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I'm a man. If I had transitioned to "become" a woman. No matter how many hormones I might have taken. No matter how many surgeries I might have undergone I would never be a woman. I would only be an imitation woman. And the same applies to women who transition to "become" a man. No amount of arguement on the part of trans activists will ever change my mind. Facts trump feelings always. In cases of true gender dysphoria* the absolute last option should be the knife. And if someone believes th hey are trans because of a mental health issue we should not be affirming their issue. At some point in the future it may be possible to rebuild an individuals body so that they could actually become a genetic man or woman. I have no idea how that could be done but if possible by then we will have basically acquired the powers of gods. *The overall rise of young people claiming to be Alphabet gender/sexuality versus the data we have from past generations leads me to believe that social media is playing a large part in this today. And I use the word Alphabet simply because I can not keep up with the additions.
Have you ever asked people the following: *Biological females should not compete in males sports.* See how people react to this one. Because sadly we've seen the real life instances of people born female and transitioning wrestling against other females. Families protest! People forfeit matches! What do people want? It seems more and more to me that if you ask people both questions (Not just about men but also about women), their answers will conflict. I suggest if you really want to see if people hold consistent beliefs, ask them BOTH questions to see if they hold a consistent standard.
FINA rule is based upon when someone transitioned, so if you transitioned before puberty then you can compete in woman’s sports. This will therefore be used to argue for earlier transition instead of a principled opposition. And it’s therefore not a win for anyone opposing the Marxist deconstruction of sports.
This is the third or fourth time i try to watch one of your videos or get five minutes into one of your videos and then all if a sudden the video stops buffering. I reload, i close it and open it again, nothing. It just stops mid sentence or doesn’t load at all. I think this is very suspicious especially given that literally all other videos are working just fine and i only encounter this issue when i watch your videos. Very interesting stuff btw i enjoy the elegant simplicity of the statement you’re making. I often challenge ppl in my personal life similarly. Not for any particular reason though, just because i feel like being a dick sometimes i guess. But i like how you do it, very thoughtful.
What's hilarious is that none of them seem to realize that if you eliminate "women's sports" as a category altogether, you eliminate natural women from sports inevitably.
Exactly, if you have a category fastest wins, men will just always go through. These students, I know they're young but they don't seem to use much thinking.
It's not just the young though. I know adults in their late late 30s and 40s that have this mindset that disregard biology because of a moral obligation they feel to protect lgbqt freedom (that's my guess, I don't actually know the underlying reason - i dont think im far off though).
Yes exactly, what the hell is even going on here? I feel like I lost 50 IQ points by listening to the arguments of both sides here 🤦♂️🤦🤦♂️🤔 first guy says it's up to the organization but I am not nutritional, the 2nd guy says there should be 3 categories (even though 1 out of 30k or 1 out of 110k people identify as trans) and the last girl says, biological advantage? So what? 🤦♂️🤦🤦♂️... help me please 🙏🏼
I'm not entirely sure that's true, at least in the long run. I kind of wonder if the problem is that most of the sports that we care about were invented by men. I wonder if there could be other sports that gave more value to the physical attributes that women are better at. If there was a sport where you won by having good flexibility, women would dominate it. If there was a sport where you won by being able to withstand G-forces, women would have an edge. I am sure people who know more about bio-mechanics than I could think of other examples.
“We could eliminate gender divisions and see who wins” - YES that was literally sports for 4,500 years, hence why no women ever used to compete in ancient olympics !!
The differences between the physical capabilities between the sexes are so painfully obvious that you have to live in an alternate reality to dismiss them. To your point about the Greeks, I have read that women in most of Ancient Greece were treated more like women who live under taliban rule today. This was not uncommon in the Mediterranean at the time. The exception being in Sparta where they were educated, competed in sports (with each other) in the nude same as men, spoke freely in public, participated in public and civic affairs, and could be seen in public without a veil. This shocked many visitors from other city-states to the point of offense. I am no expert in ancient history, so some or all of this may be incorrect, but it surprised me when I read about it.
I agree with what you're saying. The thing is pretty much every biological woman in sports I've seen knows there's a difference and wouldn't agree to create one gender division.
Love how people seem to think that “current testosterone levels” is the ultimate proof of fairness, and not muscle density, size, bone density etc. If it didn’t matter whether someone was man or woman to be good enough to be on a team, then there would be no female soccer players. I’m gonna remind you that a U15 boys team beat the world champions womens team like 7-2. By that standard she made, all women would be replaced by like 15-20 year old guys.
+A Poocumber Are you reminding people that a generous group of professionals chose not to get hyper-competitive against a team of kids, you misogynist incel? And, idiot? Any elite-level female athlete would embarrass you in every way.
To be fair I don't think a lot of people are aware of much any physical differences between men and women besides hormones and breasts, general height/size. I didn't know about the difference in bone density, muscle density skeletal structure, until I did my own research.
@@jadensmith4607 I mean, the bottom line is, men will always be born to be physically superior to women, thats just how God designed it, its literally also basic biology. Anyone who denies such a simple truth is demented
It is so strange to see people who have never participated in any kind of physical activity give an opinion on how fair it would be for men to compete against women. The more they talk the more confused I am with their reasoning.
💯 But then there are those that have played some sports growing up and feel they have validity in this argument. Even tho they never played any contact sports. Or ever competed against boys or men. There's theory, then there's practice. It seems today's society thinks theory is enough.
I don't have a problem with anyone having an opinion, but I do have a problem with how careful they were about their choice of words. It was not a robust opinion put forward by any of these folk.
"I don't have to be a veterinarian to know a dog when I see one" - one does not need a history of participation in sports to know that men don't belong in women's sports. It is a matter of basic biology, equity, and legal definitions under Title IV.
Exactly, my first thought was «Of course, the two people who clearly seem not to be athletes at all find it ok to let this happen. Funny how it is always those who are not impacted at all who do not see the problem.»
@@terfalicious The argument is one step further. The correct analogy is : «You will recognize the dog sure, but not know how dangerous he is, or how to take care of it». It reminds of Serena and Venus Williams regarding tennis. They thought they had a chance against men until theory had to face reality/man in a game. In sports, I think those who never played high level sports do not realize how big the gap is most of the times....Let alone, the physicality in sports like hockey, football or MMA where it becomes just dangerous.
The woke activists have not done 1 hour of sports ever in their life...dont even watch it...they know nothing of the argument, they just talk in "abstract" according to their "principles" (T-women are women, period, no buts or ifs)
it's true these people don't seem to understand what it means to compete in any sport. The commitment to regulation, grading etc and fair play totally elude them!
It's a little infuriating watching them stumble through their thought process with nobody asking them why women's leagues were formed in the first place.
Yeah Peter annoys me with his follow up questions. There are so many easier and better and more logical questions you could ask with better phraseology.
AGREED!!! I've seen a previous version of this experiment (at Cal Berkeley). Don't let Cal Berkeley compete against Capital University in this as a competition because, Cal Berkeley will "kill" this group! OMG! Folks really struggle to articulate their thoughts and beliefs, aren't able to substantiate either and perhaps, don't even know the difference. If the concern is about equitable/fairness in sport this is a no-brainer. The dumbing down of America... I'm all for acceptance and inclusion but, only to a degree. Lia Thomas, when competing against male swimmers was ranked 300! She kicked biological females butts. Why? It's simple science - the change in the two biological sexes through puberty give bio-males a distinct advantage. If we're talking about candidates for jobs, I'm all for full trans inclusion.
That girl has clearly no passion for sports or anything related, yet her stance was so bold! Anyone who actually competes (especially in contact sports) knows that her arguments are ridiculous. She has political and ideological values that she will never stray from because she is so hardcore indoctrinated. 100 truths about sex would not have changed her mind.
She’s the typical lgbtqia+-*^. Doesn’t really watch sports, doesn’t care about the actual women who bust their asses trying to get into the sports world, and only cares about the alphabet!
I think what most people don’t understand is that testosterone is not the end-all be-all of things defining physical traits like strength and overall fitness. Going through development and puberty as a male changes the shape of your bones and musculature, a change that confers a significant and undeniable advantage to those individuals, something that does not change after someone transitions to become female
You forget the fundamental bedrock of their viewpoints: there is no difference between men and women. That is why they can proudly say that a woman is defined by the individual.
I (male) think a lot of people who advance this kinda ideology lack a certain perspective... When I started doing Taekwondo, there was a girl in my class who for the first month beat me every single time because she had three years experience on me and had competed provincially (overall she was a tremendously talented athlete). After a month I started to catch up... After 6 months she couldn't and still hasn't been able to beat me ever again. We're roughly the same height, she weighs a little more than me its clear that she is significantly better at Taekwondo but... the physical advantages I have gives me enough oomph to win every time.
You can see the ones who disagree on the left have never experienced 30 minutes of competitive sport, or phisical activity in general, or just walking... They have no cognition of the real world, of their body, of their strenght and their limits. Tha ancient used to say "mens sana in corpore sano" (a sound brain in a sound body). It seems to me that all the woke bullshit has an appeal on people who never entered a gym or lifted a weight, that never confronted with the material world
Yeah but she’s a girl and girls are women and some women are girls but some boys are boys that are girls that don’t have the same strength as some girls who are boys who are girls that are not as strong as some boys who are boys but play w girls who are girls that play w boys. Got it?
But notice its always people that never even thought about a sport in their life let alone at the highest level were you work and bleed and sweat your whole life and for a woman they have to work twice as hard only for a man to come along and alen Iverson "we talking about practice" them out of a life long dream
@@fritzhaselnuss7852 What exactly would you describe as a "wrong thing" in a discussion like this though? what makes an opinion right or wrong? As a few people said here, most people view these discussion from their personal point of view and believe their opinion is the right one, but at the end of the day there shouldnt be any wrong opinions, no?
Yes, because the 2 that disagree have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to competition. Even in timed sports, men are usually much faster than women. Marathon running is a clear example. There races are separated by 2 or 3 minutes but male and female athletes have a difference of nearly 20 to 30 minutes.
7:39 I feel bad for biological women athletes who train their lives with hard work and determination only to be shut down by random people out in public who think trans-women can compete and win in womens sports. It's very sad
The problem here is none of those people seem to understand what the advantages are of being male in sport, it's not all about testosterone. They have been lied to
All of them have never lifted a finger in their life if it wasn't to pick up a fork. You have to never done sports to even think that someone born as male doesn't have any advantage against biological women.
to be fair most people dont go through life spending a lot of time what it means to be a man or a woman. You tend to focus on YOUR existance and YOUR perception so understanding where people are coming from or why rgey are holding certain views is important. And I realize that without the necessary background I shouldnt be allowed to treat people medically cuz I m not qualified....doesnt prevent me from having an opinion and my vote can very much affect how profecional health care workers have to do their job as can currently be seen in the US
@@fritzhaselnuss7852 the problem is these radical left ideas run rampant through all western institutions, with very little resistance, so it's trampling all over scientific practices, it's anti-science, and that is dangerous for both the patient and medical practitioners
They haven’t been lied to… yes ofc it’s not ALL about testosterone, but that is a big piece of the pie. Muscle mass, body structure, etc, all add into the advantages of being male.
When I was 10 my sister who was three years older use to beat me in a lot of physical sports. 2 years later my sister hardly challenged me physically in any way.
These “non-athletic” people have zero understanding why there are men’s and women’s sports. The fat woman truly believes Lia Thomas has no biological advantage, that’s it’s just a fluke because “some people are better than others.” I would genuinely like to know if she honestly believes what she’s saying, or if she’s so brainwashed that she’s unable to process basic biological facts. This is absolutely unbelievable and terrifying to watch. I can’t tell if they’re truly being honest, or if they’re just trying to fit in with the narrative. Either way, it’s utterly horrifying that this level of indoctrination is possible to impose on “adults”. I still hope everyone comes out and says “gotcha!” And it was all parody.
This system is designed to show them if they reasoned into their position of if they hold a dogmatic one. Peter helped her understand that her position had nothing to do with performance. Skinny people hold the same opinion she does (see the video on Portland confrontation). He’s doing important work to serve these students more than their professors have.
@@NealGilbert1 Not to mention how performance fluctuates based on how well a person is feeling day-to-day. You'd have to constantly test to figure out what bracket a person belongs to every week.
This is very difficult to watch. We are watching people that have distorted reality so great that there is no basis for understanding anything anymore. I am in shock and disbelief. The answer is a simple no with no explanation needed. We have got to get back some agreeable form of reality.
Watching his previous video with the really complicated question, there is a massive difference when you have very smart analytical people think if the question vs people doing it be feelings but have poor arguments.
What about competitions among people from different genetic lineages? If I'm not mistaken, short-distance track events are heavily dominated by men with West African ancestry, whereas long-distance races are heavily dominated by men with East African ancestry. Runners from all over the world dedicate their life to this sport but remain uncompetitive. Do we need to sub-divide the male category in this case?
It kills me when the lady keeps arguing that transgender women are women so they should be able to compete in women's sports. The problem is that transgender women are not women, they are males who identify as women.
I love the hillarity of the skill based argument. Imagine seding people by times in high school competition for sports like swimming and track and say good bye to a biological woman ever getting a college scholarship again.
I’m so glad this channel has been growing so quickly in the last month, there’s not enough content exposing the ideologies of universities and it’s crazy
@@stevejones5075 All of this insanity is coming from universities. You reflect the knee jerk insult culture of the woke because you cannot argue with reason or facts, which don't support many positions advocated by the social science advocates and administrations at universities. Therefore, they simply attempt to shut people up by shouting them down, reputation ruin and insults, as demonstrated by your comment. Social media companies appear to have a higher proportion of woke people relative to the general population and they advocate and promote the same bad ideas with censorship. Evolutionary biologists have provided ample evidence against some of these ideologies and, therefore, following the science is not an option - in most cases.
Because my daughter was the only girl in a fencing event a few years ago, they offered to let her to fence in the men's event. She didn't actually have to, she would have been given 1st place by default without doing anything other than being registered. She came in last place in a group of 6 or 7, but still got 1st place for the women's event. Men should not be in women's events. There are plenty of mixed tournaments for them to participate in. Also, for all of the men who think trans "women" are women, are they willing to date them? Are they women enough for sports, but not women enough to date? Why haven't they eliminated the weight classes in boxing?
Re: heterosexual men dating transwomen, what I have seen when the question is posed to them is that they’ll say “No one is forced to date anyone they don’t want to.” Basically they just dodge the question. Of course in reality no actual heterosexual man is going to date another trans-identified male. The people who repeat mantras like ‘transwomen are women’ are people who haven’t lived much life yet, either because they’re very young or because they spend most of their time online, or they’re just dishonest.
I agree, let’s ask that question. If this trans woman is so “woman” is enough to be in women spaces. Would you be willing to date this trans individual? Both with or without gender reassignment surgery!
@@Rosie20102 I find it funny, the idea that a trans woman is “a kind of woman.” Well, what kind? The kind that no heterosexual male would date/screw/marry? The kind that performs a caricature of femininity? The kind that gets a boner from “gender euphoria” when trying on a dress in the women’s changing room? What *kind* of woman is a transwoman, really? They’re not really any kind of woman-they’re men who wish they weren’t men.
I cant believe when I was younger I cared about what people thought of me and what they thought. I never knew how complelty insane and literally mentally retarded a majority of society is. Wow man I was actually the sane one who let sarcastic mean bullies ruin my life. Sad story but true
I love when Peter asks… what evidence would make you move to another line and people say “none”. Faith is belief in the absence of evidence… how is that different from a delusion??
Faith is the acceptance of the reality of God, which cannot be known purely through the natural reason of our limited minds. This gender ideology stuff is brainwashing and a denial of reality.
Might just be my opinion, but the first guy didn't seem like he really had thought about the topic all that much and was just standing where he stood because of "activism". What a great way to go about our decision making process.
Exactly! He literally only went to the extreme to avoid being chastised at school later I bet lol. I wonder how this would go if peoples opinion were anonymously answering.
I would like to see the question, "is it fair for a girl/woman, who has trained for years, to be one of the top women athletes in her sport and category and is now expected to compete against a biological male?"
One of the most interesting elements to all this is how so many (presumably) feminist, cisgender women have no qualms whatsoever about throwing other (presumably) feminist, cisgender women under the team bus.
What is a cis gender?? How many genders has this society come up with now?? Lol the young people want to seem so enlightened but it is just deceived. None of these people would ever compete in any sport that co trains any endurance. Quit trying to appear more intelligent than you are and soo open minded.
@@Phisherman86 It certainly is envy and it goes beyond athleticism . It also includes their lack of a personality and the fact that they are in general, fugly as hell.
@ Cheryl Templin I am using the regressive Left's terminology to make a point. This is no indication I agree with their suffocating and ludicrous ideology. There's an old adage about making assumptions. Would you like a refresher course?
If biological men can compete in women's sports, why have 'women's sports'. Just have sports. Also interesting that the two people who think men should be allowed to compete, clearly have never played a sport in their life.
It's interesting how an entire movement that wants equality for men and women are advocating for an agenda that will ultimately ensure (if things continue the way they do) that men take over women's sports altogether.
The bracketing of people in sports based on skill + weight class would ALSO essentially eliminate women's sports at an elite level, since all the higher-based brackets would consist of men.
Exactly what I was thinking . Then people will complain and ask why woman and trans people aren’t competing in the top levels and scream bigotry and misogyny.
Let's look at a sport where weight is used. If someone is assigned female at birth but transitions to being male, should they wrestle males or females?
And what about people right at the line. You are either going to be last in one class or first in the other. The sandbagging to get in the lower class would be immense.
@@malirk I don’t think a female would even need to transition. Let’s say there was a female wrestler who was so good that she can beat the top men in that weight class. Top men being the key words. Not beating the 500th ranked man from time to time. Then she should be allowed to compete against men. Same would apply to a woman who transitioned. And somehow if that happens people wouldn’t have a problem with it. It’s not the same thing as males transitioning to females. Males are born with physical advantages. Take a male and female at the same height, weight, physically fit, and both trained the same amount. The male will out perform in basically every category, so when a male transitions they will have certain unfair advantages. Do I feel bad for the women who were born as biological men that they have very few places to compete in sports and that they feel bad. Yes. I do. I’m sure it’s a horrible feeling. However, I also feel bad for the women who feel like they are cheated, or will be cheated out of winning. It’s a tough predicament and all this is so new to everyone. Maybe it’s time and will take time for everyone to get used to it. Or maybe it will be advances in science that allows biological males to be the same as biological females on a truly physical level, for lack of better words and understanding. We will get there tho. People will grow to learn and understand and accept trans women competing in sports. Especially, with the advancement in hormone studies. And especially if the data and studies prove it. Or the data in the future will prove that biological males without a doubt have certain biological advantages no matter what advancement in hormones. And will be dominant in physical activities over biological females. Then maybe everyone who supports trans woman competing in sports can accept that maybe just maybe that this is unfair to biological females.
I think it’s hilarious how the current college aged student apparently thinks that because they’ve made it to college that they’ve been bequeathed with knowledge. As if, without doing any actual research on their own, they just assimilated information. As if making it into college means they now know this new information about complex ideas that they didn’t know before. Like wise by proxy. It’s unreal actually
@@alphafitter4699 actually that is not the phenomenon I’m pointing out. In the 50s or 60s, when they were teaching high school students how to think instead of what to think they arrived at college as if there was a whole lot to learn. Nowadays it’s “ummm…that’s settled science…” so there is no actual research necessary on their part. Yes I knew everything at that age but it was about living on my own not about something like the physical differences in people that call themselves trans that are biologically male and will always have inherent physiological advantages over a biological female when it comes to sports and strength in general. The empirical evidence on that matter has been available for quite some time yet college age kids currently just act like that information doesn’t even exist.
@Somewhatskeptical Theres enough evidence out there on this issue that the simple act of seeking it will reward anyone that finds it. On the Bible thing, you can no more prove the negative of what your evangelical friends believe than they can prove the positive of what they believe so that example doesn’t work at all in this instance.
@@caseybrown4360 Science knows that science is not settled. It is important for students to run the double slit experiment for them selves, collate, their findings and report. Now days even if they do this work, they are told what to think in different areas. If they disagree they are ostracized and down graded. From when I went to college it seems the environment has changed. We were taught some things and the professors guided our discovery with most everything else.
@@bearlemley I don't think it is the environment. It is just that social science is not like the hard sciences. And while they try to use scientific methodologies, it still remains mostly philosophical given the subject matter, and is often based on subjectivity. It is why for example with the trans classifications, it is what "they self-identify as"...rather than any objective attempt at classification of sex and gender. So it isn't "they are told what to think", it just falls that way because any nutter can make a claim and it must be respected as "true". It isn't science.
@@neuuser7071 So if someone has Swyer's syndrome they have a uterus and vagina but have XY chromosomes. They'll generally look like males unless they have hormone therapy. Should someone with Swyer's syndrome wrestle men or women?
I'm so dissapointed whenever I see a woman saying that trans women should be able to compete in women's sports. All those years of fighting for women's rights and yet we're so quick to hand our spaces back to men. Disgusting.
Thank you for your on going project to try and bring civil discourse to universities. From outside of the university environment there has been far too little civil discourse for a long time. And a big thank you for your work with John and Helen for exposing the lack of integrity on the part of some "scholarly" publications. The Rape Culture at the Dog Park was classic.
@@drpeterboghossian These videos will have more of an impact on society than 100 years of in-person teaching at PSU. Please keep up the great work and keep growing those subs!!
+mpetersen6 So you're looking for civil discourse in support of grotesque fundie bigotry? Why? You are endorsing a disgusting, putrid, unethical, intellectual fraud.
It would be interesting if they asked this question to actual NCAA and professional athletes. Normal people have no skin in the game and they haven't worked their whole life to be stripped of their achievement.
7:55 as an European growing up I played alot of football (soccer) and let me tell you there is a huge difference between male and female football. National women’s team are losing to u-14 (highlevel) boys’ teams. Men and women actually have very different hip structures which makes football a game more suited for men.
I've watched 3-4 of these by Peter (which are great). It's interesting to me how the question of fairness to the biological female athletes is never considered, or at most is hand-waved off as not a valid issue. If the top awards in a college sports nationally are mostly held by biologically born males, why would the biological females bother competing? If they can't win scholarships and Olympic metals, why have the female classification at all? Why are we ignoring the massive push from the 80s for women's sports in college? It seems to me that having male sports and then female + trans athletes sports starts to sort out as nothing more than male varsity and male junior varsity sports like in high school (United States).
My favorite so far and keep in mind I'm new here, is the one where the social workers were screaming and flipping him off then refused to be part of the experiment only to be part of the experiment lol. Priceless.
The brilliant part of these exercises is that it’s not an ideological battle about the claim itself. It’s about unveiling the (often flawed) reasoning individuals have in forming their opinions and revealing why people cannot have productive discourse on these topics.
Exactly. Where many of these end up is the revelation that one, or sometimes both, sides are not interested in facts which do not support their feelings. He often asks something akin to “if I produced studies showing your belief is false, would you move one step the other way?” and the answer always ends up “no” from a certain crowd.
The inability to change one’s mind based on counter empirical evidence is a sign of ignorance and should exclude one from educational assistance from the government.
Nice to see that this discussion was devoid of any hyperbole about it being transphobic to even broach this topic, or that it might be "triggering" to certain people. Everyone was calm and civil and respectful. Well done by all participants.
Sure, but it was also devoid of pretty much anything, with no belief diversity. There were no arguments made really, just statements of belief. They actually all believed the same thing. The guy standing on disagreement was attempting some form of dialectic ie thesis antithesis synthesis, where the synthesis was just run in the mill social constuctionist view on these things. He seemed rather pleased with himself lol
Triggering? What a weak and feeble species we are becoming. How about we start aiming to be our best, most robust selves instead of enabling weakness by coddling? The conversation was so calm and civil they failed to achieve anything. One must risk offending in order to critically think. I am sick of these labels, such as transphobic, which are designed to shut conversation and discussion down. I can strongly disagree without being phobic about any topic, but these folks were so careful with their words so as not to be labelled. That is not a healthy society.
@@kazzana9013 i believe this was a civil exercise and was THE best if not, one of the best way to rationalise ideas to the different parties. If we have enough people sharing this around, my guess we will get the best outcome for everyone. Fighting fire with fire isnt always the best way. We are intellectual social creature.
Holy. Fucking. Shit. Are they in college? The lengths those two go to avoid the actual questions is amazing. That guy in the plaid goes ten-miles around the question. ... like watching an intellectual car-accident.
"Well, my first argument is that transwomen are women". OK, so we know you have no critical faculties and just want to recite the liturgy, and/or be a "good" person by trading whatever critical faculties you might have for an overdose of empathy. For goodness sake, transwomen are transwomen. They are males who feel like females or are for whatever reason drawn to the idea of becoming females. But they aren't actually adult human females. Obviously. We should respect their feelings and what are natural inclinations to them up until respecting and accommodating their nature starts to infringe on other groups rights, such as the right of actual women to their own sex segregated spaces. I personally would have an anonymous referendum where only women get to vote and if the vast majority of them say transwomen are entitled to the same rights they have by birth, then fine. But I strongly suspect that if that ballot was held most women, unimpeded by the "progressive" dogma that looms over us all waiting to "shame" us into silence, would vote to preserve their rights to their own bathrooms, shelters and sporting divisions.
Very well put, the whole argument (terminology, balance between empathy and logic, etc.)...could'nt do better myself... LGBTs need to acknowledge that the majority of ppl does not reject them or the "idea of the different"...they reject the super-woke and super-cringe positions and incredibly ABSURD concepts that only a small super-loud bunch of crazy activists are promoting. (and so stop to call T-phobic everyone and everything 1 second after someone challenge them in a discussion)
The problem with the “there are variables among females argument” is that they are BOTH FEMALE. As a whole, Biological males hold advantages over females - ie bone density, reaction time, speed, strength, even hand eye coordination.. which is why Lia Thomas beat the girls by almost 40 seconds in a single event. And unnaturally taking hormones doesn’t change that and definitely doesn’t add credibility to the variables argument.
I think another useful distinction for the argument is that, while it's true that there is variation within a group, the specific variation cannot be predicted ahead of time. However, the variables which are important for competitive advantage can be easily predicted in trans women (all the stuff you mentioned).
@@malirk if they can cut it wrestling biological males then yes. I wrestled females during my high school wrestling time. Mainly because there weren’t enough girls for a team but now that’s changed they have an option. Society “discriminates” all the time… there are different leagues, weight classes, age groups, etc. I am not saying I deny their ability to live or exist or be happy, however notice when Lia Thomas was interviewed she said I don’t care about how people feel “I’m happy now”. Which is at the crux of the problem, we’re putting the wants of a select few over 1/2 the worlds population. The reason there isnt just an open league for sports usually is because biological males hold a distinct advantage as a whole (yes of course there are outliers) but there are biological differences and it isn’t fair to have biological males that hold said advantages competing against females. Just like it wouldn’t be okay for me an almost 40 year old man to start dunking on a team of 12 year olds because “I identify as a 12 year old”.
So to your point, we know that testosterone is not the only factor in men's physical advantages over women, but, hypothetically speaking, let's pretend it is the only factor. The upper limit set for men [transwomen] in many of if these organizations is WAY higher than any woman can achieve naturally, even in those rare instances that a woman has a DSD that enables her body to produce her higher testosterone. So in order to make it equal we would either need to allow women to take exogenous testosterone, or the upper limit would need to be set comparable to what we see in women, which no man would ever be able to achieve regardless of how much he suppresses his testosterone. So it's INHERENTLY unfair to women to allow men to compete against them. The activists will say it doesn't matter if it's unfair because it would be transphobic to exclude men from women's sports, and that tells you all you need to know about this movement.
So, if according to the woke, gender and sex are separate things, then we should just separate the sports by sex and not by gender. Simple solution. Additionally, every single participant who is in favor of biological males competing in woman's/females sports tends to exclusively think about that person's wants, needs, and desires, while completely ignoring the actual women that the trans person would be competing with. My personal criteria is this - anyone can be and appear whatever they want as long as it doesn't interfere with lives of other people and the society in whole. When your ideology, gender identity, sexual preference, etc. beings to negatively affect other people - that's where the line needs to be drawn. Cool, you can claim to be woman if you were born a man and appear feminine and all that, but if you now want to change in actual women's locker room - that now negatively affects other people.
Bingo. I would just point out that it is not merely a question of woman's sports but of all women's spaces. The worst ones being access to women's shelters and women's prisons.
It's always the LEAST athletic people with the LEAST real world experience in sports fighting for this. It's purely ideological ignorance of reality. In BJJ for example, the men would beat the women probably 99% of the time in the same belt and weight class. I would really like to see the people fighting for this demonstrate their opinion, go do a sport you can all do, have the girls against the girls and the guys against the guys, then swap and see what happens. If you still think the same thing after then fine. But MOST of them would hopefully find it very dificult to continue to fight for this afterwards.
I'd like to see three athletes debate this. The basketball example was a case in point - the fact that she thinks height differences between men and women are comparable to height differences among men... it's just ignorance. Of biology and of basketball.
It's gross how quick these people are to give something away that other people worked hard for. Something that may mean nothing to them but means so much to others (female athletes).
@@JS-tv8sf that's the whole issue. At what point do we violate someone else's feelings or rights in the name of fighting for someone else's? "We don't care about your rights" is all I am hearing. So why should I care for yours and vice versa. Yawn
Exactly, and I hate it when they sports shouldn't be about winning. They can't even understand that for professional athletes, sport is a job, not hobby.
Yeah, the luddites bury themselves in vapid, fact-free, scientfically unsupported, sheeple rhetoric, just following along until they fall off the cliff of intellectual lunacy.
What agenda does he have to push? This is literally a question about basic biology, and the 2 individuals on the left clearly showing that have absolutely no clue about biology. There is scientific, even biblical information further stating the physical differences between men and women
I am so depressed by the invincible ignorance of these 'students' - how can they have gained admission to college? They appear to know no facts, and are comfortable with accepting unquestioningly a decree from 'an authority'. It is terrible.
Most college kids have a school level of 5th grade. 99.99% of people on this planet would die if put out into the woods and left to survive on their own.
@@cmmndrblu I agree. But Foucault would actually be rolling in his grave at this transgenderism BS. He believed that identity is socially constructed, which is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what the modern wokies say. Wokies say gender identity is 'my truth' and that only I know who my true inner self is, not outside forces like social gender norms. This is a direct contradiction of Foucault. These modern wokies can't even get social construction theory correct!🤣🤦♂️
The obvious solution for this whole dillema is to have male (not men) sports and female (not women) sports and Open sports ,(all sexes) . It's always said that sex is biological and gender is a construct so make the sports sex based not gender based . The distinction in the divisions in sports was never about how one feels or identifies. It was rooted in the differences in biology so the organizations just have to make sex based. This way there wouldn't be a social issue about it at because in the words of non-binary and transgender activities "sex is not gender" and what they have is a gender identity not a sex identity. I would love to see a similar video asking people the question about divisiona becoming sex based and not gender based. It literally bypasses the whole gender identity issue in sports . AND same thing with bathrooms . Make them sex based not gender based.
Let me say that absolutely LOVE the way you have this set up. No debate. No screaming. No yelling. Every point is heard and no disrespect is given on either side of the aisle on whatever subject matter you're talking about. Awesome job.
Yh but.... I think all mentally sound individuals were shocked that people STRONGLY believe men should be able to participate in female sports. What has this world come to
Sorry Logan, If a 8th grade boys soccer team beat the national womans team, this red flannel chick still wouldn't get it. The only solution is for a mass number of men in all sports claim to be a woman and replace all biological women in all sports...only then would there even be a chance that mentally ill people like this get it.
Same happens in basketball. Our local club U14 boys team beat our professional state women’s team that had an ex Olympian and 2 other national players.
I love how Peter just lets people articulate ones position on topics. This is what school and learning used to be. Personally they should just merge all athletics into categories of type of event. Not gender. As after the trans debate someone will identify as g or h and win the new category of competition. Causing never ending changing of rules and category. Just let the best athlete's win not based on gender identity.
Or we can flush the woke crowd back to where they belong and work on the inflation and economic depression they created, the 99 want option 2, it's just a matter of making them break the law once... I've learned this from climate narcissist's.
You would find that they would naturally segregate themselves into gender because gender differences in sport are huge. Any sport that requires upper body strength men would wipe the floor with women
Metric of classes? Easy: XX-chromosome vs. XX-chromosome; XY-chromosome vs. XY-chromosome; and a third mixed-chromosome class. One can identify as any gender one likes, but one must compete in one's appropriate biological category.
I just have to point out, while I agree in the vast majority of cases this would be adequate, the best definition of sex is the organisation of reproductive tissues towards the production of gametes. Usually the SRY gene is on the Y chromosome and triggers masculinisatiom in utero. Androgen Insensitive chromosomal XY individuals with AIS would appear phenotypically female and not experience male puberty. It would make more sense to include these individuals as female since testosterone would have failed to masculine them.
@@cmmndrblu I think taking these things into account and attempting to qualify or disqualify a participants eligibility for competition based on them would give the sport more of a science experiment feel and less of a contest feel. Kinda ruins the enjoyment of it for the participants and onlookers as well.
These people clearly don't have any idea of how sports work. I have been practicing Kick Boxing, Savate and K1 for about 10 years and I have sparred with girls that were more skilled, more experienced, more technical than me. They were faster and had more stamina but I still had to exercise extreme restraint not to knock them down or hurt them quite badly. I have 100% respect for those girls as fighters and athletes, and its precisely because of that that I would never compete with them in a ring.
I'm a woman on acne medicine to block male hormone ALDOSTERONE.. Women have male hormones. And, Men are always going to be physically superior medicated or not. Forget Lung capacity, red blood cell oxygen count, muscle mass, bone density, and lazy women. That's all transphobic.
10:25 the thing is, my dude, that you're clearly not an athlete. We are talking about people actually undergoing rigorous competitive training and enjoying the benefits of years of male biology. The swimmer dude/dudette was doing average before changing teams and now he's wrecking it.... It's pretty clear as the water he swims in
I can't wait to see how people answer after the swimming trans rule changes. Isn't it transphobic to exclude trans women who have not undergone hormone treatment? Doesn't excluding trans athletes who have not undergone hormone treatment show that sports are seperated on a basis of biology and physiology instead of gender identity?
@@terfalicious It is all in the phrasing with some of these people. A better way to put it and still push for this would be to say: We need to get males out of female prisons.
A trans-woman is a man that identifies as a woman. The fact that sports governing bodies allow men who have had surgeries and/or take hormones to participate in womens sports is absurd. A very small minority of trans-athletes need not negatively impact competitive womens sports. Allow them to identify as women, but mandate that they compete against men. Spectators may identify these people as they wish: some may identify them as women, while others may recognize them as men. Outside of the sports arena no legislation should compel anyone to enable a delusional/ill individual.
Nobody seems to realize the basic reason why we have categories in the first place. We have categories, at the most basic level, because some people are so genetically diverse that they cannot compete with each other, because one group would have 99,99% win rate against the other. And that's the point, there is no "competition" if the outcome is crystal clear from the start. So in order for sports to be both interesting and fair, athletes must be put in the position in which they can express their skill and the outcome is driven as much as possible by their skill and not by factors they cannot control or compete against. So that's the logic behind categories, some sports are divided by age, by weight, by gender, some by skill. That's because those are the main factors that define the result of a competition. We can't make a category for virtually everything like height or muscle mass because we would end up with categories so slim it would be impractical to even find athletes in some of them. So as a compromise we base our categories on the most influential factors, so there is still some biological advantage between the athletes of the same category. And to come back to the main topic, we are currently trying to understand how many criteria for the categories are being ignored when we let men compete with women and how much effect that has. The fact that you're not allowed to investigate the problem in order to figure it out and are instantly labeled as "transphobic" is dishonest in the worst way possible.
Jeez this is frustrating. Just ask if Mike Tyson was to identify as a women in his prime, would they be ok with him fighting biological women? Even after Him doing some hormone therapy?
"Perhaps the most dangerous by-product of the Age of Intellect is the unconscious growth of the idea that the human brain can solve the problems of the world. Even on the low level of practical affairs this is patently untrue. " ~The Cycle of Collapse: Fate Of Empires by Sir John Glubb
This needs to be said. The pro-trans woman in this video has normal vocal tonality (no uptalk), minimal defensiveness (her arms were crossed at the start but it could have just been nervousness), a pleasant personality, and appeared to engage in good faith. This is extremely rare. I don't agree with her views but she feels like someone you could talk to and make progress (on both sides) with.
You think you can make progress with that? 😂. There’s almost no chance when he have views that flawed and out of reality. Useless debating these kinds of people. You’ll lose every single time
I find these conversations frustrating because it seems like people aren't grasping or really engaging with the the situation honestly. To make the case for trans women in women's sports, you have to do two things simultaneously: 1. Explain why trans women should be included 2. Explain why cis men should be excluded I keep seeing arguments about why trans women should be included that could equally well be applied to why cis men should be included. The argument for trans people in sports isn't an argument against gender discrimination, it's an argument for a very specific amount of gender discrimination, and it really requires that you justify it from both directions.
The think they can argue around this by saying transwomen are women. Without explaining what definition of women they are operating under. The logical incoherence of these arguments is bewildering.
Peter only wants to challenge each individual to see if where they stand on the grid is in-line with their thoughts and why they are so confident in their stance. He demonstrates that probably, all 3 of them shouldn't be so confident in the stances they took based on the knowledge that they hold. Usually I see him probe more but the people here were being disingenuous and I think he realised that he wasn't getting anywhere productive. That's what I take from this.
I just realized that having people speak about sports that look like they have never played a competitive sport in their lives may not be a good idea. THEY CANNOT RELATE. It's like asking someone about getting robbed who's never had a penny taken away from them. Those 2 people are basically saying" WHY WOULD I CARE?" Lia Thomas is getting away with theft. They are displaying disingenuous empathy. They have ZERO EMPATHY for the REAL WOMAN losing to a MAN (Lia Thomas) and I am not sure why. Maybe because they have felt rejected their entire lives, just as the trans people have, and they find a home in the Misfit arena, which causes them to throw away rationality or logic. You can identify as a bird, a plane, or a tree, but why does one NEED to compete in sports as a female?????? Play as the gender you are born in for one hour and identify as whatever you'd like for the rest of your life. And the argument, "MOST PEOPLE WON'T DO THAT JUST FOR AN ADVANTAGE." Bro, most people won't commit fraud but IT STILL HAPPENS/ should we just allow the ones who do it to continue to? that is the dumbest argument I've ever heard.
The blonde girl has no empathy cause she is simply spitting out words implanted in her brain by the woke brainwashing process...these ppl are just "talking robots"...it's impossible to have a logical converstation with them.
Yeah, but honestly that's true for most topics. Ultimately I agree with the two "males", the sport organizations should live and die by their set of rules. Which means that some sports would not be viable depending on the rules they apply.
you realize that looks are deceiving (Maradonna never looked like a star athlete either once he took on the trainer position) and also that the legislators who eventually push such decisions through also never have participated in such activities before. So allowing non-qualified people to speak and air their concerns and views is not only necessary but required in order to educate them or change their minds.
There was no way I would have ever expected Ms. Milly Tant to choose "fk you!", I'm amazed that someone who has never played sports wants to eliminate gender based competition. It wants to make sports comps species based. Next problem, greyhound owner that is convinced it thinks it's a person, 400m world record 25.3 seconds a year later. Flipper destroys Phelps after clicking "I'm a man".
Great idea separate athletes by their top times.. Well, when Im qualifing ill underperform just by 2 seconds so when i compete ill push and get my medal. Genious idea there..
There was a guy at work who was thinner than me, smaller than me. He played games at home all day on his computer but he was much, much stronger than me, a woman. He could lift things I couldn't, and after that experience I have to say that men are just built differently. There definitely is an advantage.
That is just a fact of life...the problem is not to see it because you are litterally "indoctrinated" into a fantasy world of your own... (like these "students" are...I am using the " " cause you cant call yourself a true student if you dont have logic and critical thinking, but just listen and regurgitate acritically things that someone sais to you)
"I want the best to compete together regardless of gender" Juliana Pena, the current UFC women champ said she wants no part in fighting men after fighting a random guy and getting seriously hurt. Serena Williams said she still stick with women tennis citing a huge difference in power, timing and endurance. These college students who make this claims have never participated in competitive sports at a high level.
The skill-level argument is hilarious. Track and Field without sex classification would be crazy, the best times will all be men and trans women. How many categories would need to be created to be inclusive of biological women? Allyson Felix, the world's most decorated female runner wouldn't rank in the top 1000 if you eliminated sex.
I totally disagree with you. Felix would rank maybe 100000 maybe even more 00000 In track and field an elite woman times are equivalent to a freshman high school male.
The woke activists have not done 1 hour of sports ever in their life...dont even watch it...they know nothing of the argument, they just talk in "abstract" according to their "principles" (T-women are women, period, no buts or ifs)
Love your work Peter, hope you are working on a new book atm. What is often discarded in this conversation: Participating in a sport is not the same as competing in a competetiv event. You can participate in the training, you might join the team of your "new gender", but that is a totaly different thing than dominating biological females as a man, in an event that has maybe schoolarships attached to it or other benefits that you want to compete over. In addition, tho I´m not a medical doctor or a biologist, but my understanding of the differences in physique between males and femals, is that even if we group by mass, that is males and females, you would still end up with males being statisticly stronger due to the muscle mass in males in dencer than in females. So pound for pound, males are stronger.
I may be judging but all three look like they never played a sport in their life. The greatest female tennis player of all time Serena Williams lost to a 200 ranked men’s tennis player and has stated she would not want to play men’s tennis. High school soccer players have beaten top ranked women’s soccer teams. Men in mma would absolutely demolish a woman I. Mma to the point of murder. No woman would make a major baseball team. Swimming records by men far out rank women’s records. High school boys beat Olympic women records every year. Yet women could beat men In sports. Title IX means nothing if women and men sports were eliminated because it would be just men’s sports.
My freshman year of high school, they merged the P.E. classes into one coed class. This lasted less than one month, as one girl had her arm broken and another had two teeth knocked out and a broken nose.
@@robinthrush9672 Ultimate Frisbee (girl was bumped fell and broke her arm). Second one, field hockey ball to the face. Now could these injuries happen to males? Of course, just way more likely when girls try to compete physically against males.
The people debating had very faulty arguments on both sides and could not follow Peter's questions very well. However, it is incredible that these types of discussions are being held in universities. Having conversations with an open mind is so important for our society's health. Please continue doing this amazing work.
I agree with you comments. I would love to see more people start in the middle and then move based on the conversation. But...almost all of these students in Peter's exercises do not want to commit to any possibility of changing their minds.
@@bradspringer2372 Why on earth would any decently educated mentally sound person, agree that BIOLOGICAL MEN should be able to play in women sports. This should even be debated it is literally basic fuckimg biology. I have question for you. What would happen to a female that has the exact same weight, height, and skill level as Mike Tyson? Let me just answer it for you, there would be a 98% chance that the women is killed. I trust you understand why
I don't understand why trans individuals don't want to be pioneers and record-makers in their OWN leagues - just like women have had to be in the past. It's upsetting to see biological women with higher levels of testosterone used as an example to justify biological males (with modifications) competing against females, instead of those same individuals championing for ALL biological women to have the right to compete first. There is a reason why biological women and men have separate divisions within sports. Participation varies because of popularity and interest - there is a reason we see advertisements for the NFL in grocery stores during Superbowl season but nothing for a women's NFL. Being born a girl and growing into a woman is a different experience than being born a boy and growing into a man. Modifying your body to conform to a hormonal and SOCIETAL depiction of what they feel a woman is, does not change the lived experience. I have no problem with someone wanting to transition as an adult and I'll happily defend you if others feel the need to harass and disrespect your choice as you live your life in whatever fashion makes you feel best, but there needs to be an acknowledgment of the main differences when it comes to sex. I don't think anyone would happily call a mature child with adult experiences an actual adult and let them participate in adult activities with other adults, this is a similar distinction.
From what I've seen they never show Mr Thomas in a full frontal view. If Mr Thomas chooses to identify as a woman that's his business. He can undergo hormone treatments. He can undergo re-assignment surgery. But he will never be a woman. All he will be is an imitation woman.
@@TheHopetown So you have trouble recognizing sarcasm. The point is no trans woman has given birth. That does not mean that there will not be somebody in the future given possible* medical "advances" *In the theoretical meaning. Although there are activist surgeons talking about possible uterus transplants. I can imagine just what the side effects of the anti rejection drugs would be on the fetus. Self Abortion? And just where do they propose to obtain the transplant materials?
One problem in this discussion seems to be that none of these people seems to have experience in sports, or are interested in it.. there is so much evidence on that women can’t compete with men in sports, that’s a no brainer for every person who is interested in sports.. Serena Williams said it once „men play a different game“
The woke activists have not done 1 hour of sports ever in their life...dont even watch it...they know nothing of the argument, they just talk in "abstract" according to their "principles" (T-women are women, period, no buts or ifs)
15:47 so if Lea Thomas swims faster than females, why she doesn't compete within her skill level? I can give you answer: because in his skill category he was 400th
A school should run an all Male Woman's Team. That would shut up these folks. edit - Sex is Biological, Gender is Social. The reason Men's and Women's sport is separated is due to Sexual Dimorphism, a Biological fact. Thus the Sex should be the determining factor. The problem is the words "Man" and "Woman" are used to describe both definitions. This leads to much conflation. It is unreasonable for the vast majority to have to change their vocabulary for the benefit of a few people they don't even know. They are too busy just getting by.
@@relaxingsounds1386 I should have prefaced that statement with "According to Gender Studies,". My bad. I'm using their arguments and definitions against them.
I agree with this. Sports have always been divided along biological lines, whether it be sex, weight classes, or in cases like the paralympics, differing levels of ability. Many of the activists who are advocating for trans women to compete in womens sports are arguing so along societal or identitarian lines, but a heavyweight cant just identify as a featherweight, nor can an able bodied person identify as a paraplegic. Just because trans individuals choose to socially identify as a gender different to their biological sex, doesnt change the underlying biological fact. The best suggestion I have heard so far, is to leave womens sports to biological women, but run an open category along side it, presumably with some degree of regulation over testosterone levels and such, you could even have both categories run in the same event, similar to how different classes of cars run in the Le Mans race together, they share the same track but are only competing against others in their class. Imagine for example a swimming event with 8 competitors, one of which is a trans women and the rest biological women, they compete and at the end there would be awards given for the biological womens category, where 7 of the 8 competitors qualify, and then awards given for the open category, where all 8 (presumably) qualify. this way you have the best of both worlds, the trans athletes are able to compete and the womens category is still protected
Why handicap humans sports exist separatly? Why all humanbeings "normal" and handicaped, womans and mans and transformators etc dont rival in one events?
If we categorized by skill level as the two disagrees felt so good about, Lia Thomas wouldn’t be swimming against women. Lia would be swimming against mediocre college male swimmers and be ranked 400-500 just like when Lia competed as a man in college, though probably a little lower due to transitioning treatments. Also, the honest way to thought-experiment this would be to imagine that trans-women made up say 20 percent of a sport’s population. If they competed against solely cis-women, they would virtually eliminate cis-women from any meaningful level of competition. These arguments would be rendered moot and cis-female divisions would organically arise so cis-female athletes would have a platform to compete. We would then have a male division which would be virtually 100% cis-men, a trans division which would be 99% trans-women, then a cis-women’s division. Many of the commenters are correct, so many people involved in these discussions have no idea what it’s like to compete in sports. It doesn’t make their opinions poor by default but their arguments are definitely ideological and tend to be a bit clueless regarding how competition plays out in real life.
What does attacking the speaker's physical fitness/ad hominem attack add to the conversation? Does attacking someone personally versus attacking their position really encourage discussion? Or are you trying to shut them up as much as "woke" people try to stifle others?
@@Briaaanz I think he’s trying to say that people who’ve never participated in sports probably are not well informed enough to have such strong opinions about the issue.
The guy saying that there are some women that could beat him at a sport doesn't prove anything. Maybe he's a lousy athlete. Maybe if he and a woman were trained at the same level he would change his mind. These people cherry pick a woman beating a man here and there. Show me one women who trasitioned to be a man and is competitive in mens sports. There are none. Weight lifting, boxing, jiu jitsu, tenis, etc. not even close. Have an open for anyone and maybe another trans sports league. That would be fair.
"Then the empire so affected by moral decline grows weaker and more vulnerable to destruction by forces arising inside or outside of it." ~The Life Cycles of Empires
How many women compete in male sports?? There's a reason! It would be a waste of their time. That's like a male in a handicap sport! 😂 Exactly my point!
Husky folks and a smart nerd - probably not the best cross-section of sporting activities. However, as we all know (including Peter), they are what social media is comprised of - they are the tail wagging the dog. Well done Peter!!
I would like to see a similar debate, but before inviting people to join the debate ask them if they can define the statistical terms: mean, standard deviation and long-tail. I suspect that the conversation would go much differently if you only selected participants who understood what these terms mean and how they apply to men and women
Dividing sports into results-based categories would be a disaster for women. For women would never reach the top of the sport. They would be restricted to competing with men new to the sport.
I spoke to one of them who proudly said Peter Singer states steroids are the way to go to even out any advantage or disadvantage, his claim is Africans are winning too many running races, the irony of it all.
oh my gosh!! as an individual from a third-world country, these videos make me sad that postmodernism makes erstwhile intelligent young people appear and sound very stupid. I believe that rudimentary arguments like these are only revisited in recent times due to a lack of significant troubles in the west and other developed countries. Y'all are just too comfortable that these trivial and century-long settled issues are being revisited. this is just sad!!
PB's approach has significant Socratic aspects. By offering this opportunity to students, he is doing what ideally should be done by all high schools and universities. This demonstrates what effective dialog can achieve. Each participant can learn from another; but most importantly, as one assesses information and formulates new thoughts, they educate themselves. "Some people learn by listening--some learn by talking."
I like watching these Q&A seminar's. It would be great if the Uni's in Australia conducted them every now and again. As a student I feel a lack of intellectual stimulation during lecture's, which is worrisome for several reasons. Keep up the great work Peter!
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peter has a linkedin what a surprise.
I'm a man. If I had transitioned to "become" a woman. No matter how many hormones I might have taken. No matter how many surgeries I might have undergone I would never be a woman. I would only be an imitation woman. And the same applies to women who transition to "become" a man. No amount of arguement on the part of trans activists will ever change my mind. Facts trump feelings always. In cases of true gender dysphoria* the absolute last option should be the knife. And if someone believes th hey are trans because of a mental health issue we should not be affirming their issue.
At some point in the future it may be possible to rebuild an individuals body so that they could actually become a genetic man or woman. I have no idea how that could be done but if possible by then we will have basically acquired the powers of gods.
*The overall rise of young people claiming to be Alphabet gender/sexuality versus the data we have from past generations leads me to believe that social media is playing a large part in this today. And I use the word Alphabet simply because I can not keep up with the additions.
Have you ever asked people the following:
*Biological females should not compete in males sports.*
See how people react to this one. Because sadly we've seen the real life instances of people born female and transitioning wrestling against other females. Families protest! People forfeit matches!
What do people want?
It seems more and more to me that if you ask people both questions (Not just about men but also about women), their answers will conflict. I suggest if you really want to see if people hold consistent beliefs, ask them BOTH questions to see if they hold a consistent standard.
FINA rule is based upon when someone transitioned, so if you transitioned before puberty then you can compete in woman’s sports.
This will therefore be used to argue for earlier transition instead of a principled opposition. And it’s therefore not a win for anyone opposing the Marxist deconstruction of sports.
This is the third or fourth time i try to watch one of your videos or get five minutes into one of your videos and then all if a sudden the video stops buffering. I reload, i close it and open it again, nothing. It just stops mid sentence or doesn’t load at all. I think this is very suspicious especially given that literally all other videos are working just fine and i only encounter this issue when i watch your videos. Very interesting stuff btw i enjoy the elegant simplicity of the statement you’re making. I often challenge ppl in my personal life similarly. Not for any particular reason though, just because i feel like being a dick sometimes i guess. But i like how you do it, very thoughtful.
What's hilarious is that none of them seem to realize that if you eliminate "women's sports" as a category altogether, you eliminate natural women from sports inevitably.
Exactly, if you have a category fastest wins, men will just always go through. These students, I know they're young but they don't seem to use much thinking.
It's not just the young though. I know adults in their late late 30s and 40s that have this mindset that disregard biology because of a moral obligation they feel to protect lgbqt freedom (that's my guess, I don't actually know the underlying reason - i dont think im far off though).
Yes exactly, what the hell is even going on here? I feel like I lost 50 IQ points by listening to the arguments of both sides here 🤦♂️🤦🤦♂️🤔 first guy says it's up to the organization but I am not nutritional, the 2nd guy says there should be 3 categories (even though 1 out of 30k or 1 out of 110k people identify as trans) and the last girl says, biological advantage? So what? 🤦♂️🤦🤦♂️... help me please 🙏🏼
Bro I'm just saying let's let them get rid of women's sports so maybe more women will start opposing this craziness.
I'm not entirely sure that's true, at least in the long run. I kind of wonder if the problem is that most of the sports that we care about were invented by men. I wonder if there could be other sports that gave more value to the physical attributes that women are better at. If there was a sport where you won by having good flexibility, women would dominate it. If there was a sport where you won by being able to withstand G-forces, women would have an edge. I am sure people who know more about bio-mechanics than I could think of other examples.
“We could eliminate gender divisions and see who wins” - YES that was literally sports for 4,500 years, hence why no women ever used to compete in ancient olympics !!
Lol so obvious yet they do not realize it.
bingo
They're progressively going backwards.
The differences between the physical capabilities between the sexes are so painfully obvious that you have to live in an alternate reality to dismiss them. To your point about the Greeks, I have read that women in most of Ancient Greece were treated more like women who live under taliban rule today. This was not uncommon in the Mediterranean at the time. The exception being in Sparta where they were educated, competed in sports (with each other) in the nude same as men, spoke freely in public, participated in public and civic affairs, and could be seen in public without a veil. This shocked many visitors from other city-states to the point of offense. I am no expert in ancient history, so some or all of this may be incorrect, but it surprised me when I read about it.
I agree with what you're saying. The thing is pretty much every biological woman in sports I've seen knows there's a difference and wouldn't agree to create one gender division.
Love how people seem to think that “current testosterone levels” is the ultimate proof of fairness, and not muscle density, size, bone density etc.
If it didn’t matter whether someone was man or woman to be good enough to be on a team, then there would be no female soccer players. I’m gonna remind you that a U15 boys team beat the world champions womens team like 7-2. By that standard she made, all women would be replaced by like 15-20 year old guys.
watched that game. can confirm it was 9-2
+A Poocumber Are you reminding people that a generous group of professionals chose not to get hyper-competitive against a team of kids, you misogynist incel? And, idiot? Any elite-level female athlete would embarrass you in every way.
To be fair I don't think a lot of people are aware of much any physical differences between men and women besides hormones and breasts, general height/size. I didn't know about the difference in bone density, muscle density skeletal structure, until I did my own research.
Males competing with females in MMA would be extremely dangerous.
@@jadensmith4607 I mean, the bottom line is, men will always be born to be physically superior to women, thats just how God designed it, its literally also basic biology. Anyone who denies such a simple truth is demented
It is so strange to see people who have never participated in any kind of physical activity give an opinion on how fair it would be for men to compete against women. The more they talk the more confused I am with their reasoning.
💯
But then there are those that have played some sports growing up and feel they have validity in this argument. Even tho they never played any contact sports. Or ever competed against boys or men.
There's theory, then there's practice. It seems today's society thinks theory is enough.
I don't have a problem with anyone having an opinion, but I do have a problem with how careful they were about their choice of words. It was not a robust opinion put forward by any of these folk.
"I don't have to be a veterinarian to know a dog when I see one" - one does not need a history of participation in sports to know that men don't belong in women's sports. It is a matter of basic biology, equity, and legal definitions under Title IV.
Exactly, my first thought was «Of course, the two people who clearly seem not to be athletes at all find it ok to let this happen. Funny how it is always those who are not impacted at all who do not see the problem.»
@@terfalicious The argument is one step further. The correct analogy is : «You will recognize the dog sure, but not know how dangerous he is, or how to take care of it». It reminds of Serena and Venus Williams regarding tennis. They thought they had a chance against men until theory had to face reality/man in a game. In sports, I think those who never played high level sports do not realize how big the gap is most of the times....Let alone, the physicality in sports like hockey, football or MMA where it becomes just dangerous.
It's always the OVERWEIGHT Americans who have never run a mile that pushes this BS.
As a former division 1 athlete, this is disgusting to see.
The woke activists have not done 1 hour of sports ever in their life...dont even watch it...they know nothing of the argument, they just talk in "abstract" according to their "principles" (T-women are women, period, no buts or ifs)
That is because they are narc*ss*st.
JoeyBToonz man
#fatlazycunts
it's true these people don't seem to understand what it means to compete in any sport. The commitment to regulation, grading etc and fair play totally elude them!
It's a little infuriating watching them stumble through their thought process with nobody asking them why women's leagues were formed in the first place.
100%. There's a reason we have two.
Maybe an idea for @Peter Boghossian to ask that next time then?
Or how they would define a woman.
Yeah Peter annoys me with his follow up questions. There are so many easier and better and more logical questions you could ask with better phraseology.
AGREED!!! I've seen a previous version of this experiment (at Cal Berkeley). Don't let Cal Berkeley compete against Capital University in this as a competition because, Cal Berkeley will "kill" this group! OMG! Folks really struggle to articulate their thoughts and beliefs, aren't able to substantiate either and perhaps, don't even know the difference. If the concern is about equitable/fairness in sport this is a no-brainer. The dumbing down of America... I'm all for acceptance and inclusion but, only to a degree. Lia Thomas, when competing against male swimmers was ranked 300! She kicked biological females butts. Why? It's simple science - the change in the two biological sexes through puberty give bio-males a distinct advantage. If we're talking about candidates for jobs, I'm all for full trans inclusion.
That girl has clearly no passion for sports or anything related, yet her stance was so bold! Anyone who actually competes (especially in contact sports) knows that her arguments are ridiculous. She has political and ideological values that she will never stray from because she is so hardcore indoctrinated. 100 truths about sex would not have changed her mind.
She looks like a competitive eater 😂😂😂😂
All the fat has gotten to her head!! lol
She literally told him that if they had data and stats that it wouldnt matter. That is a problem.
@@jaimendivil8986 And even there she would get crushed by men ;-D
She’s the typical lgbtqia+-*^. Doesn’t really watch sports, doesn’t care about the actual women who bust their asses trying to get into the sports world, and only cares about the alphabet!
I think what most people don’t understand is that testosterone is not the end-all be-all of things defining physical traits like strength and overall fitness. Going through development and puberty as a male changes the shape of your bones and musculature, a change that confers a significant and undeniable advantage to those individuals, something that does not change after someone transitions to become female
Anybody want to guess what Estrogen even does to a masculinized body? (hint: it doesn't demasculinize it.)
most people understand that.
Being either a man or a woman is ingrained in every fiber of our being.
You forget the fundamental bedrock of their viewpoints: there is no difference between men and women. That is why they can proudly say that a woman is defined by the individual.
Men can't be women.
Only argument needed.
I (male) think a lot of people who advance this kinda ideology lack a certain perspective... When I started doing Taekwondo, there was a girl in my class who for the first month beat me every single time because she had three years experience on me and had competed provincially (overall she was a tremendously talented athlete). After a month I started to catch up... After 6 months she couldn't and still hasn't been able to beat me ever again. We're roughly the same height, she weighs a little more than me its clear that she is significantly better at Taekwondo but... the physical advantages I have gives me enough oomph to win every time.
You can see the ones who disagree on the left have never experienced 30 minutes of competitive sport, or phisical activity in general, or just walking... They have no cognition of the real world, of their body, of their strenght and their limits. Tha ancient used to say "mens sana in corpore sano" (a sound brain in a sound body). It seems to me that all the woke bullshit has an appeal on people who never entered a gym or lifted a weight, that never confronted with the material world
Yeah but she’s a girl and girls are women and some women are girls but some boys are boys that are girls that don’t have the same strength as some girls who are boys who are girls that are not as strong as some boys who are boys but play w girls who are girls that play w boys. Got it?
@@ejl74 , perfectly clear, sir...lol!
@@ejl74 😶
But notice its always people that never even thought about a sport in their life let alone at the highest level were you work and bleed and sweat your whole life and for a woman they have to work twice as hard only for a man to come along and alen Iverson "we talking about practice" them out of a life long dream
Dr. Boghossian, I'd like to see a group of athletes respond to this question.
and you expect to get honest answers and views when saying the wrong thing can terminate these people careers in a heartbeat?
@@fritzhaselnuss7852 What exactly would you describe as a "wrong thing" in a discussion like this though? what makes an opinion right or wrong? As a few people said here, most people view these discussion from their personal point of view and believe their opinion is the right one, but at the end of the day there shouldnt be any wrong opinions, no?
serena williams agrees with the doc
Yes, because the 2 that disagree have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to competition. Even in timed sports, men are usually much faster than women. Marathon running is a clear example. There races are separated by 2 or 3 minutes but male and female athletes have a difference of nearly 20 to 30 minutes.
+Dr.StephenH Just any group of athletes, regardless of whether they were already fundie bigots to being with?
This is not an exercise to find out who is right. This is a way to examine our own opinions to find out if we reasoned our way into them.
yep...and unfortunately, most of the time, you dont see any reasoning but a whole lot of dogmatism (as of today woke standards)
The exercise reveals stupidity and foolishness. It also tells me who to avoid vehemently.
Excellent summation. Thanks for watching! -PB Team
@@drpeterboghossian Thanks for doing this Peter, sometime come to WSU (Washington State) and do this here too.
@@drpeterboghossian Yet there was no reason. I'm shocked at how poor the reasoning was from both sides.
7:39 I feel bad for biological women athletes who train their lives with hard work and determination only to be shut down by random people out in public who think trans-women can compete and win in womens sports. It's very sad
Yep. It's a court case to protect girls now.
There are also a place in sports if trans people want to compete, the 'male' half of the sports are open for anyone.
And ALWAYS non-athletic people at that.🙄🤦
The problem here is none of those people seem to understand what the advantages are of being male in sport, it's not all about testosterone. They have been lied to
All of them have never lifted a finger in their life if it wasn't to pick up a fork. You have to never done sports to even think that someone born as male doesn't have any advantage against biological women.
to be fair most people dont go through life spending a lot of time what it means to be a man or a woman. You tend to focus on YOUR existance and YOUR perception so understanding where people are coming from or why rgey are holding certain views is important. And I realize that without the necessary background I shouldnt be allowed to treat people medically cuz I m not qualified....doesnt prevent me from having an opinion and my vote can very much affect how profecional health care workers have to do their job as can currently be seen in the US
@@fritzhaselnuss7852 the problem is these radical left ideas run rampant through all western institutions, with very little resistance, so it's trampling all over scientific practices, it's anti-science, and that is dangerous for both the patient and medical practitioners
I think that's it too. They really don't know how great the divide is with some sports.
They haven’t been lied to… yes ofc it’s not ALL about testosterone, but that is a big piece of the pie. Muscle mass, body structure, etc, all add into the advantages of being male.
Lia Thomas passed all the tests? For female athletics?
Not even a minute in, and we're in Crazy Town.
You didn't hear a Charlie Oscar Charlie Kilo is now a woman's part
Strap-on maybe, if you're in to that sort of thing.
Hey Lia Thomas is a handsome lady so don't let his big dong keep you from thinking otherwise!
Facts 😂😂
The only test she had to pass was actually testosterone levels and estrogen levels which is just absolute bs
When I was 10 my sister who was three years older use to beat me in a lot of physical sports. 2 years later my sister hardly challenged me physically in any way.
These “non-athletic” people have zero understanding why there are men’s and women’s sports. The fat woman truly believes Lia Thomas has no biological advantage, that’s it’s just a fluke because “some people are better than others.”
I would genuinely like to know if she honestly believes what she’s saying, or if she’s so brainwashed that she’s unable to process basic biological facts.
This is absolutely unbelievable and terrifying to watch. I can’t tell if they’re truly being honest, or if they’re just trying to fit in with the narrative.
Either way, it’s utterly horrifying that this level of indoctrination is possible to impose on “adults”.
I still hope everyone comes out and says “gotcha!” And it was all parody.
This system is designed to show them if they reasoned into their position of if they hold a dogmatic one. Peter helped her understand that her position had nothing to do with performance. Skinny people hold the same opinion she does (see the video on Portland confrontation).
He’s doing important work to serve these students more than their professors have.
3 ignoramuses trying to tell people about sports they never played, don’t watch, nor know a thing about 🤣
@@darbyohara Grouping people by time in a sport such as swimming or track makes no sense. Might as well give out participation trophies.
@@NealGilbert1 Not to mention how performance fluctuates based on how well a person is feeling day-to-day. You'd have to constantly test to figure out what bracket a person belongs to every week.
@@NealGilbert1 right the fat guy offering that idea has never ran or swam anywhere but to a hotdog stand
This is very difficult to watch. We are watching people that have distorted reality so great that there is no basis for understanding anything anymore. I am in shock and disbelief. The answer is a simple no with no explanation needed. We have got to get back some agreeable form of reality.
"Agreeable form of reality". Wow you really nailed it on the head with that statement!
So nailed it!
Watching his previous video with the really complicated question, there is a massive difference when you have very smart analytical people think if the question vs people doing it be feelings but have poor arguments.
What about competitions among people from different genetic lineages? If I'm not mistaken, short-distance track events are heavily dominated by men with West African ancestry, whereas long-distance races are heavily dominated by men with East African ancestry. Runners from all over the world dedicate their life to this sport but remain uncompetitive. Do we need to sub-divide the male category in this case?
It kills me when the lady keeps arguing that transgender women are women so they should be able to compete in women's sports. The problem is that transgender women are not women, they are males who identify as women.
I love the hillarity of the skill based argument. Imagine seding people by times in high school competition for sports like swimming and track and say good bye to a biological woman ever getting a college scholarship again.
I’m so glad this channel has been growing so quickly in the last month, there’s not enough content exposing the ideologies of universities and it’s crazy
this isnt because of universities, it's much more to do with social media. Stick to legos
@@fullyfb3847 which is why Steve needs to escape dichotic thinking. Not everything breaks down into "this" or "that."
@@bbbbbbb51 why don’t we. See trans men compete with men??
@@loudorge9076 good question, but we know the answer to that ha.
@@stevejones5075 All of this insanity is coming from universities. You reflect the knee jerk insult culture of the woke because you cannot argue with reason or facts, which don't support many positions advocated by the social science advocates and administrations at universities. Therefore, they simply attempt to shut people up by shouting them down, reputation ruin and insults, as demonstrated by your comment. Social media companies appear to have a higher proportion of woke people relative to the general population and they advocate and promote the same bad ideas with censorship. Evolutionary biologists have provided ample evidence against some of these ideologies and, therefore, following the science is not an option - in most cases.
Because my daughter was the only girl in a fencing event a few years ago, they offered to let her to fence in the men's event. She didn't actually have to, she would have been given 1st place by default without doing anything other than being registered. She came in last place in a group of 6 or 7, but still got 1st place for the women's event. Men should not be in women's events. There are plenty of mixed tournaments for them to participate in.
Also, for all of the men who think trans "women" are women, are they willing to date them? Are they women enough for sports, but not women enough to date?
Why haven't they eliminated the weight classes in boxing?
They are not women and never will be
Re: heterosexual men dating transwomen, what I have seen when the question is posed to them is that they’ll say “No one is forced to date anyone they don’t want to.” Basically they just dodge the question. Of course in reality no actual heterosexual man is going to date another trans-identified male.
The people who repeat mantras like ‘transwomen are women’ are people who haven’t lived much life yet, either because they’re very young or because they spend most of their time online, or they’re just dishonest.
Yeah they probably would date them. Men who say men can be women are freaks and likely gay
I agree, let’s ask that question. If this trans woman is so “woman” is enough to be in women spaces. Would you be willing to date this trans individual? Both with or without gender reassignment surgery!
@@Rosie20102 I find it funny, the idea that a trans woman is “a kind of woman.” Well, what kind? The kind that no heterosexual male would date/screw/marry? The kind that performs a caricature of femininity? The kind that gets a boner from “gender euphoria” when trying on a dress in the women’s changing room? What *kind* of woman is a transwoman, really? They’re not really any kind of woman-they’re men who wish they weren’t men.
I cant believe when I was younger I cared about what people thought of me and what they thought. I never knew how complelty insane and literally mentally retarded a majority of society is. Wow man I was actually the sane one who let sarcastic mean bullies ruin my life. Sad story but true
You were raised to care what everyone else thinks of you. We pretty much all are. It takes awhile to grow out of that.
I love when Peter asks… what evidence would make you move to another line and people say “none”.
Faith is belief in the absence of evidence… how is that different from a delusion??
Faith is the acceptance of the reality of God, which cannot be known purely through the natural reason of our limited minds. This gender ideology stuff is brainwashing and a denial of reality.
@@marcuscaballarius2159 What evidence would move your belief in God one line over?
@@jerrygatts3467 Any material evidence. But there isn't any of that.
Faith is the recognition of what is present, whether it be visible or invisible, comprehensible or not.
@@jerrygatts3467 If you really listen then Christopher Hitchens could move you one line away from the Belief that there is a God
Might just be my opinion, but the first guy didn't seem like he really had thought about the topic all that much and was just standing where he stood because of "activism". What a great way to go about our decision making process.
Exactly! He literally only went to the extreme to avoid being chastised at school later I bet lol. I wonder how this would go if peoples opinion were anonymously answering.
@@Fanuc_Operator1990
I suspect some of the strongly disagree would be moving towards the center.
Went there cause there’s chicks on that side
He's definitely been a part of a sports team...
@@elonmust7470 lol. I was thinking just that. I don't think any of them have.
I would like to see the question, "is it fair for a girl/woman, who has trained for years, to be one of the top women athletes in her sport and category and is now expected to compete against a biological male?"
One of the most interesting elements to all this is how so many (presumably) feminist, cisgender women have no qualms whatsoever about throwing other (presumably) feminist, cisgender women under the team bus.
'Cisgender' is a bullshit word.
What is a cis gender?? How many genders has this society come up with now?? Lol the young people want to seem so enlightened but it is just deceived. None of these people would ever compete in any sport that co trains any endurance. Quit trying to appear more intelligent than you are and soo open minded.
@@Phisherman86 It certainly is envy and it goes beyond athleticism . It also includes their lack of a personality and the fact that they are in general, fugly as hell.
@ Cheryl Templin
I am using the regressive Left's terminology to make a point. This is no indication I agree with their suffocating and ludicrous ideology.
There's an old adage about making assumptions. Would you like a refresher course?
@@Phisherman86 like the two in red shirts.
If biological men can compete in women's sports, why have 'women's sports'. Just have sports.
Also interesting that the two people who think men should be allowed to compete, clearly have never played a sport in their life.
It's interesting how an entire movement that wants equality for men and women are advocating for an agenda that will ultimately ensure (if things continue the way they do) that men take over women's sports altogether.
The bracketing of people in sports based on skill + weight class would ALSO essentially eliminate women's sports at an elite level, since all the higher-based brackets would consist of men.
Exactly what I was thinking .
Then people will complain and ask why woman and trans people aren’t competing in the top levels and scream bigotry and misogyny.
Let's look at a sport where weight is used.
If someone is assigned female at birth but transitions to being male, should they wrestle males or females?
And what about people right at the line. You are either going to be last in one class or first in the other. The sandbagging to get in the lower class would be immense.
@@malirk Males. They want to be a man so...wrestle the men.
I'd pay good money to see this. We can pay-per-view that sh!t ! Femenists get free access.
@@malirk I don’t think a female would even need to transition. Let’s say there was a female wrestler who was so good that she can beat the top men in that weight class. Top men being the key words. Not beating the 500th ranked man from time to time. Then she should be allowed to compete against men. Same would apply to a woman who transitioned.
And somehow if that happens people wouldn’t have a problem with it.
It’s not the same thing as males transitioning to females. Males are born with physical advantages. Take a male and female at the same height, weight, physically fit, and both trained the same amount. The male will out perform in basically every category, so when a male transitions they will have certain unfair advantages.
Do I feel bad for the women who were born as biological men that they have very few places to compete in sports and that they feel bad. Yes. I do. I’m sure it’s a horrible feeling. However, I also feel bad for the women who feel like they are cheated, or will be cheated out of winning.
It’s a tough predicament and all this is so new to everyone. Maybe it’s time and will take time for everyone to get used to it. Or maybe it will be advances in science that allows biological males to be the same as biological females on a truly physical level, for lack of better words and understanding.
We will get there tho. People will grow to learn and understand and accept trans women competing in sports. Especially, with the advancement in hormone studies. And especially if the data and studies prove it.
Or the data in the future will prove that biological males without a doubt have certain biological advantages no matter what advancement in hormones. And will be dominant in physical activities over biological females. Then maybe everyone who supports trans woman competing in sports can accept that maybe just maybe that this is unfair to biological females.
My first thought upon seeing this woman: "finally, now here is someone who cares deeply about sport"
Sarcasm. I almost missed it. Thanks for the laugh.
😁
yes the sport of eating and dressing like a man...
is chasing a rolling donut a sport now? 😂
😂😂😂😂
I really do love the Socratic method. Peter obviously loves it too!
I think it’s hilarious how the current college aged student apparently thinks that because they’ve made it to college that they’ve been bequeathed with knowledge. As if, without doing any actual research on their own, they just assimilated information. As if making it into college means they now know this new information about complex ideas that they didn’t know before. Like wise by proxy. It’s unreal actually
It’s also just the general age of college students. At that age it seems most think they have life figured out. I know I did
@@alphafitter4699 actually that is not the phenomenon I’m pointing out. In the 50s or 60s, when they were teaching high school students how to think instead of what to think they arrived at college as if there was a whole lot to learn. Nowadays it’s “ummm…that’s settled science…” so there is no actual research necessary on their part. Yes I knew everything at that age but it was about living on my own not about something like the physical differences in people that call themselves trans that are biologically male and will always have inherent physiological advantages over a biological female when it comes to sports and strength in general. The empirical evidence on that matter has been available for quite some time yet college age kids currently just act like that information doesn’t even exist.
@Somewhatskeptical Theres enough evidence out there on this issue that the simple act of seeking it will reward anyone that finds it. On the Bible thing, you can no more prove the negative of what your evangelical friends believe than they can prove the positive of what they believe so that example doesn’t work at all in this instance.
@@caseybrown4360 Science knows that science is not settled. It is important for students to run the double slit experiment for them selves, collate, their findings and report.
Now days even if they do this work, they are told what to think in different areas. If they disagree they are ostracized and down graded. From when I went to college it seems the environment has changed. We were taught some things and the professors guided our discovery with most everything else.
@@bearlemley I don't think it is the environment. It is just that social science is not like the hard sciences. And while they try to use scientific methodologies, it still remains mostly philosophical given the subject matter, and is often based on subjectivity. It is why for example with the trans classifications, it is what "they self-identify as"...rather than any objective attempt at classification of sex and gender. So it isn't "they are told what to think", it just falls that way because any nutter can make a claim and it must be respected as "true". It isn't science.
In a nutshell, cheating in competitive sports is not ok.
If someone is assigned female at birth and transitions to male, should they wrestle men or women? Your thoughts?
@@malirk no one is 'assigned' a sex at birth. Human sex is observed and recorded at birth.
@@relaxingsounds1386 How do they observe and record it?
@@malirk female body
@@neuuser7071 So if someone has Swyer's syndrome they have a uterus and vagina but have XY chromosomes. They'll generally look like males unless they have hormone therapy.
Should someone with Swyer's syndrome wrestle men or women?
I'm so dissapointed whenever I see a woman saying that trans women should be able to compete in women's sports. All those years of fighting for women's rights and yet we're so quick to hand our spaces back to men. Disgusting.
Thank you for your on going project to try and bring civil discourse to universities. From outside of the university environment there has been far too little civil discourse for a long time. And a big thank you for your work with John and Helen for exposing the lack of integrity on the part of some "scholarly" publications. The Rape Culture at the Dog Park was classic.
Thanks for watching! -PB Team
@@drpeterboghossian These videos will have more of an impact on society than 100 years of in-person teaching at PSU. Please keep up the great work and keep growing those subs!!
+mpetersen6 So you're looking for civil discourse in support of grotesque fundie bigotry? Why? You are endorsing a disgusting, putrid, unethical, intellectual fraud.
It would be interesting if they asked this question to actual NCAA and professional athletes. Normal people have no skin in the game and they haven't worked their whole life to be stripped of their achievement.
It's amazing how the most unfit people seem to be an expert in sports
7:55 as an European growing up I played alot of football (soccer) and let me tell you there is a huge difference between male and female football. National women’s team are losing to u-14 (highlevel) boys’ teams. Men and women actually have very different hip structures which makes football a game more suited for men.
I've watched 3-4 of these by Peter (which are great). It's interesting to me how the question of fairness to the biological female athletes is never considered, or at most is hand-waved off as not a valid issue. If the top awards in a college sports nationally are mostly held by biologically born males, why would the biological females bother competing? If they can't win scholarships and Olympic metals, why have the female classification at all? Why are we ignoring the massive push from the 80s for women's sports in college? It seems to me that having male sports and then female + trans athletes sports starts to sort out as nothing more than male varsity and male junior varsity sports like in high school (United States).
+It's All Wonky What are you babbling about? That's exactly what transphobes pretend is their concern.
My favorite so far and keep in mind I'm new here, is the one where the social workers were screaming and flipping him off then refused to be part of the experiment only to be part of the experiment lol. Priceless.
The brilliant part of these exercises is that it’s not an ideological battle about the claim itself. It’s about unveiling the (often flawed) reasoning individuals have in forming their opinions and revealing why people cannot have productive discourse on these topics.
Exactly. Where many of these end up is the revelation that one, or sometimes both, sides are not interested in facts which do not support their feelings. He often asks something akin to “if I produced studies showing your belief is false, would you move one step the other way?” and the answer always ends up “no” from a certain crowd.
The inability to change one’s mind based on counter empirical evidence is a sign of ignorance and should exclude one from educational assistance from the government.
Nice to see that this discussion was devoid of any hyperbole about it being transphobic to even broach this topic, or that it might be "triggering" to certain people. Everyone was calm and civil and respectful. Well done by all participants.
Sure, but it was also devoid of pretty much anything, with no belief diversity. There were no arguments made really, just statements of belief. They actually all believed the same thing. The guy standing on disagreement was attempting some form of dialectic ie thesis antithesis synthesis, where the synthesis was just run in the mill social constuctionist view on these things. He seemed rather pleased with himself lol
I think the real issue isn't the content of the discussions, but rather the newfound necessity to have them. ZOIKES!
Triggering? What a weak and feeble species we are becoming. How about we start aiming to be our best, most robust selves instead of enabling weakness by coddling? The conversation was so calm and civil they failed to achieve anything. One must risk offending in order to critically think. I am sick of these labels, such as transphobic, which are designed to shut conversation and discussion down. I can strongly disagree without being phobic about any topic, but these folks were so careful with their words so as not to be labelled. That is not a healthy society.
@@kazzana9013 i believe this was a civil exercise and was THE best if not, one of the best way to rationalise ideas to the different parties. If we have enough people sharing this around, my guess we will get the best outcome for everyone.
Fighting fire with fire isnt always the best way. We are intellectual social creature.
Holy. Fucking. Shit.
Are they in college?
The lengths those two go to avoid the actual questions is amazing.
That guy in the plaid goes ten-miles around the question.
... like watching an intellectual car-accident.
"Well, my first argument is that transwomen are women". OK, so we know you have no critical faculties and just want to recite the liturgy, and/or be a "good" person by trading whatever critical faculties you might have for an overdose of empathy. For goodness sake, transwomen are transwomen. They are males who feel like females or are for whatever reason drawn to the idea of becoming females. But they aren't actually adult human females. Obviously. We should respect their feelings and what are natural inclinations to them up until respecting and accommodating their nature starts to infringe on other groups rights, such as the right of actual women to their own sex segregated spaces. I personally would have an anonymous referendum where only women get to vote and if the vast majority of them say transwomen are entitled to the same rights they have by birth, then fine. But I strongly suspect that if that ballot was held most women, unimpeded by the "progressive" dogma that looms over us all waiting to "shame" us into silence, would vote to preserve their rights to their own bathrooms, shelters and sporting divisions.
Very well put, the whole argument (terminology, balance between empathy and logic, etc.)...could'nt do better myself...
LGBTs need to acknowledge that the majority of ppl does not reject them or the "idea of the different"...they reject the super-woke and super-cringe positions and incredibly ABSURD concepts that only a small super-loud bunch of crazy activists are promoting.
(and so stop to call T-phobic everyone and everything 1 second after someone challenge them in a discussion)
The problem with the “there are variables among females argument” is that they are BOTH FEMALE. As a whole, Biological males hold advantages over females - ie bone density, reaction time, speed, strength, even hand eye coordination.. which is why Lia Thomas beat the girls by almost 40 seconds in a single event. And unnaturally taking hormones doesn’t change that and definitely doesn’t add credibility to the variables argument.
The real problem is that they don’t think scientifically. The testosterone levels of men and women do not overlap at the 3 sigma level.
I think another useful distinction for the argument is that, while it's true that there is variation within a group, the specific variation cannot be predicted ahead of time. However, the variables which are important for competitive advantage can be easily predicted in trans women (all the stuff you mentioned).
If someone is assigned female at birth and transitions to male, should they wrestle men or women? Your thoughts?
@@malirk if they can cut it wrestling biological males then yes. I wrestled females during my high school wrestling time. Mainly because there weren’t enough girls for a team but now that’s changed they have an option. Society “discriminates” all the time… there are different leagues, weight classes, age groups, etc. I am not saying I deny their ability to live or exist or be happy, however notice when Lia Thomas was interviewed she said I don’t care about how people feel “I’m happy now”. Which is at the crux of the problem, we’re putting the wants of a select few over 1/2 the worlds population. The reason there isnt just an open league for sports usually is because biological males hold a distinct advantage as a whole (yes of course there are outliers) but there are biological differences and it isn’t fair to have biological males that hold said advantages competing against females. Just like it wouldn’t be okay for me an almost 40 year old man to start dunking on a team of 12 year olds because “I identify as a 12 year old”.
So to your point, we know that testosterone is not the only factor in men's physical advantages over women, but, hypothetically speaking, let's pretend it is the only factor. The upper limit set for men [transwomen] in many of if these organizations is WAY higher than any woman can achieve naturally, even in those rare instances that a woman has a DSD that enables her body to produce her higher testosterone. So in order to make it equal we would either need to allow women to take exogenous testosterone, or the upper limit would need to be set comparable to what we see in women, which no man would ever be able to achieve regardless of how much he suppresses his testosterone. So it's INHERENTLY unfair to women to allow men to compete against them. The activists will say it doesn't matter if it's unfair because it would be transphobic to exclude men from women's sports, and that tells you all you need to know about this movement.
Would they be happy if we gave their slot in college to someone who doesn’t qualify for it?
So, if according to the woke, gender and sex are separate things, then we should just separate the sports by sex and not by gender. Simple solution. Additionally, every single participant who is in favor of biological males competing in woman's/females sports tends to exclusively think about that person's wants, needs, and desires, while completely ignoring the actual women that the trans person would be competing with. My personal criteria is this - anyone can be and appear whatever they want as long as it doesn't interfere with lives of other people and the society in whole. When your ideology, gender identity, sexual preference, etc. beings to negatively affect other people - that's where the line needs to be drawn. Cool, you can claim to be woman if you were born a man and appear feminine and all that, but if you now want to change in actual women's locker room - that now negatively affects other people.
excellent commentary 4SeasonPro
Agreed
Bingo. I would just point out that it is not merely a question of woman's sports but of all women's spaces. The worst ones being access to women's shelters and women's prisons.
Yep. This really mages no sense.
“He thinks he’s a woman”
“But he has a man’s body “
“How do you know”
“…”
well said!
It's always the LEAST athletic people with the LEAST real world experience in sports fighting for this. It's purely ideological ignorance of reality. In BJJ for example, the men would beat the women probably 99% of the time in the same belt and weight class. I would really like to see the people fighting for this demonstrate their opinion, go do a sport you can all do, have the girls against the girls and the guys against the guys, then swap and see what happens. If you still think the same thing after then fine. But MOST of them would hopefully find it very dificult to continue to fight for this afterwards.
I'd like to see three athletes debate this. The basketball example was a case in point - the fact that she thinks height differences between men and women are comparable to height differences among men... it's just ignorance. Of biology and of basketball.
It's gross how quick these people are to give something away that other people worked hard for. Something that may mean nothing to them but means so much to others (female athletes).
@@JS-tv8sf that's the whole issue. At what point do we violate someone else's feelings or rights in the name of fighting for someone else's? "We don't care about your rights" is all I am hearing. So why should I care for yours and vice versa. Yawn
Exactly, and I hate it when they sports shouldn't be about winning. They can't even understand that for professional athletes, sport is a job, not hobby.
It doesn't affect them so off course
I love this format where you as the moderator don’t actively push your own agenda, letting the participants speak for themselves. Well done!
Yeah, the luddites bury themselves in vapid, fact-free, scientfically unsupported, sheeple rhetoric, just following along until they fall off the cliff of intellectual lunacy.
What agenda does he have to push? This is literally a question about basic biology, and the 2 individuals on the left clearly showing that have absolutely no clue about biology. There is scientific, even biblical information further stating the physical differences between men and women
I am so depressed by the invincible ignorance of these 'students' - how can they have gained admission to college? They appear to know no facts, and are comfortable with accepting unquestioningly a decree from 'an authority'. It is terrible.
Most college kids have a school level of 5th grade. 99.99% of people on this planet would die if put out into the woods and left to survive on their own.
Admission into many colleges is contingent on towing the line. This stuff has come from colleges, from Foucault, Butler etc.
100% agree
@@cmmndrblu I agree. But Foucault would actually be rolling in his grave at this transgenderism BS. He believed that identity is socially constructed, which is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what the modern wokies say. Wokies say gender identity is 'my truth' and that only I know who my true inner self is, not outside forces like social gender norms. This is a direct contradiction of Foucault. These modern wokies can't even get social construction theory correct!🤣🤦♂️
Children need to be taught HOW to think, not WHAT to think. Modern schools teach CONFORMITY.
Not a single person wanted to give their opinion. "Don't hate me, I want the organization to decide for me!"
Are they really all saying a 5’10 70kg female is the equal to a 5’10 70kg male!?
Yes, yes they are. That silly blond person thinks a 130lb woman would not get murdered by a 130lb man in a fight
6:10 The only advantage men get when they join women's sports is they win every time. Just a minor detail.
The obvious solution for this whole dillema is to have male (not men) sports and female (not women) sports and Open sports ,(all sexes) . It's always said that sex is biological and gender is a construct so make the sports sex based not gender based . The distinction in the divisions in sports was never about how one feels or identifies. It was rooted in the differences in biology so the organizations just have to make sex based. This way there wouldn't be a social issue about it at because in the words of non-binary and transgender activities "sex is not gender" and what they have is a gender identity not a sex identity.
I would love to see a similar video asking people the question about divisiona becoming sex based and not gender based. It literally bypasses the whole gender identity issue in sports . AND same thing with bathrooms . Make them sex based not gender based.
Well said I agree
Let me say that absolutely LOVE the way you have this set up. No debate. No screaming. No yelling. Every point is heard and no disrespect is given on either side of the aisle on whatever subject matter you're talking about. Awesome job.
Yh but.... I think all mentally sound individuals were shocked that people STRONGLY believe men should be able to participate in female sports. What has this world come to
It doesn't always goes as respectful as that especially with that subject.
But there should be a conclusion at the end I guess otherwise those who on one side gonna be remained delusional
Some of them they do start screaming specially when you start questioning the ideology.
To the red flannel chick, a U15 boys team beat our womens national soccer team.
Sorry Logan, If a 8th grade boys soccer team beat the national womans team, this red flannel chick still wouldn't get it. The only solution is for a mass number of men in all sports claim to be a woman and replace all biological women in all sports...only then would there even be a chance that mentally ill people like this get it.
Same happens in basketball. Our local club U14 boys team beat our professional state women’s team that had an ex Olympian and 2 other national players.
@@tonyclif1 Exactly!. Hundreds of examples just like yours.
The best female sprinters in the world couldn't beat the best Texas high school boys
I love how Peter just lets people articulate ones position on topics. This is what school and learning used to be.
Personally they should just merge all athletics into categories of type of event. Not gender. As after the trans debate someone will identify as g or h and win the new category of competition. Causing never ending changing of rules and category. Just let the best athlete's win not based on gender identity.
Or we can flush the woke crowd back to where they belong and work on the inflation and economic depression they created, the 99 want option 2, it's just a matter of making them break the law once... I've learned this from climate narcissist's.
You would find that they would naturally segregate themselves into gender because gender differences in sport are huge. Any sport that requires upper body strength men would wipe the floor with women
Metric of classes? Easy: XX-chromosome vs. XX-chromosome; XY-chromosome vs. XY-chromosome; and a third mixed-chromosome class. One can identify as any gender one likes, but one must compete in one's appropriate biological category.
Exactly. :)
Expecting any common sense on what is basically a left wing ideological philosophical viewpoint is comparable to waiting for Gadot to appear on stage.
I just have to point out, while I agree in the vast majority of cases this would be adequate, the best definition of sex is the organisation of reproductive tissues towards the production of gametes. Usually the SRY gene is on the Y chromosome and triggers masculinisatiom in utero. Androgen Insensitive chromosomal XY individuals with AIS would appear phenotypically female and not experience male puberty. It would make more sense to include these individuals as female since testosterone would have failed to masculine them.
@@cmmndrblu We have the special Olympics for a reason.. I'm sure they will come after that next.
@@cmmndrblu I think taking these things into account and attempting to qualify or disqualify a participants eligibility for competition based on them would give the sport more of a science experiment feel and less of a contest feel. Kinda ruins the enjoyment of it for the participants and onlookers as well.
These people clearly don't have any idea of how sports work. I have been practicing Kick Boxing, Savate and K1 for about 10 years and I have sparred with girls that were more skilled, more experienced, more technical than me. They were faster and had more stamina but I still had to exercise extreme restraint not to knock them down or hurt them quite badly. I have 100% respect for those girls as fighters and athletes, and its precisely because of that that I would never compete with them in a ring.
I'm a woman on acne medicine to block male hormone ALDOSTERONE.. Women have male hormones. And, Men are always going to be physically superior medicated or not.
Forget Lung capacity, red blood cell oxygen count, muscle mass, bone density, and lazy women. That's all transphobic.
10:25 the thing is, my dude, that you're clearly not an athlete. We are talking about people actually undergoing rigorous competitive training and enjoying the benefits of years of male biology. The swimmer dude/dudette was doing average before changing teams and now he's wrecking it.... It's pretty clear as the water he swims in
He WAS wrecking it...he wont wreck anything else for the forseeable future due to FINA new rules...
I can't wait to see how people answer after the swimming trans rule changes.
Isn't it transphobic to exclude trans women who have not undergone hormone treatment?
Doesn't excluding trans athletes who have not undergone hormone treatment show that sports are seperated on a basis of biology and physiology instead of gender identity?
Well ones grounded in biology the other in feelings.
I am elated! Finally, some semblance of sanity is returning! Next: Get men out of women's prisons and shelters!
@@terfalicious It is all in the phrasing with some of these people. A better way to put it and still push for this would be to say:
We need to get males out of female prisons.
@@terfalicious notice we don't get much news about transmales entering male spaces like prisons?
A trans-woman is a man that identifies as a woman. The fact that sports governing bodies allow men who have had surgeries and/or take hormones to participate in womens sports is absurd. A very small minority of trans-athletes need not negatively impact competitive womens sports. Allow them to identify as women, but mandate that they compete against men. Spectators may identify these people as they wish: some may identify them as women, while others may recognize them as men. Outside of the sports arena no legislation should compel anyone to enable a delusional/ill individual.
Nobody seems to realize the basic reason why we have categories in the first place.
We have categories, at the most basic level, because some people are so genetically diverse that they cannot compete with each other, because one group would have 99,99% win rate against the other. And that's the point, there is no "competition" if the outcome is crystal clear from the start.
So in order for sports to be both interesting and fair, athletes must be put in the position in which they can express their skill and the outcome is driven as much as possible by their skill and not by factors they cannot control or compete against.
So that's the logic behind categories, some sports are divided by age, by weight, by gender, some by skill. That's because those are the main factors that define the result of a competition.
We can't make a category for virtually everything like height or muscle mass because we would end up with categories so slim it would be impractical to even find athletes in some of them. So as a compromise we base our categories on the most influential factors, so there is still some biological advantage between the athletes of the same category.
And to come back to the main topic, we are currently trying to understand how many criteria for the categories are being ignored when we let men compete with women and how much effect that has.
The fact that you're not allowed to investigate the problem in order to figure it out and are instantly labeled as "transphobic" is dishonest in the worst way possible.
Jeez this is frustrating. Just ask if Mike Tyson was to identify as a women in his prime, would they be ok with him fighting biological women? Even after Him doing some hormone therapy?
"Perhaps the most dangerous by-product of the Age of Intellect is the unconscious growth of the idea that the human brain can solve the problems of the world. Even on the low level of practical affairs this is patently untrue. " ~The Cycle of Collapse: Fate Of Empires by Sir John Glubb
This needs to be said. The pro-trans woman in this video has normal vocal tonality (no uptalk), minimal defensiveness (her arms were crossed at the start but it could have just been nervousness), a pleasant personality, and appeared to engage in good faith. This is extremely rare. I don't agree with her views but she feels like someone you could talk to and make progress (on both sides) with.
You think you can make progress with that? 😂. There’s almost no chance when he have views that flawed and out of reality. Useless debating these kinds of people. You’ll lose every single time
Woman who has never done a pushup tells you how sports should be.
I find these conversations frustrating because it seems like people aren't grasping or really engaging with the the situation honestly. To make the case for trans women in women's sports, you have to do two things simultaneously:
1. Explain why trans women should be included
2. Explain why cis men should be excluded
I keep seeing arguments about why trans women should be included that could equally well be applied to why cis men should be included. The argument for trans people in sports isn't an argument against gender discrimination, it's an argument for a very specific amount of gender discrimination, and it really requires that you justify it from both directions.
They know what's real, as do you and I. These people are just adhering to "religious" principles.
What is the heck is cis?
The think they can argue around this by saying transwomen are women.
Without explaining what definition of women they are operating under.
The logical incoherence of these arguments is bewildering.
Peter only wants to challenge each individual to see if where they stand on the grid is in-line with their thoughts and why they are so confident in their stance.
He demonstrates that probably, all 3 of them shouldn't be so confident in the stances they took based on the knowledge that they hold.
Usually I see him probe more but the people here were being disingenuous and I think he realised that he wasn't getting anywhere productive.
That's what I take from this.
There are only 2 genders. So, of Trans peeps want to compete, then let them have their own category
The world needs more conversation/debate and you are bringing it, thank you.
+JA S The world needs fewer heinous, bigoted, repulsive ideologues, which means this atrocity needs to retire.
I just realized that having people speak about sports that look like they have never played a competitive sport in their lives may not be a good idea. THEY CANNOT RELATE. It's like asking someone about getting robbed who's never had a penny taken away from them. Those 2 people are basically saying" WHY WOULD I CARE?" Lia Thomas is getting away with theft. They are displaying disingenuous empathy. They have ZERO EMPATHY for the REAL WOMAN losing to a MAN (Lia Thomas) and I am not sure why. Maybe because they have felt rejected their entire lives, just as the trans people have, and they find a home in the Misfit arena, which causes them to throw away rationality or logic. You can identify as a bird, a plane, or a tree, but why does one NEED to compete in sports as a female?????? Play as the gender you are born in for one hour and identify as whatever you'd like for the rest of your life. And the argument, "MOST PEOPLE WON'T DO THAT JUST FOR AN ADVANTAGE." Bro, most people won't commit fraud but IT STILL HAPPENS/ should we just allow the ones who do it to continue to? that is the dumbest argument I've ever heard.
The blonde girl has no empathy cause she is simply spitting out words implanted in her brain by the woke brainwashing process...these ppl are just "talking robots"...it's impossible to have a logical converstation with them.
Yeah, but honestly that's true for most topics. Ultimately I agree with the two "males", the sport organizations should live and die by their set of rules. Which means that some sports would not be viable depending on the rules they apply.
you realize that looks are deceiving (Maradonna never looked like a star athlete either once he took on the trainer position) and also that the legislators who eventually push such decisions through also never have participated in such activities before. So allowing non-qualified people to speak and air their concerns and views is not only necessary but required in order to educate them or change their minds.
You thought they liked u because u are a woman? This is why u deserve it and men will not be doing anything, let the man games begin.
Just so you know, they didn't like u the whole time and used u like a glue stick, and u deserve it.
There was no way I would have ever expected Ms. Milly Tant to choose "fk you!", I'm amazed that someone who has never played sports wants to eliminate gender based competition. It wants to make sports comps species based. Next problem, greyhound owner that is convinced it thinks it's a person, 400m world record 25.3 seconds a year later. Flipper destroys Phelps after clicking "I'm a man".
Great idea separate athletes by their top times..
Well, when Im qualifing ill underperform just by 2 seconds so when i compete ill push and get my medal. Genious idea there..
There was a guy at work who was thinner than me, smaller than me. He played games at home all day on his computer but he was much, much stronger than me, a woman. He could lift things I couldn't, and after that experience I have to say that men are just built differently. There definitely is an advantage.
That is just a fact of life...the problem is not to see it because you are litterally "indoctrinated" into a fantasy world of your own...
(like these "students" are...I am using the " " cause you cant call yourself a true student if you dont have logic and critical thinking, but just listen and regurgitate acritically things that someone sais to you)
It's sad to see how confused they are.
"I want the best to compete together regardless of gender" Juliana Pena, the current UFC women champ said she wants no part in fighting men after fighting a random guy and getting seriously hurt. Serena Williams said she still stick with women tennis citing a huge difference in power, timing and endurance. These college students who make this claims have never participated in competitive sports at a high level.
The skill-level argument is hilarious. Track and Field without sex classification would be crazy, the best times will all be men and trans women. How many categories would need to be created to be inclusive of biological women? Allyson Felix, the world's most decorated female runner wouldn't rank in the top 1000 if you eliminated sex.
I totally disagree with you. Felix would rank maybe 100000 maybe even more 00000
In track and field an elite woman times are equivalent to a freshman high school male.
The woke activists have not done 1 hour of sports ever in their life...dont even watch it...they know nothing of the argument, they just talk in "abstract" according to their "principles" (T-women are women, period, no buts or ifs)
Love your work Peter, hope you are working on a new book atm.
What is often discarded in this conversation: Participating in a sport is not the same as competing in a competetiv event.
You can participate in the training, you might join the team of your "new gender", but that is a totaly different thing than dominating biological females as a man, in an event that has maybe schoolarships attached to it or other benefits that you want to compete over.
In addition, tho I´m not a medical doctor or a biologist, but my understanding of the differences in physique between males and femals, is that even if we group by mass, that is males and females, you would still end up with males being statisticly stronger due to the muscle mass in males in dencer than in females. So pound for pound, males are stronger.
Thanks for watching! -PB Team
I may be judging but all three look like they never played a sport in their life. The greatest female tennis player of all time Serena Williams lost to a 200 ranked men’s tennis player and has stated she would not want to play men’s tennis. High school soccer players have beaten top ranked women’s soccer teams. Men in mma would absolutely demolish a woman I. Mma to the point of murder. No woman would make a major baseball team. Swimming records by men far out rank women’s records. High school boys beat Olympic women records every year. Yet women could beat men In sports. Title IX means nothing if women and men sports were eliminated because it would be just men’s sports.
My freshman year of high school, they merged the P.E. classes into one coed class. This lasted less than one month, as one girl had her arm broken and another had two teeth knocked out and a broken nose.
What were you guy doing in P.E. that allowed for that?
They should have kept the feminists in with the boys.
@@robinthrush9672 the women probably tripped or bumped into the guys. Women get hurt by the slightest things.
@@robinthrush9672 Ultimate Frisbee (girl was bumped fell and broke her arm). Second one, field hockey ball to the face. Now could these injuries happen to males? Of course, just way more likely when girls try to compete physically against males.
I would add that my gym classes were not separated until 7th grade. Gee, wonder why?
The people debating had very faulty arguments on both sides and could not follow Peter's questions very well. However, it is incredible that these types of discussions are being held in universities. Having conversations with an open mind is so important for our society's health.
Please continue doing this amazing work.
I agree with you comments. I would love to see more people start in the middle and then move based on the conversation. But...almost all of these students in Peter's exercises do not want to commit to any possibility of changing their minds.
it terrifies me that these people are in college
@@bradspringer2372 Why on earth would any decently educated mentally sound person, agree that BIOLOGICAL MEN should be able to play in women sports. This should even be debated it is literally basic fuckimg biology. I have question for you. What would happen to a female that has the exact same weight, height, and skill level as Mike Tyson? Let me just answer it for you, there would be a 98% chance that the women is killed. I trust you understand why
I don't understand why trans individuals don't want to be pioneers and record-makers in their OWN leagues - just like women have had to be in the past. It's upsetting to see biological women with higher levels of testosterone used as an example to justify biological males (with modifications) competing against females, instead of those same individuals championing for ALL biological women to have the right to compete first.
There is a reason why biological women and men have separate divisions within sports. Participation varies because of popularity and interest - there is a reason we see advertisements for the NFL in grocery stores during Superbowl season but nothing for a women's NFL. Being born a girl and growing into a woman is a different experience than being born a boy and growing into a man. Modifying your body to conform to a hormonal and SOCIETAL depiction of what they feel a woman is, does not change the lived experience. I have no problem with someone wanting to transition as an adult and I'll happily defend you if others feel the need to harass and disrespect your choice as you live your life in whatever fashion makes you feel best, but there needs to be an acknowledgment of the main differences when it comes to sex. I don't think anyone would happily call a mature child with adult experiences an actual adult and let them participate in adult activities with other adults, this is a similar distinction.
Lia Thomas still has meat and two veg! Saying that he's a woman is beyond oblivious!
Yep, the lady at 5:46 who says "Because trans women are women" is wrong.
From what I've seen they never show Mr Thomas in a full frontal view. If Mr Thomas chooses to identify as a woman that's his business. He can undergo hormone treatments. He can undergo re-assignment surgery. But he will never be a woman. All he will be is an imitation woman.
@@TheHopetown
Who was the last never mind the first trans woman to become pregnant and give birth.
@@mpetersen6 I don't answer questions. But I can guess, was it your Dad?
@@TheHopetown
So you have trouble recognizing sarcasm. The point is no trans woman has given birth. That does not mean that there will not be somebody in the future given possible* medical "advances"
*In the theoretical meaning. Although there are activist surgeons talking about possible uterus transplants. I can imagine just what the side effects of the anti rejection drugs would be on the fetus. Self Abortion? And just where do they propose to obtain the transplant materials?
One problem in this discussion seems to be that none of these people seems to have experience in sports, or are interested in it..
there is so much evidence on that women can’t compete with men in sports, that’s a no brainer for every person who is interested in sports.. Serena Williams said it once „men play a different game“
you're telling me the woman on the left doesn't play sports?!?!?!
The woke activists have not done 1 hour of sports ever in their life...dont even watch it...they know nothing of the argument, they just talk in "abstract" according to their "principles" (T-women are women, period, no buts or ifs)
@@takkatfleece ROFL
@@takkatfleece She's a pro silverwear lifter.
15:47 so if Lea Thomas swims faster than females, why she doesn't compete within her skill level? I can give you answer: because in his skill category he was 400th
The fact that we have to even have this conversation reveals the problem with our school system.
A school should run an all Male Woman's Team. That would shut up these folks.
edit - Sex is Biological, Gender is Social. The reason Men's and Women's sport is separated is due to Sexual Dimorphism, a Biological fact. Thus the Sex should be the determining factor.
The problem is the words "Man" and "Woman" are used to describe both definitions. This leads to much conflation. It is unreasonable for the vast majority to have to change their vocabulary for the benefit of a few people they don't even know. They are too busy just getting by.
Gender is social? Really? Provide scientific proof.
@@relaxingsounds1386 I should have prefaced that statement with "According to Gender Studies,".
My bad. I'm using their arguments and definitions against them.
I agree with this. Sports have always been divided along biological lines, whether it be sex, weight classes, or in cases like the paralympics, differing levels of ability. Many of the activists who are advocating for trans women to compete in womens sports are arguing so along societal or identitarian lines, but a heavyweight cant just identify as a featherweight, nor can an able bodied person identify as a paraplegic. Just because trans individuals choose to socially identify as a gender different to their biological sex, doesnt change the underlying biological fact.
The best suggestion I have heard so far, is to leave womens sports to biological women, but run an open category along side it, presumably with some degree of regulation over testosterone levels and such, you could even have both categories run in the same event, similar to how different classes of cars run in the Le Mans race together, they share the same track but are only competing against others in their class. Imagine for example a swimming event with 8 competitors, one of which is a trans women and the rest biological women, they compete and at the end there would be awards given for the biological womens category, where 7 of the 8 competitors qualify, and then awards given for the open category, where all 8 (presumably) qualify. this way you have the best of both worlds, the trans athletes are able to compete and the womens category is still protected
Why handicap humans sports exist separatly?
Why all humanbeings "normal" and handicaped, womans and mans and transformators etc dont rival in one events?
If we categorized by skill level as the two disagrees felt so good about, Lia Thomas wouldn’t be swimming against women. Lia would be swimming against mediocre college male swimmers and be ranked 400-500 just like when Lia competed as a man in college, though probably a little lower due to transitioning treatments.
Also, the honest way to thought-experiment this would be to imagine that trans-women made up say 20 percent of a sport’s population. If they competed against solely cis-women, they would virtually eliminate cis-women from any meaningful level of competition. These arguments would be rendered moot and cis-female divisions would organically arise so cis-female athletes would have a platform to compete. We would then have a male division which would be virtually 100% cis-men, a trans division which would be 99% trans-women, then a cis-women’s division. Many of the commenters are correct, so many people involved in these discussions have no idea what it’s like to compete in sports. It doesn’t make their opinions poor by default but their arguments are definitely ideological and tend to be a bit clueless regarding how competition plays out in real life.
Excellent comment, Doug!
Loved hearing such a highly athletic feminist give her well versed opinion on advantages in sports. Bravo.
What does attacking the speaker's physical fitness/ad hominem attack add to the conversation?
Does attacking someone personally versus attacking their position really encourage discussion? Or are you trying to shut them up as much as "woke" people try to stifle others?
@@Briaaanz I'm just commenting. Stay mad bro 😂
@@Briaaanz You seem to have my watching a youtube viddy comfused with my actual participation in a debate. Shit happens, we all make mistakes ✌️
@@Briaaanz I think he’s trying to say that people who’ve never participated in sports probably are not well informed enough to have such strong opinions about the issue.
The guy saying that there are some women that could beat him at a sport doesn't prove anything. Maybe he's a lousy athlete. Maybe if he and a woman were trained at the same level he would change his mind. These people cherry pick a woman beating a man here and there. Show me one women who trasitioned to be a man and is competitive in mens sports. There are none. Weight lifting, boxing, jiu jitsu, tenis, etc. not even close. Have an open for anyone and maybe another trans sports league. That would be fair.
these Q&A's need be longer
"Then the empire so affected by moral decline grows weaker and more vulnerable to destruction by forces arising inside or outside of it." ~The Life Cycles of Empires
How many women compete in male sports?? There's a reason! It would be a waste of their time. That's like a male in a handicap sport! 😂 Exactly my point!
Husky folks and a smart nerd - probably not the best cross-section of sporting activities. However, as we all know (including Peter), they are what social media is comprised of - they are the tail wagging the dog. Well done Peter!!
I would like to see a similar debate, but before inviting people to join the debate ask them if they can define the statistical terms: mean, standard deviation and long-tail. I suspect that the conversation would go much differently if you only selected participants who understood what these terms mean and how they apply to men and women
This is a good example of why the simplest solution is usually the best one. The more complicated this stuff gets, the more it devolves into nonsense.
Dividing sports into results-based categories would be a disaster for women. For women would never reach the top of the sport. They would be restricted to competing with men new to the sport.
They wouldn’t be in sports at all. Only so many spots on a team, they’d all be filled by men
And contact sports in general would be too dangerous for them to do...
I spoke to one of them who proudly said Peter Singer states steroids are the way to go to even out any advantage or disadvantage, his claim is Africans are winning too many running races, the irony of it all.
@@jayz8839 what a fucking dummy. Steroids don’t make people grow taller 🤣
oh my gosh!! as an individual from a third-world country, these videos make me sad that postmodernism makes erstwhile intelligent young people appear and sound very stupid. I believe that rudimentary arguments like these are only revisited in recent times due to a lack of significant troubles in the west and other developed countries. Y'all are just too comfortable that these trivial and century-long settled issues are being revisited. this is just sad!!
PB's approach has significant Socratic aspects. By offering this opportunity to students, he is doing what ideally should be done by all high schools and universities. This demonstrates what effective dialog can achieve. Each participant can learn from another; but most importantly, as one assesses information and formulates new thoughts, they educate themselves. "Some people learn by listening--some learn by talking."
I like watching these Q&A seminar's. It would be great if the Uni's in Australia conducted them every now and again. As a student I feel a lack of intellectual stimulation during lecture's, which is worrisome for several reasons.
Keep up the great work Peter!
It's funny that the discussions are NEVER about women trying to compete in men's sports...