Do Electric Trucks Really Lose More Range Than Regular Trucks? How About vs Diesel Trucks?
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- Conventional wisdom says diesel is the way to go when it comes to towing, so that made me wonder: do diesels lose less range when towing than an electric truck? To find out I snagged a diesel Silverado 1500, my favorite diesel 1/2 ton engine by far and pitted it against the F-150 Lightning Extended Range Lariat in our fleet. Here's what happened.
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#RangeTest #EVTowing #RangeLoss
Best automotive channel if you value your time.
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 FACTS!!!
Quite the Instagram model too.
Awww!
Pretty much my go-to for any auto review
Agree!
Way too many people make apples & oranges comparisons between ICE and EVs. Thanks for making a thoughtful, reasoned comparison.
Bro, when he said "no shit Sherlock"..
I felt that
I love the sass in the beginning. Well done, sir.
Also, thank you for being one of the most scientific levelheaded channels out there.
Great video. I admire that you are honest and unbiased. Keep up the good work.
the issue for towing is really that refuel/ recharge time at least in a commercial setting. If I am personally going to the hardware store and grabbing a pallet of concrete no problem really. If I am a contractor grabbing supplies from the hardware store multiple times in a day and taking them to a job site or multiple sites that might be located at greater distances from the hardware store or lumber yard etc that i am purchasing from I cannot depend on having the down time to recharge multiple times a day
would be nice if the building site / hardware store.. wherever you park essentially had a charge point so you could refuel your truck while you do other things than driving.. just a matter of time until this happens.
@@joansparky4439 especially if those charging spots fully charged in 5 minutes. Then you aren't bouncing from charger to charger picking up a little bit of range every 5-10 minute stop you make.
Better fuel economy on the highway is absolutely logical, not only in America but all over te world right. Absolutely great video, again. Love watching AoA and hearing all about American cars that aren’t even for sale in Europe, where I live😂
My 3.0l GMC Sierra set crew cab 4x4 saw a 670 mile range unladen on a cross country trip.
Once new battery technologies hit the market, I'd expect to see 1000 mile range EV trucks.
Tks for the lolz dude. My Silverado and S-10 used to get severely reduced mpg when towing. Freeking EV tests almost no one mentions the loss for gas/diesel too.
Fill/recharge time (and availability!) is the real contrast. Time is money, time is your life.
Awesome video Alex, I really appreciate the effort you put into these. So batteries vs fuel - way, way more energy in a gas or diesel tank than a battery pack. The Lightning might be the perfect truck for someone. So could the diesel or gas. What about another option? The F150 and Tundra hybrid make a compelling case for a broad use case. I remember you saying (agreeing with Toyota I believe) that more hybrids on the road have a greater effect than fewer EVs for a plethora of reasons. Keep up the good work, and hope your back heals up!
There is a reason ICE vehicles with diesel/gasoline are so effective. They have been engineered to perfection lately. Battery is a nice novelty for the rich or people who dont need to drive long distance.
Thank you for doing this test in this manner and setting clear expectations in the beginning!
Omg your opening cracked me up!!!!! No sh*t Sherlock! lol Best❤️😂
Awesome, Alex! That was the video that I've been wanting to see that no one else has done! And the results were surprisingly similar!
Thank you!
I've been telling people for ages that regular gas vehicles have to deal with the same physics which reduce efficiency as EVs. But it's so easy to ignore when filling the tank only takes a couple of minutes and most people never actually check their MPG very often. Driving a EV means that loss of efficiency is much more noticeable.
Love having hard the numbers for comparison, and it was all presented in a fair and balanced manner.
The greatest thing is: the market will decide this. A business owner is going to “run the numbers” on this scenario and is going purchase what saves the most money/time etc. when it comes to a work truck EV version will just be a fad for people that have money to throw away.
Or those who actually care about their energy costs and environmental impacts.
Good video and good content.
This was a nice differential test, maybe next one you could test more like most folks use them: loaded bed test, small trailer test, closer to 70mph, work consecutive days test.
I applaud you for actually putting the theory to the test and proving it, but it is really sad how people just can't comprehend that its about the energy it takes to overcome the air resistance and rolling resistance going down the road. This is a basic science question and reflects how people "not caring about hs because who uses that in the real world" comes back to bite you. Everyone's talking about the losses from throwing on a trailer between EV's and ICEV's like it takes more energy to pull the trailer with an EV which is physically not possible. It takes the exact same amount of energy to pull the trailer. The less efficient the tow vehicle, the less the trailers extra energy requirement will impact range. It's that simple. It's why in TFL's vid with the lightning vs hummer ev the hummer ran circles around the lightning with the same box trailer in terms of range. Just the straight up bigger battery won. GM will have this same issue when the Sierra EV rolls around and the Hummer EV still out tows it despite the lower rating due to payload limits. It will take a Sierra EV HD to beat out the hummer in towing capability with more batteries than even the hummer has.
Alex, Thanks for S-P-E-L-L-I-N-G it out or us 😁
By far the best towing vs unladen efficiency test I’ve seen.
Finally!! Finally, somebody gets it that the percentage loss (drop in efficiency) matters, not the absolute numbers!
On another note: even if regeneration was 100% efficient, going X miles on a flat road would be more efficient than going X/2 miles up an incline & then coming X/2 miles down that incline because friction (both road & aerodynamic) is always working *against* the vehicle (yes, even when coming down a mountain). Don't give back anything!
We had this exact conversation this thanks giving...we bought into the idea of losing half ev range while towing. Cuz thats what we heard...from the internet. Sharing this video.
Thank you for explaining and testing rather than doing a shock and disbelief comparison like the Fast Lane Hoover channels did as clickbait.
340 miles in the Lightning? Wow! If only I had better control of my right foot! 🤔
Alex is dialed man. He knows what he’s talking about more than most. True car guy
TL;DR 11:17
Lightning 40% range loss with 9500lb trailer vs normal driving @ 62 MPH
Silverado 1500 Diesel 49% range loss with 9500lb trailer vs normal driving @ 62 MPH
Percentages are important but more important to many people is the total ranges. The diesel truck far, far exceeds how far the electric truck allows you to go with the load.
@@pauld6967 RAM is introducing a 500 mile range EV truck soon. When new battery technologies hit the market, expect to see 1000 mile range EV trucks. That'll put the range issue argument with ICE to bed.
@@scottwilkins Perhaps. I will believe it when I see it and there are no qualifiers like the 500 mile range isn't guaranteed when towing or in cold weather.
500 mile range with rapid recharge time (say two hours like I get with my home charger overnight) under all weather conditions and while towing would indeed go a long way to closing down the range argument. 😃
A thousand mile range on a full charge would definitely make me happy.
When will someone make the sensible option which is a large battery hybrid? Lets say around 50kWh and a smaller diesel to go with it. Then you get all that battery goodness of no local emissions and loads of off the line torque, regen and so on but rather than carrying around 500kg+ of battery that will be mostly unused most of the time, it can carry 250kg of battery and 100kg of engine. The tank could take up the space the other half of the battery would have gone (so the tank would be a beast) and the only loss is the front trunk. Or half the front trunk if its well packaged since the engine could be pretty small.
That way you go in the dealer and you have the options - diesel where you're always running the engine but its great at long days of hard work, battery which is great around town or hybrid which would do great wherever.
I have a feeling the only reason the battery only trucks are even around is so people can tell us all how green they are - while using massive amounts of limited resources which would be far better used to offset the initial/local use emissions of more vehicles.
Two or three trucks with smaller batteries still able to do the daily use would be much better to the environment than one with a huge battery and two gas.
Of course pragmatism doesn't go well with politics and marketing.
While I am somewhat surprised that the diesel gets worse unladen milage at "grandpa" speed than "normal," the near doubling when hauling the trailer of the electric truck did raise an eyebrow.
Until they get the total laden range increased & the recharge time reduced, internal combustion will remain the smart choice for hauling.
Maybe for long distances. EV is a far smarter choice for daily driving and hauling short distances, which is what the vast majority of truck owners spend most of their time doing.
Great video. Would have also liked to see what the fuel cost was. How many gallons of diesel at $X per. Vs the cost of recharging at a DC fast charger.
Silverado got double the range while towing 9.5k lbs. Amazing, i want one.
Ditch the trail boss and just get the standard 4x4. In my Silverado I see 29-31 mpg highway. With the air on it drops to 26-28. Yeah diesel is expensive but no gas truck even comes close
I was thinking the same.
I have 2WD/street tires and I’m averaging 31-33 normal driving, and at times 35-39 mpg highway.
Like Alex said, the 3.0 duramax seems to great MPG when driving in a steady long distance speed.
I’d love to try the new baby Duramax. Sounds like a very smooth and torquey engine. The additional fuel economy would just be icing on the cake.
I got my Thanksgiving wish (Alex throwing out another "No $hi!, Sherlock!")!!! Keep up the great work!!!!
I tow with my Model 3 and it tows like nothing is back there. I especially like to take off from stop lights and see the reaction people have. I get around 230 miles normally on the highway. Drops to 100 miles towing. My observation is it's mostly due to aero and not necessarily weight when you are doing 70mph.
Great idea test. Considering the price of an F-150 Lightning though, the fair comparison would probably be vs a 3/4 or even a 1-ton HD truck. At that point, the practicality of diesels destroys any EV truck's. I am not an EV hater. I think a compact passenger EV car makes a lot of sense, but these heavy EV trucks don't make sense. The cost-benefit is just not there.
I do long road trips every so often on highways and a Ram 1500 diesel always looks good for its massive range. But then I see the price of diesel nowadays and…yeah
Clearly Ram feels the same way as they are dropping the Diesel.
when most people complain about range loss I think they are just more concerned with range in general. Range loss can be the same percent but one truck still has double the range. Not to mention, actual HD diesels have significantly less range loss when towing
The biggest problem with towing with EVs currently is the lack of energy on board. I've been thinking for a long time that EVs need an unloaded range of 500 miles or more to have decent towing range.
That’s do-able, but the vehicle would cost over $100k starting price. Ford built something that is very usable for millions of people at a semi-affordable starting price.
Great test!
Kind of burying the lede. The battery powered truck goes half as far as the diesel with a load. 150 vs. 300 miles, and takes far longer to recharge.
Great video Alex!
Hey Alex we need you and love all the detailed info you gives us on your channel. So no more superman practicing take it easy, save your back.
@Alex on Auto I would like if you can repeat the test with other diesel trucks, a one more capable for towing duty, I think the loss will be less.
The loss is pretty similar in every vehicle we’ve tested which includes all 3/4 and 1-ton trucks. Most truck drivers and regular tow folks (myself included) either don’t pay attention or don’t care.
Another great content as always Alex!
My 2016 Frontier does 330 max per tank with only a 21 gallon tank and it’s a outdated engine and transmission and it gets nearly as good as a 100k ev truck 😂
My power wagon gets 16mpg highway without load, when towing my m3 (5700lbs total) I get about 13mpg. The range loss isn't that big of deal on flat pavement. Mountain drive is a different animal and will hurt mpg for sure
What would happen if electric vehicles had a 2nd gear? It just seems silly to me that highway speeds on a high torque vehicle don't get to take advantage of lower RPMs at speed.
Striking thing when I've looked into this is just how much energy one gallon of gas (32 kWh) and especially diesel (38kWh) has vs the f150 whole battery pack (98kWh). Some of these 1 ton diesel trucks have 25-30 gallon tanks (~1000 kWh), so 10X the f150. The fact that its even remotely competitive shows how superior the EV tech really is.
Diesel may have done a regen during testing. Usually causes a 2 to 3 mpg loss for that period of time.
False. Diesel is subject to the same physics as the EV.
3:21 _Mountain Lion!!!_ 😂
Good test!
I do think, however, that there could be an explanation why EVs may see a (scientifically and objectively) slightly larger drop in efficiency when towing or while laden than ICE vehicles: the drivetrain of ICE vehicles (esp. when equipped with technologies such as dual port + direct injection, variable valve timing etc.) tends to operate at a higher thermal efficiency under high load, but low rpm - it's one of the reasons why modern cars shift up at lower rpm. In other words, as long as the heavily laden vehicle can cruise at a given speed (say, 62 mph) in the same gear as it would do in an unladen condition, the rpm will be similar but engine load will be higher, and therefore at a higher % thermal efficiency.
Probably from the thermal losses of the EV. Two inverters, one per motor, working overtime with higher demand pulling and during heavier regen. Increased thermal losses across the motors and battery are to be expected as well. A test would be nice to see, but most likely difficult to measure in detail.
Not bad for a 1st Gen EV truck, where gas and diesel had over a century to perfect.
1:24 EPAted.
This type of videos is the reason why Alex can't be replaced with Brian. Even though Brain is doing an okay job; his review is just not on the same knowledge as Alex, and his style is just like any other reviewers on YT.
People subscribe to this channel because of Alex and his style. I don't think Brian can take over Alex's place to carry this channel.
Let's be fair and evaluate Brian in 10 years.
Not even close I'll take that fantastic diesel
How the hell did you only get 23mpg in the duramax. I have the duramax with Max tow so my fuel economy is lower than trucks without it. Doing 75 I'll average around 30 mpg.
Doing 62 if easily hit mid to high 30s. And tfl truck did similar wieght towing with the lightning. And got well under 100 miles range.
Alex I'm a bit confused about the statement that range loss due to climbing and descending a hill being similar to ICE vs. Electric. While the electric truck will not recover all of the energy while descending it recovers 70% of it, the ICE truck recovers 0%. I would expect if you compared going up and down a hill vs. Driving on a flat surface for the same distance the EV would lose significantly less range than the ICE truck.
Where is the 70% figure from? I think I recall TFLs hillclimb test gaining only about 40% back on the downhill section.
Right… regenerative braking is more likely around 30% efficient in ideal circumstances, not 70%. This is one of my frustrations with EVs that immediately begin slowing when the accelerator is released. In many situation, you are better off coasting and conserving momentum vs slowing and having to accelerate again (for energy efficiency).
It doesn't matter in the real world where the electric vehicle has half the range of the diesel even on a hilly, EV friendly test loop like Alex used here.
The numbers just don’t work that way in reality because even if you have ideal regen conditions (which you may not always) you’ll be using more energy to get up the hill in general terms because the vehicle is so much heavier so the economy loss vs an ICE climbing the hill is greater which kind of levels out any gain on the downhill side. I’ll be making a video on this soon
@@AAutoBuyersGuide I guess part of it is that you would use friction braking more on the downhill towing a heavy trailer than without a trailer. Any use of trailer brakes is throwing away energy.
Great video. The majority of truck owners will never tow a trailer. The most "heavy duty" use an EV truck will ever see is at the hardware store. For those who absolutely need a truck for trailering, sticking with an ICE vehicle will still be the best option.
Insinuating electric ain’t gods gift to humanity 😮
Good video. I’ll take the ICE trucks any day.
Itll take 5 mins to refuel the Chevy and it'll take over 40 mis to recharge the Ford. Plus the Fords battery could explode at anytime.
Big advantage for the diesel, planet killing carbon emissions. Hey, it is worth it for the convenience.
Interesting that the unloaded Lightning averaged 2.6 mi/kWh. TFL just did their EV cannonball in an Ioniq 5 and averaged 2.7 mi/kWh in a much smaller, more aerodynamic package, albeit at higher speeds. Could it be that aerodynamics are less important than driving style?
It's about the speed. 2.6 mi/kwh at 62 MPH. That's not what most people drive. My lifetime average on the Lightning is 2.0 mi/kwh
@@AAutoBuyersGuide 62 mph is the equivalent of our 100 kmh highway limit in most of Canada . I am one of the very few respecting it as most are driving 115-120. I found it telling that you theoretically support California's lower speed limit for towing but could not bring yourself to observe it. 🤨
Hoovie needs to watch this video. I unsubscribed from his channel purely due to his absurd take on his lightning. OR, he could be just setting up the eventual sale of the lightning at a good profit.
After you told me to watch another channel … well ok goodbye
you keep talking about electric trucks in general, but the ones that are out today were rushed, they are NOT optimized for anything, they don't come close to what 'electric trucks' will be able to do in just a few months when CT comes out.
Wow Alex, you really showed your true Commiefornia colors on this one, a EV warrior and defender.
Didn't you just admit that you exceeded the law by towing over 55MPH? Isn't that dangerous for you and others? IMHO.
Wow this guy woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning or he’s kind of a jerk
LOL No shit, Sherlock.
Thanks for all the work that went into this. Happy Thanksgiving and I hope your back improves soon.
This video is about % loss comparison. It addressed what I haven't seen done before. Much closer result than some make you believe. Very good information. I would think the same thing applies with cold weather vs normal weather. ICE vehicles also get reduced fuel economy in the cold. I wonder if the % loss would be equivalent as electric vehicles. It would be a tough test to do though.
I have never driven any electric vehicles, however I have had the pleasure of driving over a dozen ICE vehicles and I've seen anywhere from 5%-20% range loss in winter conditions from my experience, partly due to having to idle longer for the car to warm up, slower traffic speeds, and from the government switching to a different version of fuel.
I also know people who own electric vehicles and they state that they lose anywhere from 20%-50% in winter conditions when doing similar trips that I do. But for the amount of energy that the batteries have compared to fossil fuel, their efficiency is still amazing even accounting for the winter range loss.
For me, Kia Soul, 2017, typical 2L engine, avg 27 in normal temps, 20 in around 20 deg F. Around 5 min pre heat times.
@@sprockketsmodern cars dont need preheating, although you might 😂 especially if you don't have heated seats and steering wheel. it's better for the engine to drive it gently (low throttle, and low revs if it's a manual ) while it's getting up to temp than let it idle
@@johnliu6855cold air is denser. it means ICE can make more torque/ power but this doesn't really affect efficiency of the engine because making more power is achieved by injecting more fuel.
ev motor(s) also perform consistently in cold weather
But denser air also means more aerodynamic drag, which reduces any vehicle's efficiency that will affect EVs less relatively to ice because they have usually higher weight (more rolling resistance) and better drag
then you have cabin hearing that affects more EVs but not as much if they have a heat pump
and lastly battery capacity loss and battery heating affects EVs because the efficiency means there is not enough wasted heat to use. ICE will lose a tiny bit of efficiency from heating the cabin too because you are removing heat from the engine, lowering the efficiency and possibly also running heated seats/steering wheel
most of the heating loss in an ev happen to heat up the cabin and the battery and at low speeds. if you preheat the cabin and battery when plugged in and drive highway/long distance the range loss is not that bad
@@geemy9675 If it is around 5 or below, I will preheat. I have both heated seats and steering wheel, but, realistically, both won't really start doing anything for a few min.
This is a great way of showing what the percentage difference is on one charge/tank but what people really should be thinking of is how that affects the trucks usability.
200 miles then look for a charger and sit around for an hour only to go 150 miles on the next charge is a very long way from going 300 miles, stopping anywhere for 5 minutes then going another 300 miles.
Then a large tank diesel just makes a mockery of either.
I love your explaining to the part of hurting your back, and those who don’t like the reason can go truck themselves. 😂
Results were pretty much as I expected. Really well done video though, glad there’s now something I can point people to for this topic
Diesels are much better than EV's
When you said that you strained your back, I pictured you picking up a pallet, Hulk like, and moving them all at once.
Thank you for this valuable data Alex. While it's good to acknowledge that relative range loss when making apples to apples comparison is similar; I do get a sense that some complaints come from considering the absolute performance. 157 miles of range in a perfect California weather is great, but it is almost half of Silverado's towing range. Throw in cold temperatures and I would guess the range drops further, all while charging times get slower in cold weather as well. I would love and appreciate a video from you that shows how temperatures affect range and charge times of your EVs, although I realize it's tough for you, given where you live.
I can see how someone who doesn't live in a perfect climate, and has to tow something that's 150 miles away on a regular basis would not be happy with a Lightning.
While towing with lightning, drive for 3 hours and charge for 2 hours. Ridiculous lol
There's a big difference between towing a trailer from town to town. People who camp, fish, hunt in remote areas where there's no services cannot use an EV and expect to make it back. Better off with a hybrid that can double as a power generator for the camper.
This is a problem for sure…
Get a F-150 power boost hybrid I believe it gets about 700 to a tank
Models with the 36gal tank can sometimes even net closer to 800 if driven conservatively.
I've watched numerous videos of the lightning towing and none of them even cracked 100 miles when maxed out
It’ll all depend on the trailer’s aero profile and the terrain. It’s entirely possible range could be that low but there are a ton of variables
It's not the range... It's filling it back up.. Takes too long.
Alex getting salty lol Sherlock
Great video Alex, love the humor!
I had a sustained 40.4 in my Ram Eco-Diesel for almost 2 hours on the way to visit my mother in Fayetteville. I just stayed behind a semi with the closest following distance on the adaptive cruise and had the air suspension in it's aero mode. That Chevy you pics is a lifted off-roady thing. I am curious what you could get if you had a model similar to how my ram was.
Car and Driver did a test like that with the original Honda Insight behind a SUV. Got 100 mpg iirc
@@bobbbobb4663 You know which insight? I loved the 1st generation
@@alexanderdeburdegala4609 First gen insight. Iirc that one had a 5 speed manual too. Subsequent iterations were not as impressive
Also take into consideration the msrp of these trucks
Payload would be a good test or comparsion. What is range fully loaded and how much can you load in each truck?
This is going to be a good one :)
Interesting results, the summary was very on point. Charging time is the Achilles heel of electric trucks for the time being. Wonder if the F150 Lightning will be able to retrofit a faster charger with current car hardware, or if the next car hardware generation needs to come along. Great work Alex!
This is a good one but Alex's RAV4 Hybrid tow tests are epics.
Thank you Alex!!!
Videos like this are why I subscribe!
I can always count on you to make a reasonable, mathematical, well explained video!!!
I always wondered whether people blaming the electric drivetrain for the range loss was right or not or whether the law of physics applied to towing irrespective of drivetrain.
How about a cost-to-own tow-vehicle video? I know you have a Tesla vs BMW but maybe Lightning vs Gas?
Thanks for including the efficiency info of a 3,500lb enclosed trailer (my use case).
You tell 'em Alex!
I would like to see someone fill an empty tank and charge a truck from 0% then add cost of towing same weight. It’s about cost
The most knowledgeable automotive reviewer on the planet! Awesome channel with real world stats!
EV's are cool and nice - but how far are we from removable/replaceable batteries?
Salty Alex is always the best Alex. LOL 😂
Maybe test it against a real diesel?
"real"
Good report with an good attempt at an apple to apples comparison. Next time report the ICE vehicle in kWh's or report the EV in gallons equivalent.
EV will look bad if report in gallon equivalents.
Yeah my Checy Bolt's lifetime average of 126 mpg-e really looks bad, you're right.
@@Aerostealth If you take a gallon of gas and convert to electricity,, your Bolts will not travel 120 miles, maybe 12?
@@quangsomit2490 Are you conscious ????
@@Aerostealth Well, are you? Take a gallon of gas, convert it to electricity and come back ro report how far you could travel.
Your discussion on towing loss is technically correct, but kind of missing the point. The point is that electric trucks can't tow on the freeway, without extremely frequent and lengthy stops. They have 0 range compared to a diesel. That is the heart of the matter. A diesel with a large tank can go for hours, then take < 5 minutes to refill (without unhooking I might add).
You can modify diesel truck by adding extra tank of fuel, so stop less often, no way to do this in electric thing
That's covered in a different video. This one is simply about range loss. There's a reason we're not keeping either truck...