This BMW Tried to KILL ME! (Random Stall...Part 3 - CONCLUSION)
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- Опубликовано: 3 сен 2023
- In Part 2 we determined there was an issue with the "Power-Saving Relay" that feeds the ignition coils. But what EXACTLY is going on with this relay to explain the BIG VOLTAGE DROPS on the coil supply wire?
The findings will BLOW YOUR MIND!
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HAPPY LABOR DAY!
Ivan 
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Glad you chose to fix the problem and put it back to standard instead of making it worse with a custom fix. Always seems to work out better for everyone that way, well done.
Totally agree. I was worried Ivan was going to repin the holder and therefore not fix the car properly and keep it as the engineers who designed it intended. There will be good reason for the engineers designing and testing and implementing it like this, we are just unfortunately not privy to why.
Yep so the next guy wont pull his hairs out lol
@@Dingolfing
lol, BMW engineers probably design them like this for the exact reason the car was taken to Ivan in the 1st place...... to keep repairs in-house😂
Great repair. That relay is not so uncommon in Europe. It's good to remeber that all 4 pin relays are not alike.
Ivan is holding a Type B relay, and has a Type A socket. Could never convince my boss that there were 2 types of relay even with them in front of him. Said it was a moulding error, and wondered why things didn't work
So the color of the relay does have meaning. I always did wonder about that.
Good to know but I don't think that there's a real reason for having two different pinouts aside from causing headache.
Of course things like this usually originate from the "use OEM parts or it won't work".
@@ehsnils if i´m not mistaken. the pins on the relay are switched around because inside the relay is a small resistor that the car uses for diagnostics.... and standard relays dont have that resistor.... you could use aftermarket parts.., just use the right parts....
@@QBallRacingthat resistor parallel to coil is for back emf supression, so there is not that big reverse voltage spike when magnetic field collapses on power off.
Normally you would put there a reverse diode, but in car you dont know which coil side is connected to positive. So diode would cause short.
Great video Ivan.
The revealing the "special relay" is similar to a very recent problem a friend of mine had with a 1977 BMW R100RS that would not crank. He contacted me by phone and sent me a photo of the starter relay (under the fuel tank) and I looked at the photo and told him "That is just a standard 5-pin Bosch relay, you can find them everywhere." So he buys one at a local auto parts house and not only did it NOT cure the no crank issue................he reported back to me that with the new relay plugged in he had no instrument lights with the key on and basically no power anywhere.
Sure enough, it turns out that BMW did in fact have a special 5-pin relay configuration with 2 #87 terminals connected together (1 fed from Bat+ and the other feeding power onward to the headlight housing electrical center. Though the relay had 5 pins, it functions like a basic 4 pin relay with the 87 terminals really just comprising a junction point for Bat+ feed to the general electrical system.
But BMW did not stop there with the differences. On the R100RS relay, terminal 30 is the controlled output that operates the starter solenoid. Terminals 85 and 86 are still used for the clutch and neutral switch interlock in conjunction with the starter button.
By the way, I ended up driving to his house to check out his issue and determined through testing there was nothing wrong with his original starter relay, the defect turned out to be a faulty clutch lever switch.
Wow... Yeah check the basics first! Clutch switch does thousands of cycles on every ride while the relay only does one 😉
Ugh nothing like sorting out someone elses attempt at repairs. Good find :)
Ivan, you are beyond a genius, your diagnosis and patience is so impressive. Top diagnostic on youtube. Amazing.
Definitely couldn't diagnose these weird ones without a lot of patience and a notebook 😉
And a scope helps too😀@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics can you give us a lesson about newer mercedes can bus , specially w205 flexray network
In this specific model per example if you unplug the steering wheel module or abs module the P indicator will disappear
So can you make a video about this specific sort of issue?
Thanks
Mario has a video on this. That relay could have damaged the ecm. BMW usual have the connector same color of the relay. First red flag was green connector and black relay.
Huh didn't know connectors were color coded... That is helpful!
Definitely NOT poka-yoke!
It happened to me. I blew an entire harness swapping a brown relay for a green one 😂😂😂. I had to replace the harness and the relay. Lesson learned with BMW
One comment: WHY did you even consider the switch the location of the wires ?? To save money and buy a CORRECT relay? TOO hooked on " no parts required " I quess ! Thank God you fixed it the RIGHT WAY.
I've had similar issues dealing with other electrical devices. Someone either puts the wrong part in or sets the wrong option. Then from that day forward all technicians just keep replacing the parts and setting options using the numbers and options off the existing components which are incorrect. Finally someone that takes the effort to run diagnostics and check specs like yourself and finds the problem. good job.
Who'd have thought there'd be 2 automotive relays with the same pin layout but different pin allocations! That's so dumb!
I'm thinking the relay clicking when you plugged it in was an important symptom that got you on track as well.
Masterful work Ivan you did great mate!
Hey I had to laugh when the customer was happy with all your repairs, but also mentioned more leaks & repairs needed! 🤣
You're a Top Tech Ivan. Thanks for taking the time to film your work and share.
Interesting diagnosis. Someone installed a "Power-Robbing Relay" in place of the "Power-Saving Relay". A quick glance would make one think that it is a standard 4 pin relay. Leave it to BMW to use an odd relay. I got a good laugh at your BMW driving reference when you approached the slow moving mini van. The response to your question of the owner's experience was even funnier when the shop replied that they require more repairs. 🤣🤣
It will always need more repairs.
Bring Money Withya ‼️
"They're enjoying BMW ownership". 😂😂😂
I guess the shop owner was poking fun at the car owner there.
Another classic for the library. Great relay lesson, I’ve sure never saw that type. Great work Ivan. 👍👍🇺🇸
“Get this thing off my lawn”…😂! Nice work Ivan!
Great diagnosis, Ivan. Thank you for taking us for the ride.
Lessons I’ve learned from Ivan, there are many, but NEVER by aftermarket electronics parts for a BMW is a major one. And the fact Ivan could have fixed this with NPR is close to a mechanical miracle in itself on a BMW electrical problem. Amazing fix. And the coolant cap and reservoir is a really strange design and is a known failure issue. Cracks over time.
You are truly a master tech, you always manage to make me feel incompetent LOL
Bravo Ivan! 👏 Very impressive sleuthing. When you don't have good technical data and you don't know the history, it's quite a challenge.
Ivan saves another one with a little help from rock auto 👍
Ivan triumphs over lesser mortals failings using logic and technology to test his deductions while keeping totally calm and focused on task.Can I ask if there is a hint of Vulcan in the family tree,is Spock a distant cousin ?Outstanding
Wow thank goodness that you could cross reference that relay to a standard product.
I can’t imagine what that relay would’ve cost at the dealership!
Another great diagnosis!
Happy Labor Day!
Bring
More
Wallets
The relays are around that price range at the dealer. The issue is that they don't have them. I had this happen on a Hyundai; had to be a specific relay not just any 5 pin relay. Gotta be careful with those relays as they are activated in a certain flow; otherwise it won't work.
This relay costs 14 dollars at the dealership... relays are one of a few parts on a BMW that are usually cheaper at the dealer than aftermarket
Break My Wallet ‼️
You would be surprised how affordable a lot of parts are. The water-cooled alternator on the other hand is about the same cost as a chevy cobalt (the entire car)
That's absolutely bonkers. Those symptoms due to a relay... did NOT see that coming!
Well, in the last video you had to develop a "strategy" to repair this car. Then, you mentioned that it takes an elaborate "plan" to reproduce this random stalling. IVAN! You know the Germans always over-engineer everything. So, we can conclude when the Germans over-engineer it takes the Russians to repair. Besides, it would have been too simple to use the same relay everyone else does. GREAT VIDEO!
21:20 For diagnosis BMW use ISTA software.
This is more of a last guy did it kind of problem. Bmw gets a bad wrap.. when it seems its more like people dont know how to work on them. Another confirmed kill. Great work Ivan as always.
It is their fault because they make their product such a mystery by keeping all the cards to themselves and not playing the game like other brands.
Factory software, dealer software, repair manuals, functional descriptions and electrical diagrams are freely available on the internet, but they do not make these available to aftermarket diagnostic tools.
@@peto22
One step removed from the right to repair issue. Is that fair to say?
Good one Ivan. Glad you survived. That guard rail where it stalled has some history.
Wow didn't think when this series started, most of the trouble would come from a relay. But that weird sawtooth looking voltage drop I suppose was a hint about what was going on.
Wow! I wonder if this car went to auction over a relay. Always keep the oem part until the problem is solved. Nice repair! I would mark that relay with yellow stripes or as custom BMW!
That car has been hacked up by somebody..i will refresh your memory..ivan mentioned the catalytic convertors were hollowed out
Once again you solved the problem, great job as usual Ivan.
Brilliant Ivan. These sorts of faults are an absolute nightmare. But a little knowledge and and keeping a cool head always helps. Research is always key.
Ivan, I love this Labor Day Weekend special. It is remarkable that you did not lose your cool on this one, especially after the way it left you and your wife stranded on the side of a mountain. Obviously, Knowing how and using a scope is clearly what distinguishes your work (and the smarts to interpret the data) from most other mechanics. Please keep the videos and the education coming.
What an amazing repair...God only knows how you dropped straight to that relay
You the man 👨 🙌
I was thinking the same! Takes a lot of experience to read out the vague difference on the scope.
Prime example of data-driven diagnostics. If data doesn't make sense, then we have to figure out WHY!
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics been watching your videos for years now...always great watching a knowledgeable guy do his thing..well done Ivan 👍👍
Great diag and repair Ivan... Well done M8 ! BTW - Hope you are enjoying the holiday weekend, cheers !
You can just see the two or three engineers at BMW sitting around a table and saying this.
(Eng #1)" Hey guys, what do you think about putting in a relay that has reversed wiring compared to a universal standard"??
( Eng #2) "I think that's a great idea, Can you just imagine how many people will put in a standard relay"
(Eng #3) Just imagine all the money our BMW service depts can make because of this ,Once they realize the symptoms, the "repair: can be done quick and we can still charge 2 hours flat fee.
Brilliant find Ivan !!!
This is yet another case where I am not sure there is another mechanic that would have found this. Amazingly crazy, just the way Ivan evidently likes it!
Fantastic Labor Day weekend case study! That's one for the PHAD diagnositc record book. Thanks Ivan!
Ivan, I retired after almost 50 years in car repair business. Switched over to fixing lawnmowers and four wheelers. I can’t tell you how many times I have run into people using parts that looked the same but worked different in the electrical system. Especially ignition modules and key switches. Different model. Same mistakes ‼️
Great Job! The only issue I noticed is you are driving BMWs improperly. BMW drivers always tailgate the car in front and never use the directionals. 🤣
Mercedes also has problems with coolant pressure tanks leaking like that. German plastics don't hold up and I think it's a combination of trying to use more environmentally friendly plastics combined with high under hood temps. Definitely NOT a coincidence that a leak emerged after replacing the tank (pressure can build to proper levels now).
Seems it was indeed a proprietary relay! Why make it regular, when you can make it special - German manufacturers do love this approach!
Fantastic diagnostic and repair, Ivan!
It occurs to me Ivans higher level math education lends itself to diagnostics quite well. I get geometry class flashbacks when watching his videos! I know my solution is correct. I will now show you my proof. Great series for the weekend! Thank you!
Ha I remember doing geometry proofs in 9th grade... Get that warm fuzzy feeling 😁
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnosticsIt sure does. I still recall the chapter that explained the different "shapes" such as isosceles triangle.
Great point !
Once again you have demonstrated how many problems are the result of prior "repairs".
I can remember some really crazy troubleshoots where my BMW was concerned. Once had to figure out an idle oscillation that was so bad the drivers sitting in the lane next to me thought I was looking for a drag race! Those rigs will keep you sharp! As per usual your use of the correct diagnostic instruments combined with intuitive reasoning paid off yet again. I cheer at your successes and actually saddened when things go amiss. Like with that junker pontiac you had to eat time figuring out. I sent some bucks your way over that one. Keep up with the good content. Many can learn and benefit from observing your systematic troubleshooting approaches. All the best.
I accept the unspoken mountain climb challenge in a minivan. My Honda Odyssey can rip that hill send "us" the location! From here on out this would be known as the "Ivan hill climb".
Great diag as usual 😀
Also a great lesson on relay differences for DIY's like myself.
i'am always learning something here.
Still living up to the name of being a money pit & how easy it is to stuff things up with wiring in modern vehicles Cheers mate looking foward to the next crazy diagnosis.
Wow! Great diagnosis and video as usual. Never would have thought of an automaker using a non standard 4 pin relay and non standard pin numbers on the wiring diagrams. What a mess, but you figured it out as usual. Kudos.
That was a GREAT diagnostic, and yet again shows the power and importance of the scope.... AAAANDDDD knowing what is a good waveform and what is not. It's not the tools that make a good mechanic, but what's between his EARS! 👍
Hi Ivan. Yep you're right about these V8 X5 BMW vehicles being a money pit. I used to own one and got rid of it when the repair bills were rising. I spotted that a previous owner is using the wrong coolant. It's not supposed to be green, it's supposed to be the blue coolant. This poor thing has been hacked about with shortcut remedies. Thank God it's in your hands to rescue it.
Amazing diagnosis! Not sure about automotive, but another reason to replace a relay with an exact replacement is that the contacts can be especially adapted to the load. Some are gold plated. You did it!!! Hope you have a great holiday!
Great diag and a correct repair, as a retired BMW tech the black relay would have been a dead giveaway. Overall I love your diagnostics and use of the scope ..I am addicted to your videos 😊😊😊😊😊
I had this problem on a mini, which is BMW. Crazy idea.
if i´m not mistaken. the pins on the relay are switched around because inside the relay is a small resistor that the car uses for diagnostics. just so you dont use a "standard" relay with "standard" pinout becuse without the resistor the cars electronics/diagnostic posibilities would not work properly... so short answer, you can use aftermarket parts, just use the right parts...
Holy smokes what a convoluted mess you had to straighten out. You sir are "da man." Well done my friend.
I learn something every time I watch one of your videos.
Nice bit of automotive detective work and finding the correct solution. Onwards and upwards from here. This is Houston control and we have lift off.
Awesome episode. I went to sleep at 12 am hoping that part 3 would be up in the morning, indeed it was!!
Happy labor day from Rockwall Texas
Wow, brilliant diagnoses! Thanks for sharing!
This must be added to the book of knowledge for sure.
Too funny, when you said "I think this car's got a few more miles left in it before something else goes wrong" the first words out of my mouth were, "yeah very few miles, it is a BMW after all", so hearing you say at the end that it's only been a month and the car already needs more repairs was both funny and a bit surprising, i was surprised it took that long before needing more high dollar parts thrown at it, because it is a BMW after all ....
Ivan, I was totally wrong about the "pulses" and the "shield grounding, etc." I, like a lot of others, were waiting for the "other shoe to drop," in Part 3 - And that it did! :-)
You are always "tuned in" to funny "noises" - and funny "clicks." Hearing that "click" made your brain cells "light up." And your "cells" were correct.
Once again, we all enjoyed the ride, while "looking over your shoulder." Many thanks - great diag.
Great great diag...great detective work.again your diagrams reading skills are awesome 👌 👏 👍🏿 cheers
I think the difference is DIN as opposed to SAE standards, but I've always thought it to be a pretty dumb idea to have the same interchangeable form factor but with various different possible pin-outs on both 4 and 5 pin versions.
I'm now always super careful to check all the pin allocations with this style 4/5 pin relay as you never want to just guess since there are quite a few possible combinations that may all 'look' the same, but are waiting to catch out the newbies.
I had a customer with a Ford call me out many years ago that had installed a 'replacement' relay, and it 'somehow' fried the wiring harness control side ground wire.
I determined it was caused by exactly this same 'mis-matched' but 'still plugs in' relay situation.
Unfortunitely they were unlucky that the control pins were reversed from what you had on the BMW and it wasn't a simple positive/positive swap.
The permanently grounded control wire was sent positive power when the wrong relay was installed and you guessed it, the grounded control wire quickly became a fuse.😂
Super helpful ! That lesson will never be forgotten ! Really enjoyed this . Thanks again !! 🙌🏼
imagine if you had just found it with a heat scan? you continue to be the Yoda we can aspire to
Great video Ivan! Love the holiday weekend video series. Like I said, if people didn't fail at repairing their cars, we would never get these great videos. Hope you had a great weekend as well!
The patience of Job, top job.
Another great holiday special. Thank you for putting these together. Keep it up!!!
Man, you Sherlock Holmes’d the shit outta this one. Well done! 🎉
Ivan, we always like a great ending! Smiles all around. Wishing you and the Mrs. a Happy Labor Day as well. Thanks for Sharing!
I’ve come across that relay configuration a few times. Good find.
Wow. I Never would have figured that out. Well done, Ivan. 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Great job on that one Ivan.....all I can say is those damn BMW's.....
A keen eye and some experience sure helps too !
Years ago I had a miswired relay harness on my Airdog fuel prep system for my truck.
Great episode, who would have thought a faulty relay or wrong rely when the car starts and runs thank god the giant parts cannon wasn't fired on this thing.
Great diag & repair. I'm glad that a reasonably priced Standard relay was available, otherwise you might have repinned the socket, which could have been a problem later for someone else. And I especially appreciated the clear explanation of pins 30 & 87 & 85 & 86. I sort of got it before, but your clear explanation really helped, thanks. And when I hear that it's an auction car, I am reminded of what the wise man from Avoca, NY said about auction cars - something like "not every bad car is at the auction, but every car at the auction is bad".
I'm learning every day from the best. Tks again Ivan.
Awesome diagnostic skills 🤩
Wow. Great thinking and testing Ivan.
Good detective Ivan, very good job
Happy Labor Day Ivan. Another great video series!
Awesome work!
Great work Ivan.
Absolutely incredible, Ivan! You are truly the best!!
You do amazing work Ivan!
Wow. Good work.
Damm good repair and wonderful conclusion, congrats!
Great work!! Need to be always thinking 🤔🤔!
Great diagnosis Ivan, you really do get some dogs delivered to your workshop to repair. What worries me is people driving around in these vehicles in that state.
This car maay not pass emissions in PA depending where it is sold. Perhaps you have not watched "Just Rolled In" here on YT.
@@larrybe2900 Yes just rolled in many times and I am amazed at the state of some of those vehicles. What amazes me is they drive them out again refusing any repairs. I live in the Uk so not familiar with USA regulations, but you would not be allowed to take the vehicle back onto the road from the repair shop overhere.
That definitely was an interesting case study, especially how that relay was configured. I have the new Uactivate tool by AESwave and bought the extra BMW adapter for it. Out of curiosity, I went and looked at how it was configured and it's configured just like that relay was with 87 & 30 next to each other and 85 & 86 next to each other. Their adapter end is the same green color as well.
Wow, very interesting conclusion! Amazing that a generic relay was the issue. Excellent sleuthing on this one!
Thanks for the video Ivan.
Tx's for sharing and Happy Labor Day!
Like most of your videos, I learned something new with this one. Thanks Ivan!!
As soon as you started talking about the relay I had a flashback to a motorcycle I worked on many years ago. The horn relay was like you encountered - I think I've still got one of them in my odds and ends collection!
Your f'g brilliant! I've watched your videos overtime and you never ceased to impress!
Great repair
Another brilliant diagnostic.
GOOD Job Ivan!!! I was on pins on needles waiting for part 3!
Excellent diagnosis Ivan…terrific logical thinking and trouble shooting techniques 👍😎