Winchester Longbeard XR vs. BOSS Tom TSS | Ballistics Gel & Pattern Test For Lead & Tungsten
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- This is a ballistics gel and pattern test of two of the best turkey hunting loads on the market, the BOSS Tom tungsten TSS and the Winchester Longbeard XR copper plated lead. These high-performance shotgun shells both provide exceptional pattern density at long range and deep penetration in the ballistics gel.
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In this video I test:
• BOSS Tom #9 shot, 12 gauge, 3", 1150 fps, 2.0 oz, copper plated 18 g/cc tungsten
• Winchester Long Beard XR #6 shot, 12 gauge, 3", 1200 fps, 1.75 oz, copper plated lead
The BOSS Tom is an outstanding tungsten load that is of the same high quality but cheaper in price compared to APEX, Federal TSS, HEVI-Shot, etc. The Winchester Longbeard XR is the best lead load I have yet to find and performs exceptionally well in all shot sizes. The higher density of the tungsten shot and quality of the BOSS load predictably perform better than the lead in this experiment. BOSS provided the TSS shells tested in this video at my request, thanks to them for their support.
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Excellent job George! Keep it up. These videos are extremely helpful head to head comparisons.
Thanks so much!
I received a box of Winchester tungsten #4 some years back and shot 2 geese with them. The geese folded like a dove catching a load of #8 at 20 yards, no fluttering down and no kicking on their back, just stone dead. And the geese were 40 yards away. Most of the pellets that hit the breast penetrated completely with only a few stuck just beneath the skin on the exit side. Found 1 pellet in the meat and it had penetrated the keel of the breast. Wing bones broken in several places. I skinned out the necks and they were just shredded and it appeared the bulk of the pellets hit the head and neck. They did better than any size steel shot I have ever shot a goose with by far.
Wow, sounds like it was totally devastating.
1.5 oz BBs do the same
You are really giving us some great information on shotgun patterning with tss and lead, the penetration testing is a great addition too 👍
Thanks so much!
The gel penetration tests are great. Really well done videos. Thank you
Thank you so much!
Thank you for this data and all the counting!
You are so welcome! Thanks!
I have really enjoyed your videos. Very informative!
Thank you so much!
%50 of the lead pellets reached target vs %40 of the tungstan pellets
Yes. Though I did learn later that the choke is specifically crafted for the Longbeard shell and it may not just be a matter of constriction, that choke certain design elements such as notched rings and porting crafted just like this lead load to ensure optimal performance. I am going to try and use a different choke for future tss testing with these loads to see if makes any significant difference. But it is also the best lead load on the market.
Nice video.. But I'll stick to turkey hunting using my Remington SP 10 Ga shooting Federal Grand Slams in #'5's through my original Primos Jelly Head choke tube.. It's absolutely lights out devastating on turkeys..
Nice, thank you!
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Thanks.. I've been a member of the NWTF for over 20 years & I enjoy all these videos on turkey hunting guns & shotgun shells.. Every spring gobbler season here in PA my Remington SP10 Ga shooting Federal Grand Slams in #5's through my original Primos Jelly Head Choke tube has been my go to setup for turkey hunting..
Dynamite patterns tests here man!
Thanks so much!
I was hoping someone would test the Boss Turkey ammo. I asked Boss to post some testing of their own.
Thanks David! I've been waiting for awhile to be able to do it. I'm very happy with the results myself.
#5 shoots the best out of my gun an for me it's the best of both worlds 4s vs 6s an the 3.5s are brutal so I'm using the 3s an still killing turkeys at 40 yards all day long no problem
Thanks, yea if given the option, I would use the #5s also!
For penetration tests, I use 1/4" plywood. If pellets penetrate the plywood completely, I count it a adequate to kill a turkey. I have found nothing that works better than #6 shot. At any range I consider ethical for _my gun and loads_ , #6 gives fatal penetration. Since there are more 6s in a shell than 5s, and more 6s on target than 5s, I always get #6 shells when I can find them. Around here, that's tough. Lots of 5s, not many 6s.
Next, I will load some with 7 1/2 shot and see what it does. Many years ago, 7 1/2 was considered the load to use for turkeys. Of course, no one was trying to shoot 70 yards.
Totally agree. In fact, I have some future videos coming along those lines.
Awesome Video. Of ALL THE TSS LOADS you’ve shot / patterned, which is your favorite or had the best patterns ?
Next Thursday that video will air! Tested 7 TSS loads.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I can’t wait to see what you’ve got Cooking 🧑🍳 up for us.
Thanks for the video! Curious if an XR load in 9 (do they make it in 9?) would yield better results for Winchester? As the test goes, the XR load put 50%+ of the pellet count in the circle with Boss rolling at 40%. Either way the turkey is taking a dirt nap.
Thanks! XR maxes out at #6, that is the smallest shot size. In lead, I wouldn't go any smaller than 7 shot even if it was available because you just aren't going to retain as much energy at range. I will say, I don't see BOSS being at 40% as a negative. I like the margin it provides. If it's too tight it because easier to miss, especially at closer range. And you can't kill a bird any deader than those 290 pellets at 10 inches.
2 ounces of lead would be WAAAAY more= 1174 pellets of lead 9's compared to only 724 TSS pellets of the SAME SIZE! Apples to Apples people!!! ANY size lead pellet will have more pellets to the ounce than ANY These guys miss the entire point. The load is ALL travelling the SAME SPEED. 1200 fps for 2 ozs. is 1200 fps for 2 ozs.You're NEVER gaining any more payload energy downrange because you never increased speed nor weight. The individual pellets' effect AFTER IMPACT is the only difference. What breaks his neck is the kinetic energy impacted by the total volume. Don't be fools!
TSS is definitely DEADLY
It's unbelievable how good it is compared to lead. And this was last year's lesser TSS load through a less than ideal choke.
There is 1 more percentage calculation that needs to be made, percentage of shot that hit vs number of shot in each shell. Without doing the math personally, just by eye balling the numbers i can see a drastic number hit the 10 inch target more with the LB vs tungsten. Probably in the neiborhood of at least better than 50% of shot hit the 10 inch circle with LB vs about 30 to 35% with the tungsten. But I would really like to see your conclusive results in that aspect. For me I hunt for the meat of the turkey & I just can't get past the reality of im on occasion picking 1, maybe 2 #4 shot pellets out of a breast very rarely. But I know for fact just by percentage of the amount of shot alone there will be a greater number of #9 shot make it to the breast regardless of shot placement potentially ruining what we all are hunting for ultimately that delicious wild turkey meat. I just can't get past that reality, for that reason alone I am sticking with & have stuck with the LB XR #4, I'm not down playing anyone's choice one way or the other this is just where I stand with the whole led vs tungsten debate. But I do appreciate your in depth approach & attention to detail, very much look forward to your future video's bud. Have a great day an awesome season & God Bless you brother!
Hey thanks so much, really appreciate it. I totally get where you are coming from and wouldn't even try to sway you otherwise. I'm going to try the Tungsten this season and see how it turns out. I've been using Long Beard #6 and have scarcely noticed a pellet in the breast meat. I'll see if I can tell a difference.
What type of gel do you use ? 10% or 20% ? Keep up the good work.
10% Thanks so much!
I think tss #8 would pretty much be all you’d need for anything with wings or all upland game for that matter…
It will certainly do the job!
Hey George! Unfortunately, I live in the liberal state of NY and talks of banning lead ammo have started over here. Would love to get your opinion on it and if you think it could even be possible to do. Totally insane in my opinion but would love to hear what you think. Thanks!
I think the days are coming that they ban lead nationally. Whethet there is any reason or not. Might be 10 years or more, but I think it's only a matter of time. Bismuth and tungsten will likely become our only fair options. People are crazy.
How can we send you Targets or other items you may need?
I appreciate the support! The best way really is to support the channel on Patreon. I use every penny for targets, paper, and supplies for videos. www.patreon.com/TheNewHuntersGuide every bit makes a difference!
Should have used long beard #4
So you'd trade pattern density for ballistics energy?
@@TheNewHuntersGuide the #4s you shot in your other video looked pretty dense to me
@@hoss6981 They are, you couldn't go wrong with either one really. But the #4s have 30% less pellets in a 10" circle than the #6s. So if I tested the #4 vs the TSS, they would have been hopelessly outmatch.
Seems like the lead 4s have almost the same penetration as the tss 9s
@@hoss6981 Yup. But the TSS 9s will go further because they have less drag being smaller pellets with higher density. And there are way more of them.
I don't know why you'd ever shoot or even compare standard Winchester Longbeard XR to TSS unless your trying to be easy on your shoulder, you should have been shooting Longbeard XR magnums, much closer in comparison.
Hi John, thanks for comment. The XR magnums have 1/8 ounce more shot, that is about 30 more pellets of #6. But velocity and penetration go down, so I prefer the 1200fps 3" long beards in #6. In 5s or 4s I'm ok to lose some velocity for payload. But only 30 pellets, I don't think that would have made any major difference. If you increase to 3.5" shells for one then you'd have to do the same for the other and I don't think you'd see much difference either and you'd be talking to fewer shooters who don't have 3.5" guns.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I've patterned both and theres a massive difference for the better with slower speed and more pellets. At least for me shooting a #5 3".
@@TheNewHuntersGuide also remember speed isnt everything when it comes to penetration, momentum is the primary stat. More energy is retained in a slower, heavier projectile. The magnum just makes up for the lack going from 6 to 5 or 4
@@johnd3901 You are saying that you are seeing way better results with the 1/8 more shot? That cannot matter that much. Perhaps the load is more stable at lower velocities leading to better patterns. I need to test that. If only it were not impossible to find these loads right now, ha.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide yes I was thinking that as well. The hardest part will be finding them. It's been almost impossible in my state
2 ounces of lead would be WAAAAY more= 1174 pellets of lead 9's compared to only 724 TSS pellets of the SAME SIZE! Apples to Apples people!!! ANY size lead pellet will have more pellets to the ounce than ANY These guys miss the entire point. The load is ALL travelling the SAME SPEED. 1200 fps for 2 ozs. is 1200 fps for 2 ozs.You're NEVER gaining any more payload energy downrange because you never increased speed nor weight. The individual pellets' effect AFTER IMPACT is the only difference. What breaks his neck is the kinetic energy impacted by the total volume. Don't be fools!
I am not totally following you. Yes, lead has more pellets per ounce than TSS of the same size because its less dense. Steel has even more pellets than lead. But #9 lead at 1200 fps has 0.5 FPS of energy and almost 5 inches of drop at 40 yards. #9 TSS has roughly 4 times the ballistics energy at 40 yards. Lead #9 isn't killing a turkey at that range. It won't do much more than break skin. That ballistic energy is so low its inconsequential. It doesn't matter how many pellets you have, its basically like shooting sawdust that far out. You have to use TSS or something close in density to make #9 viable to turkey hunting at 40 yards, let alone any further.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I never said that. The shot sack around the long beard changess all that energy problem. Now the shot column is super short and hits the target at the same time. 1200 fps x load weight is what you get no matter what your load is. Pellet energy carries it farther through meat.
I would go w/ the XR bcz also gets the job done and 1/4 of the TSS price
What is the BCZ?