Revisiting The FAILURE of Game of Thrones | Video Essay
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- Опубликовано: 19 май 2024
- In this video we revisit Game of Thrones in a deep dive Video Essay and discuss the downfall of one of the greatest TV Shows in history. From the masterful early seasons to the disaster of Season 8 we cover it all! House of the Dragon is now here, can it overcome the bad taste Game of Thrones Season 8 left in the mouths of GOT fans?
/ movie_overload
Star Wars Channel - / theozzyjedi
Game of Thrones - (2011)
House of The Dragon - (2022)
Music
- • Game Of Thrones Openin...
- • DRAMATIC CINEMATIC Bac...
- • Game Of Thrones Music ...
0:00 - Intro
2:06 - Seasons 1-4
8:51 - Seasons 5-6
16:19 - Seasons 7-8 
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What's hilarious is that D&D rushed Game Of Thrones in order to get started on Starwars, only for them to lose the Starwars deal because they rushed GOT and the reaction was so bad.
So dumb that they thought they were invincible. Part of me hopes they never work again, but I would accept a public apology for ruining one of the best shows on television.
@@MoThanLessThan3 fuck em I hope they go broke and homeless
@@MoThanLessThan3 i wont accept that, i hope they never see work. I can't watch that last season till today
@@toduno927 yeah I won't accept that either. They intentionally fucked up what could've been one of (if not *the* ) greatest shows ever
I just rewatched it for the first time and it's even worse lol. Knowing how good it was at the beginning and how it's going somewhere so awful made it so bad.
To be fair i think both GRRM and HBO were perfectly fine with more seasons, but D&D were getting tired and wanted to wrap up the show in order to move on to other projects (something star wars related i believe). Which is ironic since they haven't done anything noteworthy since GoT.
I just saw the headline where George reiterates how much he and HBO pushed for further seasons, but D&D just refused. So frustrating man.
How did they let 2 men destroy a multiple million-dollar show? They could've used backup directors and producers who would kill for a project like GOT to replace dumb and dumber.
Its not so simple. The show really started to be shit the momebt they runed out from the source material. They were not talented to write those characters and martin was lazzy enough to let his show die
I am surprised hbo didn’t just replace dd and continue on.
@@bomnitoperro9422 That is just NOT TRUE!!!! They hadn't run out of material after season 5. Books 4 & 5, which run concurrently, offered enough material for at least 3 season(!!!), but they decided to chuck out two about 70% of it, change half of what remained beyond recognition (see Dorne...) leaving only a small sliver of what George had written. And they stampeded their way through it in just one season, season 5. If they had done the adaptation properly - like they did books 1-3, there would have been ample time for Martin to either finish book 6 or, at least, have enough of it written for a further season. Book 6 is by all accounts going to be even more massive than 3 & 5. When they decided to butcher his existing matrerial after season 4, it obviously took all the wind out of George's sails and it wasn't until fairly recently that he has regained his momentum (just watch his appearance at Comic Con after season 4. He looked and acted like someone who didn't want to be there; by that time he already knew what was happening as preproduction & scripts for season 5 were well under way). Both he and HBO pleaded with D&D to have more seasons, or, if they didn't want to, to hand the reins over to new showrunners. But they refused all these options! So they are fully to blame for the debacle that started with season 5 and became progressively worse until it all crashed in season 8.
The fight against the Night King should've lasted a SEASON. And then another season for Dany conquering King's Landing and slowing descending into madness. We needed that
I don’t think that dany should have descended into madness. One of the themes of the books were that your birth does not have to define you. What should have happened was dany setting up a constitutional monarchy that gave more rights to peasants. That would have done a better job of “breaking the wheel” than the bullshit failure of a state set up at the end.
Yes, but No....the night king stuff should have been the FINAL part of the show. It started with white walkers...END it with the whitewalkers.....the entire subtle plot of the show was never about politics or the throne, it was always the white walker threat.
Completely agree. I thought Dany might go mad because of the books and hints I saw there. I don't think the show did enough to foreshadow this. If they wanted to go that route, they needed a lot more time. They could weave her descent into the Night King for both seasons. Night King should have been the ultimate bad guy and hopefully a way to bring the peoples together.
Yes!! The long night, according to legend lasted a generation. I expected the battle with the nightking to be a bit like ww2 or zomby apocalypse. Just years of batlle. Slowely makkng its way south. So at least a season! The long night was jist such a dissapointment..
@@tenkenroo Dany didn't descend into madness. She was coherent, and chose to be ruthless like she has shown since season 1. The only reason why she held her wrath back is because of her advisors. Secondly, she didn't want to take Essos so she was easier on them. As soon as she made it to Westeros, her ego blew up and she was warned by Barristan and Jorah that anytime a city is sacked, innocents are slaughtered. She chose to act naive and said only her enemies would suffer. Thing is that the citizens of KL stayed with Cersei, thus she viewed them as enemies. Her arc was the only thing they did right in s8.
The fact that D&D were so focused on wrapping up GoT to go work on other projects, only for the final seasons of GoT to be so poorly received that they were subsequently dropped from said projects, is hilariously ironic. I only wish HBO had the foresight for that and just up and replaced them rather than stick it through to the end.
"You are my queen, I don't know what else to say." Is still one of the most unintentionally funny lines of the series. That and "I know a killer when I see one"
3 of the cast members must have given the showrunners mad head cus only they along side Bron and Bran got "good" endings. Everyone else got fucked. Who knows maybe the showrunners were giving Bron and Bran mad head 🤭
yep
So would you say she's a....
*puts on sunglasses*
....Killer Queen?
YEEAAAAHHHH!!!
That second one really pissed me off. Like yeah it would make sense in season 7, but in the season finale it was like looking at Hitler and saying “I know a killer when I see one.”
And this is after she baked a Frey cake, had Walder eat it before slitting his throat and poison his entire house. But its okay when she does evil shit right.
and what about the Dothraki? They’re entire purpose in life was to put Dany on the Iron Throne, and once they get there, Dany is betrayed and killed and they just do nothing and walk around kings landing casually like tourists.
They died in the long night episode, remember? (Lol)
@@gus9663 The show didn't remember that, apparently xD
Dave and Dan forgot that they died in the Long night!
I guess Dany was better at raising the dead than the Night King!!
Not just them, the Unsullied too. They actually loved her, not just followed her cause she was the toughest like the Dothraki do. The fact Grey Worm just let it go was one of the worst character assassinations I'd have ever seen.
@@gus9663 Yeah I remember. I also remember they were last seen boarding a ship for Essos in the last episode.
The wardrobe in the last two season took a steep downturn as well imo. They put literally everyone in structured black clothing and called it a day. Danny’s wardrobe in the first half of the show was excellent, they took her soft features into consideration and gave her clothing that complimented it and in turn made her look more powerful. The boxy monochromatic stuff they put her in in the last two seasons made her look small and awkward, like a little kid.
I know, right? Game of Thrones just to have such great fashion; especially Margaery, Sansa and Daenerys had such great wardrobes. They also should have kept Sansa in light clothing.
I liked her winter outfits. She was no longer in the south so she had to wear bigger clothes.
It all has to do with their character’s developing into something more sinister and not so much innocent anymore. Like their innocence has been taken away so they reflect how they feel by how they dress. Makes perfect sense. It’s not a fashion show
yeah I get that they were going for Daenerys wearing darker clothes & something more militaristic to reflect her arc, but it still looked pretty weird
Yes exactly
a big thing that was kind of glossed over at the time was actors talking in interviews about how the writers were dismissive of criticism they had about the way their characters started to be written. They would tell them that things didnt make sense or that something was completely against their character and they were basically told to shut up and read the lines. I think it was clear to everyone that the writers sucked without the books to follow and had no actual writing talent. Can you imagine playing Tyrion as a witty genius for 4 seasons and then being relegated to making dick jokes about Varys from then on. It was pathetic and every actor knew it.
@@thatoneannoyingtornadosire8755 D&D are not involved with HoTD
@@thatoneannoyingtornadosire8755 God, I hope you start watching HOTD! They don't have _anything_ to do with it, but George does! And Ryan Condel is doing a fantastic job and you can feel his passion for the story. From a full-on ASOIAF fan, you're missing out bud!
@@thatoneannoyingtornadosire8755 house of the dragon is really good though. And this comes from someone who was set on not watching it on principle, because of how GOT ended. I was basically forced by friends. It’s really good
Funny though because Peter Dinklage himself has recently gone on to say that S8 was perfect and the writers did a great job and this is just fans being unhappy.
I really hope that Peter was just being sarcastic.
@@aroidpapa are you talking about the clip thst looks like he's being held hostage and forced to read from a script?
“Winter is coming” And it lasted for like a day. I didn’t expect the Long Night to literally be 1 long night. -_-
& I remember people expecting so many to die during the Long Night episode. All those scenes where they shouldn’t have survived and the Dothraki looked like they got wiped out. And then it was just mainly Jorah who didn’t make it. Sigh
I was at the very least expecting everyone to flee winterfell and the conclusion somewhere near kings landing I couldn't believe what I was witnessing still cant rewatch season 8
long night= 1 unpleasant evening
@@avarma6313 wasnt even that unpleasant. arya even did some sick parkour
No but for real, my sister and I had made a list of every possible character who could die (mostly everyone except Jon, Tyrion, Dany and Arya, with Jaime, Sansa and Gendry being on extremely thin ice) and we took an entire week making our peace with who we thought were more likely to die while also leaving room for everyone else.
And then lo and behold the only people we lost were Beric, Edd, Theon and Jorah, which... ok but the way they shot it no one should have lived. Coming off of the episode you're so mentally charged and only later do you realize what a colossal clusterfuck it really was
I was expecting it to last half a season at least. With handfuls of characters (actually named characters) dying.
I'm a complete 🤡 for getting on the House of the dragon train so easily, but I so missed the feeling. Man, I invested 10 years in this show, read the books, theories, watched countless videos ugh. I will never forgive them, I'll be on my dead bed and still complaining about the last seasons. Jon was the prince that was promised - what did it all mean???? Dany turning mad in 1 episode, so lazy. BUT ruining Jaime's character's development is the thing it gets me going the most. He learnt so much, changed, fell truly in love and FOR WHAT? D&D should cover my therapy bills.
Yes! I can't get over it either. I'll never stop watching these videos and complaining about it. They turned a masterpiece into a cringefest. I still can't bring myself to rewatch season 8.
Same here. I will never get the time back that I invested in reading all the theories, lore etc. and I will also never-ever forgive or forget. Season 8 was like watching an accident unfold. I am BITTER about it to this day. I’ll never watch anything connected to their name EVER! I pretend to myself that the show was cancelled after season 7 😁 but even so, I can’t bring myself to rewatch a single episode. All my hopes rest with GRRM. I’m sure he will vindicate all my beloved characters that D&D assasinated!
I feel you man I read all the books too and spent so much time going through theories and reading forums... Ever since then I honestly haven't been able to get into any show the same way again
Same here i am still pissed about how bad they did this show , i rewatched the series not to long ago and just stopped after season 6 and imagine my own ending smh
Being unforgiving and staying angry is extremely unhealthy.
The problem with Jon's resurrection: they forgot (because they didn't have the books anymore) that resurrections are tricky. They forgot that Beric Dondarrion lost his humanity gradually with each resurrection and brought back a bit of darkness with him from the other side. And because they left out the whole Lady Stoneheart plot (according to them, because they didn't want zombies in their story, but of course Jon doesn't count lol), they completely ignored that nobody comes back from death just like nothing ever happened. It would have been important to bring back Jon... only he wasn't really Jon anymore, just like Beric Dondarrion was almost unrecognizable from the gallant knight he had been in life. Just lazy writing.
true. all that happened to jon was tormund making a small dick joke about him.
They do realize that the wights were essentially zombies right?
Well, with how dumb Jon's character seemed to become after he died with it culminating to him just mindlessly repeating a couple of phrases like "you are my queen", "I don't want it" by season 8, it does seem like he did lose his humanity even if that was just because of D&D not knowing how to write.
@@sluxi lol good point
I could see Jon retaining part of his OG personality, but making him more...I don't know..proud or wroth after his first death. Maybe from the other side he saw things, visions of who he truly is, or something. Anything could work and the possibilities are endless.
Jamie Lannister went from being an absolute pain in my ass character to someone I rooted for. And you are right about Charles Dance as Tywin Lannister. His voice modulation, the silence he takes between dialogues and the complete death stare he does in absolute silence should be shown to acting students.
Jaime* 😛
Rewatching early scene with him. It's crazy how they give hint of what happened with the mad king. And you can see every trait that make him likable. I was impressed
thank god his character died before the show's quality plummeted
I knew, as soon as Littlefinger gave Sansa over to Ramsay, that my worst fears about the show were coming to fruition. I had the worst sinking feeling, because there was NO way he would ever hand her over to anyone like Ramsay Bolton, not in a million years would book Littlefinger do that. He worshipped her mother, loved her ever since he was a little boy, and he adored Sansa like a beloved daughter as she was an extension of Catelyn. This one scene showed how little D&D knew about the characters and their motivations.
It was also a poor retread of her arc in Seasons 1-4. Like, the ending of her Season 4 arc was to show her maturing into her own as a player in the Game by learning under Littlefinger in The Vale but instead we get just another arc of her becoming a victim all the heighten Theon's story from the books. If you wanted to have Theon save a Stark from The Boltons, have it be Rickon he saves.
GRRM himself has said: “My Littlefinger would have never turned Sansa over to Ramsay. Never. He’s obsessed with her. Half the time he thinks she’s the daughter he never had - that he wishes he had, if he’d married Catelyn. And half the time he thinks she is Catelyn, and he wants her for himself. He’s not going to give her to somebody who would do bad things to her. That’s going to be very different in the books."
Not only was that whole thing in the show extremely out of character, it also made Littlefinger a complete dumbass.
@@-Zikade- Season 5 should’ve seen Sansa learning from Littlefinger while also trying to overthrow him.
You kidding me? Little finger had no idea who Ramsay was. It’s made clear in the TV series. You must’ve been watching a different show if you didn’t realize that.
@@DerekRabanal I mean, someone just said in the replies to my comment that GRRM himself has confirmed Littlefinger would never give her to Ramsay.
I was an extra during the last season and was involved in the Battle of Winterfell episode. I remember seeing Sam on the frontline outside the castle walls and just thinking “aw I liked Sam, shame he has to die this way”.
When I actually got to watch the episode I was extremely confused as to how he survived 😂 plot armour at its finest
Okay that must have been a cool experience being sort of the filming of that
@@Darksaviour it was unreal! They had a life-size replica of Winterfell built which was so cool to walk through! My 18 y/o self was also fangirling every time I saw an actor lmao
@@Coco-xb4qd
How did they use the army of the dead? Where their practical effects or where you fighting a full CGI army?
@@Darksaviour there were a group of a few hundred extras who played wights, myself included. Some people had prosthetics on but very few. The effects were mainly CGI and they basically copy-and-pasted us all to make it look like there were wayyyyy more of us.
We weren’t actually allowed to fight (which makes sense tbf lol), that was all up to the stunt guys.
@@Coco-xb4qd Proof or didn't happen.
The thing that got me, when you’re hundreds of feet in the air, you have a great field of view. So how Dany didn’t see the fleet was irritating.
She did see it. She just kind of forgot about it moments later.
@@johnzackarias11 lol
@@johnzackarias11 peak writing
Duh, the fleet was hiding behind the trees
I'm glad I'm not the only one upset over that obvious missed detail. It truly insults the intelligence of the viewer
If I remember correctly, Barristan was killed off because his actor complained to D&D about the poor writing and story decisions
not really, they made the decision to kill him and he pushed back saying how he was still alive in the books and had a lot more to offer to the story and if he was going to die to not make it so pointless, which according to d&d themselves “only made us want to kill him off more”
@@Anthony-tq4di It sounds like working with D&D can be a pretty horrible work environment unless you sing along to their tune. Also the more glimpses I get of these guy's real personalities the more they just seem like two shitty human beings which honestly doesn't surprise me after the way they knowingly disrespected the show with no regard for the fans, the actors, the crew, the author of the story or the story itself.
@@danniellynnI can’t remember where but I remember reading about how one them apparently has a fetish for woman with dark complexions and was one of the reasons they wanted to make a HBO series about if the south had won during the civil war.
I totally agree with all of this! Especially about the conversation between Robert and Cersei. That scene was so raw and it was clear this was the first time this husband and wife had talked honestly to each other, probably in their entire marriage. It was riveting. No action, no dragons, no explosions or deaths. Just pure dialogue and emotion. I ached for moments like this in seasons 5-8 😩
Exactly, such an incredible scene!
A beautiful scene with a lot of foreshadowing concerning Robert’s death by her, there’s a moment in the conversation when something snapped in Cersei and at that precise moment I think she decided to poison him.
This ☝🏻
I wish they had set up a scene like this with Dany and Jon, all their moments were rushed and just meh
@@loicromefort2730 well that and he slapped her after insulting him
Mark Addy's acting as Robert Baratheon is off the scale.
Bear in mind that this is the same person who played the pitiful, effete character in The Full Monty, and the comical squire in A Knight's Tale.
He plays a complex and demanding role, and completely owns it.
I still remember my utter disbelief when The Night King died. I was in complete denial and thought he would somehow return lol. The fact that a main plot throughout the entire show was “winter is coming” and it ended in one episode with winter never coming is kind of hilarious.
Killed in one hit… by a child.
Yeah, it's truly a masterpiece of garbage
Yes...I said the show ran around the "winter is coming line" since the start and I said to my Mom - ummm what winter SMH - mostly a short-lived dimly lit battle...ughh
@@Talldiva4528 I’d forgotten how dimly lit it was… constant ‘who is that?’ ‘Who died?’ ‘What? Where?’
Apparently the Long Night was just an exaggeration by someone who once had a particularly tough time getting a full night's rest. Who'd a thunk it.
I get upset about the horrible ending at least once a year. This probably sounds extreme, but D and D are two of the few “famous” people I’d be openly rude to if I met them in real life.
(they completely mistreated the cast, so they’d honestly deserve it)
That’s not extreme. THIS is:
I will NOT kill David and Dan, but I WISH THAT I *COULD!* Watching them die would give me more entertainment and joy than ANYTHING to come out of Season 8!
I wish we were the monsters that George R.R. Martin and Season 8 defenders say we are!
Once a year only?!
Just what they did to Emilia would be worth being rude to them, honestly.
@@bensdreamatorium8315 What a bunch of tosh. A sad little temper tantrum at people who spent 10 years of their life providing you with an unprecedented top-tier fantasy show of a whopping 73 episodes of near cinematic quality and inarguably one of the greatest shows in the history of television, whatever you may think of the ending. What have you accomplished in your sad little life that's even a fraction of this?
I was so excited when Arya and The Hound set off together to assassinate the queen. I couldn't wait to see how the dynamic shifts between them compared to their "companionship" in the earlier seasons.
So they set off from Winterfell and then like half an episode later or something they just teleport to Kings Landing. I was heartbroken.
HBO didn’t want the show to wrap up. They wanted more seasons and offered more money. D&D we’re in a hurry to move on to their Star Wars project.
Finally someone gets it. It was never about season 8 being awful (even though it was). It was 2 totally different shows. Seasons 1-4/ seasons 5-8. During season 7 I just fell out of love.
5 and 6 were spotty but at least they were thematically consistent and mostly had satisfying character and plot arcs that gave a sense of catharsis. If 7 and 8 had been of the same quality as 5-6, the show would have had a much better legacy. I don't think 5-8 would ever have been as good as 1-4 simply because Books 1-3 are narratively perfect for television and Books 4&5 are... not. But there was no excuse for 7-8 to be so bad they retroactively ruined the rest of the show.
@@bubastis6306 I agree, by the start of season 7 we were watching the worst version of GOT. The show was always at its best when, like the books, it was character driven. By the end of season 5 I knew the plot armor for the most popular characters was thick and the magic was gone. The whole point of GOT was the characters' one flaw, would be the reason for their death.
Plus some of the characters they didn't introduce, i.e strong belwas, lady stone heart, young griff, ect., was such a missed opportunity.
Jamie should've told Tyrion the truth about Tysha, and have it play out like the book. That would have been much more of a character arc, not bearded sad man tyrion. All of the dornish storyline, and Arya's storyline with the house of black and white were just awful.
Season 5 was jarring and disconnected character wise compared to seasons 1-4, and season 6 took the piss.
Exactly totally agree.
had the same experience with the show. really glad I decided to jump ship on season 7!!!
Stannis deserved better.
Maybe I am a bit late to the party, but I’d like to add something that completely exposes the problems of the last two seasons. I fell asleep in the last episode of season 7 and missed Littlefingers death. When I started watching season 8, I was wondering where he went because no one mentions him ever again. He just totally disappeared from the series as he had never existed in the first place. I think the handling of his death is really indicative of the development of the show. Back in the first few seasons, when an important character died, it was treated as a significant event in the world with severe consequences. But now, there was no time for it any more because we have to rush to the end. Really sad honestly…
Imagine if in Return of the Jedi Leia had fought Vader instead of Luke, and George Lucas’ explanation was just, “it felt right.”
And of course it subverted expectations.
I mean, that would actually have been fine, since he's her father too. Compared to this absolute mess, at least...
One of my big beefs with the last two seasons is the show used to be famed for writing “clever” characters. And indeed, they were very clever at one point.
By the last season we’re told characters like Varys, Sansa and Tyrion are smart but we’re not shown it.
Worse yet- instead of actions that tell me who these characters are and what they want to do… they just keep reminding you about famous lines from previous seasons. They didn’t know how a smart person talks anymore so they just went hey, remember when a smart character said this nearly a decade ago?
All these supposed tactical geniuses in one room and it occurred to no one to say, "Hey, maybe we shouldn't have all the vulnerable people in the crypt when this guy can raise the dead....?"
The thing is, that the show never wrote 'clever' characters, G.R.R. Martin did. They started to deviate from the books and the characters started to become increasingly dumber as time went by.
It’s unreasonable how mad and upset I still am about the way this show ended. The first four seasons are still what I consider the pinnacle of television and after that it just went downhill. Not to mention the utter disaster of those final three episodes.
Amazing video btw this is a near perfect review of the show.
It’s completely reasonable, it’s like watching someone make a 5 star dish and then spitting in it right in front of you and expecting you to still enjoy it.
The last 2 seasons ruined the whole series for me, it was by far my favorite show ever… and the last season felt like it just shít all over the fans.
I don’t even like to talk about it. I’m surprised I’m even watching this to be honest.
And the worst thing is: D&D still have a lot of source matterials for it.
That’s the reason I’ll never get over it. The first 4 or so seasons was the best fiction ever created.
HBO offered DnD 10 seasons but they declined. They were offered spots to write for Star Wars and just wanted to wrap GoT up so they could go do that… ironically tho Disney saw the season 8 backlash and decided to retract their offer
3 years later, I'm still mad and will enjoy spending time looking at videos crapping on season 7 & 8
It's one of those endings so bad it leaves you speechless because of how disappointing it was. You just sit there in silence with a feeling that can be described as a puzzle piece missing and you will never see the full picture of the puzzle. Kinda empty feeling in your gut, like "really? that's the ending." It's rewatchability was ruined for me by season 7 and 8. I would rather rewatch all 15 seasons of Supernatural 5 times.
Pretty accurate description of how I felt the moment Arya killed the night king. I knew it was over at that moment. There was no going back to anything remotely good lol
I do watch Supernatural instead just because at least it's a little more satisfying if not good.
Same here. I wasn't angry or sad, just completely confused and empty - and surprisingly indifferent, given that I've loved the show for so long.
@@curtthechameleon exactly. we all know supernatural falls off in quality pretty hard, but at least they don’t assassinate the characters, they just nerf/buff them and put them thru the same plot lines over and over again. and there’s a couple pretty satisfying endings within supernatural at season 5 and 11 so you can always stop there if you want to avoid the mid ass actual ending
What an amazing description. This is exactly how I felt.
In The first episode of HOTD, Viserys literally tells the prophecy for the future saying “ a Targareyan is needed to bring all the realms together and bring down the Long night “ a secret passed down from kings to the next generations after generations” only to be shit on S8. Arya killing the Night king is where the series completely destroyed itself
A gut stab from Arya, coming out of nowhere, was all that was needed to kill the all seeing all powerful night king. Hope dumb and dumber loses everything in life, for ruining what could have been the greatest tv show ever.
I mean if Daenarys and her army wasnt there he wouldve stwamrolled Westeros, thats still true even with Arya getting the kill steal. Not to mention the leader of the Westeros side was Jon who is also a Targaryen. No Jon or Dany, winter takes it all.
@@shihoblade wrong, D&D would've just had Arya teleport and kill the main bad guy.... which is exactly what she did
Agreed.
That was probably the most irredeemable moment of the entire abomination that was Season 8.
Agreed….all that build up and tension between Jon and the Night King for 2 seasons for nothing. No sword fight vs the Night King, no sword fight at all.
Instead we get Jon yelling at a dead ice dragon while Arya gets Jon’s big moment.
Jon being the "prince that was promise" in Aegon's prophecy. The "prince" was supposed to end the threat in the north. Then all he did in the battle was shouting at a dead dragon.
When the credits rolled on the last episode tens of millions of people were outraged.
My parents were traveling in Iceland at the time; they don’t speak Icelandic and don’t travel to tourist spots. They stay in B&Bs and walk trails enjoying nature and generally avoid media. They caught a whiff of the outrage even in such a remote place.
Imagine having angered that many people. They had better never write again. Who would possibly hire them?!
I remember thinking Cersei standing in her window drinking wine as the sept burned was so cool. Then that became the only thing her character did and it became much lamer.
sometimes i just wonder... what if HBO had sticked to their gut with wanting 10 seasons, and just FIRED D&D since they wanted to move on anyway, instead of just letting them do their thing... imagine..
GoT is both the best and worst TV-series i've ever seen. Its truely sad how it ended, because it felt like a betrayal. Not only to the fans, but to the story, characters, the world.... everything and everyone involved. Maybe very fitting GoT style, that it felt like a stab in the gut..
They should have fired Dumb and Dumber.
😅you can’t fire showrunners off their own show
D&D are the ones who pitched Game of Thrones to HBO in the first place
HBO agreed to the 7-8 seasons originally - showrunners’ plans don’t change just because the studio later on realised how much more money this thing was bringing in
20 million views for the final season is record breaking
@@tha_jet_king3537 Of course D&D could have been fired. AMC fired Frank Darabont after the first season of The Walking Dead and he (and a few others) created the show. D&D should have been fired.
@@tha_jet_king3537 they could absolutely have fired them
@@tha_jet_king3537 pitching the show doesn't mean you're the boss dude.
If I'm not mistaking, the conversation between Robert and Cersei was entirely written by Dan & Dave (it's not in the books). Just like the famous scene with Jamie visiting Tyrion in his cell and talking about their cousin. It's so sad to see that they used to put love and talent into the show, and then later just threw everything out the window.
Likewise every conversation between Varys and Littlefinger. The creator of this video obviously hasn't read them, the whole thing is just a recitation of things other people have said about the show. He reminds me of that guy Matt Damon argues with in the bar in Good Will Hunting. "Do you have any thoughts of your own on this matter?"
GRRM served as a ghost writer. They did not write anything good on their own.
@@safirestudioI think GRRM probably wrote a LOT more for this show (in the early seasons) then he’s actually credited for.
A big problem with the later seasons is that the big moments that happen in them work as Deus Ex Machinas to take out important pieces without a real contest and, importantly, eliminate conflicts that were driving the plot.
Cersei blowing up the Great Sept is a prime example: the power struggle between the Lannisters and the Tyrells is major plot element that makes the story way more interesting, one that Martin so far has not resolved. Instead of simply a Lannister Monarchy fighting outside threats like Robb and Stannis, we get two major families in the halls of power who are supposed to be allies but are actually locked in a deadly struggle and THIS is now back to being the primary conflict.
It‘s also a major piece of realism that shows us that thrones and Kings do not exist in a vacuum. Instead they are the result of often tenuous alliances that have to be maintained and can shift without warning. Cersei resolving this by a simple coup d‘etat is not only bad for the plot it also removes all that realism. Cersei simply killed all her main rivals and boom, suddenly no one is challenging her anymore even though that isn‘t how it works at all.
In the books, what we know about things like Robert‘s Rebellion but also Robb Stark‘s plotline make it very clear that none of these people are chosen by god. The power of the higher nobles depends on the support of the lesser nobles and they in turn expect to be reassured that they are being competently led and their interests are looked after. Not anymore. Now Cersei can just assassinate an entire rival house from her own side and that removes all potential obstacles to her power; even though in reality, the Lannisters desperately need the alliance with the Reach to hold.
The Red Wedding, btw, wasn‘t like this at all. Even though it ends the Northern Rebellion it actually complicates the plot and it‘s realistic because it targets a military rival the Lannisters don‘t need AND it removes the leadership of their main antagonists.
The Dornish Coup is another terrible execution of a political resolution. Prince Doran in the books is a major player of monumental importance. Doran is a master politician and he plays a much longer game than Robb or even Tywin. He is careful to try backing the winning horse but he also doesn‘t forget his justified grudge and is a major potential backer of the Targaryens. He may be slow-moving and feeble but the Dornish nobility trust him because he plays his hand flawlessly and has kept his side safe.
Enter the Sandsnakes who want to start a war they can‘t win and are also illegitimate. Liberal as they are, the Dornish noble houses have absolutely zero reason to back them, nor do House Martell‘s servants and other hangers-on. But no, they just automatically win by killing their own brother-in-law/uncle.
But even that‘s beside the point because the Martells (book-Martells) are actually a family and act like it. They have that in common with the Starks and Tyrells. Doran‘s brother, his illegitimate nieces and even his own daughter and heir, Arianne (they are based like that) may be impatient with Doran and try to get him to enter the war, even going to the length of rebellious actions intended to force Doran‘s hand. But in the end they are family: Oberyn and his children may be rash and stubborn, but they are also loyal and his daughters would never stoop to murdering their own uncle, or their own teenage cousins.
And this also is something that distinguishes them from the Lannisters: Tywin may be a brilliant politician, but he doesn‘t do family. He understands that his legacy ultimately rests on his children, but doesn‘t get that this means he needs them on his side and appeal to their emotional side. Oh yeah, and Tyrion, the one who actually takes after his father? He gets taken by a show trial Tywin was totally in charge of. Tywin could have gone after literally anyone. No one except Cersei really cares and she‘s not the one he needs most. But he doesn‘t get that.
It‘s for reasons like this that the Tyrells and Martells are actually my favorite noble families because they excel in every aspect of the game and that involves sticking together. Olenna doesn‘t disown her grandson because he‘s gay, she lets him to his thing and when Loras‘ boyfriend suddenly becomes the leading pretender to the throne, well, he immediately gets the backing of the entire house…in return for also marrying a member of the family who can give him legitimate heirs.
Yes this all sounds incredibly idealistic until you realize that this sort of family loyalty also makes Olenna and Doran much more powerful political actors. Their legacy isn‘t wasted the moment they get crossbowed on the shitter, because they went to the trouble of raising their kids to be fully-fledged adults. And hey, this actually stops them from getting crossbowed altogether.
Turns out if you don‘t traumatize your kids, they probably won‘t murder you in your own home. Unless you live in the show-universe, where cause and effect don‘t exist and literally anyone can be killed by their own children or nieces because that‘s how it actually works. Right?
Jon's resurrection in the books is gonna mean something. Him being Rhaegar's son is gonna mean something
... well, if GRRM ever gets around to finishing his book series. Personally, I think he's stuck and has no good way to end it so he's obfuscating and delaying. I'm sure some ghost writer will come in after GRRM's death to finish it off their way.
Its insane how there was this gigantic build up for Jon's parents, for it to mean absolutely nothing in the end. Totally pointless
Don't worry, just check out some ASoIaF theorists. 90% of them do a better job than Dumb and Dumber. Even the ones who believe Tyrion is a time-travelling fetus.
@@PommieUsian
We've been waiting over 11 years for the next book. I'd love for him to finish the books, but I can't help but wonder how much will be influenced by the show. I know he has his own thing going on...but the show finished it for him. In a very horrible way.
@@TheSafierdrgn when is the next book coming
I will never forgive the butchering of Jaimes development. I can take him returning to Cersei but the fact they made him say he never cared for innocents completely destroyed his complexity
I would argue that it is perfectly in character for him to say something like that as a lie (he always put on a show of bravado like this to hide his self esteem issues, so saying he doesn’t care when he thinks he has failed is completely within character), just not for him to mean it.
The truly sad part is that I remember gaslighting myself so hard just cause I couldn't accept how shit the final season was. Like after every episode I would try so hard to be excited and impressed but ultimately it was just too difficult not to be dissapointed.
Just read the book George RR Martin says the book has a different ending.
re: Mad Queen arc -- I've been saying since Season 8 started, Suzanne Collins did this 1000x better with President Coyne in the Hunger Games trilogy. IMO the rushed pacing is what really made that one fail in GoT. Or perhaps the failure of writers/HBO to understand the part of human nature this story line was tapping into.
I was SO disappointed by the lack of Stark lore affecting the plot. The whole point, I thought, of ice and fire was that Jon was half Targaryen and half Stark. But they didn’t do anything with it. Why make the Starks wargs? Why did the dire wolves get shuffled off? Why must there always be a Stark in Winterfell? Why were the starks being buried in the crypts such a big deal? Why did we find out the nights king was a stark?
Honestly, I expected some sort of magic reveal: the starks in the crypts are the only dead who cannot rise (or rise in defense of the living?), of the night king being killed with a blade wielded by a stark (explicitly explained as him only being vulnerable to his own family), something about Winterfell’s magic protecting people…. Just a lot of build up and no payoff, with the living Starks taking thrones (iron throne, queen of the north, king beyond the wall, wherever Arya ran off to), with no explanation of why that family was SO important for the last 8,000 years.
And while I was expecting Dany to go “Mad Queen” from the very first season, it was handled badly. They kept her a hero for too long, downplaying all her flaws and bad decisions (like burning the Tarlys and their grain), so that her final descent to madness was… more dramatic, I guess?
big facts. every prophecy built up or lore hinted at was completely ignored and disregarded. they had so much stuff, literally handfuls of choices to choose, and did nothing with none of them. extremely sad.
Or the Night King was a Stark himself.
Everyone killed people in this show, even Ned Stark or Jon when they were not loyal to them, so really Daenerys didn't do anything that was "mad". Or is it different because she's a woman?
@@samyloaiza98 "oR iS iT dIFferENt bECauSe sHeS a WomEn" You're just stupid. You're comparing executing traitors and oath breakers to burning down a city full of men, women, children, the sick, elderly, etc AFTER she heard the signal for capitulation.
Rickon stark was having the same dreams as bran early on in the show which is what foreshadowed bran being a warg but they never did anything with it
I just remember sitting there thinking… ‘they chose Bran?!’ Most disappointing and dull ruler possible.
OMG- yes! I was yelling at the screen. The dullest character who disappeared for an entire season gets to be king?
@@GiftSparks emote Bran. Give me facial expressions. Anything…. Honestly I forgot who he was…
I wanted Drogon to suddenly appear and burn them all!
i refuse to believe grrm planed bran to be on throne, NO FUCKING WAY
@@NostalgicMem0ries can you imagine if he trolled D&D with that "piece of info"? 😅
But... Emilia Clarke did give us an absolute gem of a performance. Her scene on the walls of KL will always be my favorite performance ever.
I really liked your suggestion about missandei’s execution triggering dany’s madness, haven’t heard that suggested before and I genuinely think thy could’ve worked so well with enough set up
yeah just like how the death of lucerys triggered rhaneyra.
20:20 both HBO and GRRM have very publicly said they asked D&D to make at least 10 seasons, 13 if possible, but D&D were ready to wrap up and move on with only 8 seasons to go do the Disney Star Wars projects.
and then they did not get hired by disney. small victories i guess
@@minderbart1 At least they got destroyed for destroying the story we all fell in love with. They’ll be caught on video working at dead end job soon.
@@MemoirsofaBasketcase Hopefully
If D&D didn't want to do it, replace them with writers who would. It's not like D&D were irreplaceable geniuses. They clearly were not.
@@annademo Thats why I don't buy HBO saying they wanted 10 seasons. They could have just hired someone else who wanted to go the distance. It's a cop out....no one wanted to be caught setting this dumpster fire
I lost my mind when they came up with the dumbest idea ever to to go the wall and capture a white to convince Cercei on the threat. In general the mystery of the white walkers was probably my favourite thing about the story and I was anxiosly waiting to see how it wraps up, but the fact that Arya just stabbed the guy and they all die and that's it?? How could we go from Hardhome to that?? NO MA'AM
Arya killing the Night King = Plot Armor and Lame Fanservice.
@@hybridtouch5362 absolutely. They chose Arya because Jon was too obvious. Can't get over how stupid that is!! I'm quite impressed with the first episode of HOTD but it reminds me of how annoyed and betrayed I feel by D&D 😅
@@SivanEzra D&D made season 7 a joke. I mean we hear all the time "winter is coming" and then what? Winter is suddenly over in JUST ONE EPISODE. We got more action in The Hound vs The ("I have plot armor and god mode activated") Mountain. Oh yeah, and don't forget theon charging towards the night king for no reason, a complete joke.
I think they chose Arya for the simple reason that if we were following her around for 7 seasons.. she has to do something, otherwise those 7 seasons are wasted. Like it doesn't work at all.. But if she didn't kill the Nightking, what's the point of her entire arc? No one cared about the Freys come season 8.
@@traviscue2099 Then simply kill her off or get her to fight some of the White Walker generals or do a infiltration mission and kill cersi. Anything better than the shit they gave her.
What was the point of exiling Jon to the (nonexistent!) wall? The free folk lives alongside the Westerosi, giants went extinct, and the white walkers were defeated...? So is he just going to help rebuild the wall to protect the Seven Kingdoms from a deserted landscape?
You are absolutely right about Charles Dance. His presense in every scene was so powerful. And i don't even want to think about season 7 and 8. Season 8 especially as i was so dumbfounded as to what we were getting. Battle of Winterfell was one of the worst episodes and a rushed outcome to a conflict i have ever seen. Almost everyone should have died in that episode and night king should have won that battle. I always imagined him attacking other kingdoms and the war that could have started with him finally reaching kings landing. How amazing that would have been to watch unfold which would have to led to more seasons.
Also, Jon and Night king fight. That would be so great but no. Just kill the biggest threat you set up since episode 1 and be done with. I knew right then and there, its just shit from here. The writing was just so so bad. Fan theories and predictions were 1000 times better than the garbage we got. We were seriously robbed of great show we would have still be watching. There was just so much to tell, so much to explore. The children of the forest, Jon's lineage, those babies at crasters, the prophecy, the symbols, and many more. None of it mattered.
Ahhh. I just get mad all over again whenever i think about it. Honestly i wished i had never watched season 8. Completely ruined the rewatch value for me.
One common idea I question is that D&D had mostly run out of book material by S5. In reality there is a lot they skipped over including the arc of a completely new character that will likely have a huge affect on several characters' story arcs, especially Dany's. Some it made sense to skip - like as much as I can appreciate Brienne's AFFC from a world building perspective, we didn't need an entire season of her traipsing around the Riverlands looking for Sansa (especially when we the audience know exactly where Sansa is). But Lady Stoneheart, the *actual* Dorne and Iron Islands plots instead of whatever the fuck we got in the show, the Northern conspiracy e.t.c. there was still plenty of material to work with. Sure, some fans would complain it's too slow but I'd rather a slow build-up than the break-neck speeds we got in S7 and 8.
Yeah, I don't think the only problem was the lack of source material, I think it's more complicated than that! They had plenty of material from the books and even if they didn't have the books ending all written out they had the author. They could have asked Martin to be more involved and Martin was somewhat involved in the production up until season 4...involvement that stopped around season 5, right when the problems started. We'll never know for sure of course, but my feeling is that D&D wanted to do their own thing for the final seasons of the show and it's very likely that their vision and Martin story started to collide in some way...but they are no Martin and things started to backfire very quickly and the scripts started to be bad. Then they were ready to move on and just wanted to wrap everything up as soon as possible. And at some point they didn't even try to do something decent, for me it's clear from S8 (and 7)...when I see S8 I don't think "Oh they tried to write a satisfying ending but they weren't able cause they don't have the vision or the skills of Martin" I thought "WTF is this nonsensical sh*t" 😅
The real problem is that books 4 and 5 are way too slow to work for TV. They have so many irrelevant plotlines like Brienne in Feast for Crows as you point out. So I don't blame D and D entirely for skipping on a lot of that stuff. Doesn't forgive them for season 8, but it's fair to give some of the blame to George RR Martin too.
lady stoneheart wouldve confused people, but yea the dorne storyline was a regurgitated mess in the show
Better call Saul has proven that having a slow build up works a thousand percent if your story provides a good pay off (yeah it would have been even slower in GoT but they had enough time to put some action in there as well).
I agree. I think they broke from GRRM and his story and started making their own. Tyrion and Euron are flat out different characters in the books. Also their own earlier plan for season 8 was to have wildfire wreck King's Landing. Since they were willing to change a detail that important within 1 season I think it is fair to question if they didn't just decide to change whatever they felt like in a big way from GRRM's story-he had left the show years earlier anyway. Thus we didn't see his ending so much as whatever they felt like doing at the moment.
“Your grace, Season 7 will have less episodes.”
“Fewer.”
Totally agree with everything here. Such a shame how things deteriorated toward the end - cramming too much in.
Lesser.
Grammar and Stannis reference. Nice.
Oh they were less
Beat me to it!! Fewer episodes 😌
Wait, you totally glossed over how Arya became a total kid when she could have gotten to Cersei. She spent all those seasons on her hit list reciting and ticking off names like a bad ass, only to have the hound convince her this vengeance isn't what she wanted, and she skips away! I was so pissed! She gets confused when the fire is unleashed, but she had been under crazier pressures and still kept her wits. But then they try to make her a boss when she takes out the Night King. Grr!
I can understand her giving up on Cersei i mean there's a Dragon burning down the city, it makes sense to retreat but what i can't understand is her not killing Daanerys after what she did. All the characters just became empty shells and slaves to the plot.
I was really excited when Sansa went into the crypt. I thought that there was going to be a payoff with the weird things around the Stark crips and the old kings of winter. I thought it was going to play into the saying that there must always be a stark at winterfell. But instead she held Tyrion's hand.
The weirdest thing is HBO wanted more seasons as well, but David and Dan somehow had enough pull to prevent that from happening.
It’s called a contract.
It’s not their writing I hate them for, it’s their ego. They could have walked away after season 6 and left the rest to HBO, if it bombed then not their fault, if it worked then all credit to them for strong start. Instead, crap that wrecks the joy of rewatching even the first season.
@@alexmoes3225 Season 5 and 6 already did too much damage. They should have left after season 4. Then the new showrunners could have adapted Feast and Dance properly.
@rogierb5945 it's hard to draw a line, especially without Winds and Dream. D&D removed as much magic as they could from the very start
Euron was so much creepier in the books. He was described as a classic pirate with an eye patch, and all the people that served on his ship had their tongues ripped out. And the guy is like on some trippy H.P. Lovecraft insanity. Show Euron was basically a wannabe Captain Jack Sparrow, but even Jack is basically the definitive version of a pirate.
You've said almost EXACTLY what I said when I first watched GOT, particularly w/ regards to the absolute goal line fumbling of the ball that was seasons 7 & 8. The only thing I somewhat disagree w/ is the Mad Queen arc, I thought it was an absolute atrocious drop of character development on the part of Danaerys that was every bit as bad as Jaime's IMO. What offended me the most about it, aside from the outright lack of justification of it, is how the writers literally tried to insult the intelligence of the viewers by seemingly switching the roles of Danaerys & Cercei. If there were ANYONE in the show who deserved the title of "Mad Queen", it was Cercei. She'd literally done everything in her power to earn it at that point.
Meanwhile, Danaerys had spent the bulk of her screentime fighting for the freedom of oppressed people, set on her returning to her homeland & reclaiming her birthright. Yet somehow, the writers chose at the very last season to switch these two characters' positions by attempting to make Cercei a sympathetic figure & portray Danaerys as this increasingly crazy woman looking to burn anyone alive for the most mundane of reasons. Like seriously, gtfoh. Add to that the way they had done my boy Jon in the previous season by denying him his moment against the Night King, in favor of giving Arya another moment of glory. It's undoubtedly the WORST example of writing I've ever seen on television in my 38 yrs of living.
listened to the whole thing.. MY QUEEN. You had such thorough explanations with everything that you said. Well done!
Great video! A few things to add to your commentary though which can easily be researched:
1. HBO executives wanted more seasons and episodes. It was 100% D&D who kept cutting it short. They even filmed a lot of scenes for season 7 & 8 that were never shown (like Cersei’s emotional birth scene that the actress actually referenced; and Bran and Sansa’s scene when Sansa and Arya were falling for Peter’s scheme in S07).
2. Ser Barristan Selmy’s death was actually added in by D&D when the actor, Ian McElhinney called D&D out for not knowing what they were doing with his character’s storyline and the rest of the show. It was their immature way of cutting out the rebels of the cast and to keep the other actors in-line. Ian actually read the series and knew a lot of the Lore and importance of how his character was supposed to influence Daenerys but cus he was holding the two lazy writers accountable, they had to write him off.
that's actually crazy omg i hate d&d
I had blocked the memory of Jon leaving Ghost. Thank you for making me relive this trauma.
You hit the nail on the head. Season 5 onward they deliberately abandoned the plot line Martin set up. If you've never delved into the books I really recommend it.
Theres so many season 8 video essays it's hard to come up with anything original that can give a new perspective at this point. But I appreciate your effort.
I agree with everything you said, though jons resurrection is very much expected to happen in the books. It's forshadowed by berick and lady stoneheart. The show just did it terribly, clearly d&d had no investment in the books deeper lore and fan theories. Jon, based on precedent, should have come back a bit different - different as in a bit colder, or unhinged, not more sad and boring
Season 7 was supposed to be about dany taking kings landing and killing cersei because we didn't need her in season 8, then season 8 was supposed to be about the night king bringing westeros to its knees. Victory against the night king wasn't satisfying because in the end he sucked as a villain.
Not even necessary. if the long night would have been carried out differently. Carried out in the spawn of days while they try to fall back to the south to end up with them beating the NK but losing almost everything, THEN HAVE JAIME go kill Cercei after as retributiom for breaking her word and being as much of a monster as the night king. That would have been satisfiying and bittersweet.
@@Baykko Yup, falling back from Winterfell was what I wanted too. I wanted the NK to win the battle and decapitate Bran lol.
There'd loads of story arcs then you could have resolved afterwards in the next season or 2 leading up to Dany's mad queen turn if that is the way GRRM wanted the story to finish. You could have had Theon/Yara v Euron, Sansa/Arya v Cersei bringing in Jaime's storyline etc etc.
I think you're making the same mistake the writers made which is to present cersei as an equal or even bigger threat to westeros than the night king, I mean one wants to be queen and the other is the end of the world itself.
It pissed me off everytime they mentioned that they're going to deal with the night king first and then ride south to fight for the iron throne, because it implied that the long night was some side quest before the main battle against cercei, it's like they knew they were going to survive.
What? Did you want a in-depth character study of the white walker for him to be a villain that doesn’t suck?
Newsflash. Not every villain needs a backstory. Sometimes evil is evil and that’s all there is to it. 🤦♂️
@@DerekRabanal what are you talking about? The show was building up a battle against the night king since the beginning and then in the end he was reduced to being a side quest.
I want to know who drained or covered the Winterfell godswood pool! We had Ned beside it, Wolf Bran reflecting on it and Hodor bathing in it. Who did the changes in landscaping? The Ironborn? The Boltons? Or maybe the art department forgot about it like Dany forgot about the Iron Fleet...
the Robert-Cersei scene is also one of my favourites in the show. Its up there with Jaime's bath and "Love is the Death of Duty"
I agree the conversation between robert and cersei was one of the best scenes. I don't even remember that being in the book but those 2 actors nailed it. They suddenly became 3D chars to me when they talked about their hopes and disappointments. And the way they showed how, despite all the hurt and their loathing of each other, they still shared an understanding and mutual respect that only long-time housemates/couples share... They suddenly went from fictional characters in my head to people I can imagine having existed and lived the life they described. They were so good.
D&D wrote that scene, GRRM agrees it’s an improvement on his book. One of extremely few
Easy answer, starting with the end of Season 4 (omission of Tysha/Cersei’s infidelity reveal/ when Jaime releases Tyrion), D & D went off the rails eliminating, simplifying and shuffling plot points and arcs to the point where they wrote themselves into a corner for Seasons 7 and 8.
They didn’t “run out” of source material, they just decided to take the last two books, and hack them up beyond recognition.
I would have LOVED to have seen the true Dornish storyline played out on screen, Lady Stoneheart on screen and Sansa in the vale. These hacks cut out the more 'complex' shit to have it be a basic good vs bad which didn't play out as Cersei was a villain from the start and they made Dany go mad because they had no clue what else to do.
@@themorganrileyshow5520 They wanted to “show off” Indira Varma, but Ellaria Sand’s speech in A Dance with Dragons is ten times as impactful as anything D&D ever came up with post season four. If they really wanted to have her in more, put her as a collaborator with Arianne or something.
Thank you. The person who made this video didn't read the book.
agree!
I always wanted to know more about Kinvara. Her talking to Varys in this hypnotic way was really cool!
"Ma queen!" lol great job on the video man, I subbed :)
Just found your channel man, and this video is pretty great! Keep it up!
Honestly, having say Jon and Dany have a Gil-Galad & Elendil moment with the Night King where they take him down together but suffer mortal wounds in the process would have been a thousand times more epic than the nonsense we actually got.
Literally no one died in the "Long Night".
@@shadow_realm47 Ser Jorah died, you fool! And his niece or whatever. They died.
@@shadow_realm47 Theon died
I still cannot understand how people say that Benioff & Weiss "run out of book material". They skipped AFFC entirely, so no, they didn't run out, they decided to abandon the books, because they wanted it to be over by season 7. Martin has said in multiple occasions, that there is enough in the books for up to 13 seasons, and anyone who has read them knows it could be more, if they were faithfully adapted within reason, wich, was not entirely done. The reason the firs 3 seasons were so good, it's because they still used much of what was in the books, by season four (I started to tune out by that point, not even watching season five) they started to deviate more, and the quality of the show didn't escalate with each new season, primarily because Benioff & Weiss don't know how cinematography works.
What annoys me is that they must have skipped AFFC due to the lack of action, even though dialogue wise AFFC is arguably one if the best in the series, ignoring Briennes journey with septon meribald, tyrion with young Griff, Sam in Braavos, Eurons speech (far better in the books) there is so much they could've done with season 5-6 if they cared about the material
Agreed. That they didn't just run out of book material but left the books can be seen in other things like that Tyrion and Euron are different characters in the books and show. There are other things that are meaningful differences like that the House of the UnDying visions are very different in books and show thus whatever they foreshadow will also be very different in books and show-or more likely that they were intended to foreshadow something in the books but D and D just wanted something that looked cool in the show and if they wanted to reuse it later was a side issue.
Lol yup blame DnDs cinematography skills…..they’re WRITERS, not cinematographers.
You think D&D actually read the books? They had George RR Martin himself to give them cliff-notes and outlines, which I presume was big enough that D&D confused as actual books. Once that stopped coming in the mail, they thought “I guess that’s everything” and wanted out because they knew they were in over their heads. So they just ripped off a band-aid and destroyed everything
I haven't read the books, does dany get betrayed and killed by john in the books too?
„Bran might as well be a tree at this point“
Im cryinggg 😭😭🤣🤣🤣☠️☠️☠️
I don't understand why people even want a season to show Daenery's descent into madness. Why can't we make her a hero. She was written fantastically overcoming every obstacle through intelligence, patience, and courage. She could have been a huge role model for being a kind queen and beyond madness of her clan and ignorance of other families.
GRRM doesn't do classic fantasy tropes though. The reason why GRRM killed Robb was because he knew people would expect a classic hero-arc from the character. His father being unjustly killed and him seeking revenge is a perfect set up but he wanted to subvert reader's expectations so he killed him instead. Giving Dany a classic hero-arc would pose the same problem.
Had the books been finished, she was sliding into a bit of a tyrant or mad Queen character. Most of her attempts to be a savior have blown up in her face and she is being pulled towards dark magic.
I mean I think the point is, no one deserves the throne. The idea of linage and monarchs is inherently based on b.s. I am ok with Game of Thrones not giving Dany the throne or Jon … because even if you get a “good” king or Queen sometimes, the system of blood inheritance making anyone better than anyone else to rule is, well, stupid. And there’s no guarantee the next generation will do any better AND they only get the job because ‘birth order says so’. I just wish they had spent more time on Dany basically being full of herself about her right to rule and when she went fully mad, actually committed to a true dismantling of the whole idea of kings and queens which had now just caused misery for generations. Game of Thrones never implied anyone who sat on the throne was meant to be a hero. And most of the people who felt they deserved to be there were the last people you wanted to have that kind of power. Including Dany. A true redemption arc for Dany would have been realizing her obsession with ‘reclaiming’ the throne was perpetrating a system that did more harm than good. Including the impact it had on her personally.
No heroes in game of thrones Dany is a grey character
Because that's not the story GRRM is writing. Dany wants to be queen because... she was born in the family she was. She believes it's her birthright. However the whole universe of AWOIAF is a big criticism of this societal model where people feel entitled to power because of who their parents were. So it makes sense if she decays into madness as her father in the books, however, the show didn't gave us enough build up for that in the last two seasons. Daenerys just went crazy for whatever.
I would argue D&D didn't run out of material after season 4 (though, yes, S5 _was_ definitely when the show began to decline) as the first 4 seasons are essentially the first 3 books. Instead, they just didn't bother adapting the ton of material in the fourth and fifth books for the next few seasons and it ended up making the ending even worse because of major plot lines they omitted.
they didn't run out.. hbo wanted 13 seasons.. D&D try to rush and complete it without handing it off to someone else.. so they can go do starwars
@@Queen-dl5ju And then lost their Star Wars deal after Disney/Lucasfilm saw the trainwreck they left behind in the later GOT seasons and especially the ending and how they managed to make the biggest show in the world completely disappear from the cultural zeitgeist the moment it ended because of how poorly it was managed. If anything is karma, them losing the Star Wars deal because they preferred to burn Game of Thrones instead of letting _anyone else_ that may have actually cared finish the show properly, that's definitely an amazing example of it.
@@CitroChannel i dont understand why HBO allowed them to do that, instead of just firing them and letting ANYONE else complete it.. its not like D&D owns the rights..
@@Queen-dl5ju because the law suits that may occur should HBO ended their contract prematurely. In hindsight, we knew that D&D ruined the show because we've seen the results. But HBO hadn't seen it at the time, after season 5, in HBO's point of view, D&D were doing their jobs though faulty but addequate, for evidents we still like show despite the red flags. In season 7, the damage was already done, firing D&D wouldn't solve anything anymore. So, they let them finish season 8 to be over with it .
@@Queen-dl5ju yeah in hindsight HBO should have just said if you don't want to finish will get someone else. I don't know all the details of the contract though.
I love how this is almost a 40 minute video, full of everything that went wrong with GoT and yet it isn't long enough to cover all that went wrong with that shitshow. Tells you something doesn't it
look up Glidus if you want really clever and funny breakdowns of where exactly each episode went wrong. His Pisstake series. Very fun.
Bullshit
idk, euron character alone, omfg, if you watch theories and books explanations about his character, he could have been one of most epic characters in history, to this day we dont know his full potential and mysteries surrounding him, but they made him some annoying ego creep?? fuck off dnd
Oh god, you must be a Star Wars “fan” too.
@@DerekRabanal No actually I'm not. Just watched the movies casually. Now go be a pleb somewhere else
Perfectly articulated bro. I think the exciting part of George still finishing 'The Winds of Winter' and House of the Dragon being so far incredible writing. We can actually come full circle and book readers can take seasons 1-4 and still get the profound ending - with purpose that wee all deserve
You had me at 'Bran may of well just been a tree'. Summed it up perfectly. Such a shame
It’s just so crazy how in season 8 they can perfectly nail a scene and tie back to earlier stuff we cared about and minutes later completely destroy previous set ups and plot lines. A great example is Theon protecting Bran at winterfell. That moment is perfect. It brings everything full circle. Theon goes out like an absolute hero, protecting someone he tried to kill years before. That’s good GOT right there. Moments later though, Arya comes and falcon punches the Night King and you’re just like huh? No set up, no tie in, no full circle just boom he’s dead
I do wish the Night King killed him in a way that was.... possible, though? Like oh yeah, just shove a wooden shaft through steel plate armor, that doesn't look absurd or anything. Other than that, yeah it was definitely the best moment in the episode.
Theon running at the Night King was stupid. He was their to BUY TIME. His job was to hold them off for as long as possible. Running into him was exactly as stupid as anything youd expect from this season. The couldn't do one thing that didn't beg questions.
@@NowhereMan7 stop bro. It doesn’t matter if it’s “stupid” what matters is the moment. He’s the only one left. He’s gotta do something. He looks down and sees this guy that years ago he tried to kill and does that look where both people understand what’s going to happen. He’s only there to delay just a little more. You add in the music and it’s just perfect. Don’t get all hung up on the tactics. Narratively that was great stuff. It added to the what weve been watching the last 7 years. That’s some good pay off to a season 2 set up. That’s all my point is.
With all of you’re writing experience and wisdom, please tell me how you would’ve had the night king killed.
@@DerekRabanal Anything would be better than lazy writers who are rushing to end a series.
I’m so glad somebody else recognized that the warning signs for Game of Thrones’ terrible ending was popping up in seasons 5 & 6. I almost stopped watching the show by season five but Hard Home kept me hooked to keep going. I wish I had stopped then 😔
For the record, I always end my rewatches with the season 6 finale and imagine my own fan fiction ending… it makes me the happiest. I hate that they show runners saved the most surprising death of all for last, when they killed the show.
Thank you for this. I feel the exact same way about it and sometimes I think I'll actually never really get over the unbelievable disappointment of it all.
I’m re-watching the series right now, and I have to say that knowing the ending kind of ruined the joy of the first few seasons. I can feel how excited those scenes made me feel the first time watching, and it just hurts knowing how these characters and plot lines will inevitably be ruined. I’m on season 6 right now and I’m debating if I should just finish it for the laughs and eyerolls or if I should just quit while I’m somewhat ahead. I’m cautiously optimistic about house of the dragon though! Great cast, GRRM is working on it, and I’m hoping HBO learned from the ultimate failure of GOT.
Season 1-6 follow the books with the main characters
Season 7-8 are complete BS from D&D.
SPOILER ALERT!!!
The Azor Ahai ... is the Three Heads of the Dragon (Daeny, Tyrion, Jon) not a single person ... and .. Lightbringer is their dragons.
D&D knew Tyrion is a Targaryen .. and that Dragons can SMELL what blood you have. Daeny's dragons know the smell of her blood and anybody closely related to her. This is why Drogon smell Jon & Season 7 & 8 and did not kill him .. and Viserion smelled Tyrion & did not kill him.
Each of the Dragon riders take the throne & die ... but together ... they save the living from the dead.
Daeny is the first Dragon rider to take the Throne & dies. This what the the vision in the House of Undying season 2 are all about.
And D&D knew this .. but decided to change everything in season 7 .. to make Jon the Azor Ahai and Daeny his Nissa. Cerseri & Daeny were suppose to die in Season 7. Seaon 8 was suppose to be about Tyrion then Jon taking the throne & dying ... but save the living from the dead ... leaving Jon's wife Queen Sansa with child and hopefully a dragon egg rulling the new westeros.
Rewatch season 6. It was setting up the three heads of the Dragon .. and ... Jon marrying Sansa to remain the King of the North. Jon is the Prince Sansa was always desired to love her .. and that Ned promised her. Remember that Ned kenw Jon was a Targaryen Prince.
Knowing how the show ends, I can't bring myself to rewatch it again. HotD is great by the way. It makes me forget how awful the ending of GoT was.
@@sitbc Again. Bad as the ending is, everybody has missed sign after sign from the two seasons that proves D&D know Tyrion is a Targaryen and the Azor Ahai is not Jon ..... but .... the three Heads of the Dragon ( Daeny, Tyrion, Jon).
Each Dragon rider takes the throne & dies ... but together they save the living from the dead. Daeny is the first rider to take the throne & die ... and ... Jon is the Last Hero of THREE.
The House of Undying vision in season 2 were approved by GRRM .... and had the Throne being lost/taken in Winter .... & ... Daeny dies North of the Wall.
In the show, the Throne was lost/taken in Winter(season 8) .. & ... nothing was going to kill Daeny north of the wall (season 7) even on the biggest dragon on the ground in front of the Night King.
Daeny died South of the Wall in Kingslanding. D&D knew exactly why GRRM approved the two visions of the throne being taken by Daney in Winter & Daeny meeting her dead husband & child north of the wall .... which is why. By the end of Season 6 ... it was Winter in Westeros, Daeny was sailing with her Army to take the Throne, Cersei had gone "Mad Queen" killing her enemies but losing her son, Bran was heading back to Winterfell to tell Jon & Sansa that they are COUSINS & Jon is a Prince, the Night King was about to reach the Wall ... and Tyrion is still wondering why he was not killed by the Dragons who clearly smelled something about him.
Meanwhile in Season 7 & 8 Jon ( a known) Targaryen and nephew of Daeny .... is sniffed by Drogon and not killed because Daenys Dragons know the smell of Daey's blood & anybody closely related to her. And Suddenly in Season 7 .... Tyrion becomes a complete moron, Daeny was not going to take the throne in Winter and not die north of the wall, ... and Bran was never to tell Jon & Sansa that they are COUSINS.
Daeny & Cersei were suppose to die in Season 7 ... Jon marries Sansa to remain the King of the North ...and Tyrion figures out that he is a Targaryen ... when all three Heads of the Dragon meet at Dragonstone.
Season 8 was suppose to be about Tyrion then Jon taking the throne & dying but finally defeating the Night King ... leaving Queen Sansa with child & hopefully an dragon egg to rule the new Westeros. Jon is the Prince that was Promised for Sansa. The Azor Ahai ... is Daeny, Tyrion & Jon.
D&D knew the book ending, but chose to make Jon the Azor Ahai, and Daeny his Nissa that Jon has to kill because she goes "Mad Queen." Cersei was suppose to go Mad Queen ... with Jaime forced to kill her or Arya with Jaime's face. D&D simply are terrible writers.
Again. Everybody has missed the clear signs in both seasons that prove D&D knew the ending but decided to change it .. because of how awful the writing.
Great writing s1 - 4. Good but clearly weaker writing s5 - 6. And complete garbage s 7 - 8. D&D knew Daeny is the first dragon rider to take the throne & will die ... in winter ... north of the wall.
Where the hell was GRRM when they wrote and filmed seasons 5-8 ?! I consider that guy to be the number one responsible person for the downfall since he didn't even bother to continue the book series or oversee the show, write episodes for the show etc.
@@nymphey What normally happens is Producers buy rights from an author ... and then shop the Show to a Studio/Network/Streaming service.
Clearly D&D got a lot of rights for the TV show, from GRRM and likewise with HBO. This is why HBO had to beg for 10 seasons .. otherwise they would have fired D&D and brought in new producers.
For whatever reason, GRRM decided to not get involved with the writing for s5 on and we started to see how crappy D&D are at writing. Great Producers .. but mediocre at best as writers.
But bad as D&D were for 5 - 6 ... GRRM did tell them the ending, and likely asked them to write an alternative.
It is dragon lore that they can SMELL what blood you have, which is why almost all dragon riders have Targaryen blood. Daeny's dragons know the smell of her blood and anybody related to her. This is why Drogon was seen smelling Jon in Season 7 & Season 8 and accepted him. D& D knew the dragon lore ... and that Quentyn Martell visited Daeny's dragons locked in the cellar believing he would be safe because he had Targaryen blood. He did not have Daeny's blood and was killed.
Again D&D was told the ending before they finished Season 6 ... which had Tyrion visiting Daeny's dragon's locked in the cellar believing he would be safe because dragons are clever and know he's a friend. lol. Tyrion was no killed ... because the Dragons smelled something about his blood. Tyrion visit was D&D's version of the Quentyn Martel's visit ... proves Tyrion is Daeny's bastard brother... and suggested that Tyrion will figure out that he is a Targaryen next season after Bran tells Jon & Sansa that they are COUSINS and he is a Prince ( the Ned promised). Not only did Seaosn 6 reveal the Azor Ahai ... is the Three Heads of the Dragon, Jon & Sansa will marry for Jon to remain the King of the North but also how the show was suppose to end starting with Cersei & Daeny dying in Season 7.
GRRM approved the House of Undying visions in Season 2 .. which showed the Throne being taking in Winter ... & ... Daeny dying north of the wall. You needed to know Tyrion was a Targaryen ... and therefore the three heads of the Dragon is the Azor Ahai and Jon is simply the Last hero ( of three) to take the throne & die ... saving the living form the dead.
Again. The ending was derived from Season 1 - 6 and the drogon lore about smelling what blood you have. GRRM is repeating the Conquest of Westoros by Aegon ... with the Three Heads of the Dragon and the Prince that was Promised.
Daeny is the first dragon rider to take the throne and will die ... north of the wall. By the end of Season 6 ... it was now winter in Kingslanding. Daeny & Tyrion had heading to Westeros to take the throne from Cersei and will likely meet Jon at Dragonstone as Aegon conquered Westoeros from there. But Jon Daeny & tyrion ... are saving Westeros not conquering it. And the Knight King had reached the Wall.
The vision had Daeny taking the throne in winter and dying north of the wall. Before any trailers for season 7 ... Daeny will be at Kingslanding( to take the throne) & Dragonstone to meet Jon to save the living form the Dead .. and will be flying North of the Wall with Drogon. Again. Before any trailers ... the Throne is at Kinglanding and it is now winter ... and Daeny will be North of the Wall for some reason like ... save her Nephew.
D&D knew Jon marries Sansa to remain King of the North, Daeny takes the throne in Winter after Cersei goes Mad Queen with Jaime killing her, Jon tells Deaney at Dragonstone that he has no interest in the throne and needs her help to fight the Night King, Tyrion figures out that he is a Targaryen, Jon goes North of the Wall to find the the Children of the Forest but it is a trap by the Night King ... Daeny flies North of the Wall to save her nephew and is killed. Jon escapes and joins Tyrion who then takes the throne with his dragon Viserion. End of Season 7. Bye bye Daeny. Hello King Tyrion Season 8, then King Jon and finally Queen Sansa with child and a dragon egg.
Bring on the House of the Dragon.
D&D knew the ending, was told to by GRRM to write an alternative ... without revealing Jaime kills Mad Queen Cersei, Jon marries Sansa, Tyrion is a Targ and they all die .. to save the living from the dead. They are bad writers but their job was difficult because everything from 1 - 6 was leading to Sansa & Jon marrying and Deeny is the first of three dragon riders to take the throne & die.
GRRM kept all the good stuff for his Book.
I'm sure there's already a comment about this, but still: HBO wanted more seasons of GoT, they were more than willing to give as much money as needed, but D&D said no; they wanted shorter episodes and they wanted to end it with season 8
D&D actually wanted to end it at 7. The only reason we even got 8 was because HBO begged them. That's why both were shortened. D&D said 10 more episodes and HBO said please, please add a few more episodes and we'll just split it in two seasons. And here we are 😔
@@chandrawagner4061 Frankly, I'm kinda tired of D&D taking all this shit. They signed up to bring an EXISTING work of fiction to film, and this they did brilliantly. They NEVER signed up to CREATE the work of fiction. We don't know whether GRRM dropped the ball because he's a self-indulgent twit or whether he was in a snit because of inevitable changes during the filming, but the show didn't begin to unravel until D&D ran out of source material -- against all contractual agreements -- and were tasked to do what their job description never included. D&D did the best with what they had, which was NOTHING. Lay that at the feet of GRRM.
@@pricklypear7516 I would agree if there wasn't copious amounts of adaptable material from the books. Like to name a notable few characters and plotlines thrown out by D&D you have Lady Stoneheart, Aegon Targaryon, Jon Connington, Stannis' plotline at the wall, Sansa's plotline with little finger, Tyrion's plotline, the Dorne plotline, the ACTUAL Euron Greyjoy with a god damn crew of warlocks, valyrian steel armor, and a horn that can control dragon. They had so many characters, arcs and plotlines to follow up and adapt and they just TOSSED them out for more bland and conventional Hollywood story telling which absolutely was their fault. D&D are just hacks
@@pricklypear7516 I disagree. While George definitely holds some of the blame for not finishing the story, D&D pushed him out. He has discussed when talking about HotD how excited he is that he has more input and involvement then he did on later GoT seasons, later seasons. He was involved in GoT to the point of the purple wedding where he wrote The Lion and the Rose, in which he wrote notes and characters that should show up to foreshadow future book 4 & 5 events, that D&D took out. At that time there were two more books to go through in the show and the assumption was still that Winds would come out before the next season, and they still took out things he put in to help them integrate future events. The purple wedding was book 3. There were still 2 more books of material. It all got thrown out by the end of season 4 and going into season 5. If they didn't want to "create" the ending, then they should have worked with George and they wouldnt have taken out important details and characters. Even if he had finished Winds before season 5 as planned, they had already taken out so much and were already determined to go down a path that didnt follow the books.
George wouldn't give away everything, of course, but if he was still involved, they could have checked things with him, included necessary characters, gotten an idea of certain character's arcs (*cough cough* tyrion who is on track to becoming a villian).
I'm tired of the "it went bad when they ran out of material" defense. Because that's bullshit. Feast and Dance could have been 2 seasons. Those books are massive. They have setups for future events that are obvious. They used a few plot points from both books in season 5 and tossed the rest.
D&D got cocky. When the first pilot was shit, they realized it. They realized they were in over their heads and had no experience creating a show or project on this level. And they told HBO what they did wrong, got input, and told HBO how they could fix it. And they did, masterfully. That's why they got the job, that's why they were able to continue with series after wasting millions on a shitty plot. But along the way, they forgot that they had no idea what they were doing. They got a big head and decided they knew better because everyone loved the show. They ignored George's input and forged ahead with what they thought the fans wanted, more live horses, more big battles and wow moments. We need to have sansa be jeyne so who cares that littlefinger would never be dumb enough to come up with a shitty plan to sell sansa to the boltons and it helps him in no way. We need that shocking rape scene. We need stannis to take his wife and daughter into battle even though that is stupid and out of character because we need that shocking death scene. It's Game of Thrones! *sarcasm*
If they didn't want to create the ending, they should have left when they were tired after season 6 and given it to people who would have cared. Or they would have kept working with George while they still had book material. If they had left, then if the ending was bad, the narrative would have been "the show was so much better when D&D ran it". But they didn't. They made the decision to make this show before the books were all out, they made the decision to ignore George's input, they made the decision to remove important characters and plot points, they made the decision to rush the ending and not even give us 2 full seasons to attempt to properly wrap it up, they get to deal with the scorn of millions of fans who invested years and millions of dollars in merchandise and countless hours of theorizing and discussion and reading and pouring over scene details. They don't get to hide behind "well Martin never finished the books". They had so many outs, so many options. And you know what's the worst part? They were proud of that garbage. They submitted that garbage finale for a best writing emmy. It's not "poor them, daddy george didnt finish so they didnt have anything", them in their big headed egos, wrote all of that, signed their star wars deal, and stood up and told the world "this ending is good enough to win best writing! Arent we the best?" They thought they did great. And they quickly found out they were wrong. George needs to finish the books and should have finished them years ago, but D&D made their bed and they can lie in it.
@@sunburn8273 Yes! And they tossed them when they were still anticipating book 6 coming out before season 5. Season 4 was still covering Storm. They had 2 more books to cover before the new one and they only kinda squeezed in some plots from both into one season. If they actually wanted to "adapt the books" not "create an ending" they wouldnt have thrown out books 4 & 5 when they thought Winds was coming soon.
Great insight on the deaths in 1-4 vs 5-8. Death and violence driving the plot versus death and violence for shock and titillation.
I loved your analysis. I agree with everything you said, thank you for being able to sum up what I couldn't!
HBO DID NOT want to wrap the show up in less seasons. On the contrary, they went on record they wanted 10-12 seasons (just as Martin did). D&D REFUSED!! In fact, they wanted to wrap it up in 7 seasons but in the end agreed to do it in 8 with the lest 2 seasons being shorter..
D&D wanted to run over to Disney to get that sweet, sweet opportunity to write a Star Wars script.
It never went anywhere.
well in the end the fault is in George for giving DnD all the rights
The Lannister’s were probably the most interesting family. The downfall of GOT was Tywin Lannister dying.
The downfall was Tyrion. It was all that smug-knows-it-all's fault to the end. Dany had dragons, the Dothrakis, the Unsullied, Daario, Jorah, Missandei, Dorne, the Reach, half of the Greyjoys, Varys, and Missandei and she already unified some part of Essos, plus sat on Dragonstone. Had she just attack and kill Cersei from the start like Olenna said, the Targaryens would be restored and they still had time and even more people to save the North from Whitewalkers.
But noooo... the dwarf just wouldn't let Dany kill his stupid siblings.
It got to a point where are the interesting characters were dead like Tywin Varys Littlefinger etc., that they were left with the unnamed Prince of Dorne, Yohn Royce and Bronn being master of coin even though he didn't know what a loan was lol. It got so bad
Sounds like you prefer to watch a show where main characters don’t die then….main characters dying is what makes shows like this interesting.
If you really think the death of Tywin was the downfall of this show, I’d hate to know what other shows you like to watch.
@@DerekRabanal The death of Tywin contributed to the downfall of the show simply because they didn't have anyone interesting or credible to fill that gap. It's fine to kill main characters, but you'd better have other interesting characters. Tywin died, but they needed a strong, competent presence in King's Landing so that Dany wouldn't just steamroll anything, so starting with Season 7, they just took Tywin's old character traits and gave them to Cersei. She was a completely different character with different attributes.... in particular, her sudden military tactical genius, a quality she showed absolutely no sign of having before; just the opposite, as Tywin had pointed out.
Again the acting, cinematography, direction, music, effects are all incredible and are the only things the later seasons can hang their hat on. They’re the only things that make a full series rewatch worthwhile. The story telling post season five is criminal and negates everything they’ve built up from season 1 episode 1. It’s just unbelievably sad.
One of the biggest problems of the show is that they cut a bunch of characters who are important to the plot or they were merged with other characters. Sansa married to Ramsay is not a thing in the books. That's Jeyne Poole, her best friend, who was taken by Littlefinger to work in one of his brothels after Ned's fall in King's Landing. She is later passed off as Arya so that the Boltons can claim Winterfell. The northern lords didn't turn their backs on the Starks. They are marching in the winter storms to rescue "Arya" and restore Winterfell to the Starks. They have one of the most loyal houses to the Starks in the north turn Rickon in to the Boltons. Theon takes off with Jeyne, but they end up with Stannis. Asha (Yara) is Stannis's prisoner after she was captured at Deepwood. Stannis is preparing for battle against the Boltons and the Freys. They're on the march.
They cut Young Griff from the story and Varys's entire storyline was gutted because of it. They turned Cersei into some kind of mother earth and exceptional tactician when she is none of that in the books and her writing foreshadows her descent into madness.
They cut the Tysha plot out entirely from the Jaime and Tyrion story and the reason Tyrion ends up murdering Tywin. Jaime and Tyrion part on very bad terms, but they frequently think of one another. Tyrion with hurt and desperation. Jaime with fondness and anger. Jaime has completely washed his hands off Cersei. She writes him a desperate letter after her arrest to come and defend her against the Faith, but he burns the letter. They cut Lady Stoneheart out, so it affected both his arc and Brienne's. Brienne is captured by the Brotherhood without Banners that is led by a revenant Catelyn and she wants Jaime.
Mance is not dead. Brynden Blackfish is also still alive. He didn't go on a suicide mission, he escaped Riverrun. Brienne never met him or chatted with him, she was never sent by Sansa to the riverlands. Barristan is not dead. In fact the whole plot in Meereen is also completely different. The Dorne plot is completely different too. They cut Quentyn and Arianne out who have some substantial roles to play.
They changed the Red Wedding too, even though it's still one of the most harrowing scenes there was. There is no Talissa in the books, no pregnancy either. Robb was married to Jeyne Westerling and her mother knew what was coming.
D&D thought they could do better than GRRM and tried to service their own egos. Season 7 and 8 are especially unwatchable.
Also a reason for Jon to kill the Night King and not Arya: he was REVIVED. Why would he get revived if not for that? What about Azor Ahai and the prince who was promised? Well, looks like he got revived for nothing.
The battle against the dead should have lasted an entire season, and then another entire season for Cersei and King's landing. Or the Night King killing everybody and winning wouldn't have been a bad ending at all.
Also Bran not using his powers for anything useful was not mentioned enough, man we all wanted him to control a dragon.
PD: AMAZING VIDEO
Azor Ahai was most definitely fulfilled, in fact the prophecy describes the entire S8 almost to the letter:
Azor Ahai needed to forge a hero's sword, so he labored for thirty days and thirty nights at the sacred fires of a temple until it was done. However, when he went to temper it in water[=ice=NK], the sword broke [NK was not the ultimate evil and Jon didn't get to kill him].
He was not one to give up easily, so he started over. Azor Ahai took fifty days and fifty nights to make another sword better than the first. To temper it this time, he captured a lion [Cersei] and drove the sword into its heart, but once more the steel shattered. [Cersei was not the ultimate evil and Jon didn't get to kill her].
The third time, with a heavy heart, for he knew beforehand what he must do to finish the blade [he knew the choice he had to make], Azor Ahai worked for a hundred days and nights until it was finished. This time, he called for his wife, Nissa Nissa [Dany], and asked her to bare her breast. He drove his sword into her living heart, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating Lightbringer [Dany was the ultimate evil!], the Red Sword of Heroes [Jon's moral convictions and the commitment to do the right thing].
According to prophecy, in ancient books of Asshai from over five thousand years ago, Azor Ahai is to be reborn again as a champion sent by R'hllor.[Jon being revived] This will occur after a long summer when an evil, cold darkness descends upon the world.[Dany!] It is said that wielding Lightbringer once again, Azor Ahai [Jon] will stand against the darkness and if he fails, the world fails with him. [If Jon had failed to stop Dany, she would have conquered the whole world]
Long story short, Jon kills the person he loves, Dany, to save the world from terrible evil, also Dany.
For 29:00 My personal theory was that during development, Brienne was meant to die at Winterfell. That one change would have made Jaime's arc so much more tragic. It took 8 seasons for Jaime to realize the value of the vows he took as a knight, and he only really began to see them as important when he saw Brienne actually living up to the ideal of what chivalry and honor is supposed to be. Originally scoffing at her, he eventually saw in her the type of man he wanted to be. And he also saw in her a mirror of his own life, someone who wanted to be good, but was eventually put down by the world around her. He grew to care for her, even love her, and FINALLY escaped Cersei's claws, the last obstacle he had to better himself. And then, just after he opens himself up to Brienne completely, giving her literally all she wanted in life in a man who loved her for her and the recognition of knighthood, she goes off and dies in battle.
I don't think Jaime was actually meant to BELIEVE what he said to Tyrion. He went back to Cersei because in his grief, he fell back on his own shortcomings. He shut himself down again because right before his eyes the symbol of all that good he had striven for was just cut down by the cold, uncaring blade of reality (at least in his mind). Like an alcoholic relapsing, he falls back into the lies he told himself as a defense mechanism because that is the way he dealt with his grief and depression for most of his life.
But, by not having Brienne die in battle, that WHOLE arc literally just doesn't work. It could have been tragic but reasonable, a good man coming into his own only to fall down at the last moment because he couldn't see his own worth in his grief. But no, I guess HBO needed Brienne to survive for marketing purposes or something, and here we are.
I wish HBO had hired me, an untrained hack, to write Season 8. I swear I could have done at least marginally better.
I honestly cannot understand how people still miss the point of Jaime going back to Cersei. Yes, he was on a redeeming and redemption arc, yes he isn't a terrible person as demonstrated by the love he has for Tyrion and the respect he has for Brienne and duty, etc.
But he has one major flaw (among others of course, no one is perfect in GOT), _he is addicted to Cersei, always has been_ .
Just for comparison sake: imagine Jaime as a drug addict who wants to clean up and is actually doing good, but then suddenly regresses and ends up consuming drugs again. He tried, but failed to clean up. He tried getting away from his sister, but in the end couldn't because he loves her too much and is addicted too much.
If anyone says that is "character assassination" then that really doesn't make sense because those things happen. Grey characters not only speak about their morality, but also about their habits and tendencies.
My queen. Very well said and put together video. I so wish they would remake the last season.
The sad thing is that the direction, cinematogrophy and acting were, generally, still great in seasons 5-7. Like, the battle of the bastards and Dannie crushing the Lannister army were damn GREAT.
It was mostly the writing that failed.
I think it was HBO who was pushing for more seasons the most. D&D simply wanted to be done with the show, which ruined the entire legacy of it.
The irony being they burned their own careers to the ground. No Star Wars for you, hacks! I'm sure they got paid enough for GoT and can probably find more work in the future - but by rushing out the end of an epic show and treating it with such disrespect no big IP will ever be entrusted to them ever again. It'll be Lifetime Christmas Specials from now on, at best.
@@andromidius they're currently working at Netflix on a new show. I hope it bombs
@@gus9663 I hope to whoever is the true god in the sky that their show tanks all the way to the core of the earth.
Yes and yes
2 “bad” seasons is enough for the legacy to be ruined for you huh? I’m sure you would’ve done a better job with the last two seasons with all your writing experience and all.
My problem was not simply that Daenerys became a "mad queen" through bad writing. I never saw the need for her to become one in the first place. Why are most of those who don't have a problem with Daenerys becoming the "mad queen" are men? Why make Daenerys the mad queen, when Cersei had already become one? The latter had the Sept of Baelor destroyed, continued her efforts to kill her brother Tyrion and later, refused to help defend Westeros from the White Walkers. What is the fucking point in bringing about a second mad queen, when the first one had recently emerged at the end of Season 6? Good fucking grief!
👏👏👏👏 You are 100% right!
1000% agree!!!
The mad queen arc was good simply because of the flip of a coin reference about targaryens, having her and Jon as direct opposites could of been a really good plot point, both targaryens, one who lost the plot and the other who kept sane and true regardless of the circumstances
@@asalwak315 that sounds logical but I can't see this in the season.
Jon's true heritage is dropped almost immediately and doesn't play a big role. You could have forgotten that information and the show wouldn't change. So the viewer doesn't view Jon as a Targaryen. Therefore the analogy is lost.
Also Daenerys' fall either didn't have enough time or the right motivation
@@annachase6036 that's the problem though isn't it? All these great storylines being led up too just for inadequate writers to fumble them and somehow nosedive what was a built storyline that dropped in their hands, essentially good ideas are all around in GoT, most of them were just horribly put into practice
I love how the civilians of King’s Landing went from loathing Cersei, spitting on and heckling her during her walk of shame to being completely cool with her after she blew up the sept. Who knew that all Cersei had to do to get KL civilians on her side was to blow up their most SACRED and beloved building. Somehow after that atrocity, she received support from the KL public as a whole! Make it make sense! I remember watching the sept explode and being pumped for upcoming episodes because I KNEW King’s Landing would try to make Cersei pay for what she did. I was such a naive fan back then. “My sweet summer child” brain didn’t realize how idiotic D&D was. Had I known what I know now, I would have been alerted to the fact that D&D no longer care about continuity nor consequences, and would’ve drastically lowered my expectations for Cersei receiving consequences or blame.
i remember reading that the actors were a bit tired of filming and they took a year brake. then hbo offered many tens of millions to make another 10-12 episode season but D&D settled on 6 for the final. season 7 was a bit rough in that it seemed to separate from a stand along, awesome story line - and more into a standard Hollywood's scripting.
i wish we could have just collectively taken this show away from D and D and found people who were actually willing to put some thought into this shit. It's so upsetting because they really took one of the best shows ever and just absolutely trashed it. I'll never forgive them for what they did to Dany, like I'm fine with her going mad but it doesnt just happen that quickly and for no good reason. So frustrating.
When the time came for Dan and Dave to end the Cersei storyline, they froze and decided to spend Season 7 propping up Cersei into a force Dany must contend with and that turned out to be one Giant mistake. If they were preparing to end the Cersei Storyline, they would have made diferent decisions in season 6 that would eventually make the Conquest of Kingslanding more acceptable.
Season 6 Finale should have Ended with Cersei's death not her Coronation. Jaime had gone to the riverrun with the Lanister army. Bron control the City watch. King Tommen is in Kingslanding under the protection of the City watch, Tyrel and the Baratheons loyal to King Robbert and his heir. Tommen's death means the Baratheons are gone. So the only security Cersei would have in Kingslanding are the city watch. So you blow up a religious building where people's family members and loved ones were worshipping and then you proclaim yourself Queen without an Army and the Tyrel Army and all the angry Mobs of Kingslanding does nothing? It would be one thing if the mob stormed the Red Keep and were successfully repelled but that should have been done not nothing.
Everything pointed to cersei being dead or exiled before the end of season 6 yet she ended up lasting till the very end because everyone just decided to not take over
@@alyssinclair8598 If they had worked with the bounty hunters searching for Tyrion and beheading Dwarves, That would have been the perfect opportunity to fullfil the Valonquar prophecy and Cersei would have brought it to be by her own actions.
Right after the death of Tommen, while Cersei is in her chambers sleeping Tyrion will appear and stab her in the throat.
Cersei should have been defeated and dead within the first two episodes of season 7. By all accounts, she stood zero chance. Dany had soldiers, horses, ships, and inland allies. Cersei had an army she technically shouldn't have been able to pay two seasons ago, an entire continent opposed to her rule, and a city of people that never liked her in the first place who now had every reason to dispose of civility and demand her head. And that's before we take the game-breaking dragons into account. This war should have been so lopsided that it would be over before afternoon tea.
@@InvertedWIng it genuinely felt like dany wanted to finish her side quests before the final level the way it was written
I love the interpretation of season one as a murder mystery that "sprawls out" in many directions because we came to realize like Catlyn at the red wedding that nothing we witnessed could be trusted.
MA QUEEN ❤ Very good video... Thank you, loving your work!