If I'm honest, modes held me back
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- Inspired by a recent post of Guthrie Trapp's. I haven't ever heard anyone mention modes since moving to Nashville, either. Here's why I think focusing on them held me back from where I personally wanted to go and what I think about instead.
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0:00 Welcome! Modes held me back.
1:00 Disclaimer :)
2:09 Here’s a working definition for “mode”
3:37 How modes held me back…
5:28 Where I actually wanted to go…
7:34 This video is for you if…
8:12 EX 1 a chord progression in the key of G
12:44 THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS VIDEO
13:30 EX 2 a chord progression that doesn’t fit neatly into one key
15:39 Everything is chords.
17:50 Closing thoughts. Please SUBSCRIBE
Thanks for hanging out! 
Видеоклипы
Let me address two things: 1) I don’t think I’ve ever had a natural musical ability. It comes down to one thing only: hours. Not just any hours. FOCUSED hours of practice. Sweat. Frustration. Almost walking away a thousand times but not actually doing so. Tiny, incremental breakthroughs that add up over the years. No one’s fingers go to the right notes automatically. All I’m saying in this video is that focusing on chord tones instead of thinking what scale or mode I’m in got me where I wanted to go. And where I wanted to go, as I said in the video, is playing melodies. Saying something with my playing that is compelling to others in the same way that I find my favorite players compelling. More on this to come…
2) I’m not saying that I don’t use ANY framework at all. I’m just saying that when I think of scales or modes, that tends to be what comes out. When I think of chord tones, something more melodic comes out. At this point, I’m really not trying to think of anything…just listening and trying to get out on the guitar the melodies I hear in my head. Pat Metheny has said that he thinks in triads and uses arpeggios to get around the fretboard. I think this is a lot closer to what I’m doing. More on this to come as well…
I think they call that sub conscious competence. Do all the theory study to a level your not thinking of it when playing.
I'm not there yet
Ok, the song is a country song with 3 chords C, F, G. What do you play on the solo and explain how that isn't math or a mode? Major scale = Ionian Mode = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 , 6, 7. Looks like math and modes to me?
What is the Nashville Numbering system? Math? That progression is a I IV V. Based on what?
I = C = 1,3,5
IV = F = 1,3,5
V = G = 1,3,5
C major Pentatonic = 1, 2, ,3 ,5, 6
1,3,5 of what? Chord tones of what? Degrees of what? I, IV, V of what? Wouldn't that be of a scale which is also a mode?
My point being music is based on math and modes whether you are thinking about or not. ;-)
@@DavidHenderson01All I’m saying is, I’m focusing more on the chord tones you listed out and not so much on the scale formulas, etc. You might think that way, and that’s fine. But I find that I play more compelling, melodic stuff when I *don’t* think that way.
@@JustinOstrander What I am saying is the triads you are focusing on are based on modes/scales you are not focused on. And that all that harmony that you are not focused on is based on math. But it is all still there whether you happen to think about it or not. Like nouns, verbs, adjectives, etc... when we speak.
BTW, I am able to think about it in way more than one way which I am sure you are too. It all works! That's the beauty of music....thanks!!
I understand both points being made but it is a big stretch to say you don’t want to hear math in music when modern country music is so full of cliche based entirely on the number of any given chord. Of course everybody wants to free their mind and play from the heart but you guys are under pressure, banging out songs on the clock and employ a number system and the common phrases/cliche’s/devices associated with it to get the job done.
I’m so glad that you said this! I think Lenny Kravitz once said: I’d rather hear someone play one A note over and over again with passion than to hear someone play scales all over the place. That really resonated with me as a guitar player growing up.
Joe Strummer said something to the effect that he would rather listen to a novice struggle to play at the edge of their ability, and pull it off, then listen to a virtuoso.
I wonder if Mr Kravitz would listen to someone play modes with passion. That person would be Carlos Santana, who regularly used modal ideas in his playing. I could keep going with a list hundreds of names long but Santana is KNOWN for his passion. The point is you can know your instrument AND play with passion since those things don’t cancel each other out.
I think the best soloing advice I got from a RUclips teacher was : forget modes and learn phrases that are inspired from the music your trying to solo to. He was a old jazz guitarist and said he listen’s to music and finds a song within a song that inspires him. I do that and really does help.
It’s all about the chords…
This is the approach I want to take - Thanks for this 👍
My guitar teacher showed me the mixolydian and dorian modes and studying and listening to how those modes sound like has really opened up my harmonic palette when I improvise. I think modes can be a great teaching vehicle if you don't look at them too mechanically.
Yes there awesome.i just look at them as extensions of the major scale.always look at everything from the major scale.makes it much easier for me.its all about the chord progression.once I figured out if you start with a d chord,it doesn’t mean it’s in the key of d always.big lightbulb moment
Jake at Signals Music Studio is a very technical thinker (and a great teacher!) but explained modes as feelings rather than specific entities. This really helped me understand how to use 7th chords, substitute chords, borrowed chords, etc. There isn't a specific formula for anything, the notes should advance the feeling. It's great to hear @justinostrander bring a similar conclusion from a very different journey. And the hat tip to Jimmy Page's emoting rather than shredding is huge.
Modes are going for parallel and relative thinking. I bet you think completely differently about your approach to every song you play.
Modes are a system of organization.
Modes simply allow you to experiment with major scale, mangle it, and "name" it.
All the little licks he played sure sounded like some kind of mode to me. You can either reinvent the wheel or skip the line and learn modes.
I am so thankful that you are on YT. Things are happening here that are unlike other channels. The best thing you can share with us is YOU. We are getting priceless info from your life experiences, and they are a wellspring. THANK YOU.
Looking forward to and patiently awaiting your guitar courses! Great video! Happy Thanksgiving!
Everything Justin mentioned about shapes and modes rings true for me. We can lean them but if we don't know how to put them together it is useless.
I'd love to learn more!
Breath of fresh air - enlightening and inspiring.
I must be missing something….
I play all the same styles of music as Justin and use modes constantly. And think of it as such.
- dropping a mixolydian lick in when a b7 chord comes is 🤌🏻
- Playing minor over major to get that blues growl at the peak of a solo is 🤌🏻
- swapping between Lydian and mixolydian in a ‘fire on the mountain’ 4-5 chord progression is 🤌🏻
- dropping that natural 6 of a Dorian scale when doing a bluesy solo 🤌🏻
I see how it doesn’t work for all, but it works for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think it’s more than what you teach Justin, and that of course is inspiring itself. It’s your delivery. Your presentation-demeanor and attitude is so peaceful and calming. People need that. Thx
This is so invaluable. Thank you, Justin. So very appreciated.
Thank you so much for this. I have been thinking about this for years and could never get my mind around it. The way you described modes and chord tones broke open that wall.
Obviously only speaking for myself, but an understanding of modes helps me navigate other people's compositions when thrown in to a situation. The chords of the song create the mood/vibe and an understanding of modes, not just as a scale but as an emphasis or perspective from one of the 7 chords of a given major scale, helps me know where I am and what chords are immediately available to me in a given moment/position.
I am still responding to the melodic lines my brain is creating on the spot and doing my best to materialize them immediately. I'm not playing patterns, modal understanding allows me to find those notes in my head on the fretboard on the spot/in the moment. Modes are seen as fragments, but they are of course are all just the one scale they're based in. CAGED and modes are the same information, the same 7 intervals. We all connect with concepts in our own way. Again, the chords tell us the modality, it's like a compass or a "You are here" spot on a map in a place you've never been before.
I jumped on this when I saw the title because I was really interested to hear your take on it Justin. When I started playing lead guitar I went to a teacher who immediately got me into scales and modes. I found though, when I started playing in original bands, playing vocal/lyric based music I couldn't really apply it. It was almost like I had to unlearn what I'd learned...or that way of thinking.
These days I just generally try to create a part in my head paying a lot of attention to respect the vocal melody because, as I said I'm playing vocally driven music. I guess most of us are really!
I'm not a huge fan of sales and modes. My first instructor worded it in a way that sat with me. If you can hear it in your head, you can play it with your hands. That seems to be the way to go for me, I have a decent ear, so it works rather well.
Only if you have a certain amount of technique and knowledge.@@donbishop6994
Compelling and illuminating. As DC Berman put it, "All my favorite singers couldn't sing." So true.
Go K State, too. 😊
Again a fantastic episode - the way and attidtude you play is exactly my understanding of a nice guitar part. you always find melodies and "micro-hooks" - the listener can feel the passion and feeling you add onto a piece of music
Please continue with this in a series of videos. Well done.
Well said. I can't wait to learn more. Please keep me videos about this topic coming. And Happy Thanksgiving!
100% agree! What a great way to practice and find the notes that connect the most with your own ears on a particular chord. Thanks!
You wonderfully put into words my whole philosophy. Thanks!
Best and most practically helpful explanation on this topic I have seen to date
Myself and a buddy were taking a look at Carol Kaye talking about her earlier career. She said back in the day, they weren't thinking of scales and basing everything off of them. They were thinking of chord tones. I thought that was well and good for a pop musician but then we heard her playing with Joe Pass and well, never mind. She obviously knows what she's talking about. Wow!
Yeah, great point. Pat Metheny is a big chord tone stickler as well.
Have you ever seen Carol Kaye play guitar? She's a great bebop soloist. Also saw her and Joe Pass, she asked Joe to play bass and she played his ES-175.
Scales and modes are like roadmaps, they only take you where someone has already been
That comment ALMOST got it right. They ARE like roadmaps…they tell you where you CAN go but not where you HAVE to go. BTW literally every guitarist (and other musicians) including JO are playing modes whether they think that way or not. Playing a major sound and flatting the seventh IS mixolydian. A minor sound with the major sixth IS Dorian. Thinking modally is one way to arrive at that sound but there are others.
Always enjoy your point of view, playing and tips. The diplomacy you use is also masterful. Well done!
This was great advice and rad playing. Thanks Justin!
You are a great speaker/communicator. Not as easy as it looks. Not to mention an inspiring player. Love the video. Happy holidays!
Thanks a ton!
This channel is rad. So glad I found it.
Thanks Justin, to hear this from a session player, it gives so many of us (me) hope and a real sanity-check from all we see/watch out here in RUclips land. Yes, I'm still so pentatonic, but my "moments" are when I just go a deep as I can into the song itself. Thank You!!!
This video was heaven-sent for me. I've been guilty of just memorizing patterns and such, and I've had no idea how to break out of it all. Will definitely keep an eye open for your courses.
Thanks for this. I ve been in a deep dive with the Greek word scales for a while now. This was a great reset of perspective and reminder on the priority of chord tones in what we all play.
Cheers!
Thank you for this, Justin. I’ve been playing for a long time and only recently began focusing on playing the changes, knitting together rhythm and lead parts. Because I tend to overthink things, I also went down the rabbit hole of scales, keys, modes etc, and was frustrated to find that I always seemed to sound uninspired and frankly, unmusical. Focusing on chord tones while soloing has started a whole new journey, but here’s the thing - even the simplest of targeted, intentional notes played with feeling sounds better than the prior box I was in. The examples you played, Justin, solidified it for me. I could hear every chord change in your lead lines, which drew me in to a musical story. Thanks for this - a real gift.
well you've turned into a great teacher that's for sure, really enjoyable
Great video! I've heard jazz players talk about this topic, but its nice to see it applied in such a clear way. Definitely worth a subscribe!
Great lesson and amazing guitar playing!
Yeah, I took this from Guthrie's videos maybe 18 months ago and it helped a lot. This is excellent. Thanks Justin
Ready for the courses!
Great Playing as usual and I think you've made some excellent points! I know that this 'chord approach" for solos makes my students break out of their ruts and play more melodically and musically. Love this!
Thank you for the straightforward honesty
Man it took me so long to understand this disconnect. I gave up on lessons and instructional material early on because it wasn’t getting me closer to what I wanted to do: play the melodies I heard in my head (which I now understand were built from chord tones). So I just learned by ear. The concepts you are teaching would have actually helped me way back then. Thanks and happy Thanksgiving Justin!
Wow my exact story 😀
Your channel, together with Uncle Larry's are my favorites right now. A huge lesson here.
I needed to hear this
I’ve watched it seems a million mode videos but never grasped the concept until your simple explanation. Now that I know what they are, I can continue to ignore them. Thanks, J!!
Such great information...
You're right, too ..
Happy Thanksgiving 🦃
Love it! Still killin it 🤙🏽🤙🏽 I like where you’re going
Absolutely golden advice. I've been playing for decades, stuck in patterns. I am just NOW getting the flick on chord tones. Damn!
So great you are doing instruction. You have very quickly become my favorite guitar player since you launched your channel and I have always wondered- how on earth do you come up with those note choices and have such unreal timing to be so musical. All I can say is THANK YOU!
This is awesome. Thank you!
I needed this.
Good advice. Love your melodies.
Once again bowled over. Plain speaking with a clear message, backed up with great examples. Looking forward to the guitar courses.
Justin, this was the most insightful and helpful advice I have ever received. Thank so much you for taking the time to share your perspective. This is really going to help my playing and make me a better guitar player. Cheers from Sydney Australia.
Great video and great advice! And cool tele!
Couldn’t have said it better. Straight and to the point. Bravo! Thanks for the video dude.
Another outstanding video. You are an amazing guitar player.
I learned the biggest portion of my playing from being in cover bands.... Copying other guitar players ....Tones, techniques , fx usage, etc.....The interesting thing I found is that I would copy them note for note and some where along the way, I had interjected my own subtle thing to it. "Stealing" from other players is a great way to develop your own style.
My high school son is getting good and eyeballing school jazz band for next year. I was trying to share THIS EXACT IDEA with him, but I couldn’t articulate it this well. Your “chords through the solo” section is EVERYTHING! It mirrors the best advice on musicianship I ever received. I just sent him this video. I’m going to make him watch it. Twice. 🤘🏽💪👍
Thanks a ton!
Thank you! This was part of my recovery!
Great points and well explained. This connected with me as I’m trying to step up from rhythm playing to lead (with it sounding natural and my own voice). Thanks!
Looking forward to that mini course too!
My guitar teachers would write out the modes and hand them to me but never would explain how to actually make music with them. Great video I agree completely.
Thank you Justin. I agree 100% and wish I would’ve had a teacher like you when I was younger. I wasted a lot of time.
Nailed it Justin. It was Derek Trucks who really opened my ears to what honest playing sounds like, and it sounds nothing like straight up scales and modes. Targeting chord tones and knowing the song inside and out is what’s important to finding your voice.
How do you know what a chord tone is? Why learn that but not modes?
@@edbernardmusic3599 As Justin said, it depends on what you’re trying to accomplish with the instrument. If you’re wanting to be more expressive and melodic, knowing how to target chord tones is essential. If you’re motivated by technical skill and fast playing, then sure, learning all the modes in all positions will help you to achieve that. You choose where to focus your time to get the results you’re after.
Modes aren't positions, they're notes. You use them all the time in slow playing and melodies.@@japanjay
Arpeggios are all chord tones. You're not required to play them fast.@@japanjay
@@edbernardmusic3599 Yep, there aren’t any rules on how you should approach making music, it’s all just notes in the end. How technical you want to get is up to the individual. The point was it’s sometimes better to lead with the heart instead of the head.
Looking forward to a course!
Outstanding. Been soo flailing around with modes/scales; then when I say f it, find something cool. THANK YOU!!
Finally, an explanation of Modes that doesn't cause my brain to spin out, and not only that I can immediately see how I can use it in my improvisations. This along with mixing minor and major scales is enough to jam to my heart's content. Modulations though are still a mystery
Creativity doesn't come from technical prowess. It comes from feeling and inspiration and being a conduit for the music. Those who don't possess it, dissect it!
I’m the same way, Justin - I want to feel like I’m hearing a human voice coming through the instrument: phrases, pushes and pulls against the chords, and those big, obvious turns between chords that aren’t root notes, and little inflections. Seeing you here sure reminds me of our old jams in my parent’s basement! One of my favorite memories from the 90’s. I can still hear that little blues riff pattern you used to start us off with 1-8-b7-5. Sure a fun way to cut your teeth with friends. So fun to see where you’ve gone!
Those were good times and very formative for me!
Straight up sound counsel, wish I saw this vid 30 years ago.
In the late seventies I somehow convinced a young Mark O'Connor into giving me guitar lessons. He was 16 and already had several albums under his belt. Man was that humbling lol. He had taken lessons when he was younger from my previous guitar teacher Al Turray, a jazz guy. Anyway at the end of the first lesson I asked him if there were any scales I should be practicing. Mark said and I quote "scales are for beginners, practice playing music".
Probably my best lesson from him involved the rhythm part for sweet Georgia brown. Mark grabbed my right hand when I was struggling to play it and said I can see you're trying to count it. You'll never get it that way, just listen to me play it again and feel it. So I did and damned if I didn't start just grooving and playing the hell outta it. Just had to stop thinking.
Incredibly well explained. I have also gone that route in terms of scales and patterns. Nowadays I mostly focus on chord tones and pentatonics.
The light has come on for me, and I won't stop looking for more colors of that light. :)
Thanks Justin 😊😊😊
Thank You!!!
@justinostrander I’m so excited for this couse! Literally can’t wait. This is literally my main problem. 20+ years later just barely learned the true importance of triads/chords
This lesson gave me inspiration to break out and try something new. Thank you!
my man!! you just put into words what ive been struggling to communicate for my entire guitar playing career haha. THANK YOU! My first guitar teacher was a technical shredder and he was amazing, but he really stressed the modes and scale shapes and I've never been able to figure out why I can't seem to get the sounds I want out of my playing. I've heard about playing over chords but I always thought that meant doing the musical math as you put it... this video may have changed my life! haha you rock - ps - I love your playing man! big fan, i'd love to get you on some tunes soon!
That's so true! Some of my favorite players aren't technical at all, in a way!!! They play beautiful melodic melodies! Mike Campbell, Keith Richards, David Gilmour, Eric Clapton, and so many more. It comes from your heart and soul. When I'm playing live or in the studio, I try to just get out of the way and let the magic happen. That works the best for me. Thank you so much for everything you do on your channel. I really love it here!!!
First off, this is a great video. Great playing, great human advice. Every time I’ve tried to go beyond the major scale it doesn’t feel or sound right. The guy who showed me music theory (before internet) quickly showed me the major scale, then the 1,3,5, to make the triads and said, “that’s all you really need to know”
Love your take on this. That stream of consciousness solo was so tasty! Especially the bit of dissonance at 16:25. Thanks!
I love your stream of consciousness playing. That was some awesome stuff! That's my natural inclination, but I don't have that ingrained knowledge that you do. To be able to let it flow like that is really great stuff.
This makes 💯 sense to me and is where I'm try to get to as a "bedroom player". Focusing on modes and scales has left me stagnant and frustrated. For what I am wanting to accomplish it seems its all about chord tones. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction!
That second improv is what I try to do when I write. Another great video.
Very interesting approach, indeed!
Modes are not just patterns. They are tonalities. Each mode has a different flavor. Focusing on the sound is more important than the pattern.
Triads and Triad pairs have been helpful to me so far. Although It's been frustrating too. Great content Justin.
Thank you Justin, once again you have freed my mind. I learned about modes about 40 years ago and have always felt like i was missing something because i could never use them effectively in my playing. When I write music and improvise solos I try to find something musical that fits and sounds good. I now I know that's all I need to do. I will leave modes to the likes of Steve Vai.
Beautiful shared! Love it, thank you!
The Rain Song Tuneing comes to mind... very creative!
thats was nice! great playing also!
Thanks!
Hi Justin, you pointed out a few things that bring me closer to music again... thank you!
Great to hear!
Hey Justin, more great content - I went down this exact route, I can hear myself in old recordings where I'm like a guy about to attempt to jump over a big gap - I'm getting ready, nervous, I'm gonna go, next time round I'll do it, and - MODE!
It never ceases to fascinate me how we (the guitar nerd universe inhabitants) on the one hand idolize players like Page, Knopfler, Gilmore, Hendrix, etc whose philosophy and approach aligns with yours, yet on the other hand are seduced by the allure of pure (non-musical) technical proficiency. Your course will stand out in a very positive way. Looking forward.
Absolutely agree with your way here Justin. Love your tone and playing mate👍🙂
Excellent!!! Your manner of explaining the concepts you are discussing are great! Your approach is so incredibly accurate to real life and what I refer to as “real guitar” playing. I don’t mean to dismiss those that know the scales, the modes, and have spent years on technique. There is certainly something to be said for that and I certainly admire those such as Steve Via (who is a personal hero)and Tim Henson, their technique and proficiency across the fretboard is absolutely incredible. But being able to improvise and weave a melody or a lead in and around the chords of the song are in my opinion an entirely different animal and you have done an excellent job of explaining that and how that works
Justin, really hoping to buy your solo courses soon. Ready to put hours of practice, but really want to make sure I practice the right thing (vs. bad habits). Hoping you will send me down the right path to musical improvisation.
Love your style btw.
I absolutely agree! I struggled with modes as well, and when I tried to play as you described, it just didn't work. I think it's more about a sound than anything. Getting sounds like Carlos Santana personifies the Dorian sound rather than the mode itself. I relate Mixolydian to The Allman Brothers also. I'm glad I'm not alone in this and I have listened to Guthrie intently and gotten a lot from his understanding of how professional players see and understand the fretboard. Thanks for the confirmation Justin! It's more helpful than you might know. Especially in my late years!
When I started lessons 30 years ago after a while my teacher started to learn me the modes. He mapped them out on several sheets of paper with all the boxes and such. It was natural to him because he was a schooled teacher and a session guitar player here in holland. I started to learn all the shapes but I couldn't find a musical context for it. It began to frustrate me more and more that I didn't get it. I quit lessons and foundanother teacher and he learned me to improvise using the notes in the chord structures and appergios. That opened up a whole new way of playing to me. Immediately my playing became more melodic in a way that I could express my emotions more naturally. Modes are fine but for me it didn't work.
Justin, I become a better musician every time I watch your channel ! Thank you!
Good advice all round.
Hope you and your family had a great Thanksgiving. I play for myself now. My only live experience was in a praise and worship band. I knew going in my job was to stay out of the way, add just the right amount of fill and watch for key changes if the vocalist having a problem with pitch on a song that day. You don't have time to do "math" just be flexible and know where the right notes are...quickly.