The saying clearly springs from a very oversimplified notion of a linear relationship between effort/resources and result. It's almost videogame-y with how childish that kind of thinking really is. The implication is that "result" is quantifiable numerically. And to me that smells of one thing and one thing only: profit. Good only means profit. The saying doesn't hold up even then, of course, as hollywood has been so kind to show us. But that's why I think sayings of that sort spread. The gamification of art, and the underlying implication that art's value is numerical. An objective scale, and understandable rules for how to climb said scale. It is a very attractive idea that emphasizes career and does away with the inherent nebulous quality of a creative craft.
Yeah, because it didn't originate in art, it's from production/business where people had to make quick judgements to make product and this is where it came from.
once you develop a taste for anything remotely abstract, experimental, "outsider", crude, or whatever, your concept of "good" immediately loses any requirement for technical ability or professional quality gear or anything like that. If you've once found a lo-fi recording of a rock to be beautiful or inspiring or whatever, and you need to justify that, then you must accept that it's all really just taste and anything can be good with no concrete requirements
@@arsenymun2028 That makes sense. I hadn't heard it in any context before myself. But it's exactly the kind of cold brute-force idea I associate with production. I doubt it's all that useful as a saying even there, I'll admit.
It's interesting hearing this take on this phrase. I've always heard it cited by creative professionals to bring unrealistic clients back to reality when they demand high-quality results, want them fast, and aren't willing to compensate people properly for it. Never heard it being cited to tell creatives what they are and aren't capable of in terms of their own time or budget. But I didn't go to film school and work in videogames, so maybe this is a film school thing. My guess is it reads differently between people who work for clients vs people who are self employed via patrons or something similar. If you work for clients, this is sort of an ironclad rule that good clients understand. In that way I feel like can be conventional wisdom that can protect creatives. I got to see a different perspective in the videol so I thought I'd leave my own experince as well.
There's a French director you may know called Quentin Dupieux who have decided that he could do his movies without a huge budget or a huge team. He's doing his own cinematography and his own editing by himself, and has been producing one or two movies per year for a few years now. Nearly all of them have been acclaimed by both audience and critics and he's working with the most hyped French actors of this generation. Check it out if you're unaware of him! As always, thank you for your positivity, Joel. You are a inspiration for all of us creative people and have been a far better role model since the start of your career than a lot of the greatest directors we hear of! Cheers from France.
@@zachhoy To start with, I'd recommend "Yannick" because it's more grounded and straight to the fact compared to his usual surrealist style. "Keep an eye out!" is my personal favorite because it's very absurd and just my kind of comedy, but not necessarily the first one people think about when talking about Dupieux. "Deerskin" has a really stupid and original concept starring Jean Dujardin (one the greatest French actors alive, known outside of France from the movie The Artist) that can be a good introduction to Dupieux' style. Then you can pick which ones had a plot that interest you, just knowing beforehand that Dupieux is a great defender of the idea that movies don't need to mean anything to be good.
I think the phrase is useful for managing expectations from purely financial relationships with other people. If you are hiring someone as a contractor on a project, it is not reasonable to expect top quality work, on your schedule, at a budget price. With a personal project or one made with friends and close collaborators, the cost aspect becomes a lot less important, because you can pay it in advance over time by honing your skills, amassing equipment, and building solid relationships. Also, as you alluded to, I think scope is a key part of this. A project with a well-managed scope can absolutely be fast, cheap, and good.
i feel this way especially with animation nowadays. i get so inspired and excited whenever i watch janky youtube animations and feel absolutely nothing with modern studio animations most of the time. thanks for another interesting and motivating talk joel!
Yeah the experimentation happening with internet filmmaking/animation is so much more vibrant than studio stuff which often settles for existing forms. Your animations are a fantastic example of exactly that!
I really needed this today. Whenever I write, I overthink and criticize every word I write. I’m my own worst enemy when it comes to creating. After working so much this week, I finally have some free time to write today, and I needed to be reminded not to overthink and allow myself to enjoy creating. Thank you, Joel.
I think this video perfectly illustrates the flaws of both film school and business school. From my background, I instantly want to compare this to business school-some people attend business school to learn how to start a business, but until you actually start one, you'll never fully grasp every aspect. You're taught these specific rules and guidelines, but without real-world experience, it’s easy to get lost in the sauce. I feel like it's the same here. Sure, there are unavoidable limitations in film production, as you mentioned, but people shouldn't be so rigid in their creative process. Some of the best moments in my adult life have come from taking creative risks that school and traditional thinking would've totally advised against. Joel, as always, keep it up, man. Love when you share these types of videos it always makes me reflect!
At my work (engineering business) we ask clients which of the 3 (budget, schedule or quality) is most important and which is least important. We still aim for all 3 but helpful to know where the clients priorities are. I think it makes sense in a corporate setting, but seems absurd to apply that to the arts. Love the message of creating within your means - i think we've seen that a lot in music with the artists who are recording in their bedroom.
I see the kind of films we make as an evolution of both filmmaking and theater. When I make a movie in a really short amount of time, it may seem short in comparison to the amount of time it typically takes to make a movie, but it can be long in comparison to the duration of a play being performed, which happens in real time (plus an intermission if there is one). And a lot of my essentially 2-person, one-room, shot in 5-10 hours movies are like filmed plays (Bed, Rachael Hunger, Feel and Stay, et al.). They could easily be performed as theater-but by shooting it, they'll be seen by way more people.
Definitely! It’s a phrase used in many industries and lines of work, definitely makes more sense in for hire jobs and stuff like home renovations. It’s when I heard it regularly applied to art that I grew frustrated.
Yeah, I work in design and this phrase is pretty much the golden rule. Never actually heard it applied to art or film before, where I don't think it works so well. But as a contractor in the design world, this thing is law.
It's always refreshing to hear you talk about this stuff. I've always agreed with you and I've thought about this stuff a lot too, but for some reason it's still helpful to hear you saying what I'm already thinking.
Your comment made about how you could make a film about your week in a week was really what I needed to hear right now, since lately I’ve felt as if I don’t have enough life experience to really make a worthwhile movie, despite the feelings I have on a day to day basis. So it’s nice to remember even a mundane feeling or experience is valid, and could make for a full film if I wanted
I've heard a similar phrase about programming, which is definitely a more measurable "good" discipline, even if there's a lot of taste to writing code. I have never thought it would apply to something like a film that has so much more life and creativity to it that are immeasurable
"There are no solutions. Only trade-offs." Thomas Sowell. I work in software project management and use this formula to manage expectations with the higher-ups. If you want good software(few issues) in a short time, you will need senior developers which is very expensive. If you want good software but have time, you can hire junior developers for cheap. If you want the software fast and cheap(junior developers), it won't be good.
Joel, you're one of my favorite folks on RUclips. I love your dedication to the craft and it brightens up my day each time I see a post from you. Keep it going and keep improving your craft no matter what!
An important message, beautifully articulated within the context of filmmaking. The world is fortunate to have encouraging people like this. The only thing I would add is that this message applies to all forms of art and self actualisation.
I too think of this triangle from time to time and always thought it was bs! lol thanks for inspiring me to make a 40min movie in a week and thanks again for watching it! I visited a friend in LA and we shot another 40min feature in 3 days.. wrapped it up in 4months in post!Fassbinder made 42 features before he passed away at age 39! Chantel Ackerman kinda warped my brain into redefining what a feature even really is. Im still trying to get my first feature out there in the world.. anyway… thanks again, Joel!
Amazing!!! So happy you participated. The more you explore film beyond the commercial, the more you realize the breadth of your potential. It’s really a beautiful thing! Wish you well on your creative journey❤️
recently, i got a working Super 8 camera and am currently waiting for the first bit of footage to come back from the lab-i got a couple friends together and we made a Fast, Cheap, and (we won't truly know till after the edit but i'm confident) Good movie, with less than 24 hours for shooting. it was way more fun than if we'd belabored over the whole thing to the point of exhaustion or agonized over a polished script until our fingers bled. i am excited to put more FastCheapGood films into the world. thanks for the inspiration Joel
Stuff like this is exactly why I am of the opinion that the internet is the best thing that has ever happened to the art world. And that goes for most artforms IMO. These outdated, limiting 'rules' of legacy media production just don't hold up and sure as hell don't encourage creativity and originality. I appreciate artists like you so much man
Absolutely. Your movie “We have to leave here together” we so great, so heart wrenching and hit me so hard I couldn’t finish it in one sitting and that was clearly cheap. Great work
I rewatched The Text the other day and I realized that, outside of one or two movie nights with friends, I’m pretty sure it’s the first movie I’ve watched twice within the same year since before my college days. I think the thing that made me feel the need to rewatch that specific movie was that it’s such an incredible showcase of the way that art can truly blossom under the harshest of limitations. As an artist whose inner critic really likes to create and ruminate on the reasons why I shouldn’t even start a project, I’ve always taken so much inspiration from your work and the way you constantly empower other artists to create from exactly where they are. I’ve brought up your twelve movies in 2024 quite a few times in conversations about creativity this year, and I always find myself highlighting The Text and Hello My Beautiful Creatures. That also usually leads me to talk about Forget About Everything for a While, which is one of my favorite movies of all time. I guess what I’m getting at is that I’m just constantly inspired by what you do and the way you go above and beyond to create earnest, human, beautiful art in new ways with new limitations with a smile on your face and a fire in your heart. You rock, Joel. I’m so excited to see what you’ve been working on and I hope you’re giving yourself some well-deserved rest during the in-between times in this project.
part of the fun of doing a project without planning is watching it become its own organism so far from what you originally conceived of it. What I planned in 2022 as a 40-page short story has evolved into a 300+ page graphic novel that I've been working on for 2 and a half years and I love it so much, I'm almost finished working on it and it's become the most important thing in my life. I wouldnt have known what I'm capable of if i stuck with shit like story circles and the hero's journey format and what's within my budget / timeframe / etc. I just gave up and used every drop of passion I have and it made everything feel so much better to do!!!
8:00 the use of "dubiously useful" will definitely make it into whatever i create next!!! Thanks for keeping me inspired, Joel! Eager to see the rest of your films this year :) Cheers from 🇨🇦
This saying is good for clients to keep in mind when paying for work for hire. It's a handy way to make sure employees and contractors get paid what they're worth, and given the time and resources they need. It feels misplaced when used to talk about independent art.
i think about this phrase when charging for editing work, but never for making my own personal work. it hadnt even crossed my mind when making my latest short film in my childhood home, that since we're making it fast and for $0 that it might not be good. i think itll be great youve inspired me tenfold to get out of my creative rut, thanks joel and good luck on the big editing days ahead
I don't want to throw shit at your work but analyzing and de-constructing movies thought video essays is a whole different field than film-making. There is a difference between watching a movie chewing it and spitting back the interesting thing about the movie on RUclips, and to come up with an idea to express your views at the world through film-making rather than film-analyzing
@@theshowershow I agree. Different process, different result, people engage with it differently. Though I think that the creation of anything, whether it be a film, video essay, painting, meme, doesn’t need to be perfected to put out into the world
I still haven't tried a movie yet but your tips did get me at least making stuff and putting it somewhere publicly visible. Which has been a great reminder that just getting your ideas out feels great and sometimes people love your fast and cheap ideas.
Thank you for your positive message Joel! I find it very inspiring and I try to spread it wherever I can - any time I meet someone who shares their "impossible dream" that they will "maybe do someday", I say, why not today, you can do it!! It's awesome to see how excited people get when they realize they are more capable than they think
Thank you Joel! I have too much to say to the point of being boring, so I have to (ironically here) "Pick One!" I went to music school. I am now involved in technical arts projects and am doing more than I have probably ever done before. Just two weeks ago, after studying some notebooks and slides from some great animators, I said to another arts friend, "You know, in music school, they really went wrong. They really should have had us just create a lot more. I'm talking like, no, you turn in 4 skeletons of songs this week using the techniques covered in the coursework that week. No, you write like, 50 pieces, good or bad, don't spend 12 hours mixing and mastering each one, this quarter. Not do a few laboriously scaled-up pieces that take up most of the quarter, then turn in one sprawling, myopic project at the end of the semester. How did they expect we were going to get better at things?" 😆 I think this "fast/cheap/good" angle is present in a lot of disciplines, and while it's a useful rule of thumb, it's also tied to a lot of things that are very bad. Thank you again for the talk!
I think when it comes to working professionally or freelancing, this chart is the golden rule to explain to clients/ set expectations; when you're working on your own projects, you can throw it in the trash ... or the recycling bin if you're socially conscious like that.
Your 12 movie project has inspired me! I am going to make a short movie within the next year. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences and knowledge!
Thanks Joel this is exactly what I've been trying to express when I work on stuff with other people. Folks want so bad to replicate the Hollywood formula of making movies on a much different scale, in completely different circumstances, but the joy of indie filmmaking imo has always been the opportunity to try methods big budget films reject. You've been essential in my filmmaking journey and wanted to say thank you, and best of luck with your last few movies this year.
Thanks Joel, I feel I’ve done FA this year creatively , even the last film I worked on was a producer role and that’s been on hiatus the full year. With jobs and job changes, depression coming and going and for a long time feeling despondent from myself, I realise the happiest time in my life was just hanging out with my acting friends and making goofy improv videos or just having fun. Thanks again for inspiring me to get back on the horse!
This resonates with me so much, since most of my projects are made in one to two shoot days lol I would love more time to work on my films, but life just gets in the way too often, so it's just a matter of trying to make my films as good as I possibly can within the limited timeframe! It forces me to think outside the box, and honestly it's just great experience in terms of problem solving and trying to make things work against the clock :)
Its better used for contractors than for individuals I find. If contractors or freelancers want to get paid fairly, than these are essential to keep in mind, as to avoid getting screwed over.
Fascinatingly this was taught to me in relation to Scenic design, for stage plays and the like - and that made it make immediate concrete sense, but I now realize it was probably just my Theatre department justifying never having a real budget.
You keep my spirits up Joel! I admire your dedication to inspiration as a vital ingredient in whatever you produce. This video was a real pep talk for me today
Hey Joel, genuine questions for ya: 1. Now that youve spent a year making movies over short form skits which do you prefer making more? 2. Lets say you scalded it back to making one big movie that took a whole year to make. Would you prefer that more? 3. Considering that your movies this year have gotten the same amount of views if not less than your average short skits, do you feel it was worth doing? Obviously its rewarding getting to make something of your own with your friends and have it seen by many people, but do you feel the effort vs reward was balanced enough to say it was worth doing? 4. Would you do something to this scale again or do you feel short form content, especially this day and age, is a better balance?
I know this saying in a non-creative/non-artistic context and in my experience it's true most of the time... Using it with art is questionable... Limitation can create creativity but as you stayed: who decides what art is good?
I’m a secret snobby connoisseur of cinema from the 1920’s through to today. I find your films among the best and most refreshing cinema of the last few years. In my own mind there is no differentiation between expensive official productions and what you produce except I usually trust I will get satisfaction from your product which is not my guaranteed experience of mainstream films that I go see. I get memorable scenes, quotable dialogue, emotion, genuine laughter, visual pleasures, nice framing, interesting casting, a cinematic eye, a sense of pacing and above all unpredictable entertainment from surprising places from your films long & short. I class you as one of my favourite contemporary filmmakers. Thank you and those around you. I’m over 60.
My friends and I have made around 6 videos and movies in the past six years or so now, and other than a few exceptions, we finished each movie in 1-3 shooting days with literally 0 budget, just what we had or picked up along the way. We always have a blas and are always proud of the product. And i think thats because we care so much and the spark has been there since day dot, and that means so much to me.
Damn every single time these videos seem to speak my exact thoughts that I've yet to be able to put in to words. Coming from a background in game development and music production, many of the same principles and ideas you talk about around film making and its industry are directly applicable to my industries as well. Thank you, Joel for being such a driving creative inspiration for me to want to get off my ass and create art
This myth was told to me in art school as well. What a bunch of gatekeeping nonsense. The things I enjoy most are often made cheaply & quickly. Who says they're not good?? Get real!
All movies are expensive and that’s because time is the most valuable resource we have. It’s irreplaceable and cannot have a monetary value on it, regardless if we are getting paid or not making films. While I’m sure most who make films are enjoying it and that’s the most important part of any good film. When you can see the passion from everyone involved means the time they used was worth every second regardless of monetary value. While my first two feature films were filmed fairly quickly, in terms of actual filming, the whole process took years because of free time. I don’t regret and I look fondly on my films (even the short ones) and I think they fit in all categories. Thanks for inspiring many to create the stuff they wanna make and keep up the great work!
This phrase applies to construction projects. Bridges, buildings, roads, etc - things where "good" means "using quality materials" and "designed/constructed up to code." It simply can't apply to art of any form for the reason you stated - the definition of "good" is completely different.
Good to see you still tackling this mentality! I teach a lot of lessons on small acts of art that utilize alternative means to art supplies/art supplies you can make from household items (like deodorant bottle graf. mops/markers), and cultivating spaces/support within the community for these things. I also find it insane that 'time' aspect still is debated as if Goya's Los Caprichos didn't like debunk that cheap, fast, and artistically potent art can't be created, wayyy back in the 18th century.
I have also heard this in my coding classes, though by "good" they typically mean well-thought out, as some designs are easier to read, maintain, or otherwise function better in a business/industrial setting (and could have a more linear relationship with development time or cost, because of their increasing complexity). I do not think that it should be applied to the arts, though, so I agree :3
Love you joel I can't wait to binge watch your movies this winter I live in Alaska and the winters can be dark so I've been saving them up and I can't wait to watch them all❤
In my film school we were told this but specifically through the lens that "good" simply meant polish, and not artistic value, which I think that perspective makes the statement more valid and ultimately can lead one to realizing themselves that polish isn't a prerequisite for good art.
yes, 100% agreed. I think Joel is a bit "fuck the mainstream" on this one. I personally don't find the phrase to be a diss towards people who do it fast and cheap. It's in fact very motivating.
What I do nowadays whenever someone claims art can have objective quality, I just try to roll with their idea and just take it further. If objective quality in art exists, that means that there is a quality that's independent of subjective quality. From that premise, it would be theoretically possible to have a piece of art that's objectively good, but literally no one likes. If that is possible, then what is the point of investigating objective quality?
Creative types try to remove all objectivity from art to mystify it, and for-profit materalist types try to reduce it to 1s and 0s and dollars and cents. So who determines if it's good? The audience (whoever that may be). The reality is that human beings share aesthetic and thematic sensibilities that are tethered to some sense of objectivity...otherwise film, and art in general would have no direction or form for which to emerge by definition. Two things can be true at once, there are objective qualities to things that resonate with the human soul, both in form and theme, a thing we all collectively share, and yet there is yet still a greater subjective component that is indeed more important - how it affects you. Sincerely, someone who claims there are objective qualities to film, and yet believes and feels its magic
@@brunodangelo1146 I think you're right about the importance part. I feel the thing that's really worth mentioning about the objectivity angle, and really the only reason it's worth bringing up, and likely why people continue to do so is that 1. Critique is valuable - not just because of cultural context, but because the entire point is to sharpen artists (many auteurs are also harsh critics) to improve their craft. And the 'ItS aLL sUbjEcTivE' crowd kind of shits on critics unjustifably with this line of thinking. And 2. There are actual boundaries for what constitutes art, we can all debate all day about what is and isn't in the complex cases, just as we can debate whether a landmass with only 1/3rd coverage of sand constitutes a desert. What we can't do is call a grain of sand a desert or a video of me shitting into a cup 'art'. Narrowing down art more and more as the profiteers do can reduce a thing to nothing but refusing to put any boundary or definition around it does exactly the same thing.
Thank you for this joel, I share this sentiment in a lot of my videos and I hope to spread the message that you can achieve your dreams through action. Small steps towards what you want are the only steps you need to take.
Hi Joel, love your work. I am currently trying to make the jump from a guy making weird 3D stuff in my basement to a guy making really weird 3D stuff for lots of money in movies or games. This was really inspiring to watch and to hear what you have been working on. I can't wait to see what you do. The media industries feel like they have been crumbling the entire time I have been on this journey but I'm going to keep going.
Hey Joel, always love these kind of down to earth talking videos from you! Please refrain from telling me "I love you", I do not need any parasocial relationships
I don't make films, I make video games, but despite that I feel like this whole speech still 100% applies. It applies to any creative/artistic endeavor really. The biggest barrier to making stuff is if you don't just go for it, try your best, and see what happens. Even if it's not exactly what you envisioned, it's still something completely unique that you created and can look back on happily.
Thank so much for this. I've been feeling isolated and alone in my feelings about the state of art. Thank you Thank you Thank you. I love myself and I love my art
Very well put! I'm glad you see a difference between criticism vs not liking how cheap, fast the movies are. When I watch movies all I ask from them is that they be themselves, all the way, pure expression, even if I don't like the movie if its personal and emotional I am staifised.
Al big studio budgets combined can't produce something as riveting and vital as the smallest micro expression on Gena Rowland's face in any Cassavetes movie. Keep spreading the good word of cheap quick and good movies Joel. I'll get to some of your films soon i promise.
As someone who has been listening to your thoughts and watching your content for some time now, I am 0% surprised by your philosophy here. I think you do a great job of practicing what you preach and proving your point through your art.
The quality of art is determined by social consensus. Popularity is the only practical definition for "good" that we have when talking about art since it's subjective.
i think it helps me in terms of "quality". I don't take it as an insult to think that I can't make something good within a short span of time. I think in the direction of "OK, I'm gonna make something for cheap real fast, it's not gonna be (synonyms for quality)". For me it's motivating to think that there is a certain quality I won't reach, and that helps me not think "oh this isn't well-edited". Just my 2 cents.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
The saying clearly springs from a very oversimplified notion of a linear relationship between effort/resources and result. It's almost videogame-y with how childish that kind of thinking really is. The implication is that "result" is quantifiable numerically. And to me that smells of one thing and one thing only: profit. Good only means profit. The saying doesn't hold up even then, of course, as hollywood has been so kind to show us. But that's why I think sayings of that sort spread. The gamification of art, and the underlying implication that art's value is numerical. An objective scale, and understandable rules for how to climb said scale. It is a very attractive idea that emphasizes career and does away with the inherent nebulous quality of a creative craft.
Beautifully and intelligently put!!
Yeah, because it didn't originate in art, it's from production/business where people had to make quick judgements to make product and this is where it came from.
once you develop a taste for anything remotely abstract, experimental, "outsider", crude, or whatever, your concept of "good" immediately loses any requirement for technical ability or professional quality gear or anything like that. If you've once found a lo-fi recording of a rock to be beautiful or inspiring or whatever, and you need to justify that, then you must accept that it's all really just taste and anything can be good with no concrete requirements
@@arsenymun2028 That makes sense. I hadn't heard it in any context before myself. But it's exactly the kind of cold brute-force idea I associate with production. I doubt it's all that useful as a saying even there, I'll admit.
It's interesting hearing this take on this phrase. I've always heard it cited by creative professionals to bring unrealistic clients back to reality when they demand high-quality results, want them fast, and aren't willing to compensate people properly for it. Never heard it being cited to tell creatives what they are and aren't capable of in terms of their own time or budget. But I didn't go to film school and work in videogames, so maybe this is a film school thing. My guess is it reads differently between people who work for clients vs people who are self employed via patrons or something similar. If you work for clients, this is sort of an ironclad rule that good clients understand. In that way I feel like can be conventional wisdom that can protect creatives. I got to see a different perspective in the videol so I thought I'd leave my own experince as well.
This video's awesome. I spent $0, watched it in 12 minutes and 23 seconds, and it was pretty good.
Fast, Cheap, Good? Sounds like my wife!!
HEYOO!!
Take my wife
👍 VERY NICE 👍
Heheh, pretty much in the same boat. Though I'd imagine many saying they "suffer" from slow and expensive >_>
"Thinking can be the thief of creating" is such a fantastic quote to just throw out there. Great video, Joel.
There's a French director you may know called Quentin Dupieux who have decided that he could do his movies without a huge budget or a huge team. He's doing his own cinematography and his own editing by himself, and has been producing one or two movies per year for a few years now. Nearly all of them have been acclaimed by both audience and critics and he's working with the most hyped French actors of this generation. Check it out if you're unaware of him!
As always, thank you for your positivity, Joel. You are a inspiration for all of us creative people and have been a far better role model since the start of your career than a lot of the greatest directors we hear of! Cheers from France.
Love Dupieux, one of the most creative souls in modern cinema
Any movies of Dupieux you'd recommend to get started with?
@@zachhoy To start with, I'd recommend "Yannick" because it's more grounded and straight to the fact compared to his usual surrealist style. "Keep an eye out!" is my personal favorite because it's very absurd and just my kind of comedy, but not necessarily the first one people think about when talking about Dupieux. "Deerskin" has a really stupid and original concept starring Jean Dujardin (one the greatest French actors alive, known outside of France from the movie The Artist) that can be a good introduction to Dupieux' style. Then you can pick which ones had a plot that interest you, just knowing beforehand that Dupieux is a great defender of the idea that movies don't need to mean anything to be good.
I’ve been familiar since Rubber, but never sat down to watch one. Definitely will! His latest work has caught my eye! Thanks for the recommendation.
@@zachhoy I recommend checking out Mandibles, it's one of the funniest movies I've ever seen
I think the phrase is useful for managing expectations from purely financial relationships with other people. If you are hiring someone as a contractor on a project, it is not reasonable to expect top quality work, on your schedule, at a budget price. With a personal project or one made with friends and close collaborators, the cost aspect becomes a lot less important, because you can pay it in advance over time by honing your skills, amassing equipment, and building solid relationships. Also, as you alluded to, I think scope is a key part of this. A project with a well-managed scope can absolutely be fast, cheap, and good.
i feel this way especially with animation nowadays. i get so inspired and excited whenever i watch janky youtube animations and feel absolutely nothing with modern studio animations most of the time. thanks for another interesting and motivating talk joel!
Yeah the experimentation happening with internet filmmaking/animation is so much more vibrant than studio stuff which often settles for existing forms. Your animations are a fantastic example of exactly that!
I really needed this today. Whenever I write, I overthink and criticize every word I write. I’m my own worst enemy when it comes to creating. After working so much this week, I finally have some free time to write today, and I needed to be reminded not to overthink and allow myself to enjoy creating. Thank you, Joel.
Happy to reach ya on a day with time to create! Enjoy writing, my friend!
I think this video perfectly illustrates the flaws of both film school and business school. From my background, I instantly want to compare this to business school-some people attend business school to learn how to start a business, but until you actually start one, you'll never fully grasp every aspect. You're taught these specific rules and guidelines, but without real-world experience, it’s easy to get lost in the sauce. I feel like it's the same here. Sure, there are unavoidable limitations in film production, as you mentioned, but people shouldn't be so rigid in their creative process. Some of the best moments in my adult life have come from taking creative risks that school and traditional thinking would've totally advised against.
Joel, as always, keep it up, man. Love when you share these types of videos it always makes me reflect!
At my work (engineering business) we ask clients which of the 3 (budget, schedule or quality) is most important and which is least important. We still aim for all 3 but helpful to know where the clients priorities are. I think it makes sense in a corporate setting, but seems absurd to apply that to the arts. Love the message of creating within your means - i think we've seen that a lot in music with the artists who are recording in their bedroom.
always found that saying baffling. i appreciate ur words, as always. thanks for making movies joel
I see the kind of films we make as an evolution of both filmmaking and theater. When I make a movie in a really short amount of time, it may seem short in comparison to the amount of time it typically takes to make a movie, but it can be long in comparison to the duration of a play being performed, which happens in real time (plus an intermission if there is one). And a lot of my essentially 2-person, one-room, shot in 5-10 hours movies are like filmed plays (Bed, Rachael Hunger, Feel and Stay, et al.). They could easily be performed as theater-but by shooting it, they'll be seen by way more people.
i find this is useful when working for someone else, because you don't always have that passion burning for the project
Definitely! It’s a phrase used in many industries and lines of work, definitely makes more sense in for hire jobs and stuff like home renovations. It’s when I heard it regularly applied to art that I grew frustrated.
Yeah, I work in design and this phrase is pretty much the golden rule. Never actually heard it applied to art or film before, where I don't think it works so well. But as a contractor in the design world, this thing is law.
It's always refreshing to hear you talk about this stuff. I've always agreed with you and I've thought about this stuff a lot too, but for some reason it's still helpful to hear you saying what I'm already thinking.
Hey, Joel! Really love your stuff. Just finished Hiccups and am finally caught up with your work (to my knowledge) can't wait to see what's next.
Thanks so much for watching all my work!! Good stuff coming!
5:21 - Joel has absolutely planted his seed in many people
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Your comment made about how you could make a film about your week in a week was really what I needed to hear right now, since lately I’ve felt as if I don’t have enough life experience to really make a worthwhile movie, despite the feelings I have on a day to day basis. So it’s nice to remember even a mundane feeling or experience is valid, and could make for a full film if I wanted
I've heard a similar phrase about programming, which is definitely a more measurable "good" discipline, even if there's a lot of taste to writing code. I have never thought it would apply to something like a film that has so much more life and creativity to it that are immeasurable
"There are no solutions. Only trade-offs." Thomas Sowell. I work in software project management and use this formula to manage expectations with the higher-ups. If you want good software(few issues) in a short time, you will need senior developers which is very expensive. If you want good software but have time, you can hire junior developers for cheap. If you want the software fast and cheap(junior developers), it won't be good.
Joel, you're one of my favorite folks on RUclips. I love your dedication to the craft and it brightens up my day each time I see a post from you. Keep it going and keep improving your craft no matter what!
An important message, beautifully articulated within the context of filmmaking. The world is fortunate to have encouraging people like this. The only thing I would add is that this message applies to all forms of art and self actualisation.
I too think of this triangle from time to time and always thought it was bs! lol thanks for inspiring me to make a 40min movie in a week and thanks again for watching it! I visited a friend in LA and we shot another 40min feature in 3 days.. wrapped it up in 4months in post!Fassbinder made 42 features before he passed away at age 39! Chantel Ackerman kinda warped my brain into redefining what a feature even really is. Im still trying to get my first feature out there in the world.. anyway… thanks again, Joel!
Amazing!!! So happy you participated. The more you explore film beyond the commercial, the more you realize the breadth of your potential. It’s really a beautiful thing! Wish you well on your creative journey❤️
Whatever you just said did in fact land, thank you for these videos were you just talk about your process and philosophy, very inspiring!
recently, i got a working Super 8 camera and am currently waiting for the first bit of footage to come back from the lab-i got a couple friends together and we made a Fast, Cheap, and (we won't truly know till after the edit but i'm confident) Good movie, with less than 24 hours for shooting. it was way more fun than if we'd belabored over the whole thing to the point of exhaustion or agonized over a polished script until our fingers bled. i am excited to put more FastCheapGood films into the world. thanks for the inspiration Joel
This makes me happy, I hope for an update!
Super fun!! Hope the footage comes back beautiful!
0:53 i do… i decide 😈
no, actually it is I who decides.
Got any good schtick lately?
Stuff like this is exactly why I am of the opinion that the internet is the best thing that has ever happened to the art world. And that goes for most artforms IMO. These outdated, limiting 'rules' of legacy media production just don't hold up and sure as hell don't encourage creativity and originality. I appreciate artists like you so much man
Absolutely. Your movie “We have to leave here together” we so great, so heart wrenching and hit me so hard I couldn’t finish it in one sitting and that was clearly cheap. Great work
I rewatched The Text the other day and I realized that, outside of one or two movie nights with friends, I’m pretty sure it’s the first movie I’ve watched twice within the same year since before my college days. I think the thing that made me feel the need to rewatch that specific movie was that it’s such an incredible showcase of the way that art can truly blossom under the harshest of limitations.
As an artist whose inner critic really likes to create and ruminate on the reasons why I shouldn’t even start a project, I’ve always taken so much inspiration from your work and the way you constantly empower other artists to create from exactly where they are. I’ve brought up your twelve movies in 2024 quite a few times in conversations about creativity this year, and I always find myself highlighting The Text and Hello My Beautiful Creatures. That also usually leads me to talk about Forget About Everything for a While, which is one of my favorite movies of all time.
I guess what I’m getting at is that I’m just constantly inspired by what you do and the way you go above and beyond to create earnest, human, beautiful art in new ways with new limitations with a smile on your face and a fire in your heart. You rock, Joel. I’m so excited to see what you’ve been working on and I hope you’re giving yourself some well-deserved rest during the in-between times in this project.
part of the fun of doing a project without planning is watching it become its own organism so far from what you originally conceived of it. What I planned in 2022 as a 40-page short story has evolved into a 300+ page graphic novel that I've been working on for 2 and a half years and I love it so much, I'm almost finished working on it and it's become the most important thing in my life. I wouldnt have known what I'm capable of if i stuck with shit like story circles and the hero's journey format and what's within my budget / timeframe / etc. I just gave up and used every drop of passion I have and it made everything feel so much better to do!!!
8:00 the use of "dubiously useful" will definitely make it into whatever i create next!!! Thanks for keeping me inspired, Joel! Eager to see the rest of your films this year :)
Cheers from 🇨🇦
Joel not only makes amazing movies for us to watch for free, but also gives some of the most solid advice in the most inspiring way.
Thank you for taking the time to say this!
sincerely,
someone who's always working
Thank you Joel. Also I'm stoked about your project! Very inspiring. I believe in you!
Hello My Beautiful Creatures cured my eczema and added three inches to my vertical leap. Thank you, Joel
It’s the least I could do!
@@joeltalksaboutmovies wow hi! Seriously though you're an inspiration. If you ever do any physical premieres in NYC I'll be there. Love your work
9:09 "But even then, thinking can be the thief of just creating. I think we talk ourselves and think ourselves in circles sometimes."
Beautiful stupidity is such a good phrase.
And I kinda feel like the cat in that poster made that expression bc of a beautifully stupid expression.
As a filmmaker with no free time this absolutely resonates.
This saying is good for clients to keep in mind when paying for work for hire. It's a handy way to make sure employees and contractors get paid what they're worth, and given the time and resources they need. It feels misplaced when used to talk about independent art.
i think about this phrase when charging for editing work, but never for making my own personal work. it hadnt even crossed my mind when making my latest short film in my childhood home, that since we're making it fast and for $0 that it might not be good. i think itll be great
youve inspired me tenfold to get out of my creative rut, thanks joel and good luck on the big editing days ahead
I’ve always found that saying odd because it encourages only creating art that has been laboured over for much longer than necessary. Great video!
I don't want to throw shit at your work but analyzing and de-constructing movies thought video essays is a whole different field than film-making.
There is a difference between watching a movie chewing it and spitting back the interesting thing about the movie on RUclips, and to come up with an idea to express your views at the world through film-making rather than film-analyzing
@@theshowershow I agree. Different process, different result, people engage with it differently. Though I think that the creation of anything, whether it be a film, video essay, painting, meme, doesn’t need to be perfected to put out into the world
I still haven't tried a movie yet but your tips did get me at least making stuff and putting it somewhere publicly visible. Which has been a great reminder that just getting your ideas out feels great and sometimes people love your fast and cheap ideas.
i started making movies because of you, and i can happily say that im inspired whenever i see you post. healing through making movies. love you joel.
clearly there needs to a a secondary axis in the model that factors in joy and whimsy
Thank you for your positive message Joel! I find it very inspiring and I try to spread it wherever I can - any time I meet someone who shares their "impossible dream" that they will "maybe do someday", I say, why not today, you can do it!! It's awesome to see how excited people get when they realize they are more capable than they think
Joel we can tell youre swimmin in it, you got new wall art and have a nice plant. You're not foolin' anyone Haver-McDuck
real af
Thank you Joel! I have too much to say to the point of being boring, so I have to (ironically here) "Pick One!" I went to music school. I am now involved in technical arts projects and am doing more than I have probably ever done before. Just two weeks ago, after studying some notebooks and slides from some great animators, I said to another arts friend, "You know, in music school, they really went wrong. They really should have had us just create a lot more. I'm talking like, no, you turn in 4 skeletons of songs this week using the techniques covered in the coursework that week. No, you write like, 50 pieces, good or bad, don't spend 12 hours mixing and mastering each one, this quarter. Not do a few laboriously scaled-up pieces that take up most of the quarter, then turn in one sprawling, myopic project at the end of the semester. How did they expect we were going to get better at things?" 😆 I think this "fast/cheap/good" angle is present in a lot of disciplines, and while it's a useful rule of thumb, it's also tied to a lot of things that are very bad. Thank you again for the talk!
I totally agree.
These days I get stuck on creation all the time because I start worrying over details before I even have a rough outline.
You have a very unique perspective
I think when it comes to working professionally or freelancing, this chart is the golden rule to explain to clients/ set expectations; when you're working on your own projects, you can throw it in the trash ... or the recycling bin if you're socially conscious like that.
Your 12 movie project has inspired me! I am going to make a short movie within the next year. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences and knowledge!
Thanks Joel this is exactly what I've been trying to express when I work on stuff with other people. Folks want so bad to replicate the Hollywood formula of making movies on a much different scale, in completely different circumstances, but the joy of indie filmmaking imo has always been the opportunity to try methods big budget films reject. You've been essential in my filmmaking journey and wanted to say thank you, and best of luck with your last few movies this year.
Thanks Joel, I feel I’ve done FA this year creatively , even the last film I worked on was a producer role and that’s been on hiatus the full year. With jobs and job changes, depression coming and going and for a long time feeling despondent from myself, I realise the happiest time in my life was just hanging out with my acting friends and making goofy improv videos or just having fun.
Thanks again for inspiring me to get back on the horse!
This resonates with me so much, since most of my projects are made in one to two shoot days lol
I would love more time to work on my films, but life just gets in the way too often, so it's just a matter of trying to make my films as good as I possibly can within the limited timeframe! It forces me to think outside the box, and honestly it's just great experience in terms of problem solving and trying to make things work against the clock :)
Its better used for contractors than for individuals I find. If contractors or freelancers want to get paid fairly, than these are essential to keep in mind, as to avoid getting screwed over.
Love that the first grand opus that sprung to your mind was Synecdoche, New York.
Fascinatingly this was taught to me in relation to Scenic design, for stage plays and the like - and that made it make immediate concrete sense, but I now realize it was probably just my Theatre department justifying never having a real budget.
I should also clarify this was with "Good" defined as "Well-built" - rather than related to its artistic quality, as your video is.
You keep my spirits up Joel! I admire your dedication to inspiration as a vital ingredient in whatever you produce. This video was a real pep talk for me today
Hey Joel, genuine questions for ya:
1. Now that youve spent a year making movies over short form skits which do you prefer making more?
2. Lets say you scalded it back to making one big movie that took a whole year to make. Would you prefer that more?
3. Considering that your movies this year have gotten the same amount of views if not less than your average short skits, do you feel it was worth doing? Obviously its rewarding getting to make something of your own with your friends and have it seen by many people, but do you feel the effort vs reward was balanced enough to say it was worth doing?
4. Would you do something to this scale again or do you feel short form content, especially this day and age, is a better balance?
I know this saying in a non-creative/non-artistic context and in my experience it's true most of the time... Using it with art is questionable... Limitation can create creativity but as you stayed: who decides what art is good?
I gotcha. It really works too!.
You are an inspiration ❤
I’m a secret snobby connoisseur of cinema from the 1920’s through to today. I find your films among the best and most refreshing cinema of the last few years.
In my own mind there is no differentiation between expensive official productions and what you produce except I usually trust I will get satisfaction from your product which is not my guaranteed experience of mainstream films that I go see.
I get memorable scenes, quotable dialogue, emotion, genuine laughter, visual pleasures, nice framing, interesting casting, a cinematic eye, a sense of pacing and above all unpredictable entertainment from surprising places from your films long & short. I class you as one of my favourite contemporary filmmakers. Thank you and those around you.
I’m over 60.
My friends and I have made around 6 videos and movies in the past six years or so now, and other than a few exceptions, we finished each movie in 1-3 shooting days with literally 0 budget, just what we had or picked up along the way. We always have a blas and are always proud of the product. And i think thats because we care so much and the spark has been there since day dot, and that means so much to me.
Listening to Joel talk about movies is just as interesting and valuable as watching a Joel movie, and that's saying something
Damn every single time these videos seem to speak my exact thoughts that I've yet to be able to put in to words. Coming from a background in game development and music production, many of the same principles and ideas you talk about around film making and its industry are directly applicable to my industries as well.
Thank you, Joel for being such a driving creative inspiration for me to want to get off my ass and create art
I love movies and I love Joels movies!!!
I agree, and I think this is apt commentary not just for making movies, but for many types of creative projects
I love you Joel you are the reason I have kept my creativity alive.
This myth was told to me in art school as well. What a bunch of gatekeeping nonsense. The things I enjoy most are often made cheaply & quickly. Who says they're not good?? Get real!
looking splendid in this video joel
this changes my perspective. I guess I kinda always took that saying at face value.
All movies are expensive and that’s because time is the most valuable resource we have. It’s irreplaceable and cannot have a monetary value on it, regardless if we are getting paid or not making films. While I’m sure most who make films are enjoying it and that’s the most important part of any good film. When you can see the passion from everyone involved means the time they used was worth every second regardless of monetary value.
While my first two feature films were filmed fairly quickly, in terms of actual filming, the whole process took years because of free time. I don’t regret and I look fondly on my films (even the short ones) and I think they fit in all categories.
Thanks for inspiring many to create the stuff they wanna make and keep up the great work!
This phrase applies to construction projects. Bridges, buildings, roads, etc - things where "good" means "using quality materials" and "designed/constructed up to code." It simply can't apply to art of any form for the reason you stated - the definition of "good" is completely different.
Good to see you still tackling this mentality! I teach a lot of lessons on small acts of art that utilize alternative means to art supplies/art supplies you can make from household items (like deodorant bottle graf. mops/markers), and cultivating spaces/support within the community for these things. I also find it insane that 'time' aspect still is debated as if Goya's Los Caprichos didn't like debunk that cheap, fast, and artistically potent art can't be created, wayyy back in the 18th century.
thanks joel, this was good to hear :)
I have also heard this in my coding classes, though by "good" they typically mean well-thought out, as some designs are easier to read, maintain, or otherwise function better in a business/industrial setting (and could have a more linear relationship with development time or cost, because of their increasing complexity). I do not think that it should be applied to the arts, though, so I agree :3
im gonna pick 6!!! (im going to double up on each)
"Thinking can be the thief of creating"
THIS IS IMPORTANT!
Love you joel I can't wait to binge watch your movies this winter I live in Alaska and the winters can be dark so I've been saving them up and I can't wait to watch them all❤
In my film school we were told this but specifically through the lens that "good" simply meant polish, and not artistic value, which I think that perspective makes the statement more valid and ultimately can lead one to realizing themselves that polish isn't a prerequisite for good art.
yes, 100% agreed. I think Joel is a bit "fuck the mainstream" on this one. I personally don't find the phrase to be a diss towards people who do it fast and cheap. It's in fact very motivating.
You're the best, Joel. Keep it up! Keep it up, man. Keep. It. Up.
I needed to hear this. Thank you!
People that claim objectivity in the value of art always seemed afflicted with some blindness to me.
They are clearly missing the whole point of it.
agree... the statement "objectively good art" is ironic poetry in its own right
What I do nowadays whenever someone claims art can have objective quality, I just try to roll with their idea and just take it further.
If objective quality in art exists, that means that there is a quality that's independent of subjective quality. From that premise, it would be theoretically possible to have a piece of art that's objectively good, but literally no one likes.
If that is possible, then what is the point of investigating objective quality?
Creative types try to remove all objectivity from art to mystify it, and for-profit materalist types try to reduce it to 1s and 0s and dollars and cents. So who determines if it's good? The audience (whoever that may be).
The reality is that human beings share aesthetic and thematic sensibilities that are tethered to some sense of objectivity...otherwise film, and art in general would have no direction or form for which to emerge by definition.
Two things can be true at once, there are objective qualities to things that resonate with the human soul, both in form and theme, a thing we all collectively share, and yet there is yet still a greater subjective component that is indeed more important - how it affects you.
Sincerely,
someone who claims there are objective qualities to film, and yet believes and feels its magic
@@zachhopkins6162 I'm not sure, dude. There might be objective things you can say about a piece of art, but that is not where the value resides.
@@brunodangelo1146 I think you're right about the importance part. I feel the thing that's really worth mentioning about the objectivity angle, and really the only reason it's worth bringing up, and likely why people continue to do so is that 1. Critique is valuable - not just because of cultural context, but because the entire point is to sharpen artists (many auteurs are also harsh critics) to improve their craft. And the 'ItS aLL sUbjEcTivE' crowd kind of shits on critics unjustifably with this line of thinking.
And 2. There are actual boundaries for what constitutes art, we can all debate all day about what is and isn't in the complex cases, just as we can debate whether a landmass with only 1/3rd coverage of sand constitutes a desert. What we can't do is call a grain of sand a desert or a video of me shitting into a cup 'art'. Narrowing down art more and more as the profiteers do can reduce a thing to nothing but refusing to put any boundary or definition around it does exactly the same thing.
joel, i love you
go think on the bleachers Jerry!! we're here to play some fuckin Ball
Thank you for this joel, I share this sentiment in a lot of my videos and I hope to spread the message that you can achieve your dreams through action. Small steps towards what you want are the only steps you need to take.
Hi Joel, love your work. I am currently trying to make the jump from a guy making weird 3D stuff in my basement to a guy making really weird 3D stuff for lots of money in movies or games. This was really inspiring to watch and to hear what you have been working on. I can't wait to see what you do. The media industries feel like they have been crumbling the entire time I have been on this journey but I'm going to keep going.
This video is fast, cheap, and good, Joel! Love this!
Hey Joel, always love these kind of down to earth talking videos from you!
Please refrain from telling me "I love you", I do not need any parasocial relationships
I don't make films, I make video games, but despite that I feel like this whole speech still 100% applies. It applies to any creative/artistic endeavor really. The biggest barrier to making stuff is if you don't just go for it, try your best, and see what happens. Even if it's not exactly what you envisioned, it's still something completely unique that you created and can look back on happily.
Always motivating me to finally start filming a movie. Thanks Joel
Thank so much for this. I've been feeling isolated and alone in my feelings about the state of art. Thank you Thank you Thank you. I love myself and I love my art
Very well put! I'm glad you see a difference between criticism vs not liking how cheap, fast the movies are. When I watch movies all I ask from them is that they be themselves, all the way, pure expression, even if I don't like the movie if its personal and emotional I am staifised.
Al big studio budgets combined can't produce something as riveting and vital as the smallest micro expression on Gena Rowland's face in any Cassavetes movie. Keep spreading the good word of cheap quick and good movies Joel. I'll get to some of your films soon i promise.
This was awesome
As someone who has been listening to your thoughts and watching your content for some time now, I am 0% surprised by your philosophy here. I think you do a great job of practicing what you preach and proving your point through your art.
The quality of art is determined by social consensus. Popularity is the only practical definition for "good" that we have when talking about art since it's subjective.
23 seconds is insane!! hope youre doing well joel!!
Extra rasp and heart and truth in this one. Love you, miss you, inspired by you. So much.
i think it helps me in terms of "quality". I don't take it as an insult to think that I can't make something good within a short span of time. I think in the direction of "OK, I'm gonna make something for cheap real fast, it's not gonna be (synonyms for quality)". For me it's motivating to think that there is a certain quality I won't reach, and that helps me not think "oh this isn't well-edited". Just my 2 cents.