert👍👍
Hi Robert could you explain to me the Edison nickel iron battery please and how to make them.
That's 11V at whatever speed it was spinning. If you had measured the frequency, you could calculate the speed without any extra sensors.
You have 9 "wiggles" in each coil, and 18 magnets in the rotor. This does maximize the voltage, but it also maximizes the torque ripple. It doesn't seem very easy to change this into a 3-phase generator; if you'd use 3 separate stacked coils, phase shifted, with 2 magnetic rotors (so stator-rotor-stator-rotor-stator), the center coil would get a significantly different magnetic field compared to the outer 2.
And most importantly, measuring the voltage only tells us that the voltage is no so low as to be unusable. Unless you also measure the (short-circuit) current, resistance and inductance of the coil, and the efficiency, it's meaningless.
I expect the inductance to be relatively high, as this is basically an air coil with a rather large diameter and quite a few windings. The resistance will also be quite significant, as this seems like a very long and thin wire.
this is a generator configuration mate - I thought torque ripple was confined to motors? It would also be stunningly easy to make this 3 phase - see the video i did on 3 phase serpentine coils. As for measuring amps - no point as there is no power input that can be quantified - i just flicked it to spin to show it did output which is all i was concerned with for this simple demo of what a circumferential generator is. To be honest I am not sure you got the point of the video
Are you going to stack 'em high?
and why not lol
Hello Robert, you are talking about 11V, but what is the current at which speed?
Can't wait to see the results with a wind turbine attached. Also, as you say, a generator and a motor are almost the same except for their applied operation. It would be neat to explore the power production possibilities. Again, thanks for keeping thinking alive!
cheers mate
Why not provide the voltage with different loads? Why just provide open circuit voltage?
because it's not finished
Clear as mud😢 just looks like an axial flux generator
With axial flux you are trying to surround the coil with a magnetic field with circumferential flux yo are trying to surround the magnetic field with a coil of wire
@ThinkingandTinkering that is not what you showed
@@CraigLandsberg-lk1ep I don't want to be rude here mate but did you actually watch the video? You are quite right that's not what I showed - but i also gave an explanation of why what I made was different to what i talked about - that's an important difference because there is always a difference between an idea of we think will work and what actually work in the real world when you come to build it - the real world has a nasty habit of getting in the way when we turn ideas into reality
Nope I belive you made an axial generator with 2 windings,
You know there is a sort of toy done with coil and battery and magnets, take that as base.
you attach the magnets to the battery, and let it run inside the coil and it will move.
If you get an outer ring of a planetary reduction and put magnets onto it ,only one planet gear and then roll solenoid around the ring leaving spaces to hold the ring and the contacts patch to the single planet, that's a circunferential flux generator