How can Danielle add anything as a untrained meatbag As a Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do from 1980 to 1998.. Ranked as Master or 4th degree Very little in cobra kai is Tang soo do Some terms sounded similar.. But everything else was nothing that was shown that I learned and trained people in. However, I also added in a lot of stuff from other martial arts I was learning in the 80s. From 1980 to 86 I learned 7 martial arts. Ranked in 2..the 4 kung fu systems I was learning were free and rank wasn't needed We never fought as rigid as they do in karate kid or cobra kai None of that would work and I would put money on that I fought in real full contact tournaments from the fall of 1980 to the end of 1995 That garbage shown would get you hurt. At 55 I still can handle Danielle and Johnny 5. Get them into a mma cage.. Specially Danielle aka Raplh Macchio... I want him to use that BS against me.. Not fair for him now on my 8th and 9th martial art. Ugh...
A major thing that people have to take into account regarding why there is likely so many contradictions between the first three movies and the Swank movie and the show is that Robert Mark Kamen was not a part of the latter two. He didn't write the screenplay for the Swank movie and isn't a writer on the show. Though the new writers are trying to maintain Kamen's original concept regarding the franchise and characters...they are going to add their own "ideas to it. And with him not there the choreographers are as well. That's why in the Swank movie she's performing Nianchi Sahm Dan a kata from Pat Johnson's style instead of a goju-ryu one. And in the show, Hiro Koda added kushanku from his style. I do want to mention that yoshukai (Koda's art) does include sanchin which is considered the heart and soul of goju-ryu. As well as seisan which is found tang soo do, shotokan (hangetsu), shorin-ryu, shito-ryu...basically any art that can trace its roots back to Okinawa.
Something else to consider is that Miyagi, Sato, and Yukie's generation of Okinawans would have spoken "Uchināguchi", as a first language, not Japanese. In Karate Kid 2, we hear Miyagi's dying father speaking Japanese, but being a generation older than Miyagi, he would have most likely spoken to "everyone" in Uchināguchi. Kimiko and Chozen were part of a younger generation of Okinawans who learned to read, write, and speak in "mainland Japanese" in Okinawan schools.
It wasn't shodan it was sandan the third one in the series. Specifically the version found in American tang soo do and shito-ryu that doesn't include the double blocking movement that you also see at the beginning of Heian/Pinan Sandan.
The picture on 5:22 is Aragaki Seisho I think. That is the drawing I found under his name. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arakaki_Seishō He was a teacher to both Chojun Miyagi (Goju) and Kenwa Mabuni (Shito).
To me the Miyagi Do Karate style looks more like Shito Ryu Karate than Goju Ryu Karate. Note Genwa Mabuni the founder of Shito Ryu and Miyagi Chojun the founder of Goju Ryu studied under the same Sensei. Both styles share a lot of similarities in kata and kihon. Shito Ryu on one hand has the crane technique which Goju Ryu doesn't have.
What's amazing to me with the katas. If these techniques are used to write they can win a fight before it even starts and it is very true in real life as well
Oh no joke. I have a ton of respect and admiration for Jesse, what he does and the knowledge he brings. Geeking out over the Karate Kid is one of my favorite things to do. I watch the movies pretty much almost every month and we have a LOT more to look at in future videos. (I just need to spread them out a bit lol).
@@ArtofOneDojo coba kai is the martial arts series i have always wanted and at the same time the karate kid sequel i never knew i wanted! And Jesse is the man i dont think theres much he cant figure out. Maybe someday ill get to meet both u guys at a seminar!
Not "mostly" but ALL about Kung Fu lol they only put Karate Kid because of the World market is more familiar with that name and they wanted to take advantage. BTW, in China they Did called "The Kung Fu Kid" which is the real name of that movie. "Never Back Down" is also a Karate Kid kind of movie but with MMA instead of Karate.
Well if they were gonna put in the title "The Karate Kid" then I believe that this movie should've took place in Japan, where the main protagonist would learn a stronger kind of Karate like Kyokushin or any style of Karate with a japanese master of them.
I accept you as the one only true and right authority on all things Karate Kid and Cobra Kai. Honestly though, if you recommend another channel I'll give it a look. That's high praise.
I honestly can't get enough of it. I watch the Karate kid at least one a month, most of the time every week I'll watch my favorite select scenes. They pump me up and help me get focused for the day. I love the whole Trilogy, even Part 3 which is a lot weaker of a movie but still has some of my favorite moments. I do NOT like The Next Karate Kid at all for various reasons I will talk about in a future episode, and I did not care for the Jaden Smith version. Also for various reasons but it felt like a half effort. I absolutely love Cobra Kai and think that is the best possible sequel we could have gotten. My wife and I even went to a special showing in 2018 at a movie theater event in which they premiered the first two episodes and the original Karate Kid movie. Watching that on the big screen took me RIGHT back to 1984 and was a magical experience :)
@@ArtofOneDojo Since I was teaching Kung Fu when the Jaden Smith movie came out, after I saw it, I was very upset that they didn't call it "The Kung Fu Kid." He didn't learn ANY Karate in it. In fairness, it was more like contemporary Wushu than the Kung Fu I learned, but that's not Karate either. If they're going to be wrong, they could have at least thrown me some free advertising in the meantime, right? Plus the whole thing with the snake and hypnotising the opponent was just awkward. No face was cool though. And I liked Jaden explaining Jackie Chan's fight with the other kids later. "You beat them up, or let them beat each other up, or... umm..." But other than a very few small highlights like that, there's a reason it was never on my list to collect.
@@ShaunCKennedyAuthor You have touched on one of the issues I take it with it. I followed this closely when it was coming out and I could tell Sony was dropping the ball right away. Will Smith wanted to remake it, and I remember reading an interview where he said he really liked the story and wanted to present it to a new generation but he DIDN'T want to call it "The Karate Kid" because even HE said it was Kung Fu and not Karate. He also said he did not want it called "The Kung Fu Kid" either. What did Sony do? They immediately released posters that said "The Kung Fu Kid". I actually saw some of them but they are hard to find now, very rare. I thought "whatever". Then shortly after that, they announced they were going to call it "The Karate Kid" afterall. You know it was just for brand recognition and they did NOT care that it was Kung Fu. Do you remember the insulting way they addressed that in the movie? It was when his Mom asked him how he like's Karate and he says "It's not Karate Mom, it's Kung Fu", and she says "Karate, Kung Fu, whatever." THAT was upsetting. That was Sony clearly not caring and going right for the cash grab. My other issue is...it's almost the exact same film. They took the script of the original, made TINY tweaks and dumped it in China. I saw the movie one time...and can you believe I was able to talk WITH the characters quoting almost every line all the way through on my first watch? The dialogue is about 80% the same. No chemistry between characters, the Chinese bullies and their coach have ZERO character development or personalities, and changing the romance from teenagers to middle schoolers felt uncomfortable...especially when Jackie Chan had to fight a bunch of 12 year olds. The whole movie just did not understand what it needed to be and was nothing more than Sony cashing in on the Karate Kid name. I LOVE that the original series has come back and made it forgettable Okay, I'm stepping off the soapbox now :D
Kenwa Mabuni the founder of shito-ryu studied under Chojun Miyagi's teacher, Kanryo Higaonna (Naha-te) as well as Anko Itosu (Shuri-te) and several other masters. So they were pretty open to exchanging knowledge back then.
I always thought the style of Miyagi was just a fictional style based on mainly Goju Ryu and some Shito-Ryu (from my limited understanding, the instructor for Pat Morita and Ralph Macchiato was a Shito-Ryu specialist) **pardon any spelling mistakes lol.
Love it. Totally love Sensei Jesse. Would add that Miyagi family not practicing a specific style and Okinawa being a small island, the Miyagi family may be primarily influenced by Goju Ryu, but may have picked up other kata and training methods from other Okinawan Karate masters/students. Possibly like Kenwa Mabuni who loved kata and incorporated as many kata as possible in Shito Ryu
It's funny, I thought just recently that that Kata Robbie and Sam were doing was Kosukun, but I kind of remembered you mentioning in the Kata video, so...probably I missed the chance to beat popular youtubers! 😅
Well Sensei Dan I ascribe to your theory best, after all what Sensei Jesse fails to realise, is that many people associated with the Karate Kid films, have given interviews to various RUclips bloggers. Of which many did confirm that the styles based off in the film, are indeed Goju-Ryu Karate, as well as Tang Soo Do! It is good that he goes through the efforts, to educate people in the actual history of styles. However movies as you said are for entertainment purposes, of which unless it is a historical film, then true events and content for the most part, films will fictionalise characters, events, styles of martial arts, such as is the case with the Karate Kid films. You are absolutely correct that the Karate patch on Chozen's Karate gi, is indeed that of Goju-Ryu Karate, so that in itself would confirm that Miyagi-Do Karate, would most likely have been a variation, or derivative of Goju-Ryu Karate. He identified the portrait of Goju-Ryu Karate founder, Master Miyagi Chojun, yet he himself missed the fact, that amongst the portraits of Mr. Miyagi's ancestors, besides real life Karate Master of Goju-Ryu, Miyagi Chojun's portrait, there was also that of real life and Aikido founder, Master Ueshiba Morihei's portrait as well. His is the one with the gentleman wearing a complete, black Japanese traditional outfit, as well as him having a long white beard and white hair also. Overall this is done for entertainment, not to give people a historical or martial arts tutorial. Hollywood is always going to inject elements of over the top drama and flamboyance to make a film more commercially successful. Take for instance Dragon The Bruce Lee Story, with Jason Scott Lee, there are so many inaccuracies and historically distorted events, that many people who knew Bruce Lee, such as his family and friends, say that his wife Linda Emery Lee-Cadwell, gave the film makers freedom, to tell the story of Bruce Lee, with some leeway, for the sake of entertainment. In that film Bruce Lee had his back or spine broken or damaged, by his opponent kicking him right in the back, rendering him temporarily paralysed. However in real life Bruce Lee had hurt his back, due to trying to lift, an excessive and exaggerated, amount of weights. After he fortunately and miraculously recovered from such an injury, he thought twice about how to workout safely and wisely, to achieve his full, physical conditioning and athletic speed, as well as optimum power. However in reality for the film it would not have been entertaining or seen like a big deal to include it in such a way. Donnie Yen's last two Ip Man films tell a much more accurate account of the young Bruce Lee overall. I look forward to more Cobra Kai analysis and martial arts films in general Sensei Dan. May you have a wonderful weekend ahead, Osu!🇲🇽🇦🇺🥋🙏✌🤟👍
Re the true style of Mr. Miyagi, this is indeed fascinating stuff! In addition, let's not forget Fumio Demura. He was originally asked to play the role (and some say that the Miyagi character is based on him) but apparently didn't due to language difficulties, however he acted as Pat Morita's stunt double in many scenes. His style is Shito-Ryu. Hmmm... ;) Many thanks for the great vid! :) I love this stuff! :)
The kanku kata in cobra Kai is also in the style I trained in called Shidokan Shorin Ryu. We have 2 kata called Kanku Sho and Kanku Dai....the floating platform kata is Kanku Dai.
I always enjoy watching your videos. It was great that you picked up on Jesse Enkamp's recent video on this topic. It also speaks very highly of you with the way you have spoken about him and indeed for many of us he is the "European Gold Standard' on Okinawan and Japanese karate. So I guess that the piece of the equation we would be missing is the spiritual connection between the kind of karate practiced by the fictional "Miyagi-do" and the different style or styles. Undoubtedly what differentiates "Cobra Kai dojo" from "Miyagi dojo" is the spirituality or the purpose behind the karate being practiced. There is also a very close connection between the principal styles of karate, two of which became the mainstream styles in Japan . This is where I think Jesse Enkamp is on to something in his video: because the style he suggests, which is the one I practice, found its way to Osaka and has become very much a "do" or "way" of karate, which is what happened when the Okinawan art was adapted to the requirements of Japan, just as the Japanese Jiu Jitsu evolved into Judo. In Shito Ryu we also look very much at other styles and in most katas explain how the same kata would be performed for example in Shotokan. As Jesse has always said, karate is like a tree with many different branches, but it is still the same tree. He also said that it is like a mountain and the different styles are different paths up the mountain; and the closer you get to the top (although we know we never actually get to the top) the more all the different styles converge. I love the suggestions being made by other commentators about you doing a video together with Jesse.
Kanryo Higaonna Sensei;s picture is up there. He is the one who taught Chojun Miyagi. Remember...All Okinawan Karate was was known as Okinawa Te, (Okinawan hand), so there are many "styles" that were incorporated. I train and teach USA Goju Karate, founded by Master Peter Urban. It incorporates Aiki Jiu Jitsu, Shotokan and Japanese Goju Ryu Karate.
It is very common for competent Karatekas to incorporate other disciplines which they previously learnt. I was trained in Ashihara Karate, which was branched out from Kyokushin. Kancho Ashihara had a competent student named Ninomiya, who started Enshin Ryu, he incorporated Judo. And the list goes on. Personally, my local Sensei was trained in Hapkido. He taught me wrist locks & staff techniques which was not in the Ashihara syllabus. In conclusion, cross incorporation of different arts is common.
It's a MOVIE!!! Y'all overthinking this. Hollywood always takes "dramatic license" and changes thing. As a side note: Kanei Uechi learned Uechi-ryu from his father Kanbun (called Pan Gai Noon at the time). Kiyohide Shinjo is the son and student of Seiyu Shinjo (Uechi Ryu). I am not buying into father's did not teach their sons. I believe some have, some haven't. I doubt it was a general rule whether they did or not. People from other Okinawan styles can elaborate on this (or not).
Thanks for your video, Following on from my previous comment on your related video, (we are not totally sure that Mr Miyagi’s brief glimpse of a kata is clearly a Goju ryu kata) Maybe we could ask a Shito Ryu or Shuti te practitioner if they recognise it.
I think it is like always. We see something and we want it to fit somehow even if we dont know how to do it. Karatekas are doing it in bunkais and now in TV series😂
For those who are curious. The taolu we see Jaden Smith perform in the Jackie Chan Karate Kid (there may be more but this is the only one I remember) is the wu bu quan, or fist of the five steps. It is the entry level form in the majority of wushu schools.
My 5 cents of the story is that there is different versions of karate styles. My son was part of a Goju-Ryu Dojo that did a specific version of Goju-Ryu. For example they did 16 katas and not the core 13 katas at that school. In the beginning of the year we moved him to a new Goju-Ryu Dojo. There they do a different version of Goju-Ryu again. They focus on the 13 main katas, but these katas also differ in version from the previous dojos katas.
I believe it’s a representation of Isshinryu, daughter style of GojuRyu, founded by Tatsuo Shimabuku in the early 50s. He trained with Miyagi and combined different styles and Katas from Shito Ryu, Goju Ryu and Shorin Ryu for this system. When learning insshinryu, it was pointed out to me that upper body basic #7 (open hand side block, shuto to body) is “wax on wax off”. Also, each of the Okinawan kata shown in the films are in the Isshinryu system (seiunchin, naihanchi) as well as the upper body basic punches and blocks. In the end most styles borrow and build from previous systems so it’s not a huge distinction, but pretty interesting
Yes, also, see another of Jesse's video about why all Karate styles are "fake", and, it bears out your theory. Bear in mind that Miyagi FORMALIZED his techniques and kata into the curriculum of Goju Ryu; they all existed long before Goju. Also, as another commenter here pointed out, Daniel could have studied other styles since Mr. Miyagi.
Sensi Fumio Demura was a SIGNIFICANT influence in the Karate Kid movies. Researching his history may fill in the "gap" between the Kata forms and philosophy being betrayed in the flims and a generic version of karate techniques used in the popular Cobra Kai series...
The key to everything is Pat Johnson. He trained all the original actors and choreographed all the films, including the Swank version. He's basically the only one who can truly tell us how much influence Robert Mark Kamen (goju-ryu) and Fumio Demura (shito-ryu) had physically during the productions. Remember, just because Kamen was the creator of the franchise and the characters doesn't mean he was around 100% of the time on set. Same with Demura. He was Morita's primary stunt double, but that doesn't mean he was around Morita 100% of his time on set either including training. He had to deal with the choreography for the scenes he was in. Here's something to think about...in the Swank movie she performs Nianchi Sahm Dan, which is a form from Johnson's style (that is also found in shito-ryu). Demura was Morita's double in that movie as well. Besides seiyunchin/seienchin, shito-ryu with the exception of the two gekisai kata includes every kata taught in goju-ryu. So the question is, why weren't any of those "Naha" kata used instead? Johnson had Demura there to work with him. Perhaps Demura wasn't as influential on the karate aspect as we thought and more so regarding Morita's portrayal.
I'd love to see a video tackling The Next Karate Kid. It's actually my second favourite. Karate Kid 2, The Next Karate Kid, Karate Kid, and Karate Kid 3 would be my personal ranking
I have to be honest and say I've never met anyone who liked The Next Karate Kid more than the original. I do plan to cover it in the near future, but I do have several issues with the film and do no care for it. My personal favorites are in the order they were released.
@@ArtofOneDojo I totally respect that. There is no denying that the film is flawed! However Hillary Swank's acting was superb, and I could personally relate more to Julie's rash defiance than to Daniel's option of avoiding and hiding (after that initial confrontation on the beach). I think that also ties into why I prefer Karate Kid 2 to the original, as Daniel is a more competent and assured martial artist who tackles high stakes issues. The third movie seemed to sadly revert him both in terms of skill and courage. Where I would say the original is better than the Next Karate Kid is in the way it includes humourous moments into the movie without taking away from the tension. Just my own perspective on those movies.
On the issue of Cobra Kai's origin being Japanese or Korean, a number of fan sites say: "Kim Sun-Yung was a Karate master in South Korea who trained John Kreese in the art of Karate." You would "think" that because Kim Sun-Yung is Korean, that the martial art he taught in his homeland would also be Korean, but that might not be the case. We also never hear Korean words used in the Cobra Kai dojo in the Karate Kid series.
@@ArtofOneDojo True that. I checked it out myself. Johnny definitely uses "choon-bi", which would the korean equivalent to "yoi" in japanese Karate. What puzzles me is that they keep calling Kreese "Sensei" while the korean word for it would be either "Sabeomnim" or "gyosanim".
@@keysielcarnero473 Could be for different reasons. Look at Sensei Ichi's RUclips channel. He goes by Sensei but he's American Tang Soo Do. He's part Japanese so he decided to go with Sensei. We also have a Tang Soo Do school out here that has "Karate" on he building and they also use Sensei and Dojo. I think a lot of times schools use terms that are familiar with the public, or there is a blend of influence in them. It's also possible that Kreese is a mix of styles too.
John Kreese i'm guessing, learned his martial arts in between the 60s and 70's. So its most likely that he learned the old version of Tang soo do that you can see in the old "Korean Karate" books. Its also well documented that when the soldiers returned to the U.S. they blend Korean Tang soo Do with the Japanese Karate that was already stablish at that time, that's the reason why many Tang Soo Do schools interchange their name with Karate and use japanese terminology sometimes.
Sinanju is a fictional Korean martial art (the "Sun Source" of all martial arts) of the cult paperback book series The Destroyer, by Warren Murphy and Richard Sapir. The Destroyer series lampoons politicians, politics, and other adventure novels, and features gory violence on evildoers, martial art adventures and more. Chiun comes from a long line of hired assassins called the House of Sinanju that has pursued its trade since before the time of the pharaohs. (Chiun explains that Tutankhamun was killed by a Sinanju master after attempting to defraud the House by reneging on a contract.) Sinanju is a village on the coast of North Korea; the Korean translation is, literally, "comfortable new village". Historically, revenues from the House's contracts have been used to support the inhabitants. (The village should not be confused with the city of the same name.) Early disciples of the art used weapons, but the later practitioners developed virtually superhuman abilities through the training as it became revised following the ascension of Master Wang, the greatest master of the art up until modern times. Sinanju training enables one to hold one's breath for over an hour, rip steel doors from their hinges, climb walls, dodge bullets (even at point-blank range), overturn a moving tank, outrun a car, seem invisible, overcome multiple opponents, and bring a woman to the heights of sexual ecstasy. According to Chiun, the other martial arts in the world (kung fu, ninjutsu, etc.) are all seriously diluted imitations of Sinanju. He compares the other arts to rays of sunshine with Sinanju being the sun itself. He also refers to an ancient Sinanju legend which predicts that the greatest master in the history of the art will be a dead white Night Tiger (Sinanju acolyte) "made whole by the art." Remo Williams appears to fit the description in Chiun's estimation. The Wa: A line of assassins that was taught by an ancient master of Sinanju how to use knives effectively. They tried to betray the village of Sinanju to its enemies and were forced to flee to Japan, where they operated until the 20th century. The Wissex: An English house of assassins that were created after a master of Sinanju received a retainer to train an auxiliary assassin from the court of Henry the Eighth to serve in his absence. This group was trained in poisons and other arts that the House of Sinanju had abandoned following the ascension of Master Wang. The Sun On Jo: An American Indian tribe founded by a Master of Sinanju named Kojong who journeyed to America centuries earlier. He taught his descendant how to fight, walk silently across sand without disturbing it and other tricks, but imposed a decree on them that they must not take human life - this was done so the main house would not face future competitors. He also passed on the Sinanju-derived abilities to his eldest son, whose own firstborn sons would be called by the name "Sunny Joe". Remo Williams' father Bill Roam is a member of this tribe and a direct descendant of Kojong, confirming what Chiun had long suspected about Remo's Korean heritage.[5] Remo's son and daughter (Stone Smith and Freya Williams) are being taught Sinanju by Bill Roam in the "Legacy" series , co-authored by Gerald Welch and Warren Murphy until Murphy's death in 2015. Welch continues the series.
As i said in the Jesse Enkamp channel.. In the movies you had more martial artists in the creative team and they tried to keep it more into the traditional Karate. But in the series, The showrunners and writers aren't martial artists. So as you mention, its a choice from choreographer, Sensei Hiro Koda, who trains a style called Yukosai Karate that blends Japanese and Okinawan Karate and since he have competed in the U.S. open tournaments, he have also develop a flashier style for his techniques. So thats why you see in the movies they tried a more faithful representation of the Karate techniques (Goju Ryu - Tang soo Do) and in the series is more like an eclectic form (American Karate). Doesn't have to do anything with history or research, just creative choices for the show. Note: about the Naihanchi Kata.. Actually Chojun Miyagi in his essay called "Historical Outline of Karate Do" he does mention Naihanchi togeter with Sanchin and Tensho as part of the Fundamental Kata training. So maybe at one point, he DID included Naihanchi as part of the Goju Ryu or maybe as a supplementary formative Kata.
I had believed the first movie was essentially about Goju-ryu since the first time I saw it. I didn't follow the rest of the movies. I think I recall Jesse mentioning Shito-ryu, but I didn't think much more about it because Kenwa Mabuni (Shito-ryu) and Chojun Miyagi (Goju-ryu) had both studied under Higaonna Kanryo (Naha-te). The last image in the movie Miyagi's dojo you showed above reminded me of Tode Sakugawa. That doesn't make literal sense because he was a pioneer of what would later be Shuri-te. I think all those images were redrawn and may actually be no one in particular historically.
Chosen miyagi may have been a brother of Mr miyagi that was never mentioned, maybe goju ryu is chosens version of his father's karate....or as we know, Daniel has been back to Okinawa several times, maybe he, like must martial artists has practiced with other masters and modified his teaching to his own students
Jesse seems great, but poking around, he seems very Karate focused. I'm just curious, do you know any other youtubers who focus on other styles (Kung Fu, Taekwondo, whatever?) to the same degree Jesse does Karate? I watch Matt Easton for HEMA history, development, and criticism and then kind of had you for all the eastern stuff, but I hadn't known about Jesse and now I wonder what else I'm missing.
Jesse is very Karate focused, but he does it REALLY well. I highly recommend watching his "Karate Nerd in Okinawa" series where he visits Okinawa and trains at different dojos. VERY fascinating. He has lived in Okinawa and trained both there and Japan and grew up in a Karate family. I consider him a high authority on traditional Karate and his channel is one of my favorites.
Well his (trademarked) nickname is the "Karate Nerd". Jesse is a second generation karateka and the older brother of former UFC fighter Oliver Enkamp. Not sure about his father (rank, alive or passed away), but his mother is one of the highest ranking black belts in the world. He's lived and attended school in Japan and studied with some of the highest ranking masters on Okinawa. In terms of being the top authority on Okinawan karate, its very close between him and Patrick McCarthy. Though Jesse would tell you its Patrick.
So, is Miyagi cannonically Chogin Miyagi's son? I figure that he is a grandson or a nephew, which could explain the mixed style. Also, Miyagi Do could be a fictional family style that is derived from Goju-Ryu and incorparated other Okinawan techniques. 🤷♂️
It seems that these are details screen writers are not careful enough to address. They got all the karate mixed up perhaps because accuracy was not the goal. Sadly it does minimize the work being presented even though in this case it is not of major consequence since the show does have other odd choices that undermine the narrative. Perhaps the biggest one would be going from a light hearted fun underdog story to this dark and bizarre karate Avengers like show down. Not a great artistic choice specially considering that there are children that are watching. Back to the karate Okinawan karate prior to the 20s was more individualized. Techniques were accommodated to suit the individual for the sake of function and application which is why there is so much variation in kata nontheless Te comes primarily from two larger schools of thought those being the karate performed in Shuri and the karate from Naha. This later on becomes Shorin and Shorei. The first favor speed and linear attacks while the later involved more circular motions along side with the development of muscle mass, body hardening and employed many grappling resources. From these two general approaches we get several teachers. Upon Kiano Jigoro's visit to Okinawa they had the local Te masters do a presentation for him. Since Te was not thought of as having styles the demonstrators simply used the name of their village to identify their practice. This is more or less when we start getting into the notion of labeling styles. To people back then it was simply all different ways to do Te and fact students would study under different masters and even with people that came from China, Japan and Siam which is nowadays Thailand. With the issue in question perhaps it would not be uncommon for people in Okinawa to know katas from the two general schools of thought. For example Funakoshi used both systems in his teaching just as later Isshin Ryu does as well. Does it mean Miyagi Do is Goju? Maybe yes, maybe no, nonetheless I have seen teachers incorporate katas from other system when they felt it suited a particular need so that could be a way to look at this.
Oh and also I think a valid point was missed brought up by my buddy shane...kung fu stylist fyi...lol. kk2 miyagi says karate started by miyagi family ancestor.
1625. Like all Miyagi, Shimpo sensei was fisherman. Loved fishing. Love saki. One day strong go wind, strong go sun, strong go saki, but no fish. Shimpo sensei fall asleep off coast of Okinawa wake up off coast of China. 10 years later he come back to Okinawa with Chinese wife and 2 kids children and secret of Miyagi family karate. That's the big problem with having new people come in and takeover another writer's creation. They sometimes ignore certain things either by accident or on purpose and add their own take on it. Hell, Will and Jada Smith weren't even writers and they completely added their own take to the "remake". So much there wasn't one shred of karate in it despite the name.
Most likely ... They wanted a kata that suited Hilary Swank, and one that would work on a floating circle, because it looked good, my guess, and used them, trusting the fact that most people would not know any way. Another guess is that Julies father perhaps did not find a Goju Ryu dojo to practice in and trained with some other style for a while, and taught Julie that one, and Daniel says that he _read_ about some excercise for working together. Maybe he actually studies all kinds of things about karate, especially now with his rekindled interest, and having to become the teacher, and decided that doing kankudai synchronized was good training for his top students. Many instructors do invite other styles and arts, doing very different classes, teaching grappling, falling techniques or katas from other styles, or yoga or even aerobic dance.
Despite fiction I knew Miyagi Family Karate was *Goju Ryu Karate* base on kata and technical uses of combat. Including Miyagi explanation of his family karate. Cobra Kai is quite the mystery though. Terry Silver said his teacher from Korea taught him and John Kreese together. I know it's not Hapkido and Taekwondo. But, it could fall under Tang Soo Do, Muk Duk Kwan, Soo Bahk Do, or Sipalki. In relation of those arts. Despite Cobra Kai not providing a kata to its form. Overall, I seen every single movie. Mr Miyagi is a aspiring character.
Hey, theres a movie called undisputed 3 redemption that has a really good capoeira fight scene in it. Can you manybe talk about and the other fight scenes in it?
Its simple The shito ryu Founder also trained under The teacher of master Miyagi goju Founder Higaona/ Higashiona Kanryo. The cobra Kai stuff, in Miyagi do, as some we see in karate kid, could be shito, since Demura Sensei was shito ryu
I think jesse ekkamp is wright.. the Fumio Demura' influence was very important on the development of the karate style. He practice Shito Ryu Karate Do
I saw a picture of the founder of aikido morie uieshiba .when daniel and miyagi was watching the the picture in the cener after he did the kata in karate kid 2
5:16 - The first picture on the left looks very like Seisho Aragaki 新垣 世璋, 1840-1918. He taught Kanryo Higashionna 東恩納 寛量 who of taught both Kenwa Mabuni and Chojun Miyagi I suspect that the answer given in the Jesses video is correct. Still, you do have a point it could easily be an Okinawan style containing any combination of Kata from Shuri-te and Naha-Te. When I saw the video I wondered if might be the Seiko Higa-Kanki Izumikawa lineage of Goju Ryu (he was a student of Chojun Miyagi). it includes Naihachi and Nepai that more popular Goju Ryu styles do not. - I read that information in Goju-Ryu Toudi by Jutsu Nyumon. According to the book Naihaichi although regarded as a Shuri-te Kata was included in Goju ryu at one point . On page 179 he also states that a few extra Naha-Te kata have been preserved and only taught to seniors. It also appears very focused on the softer side with techniques from the bubishi to me the movements look more Kung FU than standard Gojuryu.
I've mentioned this before on some of Dan's videos on the subject. The key to Miyagi-do is the creator of the franchise Robert Mark Kamen. In the original trilogy I'm going to say that the original basis for Miyagi-do was goju-ryu since that was his system. However, after the third movie he was no longer physically involved with the franchise. He didn't write the screenplay for the Hilary Swank movie, definitely wasn't involved in the Will Smith one and is not currently a writer on the show and isn't around to be a goju-ryu "technical advisor". Because of that that's why Miyagi-do has been changing since the Swank movie. Although the new writers have tried to keep it as original to Kamen's vision as possible, they're going to add their own ideas to the characters and story. Doesn't matter how many times they've watched the movies they'll never have the same attachment to Miyagi, Daniel, Kreese or Johnny as Kamen does. Same with the choreographers. With Kamen not around as an advisor on goju-ryu they're going to choreograph the projects with what they know. Pat Johnson who choreographed all four movies is an American Tang Soo Do stylist. We don't have tensho, shisochin or seiyunchin, but we do have Nianchi Sahm Dan which is the kata that Swank did in her movie. The show is primarily choreographed by yoshukai stylist Hiro Koda and assisted by people like taekwondo and hapkido master Simon Rhee. Koda is going to add his own style and kata to the show. Had Kamen never left it could have been sanchin or kururunfa in the Swank movie instead of Nianchi Sahm Dan or seisan or suparimpei in the show instead of kushanku. But with Kamen gone Miyagi-do has evolved because I'm pretty sure spinning heel kicks and capoiera style handstand kicks were never moves he envisioned being in Miyagi-do.
I noticed that they were doing kanku Dai a few weeks ago..I figured it's because they're stupid and they had no idea it wasn't a Goju Ryu Kata...kanku Dai is a beautiful Kata, I love it, even though I'm a Goju Ryu student myself
Its because the choreographer Hiro Koda is a yoshukai karate stylist and he's doing his own thing. Same as Pat Johnson did in the Hilary Swank movie where she did a Tang Soo Do form. With Robert Mark Kamen not there as a kind of I guess a goju-ryu technical advisor each choreographer is left to his own devices within reason. Difference between Tang Soo Do and yoshukai is that the latter does include some Naha-te kata, specifically sanchin. Though its doubtful that will be demonstrated since the show is looking for flashier stuff (capoiera style kick in the tournament scene). But yoshukai does include a version of seisan (which is also found in Tang Soo Do) so we might see parts of that one on day. Though is it noticeably different than versions I've seen in goju-ryu so it wouldn't be exact either.
You skipped over Fumio Demuras input which is documented in The Real Miyagi. I think I'm in camp Shitō Ryū but loving the go between. Two of my fav channels 😃
On a surface level I see Kenpo influences in Cobra Kai Karate, along with tang soo do; "Way Of The Fist", black competition gi's, use of the word sensei instead of sabumnim, just minor things, but definitely not a traditional Korean art. Them kicks, tho.
It's interesting because I know some Tang Soo Do schools that will use the Japanese words. They use Sensei, Karate, and Dojo. I think a lot of it is that it has largely become "Americanized". In American Kenpo we actually don't traditionally use the word Sensei. Most of the time it's simply Mr. and Mrs. (Why I go by Mr. Dan, it was my teaching name). Sometimes you'll see Sifu used by those who want to be more traditional since American Kenpo is more Chinese than Japanese.
Great one. I watched Karate Nerd episode yesterday. And great point, he's on top of Okinawa training. You got the movie portion. And watching Cobra Kai the timeline for Danielle competing is somewhat explained. He would have been probably 18 about to turn 19 in Karate Kid 3, so he could still compete in tournament. Pushing it, but it could work.
There is a bit of discrepancy in Daniel's age, it's one of the few things of the series that bothers me that I can't 100% peg. In the first film, the tournament was on December 19th, in 1984. Daniel's birthday is December 18th because he was celebrating it with Miyagi the day before and he was talking about how nervous he was about the tournament and then when he went to go see Ali he mentions that it's "tomorrow" so we know the tournament is the day after his birthday. He also got his driver's license that day, which implies he just turned 16 which makes him qualify for the "under 18 All Valley Tournament". Karate Kid 2 takes place the next summer in 85, and in Karate Kid part 3 they are coming back from Okinawa and Daniel is forced to compete in the 85 tournament. Providing it's the same date, he would be 17 when the tournament was held making him eligable. HOWEVER...he was supposed to go to College that same fall of 85, which would make him entering college at 16? 17 can happen, but 16 is rare and Daniel is not a prodigy. So that seems to be odd. OR....what if he's 16 in part 1 and TURNS 17 right before the tournament in 84? Then he'd graduate high school at 17 which some people do. And what if the tournament wasn't on the 19th in part 3, but say earlier in the month? All it had to be was 2 days earlier and Daniel would still have been 17, therefore still qualifying. December 19 in 1984 was a Wednesday though, so an odd night for a tournament, especially considering in Cobra Kai season one the tournament was held on May 19th, 2018 which was a Saturday. (This is assuming the show starts in 2018 since that's the release date, not 100% sure if they mentioned a year). OR... If Daniel was 17 and turned 18 before the tournament in Part 3...maybe as long as you are 17 when you sign the application you still qualify? I'm not really sure, they keep it a little vague and the age thing I have not been entirely clear on. I've thought WAY too hard about this lol.
@@5dragonskarategoryukarate-890 It definitely was one year later because they announced Daniel as the first winner of two years in a row, which means Daniel won the 1984 and 1985 tournaments. We know that Johnny also won two years as well, but they couldn't have been back to back. We know he won in 1983 because Johnny was pep talking a sick Tommy in Cobra Kai, calling him a fighter and says "Hey, who beat Vidal in 83 to get to the Semis?" and Tommy responds "yeah, but who beat me?" And Johnny smiles and says "well you didn't make it easy". So we know Johnny won 1983 and 81 if he won twice but they weren't back to back. So who the heck won 1982??? I'm putting my bets on Vidal.
@@ArtofOneDojo Of course one should not over think Karate Kid. But I do the same. And have argued Daniel should have been disqualified for kicking to the face. And how easy it is to actually defend crane kick. But that's what makes it so much fun too.
@@5dragonskarategoryukarate-890 You think Daniel should have been disqualified? Have you seen my "Is the Crane Kick Legal?" video? I go into that there :D
Excellent point! We did talk about him in one of the episodes, if you look in the description click on "What kind of Karate is in Cobra Kai PART 2" and his section is there :)
It really did not occur to me before, but we do have to look stuff with this. Pat Morita Stunt double was shitto ryu Demura Sensei. Shi to ryu means style of Anko Itoso and Higashiona Kanryo. Shito Founder Kenwa Mabuni, lived in Naha for some time and practiced alongside Miyagi. Shito is só called The mix of nahate and shurite. Therefore goju katas and shuri line katas together, why Not? Miyagi do could be a line of Itoso mix to Higashiona Kanryo. One that would be closer to goju in some parts and not in others. Then again its a movie, but Demura Sensei, - All respect to him,. Was Shito ryu master
I'm not 100% convinced is Ueshiba, there are several other Okinawan Master that look like that. A couple of viewers have sent messages with closer matches.
In China fathers taught there sons and they were given all the patriarchs knowledge, it continued in okinawa and this is why some techniques were lost. However I do believe that all styles of karate were at one point a single style and some kata were invented later history and lineage does point to that. Its possible that styles may have been mixed for the movies.
there's another movie with that kata or a similar called Never Back Down 2 done by Lyoto Machida and Micheal Jai white and is again done in the sequel with more speed and power by Micheal Jai White to beat a fighter
That was Tekki Shodan in shotokan, also known as Naihanchi Shodan in every other system of Japanese and Okinawan karate, Nianchi Cho Dan in Tang Soo Do. Its the first of a series of three. The one from the Hilary Swank movie is the third kata in the series. In the scene where White defeats the MMA fighter its two kata (anan and seipai) that he uses.
I have 11 years of wrestling experience and I’m 15 I started wrestling when I was 4 and I’m going to start tang soo do is that a good art for me with my past skill please give me feedback anyone
If you have a solid grappling background, then you'll want a good striking system to compliment it. Karate/Tang Soo Do can be good choices, a good American Kenpo school as well, but especially boxing or Muay Thai. Find a good balance of ground fighting, stand up grappling, and a striking system and you'll have a well rounded skillset.
Did anyone notice that sato wears red belt in karate kid 2 I thought he was taught belts didn’t matter by Mr. miyagi’s father. Guess he uses belts when he teaches or maybe learned another martial art?
Sato turned toward a path of commercialization and business. It's clear that after he and Mr. Miyagi had their falling out Sato turned inward towards his resentment.
I commented on your old video regarding the miyagi style. That it was a mix goju ryu and shito ryu. Because of demura's influence in the training aspect. You didn't agree back then....
I still maintain that Miyagi Do as it is presented to us in the films is Goju Ryu. I'm will to be open to the idea that the previous generation may have been Shito Ryu and also be willing to admit you could have been right. Also, at the time of that video we had not seen Kanku evident as Season 2 wasn't released yet. I think Jesse could be right with the background, but Miyagi Do as we know it I believe is still primarily Goju Ryu.
Yeah, Jesse was wrong (it had to happen at some point) Miyago-Do is based on (or an extention of) Goju and so the founder picture makes sense. No mistake. People don't realise that, like religion, if you change one thing (include something different) it's a new style. Take Karate style A and perform kata 4 the way style B do it... and it's NOT Karate style A anymore. It's different.
I agree to a point, though I don't necessarily agree that making small changes suddenly makes it a whole new art. In American Kenpo, one of our early kata point out and demonstrate the 3 main power generation techniques. Rotation is the first example and the first move is the step and and rotate with a hammering block, and then rotate outward with a swordhand to the neck. (The next sequence demonstrates back up mass, and the next sequence demonstrates gravity). However, some people like to change that sword hand as more of a dropping strike, opting for gravity over rotation. It changes the base concept but that doesn't mean it's no Longer "Style A". It's still American Kenpo because the underlying principles are still intact. You aren't going to find a Goju ryu, Shito Ryu, White Crane, Tang Soo Do, BJJ grappler, or any martial arts that does their system exactly the same as another. There are always subtle differences. The style changes really come into play when you start to change/adapt/combine ideology and making changes to the underlying principles of the system.
You’re ignoring a few things. Jesse points one of them out in his video. 1. Karate originated from Kung fu systems. The kata in the original film is also very similar to tai chi. The crane kick clearly comes from white crane and that is part of some modern karate systems such as shaolin kempo. That system draws heavily from Kung fu. 2. Who says it is a strict “style”. In the original film myagi didn’t have a belt system. “No need rope hold up pants”. And flash forward to the fight between Jonny and kreese in cobra Kai when Jonny does the flip kick sort of that Bruce Lee used “Kreese: I taught you everything you know, Jonny: not everything!” Style is a made up concept. Your personal style becomes many things so who’s to say myagi didn’t adapt different techniques?
So what exactly am I ignoring? We have several episodes that cover the styles of Cobra Kai and Karate Kid and in each of them I make the claim that I believe that Cobra Kai is based on Tang Soo Do and Miyagi do is based on Goju Ryu...or some form of them. I've also been open and said their could be other influences in there. That's not ignoring anything, and the fact that Karate originated from Kung Fu systems really isn't relevant to the topic being discussed here. The question was whether or not Mr. Miyagi's Karate was based on Goju Ryu. He says it was a mistake by the show and it is Shito Ryu instead. I'm simply pointing out that it could be BOTH. That the family history could be Shito Ryu or a mix of many of the local Okinawan styles (which yes are blended with Chinese arts but that didn't seem relevant to pull forward). The movies and show almost outright tell us it's Goju Ryu. I think Jesse is right on the history and the reason I made this update is to also point out that I think Jesse discovered something much more fun in that Miyagi's family Karate system has generational differences. The is no debate or doubt that Mr. Nariyoshi Miyagi was not in some degree based on Chojun Miyagi and his art. But I really like the idea that when Chojun Miyagi came forward with his system that the Miyagi family picked it up and that could be one of the main focuses of Mr. Miyagi's upbringing. You also kinda reiterate what I said, but just reversed it. You're asking my why I can't consider that Mr. Miyagi may have picked up other style influences. That's correct, he could have....but I think it makes much more sense to flip that around in that Miyagi's FATHER adapted new influences and passed them into his training and what he passed down to his son (Nariyoshi Miyagi). We see no indication in the films that Mr. Miyagi sought out anything new or different, but rather passed down what he knew to Daniel. I fully believe that Jesse and I are both right, that Jesse nailed the Miyagi family history, but I think Goju Ryu got mixed in and that became more of the primary focus for Mr. Miyagi.
Art of One Dojo wasn’t saying anyone was wrong but it is clear to me that Johnny adapted his skills beyond what Kreese taught. We never saw that kick Daniel cannot do in any of the films that I remember anyway. I chimed in because along with knowing that talking about this keeps the show popular so awesome. Secondly, I like discussing stuff like this.
@@victoriadillard7270 You are right, we never see Daniel try that kick in any of the films...because he learned it later. In Season 1 Daniel tells Robby that the kick was one of the last things Miyagi taught him and that "I almost did it once in my 20's". Now this is really interesting because it paints a bit of a strange picture in which it doesn't seem like Daniel trained with Mr. Miyagi all that long after Karate Kid 3 perhaps? Here is what we do know: Daniel was 17 in Karate Kid 3 In the "Next Karate Kid", Daniel is at college and Miyagi goes to visit Julie's family so. If that technique is one of the last things he learned and it he almost did it in his 20's, this implies Miyagi stopped teaching him when Daniel was in his 20s. At least new material. So if you account the few years Daniel is in college this really doesn't leave a lot of time for Miyagi to teach him. And we don't know if Daniel meant at age 21 or 29. We also see Daniel teaching Samantha when she was a kid, and she was 8 years old when she stopped (she's 16 in Cobra Kai and she mentions it's been 8 years since she trained". What we can put together from that though is...Anthony would have been really young around that time...a toddler. The show takes place in 2018 and Miyagi's tombstone says "2011", so 7 years. I think there are enough hints there to PRESUME that one year prior, when Sam was 8, perhaps Mr. Miyagi started getting sick. Daniel stopped teaching her to deal with it, plus they had a young child. Miyagi dies and that dojo is turned into a storage unit. Do you remember the very first two things Daniel pulls out when restoring the dojo? A stroller and a funeral wreath. Danie's Karate got burried under "family responsibility and death". So there is another 7 years Daniel didn't train. This really isn't super relevant to the points you made, but it's a fun challenge to try to put little clues together and figure out the big picture. I'm hoping Season 3 gives us even more clues.
Art of One Dojo well it is also easy to presume Johnny stops training because when he fights the kids outside the store in episode 1 he gets a cramp, however he was able to rebound from that quickly by the time he begins training Miguel. It is also easy to presume he trained elsewhere after Kreese. In the beginning of karate kid 2 when Kreese has him in a choke hold I doubt his training with Kreese continues. Flash forward to cobra Kai Kreese: “I taught you everything you know”, Johnny: “Not everything”. I also wonder if Daniel continued training with other instructors? He kept it up enough to train Sam years later. If I remember correctly some of the moves Julie used in “The next Karate kid” were not used in what we see in Daniels Training correct me if I’m wrong it’s been awhile since I watched the movies. I also seem to remember the flip kick Johnny uses on Kreese used by Jaden Smith in the remake. I am enjoying this exchange because if we are thinking about this on this level others are also. January 8th season 3 premieres. Season 4 is in production.
That is the style Jesse Enkamp suggested it was. In this video I was explaining how our theories can both be right. Shito Ryu COULD be the early base of it, but I think Goju Ryu is mainly what Miyagi Do is currently.
They probably put in a kata that they thought was cool & didn’t think further. Writings of many people in entertainment talk often how things were put in due to how cool it was.
It seems Miyagi Do Karate es more Shito Ryu than Goyu Ryu. As the Shito Ryu takes Nahate and Shurite Karate. That explains the inclusion of Itosu and Higaona katas.
His family Karate sure...but I still maintain that they adopted Goju Ryu later because many signs in the movie and show suggest Goju Ryu. It's honestly probably a mix of the two, which would totally explain the inclusion of all the Katas. Someone already commented that they may have identified one of the pictures on the wall as the instructor of both Chojun Miyagi (Goju Ryu Founder) and Kenwa Mabuni (Shito Ryu Founder). This would totally support the theory I present here, that Shito Ryu could have been the family karate but that Goju Ryu got implemented later.
@@ArtofOneDojo That can be. Shito Ryu´s Founder, Mabuni, was a student of Higaona and Itosu. Higaona is, at the end, the master of Miyagi as Goyu Ryu is Higaona based. Mabuni also learned from Itosu, so it is not far fetched that Chojun Miyagi and Mabuni were "kohai" in the Higaona Dojo and then Mr. Miyagi could learn from Mabuni (his father friend) some of the Itosu Katas. Loved the videos!
Shinpo sensei fell asleep on his boat of coast awoke off coast of china 8 yrs later came home with chinese wife an child secret of miyagi do karate though goju was formally formed in the 30s chojun miyagi teacher kanryo higaonna called his style shorei ryu though miyagi changed the name but he also added things he learned in china to make goju ryu
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Mr Miyagi, A Legend who never gone from my Heart!
In Shotokan, we know those katas as tekki (shodan, nidan, sandan) and they are pretty awesome
I think there is also room that Mr. Miyagi and Daniel-San both looked beyond GoJu Ryu during their own training.
Absolutely true!
How can Danielle add anything as a untrained meatbag
As a Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do from 1980 to 1998.. Ranked as Master or 4th degree
Very little in cobra kai is Tang soo do
Some terms sounded similar..
But everything else was nothing that was shown that I learned and trained people in.
However, I also added in a lot of stuff from other martial arts I was learning in the 80s. From 1980 to 86 I learned 7 martial arts.
Ranked in 2..the 4 kung fu systems I was learning were free and rank wasn't needed
We never fought as rigid as they do in karate kid or cobra kai
None of that would work and I would put money on that
I fought in real full contact tournaments from the fall of 1980 to the end of 1995
That garbage shown would get you hurt.
At 55 I still can handle Danielle and Johnny 5.
Get them into a mma cage.. Specially Danielle aka Raplh Macchio... I want him to use that BS against me..
Not fair for him now on my 8th and 9th martial art.
Ugh...
@@Docthewrench You know it's just a movie and show right? No need to get upset about fighting fictional characters for real.
@@Docthewrench Nobody gives a fuck about you! Shut up!
@@Docthewrench Feel good about yourself now? Feel like a big man?
Grow up, son.
A major thing that people have to take into account regarding why there is likely so many contradictions between the first three movies and the Swank movie and the show is that Robert Mark Kamen was not a part of the latter two. He didn't write the screenplay for the Swank movie and isn't a writer on the show.
Though the new writers are trying to maintain Kamen's original concept regarding the franchise and characters...they are going to add their own "ideas to it. And with him not there the choreographers are as well. That's why in the Swank movie she's performing Nianchi Sahm Dan a kata from Pat Johnson's style instead of a goju-ryu one. And in the show, Hiro Koda added kushanku from his style. I do want to mention that yoshukai (Koda's art) does include sanchin which is considered the heart and soul of goju-ryu. As well as seisan which is found tang soo do, shotokan (hangetsu), shorin-ryu, shito-ryu...basically any art that can trace its roots back to Okinawa.
Something else to consider is that Miyagi, Sato, and Yukie's generation of Okinawans would have spoken "Uchināguchi", as a first language, not Japanese. In Karate Kid 2, we hear Miyagi's dying father speaking Japanese, but being a generation older than Miyagi, he would have most likely spoken to "everyone" in Uchināguchi. Kimiko and Chozen were part of a younger generation of Okinawans who learned to read, write, and speak in "mainland Japanese" in Okinawan schools.
Yeah, when I saw the next Karate kid, and saw Julie practicing a kata which was Naifanchi (or tekki shodan in Shotokan)
It wasn't shodan it was sandan the third one in the series. Specifically the version found in American tang soo do and shito-ryu that doesn't include the double blocking movement that you also see at the beginning of Heian/Pinan Sandan.
Kumiko would love watching her do kata to the cranberries, that is her favorite concert she went to remember from Cobra Kai. 😉
Omg actually, I never realised the connection! That's an awesome callback/easter egg from the writers!
You just opened an awesome pandoras box!!! This was outstanding and so was Jesse's video. Hope you guys do one one this topic!
It would be an absolute honor to have the opportunity to work with Jesse on a joint Karate Kid/Cobra Kai episode.
Hope it happens
The picture on 5:22 is Aragaki Seisho I think. That is the drawing I found under his name.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arakaki_Seishō
He was a teacher to both Chojun Miyagi (Goju) and Kenwa Mabuni (Shito).
Oh that's interesting... That actually totally supports this theory.
I personally think it more closely resembles Sakugawa Kanga. What do you think? en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakugawa_Kanga
There you go again, making high quality videos... 🖖
To me the Miyagi Do Karate style looks more like Shito Ryu Karate than Goju Ryu Karate. Note Genwa Mabuni the founder of Shito Ryu and Miyagi Chojun the founder of Goju Ryu studied under the same Sensei. Both styles share a lot of similarities in kata and kihon. Shito Ryu on one hand has the crane technique which Goju Ryu doesn't have.
And THATS the answer. Miyagi Do comes from the same source and Goju and Shito. Thats why it has elements of both.
Not to mention Fumio Demuras input which is documented in The Real Miyagi.
What's amazing to me with the katas. If these techniques are used to write they can win a fight before it even starts and it is very true in real life as well
Leave it to Jesse to school the entire community on a subject weve been debating for 2 years. Lol
Oh no joke. I have a ton of respect and admiration for Jesse, what he does and the knowledge he brings. Geeking out over the Karate Kid is one of my favorite things to do. I watch the movies pretty much almost every month and we have a LOT more to look at in future videos. (I just need to spread them out a bit lol).
@@ArtofOneDojo coba kai is the martial arts series i have always wanted and at the same time the karate kid sequel i never knew i wanted! And Jesse is the man i dont think theres much he cant figure out. Maybe someday ill get to meet both u guys at a seminar!
I think it's awesome that this is a sort of response to Jesse's video. The martial arts RUclipsrs are so respectful and inspiring.
When I saw Jesse's video I immediately thought of Ao1D's video. As I was watching it I wondered if he made that video in response to Ao1D.
To add to this the last karate kid that was done should have been named Kung fu kid instead since it was mostly about Kung fu instead.
Not "mostly" but ALL about Kung Fu lol they only put Karate Kid because of the World market is more familiar with that name and they wanted to take advantage. BTW, in China they Did called "The Kung Fu Kid" which is the real name of that movie. "Never Back Down" is also a Karate Kid kind of movie but with MMA instead of Karate.
Well if they were gonna put in the title "The Karate Kid" then I believe that this movie should've took place in Japan, where the main protagonist would learn a stronger kind of Karate like Kyokushin or any style of Karate with a japanese master of them.
I accept you as the one only true and right authority on all things Karate Kid and Cobra Kai.
Honestly though, if you recommend another channel I'll give it a look. That's high praise.
I honestly can't get enough of it. I watch the Karate kid at least one a month, most of the time every week I'll watch my favorite select scenes. They pump me up and help me get focused for the day. I love the whole Trilogy, even Part 3 which is a lot weaker of a movie but still has some of my favorite moments. I do NOT like The Next Karate Kid at all for various reasons I will talk about in a future episode, and I did not care for the Jaden Smith version. Also for various reasons but it felt like a half effort.
I absolutely love Cobra Kai and think that is the best possible sequel we could have gotten. My wife and I even went to a special showing in 2018 at a movie theater event in which they premiered the first two episodes and the original Karate Kid movie. Watching that on the big screen took me RIGHT back to 1984 and was a magical experience :)
@@ArtofOneDojo Since I was teaching Kung Fu when the Jaden Smith movie came out, after I saw it, I was very upset that they didn't call it "The Kung Fu Kid." He didn't learn ANY Karate in it. In fairness, it was more like contemporary Wushu than the Kung Fu I learned, but that's not Karate either. If they're going to be wrong, they could have at least thrown me some free advertising in the meantime, right?
Plus the whole thing with the snake and hypnotising the opponent was just awkward.
No face was cool though.
And I liked Jaden explaining Jackie Chan's fight with the other kids later. "You beat them up, or let them beat each other up, or... umm..."
But other than a very few small highlights like that, there's a reason it was never on my list to collect.
@@ShaunCKennedyAuthor You have touched on one of the issues I take it with it. I followed this closely when it was coming out and I could tell Sony was dropping the ball right away. Will Smith wanted to remake it, and I remember reading an interview where he said he really liked the story and wanted to present it to a new generation but he DIDN'T want to call it "The Karate Kid" because even HE said it was Kung Fu and not Karate. He also said he did not want it called "The Kung Fu Kid" either.
What did Sony do? They immediately released posters that said "The Kung Fu Kid". I actually saw some of them but they are hard to find now, very rare. I thought "whatever". Then shortly after that, they announced they were going to call it "The Karate Kid" afterall. You know it was just for brand recognition and they did NOT care that it was Kung Fu. Do you remember the insulting way they addressed that in the movie? It was when his Mom asked him how he like's Karate and he says "It's not Karate Mom, it's Kung Fu", and she says "Karate, Kung Fu, whatever." THAT was upsetting. That was Sony clearly not caring and going right for the cash grab.
My other issue is...it's almost the exact same film. They took the script of the original, made TINY tweaks and dumped it in China. I saw the movie one time...and can you believe I was able to talk WITH the characters quoting almost every line all the way through on my first watch? The dialogue is about 80% the same.
No chemistry between characters, the Chinese bullies and their coach have ZERO character development or personalities, and changing the romance from teenagers to middle schoolers felt uncomfortable...especially when Jackie Chan had to fight a bunch of 12 year olds.
The whole movie just did not understand what it needed to be and was nothing more than Sony cashing in on the Karate Kid name. I LOVE that the original series has come back and made it forgettable
Okay, I'm stepping off the soapbox now :D
With Naha, Shuri , & tomi te being practiced/taught so close together in area, it would be possible for each to be found in the other.
Kenwa Mabuni the founder of shito-ryu studied under Chojun Miyagi's teacher, Kanryo Higaonna (Naha-te) as well as Anko Itosu (Shuri-te) and several other masters. So they were pretty open to exchanging knowledge back then.
I always thought the style of Miyagi was just a fictional style based on mainly Goju Ryu and some Shito-Ryu (from my limited understanding, the instructor for Pat Morita and Ralph Macchiato was a Shito-Ryu specialist) **pardon any spelling mistakes lol.
Love it. Totally love Sensei Jesse. Would add that Miyagi family not practicing a specific style and Okinawa being a small island, the Miyagi family may be primarily influenced by Goju Ryu, but may have picked up other kata and training methods from other Okinawan Karate masters/students. Possibly like Kenwa Mabuni who loved kata and incorporated as many kata as possible in Shito Ryu
It's funny, I thought just recently that that Kata Robbie and Sam were doing was Kosukun, but I kind of remembered you mentioning in the Kata video, so...probably I missed the chance to beat popular youtubers! 😅
You still get points!
Well Sensei Dan I ascribe to your theory best, after all what Sensei Jesse fails to realise, is that many people associated with the Karate Kid films, have given interviews to various RUclips bloggers. Of which many did confirm that the styles based off in the film, are indeed Goju-Ryu Karate, as well as Tang Soo Do!
It is good that he goes through the efforts, to educate people in the actual history of styles. However movies as you said are for entertainment purposes, of which unless it is a historical film, then true events and content for the most part, films will fictionalise characters, events, styles of martial arts, such as is the case with the Karate Kid films.
You are absolutely correct that the Karate patch on Chozen's Karate gi, is indeed that of Goju-Ryu Karate, so that in itself would confirm that Miyagi-Do Karate, would most likely have been a variation, or derivative of Goju-Ryu Karate.
He identified the portrait of Goju-Ryu Karate founder, Master Miyagi Chojun, yet he himself missed the fact, that amongst the portraits of Mr. Miyagi's ancestors, besides real life Karate Master of Goju-Ryu, Miyagi Chojun's portrait, there was also that of real life and Aikido founder, Master Ueshiba Morihei's portrait as well. His is the one with the gentleman wearing a complete, black Japanese traditional outfit, as well as him having a long white beard and white hair also.
Overall this is done for entertainment, not to give people a historical or martial arts tutorial. Hollywood is always going to inject elements of over the top drama and flamboyance to make a film more commercially successful. Take for instance Dragon The Bruce Lee Story, with Jason Scott Lee, there are so many inaccuracies and historically distorted events, that many people who knew Bruce Lee, such as his family and friends, say that his wife Linda Emery Lee-Cadwell, gave the film makers freedom, to tell the story of Bruce Lee, with some leeway, for the sake of entertainment.
In that film Bruce Lee had his back or spine broken or damaged, by his opponent kicking him right in the back, rendering him temporarily paralysed. However in real life Bruce Lee had hurt his back, due to trying to lift, an excessive and exaggerated, amount of weights. After he fortunately and miraculously recovered from such an injury, he thought twice about how to workout safely and wisely, to achieve his full, physical conditioning and athletic speed, as well as optimum power. However in reality for the film it would not have been entertaining or seen like a big deal to include it in such a way. Donnie Yen's last two Ip Man films tell a much more accurate account of the young Bruce Lee overall.
I look forward to more Cobra Kai analysis and martial arts films in general Sensei Dan. May you have a wonderful weekend ahead, Osu!🇲🇽🇦🇺🥋🙏✌🤟👍
Re the true style of Mr. Miyagi, this is indeed fascinating stuff! In addition, let's not forget Fumio Demura. He was originally asked to play the role (and some say that the Miyagi character is based on him) but apparently didn't due to language difficulties, however he acted as Pat Morita's stunt double in many scenes. His style is Shito-Ryu. Hmmm... ;) Many thanks for the great vid! :) I love this stuff! :)
FIRST! People still do that right? I am old and out of the know...
Well someone has to be first...usually that's me though. I'm the first one who gets to watch it :D
Hey, strike first , strike hard, am I right?
The kanku kata in cobra Kai is also in the style I trained in called Shidokan Shorin Ryu. We have 2 kata called Kanku Sho and Kanku Dai....the floating platform kata is Kanku Dai.
Good talk! I love picking over the details.
I always enjoy watching your videos. It was great that you picked up on Jesse Enkamp's recent video on this topic. It also speaks very highly of you with the way you have spoken about him and indeed for many of us he is the "European Gold Standard' on Okinawan and Japanese karate. So I guess that the piece of the equation we would be missing is the spiritual connection between the kind of karate practiced by the fictional "Miyagi-do" and the different style or styles. Undoubtedly what differentiates "Cobra Kai dojo" from "Miyagi dojo" is the spirituality or the purpose behind the karate being practiced. There is also a very close connection between the principal styles of karate, two of which became the mainstream styles in Japan . This is where I think Jesse Enkamp is on to something in his video: because the style he suggests, which is the one I practice, found its way to Osaka and has become very much a "do" or "way" of karate, which is what happened when the Okinawan art was adapted to the requirements of Japan, just as the Japanese Jiu Jitsu evolved into Judo. In Shito Ryu we also look very much at other styles and in most katas explain how the same kata would be performed for example in Shotokan. As Jesse has always said, karate is like a tree with many different branches, but it is still the same tree. He also said that it is like a mountain and the different styles are different paths up the mountain; and the closer you get to the top (although we know we never actually get to the top) the more all the different styles converge. I love the suggestions being made by other commentators about you doing a video together with Jesse.
Kanryo Higaonna Sensei;s picture is up there. He is the one who taught Chojun Miyagi. Remember...All Okinawan Karate was was known as Okinawa Te, (Okinawan hand), so there are many "styles" that were incorporated. I train and teach USA Goju Karate, founded by Master Peter Urban. It incorporates Aiki Jiu Jitsu, Shotokan and Japanese Goju Ryu Karate.
Which shot has his picture in it? I've seen photos of him but most of these seem to be drawings.
Naha-Te Karate???? Love the show, love the channel
It is very common for competent Karatekas to incorporate other disciplines which they previously learnt. I was trained in Ashihara Karate, which was branched out from Kyokushin. Kancho Ashihara had a competent student named Ninomiya, who started Enshin Ryu, he incorporated Judo. And the list goes on. Personally, my local Sensei was trained in Hapkido. He taught me wrist locks & staff techniques which was not in the Ashihara syllabus. In conclusion, cross incorporation of different arts is common.
It's a MOVIE!!! Y'all overthinking this. Hollywood always takes "dramatic license" and changes thing. As a side note: Kanei Uechi learned Uechi-ryu from his father Kanbun (called Pan Gai Noon at the time). Kiyohide Shinjo is the son and student of Seiyu Shinjo (Uechi Ryu). I am not buying into father's did not teach their sons. I believe some have, some haven't. I doubt it was a general rule whether they did or not. People from other Okinawan styles can elaborate on this (or not).
Right...which is why I say "it's just a movie" but it's also "fun to do". Nothing wrong with exploring something you love and appreciate.
Thanks for your video, Following on from my previous comment on your related video, (we are not totally sure that Mr Miyagi’s brief glimpse of a kata is clearly a Goju ryu kata) Maybe we could ask a Shito Ryu or Shuti te practitioner if they recognise it.
I think it is like always. We see something and we want it to fit somehow even if we dont know how to do it. Karatekas are doing it in bunkais and now in TV series😂
For those who are curious. The taolu we see Jaden Smith perform in the Jackie Chan Karate Kid (there may be more but this is the only one I remember) is the wu bu quan, or fist of the five steps. It is the entry level form in the majority of wushu schools.
Great as always! 👏
Nice follow up, love the shout out to the Karate Nerd
My 5 cents of the story is that there is different versions of karate styles. My son was part of a Goju-Ryu Dojo that did a specific version of Goju-Ryu. For example they did 16 katas and not the core 13 katas at that school. In the beginning of the year we moved him to a new Goju-Ryu Dojo. There they do a different version of Goju-Ryu again. They focus on the 13 main katas, but these katas also differ in version from the previous dojos katas.
I believe it’s a representation of Isshinryu, daughter style of GojuRyu, founded by Tatsuo Shimabuku in the early 50s. He trained with Miyagi and combined different styles and Katas from Shito Ryu, Goju Ryu and Shorin Ryu for this system. When learning insshinryu, it was pointed out to me that upper body basic #7 (open hand side block, shuto to body) is “wax on wax off”. Also, each of the Okinawan kata shown in the films are in the Isshinryu system (seiunchin, naihanchi) as well as the upper body basic punches and blocks. In the end most styles borrow and build from previous systems so it’s not a huge distinction, but pretty interesting
Does the Isshinryu system have moves and katas from cobra Kai tv show?
Yes, also, see another of Jesse's video about why all Karate styles are "fake", and, it bears out your theory. Bear in mind that Miyagi FORMALIZED his techniques and kata into the curriculum of Goju Ryu; they all existed long before Goju. Also, as another commenter here pointed out, Daniel could have studied other styles since Mr. Miyagi.
Awesome video
Sensi Fumio Demura was a SIGNIFICANT influence in the Karate Kid movies. Researching his history may fill in the "gap" between the Kata forms and philosophy being betrayed in the flims and a generic version of karate techniques used in the popular Cobra Kai series...
The key to everything is Pat Johnson. He trained all the original actors and choreographed all the films, including the Swank version. He's basically the only one who can truly tell us how much influence Robert Mark Kamen (goju-ryu) and Fumio Demura (shito-ryu) had physically during the productions.
Remember, just because Kamen was the creator of the franchise and the characters doesn't mean he was around 100% of the time on set. Same with Demura. He was Morita's primary stunt double, but that doesn't mean he was around Morita 100% of his time on set either including training. He had to deal with the choreography for the scenes he was in.
Here's something to think about...in the Swank movie she performs Nianchi Sahm Dan, which is a form from Johnson's style (that is also found in shito-ryu). Demura was Morita's double in that movie as well. Besides seiyunchin/seienchin, shito-ryu with the exception of the two gekisai kata includes every kata taught in goju-ryu. So the question is, why weren't any of those "Naha" kata used instead? Johnson had Demura there to work with him. Perhaps Demura wasn't as influential on the karate aspect as we thought and more so regarding Morita's portrayal.
I'd love to see a video tackling The Next Karate Kid. It's actually my second favourite. Karate Kid 2, The Next Karate Kid, Karate Kid, and Karate Kid 3 would be my personal ranking
I have to be honest and say I've never met anyone who liked The Next Karate Kid more than the original.
I do plan to cover it in the near future, but I do have several issues with the film and do no care for it. My personal favorites are in the order they were released.
@@ArtofOneDojo I totally respect that. There is no denying that the film is flawed!
However Hillary Swank's acting was superb, and I could personally relate more to Julie's rash defiance than to Daniel's option of avoiding and hiding (after that initial confrontation on the beach).
I think that also ties into why I prefer Karate Kid 2 to the original, as Daniel is a more competent and assured martial artist who tackles high stakes issues. The third movie seemed to sadly revert him both in terms of skill and courage.
Where I would say the original is better than the Next Karate Kid is in the way it includes humourous moments into the movie without taking away from the tension.
Just my own perspective on those movies.
My Okinawa kempo sensei said the there was over 300 self defence moves in Nihanchi shodan & it was to take a lifetime to master & find all of them.
I would believe that for sure.
The photo that Miyagi and Daniel are looking at at 5:22 appears to be Kanryo Higaonna, one of Chojun Miyagi's teachers.
On the issue of Cobra Kai's origin being Japanese or Korean, a number of fan sites say: "Kim Sun-Yung was a Karate master in South Korea who trained John Kreese in the art of Karate." You would "think" that because Kim Sun-Yung is Korean, that the martial art he taught in his homeland would also be Korean, but that might not be the case. We also never hear Korean words used in the Cobra Kai dojo in the Karate Kid series.
Actually we do, Johnny calls out "Choon bi" in Cobra Kai season one to call the class to attention.
@@ArtofOneDojo but more often "QUIET!" Hilarious line
@@ArtofOneDojo
True that. I checked it out myself. Johnny definitely uses "choon-bi", which would the korean equivalent to "yoi" in japanese Karate. What puzzles me is that they keep calling Kreese "Sensei" while the korean word for it would be either "Sabeomnim" or "gyosanim".
@@keysielcarnero473 Could be for different reasons. Look at Sensei Ichi's RUclips channel. He goes by Sensei but he's American Tang Soo Do. He's part Japanese so he decided to go with Sensei. We also have a Tang Soo Do school out here that has "Karate" on he building and they also use Sensei and Dojo. I think a lot of times schools use terms that are familiar with the public, or there is a blend of influence in them.
It's also possible that Kreese is a mix of styles too.
John Kreese i'm guessing, learned his martial arts in between the 60s and 70's. So its most likely that he learned the old version of Tang soo do that you can see in the old "Korean Karate" books. Its also well documented that when the soldiers returned to the U.S. they blend Korean Tang soo Do with the Japanese Karate that was already stablish at that time, that's the reason why many Tang Soo Do schools interchange their name with Karate and use japanese terminology sometimes.
🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽I made similar points on Jesse's vid
Sinanju is a fictional Korean martial art (the "Sun Source" of all martial arts) of the cult paperback book series The Destroyer, by Warren Murphy and Richard Sapir. The Destroyer series lampoons politicians, politics, and other adventure novels, and features gory violence on evildoers, martial art adventures and more. Chiun comes from a long line of hired assassins called the House of Sinanju that has pursued its trade since before the time of the pharaohs. (Chiun explains that Tutankhamun was killed by a Sinanju master after attempting to defraud the House by reneging on a contract.) Sinanju is a village on the coast of North Korea; the Korean translation is, literally, "comfortable new village". Historically, revenues from the House's contracts have been used to support the inhabitants. (The village should not be confused with the city of the same name.) Early disciples of the art used weapons, but the later practitioners developed virtually superhuman abilities through the training as it became revised following the ascension of Master Wang, the greatest master of the art up until modern times. Sinanju training enables one to hold one's breath for over an hour, rip steel doors from their hinges, climb walls, dodge bullets (even at point-blank range), overturn a moving tank, outrun a car, seem invisible, overcome multiple opponents, and bring a woman to the heights of sexual ecstasy.
According to Chiun, the other martial arts in the world (kung fu, ninjutsu, etc.) are all seriously diluted imitations of Sinanju. He compares the other arts to rays of sunshine with Sinanju being the sun itself. He also refers to an ancient Sinanju legend which predicts that the greatest master in the history of the art will be a dead white Night Tiger (Sinanju acolyte) "made whole by the art." Remo Williams appears to fit the description in Chiun's estimation.
The Wa: A line of assassins that was taught by an ancient master of Sinanju how to use knives effectively. They tried to betray the village of Sinanju to its enemies and were forced to flee to Japan, where they operated until the 20th century.
The Wissex: An English house of assassins that were created after a master of Sinanju received a retainer to train an auxiliary assassin from the court of Henry the Eighth to serve in his absence. This group was trained in poisons and other arts that the House of Sinanju had abandoned following the ascension of Master Wang.
The Sun On Jo: An American Indian tribe founded by a Master of Sinanju named Kojong who journeyed to America centuries earlier. He taught his descendant how to fight, walk silently across sand without disturbing it and other tricks, but imposed a decree on them that they must not take human life - this was done so the main house would not face future competitors. He also passed on the Sinanju-derived abilities to his eldest son, whose own firstborn sons would be called by the name "Sunny Joe". Remo Williams' father Bill Roam is a member of this tribe and a direct descendant of Kojong, confirming what Chiun had long suspected about Remo's Korean heritage.[5] Remo's son and daughter (Stone Smith and Freya Williams) are being taught Sinanju by Bill Roam in the "Legacy" series , co-authored by Gerald Welch and Warren Murphy until Murphy's death in 2015. Welch continues the series.
As i said in the Jesse Enkamp channel.. In the movies you had more martial artists in the creative team and they tried to keep it more into the traditional Karate.
But in the series, The showrunners and writers aren't martial artists. So as you mention, its a choice from choreographer, Sensei Hiro Koda, who trains a style called Yukosai Karate that blends Japanese and Okinawan Karate and since he have competed in the U.S. open tournaments, he have also develop a flashier style for his techniques.
So thats why you see in the movies they tried a more faithful representation of the Karate techniques (Goju Ryu - Tang soo Do) and in the series is more like an eclectic form (American Karate).
Doesn't have to do anything with history or research, just creative choices for the show.
Note: about the Naihanchi Kata.. Actually Chojun Miyagi in his essay called "Historical Outline of Karate Do" he does mention Naihanchi togeter with Sanchin and Tensho as part of the Fundamental Kata training. So maybe at one point, he DID included Naihanchi as part of the Goju Ryu or maybe as a supplementary formative Kata.
Yes Jesse is definitely Awesome
Gojuryu and Gojukai are similar but with marked differences.
5:25 looks like Tode Sakugawa sensei
I had believed the first movie was essentially about Goju-ryu since the first time I saw it. I didn't follow the rest of the movies. I think I recall Jesse mentioning Shito-ryu, but I didn't think much more about it because Kenwa Mabuni (Shito-ryu) and Chojun Miyagi (Goju-ryu) had both studied under Higaonna Kanryo (Naha-te). The last image in the movie Miyagi's dojo you showed above reminded me of Tode Sakugawa. That doesn't make literal sense because he was a pioneer of what would later be Shuri-te. I think all those images were redrawn and may actually be no one in particular historically.
Chosen miyagi may have been a brother of Mr miyagi that was never mentioned, maybe goju ryu is chosens version of his father's karate....or as we know, Daniel has been back to Okinawa several times, maybe he, like must martial artists has practiced with other masters and modified his teaching to his own students
Chojun Miyagi died in 1953, theoretically could have been Mr. Miyagi's grandfather.
@@freemanchrisx true, my goju ryu history is great, grandfather could have been possible.
Are you saying CHOJUN Miyagi the founder, or Chozen Toguchi, the bad guy from Karate Kid 2?
@@ArtofOneDojo chojun the founder of goju ryu, as I said Dan, it's not my area of expertise 😂
Jesse seems great, but poking around, he seems very Karate focused. I'm just curious, do you know any other youtubers who focus on other styles (Kung Fu, Taekwondo, whatever?) to the same degree Jesse does Karate? I watch Matt Easton for HEMA history, development, and criticism and then kind of had you for all the eastern stuff, but I hadn't known about Jesse and now I wonder what else I'm missing.
Jesse is very Karate focused, but he does it REALLY well. I highly recommend watching his "Karate Nerd in Okinawa" series where he visits Okinawa and trains at different dojos. VERY fascinating. He has lived in Okinawa and trained both there and Japan and grew up in a Karate family. I consider him a high authority on traditional Karate and his channel is one of my favorites.
Sergio from practical combat martial arts does kung fu and muay thai training videos. He is a good one to check out and randy Brown mantis boxing
Well his (trademarked) nickname is the "Karate Nerd". Jesse is a second generation karateka and the older brother of former UFC fighter Oliver Enkamp. Not sure about his father (rank, alive or passed away), but his mother is one of the highest ranking black belts in the world. He's lived and attended school in Japan and studied with some of the highest ranking masters on Okinawa. In terms of being the top authority on Okinawan karate, its very close between him and Patrick McCarthy. Though Jesse would tell you its Patrick.
@@barrettokarate That's because Jesse is classy that way. I admire and respect his knowledge on the arts.
So, is Miyagi cannonically Chogin Miyagi's son? I figure that he is a grandson or a nephew, which could explain the mixed style.
Also, Miyagi Do could be a fictional family style that is derived from Goju-Ryu and incorparated other Okinawan techniques. 🤷♂️
Very good
It seems that these are details screen writers are not careful enough to address. They got all the karate mixed up perhaps because accuracy was not the goal. Sadly it does minimize the work being presented even though in this case it is not of major consequence since the show does have other odd choices that undermine the narrative. Perhaps the biggest one would be going from a light hearted fun underdog story to this dark and bizarre karate Avengers like show down. Not a great artistic choice specially considering that there are children that are watching. Back to the karate Okinawan karate prior to the 20s was more individualized. Techniques were accommodated to suit the individual for the sake of function and application which is why there is so much variation in kata nontheless Te comes primarily from two larger schools of thought those being the karate performed in Shuri and the karate from Naha. This later on becomes Shorin and Shorei. The first favor speed and linear attacks while the later involved more circular motions along side with the development of muscle mass, body hardening and employed many grappling resources. From these two general approaches we get several teachers. Upon Kiano Jigoro's visit to Okinawa they had the local Te masters do a presentation for him. Since Te was not thought of as having styles the demonstrators simply used the name of their village to identify their practice. This is more or less when we start getting into the notion of labeling styles. To people back then it was simply all different ways to do Te and fact students would study under different masters and even with people that came from China, Japan and Siam which is nowadays Thailand. With the issue in question perhaps it would not be uncommon for people in Okinawa to know katas from the two general schools of thought. For example Funakoshi used both systems in his teaching just as later Isshin Ryu does as well. Does it mean Miyagi Do is Goju? Maybe yes, maybe no, nonetheless I have seen teachers incorporate katas from other system when they felt it suited a particular need so that could be a way to look at this.
Oh and also I think a valid point was missed brought up by my buddy shane...kung fu stylist fyi...lol. kk2 miyagi says karate started by miyagi family ancestor.
1625. Like all Miyagi, Shimpo sensei was fisherman. Loved fishing. Love saki. One day strong go wind, strong go sun, strong go saki, but no fish. Shimpo sensei fall asleep off coast of Okinawa wake up off coast of China. 10 years later he come back to Okinawa with Chinese wife and 2 kids children and secret of Miyagi family karate.
That's the big problem with having new people come in and takeover another writer's creation. They sometimes ignore certain things either by accident or on purpose and add their own take on it. Hell, Will and Jada Smith weren't even writers and they completely added their own take to the "remake". So much there wasn't one shred of karate in it despite the name.
Most likely ... They wanted a kata that suited Hilary Swank, and one that would work on a floating circle, because it looked good, my guess, and used them, trusting the fact that most people would not know any way.
Another guess is that Julies father perhaps did not find a Goju Ryu dojo to practice in and trained with some other style for a while, and taught Julie that one, and Daniel says that he _read_ about some excercise for working together. Maybe he actually studies all kinds of things about karate, especially now with his rekindled interest, and having to become the teacher, and decided that doing kankudai synchronized was good training for his top students.
Many instructors do invite other styles and arts, doing very different classes, teaching grappling, falling techniques or katas from other styles, or yoga or even aerobic dance.
Another quality video
in karate kid 4, kata tekki o naihachi
Despite fiction I knew Miyagi Family Karate was *Goju Ryu Karate* base on kata and technical uses of combat. Including Miyagi explanation of his family karate. Cobra Kai is quite the mystery though. Terry Silver said his teacher from Korea taught him and John Kreese together. I know it's not Hapkido and Taekwondo. But, it could fall under Tang Soo Do, Muk Duk Kwan, Soo Bahk Do, or Sipalki. In relation of those arts. Despite Cobra Kai not providing a kata to its form. Overall, I seen every single movie. Mr Miyagi is a aspiring character.
Hey, theres a movie called undisputed 3 redemption that has a really good capoeira fight scene in it. Can you manybe talk about and the other fight scenes in it?
Its simple The shito ryu Founder also trained under The teacher of master Miyagi goju Founder Higaona/ Higashiona Kanryo. The cobra Kai stuff, in Miyagi do, as some we see in karate kid, could be shito, since Demura Sensei was shito ryu
I think jesse ekkamp is wright.. the Fumio Demura' influence was very important on the development of the karate style. He practice Shito Ryu Karate Do
I saw a picture of the founder of aikido morie uieshiba .when daniel and miyagi was watching the the picture in the cener after he did the kata in karate kid 2
Miyagi turbo kai. That's why Daniel learned so quickly
5:16 - The first picture on the left looks very like Seisho Aragaki 新垣 世璋, 1840-1918. He taught Kanryo Higashionna 東恩納 寛量 who of taught both Kenwa Mabuni and Chojun Miyagi
I suspect that the answer given in the Jesses video is correct. Still, you do have a point it could easily be an Okinawan style containing any combination of Kata from Shuri-te and Naha-Te.
When I saw the video I wondered if might be the Seiko Higa-Kanki Izumikawa lineage of Goju Ryu (he was a student of Chojun Miyagi). it includes Naihachi and Nepai that more popular Goju Ryu styles do not. - I read that information in Goju-Ryu Toudi by Jutsu Nyumon. According to the book Naihaichi although regarded as a Shuri-te Kata was included in Goju ryu at one point
.
On page 179 he also states that a few extra Naha-Te kata have been preserved and only taught to seniors. It also appears very focused on the softer side with techniques from the bubishi to me the movements look more Kung FU than standard Gojuryu.
I've mentioned this before on some of Dan's videos on the subject. The key to Miyagi-do is the creator of the franchise Robert Mark Kamen. In the original trilogy I'm going to say that the original basis for Miyagi-do was goju-ryu since that was his system. However, after the third movie he was no longer physically involved with the franchise. He didn't write the screenplay for the Hilary Swank movie, definitely wasn't involved in the Will Smith one and is not currently a writer on the show and isn't around to be a goju-ryu "technical advisor".
Because of that that's why Miyagi-do has been changing since the Swank movie. Although the new writers have tried to keep it as original to Kamen's vision as possible, they're going to add their own ideas to the characters and story. Doesn't matter how many times they've watched the movies they'll never have the same attachment to Miyagi, Daniel, Kreese or Johnny as Kamen does.
Same with the choreographers. With Kamen not around as an advisor on goju-ryu they're going to choreograph the projects with what they know. Pat Johnson who choreographed all four movies is an American Tang Soo Do stylist. We don't have tensho, shisochin or seiyunchin, but we do have Nianchi Sahm Dan which is the kata that Swank did in her movie. The show is primarily choreographed by yoshukai stylist Hiro Koda and assisted by people like taekwondo and hapkido master Simon Rhee. Koda is going to add his own style and kata to the show.
Had Kamen never left it could have been sanchin or kururunfa in the Swank movie instead of Nianchi Sahm Dan or seisan or suparimpei in the show instead of kushanku. But with Kamen gone Miyagi-do has evolved because I'm pretty sure spinning heel kicks and capoiera style handstand kicks were never moves he envisioned being in Miyagi-do.
I noticed that they were doing kanku Dai a few weeks ago..I figured it's because they're stupid and they had no idea it wasn't a Goju Ryu Kata...kanku Dai is a beautiful Kata, I love it, even though I'm a Goju Ryu student myself
Its because the choreographer Hiro Koda is a yoshukai karate stylist and he's doing his own thing. Same as Pat Johnson did in the Hilary Swank movie where she did a Tang Soo Do form. With Robert Mark Kamen not there as a kind of I guess a goju-ryu technical advisor each choreographer is left to his own devices within reason.
Difference between Tang Soo Do and yoshukai is that the latter does include some Naha-te kata, specifically sanchin. Though its doubtful that will be demonstrated since the show is looking for flashier stuff (capoiera style kick in the tournament scene). But yoshukai does include a version of seisan (which is also found in Tang Soo Do) so we might see parts of that one on day. Though is it noticeably different than versions I've seen in goju-ryu so it wouldn't be exact either.
You skipped over Fumio Demuras input which is documented in The Real Miyagi. I think I'm in camp Shitō Ryū but loving the go between. Two of my fav channels 😃
We went over that in more detail with "What Kind of Karate is in Cobra Kai Part 2"
@@ArtofOneDojo Nice one. Never miss a beat. Great research. Your the channel I interact with most on YT. Keep up the great work.
On a surface level I see Kenpo influences in Cobra Kai Karate, along with tang soo do; "Way Of The Fist", black competition gi's, use of the word sensei instead of sabumnim, just minor things, but definitely not a traditional Korean art. Them kicks, tho.
It's interesting because I know some Tang Soo Do schools that will use the Japanese words. They use Sensei, Karate, and Dojo. I think a lot of it is that it has largely become "Americanized". In American Kenpo we actually don't traditionally use the word Sensei. Most of the time it's simply Mr. and Mrs. (Why I go by Mr. Dan, it was my teaching name). Sometimes you'll see Sifu used by those who want to be more traditional since American Kenpo is more Chinese than Japanese.
Great one. I watched Karate Nerd episode yesterday. And great point, he's on top of Okinawa training. You got the movie portion. And watching Cobra Kai the timeline for Danielle competing is somewhat explained. He would have been probably 18 about to turn 19 in Karate Kid 3, so he could still compete in tournament. Pushing it, but it could work.
There is a bit of discrepancy in Daniel's age, it's one of the few things of the series that bothers me that I can't 100% peg.
In the first film, the tournament was on December 19th, in 1984. Daniel's birthday is December 18th because he was celebrating it with Miyagi the day before and he was talking about how nervous he was about the tournament and then when he went to go see Ali he mentions that it's "tomorrow" so we know the tournament is the day after his birthday.
He also got his driver's license that day, which implies he just turned 16 which makes him qualify for the "under 18 All Valley Tournament". Karate Kid 2 takes place the next summer in 85, and in Karate Kid part 3 they are coming back from Okinawa and Daniel is forced to compete in the 85 tournament. Providing it's the same date, he would be 17 when the tournament was held making him eligable.
HOWEVER...he was supposed to go to College that same fall of 85, which would make him entering college at 16? 17 can happen, but 16 is rare and Daniel is not a prodigy. So that seems to be odd.
OR....what if he's 16 in part 1 and TURNS 17 right before the tournament in 84? Then he'd graduate high school at 17 which some people do. And what if the tournament wasn't on the 19th in part 3, but say earlier in the month? All it had to be was 2 days earlier and Daniel would still have been 17, therefore still qualifying.
December 19 in 1984 was a Wednesday though, so an odd night for a tournament, especially considering in Cobra Kai season one the tournament was held on May 19th, 2018 which was a Saturday. (This is assuming the show starts in 2018 since that's the release date, not 100% sure if they mentioned a year).
OR...
If Daniel was 17 and turned 18 before the tournament in Part 3...maybe as long as you are 17 when you sign the application you still qualify?
I'm not really sure, they keep it a little vague and the age thing I have not been entirely clear on.
I've thought WAY too hard about this lol.
@@ArtofOneDojo Oh I think about it all the time too. Now in Karate Kid 3 he was defending his title, so it would have to be a year later.
@@5dragonskarategoryukarate-890 It definitely was one year later because they announced Daniel as the first winner of two years in a row, which means Daniel won the 1984 and 1985 tournaments. We know that Johnny also won two years as well, but they couldn't have been back to back. We know he won in 1983 because Johnny was pep talking a sick Tommy in Cobra Kai, calling him a fighter and says "Hey, who beat Vidal in 83 to get to the Semis?" and Tommy responds "yeah, but who beat me?" And Johnny smiles and says "well you didn't make it easy". So we know Johnny won 1983 and 81 if he won twice but they weren't back to back.
So who the heck won 1982??? I'm putting my bets on Vidal.
@@ArtofOneDojo Of course one should not over think Karate Kid. But I do the same. And have argued Daniel should have been disqualified for kicking to the face. And how easy it is to actually defend crane kick. But that's what makes it so much fun too.
@@5dragonskarategoryukarate-890 You think Daniel should have been disqualified? Have you seen my "Is the Crane Kick Legal?" video? I go into that there :D
True
Pls Make a video on kyokushin influences on k1 and dutch kickboxing as well as the 1964 bout in Thailand.
How about Fumio Demura? :)
Excellent point! We did talk about him in one of the episodes, if you look in the description click on "What kind of Karate is in Cobra Kai PART 2" and his section is there :)
Well systems are blurred however I have a theory. The Cobra Kai show wanted a more flashy look to the show. So plain and simple add more stuff in.
I was thinking about you channel after watching his video LOL. I hope you two do a collaboration video
If that was something he was open to doing, that would be an honor.
It really did not occur to me before, but we do have to look stuff with this. Pat Morita Stunt double was shitto ryu Demura Sensei. Shi to ryu means style of Anko Itoso and Higashiona Kanryo. Shito Founder Kenwa Mabuni, lived in Naha for some time and practiced alongside Miyagi. Shito is só called The mix of nahate and shurite. Therefore goju katas and shuri line katas together, why Not?
Miyagi do could be a line of Itoso mix to Higashiona Kanryo. One that would be closer to goju in some parts and not in others. Then again its a movie, but Demura Sensei, - All respect to him,. Was Shito ryu master
The next to the last picture on the wall looked like
O-sensei uyeshiba.
It is picture of Morihei Ueshiba found of Aikido, so I believe they just randomly hang up martial artists in the film not so much related to karate.
I'm not 100% convinced is Ueshiba, there are several other Okinawan Master that look like that. A couple of viewers have sent messages with closer matches.
@@ArtofOneDojo Yes, there is a picture of Ueshiba go back to 5:22 in the Karate Kid 2 movie scene.
I just saw Jesse video a few days
Some of the pic in the Miyagi family dojo look like they came out of the Bubishi .
Did you do a Tang Soo Do Origins in your show?
We haven't yet no, but I would like to one day.
Please do a video on the revelations made in season 3
It's coming :)
In China fathers taught there sons and they were given all the patriarchs knowledge, it continued in okinawa and this is why some techniques were lost. However I do believe that all styles of karate were at one point a single style and some kata were invented later history and lineage does point to that. Its possible that styles may have been mixed for the movies.
there's another movie with that kata or a similar called Never Back Down 2 done by Lyoto Machida and Micheal Jai white and is again done in the sequel with more speed and power by Micheal Jai White to beat a fighter
That was Tekki Shodan in shotokan, also known as Naihanchi Shodan in every other system of Japanese and Okinawan karate, Nianchi Cho Dan in Tang Soo Do. Its the first of a series of three. The one from the Hilary Swank movie is the third kata in the series.
In the scene where White defeats the MMA fighter its two kata (anan and seipai) that he uses.
@@barrettokarate good remembering
Well in season 3 yes cobra kai officially spoilers. Is tansodo
I have 11 years of wrestling experience and I’m 15 I started wrestling when I was 4 and I’m going to start tang soo do is that a good art for me with my past skill please give me feedback anyone
If you have a solid grappling background, then you'll want a good striking system to compliment it. Karate/Tang Soo Do can be good choices, a good American Kenpo school as well, but especially boxing or Muay Thai. Find a good balance of ground fighting, stand up grappling, and a striking system and you'll have a well rounded skillset.
Art of One Dojo Thank you for you Advice it was very help full keep up the good work love your videos
@@ArtofOneDojo “find a good balance” ha
Did anyone notice that sato wears red belt in karate kid 2 I thought he was taught belts didn’t matter by Mr. miyagi’s father. Guess he uses belts when he teaches or maybe learned another martial art?
Sato turned toward a path of commercialization and business. It's clear that after he and Mr. Miyagi had their falling out Sato turned inward towards his resentment.
I commented on your old video regarding the miyagi style. That it was a mix goju ryu and shito ryu. Because of demura's influence in the training aspect. You didn't agree back then....
I still maintain that Miyagi Do as it is presented to us in the films is Goju Ryu. I'm will to be open to the idea that the previous generation may have been Shito Ryu and also be willing to admit you could have been right. Also, at the time of that video we had not seen Kanku evident as Season 2 wasn't released yet. I think Jesse could be right with the background, but Miyagi Do as we know it I believe is still primarily Goju Ryu.
It was from Ishin Ryu... 🤜🏿👁🤛🏿
Okay, y'all realize that "The Karate Kid" was make believe; right? :) Peace.
:: Sticks fingers in ears :: LALALALALALALALALA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!! LALALALALALALALA
Yeah, Jesse was wrong (it had to happen at some point) Miyago-Do is based on (or an extention of) Goju and so the founder picture makes sense. No mistake.
People don't realise that, like religion, if you change one thing (include something different) it's a new style. Take Karate style A and perform kata 4 the way style B do it... and it's NOT Karate style A anymore. It's different.
I agree to a point, though I don't necessarily agree that making small changes suddenly makes it a whole new art. In American Kenpo, one of our early kata point out and demonstrate the 3 main power generation techniques. Rotation is the first example and the first move is the step and and rotate with a hammering block, and then rotate outward with a swordhand to the neck. (The next sequence demonstrates back up mass, and the next sequence demonstrates gravity). However, some people like to change that sword hand as more of a dropping strike, opting for gravity over rotation. It changes the base concept but that doesn't mean it's no Longer "Style A". It's still American Kenpo because the underlying principles are still intact.
You aren't going to find a Goju ryu, Shito Ryu, White Crane, Tang Soo Do, BJJ grappler, or any martial arts that does their system exactly the same as another. There are always subtle differences.
The style changes really come into play when you start to change/adapt/combine ideology and making changes to the underlying principles of the system.
You’re ignoring a few things. Jesse points one of them out in his video. 1. Karate originated from Kung fu systems. The kata in the original film is also very similar to tai chi. The crane kick clearly comes from white crane and that is part of some modern karate systems such as shaolin kempo. That system draws heavily from Kung fu. 2. Who says it is a strict “style”. In the original film myagi didn’t have a belt system. “No need rope hold up pants”. And flash forward to the fight between Jonny and kreese in cobra Kai when Jonny does the flip kick sort of that Bruce Lee used “Kreese: I taught you everything you know, Jonny: not everything!” Style is a made up concept. Your personal style becomes many things so who’s to say myagi didn’t adapt different techniques?
So what exactly am I ignoring? We have several episodes that cover the styles of Cobra Kai and Karate Kid and in each of them I make the claim that I believe that Cobra Kai is based on Tang Soo Do and Miyagi do is based on Goju Ryu...or some form of them. I've also been open and said their could be other influences in there. That's not ignoring anything, and the fact that Karate originated from Kung Fu systems really isn't relevant to the topic being discussed here.
The question was whether or not Mr. Miyagi's Karate was based on Goju Ryu. He says it was a mistake by the show and it is Shito Ryu instead. I'm simply pointing out that it could be BOTH. That the family history could be Shito Ryu or a mix of many of the local Okinawan styles (which yes are blended with Chinese arts but that didn't seem relevant to pull forward). The movies and show almost outright tell us it's Goju Ryu.
I think Jesse is right on the history and the reason I made this update is to also point out that I think Jesse discovered something much more fun in that Miyagi's family Karate system has generational differences. The is no debate or doubt that Mr. Nariyoshi Miyagi was not in some degree based on Chojun Miyagi and his art. But I really like the idea that when Chojun Miyagi came forward with his system that the Miyagi family picked it up and that could be one of the main focuses of Mr. Miyagi's upbringing.
You also kinda reiterate what I said, but just reversed it. You're asking my why I can't consider that Mr. Miyagi may have picked up other style influences. That's correct, he could have....but I think it makes much more sense to flip that around in that Miyagi's FATHER adapted new influences and passed them into his training and what he passed down to his son (Nariyoshi Miyagi). We see no indication in the films that Mr. Miyagi sought out anything new or different, but rather passed down what he knew to Daniel.
I fully believe that Jesse and I are both right, that Jesse nailed the Miyagi family history, but I think Goju Ryu got mixed in and that became more of the primary focus for Mr. Miyagi.
Art of One Dojo wasn’t saying anyone was wrong but it is clear to me that Johnny adapted his skills beyond what Kreese taught. We never saw that kick Daniel cannot do in any of the films that I remember anyway. I chimed in because along with knowing that talking about this keeps the show popular so awesome. Secondly, I like discussing stuff like this.
@@victoriadillard7270 You are right, we never see Daniel try that kick in any of the films...because he learned it later. In Season 1 Daniel tells Robby that the kick was one of the last things Miyagi taught him and that "I almost did it once in my 20's". Now this is really interesting because it paints a bit of a strange picture in which it doesn't seem like Daniel trained with Mr. Miyagi all that long after Karate Kid 3 perhaps? Here is what we do know:
Daniel was 17 in Karate Kid 3
In the "Next Karate Kid", Daniel is at college and Miyagi goes to visit Julie's family so.
If that technique is one of the last things he learned and it he almost did it in his 20's, this implies Miyagi stopped teaching him when Daniel was in his 20s. At least new material.
So if you account the few years Daniel is in college this really doesn't leave a lot of time for Miyagi to teach him. And we don't know if Daniel meant at age 21 or 29.
We also see Daniel teaching Samantha when she was a kid, and she was 8 years old when she stopped (she's 16 in Cobra Kai and she mentions it's been 8 years since she trained".
What we can put together from that though is...Anthony would have been really young around that time...a toddler. The show takes place in 2018 and Miyagi's tombstone says "2011", so 7 years.
I think there are enough hints there to PRESUME that one year prior, when Sam was 8, perhaps Mr. Miyagi started getting sick. Daniel stopped teaching her to deal with it, plus they had a young child. Miyagi dies and that dojo is turned into a storage unit. Do you remember the very first two things Daniel pulls out when restoring the dojo? A stroller and a funeral wreath.
Danie's Karate got burried under "family responsibility and death". So there is another 7 years Daniel didn't train.
This really isn't super relevant to the points you made, but it's a fun challenge to try to put little clues together and figure out the big picture. I'm hoping Season 3 gives us even more clues.
Art of One Dojo well it is also easy to presume Johnny stops training because when he fights the kids outside the store in episode 1 he gets a cramp, however he was able to rebound from that quickly by the time he begins training Miguel. It is also easy to presume he trained elsewhere after Kreese. In the beginning of karate kid 2 when Kreese has him in a choke hold I doubt his training with Kreese continues. Flash forward to cobra Kai Kreese: “I taught you everything you know”, Johnny: “Not everything”.
I also wonder if Daniel continued training with other instructors? He kept it up enough to train Sam years later.
If I remember correctly some of the moves Julie used in “The next Karate kid” were not used in what we see in Daniels Training correct me if I’m wrong it’s been awhile since I watched the movies.
I also seem to remember the flip kick Johnny uses on Kreese used by Jaden Smith in the remake.
I am enjoying this exchange because if we are thinking about this on this level others are also.
January 8th season 3 premieres. Season 4 is in production.
What about Shito Ryu given the original karate influence in the first movie; Fumio Demura
That is the style Jesse Enkamp suggested it was. In this video I was explaining how our theories can both be right. Shito Ryu COULD be the early base of it, but I think Goju Ryu is mainly what Miyagi Do is currently.
They probably put in a kata that they thought was cool & didn’t think further. Writings of many people in entertainment talk often how things were put in due to how cool it was.
Call me a heretic, but I do hope that Julie does show up in COBRA KAI (with adjustments, of course). Julie could easily be Sam's teacher for instance.
It seems Miyagi Do Karate es more Shito Ryu than Goyu Ryu. As the Shito Ryu takes Nahate and Shurite Karate. That explains the inclusion of Itosu and Higaona katas.
His family Karate sure...but I still maintain that they adopted Goju Ryu later because many signs in the movie and show suggest Goju Ryu. It's honestly probably a mix of the two, which would totally explain the inclusion of all the Katas. Someone already commented that they may have identified one of the pictures on the wall as the instructor of both Chojun Miyagi (Goju Ryu Founder) and Kenwa Mabuni (Shito Ryu Founder). This would totally support the theory I present here, that Shito Ryu could have been the family karate but that Goju Ryu got implemented later.
@@ArtofOneDojo That can be. Shito Ryu´s Founder, Mabuni, was a student of Higaona and Itosu. Higaona is, at the end, the master of Miyagi as Goyu Ryu is Higaona based. Mabuni also learned from Itosu, so it is not far fetched that Chojun Miyagi and Mabuni were "kohai" in the Higaona Dojo and then Mr. Miyagi could learn from Mabuni (his father friend) some of the Itosu Katas. Loved the videos!
Maybe the real miyagi guy was Mr miyagi uncle or something maybe why he has a photo🤷♂️
Goju came FROM Miyagi Do.
Technically speaking, this is true :)
Shinpo sensei fell asleep on his boat of coast awoke off coast of china 8 yrs later came home with chinese wife an child secret of miyagi do karate though goju was formally formed in the 30s chojun miyagi teacher kanryo higaonna called his style shorei ryu though miyagi changed the name but he also added things he learned in china to make goju ryu
Do u know Shihan shlongdock he’s so good
The last photo looks like sakagawa .