@@mrthan5676 Do a traditional karate style. I think uechi ryu is good. (Or goju ryu, shorin ryu) Or kyokushin karate if you are looking to became strong. Uechi ryu is the best for self defense
Myagi Do is clearly Okinawan goju-ryu Cobra Kai, however, is probably based in TSD, but very likely has a mix of tricks and techniques from a bunch of Karate styles, as well as whatever military combatives Silver and Crease would have learned in the military.
@@agnikaineverdies7646 It can look like it because of the kicks. But here's the issue. In most media the style of taekwondo that is portrayed is WTF taekwondo that basically doesn't use hand techniques at all. All the really use they're hands for is to block. ITF taekwondo uses approximately 70% kicks and 30% hands, but this style isn't often shown in media. Not only that but it couldn't taekwondo because their kata has too many rigid movements. Taekwondo employs a movement called a "sine wave" between each technique on in a kata(In Taekwondo kata are called patterns). The sign wave is a means of relaxing the body in order to prepare for the next technique. If the sine wave is absent from pattern then it's going to look like karate. So this is the reason why it couldn't be taekwondo.
Tommy Moodie, wow as a taekwondo practitioner, it’s pretty embarrassing to be corrected, however I got my black belt a few years ago, and I only do sparring and never practice kata.
@@agnikaineverdies7646 don't feel bad. no one knows everything. Also alot of taekwondo people abandon traditional people and only focus on sparring, especially if they are on the national team. Also, did you do ITF or WTF?
Karate kid fun fact: the actor thay plays Mike Barnes in KK3 is a black belt under Sensei Fumio Demura, who plays Miyagis double. So you can technically say Mike Barnes got his black belt from Miyagi.
Also Tang Soo Do is the Korean pronunciation of Karate Do which means "The Way of the Tang Hand" which refers to the Chinese origin of both arts. Miyagi tells the story of his martial arts lineage back to China. When Japan annexed the Ryukyu Kingdom and renamed Okinawa, a lot of Okinawans emigrated to mainland Japan and introduced Karate but in order to be accepted in Japanese culture and having in mind that Japan was invading China at the time they changed the way Karate is written from "Tang hand" (A Chinese dynasty) to "Empty hand" which are both pronounced the same. As the Japanese Empire also expanded to Korea they also annexed it and introduced Karate. This is why many Karate black belts from the Japanese occupation era gathered together to create Tang Soo Do and Taekwondo after WWII.
This is my understanding as well...That what we know of as Korean martial arts today are all variants of japanese martial arts. I suppose the only truly Korean aspect of them being the mountainous nature of the Korean countryside lends itself to much more long range leg strikes - kicks etc. Too bad the Hawarang-do has been lost in the sands of time. The Koreans wanted their own martial arts to thumb their nose at the Japanese, so they created TKD, TSD and Hapkido - all variants of Japanese counterparts. I'd be curious what a truly traditional Korean martial art looked like.
@Empatheia Multiversalis ,I think Cobra Kai is 85% TKD and 15% TSD , my reasoning for this is mostly because we all know that John Kreese was the founder of Cobra Kai and the person John Kreese trained under was in south Korea his name was Kim Sung Yung I think that's what his name was but yeah and TKD is very popular in South Korea and has been for many years I do think that there is TSD in Cobra Kai but more TKD
To attempt to answer your question re: Kobra Kai being Korean - I'm in the movie business and I know for a fact that the Kobra Kai dojo in the original 1984 film was shot at Jun Chong's Tae Kwon Do school on Lankershim Blvd. in North Hollywood. I was in a film project that shot there in 1999 and the Karate Kid movie was its claim to fame. That location closed within the past decade and is now vacant. (The school is still in business though). So I agree that Kobra Kai is of Korean origin, though it's using the term "Kai" to mean "training association" which is Japanese usage. If you look at their choreography as well, it is more of Tang Soo Do rather than Tae Kwon Do because of the stances. Of course, movie martial arts are a hybrid borrowing from different styles to create something that looks awesome on-screen, which is why many martial artists can feel confused as to the "style". I say it's closer to Tang Soo Do because Pat Johnson was choreographing a traditional tournament style, and his base style was a great foundation to build from. But the techniques were definitely adapted to the actors' abilities. Note that William Zabka's spinning kicks are actually spinning crescents and not spinning heel kicks as they look visually similar, but are easier to teach, and also the upright torso helps keep the kicking foot at a safe distance from the other actor. Of course, an expert is able to throw any kick with control, but training actors to perform martial arts on-screen is different as there's a time crunch to get them up to speed, and they're only learning the moves in the choreography.
Excellent information indeed, thank you for sharing that. Since you mentioned Jun Chong, I was able to find those same pictures on Google (at least for the photos by the front door). I still haven't found anything that matched the photo over the mirror. Some others have suggested that the photo over the mirror is Cho Hee Il, but have not verified that yet, but it would match along with what you have said.
@@ArtofOneDojo You're welcome! That photo at 13:06 looks to be Hee Il Cho (who also starred as the Korean coach in Best of the Best). 13:08's photo is out of focus, but looks like a photo I've seen in the book Dynamic Kicks by Chong Lee. My guess is that the photo high up on the wall over the mirror would have been one of the founders of their system. I come from an Okinawa Kenpo lineage (Nakamura Shigeru & Odo Seikichi), so I am not as familiar with the Korean lineage.
Korean martial arts use white uniforms with black trim. Cobra Kai uniforms are either solid black and sleeveless, or solid white in the dojo. So if Cobra Kai is Korean, why don't they wear Korean uniforms?
In the second season of Cobra Kai, when Daniel is setting up Miyagi Do karate Dojo - they have a picture of the actual Master Chojun Miyagi (same photo you use in your videos here) on the wall next to the photo of Pat Morita. I believe it’s to pay homage to Master Miyagi, which in my opinion would confirm Gojo-Ryu
Most old school martial arts celebrate the traditions and the masters of the past. So you will often find a shrine/museum of pictures, painting, weapons, and other artifacts related to the ancestral teachers and the history of the style. I've always been fascinated about those nuggets of history and the legends around them.
Don’t listen to people who say negative things about the video. We know it’s a movie. It’s an escape for us from real life for a few minutes. Thank you for the videos.
It is Tang Soo Do for sure, as Pat Johnson taught them it and also was in my Tang Soo Do Association back in the 80's/90's along with Chuck Norris, who's instructor (JC Shin) was also my instructor's instructor. I have been in Tang Soo Do and many other martial arts for 38 years now.
I agree that Cobra Kai is likely Tang Soo Do. Having studied a style that's also rooted in Moo Duk Kwan, it looks very familiar. As you mention, we hear Korean commands. It may also interest some to know that not only were the Korean arts often referred to as "Korean Karate," in the 70s & 80s, but Tang Soo Do means the "Art of the Tang Hand." This likely refers to the Tang Dynasty of China and being a form of "China Hand" martial arts, a common Japanese translation is Karate Do. In this case, as with early Kenpo/Kempo, it would be the form of the term where the kanji used for "Kara" would be the one meaning "China," instead of "empty."
I’m 54 year old martial artist that’s why I recognize the picture of the founder in cobra kai dojo. It’s Cho Hee Il one the most prominent Tae kwon do instructors of the 70’s and 80’s. He played the Korean’s coach in best of the best movie.
It's not Cho, its actually Jun Chong. If you do a Google search on Chong that exact same photo comes up. Plus if you go to Chong's personally Instagram account he has that photo posted alongside a screen shot of it behind Daniel's head like at 13:04. The Cobra Kai scenes were filmed at his old North Hollywood school.
@@barrettokarate I think you two are talking about two different pictures. I believe Lannel was talking about the very blurry image at 12:57 that the video identifies as the founder rather than the image at 13:04 which is one of the other images of martial artists Art of One was asking to identify.
@@Fardawg Either way its likely not Hee Il Choi and here's why. The Cobra Kai dojo scenes were filmed at one of Jun Chong's schools. The person at 13:04 is Chong himself. As for the person in the photo at 12:57, only Chong, his wife Ada or anyone of his students (like Simon and Phillip Rhee) from that era knows the answer. But usually someone whose photo is placed in such a spot is either your instructor or the founder of your art(s) and Cho is neither. Chong holds ninth degree black belts in both taekwondo and hapkido so whoever is in that blurry photo is likely going to be either Hong Hi Choi or Choi Yong Sool or one of his teachers Kim Il Sang (TKD) or Sea Oh Choi (Hapkido). Is it likely that Chong and Cho crossed paths? Definitely. I mean in the late 1980s Cho appeared in "The Best of the Best" alongside the Rhee brothers. But Chong had long since established himself in Los Angeles County with several schools and by all accounts was never a student of Cho. So there would be no reason for Cho's photograph to be placed in that spot. Maybe on the wall alongside other martial arts contemporaries and friends, but not up there.
Dear friend, Im Wado Ryu Karate Teacher and Also Ninjutsu Fuma Ryu Teacher. I think the Cobra Kai of the original 1984 series also has goju ryu as a basic lineage. I think the Cobra KAi had a personal style, based on Goju ryu, and Tang soo do. I would like to bring to the attention of the Patches present in the kimono cobra kai pants, as well as a reference to Korean karate, there is also the symbol of Goju ryu. My conclusion is that the Cobra kai, is a modern style that has merged different styles and that has created one in its own right.
I have all the patches from the Gi pants. Finally someone gets that Cobra Kai is collection of arts. I also believe that when they confirmed that Tang So Do was the influence for cobra kai in one of the flash backs, they left out the Goju Ryu influence. I mean the patch is on Chozen’s chest and Johnny’s pants in 1984.
I'm still going with goju-ryu and American tang soo do. I mentioned this in the last video too, Robert Mark Kamen the man who wrote "The Karate Kid" has a background in Okinawan goju-ryu and isshin-ryu karate. Although Pat E. Johnson (who originally trained in Korean tang soo do, but later switched to Chuck Norris' Americanized version) was the stunt and fight choreographer Kamen was involved in some of the martial arts training. Although Johnson most likely knew a lot of Okinawan stylists, he didn't have any background in Okinawan karate. Kamen based the name Miyagi on Chojun Miyagi the founder of goju-ryu and the actual character on a goju-ryu instructor that taught near the military base where he was stationed on during the 1960s. However, Pat Morita's inspiration for his portrayal of Mr. Miyagi was based on Fumio Demura. Demura was Morita's main stunt double, but his job was to do what Avildsen, Kamen and Johnson wanted for the martial arts sequences. Johnson originally trained in Korea but around 1967 became a student of Norris and began learning his system (American tang soo do, pre-Chun Kuk Do/Chuck Norris System) which is a combination of tang soo do, shotokan, shito-ryu and judo. By the way the guys doing one-steps 10:28 are American tang soo do guys, not traditional Korean tang soo do. They're from an organization that split from Johnson's group back in the 1990s. A lot of people are/were under the assumption that William Zabka is a black belt in tang soo do, including myself. I was the one who actually put that on his IMDB profile years ago. However, looking back I've never read or heard him ever make this claim. He did an interview years ago -- from the early 2000s I believe -- where he did say that after the movie he trained off and on with Johnson and his top student Roger Lacombe for 5 years and earning a green belt, which is where I got the info that I posted on IMDB. Looking back I made the mistake of assuming that that he did eventually earn his black belt and posted it without doing more checking. Maybe in the last 30 plus years he eventually did, but I don't think he's ever confirmed it. As for the kata that Thomas Ian Griffith (Terry Silver) performs in the third movie. I think it's made up, unless it's a tae kwon do form. Griffith is a black belt in both kenpo karate and tae kwon do, but that definitely doesn't look like any kenpo form I've ever seen. And it's definitely not one taught in the original Norris system. With regards to the photos hanging in the dojo, those from the actual dojang where the the scenes were shot. The guy in the photo by Daniel's head at 13:05 is Jun Chong. The dojo scenes were filmed at his tae kwon do school. Anyway, but the best way to know the truth regarding which styles where the inspiration for Miyagi-do and Cobra Kai is to ask either Kamen or Johnson. They're both still alive and there are ways to get a hold of them, especially Johnson
I agree with everything you've said and you are correct about the photos by the front door. Some others have suggested Cho Hee Il for the one above the mirror but I haven't found a matching picture yet. Terry Silver's form is not from any Kenpo I am familiar with either, so it probably is just made up. Robert Mark Kamen does have that background but he did not choreography the films though I am sure he had a LOT of input, and it would make sense especially with his Goju Ryu background. I am in the beginning attempts to reach out to Mr. Johnson. It would be great to interview him if he was interested in participating.
Regarding Kamen, what you just wrote is actually what I meant to write. Unfortunately reading back what I wrote I worded it wrong and it looks like I'm insinuating that he had part in the choreography. Johnson was the sole choreographer, but like you said (and what I wanted to say) Kamen gave his 2-cents regarding the Okinawan styles. Here's another little tidbit...in the second film we see a "nunti bo" being used. While in Okinawa Kamen trained in Matayoshi kobudo under Shinpo Matayoshi himself. I'm pretty sure Mr. Johnson would be glad to speak with you. I think the best way to get a hold of his contact information might be either through Roger Lacombe or Roger Quinlan in Southern California. Both are high ranking black belts under him. Regarding, the photo in the dojo I think it might be best to ask Chong himself. He and his wife still teach here in Los Angeles county. I also doubt that photo would be of Hee Il Cho. Although I don't know either personally, as far as I know other than both being Korean and tae kwon do experts I don't think there's any affiliation between them, especially in the form of a teacher-student relationship for him Chong to hang a photo of Cho in that spot.
I just wanted to add , especially as someone whom trained in Isshin-ryu , however briefly , that Isshin-ryu is basically a fusion of Goju-ryu and Shorin-ryu . Both of which its founder , Tetsuo Shimabuku , trained in himself . olemiss.edu/orgs/karate/steinburgarticle.html , www.journaled.com/JED/MA/Isshinryu/index.html
Thank you for the in-depth detail, this clarifies alot of curiosity of the style being presented on film and on youtube in the Karate Kid series. As a fellow martial artist (Taekwondo), i still admire the choreography of each of the fight scenes and even the classes shown in the film and series. Regardless to which style it may incline to originate from, I fully enjoy watching a good martial arts story. Keep up the great work
My base art that I started with 50 years ago was Tang Soo Do. It is the heart of everything I have been teaching all my life. With that said, I have studied other arts as well... For the Tang Soo Do, it is a hard and soft style as well. Hard side of it is Shotokan. Soft side of it is Kung Fu influence and the kicks are from Korean Kicking. This is just a simplified answer, which goes to help explain background. The Tang Soo Do I have taught through the years is very aggressive following the spirit of the Tiger...
What a pleasant video to receive in my sub box. Why didn’t Miyagi teach Daniel about ‘kime’? If Daniel used Kime in the movies, he wouldn’t have had as much trouble.
The Karate Kid (1984) is one of the greatest martial arts movies of all time. Despite most of the main characters not being actual martial artists, this movie inspired me and many others to want to learn a martial art. Like you mentioned in a previous comment, back in the 80s most styles were simply referred to as "karate". But after seeing this film, I totally bought into the notion that you could learn karate techniques by doing chores around the house. And if you only had 3 months to prepare for a competition against black belts who have trained for years, this was the best way to quickly measure up to them.
Love this comment! The Karate Kid was also one of my inspirations to train in the Martial Arts, but, as my Sifu told me, 3 months of training would've resulted in my possible death in an actual tournament even if Bruce Lee himself had been my teacher, lol!
I also agree with the idea that Miyagi do karate is Okinawan gōjū ryū. In the second movie, as you correctly pointed out, you can see the fist patch, which is the symbol of Gogen Yamaguchi's Japanese version of gōjū ryū. Moreover, the whole Wax on wax off, paint the fence etc are basically a set of excercise called "rokkishu" which is the root of the tensho kata, developed by Miyagi Chojun.
Your explanation is excellent! My teacher is Professor Wayne Carman. His teacher was Master Kang Rhee. In recent times I’ve been researching a good bit into the lineage of the arts. It turns out that Master Rhee had a couple of teachers that were Japanese. And their lineage traces back to Okinawa. The katas that we were taught were very Japanese as were the techniques. But it’s always been interesting how Master Rhee would call his art Pa Sa Ryu. And on occasion he would refer to it as TKD. But the techniques always looked suspiciously like Okinawan Kempo. At this point I have studied Pa Sa Ryu, Chinese Kempo, Okinawan Kempo, Kali, Silat, Aikido and a few other things. At this point, it’s just a mix of fun things to do and train in. And I love it all!
Perhaps the style of martial art practiced by Cobra Kai is a sort of bastardization of Tang Soo Do. Consider the 1st movie. We find a photograph of John Kreese in military garb similar to that utilized during the early years of the Vietnam war. This would suggest that Kreese was possibly MACV/SOG. When you stop to think what the CIA has already declassified on SOG, it would follow that Kreese was in the CIA's Special Operations Group and was given training in Korea in Tang Soo Do. And while in Vietnam, Kreese mixed things up in his own training to adapt the the jungle and the fighting style used in Vietnam.
The writer of the movie was a goju ryu practitioner and the karate kid was a tribute to his style. Which is mentioned in the documentary the real Mr. Miyagi on Netflix.
I agree with you that Miyagi-Do is definitely based upon one of the real-world Okinawan schools. I'd say for Cobra Kai it's either Tang Soo Do or maybe Hapkido as we do see quite a bit of throws, takedowns, and even holds in the show. Also, Hapkido is still pretty kick-heavy and has a lot of the same kicks as both TKD and TSD. So yeah, either TSD or Hapkido.
@@ArtofOneDojo I've seen vaguely similar kata with spinning moves in Kuk Sool Won and Hwa Rang Do, especially tornado crescent kicks. Can't pinpoint a specific one, though.
From the comments yes it’s not based on any real Kata’s. It’s been made up and put together. In general, it’s not wrong to make up and have your own katas many systems / styles have done that breaking away from traditional systems. Just as long as you can apply them or have some way of using those techniques. Terry silver uses high kicks in the kata, only Korean styles use high kicks 😉
I agree with your assessment of Kobe Kai being Tang Soo do. I’ve practiced both Shotokan and ITF TKD. Yes there are TKD similarities, but it looks closer to Shotokan than TKD.
Yeah...especially since Miquel was a white belt in the school all the way up to the tournament. I take it that Johnny just does what Miyagi did in the first movie, just put on the black belt in order to meet the requirements. But I agree with you...suddenly everyone has black belts.
Hey Coach, I wanted to say that I really like your style of instruction. There are a lot of bros in the martial arts world and it can be tiresome, but I think I find your level headed pedagogy refreshing. Instead of insisting 'this is real... and that is B.S.' you talk us through the pros and cons of different approaches like a college professor. I think that is a better way to come at the martial arts than with all the negative attitude that this subject often conjures online. Walking away from sport fighting, I find that you are the type of traditional coach I'd like to follow and learn from. Thanks.
Thank you so much for the kind words. There is definitely too much of the negative attitude and the martial arts are supposed to be about self betterment and defense, not putting others down. Thank you for your support :)
Another fun fact. The All Valley Tournament was actually a real tournament that was held for the movie. Pat Johnson said in a interview that it was easier for them to hold a real tournament then to set up a fake one. He told the competitors to ignore the cameras
YES! I was just finding out about this. William Zabka and Ralph Macchio just did an interview and they talked about that. I was thinking of doing a 3rd Cobra Kai video and talking about that.
So I was looking forward to this video, and after watching if, I feel that.... I WAS NOT DISAPPOINTED, you rocked it, sir! I love the evidence you provide, and that while you are confident in your answers, you open the door for people to provide their evidence. However, you kind of smack that down when you show the side by side comparison supporting your arguments.
I heavily agree with Tang Soo Do/Taekwondo for Cobra Kai due to my personal background in Taekwondo. I've actually learned and used in sparring some of the same techniques as Johnny, including the jumping inner cresent kick he uses first against the teenager in the TV show. Great analysis and fantastic RUclips channel!!
The location for the Kobra Kai dojo was a TKD dojang from Hollywood I believe, so I suppose that picture frame could be from Choi Hong Hi the founder of TKD
Korean arts are extremely underrated. I used to underrate taekwondo as well when i wasn't practising martial arts. When i actually started it, i realized it was something completely different from what i thought in the past. its a very versatile martial art that takes techniques from other styles and adds it to its already powerful arsenal. Korean arts also aren't portrayed in media very often. When it is, it is portrayed improperly/ unfairly. They always portray WTF taekwondo which is the sports version of the martial art. As a result, it is made a laughing stock in movies because it can't show proper usage of survival.
@@tommymoodie2157 I have been having this doubt also. Many videos show TKD being beat by muay thai practitioners. I still was curious about TKD and wanted to know more. Could you suggest some legendary fighters, current fighters of TKD?
@@unknowninfinium4353 Scott Adkins is known for taekwondo. He plays boyka in the undisputed series. Bren Foster is also a popular taekwondo practitioner. He was also on an episode of fight science. Michael Jai White also does taekwondo but he is mostly known for karate. As for practitioners who aren't actors and just fighters. There is Nicholas Dusard and Kenneth Edwards, whom are Jamaica's most popular tkd practioners. Also Jamaica is number 1 in the world for tkd. Also yes they do show muay Thai beating taekwondo a lot. Really and truly if its a match Muay Thai actually should win. Because they have many more options for attacks. Muay Thai utilizes fists, feet, knees and elbows, while taekwondo only uses hands and feet. Also in taekwondo matches hitting below the belt isn't allowed, neither or throws or grapples(even though its not like you could grapple with those types of safeties on, I.e, the gloves). So muay Thai has a lot more options to go against tkd. I also think muay Thai fighters might be conditioned better than us in order to take punishment. Tkd practitioners can hit harder. Like a lot harder. This is for a match though. We are taught almost every tool in martial arts, whether it low kicking, sweeping, throwing, elbow strike,knee strikes. All of it is there. We just aren't allowed to use them in tournaments. If its a street fight anything is possible. Either side could win because every fighter is different.
Korean martial arts appeared in the 1950s and were "inspired" by the Japanese arts, since the Japanese have built many schools in Korea with arts such as Karate, Judo, and Kendo being part of the school curriculum for boys. Korean arts are very very young, have no historical roots, and feel as legit as Ashida Kim's ninjutsu. High kicks were never a staple of real martial arts because of the high risk factor, if you see traditional Chinese shaolin forms, or Okinawan karate, kicks are rarely done above the waist. Korean arts on the other hands were introduced for the movies, thy took karate and added acrobatics into it for differentiation, they are flashy, acrobatic, beautiful, but have nothing to do with traditional martial arts at all, it is closer to break-dancing or k-pop.
Hello Sensei Dan how have you been? Excellent analogy of the martial arts in the Karate Kid films, along with the Cobra Kai TV series, in this second segment. First off the so called 'crane kick ' in the Karate Kid, differs from that of the Japanese-Brazilian, former UFC Light Heavyweight champion, Lyoto 'The Dragon ' Carvalho Machida (町田 カルバヨウ龍太) ! Lyoto Machida himself is a Shotokan Karate Sensei, third dan black belt, as well as a Brazilian Jiu-jitsu black belt. The jumping kick that you showed him, performing during one of his UFC fights, is what we call in styles of Japanese Karate, be it Goju-Ryu, Shotokan, Shito-Ryu, Kyokushin and so forth a (tobi mae geri)! Exactly as you have described it, literally a jumping front kick in terms of its literal translation. Lyoto Machida obviously coming predominantly from a Shotokan Karate background (Machida Karate), as he and his family often refer to their branch of the art, is where he would have learned such a type of kick in the style's syllabus. We ourselves in Kyokushin Karate practice it exactly the same way, totally nothing to do with the Karate Kid film's version. I definitely believe that the Cobra Kai are more Korean martial arts influenced, in terms of their martial arts style practice. Thomas Ian Griffith, who portrayed Terry Silver in the third Karate Kid film, is a black belt in both Kenpo Karate and Taekwondo (though what degree black belt, in both arts he is precisely ranked at, is unknown). From the segment that you have shown of him practising his kata in the Cobra Kai dojo of Sensei John Kreese in the Karate Kid three film, my analogy is that he was performing a Taekwondo form, given that it looks very reminiscent, to what I have seen in Taekwondo schools, forms wise. Though him also being a Karate practitioner, film wise he might combined elements of both, to give it a distinct, unique, creative and flamboyant look, for the film. I doubt that he might have been lying about his master being from Korea, when he pretended to go to Mr. Miyagi's place to apologise on behalf of his Korean master, for John Kreese's dishonourable actions. I cannot remember the name he mentioned in that scene, of the fake apology, nevertheless he did mention the name of their Korean grandmaster, which was definitely a Korean name and not a Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese, etc name. Based on that I definitely say their martial art style is Tang Soo Do (often referred to as Korean Karate )! It is not Taekwondo for certain, because usually Taekwondo has wider stances, also they bounce allot up and down, plus Taekwondo athletes, at least the Olympic and sport oriented version of it, tend to have their hands down low, given that they do not need to worry about punches to the face. What allot of people do not realise Sensei Dan, is that during Japan's occupation of the Korean peninsula as a whole, when it was still a unified, geographical and national entity, there was a vast array of cross pollination in terms of martial arts systems. That is to say the Koreans took elements of Japanese martial arts such as Karate, judo, jiu-jitsu, aikido, kendo and incorporated into their own native martial arts systems of Hwa Rang Do, Taekkyon and so forth. Vice versa of course the Japanese took elements from Korean martial arts, incorporating them into their styles of self defence. Of course politics and cultural pride, tend to lend themselves to be biased, of which often neither side is willing to admit their influences on one another. Looking at the style of fighting of the Cobra Kai, I definitely recognise it as Tang Soo Do, of which world wide its most famous practitioner is the legendary Chuck Norris. He has heavily show cased it in films such as Sidekicks with the late Jonathan Brandis (RIP) as his co-star, also many times has featured his Tang Soo Do art in his own TV series, Walker Texas Ranger. In Walker Texas Ranger often you see Chuck Norris have episodes heavily based on this art, at a competition within the storyline, or some sort of training segment at his own school, again as part of that particular episode's storyline. The Cobra Kai are definitely not Goju-Ryu, Shotokan or Kyokushin Karate based, in terms of their style. Our stances in Kyokushin Karate, for example are not as wide, nor almost in a similar Taekwondo type of stance, at a ninety degree, semi horse riding stance, as seen in the Cobra Kai TV series, or the Karate Kid. We in Kyokushin Karate adopt an upright, evenly balanced stance, similar to that of kickboxers or Kenpo Karate stylists, from what I have seen. Also like boxers and kickboxers, Muay Thai stylists, our fists are held high near our faces, with our elbows close to our ribs. The Cobra Kai are more in line with that of Tang Soo Do, in terms of their fighting stance, hands and guard positioning. The person that was trolling you with the bogus theory about Mr. Miyagi's art being Jeet Kune Do, is ludicrous and laughable 😁. First of all I did not see any Bruce Lee/Mohammed Ali foot shuffle, nor the Wing Chun type of punching, blocking and hand trapping, that Bruce Lee was famous for. Instead Mr. Miyagi was pretty much stationary and hardly mobile, in terms of his fighting stance, posture and footwork. Excellent video as always, highly informative, educational and entertaining. I wonder if there might be a part three? I am certain this is going to open the debate even further of which it might not be a bad idea, to see if Sensei Fumio Demura, who doubled for the late Noriyuki 'Pat ' Morita as Mr. Miyagi, or Sensei Pat Johnson, who choreographed the fights in the first three Karate Kid films, might want to give accurate information, regarding those films' arts. Oh it just dawned upon me Sensei Dan it would also be interesting to cover the so called Karate Kid remake film, with Jackie Chan and Jayden Smith. That fim should have been called The Kung Fu Kid instead. Wishing you all the best as always. I am still gathering the Kyokushin Karate material for you, sorry for taking so long, my apologies. Best regards as always, from Melbourne, Australia 🇦🇺, Osu! 👍 ☺ ✌
I really don't understand why people say Kyokushin, I don't see it at all. You provide a lot of great information and I agree with all of it and at this point I'm pretty confident with the "Goju Ryu" and "Tang Soo Do" claim. I might do a third video, a few people have asked for another one. There are still some possible topics to cover here (The tournaments, Mike Barnes, The Kung Fu in the remake). As always I appreciate your support and I hope to do more movie/TV show breakdowns.
As a practitioner of Kung Fu I was a little curious as to why they would name a movie, based in China, with a Chinese Sifu, the "Karate Kid" til I realized that the Karate Kid would probably sell more movie tickets, lol
That is exactly what happened. Sony wanted to draw box office dollars from the marketability of the "Karate Kid" name. The way they addressed it in the film was horrible too. Dre was telling his Mom about it and she goes "How do you like Karate?" and he said "It's not Karate Mom, it's Kung Fu" and she says "Karate, Kung Fu...whatever". So yeah, that's how studio executives chose to address using the wrong art with the wrong name.
Art of One Dojo I personally feel scene for scene it was almost plagiarised, as in almost copying scenes from the first Karate Kid film. Now you are totally correct Sensei Dan, what a lazy way for the producers of the so called Karate Kid remake film with Jackie Chan and Jayden Smith, to try and justify using the word karate, in the film's title. Where his mother calls it Karate, while her son Dre, tells it is Kung Fu, is a cheap tactic, as you said by them calling the film The Karate Kid! To which as you said, she exclaimed: Karate, Kung Fu, whatever. It comes to no surprise, that in the years after World War 2, in at least the English speaking countries, as I know it, everyone just about used the term Karate. To refer to any martial arts systems, be it Kung Fu, judo, jiu-jitsu, aikido, taekwondo, Hapkido etc. They even ripped off the concept of the crane kick, as the winning technique at the end. Yet what makes me laugh is that they called it the art of the Cobra 🐍, just from his snake hand movement. Nevertheless he was standing in a crane, one leg raised off the ground type of stance. I have seen the snake 🐍 Kung Fu forms and none of them, although having formidably outstanding kicks, especially in the Northern Kung Fu styles, where they are generally more acrobatic, then the styles generally practiced in the Southern part of China. Snake Kung Fu forms do not start or finish in a one leg raised off the ground, pose or stance. The only ones I have seen some what similar in such stance or pose, are crane style Kung Fu, phoenix fist, eagle claw Kung Fu styles for example. I still believe that the remake film, should have been called The Kung Fu Kid, also they should have been more original in my opinion, in terms of their storyline narrative and so forth!
Jennifer Pyrce exactly they were trying to ride on the nostalgia of the original, properly titled the Karate Kid first film's popularity. Those who were already young adults and those of us growing up with The Karate Kid films, were hoped by the film executives, to go and watch it. Plus of course the new kids and young teenagers, of this current generation, as its main targeted audience.
I think miyagi do is most likely goju ryu. I study off of Fumio Demura so I can confirm it's not shito ryu. In the first karate kid movie, the most famous thing is wax on, wax off, paint the fence, paint the house, sand the floor, etc. We use some goju ryu katas in our organization, one is called tensho, and it looks EXACTLY like paint the fence and paint the house.
I would have to agree with your assessment of Cobra Kia’s style being a variant of Tang Soo Do. I am a third degree black belt in Tang Soo Do and I will say that Cobra Kai’s variant is more aggressive then normal but I believe that to be for the movies/series. As for Silver’s Kata I don’t recognize it but with Tang Soo Do borrowing a lot from both Chinese and Japanese styles it can be difficult to nail down. I will say a lot of Silvers movement use Tang Soo Do principles as does Johnny’s fighting style.
another fun fact to support rhe tang soo do thing is Jhoon Rhee, a grandmaster of taekwando was teaching what he called "korean karate" in texas. After receiving the ROK Army Field Manual (which contained martial arts training curriculum under the new name of Taekwondo) from General Choi, Rhee began using the name "Taekwondo".
Once again I agree with your assessment that Cobra Kai is practicing a variant of Tang Soo Do. I have practiced both Tant Soo Do, and American Kenop and this didn't seem Kepmoish at all to me. While I studied Shotokan for a very short time and Lotus style as well, but the combination of kicks, hand techniques and mannerisms all point to TSD to me. Good catch about the Choonbe, my TSD instructor Master Steve Rakel used that term throughout our classes.
About everything being called "Karate" back in the 80s: I practice Hwa Rang Do, but our dojang originally said "Karate" on the sign out front. The reason is that when they first opened, everyone knew what "Karate" was, but no one knew what Hwa Rang Do (or Tai Kwan Do, which we also teach) was - saying "Karate" was the only way to let people know that it was a martial arts school and not something like a Tai Chi studio or an Asian restaurant. And I have to admit, when I decided to start training in martial arts, I wouldn't have known what that was either and probably wouldn't have stopped in. They've since changed the sign to read "Martial Arts" with "Hwa Rang Do • Tai Kwan Do" below it.
The jumping front kick, CAN be 'advancing' or 'stationary'... it's up to the person executing it. It 'can' even be executed in retreating fashion, but that is more than a little awkward for most people, including me, and would only have use, as a 'reflexive' adaptation of the kick, to adjust for an opponent that gets too close for the kick to work any other way. I'd call the 'crane kick' a cinematic/stylized version of the jumping front kick. I definitely agree that the same basic kick exists in too many arts to name, and that there's no such thing, as a technique that cannot be defended against, and countered. On the whole, I tend to agree with you, on your breakdown, of which arts were 'borrowed from' to create the different styles between the Miyagi Do and Cobra Kai schools. Goju Ryu and Tang Soo Do certainly seem to fit the bill. Both of your videos on this subject are, I think, spot on, in large part!
I am a Tang Soo Do practitioner for 20 plus years. Yes you are correct Shotokan and Tang Soo Do are very similar. I’ve even heard TSD referred to as Korean Shotokan. I believe it’s both in the movie. If you have ever been to a dojo/Dojang they are very traditional flags, kanji, etc. if they are using a mix of Korean and Japanese commands it’s a mix of styles that this guy put together to make a Frankenstein type martial arts.
My Sensei (Peter Urban) was a consultant for the movie. GoJu generally has low kicks. All Okinowan Karate is the same. It's called To Dai. Ishin Ryu, GoJu Ryu etc are brand names. Pete called all Karate "same religion, different language"... Pete loved Aiki. He called Aikido graduate school.
For me, the most anticipated video Mr. Dan. Well done. I have watched the Cobra Kai RUclips release and thoroughly recommend it. Lots of pop culture references and Johnny’s dialogue is hilarious (stuck in the 80’s). Family and I binged watched the series over a weekend. With regards to the martial arts, that were the basis of this Hollywood blockbuster. I totally agree on both fronts; with one exception. This being a pet hate of mine. I’m more comfortable with Tang Soo Do and not modern day Tae Kwon Do. Particularly with regards to what is being portrayed as their “fighting style”. Let me elaborate. We see TKD mainly from the tournament arena (televised or RUclips). With its point system mechanics in place. Many TKD realist know that tournament style fighting is very, very different from a real life scenario. Some TKD practitioners that enter the Octagon, I would say display a more realistic medium to high guard for obvious practicality. When you are sparring with a sensor pad/point system versus someone trying to knock you out as efficiently as possible, your application and training changes dramatically. Saying a style is Tae Kwon Do, is much like saying it’s Karate. We ALL know there is a deeper motivation driving the style. Such as philosophy of the school/lineage, application weighed against practicality. Thanks again Mr. Dan, for creating an amicable platform for debate. A Scholar and a Gentleman!
That’s kukkiwon (WT) taekwondo. Chang-hon (ITF) taekwon-do uses more realistic rules in their sparring (more like kickboxing) and actually do train grapples and throws (not to the extent of judo unfortunately, but at least they train it!). That style displays a lot more of the Shotokan that inspired it and the other major Korean arts (but don’t tell the Koreans, they’re still mad about that whole occupation thing). Of course, I do think the art displayed on Cobra Kai is tangsoodo, but with a lot of live combat maneuvers thrown in.
I'm so glad I found your channel and subscribed. I hope you are able to do an episode of Krav Maga, Muy Tai and Capoeira. Perhaps shade light on Frank Dux and the movie Bloodsport. I'm sorry for getting carried away with the requests you just do such a wonderful and respectful job of explaining all the arts. Thank you so much!
I understand why some folks suggest shotokan for cobra Kai but for sure no one would issue a ready command in Korean in a shotokan class. Johnny’s first fight in the series shows his capacity to throw and strike which are still integral even to modernized shotokan nonetheless those techniques are shared by many arts. Tang So Do and Taekwondo as you mentioned share a history with shotokan and feature versions of the several katas including the Taeyuku, Heian (Pinan), Kankudai and Jion. I had the same questions about what was what but I think you figured it out. It makes sense to me.
Shotokan practitioner here. I'm not seeing Johnny fight in the Shotokan style in the tournament scenes. 50% of the techniques thrown would be reverse punches. I've never seen a crescent kick thrown at a Shotokan tournament. It's in our kata, but isn't practiced as a scoring technique for kumite. Roundhouse kicks look Korean style, they come up at a 45 degree angle to meet their target. In Shotokan the roundhouse comes across horizontally to meet the target. I don't see TKD, since Johnny only throws one kick per leg and doesn't do any multiple kicks from a single chambered wind up. Also when asked if its TKD, Johnny says its Karate. So, TSD for the win.
I am a student of Fumio Demura. I can confirm miyagi do is not shito ryu. Ive recognized None of the katas, but in Cobra Kai, there was a scene where Daniel's students were performing a kata similar to kushanku dai. It was only faintly similar though...
It could be that he's just practicing ad-lib. When I was being taught how to do kata demo for I form katas for a measley yellow belt I was taught to picture real opponents & to throw punches at them as though they were actually there. He could be doing that with no defined pattern. Just playing out the moves as they come to him. Not as effective as real opponents but I could totally see him practicing erratic patterns instead of formal ones.
When I was a kid I studied Tang su do. I remember jumbee was executed by bringing the fist up together facing yourself about chin level while raising on the left leg and bringing the right foot to the left knee before bringing down fist and the right leg into (ready) stance and saying Kia! Soon after that school closed I began to study Kenpo. The fancy junbee became ready stance. Now I practice on my own and use the korean way to present ready stance and honor Mr Parker by using gravitational marrage when lowering the fist and foot. 😁 Kinda silly I know but meaningful for me. Also excuse my spelling. Thank you.
I’ve heard it was tang soo do. Seems to be a consensus. I know zabka actually practices tang soo do irl and funny enough the dojo I want to attend near me is UFAF, which is based tang soo do. So perhaps cobra Kai karate specifically is closer to chun kuk do, the Norris style. I say that because pat Johnson was a master in that system and he taught the original KK cast
I can add this: - In Taekwon-Do we call our instructors "Sabon", "Sabonim", etc depending on their belt rank we do not call the "Sensei" (I think in Sipalki-Do they use the same names) so if in Tang Soo Do they call their teachers "Sensei" it's definetly Tang Soo Do - Kreese fought in Vietnam right? The Vietnam war was the event were Taekwon-Do was put to test to see if it worked (the art was originally desing to be used in the battlefield by the korean army) there was a company name the Tiger Company who was very efficient in combat and they all did TKD, so that could be a conection to Kreese I think it could be any of them (or a hollywood version of both or none of them) most of the agresivnes must come from Kreese own personality and his wat expirience anyway so we could say that is just some random martial art thought by koreans xD
The kata looks made up for sure as I have done similar by adding a lot of kicks to standard katas, which most do not have high spinning kicks or that many in them because they are easier to do and keep balance while not doing a kata. Most katas stick to basic kicks not a bunch of spinning wheel and hook kicks. He looks like he made it up as went along as I do as well.
William also says in this interview Pat Johnson taught him Tang soo do, and Daniel was taught a soft Okinawan style. ruclips.net/video/nWASxKUS3yM/видео.html
Per the Karate Kid Fan page it state's about John Kreese. "The unit was trained extensively in guerilla tactics, demolition and hand-to-hand combat by Captain Turner. Turner had previously served in the Korean War and was trained in the art of Tang Soo Do under the tutelage of master Kim Sun-Yung of South Korea. Kreese was taught everything that Turner knew, for the purposes of close quarter combat."
great job with number two. man i love nureding out to martial art talks. great content nice work paying respects to the master Fumio Demura. I hate debates of which art is better then another. but man do i love breaking down theory's, lineage,history and origins.. great content man..
personally i love this stuff. im 35 80s kid grew up doing hapkido, then kempo and now BJJ I loved the karate kid trilogy i love this stuff, i would tune in if you made a third one. I also like how you try very hard to respect the arts and history . on aside note ill like to see a hapkido video, or a blood sport break down. lol sorry i love 80s 90s martial art flicks.. great work tho.. keep them coming.
Cobra Kai is definitely not Kyokushin. While I'm still in my early kyu stage of Kyokushin a lot of the kicks are wider and theirs more jumping involved. Kyokushin keeps things grounded and the kicks are executed closer. Also Cobra Kai fighters tend to target the head with punches. In Kyokushin you're conditioned to target the body with your hand strikes. Johnny's guard out more in his fighting stance. In Kyokushin your guard is closer to your body and chin in the fighting stance. Those are just some examples of how Cobra Kai is clearly not Kyokushin.
@空手家 The reason the kicks I'm talking about are known as Thai kicks rather than Karate kicks is the weapon. No Karate before Kyokushin used the shin as a weapon for any kick, they used the knees and the feet but not the shin and Mas Oyama - the creator of Kyokushin happily admitted he took that idea from Muay Thai.
@空手家 Nobody said Karate low kicks never existed, there are kicks used in Kyokushin made unique among Karate styles by the WEAPON and due to this acknowledged as Thai kicks rather than Karate kicks. Before Kyokushin the WEAPON used for a Karate low kick was never the shin, it was the foot - the top of the foot, the blade of the foot, the ball of the foot, the flat of the foot, the instep of the foot, the heel of the foot. Muay Thai practitioners make a big fuss about their knees and elbows being special but Oyama was more impressed by the Thai conditioning and use of the shin and talks about it in several recorded interviews and one of his books - "This Is Karate".
I've heard that the actor that played Johnny went on to train extensively in Tang Soo Do as a result of his training for the film. I think that may be another point that could also speak to it being Tang Soo Do, provided what I've heard is true.
He did afterwards yes, that was one of the quick taking points of the video. Probably because like you said, he started training in the film so probably kept up with it.
Kyokushin use a lot of kicks but with shins , low kicks oriented , knees .. but its contain many spinning kicks but the pace and movement are completely different of the taekwondo and korean arts.
True, excellent point, however there may be some flexibility in that the All Valley Karate Tournament is an open tournament and allows a mix of students from different styles. If it was a Kyokushin ONLY tournament, you are 100% correct. In the All Valley though, a Kyokushin student could still compete they would just have to follow the point system rules of the tournament. That's just a technicality though, I don't believe Cobra Kai was Kyokushin at all.
I'll take this a step further. I believe cobra kai is tkd and tang soo do. For the time frame and " old school karate" my 1st instructor was my father he trained in the 70s and early 80s. Back then at leastvim the Midwest everything was a blend. My dad taught did tkd but always called it karate. But the tae kwon do he taught was nothing like modern day. In 1983 another gentleman took over my dad's school and he was tang soo do. After my dad past I went on a quest to find my dad's original style the forms that my dad taught were in fact tang soo do. But called it tkd so I think it it's both. Awesome discussion
I’ve trained in Shito Ryu for 15 years and am a 2nd Dan in that style. However, when at uni I did train with a Shotokan club for 4 years. Since then, I have been training with 3 clubs: a Kyokushin club close to where I live, which is the club I trained with the most before lockdown, having even competed in a Kyokushin competition; my own club and, mostly online and some outdoor training since lockdown, another uni club that oddly mixes Shotokan and Goju Ryu. Having substantial experience in all of these styles of Karate, I can safely say that I agree with your conclusions
Cobra Kai practiced the American version of Tang Soo Do that was founded by Chuck Norris in 1967. American version is more of a hybrid system with the Japanese kata forms and the Korean hyung forms.
Another great video Mr Dan. I hope there will be a 3rd part to this. Also do you plan on breaking down the Martial Arts that appear in other films. A few movies that I can think of that you might take a look at is "Sidekicks" ( a 1992 film) which stared Jonathan Brandis, Chuck Norris and Mako. Sidekicks is as far as I can tell Karate Kid but with Kung Fu. Another film I though would be great for you to look into and talk about is "The Perfect Weapon" which is a 1991 film staring Jeff Speakman which has been called the greatest on screen portrayal of Kenpo.
Thank you. Some people are asking for a 3rd and there are a few ways I could go with it (The Next Karate Kid, or the 2010 Kung Fu Remake, or do an analysis of all the people in the tournaments, or Mike Barnes...) I am considering some other movies...POSSIBLY John Wick? The Perfect Weapon IS the greatest film version of Kenpo, but we know its Kenpo so it can't be a "What art is this" video lol, I'd have to break it down in a different way. Though I can watch that film and pick out a TON of techniques from our curriculum, and I met Jeff Speakman a few times and I've seen him do those rapid fire moves in person and I'll tell you right now, it sounds exactly the same as it sounds in the movie LOL. I've even been hit by him and MAN you have no idea the power he can generate.
@@ArtofOneDojo I figured with The Pefect Weapon you could talk about not about wether it is Kenpo but about the differences between how the film portrays Kenpo and how it is in reality. Because in the film they said it was a Korean Martial Art and there was some metaphors about Tigers and Dragons representing mastery in the art. So I was thinking you might talk about the philosophical/spiritual side of the Art as they were portraying it. Also talking about the film just so others who might not have heard of it is a good thing, its a film that deserves talking about. And John Wick is definitely a movie that you would have lots to pick apart and get good video content out of. Anyways can't wait to see more of your awesome videos Mr Dan.
That's a very good point, because while the movie uses a LOT of American Kenpo techniques...it does not always apply them realistically. It's still choreographed to be an exciting martial arts film. I'll have to watch it again, I don't remember any mention of it being Korean, it's more Chinese in root I believe. The Tiger and the Dragon are a big part of it, so it could definitely be a good movie to analyze, thank you for the suggestion. I'll take a closer look at it :)
I was a TKD student when the original Karate Kid movie came out, and even today the flamboyant kicks look TKD. I don’t know Tang So Doo. Even the outside crescent kick Johnny does on the high school punks in Cobra Kai is TKD. However, in Cobra Kai, the kid asks Johnny if that was TKD and Johnny corrects him saying Karate! Now, the Korean arts were adapted from Chinese and Okinawan so, they’re all entertwined. Been in many ‘street’ fights, more than matches actually, I may have started off trying to use conventional martial arts but, didn’t take long to scratch that and end up wrestling/boxing. Problem I saw was a strict martial art only worked when your opponent was using the same style as you, matched by skill level and weight class, in a controlled environment. No anger or people running full blast at you. I do BJJ now
Well Taekwondo and Tang Soo Do originate from similar origins, but we refuse to merge into the larger absorption of Kwons that would make TaeKWONdo. We share almost the exact same kicks, commands, and other hyungs. The only difference is that we have a few other foreign(Non-Korean) influences that you can clearly see in the karate kid during training. Also the facts are on the wall, the choreographer was a black belt in Tang Soo Do, Johnny later went to go and study the art after the films because of this, and their training reminds me of a faint image of my own Dojang.
The kata looks like a mix of taekwondo movements or mixture of different poomse as we call but we have nothing exactly like the kata showed here . There are blocks like ulgul maki ( upper block) fakamaki , yopchagi, duliochagi ( swing kick) etc
I'm of the opinion, that Miyagi-Do karate is an off branch of Goju-ryu, with some stylistic differences. The crane kick is probably a a version of the jumping front kick, standing on the stump may well just be a method of perfecting a subtle balance, with the application being a lot more dynamic. After all, Daniel copied what he saw, it's possible he probably didn't fully understand it's full application. Miyagi's karate was pure and emphasized preservation of history. Kreese on the other hand, strikes me as less concerned with tradition and more concerned with destroying his opponent. Cobra Kai style, is probably a mishmash of techniques from various styles, whatever Kreese felt was the best way to deal damage. I got the impression that Cobra Kai was Kreese's own style, one he'd created based on what he'd learn't over the years. Also, you'd have to look at the time period Kreese would've studied, if it's Tang Soo Do, was it an early, more raw form, a more loosely structured style that still had more noticeable Shoto kan elements.
Most of the "Kata" looks to be strung together from some TKD forms and some TSD forms, I think I recognize a bad version of a Muay Thai kick that has found it's way in to American Mutt Karate through Mauy Thai based American Kick Boxing (American Kickboxing depending on the version can trace it's way back to a number of Arts but most go back to Karate), but from what I know the kick was just coming in to vogue in '88-89 and wasn't that wide spreed espechily with the Korean based Mutt Karate so it shouldn't have made it's way in to a Kata, a couple of the hand strikes are so badly preformed it's hard to tell, but one of them looks like it could be an abortion of a demonstration strike lifted from a Taijitsu form, but it's bean delivered from the wrong stance and so poorly it's hard to tell. It could be he's not doing a Kata and just working on his transitions, some fighters just start doing techniques and try and see what technique flows from one to the next, others try to string a number of their preferred techniques together and try to workout transitions so they are not leaving themselves open in competition or actual fights, if you don't know that that's what they are doing it could be mistaken as a Kata.
I saw a lot of Capoeira-style kicks in both seasons of CK. Seems like Miyagi Do and Cobra Kai have roots in the styles you mentioned, but also mix in techniques from various other styles, really they are just kind of MMA with a strong emphasis on Karate and Tang Soo Do.
I think your assessment is spot on! My background is Kyokushin and Cobra Kai is definitely not Kyokushin. I also enjoy martial arts pop culture and think this is a fun endeavor.
The one picture in the Cobra Kai dojo where you see the blurry image of the man with the mustache, that looks like a picture of Hee Il Cho, 9th Dan in Taekwondo.
I believe the individual in the photos in the original Cobra Kai dojo is Grandmaster Jae Chul Shin. Pat Johnson's teacher was Chuck Norris, Norris' teacher in South Korea was Grandmaster Jae Chul Shin.
Quickly my $0.02 on this, as the video creator has mentioned, they're both movie styles adapted to communicate something in the films, but the choreographer had to base it on something, if it's Pat Johnson then we can expect Johnson to fall back on his own history.
Also if I understand correctly, the screenwriter studied Goju Ryu. But recently this was analysis was confirmed by William Zabka himself! ruclips.net/video/nWASxKUS3yM/видео.html
It is Hee Il Cho in the photo. I think he went by the anglicized name of Henry Cho, but that asian guy is definitely Korean who taught old school pre-Olympic style of Tae Kwon Do
Others have suggested that as well but I can't find a photo of him that matches the one above the frame. Can you link me a photo that matches that? I would love to have confirmation that that's him.
Great to see you healthy and still kicking sensei. As for the style William Zabka says its Tang Soo Do. I been watching the interviews and he mentioned it in one also saying that Pat the OG choreographer was teaching Tang Soo Do. I would like to bring your attention to season 2 sensei. Mainly because when you mentioned this is a Hollywood version there is some truth to it. Without any spoilers for season 2 (which I am sure you must have watched) many elements show that Cobra Kai has evolved to some sort of MMA striking Tang Soo Do. Tori uses clinch and throws round house. Thats just stating one of many elements regarding MMA style. Even if you cant get the persons names in the picture in the Cobra Kai Dojo their GI, itself is very similar to Tang So Do.
I commented on your first video on something that I noticed. I will mention it again since people are asking about the aggression of Cobra Kai. In the movies John Kreese and Terry Silver were both in the army special forces. They were most likely taught "gutter fighting " techniques. The founder William Fairbairn called his style gutter fighting because it is a dirty way to fight. It puts an emphasis on aggression. Strike first, strike hard, end the fight quickly and win at all cost. William Fairbairn taught the allies his method in WWII. It would have been taught to John Kreese and Terry Silver. It is still taught by the military because of it's short learning curve and its brutal effenceny and simplicity. Cobra Kai students are not taught gutter fighting techniques but are taught the aggression and the kill or be killed mentally that goes with it. Today it is known as Defendu.
Wow i'm a Jeet Kune Do practitioner from the IJKD lineage, and Miyagi did not by a long shot do JKD, however he did fight with anticipation and direct Karate strikes. AS for the some of the style used in the tournament for Cobra Kai, Capoeira, Taekwon Do, Karate and maybe some Muay Thai.
One pic looks like grandmaster Cho of Tae Kwon Do. It looks familiar from my tae Kwon do training. I trained with one of his personal students many years ago.
Just watched this and you raised some great points. I decided to take a look for those pictures you asked about and couldn't find them. But I did bumble on to a bit of food for thought for you. Tang soo do's founder mastered two older Korean arts before cultivating the original kwangs. (I hope I'm saying that right.) The styles were Subak and.... "Tankkyon". Please double check that spelling as I definitely think I spelled it wrong. Anyways, subak is all but dead now. Not much to go on practitioner wise. The other one though is still very much thriving. You might look into these art forms to see if you can match up any pics to your unidentified photos from the movies. I will say this. Cobra kia style is not shotokan. Shotokan plants their stances and focuses on strong power moves. Tang soo do or a hybrid of various Korean styles sounds much more plausible. Great videos man! Good info and food for thought.
You bring up some good points and I did recently do a video on those arts. ruclips.net/video/NVMXXD6TWoQ/видео.html Thank you for pointing out the difference between Shotokan and Cobra Kai, I still get people who claim it's Shotokan but I still think it's Tang Soo Do. Thank you for the comment and the support!
@@ArtofOneDojo Cool I'll check it out when I get the chance. I agree that the art is definitely majority tang soo do, but feel that a few other Korean arts are mashed in there for looks. Tae kwon do is known for being very popular for use in movies and tv shows because of all the flashy kicks. It should be pointed out that one can often tell the type of environment a style developed in by its type of foot work and number and nature of its kicking techniques. Low kicks with firm hard stances like Shotokan, are indicative of the rough mountain terrains of japan. Its focus on power and straight forward approach to combat is telling of its popularity to be use in larger armies. This speaks all of the age of warring states when such arts were needed. Tae kwon do being kick heavy speaks of a much flatter environment where footing could be a bit lighter.
I have been studying Tang Soo Do for 23 years now. I can say for certain it’s Tang Soo Do. Last year I earned my 4th degree black belt.
Congrats my TSD brother. Nothing strikes like a TSD sidekick. 🥋
If I dont have a tang soo do school in my city what should i try
@@mrthan5676
Do a traditional karate style. I think uechi ryu is good. (Or goju ryu, shorin ryu)
Or kyokushin karate if you are looking to became strong.
Uechi ryu is the best for self defense
@@mrthan5676 taekwondo is a similar style but there probably a couple more alternatives. Idk if this helps now but yeah
@@mrthan5676 jeet kune do
Myagi Do is clearly Okinawan goju-ryu
Cobra Kai, however, is probably based in TSD, but very likely has a mix of tricks and techniques from a bunch of Karate styles, as well as whatever military combatives Silver and Crease would have learned in the military.
I agree with you 100% that The Cobra Kai karate is Based on Tang Soo Do.
Mike G it is Tang soo do Reese says “sho” in the first movie to get the class to bow. In Japan it is “rei”.
I thought it was taekwondo
@@agnikaineverdies7646 It can look like it because of the kicks. But here's the issue. In most media the style of taekwondo that is portrayed is WTF taekwondo that basically doesn't use hand techniques at all. All the really use they're hands for is to block. ITF taekwondo uses approximately 70% kicks and 30% hands, but this style isn't often shown in media. Not only that but it couldn't taekwondo because their kata has too many rigid movements. Taekwondo employs a movement called a "sine wave" between each technique on in a kata(In Taekwondo kata are called patterns). The sign wave is a means of relaxing the body in order to prepare for the next technique. If the sine wave is absent from pattern then it's going to look like karate. So this is the reason why it couldn't be taekwondo.
Tommy Moodie, wow as a taekwondo practitioner, it’s pretty embarrassing to be corrected, however I got my black belt a few years ago, and I only do sparring and never practice kata.
@@agnikaineverdies7646 don't feel bad. no one knows everything. Also alot of taekwondo people abandon traditional people and only focus on sparring, especially if they are on the national team. Also, did you do ITF or WTF?
Karate kid fun fact: the actor thay plays Mike Barnes in KK3 is a black belt under Sensei Fumio Demura, who plays Miyagis double. So you can technically say Mike Barnes got his black belt from Miyagi.
Also Tang Soo Do is the Korean pronunciation of Karate Do which means "The Way of the Tang Hand" which refers to the Chinese origin of both arts. Miyagi tells the story of his martial arts lineage back to China. When Japan annexed the Ryukyu Kingdom and renamed Okinawa, a lot of Okinawans emigrated to mainland Japan and introduced Karate but in order to be accepted in Japanese culture and having in mind that Japan was invading China at the time they changed the way Karate is written from "Tang hand" (A Chinese dynasty) to "Empty hand" which are both pronounced the same. As the Japanese Empire also expanded to Korea they also annexed it and introduced Karate. This is why many Karate black belts from the Japanese occupation era gathered together to create Tang Soo Do and Taekwondo after WWII.
Finally someone who knows the real story. You can argue the first styles of Karate were the beginning versions of MMA
Cobra Kai puts heavy emphasis on kicking which is taekwondo.
This is my understanding as well...That what we know of as Korean martial arts today are all variants of japanese martial arts. I suppose the only truly Korean aspect of them being the mountainous nature of the Korean countryside lends itself to much more long range leg strikes - kicks etc. Too bad the Hawarang-do has been lost in the sands of time. The Koreans wanted their own martial arts to thumb their nose at the Japanese, so they created TKD, TSD and Hapkido - all variants of Japanese counterparts. I'd be curious what a truly traditional Korean martial art looked like.
@Empatheia Multiversalis ,I think Cobra Kai is 85% TKD and 15% TSD , my reasoning for this is mostly because we all know that John Kreese was the founder of Cobra Kai and the person John Kreese trained under was in south Korea his name was Kim Sung Yung I think that's what his name was but yeah and TKD is very popular in South Korea and has been for many years I do think that there is TSD in Cobra Kai but more TKD
@@resurrectedstarships Look up for Taekkyon and Ssireum.
I Think that karate Kid, like alot of fight movies, use a mix of styles.
So MMA?
To attempt to answer your question re: Kobra Kai being Korean - I'm in the movie business and I know for a fact that the Kobra Kai dojo in the original 1984 film was shot at Jun Chong's Tae Kwon Do school on Lankershim Blvd. in North Hollywood. I was in a film project that shot there in 1999 and the Karate Kid movie was its claim to fame. That location closed within the past decade and is now vacant. (The school is still in business though). So I agree that Kobra Kai is of Korean origin, though it's using the term "Kai" to mean "training association" which is Japanese usage. If you look at their choreography as well, it is more of Tang Soo Do rather than Tae Kwon Do because of the stances. Of course, movie martial arts are a hybrid borrowing from different styles to create something that looks awesome on-screen, which is why many martial artists can feel confused as to the "style". I say it's closer to Tang Soo Do because Pat Johnson was choreographing a traditional tournament style, and his base style was a great foundation to build from. But the techniques were definitely adapted to the actors' abilities. Note that William Zabka's spinning kicks are actually spinning crescents and not spinning heel kicks as they look visually similar, but are easier to teach, and also the upright torso helps keep the kicking foot at a safe distance from the other actor. Of course, an expert is able to throw any kick with control, but training actors to perform martial arts on-screen is different as there's a time crunch to get them up to speed, and they're only learning the moves in the choreography.
Excellent information indeed, thank you for sharing that. Since you mentioned Jun Chong, I was able to find those same pictures on Google (at least for the photos by the front door). I still haven't found anything that matched the photo over the mirror. Some others have suggested that the photo over the mirror is Cho Hee Il, but have not verified that yet, but it would match along with what you have said.
@@ArtofOneDojo You're welcome! That photo at 13:06 looks to be Hee Il Cho (who also starred as the Korean coach in Best of the Best). 13:08's photo is out of focus, but looks like a photo I've seen in the book Dynamic Kicks by Chong Lee. My guess is that the photo high up on the wall over the mirror would have been one of the founders of their system. I come from an Okinawa Kenpo lineage (Nakamura Shigeru & Odo Seikichi), so I am not as familiar with the Korean lineage.
Not just The Karate Kid, but the kickboxing training scene from John Cusack's Say Anything was also filmed there.
I know the person who starred as Johnny has a second degree black belt in Tang Soo do
Korean martial arts use white uniforms with black trim. Cobra Kai uniforms are either solid black and sleeveless, or solid white in the dojo. So if Cobra Kai is Korean, why don't they wear Korean uniforms?
In the second season of Cobra Kai, when Daniel is setting up Miyagi Do karate Dojo - they have a picture of the actual Master Chojun Miyagi (same photo you use in your videos here) on the wall next to the photo of Pat Morita. I believe it’s to pay homage to Master Miyagi, which in my opinion would confirm Gojo-Ryu
Most old school martial arts celebrate the traditions and the masters of the past. So you will often find a shrine/museum of pictures, painting, weapons, and other artifacts related to the ancestral teachers and the history of the style. I've always been fascinated about those nuggets of history and the legends around them.
Don’t listen to people who say negative things about the video. We know it’s a movie. It’s an escape for us from real life for a few minutes. Thank you for the videos.
It is Tang Soo Do for sure, as Pat Johnson taught them it and also was in my Tang Soo Do Association back in the 80's/90's along with Chuck Norris, who's instructor (JC Shin) was also my instructor's instructor. I have been in Tang Soo Do and many other martial arts for 38 years now.
Practical for actual defense? I’m joining a UFAF dojo so I’ll be learning that
I have no idea why but I like watching this.
I agree that Cobra Kai is likely Tang Soo Do. Having studied a style that's also rooted in Moo Duk Kwan, it looks very familiar. As you mention, we hear Korean commands. It may also interest some to know that not only were the Korean arts often referred to as "Korean Karate," in the 70s & 80s, but Tang Soo Do means the "Art of the Tang Hand." This likely refers to the Tang Dynasty of China and being a form of "China Hand" martial arts, a common Japanese translation is Karate Do. In this case, as with early Kenpo/Kempo, it would be the form of the term where the kanji used for "Kara" would be the one meaning "China," instead of "empty."
I’m 54 year old martial artist that’s why I recognize the picture of the founder in cobra kai dojo. It’s Cho Hee Il one the most prominent Tae kwon do instructors of the 70’s and 80’s. He played the Korean’s coach in best of the best movie.
It's not Cho, its actually Jun Chong. If you do a Google search on Chong that exact same photo comes up. Plus if you go to Chong's personally Instagram account he has that photo posted alongside a screen shot of it behind Daniel's head like at 13:04. The Cobra Kai scenes were filmed at his old North Hollywood school.
I know the guy you mean! Didn't know that. Thanks for that info
@@barrettokarate I think you two are talking about two different pictures. I believe Lannel was talking about the very blurry image at 12:57 that the video identifies as the founder rather than the image at 13:04 which is one of the other images of martial artists Art of One was asking to identify.
@@Fardawg Either way its likely not Hee Il Choi and here's why. The Cobra Kai dojo scenes were filmed at one of Jun Chong's schools. The person at 13:04 is Chong himself. As for the person in the photo at 12:57, only Chong, his wife Ada or anyone of his students (like Simon and Phillip Rhee) from that era knows the answer.
But usually someone whose photo is placed in such a spot is either your instructor or the founder of your art(s) and Cho is neither. Chong holds ninth degree black belts in both taekwondo and hapkido so whoever is in that blurry photo is likely going to be either Hong Hi Choi or Choi Yong Sool or one of his teachers Kim Il Sang (TKD) or Sea Oh Choi (Hapkido).
Is it likely that Chong and Cho crossed paths? Definitely. I mean in the late 1980s Cho appeared in "The Best of the Best" alongside the Rhee brothers. But Chong had long since established himself in Los Angeles County with several schools and by all accounts was never a student of Cho. So there would be no reason for Cho's photograph to be placed in that spot. Maybe on the wall alongside other martial arts contemporaries and friends, but not up there.
Strike First! Strike Hard! No Mercy!
block first strike second no mercy when needed
@@itztvnder8832 PUSSY. STRIKE FIRTS! STRIKE HARD! NO MERCY!
@@markusr3533 HELL YA NO MORE FEELINGS BEAT HIS ASS
Dear friend,
Im Wado Ryu Karate Teacher and Also Ninjutsu Fuma Ryu Teacher.
I think the Cobra Kai of the original 1984 series also has goju ryu as a basic lineage.
I think the Cobra KAi had a personal style, based on Goju ryu, and Tang soo do.
I would like to bring to the attention of the Patches present in the kimono cobra kai pants, as well as a reference to Korean karate, there is also the symbol of Goju ryu.
My conclusion is that the Cobra kai, is a modern style that has merged different styles and that has created one in its own right.
I have all the patches from the Gi pants. Finally someone gets that Cobra Kai is collection of arts. I also believe that when they confirmed that Tang So Do was the influence for cobra kai in one of the flash backs, they left out the Goju Ryu influence. I mean the patch is on Chozen’s chest and Johnny’s pants in 1984.
I love the cobra kai show. I studied tang soo do when I was younger.
I'm still going with goju-ryu and American tang soo do. I mentioned this in the last video too, Robert Mark Kamen the man who wrote "The Karate Kid" has a background in Okinawan goju-ryu and isshin-ryu karate. Although Pat E. Johnson (who originally trained in Korean tang soo do, but later switched to Chuck Norris' Americanized version) was the stunt and fight choreographer Kamen was involved in some of the martial arts training. Although Johnson most likely knew a lot of Okinawan stylists, he didn't have any background in Okinawan karate.
Kamen based the name Miyagi on Chojun Miyagi the founder of goju-ryu and the actual character on a goju-ryu instructor that taught near the military base where he was stationed on during the 1960s. However, Pat Morita's inspiration for his portrayal of Mr. Miyagi was based on Fumio Demura. Demura was Morita's main stunt double, but his job was to do what Avildsen, Kamen and Johnson wanted for the martial arts sequences.
Johnson originally trained in Korea but around 1967 became a student of Norris and began learning his system (American tang soo do, pre-Chun Kuk Do/Chuck Norris System) which is a combination of tang soo do, shotokan, shito-ryu and judo. By the way the guys doing one-steps 10:28 are American tang soo do guys, not traditional Korean tang soo do. They're from an organization that split from Johnson's group back in the 1990s.
A lot of people are/were under the assumption that William Zabka is a black belt in tang soo do, including myself. I was the one who actually put that on his IMDB profile years ago. However, looking back I've never read or heard him ever make this claim. He did an interview years ago -- from the early 2000s I believe -- where he did say that after the movie he trained off and on with Johnson and his top student Roger Lacombe for 5 years and earning a green belt, which is where I got the info that I posted on IMDB. Looking back I made the mistake of assuming that that he did eventually earn his black belt and posted it without doing more checking. Maybe in the last 30 plus years he eventually did, but I don't think he's ever confirmed it.
As for the kata that Thomas Ian Griffith (Terry Silver) performs in the third movie. I think it's made up, unless it's a tae kwon do form. Griffith is a black belt in both kenpo karate and tae kwon do, but that definitely doesn't look like any kenpo form I've ever seen. And it's definitely not one taught in the original Norris system.
With regards to the photos hanging in the dojo, those from the actual dojang where the the scenes were shot. The guy in the photo by Daniel's head at 13:05 is Jun Chong. The dojo scenes were filmed at his tae kwon do school.
Anyway, but the best way to know the truth regarding which styles where the inspiration for Miyagi-do and Cobra Kai is to ask either Kamen or Johnson. They're both still alive and there are ways to get a hold of them, especially Johnson
I agree with everything you've said and you are correct about the photos by the front door. Some others have suggested Cho Hee Il for the one above the mirror but I haven't found a matching picture yet.
Terry Silver's form is not from any Kenpo I am familiar with either, so it probably is just made up. Robert Mark Kamen does have that background but he did not choreography the films though I am sure he had a LOT of input, and it would make sense especially with his Goju Ryu background. I am in the beginning attempts to reach out to Mr. Johnson. It would be great to interview him if he was interested in participating.
Regarding Kamen, what you just wrote is actually what I meant to write. Unfortunately reading back what I wrote I worded it wrong and it looks like I'm insinuating that he had part in the choreography. Johnson was the sole choreographer, but like you said (and what I wanted to say) Kamen gave his 2-cents regarding the Okinawan styles. Here's another little tidbit...in the second film we see a "nunti bo" being used. While in Okinawa Kamen trained in Matayoshi kobudo under Shinpo Matayoshi himself.
I'm pretty sure Mr. Johnson would be glad to speak with you. I think the best way to get a hold of his contact information might be either through Roger Lacombe or Roger Quinlan in Southern California. Both are high ranking black belts under him.
Regarding, the photo in the dojo I think it might be best to ask Chong himself. He and his wife still teach here in Los Angeles county. I also doubt that photo would be of Hee Il Cho. Although I don't know either personally, as far as I know other than both being Korean and tae kwon do experts I don't think there's any affiliation between them, especially in the form of a teacher-student relationship for him Chong to hang a photo of Cho in that spot.
I just wanted to add , especially as someone whom trained in Isshin-ryu , however briefly , that Isshin-ryu is basically a fusion of Goju-ryu and Shorin-ryu . Both of which its founder , Tetsuo Shimabuku , trained in himself . olemiss.edu/orgs/karate/steinburgarticle.html , www.journaled.com/JED/MA/Isshinryu/index.html
Thank you for the in-depth detail, this clarifies alot of curiosity of the style being presented on film and on youtube in the Karate Kid series. As a fellow martial artist (Taekwondo), i still admire the choreography of each of the fight scenes and even the classes shown in the film and series. Regardless to which style it may incline to originate from, I fully enjoy watching a good martial arts story. Keep up the great work
My base art that I started with 50 years ago was Tang Soo Do. It is the heart of everything I have been teaching all my life. With that said, I have studied other arts as well... For the Tang Soo Do, it is a hard and soft style as well. Hard side of it is Shotokan. Soft side of it is Kung Fu influence and the kicks are from Korean Kicking. This is just a simplified answer, which goes to help explain background. The Tang Soo Do I have taught through the years is very aggressive following the spirit of the Tiger...
What a pleasant video to receive in my sub box. Why didn’t Miyagi teach Daniel about ‘kime’? If Daniel used Kime in the movies, he wouldn’t have had as much trouble.
The Karate Kid (1984) is one of the greatest martial arts movies of all time. Despite most of the main characters not being actual martial artists, this movie inspired me and many others to want to learn a martial art. Like you mentioned in a previous comment, back in the 80s most styles were simply referred to as "karate". But after seeing this film, I totally bought into the notion that you could learn karate techniques by doing chores around the house. And if you only had 3 months to prepare for a competition against black belts who have trained for years, this was the best way to quickly measure up to them.
Love this comment! The Karate Kid was also one of my inspirations to train in the Martial Arts, but, as my Sifu told me, 3 months of training would've resulted in my possible death in an actual tournament even if Bruce Lee himself had been my teacher, lol!
For the opportunity to train with Bruce Lee for 3 months, I would almost be willing to test that theory. But I'm sure your Sifu is right. :-)
I also agree with the idea that Miyagi do karate is Okinawan gōjū ryū. In the second movie, as you correctly pointed out, you can see the fist patch, which is the symbol of Gogen Yamaguchi's Japanese version of gōjū ryū. Moreover, the whole Wax on wax off, paint the fence etc are basically a set of excercise called "rokkishu" which is the root of the tensho kata, developed by Miyagi Chojun.
Your explanation is excellent! My teacher is Professor Wayne Carman. His teacher was Master Kang Rhee. In recent times I’ve been researching a good bit into the lineage of the arts. It turns out that Master Rhee had a couple of teachers that were Japanese. And their lineage traces back to Okinawa. The katas that we were taught were very Japanese as were the techniques. But it’s always been interesting how Master Rhee would call his art Pa Sa Ryu. And on occasion he would refer to it as TKD. But the techniques always looked suspiciously like Okinawan Kempo. At this point I have studied Pa Sa Ryu, Chinese Kempo, Okinawan Kempo, Kali, Silat, Aikido and a few other things. At this point, it’s just a mix of fun things to do and train in. And I love it all!
Perhaps the style of martial art practiced by Cobra Kai is a sort of bastardization of Tang Soo Do. Consider the 1st movie. We find a photograph of John Kreese in military garb similar to that utilized during the early years of the Vietnam war. This would suggest that Kreese was possibly MACV/SOG. When you stop to think what the CIA has already declassified on SOG, it would follow that Kreese was in the CIA's Special Operations Group and was given training in Korea in Tang Soo Do. And while in Vietnam, Kreese mixed things up in his own training to adapt the the jungle and the fighting style used in Vietnam.
The writer of the movie was a goju ryu practitioner and the karate kid was a tribute to his style. Which is mentioned in the documentary the real Mr. Miyagi on Netflix.
In the series, while reminiscing about his time in Vietnam, Reese trainer mentioned that he was trained in the art of Tang Soo Do.
Awesome! Cobra Kai Ryu will never die... especially with all of us die hard martial artists. 😊👍
I agree with you that Miyagi-Do is definitely based upon one of the real-world Okinawan schools. I'd say for Cobra Kai it's either Tang Soo Do or maybe Hapkido as we do see quite a bit of throws, takedowns, and even holds in the show. Also, Hapkido is still pretty kick-heavy and has a lot of the same kicks as both TKD and TSD. So yeah, either TSD or Hapkido.
It's Chuck Norris' style, Tang Soo Do. I think it's a made up kata at the end. I've never seen a formal kata with spinning moves like that.
That's what I was wondering, if it was made up because it didn't look like any Kata I was familiar with either.
@@ArtofOneDojo I've seen vaguely similar kata with spinning moves in Kuk Sool Won and Hwa Rang Do, especially tornado crescent kicks. Can't pinpoint a specific one, though.
In my Tang Soo Do, from the UK, I've seen bits of Terry's kata by other Master belts. I think it's an amalgamation of a few different kata's in one.
From the comments yes it’s not based on any real Kata’s. It’s been made up and put together. In general, it’s not wrong to make up and have your own katas many systems / styles have done that breaking away from traditional systems. Just as long as you can apply them or have some way of using those techniques.
Terry silver uses high kicks in the kata, only Korean styles use high kicks 😉
I agree with your assessment of Kobe Kai being Tang Soo do. I’ve practiced both Shotokan and ITF TKD. Yes there are TKD similarities, but it looks closer to Shotokan than TKD.
I just realised both Cobra Kai and Miyaga Do Dojo are McDojos. Giving out black belts after one season? Shape up!
Yeah...especially since Miquel was a white belt in the school all the way up to the tournament. I take it that Johnny just does what Miyagi did in the first movie, just put on the black belt in order to meet the requirements. But I agree with you...suddenly everyone has black belts.
Hey Coach, I wanted to say that I really like your style of instruction. There are a lot of bros in the martial arts world and it can be tiresome, but I think I find your level headed pedagogy refreshing. Instead of insisting 'this is real... and that is B.S.' you talk us through the pros and cons of different approaches like a college professor. I think that is a better way to come at the martial arts than with all the negative attitude that this subject often conjures online. Walking away from sport fighting, I find that you are the type of traditional coach I'd like to follow and learn from. Thanks.
Thank you so much for the kind words. There is definitely too much of the negative attitude and the martial arts are supposed to be about self betterment and defense, not putting others down. Thank you for your support :)
The kata you mentioned at the end looked VERY Tang Soo Do-ee to me. I saw a lot of parallels with forms I've done and shared techniques.
Another fun fact. The All Valley Tournament was actually a real tournament that was held for the movie. Pat Johnson said in a interview that it was easier for them to hold a real tournament then to set up a fake one. He told the competitors to ignore the cameras
YES! I was just finding out about this. William Zabka and Ralph Macchio just did an interview and they talked about that. I was thinking of doing a 3rd Cobra Kai video and talking about that.
So I was looking forward to this video, and after watching if, I feel that.... I WAS NOT DISAPPOINTED, you rocked it, sir! I love the evidence you provide, and that while you are confident in your answers, you open the door for people to provide their evidence. However, you kind of smack that down when you show the side by side comparison supporting your arguments.
I heavily agree with Tang Soo Do/Taekwondo for Cobra Kai due to my personal background in Taekwondo. I've actually learned and used in sparring some of the same techniques as Johnny, including the jumping inner cresent kick he uses first against the teenager in the TV show. Great analysis and fantastic RUclips channel!!
Totally feel that Chozen's redemption arc was based Fumio Demura Sensei. No wife, no kids
Never trained karate only boxing,bjj, and muay thai. These videos are still really interesting to me. A lot of cool history.
Yeah totally agree. The only kyokushin detail was full contact when they fight with no protective gear.
The location for the Kobra Kai dojo was a TKD dojang from Hollywood I believe, so I suppose that picture frame could be from Choi Hong Hi the founder of TKD
So many people hate on the Korean arts lol
Cobra Kai Tang So Do just get over it peeps
Korean arts are extremely underrated. I used to underrate taekwondo as well when i wasn't practising martial arts. When i actually started it, i realized it was something completely different from what i thought in the past. its a very versatile martial art that takes techniques from other styles and adds it to its already powerful arsenal. Korean arts also aren't portrayed in media very often. When it is, it is portrayed improperly/ unfairly. They always portray WTF taekwondo which is the sports version of the martial art. As a result, it is made a laughing stock in movies because it can't show proper usage of survival.
Tang Soo Do to me is a more straightforward version of the Japanese arts.
@@tommymoodie2157
I have been having this doubt also. Many videos show TKD being beat by muay thai practitioners. I still was curious about TKD and wanted to know more.
Could you suggest some legendary fighters, current fighters of TKD?
@@unknowninfinium4353 Scott Adkins is known for taekwondo. He plays boyka in the undisputed series. Bren Foster is also a popular taekwondo practitioner. He was also on an episode of fight science. Michael Jai White also does taekwondo but he is mostly known for karate. As for practitioners who aren't actors and just fighters. There is Nicholas Dusard and Kenneth Edwards, whom are Jamaica's most popular tkd practioners. Also Jamaica is number 1 in the world for tkd.
Also yes they do show muay Thai beating taekwondo a lot. Really and truly if its a match Muay Thai actually should win. Because they have many more options for attacks. Muay Thai utilizes fists, feet, knees and elbows, while taekwondo only uses hands and feet. Also in taekwondo matches hitting below the belt isn't allowed, neither or throws or grapples(even though its not like you could grapple with those types of safeties on, I.e, the gloves). So muay Thai has a lot more options to go against tkd. I also think muay Thai fighters might be conditioned better than us in order to take punishment. Tkd practitioners can hit harder. Like a lot harder. This is for a match though. We are taught almost every tool in martial arts, whether it low kicking, sweeping, throwing, elbow strike,knee strikes. All of it is there. We just aren't allowed to use them in tournaments. If its a street fight anything is possible. Either side could win because every fighter is different.
Korean martial arts appeared in the 1950s and were "inspired" by the Japanese arts, since the Japanese have built many schools in Korea with arts such as Karate, Judo, and Kendo being part of the school curriculum for boys. Korean arts are very very young, have no historical roots, and feel as legit as Ashida Kim's ninjutsu. High kicks were never a staple of real martial arts because of the high risk factor, if you see traditional Chinese shaolin forms, or Okinawan karate, kicks are rarely done above the waist. Korean arts on the other hands were introduced for the movies, thy took karate and added acrobatics into it for differentiation, they are flashy, acrobatic, beautiful, but have nothing to do with traditional martial arts at all, it is closer to break-dancing or k-pop.
Hello Sensei Dan how have you been? Excellent analogy of the martial arts in the Karate Kid films, along with the Cobra Kai TV series, in this second segment. First off the so called 'crane kick ' in the Karate Kid, differs from that of the Japanese-Brazilian, former UFC Light Heavyweight champion, Lyoto 'The Dragon ' Carvalho Machida (町田 カルバヨウ龍太) ! Lyoto Machida himself is a Shotokan Karate Sensei, third dan black belt, as well as a Brazilian Jiu-jitsu black belt. The jumping kick that you showed him, performing during one of his UFC fights, is what we call in styles of Japanese Karate, be it Goju-Ryu, Shotokan, Shito-Ryu, Kyokushin and so forth a (tobi mae geri)! Exactly as you have described it, literally a jumping front kick in terms of its literal translation. Lyoto Machida obviously coming predominantly from a Shotokan Karate background (Machida Karate), as he and his family often refer to their branch of the art, is where he would have learned such a type of kick in the style's syllabus. We ourselves in Kyokushin Karate practice it exactly the same way, totally nothing to do with the Karate Kid film's version.
I definitely believe that the Cobra Kai are more Korean martial arts influenced, in terms of their martial arts style practice. Thomas Ian Griffith, who portrayed Terry Silver in the third Karate Kid film, is a black belt in both Kenpo Karate and Taekwondo (though what degree black belt, in both arts he is precisely ranked at, is unknown). From the segment that you have shown of him practising his kata in the Cobra Kai dojo of Sensei John Kreese in the Karate Kid three film, my analogy is that he was performing a Taekwondo form, given that it looks very reminiscent, to what I have seen in Taekwondo schools, forms wise. Though him also being a Karate practitioner, film wise he might combined elements of both, to give it a distinct, unique, creative and flamboyant look, for the film. I doubt that he might have been lying about his master being from Korea, when he pretended to go to Mr. Miyagi's place to apologise on behalf of his Korean master, for John Kreese's dishonourable actions. I cannot remember the name he mentioned in that scene, of the fake apology, nevertheless he did mention the name of their Korean grandmaster, which was definitely a Korean name and not a Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese, etc name.
Based on that I definitely say their martial art style is Tang Soo Do (often referred to as Korean Karate )! It is not Taekwondo for certain, because usually Taekwondo has wider stances, also they bounce allot up and down, plus Taekwondo athletes, at least the Olympic and sport oriented version of it, tend to have their hands down low, given that they do not need to worry about punches to the face.
What allot of people do not realise Sensei Dan, is that during Japan's occupation of the Korean peninsula as a whole, when it was still a unified, geographical and national entity, there was a vast array of cross pollination in terms of martial arts systems. That is to say the Koreans took elements of Japanese martial arts such as Karate, judo, jiu-jitsu, aikido, kendo and incorporated into their own native martial arts systems of Hwa Rang Do, Taekkyon and so forth. Vice versa of course the Japanese took elements from Korean martial arts, incorporating them into their styles of self defence. Of course politics and cultural pride, tend to lend themselves to be biased, of which often neither side is willing to admit their influences on one another.
Looking at the style of fighting of the Cobra Kai, I definitely recognise it as Tang Soo Do, of which world wide its most famous practitioner is the legendary Chuck Norris. He has heavily show cased it in films such as Sidekicks with the late Jonathan Brandis (RIP) as his co-star, also many times has featured his Tang Soo Do art in his own TV series, Walker Texas Ranger. In Walker Texas Ranger often you see Chuck Norris have episodes heavily based on this art, at a competition within the storyline, or some sort of training segment at his own school, again as part of that particular episode's storyline. The Cobra Kai are definitely not Goju-Ryu, Shotokan or Kyokushin Karate based, in terms of their style. Our stances in Kyokushin Karate, for example are not as wide, nor almost in a similar Taekwondo type of stance, at a ninety degree, semi horse riding stance, as seen in the Cobra Kai TV series, or the Karate Kid. We in Kyokushin Karate adopt an upright, evenly balanced stance, similar to that of kickboxers or Kenpo Karate stylists, from what I have seen. Also like boxers and kickboxers, Muay Thai stylists, our fists are held high near our faces, with our elbows close to our ribs.
The Cobra Kai are more in line with that of Tang Soo Do, in terms of their fighting stance, hands and guard positioning. The person that was trolling you with the bogus theory about Mr. Miyagi's art being Jeet Kune Do, is ludicrous and laughable 😁. First of all I did not see any Bruce Lee/Mohammed Ali foot shuffle, nor the Wing Chun type of punching, blocking and hand trapping, that Bruce Lee was famous for. Instead Mr. Miyagi was pretty much stationary and hardly mobile, in terms of his fighting stance, posture and footwork. Excellent video as always, highly informative, educational and entertaining. I wonder if there might be a part three? I am certain this is going to open the debate even further of which it might not be a bad idea, to see if Sensei Fumio Demura, who doubled for the late Noriyuki 'Pat ' Morita as Mr. Miyagi, or Sensei Pat Johnson, who choreographed the fights in the first three Karate Kid films, might want to give accurate information, regarding those films' arts. Oh it just dawned upon me Sensei Dan it would also be interesting to cover the so called Karate Kid remake film, with Jackie Chan and Jayden Smith. That fim should have been called The Kung Fu Kid instead. Wishing you all the best as always. I am still gathering the Kyokushin Karate material for you, sorry for taking so long, my apologies. Best regards as always, from Melbourne, Australia 🇦🇺, Osu! 👍 ☺ ✌
I really don't understand why people say Kyokushin, I don't see it at all. You provide a lot of great information and I agree with all of it and at this point I'm pretty confident with the "Goju Ryu" and "Tang Soo Do" claim. I might do a third video, a few people have asked for another one. There are still some possible topics to cover here (The tournaments, Mike Barnes, The Kung Fu in the remake).
As always I appreciate your support and I hope to do more movie/TV show breakdowns.
As a practitioner of Kung Fu I was a little curious as to why they would name a movie, based in China, with a Chinese Sifu, the "Karate Kid" til I realized that the Karate Kid would probably sell more movie tickets, lol
That is exactly what happened. Sony wanted to draw box office dollars from the marketability of the "Karate Kid" name. The way they addressed it in the film was horrible too. Dre was telling his Mom about it and she goes "How do you like Karate?" and he said "It's not Karate Mom, it's Kung Fu" and she says "Karate, Kung Fu...whatever". So yeah, that's how studio executives chose to address using the wrong art with the wrong name.
Art of One Dojo I personally feel scene for scene it was almost plagiarised, as in almost copying scenes from the first Karate Kid film. Now you are totally correct Sensei Dan, what a lazy way for the producers of the so called Karate Kid remake film with Jackie Chan and Jayden Smith, to try and justify using the word karate, in the film's title. Where his mother calls it Karate, while her son Dre, tells it is Kung Fu, is a cheap tactic, as you said by them calling the film The Karate Kid! To which as you said, she exclaimed: Karate, Kung Fu, whatever.
It comes to no surprise, that in the years after World War 2, in at least the English speaking countries, as I know it, everyone just about used the term Karate. To refer to any martial arts systems, be it Kung Fu, judo, jiu-jitsu, aikido, taekwondo, Hapkido etc. They even ripped off the concept of the crane kick, as the winning technique at the end. Yet what makes me laugh is that they called it the art of the Cobra 🐍, just from his snake hand movement. Nevertheless he was standing in a crane, one leg raised off the ground type of stance. I have seen the snake 🐍 Kung Fu forms and none of them, although having formidably outstanding kicks, especially in the Northern Kung Fu styles, where they are generally more acrobatic, then the styles generally practiced in the Southern part of China. Snake Kung Fu forms do not start or finish in a one leg raised off the ground, pose or stance. The only ones I have seen some what similar in such stance or pose, are crane style Kung Fu, phoenix fist, eagle claw Kung Fu styles for example.
I still believe that the remake film, should have been called The Kung Fu Kid, also they should have been more original in my opinion, in terms of their storyline narrative and so forth!
Jennifer Pyrce exactly they were trying to ride on the nostalgia of the original, properly titled the Karate Kid first film's popularity. Those who were already young adults and those of us growing up with The Karate Kid films, were hoped by the film executives, to go and watch it. Plus of course the new kids and young teenagers, of this current generation, as its main targeted audience.
I think miyagi do is most likely goju ryu. I study off of Fumio Demura so I can confirm it's not shito ryu. In the first karate kid movie, the most famous thing is wax on, wax off, paint the fence, paint the house, sand the floor, etc. We use some goju ryu katas in our organization, one is called tensho, and it looks EXACTLY like paint the fence and paint the house.
I would have to agree with your assessment of Cobra Kia’s style being a variant of Tang Soo Do. I am a third degree black belt in Tang Soo Do and I will say that Cobra Kai’s variant is more aggressive then normal but I believe that to be for the movies/series. As for Silver’s Kata I don’t recognize it but with Tang Soo Do borrowing a lot from both Chinese and Japanese styles it can be difficult to nail down. I will say a lot of Silvers movement use Tang Soo Do principles as does Johnny’s fighting style.
another fun fact to support rhe tang soo do thing is Jhoon Rhee, a grandmaster of taekwando was teaching what he called "korean karate" in texas. After receiving the ROK Army Field Manual (which contained martial arts training curriculum under the new name of Taekwondo) from General Choi, Rhee began using the name "Taekwondo".
Once again I agree with your assessment that Cobra Kai is practicing a variant of Tang Soo Do. I have practiced both Tant Soo Do, and American Kenop and this didn't seem Kepmoish at all to me. While I studied Shotokan for a very short time and Lotus style as well, but the combination of kicks, hand techniques and mannerisms all point to TSD to me. Good catch about the Choonbe, my TSD instructor Master Steve Rakel used that term throughout our classes.
Your devotion to martial arts' nerdisms is truly awesome. Keep it up!
About everything being called "Karate" back in the 80s: I practice Hwa Rang Do, but our dojang originally said "Karate" on the sign out front. The reason is that when they first opened, everyone knew what "Karate" was, but no one knew what Hwa Rang Do (or Tai Kwan Do, which we also teach) was - saying "Karate" was the only way to let people know that it was a martial arts school and not something like a Tai Chi studio or an Asian restaurant. And I have to admit, when I decided to start training in martial arts, I wouldn't have known what that was either and probably wouldn't have stopped in. They've since changed the sign to read "Martial Arts" with "Hwa Rang Do • Tai Kwan Do" below it.
The jumping front kick, CAN be 'advancing' or 'stationary'... it's up to the person executing it. It 'can' even be executed in retreating fashion, but that is more than a little awkward for most people, including me, and would only have use, as a 'reflexive' adaptation of the kick, to adjust for an opponent that gets too close for the kick to work any other way.
I'd call the 'crane kick' a cinematic/stylized version of the jumping front kick.
I definitely agree that the same basic kick exists in too many arts to name, and that there's no such thing, as a technique that cannot be defended against, and countered.
On the whole, I tend to agree with you, on your breakdown, of which arts were 'borrowed from' to create the different styles between the Miyagi Do and Cobra Kai schools. Goju Ryu and Tang Soo Do certainly seem to fit the bill.
Both of your videos on this subject are, I think, spot on, in large part!
I agreed with ya on the first video, and still do. I'm almost 100% sure you got it right. Thanks for the video!
I am a Tang Soo Do practitioner for 20 plus years. Yes you are correct Shotokan and Tang Soo Do are very similar. I’ve even heard TSD referred to as Korean Shotokan. I believe it’s both in the movie. If you have ever been to a dojo/Dojang they are very traditional flags, kanji, etc. if they are using a mix of Korean and Japanese commands it’s a mix of styles that this guy put together to make a Frankenstein type martial arts.
My Sensei (Peter Urban) was a consultant for the movie.
GoJu generally has low kicks.
All Okinowan Karate is the same.
It's called To Dai.
Ishin Ryu, GoJu Ryu etc are brand names.
Pete called all Karate "same religion, different language"...
Pete loved Aiki. He called Aikido graduate school.
For me, the most anticipated video Mr. Dan. Well done. I have watched the Cobra Kai RUclips release and thoroughly recommend it. Lots of pop culture references and Johnny’s dialogue is hilarious (stuck in the 80’s). Family and I binged watched the series over a weekend.
With regards to the martial arts, that were the basis of this Hollywood blockbuster. I totally agree on both fronts; with one exception. This being a pet hate of mine. I’m more comfortable with Tang Soo Do and not modern day Tae Kwon Do. Particularly with regards to what is being portrayed as their “fighting style”.
Let me elaborate. We see TKD mainly from the tournament arena (televised or RUclips). With its point system mechanics in place. Many TKD realist know that tournament style fighting is very, very different from a real life scenario.
Some TKD practitioners that enter the Octagon, I would say display a more realistic medium to high guard for obvious practicality. When you are sparring with a sensor pad/point system versus someone trying to knock you out as efficiently as possible, your application and training changes dramatically.
Saying a style is Tae Kwon Do, is much like saying it’s Karate. We ALL know there is a deeper motivation driving the style. Such as philosophy of the school/lineage, application weighed against practicality.
Thanks again Mr. Dan, for creating an amicable platform for debate. A Scholar and a Gentleman!
That’s kukkiwon (WT) taekwondo. Chang-hon (ITF) taekwon-do uses more realistic rules in their sparring (more like kickboxing) and actually do train grapples and throws (not to the extent of judo unfortunately, but at least they train it!). That style displays a lot more of the Shotokan that inspired it and the other major Korean arts (but don’t tell the Koreans, they’re still mad about that whole occupation thing). Of course, I do think the art displayed on Cobra Kai is tangsoodo, but with a lot of live combat maneuvers thrown in.
I'm so glad I found your channel and subscribed. I hope you are able to do an episode of Krav Maga, Muy Tai and Capoeira. Perhaps shade light on Frank Dux and the movie Bloodsport. I'm sorry for getting carried away with the requests you just do such a wonderful and respectful job of explaining all the arts. Thank you so much!
I understand why some folks suggest shotokan for cobra Kai but for sure no one would issue a ready command in Korean in a shotokan class. Johnny’s first fight in the series shows his capacity to throw and strike which are still integral even to modernized shotokan nonetheless those techniques are shared by many arts. Tang So Do and Taekwondo as you mentioned share a history with shotokan and feature versions of the several katas including the Taeyuku, Heian (Pinan), Kankudai and Jion. I had the same questions about what was what but I think you figured it out. It makes sense to me.
Shotokan practitioner here. I'm not seeing Johnny fight in the Shotokan style in the tournament scenes. 50% of the techniques thrown would be reverse punches. I've never seen a crescent kick thrown at a Shotokan tournament. It's in our kata, but isn't practiced as a scoring technique for kumite. Roundhouse kicks look Korean style, they come up at a 45 degree angle to meet their target. In Shotokan the roundhouse comes across horizontally to meet the target. I don't see TKD, since Johnny only throws one kick per leg and doesn't do any multiple kicks from a single chambered wind up. Also when asked if its TKD, Johnny says its Karate. So, TSD for the win.
I am a student of Fumio Demura. I can confirm miyagi do is not shito ryu. Ive recognized None of the katas, but in Cobra Kai, there was a scene where Daniel's students were performing a kata similar to kushanku dai. It was only faintly similar though...
Agreed, I decided it was a variation of Tae Kwon Do/Tang Su Do because of the Korean phrase "chumbee
"
It could be that he's just practicing ad-lib. When I was being taught how to do kata demo for I form katas for a measley yellow belt I was taught to picture real opponents & to throw punches at them as though they were actually there.
He could be doing that with no defined pattern. Just playing out the moves as they come to him. Not as effective as real opponents but I could totally see him practicing erratic patterns instead of formal ones.
When I was a kid I studied Tang su do. I remember jumbee was executed by bringing the fist up together facing yourself about chin level while raising on the left leg and bringing the right foot to the left knee before bringing down fist and the right leg into (ready) stance and saying Kia! Soon after that school closed I began to study Kenpo. The fancy junbee became ready stance. Now I practice on my own and use the korean way to present ready stance and honor Mr Parker by using gravitational marrage when lowering the fist and foot. 😁 Kinda silly I know but meaningful for me. Also excuse my spelling. Thank you.
Tang Soo Do_Su-Bhak Do_ Muk Duk Kwan comes in mind when the actor playing as Terry Silvers mentioned his sensei in Korea. Out of those 3!!!!
The kata that terry silver was performing reminds me of kata that I've seen in seido karate. Im not sure if it actually is but it does remind me of it
I’ve heard it was tang soo do. Seems to be a consensus. I know zabka actually practices tang soo do irl and funny enough the dojo I want to attend near me is UFAF, which is based tang soo do. So perhaps cobra Kai karate specifically is closer to chun kuk do, the Norris style. I say that because pat Johnson was a master in that system and he taught the original KK cast
I can add this:
- In Taekwon-Do we call our instructors "Sabon", "Sabonim", etc depending on their belt rank we do not call the "Sensei" (I think in Sipalki-Do they use the same names) so if in Tang Soo Do they call their teachers "Sensei" it's definetly Tang Soo Do
- Kreese fought in Vietnam right? The Vietnam war was the event were Taekwon-Do was put to test to see if it worked (the art was originally desing to be used in the battlefield by the korean army) there was a company name the Tiger Company who was very efficient in combat and they all did TKD, so that could be a conection to Kreese
I think it could be any of them (or a hollywood version of both or none of them) most of the agresivnes must come from Kreese own personality and his wat expirience anyway so we could say that is just some random martial art thought by koreans xD
I think you're spot on, on this and the previous video.
The kata looks made up for sure as I have done similar by adding a lot of kicks to standard katas, which most do not have high spinning kicks or that many in them because they are easier to do and keep balance while not doing a kata. Most katas stick to basic kicks not a bunch of spinning wheel and hook kicks. He looks like he made it up as went along as I do as well.
William also says in this interview Pat Johnson taught him Tang soo do, and Daniel was taught a soft Okinawan style. ruclips.net/video/nWASxKUS3yM/видео.html
Per the Karate Kid Fan page it state's about John Kreese. "The unit was trained extensively in guerilla tactics, demolition and hand-to-hand combat by Captain Turner. Turner had previously served in the Korean War and was trained in the art of Tang Soo Do under the tutelage of master Kim Sun-Yung of South Korea. Kreese was taught everything that Turner knew, for the purposes of close quarter combat."
Pay Johnson was the fight choreographer, so it's Chuck Norris's UFAF Tang Soo Do, and Taekwando.
great job with number two. man i love nureding out to martial art talks. great content nice work paying respects to the master Fumio Demura. I hate debates of which art is better then another. but man do i love breaking down theory's, lineage,history and origins.. great content man..
Thank you! :) Some people are asking for a 3rd one, is that something you'd like to see as well? (still a lot to analyze in the Karate Kid universe).
personally i love this stuff. im 35 80s kid grew up doing hapkido, then kempo and now BJJ I loved the karate kid trilogy i love this stuff, i would tune in if you made a third one. I also like how you try very hard to respect the arts and history . on aside note ill like to see a hapkido video, or a blood sport break down. lol sorry i love 80s 90s martial art flicks.. great work tho.. keep them coming.
Cobra Kai is definitely not Kyokushin. While I'm still in my early kyu stage of Kyokushin a lot of the kicks are wider and theirs more jumping involved. Kyokushin keeps things grounded and the kicks are executed closer. Also Cobra Kai fighters tend to target the head with punches. In Kyokushin you're conditioned to target the body with your hand strikes. Johnny's guard out more in his fighting stance. In Kyokushin your guard is closer to your body and chin in the fighting stance. Those are just some examples of how Cobra Kai is clearly not Kyokushin.
Good analysis.
Just for laughs no Kyokushin teacher will emphasise sweeping the leg over turning it to jelly with Muay Thai style thigh kicks.
@@psychedashell you are so right indeed
@空手家 The reason the kicks I'm talking about are known as Thai kicks rather than Karate kicks is the weapon.
No Karate before Kyokushin used the shin as a weapon for any kick, they used the knees and the feet but not the shin and Mas Oyama - the creator of Kyokushin happily admitted he took that idea from Muay Thai.
@空手家 Nobody said Karate low kicks never existed, there are kicks used in Kyokushin made unique among Karate styles by the WEAPON and due to this acknowledged as Thai kicks rather than Karate kicks.
Before Kyokushin the WEAPON used for a Karate low kick was never the shin, it was the foot - the top of the foot, the blade of the foot, the ball of the foot, the flat of the foot, the instep of the foot, the heel of the foot.
Muay Thai practitioners make a big fuss about their knees and elbows being special but Oyama was more impressed by the Thai conditioning and use of the shin and talks about it in several recorded interviews and one of his books - "This Is Karate".
I've heard that the actor that played Johnny went on to train extensively in Tang Soo Do as a result of his training for the film. I think that may be another point that could also speak to it being Tang Soo Do, provided what I've heard is true.
He did afterwards yes, that was one of the quick taking points of the video. Probably because like you said, he started training in the film so probably kept up with it.
Art of One Dojo, I practice taekwondo and I can’t see any difference in my style to Johnny’s
Kyokushin use a lot of kicks but with shins , low kicks oriented , knees .. but its contain many spinning kicks but the pace and movement are completely different of the taekwondo and korean arts.
John Kreese and Terry Silver learn Tang Soo Do in Vietnam in the 60's, and train with it's founder in Korea into the 1980's
Karate Kid 1, 3 and the Cobra kai series all had the Cobra kai school participate in point sparring where Kyokushin does full contact karate.
True, excellent point, however there may be some flexibility in that the All Valley Karate Tournament is an open tournament and allows a mix of students from different styles. If it was a Kyokushin ONLY tournament, you are 100% correct. In the All Valley though, a Kyokushin student could still compete they would just have to follow the point system rules of the tournament.
That's just a technicality though, I don't believe Cobra Kai was Kyokushin at all.
I'll take this a step further. I believe cobra kai is tkd and tang soo do. For the time frame and " old school karate" my 1st instructor was my father he trained in the 70s and early 80s. Back then at leastvim the Midwest everything was a blend. My dad taught did tkd but always called it karate. But the tae kwon do he taught was nothing like modern day. In 1983 another gentleman took over my dad's school and he was tang soo do. After my dad past I went on a quest to find my dad's original style the forms that my dad taught were in fact tang soo do. But called it tkd so I think it it's both. Awesome discussion
Very learningful vids! Keep up the good work! :)
I’ve trained in Shito Ryu for 15 years and am a 2nd Dan in that style. However, when at uni I did train with a Shotokan club for 4 years. Since then, I have been training with 3 clubs: a Kyokushin club close to where I live, which is the club I trained with the most before lockdown, having even competed in a Kyokushin competition; my own club and, mostly online and some outdoor training since lockdown, another uni club that oddly mixes Shotokan and Goju Ryu. Having substantial experience in all of these styles of Karate, I can safely say that I agree with your conclusions
Cobra Kai practiced the American version of Tang Soo Do that was founded by Chuck Norris in 1967. American version is more of a hybrid system with the Japanese kata forms and the Korean hyung forms.
I could totally go along with that, it makes sense, especially since Pat Johnson trained under Chuck Norris.
Another great video Mr Dan. I hope there will be a 3rd part to this. Also do you plan on breaking down the Martial Arts that appear in other films. A few movies that I can think of that you might take a look at is "Sidekicks" ( a 1992 film) which stared Jonathan Brandis, Chuck Norris and Mako. Sidekicks is as far as I can tell Karate Kid but with Kung Fu. Another film I though would be great for you to look into and talk about is "The Perfect Weapon" which is a 1991 film staring Jeff Speakman which has been called the greatest on screen portrayal of Kenpo.
Thank you. Some people are asking for a 3rd and there are a few ways I could go with it (The Next Karate Kid, or the 2010 Kung Fu Remake, or do an analysis of all the people in the tournaments, or Mike Barnes...)
I am considering some other movies...POSSIBLY John Wick? The Perfect Weapon IS the greatest film version of Kenpo, but we know its Kenpo so it can't be a "What art is this" video lol, I'd have to break it down in a different way. Though I can watch that film and pick out a TON of techniques from our curriculum, and I met Jeff Speakman a few times and I've seen him do those rapid fire moves in person and I'll tell you right now, it sounds exactly the same as it sounds in the movie LOL. I've even been hit by him and MAN you have no idea the power he can generate.
@@ArtofOneDojo I figured with The Pefect Weapon you could talk about not about wether it is Kenpo but about the differences between how the film portrays Kenpo and how it is in reality. Because in the film they said it was a Korean Martial Art and there was some metaphors about Tigers and Dragons representing mastery in the art. So I was thinking you might talk about the philosophical/spiritual side of the Art as they were portraying it. Also talking about the film just so others who might not have heard of it is a good thing, its a film that deserves talking about. And John Wick is definitely a movie that you would have lots to pick apart and get good video content out of. Anyways can't wait to see more of your awesome videos Mr Dan.
That's a very good point, because while the movie uses a LOT of American Kenpo techniques...it does not always apply them realistically. It's still choreographed to be an exciting martial arts film. I'll have to watch it again, I don't remember any mention of it being Korean, it's more Chinese in root I believe. The Tiger and the Dragon are a big part of it, so it could definitely be a good movie to analyze, thank you for the suggestion. I'll take a closer look at it :)
@@ArtofOneDojo No problem. And thank you for making such enjoyable videos and making Mrtial Arts exciting too.
I was a TKD student when the original Karate Kid movie came out, and even today the flamboyant kicks look TKD. I don’t know Tang So Doo. Even the outside crescent kick Johnny does on the high school punks in Cobra Kai is TKD. However, in Cobra Kai, the kid asks Johnny if that was TKD and Johnny corrects him saying Karate! Now, the Korean arts were adapted from Chinese and Okinawan so, they’re all entertwined.
Been in many ‘street’ fights, more than matches actually, I may have started off trying to use conventional martial arts but, didn’t take long to scratch that and end up wrestling/boxing.
Problem I saw was a strict martial art only worked when your opponent was using the same style as you, matched by skill level and weight class, in a controlled environment. No anger or people running full blast at you.
I do BJJ now
Well Taekwondo and Tang Soo Do originate from similar origins, but we refuse to merge into the larger absorption of Kwons that would make TaeKWONdo. We share almost the exact same kicks, commands, and other hyungs. The only difference is that we have a few other foreign(Non-Korean) influences that you can clearly see in the karate kid during training. Also the facts are on the wall, the choreographer was a black belt in Tang Soo Do, Johnny later went to go and study the art after the films because of this, and their training reminds me of a faint image of my own Dojang.
The kata looks like a mix of taekwondo movements or mixture of different poomse as we call but we have nothing exactly like the kata showed here . There are blocks like ulgul maki ( upper block) fakamaki , yopchagi, duliochagi ( swing kick) etc
I'm of the opinion, that Miyagi-Do karate is an off branch of Goju-ryu, with some stylistic differences. The crane kick is probably a a version of the jumping front kick, standing on the stump may well just be a method of perfecting a subtle balance, with the application being a lot more dynamic. After all, Daniel copied what he saw, it's possible he probably didn't fully understand it's full application.
Miyagi's karate was pure and emphasized preservation of history. Kreese on the other hand, strikes me as less concerned with tradition and more concerned with destroying his opponent.
Cobra Kai style, is probably a mishmash of techniques from various styles, whatever Kreese felt was the best way to deal damage. I got the impression that Cobra Kai was Kreese's own style, one he'd created based on what he'd learn't over the years.
Also, you'd have to look at the time period Kreese would've studied, if it's Tang Soo Do, was it an early, more raw form, a more loosely structured style that still had more noticeable Shoto kan elements.
I hear about how Ip Man's students seem to each do their Wing Chun differently. So it's like even from one generation to the next, things can change.
Most of the "Kata" looks to be strung together from some TKD forms and some TSD forms, I think I recognize a bad version of a Muay Thai kick that has found it's way in to American Mutt Karate through Mauy Thai based American Kick Boxing (American Kickboxing depending on the version can trace it's way back to a number of Arts but most go back to Karate), but from what I know the kick was just coming in to vogue in '88-89 and wasn't that wide spreed espechily with the Korean based Mutt Karate so it shouldn't have made it's way in to a Kata, a couple of the hand strikes are so badly preformed it's hard to tell, but one of them looks like it could be an abortion of a demonstration strike lifted from a Taijitsu form, but it's bean delivered from the wrong stance and so poorly it's hard to tell.
It could be he's not doing a Kata and just working on his transitions, some fighters just start doing techniques and try and see what technique flows from one to the next, others try to string a number of their preferred techniques together and try to workout transitions so they are not leaving themselves open in competition or actual fights, if you don't know that that's what they are doing it could be mistaken as a Kata.
The Cobra Kai series is on Netflix now! 8-D
I saw a lot of Capoeira-style kicks in both seasons of CK. Seems like Miyagi Do and Cobra Kai have roots in the styles you mentioned, but also mix in techniques from various other styles, really they are just kind of MMA with a strong emphasis on Karate and Tang Soo Do.
I think your assessment is spot on! My background is Kyokushin and Cobra Kai is definitely not Kyokushin. I also enjoy martial arts pop culture and think this is a fun endeavor.
The one picture in the Cobra Kai dojo where you see the blurry image of the man with the mustache, that looks like a picture of Hee Il Cho, 9th Dan in Taekwondo.
Wow thank you so much for finally including demura it really bothered me in the first video , but thank you very much for listening to us viewers
Tang Soo Do was also the martial art practiced by Jason Stillwell and his father in the movie, No Retreat No Surrender.
I believe the individual in the photos in the original Cobra Kai dojo is Grandmaster Jae Chul Shin. Pat Johnson's teacher was Chuck Norris, Norris' teacher in South Korea was Grandmaster Jae Chul Shin.
Quickly my $0.02 on this, as the video creator has mentioned, they're both movie styles adapted to communicate something in the films, but the choreographer had to base it on something, if it's Pat Johnson then we can expect Johnson to fall back on his own history.
Also if I understand correctly, the screenwriter studied Goju Ryu. But recently this was analysis was confirmed by William Zabka himself!
ruclips.net/video/nWASxKUS3yM/видео.html
@@ArtofOneDojo Aha! Confirmed that it was Tang Soo Do! Miyagi-do's "Okinawan soft style" = Goju, good stuff.
It is Hee Il Cho in the photo. I think he went by the anglicized name of Henry Cho, but that asian guy is definitely Korean who taught old school pre-Olympic style of Tae Kwon Do
Others have suggested that as well but I can't find a photo of him that matches the one above the frame. Can you link me a photo that matches that? I would love to have confirmation that that's him.
Great to see you healthy and still kicking sensei.
As for the style William Zabka says its Tang Soo Do. I been watching the interviews and he mentioned it in one also saying that Pat the OG choreographer was teaching Tang Soo Do.
I would like to bring your attention to season 2 sensei. Mainly because when you mentioned this is a Hollywood version there is some truth to it. Without any spoilers for season 2 (which I am sure you must have watched) many elements show that Cobra Kai has evolved to some sort of MMA striking Tang Soo Do. Tori uses clinch and throws round house. Thats just stating one of many elements regarding MMA style.
Even if you cant get the persons names in the picture in the Cobra Kai Dojo their GI, itself is very similar to Tang So Do.
Guys Kreese's army teacher confirmed it's Tang Soo Do
A long time ago when I first watch karate kid I almost thought cobra Kai did use Jeet Kune do, just based on the fact Johnny used Circular footwork
I commented on your first video on something that I noticed. I will mention it again since people are asking about the aggression of Cobra Kai. In the movies John Kreese and Terry Silver were both in the army special forces. They were most likely taught "gutter fighting " techniques. The founder William Fairbairn called his style gutter fighting because it is a dirty way to fight. It puts an emphasis on aggression. Strike first, strike hard, end the fight quickly and win at all cost. William Fairbairn taught the allies his method in WWII. It would have been taught to John Kreese and Terry Silver. It is still taught by the military because of it's short learning curve and its brutal effenceny and simplicity. Cobra Kai students are not taught gutter fighting techniques but are taught the aggression and the kill or be killed mentally that goes with it. Today it is known as Defendu.
Wow i'm a Jeet Kune Do practitioner from the IJKD lineage, and Miyagi did not by a long shot do JKD, however he did fight with anticipation and direct Karate strikes. AS for the some of the style used in the tournament for Cobra Kai, Capoeira, Taekwon Do, Karate and maybe some Muay Thai.
This man from the photo in the first part is most likely Kim Sun-Yung. He’s sensei to Kreese and Silver.
One pic looks like grandmaster Cho of Tae Kwon Do. It looks familiar from my tae Kwon do training. I trained with one of his personal students many years ago.
Just watched this and you raised some great points. I decided to take a look for those pictures you asked about and couldn't find them. But I did bumble on to a bit of food for thought for you. Tang soo do's founder mastered two older Korean arts before cultivating the original kwangs. (I hope I'm saying that right.) The styles were Subak and.... "Tankkyon". Please double check that spelling as I definitely think I spelled it wrong. Anyways, subak is all but dead now. Not much to go on practitioner wise. The other one though is still very much thriving. You might look into these art forms to see if you can match up any pics to your unidentified photos from the movies. I will say this. Cobra kia style is not shotokan. Shotokan plants their stances and focuses on strong power moves. Tang soo do or a hybrid of various Korean styles sounds much more plausible. Great videos man! Good info and food for thought.
You bring up some good points and I did recently do a video on those arts.
ruclips.net/video/NVMXXD6TWoQ/видео.html
Thank you for pointing out the difference between Shotokan and Cobra Kai, I still get people who claim it's Shotokan but I still think it's Tang Soo Do.
Thank you for the comment and the support!
@@ArtofOneDojo Cool I'll check it out when I get the chance. I agree that the art is definitely majority tang soo do, but feel that a few other Korean arts are mashed in there for looks. Tae kwon do is known for being very popular for use in movies and tv shows because of all the flashy kicks. It should be pointed out that one can often tell the type of environment a style developed in by its type of foot work and number and nature of its kicking techniques. Low kicks with firm hard stances like Shotokan, are indicative of the rough mountain terrains of japan. Its focus on power and straight forward approach to combat is telling of its popularity to be use in larger armies. This speaks all of the age of warring states when such arts were needed. Tae kwon do being kick heavy speaks of a much flatter environment where footing could be a bit lighter.