The most annoying enemy in Doom 2, whose job is to spit out the most annoying enemy in Doom 1, reveals the most annoyingly kept secret in this game. Add another layer of annoying, and you could spawn a second John Romero.
I agree, fuck Lost Souls, those enemies are supposed to be weak annoying fodder (Basically Medusa Heads but for Doom) then why the fuck are they bullet sponges? it's been 25 years since the release of Ultimate Doom and I still can't get over that design choice xd
Yea, I am wondering if this will be incorporated into the 100% category, or will it be moved to a new 100%, with the old runs being labeled differently. Worse things have happened in other games, so we'll see.
As far as I know, the map will not require 100% secrets for the traditional UV-max category because it is a glitch and it makes the map quite unfun in a way. The original rules in compet~n rules stated that only certain % of the secrets is necessary in this map, but of course rules can change. It would be quite unfair to disqualify 25 years worth of speedrunning because players werent aware of how to trigger one bugged 'secret revealed' trigger, even though the secret itself was known. Anyways, only time will tell in which direction it evolves.
Fun Fact: That's how they work in real life. Classic Doom is one of the few games in history to actually have a realistic shotgun. In video games, they are extremely commonly portrayed as close ranged weapons with high spread. Except... This just isn't the case. There is a part of a shotgun called a "Choke" that tightens the spread and allows for high accuracy. Shotguns were designed for long range.
@@PriyanshuSinhasc Oh yeah, i will utter about every games i want to tell so let me list some. Escape From Tarkov Insurgency Sandstorm Squad Post scriptum Hell let loose
That's so ridiculous. I had the same situation in a game called Nuclear Throne. Kind of a bullet hell, roquelike. While I was fighting with a horde of enemies, somewhere in the corner there were two mobs that happen to have a friendly fire, just standing there, doing nothing, until one of them shoot another and he turned and was like "why? :(" I had to pause the game from laughing so hard, it was so unexpected.
For those that do not know what is happening here, the Pain Elemental is triggering that secret by the teleporter. Normally, the secret is too thin to trigger because you would normally teleport before the secret would trigger so 100% secrets were considered impossible. This also happened on another map (I can’t remember what specific map) but the Pain Elemental can spawn a Lost Soul inside the player and allow you to clip through the floor for a bit and trigger the broken secret.
@@ihswap Pretty sure it's glitched, and the only reason why is due to the limitations of the idtech engine As you may well be already aware, Doom is more like 2.5D rather than proper 3D; it's code is read as though it was operating in a 2D space, therefore things like secrets getting stuck in walls does happen occasionally.
OR a bad design, honestly ... thru out the entire game there is nothing that leads to this , and nothing notes it .... I don't understand the praise ( to the devs , it was literally hidden with ZERO clues. Hence NO ONE was suppose to find it, and they made it to piss people off...) ( to the speed runners and completionist, hats off, praise understood and warranted.... this must have been like finding a grain of white sand on a world beach of tan sand ...) If something is hidden, and has *ZERO* reference to it, other than "ya missed that last secret" ... and really it wasn't a secret, until cheats were used to *really* discover it ... "Imagine completing a *broken* game 24 years after it's release. That would be really satisfying" .....
@@felipeaglo8699 Wdym? I love the song so I want to know what the Easter Egg is. Also @Christina Morrigan there have been Easter Eggs in video games since the Atari 2600 in the late 1970s.
@@terrapin-yob Leave her alone. How could she possibly know devs put easter eggs in games before the 90s? It's not like she has some... Vast database of knowledge directly in front of her right beneath her finger tips or something .....Wait
"24 Years later the final secret has been triggered" There, I fixed it for you. The secret had been known for long years, together with the exact cause why it doesn't trigger (faulty map design, causes the secret triggering sector to be normally inaccessible). It only wasn't known how to trigger it legit.
*Secret Explained* A secret teleporter is marked as a discoverable "secret", but when you touch it, you never enter the sector. So you would never get inside the teleporter sector to trigger the secret. The only way to trigger this secret is to be pushed by an enemy into it!
Only for that? He was the first person to complete TNT on Nightmare in one run, and also to do a sub 20 run on UV in Doom 2. AND also for discovering and alternative and faster way to complete this map in an any% run, and many others merits.
Why do you feel the need to promote your channel on every popular gaming video? Every popular video that hits the news sites you post some beyond-super generic comment like this.
The old runs are COMPLETELY valid. No reason to shit down people's throats for not knowing this bullshit. Everyone thought it was a shitty glitch anyway.
I've noticed the framerate is very smooth. Which port is it he's playing? Technically he also ought to play it on 486DX. This is the only way to be 100% sure the engine behaves as it meant to be. INDUSTRIAL ZONE is the best.
Didn't thought a little push by a Pain Elemental would be enough to get on the lower floor and score this secret. It's still amazing how new things like this are found, Doom 2 is now 100% completed!
I don't believe he did. It's impressive and shows it's doable but this doesn't just magically make the secret in this map "not bugged". It just means there's a *p a i n f u l* (pardon my pun) workaround. The rule on this map is still in place that you only need 90% secrets to UV-Max the map.
The practicalities come into play. Do you *really* want to run a full game where one secret is totally reliant on a stupid enemy that can brick your whole run because it wants to? This is quadruple for Nightmare 100% Secret runs
Can't make past records obsolete for both the fact that it'll just be wiping history for no good reason and because trying to score the secret would cost too much time, which is counter-productive for a speedrun.
it doesnt wipe history, just add a footnote "in it was found you can obtain a true 100% so any run that obtains it gets precedence over the old runs, only true 100% runs are to be considered legal from on" in fact it makes history more interesting because theres an special event attached to it. Fastest is fastest, the level will take longer, but the record will still be held by who he does it faster. Also note that the 90%+ categ is still 90%+, talking about 100% only.
To be completely honest, it's rather "figured out" than "found". I'm pretty sure the existence of this secret and the required conditions were known for years now - it's just that someone figured out how to meet those conditions now.
"So to all the commenters in my Nightmare all secrets video about only getting 90% secrets on map 15, you were right, my bad. And to all those completionists who could never get the 100%, well, looks like you didn't try hard enough.. you should have just dragged an uncooperative pain elemental from his hideout to help you out." Well said! LUL XD
haha wow! its been so many years since i played Doom2 is a pain elemental the only monster that can push you backwards like that? or could it have been done with another monster? i can't remember if you get pushed back by shotgun blasts of the 2nd degree human soldiers or not grats to Zero Master :)
This secret is actually *underneath* the teleporter pad, and you can't reach it normally, but when a lost soul gets spawned on top of you, you get pushed downward, triggering the secret.
+Vid-szhite - ahhh, so its pushed down, not pushed backward thx u sir! i think that also answers my second budding question which was "could this possibly have been made near inaccessible by a designer accident?" to me it is sounding like Romero knew that lost souls push you down, because he made them that way, or because Carmack told him that's what they do when they spawn on a player's head and thus him putting a pain elemental way down there in that hallway was no accident... and he wondered if a player would ever figure it out before Mars was colonized woops... i think i left out a step... after placing the pain elemental, and the secret underneath the teleporter pad, Romero said "muahaha! muahahahaah! muahahahahahahahaha!" and then had a sip of his red wine :)
Eman Gamer I hate to tell you but nothing is going to change. It comes down to a case of practicality. Do you REALLY want to have an infinite number of runs ended because one monster literally refuses to cooperate? Not to mention the actual pixel-perfect precision reliant upon said monster? The video is already making rounds in the Doom speedrunning community and no one is changing any rules. No one is making this mandatory because of the sheer absurdity this is to pull off with any relative, realistic consistency. Period.
Well to be honest when you start getting really good at DooM it's quite possible that your casual play of the game could be misattributed as a speedrun by people who aren't familiar with the game, because, holy shit, does this game allow for some speed.
actually as the time passes by you get more and more... shall I say comfortable with the movement that even if you speedrun it feels like you're just playing normally
I watched very carefully and what I think what's happening in the engine and map is the following: - At 2:47, you see him opening the gate in the wall leading to the teleporter. - Then, starting from 2:49, he enters the area but is very anxious about stepping too far because that would teleport him away. But you can see him stepping backwards onto the platform, which the teleporter surface is aligned with. He does so while strafing against the wall at a ~45 degree angle in order to go as slow as possible in the direction to the teleporter, in order to get to the sweet spot. So the teleporter trigger is not triggered when stepping on the platform but only somewhat further on this platform. Now the sweet spot, being right above the secret trigger, is just 16 units wide if I may believe what I read on the internet. This means that locating Doomguy's centre at the sweet spot itself is quite difficult: too far and you'll be teleported away; too close to the door and the secret won't be registered. You must locate Doomguy right at the edge of the teleporter platform. - Then at 3:06, a lost soul is spawned at the player location which forces him through the platform under which the secret trigger is located, but this location is thus (slightly?) closer in the horizontal axis than the location of the teleporter trigger. I read somewhere that infact the secret trigger is infact adjacent to the raised platform. The player was already in the horizontal-axis sweet spot as explained above, but now the player also makes contact with the secret trigger by being in the vertical-axis sweet spot, thus the secret is tagged / revealed. If you watch carefully and follow a vertical line from the bricked textured wall in front of him, you can see that he is NOT forced backwards. So he stays in the same horizontal position, and only gets pushed downwards. Please correct me if this is wrong. I want to know how it works. I believe that John Romero designed it this way. That man is a living legend. Congratulations Zero Master! EDIT: in the meantime I tried this myself. I was wondering why the Pain Elemental was not attacking you in the narrow passage where he is initially hidden. Seems that no Lost Souls are spawned when there is no place for them, and can't spawn in the lowest section of this passage either. According to DOOM wiki a Pain Elemental only spawns Lost Souls when the player is in its line of sight, which makes it logical that Zero Master is hiding behind all corners in this section. This way no Lost Souls are spawned, but I also noticed during my test that the Lost Souls may attack their parent which is also unwanted behavior as the Pain Elemental is the only chance of getting to the secret. Then as a last remark, it is crucial that the Pain Elemental comes from the right because for as long as you're behind the corner of the secret area, the Pain Elemental won't spawn any Lost Souls because you are not in its line of sight. So it's lot to keep in mind: kill all other enemies first so they don't attack the Pain Elemental, make sure it doesn't spawn Lost Souls, stay out of its line of sight, and lure him in such a way that he comes from the top of the stairs towards the secret area. I don't know how much luck is actually involved. I believe that monsters will always come after you, so only the part from 2:25 to 3:05 is unknown how much randomness in path decision making is involved here. The stuff before 2:25 seems pretty fixed.
The secret is about to get the 100% complete in the level, aparently is impossible get the 100% without get that secret, where you need get pushed by an enemy.
I love how you're just pushing it along the corridor and it keeps trying to spit a lost soul but getting jammed up. You're like a nightclub bouncer with a drunk dude trying to punch you.
That is what I call map design... jesus I've been playing Doom now for over 15 years and I cannot believe one of the secrets involves being pushed in by an enemy... bloody hell hats off to you!
Exactly, having a bug and then naming it intentional ONCE people find a way to trigger it doesn't make it a secret, is a lazy excuse to not admit he made a mistake
There are plenty instances of what started off as a glitch being turned into a functional and sometimes iconic feature of a game. I understand what you're saying but in this instance I believe that is the case since Romero knew about this years ago when the game came out. None the less, this still is a great game.
Knows each enemy and where Knows each secret and when. Knows the weapons and why. Dude just knows.. I'm astounded. Practice leads to perfection. Rock on Zero Master.
Could you please explain how a linedef skip works and what it is? It's a special type of running i guess?And why it doesn't work on idustrial zone teleport,because of the stairs or teleport setup?
lmao @ the people defending old 100% speedruns because the secret "is not convenient" So essentially you're all just saying that 99% should be considered 100% because you dont want to add a minute to a run.
Because it is still a bug, nonetheless there are now two categories for this map (and even whole game) Classic 100% without this and the very precised secret on Map 27, and true 100% that obviously takes more time because of both secrets.
Yeah, sure, whatever you say dude, even if Romero nor any of the developer haven't really say this is how it was intended. And I don't want to have this kind of conversation again, all I have to say is that social media loves to exagerate everything and you are one of the many people who believe whatever a web page says.
@@davidchez513 shouldnt matter if it was intended or not, if it is possible it should count for the 100% or are you saying that the speedrunners cant use wallrunning and out of bounds clipping because it wasnt intended by the developers?
Awesome find, after so many years. With props from the man himself and the first true 100%, you deserve all the praise and envy you recieve. Godspeed, sir.
"Secret explained: A secret teleporter is marked as a discoverable "secret", but when you touch it, you never enter the sector. So you would never get inside the teleporter sector to trigger the secret. The only way to trigger this secret is to be pushed by an enemy into it!" by: John Romero.
I have found a new game breaking glitch in e1m8. 1, set game to nightmare mode. Not needed but makes it better. 2, kill as FEW pinkies as possible and allow them to filter into the hallway and quickly kill the two barons! 3, right when the star shape comrs down QUICKLY run outside to either the left or right of the pinkies. 4, theres a good chance at least 1 pinkie will be lowered outside. 5, activate the stairs and trick the pinkie onto the final teleporter! You have now soft broke DooM. I actually found this out by playing doom on nightmare mode and saw a respawned pinkie fall outside and suddenly thought 'gee, wonder what would happen to him if HE goes in there?' All it does is deactivate the teleporter and thus sealing you on the moon... Forever!!!!!! Can anyone make a vid of this?
Wtf! I remember my friends and I struggling so many hours and never getting this. I had no idea all these years later that it STILL hadn't been done until now. Congrats, man!
“Art for art's sake is an empty phrase. Art for the sake of truth, art for the sake of the good and the beautiful, that is the faith I am searching for.” - George Sand
@@DanielRyanScott What an ignorant statement, art( especially literature ) has been used to influence intellectual movements varying from Narodnaya Volya to the Nazis , to persuade the masses, to provoke thought etc etc
First of all I like to say thank you for posting this video. You have done well for the DOOM classic community. You have know idea how much this means to me. I used to play DOOM II religiously back in high school (2013 -2017). I swear I know about the secret exit [8:20] and have open it once, but I never know the explanation so I just noclip my way there [8:20} due to my frustration. I never looked at any forums or walkthrough so I am not aware this was a mystery .
The score screen at the end of the level informs you of the percentage of secrets collected on a level, without this one it shows 90 percent so yeah he and the whole community knew it was in the level just not where or how to trigger it
We did know it was there, it's easily accessed, it's just that the secret counter at the end of the level wouldn't count it if you accessed it normally.
The way it sounded when Romero shared it, was that this was intentionally like this all along, just waiting for discovery - I thought it was a bug? Like map 27 (which is explained in the description)
@@Tucher97 The WADs in BFG edition are censored and the port isn't too good (earrape chainsaw sound, ear-grating pitch randomizer, and the censorship: medikits and Wolfenstein levels)
My dad spent days, even weeks, looking for this secret back in the 90s. He had this goal of getting 100% in the whole game. This level pissed him off more than anything else in the game. Several hours of frustrated backtracking and exploring went into this. Guess I'll show this to him now, though I doubt he remembers.
I can't even fucking imagine how the Zero Master felt once he discovered this!!! Ur the DOOM GUY DUDE! UR THE LEGEND....U BREATHE AND LIVE UR LIFE IN MARS!
Wow. I never thought I'd see it...not the secret, but zero master posting again! Lol seriously though that secret find/exploit is brilliant and satiates my OCD.
Cheers once again to @zeromaster . You continually amaze and inspire me, man. Keep up the awesome work and fuckin DOOM on, brother!! (also, stoked as shit that jRomero remarked on this feat. Keep setting the bar, bro, you're the best.)
Never played any Dooms . It looks like he finds multiple secrets ...... which one was the "lost" secret? The full white colors or that split second change right before he's finished? Is it literally just a collectable named "secret", so this was him finding the "lost" collectable?
Man these early Doom games were so ahead of there time. Truly Legendary! Also original Wolfenstein was exceptional as well. I would play those games non stop on my family room computer trying to hide it from my parents. Turned out that my dad loved it too and had no problem with me playing it. Haha THE MEMORIES!!
Do you know if this will have any impact on whether or not other "uv-max" demos of this map will continue to be considered valid? I would also like to know where this trick originated; Did you find it yourself?
My best guess is that it won't have any impact unless there's a rule change specifically to this map that invalidates the current rule that only 90% secrets is required.
@@AltimaMantoid, I'm beginning to think you may have a record that you don't want to lose or either your just being helpful and very knowledgeable about the doom speedrunning community
SeedeeStevie743 Nah, I don't have anything on this map so it wouldn't effect me here. Ikve heard this trick can also be used for Map26 of Plutonia in theory but haven't seen footage (which this WOULD effect me as I have the -fast record for that map). I'm mostly speaking from a place of age and experience. Unless something changes, there are no intentions of changing the 90% minimum requirement but they have instead (jokingly but not sure) discussed a "trUV-Max" category. If there was any rule change involving secrets and this map, it would effect UV-Max, NM100S, UV-fast, UV-respawn, and Tyson categories.
@@AltimaMantoid,well first of all "i knew it!!" (Kinda) and yeah, i wouldn't expect them to out right take away the achievements everyone has made on those runs, i like the idea of have a alt true 100% run though, its exciting seeing people compete for the top spot
![Doom II: Hell on Earth - Nightmare! in 12:44 [TAS]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8QHH6ODnRTA/mqdefault.jpg)
The most annoying enemy in Doom 2, whose job is to spit out the most annoying enemy in Doom 1, reveals the most annoyingly kept secret in this game. Add another layer of annoying, and you could spawn a second John Romero.
it's annoying that this was only found out 20+ years later
I would like to get my John Romero in the mail, please
@@Mate_Antal_Zoltan Annoyingly, you're not going to get one.
@@mjc0961 sad
@@mjc0961 that is annoying
I agree, fuck Lost Souls, those enemies are supposed to be weak annoying fodder (Basically Medusa Heads but for Doom) then why the fuck are they bullet sponges? it's been 25 years since the release of Ultimate Doom and I still can't get over that design choice xd
"this secret shouldn't take them that long to figure out"
[Almost a quarter of a century later]
Ahahaha def 80's people mindset 😂
I read the [almost a quarter of a century later] in a French accent.
@Rodrigo yes.
Doom ftw:)
I am your 1000th like. I basically made you what you are. You are welcome.
“100 % Speed runners hate him for finding out this one little secret....”
Yea, I am wondering if this will be incorporated into the 100% category, or will it be moved to a new 100%, with the old runs being labeled differently. Worse things have happened in other games, so we'll see.
@Daniel Smith fuck you HAHAHAHA, You made my day.
@@someone-ji2zb Nah, 100% is 100%. The previous records are forfeit. They were never valid when you think about it.
@@Krystalmyth they were valid because it was believed the final secret was a glitch.
As far as I know, the map will not require 100% secrets for the traditional UV-max category because it is a glitch and it makes the map quite unfun in a way. The original rules in compet~n rules stated that only certain % of the secrets is necessary in this map, but of course rules can change. It would be quite unfair to disqualify 25 years worth of speedrunning because players werent aware of how to trigger one bugged 'secret revealed' trigger, even though the secret itself was known. Anyways, only time will tell in which direction it evolves.
To me the biggest surprise is that not a single id employee spoiled this for 24 years.
You'd think Ramero would've hinted at it or something
It was probably just a developer oversight that either nobody cared to fix or nobody noticed was wrong
@@radiocaster2k no romero came out and stated what we thought was a glitch was the correct method
+Jonah Weiss maybe it was just his method to not look like a dumbass that oversight something?
100% loyalty
0:20 the shotgun is the best long-range sniper rifle of any game ever
Fun Fact: That's how they work in real life. Classic Doom is one of the few games in history to actually have a realistic shotgun.
In video games, they are extremely commonly portrayed as close ranged weapons with high spread.
Except... This just isn't the case.
There is a part of a shotgun called a "Choke" that tightens the spread and allows for high accuracy.
Shotguns were designed for long range.
@@ZoofyZoof There is a modern game released 4 years ago called Rising Storm 2 Vietnam who also have a realistic shotguns
@@yourewallsareveryconvenien8292 who cares lol..don't utter about a single non doom game here lmao
@@PriyanshuSinhasc Oh yeah, i will utter about every games i want to tell so let me list some.
Escape From Tarkov
Insurgency Sandstorm
Squad
Post scriptum
Hell let loose
@@PriyanshuSinhasc to not mention other games here would be to contribute nothing to the thread
1:55 - preparation for trick
3:05 - secret button pressed
Thank you MVP
Thank you!! As a person who doesn't follow these types of speedruns normally, this looked like normal gameplay to me.
Thanks!
Спасибо!
Thank you!
John Romero just shared this video on Instagram and Twitter.
And facebook 🙂
is it wrong if i get a boner by reading this?
Ramiro Figueiredo
I unzipped
Ramiro Figueiredo, it's wrong if you don't.
Who's that?
*Pain Elemental screws up 24 year old Doom secret with an accidental nudge*
Demons hate him!
Quad X way to go Pain Elemental.
You had two jobs - spawn lost souls and keep the secret a secret.
And no Pain Elemental has been maltreated during the making of this video...
Pain Elemental: Oh my god it's been like a quarter century dude, like seriously you haven't seen it? **Nudges DoomGuy** Here! It's right here ffs!
nicest pain elemental ever
sands
I always love the idea of enemies being sick of the players’ shit.
@@MisterJohnDoe me too
Dios mío, ha sido como un cuarto de siglo, amigo, ¿en serio no lo has visto? jajajajajajaja
1:01
Dude gets hit by the fireball then turns around like "what the hell, bro?"
I'm literally one year late but I love that so much.
@@febbledebble Guy 1:*fireball*
Guy 2: Ah fuck,i can't believe you done this
*what are you doing step-bro?*
@@pexrox2248 OH GOD OH PLEASE NO
That's so ridiculous. I had the same situation in a game called Nuclear Throne. Kind of a bullet hell, roquelike. While I was fighting with a horde of enemies, somewhere in the corner there were two mobs that happen to have a friendly fire, just standing there, doing nothing, until one of them shoot another and he turned and was like "why? :(" I had to pause the game from laughing so hard, it was so unexpected.
For those that do not know what is happening here, the Pain Elemental is triggering that secret by the teleporter. Normally, the secret is too thin to trigger because you would normally teleport before the secret would trigger so 100% secrets were considered impossible. This also happened on another map (I can’t remember what specific map) but the Pain Elemental can spawn a Lost Soul inside the player and allow you to clip through the floor for a bit and trigger the broken secret.
I think its Map 27
Is this intentional or is it a glitched secret?
@@ihswap Pretty sure it's glitched, and the only reason why is due to the limitations of the idtech engine
As you may well be already aware, Doom is more like 2.5D rather than proper 3D; it's code is read as though it was operating in a 2D space, therefore things like secrets getting stuck in walls does happen occasionally.
@@ihswap Glitched
What exactly is the secret, though. I got lost
Imagine completing a game 24 years after it’s release. That would be really satisfying
“To win the game you must kill me, John Romero”
Any volunteers?
So basically Duke Nukem
@@whereskentuckybruce8245 I'm surprised that guy is still around given the playerbase includes school shooters like Dylan and Klebold.
OR a bad design, honestly ... thru out the entire game there is nothing that leads to this , and nothing notes it ....
I don't understand the praise ( to the devs , it was literally hidden with ZERO clues. Hence NO ONE was suppose to find it, and they made it to piss people off...) ( to the speed runners and completionist, hats off, praise understood and warranted.... this must have been like finding a grain of white sand on a world beach of tan sand ...)
If something is hidden, and has *ZERO* reference to it, other than "ya missed that last secret" ... and really it wasn't a secret, until cheats were used to *really* discover it ...
"Imagine completing a *broken* game 24 years after it's release. That would be really satisfying" .....
Who would crack the last secret of doom?
1. A community of thousands of players that has been working on it for two decades or...
2. One pushed boi
Or just open the map in an editor and look for the trigger, then figure out how to trigger it.
..we did.
we tried.
I mean jeze its not like we think getting crouched by a P.E. was the actual trick to getting to the trigger line.
This one boi.... is significant parth of community...
There was no secret, just a bug. I was not missing anything when using the teleports in maps 15 and 27 without the secret being triggered.
Do you believe him?
Imagine all the Easter eggs that have never been found
What?
Bruh, it was made in the 90s. What Easter Eggs?
@@christinamorrigan8573 the OST is one of them hahaha
@@felipeaglo8699 Wdym? I love the song so I want to know what the Easter Egg is. Also @Christina Morrigan there have been Easter Eggs in video games since the Atari 2600 in the late 1970s.
@@terrapin-yob Leave her alone. How could she possibly know devs put easter eggs in games before the 90s? It's not like she has some... Vast database of knowledge directly in front of her right beneath her finger tips or something
.....Wait
24 Years later the final secret has been revealed, John Romero can finally rest in pieces
I think you're thinking of George Romero... John's still alive.
the babutheocelot85 your a dumbass
@@Josh-dm8uw You're*
"24 Years later the final secret has been triggered"
There, I fixed it for you.
The secret had been known for long years, together with the exact cause why it doesn't trigger (faulty map design, causes the secret triggering sector to be normally inaccessible).
It only wasn't known how to trigger it legit.
@@theyearwas1473 you're*
This lad didn't just leave his mark as a speedrunner, he left his mark as a fucking legend for that secret
*Secret Explained* A secret teleporter is marked as a discoverable "secret", but when you touch it, you never enter the sector. So you would never get inside the teleporter sector to trigger the secret. The only way to trigger this secret is to be pushed by an enemy into it!
Only for that? He was the first person to complete TNT on Nightmare in one run, and also to do a sub 20 run on UV in Doom 2. AND also for discovering and alternative and faster way to complete this map in an any% run, and many others merits.
Also done a sub 20 Plutonia run.
Ibf 4000m cooper results in army/college... :P
I was the 666th like for this comment!
Amazing that after all these years there is still things to be found!
then you might also like this: ruclips.net/video/aXtV82Nv0ms/видео.html
U mean to find
@@bro89174 yeah sorry, english is not my main language ^^
@@bro89174 Ew a grammar nazi
there are still settlements to found
I've been trying to figure this out for 20+ years...
ProtoMario Fck!
GG
As have I. All these years later i STILL drive myself batty playing doom and doom 2. Oh and...ALL HAIL PROTOMARIO!!*bows*
At this point you're just like Justin Y.
Why do you feel the need to promote your channel on every popular gaming video? Every popular video that hits the news sites you post some beyond-super generic comment like this.
The end of an era.
The beggining of a new one.
@Fucksticks And hopefully where we don't reply to a 9 month old comment. Genius
@@reverse1371 Better late than never.
@@KnjazNazrath Better early than never.
@@reverse1371 better early than late but better late than never
Lol
The speedrunning community trying to defend the old runs in the comments section has actually caused me to have a stroke
Speed running is poison anyway. Screw them. Games are supposed to be fun.
Big Blue Frontend
No one says you have to speed run. It is setting a challenge for yourself like trying not to die once in Dark Souls or something.
The old runs are COMPLETELY valid. No reason to shit down people's throats for not knowing this bullshit. Everyone thought it was a shitty glitch anyway.
@@panthekirb7561 They are completely valid, as ANY% speedruns anyway, as a 100% speedrun however.............
@@Primight Bullshit.
So are you technically the first vanilla Doom 2 100% runner?
Well I doubt anyone's done this before by accident, and the secret on map 27 isn't easy to get either :)
how possible is it to get the third secret in e4m7 using the cyberdemon rocket?
Best skill playing vanilla Doom I've ever seen.
What exactly happens on 2:54? PE triggers some wall opened?
no MSDOS = no vanilla
I've noticed the framerate is very smooth. Which port is it he's playing?
Technically he also ought to play it on 486DX. This is the only way to be 100% sure the engine behaves as it meant to be.
INDUSTRIAL ZONE is the best.
Didn't thought a little push by a Pain Elemental would be enough to get on the lower floor and score this secret. It's still amazing how new things like this are found, Doom 2 is now 100% completed!
Wow I'm watching a video of a guy discovering the last secret of a game that took two decades to discover. What a time to be alive.
THE SUN IS BURNING WHITE PEOPLE OFF THE PLANET LOL
And I thought my name was extremely goofy
I doubt it took two decades, not everyone would realize that it's hard to find nor think to announce finding it.
The sun isn't killing us, cultural Marxism is.
@@enocherone .....
thats a rad Vibes playlist
I love how your description literally explains every question I had. All youTube videos should be so thorough. Congrats!
I'm just happy someone actually reads it, thanks!
hot to trigger speedrunners who want the title of "100%" and have to work again for it
Including him
Nah that shit is retarded.
@@panthekirb7561 but still correct it doesnt matter if they worked hard if this shit isn't included they speedrun isn't 100%run making it not valid
@@panthekirb7561 mad
@@panthekirb7561 rude
Did you just make all 100% speedruns of Doom obsolete??
I don't believe he did. It's impressive and shows it's doable but this doesn't just magically make the secret in this map "not bugged". It just means there's a *p a i n f u l* (pardon my pun) workaround. The rule on this map is still in place that you only need 90% secrets to UV-Max the map.
The practicalities come into play. Do you *really* want to run a full game where one secret is totally reliant on a stupid enemy that can brick your whole run because it wants to? This is quadruple for Nightmare 100% Secret runs
yes, all of them are 99.999% now, or any%
Can't make past records obsolete for both the fact that it'll just be wiping history for no good reason and because trying to score the secret would cost too much time, which is counter-productive for a speedrun.
it doesnt wipe history, just add a footnote "in it was found you can obtain a true 100% so any run that obtains it gets precedence over the old runs, only true 100% runs are to be considered legal from on" in fact it makes history more interesting because theres an special event attached to it. Fastest is fastest, the level will take longer, but the record will still be held by who he does it faster. Also note that the 90%+ categ is still 90%+, talking about 100% only.
it's nice to see the game still has fans, i simply love this community
There will always be DOOM.
Well... DOOM is eternal :)
Most of these fans are well past their 30s and some are even in their 40s. This game just doesn't and will never die.
Best Secret in Gaming History. Found 23 Years after Release.
Along with the hidden EJB Menu in the klassic mortal kombat games, this is for sure up there.
Like the coin in Tiny Huge land in SM64
To be completely honest, it's rather "figured out" than "found".
I'm pretty sure the existence of this secret and the required conditions were known for years now - it's just that someone figured out how to meet those conditions now.
How do you know that nobody ever discovery it before?
@Mister Scoops it's not the chamber itself that was undiscovered. It was how to make it factor into the number of secrets found.
"So to all the commenters in my Nightmare all secrets video about only getting 90% secrets on map 15, you were right, my bad. And to all those completionists who could never get the 100%, well, looks like you didn't try hard enough.. you should have just dragged an uncooperative pain elemental from his hideout to help you out." Well said! LUL XD
@@gayahhbihh Well zeromaster still solved it. no one else did
2:34 - 3:06 Doomguy making the perfect expressions for this sequence XD
He's like "...where's that fam?"
Those are the only expressions he has. What's your point?
@@febbledebble If you don't get it, you don't get it.
Fned Tolfsen Oh I get it, it's just not funny.
@@febbledebble So?
You absolute madman! My helmet's off to you sir.
Don't take your helmet! This atmosphere is way too thin!
rats off to you
Never take your helmet off! That thing can save your life!!!
Gordon Freeman still wishes he had a helmet... in his own Mind.
Nice avatar, subscribed to you as soon as I saw it. 👍
Life, uh, finds a way.
So weird, just watch a video with Jeff in it
To make me vomit!
Missing like 2 more uh's there bud
Your foster parents are dead
Death finds a way, Always.
So what you have to do is stand under the door and then wait until the Pain Elemental pushes you into the secret is that correct
The Pain Elemental spawns a lost soul on top of you pushing you down slightly, triggering the secret.
haha wow! its been so many years since i played Doom2
is a pain elemental the only monster that can push you backwards like that?
or could it have been done with another monster?
i can't remember if you get pushed back by shotgun blasts of the 2nd degree human soldiers or not
grats to Zero Master :)
This secret is actually *underneath* the teleporter pad, and you can't reach it normally, but when a lost soul gets spawned on top of you, you get pushed downward, triggering the secret.
+Vid-szhite - ahhh, so its pushed down, not pushed backward
thx u sir!
i think that also answers my second budding question which was "could this possibly have been made near inaccessible by a designer accident?"
to me it is sounding like Romero knew that lost souls push you down, because he made them that way, or because Carmack told him that's what they do when they spawn on a player's head
and thus him putting a pain elemental way down there in that hallway was no accident... and he wondered if a player would ever figure it out before Mars was colonized
woops... i think i left out a step...
after placing the pain elemental, and the secret underneath the teleporter pad, Romero said "muahaha! muahahahaah! muahahahahahahahaha!" and then had a sip of his red wine :)
Err this sounds more like a bug
I just love how he shoves and pushes Pain Elemental and he looks so frustrated! No respect at all.
Created: 1994
Discovered: 2018
Wow, nice find.
Now all those runs are invalidated, good job!
I don't believe that this will be the case.
oh hi altima
Eman Gamer I hate to tell you but nothing is going to change. It comes down to a case of practicality. Do you REALLY want to have an infinite number of runs ended because one monster literally refuses to cooperate? Not to mention the actual pixel-perfect precision reliant upon said monster? The video is already making rounds in the Doom speedrunning community and no one is changing any rules. No one is making this mandatory because of the sheer absurdity this is to pull off with any relative, realistic consistency. Period.
Supercharged Heyo!
it need to change
zero master: casually playing doom
people that aren't familiar with doom: is this a speedrun?
Huh?
Well to be honest when you start getting really good at DooM it's quite possible that your casual play of the game could be misattributed as a speedrun by people who aren't familiar with the game, because, holy shit, does this game allow for some speed.
actually as the time passes by you get more and more... shall I say comfortable with the movement that even if you speedrun it feels like you're just playing normally
>tfw too oldschool
He's moving really fast, knows where to go and shoots like he's prescient, it sorta looks like a speedrun
I watched very carefully and what I think what's happening in the engine and map is the following:
- At 2:47, you see him opening the gate in the wall leading to the teleporter.
- Then, starting from 2:49, he enters the area but is very anxious about stepping too far because that would teleport him away. But you can see him stepping backwards onto the platform, which the teleporter surface is aligned with. He does so while strafing against the wall at a ~45 degree angle in order to go as slow as possible in the direction to the teleporter, in order to get to the sweet spot. So the teleporter trigger is not triggered when stepping on the platform but only somewhat further on this platform. Now the sweet spot, being right above the secret trigger, is just 16 units wide if I may believe what I read on the internet. This means that locating Doomguy's centre at the sweet spot itself is quite difficult: too far and you'll be teleported away; too close to the door and the secret won't be registered. You must locate Doomguy right at the edge of the teleporter platform.
- Then at 3:06, a lost soul is spawned at the player location which forces him through the platform under which the secret trigger is located, but this location is thus (slightly?) closer in the horizontal axis than the location of the teleporter trigger. I read somewhere that infact the secret trigger is infact adjacent to the raised platform. The player was already in the horizontal-axis sweet spot as explained above, but now the player also makes contact with the secret trigger by being in the vertical-axis sweet spot, thus the secret is tagged / revealed. If you watch carefully and follow a vertical line from the bricked textured wall in front of him, you can see that he is NOT forced backwards. So he stays in the same horizontal position, and only gets pushed downwards.
Please correct me if this is wrong. I want to know how it works.
I believe that John Romero designed it this way. That man is a living legend. Congratulations Zero Master!
EDIT: in the meantime I tried this myself. I was wondering why the Pain Elemental was not attacking you in the narrow passage where he is initially hidden. Seems that no Lost Souls are spawned when there is no place for them, and can't spawn in the lowest section of this passage either. According to DOOM wiki a Pain Elemental only spawns Lost Souls when the player is in its line of sight, which makes it logical that Zero Master is hiding behind all corners in this section. This way no Lost Souls are spawned, but I also noticed during my test that the Lost Souls may attack their parent which is also unwanted behavior as the Pain Elemental is the only chance of getting to the secret. Then as a last remark, it is crucial that the Pain Elemental comes from the right because for as long as you're behind the corner of the secret area, the Pain Elemental won't spawn any Lost Souls because you are not in its line of sight.
So it's lot to keep in mind: kill all other enemies first so they don't attack the Pain Elemental, make sure it doesn't spawn Lost Souls, stay out of its line of sight, and lure him in such a way that he comes from the top of the stairs towards the secret area.
I don't know how much luck is actually involved. I believe that monsters will always come after you, so only the part from 2:25 to 3:05 is unknown how much randomness in path decision making is involved here. The stuff before 2:25 seems pretty fixed.
Noice comment
Ye
I read it all. Kill me lol
@@dantedeloden You finally read what amounts to a page of text. I'm proud of you.
Go to sleep school is tomorrow for you
This looks so cool. (If only I knew what was actually going on..)
it's a secret shhh
I love Doom, but this made me nauseous.
The secret is about to get the 100% complete in the level, aparently is impossible get the 100% without get that secret, where you need get pushed by an enemy.
same lol
Read the description
I love how you're just pushing it along the corridor and it keeps trying to spit a lost soul but getting jammed up. You're like a nightclub bouncer with a drunk dude trying to punch you.
That is what I call map design... jesus I've been playing Doom now for over 15 years and I cannot believe one of the secrets involves being pushed in by an enemy... bloody hell hats off to you!
it was obviously not intended, it's a bug but this lad found a work around
No, it was a glitch that Romero then made a secret out of intentionally.
Calling it a secret doesn't make it any less a glitch X)
Exactly, having a bug and then naming it intentional ONCE people find a way to trigger it doesn't make it a secret, is a lazy excuse to not admit he made a mistake
There are plenty instances of what started off as a glitch being turned into a functional and sometimes iconic feature of a game. I understand what you're saying but in this instance I believe that is the case since Romero knew about this years ago when the game came out. None the less, this still is a great game.
And with a single reveal, all 100% speed runs of Doom 2 come crashing down.
Demon sees a green blur flash by - "WTF WAS THAT"
GREEN BLUR SPEEDS BY! DOOMGUY THE HUMAN! TOO FAST FOR THE NAKED EYE! DOOMGUY THE HUMAN!
Then it realizes that its torso is suddenly missing and dies.
the only being faster than keemstar is the doom guy
""WTF WAS THAT""
>hey, is that a doom tro... *
I saw this on the news lmao
Ben Z na
Really?
Knows each enemy and where
Knows each secret and when.
Knows the weapons and why.
Dude just knows.. I'm astounded.
Practice leads to perfection. Rock on Zero Master.
kewl
Skooma
Almost as good as discovering Kitty space mission for the first time
iiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
woah hi
HELLO
Everyone: Talking about the secret
Me: Dang those frames are good for a 20 year old game
This isnt how it originally ran. The original runs at 35 fps
@@evdestroy5304 hardcoded into the game logic too, iirc
Wait, there's also a similar secret in Map27. Can you do the same trick there as well?
I already grab that one in nightmare all secrets, it's a linedef skip so it's different: ruclips.net/video/yIxEEgEuhT4/видео.htmlm10s
Could you please explain how a linedef skip works and what it is? It's a special type of running i guess?And why it doesn't work on idustrial zone teleport,because of the stairs or teleport setup?
lmao @ the people defending old 100% speedruns because the secret "is not convenient"
So essentially you're all just saying that 99% should be considered 100% because you dont want to add a minute to a run.
Because it is still a bug, nonetheless there are now two categories for this map (and even whole game)
Classic 100% without this and the very precised secret on Map 27, and true 100% that obviously takes more time because of both secrets.
JD 5 13 it was the way it was intended by the developers
Yeah, sure, whatever you say dude, even if Romero nor any of the developer haven't really say this is how it was intended.
And I don't want to have this kind of conversation again, all I have to say is that social media loves to exagerate everything and you are one of the many people who believe whatever a web page says.
@@rasta7655 No it wasn't
@@davidchez513 shouldnt matter if it was intended or not, if it is possible it should count for the 100% or are you saying that the speedrunners cant use wallrunning and out of bounds clipping because it wasnt intended by the developers?
masterpiece, not only the gameplay itself was ahead of its time, but the actual "3d" engine was remarkable and cleverly built
Awesome find, after so many years. With props from the man himself and the first true 100%, you deserve all the praise and envy you recieve. Godspeed, sir.
"Secret explained: A secret teleporter is marked as a discoverable "secret", but when you touch it, you never enter the sector. So you would never get inside the teleporter sector to trigger the secret. The only way to trigger this secret is to be pushed by an enemy into it!" by: John Romero.
I have found a new game breaking glitch in e1m8.
1, set game to nightmare mode. Not needed but makes it better.
2, kill as FEW pinkies as possible and allow them to filter into the hallway and quickly kill the two barons!
3, right when the star shape comrs down QUICKLY run outside to either the left or right of the pinkies.
4, theres a good chance at least 1 pinkie will be lowered outside.
5, activate the stairs and trick the pinkie onto the final teleporter!
You have now soft broke DooM.
I actually found this out by playing doom on nightmare mode and saw a respawned pinkie fall outside and suddenly thought 'gee, wonder what would happen to him if HE goes in there?'
All it does is deactivate the teleporter and thus sealing you on the moon...
Forever!!!!!!
Can anyone make a vid of this?
Wow that's kinda cool
Wtf! I remember my friends and I struggling so many hours and never getting this. I had no idea all these years later that it STILL hadn't been done until now. Congrats, man!
Dk 64 coin and now this?! Wonder what else is out there...
3:00 secret revealed after 24 years
What is?
Amazing find! Doom will always have a special place in my heart!! This game made me want to become a game developer and programmer!
“Art for art's sake is an empty phrase. Art for the sake of truth, art for the sake of the good and the beautiful, that is the faith I am searching for.”
- George Sand
@@DanielRyanScott
You sound like a lot of fun
@@DanielRyanScott What an ignorant statement, art( especially literature ) has been used to influence intellectual movements varying from Narodnaya Volya to the Nazis , to persuade the masses, to provoke thought etc etc
@@DanielRyanScott videogames are art, if it wasn't for art you wouldn't be nutting on guns in fps games :)
First of all I like to say thank you for posting this video. You have done well for the DOOM classic community. You have know idea how much this means to me. I used to play DOOM II religiously back in high school (2013 -2017). I swear I know about the secret exit [8:20] and have open it once, but I never know the explanation so I just noclip my way there [8:20} due to my frustration. I never looked at any forums or walkthrough so I am not aware this was a mystery .
amazing that people are still finding out new things about this game even today!
This is history in the making !
Fantastic work! I always thought someday somebody would figure out how to get that last secret!
U say that as if you new it was thetr
The score screen at the end of the level informs you of the percentage of secrets collected on a level, without this one it shows 90 percent so yeah he and the whole community knew it was in the level just not where or how to trigger it
We did know it was there, it's easily accessed, it's just that the secret counter at the end of the level wouldn't count it if you accessed it normally.
Everybody who found the teleport found the secret. It is the mistake of the programmers that it just was not counted.
I have been playing this game for 25 years, and just noticed that pain elemental has cyberdemon's horns.
Congrats ZeroMaster! I enjoy your runs a lot and your channel inspires me to make my own runs
The Pain Elemental was like "my job is finally done, I must go now."
24 years, and still had undiscovered secrets....amazing
3:00 where you are here for.
Woaw good job to find that ! You are the true player of doom II !
So...usually I just play to dead simple and get bored but you just made me want to play to the end. Thanks!
24 years and I still get motion sickens. GJ Sir. Kudos!
круто!
очень круто ) , сколько часов я бродил по DM15, но этой фишки не знал ...
не ожидал увидеть вас, ребят, здесь :)
@The Final Chapter look out everyone, we’ve got a big funny guy over here!
Vodka
@@tinais4362 Reb
Congrats mate, you're in the record books now.
Thank you dude
Finally we can say Doom 2 is finished to 100%
I think theres lore secrets out there
HOLY SHIT! That's one hell of an impressive run! Very well done. Flawless execution.
-Chris
The way it sounded when Romero shared it, was that this was intentionally like this all along, just waiting for discovery - I thought it was a bug? Like map 27 (which is explained in the description)
I only recently impulse bought doom 2 because its cheap.
Which secret outnof all of these was the super secret one
The one where he has the pain elemental nudge him somewhere to get to a secret 3:05
you should have bought Doom 3 BFG edition where it includes doom 1, 2 and 3 as 3 the flash lights are shoulder lamps where its atleast tolerable
@@Tucher97 The WADs in BFG edition are censored and the port isn't too good (earrape chainsaw sound, ear-grating pitch randomizer, and the censorship: medikits and Wolfenstein levels)
@@xyzzy-dv6te the censorship i do not mind, the chainsaw sound, yea i was greatful for Heretic's necrogauntlets
Summoning Salt : "Time to get back to work 🍵"
the mapper who did this map is plain genius, I couldn't believe how improved the levels where but the city's one where amazing
This particular map was by John Romero btw
The map was made by John Romero, the madlad behind the iconic E1M1 and the entire episode 1
Well.. damn. After 23 years, Romero can have his peace of mind.
My dad spent days, even weeks, looking for this secret back in the 90s. He had this goal of getting 100% in the whole game. This level pissed him off more than anything else in the game. Several hours of frustrated backtracking and exploring went into this. Guess I'll show this to him now, though I doubt he remembers.
I can't even fucking imagine how the Zero Master felt once he discovered this!!! Ur the DOOM GUY DUDE! UR THE LEGEND....U BREATHE AND LIVE UR LIFE IN MARS!
The second this was discovered John Romero's hair grew an inch.
Wow. I never thought I'd see it...not the secret, but zero master posting again! Lol seriously though that secret find/exploit is brilliant and satiates my OCD.
Damn, you're a badass at this game bro!
You've conquered one of the greatest obstacles in the game: Romero being an id-iot with placement.
As always, impressive, dude!
I take at least 20 minutes to full complete this map in Ultra Violence
Those 131 dislikes, are from salty runners that counldnt do it! xd
secret happens shortly after the 3:00 mark
Cheers once again to @zeromaster . You continually amaze and inspire me, man. Keep up the awesome work and fuckin DOOM on, brother!! (also, stoked as shit that jRomero remarked on this feat. Keep setting the bar, bro, you're the best.)
Wow, taking my hat off to you, sir! Impressive commitment!
Never played any Dooms . It looks like he finds multiple secrets ...... which one was the "lost" secret? The full white colors or that split second change right before he's finished? Is it literally just a collectable named "secret", so this was him finding the "lost" collectable?
It’s at 3:00
The pain elemental
(Brown demon)
Pushes him into the wall revealing the secret
Based and doompilled.
Man these early Doom games were so ahead of there time. Truly Legendary! Also original Wolfenstein was exceptional as well. I would play those games non stop on my family room computer trying to hide it from my parents. Turned out that my dad loved it too and had no problem with me playing it. Haha THE MEMORIES!!
you've had a good dad there.
i have yet to see this kind of level design since...
Ok, reading the video description cleared my confusion :D Nice job!
So does this mean every single doom 100% speedrun is now invalid? And we are about to see an influx of them?
Doom II*
Do you know if this will have any impact on whether or not other "uv-max" demos of this map will continue to be considered valid? I would also like to know where this trick originated; Did you find it yourself?
My best guess is that it won't have any impact unless there's a rule change specifically to this map that invalidates the current rule that only 90% secrets is required.
@@AltimaMantoid, I'm beginning to think you may have a record that you don't want to lose or either your just being helpful and very knowledgeable about the doom speedrunning community
SeedeeStevie743 Nah, I don't have anything on this map so it wouldn't effect me here. Ikve heard this trick can also be used for Map26 of Plutonia in theory but haven't seen footage (which this WOULD effect me as I have the -fast record for that map). I'm mostly speaking from a place of age and experience. Unless something changes, there are no intentions of changing the 90% minimum requirement but they have instead (jokingly but not sure) discussed a "trUV-Max" category. If there was any rule change involving secrets and this map, it would effect UV-Max, NM100S, UV-fast, UV-respawn, and Tyson categories.
@@AltimaMantoid,well first of all "i knew it!!" (Kinda) and yeah, i wouldn't expect them to out right take away the achievements everyone has made on those runs, i like the idea of have a alt true 100% run though, its exciting seeing people compete for the top spot
I guess it makes sense to keep the requirement at 90% as Doom UV-Max speed runs tend to have few or no glitches compared to other speed runs.
This level is deeper and more thought-out than most games.
This secret is older than me.
It took almost a quarter of a century for this mystery to be solved.
That's the dedication of the Doom community.