I mean they really didnt have a chose. Tbh if it wasnt for us tax payers we wouldnt even have GM. It is sad they are gone never to make another BA V8 maybe we should have given GM more in the bale out. 😒
It was the coolest division of GM...besides the Corvette and few select years of the Camaro, I couldn’t care less about Chevrolet let alone Olds, Buick and Cadillac
I was working at GM in the 70s and early 80s. A turbo Camaro was also planned for 82 but squashed at the last minute. They even had the parts books printed and sent to the dealers with drawings and part numbers. I wish I had one of those books now.
Thanks for posting this video. Growing up, my father was friends with the general manager of the local multi-line GM dealership here in Southern California. I was 12 years old when the '82 F-cars hit the dealers. Calvin showed my dad a white 1982 Turbo T/A parked in the body shop away from the rest of the new inventory. The story was that it was a test mule for an option that got cut before production. We took it for a test drive. It was quick. He said Mom would love it. Dad compared it to the 383 Charger and 390 Fairlane they had owned in the 60's. After that I had to sit quietly on the floor in a sales cubicle for a couple of hours as three men made a ton of calls to GM to get the car released for sale. In the end, it came down to the fact that the engine was never California emissions certified for sale since it was cut before full production. Not to be.
Jesse Pinkman amen man. Would have been amazing to see turbo trans am grow more. Most people have forgotten of them until recent years, glad these videos are surfacing now though.
RUclips Transdepot. They build Trans Am's out of Camaro's. And have the rights to the Pontiac and Trans Am name. (I think). It's as close as we can get for now.
@@flossietube2065 yep except they are just building hyped up camero's for 80000 and up you would be better off just buying a corvette or zl1 supercharged camero and still come out cheaper with more HP
@@sethlance8009 ,I think there more than just "hyped up Camaro's". And yeah, they are a bit pricey. But if you want a brand new Pontiac Trans Am, that's where to go! I personally LOVE the Carbon Fiber T-Tops!! And 800 hp is nice too!! And you can build and customize it right from the start. I'd say it's worth it...
Charles Thomas ...I refuse to this day to purchase or lease any vehicle from GM...why? Because they destroyed and got rid of the outlaw motor division...until Pontiac returns, there will be no money for GM in my family.....then out of the blue dodge saves the day with the Challenger, no one has built a car like that in almost 40 yrs... kudos Mopar!
I had a 1990 305 Firebird,I loved that old girl,I remember watching "Knight Rider" in Britain in the mid '80's as a child and not knowing what car it was as Pontiacs were not available in the U.K.,but thinking it was the coolest,sleekest,most amazing car I'd ever seen,the icing on the cake was the "pop-up" headlights.
I’ve been fortunate enough to have several F Body cars in my life: 79 Z28 former CHP car, 79 TA with 403, 83 TA with CFI, 84 TA with HO, 87 IROC with 5.7. Each car was faster than the one before it but none were fast by today’s standards. They were never raced and cared for well but despite that, they were always in need of some mechanical or electronic repair. I can’t say they were built well but I loved them all nonetheless. They were sporty, eye catching beauties that made a young man feel like the king of the road. If I could have only one of them back it would be the 79 TA (SE model). I would restore it cosmetically keeping the stock look, pull the 403 and put in a late model GM V8 probably from a Corvette (LS3 or LT1), matching 6 Speed auto tranny, and relive some old car memories with a modern twist. If only my bank account could keep up with my imagination...
I have a custom 1986 Trans Am in great condition and I love that thing. I get so many looks and compliments on it. Surprisingly, many people don't even know what kind of car it is or that it is even an old car.
Firebirds were always intended to be prettier and fancier than Camaros which is why they had popup headlights and a sleeker style. I love popup lights.
The sad part is that a 1982 would do get all the compliments as well until people see it being overtaken by a Ford Ranger thanks to it's malaisy 150 HP Chevy 305 V8
When I was a Youngster, I lived in a children's home. One of the staff members drove a 1977 seafoam green Trans Am. I would constantly ask him to take me for a ride in it, when he finally did I knew exactly what kind of car I wanted when I grew up! It made such a fabulous sound and the way it would thrust you into the back of your seat when it was given the berries, it was something that that young kid in me still Longs for! Thank you so much for your posts, I find them very entertaining and informative. Keep up the good work!
I will start off by saying I was never able to get one. With that being said.. the MAIN reason I wanted a Firebird and or a Trans-Am was because my hero at the time was none other than the famous TV detective of the time was Jim Rockford of the hit show The Rockford Files. All of his Firebird's started out as Trans-Ams.. they were "Rockforized" as they called it. Stripped of only the fender flares, the air intakes on the hood as well as the rear spoiler. James Garner refused to upgrade past the 1979 model because he strongly disliked (as did I) the newly restyled 1 piece tail lights as well as the pointy front of the 1980 production year Firebird's.
My first car was the first of the Firebird blood line, a 1967. No air, no power steering or brakes. My dad replaced the original overhead cam straight six oil leak king and three speed manual with a 3.8 v6 and 3 speed auto out of a Buick Regal.
@@TrainmasterCurt yep. It took them until '88 to get them right but by then the damage was done so they killed it. GM was good at that on more than one occasion.
301’s aren’t terrible. I’ve got a ‘80 T/A with a 4 barrel and flow master exhaust. It doesn’t go down the track but it’s my daily driver- it’s rock solid dependable and gets about 15mpg. A mild cam with bigger rockers, and headers will put you easily in the realm of the turbo version and not clean out your wallet. Currently I’m working on a way to use the better heads and intake (the 301 is a short deck, being almost an inch shorter than standard Pontiac v8’s). All in all, I’m a fan of the 301. They’re just as dependable as any other v8 and because of the low compression and rpm range they’ll last a long time with proper maintenance. 190,000 and counting.
I had an '80 Formula with a 301. It was totally optioned out, even T-tops and it got 18-19 mpg. That was in 2004. I had a '79 10th anniversary T/A in 1985 when I was in high school. It had the 400/4 speed. It got 14 mpg. Maybe you need to get a better curve on your distributor and re-jet your carb. I would think with the flowmaster exhaust you would be closer to 20 mpg. My Formula had stock exhaust including a catalytic convertor. They do run alright for what they are and best of all they have that awesome look.
Had 2 301's in my pontiac 77 & 79 broughms crank broke in both of them. I blame the tiny oil filters. Never own another one, replaced both of them with 400-4barrel's.
I really dig that 1989 TTA, I wish the 3.8L Turbo V6 would of been available the whole time instead of one year only and a updated turbo V8 would of ruled like you said.
In 1983, the new 5speed manual with 3.73 gears and the functional hood scoop and the dual resonator exhaust was a vast improvement over 1982, I miss that car!
@@arsakhalumalessil7553 yes from what i know see thay broght the 1982 one but took the 305 eng out of it and put in a 445 and thay took the 4 speed out of it and put in a 3 speed that was due to the 4 speed didnt hold up how do i know my dad had a 307old with the 4 speed and it was bad so bad that tran was rebult 6 time in 15 years
bill thompson. I blew a few of those Sissy cars away... In a 69 SS 396 Chevelle THM 400 .... They jumped on me... and yes I did a few things to it...it had 400 HP...WHAT CAN I SAY
bill thompson. I all ways liked the GTX...and the roadrunner the charger challenger cuda .. They don't make em like that anymore.. Cheers. 🍺🍺🍺🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸 AMERICAN MUSCLE...
Low in horsepower but high in torque. Because they believed that high torque gave it better fuel because torque is what gets the car moving at a green light.
That's what happens when your emissions equipment is crappy and underdeveloped. Meanwhile the Europeans didn't even bother with most of it until the late 1980s.
I didn't know about this particular aspect of the corvette people killing off Pontiac performance. Wasn't the first time, and wasn't the last. Let's not forget, a 1989 Fiero formula with a 200 hp v-6 and a base 4 cyl was very close to production. The corvette people killed that gem too. All running prototypes were destroyed. The 89 V-6 Fiero would've blown the corvette into the weeds in every way for 10 grand less. You REALLY need to do a video about this.
Ugly Mike That is the main reason I despise Corvettes. Watching those babified Corvette owners cry like little bitches in 1986/87 when the Grand National Buicks destroyed and embarrassed them was nearly priceless. The fact was that those Corvette engineers were lazy and stayed with old tech instead of upping the Vette......FINE, but they still wanted to stay king of the hill so GM held ALL its other divisions back also so as not to pass up their almighty Corvette.....except Buick slid one by them in 86/87. Of course Buick was punished for it also but still totally worth it.....lol. Yes that little Fiero was redone the last 2 years and putting a good V6 in it would have finally made it what it should have been to start with. Too bad the dickheads at GM held EVERYONE else back because the corvette engineers were boneheads and stayed with their crappy old tech instead of being the flag ship they were supposed to be.......but hey, that is just GM for ya.
Greg Allen and that sir, I why I stopped bothering with GM. Loyal for 30 years. Done. I have a 2017 Fiat Abarth 500 these days. People question my sanity for it, but the car is tiny and completely absurd. GM could've made the Sonic into a modern pocket rocket, but refused to.
Ugly Mike I come from a GM family, both my grandfather and father worked for them.....in production. I stayed loyal to them and suffered through the cavaliers of the1980's and 90's until I had to change my 6th head gasket and get the head resurfaced. GM knew they had a weak area in head gaskets but did nothing. EVEN shutting it down immeadiately you still warped the head a bit and had to have it resurfaced. A better head gasket and coolant additive would make it last longer. I switched to toyota camry and honda accord a MUCH better car in the 80's and 90's compared to any Gm compact car. I worked for GM for 10 years in maintenance and had to deal with some idiots for engineers so it is no wonder they were screwing up constantly. As far as performance cars GM would occassionally blunder into making good ones over the years but they usually lagged behind other car companies as far as new technology even though they should have been leading the way. GM finally got it right with the LS series V8's (still 2 valve pushrod engines though) in 1998..........STILL though, old tech as far as 2 valve cam in block, etc. That is the most annoying thing about GM is they could have and should have been at the cutting edge of things but constantly let the other car companies surpass them as far as new technology is concerned. The fact that they are now catching up and such would still not have me buy one of their products. I do have a 2001 silverado with an LS 5.3 though......parts are just so cheap for them.....lol. Yes, GM is the auto giant that could have but didn't over the years and that is just sad.
Ugly Mike sorry but the Fiero was discontinued in 1988 and in stock form did not come with a 200 hp v6 . That engine was proposed as a 3.1 turbo engine after 1988 but both the Fiero and that engine were killed at the end of the 1988 model year ; because the manufacturer process of the Fiero ( And the failed GM mini Plastic Vans in 1990 ) were too costly.
Exactly. No one would pay twice the money for a Vette to be beaten by a Trams AM and GM wanted the Corvette to be the top dog in their performance car line up
IDK about that, I do know I've never really been impressed with Pontiac and see no point in the different engines or frankly the brand. None of the Pontiac V8s were superior to the Chevys in any notable way.
Howard Rourke there were different between the two. Pontiac you don’t need to drain the coolant like chevy’s do. And a Pontiac intake iron ones can support 500 hp when modified.
Uhm what, drain the coolant, you mean to change the intake manifold? But yeah a lot of V engines were made that way, I don't consider it much of a benefit, it has it's downsides. There were some good iron chevy manifolds, not a big deal. The intake manifold is a minor thing, the most important thing is heads, and the Pontiac heads are worse then the Chevy heads. Not that SBC heads are great, both the Ford Cleveland and AMC heads were better. BBC heads are good, though.
To be fair, emissions was the issue. This is why the CA cars were given the Olds V8s only. Further, the Olds was clean enough that it was able to meet emissions requirements with a carburetor up to 1990 in passenger cars, when the Chevy and Cadillac had to move to fuel injection to meet the standards before that point. I *think* it was a matter of cylinder head design.
Another awesome video! I remember when the 1982 Pontiac Firebird premiered. I was only 8 yrs old at the time, so I was too young to drive. But turbo or no, I found this version of the Firebird quite handsome. It's a shame that the 4.9 litre turbo version wasn't offered.
You really would have had to ask GM. They were pretty stupid back in the day. Some Calif Vettes came with the 301 with only 150 hp. I have a 64 327 convertible (5.3L) and that engine puts out about 300 hp in stock form. Calculated from car weight and ET in the 1.4 mile.
Michael Price Your info is incorrect about the Calif only emission 1980 - 81 corvette The small block Chevy 305 V8 that out put was 165 Hp was used Not the Pontiac 301 V8 ... That V8 ( The last remaining V8 made by Pontiac after the demise of the W-72 option 400 engine ) was used for PONTIAC models ONLY Chevrolet had the 305 for the vette in Calif and the 350 for the other states. Hp numbers for the 350 were 230 hp in 1980 and 190 max in 1981.
I hear ya Bryan. Like when they stopped supporting Pontiac racing after 1963. How foolish they were, because of the recognition they received from Pontiacs success. Fortunately they had John DeLorean to bring us the GTO, and continued their success, well into the 70s. But I think GM management has always been in bed with Chevrolet.
Your videos are always so good. Thank you. Back in the day I had an '83 T/A with the H.O. 305 Chev and a stick. Pontiac/GM did a good job making that car move. The weirdest part about people back then was when GM put that Chev engine in the T/A it really made people just flock over to the Chev dealer and buy the Camaro with the same set-up. It was almost as bad as I imagine if GM had bought Ford engines for the Trans Am. Guys would even say to me "nice Trans Am but they've got that Chev engine now". My heart sank a few times hearing that. But having grown up poor I was real happy to have a car as nice as my Trans Am was, and it was a great ride too.
Fun Fact: 3rd gens are more aerodynamic at high speeds than the 4th gens. 4th gens that were used to attempt top speed runs became very unstable around 220 MPH, whereas 3rd gens were used to almost break 300 MPH.
It's amazing how bad the horsepower numbers were from the 301, 307, and earlier 305s. Later the 305 continued development and did receive some respectful numbers. Even the 350 numbers were terrible.... And the 350 is a fine engine. It's amazing they would only get 150 hp out of a 350 considering what that engine is capable of when setup right.
Many people didn't realize that 301T wasn't as slow as people thought. They really were ahead of their time. WAY ahead as there were no computers that could keep up as there are today.
I had the trans am with the crossfire injection. It was pretty slow. But everything was back then... That hood scoop was definitely functional as I was literally able to see the rain getting sucked in there on full throttle.. I never paid attention much to where the water went at the time but the car was always just fine
They did. In '89. However, if you do some research on the 3.8 Turbo, or the 3.8 in general, you'll be shocked at it's pedigree and exactly when a Turbo was first used and by who. Well, maybe not who if you're a true Gearhead.
@@SGTJDerek Exactly right!! Who would have thought that the 3.8, from its humble beginnings would turn out to be the little terror that it was!!! And seriously under rated at that!
I read that the Iron Duke was more popular than expected in the X and A cars. There was no Pontiac V8 machining line and the 301 was basically sent through the Iron Duke line twice, once for each bank. When the Iron Duke production had to be ramped up to meet this demand, they had to stop making the 301.
I just got myself an 86 trans am. She's amazing, one of the better purchases I've made. She originally had a 305 v8 but upgraded to the 350. Shes got problems, but I bought a project car so I dont mind at all. Overall she is a beast and I dont ever regret the purchase.
A bad decision from GM, they should have had the 1982+ turbo Trans-am and also used the same turbo engine as an option in the corvette both cars would have won!
Hi all ! Nicely presented video😉. I am from Ireland and own an 85 Transam right hand drive conversation from Australia. Beautiful sleek, muscular fierce looking cars . They just ooze 1980s! I really wish cars were still made with pop up headlamps, they look great, motors just don't have those sharp edgey lines anymore! Happy and safe motoring 👍.
While GM handcuffed Pontiac in its engine choices,, Ford handcuffed itself with 4 bolt hubs, small brakes and the giddy up jittery rear suspension in the Mustang and Capri. 4 bolt hubs limited aftermarket wheels and the rear suspension left you wondering what direction you were going if you hit a bump in a turn. Cheap cheap cheap Ford was. How much more would each Mustang have cost with 5 bolt hubs, rear disc brakes and larger rotors and a Pan hard bar?
Had both 83 1/2 and 84 5.0 GT's Both had the slapper bar traction setup before the factory went to the quadshock setup. Both were up graded and modified with better parts, springs, bars, bushings, and a different gear ratio. I was always pretty sure which direction I was going to end up pointing out of a corner.
I was there the 82 Mustang the boss is back was quicker than these cars were cuz they were only 27 to 2800 pounds even though they were only rated at 157 horsepower beer and quicker numbers than all the GM products even the Corvette
The naturally aspirated 301 was such a boat anchor of a motor that I don't know if I can put it into words. One of the 79 Regal's that I bought for Buick 350 swaps had one in it and was pathetic. I had an 81 Monte Carlo with the 267 or 5 or 2, can't remember which one they were on in 81, but in stock form that little SBC would walk away from that Regal with the 301. The 71 Buick 350 4bbl really woke that car up, Put the rear end and sway bar from a Sport Coupe (turbo 3.8) as well as the bulged hood and added early 90's GS emblems to the car and it was a pretty good representation of what Buick might have done in 79 if they had put a GS package on the car. I gave that 301 away, no one in their right mind would pay money for it even though it ran fine. I put an edelbrock performer manifold, a Qjet I rebuilt and a crower cam into that that 267, the cam would be one step above stock in a chevy 350, but in that little motor with the 4bbl and dual exhaust, it ran like a scalded cat, definitely stronger than a Monte with a stock 305 for the time.
Quick question for You. Of ALL the 80's & 90's Trans AM's/Firehawks which one was the strongest as far as body strength and engine strength? And lastly which one would be the BEST CHOICE to be turned into a Knight Rider K.I.T.T Replica????
I had one of the 20th anniversary V6 Turbo Trans Am's. I loved that car, but I had to sell it to be able to pay my legal bills to get my license back. I used to love pulling up to "fast cars" who thought my little V6 had nothing to offer, only to leave them at the light with their mouth wide open.
It would have been the fastest american car by the early 80s And it would certainly be the fastest car in the world by mid or late 80s It would be a different world, a world were Pontiac would be giving fight to Porsches and Ferraris the easily winning But corporate GM always downgrade their divisions and designs for saving or trying to earn money But at the end it was just simply disminishing itself That's what carried GM to bankrupcy in 2010.
ThrillSeeka New Zealand Yes. When 1987 Buick Grand National GNX was tuned by Cosworth It developed around 300 ish horsepower, enough to have 1/4 miles times (per 1987 car and driver comparison) faster than the the Porsche 911 turbo and the Ferrari F40... The only car that could beat it was the Lamborghini Countach, and that had a V12! Now imagine if you use the lighter and more appropriate Firebird/Camaro platform and enlarged the 3.8 turbo to 4.3 and then slapped 2 extra cylinders, and that was the 301 turbo for beginners. And I think that would have been enough to make it out run the Countach. Let alone undercut it's price by 50k (in 1987 dollars of course)
Sure, more power is great. But the solid rear axle design was not going to stand in the same league. GM's trick there was the new for 1984 Corvette. Face it, the Trans AM and Camaro are designed to be affordable mass production cars, not a more expensive lower production model like the Corvette. And Porsche + Ferrari even lower production volumes.
It's Ders Mane hay man are you insane...it would never have been the fastest in the world...the Ferrari F40 was the fastest in late 80s...485hp 201mph...1/4 in 12.2 seconds...I like trans Am but don't be silly...
The sharing of "corporate" engines had already begun in the '70s. It was another strong hint that GM had redundant product lines. The Olds V8 didn’t have emissions problems the larger Pontiac design (and perhaps, Buick) had. And so for a couple years, Firebird was able to maintain its cubic-inch marketing lead over Camaro, which always refused to use a 400. The 301 turbo was a way to be “better” than a Chevy 350. That translated into extra cost of not being able to put the same engine into all 50-states, and by ’82 GM had had enough of that. It’s amazing Buick was able to transform the old 3.8 from a ho-hum nothing engine into a completely re-engineered monster it became in the intercooler turbo GNs (especially the GNX). It’s also amazing that 2 years after the GNX, Pontiac was able to briefly use that engine.
I own a 1981 Turbo Trans Am. By the time I bought it in the early 90's, it no longer had that engine. I heard the original owner blew up the turbo 301. It has a Pontiac 400 from 1974 now that I thoroughly rebuilt and installed the 6x heads on with an Edelbrock Performer cam and intake package. Only modest power, but plenty enough for me. I read that the turbo 301s required a cool-down procedure that was detailed in the owner's manual, but few people followed it and this led to a shortened lifespan.
Lo, some of the 82 Pontiac Firebirds (not the Trans Am version) had the 2.5L 4 banger. Same engine as in the 2m4 Fiero and the same motor used in the U.S. Postal trucks. Big whopping 95 hp.
@@curlynigero6417 A point well made which reinforces the suspicion that GM is refocusing its marketing towards China as the main priority to sell thier cars and the U.S. market will come in sloppy second when it comes to thier priory list. GM is such a sell out company, that if there was an outcry to bring back Pontiac, they would probably sell the Pontiac name to the Chinese like Volvo did and you would have a Chinese electrical Trans Am complete with a fake anime style firebird on the hood in the future while the executives at GM laugh all the way to the bank.
Back in the 1960's - 1976, we were all handcuffed on the street and Drags with those Sears Dyno-Glass skinny Biased Tires and open rears on many SS/442 cars . My stock ( had Exhaust Cut-Outs, and a Dual Point Distributor, Legal for H/SA Class Drag Racing ) 70 GTO RA-3 with a 3:23 Posi ran 13.87 @ 105 MPH with a set of M/H Race-masters. Adjusted the stock rockers out until the last clacking session ( Lifters pumping up ) would not go away, re-tightened Lifters one half turn after they stopped Clacking. New Stock Red line, with out Valve float- 6,200 RPM. Pontiac motors you could play with, other Manufactures motors, even GM motors not so much. Spark, Air and free flowing exhaust was all a good Pontiac Motor required for and extra 30 + HP and 30 pound feet of torque .
Early in the video, the 455 and 400 are mentioned; last year of production of the 455 was 1976. The 455 was the standard engine in the Trans Am every year it was available in the Firebird, which began in 1971. In 1979, the leftover 400s were available in the Formula & Trans Am, but only with the 4-speed. It wasn't available in CA at all. Pontiac paid the SCCA for the use of the Trans Am name at a rate of $5 per TA sold. In the '77-'78 model years alone, SCCA got almost $2 MILLION from Pontiac, thanks in no small part to "Smokey & The Bandit"!
I can't believe they were so conservative and slow to adapt. Those 80s GM motors look like they came out of a Soviet tank, and it's no surprise the imports cleaned their clock.
Taylor C, they were drunk on their own arrogance. They had their customers in the palm of their hand as they continued hawking shortened grocery getter chassis with heavy yet flexible frames with ever larger truck engines shoehorned into them and overrated with SAE Gross HP that was measured without an air cleaner or exhaust system or any accessories-not even a water pump... trying to get power to the ground through a two speed slush box and bias ply tires, reeling it in with four wheel drum brakes... and holding it all up with medieval leaf spring suspension. Ralph Nader was right... unsafe at any speed. It only took two decades for GM to finally make a car that was not only fast and affordable, but safe, reliable, and efficient as well... the 4th generation F body.
@@Bartonovich52 Nader had an axe to grind against them specifically for some reason. As that axle design was on other cars, VW, Porsche, Mercedes etc. Besides compared to cars of the time not today's it was right on par. As VW, Mercedes and Porsche did in a variety of ways It was easily correctable. It had been re-engineered before his book even went to print on the production line. This also over looks very often the tire pressure variation front to rear, which was signifigant was ignored. Whether for economy, not realizing or I know better thinking. What that car could have done was start us on the path to smaller more economical power turbo, superchargers and a focus on handling. Basically imports may not have been given that easy in to take over so wildly. Instead we kept on large displacement even as regulations killed the power output.
I enjoy your videos a great deal. One thing here though, the Trans Am hood bulge was not a ram-air system. It was indeed a cold-air induction, which is different than ram-air on this particular situation.
I believe it was called cowl-induction. Some models used it for flair, while others actually utilized it for the engine to breathe. Ram air is similar, just how it's delivered.
Here's something worth considering: the Buick Turbo 3.8l should have been an available option for the Trans Am back then. Yes, Pontiac purists would have my head for saying that, but looking at the larger Grand National (and later the 20th Anniversary Trans Am), I would imagine that engine possibly having either twin turbos or a supercharger by the F body's fourth generation. Obviously, the bean counters at GM resulted in a LOT of missed opportunities, but it's difficult to find a miss more brutal than the '82 Trans Am. 🤦🏾♂️
And then you wonder why GM went bankrupt? They’re gonna collapse yet again with the ending of most passenger cars and the badge branding that still goes on
Turbocharging may have been a quicker demise to the '82 Trans Am. Emissions control and turbocharging setups were probably difficult to maintain for mass production and give reliable day to day performance. GM probably shelved the idea knowing turbocharging wasn't reliable. Back then when turbocharging began, most cars didn't last very long due to unfamiliarity with very hot engines and turbos that needed a cool down period. Coking of turbos from owners not letting a turbo cool down for a few minutes of idling caused premature turbo failure. Before EFI, engines had to run very rich when a turbo ran otherwise the extra boost of air leaned out fuel mixtures leading to blown engines or melting pistons. Anyone notice none of the turbocharged engines from the past survived after a few years? When EFI systems evolved, sensors are capable of dealing with the transition from naturally aspirated to boost to ensure fuel mixtures are correct. The results are more muscle cars now than ever with many having turbo or supercharger along with more reliability. Marrying EFI systems with electronics allows turbo and supercharger operation and still meet emissions requirements with catalytic converters. This could not happen back in the '80's.
I got a 79 t/a with a 4bbl and 2.56 posi track rear end. Off the line it was so so but once second gear hit it was on. I ran a group of 5.0s one night and they couldn't believe I was hanging right with them. My 301 is rock solid.
One thing this video misses: The Pontiac 301 V8 had a design flaw. Don't get me wrong - I'm a lifelong Pontiac fan. But the 301 is NOT Pontiac's best. Compared to the block used for the 326-350-389-400-428-455 engines, the block used for the 265-301 engines had a lowered deck, which reduced the water jacket in the wrong way, and these engines ran HOT. Adding a turbo to the mix probably didn't help. The Buick V6 was a much better design (just giving credit where it's due) and deserved all the further development it received. Pontiac would have been better off designing a new generation of V8 in the late-70's. After all, Buick and Olds each had an all new generation of engines during the 1960's, Pontiac was due.
Alas, The Death of Pontiac, no real Pontiac guy, would be caught dead, w anything other than a Pontiac mill under the hood, unfortunately late 70s version of that 400 motor were terribly under powered, but w some work ran respectable, I myself walked into a Pontiac dealer at 18, after selling my 73 Luxury Lemans, and sat behind the wheel of a 79 Trans Am, contemplated it, got out of it, and bought a 301 2 Tone Blue Grand Prix, cause of the luxury look of it, w Vogue tires and Spokes, still regret not buying the T/A bit hey, it's on my bucket list
I went to HS with a guy that had an 80 GP t-top car outfitted like you describe. Kelsey Hayes wheels, Vogue tires, 2 toned black and tan with tan leather and center console. Had the gauge package too. His had a 265 2bbl in it.. as gutless as you could get!
Adam Trombino Funny thing now, the 79 got hit pass side rear clip summer of 1980, totaled, replaced it with Black 80 Grand Prix saddle double pillow velour, t tops Vogues spokes, and the real looser, Buick 231 V6
Adam Trombino Funny thing now, the 79 got hit pass side rear clip summer of 1980, totaled, replaced it with Black 80 Grand Prix saddle double pillow velour, t tops Vogues spokes, and the real looser, Buick 231 V6 couldn't get much worse than that, truly horrible motor, replaced that junk w 83 Riviera, w Oldsmobile 307, which would have made a great anchor, last GM car I bought new, Lincolns and foreign after that, GM lost some real loyal customers
I remember the cross fired fuel injection system. It worked great until it went out. I owned 4 cars with it . The best way to fix it was to trash the 305 , and replace it with a 350 .
Stacy Dornan OH MY........the 427 chevy is one of the few engines I have never had. Plenty of 455/400 pontiacs.....small block chevys and a couple 454 chevys also a 1970 400 small block chevy (had that in a 1980s pick up truck).....oh and one 383 chevy stroker. But always wanted to get a 427 chevy to play with it just never happened. People I have known that have them say the rev much quicker than a 454 chevy. Heres hoping I hit the lottery now so I can buy one.....lol.
Unlikely that the 301 turbo would ever make 300 hp,not for long anyway.301's had a crappy weak crankshaft,part of Pontiacs attempt to lighten the engine.
not sure if the turbo 301 blocks were this way but the reg 301's had one less main cap if i recall correctly and the starter was on the opposite side from every other pontiac v8. I think they also suffered the same cam problems that a lot of the 305/350 chevys had back then. I remember 301's always leaked a lot of oil, which caused them to smoke as it leeched onto the manifolds, had no power and over all just plain sucked.
@@billwilliamson9842 i can confirm that even until the 90's , gm small blocks do have oil leak issues , it's usually seeping instead of leaking , so it isn't too bad
I had a custom ordered 81 Special Edition TA that eventually had a 455 with 485 horses and tons of torque. It would pass anything but a gas station. I really miss that car. It would have been a true collector's item today. RIP...
Now we have 4 bangers with a 1.6 turbo 🤣🤦♂️. My Jeep has a 2.0 but my 85 S10 has the little engine that could “iron duke”. Thanks govt and your emission standards.
At 1:30, you need to clarify that the W72 400 cu in Pontiac V8 (a.k.a. the T/A 6.6, with 8.1:1 compression) was ONLY available in 4 speed cars in 1979. All automatic equipped Trans Ams in 1979 got the 403 V8. In 1977 and 1978, on non-California cars, the W72 400 cu in V8 (T/A 6.6) was also only available on 4 speed cars. The automatic equipped cars in 1977 and 1978 got the L78 400 cu in Pontiac V8, which had a slightly lower compression ratio (7.7:1) and was the same engine available in Catalinas and Bonnevilles in those years.
It was done on the cheap, not representative of the work of Pete Estes and "Mac" MacKellar in previous decades. But perhaps still more durable than an SBC.
It was better cesigned than the horrible 403 motor was. The main cap bolts on a 403 actually are over large holes cast into the block. That means you could literally see the end of the bolt sticking thru the casting hole when the main caps were bolted down. You try to rev a 403 and the crank is likely to pop thru the oil pan.
I had a TA back in the late seventies. A lot of whoors graced the seats of that car. One night in particular, a fine young lady was standing on the passenger seat topless and screaming while i was doing a burnout in front of a local Burger King. I miss those days.
I actually have a 1983 Trans Am with a Pontiac 301 non turbo under the hood. It's no speed demon but it runs and drives good. It originally had the Chevy 305.
Derick Smith the timing chains were known to stretch and slip. Hopefully they came out with hardened steel belts for them, and you have one. I had the 301 in my delta 88
![FNAF vs TF2 - Episode 2 [SFM]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z5b3V2-VLb0/mqdefault.jpg)
Has there ever been a time when General Motors' management did NOT suck?!? They killed so many vehicles that had potential.
refing cars to perfection, than kill it fast fast
Nope theyve always been dogshit!
Yep they killed lots of great cars.
1986 Grand National
The 60’s, when John Delorean was in there.
I really miss Pontiac. Shame on you GM.
Amen!!
I mean they really didnt have a chose. Tbh if it wasnt for us tax payers we wouldnt even have GM. It is sad they are gone never to make another BA V8 maybe we should have given GM more in the bale out. 😒
@Evil Mofo I couldnt agree more. I was makking a point. Sarcasm is hard to illustrate vea text.
Shame on the U.S. taxpayers as well.
It was the coolest division of GM...besides the Corvette and few select years of the Camaro, I couldn’t care less about Chevrolet let alone Olds, Buick and Cadillac
I was working at GM in the 70s and early 80s. A turbo Camaro was also planned for 82 but squashed at the last minute. They even had the parts books printed and sent to the dealers with drawings and part numbers. I wish I had one of those books now.
Burt was the salesman of the year in 77 and 78.
There was a Trans Am waiting for Burt when he got to the Pearly Gates.
At least that was the story I was told.
RIP Burt.
RIP Bandit 😭😭😭
And from 82 to 86 salesman of the year was The Hoff
@@russellj.s.257 And KITT
Thanks for posting this video. Growing up, my father was friends with the general manager of the local multi-line GM dealership here in Southern California. I was 12 years old when the '82 F-cars hit the dealers. Calvin showed my dad a white 1982 Turbo T/A parked in the body shop away from the rest of the new inventory. The story was that it was a test mule for an option that got cut before production. We took it for a test drive. It was quick. He said Mom would love it. Dad compared it to the 383 Charger and 390 Fairlane they had owned in the 60's. After that I had to sit quietly on the floor in a sales cubicle for a couple of hours as three men made a ton of calls to GM to get the car released for sale. In the end, it came down to the fact that the engine was never California emissions certified for sale since it was cut before full production. Not to be.
They didn't want corvette too suffer!! it's obvious! corvette will always be GM's baby and they killed any thing that threatened it!
like the Fiero. I really wish that car wasnt killed off. it just started to get good when it got axed. imagine a modern turbo version
thatallredheadude 1 Buick Reatta
chad harmon they raped it
chad harmon that's also why they killed the GNX
The 1982 Corvette had the same dashboard as the cheap Chevrolet Cavalier. Shows how much GM appreciates their "Core Brand"
Thanking you for making this. I have always been bitter with GM over what they did to the Trans Am.
Jesse Pinkman amen man. Would have been amazing to see turbo trans am grow more. Most people have forgotten of them until recent years, glad these videos are surfacing now though.
Hey at least they didn’t work at Lowe’s in bandera.
Me too. I basically won't buy GM because of what they did to the TA. Will always be my favorite car.
The entire Pontiac brand. I not only love the trans am but the L67 powered grand prix gtp
Jesse Pinkman And Also To The CHEVROLET MONZA SPYDER, The CHEVROLET SPRINT TURBO, AND THE GEO METRO!!!
Would be so cool to see Pontiac back up and running as a independent auto manufacturer.
I wish they bring back the novas
RUclips Transdepot. They build Trans Am's out of Camaro's. And have the rights to the Pontiac and Trans Am name. (I think). It's as close as we can get for now.
@@flossietube2065 yep except they are just building hyped up camero's for 80000 and up you would be better off just buying a corvette or zl1 supercharged camero and still come out cheaper with more HP
@@sethlance8009 ,I think there more than just "hyped up Camaro's". And yeah, they are a bit pricey. But if you want a brand new Pontiac Trans Am, that's where to go! I personally LOVE the Carbon Fiber T-Tops!! And 800 hp is nice too!! And you can build and customize it right from the start. I'd say it's worth it...
Charles Thomas ...I refuse to this day to purchase or lease any vehicle from GM...why? Because they destroyed and got rid of the outlaw motor division...until Pontiac returns, there will be no money for GM in my family.....then out of the blue dodge saves the day with the Challenger, no one has built a car like that in almost 40 yrs... kudos Mopar!
I had a 1990 305 Firebird,I loved that old girl,I remember watching "Knight Rider" in Britain in the mid '80's as a child and not knowing what car it was as Pontiacs were not available in the U.K.,but thinking it was the coolest,sleekest,most amazing car I'd ever seen,the icing on the cake was the "pop-up" headlights.
Had Pontiac gotten to continue development of the turbo 301 it could have been world class performance.
I AGREE. AND WHAT IF PONTIAC MATED IT TO THE BETTER700R4 TRANS AND A 3.73 REAR END?
@@wandellasbell8843 it would be a world beater for sure. GM had the parts to make excellent vehicles but the ‘bean counters’ kept cheapening them
I’ve been fortunate enough to have several F Body cars in my life: 79 Z28 former CHP car, 79 TA with 403, 83 TA with CFI, 84 TA with HO, 87 IROC with 5.7. Each car was faster than the one before it but none were fast by today’s standards. They were never raced and cared for well but despite that, they were always in need of some mechanical or electronic repair. I can’t say they were built well but I loved them all nonetheless. They were sporty, eye catching beauties that made a young man feel like the king of the road. If I could have only one of them back it would be the 79 TA (SE model). I would restore it cosmetically keeping the stock look, pull the 403 and put in a late model GM V8 probably from a Corvette (LS3 or LT1), matching 6 Speed auto tranny, and relive some old car memories with a modern twist. If only my bank account could keep up with my imagination...
KITT was fantastic! , this model at it's time was mind blowing and still is today.Loved it as a kid
I have a custom 1986 Trans Am in great condition and I love that thing. I get so many looks and compliments on it. Surprisingly, many people don't even know what kind of car it is or that it is even an old car.
Firebirds were always intended to be prettier and fancier than Camaros which is why they had popup headlights and a sleeker style. I love popup lights.
The sad part is that a 1982 would do get all the compliments as well until people see it being overtaken by a Ford Ranger thanks to it's malaisy 150 HP Chevy 305 V8
I got an 82 camaro, it is an alright car, but that 305 is a slug.
Shawn Stafford Pontiac kinda like a different car company. Another words they have their own style. Even though it's all GM lol.
Shawn Stafford I know how you feel. I have a 1991 with the banshee nose and some people think it’s a corvette for some reason.
When I was a Youngster, I lived in a children's home. One of the staff members drove a 1977 seafoam green Trans Am. I would constantly ask him to take me for a ride in it, when he finally did I knew exactly what kind of car I wanted when I grew up! It made such a fabulous sound and the way it would thrust you into the back of your seat when it was given the berries, it was something that that young kid in me still Longs for! Thank you so much for your posts, I find them very entertaining and informative. Keep up the good work!
What kind of Trans Am did you get?
I will start off by saying I was never able to get one. With that being said.. the MAIN reason I wanted a Firebird and or a Trans-Am was because my hero at the time was none other than the famous TV detective of the time was Jim Rockford of the hit show The Rockford Files. All of his Firebird's started out as Trans-Ams.. they were "Rockforized" as they called it. Stripped of only the fender flares, the air intakes on the hood as well as the rear spoiler. James Garner refused to upgrade past the 1979 model because he strongly disliked (as did I) the newly restyled 1 piece tail lights as well as the pointy front of the 1980 production year Firebird's.
Dreams don't have to die.
My first car was the first of the Firebird blood line, a 1967. No air, no power steering or brakes. My dad replaced the original overhead cam straight six oil leak king and three speed manual with a 3.8 v6 and 3 speed auto out of a Buick Regal.
General Motors has done everything humanly possible to discourage customers!!
General Motors Worst enemy is General Motors. Killing the turbocharged trans am and 1989 Fiero DOHC 6. 🤔🤔😳
CarnyBoy...
*PROUD Gen5 Camaro owner and I am GM4LIFE...*
I love GM
Lung Dong 89 Fiero??
@@TrainmasterCurt yep. It took them until '88 to get them right but by then the damage was done so they killed it. GM was good at that on more than one occasion.
301’s aren’t terrible. I’ve got a ‘80 T/A with a 4 barrel and flow master exhaust. It doesn’t go down the track but it’s my daily driver- it’s rock solid dependable and gets about 15mpg. A mild cam with bigger rockers, and headers will put you easily in the realm of the turbo version and not clean out your wallet. Currently I’m working on a way to use the better heads and intake (the 301 is a short deck, being almost an inch shorter than standard Pontiac v8’s). All in all, I’m a fan of the 301. They’re just as dependable as any other v8 and because of the low compression and rpm range they’ll last a long time with proper maintenance. 190,000 and counting.
I had an '80 Formula with a 301. It was totally optioned out, even T-tops and it got 18-19 mpg. That was in 2004. I had a '79 10th anniversary T/A in 1985 when I was in high school. It had the 400/4 speed. It got 14 mpg. Maybe you need to get a better curve on your distributor and re-jet your carb. I would think with the flowmaster exhaust you would be closer to 20 mpg. My Formula had stock exhaust including a catalytic convertor. They do run alright for what they are and best of all they have that awesome look.
Had 2 301's in my pontiac 77 & 79 broughms crank broke in both of them. I blame the tiny oil filters. Never own another one, replaced both of them with 400-4barrel's.
I really dig that 1989 TTA, I wish the 3.8L Turbo V6 would of been available the whole time instead of one year only and a updated turbo V8 would of ruled like you said.
It would have been even better with a V8, more pre-boost torque
Great narration your not yelling screaming or acting stupid which sadly it seems everyone else like to do. You made me want to listen. Great job.
In 1983, the new 5speed manual with 3.73 gears and the functional hood scoop and the dual resonator exhaust was a vast improvement over 1982, I miss that car!
But 1987 would see the use of the 5.7L V-8 (from the Chevrolet Corvette) in the Trans Am.
It's the Knight Industries two thousand KITT from Knight Rider
Kitty had the Pontiac motor
400 with the CEM It couldn't be on the street so they took a 1977 Pontiac motor and put it in Kitt !
@@richardc6038 - Kitt sounds like a swoopy fiberglass body on a VW Beetle chassis.
@@richardc6038 the SD 455??
@@arsakhalumalessil7553 yes from what i know see thay broght the 1982 one but took the 305 eng out of it and put in a 445 and thay took the 4 speed out of it and put in a 3 speed that was due to the 4 speed didnt hold up how do i know my dad had a 307old with the 4 speed and it was bad so bad that tran was rebult 6 time in 15 years
Thank God I kept my 69GTX440.
I still have it ,1979 - Present.
bill thompson. I blew a few of those Sissy cars away... In a 69 SS 396 Chevelle THM 400 .... They jumped on me... and yes I did a few things to it...it had 400 HP...WHAT CAN I SAY
Rodney Brand I feel bad for you if you're stuck with an automatic that's a shame
bill thompson. I all ways liked the GTX...and the roadrunner the charger challenger cuda .. They don't make em like that anymore.. Cheers. 🍺🍺🍺🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸 AMERICAN MUSCLE...
bill thompson. Bill...that turbo 400 cost me 1,400 dollars to build in 1977 it would spank a 4 speed
bill thompson Grrreat!!
It’s incredible to me how low output all the huge engines had.
When compression has first number in the 7 SEVEN RANGE like
7.75:1 Not hard @ all!.
They spent all their energy burning fuel!
Low in horsepower but high in torque. Because they believed that high torque gave it better fuel because torque is what gets the car moving at a green light.
That's what happens when your emissions equipment is crappy and underdeveloped. Meanwhile the Europeans didn't even bother with most of it until the late 1980s.
Computers, efficiency, materials used.
Used to love that "Cold Air" induction sound on my 82 T/A.
Better than the sound of the headlights retracting?
Nothing beats the buzzing antenna going up and down.
I didn't know about this particular aspect of the corvette people killing off Pontiac performance. Wasn't the first time, and wasn't the last. Let's not forget, a 1989 Fiero formula with a 200 hp v-6 and a base 4 cyl was very close to production. The corvette people killed that gem too. All running prototypes were destroyed. The 89 V-6 Fiero would've blown the corvette into the weeds in every way for 10 grand less. You REALLY need to do a video about this.
fiero's with the buick turbo 6 swapped in are incredibly fast
Ugly Mike
That is the main reason I despise Corvettes.
Watching those babified Corvette owners cry like little bitches in 1986/87 when the Grand National Buicks destroyed and embarrassed them was nearly priceless. The fact was that those Corvette engineers were lazy and
stayed with old tech instead of upping the Vette......FINE, but they still wanted to stay king of the hill so GM held ALL its other divisions back also so as not to pass up their almighty Corvette.....except Buick slid one by them in 86/87.
Of course Buick was punished for it also but still totally worth it.....lol.
Yes that little Fiero was redone the last 2 years and putting a good V6 in it would have finally made it what it should
have been to start with.
Too bad the dickheads at GM held EVERYONE else back because the corvette engineers were boneheads and stayed with their crappy old tech instead of being the flag ship they were supposed to be.......but hey, that is just
GM for ya.
Greg Allen and that sir, I why I stopped bothering with GM. Loyal for 30 years. Done. I have a 2017 Fiat Abarth 500 these days. People question my sanity for it, but the car is tiny and completely absurd. GM could've made the Sonic into a modern pocket rocket, but refused to.
Ugly Mike
I come from a GM family, both my grandfather and father worked for them.....in production.
I stayed loyal to them and suffered through the cavaliers of the1980's and 90's until I had to change my 6th head gasket and get the head resurfaced. GM knew they had a weak area in head gaskets but did nothing.
EVEN shutting it down immeadiately you still warped the head a bit and had to have it resurfaced. A better head gasket and coolant additive would make it last longer. I switched to toyota camry and honda accord a MUCH better car in the 80's and 90's compared to any Gm compact car.
I worked for GM for 10 years in maintenance and had to deal with some idiots for engineers so it is no wonder they were screwing up constantly.
As far as performance cars GM would occassionally blunder into making good ones over the years but they usually lagged behind other car companies as far as new technology even though they should have been leading the way. GM finally got it right with the LS series V8's (still 2 valve pushrod engines though) in 1998..........STILL though, old tech as far as 2 valve cam in block, etc.
That is the most annoying thing about GM is they could have and should have been at the cutting edge of things but constantly let the other car companies surpass them as far as new technology is concerned.
The fact that they are now catching up and such would still not have me buy one of their products.
I do have a 2001 silverado with an LS 5.3 though......parts are just so cheap for them.....lol.
Yes, GM is the auto giant that could have but didn't over the years and that is just sad.
Ugly Mike sorry but the Fiero was discontinued in 1988 and in stock form did not come with a 200 hp v6 .
That engine was proposed as a 3.1 turbo engine after 1988 but both the Fiero and that engine were killed at the end of the 1988 model year ; because the manufacturer process of the Fiero ( And the failed GM mini Plastic Vans in 1990 ) were too costly.
That’s why GM killed the Pontiac motor nothing was to be faster than the corvette
Exactly. No one would pay twice the money for a Vette to be beaten by a Trams AM and GM wanted the Corvette to be the top dog in their performance car line up
IDK about that, I do know I've never really been impressed with Pontiac and see no point in the different engines or frankly the brand. None of the Pontiac V8s were superior to the Chevys in any notable way.
Howard Rourke there were different between the two. Pontiac you don’t need to drain the coolant like chevy’s do. And a Pontiac intake iron ones can support 500 hp when modified.
Uhm what, drain the coolant, you mean to change the intake manifold? But yeah a lot of V engines were made that way, I don't consider it much of a benefit, it has it's downsides.
There were some good iron chevy manifolds, not a big deal.
The intake manifold is a minor thing, the most important thing is heads, and the Pontiac heads are worse then the Chevy heads. Not that SBC heads are great, both the Ford Cleveland and AMC heads were better. BBC heads are good, though.
Howard Rourke any Pontiac head can be ported to flow well.
To be fair, emissions was the issue. This is why the CA cars were given the Olds V8s only. Further, the Olds was clean enough that it was able to meet emissions requirements with a carburetor up to 1990 in passenger cars, when the Chevy and Cadillac had to move to fuel injection to meet the standards before that point.
I *think* it was a matter of cylinder head design.
Between 1977-80, the original 350 Rocket V-8 engine lost its rigidity.
Another awesome video! I remember when the 1982 Pontiac Firebird premiered. I was only 8 yrs old at the time, so I was too young to drive. But turbo or no, I found this version of the Firebird quite handsome. It's a shame that the 4.9 litre turbo version wasn't offered.
Likely would have been faster than the Corvette which was a GM no-no.
So? What's wrong with having a car faster than the Corvette? The Corvette could've used some competition from other sports and personal cars.
You really would have had to ask GM. They were pretty stupid back in the day. Some Calif Vettes came with the 301 with only 150 hp. I have a 64 327 convertible (5.3L) and that engine puts out about 300 hp in stock form. Calculated from car weight and ET in the 1.4 mile.
Michael Price Your info is incorrect about the Calif only emission 1980 - 81 corvette The small block Chevy 305 V8 that out put was 165 Hp was used Not the Pontiac 301 V8 ... That V8 ( The last remaining V8 made by Pontiac after the demise of the W-72 option 400 engine ) was used for PONTIAC models ONLY Chevrolet had the 305 for the vette in Calif and the 350 for the other states. Hp numbers for the 350 were 230 hp in 1980 and 190 max in 1981.
You are correct. 165 HP is pretty sad...
i might be young like teen age young but researching old cars really fascinates me.
Euree Evangelista old cars? What are you talking about? I remember when these things were new you young whippersnapper!
@@leejackson4724 but old American cars are extra old because they were so slow.
i always thought corvetts were ugly, love the pontiac firebirds an fiero gts
I am so happy I still have my 82 trans am in the garage. It had the crossfire fuel injected motor in it.
Best channel to fall asleep to.relaxing narration of fun car facts.i always have dreams of driving around. Usually clothed.
This is so sad, I've never heard this before. It's still in my Top 3 all time favourite cars, because it looks beautiful IMO.
GM snatches defeat out of the jaws of victory once again
I hear ya Bryan. Like when they stopped supporting Pontiac racing after 1963. How foolish they were, because of the recognition they received from Pontiacs success. Fortunately they had John DeLorean to bring us the GTO, and continued their success, well into the 70s. But I think GM management has always been in bed with Chevrolet.
Gm has a track record of making bone-head decisions!
I agree they cod have been more legendary
Your videos are always so good. Thank you.
Back in the day I had an '83 T/A with the H.O. 305 Chev and a stick. Pontiac/GM did a good job making that car move. The weirdest part about people back then was when GM put that Chev engine in the T/A it really made people just flock over to the Chev dealer and buy the Camaro with the same set-up. It was almost as bad as I imagine if GM had bought Ford engines for the Trans Am. Guys would even say to me "nice Trans Am but they've got that Chev engine now". My heart sank a few times hearing that. But having grown up poor I was real happy to have a car as nice as my Trans Am was, and it was a great ride too.
One of my all time favorite cars of all time.
Jose Montano do you mean of all times ?
One of mine too
They're garbage tho
Fun Fact: 3rd gens are more aerodynamic at high speeds than the 4th gens. 4th gens that were used to attempt top speed runs became very unstable around 220 MPH, whereas 3rd gens were used to almost break 300 MPH.
It's amazing how bad the horsepower numbers were from the 301, 307, and earlier 305s. Later the 305 continued development and did receive some respectful numbers. Even the 350 numbers were terrible.... And the 350 is a fine engine. It's amazing they would only get 150 hp out of a 350 considering what that engine is capable of when setup right.
The best a 305 was ever rated at was 230 in TPI configuration!!
It's almost as if they TRIED to smother these engines.
Many people didn't realize that 301T wasn't as slow as people thought. They really were ahead of their time. WAY ahead as there were no computers that could keep up as there are today.
They were really good low end torque engines.
sub 200hp v8's.
Dark times...
The price of meeting fuel economy and emissions requirements in a pinch. No company had given those a thought until the oil embargo
I had the trans am with the crossfire injection. It was pretty slow. But everything was back then... That hood scoop was definitely functional as I was literally able to see the rain getting sucked in there on full throttle.. I never paid attention much to where the water went at the time but the car was always just fine
The 5.0 wasn't the logical decision. Could you imagine the Firebirds of the 80's with the power of a Grand National?
They did. In '89. However, if you do some research on the 3.8 Turbo, or the 3.8 in general, you'll be shocked at it's pedigree and exactly when a Turbo was first used and by who. Well, maybe not who if you're a true Gearhead.
@@SGTJDerek
Exactly right!! Who would have thought that the 3.8, from its humble beginnings would turn out to be the little terror that it was!!! And seriously under rated at that!
@@SGTJDerek Guess you are talking about the Olds Jetfire? If not please let me know !
I read that the Iron Duke was more popular than expected in the X and A cars. There was no Pontiac V8 machining line and the 301 was basically sent through the Iron Duke line twice, once for each bank. When the Iron Duke production had to be ramped up to meet this demand, they had to stop making the 301.
Imagine if Pontiac was allowed the Buick turbo V6 for the Fiero.
A small MR car, blowing the doors off the old man Corvette.
Good thing you can swap a Buick 3800 supercharged v6 in a fiero and turbo it to get that exact experience.
Raz_ Nick - Have you done it? How badass is that ride?
I just got myself an 86 trans am. She's amazing, one of the better purchases I've made. She originally had a 305 v8 but upgraded to the 350. Shes got problems, but I bought a project car so I dont mind at all. Overall she is a beast and I dont ever regret the purchase.
In the early 80's anything under 10 seconds to 60 was pretty quick with many cars taking 15~20 seconds to 60.
My very first car, back in 1991, was a 1981 turbo Trans-Am!!! Absolutely loved and miss that car. Shame on GM for killing the Pontiac brand!!
A bad decision from GM, they should have had the 1982+ turbo Trans-am and also used the same turbo engine as an option in the corvette both cars would have won!
My grandpa had the 1979 silver one. I LOVED that Trans Am.
Then my uncle painted it a metallic rose pink when my sister wanted it!
interesting video....
had they continued the R&D on the 301 turbo, it would have definitely produced more HP as the years went on
Hi all ! Nicely presented video😉. I am from Ireland and own an 85 Transam right hand drive conversation from Australia. Beautiful sleek, muscular fierce looking cars . They just ooze 1980s! I really wish cars were still made with pop up headlamps, they look great, motors just don't have those sharp edgey lines anymore! Happy and safe motoring 👍.
I remember all them options
I had a 90 for 11 years. 86 with around 350 horse, loved them both, but now i own a 78 with 425 horse i love this car its my dream car!!
While GM handcuffed Pontiac in its engine choices,, Ford handcuffed itself with 4 bolt hubs, small brakes and the giddy up jittery rear suspension in the Mustang and Capri. 4 bolt hubs limited aftermarket wheels and the rear suspension left you wondering what direction you were going if you hit a bump in a turn. Cheap cheap cheap Ford was. How much more would each Mustang have cost with 5 bolt hubs, rear disc brakes and larger rotors and a Pan hard bar?
Had both 83 1/2 and 84 5.0 GT's Both had the slapper bar traction setup before the factory went to the quadshock setup. Both were up graded and modified with better parts, springs, bars, bushings, and a different gear ratio. I was always pretty sure which direction I was going to end up pointing out of a corner.
Too much if you consider that fox bodies never strayed too far away from the original dreary 1976 Fairmont
I was there the 82 Mustang the boss is back was quicker than these cars were cuz they were only 27 to 2800 pounds even though they were only rated at 157 horsepower beer and quicker numbers than all the GM products even the Corvette
At least ford doesn’t kill any of America’s most iconic brands (pontiac)
RAPTOR 479
Really? I miss Mercury... cougars, montegos and marauders
The naturally aspirated 301 was such a boat anchor of a motor that I don't know if I can put it into words. One of the 79 Regal's that I bought for Buick 350 swaps had one in it and was pathetic. I had an 81 Monte Carlo with the 267 or 5 or 2, can't remember which one they were on in 81, but in stock form that little SBC would walk away from that Regal with the 301. The 71 Buick 350 4bbl really woke that car up, Put the rear end and sway bar from a Sport Coupe (turbo 3.8) as well as the bulged hood and added early 90's GS emblems to the car and it was a pretty good representation of what Buick might have done in 79 if they had put a GS package on the car. I gave that 301 away, no one in their right mind would pay money for it even though it ran fine. I put an edelbrock performer manifold, a Qjet I rebuilt and a crower cam into that that 267, the cam would be one step above stock in a chevy 350, but in that little motor with the 4bbl and dual exhaust, it ran like a scalded cat, definitely stronger than a Monte with a stock 305 for the time.
GM, didn't want the Chevy CORVETTE to be 2nd to the Pontiac Turbo V-8, 304, while the vette had a 350cid. All about the
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!
U dam right papo. So when I retire I'll buy a '67 gto nuff said lol 😆 🚗💨💥
There was countless times GM let another car be faster then the Corvette......
The same could be said for the GRand National, they couldnt let the cheaper cars out perform their baby the Corvette.
Quick question for You. Of ALL the 80's & 90's Trans AM's/Firehawks which one was the strongest as far as body strength and engine strength? And lastly which one would be the BEST CHOICE to be turned into a Knight Rider K.I.T.T Replica????
They discontinued a pop culture classic!
I had one of the 20th anniversary V6 Turbo Trans Am's. I loved that car, but I had to sell it to be able to pay my legal bills to get my license back. I used to love pulling up to "fast cars" who thought my little V6 had nothing to offer, only to leave them at the light with their mouth wide open.
I have a 95’ formula. Pontiac is my favorite brand.
Pontiac Maniac great car. 95 TA in the garage
You are forgetting the #1 commandment: "Thou shall not usurp the COrvette as performance champion." :D lol
It would have been the fastest american car by the early 80s
And it would certainly be the fastest car in the world by mid or late 80s
It would be a different world, a world were Pontiac would be giving fight to Porsches and Ferraris the easily winning
But corporate GM always downgrade their divisions and designs for saving or trying to earn money
But at the end it was just simply disminishing itself
That's what carried GM to bankrupcy in 2010.
It's Ders Mane it would have been quick dude but fastest in the world? The Italians, germans and Japanese all had stuff in totally different leagues
ThrillSeeka New Zealand Yes.
When 1987 Buick Grand National GNX was tuned by Cosworth It developed around 300 ish horsepower, enough to have 1/4 miles times (per 1987 car and driver comparison) faster than the the Porsche 911 turbo and the Ferrari F40... The only car that could beat it was the Lamborghini Countach, and that had a V12!
Now imagine if you use the lighter and more appropriate Firebird/Camaro platform and enlarged the 3.8 turbo to 4.3 and then slapped 2 extra cylinders, and that was the 301 turbo for beginners.
And I think that would have been enough to make it out run the Countach. Let alone undercut it's price by 50k (in 1987 dollars of course)
Twin Turbo Banks Trans AM - 300 MPH.
Sure, more power is great. But the solid rear axle design was not going to stand in the same league. GM's trick there was the new for 1984 Corvette. Face it, the Trans AM and Camaro are designed to be affordable mass production cars, not a more expensive lower production model like the Corvette. And Porsche + Ferrari even lower production volumes.
It's Ders Mane hay man are you insane...it would never have been the fastest in the world...the Ferrari F40 was the fastest in late 80s...485hp 201mph...1/4 in 12.2 seconds...I like trans Am but don't be silly...
In 87, I purchased a used 84 TA and it was a pretty darn cool car. This was really interesting. Thanks for this video.
So,, the 1986 and 87 Buick GS was likely the fastest production car of the 1980's ?:
Poy Ester the Buick gn, turbo 3.8 ta, ZR1 corvette!!!, Chevy cyclone/typhoon 4.3 turbo and I think a L98 vette somewhere in there.
Don’t forget the Shelby turbo Dodges. An Omni glh would hold there own with any of these cars
I had an ‘89 Pontiac Formula 350. It was a great car for those times.
Pontiac should have of turbo the 5.0 as a way to say TAKE THAT GM
The sharing of "corporate" engines had already begun in the '70s. It was another strong hint that GM had redundant product lines.
The Olds V8 didn’t have emissions problems the larger Pontiac design (and perhaps, Buick) had. And so for a couple years, Firebird was able to maintain its cubic-inch marketing lead over Camaro, which always refused to use a 400. The 301 turbo was a way to be “better” than a Chevy 350. That translated into extra cost of not being able to put the same engine into all 50-states, and by ’82 GM had had enough of that.
It’s amazing Buick was able to transform the old 3.8 from a ho-hum nothing engine into a completely re-engineered monster it became in the intercooler turbo GNs (especially the GNX). It’s also amazing that 2 years after the GNX, Pontiac was able to briefly use that engine.
the lack of power in the 75-90 "muscle cars" makes me sad in my pants.
I own a 1981 Turbo Trans Am. By the time I bought it in the early 90's, it no longer had that engine. I heard the original owner blew up the turbo 301. It has a Pontiac 400 from 1974 now that I thoroughly rebuilt and installed the 6x heads on with an Edelbrock Performer cam and intake package. Only modest power, but plenty enough for me. I read that the turbo 301s required a cool-down procedure that was detailed in the owner's manual, but few people followed it and this led to a shortened lifespan.
Please do the 1974 -1978 Mustang II's!
Between that car and a raw vietnam war footage, I choose the later
The 70's were truly traumatic
Erock those cars were trash and a embarrassment
Erock I believe it's been done. The Mustang ii's were fine and fun cars, especially with V8.
Lo, some of the 82 Pontiac Firebirds (not the Trans Am version) had the 2.5L 4 banger. Same engine as in the 2m4 Fiero and the same motor used in the U.S. Postal trucks. Big whopping 95 hp.
Gm always screwed Pontiac over, then killed it. Only to save Buick and Cadillac. Blah. Hope they get bought out or go under.
They're headed that way!
They should’ve kept Pontiac and got rid of Buick, only good thing they made was the grand national
@@iankerr1549 they kept Buick cause it's a big seller in china
@@curlynigero6417 A point well made which reinforces the suspicion that GM is refocusing its marketing towards China as the main priority to sell thier cars and the U.S. market will come in sloppy second when it comes to thier priory list. GM is such a sell out company, that if there was an outcry to bring back Pontiac, they would probably sell the Pontiac name to the Chinese like Volvo did and you would have a Chinese electrical Trans Am complete with a fake anime style firebird on the hood in the future while the executives at GM laugh all the way to the bank.
@@curlynigero6417 you are correct sir the best selling car in china
I believe even to this day the style of that car is just phenomenal, it sure dose bring back memories
Do a fourth gen video. Or one on lt1/lt4.
Back in the 1960's - 1976, we were all handcuffed on the street and Drags with those Sears Dyno-Glass skinny Biased Tires and open rears on many SS/442 cars . My stock ( had Exhaust Cut-Outs, and a Dual Point Distributor, Legal for H/SA Class Drag Racing ) 70 GTO RA-3 with a 3:23 Posi ran 13.87 @ 105 MPH with a set of M/H Race-masters. Adjusted the stock rockers out until the last clacking session ( Lifters pumping up ) would not go away, re-tightened Lifters one half turn after they stopped Clacking. New Stock Red line, with out Valve float- 6,200 RPM. Pontiac motors you could play with, other Manufactures motors, even GM motors not so much. Spark, Air and free flowing exhaust was all a good Pontiac Motor required for and extra 30 + HP and 30 pound feet of torque .
The 305 engine was still a pretty solid engine.
Early in the video, the 455 and 400 are mentioned; last year of production of the 455 was 1976. The 455 was the standard engine in the Trans Am every year it was available in the Firebird, which began in 1971. In 1979, the leftover 400s were available in the Formula & Trans Am, but only with the 4-speed. It wasn't available in CA at all. Pontiac paid the SCCA for the use of the Trans Am name at a rate of $5 per TA sold. In the '77-'78 model years alone, SCCA got almost $2 MILLION from Pontiac, thanks in no small part to "Smokey & The Bandit"!
The 1973-74 Firebird Formula 255 was the last great Firebird, with its 290 hp 455.
GM = Ship of Fools.
Straight on!
I can't believe they were so conservative and slow to adapt. Those 80s GM motors look like they came out of a Soviet tank, and it's no surprise the imports cleaned their clock.
Taylor C, they were drunk on their own arrogance. They had their customers in the palm of their hand as they continued hawking shortened grocery getter chassis with heavy yet flexible frames with ever larger truck engines shoehorned into them and overrated with SAE Gross HP that was measured without an air cleaner or exhaust system or any accessories-not even a water pump... trying to get power to the ground through a two speed slush box and bias ply tires, reeling it in with four wheel drum brakes... and holding it all up with medieval leaf spring suspension. Ralph Nader was right... unsafe at any speed. It only took two decades for GM to finally make a car that was not only fast and affordable, but safe, reliable, and efficient as well... the 4th generation F body.
@@Bartonovich52 Nader had an axe to grind against them specifically for some reason. As that axle design was on other cars, VW, Porsche, Mercedes etc. Besides compared to cars of the time not today's it was right on par. As VW, Mercedes and Porsche did in a variety of ways It was easily correctable. It had been re-engineered before his book even went to print on the production line. This also over looks very often the tire pressure variation front to rear, which was signifigant was ignored. Whether for economy, not realizing or I know better thinking. What that car could have done was start us on the path to smaller more economical power turbo, superchargers and a focus on handling. Basically imports may not have been given that easy in to take over so wildly. Instead we kept on large displacement even as regulations killed the power output.
Well said
I enjoy your videos a great deal. One thing here though, the Trans Am hood bulge was not a ram-air system. It was indeed a cold-air induction, which is different than ram-air on this particular situation.
I believe it was called cowl-induction. Some models used it for flair, while others actually utilized it for the engine to breathe. Ram air is similar, just how it's delivered.
still se sexiest car ever built,especialy in black with a red flashing light in the nose ;-)
Here's something worth considering: the Buick Turbo 3.8l should have been an available option for the Trans Am back then. Yes, Pontiac purists would have my head for saying that, but looking at the larger Grand National (and later the 20th Anniversary Trans Am), I would imagine that engine possibly having either twin turbos or a supercharger by the F body's fourth generation.
Obviously, the bean counters at GM resulted in a LOT of missed opportunities, but it's difficult to find a miss more brutal than the '82 Trans Am. 🤦🏾♂️
And then you wonder why GM went bankrupt? They’re gonna collapse yet again with the ending of most passenger cars and the badge branding that still goes on
GM killed off its Australian brand Holden, and it sold Vauxhall (England) and Opel (Germany) to Peugeot.
this is the best documentary I ever came across,thank you sir for this info
Turbocharging may have been a quicker demise to the '82 Trans Am. Emissions control and turbocharging setups were probably difficult to maintain for mass production and give reliable day to day performance. GM probably shelved the idea knowing turbocharging wasn't reliable. Back then when turbocharging began, most cars didn't last very long due to unfamiliarity with very hot engines and turbos that needed a cool down period. Coking of turbos from owners not letting a turbo cool down for a few minutes of idling caused premature turbo failure. Before EFI, engines had to run very rich when a turbo ran otherwise the extra boost of air leaned out fuel mixtures leading to blown engines or melting pistons. Anyone notice none of the turbocharged engines from the past survived after a few years? When EFI systems evolved, sensors are capable of dealing with the transition from naturally aspirated to boost to ensure fuel mixtures are correct. The results are more muscle cars now than ever with many having turbo or supercharger along with more reliability. Marrying EFI systems with electronics allows turbo and supercharger operation and still meet emissions requirements with catalytic converters. This could not happen back in the '80's.
I got a 79 t/a with a 4bbl and 2.56 posi track rear end. Off the line it was so so but once second gear hit it was on. I ran a group of 5.0s one night and they couldn't believe I was hanging right with them. My 301 is rock solid.
This is so sad
One thing this video misses: The Pontiac 301 V8 had a design flaw. Don't get me wrong - I'm a lifelong Pontiac fan. But the 301 is NOT Pontiac's best. Compared to the block used for the 326-350-389-400-428-455 engines, the block used for the 265-301 engines had a lowered deck, which reduced the water jacket in the wrong way, and these engines ran HOT. Adding a turbo to the mix probably didn't help. The Buick V6 was a much better design (just giving credit where it's due) and deserved all the further development it received. Pontiac would have been better off designing a new generation of V8 in the late-70's. After all, Buick and Olds each had an all new generation of engines during the 1960's, Pontiac was due.
Alas, The Death of Pontiac, no real Pontiac guy, would be caught dead, w anything other than a Pontiac mill under the hood, unfortunately late 70s version of that 400 motor were terribly under powered, but w some work ran respectable, I myself walked into a Pontiac dealer at 18, after selling my 73 Luxury Lemans, and sat behind the wheel of a 79 Trans Am, contemplated it, got out of it, and bought a 301 2 Tone Blue Grand Prix, cause of the luxury look of it, w Vogue tires and Spokes, still regret not buying the T/A bit hey, it's on my bucket list
I went to HS with a guy that had an 80 GP t-top car outfitted like you describe. Kelsey Hayes wheels, Vogue tires, 2 toned black and tan with tan leather and center console. Had the gauge package too. His had a 265 2bbl in it.. as gutless as you could get!
Adam Trombino Funny thing now, the 79 got hit pass side rear clip summer of 1980, totaled, replaced it with Black 80 Grand Prix saddle double pillow velour, t tops Vogues spokes, and the real looser, Buick 231 V6
Adam Trombino Funny thing now, the 79 got hit pass side rear clip summer of 1980, totaled, replaced it with Black 80 Grand Prix saddle double pillow velour, t tops Vogues spokes, and the real looser, Buick 231 V6 couldn't get much worse than that, truly horrible motor, replaced that junk w 83 Riviera, w Oldsmobile 307, which would have made a great anchor, last GM car I bought new, Lincolns and foreign after that, GM lost some real loyal customers
You could have gotten an 82 with the Iron Duke
Nicholas Rodrigues I also could've went for a lobatamy
I remember the cross fired fuel injection system. It worked great until it went out. I owned 4 cars with it . The best way to fix it was to trash the 305 , and replace it with a 350 .
I also have a 1969 427 Nova SS
Stacy Dornan
OH MY........the 427 chevy is one of the few engines I have never had.
Plenty of 455/400 pontiacs.....small block chevys and a couple 454 chevys also a 1970 400 small block chevy (had that in a 1980s pick up truck).....oh and one 383 chevy stroker. But always wanted to get a 427 chevy to play with
it just never happened. People I have known that have them say the rev much quicker than a 454 chevy.
Heres hoping I hit the lottery now so I can buy one.....lol.
Turbo V8 Trans Am would of be amazing! The Firebird is an 80s icon, and this would now be a sought after gem of a collector car
Unlikely that the 301 turbo would ever make 300 hp,not for long anyway.301's had a crappy weak crankshaft,part of Pontiacs attempt to lighten the engine.
not sure if the turbo 301 blocks were this way but the reg 301's had one less main cap if i recall correctly and the starter was on the opposite side from every other pontiac v8. I think they also suffered the same cam problems that a lot of the 305/350 chevys had back then. I remember 301's always leaked a lot of oil, which caused them to smoke as it leeched onto the manifolds, had no power and over all just plain sucked.
@@billwilliamson9842 i can confirm that even until the 90's , gm small blocks do have oil leak issues , it's usually seeping instead of leaking , so it isn't too bad
@@jonslife3533 I haven't seen a older perimeter valve cover small block not leak. They were like old Harleys lol
I had a custom ordered 81 Special Edition TA that eventually had a 455 with 485 horses and tons of torque. It would pass anything but a gas station. I really miss that car. It would have been a true collector's item today. RIP...
Now we have 4 bangers with a 1.6 turbo 🤣🤦♂️. My Jeep has a 2.0 but my 85 S10 has the little engine that could “iron duke”. Thanks govt and your emission standards.
At 1:30, you need to clarify that the W72 400 cu in Pontiac V8 (a.k.a. the T/A 6.6, with 8.1:1 compression) was ONLY available in 4 speed cars in 1979. All automatic equipped Trans Ams in 1979 got the 403 V8. In 1977 and 1978, on non-California cars, the W72 400 cu in V8 (T/A 6.6) was also only available on 4 speed cars. The automatic equipped cars in 1977 and 1978 got the L78 400 cu in Pontiac V8, which had a slightly lower compression ratio (7.7:1) and was the same engine available in Catalinas and Bonnevilles in those years.
Horsepower Numbers Were Horrible Back Then
karl smith until the mid 80s cars really started improving the turbo 89 trans am was a monster
When are you guys going to do 4th gen F bodies? 93s are 29 years old. Going to be 30 years in a few months. Is that not old enough?
The 301 Pontiac turbo made some power for its day, but it was not a well designed motor.
It was done on the cheap, not representative of the work of Pete Estes and "Mac" MacKellar in previous decades. But perhaps still more durable than an SBC.
It was better cesigned than the horrible 403 motor was. The main cap bolts on a 403 actually are over large holes cast into the block. That means you could literally see the end of the bolt sticking thru the casting hole when the main caps were bolted down. You try to rev a 403 and the crank is likely to pop thru the oil pan.
@@michaelwilkening8542
Windowed main bearing bulkheads do not a strong bottom end make!!!!
I had a TA back in the late seventies. A lot of whoors graced the seats of that car. One night in particular, a fine young lady was standing on the passenger seat topless and screaming while i was doing a burnout in front of a local Burger King. I miss those days.
and this is why I hate the Corvette still
corvettes are old man cars
I actually have a 1983 Trans Am with a Pontiac 301 non turbo under the hood. It's no speed demon but it runs and drives good. It originally had the Chevy 305.
Derick Smith the timing chains were known to stretch and slip. Hopefully they came out with hardened steel belts for them, and you have one. I had the 301 in my delta 88