Honestly would love a plug-in hybrid truck where I could get 25-40 miles of EV range before the switch to fuel. Most trips I am taking are under 50 miles anyways (at least one way) and would allow the option to recharge and "top off" the battery at destination or just fuel to get home.
@@joshtavenner3073 We are certainly enjoying our PHEV -- a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 4xe. We would like a truck with similar PHEV drivetrain with larger battery and larger gas tank as well. When charging at home, we pay under 10 cents per kWh, and I can charge at work at no charge, as at many L2 public chargers as well.
The conclusion I get from this is if you’re doing mostly short trips, especially city driving where you’re charging at home or at a business, electric is the way to go. For long highway driving diesel is the best.
Based on the Lightning road test, not necessarily. It depends on how long of a road trip and how well developed the infrastructure is for charging. The Lightning still travels farther at less cost. The diesel would do better for towing and long distances, however.
@@rpsmith Lots of families do have two vehicles. If you can only have one, then for many people gas or gas/hybrid would probably make life easier unless you just want to rent for road trips. However, if you want to drive into the back of the beyond, many rental contracts preclude going off road.
99 % of American people are doing MUCH less per day than electric truck have range (for Lighting have 300 miles of range), the average distance driven per day is only 29 miles. 99 % of people do less than 100 miles per day. So electric truck is perfect for 99 % of people.
Im glad you pointed out the difference in charging at the Electrify America charger and charging at home. It does make a difference and realistically if that was the total trip you wouldn’t wait at all you would just go home and charge. Long distance road trips are obviously different along with towing trips. I’ve just recently come across your videos specifically to see your tests with electric pickups and I like the content that you guys have been providing. Keep it up!
In case anyone might want to know the cost per mile in fuel, I did a little break down. Chevy (diesel) - $0.19/mile. GMC (6.2L) - $0.26/mile. Toyota (hybrid) - $0.23/mile. Ford (electric) - $0.15/mile. The ford numbers were based on the numbers that Tommy gave, which he said were approximate. All these numbers were based on the price of the day of testing, but will give a better look at the cost of operation. I hope this might help others like me. I would love to see this kind of analysis applied to towing tests as well. That is were the diesel should pull ahead of the electric. As far as time to refuel. I have better things to do then waist an hour refueling.
I agree that 1 hour is way toooo long to screw around on a road trip for refueling. I like to pee, fuel up. Grab a drink and hit the road in under 10 minutes. My record for doing that is 3 minutes 15 seconds, but I was hustling...
I wouldn't trade my F-150 diesel for an electric truck ever, everybody can throw the argument out there about how much more money you save I think somebody above me just put that it was roughly 4 cents difference per mile between the electric truck and the Chevy diese.l Time is money so if you're not going where you have to get to and you just sitting around burning time that's something you could be doing other than charging your car. When you waste time like that you are highly inefficient. I couldn't imagine having to wait around for an hour with three kids in the car and a wife.
So, when gas drops down to normal, there is really no savings when charging on the road. It might be cheaper to charge at home for now, but the feds and states rake in what, 100 billion a year in gas taxes combined? There is no way they are letting that money just disappear, they will squeeze it out of us when there are enough EVs on the road...
100% correct. For some reason everyone looks at evs and thinks they are more or less free to drive. Inconvenient charging locations price of electricity consistently going up and the higher price of a electric vehicle. No thanks.
$5 gas is probably going to be the new normal. Once they condition folks to paying that much its never going down. Hell it could be $10/gal. What are folks going to do? People still have to go to work and handle their daily business.
@@timlot the oil companies are going to do what they’ve always done. Raise prices till people freak out the lower it to a number still higher than it was cause people are conditioned to think it’s a good deal. I’m betting we will never see under 4/gallon at least in AZ. here is the dumb thing. Oil is trading over 100/barrel and gas is selling for over 5/gal. several years ago we were in the same deal but the gas seemed to hover around 4. I’m not trying to change anyones mind nor should I but i’m pretty damn tired of getting bent over by the oil industry when they have been reporting record profits while we all suffer. If electric is one way to give them the middle finger i’m all in. The oil industry is sitting on over 1500 new drill sites they haven’t even tapped yet. so the fallacy is that we somehow need to let the oil companies drill more is a crock of hot elephant shit.
Now if only we had a diesel hybrid with a respectable 15-20 kWh battery 👌 one that would prioritize battery before switching to diesel, and trickle charge the battery back up while on the road and give you the option to switch back when it reaches like 30%
Well in Europe we havet MB E klass 300. With deisel and 25kw/h it gets 62miles with bateri then the diesel engine kicks in. 4cyl 200hp combine and gett over 300hp.
Personally, I was really interested in electric, but seeing the price increases and market adjustments, I ultimately chose a slightly used Duramax. Seeing this helps the rationale as I was looking at cost per mile, but the one item I would mention, while Tommy saved about $6.50 over the Duramax, an hour of my time is worth a great deal more than the $6.50 savings. Granted MUCH cheaper at home and I do hope to have an electric in the future but degradation and extreme cold mileage reductions are a HUGE influence in my buying decision.
You wouldn't charge to 90% at a public charging station though. You charge at home and spend no time unlike had where you have to constantly stop and fuel, sometimes waiting at Costco etc. If you use a public station, it's only due enough juice to get to your destination where your vehicle charges for much less while you do other things.
@@TheAndrwwJohnson Yeah like 95% of the energy (if not more) i put in my electric vehicle will be at home where it takes none of my time and costs $0.10/kWh
How can any idiot think it is a good idea to spend 40,000 on a new electric truck and pay 600.00 a month in payments just to save 150.00 a month in gas. Maybe in 20 years u will break even. This is why car salesman love idiots that never went to school
@@TheAndrwwJohnson - I guess it’s beyond your imagination that people take road trips? Just because you’re afraid to get too far from home doesn’t mean everyone is.
My next truck will be the 3.0l diesel in Silverado Z71 RST flavor. 😉 I'm not anti-electric but I'll pay a little extra for no range anxiety or hour long stops at a charging station. My time is more important. 😁
If you are a long term owner, remember that at 150,000 miles the oil pump drive belt needs to be replaced and it’s located at the rear where the transmission bolts to the engine so you know what has to be done to gain access to the belt.
@@DH-mf2lv i have a 2006 Duramax with 312k miles and never done anything to it besides regular maintenance and that truck is used for pulling 3 car carrier all the time.
@@PaulVanchugov everyone's lifestyle is different. I drive out of state 15-20 times a year and personally, I want to get to my destination sooner than later. It would definitely be more on the anxiety spectrum for me. If it were a second vehicle maybe not.... I'm glad it has worked well for you for two years.
As a 35yr Auto tech, please NEVER TOP OFF with gas! That WILL force fuel into pipes, hoses, evap canister and electric solenoids. Tank needs a certain vapor gap. Your vehicle traps and burns the fuel vapor for smog control and fuel efficiency. Topping off at the gas station will almost guarantee a Check ENGINE LIGHT and an expensive visit to your mechanic. topping off with electrons is all good though... I love you guys! Keep up those videos.
I own a '21 Silverado RST with the 3.0l. We recently drove from KC to Kerrville, TX and back. Four adults, luggage and gear...the truck was loaded. I got slightly over 28 mpg.
I'm assuming it would be relative to other electric vehicles, a 25-30% drop off seems to be the norm, that being said, ICE vehicles also get worse MPG in the cold winter weather as well, not to that extent, but definitely noticeable. This would be a great test to see though, I agree
Maybe they can do another trip to Alaska in the winter....depending on how the summer trip works out. I don't think they will make it out of Canada though before the power runs out ..... so cold here in winter.
That last 10% of charge had to be slow. I seldom charge past 80 when trying to make time. I also don’t have malfunction at a Tesla supercharger like they often have at those electrify America stations. Great episode. Thanks
Loved this comparison, which is the first one of these I've seen. Factoring in the time tips the balance over to the diesel, although I agree with the comments below: A plug in hybrid, where you can do *both* E-power AND filling up a tank seems like a huge win. Short commute? Just run on your battery, plug it in at night. If you run out of range your gas motor kicks in. Also keeps you mobile on long trips. Win/win.
Plug in hybrids don't make sense to me. Because at the end of the day, your battery is low, and your fuel is low. So you have to plug it in, and fill up the tank. It's like filling up your car twice for one trip. A regular hybrid sounds like the better option.
@@sking2173 because diesels are trash. They are filthy, they have extremely high maintenance costs, and the majority of diesel truck owners are coal rolling bro-douches.
@@rdramos13 - You never have to plug in a PHEV … If you don’t plug it in, it functions just like a “normal hybrid”. The disadvantage is that the PHEV has a heavier battery, and will suffer an economy penalty to haul that weight around if you don’t utilize its capability.
Everyone thinks they are going to haul 10000 pounds around all the time with their truck... its just not true for most users. Unless your buying it for a company vehicle your probably going to haul a few thousand pounds every so often... maybe a trailer etc. So many truck guys wanna know how it tows so they can flip out and crya bout the range being shorter... (despite the fact that MPG goes way down while towing as well.)
@@caseywarren7426 I have 46k on my 2018 daily driver 30k of that is towing my travel trailer so yes I want testing and differences done at max payload towing rigs around been RV'ing 24 years
This was a really good time watching the content. I dig the comparison and friends doing friendly stuff. Cool way to showcase the different manufacturing, manufacturers technology and designs without ego driving the display of awesomeness. There's something for everyone and these side by sides examples definitely help prospective clients determine the best vehicle for their needs/wants and lifestyle. Thanks for the cool video.
If you use the cost of $.43 / Kwh as shown in the video of bringing the lightning from Michigan to Colorado, the cost goes up to $33.11 which is higher than the diesel, not to mention the hour of time wasted waiting on the charger! Even using at home charging and local driving , it's going to take a long time to offset the $20k difference in cost.
@@digitalawareness4282 factor in replacing battery/entire truck when it goes ive spent $3000 on oil changes a few times a year in 20 years. You EV guys really gotta stop acting like maintenance costs a fortune. that lightning wont last 6 years let alone 20 you will have gone thru 3 of them in that time so ya way more expensive. its cheaper to maintain then replace
Tim, I agree with you. The cost of these stations is only going to be going up in the future too. Electricity has some nice fairly flat rates but as we transition to geener energy sources that base energy price will rise... The other thing to consider, fueling up such a big battery at home would have taken almost 12hrs with a 7.2kW charger, the one I have and most homes in America can actually get installed. The truck can handle a larger charger but that means I could not run my lights, AC or Heat when the truck was pulling down a full load!!! These are great for construction or local businesses, not sure I would ever be able to have one for what I use a truck for, long haul camping and cross country road trips!!!
One more point, this is only close because diesel was $5.199 for them during the test, 6 months ago it would have been a blow out for the dino trucks......
@@oydina-leebanks534 why won't the battery last 6 years?? O right, because you heard that one battery one time didn't. Elon says batteries can last a million miles.
Best comparison vid yet! You touched on the vehicle price offset briefly, but it would be great to factor this in with projected maintanece/depreciation for a true cost of ownership as well? Range, charging time and high sticker price are the big issues with the Ford for me. Looking forward to seeing the possible game changing Chevy electric truck.
Include battery replacement cost and resale depreciation cost in the equation as well. Hard to make a decent judgement about these factors, but it's okay to make a bad one. IMO, the cost of ownership of the gas vehicle per mile will be lowest. Ford looks like they're making an earnest effort to be cost competitive with this EV truck, so that's going to make market entry extra challenging for Tesla and it's going to put Rivian on notice that it's either going to remain a niche ultra-expensive player, or move to trying to compete in the market for consumer trucks.
@@stephendee7839 Battery packs that are thermally managed last a long time. There are 300,000-400,000+ mileage Model S Teslas out there still running on their original batteries with north of 70% of their original range. The Lightning pack has thermal management (notice the fan noise during charging).
@@Danrarbc And there are Tesla and Chevy Bolt battery packs that spontaneously explode with very little mileage. Pointing out an extreme does not alter the fact that the batteries are an expensive consumable item that is critical to performance and more prone to failure than most items on a vehicle.
i have an 02 silverado 2500 duramax my mileage is 18 empty or 15 towing a heavy load, Guys and gals dont waste your money on a new truck buy and older one tune it and best thing ever!
I'm actually ok with at home charging for saving over 50% in cost. I'd split the difference and own one gas car for the reliable range and one electric for the cheap daily commute. we need to see more affordable electric cars to make it worth it
Electric grids are already failing with air conditioners running imagine doubling or tripling demand not to mention the more electric being used the higher the price will go
@@larrysmith6797 but an ev truck can be charged overnight so you could be comparing zero time wasted charging v going out of you way to fill up once a week.
A year ago I was paying $3.50 a gallon for 93 octane. 8.1 gallons of that would've cost $28, not much worse than the EV. Another non-point he made was "but it's much cheaper to charge at home," what about everyone else who owns a EV but do not have a charger at home because they rent or own a condo?
From what I heard the electric companies that maintains the grid is asking to add an addition tax to solar panel homes due to their lack of contribution that regular people pay for their electric bill. Enjoy it while you can the government always finds a way to protect their interest.
Unless you have a garage and a 220 volt circuit in that garage you can't charge overnight. You just can't charge enough on 120 volts, even on a small Tesla.
A year ago, Tesla Superchargers were about .24c kWh (wasn't watching EA chargers at the time)... everything got more expensive. A year ago, the F150 was not available. As to apartments, some work locations have free chargers onsite, a grocery store nearby me has free charging, a mall has free. charging. A friend put a onewheel in his frunk. He goes to charge and uses the onewheel to get home. He comes back in a few hours, topped off the car and drives home.
Very informative video. I am curious if you can find an algorithm to factor in the cost of the vehicle into the calculations for cost per mile. The electric and hybrid will always top the "MPG" numbers but the additional cost of the electric or hybrid vehicle erodes from the energy cost savings.
Just consider the vehicle a fixed cost for a set duration of time or desired useful life in miles, eg 5yr loan, 200k miles, etc. Add in scheduled maint costs as semi variable. You can then add both to the variable costs (gas/electric) or set the cheapest vehicle compared to zero (benchmark) & add the fixed cost over time premium to the others to reach fractional total cost of ownership.
It's the public chargers. They're a pain in the butt and very buggy. The home chargers are "dummy" chargers actually controlled by the car itself. In my 2 years of owning a Ford Focus EV, only had it error out once during a thunderstorm.
Also, charging at home is dirt cheap. 10 to 15 cents per kWh. Could be $13 to go from empty to 100% in the long range lightning if you charge at home. And you don't care how long it takes. Just plug it in when you get home and it's full in the morning when you're ready to go out again.
Interesting, largely depends on fuel prices in your area. Where I live, diesel is $1.10 more than regular. So the difference between the GMC and the Tundra Hybrid would only be 20 cents. EVs are still obviously the cheapest to own compared to any ICE, just more expensive upfront (not including any tax credit)
But if the gas prices go down and it will, because more are getting EV’s…Supply will be more than the demand, which means cheaper gas prices…The upfront sticker is still not viable! Plus, you need to plan something for when a disaster comes to your place…If the power goes out, you will need to charge your vehicle…I don’t know, i’m still leaning towards gas…I don’t like waiting for hours to charge up as opposed to minutes to gas up.
@@kylorenjr1236 I’m leaning toward gas as well, mainly because I cannot afford a $1000+ monthly payment on a vehicle, which is what itd cost to get a hybrid or EV truck. $500 or less and I’ll be happy….
Current battery technology is another problem.Give a few years and the battery will hold less charge shortening the range.Hope the battery doesnt just decide to get super hot while you charge and decide to explode into flames.Caution...only charge your ev outside and not in your attached garage...just saying
@@edwardstimmell4860 battery tech seems pretty primitive at this time. Hopefully in the future different manufacturers will come together to make generic interchangeable battery’s where you can pull up to a “batter swap” station and replace yours depleted battery with a freshly charged one within minutes. That would be the ultimate…
You should include the price of the truck in those figures. The hour wait on the recharge kills it for me. My time is worth more than the money saved. Great video guys.
Their mistake was waiting that hour when nobody needs to. Now you think it takes that long when in reality every morning you wake up with a full charge. On the occasional trip, you only charge enough to reach your destination which is why EVs always discuss the 20% to 80% speeds as the next stop is within 80% of the range. As opposed to gas where you have to constantly stop and fuel, paying more and even waiting in line. I wish TFL actually showed the benefits to EVs instead of reinforcing myths with their EV ignorance.
@Rob Bauer You'll replace batteries less than you'll replace engines. You're lost if you think paying for gas, oil changes, trans service, spark plugs and then replacing a motor is more efficient. Just like ICE, you'll rarely keep the vehicle until motor/battery full failure. Batteries are fully recyclable so at least at the end of their life they have value. I'll be waiving at you pumping gas while I fly by in my more reliable, faster and quieter car.
from a time cost perspective... that diesel actually wins. more expensive. but when you're "off the clock" cause you have to wait to fill up, you saved an hours worth of billable time at $90-$120/hr depending on your job for us self employed people. and the diesel pump didn't require you to try three different times. It just worked.
well if you mostly drive around 200 miles max a day the lightning will charge over night so you wake up everyday with full tank, also if your a carpenter who goes around fixing houses you can charge the truck while you are at customers.
Or you can always just charge at home. You start each day with a "full tank". It really depends on how much you drive in a day. Anything less than 200 miles/day, EVs are the way to go.
I drive a diesel and while yes it might be a little more expensive at the pump, I've realized I've been filling up way less than I was with a gas V8. Gas would last a week and a half maybe 2 weeks if I'm lucky. My diesel truck lasts 4 weeks. So while I might pay for an extra 5 gallons at the pump I'm saving money and getting to drive further. EV saves a little money so when you gotta pay for the battery replacement every 3-4 years your spending all that saved on a 16k plus battery, so you have to put that money aside or take out a loan.
The more I watch these the more the lightning is really suited for the everyday driver and/or around town or short jumps to nearby towns.I'm currently putting in $100/wk just to and from work. Charge at home and at work would keep a few hundred bucks in my pocket to make that payment.
Not to mention after 300k-400k miles when your battery dies, you can put that $10k you saved into replacing the battery assuming the body hasn't rusted away. Tesla for example estimates battery lifespan at 300k to 500k miles and the motors to about a million
I have a Model3 Tesla, I pay $8 to go 310 miles. Saving of $5k/yr over a gas vechilce. Average of 1 gas fill up/week. Save also on oil changes 1x / 3 months $50 every 3months $200/year savings
@@TySchmidt bro what is the point in the gas savings if it's so unreliable you have to dump it back in? We just sold a 20+ year old Toyota car that never had a transmission or engine replacement. I'm seeing teslas with less miles getting batteries replaced. Shock absorbers, doorhandles.
@@TheAnnoyingBoss because in the time it takes for your battery to fail, you've saved more then enough to replace it. If that Toyota lasts 250k, which is optimistic most ICE vehicles need headgasket work long before that and get scrapped. Say it gets 30mpg, which again is better than 70% of cars on the road, you will have put 8333.33 gallons of gas into it. If you average that to about $3 a gallon over the vehicles life, that's $25,000 in gas you've put into it. Then 20 years of oil changes at $100 a year is another $2k. So before coolant flushes, spark plugs, coils, etc you have 27k into it. Now imagine a truck owner that only gets 18mpg, they'd have $42,000 in gas alone into their car at 250k. I think for most people they'd rather keep the extra saved money in the bank and fix a battery every now and again until you get rid of it at 500-600k
I have equinox 2018 with 2.0T engine, two days ago I went for a trip total 300 miles majority of the way driving at 90 MPH mpg I got for the trip is 23mpg about 20 in the after noon on the way there. temperature was 110F. With some head wind.
You conveniently omitted the cost of the DEF fluid in the diesel. I realize it isn't much but still. But in the end, you can pay for a lot of diesel with around $15000. You don't have to install a home charger. For people that drive a lot of miles per year its a very compelling package.
So I understand this correctly...you tested a relatively street worthy version of the Lightning against off road focused versions on the Chevy, GMC, and Toyota. In the end, the Ford beat out the diesel, but not by that much. I'm interested to see how the Duramax would have faired against the Lightning if it were in a more street focused truck. That would be a more reasonable comparison. I'm not knocking the Ford. I think it's a much better take on electric trucks than GM has (and I drive a GMC truck BTW). This comparison was fun to watch but needs a part 2.
The numbers are flawed though, he didn't charge the EV at home, which would have been just been a nickel a mile at worst. Easily trumping the compeition.
@@realpatriot5896 Actually, in this situation, you most certainly can, it was only 160 miles. For most daily-driver use, that's exactly how you are going to charge your EV. All that being said, for those that DO need to take longer trips, the non-Tesla fast-charging situation is pretty hit-or-miss still and they really need to stabilize that. Tesla opening up to other cars is planned and should help a lot.
@@raspillade6027 define pricy. The cars generally come with a charger that needs a NEMA 14-50 plug on a 50A circuit. Adding that to my garage cost me about $400 in parts and labor with a licensed electrician. Prices will obviously vary depending on placement of your breaker box. (I could have DIY'd it for under $100)
*TIME IS MONEY* Before I retired, I made $75 dollars an hour AND my profit sharing check was 10-20% of my annual hourly pay. Tell me again how much it costs to charge an electric vehicle when I factor in the inability to earn money during the charging time.
Time is money so how much do you loose waiting for the truck to charge on the f150 lighting. I think that's a fair comparison for day to day comparison. Does it need to charge longer than the average lunch break?
The vast majority of people that buy a lightning won't lose any time charging. Just wake up "full" every morning. If someone is regularly driving more than 280 miles in a day or can't charge at home then an electric truck isn't likely something they're interested in right now.
Great video ! But can you do the same test towing the same weight the same distance? Then add up the cost of each vehicle. Would be interesting to see if the lighting could even make a round trip towing without charging.
there is a video exactly like this. in the end, the EV cost 1/3 if charged at home, 3/4 if turbo charged (of the diesel). Of course, the EV was no where near the EPA figures.
Just finished a 2000 mile round trip (GMC Sierra, 3.0 duramax, 4x4). I averaged 28.9 MPG (hand calculated) bought fuel 4 times between $4.79-$5.19 (avg ~$5.00) 17.3c per mile. I used 1/4th of a tank of DEF, ~1 Gallon= $6.50 / 2000 = .003 per mile, 27% of the oil life which costs about $90 (Amsoil and Wix filter) = $24.30 / 2000 miles = 1.2c per mile. Used 6% of fuel filter life, (wix) .0001c per mile. So total per mile expense 18.5c. My best 25 mile avg was 36.8MPG, 50 mile avg 34.7MPG, and 400 mile avg was 31.2MPG. The best part for me was 750 miles of range per tank, although I never go below 1/4.
Great video and it really answers the question of which is better. The answer, the one you like the most :) . For those that value their time, they will probably not want a full EV because the other 3 vehicles were completely fueled up and ready to leave while Tommy was still waiting for his Lightning to charge. Most people buy one truck/vehicle to be their all purpose vehicle. Whether towing, taking cross country trips or just running around the City, you need a vehicle that is going to meet all of your needs. While I like the instant torque and power of the EV, I still prefer a gasoline or diesel vehicle because I can get going faster. Tommy could have had a real problem if none of the charging stations would have worked and he was alone. Great video.
If you are only going with in the Lightnings range for that day, what does it matter how long it needs to charge because you can plug it in at your house while you sleep were it is the cheepest to fill. So it may not work as well for a road trips but if all you stay in the battery packs range during a day it works great. Also DC fast charging any EV you should not go over 80% because the charging curve drops drasticly so it will double your charge time. TFL mentions this on thier pod cast but when they do their reviews they seem to forget. Well, Charging stations have had there hickups in the passed they are a lot better now.
@@chrishansel9324 you have a good point about only going within the range of the Lightning for the day, but in truthfulness, who wants to live with that kind of limitation. Per this comment we would have to eliminate one the most awesome things about life and that’s the ability to be spontaneous in my opinion. And God forbid you forget to charge it up at night, because how many of us have put off getting fueled up at night because we were tired. I believe anyone considering a full EV needs to be prepared to commit to changing their driving habits to accommodate the changes that come along with driving an EV.
@@chrishansel9324 about the ppl who park their trucks on the road? Where I live 70% of the ppl park on the road most trucks don't fit in driveways or garages what then? Tfl just showed us if gas prices were 1.25 a litre there no difference in owning a EV truck or ICE truck they're pretty much the same but the EV truck has a higher price tag
@@spacebound1969 acknowledge it or not but change is always hard for people. We can pretend like people are always proactive and on top of things but the truth is, we aren’t. Procrastination is a real human trait and a 45min charge every time you stop could add a significant amount of time to a trip compared to fueling up. As I stated above, EV owners need to come in knowing they will need to adjust their driving habits significantly to go full EV. But we are all entitled to disagree, another human luxury. God bless
The BEST option, I've always argued, is a diesel-electric plug-in hybrid like the Volvo V70 that came out in 2012 as a demostration/prototype vehicle that was temporarily available in France, UK, and Belgium (limited numbers). With a big enough battery to go 50-100 miles on pure EV range, you can cover basically, the average distance that Americans commute to-and-from work, and then having the diesel engine available for longer trips. The best of both worlds from a fuel economy (and range) perspective.
I was thinking the same owning short range EV (86 miles) for the city, which was our commuter for 95% of the time. Then I bought Tesla with their Supercharger network. And 100% coverage of US, southern Canada and some northern Mexico. Over 12k miles of road trips logged and … now my opinion completely changed. Will never go back to carcinogenic petrol 😏.
@@giecy1977 NOx emissions and particulate matter emissions targets are really difficult to achieve. That's how VW got caught with dieselgate and the researchers at WVU weren't even TRYING to look for defeat devices. The manufacturers were making claims, and the WVU researchers were just auditing those claims to see if they were actually true. There weren't even LOOKING for defeat devices -- they accidentally stumbled on it. But if they can hit those emissions targets, and it's a diesel-electric plug-in hybrid -- in terms of fuel economy, it would just totally dominate.
In HVAC, we used to get these comparisons of “a cord of wood”, therms of gas, gallons of propane, gallons of x-grade fuel oil, kilowatt hours, etc. that the Smart Salesman would convert to Dollars per 1000 BTUs per Hour, for their customers. We deserve the similar courtesy from you. Your tests are that important! Another “fun” (and potentially expensive) test would be “incline pulling a weight, before overheating”. ;-)
You would waste 2-3 hours charging on a trip like that. Imagine it is a weekend and you are towing to get on the water and wasting 2-3 hours of you rprecious family time on the weekend sitting in Walmart parking lot when you could be out on the water with a normal truck. It's all a lie/scam and people will soon realize. Maybe if the Truck supported 350KW charging it would be worth it but not currently.
lol, no. no it didn't. cost per mile to drive each was: 6.2 gas truck = 26.6 cents per mile hybrid truck = 23.3 cents per mile Diesel truck = 19.25 cents per mile * Electric truck = 15.19 cents per mile ** these figures aren't 100% accurate. * they didn't include the cost for DEF burned in the diesel ** this doesn't include the value of someone's time waiting an HOUR for the truck to charge. nothing screams CONVIENCE like charging for an hour for every 2.25 hours of actual driving. The reality is, once the cost of your time is included, the electric truck was the most expensive to drive.
@@MrSGL21 So it didn't get 72 MPGe because you didn't like how long it took to charge? That's an interesting way to do math. Is this that Common Core math?
@@johnteeple8454 on any road trip, despite the bullshit TFL showed you in their earlier video, driving any EV for anything farther than its initial charge is capable of, turns into a nightmare. at best you have a 5 to 1 drive to charge time, meaning for every 5 minutes driving, you'll spend 1 minute charging. thats at best. thats with a a very fast charger 130kw+. Many chargers don't actually provide that like the charge america station they were using. it took an hour to get 77kwh of juice.
@@MrSGL21 If you want to play the game with 'time' then continue with the service costs. That Ford will have significantly less service charges than any of the ICE vehicles. The true reality is that very few people drive 160 miles per day. The reality is that most people drive less than 50 miles round trip per day. So when you get home, plug in the truck to charge, you will wake up the next day fully charged. That is something that you didn't put in for time. If you start everyday at full, doesn't that save you time compared to those that have to stop at a gas station?
So, if you are using your Lightning as a passenger car, it isn't too bad (excluding the pricing difference). If you try to use it as a truck, things change dramatically.
I think that for an economy run to be fully realistic you need to add the cost of the time it takes to charge the Ford. If an employer is having an employee use the Ford and then sometimes having to charge the car during work hours and just sit there waiting for the charge to finish it's a genuine cost. Not just the salary of the employee but also lost revenue sin e the employee just have to sit there instead of working. And also the time used when there are charging issues.
You wouldn't use EA for a work truck except in unusual circumstances. You would plug in back at the office and go home. The next morning it would be all charged and ready to go again.
@@JackRussell021 So why does Ford have a Pro version intended for fleet use? Why do Ford advertise the car as a work truck being able to power tools onsite if it's not meant as a work truck?
@EspenLund Point well taken, but how would TFL ever be able to quantify your scenario? The salary of test workers could vary hugely; the revenue lost by the having the worker sit while charging would also vary hugely depending on the type of job/trade.
Time is money and the electric truck is sucking down at least 45 minutes per charge more than it takes to fill the gas or diesel and that was only for a 160 mile trip. I have a 3.0l diesel and easily get 600 miles per tank. The lighting is only getting ⅓ of the distance per full battery.
Just throwing this out there as well, some forum posts about the fuel economy of the old IDI diesel trucks have reported upwards of 20 MPG, and you can get similar range numbers to your 3.0l with the 2 tank setup of those old trucks. The point is, diesel might end up being the way to go overall, disregarding the emissions systems that all modern diesels require.
@@superstar64 I think a diesel electric approach would be more beneficial right now than straight electric. No need to stop and charge and the mpg from a smaller diesel generator would be huge.
@@jordanchailland8444 Soneone else said something about that in this comment section, and I don't know why nobody is trying that. The diesel would also be great for towing as opposed to pure electric, but the electric would be better for general driving with the diesel just being a generator. There's just a lot of possibilities with that setup that none of these companies are trying because a pure EV is probably more profitable in the longrun with their high repair costs and low overall lifespan.
Because the lighnting only has about 3.5 gallons worth of diesel on board in total energy capacity. 131kwhs total useable energy in the battery pack vs diesel at over 38kwhs per gallon in total energy. How far does your diesel go on about 3.5 gallons again? I'd bet it's about 1/3rd of how far the lightning can go on the same amount of total energy. 👍🏻
I'm concerned with tire ware due to excessive weight of total electric vehicles. Also, what is the life expectancy of the battery pack compared to conventional replacement of internal combustion engines?
@Jan 6 was "Wall Street Putsch" part 2 A F-150 ain’t no high performance street car. It’s a “tool” for most drivers. The battery configuration is well over 1,000 pounds if you compare the curb weights.
@Jan 6 was "Wall Street Putsch" part 2 a charge cycle is every time you plug it in. And you rarely drain the full battery so most are daily miles topped off. So way less miles then that. Plus battery degradation, age, and hoping electricity doesn’t skyrocket in price.
@@coryschraner7065 Several Teslas and other EVs already proved batteries can last $300k miles without much fuss. And pretending like electricity pricing is an issue ignored today's crazy fuel prices and the 70s oil embargo. If OPEC turns off the faucet again the gas users are hosed. Meanwhile I got solar and charge for free.
Can't wait for my sierra to finally arrive with the turbo diesel. it's been on order for a year. I had been second-guessing my choice with the cost of diesel climbing but glad to see it's still the best choice by far. Hoping to be ready to electric by the next one.
@Jan 6 was "Wall Street Putsch" part 2 I never said I wasn’t impressed with the lightning. I think you are extremely optimistic on the charging cycles for the lightning. For a properly maintained battery you should not drain the battery below 20% and you should not top it up to 100%. Your numbers for an internal combustion Diesel engine are wildly inaccurate! Also have you talked to a Ford dealer about the availability of the lightning? What is Ford lightning wait times in your area? I’ve been quoted multiple years.
Two vehicles in our future: one EV for running around So Cal and for my wife's commute to work. Another Yukon with a Duramax for long distance road trips and my work in the field. We'd cut our fuel use by half easily.
A way should be found to factor in the charge time as well. For most of us that amount of time isn’t free. I’m a Toyota guy but I’m not happy with the economy on the hybrid Tundra. It should be better. At least 25. That is supposed to be the whole point of the hybrid. The RAV4 hybrid is much much better than the gas RAV4.
The “hybrid” for the Tundra was never meant as a mile extender but rather as ETorque found on a RAM. Simply put it’s a damn mislead on a weak “world beater.”
But the bigger the vehicle the less the mileage in comparison. So you need a Prius,, and have no capacity to carry things. The test should be with half a ton payload.
Thank you guys for an awesome review. Pitty, down here at the Southern tip of Africa, things like the F150 Lightning are probably still another 10 years away, at least!!! But that would be my pick if I could choose :-) - We get very different pickup trucks down here in SA anyways and they are virtually ALL diesel only! Hence, it was nice to see you guys throwing a diesel truck (albeit American) into the mix. Thumbs up!!
You need to add that difference in price to fill up to the difference in purchase prices. How long does it take to save the difference in prices between the standard gas engine truck and the electric truck? Plus the cost to install the charging station at your house. It does not plug into a wall outlet.
It can plug into a 120v wall outlet, it just will be very slow. If, however, you only drive about 40-50 miles a day, it is fine. For those needing/wanting faster charging, like me, I had a simple 240v, 50A outlet installed for about $400 (parts and labor by certified electrician) and I could just use the charger that comes with the vehicle. I happened to have purchased a 2nd, home charger (so I can keep one in the EV) and it cost me an extra $300.
Most folks will almost always charge at home, which is SUPER cheap, and, takes LESS time than having to stop at a gas station. For long drives, if you must, keep a second, gas/hybrid/diesel vehicle.
Yeah bro but it's this weird V6 twin turbo hybrid. I want to stay out of mechanic shop more. My 15 year old accord is naturally aspirated and I've never been to the mechanic with it yet which is good because I can't afford it. I watched these guys Hummer EV turn into a brick right in traffic brand new
And gas prices are dropping... most stations in my area have 87 for around $3.95/gallon. Whereas electricity rates are going up in my area. Might end up being more expensive to recharge an EV than to fill up a gas vehicle if the pattern continues
@@hiker0100 I don't think so. When the push was toward unleaded fuel they just jacked the price of leaded up to encourage everyone to switch. I think that's what is happening and will continue to happen with EVs.
Nice compare this is my second video I’m watching on your channel and for the first three trucks you started to build a table for the compare but you never wrapped it up including or showing the table including the Ford. Also often when comparing EV’s to ICE vehicles it is to include a cost factor of the vehicle itself say the cost per mile over a life of 100k miles. Combining initial cost + energy cost gives, I think, an other perspective on owning an electric vs ICE
This is a great test if you have nothing but a single person riding in these. I'm sure the more weight inside, or that it's hauling, would put different pressures on the fuel usage. And the EV would end up costing a lot more to refuel.
@@theupscriber65 might be a good idea, we'll have to see how that pans out, as they're not yet readily available, and I can see all sorts of technical obstacles to be overcome
Basically, for me: If I was to never leave an urban/suburban environment, the EV/Hybrid makes more sense. But if I wanted to do road trips through the middle of nowhere where gas stations could be hundreds of miles apart, give me the gas or better still the diesel.
@@TheAndrwwJohnson What is cheaper and more reliable? And first of all since when automotive industry is about reliability? Do you really think that car manufacturers in 2020's do not know how or do not have technology to design and build reliable ICE cars that would last forever? They know how to do it for years, they just don't want to as that would put them out of business. I don't work in oil industry, I'm a car enthusiast for more than 30 years and I can connect the dots together. If you know a little bit about cars you probably know that vast majority of problems in modern cars are caused by electronic modules, and electronics is what makes them expensive to fix and maintain. Would you agree that EVs are nothing but purely electronic devices packed with that kind of modules? And finally EVs have absolutely _nothing_ to do with saving the planet, being green etc, they are actually quite the opposite, and this is why they are scam to me.
@@vwlukas EVs will always be more reliable than ICE, there's less moving parts period. The computers and electronics are similar in both cars built today and chips are one major reason new ICE cars are scarce. EVs absolutely are integral in reducing pollution and improving air quality. It's impossible to remove cars so shifting them to a better energy source is necessary in transition. EVs are more reliable, cheaper to run, have near zero maintenance, and are crazy fun to drive. There's no scam, they're better than ICE for commuters and soon last mile trucking. They haven't solved OTR yet but just because something doesn't solve everything on day one doesn't make it a scam.
@@TheAndrwwJohnsonEVs are good as city cars and for short trips. But there's a misconception that EVs are better than ICEs. In some ways they're worse because of the process of digging the lithium for the batteries and the way they cut through tires. Not only that but eventually the batteries are gonna need to be replaced which will lead to a ton of issues. EVs will never be as reliable as ICEs which have been around for a century. Just because there are less parts doesn't make a car more reliable.
@@epiclife2636 You're just stating more misconceptions. Batteries are already recyclable 100% from Tesla for example. Mining is no worse than drilling and fracking plus transporting gas, oil spills etc. EVs are already more reliable than ICE vehicles by having drastically fewer moving parts. You have to get current info on EVs.
It's cute how manufacturers are pricing most buyers right out of the new full-size truck market who don't make 6-figures a year and aren't interested in an insane 72 or 84-month loan. It's also cute that with truck prices being so high, manufacturers don't feel the need to fill the void with smaller, affordable trucks, aside from the Maverick, which you can't get with a full-size bed.
I don’t understand man. With hopefully anonymity on the internet, I’ll say I make comfortably into 6 figures, and have no debt outside of a very small mortgage, and I would not be comfortable paying these prices for a new truck at all. I truly do not understand who is buying these, nor how, let’s not even consider why. $1k+/month on a depreciating asset (liability)… this is financial illiteracy.
At least in my own circle of friends, there are many of them that think a $750+ monthly payment is reasonable. That is insane to me and pretty soon we will have 10 year financing.
@@upshifter5316 you sound financially responsible. I don't think that can be said for a lot of people. Financial experts say that a vehicle payment should not exceed 10% of a person's monthly income. I have a feeling a lot of people spending this kind of money on a truck blow that out of the water, spending well beyond their means. That's mistake #1. Mistake #2: Financing beyond the duration of a vehicle's bumper-to-bumper warranty. The longer a person finances beyond the warranty, the greater the chance they'll be stuck with their high truck payment AND out-of-pocket repair costs. Not a good situation to be caught in. So let's do some simple math... A $65,000 truck / 36-month financing (the duration of the bumper-to-bumper warranty of all of these trucks) = $1,805 per month. This doesn't include interest charges or the taxes and fees applied at purchase. For this purchase to be financially solid, it requires a $216,000 yearly income. That's a relatively small percentage of Americans. So how do the masses afford it? They extend the finance term out as long as possible, now up to an eye-watering 84 months. People who are financially illiterate, as you put it, won't hesitate. So now they're stuck with $773 per month payments for a torturous 7yrs. At the 10% rule, that still requires an income of nearly $93,000. That's still far above the national average income. So it's a pretty safe bet that only affluent, financially responsible people are buying these trucks or middle-of-the-road folks who are living so far beyond their means it's not even funny.
@@jza80king I'm guessing your friends are either making 6-figures a year, financing for far too long, or bragging socially then crying behind closed doors.
I was in on the Lightning but now I have many reservations. Most of the driving is local, so I could charge at home. I do however want to tow a boat. Here in Missouri from where I live a minimum of 2 plus hours to 4-5 hours of towing. Then figure in the lack of charge stations. It might not make sense.
Many trailer manufacturers are offering self propelled EV trailers so your tow vehicle doesn't lose range. But they are expensive and you have to charge them so that's extra money. Probably not as much as you'd have to pay in extra fuel to tow a trailer but it is an added cost.
Glad to see you noted how much time you spent refilling the tanks and/or batteries. Time is money. We all know its going to be cheaper at the "pump" for electric, but its just not worth it to me when the time is factored in and with my current living situation/place of residence.
This is a good point. I put in 240V circuits/level 2 EVSEs at my house, but if your living situation precludes this and you have to rely on public charging solutions it makes EV ownership much less appealing in terms of cost and convenience.
I rented a Tahoe for a week on vacation, I was actually amazed at the savings cylinder deactivation can get. Cruising at 75 the MPG computer would show 50 mpg when running on 4 cylinders. It was also cool to see the engine go from 8 to 6 to 4 cylinders. The downside is accelerated wear on the cylinder rings/pistons when not firing and no compression, but still moving at high RPM. I wonder how long these engines will last due to this. Most V8s are long lasting engines
My old accord was a rental without cylinder deactivation and it's in suprising shape. Broken button Ill fix, a light bulb burns out every once in a while and I replace it. 175k miles no oil burning.
i feel that pain of the 6.2L GMC, I've got that motor in my silverado and its just brutal for the in town trips it makes. Somewhat regret not going with the duramax straight 6 given the towing performance I've gotten out of the 6.2, but I wanted the nicer interior...
@Your Pappy Shouldn't you "technicians" be happy unreliable cars run your business? More business for me... right? Anyway, for every truck that pulls up to a shop, gm sells 99+ that dont.
on a hybrid vehical i like the idea of stop and go to be stoping with generated power braking, and starting on electric and maintaining speeds on fuel.
Need to know initial cost of vehicles as well. In early 2000's I was selling cars when gas spiked and we had people taking $10k hits to trade into more efficient vehicles. As the used car manager said ' $10k will buy a lot of gas'. Also, if you're looking at climate effects - you have to drive an EV 400,000 to break even with CO2 of gas/diesel when initial manufacturing is accounted for.
So extracting oil is a sin but the massive strip mines used to extract rare earth metals are wonderful and "green'. I don't mind EV's but pretending they are some green Unicorn is laughable.
You’re right, it’s not a green process, but there are enough reports out there hat prove that it’s still cleaner or greener than extracting oil. End to end, an EV is greener than producing and running an ICE vehicle, even if the EV is charged from coal, which isn’t the case in a lot of places in the US. As an aside, we’re continuing to evolve battery tech, the parts that goes into them, for example LFP batteries, and the grid has been and will continue to get greener. Can we say the same for ICE? No. So when you take both those into account, it’s misguided to think that it’s not cleaner and getting better. Again, you’re not incorrect, it’s not a unicorn, but that’s what innovation is for.
I own a 2018 Volt and love it. Most Hybrids run the engine all the time. The Volt only runs the engine after the battery has drained. If you daily commute is under 50 miles, your 100% electric (if you charge your car every night at home) Not sure if all plug in Hybrids do this. I know the regular Hybrids run the engine as soon as it starts driving. What's worse, my old Prius would run the engine 100% for the 1st 15 mins or so just because a cold engine gets bad emissions. So, the prius gets crappy gas mileage for most commutes.
The Electric trucks are very functional fast and cool. I Catch lots of them coming from vegas against the wind and it is hard for them to reach their desired charge station. in the 15 and 40 It will specially become a problem when it starts to heat up in the summer. Lots of wind and weather above 100 degrees will theoretically decrease mileage once A/C is on full blast. Maybe you guys can do a test on the mileage.
I have seen two Teslas near Vegas that ran out of charge. My father in law also almost ran out of charge at least once going to Vegas (I live near Vegas).
That giant long hill climb coming out of Vegas heading west on the 15 is grueling when it’s 110deg out. Have fun in an electric lmao and how many charge stations are between Vegas and the coast of CA? After that climb you have another 4+ hours of driving. Not even a ton of gas stations.
@@pryme2013 You know that there is a gage in EVs telling you your range and battery level. There are also many apps that let you know where charge stations are located. So people that run out of charge in their EV are not driving their car correctly. Also I've heard that these gages in Teslas are not very accurate.
thats exactly what im wondering. take these things to phoenix and drive them in traffic in the dead of summer. then charge them and wait inside with the AC blowing.
Bought an F-150 Lightning in January. Traded after 30 days because of the messed up charging experience. Great truck though, ....especially the battery housing! Since the deal with TESLA on charging, I've ordered a new one for October delivery...
What this helps make abundantly clear is that the Electric truck/Electric vehicle only makes sense if you can charge while at home or for example while in a store shopping. Being on a road trip and having to spend an hour or more at every fuel stop? Yeah no. Heck No. I am surprised at how well the 6.2 did and that the diesel was more than efficient enough to offset the fuel cost difference. Those numbers would doubtless look even better with on-road trucks vs what was tested. That the diesel did so well here is also interesting because in HD trucks the cost of ownership (purchase, fuel, maintenance) is always higher with the diesel trucks compared to their gas brethren. Which means in that category there is no economic argument for diesel. It would be interesting to see a long term test of the 3.0 Duramax that evaluates this question. That being said it also occurs to me that when testing diesel trucks for fuel economy these days you need to start including the cost of DEF.
Trucks are a really inefficient shape for a high speed vehicle, having the same size battery that the truck has in a sedan would be much more efficient. As an example that Ford F150 Lightning gets around 2 miles per KWh, my Smart Fortwo EQ gets 6 miles per KWh.
@@drzej3k794 there is no question the truck is an inefficient shape. However no matter how efficient your body there is no way around stupid long charging times and inconvenient charging stations on an EV road trip. My in-laws line on a lake 4.5 hours from our house. It’s a no brainer piece of cake drive in a gas powered car. In an EV even if we could make it on a single charge we’d be stuck charging off a household outlet for days trying to get the battery charged back up. And there are no charging stations anywhere remotely near them.
Admitted EV fan here, as I own an EV6 AWD GT-Line. But, Tommy's experience with that Electrify America (EA) unit shows how much more cost effective it is to charge at home on a level 2 (240V) station, and how much further (non Tesla) charge stations have to go before they're truly practical for most people. The fact that I see a whole bunch of different car reviewers having the same poor experience at EA stations should be a wake up call to them to get their act together and start fixing things... At this point in time, they should be as seamless as Tesla super chargers - no excuses. As for my EV6, I do all my charging at home during the night (about once every 7 - 10 days). However, I didn't buy it to road trip, I bought it as my daily driver. So far, I wouldn't go back to an ICE vehicle, but as I said, things really need to improve drastically with EA!
I think they're in a huge expansion push in a new technology (relatively), and they're going to have to learn the maintenance schedule for the system, including software bugs. We don't notice it, but the gasoline pumping system has a routine maintenance cycle that the gas station owner has to follow, and when their pumps are under maintenance, we just go to another pump or station. I just hope EA doesn't end up like many wind turbines, they get built because of the tax incentives, but don't get maintenance and repairs when they should because there's no tax incentive for that expense.
You're absolutely right about the issues with charging. However the EV naysayers would've said the same thing about ICE back in 1915. Gas stations only existed in major cities and along the best of the rudimentary highways that existed at the time. Trains and horses/wagons were still the best options for long distance travel. Today's EVs are at that equivalent place in history as ICE were 100+ years ago. I think the best option for the next 10-15 years is PHEVs as this provides the flexibility needed for this period of transition.
The 59 minute charging time you'd already be 40+ miles down the road or at your destination enjoying your vacation meanwhile you're $25 turned into $35+ on snack food, waiting for your car to charge.
Except you don't have to sit at a charging station unless you want a full charge? Also, charging in the future will be faster and more efficient than it is today...😂
My truck is 20 years old and I can fix most things on it for under a grand, unless they warranty the batteries for decades and regulate the cost of charging stations.... Oh, then there will be road tax for at home stations and if you are a renter, and if you only use it as a second vehicle et. cetera... There's your quagmire. Charge it at Yosemite, let us know how much that costs. There was a kid that drove a Nissan Pulsar around with gas can in the back that also worked at the park and that's how he paid for his climbing addiction. Rescuing tourists that thought they knew better than to pay almost $6/gal when the national average was half. Small picture outlooks are getting the rest of us into nonsense.
Gotta make their money back form all that lost fuel tax somehow. I would be stunned if they didn't start taxing electricity to make that lost revenue back. The best part of that is, you'll feel it filling up your vehicle, and in your everyday living. Double whammy
Because you understand the basic economics of supply and demand. Using electricity to power our vehicles instead of oil creates more demand for electricity. However, we are not increasing our supply. On the contrary, we are reducing our supply at the same time by eliminating coal and natural gas electric plants. Solar panels that produce for a few hours a day can't make up the difference regardless of how much we wish it were so.
Feel like we have missed the boat and should have been many more hybrid's before full electric. Or we find out after this electric push we find taking the best of both worlds as hybrids is the answer?
The thing is if you want to reduce the nation's fuel consumption, trucks and SUVs are the best place to put a hybrid drivetrain, not econoboxes like the Prius. Unfortunately the US uses MPG. That's actually the inverse of fuel consumption. So the the bigger MPG gets, the less fuel savings it represents. Improving an econobox from 35 MPG to 50 MPG (a 15 MPG improvement) only saves you 0.86 gallons per 100 miles. Improving an SUV from 18 MPG to 25 MPG ("only" a 7 MPG improvement) saves you 1.56 gallons per 100 miles. Nearly twice as much per mile driven. Shortly after the Prius was introduced, manufacturers tried to introduce hybrid SUVs. Unfortunately, a misguided environmental movement ran a publicity campaign shaming the automakers and buyers away from them. All models were dropped from the market except Toyota's Highlander Hybrid. This misstep has probably caused us to burn billions of barrels more oil over the last two decades.
@@solandri69 most "environmentalist" initiatives are actually the wrong solution, just look at the Ethanol boondoggle. I'm buying a hybrid maverick for my next vehicle.
if you use the same specs they got, but with the cost of gas here in western NC, the cost is different. Gas = $35.56, Hybrid = $26.99, Diesel = $31.61 Also, did they have to use premium in the GMC? and Mid-grade in the hybrid? I would like to see the same test with just regular gas to see if any difference. I really doubt the GMC v8 requires Premium. Is it a high compression engine? If the GMC was running Regular gas, it might have got a smidge worst mileage, but for the extra dollar per gallon, and I bet you don't see any better performance from the Premium gas too. it's just not worth it unless you are running the high end, high compression engine like in the BMW's, Mercedes, etc... I would love to see a MPG test in same vehicle with one trip in premium and one with regular gas. to see if there is any difference and if it makes up for the price difference.
I watched another channel (I know TFL is the best though) and they did a cost of ownership on the lightning, but no one has really talked about battery life cycle and cost of replacement. I would love it if you guys looked into that in a comparison. We had some old fleet vehicles that the batteries were done after 7ish years and the vehicles were basically worthless. Had to pay to get them out the door. They were Hybrid cars so the batteries were not even that big. I'm wondering what a full electric like the lightning will cost to replace batteries. I'm guessing that little Duramax will outlive the batteries 3 times over and it was already cheaper...and I'm a Ford fan.
Seen a video not that long ago of a guy in a Tesla that was about two or three years old and the batteries were shot and they wanted 15k ish To replace it would not warranty, so he destroyed the car
@@fredbarton1926 If you mean the one they blew up with 66 sticks of dynamite, it was 9 years old and he could have replaced the battery and sold it for a profit, but he made more money from RUclips. He also removed the battery and motors before so probably made some money selling them as well.
Ford has a full EV platform they intend to reveal next year and deliver for 25 alongside the “classic” lightning. That platform will definitely have a raptor
For the diesel, add in costs for the emissions fluid. And how much does it use? My VW TDi used 2.5gal over 10k mile as I recall. I heard trucks use more.
@@richfarfugnuven6308 just depends on the gain in fuel economy. If it’s a significant jump in mpg, it’s more cost effective to purchase the more expensive fuel.
diesel is definitely cheaper to run especially when you consider you have to spend 18,000 dollars to replace the battery 10 years later in the EV....and its not uncommon to rack up 250,000 miles on a diesel....LOL.....probably would have to replace 2 batteries in a EV to get that...LOL...LOL
Honestly would love a plug-in hybrid truck where I could get 25-40 miles of EV range before the switch to fuel. Most trips I am taking are under 50 miles anyways (at least one way) and would allow the option to recharge and "top off" the battery at destination or just fuel to get home.
I want that option in every vehicle!
Mustangs, my cruiser motorcycle. And my ram lol.
Yea I think a good plug-In hybrid would be the sweet spot right now
@@joshtavenner3073 We are certainly enjoying our PHEV -- a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 4xe. We would like a truck with similar PHEV drivetrain with larger battery and larger gas tank as well. When charging at home, we pay under 10 cents per kWh, and I can charge at work at no charge, as at many L2 public chargers as well.
Yeah like the new mercedes gle hybrid can go like 60 miles on pure electric and the it runs on diesel to so you get like best of both worlds.
Are you not honest on what you say usually? You seem not that trustworthy when you say that.
The conclusion I get from this is if you’re doing mostly short trips, especially city driving where you’re charging at home or at a business, electric is the way to go. For long highway driving diesel is the best.
So you need 2 vehicles?
Based on the Lightning road test, not necessarily. It depends on how long of a road trip and how well developed the infrastructure is for charging. The Lightning still travels farther at less cost. The diesel would do better for towing and long distances, however.
@@roelofm8830 -- Exactly!
@@rpsmith Lots of families do have two vehicles. If you can only have one, then for many people gas or gas/hybrid would probably make life easier unless you just want to rent for road trips. However, if you want to drive into the back of the beyond, many rental contracts preclude going off road.
99 % of American people are doing MUCH less per day than electric truck have range (for Lighting have 300 miles of range), the average distance driven per day is only 29 miles. 99 % of people do less than 100 miles per day. So electric truck is perfect for 99 % of people.
Im glad you pointed out the difference in charging at the Electrify America charger and charging at home. It does make a difference and realistically if that was the total trip you wouldn’t wait at all you would just go home and charge. Long distance road trips are obviously different along with towing trips. I’ve just recently come across your videos specifically to see your tests with electric pickups and I like the content that you guys have been providing. Keep it up!
In case anyone might want to know the cost per mile in fuel, I did a little break down.
Chevy (diesel) - $0.19/mile.
GMC (6.2L) - $0.26/mile.
Toyota (hybrid) - $0.23/mile.
Ford (electric) - $0.15/mile.
The ford numbers were based on the numbers that Tommy gave, which he said were approximate. All these numbers were based on the price of the day of testing, but will give a better look at the cost of operation. I hope this might help others like me. I would love to see this kind of analysis applied to towing tests as well. That is were the diesel should pull ahead of the electric. As far as time to refuel. I have better things to do then waist an hour refueling.
Just don't forget that if the lightning was charged at home it woulda been ~$0.06/mile.
I agree that 1 hour is way toooo long to screw around on a road trip for refueling. I like to pee, fuel up. Grab a drink and hit the road in under 10 minutes. My record for doing that is 3 minutes 15 seconds, but I was hustling...
I wouldn't trade my F-150 diesel for an electric truck ever, everybody can throw the argument out there about how much more money you save I think somebody above me just put that it was roughly 4 cents difference per mile between the electric truck and the Chevy diese.l Time is money so if you're not going where you have to get to and you just sitting around burning time that's something you could be doing other than charging your car. When you waste time like that you are highly inefficient. I couldn't imagine having to wait around for an hour with three kids in the car and a wife.
@@T-Mo_ But at home you would also likely have to wait several hours to charge unless you have the special circuits installed to do fast charging...
@@T-Mo_ you can add even more hours to the charge time doing it at home. Sorry but the it’s cheaper when you charge at home is a bogus argument.
So, when gas drops down to normal, there is really no savings when charging on the road. It might be cheaper to charge at home for now, but the feds and states rake in what, 100 billion a year in gas taxes combined? There is no way they are letting that money just disappear, they will squeeze it out of us when there are enough EVs on the road...
Death and taxes are guaranteed.
100% correct. For some reason everyone looks at evs and thinks they are more or less free to drive. Inconvenient charging locations price of electricity consistently going up and the higher price of a electric vehicle. No thanks.
$5 gas is probably going to be the new normal. Once they condition folks to paying that much its never going down. Hell it could be $10/gal. What are folks going to do? People still have to go to work and handle their daily business.
Welcome to the new normal... Mad Max Joe.
@@timlot the oil companies are going to do what they’ve always done. Raise prices till people freak out the lower it to a number still higher than it was cause people are conditioned to think it’s a good deal. I’m betting we will never see under 4/gallon at least in AZ. here is the dumb thing. Oil is trading over 100/barrel and gas is selling for over 5/gal. several years ago we were in the same deal but the gas seemed to hover around 4. I’m not trying to change anyones mind nor should I but i’m pretty damn tired of getting bent over by the oil industry when they have been reporting record profits while we all suffer. If electric is one way to give them the middle finger i’m all in. The oil industry is sitting on over 1500 new drill sites they haven’t even tapped yet. so the fallacy is that we somehow need to let the oil companies drill more is a crock of hot elephant shit.
Now if only we had a diesel hybrid with a respectable 15-20 kWh battery 👌 one that would prioritize battery before switching to diesel, and trickle charge the battery back up while on the road and give you the option to switch back when it reaches like 30%
Well in Europe we havet MB E klass 300. With deisel and 25kw/h it gets 62miles with bateri then the diesel engine kicks in. 4cyl 200hp combine and gett over 300hp.
Is there an engine in the US like this? I’m searching for a truck and mpg is important for my day to day life
@@mtbwolf7368 2022 Mercedes-Benz E300de First Drive: Diesel Plug-In Wagon Unicorn
Personally, I was really interested in electric, but seeing the price increases and market adjustments, I ultimately chose a slightly used Duramax. Seeing this helps the rationale as I was looking at cost per mile, but the one item I would mention, while Tommy saved about $6.50 over the Duramax, an hour of my time is worth a great deal more than the $6.50 savings. Granted MUCH cheaper at home and I do hope to have an electric in the future but degradation and extreme cold mileage reductions are a HUGE influence in my buying decision.
You wouldn't charge to 90% at a public charging station though. You charge at home and spend no time unlike had where you have to constantly stop and fuel, sometimes waiting at Costco etc.
If you use a public station, it's only due enough juice to get to your destination where your vehicle charges for much less while you do other things.
@@TheAndrwwJohnson Yeah like 95% of the energy (if not more) i put in my electric vehicle will be at home where it takes none of my time and costs $0.10/kWh
How can any idiot think it is a good idea to spend 40,000 on a new electric truck and pay 600.00 a month in payments just to save 150.00 a month in gas. Maybe in 20 years u will break even. This is why car salesman love idiots that never went to school
No you didn't do that at all ... electric is way cheaper even if you pay at Walmart... I'm Calling Double BS Ski Mack the crack head
@@TheAndrwwJohnson - I guess it’s beyond your imagination that people take road trips? Just because you’re afraid to get too far from home doesn’t mean everyone is.
My next truck will be the 3.0l diesel in Silverado Z71 RST flavor. 😉 I'm not anti-electric but I'll pay a little extra for no range anxiety or hour long stops at a charging station. My time is more important. 😁
If you are a long term owner, remember that at 150,000 miles the oil pump drive belt needs to be replaced and it’s located at the rear where the transmission bolts to the engine so you know what has to be done to gain access to the belt.
@@DH-mf2lv i have a 2006 Duramax with 312k miles and never done anything to it besides regular maintenance and that truck is used for pulling 3 car carrier all the time.
LoL bro. Driving EV for two years and can say that range is a consideration not anxiety.
@@norbkowa not remotely comparable
@@PaulVanchugov everyone's lifestyle is different. I drive out of state 15-20 times a year and personally, I want to get to my destination sooner than later. It would definitely be more on the anxiety spectrum for me. If it were a second vehicle maybe not.... I'm glad it has worked well for you for two years.
As a 35yr Auto tech, please NEVER TOP OFF with gas! That WILL force fuel into pipes, hoses, evap canister and electric solenoids. Tank needs a certain vapor gap. Your vehicle traps and burns the fuel vapor for smog control and fuel efficiency. Topping off at the gas station will almost guarantee a Check ENGINE LIGHT and an expensive visit to your mechanic. topping off with electrons is all good though...
I love you guys! Keep up those videos.
I own a '21 Silverado RST with the 3.0l. We recently drove from KC to Kerrville, TX and back. Four adults, luggage and gear...the truck was loaded. I got slightly over 28 mpg.
That's not bad. Especially having to drive through the Hill Country and those steep hills.
3 days in the lightning 😎
@@richardradawetz8788
LMAO 🤣
Thank you for that!
So here is the test I’m waiting for with the lightening is in the winter, when it’s cold and how much that effects your rangr
I'm assuming it would be relative to other electric vehicles, a 25-30% drop off seems to be the norm, that being said, ICE vehicles also get worse MPG in the cold winter weather as well, not to that extent, but definitely noticeable. This would be a great test to see though, I agree
Maybe they can do another trip to Alaska in the winter....depending on how the summer trip works out. I don't think they will make it out of Canada though before the power runs out ..... so cold here in winter.
That last 10% of charge had to be slow. I seldom charge past 80 when trying to make time. I also don’t have malfunction at a Tesla supercharger like they often have at those electrify America stations. Great episode. Thanks
Loved this comparison, which is the first one of these I've seen.
Factoring in the time tips the balance over to the diesel, although I agree with the comments below: A plug in hybrid, where you can do *both* E-power AND filling up a tank seems like a huge win. Short commute? Just run on your battery, plug it in at night. If you run out of range your gas motor kicks in. Also keeps you mobile on long trips. Win/win.
as much as it pains me, the diesel was the best option they drove that day.
@@MrSGL21 - Why does that “pain you”? These diesels have a lot going for them.
Plug in hybrids don't make sense to me. Because at the end of the day, your battery is low, and your fuel is low. So you have to plug it in, and fill up the tank. It's like filling up your car twice for one trip. A regular hybrid sounds like the better option.
@@sking2173 because diesels are trash. They are filthy, they have extremely high maintenance costs, and the majority of diesel truck owners are coal rolling bro-douches.
@@rdramos13 - You never have to plug in a PHEV … If you don’t plug it in, it functions just like a “normal hybrid”. The disadvantage is that the PHEV has a heavier battery, and will suffer an economy penalty to haul that weight around if you don’t utilize its capability.
I hope to see similar testing with either towing or maxed payload.
They did one but you’d have to watch the videos separately
Everyone thinks they are going to haul 10000 pounds around all the time with their truck... its just not true for most users. Unless your buying it for a company vehicle your probably going to haul a few thousand pounds every so often... maybe a trailer etc. So many truck guys wanna know how it tows so they can flip out and crya bout the range being shorter... (despite the fact that MPG goes way down while towing as well.)
@@caseywarren7426 If you run a business MPG makes a difference.
@@caseywarren7426 I have 46k on my 2018 daily driver 30k of that is towing my travel trailer so yes I want testing and differences done at max payload towing rigs around been RV'ing 24 years
The Chevy diesel would win by a lot
This was a really good time watching the content. I dig the comparison and friends doing friendly stuff. Cool way to showcase the different manufacturing, manufacturers technology and designs without ego driving the display of awesomeness. There's something for everyone and these side by sides examples definitely help prospective clients determine the best vehicle for their needs/wants and lifestyle. Thanks for the cool video.
Nathan, what's you strategy?
Nathan: "That's easy. I skipped lunch. I'm super ligier, today." 😂🤣💀
I love to see Nathan enjoying some road snacks during the challenge.
😆read this as he was chowing on some chips lol
Yup, had just finished saying how he skipped lunch to be lighter for the test....2 minutes later..."munch munch munch"...perfect
17:20 His battery was running too hot after a long haul. Even at 20:40 they said it was 100 degrees outside.
If you use the cost of $.43 / Kwh as shown in the video of bringing the lightning from Michigan to Colorado, the cost goes up to $33.11 which is higher than the diesel, not to mention the hour of time wasted waiting on the charger! Even using at home charging and local driving , it's going to take a long time to offset the $20k difference in cost.
Factor in little to no maintenance. No oil changes, air filter, etc…
@@digitalawareness4282 factor in replacing battery/entire truck when it goes ive spent $3000 on oil changes a few times a year in 20 years. You EV guys really gotta stop acting like maintenance costs a fortune. that lightning wont last 6 years let alone 20 you will have gone thru 3 of them in that time so ya way more expensive. its cheaper to maintain then replace
Tim, I agree with you. The cost of these stations is only going to be going up in the future too. Electricity has some nice fairly flat rates but as we transition to geener energy sources that base energy price will rise... The other thing to consider, fueling up such a big battery at home would have taken almost 12hrs with a 7.2kW charger, the one I have and most homes in America can actually get installed. The truck can handle a larger charger but that means I could not run my lights, AC or Heat when the truck was pulling down a full load!!! These are great for construction or local businesses, not sure I would ever be able to have one for what I use a truck for, long haul camping and cross country road trips!!!
One more point, this is only close because diesel was $5.199 for them during the test, 6 months ago it would have been a blow out for the dino trucks......
@@oydina-leebanks534 why won't the battery last 6 years?? O right, because you heard that one battery one time didn't. Elon says batteries can last a million miles.
Best comparison vid yet! You touched on the vehicle price offset briefly, but it would be great to factor this in with projected maintanece/depreciation for a true cost of ownership as well? Range, charging time and high sticker price are the big issues with the Ford for me. Looking forward to seeing the possible game changing Chevy electric truck.
yes, what happens when need over haul? EV at 100,000 what is trade in?
Include battery replacement cost and resale depreciation cost in the equation as well. Hard to make a decent judgement about these factors, but it's okay to make a bad one. IMO, the cost of ownership of the gas vehicle per mile will be lowest. Ford looks like they're making an earnest effort to be cost competitive with this EV truck, so that's going to make market entry extra challenging for Tesla and it's going to put Rivian on notice that it's either going to remain a niche ultra-expensive player, or move to trying to compete in the market for consumer trucks.
@@MikeCameramike if its anything like an old Tesla it’ll hold its value well. Early gen Model S’s with 150-200k miles still sell for a lot.
@@stephendee7839 Battery packs that are thermally managed last a long time. There are 300,000-400,000+ mileage Model S Teslas out there still running on their original batteries with north of 70% of their original range. The Lightning pack has thermal management (notice the fan noise during charging).
@@Danrarbc And there are Tesla and Chevy Bolt battery packs that spontaneously explode with very little mileage. Pointing out an extreme does not alter the fact that the batteries are an expensive consumable item that is critical to performance and more prone to failure than most items on a vehicle.
i have an 02 silverado 2500 duramax my mileage is 18 empty or 15 towing a heavy load, Guys and gals dont waste your money on a new truck buy and older one tune it and best thing ever!
I'm actually ok with at home charging for saving over 50% in cost. I'd split the difference and own one gas car for the reliable range and one electric for the cheap daily commute. we need to see more affordable electric cars to make it worth it
And the more people that buy them, the cheaper they will become. (Hopefully)
Electric grids are already failing with air conditioners running imagine doubling or tripling demand not to mention the more electric being used the higher the price will go
Have fun playing the power company to come install a bigger transformer so you can put it enough power
@@TylerSnowis indeed. But I wonder if electricity will go up in price substantially when the demand is higher. I think it will.
So your answer is to buy 2 cars?
Depending on how you use a truck time can be money and 1 hour is a long time. They Chevy V8 was surprising good, not far off the hybrid.
An EV work truck is driven by an employee who is paid by the hour. Every hour at charging stations means the employee is not being productive.
Aka Toyota's hybrid is silly. Only a benefit in city driving. But just buy the F150 lightning for that
@@larrysmith6797 but an ev truck can be charged overnight so you could be comparing zero time wasted charging v going out of you way to fill up once a week.
A year ago I was paying $3.50 a gallon for 93 octane. 8.1 gallons of that would've cost $28, not much worse than the EV.
Another non-point he made was "but it's much cheaper to charge at home," what about everyone else who owns a EV but do not have a charger at home because they rent or own a condo?
From what I heard the electric companies that maintains the grid is asking to add an addition tax to solar panel homes due to their lack of contribution that regular people pay for their electric bill. Enjoy it while you can the government always finds a way to protect their interest.
What about plug-ins it in regular socket through and extension cord?
@@AdlerMow can't do that at an apt, and most condos.
Unless you have a garage and a 220 volt circuit in that garage you can't charge overnight. You just can't charge enough on 120 volts, even on a small Tesla.
A year ago, Tesla Superchargers were about .24c kWh (wasn't watching EA chargers at the time)... everything got more expensive. A year ago, the F150 was not available. As to apartments, some work locations have free chargers onsite, a grocery store nearby me has free charging, a mall has free. charging. A friend put a onewheel in his frunk. He goes to charge and uses the onewheel to get home. He comes back in a few hours, topped off the car and drives home.
I wish that you would have put forward the sticker price also. Along with a total calulation for coast to own at 1 month,1,2, and 3 year.
An EV is $1,500 saving per year @ 12,000 miles. At 10 years that's $15,000.
Very informative video. I am curious if you can find an algorithm to factor in the cost of the vehicle into the calculations for cost per mile. The electric and hybrid will always top the "MPG" numbers but the additional cost of the electric or hybrid vehicle erodes from the energy cost savings.
Just consider the vehicle a fixed cost for a set duration of time or desired useful life in miles, eg 5yr loan, 200k miles, etc. Add in scheduled maint costs as semi variable.
You can then add both to the variable costs (gas/electric) or set the cheapest vehicle compared to zero (benchmark) & add the fixed cost over time premium to the others to reach fractional total cost of ownership.
This needed a Maverick Hybrid and everyone with 1500 lbs of payload!
Those things are getting 40 mpg I hear.
They can't make the 80000$ f-150 look bad.
@@ocrapo9327 I spoke to an owner who is getting 50mpg.
@@tylerd8516 $80,000 makes an F150 look bad.
They were comparing full size trucks in this video. So including a maverick really wouldn’t be apples to apples
This charging experience looks like a PIA, but being able to charge up at home is a big plus.
It's the public chargers. They're a pain in the butt and very buggy. The home chargers are "dummy" chargers actually controlled by the car itself. In my 2 years of owning a Ford Focus EV, only had it error out once during a thunderstorm.
Also, charging at home is dirt cheap. 10 to 15 cents per kWh. Could be $13 to go from empty to 100% in the long range lightning if you charge at home. And you don't care how long it takes. Just plug it in when you get home and it's full in the morning when you're ready to go out again.
just never go on a vacation far from your home... freedom multiplier.... score negative
Interesting, largely depends on fuel prices in your area. Where I live, diesel is $1.10 more than regular. So the difference between the GMC and the Tundra Hybrid would only be 20 cents. EVs are still obviously the cheapest to own compared to any ICE, just more expensive upfront (not including any tax credit)
But if the gas prices go down and it will, because more are getting EV’s…Supply will be more than the demand, which means cheaper gas prices…The upfront sticker is still not viable! Plus, you need to plan something for when a disaster comes to your place…If the power goes out, you will need to charge your vehicle…I don’t know, i’m still leaning towards gas…I don’t like waiting for hours to charge up as opposed to minutes to gas up.
@@kylorenjr1236 I’m leaning toward gas as well, mainly because I cannot afford a $1000+ monthly payment on a vehicle, which is what itd cost to get a hybrid or EV truck. $500 or less and I’ll be happy….
Current battery technology is another problem.Give a few years and the battery will hold less charge shortening the range.Hope the battery doesnt just decide to get super hot while you charge and decide to explode into flames.Caution...only charge your ev outside and not in your attached garage...just saying
@@edwardstimmell4860 battery tech seems pretty primitive at this time. Hopefully in the future different manufacturers will come together to make generic interchangeable battery’s where you can pull up to a “batter swap” station and replace yours depleted battery with a freshly charged one within minutes. That would be the ultimate…
@jake
You do realize that the tax credit is a small amount of savings in your pocket
You should include the price of the truck in those figures. The hour wait on the recharge kills it for me. My time is worth more than the money saved. Great video guys.
Their mistake was waiting that hour when nobody needs to. Now you think it takes that long when in reality every morning you wake up with a full charge.
On the occasional trip, you only charge enough to reach your destination which is why EVs always discuss the 20% to 80% speeds as the next stop is within 80% of the range.
As opposed to gas where you have to constantly stop and fuel, paying more and even waiting in line.
I wish TFL actually showed the benefits to EVs instead of reinforcing myths with their EV ignorance.
@Rob Bauer You'll replace batteries less than you'll replace engines. You're lost if you think paying for gas, oil changes, trans service, spark plugs and then replacing a motor is more efficient.
Just like ICE, you'll rarely keep the vehicle until motor/battery full failure. Batteries are fully recyclable so at least at the end of their life they have value.
I'll be waiving at you pumping gas while I fly by in my more reliable, faster and quieter car.
Batteries go bad after 8-10 years. Engines last way longer. Absolutely delusional
from a time cost perspective... that diesel actually wins. more expensive. but when you're "off the clock" cause you have to wait to fill up, you saved an hours worth of billable time at $90-$120/hr depending on your job for us self employed people. and the diesel pump didn't require you to try three different times. It just worked.
Or just fill up at home while u are sleeping and NEVER go to the pump?
@@TheRealDlo true, but not always applicable.
well if you mostly drive around 200 miles max a day the lightning will charge over night so you wake up everyday with full tank, also if your a carpenter who goes around fixing houses you can charge the truck while you are at customers.
Or you can always just charge at home. You start each day with a "full tank". It really depends on how much you drive in a day. Anything less than 200 miles/day, EVs are the way to go.
@@JustinKingOffroad depends on the individual for sure
I drive a diesel and while yes it might be a little more expensive at the pump, I've realized I've been filling up way less than I was with a gas V8. Gas would last a week and a half maybe 2 weeks if I'm lucky. My diesel truck lasts 4 weeks. So while I might pay for an extra 5 gallons at the pump I'm saving money and getting to drive further.
EV saves a little money so when you gotta pay for the battery replacement every 3-4 years your spending all that saved on a 16k plus battery, so you have to put that money aside or take out a loan.
EV Batteries last at least 10 years. I don't like EVs but at least be accurate and not ego driven
Ford battery is warranties for 8 years.
$6 saving and took nearly an hour. Will have less range as well. I’ll stick to my diesel for now until it’s priced off the road
Woulda been $22 savings I'd charged at home like almost all EV vehicles are.
@@T-Mo_ same if I’d filled up with veg oil at home
@@MrJamestoon sure
@Jan 6 was "Wall Street Putsch" part 2 I like how you went that far out of your way to try to prove EV’s are better than ICE engines.
@Jan 6 was "Wall Street Putsch" part 2 Great analysis! Thank you.
The more I watch these the more the lightning is really suited for the everyday driver and/or around town or short jumps to nearby towns.I'm currently putting in $100/wk just to and from work. Charge at home and at work would keep a few hundred bucks in my pocket to make that payment.
Not to mention after 300k-400k miles when your battery dies, you can put that $10k you saved into replacing the battery assuming the body hasn't rusted away. Tesla for example estimates battery lifespan at 300k to 500k miles and the motors to about a million
I have a Model3 Tesla,
I pay $8 to go 310 miles.
Saving of $5k/yr over a gas vechilce.
Average of 1 gas fill up/week.
Save also on oil changes 1x / 3 months
$50 every 3months
$200/year savings
I really think that's pushing it. Even people who don't go anywhere far do go places sometimes man.
@@TySchmidt bro what is the point in the gas savings if it's so unreliable you have to dump it back in? We just sold a 20+ year old Toyota car that never had a transmission or engine replacement. I'm seeing teslas with less miles getting batteries replaced. Shock absorbers, doorhandles.
@@TheAnnoyingBoss because in the time it takes for your battery to fail, you've saved more then enough to replace it.
If that Toyota lasts 250k, which is optimistic most ICE vehicles need headgasket work long before that and get scrapped. Say it gets 30mpg, which again is better than 70% of cars on the road, you will have put 8333.33 gallons of gas into it. If you average that to about $3 a gallon over the vehicles life, that's $25,000 in gas you've put into it. Then 20 years of oil changes at $100 a year is another $2k. So before coolant flushes, spark plugs, coils, etc you have 27k into it. Now imagine a truck owner that only gets 18mpg, they'd have $42,000 in gas alone into their car at 250k. I think for most people they'd rather keep the extra saved money in the bank and fix a battery every now and again until you get rid of it at 500-600k
I have equinox 2018 with 2.0T engine, two days ago I went for a trip total 300 miles majority of the way driving at 90 MPH mpg I got for the trip is 23mpg about 20 in the after noon on the way there. temperature was 110F. With some head wind.
You conveniently omitted the cost of the DEF fluid in the diesel. I realize it isn't much but still. But in the end, you can pay for a lot of diesel with around $15000. You don't have to install a home charger. For people that drive a lot of miles per year its a very compelling package.
it's about $.003/mile. They don't use that much DEF.
They also didn’t include oil changes
@@1slyboy DIY lube oil filter every 5000 miles ( my preferred interval) cost $42 so it's $0.0084/mile for that maintenance
So I understand this correctly...you tested a relatively street worthy version of the Lightning against off road focused versions on the Chevy, GMC, and Toyota. In the end, the Ford beat out the diesel, but not by that much. I'm interested to see how the Duramax would have faired against the Lightning if it were in a more street focused truck. That would be a more reasonable comparison. I'm not knocking the Ford. I think it's a much better take on electric trucks than GM has (and I drive a GMC truck BTW). This comparison was fun to watch but needs a part 2.
The numbers are flawed though, he didn't charge the EV at home, which would have been just been a nickel a mile at worst. Easily trumping the compeition.
@@coherentpanda7115 You can not charge at home when you are on the road away from home so your point makes no sense in this situation.
@@realpatriot5896 Actually, in this situation, you most certainly can, it was only 160 miles. For most daily-driver use, that's exactly how you are going to charge your EV.
All that being said, for those that DO need to take longer trips, the non-Tesla fast-charging situation is pretty hit-or-miss still and they really need to stabilize that. Tesla opening up to other cars is planned and should help a lot.
You’re all correct, but while charging from home is cheaper, it is also much slower (120v) unless you install a quick charger, which is pricey
@@raspillade6027 define pricy. The cars generally come with a charger that needs a NEMA 14-50 plug on a 50A circuit. Adding that to my garage cost me about $400 in parts and labor with a licensed electrician. Prices will obviously vary depending on placement of your breaker box. (I could have DIY'd it for under $100)
*TIME IS MONEY* Before I retired, I made $75 dollars an hour AND my profit sharing check was 10-20% of my annual hourly pay. Tell me again how much it costs to charge an electric vehicle when I factor in the inability to earn money during the charging time.
Time is money so how much do you loose waiting for the truck to charge on the f150 lighting. I think that's a fair comparison for day to day comparison. Does it need to charge longer than the average lunch break?
The vast majority of people that buy a lightning won't lose any time charging. Just wake up "full" every morning. If someone is regularly driving more than 280 miles in a day or can't charge at home then an electric truck isn't likely something they're interested in right now.
Great video ! But can you do the same test towing the same weight the same distance? Then add up the cost of each vehicle. Would be interesting to see if the lighting could even make a round trip towing without charging.
there is a video exactly like this. in the end, the EV cost 1/3 if charged at home, 3/4 if turbo charged (of the diesel). Of course, the EV was no where near the EPA figures.
This is false Estimates range from 10k to 80k miles depending where your electricity comes from.
Just finished a 2000 mile round trip (GMC Sierra, 3.0 duramax, 4x4). I averaged 28.9 MPG (hand calculated) bought fuel 4 times between $4.79-$5.19 (avg ~$5.00) 17.3c per mile. I used 1/4th of a tank of DEF, ~1 Gallon= $6.50 / 2000 = .003 per mile, 27% of the oil life which costs about $90 (Amsoil and Wix filter) = $24.30 / 2000 miles = 1.2c per mile. Used 6% of fuel filter life, (wix) .0001c per mile. So total per mile expense 18.5c. My best 25 mile avg was 36.8MPG, 50 mile avg 34.7MPG, and 400 mile avg was 31.2MPG. The best part for me was 750 miles of range per tank, although I never go below 1/4.
Great video and it really answers the question of which is better. The answer, the one you like the most :) . For those that value their time, they will probably not want a full EV because the other 3 vehicles were completely fueled up and ready to leave while Tommy was still waiting for his Lightning to charge. Most people buy one truck/vehicle to be their all purpose vehicle. Whether towing, taking cross country trips or just running around the City, you need a vehicle that is going to meet all of your needs. While I like the instant torque and power of the EV, I still prefer a gasoline or diesel vehicle because I can get going faster. Tommy could have had a real problem if none of the charging stations would have worked and he was alone. Great video.
If you are only going with in the Lightnings range for that day, what does it matter how long it needs to charge because you can plug it in at your house while you sleep were it is the cheepest to fill. So it may not work as well for a road trips but if all you stay in the battery packs range during a day it works great. Also DC fast charging any EV you should not go over 80% because the charging curve drops drasticly so it will double your charge time. TFL mentions this on thier pod cast but when they do their reviews they seem to forget. Well, Charging stations have had there hickups in the passed they are a lot better now.
@@chrishansel9324 you have a good point about only going within the range of the Lightning for the day, but in truthfulness, who wants to live with that kind of limitation. Per this comment we would have to eliminate one the most awesome things about life and that’s the ability to be spontaneous in my opinion. And God forbid you forget to charge it up at night, because how many of us have put off getting fueled up at night because we were tired. I believe anyone considering a full EV needs to be prepared to commit to changing their driving habits to accommodate the changes that come along with driving an EV.
@@chrishansel9324 about the ppl who park their trucks on the road? Where I live 70% of the ppl park on the road most trucks don't fit in driveways or garages what then? Tfl just showed us if gas prices were 1.25 a litre there no difference in owning a EV truck or ICE truck they're pretty much the same but the EV truck has a higher price tag
@@DrJeffM Yes, because it's so hard to plug my truck in when I get home. Or to wait 45 minutes for a charge on a road trip every 300 miles.
@@spacebound1969 acknowledge it or not but change is always hard for people. We can pretend like people are always proactive and on top of things but the truth is, we aren’t. Procrastination is a real human trait and a 45min charge every time you stop could add a significant amount of time to a trip compared to fueling up. As I stated above, EV owners need to come in knowing they will need to adjust their driving habits significantly to go full EV. But we are all entitled to disagree, another human luxury.
God bless
The BEST option, I've always argued, is a diesel-electric plug-in hybrid like the Volvo V70 that came out in 2012 as a demostration/prototype vehicle that was temporarily available in France, UK, and Belgium (limited numbers).
With a big enough battery to go 50-100 miles on pure EV range, you can cover basically, the average distance that Americans commute to-and-from work, and then having the diesel engine available for longer trips.
The best of both worlds from a fuel economy (and range) perspective.
I was thinking the same owning short range EV (86 miles) for the city, which was our commuter for 95% of the time. Then I bought Tesla with their Supercharger network. And 100% coverage of US, southern Canada and some northern Mexico. Over 12k miles of road trips logged and … now my opinion completely changed. Will never go back to carcinogenic petrol 😏.
yes, but diesel-hybrid configuration would kill electric cars by far which is not a current governments agenda...
@@giecy1977
NOx emissions and particulate matter emissions targets are really difficult to achieve.
That's how VW got caught with dieselgate and the researchers at WVU weren't even TRYING to look for defeat devices.
The manufacturers were making claims, and the WVU researchers were just auditing those claims to see if they were actually true. There weren't even LOOKING for defeat devices -- they accidentally stumbled on it.
But if they can hit those emissions targets, and it's a diesel-electric plug-in hybrid -- in terms of fuel economy, it would just totally dominate.
In HVAC, we used to get these comparisons of “a cord of wood”, therms of gas, gallons of propane, gallons of x-grade fuel oil, kilowatt hours, etc. that the Smart Salesman would convert to Dollars per 1000 BTUs per Hour, for their customers. We deserve the similar courtesy from you. Your tests are that important! Another “fun” (and potentially expensive) test would be “incline pulling a weight, before overheating”. ;-)
I tow with my truck and usually go 300-400 miles. I refuel once but fear it would take 2 charging stops adding a lot more time to the trip.
more like 3 charges to get that towing.
I hear this alot. And how many of these charging stations allow enough space for you to sit there with a trailer?
@@robbynelson3 there are none! Once more people drive EV you'll really be waiting in line! There won't be enough charging stations.
@@michaelace4739 "There won't be enough charging stations." yeah maybe if the plan was to not build anymore.
You would waste 2-3 hours charging on a trip like that. Imagine it is a weekend and you are towing to get on the water and wasting 2-3 hours of you rprecious family time on the weekend sitting in Walmart parking lot when you could be out on the water with a normal truck. It's all a lie/scam and people will soon realize. Maybe if the Truck supported 350KW charging it would be worth it but not currently.
When you guys do comparisons like this you should include the MPGe for the electric vehicle.
For those who were wondering the Lightning got 72 MPGe.
lol, no. no it didn't. cost per mile to drive each was:
6.2 gas truck = 26.6 cents per mile
hybrid truck = 23.3 cents per mile
Diesel truck = 19.25 cents per mile *
Electric truck = 15.19 cents per mile **
these figures aren't 100% accurate. * they didn't include the cost for DEF burned in the diesel
** this doesn't include the value of someone's time waiting an HOUR for the truck to charge. nothing screams CONVIENCE like charging for an hour for every 2.25 hours of actual driving. The reality is, once the cost of your time is included, the electric truck was the most expensive to drive.
@@MrSGL21 So it didn't get 72 MPGe because you didn't like how long it took to charge? That's an interesting way to do math. Is this that Common Core math?
and the EV only saved 6 dollars compared to the diesel...LOL...They should do a 400 mile test....oh wait.....the EV would die at 200km....LOL...LOL
@@johnteeple8454 on any road trip, despite the bullshit TFL showed you in their earlier video, driving any EV for anything farther than its initial charge is capable of, turns into a nightmare. at best you have a 5 to 1 drive to charge time, meaning for every 5 minutes driving, you'll spend 1 minute charging. thats at best. thats with a a very fast charger 130kw+. Many chargers don't actually provide that like the charge america station they were using. it took an hour to get 77kwh of juice.
@@MrSGL21 If you want to play the game with 'time' then continue with the service costs. That Ford will have significantly less service charges than any of the ICE vehicles.
The true reality is that very few people drive 160 miles per day. The reality is that most people drive less than 50 miles round trip per day. So when you get home, plug in the truck to charge, you will wake up the next day fully charged. That is something that you didn't put in for time. If you start everyday at full, doesn't that save you time compared to those that have to stop at a gas station?
So, if you are using your Lightning as a passenger car, it isn't too bad (excluding the pricing difference). If you try to use it as a truck, things change dramatically.
I think that for an economy run to be fully realistic you need to add the cost of the time it takes to charge the Ford. If an employer is having an employee use the Ford and then sometimes having to charge the car during work hours and just sit there waiting for the charge to finish it's a genuine cost. Not just the salary of the employee but also lost revenue sin e the employee just have to sit there instead of working. And also the time used when there are charging issues.
You wouldn't use EA for a work truck except in unusual circumstances. You would plug in back at the office and go home. The next morning it would be all charged and ready to go again.
@@JackRussell021 So why does Ford have a Pro version intended for fleet use? Why do Ford advertise the car as a work truck being able to power tools onsite if it's not meant as a work truck?
@@667Gurba it’d be for businesses or jobs that don’t need to drive 200 miles a day. That would be half the day driving.
@@JackRussell021 then why is ford only offering their extended range work truck in the lighting only to fleet vehicle companies?
@EspenLund Point well taken, but how would TFL ever be able to quantify your scenario? The salary of test workers could vary hugely; the revenue lost by the having the worker sit while charging would also vary hugely depending on the type of job/trade.
Time is money and the electric truck is sucking down at least 45 minutes per charge more than it takes to fill the gas or diesel and that was only for a 160 mile trip. I have a 3.0l diesel and easily get 600 miles per tank. The lighting is only getting ⅓ of the distance per full battery.
Just throwing this out there as well, some forum posts about the fuel economy of the old IDI diesel trucks have reported upwards of 20 MPG, and you can get similar range numbers to your 3.0l with the 2 tank setup of those old trucks. The point is, diesel might end up being the way to go overall, disregarding the emissions systems that all modern diesels require.
@@superstar64 I think a diesel electric approach would be more beneficial right now than straight electric. No need to stop and charge and the mpg from a smaller diesel generator would be huge.
@@jordanchailland8444
Soneone else said something about that in this comment section, and I don't know why nobody is trying that. The diesel would also be great for towing as opposed to pure electric, but the electric would be better for general driving with the diesel just being a generator. There's just a lot of possibilities with that setup that none of these companies are trying because a pure EV is probably more profitable in the longrun with their high repair costs and low overall lifespan.
Because the lighnting only has about 3.5 gallons worth of diesel on board in total energy capacity. 131kwhs total useable energy in the battery pack vs diesel at over 38kwhs per gallon in total energy. How far does your diesel go on about 3.5 gallons again? I'd bet it's about 1/3rd of how far the lightning can go on the same amount of total energy. 👍🏻
@@4literv6 that little capacity but it still takes up the entire truck. Where did we go wrong?
Sorry if missed it, but how much money worth of DEF for the diesel?
I'm concerned with tire ware due to excessive weight of total electric vehicles. Also, what is the life expectancy of the battery pack compared to conventional replacement of internal combustion engines?
Some battery pk can cost up to 20,000 thousand dollars
@Jan 6 was "Wall Street Putsch" part 2 Most folks I know will have traded in before they hit 100k miles because of new technology alone.
@Jan 6 was "Wall Street Putsch" part 2 A F-150 ain’t no high performance street car. It’s a “tool” for most drivers. The battery configuration is well over 1,000 pounds if you compare the curb weights.
@Jan 6 was "Wall Street Putsch" part 2 a charge cycle is every time you plug it in. And you rarely drain the full battery so most are daily miles topped off. So way less miles then that. Plus battery degradation, age, and hoping electricity doesn’t skyrocket in price.
@@coryschraner7065 Several Teslas and other EVs already proved batteries can last $300k miles without much fuss. And pretending like electricity pricing is an issue ignored today's crazy fuel prices and the 70s oil embargo. If OPEC turns off the faucet again the gas users are hosed.
Meanwhile I got solar and charge for free.
Can't wait for my sierra to finally arrive with the turbo diesel. it's been on order for a year. I had been second-guessing my choice with the cost of diesel climbing but glad to see it's still the best choice by far. Hoping to be ready to electric by the next one.
I had a turbo diesel, great truck but too many problems with def system thanks to EPA...
Just out of curiosity. How was the electricity generated that charged the truck? Thanks.
I’m really impressed with that Silverado diesel! When you factory in your time wasted charging. I think diesel is a way to go.
@Jan 6 was "Wall Street Putsch" part 2 I never said I wasn’t impressed with the lightning.
I think you are extremely optimistic on the charging cycles for the lightning. For a properly maintained battery you should not drain the battery below 20% and you should not top it up to 100%.
Your numbers for an internal combustion Diesel engine are wildly inaccurate!
Also have you talked to a Ford dealer about the availability of the lightning? What is Ford lightning wait times in your area? I’ve been quoted multiple years.
Two vehicles in our future: one EV for running around So Cal and for my wife's commute to work. Another Yukon with a Duramax for long distance road trips and my work in the field. We'd cut our fuel use by half easily.
I was just thinking about that the other day with the old ball and chain myself.
All right... I'm halfway through the video. Good job guys.
I think that, for my uses, the Hybrid makes the most sense. I'll have to wait to see the towing tests to be sure...
A way should be found to factor in the charge time as well. For most of us that amount of time isn’t free.
I’m a Toyota guy but I’m not happy with the economy on the hybrid Tundra. It should be better. At least 25. That is supposed to be the whole point of the hybrid. The RAV4 hybrid is much much better than the gas RAV4.
The “hybrid” for the Tundra was never meant as a mile extender but rather as ETorque found on a RAM. Simply put it’s a damn mislead on a weak “world beater.”
But the bigger the vehicle the less the mileage in comparison. So you need a Prius,, and have no capacity to carry things.
The test should be with half a ton payload.
Most of the time you will be charging overnight while at home sleeping
Thank you guys for an awesome review. Pitty, down here at the Southern tip of Africa, things like the F150 Lightning are probably still another 10 years away, at least!!! But that would be my pick if I could choose :-) - We get very different pickup trucks down here in SA anyways and they are virtually ALL diesel only! Hence, it was nice to see you guys throwing a diesel truck (albeit American) into the mix. Thumbs up!!
🤣🤣 great episode. Old men teasing Tommy. Love it
Oldje
You need to add that difference in price to fill up to the difference in purchase prices. How long does it take to save the difference in prices between the standard gas engine truck and the electric truck? Plus the cost to install the charging station at your house. It does not plug into a wall outlet.
It can plug into a 120v wall outlet, it just will be very slow. If, however, you only drive about 40-50 miles a day, it is fine.
For those needing/wanting faster charging, like me, I had a simple 240v, 50A outlet installed for about $400 (parts and labor by certified electrician) and I could just use the charger that comes with the vehicle. I happened to have purchased a 2nd, home charger (so I can keep one in the EV) and it cost me an extra $300.
Most folks will almost always charge at home, which is SUPER cheap, and, takes LESS time than having to stop at a gas station. For long drives, if you must, keep a second, gas/hybrid/diesel vehicle.
I would go with either of the hybrid tundra or the diesel.
Full electric seems a bit wonky with longer charging times.
Yeah bro but it's this weird V6 twin turbo hybrid. I want to stay out of mechanic shop more. My 15 year old accord is naturally aspirated and I've never been to the mechanic with it yet which is good because I can't afford it. I watched these guys Hummer EV turn into a brick right in traffic brand new
Interesting that much of the Lightning's power cost adavantage derives from spiking fuel prices.
And gas prices are dropping... most stations in my area have 87 for around $3.95/gallon. Whereas electricity rates are going up in my area. Might end up being more expensive to recharge an EV than to fill up a gas vehicle if the pattern continues
@@hiker0100 I don't think so. When the push was toward unleaded fuel they just jacked the price of leaded up to encourage everyone to switch. I think that's what is happening and will continue to happen with EVs.
Nice compare this is my second video I’m watching on your channel and for the first three trucks you started to build a table for the compare but you never wrapped it up including or showing the table including the Ford. Also often when comparing EV’s to ICE vehicles it is to include a cost factor of the vehicle itself say the cost per mile over a life of 100k miles. Combining initial cost + energy cost gives, I think, an other perspective on owning an electric vs ICE
Nathan properly using the supercruise for snack time.
Supercruise is only on the Denali not the AT4
This is a great test if you have nothing but a single person riding in these.
I'm sure the more weight inside, or that it's hauling, would put different pressures on the fuel usage. And the EV would end up costing a lot more to refuel.
Yeah, run this same test with each towing a 4000lb travel trailer. The Lightning will probably have to recharge at the halfway point
@@johntetreault Airstream and other trailer manufacturers are offering self propelled EV trailers so the tow vehicle doesn't lose any range.
@@theupscriber65 might be a good idea, we'll have to see how that pans out, as they're not yet readily available, and I can see all sorts of technical obstacles to be overcome
And take longer
Time is money so the lighting is not great. Can the ford run ac or heat while charging? And if so, how much longer to charge.
Basically, for me: If I was to never leave an urban/suburban environment, the EV/Hybrid makes more sense.
But if I wanted to do road trips through the middle of nowhere where gas stations could be hundreds of miles apart, give me the gas or better still the diesel.
I guess they need to bump gas prices even higher to make electric scam more “efficient”.
What scam? Cheaper and more reliable is a scam now? What oil company do you work for?
@@TheAndrwwJohnson What is cheaper and more reliable? And first of all since when automotive industry is about reliability? Do you really think that car manufacturers in 2020's do not know how or do not have technology to design and build reliable ICE cars that would last forever? They know how to do it for years, they just don't want to as that would put them out of business. I don't work in oil industry, I'm a car enthusiast for more than 30 years and I can connect the dots together. If you know a little bit about cars you probably know that vast majority of problems in modern cars are caused by electronic modules, and electronics is what makes them expensive to fix and maintain. Would you agree that EVs are nothing but purely electronic devices packed with that kind of modules? And finally EVs have absolutely _nothing_ to do with saving the planet, being green etc, they are actually quite the opposite, and this is why they are scam to me.
@@vwlukas EVs will always be more reliable than ICE, there's less moving parts period. The computers and electronics are similar in both cars built today and chips are one major reason new ICE cars are scarce.
EVs absolutely are integral in reducing pollution and improving air quality. It's impossible to remove cars so shifting them to a better energy source is necessary in transition.
EVs are more reliable, cheaper to run, have near zero maintenance, and are crazy fun to drive. There's no scam, they're better than ICE for commuters and soon last mile trucking. They haven't solved OTR yet but just because something doesn't solve everything on day one doesn't make it a scam.
@@TheAndrwwJohnsonEVs are good as city cars and for short trips. But there's a misconception that EVs are better than ICEs. In some ways they're worse because of the process of digging the lithium for the batteries and the way they cut through tires. Not only that but eventually the batteries are gonna need to be replaced which will lead to a ton of issues. EVs will never be as reliable as ICEs which have been around for a century. Just because there are less parts doesn't make a car more reliable.
@@epiclife2636 You're just stating more misconceptions. Batteries are already recyclable 100% from Tesla for example. Mining is no worse than drilling and fracking plus transporting gas, oil spills etc. EVs are already more reliable than ICE vehicles by having drastically fewer moving parts.
You have to get current info on EVs.
But how efficient would the lighting be in cold weather with snow because cold drains batteries more
I love your Ford contents (especially the bronco), from 🇵🇭
It's cute how manufacturers are pricing most buyers right out of the new full-size truck market who don't make 6-figures a year and aren't interested in an insane 72 or 84-month loan. It's also cute that with truck prices being so high, manufacturers don't feel the need to fill the void with smaller, affordable trucks, aside from the Maverick, which you can't get with a full-size bed.
You will have to get a 9ft trailer
I don’t understand man. With hopefully anonymity on the internet, I’ll say I make comfortably into 6 figures, and have no debt outside of a very small mortgage, and I would not be comfortable paying these prices for a new truck at all.
I truly do not understand who is buying these, nor how, let’s not even consider why.
$1k+/month on a depreciating asset (liability)… this is financial illiteracy.
At least in my own circle of friends, there are many of them that think a $750+ monthly payment is reasonable. That is insane to me and pretty soon we will have 10 year financing.
@@upshifter5316 you sound financially responsible. I don't think that can be said for a lot of people. Financial experts say that a vehicle payment should not exceed 10% of a person's monthly income. I have a feeling a lot of people spending this kind of money on a truck blow that out of the water, spending well beyond their means. That's mistake #1. Mistake #2: Financing beyond the duration of a vehicle's bumper-to-bumper warranty. The longer a person finances beyond the warranty, the greater the chance they'll be stuck with their high truck payment AND out-of-pocket repair costs. Not a good situation to be caught in. So let's do some simple math...
A $65,000 truck / 36-month financing (the duration of the bumper-to-bumper warranty of all of these trucks) = $1,805 per month. This doesn't include interest charges or the taxes and fees applied at purchase. For this purchase to be financially solid, it requires a $216,000 yearly income. That's a relatively small percentage of Americans. So how do the masses afford it? They extend the finance term out as long as possible, now up to an eye-watering 84 months. People who are financially illiterate, as you put it, won't hesitate. So now they're stuck with $773 per month payments for a torturous 7yrs. At the 10% rule, that still requires an income of nearly $93,000. That's still far above the national average income. So it's a pretty safe bet that only affluent, financially responsible people are buying these trucks or middle-of-the-road folks who are living so far beyond their means it's not even funny.
@@jza80king I'm guessing your friends are either making 6-figures a year, financing for far too long, or bragging socially then crying behind closed doors.
I was in on the Lightning but now I have many reservations. Most of the driving is local, so I could charge at home. I do however want to tow a boat. Here in Missouri from where I live a minimum of 2 plus hours to 4-5 hours of towing. Then figure in the lack of charge stations. It might not make sense.
Many trailer manufacturers are offering self propelled EV trailers so your tow vehicle doesn't lose range. But they are expensive and you have to charge them so that's extra money. Probably not as much as you'd have to pay in extra fuel to tow a trailer but it is an added cost.
Dude! Nathan is cracking me up! Solar wind??? 😂🤣💀
The canuter valve is always a great conversation starter
Glad to see you noted how much time you spent refilling the tanks and/or batteries. Time is money. We all know its going to be cheaper at the "pump" for electric, but its just not worth it to me when the time is factored in and with my current living situation/place of residence.
This is a good point. I put in 240V circuits/level 2 EVSEs at my house, but if your living situation precludes this and you have to rely on public charging solutions it makes EV ownership much less appealing in terms of cost and convenience.
For me, its Total Cost of ownership.
I have a new plug in hybrid Kia Sorento - At the end of the day, if its a "normal" day(
I rented a Tahoe for a week on vacation, I was actually amazed at the savings cylinder deactivation can get. Cruising at 75 the MPG computer would show 50 mpg when running on 4 cylinders.
It was also cool to see the engine go from 8 to 6 to 4 cylinders.
The downside is accelerated wear on the cylinder rings/pistons when not firing and no compression, but still moving at high RPM. I wonder how long these engines will last due to this. Most V8s are long lasting engines
They are absolute junk. Lifter and cam shaft failures and also bent push rods. I’d avoid them at all costs.
Great question
My old accord was a rental without cylinder deactivation and it's in suprising shape. Broken button Ill fix, a light bulb burns out every once in a while and I replace it. 175k miles no oil burning.
I have an 07 Silverado with cylinder deactivation, 151000 and no problems, keep the oil changed and they'll last forever.
i feel that pain of the 6.2L GMC, I've got that motor in my silverado and its just brutal for the in town trips it makes. Somewhat regret not going with the duramax straight 6 given the towing performance I've gotten out of the 6.2, but I wanted the nicer interior...
Shoulda went with the duramax
Just wait till your lifters go out
@@scotthall1381 you know that affects like 1% of trucks...
@Your Pappy Homey I think you should leave scientific data to someone else.
@Your Pappy Shouldn't you "technicians" be happy unreliable cars run your business? More business for me... right? Anyway, for every truck that pulls up to a shop, gm sells 99+ that dont.
on a hybrid vehical i like the idea of stop and go to be stoping with generated power braking, and starting on electric and maintaining speeds on fuel.
Need to know initial cost of vehicles as well. In early 2000's I was selling cars when gas spiked and we had people taking $10k hits to trade into more efficient vehicles. As the used car manager said ' $10k will buy a lot of gas'. Also, if you're looking at climate effects - you have to drive an EV 400,000 to break even with CO2 of gas/diesel when initial manufacturing is accounted for.
So extracting oil is a sin but the massive strip mines used to extract rare earth metals are wonderful and "green'. I don't mind EV's but pretending they are some green Unicorn is laughable.
You’re right, it’s not a green process, but there are enough reports out there hat prove that it’s still cleaner or greener than extracting oil. End to end, an EV is greener than producing and running an ICE vehicle, even if the EV is charged from coal, which isn’t the case in a lot of places in the US.
As an aside, we’re continuing to evolve battery tech, the parts that goes into them, for example LFP batteries, and the grid has been and will continue to get greener. Can we say the same for ICE? No. So when you take both those into account, it’s misguided to think that it’s not cleaner and getting better. Again, you’re not incorrect, it’s not a unicorn, but that’s what innovation is for.
I own a 2018 Volt and love it. Most Hybrids run the engine all the time. The Volt only runs the engine after the battery has drained.
If you daily commute is under 50 miles, your 100% electric (if you charge your car every night at home)
Not sure if all plug in Hybrids do this. I know the regular Hybrids run the engine as soon as it starts driving. What's worse, my old Prius would run the engine 100% for the 1st 15 mins or so just because a cold engine gets bad emissions. So, the prius gets crappy gas mileage for most commutes.
The Electric trucks are very functional fast and cool. I Catch lots of them coming from vegas against the wind and it is hard for them to reach their desired charge station. in the 15 and 40 It will specially become a problem when it starts to heat up in the summer. Lots of wind and weather above 100 degrees will theoretically decrease mileage once A/C is on full blast. Maybe you guys can do a test on the mileage.
I have seen two Teslas near Vegas that ran out of charge. My father in law also almost ran out of charge at least once going to Vegas (I live near Vegas).
That giant long hill climb coming out of Vegas heading west on the 15 is grueling when it’s 110deg out. Have fun in an electric lmao and how many charge stations are between Vegas and the coast of CA? After that climb you have another 4+ hours of driving. Not even a ton of gas stations.
@@pryme2013 You know that there is a gage in EVs telling you your range and battery level. There are also many apps that let you know where charge stations are located. So people that run out of charge in their EV are not driving their car correctly. Also I've heard that these gages in Teslas are not very accurate.
thats exactly what im wondering. take these things to phoenix and drive them in traffic in the dead of summer. then charge them and wait inside with the AC blowing.
Lightning has a massive battery. AC won’t be an issue.
Bought an F-150 Lightning in January. Traded after 30 days because of the messed up charging experience. Great truck though, ....especially the battery housing! Since the deal with TESLA on charging, I've ordered a new one for October delivery...
A very minor technicality, I know, but the Diesel also consumed DEF and that adds cost plus consumption and time.
What this helps make abundantly clear is that the Electric truck/Electric vehicle only makes sense if you can charge while at home or for example while in a store shopping. Being on a road trip and having to spend an hour or more at every fuel stop? Yeah no. Heck No.
I am surprised at how well the 6.2 did and that the diesel was more than efficient enough to offset the fuel cost difference. Those numbers would doubtless look even better with on-road trucks vs what was tested. That the diesel did so well here is also interesting because in HD trucks the cost of ownership (purchase, fuel, maintenance) is always higher with the diesel trucks compared to their gas brethren. Which means in that category there is no economic argument for diesel. It would be interesting to see a long term test of the 3.0 Duramax that evaluates this question.
That being said it also occurs to me that when testing diesel trucks for fuel economy these days you need to start including the cost of DEF.
Trucks are a really inefficient shape for a high speed vehicle, having the same size battery that the truck has in a sedan would be much more efficient. As an example that Ford F150 Lightning gets around 2 miles per KWh, my Smart Fortwo EQ gets 6 miles per KWh.
@@drzej3k794 there is no question the truck is an inefficient shape. However no matter how efficient your body there is no way around stupid long charging times and inconvenient charging stations on an EV road trip.
My in-laws line on a lake 4.5 hours from our house. It’s a no brainer piece of cake drive in a gas powered car. In an EV even if we could make it on a single charge we’d be stuck charging off a household outlet for days trying to get the battery charged back up. And there are no charging stations anywhere remotely near them.
Admitted EV fan here, as I own an EV6 AWD GT-Line. But, Tommy's experience with that Electrify America (EA) unit shows how much more cost effective it is to charge at home on a level 2 (240V) station, and how much further (non Tesla) charge stations have to go before they're truly practical for most people. The fact that I see a whole bunch of different car reviewers having the same poor experience at EA stations should be a wake up call to them to get their act together and start fixing things... At this point in time, they should be as seamless as Tesla super chargers - no excuses. As for my EV6, I do all my charging at home during the night (about once every 7 - 10 days). However, I didn't buy it to road trip, I bought it as my daily driver. So far, I wouldn't go back to an ICE vehicle, but as I said, things really need to improve drastically with EA!
ev6 is trash
You view it pragmatically, not like some starry-eyed fanboy. Your post is believable and realistic.
I think they're in a huge expansion push in a new technology (relatively), and they're going to have to learn the maintenance schedule for the system, including software bugs.
We don't notice it, but the gasoline pumping system has a routine maintenance cycle that the gas station owner has to follow, and when their pumps are under maintenance, we just go to another pump or station.
I just hope EA doesn't end up like many wind turbines, they get built because of the tax incentives, but don't get maintenance and repairs when they should because there's no tax incentive for that expense.
You're absolutely right about the issues with charging. However the EV naysayers would've said the same thing about ICE back in 1915. Gas stations only existed in major cities and along the best of the rudimentary highways that existed at the time. Trains and horses/wagons were still the best options for long distance travel. Today's EVs are at that equivalent place in history as ICE were 100+ years ago.
I think the best option for the next 10-15 years is PHEVs as this provides the flexibility needed for this period of transition.
Unless you build more power plants have fun with rolling blackouts
seems to be a pretty awesome electric truck - just needs better battery tech for the range
Which will then reduce it's payload, batteries will always be heavy.
The 59 minute charging time you'd already be 40+ miles down the road or at your destination enjoying your vacation meanwhile you're $25 turned into $35+ on snack food, waiting for your car to charge.
Would love to see TFL get a GMC Duramax for a long term test
Sitting at a charging station for an hour, the future....😂
Except you don't have to sit at a charging station unless you want a full charge?
Also, charging in the future will be faster and more efficient than it is today...😂
@@BS-vd4hd It will likely be much more expensive as well, as more and more people switch to electric.
My truck is 20 years old and I can fix most things on it for under a grand, unless they warranty the batteries for decades and regulate the cost of charging stations.... Oh, then there will be road tax for at home stations and if you are a renter, and if you only use it as a second vehicle et. cetera... There's your quagmire. Charge it at Yosemite, let us know how much that costs. There was a kid that drove a Nissan Pulsar around with gas can in the back that also worked at the park and that's how he paid for his climbing addiction. Rescuing tourists that thought they knew better than to pay almost $6/gal when the national average was half. Small picture outlooks are getting the rest of us into nonsense.
Why do I feel like when we all convert to electric, all of a sudden electricity will be expensive
Gotta make their money back form all that lost fuel tax somehow. I would be stunned if they didn't start taxing electricity to make that lost revenue back. The best part of that is, you'll feel it filling up your vehicle, and in your everyday living. Double whammy
Because you understand the basic economics of supply and demand. Using electricity to power our vehicles instead of oil creates more demand for electricity. However, we are not increasing our supply. On the contrary, we are reducing our supply at the same time by eliminating coal and natural gas electric plants. Solar panels that produce for a few hours a day can't make up the difference regardless of how much we wish it were so.
Feel like we have missed the boat and should have been many more hybrid's before full electric. Or we find out after this electric push we find taking the best of both worlds as hybrids is the answer?
The thing is if you want to reduce the nation's fuel consumption, trucks and SUVs are the best place to put a hybrid drivetrain, not econoboxes like the Prius. Unfortunately the US uses MPG. That's actually the inverse of fuel consumption. So the the bigger MPG gets, the less fuel savings it represents. Improving an econobox from 35 MPG to 50 MPG (a 15 MPG improvement) only saves you 0.86 gallons per 100 miles. Improving an SUV from 18 MPG to 25 MPG ("only" a 7 MPG improvement) saves you 1.56 gallons per 100 miles. Nearly twice as much per mile driven.
Shortly after the Prius was introduced, manufacturers tried to introduce hybrid SUVs. Unfortunately, a misguided environmental movement ran a publicity campaign shaming the automakers and buyers away from them. All models were dropped from the market except Toyota's Highlander Hybrid. This misstep has probably caused us to burn billions of barrels more oil over the last two decades.
@@solandri69 most "environmentalist" initiatives are actually the wrong solution, just look at the Ethanol boondoggle. I'm buying a hybrid maverick for my next vehicle.
if you use the same specs they got, but with the cost of gas here in western NC, the cost is different. Gas = $35.56, Hybrid = $26.99, Diesel = $31.61 Also, did they have to use premium in the GMC? and Mid-grade in the hybrid? I would like to see the same test with just regular gas to see if any difference. I really doubt the GMC v8 requires Premium. Is it a high compression engine?
If the GMC was running Regular gas, it might have got a smidge worst mileage, but for the extra dollar per gallon, and I bet you don't see any better performance from the Premium gas too. it's just not worth it unless you are running the high end, high compression engine like in the BMW's, Mercedes, etc...
I would love to see a MPG test in same vehicle with one trip in premium and one with regular gas. to see if there is any difference and if it makes up for the price difference.
I watched another channel (I know TFL is the best though) and they did a cost of ownership on the lightning, but no one has really talked about battery life cycle and cost of replacement.
I would love it if you guys looked into that in a comparison. We had some old fleet vehicles that the batteries were done after 7ish years and the vehicles were basically worthless. Had to pay to get them out the door. They were Hybrid cars so the batteries were not even that big. I'm wondering what a full electric like the lightning will cost to replace batteries. I'm guessing that little Duramax will outlive the batteries 3 times over and it was already cheaper...and I'm a Ford fan.
Heard "guesstimates" of 3 or 400,000 miles, but it's too soon to really say, in any case the battery has an 8 year warranty.
Tesla has 1 million mile cars already.
Seen a video not that long ago of a guy in a Tesla that was about two or three years old and the batteries were shot and they wanted 15k ish To replace it would not warranty, so he destroyed the car
@@fredbarton1926 If you mean the one they blew up with 66 sticks of dynamite, it was 9 years old and he could have replaced the battery and sold it for a profit, but he made more money from RUclips. He also removed the battery and motors before so probably made some money selling them as well.
A Lighting Raptor!!?? It could happen Tommy!! See what happens in 4 or 5 years... Lightning Raptor sounds interesting!!
Ford has a full EV platform they intend to reveal next year and deliver for 25 alongside the “classic” lightning. That platform will definitely have a raptor
For the diesel, add in costs for the emissions fluid. And how much does it use? My VW TDi used 2.5gal over 10k mile as I recall. I heard trucks use more.
This is what I've been saying, diesel efficiency outweighs the extra cost of diesel and it's cheaper to run then a gas equivalent
Not at 1.50 more a gallon...
@@richfarfugnuven6308 just depends on the gain in fuel economy. If it’s a significant jump in mpg, it’s more cost effective to purchase the more expensive fuel.
Don't forget the higher maintenance cost of the diesel, oil changes are more expensive and frequent fuel filter changes add up
diesel is definitely cheaper to run especially when you consider you have to spend 18,000 dollars to replace the battery 10 years later in the EV....and its not uncommon to rack up 250,000 miles on a diesel....LOL.....probably would have to replace 2 batteries in a EV to get that...LOL...LOL
@@johnteeple8454 and also when battery gets old 6-7-8 year old don't get the miles until needs charged.