Why Was This Turbo V8 T/A SO SLOW? - The 1980 Pontiac Turbo Trans Am
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- Опубликовано: 18 май 2024
- In this Rare Cars documentary, we are diving into the history of one of the most underappreciated and often forgotten Pontiac muscle cars of the 20th century, the 1980 - 1981 Turbo Trans am. This car seems to constantly get glossed over in the history books and it absolutely does not deserve to be as you will soon learn because it is one of the VERY few turbocharged V8 cars to ever roll out of an American automaker's factory.
Learn all there is to know about the 1980-1981 Pontiac Turbo Trans Am in episode 43 of our documentary series on the world's most fascinating cars.
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*Note, we are not historians. If you see an error in our research then please mention it in the comments!
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One of the best looking slow cars out there.
Yup Cool Looking but not even a Fast Car!
The crap gas of the time made them slow.
@@ErikDB6 Engine made them slow
@@thomasgentry6201Have an 80 301non turbo TA. The rear end gear ratio is what really makes it slow on the take off. Once you get going it's not too bad
@user-rv3cm7hv3l dude they have anemic performance it's not the gears making them slow it's the fact they don't have much power at all especially an na one.
F body Trans Am is one of the most beautiful cars of all time, every line and every angle is perfection!
Thanks to John De Lorean collaborating with Ferrari back in 1970 for that!
Wouldn’t go that far
Yessir, love of the best looking American cars anyhow. Personally, I think the 1995 Porsche 911 Turbo is the most beautiful car ever sculpted.
@@Adam-ub9nu You have great taste sir, it’s hard for me to argue that the 911 isn’t the most beautiful car ever designed!
@bparks_5095 Everyone is entitled to an opinion, even it it is stupid.
Regardless of whatever level of performance the Turbo T/A was capable of in stock form, I always thought those turbo boost indicator lights on the back of the hood scoop were pretty cool.
I mean you put $500 worth of 2024 turbos with a real intercooler would more than double or even triple the stock power.
@@fastinradfordablethis was a draw-through design. Compressor side of the turbo basically sat under the carburetor and on top of the intake manifold (utilizing a special plenum unique to these engines). No way to install an intercooler. I had a 1980 TTA in h.s. in the '90s. It was tired, I also wondered about high octane racing fuel or aviation fuel. There was a knock sensor in the valley on this engine, it seriously retarded timing and killed power at the slightest hint of any engine pinging or knock. 2 retired Pontiac engineers who worked on this in the 1970s talked at a car show about running water/methanol injection on test cars at Pontiac, but that didn't make it to production. Similar set-up to the early '60s Oldsmobile Jetfire, or like the man at TTA Performance now offers. That is one of the things the 301 Turbo desperately needed.
I was recently informed that I've inherited one of these. My friend from work bought it brand new. Tried to buy it from him for years. His wife informed me he passed and left me the car. When spring hits I'll go dig it out of the garage it hasn't left in 30 years. I vow to get it back on the road!
Sorry about your buddy. It'll be great to have it running again!!
Bad life choice
Rest in peace to your buddy. That's a gigachad move, right there.
That was very cool of your buddy.
I had a friend who passed years ago who did the same thing to me with a 65 Ford Fairlane.
I helped him build the 427CJ motor over a couple years as he bought the parts, he then bought the car and installed that engine.
That motor was extremely strong, traction bars, and decent rubber and it still just boiled the tires.
It was a daily driver, not a drag car, so that motor was a lot.
He closed the damn garage door and started that car over a woman breaking his heart.
I owned it about 4 years, but it was tough to drive because of how that all happened.
I knew a car guy and sold it to him, he did get all the interior, paint and body work done,
Should create a video and link us to we can see it, sorry for your loss
The first American Turbo V8 was the Oldsmobile Jetfire in 1962. And Buick turbocharged the 231 c.i. v6 in 1977 that was avalible in most of thier cars. They continued the Turbo V6 through 1987 in the Grand National.
I should have read the comments first I just said the same thing
And of course there was the Corvair...
And the 79 pace car was the Mustang with a turbo 2.3
And none of them - Buick 215 aluminum V8 turbo in an Olds, Corvair flat six turbo, Buick 231 V6 turbo, Ford Lima 2.3L turbo 4 cylinder - ever used in a Firebird (until the GNX engine used in the limited production 1989 20th Anniversary T/A nearly a decade later), which was kinda the point of the video.
4:16 I came here to say the same thing. The Oldsmobile turbo jet fire in 1962 and then the Corvair just a few months later both had turbo charged engines. The Corvair even kept the turbo up through the first year of the second generation in 1965. a little bit of cursory research could have prevented this error.
My cousin bought a new 1981 Bandit edition Trans Am 4.9L turbo. He still has it to this day with the numbers matching 4.9L engine in it, but it isn't slow anymore. In 2015 he did a complete body off restoration of the car back to completely stock looking but with a crap load more bite. All new updated suspension, all LED lights, touch screen infotainment screen and the cherry on top? The 4.9L was completely rebuilt sparing nothing, if memory serves he put 10k or 12k into it which included fuel injection a REAL computer controlled tunable turbo. He put it on a dyno after all the work was complete and it made 510 HP at the wheels. He still drives it as his primary daily driver to this day.
In my opinion, the F-body Trans Am was the best looking bodies of all time.
Bought a 1981 Turbo TA in the 90s. Those turbo 301 were not great and the original was blown with less than 60k miles. Swapped it for a 400 which I blew. Then swapped for a mild 455 which I’ve had 25 plus years. Perfect.
Sounds about right... those 301s were garbage...! My neighbor hated losing to my 79 Z28, so he did the same, swapped the turbo301 for a built 400 and I never beat him again with my Chevy 350cid...!!!
@@kurtisstutzman7056in 1979 the top engine was the W72 400 which would eat the 1979 Z28
@tomcherry7029 right...? I was talking about my neighbors 301 turbo, which is what caused him to swap to a built 400... Are you confused, or illiterate...?!?
I had a 301 non turbo, 4 barrel carb
160 hp was about what you got in 1980, it took Detroit a while to learn how to get power with emissions.
My 1980 formula yes was down on power but with my ws6 suspension it was still one of the best handing cars I ever owned
You couldn’t do that in California and still register it for public street use
Little known fact - the next gen Firebirds got the turbo style offset hood scoop because the turbo engine was planned to be available in them, then canceled just before production started.
My 1985 Bandit II Edition had a shaker hood
There were production turbo 3rd generation. Very rare.
that was a Buick 231 V6 turbo, not the 301 v8. 1989 - - fastest Trans Am ever up to that point.@@TokeyTheBear
cars will never get this beautiful again
No that they won't!!!! And that's just sad.
For the day, it was decent horsepower. The torque was great, considering the small engine. A stouter turbocharger and true blow through carburetor with a sealed turbo intake cap would've made a difference. The special 301 itself had some genuine hot rodding parts from the factory. Just needed more boost.
It honestly was the best idea for the day and not sticking with it is why the US car industry is years behind. Ford did it with the turbo 4 in the svo mustang too. Lighter cars and engines with smaller displacement and higher efficiency with great handling. Instead they slugged along defining insanity as they went trying the same thing expecting a different result. Kept using as big a motor as they can knowing with regulations and technology it couldn't do what they wanted. Kept doing it wondered why countries had superior technology. Probably because they actually kept a serious effort into things the US eventually did, except decades too late.
The setup was fine. The problem was the low octane gas of the era.
The 301 had terrible heads and couldn't breathe to save its life. It just wasn't a performance engine and Pontiac did the bare minimum to get the 301 to equal the power of the old smogged- out 400.
The turbo system was made to be compact and easy for mass production. Draw through carb, no intercooling, and awful manifolding conspired to limit what could've been a great send off for the marque.
The 301 was a turd all around. The crank had only 2 counterweights and wasn't stable. The mirrored port pattern used on so many American engines was used to facilitate Siamesed intake ports like on a stovebolt 6 or a mini or a tractor. This required a 301 specific intake manifold but they needed that anyway because the engine was a short deck. This means you can't even swap some higher compression heads from a 326 or 350 because an intake doesn't exist without fabrication to make it work together. One of the problems with Siamesed intake ports is that on a cross plane v8 there is no such firing order that treats all of the pairs equally and while 3 pairs mostly work independently excepts some residential vibrations there is always a pair the completely overlaps the intake strokes. The fuel will also prefer the edge cylinders because of its momentum through the turn. A v6 would have been lighter, made as much or better use of the small turbo and had more consistent fuel mixture across the cylinders. Being 1981 they would have had tbi fuel injection in the Chevy inventory which has ambient pressure reference on the in throttle body fuel pressure regulator. While not quite a cyclone or gnx a tbi setup on a 3.8 or even a more conventional Pontiac if they needed to exhibit brand pride like a 350 instead of an electronically metered q-jet would have ran circles around what they had. They kinda made up for things with the tta in 1989 but the 301 was a disaster.
@@BlackPill-pu4vi Except, the hottest street 301 around now, with a small cam and external bolt ons, is running 12.5s. The bottom end is taking 17 pounds of boost without issue. With decent gas at the time, it would have run in between the 403 and the W72.
I bought a 1980 Turbo TA back in 1989, and blew the head gasket trying to get more boost out of it. Not fast by todays standards but it was a fun car.
those 301s had very thin casting walls, its why they cracked & blew so easily
😅 funny seeing ya comment hear crazy how fast cars are today stock
This is a serious question...it wasnt in Virginia was it? I had a 1980 turbo ta and sold it to a guy around 1989 who blew a head gasket. Probably coincidence but just wondering...
That was my first question - could they handle more boost. Guess this answers that haha
301 motors were crap to begin with. Most people ended up dropping in a SB chevy...
I had a 81 turbo. It always turned a lot of heads. One I definitely regret selling.
What did you buy directly after?
It made the cover of Hot Rod. September 1979? Anyway, I still remember one of the captions under a picture in the magazine. “The Turbo Trans Am will still smoke the tires. However, water is now required!” 🤣
Girl I dated had an 81.... It was a fun car to drive... The handling was still like the car was on rails....
Mechanic here.
I unfortunately haven't had the fortune of driving a turbo 301, but I *have* driven the N/A 301 and it was the most limp, slowest 70's muscle car I've ever driven. It's such a shame that the Pontiac V8 died out with a wimper.
It is, the 455 TA would have been the one to end it on
It didn't die out, it was killed off.
The Poncho 400 was not a big block. Also, Pontiac did NOT just "slap" a turbo on their 301. Very few parts were interchangeable between the 301 N/A and 301 turbo. Also, the 3rd gen was supposed to get the 301 turbo. That is why they had the turbo buldge. The corporate bean counters killed that idea. The 301 turbo would have been awesome in the lighter 3rd gen Firebirds.
Especially with EFI, 3.75 crank, better intake/heads, 342 rear end and 200-4R or Richmond 5-spd.
All the pontiacs from 326-455 had the same block the inside dimensions where changed no "big block". Except the 301 low deck motor. The buick GN started in 79 around the same time as the 301 turbo and had a simular turbo setup and you see what happened later on. If the 301 turbo would have continued it would have been a power house. GM cut it because they didnt want the trans am to overshadow the Corvette.
I sold my Trans Am almost 20 years ago, and I still miss that car to this day.
I work with a lot of former Trans Am owners and every one of them miss it and wish they still had it...
It SUCKS to be you
Dont miss the trailer park, though.
So people can spend more time admiring how cool it is as you roll by
I bought a 1980 around 1990 in great condition. It is one of the best handling cars I have owned. In stock form the car really stuck to the road. I lIved the instrument panel with red lights from the factory. Most cars through the late 70's and 80's didnt even have a tachometer, so after driving mom & dads cars for a few years looking at the gauges while driving was exciting in itself. 80's sports cars would fall behind me on winding back roads. It was far from the slowest car in 1980, and out handled most of them. I wrecked it shortly after I more than doubled the horsepower with a built 400 big block. I tried driving it like it had 200 horsepower. I learned then how fun it was to drive a slow car fast. Im not againt gettinv another someday. I still have the turbo and carb, but the intake got lost after the swap. I will always love these cars. The Bandit hooked me as a child.
Amazing, you must have driven some serious boats 🚢 if you found them great handling 👍 😮
@@ianmangham4570I own a 1980 Turbo T/A with a big cam 350 sbc. These cars handle great for what they are. You obviously must have never driven a 2nd gen F body in your life if you think it’s a boat. These cars barely fit 2 people. Just because it’s a muscle car doesn’t make it a boat😮🤡
@@ianmangham4570 I've had 5 of them over 40 years, and the WS6 was one of the best handling cars ever.. You will run out of guts in the corners before the Trans Am will...
@@lonmcq7317 Lmno ,gen flake 🤠👌
@lonmcq7317 You've had a half dozen of everything I'll bet,now get off ya horse 🐎 and drink ya milk 🥛, happy 😊 thanksgiving PILGRIM! 🤠🙏
This car might have been slow, but it was damned good looking!
My dad had one of these back in the 80s. He quite like it, but the biggest problem with it was the fact that it had no intercooler, which was basically unheard of at the time, so it ran quite hot.
Oh don't blame Pontiac, the intercooler was also unheard of at Ford and Buick. (BTW, the intercooler does not affect the running temperature of the engine... It only cools the combustion air for better performance.)
It is a shame. Those cars, and the Camaros of the day had THE look. I am saying that, and I am a MOPAR guy. These were the last of the beautiful cars until the retro craze hit the market in the 2000s.
After this, they turned them all into pie wedges in the late 80s and then bubbles in the 90s.
But what the government did to the performance, man that was borderline criminal.
These were great looking cars, but how can you not like a 1989 TransAm Turbo?...or a 1988 TransAm GTA?...Or a 1985 Camaro IROC?...they were all great looking cars too.
@@gdb5448 All of the above die by comparison. I was born in 1970. So the first Camaros and Firebirds I knew were the 70s models. When you start with that look as your standard, the next generations of both were just ugly. Maybe, if they were not held to the standards of those that came before them, they would be alright. But that is just not the case, brother.
@kennedymcgovern5413 it's ironic I think these are cool but the 2nd gen cars aren't that great. A 2002 ram air trans am looks better coming from a Ford guy but hey looks are subjective I guess.
@@midnight347 Oh, looks and beauty are absolutely subjective. I don't know of anything that is more subjective. You like what you like. That's why they made so many different cars, brother.
When government touches anything, they will screw it up. Period.
Oldsmobile had a turbocharged V8 available on the 1962 and 1963 F85 and Cutlass. It displaced 3.5 liters or 215 cubic inches. It also had an aluminum block and heads. Buick produced a similar engine w/o a turbocharger. The Oldsmobile version had more head bolts and extra material to strengthen the engine. Pontiac was allowed to use the Buick version in there Tempest and Lemans series although most of those used the 1961-1963 Trophy 4 cylinder which was essentially a 389 V8 with the drivers cylinder bank lopped off.
Over at Chevrolet the Corvair was also available with a turbocharged flat 6. Those were the first turbocharged cars built and Oldsmobile had the first turbocharged V8. If you are going to make a claim in your video, make sure you research it first because if you are wrong, someone like me will call you out on it.
Yeah dammit, someone like this will call you out! 😂
I may as well add the fact that neither the 403 Olds nor the 400 Pontiac were big-block engines... Pontiac did not even have that distinction, as all their V8s from at least the 326 to the 455 were the same block.
Glad to hear that someone knows about the turbo Oldsmobile 3.5, very few of us know of its existence.
Oh, BTW, the turbo 215 was not "available" on the original four models of the F-85 and Cutlass, it was only in the 5th bespoke model, the Jetfire...
It had another first: decades before diesel exhaust fluid, owners were required to refill a tank under the hood with Turbo Rocket Fluid... Without knock sensors, the engine required alcohol-water injection to quell detonation. Alas, the typical American buyer wasn't willing to deal with that.
This was my first ‘favorite car.’ I was 6, in ‘80. Still love the look of this car.
I drove a 1979 T/A recently, forgot how much cars of this era rattled. Sadly, my kids Honda accord could blow its doors off.
The 2.0 turbo Accord does 0-60 in only 5.8 seconds. Doesn't have the sound or feel of a V8, but they are fast.
Would love to see one today with modern bolt ons, engine management etc.
Agreed, I would think it could make around 450hp with a slightly larger turbo and EMS
Check out TTA Performance.
RUclips it. You'll love it
@@laserbeam1620 thanks for the tip!
I owned a 1979 Firebird Esprit with the NA 301 and a 1981 Turbo TA at the same time. This was around 2003. These are cars that nobody really talks about, it was interesting to see the changes Pontiac made to the 301 for the turbo. Also, having owned both those cars simultaneously I can tell you the Turbo did feel faster when you punched it, but it still wouldn't win any races. The TA was also much stiffer and handled much better than the Esprit. My daily at that time was a 1997 Accord. When switching from the Honda to the Pontiac I had to make sure to stop much further back at stop signs and lights, that Pontiac front end was probably twice as long and would stick out into traffic if I pulled up the the stop like I would in the Accord.
I still have my 80/81 Turbo Trans Am pedal car from when I was a kid. Has the hood bulge and turbo 4.9 stickers still too.
I bought one a few years ago thought it was gonna be so cool looks good but absolutely godless
Yeah these do look great at least, I used to dislike the 79-81 cars but over the years they have grown on me
My dad kept blowing up Pontiac motors and got sick of them. So, he dropped a 355 Chevy Nascar block and 671 blower in a '75 Firebird. 700hp later in the early 90's in a non tubbed '75 Trans Am was hilariously impracticable, scary, and insanely fun. Anytime we were at an intersection and he turned up the timing dial, I knew I was in for a 5 second treat.
Now that must have been a riot, the 74-75 TAs are my favorite bodystyle
I first received a 1979 Z28 with 4sp. 3:5 rear screaming in the highway ten years old then. The high octane gas did it's magic in that feisty baby. Particularly Shell.
I owned a 78 with a 400 and a turbo 301 80 as a teenager. The 80 wasnt as fast but both were chick magnets!
I can only imagine lol
U funny 😂, chick.
Decades ago I owned a 1977 Pontiac LeMans Sport Coupe with a n/a 301 Pontiac V8. That engine was a boat anchor. To climb a moderate hill, it required a running start and it slowed down as it climbed. I wished it had a turbo 301, or a 400, because the car handled great with it's "Radial Tuned Suspension".
I have an 81 Pace Car, the OG engine, turbo hood and paint was gone by the time I got it. It now has a mild 400 along with the shaker hood.
I had a 256 rear gear in my 77 Nova with a 350 and turbo 350 trans.
I loved that rear gear.
1st gear allowed me to get above the posted 55MPH highway speed before merging.
60 mph in 3rd was right near 2100 rpm.
I could easily flatline the speedo in second.
That rear gear took full advantage of the torque.
Any time you swap in shorter gears, or a 6-speed, it's worth asking if that adds an extra shift to get to 60mph and/or the end of the quarter mile. I owned a Mustang with 3.27 gears and a 5-speed that would just barely hit the rev limiter at the end of a good quarter-mile pass, in third gear. Other people would drop in 4.11s and maybe a Tremec T-56 transmission, but I thought that was a mistake. That adds a shift to your quarter-mile runs.
@jameswilkinson6678 Correct.
I believe a top fuel dragster use a 256 or something to that effect.
That's how they are getting to 300+MPH and not one gear shift.
I also had that gear in a 1978 Caprice. Even with a built 327, it was slow off the line.
But it would go a couple of hundred miles on a tank of gas highway.
@karrpilot7092 I'm not sure the actual HP on that old car.
But a hard launch would produce tons of smoke then the second gear shift would send it sideways.
For me..0 to 60+ MPH in 1st gear didn't take long if it hooked up.
'79 to '81 "four eyes" has the most awesome looking front end. meaner looking than the '77-'78
You still had choking emissions and turbo, fuel injection, and computer control was at least a decade away so it's easy to see how it happened. Would be awesome to get one of those cars now and modernize it with a 500 hp fuel injected turbo with adjustable waste gates.
Great video.
The shots with the shaker hoods weren't turbos, right?
Right, all 80 and 81 turbo t/a and Formulas had that special hood (I had one😁). FYI...not all cars had the decals, you could order the turbo t/a (like the t/a) and not spend the $$$ for the decals on the hood. And the formula never got the huge hood bird. And, some of them don't have the 3 lights and "turbo charge" emblem. I believe that was the earlier 1980 models , and that they started put that on cars after the 1980 model year run had started
Owned a 1980 turbo Trans Am. It had unbelievable turbo lag. Worst part was turbo would spool up and if you had to hit brakes it would keep accelerating. Easy to get away from you. Lights on hood scoop were cool.
My very first car in the late 80s was a Buick that someone had transplanted a rebuilt Pontiac 301 into lol. Naturally aspirated version of course.
What a complete DOG. That motor couldn't get out of it's own way. Might as well have been a 2.5 four-banger lol.
Pontiac did not have a big block, or small block, there was simply a V8 Pontiac block across displacements.
That black custom wide body at the end of the video is gorgeous.
The Oldsmobile jetfire had a turbocharged V8 petrol engine in 1962.
215bhp was pretty decent for a 3.5 Litre V8 especially in 1962.
If Pontiac made the shift to fuel injection for that V8, they probably could have gotten a lot more performance while still remaining emissions compliant...as was said in the parting shot of the turbocharge V6 that Buick had in their Grand National
1980 Pontiac Firebird Formula!!! The 1ST Car I ever Wanted was the 1ST CAR I ever HAD!!!! I Still Miss My Baby😪 She was called in the street 'The Body Snatcher'!!! She was BEAUTIFUL, T-Tops and ALL!!!
It may have been slow but it was one of the best looking cars ever made.
I do love the way it looks!
I had the Indy Pace car edition. Beautiful car. The white exterior and interior had the fire bird stitched into the rear seat and door panels that matched the hood. The red dash was also cool.
I still have my 1980 Trans Am that I bought in 1981. It came with the TA 4.9 (301) with the crap Metric 200 auto transmission. The tranny shot craps after 5 years, so being a young motor head I replaced the motor with a .090 over bored 428 Pontiac motor with a race built Turbo 400. Now it is a true muscle car.
Hopeully this video spreads some more knowledge of these cars. Recently one was up for auction and featured in some viral clip. The host correctly identifies the "boost gauge" and screaming chicken hood sticker but because it sounds so ridiculous to younger people they rip on her thinking she's making it all up. There were a lot of unique things automakers tried in the 70s and 80s that they couldnt get away with now and its forgotten to time.
I remember I was on a test drive in a new 1984 Mustang SVO. A Turbo V8 Trans Am pulled alongside and wanted to race. The Four Cylinder Turbo SMOKED the TransAm. It was why I bought the Mustang! LOL
funny that T/A is worth twice as much as that SVO now
@@SquirminHermanthe1eyedGerman Especially after I was clipped on PCH by a 71 Porsche 911S. We were racing from Muir Woods to Stinson Beach (so twisty you don't really get out of second gear). Just before you get into Stinson Beach, there is a bay with a sharp hairpin. The Porsche lost it (back end of course), clipped me, and sent me down the mountainside. All I cared about was not being in my car IN Great White Infested Waters (just inland from Farallon Islands GW breeding grounds). Stopped about fifty feet short of getting wet (except my underwear ;-)
@@mikemcchesney2555 lol thats a great story & glad you made it out ok! I had a few Trans Ams over the past 40+ yrs, my favorite was the '88 black/black Ttop GTA which was fast but my '98 black/black Ttop LS1 6sp was a beast! Also had an '85 Bandit II Edition, '83 Recaro Edition & '76 400 4sp! Did my share of racing around north Georgia & I grew up around the area where Smokey & the Bandit was filmed & got to see some of it the summer of '76 when I was 12
@@SquirminHermanthe1eyedGerman Of all the cars and trucks I've had in 60 years, the one I never had and wanted was a nice 77-78 T/A in Black with a golden buzzard on the hood.
@@mikemcchesney2555 You might can find you one as a project but you have to have a bank roll nowadays to afford one
The 3 speed auto trans was a major contributor. I had a late 70’s bird and it was stupid slow. At highway speed the RPMs were screaming
Feeling like Burt Reynolds is important.
I'm the 70s he was the man. He went downhill after he married Loni Anderson.
Burt Reynolds is dead, he doesn't feel anything.
I had a 1980 Pontiac Trans Am Indy turbo pace car in 1988 when I was 18. It was slow as f ck. I blew the rod out the oil pan and had to rebuild it. The cast crankshaft has no counter weights on it. You heard me right. The valves were as small as a bottle cap. And the turbo only made 7.5 pounds of boost, not 9. It had no intercooler, and the temp under the hood on a hot summer July day was hot f ck from the 2 exhaust pipes wrapped around the eng with the turbo slapped on top. I woke up one morning after a night of drinking, went out, started the car, and started driving home. It had a bad misfire. I beat on it so hard o rod broke and went through the oil pan just below the block. So most of the oil stayed in it and I was able to drive it home. Craziest shit I've ever seen. So I rebuilt the engine and learned what a stinking pile of engineering crap it was. The no counter weights on the crankshaft still blows my mind. That some hack shit Pontiac put out.
I had a 1979 Trans Am with 6.6 litre and i was clocked at 220 mph. So whomever says that the 79' was slow has never ridden in one before. Their fast and handle like a dream. Ive outrun so many cops in my younger years. It never once let me down. Best damn car I've ever owned. Can't wait to buy another one.
Early in the video you mention the 400 Pontiac “Big Block”. Pontiac only had one block size with various displacements. Chevy had big and small blocks
It's about time that someone knows there shit about big blocks ,small blocks and single block castng size. Everyone else take note.
It's just semantics if it's less than say 370 call it small, if more than 370 ci. Call it big. Ci. Makes HP not block size
@@rogerdodrill4733 But Chevy had a 400 small block and a 396 big block thus the conundrum. As people new to the hobby may look to this video, I just think that proper terminology is warranted. I’m not nit picking a good show, just pointing out something that might deserve adjustment.
Did anyone mention that the 403 Olds was available in ‘80 in the Trans Am? 180hp and actually fun to drive
Great vid!!!! 👍👍
How they managed to get so low power from a turbocharged V8, is mindblowing... to avoid higher numbers, engineers had to work hard.
GREAT VIDEO MAN!
The 1980 Turbo TA used in Smokey and the Bandit part 2 had to be modified with nitrous by the production crew to get any kind of performance out of it
It was always amazing how US engineers of this era managed to get such shockingly low power and torque from such big engines.
Found a 4600 mi turbo ta in 1996 for $1100. Was in a mild off road excursion and bent frame. Was technically driveable. Super super clean.
I have a 79 ta with a 455
Nice toy
My first car. I bought it in late 86 at the beginning of my senior year. Black, black ltd edition velour interior, t-tops, ws6 suspension with 4 wheel disc brakes and wider wheels. I sold at the behest of my first wife in 93. Dumb move. Slow, but handled well and was just plain fun.
I liked the idea comment “a lot more could go wrong “ which it did before even leaving the factory. My father worked in AGR for Pontiac in Norwood Ohio. He said that they would be lined up sided by sided out of the pit and to exit door waiting for repair.
Bought a turbo Trans Am from a buddy when I was in the military in the late 80's. The engine was junk but the car was cool. Pulled it and put in a 455. Car was a beast after that.
My all time Favorite Car❤❤
Pontiac should have gotten Gale Banks to help. Banks and Ken Detweiler worked with GM on the Buick turbo cars.
A twin turbo 301 may have produced a lot of power.
So the cars were slow, they still look cool as hell!!
And 3.08 gears are awesome on the highway since this was before we had over drive transmissions.
The three speed automatic meant we had to compromise on the pumpkin gears. You either got acceleration or relaxed highway cruising, but not both.
@@danmarjenka6361 74 Camaro th350 transmission small stall converter, I had 3.73 gears and they are awesome. And it sounded like a nascar at 6500 down the highway(that’s 145). Now my 92 Silverado with a decent 9.7:1 350, 5 speed and 3.08 gears. It’s moves good for a 4400 pound truck, cruises at 120 and I don’t even need 5th gear. The newer automatics have 8 speeds, and 10 speeds, close ratios. We even have 6 speed manual transmissions today. You can either spend a lot on an over drive or spend more money on making horsepower.
@@DavidB7474 I agree. I had a 1985 F-150 with a stock 302, 2 barrel, and a 5-speed but it had really low gears in the pumpkin. That thing accelerated like a big block. The transmissions available today make cars and trucks more livable and also fast.
The 3rd Gen was supposed to continue developing the Pontiac turbo v8. That’s why the early 3rd gens had the turbo bulge in the hood. GM made them use the SBC at the last minute
I did not know that, thank you for sharing that!
Awesome looking car. I had a 74 t/a with a 455 4sp. I went to buy one of these it was beautiful. I drove it. What a dog. I passed
😂. It's hard to accept anything after tasting Big Block that is Controlled with someone's lucky Left leg
There is no substitute for cubic inches.
I had a 1969 Chevelle with a 1959 283 with a 2bbl,3 on the tree and 3.08 gears. I gapped one of those turbo 301 trans ams. I mean car lengths in the 1/4 mile.
I am a Ford guy but the 77 Trans Am is my favorite car.
Back in mid 80's I had an 81 Turbo Trans-Am. The 81 models were rated at 210 horsepower and the 80 models were rated 190. When things were right my 81 was a fun car that had decent power and handling. Previously I had a 78 Regal Turbo. My 81 T/A Turbo was a POS. I was constantly fixing issues. Door hinges, A/C leaking, Power window issues. Then things went from bad to worse. My 81 was afflicted with "soft" camshafts. I had to have the camshaft replaced. The dealer messed up the installation of the cam and damaged the cam bearings, causing low oil pressure. The engine had to be pulled and new cam, rod, and main bearings installed. 3 days after the engine was reinstalled, the oil pump driveshaft sheared off and I was stranded on the freeway 60 miles from home. The car was towed, repaired again. A week later an electrical fault burned the car. What a nightmare that car was.
I had a 1980 Ford Fairmount Durango. It was supposed to be a ranchero replacement as it was lighter, and smaller engines for emissions and better fuel economy. It was one of somewhere between 212 to 350 ever made.
I also had a 1981, I think it was like 210hp , but if I remember it was the first production air cooled turbo lasting about 70/80k miles , but I went with a 383 stroker motor with 10:75 -1 ratio if I got that right.
Also had gotten a 455sd motor out of a junk yard in Freeport long island, my friend worked there and found it on a top shelf, I think I paid 200$ for it , it was machined at SK speed shop , but unfortunately it was more of a pipe dream , I ended up selling it un assembled like 30 years ago. A lot of memories with that car .
I worked for Pontiac from 1978 through the beginning of 1981. The turbo Trans Am formula were an abysmal failure. I had a formula company car in 1980 and turned the car back in quickly.
I swapped it in for a used formula with a 400 4 speed. (Great car!)
The only thing that could be said about the turbo was there was maybe slightly less weight over the front wheels. The turbo lag was obnoxiously long and this is a car that I turned in with less than 4000 miles on it.
Pontiac couldn’t give me one of those cars!
It was a shame from there until modern computers brought the horsepower back…
Pontiac 400s sold in 1979 were, I believe, stocked up 1977 and 1978 blocks. Once sold out, that was the end for the 400.
That is correct
And only available with 4 speed manual, if you wanted automatic you got the 403 Olds
1978 was the last casting year of the traditional PMD v8.
4:00 The comment about turbos not being done mainstream before is only true for v8s. The Corvair Spyder had a mass produced turbo 6 cyl in the 1960s.
I had a 76 Formula Firebird with a 400 SB. It ran mid-13's 1/4 timed bone stock engine with a bit of carb tuning and a swapped 350 to 400 turbo trans. The engine ran rather warm being shoehorned in a bit, so turbos probably added little to no power. Also, as you mentioned, premium gas wasn't always available.
I like mine. 76 Formula 400. Cam, headers and big exhaust. Runs good.!
@@DayRider76 Nice. I lost mine when someone ran a red light, broad sided it and kept going. I bought it back in the mid-90s for $5,000 with less than 40k on the odometer.
@@ELXABER I just pulled mine in for the biyearly overhaul!!! Sorry for your loss bud, that sucks.
i had a 1974 455sd and when that engine came on cam at 90 mph it was like a turbo had cut in. it only got 10 mpg. just about bankrupted me. but it was fun.
Good video. I read somewhere that Pontiac was actually considering a 2nd gen version of the turbo 301 for the 82 Firebird redesign. It would have had EFI. If Pontiac would have stayed with the development through the 80s that could have been quite the performer as technology caught up. Alas they instead went with Chevy engines.
The best engineering for the day, does not say much for engineering of the time.
i wouldn't care how slow they are, just to own one would be a complete joy, Old cars are Beautiful, every old car needs saving, like us, once they're gone they're gone forever.
Not quite, cars can be rebuilt, not u
@@rogerdodrill4733 True man, life is not funny.
I didn’t even realize these existed until this summer. I saw a rusty white one with hood scoop that said turbo 4.9 on the side at the local beer store and googled it when I got home. I’ve seen it one more time since but I’m still unsure who owns it.
Edit: I still wasn’t aware the scoop was offset until this video.
The 1978-83 production turbos from GM were hamstrung by sucking air through carburetors and were without intercoolers. Thing began to change in 1984 when the turbos (used in Buicks by this time) were paired with sequential fuel injection. Two years later, the momentum was continued by adding an intercooler which made the Grand National and GNX legends of the day. This version of the engine found its way into the 1989 Turbo Trans-Am which was light-years ahead of the early 80's T/A turbos in terms of performance. Electronic port fuel injection played an outsized role in ending the malaise era.
Very cool video. One note about the “C” word engine commentary. The only way to get four speed was with a 305 CID Chevrolet in a 49 state car. This car had a 3:42 rear gear to make up for lack of power. This was the best handling version of the T/A because of availability of WS6 package and lightweight SBC.
as Jim Campisano stated - It turbocharged a V8 and still couldn't find any horsepower. A near 4000 pound curb weight (100 pounds of which had to be the hood decal) and 3.08 gears made this vehicle into lunch meat for any 318 powered Mopar taxi cab.
I have a 78 L82 4spd Vette. I wanted one since 78. I also wanted an 80 or 81 Trans Am. Never got one, and now the prices prevent it.
My roommate in college had one and I had an ‘82 Z28. It was a great looking car but had horrible turbo lag. Handling was good though.
Great video, I learned so much, I always wondered what changes the 301 (really a 302 but Pontiac didn't want to upset Ford) went through in preparation for the Turbo. The low octane gas makes sense, yes, the 308:1 was for fuel economy.
A friend of my Uncle's has an 80, white with charcoal two tone and my dad and stepdad both started at GM Oshawa in '79.
I wonder if anyone who has one now installed a 373 posi and a four speed?
Yeah they did put a pretty decent amount of work into turbo ready-ing these 301s, with a modern EFI setup and a newer larger turbo I am sure 450hp is very doable given displacement + the forced induction
@@rarecars3336 From what I've seen, it definitely is.
Joe at tta performance is around 350hp at the wheels I believe. He has a youtube channel with a bunch of cool info on these cars
@@carsonp8110 Thanks, I'll check him out.
I had a 79 301. A buddy got a turbo that lasted about 3 weeks. Blew it up trying to race me after I put a 455 in mine
most 2 door coupes and fastbacks lacked enough weight distribution to the rear wheels and had lousy traction. Even the mid size sedans also had poor traction and were dogs when trying to make a hard launch. I had a 1984 305 Caprice Estate wagon that did wheelies after a few mods. I also kept all the emissions control properly connected. The only things I changed was an upgraded camshaft and I slightly altered the 4 barrel secondary throttle opening and fattened the secondary fuel mixture to increase the top speed. The quadrajet only bogs out from leaning out after increasing the air volume. I was able to put thinner fuel metering rods into the secondaries to compensate for the added airflow volume. The wagon had a 3.42 gear ratio. the 3.08 gearing is mostly used in police vehicles as well as Corvettes. I'm probably one of a rare few people who know how to fully tune most GM V8s. Most experienced mechanics were mostly into Ford and mopars. Whenever they worked on a General Motors vehicle, they would go backwards on the whole tuneup once they loosened the distributor to set the timing. For the past 30+ years, I've picked up lots of non running chevies for next to no cost. I would have it running and roadworthy immediately after I got it registered. I can count the total value of every vehicle I've owned since I was a teenager all within a few grand. One car was given to me as a freebie. One I only paid $15 for. I took an old rusty crewcab square body for $0. another Oldsmobile for $150. An ex police car for $1000. A chevy van for $1800. And 2 motorhomes at $1200 and $3000. I'm now in my late 40's. I paid less money for vehicles than paying rent!!
I owned an ‘81 T/A 301 turbo exactly like the one @1:00, I had better exhaust and a Hurst slap shift in it but she was still pretty dickless.
Nonetheless I loved that car and if I were thinking better at the time I’d never have sold it. Body & frame were perfect, all I’d have done was updated everything else and tossed a warmed over LS in there
Firebirds are my favorite body style. Owned a 78 T/A and an 87 T/A. The 79-81's fronts clips never looked right to me.
I had the '70's "Smoky" Trans Am. 454 cu in. It got 11 mpg!
smiles per gallon are more important than miles per gallon!
"Smokey & the Bandit" was the 2nd highest grossing film of 1977. A broadly popular film, not a "cult classic" which is niche.
I had a friend with a white turbo 81 Trans Am and another with a Citation X11. They dragged one night. I think they’re almost to the finish line, now. The TA was sharp though.
My 76 Formula still has the stock 400 bottom end. Big cam, headers and big exhaust. With the 7.6-1 compression, it runs it's best on the lowest octane possible. I see a little power loss and poor fuel economy on higher octane. People think I should bump it up? But why fix it if it's not broke. I love how it runs. Not the fastest car off the line, but loves to stretch its legs.
My friend had a turbo 301, it was slooooow
Yeah...sadly, it could have been so much more..
Yeah not too fast they really did the car dirty with the long rear gears, 3 speed auto, and the finicky turbo setup that liked to run terribly lol. Lots of unused potential
I was gonna say a friends dad had one in 1990. It had under 10k miles and his dad let him drive it to school once or twice a year. It was painfully slow but a nice looking car. Like we used to say it wouldn't pull a greasy string out of rats a**.