What's It Like to Tow With: Rivian R1T vs. Ford F-150 Lightning
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- Опубликовано: 25 июн 2024
- Let's take your burning questions about towing with an electric truck and apply them to the Rivian R1T and Ford F-150 Lightning. How do they differ, which one does it for longer distances, and which is easiest to setup...
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0:00 Introduction
2:03 The Trailer
3:08 Lightning Hardware
4:08 Lightning Setup
6:04 R1T Setup
7:23 Lightning Software
8:50 R1T Hardware
10:08 R1T Software
11:40 Lightning On the Road
21:57 Halfway Point
23:17 R1T On the Road
30:01 Is the Rivian Body-on-Frame?
31:59 Final Thoughts
36:56 Closing 
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Alex, I never dreamed you would come close to equaling the monumental achievement of your RAV4 Hybrid towing videos. I hope this incredibly detailed, thoughtful and insightful video gets the audience it deserves . 👏👏👏👏
He is real expert
A very complicated subject broken down to the essential essence of where each of these stand. Great job‼️
In Wyoming people be going 90 mph while towing. It's nuts
Yeah speed limits are 75-80 MPH and people normally go over by 5-10 MPH.
Yeah that's just not smart. I blame all these 400+hp and 1000lb-ft HD trucks for that, makes speed feel effortless but if things get a bit dicey at those speeds it can go wrong very quickly.
Isn't it by law that a towing vehicle can't go above 55 MPH? Maybe I'm wrong. Either way, 90 is irresponsible.
I drive all over US and most towing vehicles regularly drive 70-80mph. As long as its not too windy, the road isn't twisty and you're paying attention you're fine. Only in states like Commifornia are there laws with ridiculously low speed limits and even less on towing vehicles).
@@scott8919 that's California where laws are plenty
Did I miss something? Was there a summary for the Lightning?
Yeah, and was there any towing range spelled out anywhere for the Lightning? That's a dealbreaker for me... interesting about the fuel trailer range though, good to know.
But for towing around town, electric is awesome. Huge power, tons of regen braking, no exhaust.
Most people tow out or town however
@@James-il3tq
Is there a stat to back up that assertion? I rarely tow, but when I do, it's usually in town. Only twice have I ever towed to another state.
These are essentially first-generation EV trucks. Even as an EV enthusiast, you'd have to be quite naive to think these are the perfect option for long distances. Until the vehicles improve, they're great commuters for people who like trucks.
Thanks for this video! Good information.
Most of my towing is 20 miles or less so an EV could work.
However, I don't really need a truck. We currently use our Kia Sorento for the light towing that we do now.
Would love to see Alex run a towing test with the KIA EV6, just saw it has a towing capacity of 2300lbs apparently.
I sometimes tow a utility trailer with a Model 3 and it does fine. The (aftermarket) hidden hitch is a bit of PITA to attach etc but it is nice to not have to worry about drag when it's not on the car. Starting in MY 2021 the Model 3 has a plastic flap that you remove to access the hitch. I was hoping a hitch would be a factory option but so far that's only on the Model Y (I think).
Love the channel(s)!! Keep bringing us great reviews
We want a review on your collection of trailers that you tow :).
13:00 This is not exactly true, especially in the context of comparing EV trucks to ICE trucks. While it is true that you use more additional energy climbing in elevation than you can recoup through regenerative braking on the descent (most modern regenerative braking systems have 60% to 80% roundtrip efficiencies depending on exactly what losses you're factoring in), when you compare that to ICE trucks, it means that EV trucks are actually less affected by towing over mountain ranges than ICE trucks are. Even if an ICE truck can Jake brake or otherwise avoid using friction brakes, it is still only getting a "free ride" back down hill. It isn't recouping any of the additional energy that it expended when climbing in elevation. EV trucks, on the other hand, both get the "free ride" back downhill and get to store additional energy that can be used for driving later.
Perfect trailer choice! That is about all I see dragged around the Chicago area. Mostly landscapers. Although I've even seen a Tesla pulling a small trailer.
19:20 It's funny to hear you say this because this is my exact reasoning for why I don't like EV route planners. Even when making the argument that they are primarily for people who rarely drive their EVs long distances, I find that the background knowledge and setup required to make a route planner function effectively and properly are more taxing than simply planning a route oneself without using any special tools.
Lol you are so wrong about this. I travel in Tesla all over US and it is super easy to do using Tesla nav that plans all the charging stops for you.
@@WhiteWi Sure, it's easy in a Tesla, but most route planners aren't integrated. Tesla does a good job of holding their owners' hands, but they are also curating the trip. I have much more enjoyable trips without having to let Tesla plan everything for me.
@@newscoulomb3705 I prefer to let Tesla do it since they know what chargers are busy and route you to ones that aren’t!
Am I missing something. You put time stamps for the rivian final thoughts. What about the lightning? Where’s the final numbers?
Aren’t we missing the Lightning results?
Where the heck are the lightning final results? Kinda odd to do this whole big test and not show results. Were the results for the lighting so bad that you didn’t want to post them?
I guess I missed it in there but what was the comparative miles/kWh between the two? I saw it for the Rivian but not the Lightning.
@@skellington2000 huh. Seems like a handy thing to include in a towing comparison.
Thank you for the detailed assessment! It's strange. Others who have done towing reviews have often said that they don't feel like they're towing anything, particularly when the trailer is substantially below the towing limit. In other words, some others have said that it feels like they are towing nothing at all. Have you seen these? What are your thoughts?
80MPH here in Utah and I see towing vehicle going much faster plenty of times or extremely slow.
I really dislike towing a trailer regardless of what powers the tow vehicle.
I am probably too late for you to still pay attention to the comments so I will probably post this on the next relevant situation but: people talk about these range variances being unique to electric vehicles in a ludicrous way. They are also true with ICE vehicles; we just think about it due to the difference in ease of replacing fuel vs. replacing electric charge. My example is thus: I drive a Mercedes Metris- I don’t tow with it, but for the first 5 years of the vehicles life I drove it as fast as I thought I could without ending up with speeding tickets, with a decent amount of highway driving, some magically in Mexico at speeds up to the vehicles up to its maximum velocity of 101 mph, and consistently where possible 10-15 mph over the speed limit in ‘mexico’.
My father became diagnosed with Mesothelioma a few months before the pandemic hit and the three way hit of that, the pandemic, and my father inevitably succoming to i made my thought process change drastically, including conserving money, to the point where I drive gently, the limit up to single lane 55s, 5 under on multi lane 55s, and 55 mph anywhere faster. The results of this shocked me; indicated mileage on the computer for the last 15,000 service interval before he got sick was 21.8, the lowest in the life of the van for such an interval was 21.2. For interval after full implementation of this change, indicated mileage was 30 mpg. I also calculated things more precisely since the pandemic, and have self calculated miles driven over gallons consumed for that interval at 26.984, suggesting 19.6 for the 21.8 and 15k interval low of 19.
Converting this to consumption, strictly for the 21.8/19.6 and 30/26.984, we have 12 l/100km and 8.74 l/100km, or an increase in consumption of 37% for the higher speed. I think it would be beneficial to the viewers of this channel to have an as close as possible to apples-to-apples comparison of consumption efficiency of, say, a Ford F-150 lightening vs a F150 Ecoboost vs an F150 V8 on both conservative vs normal speed, and towing vs non towing. I also have more anecdotally noticed I have inferior fuel consumption on cold winter mornings vs more moderate temperatures, and think that would be an area worth exploring, too.
Regen braking helps a ton when towing. Less wear on the brakes, less likely to overheat the brakes. It does also help put energy back in the battery, which is a benefit over an ICE vehicle that has no ability to put fuel back in the tank. ICE vehicles just waste that energy to heat through the brakes. Just another one of the things that make EVs more efficient.
Once battery technology catches up to the energy density of fossil fuels (or even gets close) and charging speeds get better, nobody is going to want ICE tow vehicles anymore. EVs are so far superior to an ICE vehicle for towing…except for the range and recharging speed. EV drivetrains are like the combination of all the best points of both gas and diesel engines, but even better.
Although the Rivian is a good first attempt, it is still a first attempt, and now that it’s been out for a while and been getting used a lot, it’s becoming really apparent. It’s kind of feels like a truck that was designed by a team that have only read about trucks in a magazine or forum. It kind of reminds me of something like a Porsche Cayenne or a Range Rover or something, just in truck form. It’s designed for people with lots of money who don’t actually use the capabilities of their vehicles, but seem to want them anyway.
Rivian has taken the Tesla approach to the BMS. The low regen at higher SOC is because the Rivian has basically no top buffer, same thing Tesla does. That’s why they are very adamant that you should not charge it to 100% except for the occasional long trip. If the battery is charged to very near the maximum voltage allowed by the battery, they cannot do regen because it would push the battery voltage too high. The only (safe) way they could fix that with software would be to reduce the usable battery capacity and give it a top buffer. The unsafe way would be to allow the voltage to creep higher or essentially overcharge the battery, but uhhh…we don’t need more EVs catching fire.
The Rivian is body on frame with a rigidly mounted body. The body can be completely unbolted and removed from the vehicle and still leave a rolling chassis, but it doesn’t use rubber isolators between the body and frame like a typical body on frame vehicle (like the F150). This allows them to put the frame and body closer together and also allows them to make the frame wider (to fit more battery), but it means that the suspension and drivetrain have to be individually isolated more than than they would on a typical truck. Unibody vehicle, like the Ridgeline, the frame is part of the body. The drivetrain and suspension are attached to separate subframes that bolt to the unibody for manufacturing purposes. You can remove the subframes, but they don’t run the full length of the vehicle and they won’t roll separately from the vehicle unibody because they require the unibody for support/connection.
I really don’t understand how people make these videos. Put this much work and effort into it and don’t watch it through / edit it properly. Blows my mind.
I am sure Alex is more upset about the lost footage than we are.
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🚘⚡
NOPE. My ICE truck gets 16mpg empty and 12 to 13 towing NO MATTER the temp. I have seen video after video showing F150 towing range at less than 100 miles total.
Rivian hands down..... it has adjustable air suspension uses the 2170 cells vs the ford using pouch cells watched munro video they are lacking on cell cool/heating
Are EVs really ready for pickups?
Yes, most of them haul nothing but air and are used as sedans to commute. The working trucks (light duty) are 95% of the time towing stuff locally and easily with the range of one battery charge.
All excellent information. However, if I were buying a truck for towing, it wouldn't be an EV.
Of course not, both are pretty boys not used to and not built for real work. Much too fat and fancy. blinking and glittering all around. Typical US city dwellers.
Let me guess.............. an airplane or oh yeah its a bike still no.... ummmmm a unimog yes that's it...
No mileage no mileage
Watch JerryRigEverything 10000k trailer load test. Rivian sucks. With range gauge recalculation and software bugs, you never know how far you will go.
Don’t buy one. Lots of people in line will thank you.
@@barryw9473 I wouldn't dare. New company, 1st ever car made, no thanks. Paying them $100k to be a beta tester? No. Most people GET paid to be test dummies. With Rivian, you pay them to be a test dummy. LOL.
@@barryw9473 Found the RIVN bagholder.
Does the L in his name mean LOVES ??
Literally no. And he's married to a man so no to that as well.
@@scott8919 wait, I never knew his marital status nor to whom he was married. Do you follow Alex on Facebook or instagram? I have been watching this channel for a while now but I never heard anything about his personal life.
@@Elricky124 You'll find those details on his "The Mountain Garden" channel about his home.
@@FantomLightning I always thought mountain garden was some sort of nursery where he taped his videos. Haha 😂.
55mph speed limit for towing vehicles in Commiefornia is a joke 😂 Meanwhile everywhere I drive across US most semis and towing vehicles go 70-75mph no problems. Most speed limits in US are 65-70mph for semis/towing vehicles.
The answer is a whole lot easier than he makes it out to be…the answer is laughably short distances. EV’s effectively have no towing range.
That's because EVs simply don't carry as much energy as diesel vehicles for towing needs. Diesels will likely outperform EVs for long haul towing vehicles for quite some time. Hopefully hydrogen fuel is eventually adopted for large vehicles (by free markets not forced by inefficient, wasteful governments)
@@James-il3tq unless there is a mega breakthrough in battery technology where they can hold quadruple the energy with 1/2 the weight, and 1/10 the charging time, EV’s will never work as trucks. Heck I can tow my 8500lb boat with my Tundra and go 200 miles and then fill it with gasoline in 5 minutes and go another 200 and so on. Diesels do even better obviously. The hydrogen trucks seem to me to be the most enviro-friendly method they’ve come up with so far.
That is obviously not accurate.
@@COSolar6419 do you consider 37 miles an appreciable range? That’s how far the lightning with largest battery towed a 10k trailer on a 2% grade highway. Then it needed to charge for over 4 hours. What a bad joke. Nobody I know has been idiotic enough to buy 1, but I’ll be the 1st to laugh and point at the 1st person I know that does. There was a man that bought 2 for his lawn care business and when he realized he couldn’t get from job to job without charging, he bought a 50amp diesel generator and anchored it into the bed of the truck so now when he’s working the truck is always charging off of the generator so he can complete all his jobs. How backward is that?
@TheCaptainmojo1973 the theoretical thermal power of a gallon of gas is 33kwh now subtract 70% due to the inefficiency of ice give you 9.9 so say 10kwh per gallon so a full tank in a 35gal would be 350kwh batteries will pass this sooner then later
Rivians are bricking and their service is a joke, suspension failures, rain water sloshing inside doors, this is majorly horrible stuff.
Easy answer is if you tow get a real truck
WOW, JUST WOW.....Did we learn ANYTHING from this exercise? Did you get enough views?