I found through research that this Paccar 12-speed is the original design and the Eaton Fuller Endurant transmission is a rebranded version for the Cummins platform. Possibly there's a shifting algorithm difference. It's the best transmission I've driven so far and I've done manual and automated-manual versions.
Hardly the case....Eaton has been building transmissions forever. The PACCAR version was a collaboration with Eaton but quite positive Eaton was the leader in that....PACCAR cannot the engines to stay running without major issues. But most importantly, Eaton bee. The driveline market for forever.....PACCAR has maybe 8 years or so in that marketplace (engine and driveline conponents).
There's a Vocational Eaton Fuller Ultra shift that quite a few have been purchasing. Maybe Paccar needs to work with Eaton on a Vocational transmission similar to it under the Paccar brand.
I drive one in pa everyday I hate it with a passion almost got me into a accident a few times and it wont let you manually shift freely without constantly locking it into gear. It also shifts like shit. I'd rather it shift like the mack dump truck I used to drive. I loved that automatic it shifts like a car
Your probably gonna have more issues in a dump truck vs a road tractor. A road tractor for the most past is constantly moving at a consistent speed for a longer period of time. Where a dump truck may sit around at rock quarries, asphalt plants and job sites. Most of the time there just idling and that not good for the emissions system. I drive a dump truck and this is my 3rd year in it and it has almost 150k and I haven't had any issues with the emissions. Whenever I'm sitting I'll idle at 1,000-1,100 rpms or will shut the truck off. The dvd that comes with new trucks with the MX 13 engines suggests idling at that rpm instead of the 600 or 700 that the trucks standard idle setting is.
@@jrbcjim It'll be cool if they could somehow come out with a Vocational version of this transmission being that Eaton already has a Vocational version of the Ultra Shift transmission. Not sure what all is different between this transmission and the Ultra Shift. Vocational market has been hot as of late.
Your right. But the Allison in my opinion needs more gears. My boss has the 6 speeds in the newer trucks he's purchased the past few years and they seem to need another gear or 2. An 8 speed automatic would be great as far as the Vocational market goes.
It is a good trans and I like it a lot in my kenworth. The thing I do not like is when you're on cruise control, it doesn't interrupt when suddenly you turn engine brake on, it keeps on basically unless you hit brakes or turn CC off. Also if you are engine braking, taillights come on as if you are pressing brakes. That right there makes many mad when you go down hill with engine breaks on for minutes. It makes you look stupid.
Good vid, Jim. Could you please explain "overall gear ratio"? You gave us gear ratios for 1st, and 12th, but how do you define/calculate overall gear ratio. Thanks much!
Frank, to calculate the overall ratio, you divide the ratio of first gear (14.43) by the final drive ratio (12th gear, 0.77). The answer you should get is 18.74. That's a slightly different number than Paccar advertises, but I think the difference is in their rounding -- they probably use three decimal points rather than two.
In my opinion, it's at least as good as an I-Shift in the performance category. On the technical side, it has pluses and minuses. It's the lightest automated tranny on the market right now at 657 pounds, and it comes with a 5-year, 750,000 mile warranty. On the minus side, the I-Shift has higher ratings and a few more configurations, such as the creeper gear. Give this transmission a few years to establish its place in the market and I think those options will start to appear as well.
That's probably because its a 12-speed gearbox, like other European transmissions, not the 10-, 13- and 18-speed models North Americans are familiar with.
Good question Colin. When I first got wind of the new transmission, I assumed it would be a ZF box because of Paccar's association with DAF. I started doing research on the product and had even come to a conclusion as to which model it would likely be. ZF transmissions never got a good market hold in North America, but there was a joint venture between ZF and Meritor about 20 years ago -- before the I-Shift and DT12 -- that produced two transmission called the SureShift and ZF FreedomLine. Both were competent automated manuals, but they were involved in legal proceedings with Eaton, who, it was alleged, was offering steep rebates to its customers to keep its share of that business. The two companies eventually settled the anti-trust suit out of court, but the FreedomLine was never able to recover sufficient marketshare to keep in viable.
The enduranceTrans 12 speed is a junk actually Not the mechanical it’s all the software , up shifting Uphill 6 & 7 gears blinks 4-6 then engaged & downshifting uphill from 12 in to 11,10 & 9 gears takes 4-6 blinks before engages again , with 80,000 pounds 4-8 grades hill you’re losing to speed and momentum , the engine break thanks 3 blinks about 2 seconds downshifting in lower gear every time on downhill 4-6 Grade in till it’s thinking to downshift it’s too late needs to go back in a higher gear , this software is a junk I don’t recommend to any to buy this junk Transmission, does a problem they’re testing a brand new and bobtail try after 100,000 miles And full loaded truck , and every time they doing a software update they charging you $$$$ but there is no difference even worse it gets , that’s my advice stay away away but you’re choosing not me I already did and I regret I should get Allison CT10
I'd love to see the wheel holders with a 6 X 4 Spicer transmission with 2 boxes and 2 sticks....poor bitches be lost after the first gear change...lmao!!
I owed 10 automatic transmission Eaton fuller and it’s garbage on hills not managed well when heavy loaded trailer, I regret buying this automatic transmission,
I have this same exact truck with the same engine and trans. I do NOT like it. I was doing much better in my old 10 speed than this trans does by itself. I noticed much more driver interaction with this truck because i'm always trying to correct what it thinks I want to do. And half the time it ignores my input. I can elaborate but this comment will be 4 paragraphs long if I do.
The Wussification of Trucking... Automatic Transmissions. It was bound to happen once the wife beater oversized tank top, oversized shorts and flip flops became the Standard for truck driving.
No they're not made by Eaton, I thought Ishift is made by Eaton but it's not, it's made by one of Volvo's companies, but Ishift is the first 12 speed trans, then Freightliner copied it and now Paccar too
No they're not made by Eaton, I thought Ishift is made by Eaton but it's not, it's made by one of Volvo's companies, but Ishift is the first 12 speed trans, then Freightliner copied it and now Paccar too
Paccar engines suck! 2 years 250 mile warranty, yet the payments last 6 years average, that's a recipe for failure! I will nvr own anything wit the name paccar on it, I druther buy a maxfarce!
Exactly almost got into a accident twice because it wanted to think 3 seconds before it shifts. It went into neutral on a hill and almost rolled back on a car. It shifts like a 90 year old man
The software it’s a junk takes too much time to shit down in engine brake takes 3 Blinks before engages and up hill 4-6 blinks between 2-4 seconds Dan starts to engage again , 80,000 LB 6-8% uphill you feel like the trucks going backwards :( that is junk :( they update the software five times and every time gets worse plus they charging you for every updates :( my advice spend more money and get the Allison CT10 trans ,
I found through research that this Paccar 12-speed is the original design and the Eaton Fuller Endurant transmission is a rebranded version for the Cummins platform. Possibly there's a shifting algorithm difference. It's the best transmission I've driven so far and I've done manual and automated-manual versions.
Hardly the case....Eaton has been building transmissions forever. The PACCAR version was a collaboration with Eaton but quite positive Eaton was the leader in that....PACCAR cannot the engines to stay running without major issues. But most importantly, Eaton bee. The driveline market for forever.....PACCAR has maybe 8 years or so in that marketplace (engine and driveline conponents).
Smoothest and quickest ride I’ve been in.
2:29 nice cutting off the 4 wheeler lol
You go when you can or wait forever.
It's about time! The Eaton Ultrashifts days are limited now.
Hope its better than Eaton's automatic transmission. Eaton's automatic transmission is junk
Eaton designed and will build this trany but the calibrations and features are proprietary to Kenworth and Paccar.
There's a Vocational Eaton Fuller Ultra shift that quite a few have been purchasing. Maybe Paccar needs to work with Eaton on a Vocational transmission similar to it under the Paccar brand.
You need to take the truck in WV, PA - MD on I-79 and I-68 with 80.000gw Back-and-forth then it’s going how the transmission reacts lol .
I did and it works great
I drive one in pa everyday I hate it with a passion almost got me into a accident a few times and it wont let you manually shift freely without constantly locking it into gear. It also shifts like shit. I'd rather it shift like the mack dump truck I used to drive. I loved that automatic it shifts like a car
Damn, he pinstriped the sleeper and trailer pulling out at the beginning of the video. Must be nice not to care.
Do that with a tanker!
The paccar engines in dump trucks on the jobsites have been complaining about allot of emmisions issues. A lot of electrical problems.
This transmission is for on-highway use only. You probably won't see this one in a dump truck anytime soon.
Your probably gonna have more issues in a dump truck vs a road tractor. A road tractor for the most past is constantly moving at a consistent speed for a longer period of time. Where a dump truck may sit around at rock quarries, asphalt plants and job sites. Most of the time there just idling and that not good for the emissions system. I drive a dump truck and this is my 3rd year in it and it has almost 150k and I haven't had any issues with the emissions. Whenever I'm sitting I'll idle at 1,000-1,100 rpms or will shut the truck off. The dvd that comes with new trucks with the MX 13 engines suggests idling at that rpm instead of the 600 or 700 that the trucks standard idle setting is.
@@jrbcjim It'll be cool if they could somehow come out with a Vocational version of this transmission being that Eaton already has a Vocational version of the Ultra Shift transmission. Not sure what all is different between this transmission and the Ultra Shift. Vocational market has been hot as of late.
@@jrbcjim Allison transmissions pretty much has the Vocational market covered.
Your right. But the Allison in my opinion needs more gears. My boss has the 6 speeds in the newer trucks he's purchased the past few years and they seem to need another gear or 2. An 8 speed automatic would be great as far as the Vocational market goes.
It is a good trans and I like it a lot in my kenworth. The thing I do not like is when you're on cruise control, it doesn't interrupt when suddenly you turn engine brake on, it keeps on basically unless you hit brakes or turn CC off.
Also if you are engine braking, taillights come on as if you are pressing brakes. That right there makes many mad when you go down hill with engine breaks on for minutes. It makes you look stupid.
Nice Eaton Endurant 12 speed transmission
How's backing with grossed out on incline dock? I've gotten eaton n dt12 both give me clutch abuse. Eaton actually shut me down for 15mins
Did he hit the curb at 2.30? Suspicious edit at that point.
Does it put itself into NEUTRAL at road speed like the DT12 does these days??
Hi, Try to test drive a ZF ecosplit 16 and compare it to what you are used to in manuals...
How has this held up since this review? Would like to know how the electronics and mechanicals have worn in.
not good
Good vid, Jim. Could you please explain "overall gear ratio"? You gave us gear ratios for 1st, and 12th, but how do you define/calculate overall gear ratio. Thanks much!
Frank, to calculate the overall ratio, you divide the ratio of first gear (14.43) by the final drive ratio (12th gear, 0.77). The answer you should get is 18.74. That's a slightly different number than Paccar advertises, but I think the difference is in their rounding -- they probably use three decimal points rather than two.
@@jrbcjim 7th gear is 0.766 so you'd be right.
Hey Jim,
What do you think about the PACCAR Engine and Transmission now?
Like you to test drive the new Allison TC 10 a REAL automatic transmission, any time soon???
Ya but $-14,000 grand! You can drive with this one and rebuild again and still left over $$$ , what is the point Allison when they keep so expensive ,
Mihail Gujumit
7000$ option for a Ultashift and Allison are trouble free
Allison is a true automatic, I have a 2016 Ford fiesta with an automated transmission, I don't care for it.
How does it compare to ishift ??
In my opinion, it's at least as good as an I-Shift in the performance category. On the technical side, it has pluses and minuses. It's the lightest automated tranny on the market right now at 657 pounds, and it comes with a 5-year, 750,000 mile warranty. On the minus side, the I-Shift has higher ratings and a few more configurations, such as the creeper gear. Give this transmission a few years to establish its place in the market and I think those options will start to appear as well.
It’s a junky Transmission, I ordered one and the engine brake is a crappie one , I should ordered with a Allison Transmission:(
An Allison six speed please.
Looks like German ZF gerar box ))as Ishift Dt12)) just with other adjustment)) and label)
That's probably because its a 12-speed gearbox, like other European transmissions, not the 10-, 13- and 18-speed models North Americans are familiar with.
Jim Park do you happen to know why they didn't use the ZF gearbox (as daf do)? Are ZF truck box's not that big in the US?
Good question Colin. When I first got wind of the new transmission, I assumed it would be a ZF box because of Paccar's association with DAF. I started doing research on the product and had even come to a conclusion as to which model it would likely be. ZF transmissions never got a good market hold in North America, but there was a joint venture between ZF and Meritor about 20 years ago -- before the I-Shift and DT12 -- that produced two transmission called the SureShift and ZF FreedomLine. Both were competent automated manuals, but they were involved in legal proceedings with Eaton, who, it was alleged, was offering steep rebates to its customers to keep its share of that business. The two companies eventually settled the anti-trust suit out of court, but the FreedomLine was never able to recover sufficient marketshare to keep in viable.
It is a ZF gearbox. it used to be a 12 speed manual with synch, wich they converted to an automated one without synchromesh.
@@nickvw5404 my thought also
do you still have or use the trailer brake ?
The enduranceTrans 12 speed is a junk actually Not the mechanical it’s all the software , up shifting Uphill 6 & 7 gears blinks 4-6 then engaged & downshifting uphill from 12 in to 11,10 & 9 gears takes 4-6 blinks before engages again , with 80,000 pounds 4-8 grades hill you’re losing to speed and momentum , the engine break thanks 3 blinks about 2 seconds downshifting in lower gear every time on downhill 4-6 Grade in till it’s thinking to downshift it’s too late needs to go back in a higher gear , this software is a junk I don’t recommend to any to buy this junk Transmission, does a problem they’re testing a brand new and bobtail try after 100,000 miles And full loaded truck , and every time they doing a software update they charging you $$$$ but there is no difference even worse it gets , that’s my advice stay away away but you’re choosing not me I already did and I regret I should get Allison CT10
whats wrong with the good ole 18 speed
exactly how you say it : ole , clutching ( double ) sliding gears is from the stone age dude.
I'd love to see the wheel holders with a 6 X 4 Spicer transmission with 2 boxes and 2 sticks....poor bitches be lost after the first gear change...lmao!!
The new generation driver, Has a difficult time with those transmissions.
I owed 10 automatic transmission Eaton fuller and it’s garbage on hills not managed well when heavy loaded trailer, I regret buying this automatic transmission,
I have this same exact truck with the same engine and trans. I do NOT like it. I was doing much better in my old 10 speed than this trans does by itself. I noticed much more driver interaction with this truck because i'm always trying to correct what it thinks I want to do. And half the time it ignores my input. I can elaborate but this comment will be 4 paragraphs long if I do.
yup manual is always going to be better I won't ever be buying an automated.
Eaton fuller manual best of the best. I don't like automatic.But this is my own opinion.
The Wussification of Trucking... Automatic Transmissions. It was bound to happen once the wife beater oversized tank top, oversized shorts and flip flops became the Standard for truck driving.
It's just a copy of Eaton IShift
Weirdo isn't. He said it's a Eaton transmission 12 speed just for paccar only lol and Eaton doesn't have I-shift
No they're not made by Eaton, I thought Ishift is made by Eaton but it's not, it's made by one of Volvo's companies, but Ishift is the first 12 speed trans, then Freightliner copied it and now Paccar too
No they're not made by Eaton, I thought Ishift is made by Eaton but it's not, it's made by one of Volvo's companies, but Ishift is the first 12 speed trans, then Freightliner copied it and now Paccar too
@@KulinBan777 Eaton already had a ultrashift 12 before volvo. And he said it was a joint Cummings eaton fuller project
Paccar engines suck! 2 years 250 mile warranty, yet the payments last 6 years average, that's a recipe for failure! I will nvr own anything wit the name paccar on it, I druther buy a maxfarce!
In one now it’s junk!!
Exactly almost got into a accident twice because it wanted to think 3 seconds before it shifts. It went into neutral on a hill and almost rolled back on a car. It shifts like a 90 year old man
It also is a problem backing up to a door too. It will totally stop if u tap the break to adjust speed and slams the door.
Cheap copy of Volvo IShift
The software it’s a junk takes too much time to shit down in engine brake takes 3 Blinks before engages and up hill 4-6 blinks between 2-4 seconds Dan starts to engage again , 80,000 LB 6-8% uphill you feel like the trucks going backwards :( that is junk :( they update the software five times and every time gets worse plus they charging you for every updates :( my advice spend more money and get the Allison CT10 trans ,