A Hellion's View Of The Christian Music World. The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- What you might not know about the Christian music world. CCM to Southern Gospel...let's talk about what nobody is talking about.
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-Nicky V
"I am not a Christian artist, I am an artist who is a Christian." Johnny Cash
I hear ya
Another Great Video Nicky! I did some studio work last year for a couple of Christian acts. Had a great time. The guys I worked with were pretty awesome. And yeah we had a few beers while recording :)
Haha love that!
Nothing wrong with having a few beers. Jesus doesn’t care. If you were drinking in excess, that’s a different story
@@bks252 Agreed :)
Jesus was a winemaker.
I appreciate you making this. I found this to be pretty insightful. Makes me wonder about my role as a consumer, particularly as somebody that listens to quite a bit of Christian music.
Do you have any thoughts for a consumer of Christian music? It’s a weird sentence to write but I hope you understand the heart behind my question.
As a consumer it’s hard to know the heart of what went into it and its story so I would enjoy what you enjoy :)
I am a Christian. But modern church music is gay. I’m there to celebrate the gift that Jesus is to the world. Not slowly wave my hand in the air to a 1-4-6-5 chord progression while the guitar is drenched in delay and reverb and the keyboard “player” holds down a pad sound the whole time. So depressing. And gay.
I love that you called out the 1-4-6-5 haha
Thanks for checking the video out
In my humble opinion... In my over 50 years of drumming, having done pretty much every Genre and scenario, There is a much greater broader issue going on. The music/worship thing has become a religion/cult all it's own within churches edified to the status of a golden calf so to speak. That's what I have observed and I'm out and done. I likely will never play drums in church again. Honestly I have always felt uncomfortable with it all right from the start.
I now attend a little church with a piano and organ which are never played together at the same time. The music is in its rightful place once again, far in the background as a thin layer under girding the most important thing.... the words of the songs and hymns clearly and easily heard, being absorbed directly by one's soul. No tyranny of PowerPoint etc... Simply glorious.
The process that led to the monster that it is, Was passionately and even forcefully imposed on churches by the musicians themselves (I was one of them) wanting "their God given gifting" expressed to serve God in the way they would like. No person has ever come to Christ through instrumental music anyway, It's the truthful message of the word alone that saves a soul. There's those that would argue that point.
Fair enough, but it's gotten to the status of an ominous,laser lit, thundering spectacle with very stringent, legalistic, clicky pre qualifications as well.
Very much a distraction.
no one cancels christians like christians
Amen
Hey, gotta get to the front of that heaven line for that holy position they are entitled to. all that forgiveness and grace stuff is for everyone else.
As someone who has always had a passion for worship and desire to glorify God through my gifts, I often had this thought that “if only I could be doing what those artists are doing”. But the more I research and see, I think being behind the scenes with production is the way to do it. You get to do what you love and maintain a simple life. I appreciate your honesty about the good and the bad. At the end of the day the believers loyalty should be to Jesus not the Christian music industry or church “business”.
Glad you found what works for you and is fulfilling. Appreciate you watching
I have spent most of my life in the church culture and played guitar and bass in church for decades. My wife plays keyboards and sings. I was trying to find some points that you were wrong on so I could point them out, but to be honest, Nicky you pretty well nailed it. You gave an accurate and fair assessment. Lots of abuse and bad religious systems, but also lots of genuine Christian people that live out their faith in sincerety. Extremely well done.
Thank you for taking the time to check the video out.
Just found your videos. I've worked in secular and Christian music. You hit it right on the head.
As a Christian musician within the church
1. Not every church is this way
2. A vast majority of churches are
3. Many of the members are unaware thats going down
4. Those who are are working and praying for reform
5. That is not the spirit of Christ or true Christianity but rather big people with big egos acting more like pharisees than Christians
6. I believe change is coming and those doing it wrong will be exposed
Great video and great insight. I appreciate you!
Thanks much, Nicky V -- we in the Church need light and salt, and you provided it with this video. I pray God blesses you with success as you follow Him and bless His followers.
You are very kind. Thanks for watching
I am a Christian and a musician. But I come from a secular music background. So, I inject a lot creativity in my music. Highly shunned by the "community." So, I stopped caring what they think. Of course, I get no support. But I don't work for them. I work for Jesus. The most creative of all.
So how can other Christians support your art?
@@josh1v9 Most church going Christians have this mental block when it comes to creativity. They assume it comes from the enemy. They only believe music is inspired if it sounds like all the rest of the gospel music. They also tend to only like praise music. Truthful testimonies are shunned. It's the same reason most Christian movies are lame. Everything is safe & sterile. They don't reflect real life & what we actually go through. They're like after school specials. I write music that is more personal. The good & the bad. The struggle that we go through trying to follow Yeshua in this fallen world. I come from an art rock background. Where the music is a part of the painting. It sounds like the message. It could be light, it could sound dark. Wooooo. They're all for the light stuff. Throw some minor chords in and all of a sudden you're in league with the devil. It's childish. Tell them their doctrine has flaws & they'll throw you out of church. Don't disrupt the flow of the money. So, they won't support my art. But King David sang to the Father. It wasn't for a record contract.
Your perceptions are spot on. If you're ever in Eastern PA, you are very welcomed to have a beer with this Christian and her husband. We'll play music in the back yard.
Amen to that
My experience was not good.
I played in churches where the musicians weren't experienced seasoned musicians at all. At one church, the worship leader changed about every 6 or so months.
I was the only experienced musician who had played in bands professionally in every worship scenario.
More often than not, the songs were in a key that the worship leaders couldn't comfortably sing in..
The drummers didn't even know what a metronome was, and i got shamed for mentioning they should learn to play in time and hold the tempo..
I dealt with guitar players who were jealous because i was always being given the spotlight.
I didn't ask for any of it, and it made me regret ever giving any testimony about how i was saved..
Because every time, they begged me to join and help because i needed to have a "servants heart"..
I met a lot of really wonderful people, but at the same time, I was tormented by all that i previously mentioned.
The both sides of the coin. Hard to win sometimes for sure. I think it all comes back to human nature trying to be confined to a set of rules that it naturally doesn’t want to fit into. Also, love the “servants heart” phrase…prime Christianese. Haha
@NickyV I agree, i don't hold any grudge or contempt toward them at all. I got to meet so many people who can walk and chew gum at the same time. So I'm not complaining. It was a souring experience, but it made me stronger in the end.
LOL - oops, I really shouldn't laugh, since this is painfully true. Most smaller churches have horrible music and horrible musicians. Most are probably volunteers. Nothing like trying to sit in a church and squirm at the off key singing, or mix mash of volunteer music helpers. I'm stuck now, small churches are nice since they can be more personal, but then they are often weird, full of weird folks (controlling, stuck in their routines). And then big churches become a show and they have their stuck routines too. Just can't win. I think in real Bible / Jesus world, it really isn't about music performance at all, c'mon - can I hear an 'amen' from someone? Seriously - life is about true worship to the Lord through living a holy life, not about getting on stage and giving someone chills and goose bumps by the way we work the crowd. Just saying...
I've seen the same thing and often the people on the worship team with no musical back ground are the pastors wife or child. Or the wife of one of the leaders of the board. Often saying anything about them learning or getting some training musically is treated like blasphame and they are ready to stone you right then and there for saying it. But I would also say to seek God and he will show a path for you to use your talent he has given you.
@@vfam5860 Amen
I remember being a Christian in a rock band. The church needed us to be a Christian Rock Band. To play only church sanctioned events and crap like that. I always thought “Jesus was a carpenter, not a Christian Carpenter”. Did the church tell Jesus what, when, and how to build when he was a carpenter? There were so many examples of Jesus doing things with people the church didn’t approve of. I caught a lot of shit from the church for not submitting my extra curricular activities to their whims. I heard years later the head pastor secretly told everyone to not come see us perform. Because we were playing at the Local TexMex Bar n’ Grill.
Everyone needs to learn that organizations and people will let them down. Schools, teachers, the government, the DMV, churches, and Christians. We are all made of the same stuff.
Wow. Sounds about right though. Sorry you had to deal with that.
Eventually, people will let you down, but there does have to be some accountability somewhere, which seems to be a forgotten virtue of most people anymore. I understand that lacking responsibility has always been a thing with people, but social media has basically trained people on how to gaslight, re-engineer, a concept, and somehow blame the other person for it instead of actually looking at the issue as something worth debating.
@@brandonshuttleworth8374 Church people have no business telling you how to live your personal life. Period!
@@chuckfriebe843 i appreciate it when people with good intentions help you do the right thing. that’s the one thing i miss about being religious. talking with people about whether I am a good person or not. it can be beautiful when it’s done right.
but it can’t be a part of the leadership or business of a church. churches that last are like any organization that lasts. it’s a business with a hierarchy. the main deliverable of leadership is growth and sustaining revenue. i’m sure they honestly believe in Jesus. but their concerns are growth and revenue. not if the people are living good lives. my church protected sexual abusers. reputation is everything. protecting people is fine, as long as it doesn’t interfere with growth and revenue.
I auditioned for a successful Christian band in the early 90's. I had gotten saved and decided to leave the rock scene in Nashville (Yes Nashville had a rock scene even then! And there were some amazing bands back then, story for another time). I did not get the gig due to politics. I left the music industry altogether and stayed away for at least six years or more. I got tired of just the douchieness in and around the church music scene. I wasn't even that deeply involved in it, and it even I could see what was going on, and it was NOT Christ like, then you would think the church could. This and many other issues pushed me out of the church. I really do want to be a part of a church. I KNOW I loved Christ, but the hypocrisy is too much. I feel like to praise and worship section of the church has gotten out of control. I am there to hear the word of God, not to see a show and ego.
Thank you for sharing your story and experience. Appreciate you watching the video.
@@NickyV No worries! Thanks for the honesty!
Agree with you 100 percent about praise and worship music getting out hand. The problem comes in when you try and separate worship and praise as just being the music part of the service. The whole church service is praise and worship not just the music with the message (hearing God’s word) being the most important part. I’ve played in a couple different “Praise Bands” for several years and finally had enough of it. Now, I attend a church where the whole service is about God and lifting up Christ and we don’t even have a praise band. It’s definitely not about putting on a show it’s about worshiping God! My 2 cents worth!
@@donniep777 Right on!
I had the similar experience which cause me to go from playing on a worship team for 18 years in 4 diffrent churches, even being in the lead for more than half. To not even playing the guitar for over 12 years. Then God showed me what Grace really is and that I have to operate in Grace toward others. As a result I have been able to enter back into that world and play again with God giving me the Grace to tolorate and sometime minister to the issues that church music often presents. Seek God on this brother and he will make a path.
Thank you for taking the time and effort to share your experiences within the Christian music world. I appreciate your directness and honesty.
Appreciate you taking the time to watch the video!
Interesting. I was a traveling musician in the early seventies with a southern gospel group. We had plenty of diesel pushers on our tails. Holier than thou while in the venue then there’s the afterwards. It made me look at the business in a totally different way. And if you may ask? Commonplace.
Appreciate you checking the video out and sharing!
Yep, I played guitar about 2 years at a huge church. I was still gigging on Fridays and Saturdays so, sometimes it was ruff getting up in the mornings. I learned a lot about chords, more ambient sounds. It improved me as a guitarist. I saw my share of hypocrisy but, by and large, it was a positive experience. When I left they were upset. I just said if the Lord owns the cattle on thousand hills surely he can afford to pay a professional guitar player better😂
Thank you for sharing that. I haven’t had to deal with the budgetary issues thankfully but I’ve heard it’s definitely a problem.
@@NickyVmost playing at church is a volunteer position. Normally only the worship leader or choir leader gets paid. I’ve played at several churches with one being very large. They had 3 campuses and only the 3 worship leaders were paid. I’ve never played for money. I am a Methodist and no one gives a crap about someone having some beers. I’ve had a beer with our Pastor. Methodists are open and realistic. All of this crap that you see with the Baptist and southern Baptist are hypocrites and try to shame other people for what they call sins. They need to read the Bible and stop judging others.
@bks252 lol, yep. That is why you always take 2 Baptist with you a on fishing trip. If you take 1 he will drink all of your beer. You take 2 you got all the beer to yourself.
@@UncleDanBand64hahahahah
@user-lt6wy1eb7q Try it, it works.
You're the kind of guy that I wish more churches were full of! Real and raw. 👍
You are very kind. Never played in a church before but I’m sure that will happen at some point with one of those bands I was talking about towards the end. Thank you again for the kindness and checking the video out.
Like others, I very much appreciate you being open and honest. You have a far different perspective than many of us who have been on the inside .... being in praise bands ... seeing church become more of a 3 ring circus than actually serving Christ. I was fortunate to have had an almost decade long experience with a church whose pastor had been an evangelist. The cause of Christ is about "seeking and saving that which was lost." "The good shepherd leaves the 99 to go after the one." So when the cause of Christ is on the back burner, or maybe thrown out with the trash ... what remains? I dearly love entertainment. I have gotten so much from message songs. Cats In The Cradle haunted me. When I finally had a child, a son, I made sure I spent a lot of quality time with him. And it was due, in great part, to that song of Harry Chapin. The first time I heard Bridge Over Troubled Waters was when I was stationed in Germany back in 68 to 70. My friend wanted me to hear that song. I stood in the middle of his room like a statue .... taking every word sung along with the amazing music. With the CCM industry, in the early 80s, there were investors who saw Christian music as an untapped gold mine. They gave the edict to Christian songwriters, "We want no more I got saved you get saved too songs. Get commercial ... or get lost." Since reaching out to souls yet in darkness is the cause of Christ, they pretty much said, "Be like Judas ... who only cared about money and his own selfish wants." Many who became a part of the CCM machine were and are sell-outs. Like you stated, it is not fair to use blanket statements that cover everyone. But prior to the 80s, the songs we sang were the sacred hymns like "Look and Live, my brother live." There was nothing that appealed to the flesh, the carnal nature. There is so much more I could state .... and others could state. Church attendance began to drop off in the mid 80s. It was estimated that 30% of all professing Christ-followers no longer attended church. Fast forwarding to our times, that number has doubled. The early church .... maybe day one and shortly thereafter .... was about the cause of Christ, prayer, and about sacrificial love, which is charity. In that church I attended in the 70s, my car was smashed in on one side from an accident. One man in the church walked up to me, handing me the car keys to one of his cars. That is where the rubber meets the road .... so to speak. As an added note: I have been writing Christian message songs since the 70s. Since my songs do not at all fit within the realm of the CCM pigeon hole, I was never able to get anywhere with them. If you want to hear a few of them, drop me an Email at toddm7 at comcast dot net
Really appreciate you sharing your story and thoughts. Thank you for spending some time checking out the video as well. Best wishes to you and yours
As a life long christian and very willing to open up about it, I've made a conscious choice to not be involved with the christian music. When you take serving the lord and make a job out of it it changes things. I just want a relationship with Jesus. I stopped touring because I didn't like the person I was and didn't feel I was following Gods plan for my life. God closed that door and moved me somewhere else.
That’s amazing. Good for you and glad you found your path.
Very good comment. A paycheck is a very powerful thing. Although playing worship music seems like it could solve a lot of problems for me, I'm extremely suspicious that it could cause much BIGGER problems...
I suppose that god will honor your honesty. Perhaps, in future, you will look back and see good things that happened because of your decision. I was in that world, and later, good things happened. All that "proves" is that luck is the intersection of preparation and opportunity. Good luck to you!
You can’t serve two masters, as the good book says. Money is tricky…
We should serve the Lord no matter what field we are in. Whether you're a carpenter, biologist, athlete, teacher, pastor, musician...etc. We all make money at our set career. Nothing wrong with that. We should share the gospel and work unto his glory always!
I’ve been a Christian all my life, and this is accurate. There are wonderful, amazing people in the church and people I wouldn’t trust to take out my trash. But this is true of any group, organization, club, or gathering of people. The church is unfortunately not exempt from human nature. I appreciate that you cover both the good and the bad, rather than overemphasizing one or the other.
Spot on man. Find me one group of perfect people on this earth. The churches issue seems to be they put restrictions on human nature and you can’t put peoples natural inclinations into a compartment that restrictive. Now put musicians in the mix and it’s gets real colorful haha.
Appreciate you checking the video out and the comment.
This exactly. On the rush issues, I will say that it IS an issue, and can be beyond annoying, but I generally chalk it up to folks being pulled many different directions, including their family priorities.
While there are bad people in every group, but the PR image that currently stands for the church is quite accurate. I had thought the people were being a little too hard on it, but I dedicated myself to serving several churches, and I found that people are more interested in saying the right things, and being around the right people, then actually doing the right thing.
Those are God's "restrictions" brother. Sometimes they are perverted by men and religion.
As a lifelong atheist, I would have a great difficulty accepting so many technicalities. Would it not be just as holy to obey the Ten Commandments, then there would be no need for interpretation?
I have mad respect for you in this video. I really appreciate your objective yett thoughtful words of the Christian music, well actually the whole community. I would say the number one ingredient you could say about those who are great to work with is they have a spirit of humility. Which seems to be absent in a lot of the others. I was once deemed worthy of the club, and had a moral failure and was sidelined. Everything you said is true
Appreciate you checking the video out and sharing your experience.
First, let me say as a connoisseur of all kinds of music that southern gospel, pure straight southern gospel is such a unique music genre. It just holds a very special place. Second aren’t casting stones at those cast stones?!?! Third some of the greatest music ever recorded and known to mankind has come out of some great conflict that people ultimately ended up hating each other! When you have two alpha males and a band, whether it be David Lee Roth and Eddie Van Halen or Axl Rose and slash or Steven Tyler and Joe Perry, you mentioned Lynyrd Skynyrd and they were notorious they had brawls they used to walk out on stage with black eyes and bruises! I mean these guys would come to blow literally in the recording studios when the dust set and they all picked herself up off the floor there’s some great music come out of that…
There is definitely some magic in the chaos at times. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and checking the video out!
I've been trying to bust into the Gregorian chant scene for awhile but it's a bit cliquey. Cheers Nicky!
You and me both brother. Been practicing my neume reading just in case the call comes in.
I did a little ccm before it was called ccm in Nashville in the 90’s. I noticed that it was fraught with the same problems that the rest of Nashville had. Money b money and Folks b folks I reckon. But I do give thanks to God EVERYDAY for my Sunday morning gig. Great church, great people, great gig.
Love hearing that you have a good gig now. Thank you for watching.
I started out in the early 70's working in churches voluntarily until I was paid to be a Music Director professionally. Times have certainly changed and I now feel at the bottom of the chain of talent that is out there now. Some churches require stringent standards for their music teams and others welcome outsiders. I feel if you are professing Christianity, you should be one but you should make others welcome in the process. It is a fine and hard line to legislate and we are terrible judges as we are all sinners. One thing I know to be true---when you have found the Perfect Church to join, when you you join it, it is not perfect anymore! God bless! 😊
Played drums for a charismatic church for a few years and man did I get some chops. 2-3 hour worship services, single songs that went for 30 minutes and blood on the snare drum. Never had another gig where I had to remember to bring band-aids! Also got slightly better at dancing heh
Love this! All you cats that come from that are powerhouses.
"charismatic"...nicely put.
@@RobertFairweatherLuvMachine “really energetic non-denominational“ seemed wordy.
Keyboardist here. One congregation where I used to play was charismatic, and I know what you mean about the songs. Many times I was ready to wrap up the song before anyone else was.
Blood on my bass strings. Fun times!
It’s not about the Christian music so much or going to church all the time. It is about a personal relationship with Jesus and receiving Salvation. I’m not interested in being churchy. I am a lot like the disciples, strong in my faith but a little rough around the edges. Praise Jesus and thank Him everyday
Love that. I’m a deist that never felt the need for others when it came to my own beliefs but I’m glad organized religion is there for those who it really helps. I’m with ya on the rough around the edges haha.
Thanks for watching
@@NickyV My take - just straight up Bible, Jesus - personal relationship with God that is real, not fake or a double life. God will lead, guide, protect and give a peace unlike nothing else. Church is supposed to help people, but the way it is now - not so much, at all. We do home church with my family, and if I can find a good one to actually connect with then I'm all in. Sorry - I know people will throw stones. I do love Jesus with all my heart and all that is in me (and love people too). Everyone I'm around knows that I'm a Christian and I don't live a fake life. I want to bless people and I'd like to bless Nicky V. in some tangible way - but since we're broke and may have to sell our house, then at this point I'm opting to keep praying for Nicky V., and I'm so blessed (Christianeze) by the way he helps and inspires (way more than most Christian folk are doing right now - wow).
@@vfam5860 Appreciate you. Thank you for the kind words and no need for anything tangible. I'm happy you found what works best for you and your loved ones.
There are many real Christian musicians who have been pushed or alienated out of "churches" because they were both sincere Believers and dedicated to praising the Father. They are often attacked by leadership if that leader perceives them as some sort of competitive threat even when the musician isn't competitive and just wants to be part of the team and will take on any role. (Edit: I'm not addressing those who can't really play, I mean at least moderately good musicians).
I wrote a 23 page essay on the state of worship/ church music. I had a lot of ideas and thoughts regarding the subject, that no one seems to want to discuss
That doesn't surprise me. Many churches are social clubs with an agenda unfortunately.
where can we read it?
Lmao
Put up a link and share it.
Is there any way you could reduce it to 21 pages?
Why do so many people work for a church anyway? I think we as a Christian body need to shift our focus away from this performance-based, entertainment-driven church. I love excellence and well produced music, but often music is promoted way too far out of a region to generate money or because of a need to be recognized. I am from Switzerland and have a heart for all nations to produce and sing their songs to God. "Every tongue will confess" not only the Western American tongue... But all we sing are English songs from the big names... or we translate them. I would love to hear some new Christian music in the global church that is regional and born from local people.
I’ve worked on a lot of Christian music that’s not in English and it’s really interesting. I have no idea what they are saying (unless the producer gives me kind of an overview of the message) but without knowing what’s being said, I can still feel the passion in it and try to channel that into something creative to help serve their song the best I can. To me it solidifies music knowing no language and no boarder.
Thank you for sharing and spending some of your time watching the video!
Lots of "Christians" aint walkin' THE Walk.
Thats IN the Church IN the Industry...IN the workplace.
Scary verse ...
I NEVER KNEW YOU.
"People say they don't want to go to church because it's filled with hypocrites...
... there's always room for one more..."
😊😊😊
Your close to Michael W. Smith down there. Stryper is the bomb. Slow Train A'Comin is the best Christian alnum ever made. 3:44
CCM was way better before mega churches took over. Rich Mullens, Keith Green, Early Michael W Smith and Steven Curtis Chapman. Throw in some dc Talk and a bunch of other Rock Bands that were actually playing on the radio. Now I just listen to cd’s. I’m listening to Stryper, Theocracy, Chaotic Resemblance and Disciple just to name a few. Some secular bands are clean enough too
Right on! Thanks for watching.
I've never quite understood the term "Christian music." It sounds sorta like "Christian grocery store," or "Christian gas station," or "Christian investment banking," or "Christian traffic light." It reminds me of a billboard I used to see here in the rural Ohio county where I live - it was an ad for a home builder company called "Cross Builders." It had big picture of a crucifix. To me it looked like a shameless sales pitch - blatantly usurping a religious image to promote a for-profit private enterprise. Nothing illegal about it, but I wouldn't trust somebody who does something like that.
It's not about selling something. Praise music or gospel music is about wishing God. It's about making a joyous noise to the Lord. That ties back into my previous comment. I am lay praise music for me to praise God and glorify God not try to "convince " you of my personal beliefs or relation with Jesus. This is exactly why I never pursued christian music for a financial gain.
@@WhiteWolfEFX I get it. And I can appreciate that. But Christian music on a radio station is about selling something. Its either the belief structure, or its all sorts of other stuff to Christians who tune in because they like to listen to that music. And the billboard in the county where I live for "Cross Builders" was certainly trying to sell something.
But since you mentioned it, I'll ask you about this. You said you sing praise music to "glorify God." That's another expression I've never understood. How does a human "glorify" God? The glory of God is due to his own inherent nature. Its not something a human can heap onto, or dress God up with. So what exactly does it mean to "glorify" God. I think what is meant is "to praise" or "show honor towards" God, but its a misuse of the word. To glorify something is to give it glory or imbue it with glory. Humans do none of those things in relation to God. In fact, it works quite the other way around. Glory resides in and with God, and emanates from God.
I know there is a long tradition of using the word that way, but there are long traditions of other things too - and it doesn't always make them right.
@@anthonypanneton923
I have never commented on a RUclips video before, and I am not the one who you posed this question to, but if I may give my perspective……. To “Glorify God” does not imply that a human is adding anything beneficial to what or who God is. To glorify god, to my understanding, means giving Him the recognition for what one might otherwise take credit for themselves. It might be thought of as an antonym to pride and boasting of one’s deeds.
@@brandonmills112 In other words, all is "by the grace of God." But words have meanings.
The issue is that the actual English language words do imply something else. They have simply been misused in this religious context for so long (centuries) that people take for granted that they mean something different in this context. Some of that is the result poor translation of the bible by medieval scholars from older Latin and Greek texts, which themselves (in the case of old testament books) were not in their original language.
I agree with your analysis of the intended meaning of the phrase - to acknowledge, to praise, to recognize the grace, omnipresence, and benevolence of God.
@@anthonypanneton923 Well said.
Theres nothing better than a christian living life by example that is the best church there is.
Spot on.
Yup!
Without music life would be (a bit) dull . Many of us who really love music know that for sure . Well , over the years , we have come to realize that a couple of really talented fellows, Randy Stonehill and Phil Keaggy , are very much likened to the Lennon and McCartney of the Contemporary Christian Music World ... great songwriters !
I come from both worlds. I grew up playing 70’s and 80’s hard rock and then came to faith when I was 19 (I played in bars underage up here in Canada). Then I played in church for over 30 years and we never got paid. I’ve experienced all the bad stuff especially your 3rd point. Lots of toxicity in the culture but I also met some fabulous people and met my wife at church. I’m done with doing worship music regularly for now at least and I’m back playing out in a variety of venues playing a number of styles. I really appreciate your video. It’s great to shed light on both the good and bad in the Christian community.
You have excellent content overall and I appreciate your honesty. Thanks
When we get to heaven, do you think everything will sound like a Strymon? 😅
Lord I hope so....I need that Trem Delay for eternity.
@@NickyVand the cloudburst!!!
@@bleepblabloop lollll
I was a worship leader for 30 yrs never got pd for doing it God was always faithful though, even if sometimes people weren’t, flawed people serving a perfect God. I’ve heard it said “ we are the only army that shoots its wounded “
Worship leaders should not be new Christians. They should be theologians and know exactly what they're singing.
Music in church seems to be a point of contention, some want the old hymns, some want it to be contemporary while others like country styles. If that’s why they are at church then they are worshipping the music and not the Savior. When we get to Heaven we will all be singing a new song. Don’t let yourself get tripped up, music is a form of worship but the Word is where wisdom is found.
The problem with Christian music today its all band worship. There’s always people in the spotlight every Sunday. Most people in the pews just kind of mouth the words. When we were singing hymns people were more involved as a congregation. Nowadays it’s more me and I type music… Repeat the same line while the drums build up build up and play up on peoples emotions. I hear the same six or seven songs every Sunday and it gets loathsome. I’ve always heard that we need to incorporate people with talents for whatever musical instrument but it’s never engaged. It’s always keyboards electric guitars drums that’s it. We don’t hear hymns anymore the backbone of the church as far as music goes… Music that had progression and thought. All I hear today are songs that repeat the same verse 17 times and it gets old. I never hear the doxology. We’ve gotten rid of hymns all for just bringing people in for convenience in the pews. It’s really sad. I wonder if we sang some hymns on a Sunday how many people will get up and walk out. And don’t forget your coffee cup on the way out.
You mean church musicians get paid? I played in church worship bands for 20 years, never was paid.
I really like your honesty. I will pray that you find a way to worship the creator rather than the creation (your music) for in the creator you will find the greatest music you have ever played. If you think you have already played that music then you may as well stop now because you have no where to go. God bless you. As for church; it has humans in it! Join the ranks and become like your friends a shining light to those around you. I see you potential. May His shalom peace rain down on you.
What you described could be applied to church staff as well. Some weird stuff goes on. It takes a lot out of you to work on a modern church staff (in any role).
I once attended a church where the pastor had been in radio. When he converted, he was really excited to get out of all the backbiting politics of his secular radio station to work at a Christian station where he thought it would be all love and grace and forgiveness. Instead, it was much worse. The reason was that everyone was expecting everyone ELSE to be loving and forgiving to THEM rather than expecting themselves to act that ways to others. At the secular station it was restrained a little by a sense of professionalism. So it was really toxic. The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill podcast shows how churches can go really haywire when there's size and numbers and money and celebrity in the mix.
This is spot on. There’s a built in leverage on the church side it seems.
I appreciate this comment as radio guy, who thought about Christian radio for a minute, and avoided it for the same reasons I’ve been seeing in most Christian churches nowadays. It’s mostly a show. I am much more effective in my standard roles, where you can actually be a human, not a machine. it’s just a parallel sanitized version of pop culture.
my biggest issue with "christian" music, is not the personal lives ect....its the cookie cutter formula that nobody seems to see/notice. its as if someone said OK, heres the three main ingredients....1 distilled U2 droning, repetative guitar has to be in ALL the music, allong with etherial echo to induce a trancelike state 2 must say JESUS in places where it doesnt naturaly fit, simply because there is a space that MUST be occupied with something, and HEY, as long as we say the name JESUS, its automaticaly christian. 3 the singer MUST have a "tired/defeated" tone to his/her voice, in order to convey the idea that the person has really come through some battles...but survived..... the troubble with it is that the B.S. meter is always pegging in the red. you cant fool the spirit in mankind. in essence...its as if the artists simply have no desire to birth music out of inspiration, but merely a "winning formula". i dont know, maybe im just the odd man out?
You assessment is spot on.
I'm not a technical music minded person, but all I know is CCM now is all rubber stamp and boring. There is a God / Jesus / Bible, and what we see on the stage today (blue lights / smoke / hands raised, and very excited and emotional people dancing around) is something that benefits the person playing more than anything else - all just a show, my take.
I am a worship leader and over the whole music program at my church. But I am also in a country band that plays shows not related to worship music at all. So having my feet in both worlds, I really apprecitate your thoughts on the bad and good of the modern worship scene. It's really enlightening and beneficial to listen to everyones experiences. Preciate you and your honesty on this topic!
Thank you for checking the video out and the kind words!
Know more than one person who became a "Christian" musiician only to find out that the scene was just as sleazy and drug filled as the non Christian music scene
About the only remotely Christian Music song I’ve ever heard that I really liked is Via Dolorosa . Frankly , I dont think it matters what you listen to as long as it’s not blatantly Satanic - and yes, there is that out there. But do really think God objects to Black Sabbath’s War Pigs lyrics? Read the lyrics - more relevant today than when it came out. Pop culture is merely a reflection of people and their cultural experience- plenty of well meaning , good messages in regular secular music . Alcohol is legal , but it doesn’t mean you’re supposed to get blind drunk every time you have a drink - get my point?
Spot on with everything you said. Thanks for sharing
@@NickyV Yea , man - I dig your content . Look forward to seeing more.
Cheers!
Christian music has always been a BIG BUSINESS moneymaker!
Indeed
I didn't even watch the video I read the title and and clicked on it to comment you want to meet me in the parking lot right now to throw down I'll kick your ass while listening to Zoe girl
Sometimes its not about drinking a beer it could be the way you dress or control the way you play your instrument i never got paid
Thx Nicky, ya I use to work with a friend doing Word records and southern gospel as well. One time was working with Jimmy Buffets manager and he would say you christian record people always want everything and never want to pay for it. He was mostly right , but It was tough at times having to get enough money from record label to finish a project. Sadly now, so much less money going around for those same mid grade records.
The era of cocaine budget records is definitely over. Things are steep…lots of people to pay when it comes to making a record. Thank you for sharing your story and checking the video out.
I got my start in my dad's church, went on to play in a lot of clubs in the NY/NJ area back in the 90's, then back to CCM and worship and being an occasional opening act for big name CCM artists of the day. Currently working on my second studio album that has a lot of country rock vibes to it. Latest release was all original worship. Been a worship leader many times at many different churches over the years, but the freedom of being an indie artist is second to none. Since I have a regular job, I am not dependent on music for income, so I don't have to worry about answering to anyone. :) Win win. Great video, and man do I have some stories I could share, but I'll keep them vested for now. :)
Nice! Glad you found a path that’s working for you. Appreciate you watching
There is Christian music and then there is worship bro ;) sometimes they overlap perhaps. The kindness comes when its true worship. God Bless
Love that
I have heard, "The good lord respects you when you wrok, but he loves you when you sing." I have found that singing helps when I work, no matter the task. When your work is making music...now there's the sprinkles on the icing on the cake!
Very true. Feel like I’m getting away with something everyday
Remember, we play music, not work music, to quote Mr. Eddie Van Halen…
Former Christian artist turned atheist here... We referred to them as "Casting Crap". I got caught smoking with half the crew. It was bullshit.
Hahaha right on
Exactly! Same here. Best thing I ever did was to walk away from Christianity, where I wanted to do away with myself because I couldn't measure up. Now, I truly live a life of freedom and not burden.
@@chuckfriebe843 Totally been there! I'm not saying that depression completely disappeared upon deconversion. But it was pretty close to it. I've always had diagnosed clinical depression. To the point where I didn't take care of myself for months at a time and not eating or sleeping for days on end. The afore mentioned Christian band was dropped from our label, both my parents passed, messy divorce, and about ten more things potentially as painful. Just realized I'm poor mouthing. Sorry 'bout that. So, I would start involuntarily sobbing uncontrollably. Even in public. BTW, boohooing in the midst of Wal-Mart will awkwardly alienate folks with a quickness! Tried every, literally every type of treatment I could find. Nothing worked... especially Jesus. Sorry again for rambling, but anyway; The moment I decided to rip off the "Christian Band-Aid", threw out the "church crutches" and announced to all my (almost exclusively Christian) friends, family and acquaintances that I had embraced atheism, an immense melancholy was lifted. And, as per usual, I was instantly "ex-communicated, shunned and tactlessly questioned by all but two of my literally hundreds of afore mentioned relationships. Many of which stooped as low as throwing my deceased parents "inevitable disappointment, shame and crippling despair" in my face to "humble me into returning to the faith". That was a few years ago. Since then, I have been a thousand percent happier than I've been my entire life. I seldom if ever cry now. Far more positive, far less stressed. Not to mention the complete lack of guilt I used to obsess over. Jesus H. Christ am I oversharing. My bad. Guess I needed to vent a bit. Thanks again, and sorry if I wasted your time.
allot of kids need to educate themselves, becuase they dont understand that the chritain music industry isnt just yes and amen and thank you jesus, its a forprofit business like any other business. just because is has the word chritain in it doesnt mean it always be fair or god worthy. business is business, regarless if your christain or not.
Spot on!
I grew up with a father who listened to Prog Rock like Yes and then Rush, The Police, SRV, etc. There's some good stuff out there, but it takes some digging. For some reason, U2 has had a disproportional influence on much of Christian Music. There's some good stuff out there, but commercialization has killed the authentic soul of a lot of it, and has neglected to care for the people involved. Enjoyed the video.
Edge is CCM guitar 101 for sure. Appreciate you watching!
Way to make me all sappy this morning, Hines. We sure do love you and the fresh approach you bring to SOGO music. You are the best thing Steve ever did. Love you big!
PS - Hallelujah ride the train 🔥
Blahahaha “Hallelujah Ride The Train” (2nd grade Nicky walking to principals office confused).
Love you Jess
I am a Christian but I don’t listen to ANY CCM music at all. I also play electric guitar at my church every week in front of 450-600 people. It’s all about what’s in your heart and using your gifts to help facilitate worship in song. I think my church is probably an anomaly as we still use real drums, amps, monitors; no tracks, hardly any synthetic instruments. We are deeply steeped in old timey hymns but we still play a lot of modern stuff. We mix it all together. No one is paid but we have a few people who are or have been involved with Berklee school of music- a retired dean plays B3 organ and one of the singers is a vocal instructor and the one of the drummers is also a vocal instructor. It’s multigenerational and very supportive. It’s much more of a music production balanced with a real Christian fellowship with a jam session. I myself grew up playing non-commercial punk and hardcore, so I guess I just see through the fake stuff and I fit in well with an environment like this. We’ve had more than a few of the folks you describe as the ‘bad’ and I think over time, they are weeded out graciously, usually by their own choice.
All very well said. Appreciate you sharing your thought and taking the time to listen to me ramble on for a bit. The bad do have a way of filtering themselves out…thankfully
Hi, I liked this video and the one on guitar tone....Mark 12:34: ...'You are not far from the kingdom of God. 👍👍
Thanks for the listen!
You HAVE to check out KINGS KALEIDOSCOPE.
Im telling you man, they are making amazing, complex, thoughtful, authentic music and are explicitly Christian.
Please check them out man. I would recommend the album ZEAL.
Nice! I’ll have to do that
Humans are the biggest hypocrites. No matter our beliefs we always find a way for our culture to get in the way. Why can't we just not worry about what others think of us and just enjoy the parts of us we like and pray for the parts of us we hate? All music is beautiful and is a gift to the human soul!
God bless the "Hellions" for being real.
a lot of the time the church one attends adds to what the scripture says about behavior, a good example is drinking alcohol, the scripture say not to get drunk, it doesn't say you can't have a glass of wine, beer. The scripture also says not to do something that would cause your brother to stumble, so if I am going out to eat and I know I might cause some who sees me to stumble if they see me drinking beer or glass of wine, I won't drink it, not because its sin but because I don't want to stumble. If the organized church would stick to the scripture instead of their doctrine, things would be much better and people would not get hurt. We Christians are no better or worse then anyone else, we just follow Jesus, not perfect at all
Very very well said. Appreciate the comment and you taking the time to share your thoughts.
Bruh. You said music emergencies. No comment from me… I’m just here listening 😬🙏🏽
Hahah ya it’s unfortunately a thing
GREAT VID!! I'm a Christian musician and would love a demo vid on improving guitar chording and being creative with modern Christian music. Thank you for your candor - we can learn from it!
That’s a good idea. Might do a video along the lines of “freshen up your CCM guitar parts” or something like that
Thanks for a good report. I left the CCM world more than 25 years ago. It made no sense to me to turn a ministry into show business. Also mixing Christianity with politics turned me off. I'm happily making music in the acoustic coffee house and open mic world, and occasionally toss in a gospel/spiritual song. I like the Johnny Cash quote found in the comments.
Basically you just described people....Christians, non-Christians, atheists, etc. Some you like and some are dicks. The hard pill to swallow is to do like Joe Cocker said, "learning to live together". I think some of of us bear GOD;s image better than others....anyway, great vid
Agreed
Thanks for watching
Got to stay on the straight and narrow if your gonna talk the talk, walk the walk.
Wow. This video isn't just about the Christian music industry, this is commentary on religious institutions (not religion) as a whole. Spirituality is a wonderful thing but it's always the institutional dogma that ruins it.
I’m a deist that kind of likes doing my own thing independent of any institution and for the most part agree with you on that. The organized aspect of it definitely helps a lot of people. Thankfully it’s a choice for most. Thanks for watching!
This is interesting and maybe it’s just different in Franklin and/or Brentwood, but I’ve eaten with plenty of Christian performers and they’ve enjoyed a couple of beers or a couple of glass of of wine or mixed drinks with dinner when we are in the Nashville area.
There are a lot of Christian bands who keep beer, wine, and liquor on the bus too. That said, I don’t see people drinking in public on tour (hired guns and crew do, but not the artists themselves) and I’ve never seen folks smoke weed or use any other drugs around anyone. Of course, lots of folks smoke weed and there are several artists who have had addiction issues that a label kept under wraps.
I’ve never seen folks intoxicated in public either. In private? Sure, but never in public; for the same reason you mention here -they’d be completely blackballed from earning a living.
Major label Christian music is a really weird world for sure though.
It’s very strange. I never see beers on session in any genre/scene. On buses it’s all over the map. My last gig was a country gig and they did their partying back in the 90s so it was unfortunately a dry bus. Was on another gig that was a bit less secular and they drank like fish. Seems to just depend on the boss.
I’m 40 years removed from the CCM scene, although I do lead the music in the early mass at my parish and very little of what I do there resembles CCM today. That said, I think the South Park episode spoofing CCM carries a bit of truth….in the same way Spinal Tap rings true with a lot of secular musicians.
Love the truth in parody. Appreciate you checking the video out!
I was raised in church and believe in God. Although I've been a hellyen started in radio 1979 including night club DJ from sarasota to Cincinnati. My opinion and observations only when I first meet someone and right off jump they tell me their Christian my experience that becomes a train wreck. I want to hang with good people that follow the 10 commandments...frankly they don't have to be a 100 percent believer just good people. Sadly you're video post is and has been my thoughts for many years. Great post In fact I'll have to look back I think I've caught a couple of your youtube vids... keep them coming
I’m with you on that one. Good people and bad people on both sides of the coin…and a whole bunch in the middle. Appreciate you commenting and checking the video out.
You have such an insightful and balanced view on your channel. Thank you for you views!
You are very kind. Thank you for watching!
Great insights, man. My main complaint is the sappy and shallow creative style. Not that the more creative stuff doesn't exist, but it mostly gets shoved to the background.
I totally get that. Thank you for watching
20 year church drummer.....dude I have some serious stories I could add to this topic, ranging from the preacher screwing his secretary to all the musicians being hung over on Sunday morning. Don't get me wrong, my closest friends are my church music friends. They are great people and I am fortunate to play with some people that we keep it real with each other. But it's been a ride.
Right on man. Appreciate you checking the video out!
Thanks for your work in the Christian music scene. Do you believe in Jesus? Don't forget to make him your Lord and Savior. Draw near to God and hear what he wants to say to you. He has a plan for you.
I believe in Jesus’s father, a creator, the divinity within and what’s around us, as well as a finely tuned universe and taking care of the people around me. That’s kind of my way of going about it/belief system.
Appreciate you checking the video out.
To quote the great Christopher Hitchens (lol Im a Christian) : "We're all liars and hypocrites"
What a quote haha
I think it was Sam Kenison who said "I love the Lord, but I don't trust some of the people he's got working for him."
What a great quote
I never really hated the church when I left. It’s not like they were rude. There was this sense they thought I owed them something. And maybe I thought they owed me something. When it comes down to it, the church is just like any other business. Run by any other people. The problem is how much they talk about being nice and helping others. It makes you think it extends to people who donate years of their life to the church. But once you aren’t of value to them, they have a dozen people to take your place.
I think we all just try to get what we want from others. I’m not saying that to be mean. I’m just saying that it gets hard when the message is giving, and everyone just acts normal. It’s like my daughter’s friend who spent the whole time talking about the environment and gay rights at my daughter’s birthday party. It was all about how important the friend was to the cause. And then she wanted the first piece of birthday cake.
I know not everyone at church is like that. But they are the ones who you hear from the most. The ones who leave the bad taste in your mouth when you leave.
Very very well put. A lot of people are just self absorbed and it’s part of human nature. Hard to ignore it sometimes.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and checking the video out
Christian artist here! And one looking to potentially make a move to Nashville in the future. This is really great info to know! There are unfortunately hypocrites everywhere and in every sphere of society. It definitely is highlighted more when you’re literally singing one thing and living another.
Either way, I feel like based on what you talked about, the good outweighs the bad. Thanks for the video! I really enjoy your content, man! Keep it up!
Couldn't agree more. Thank you for checking the video out and your thoughtful feedback.
6:15 uh Fleetwood Mac, rumors tho
First of all; good video man and I love that Gibson version that's sitting on your lap,Don't see those too often. 2nd As a christian musician myself, A lot of Christians that are in the Christian music scene are not in the Christian world as well, Their conversion is somewhere else, not 100% christian. It appears that Christians that are really honest,
are controlled by the industry.Where as christians that are contrary , make better lyrics, really weird.
That’s interesting. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and checking the video out
Rock on, brother. As a Christian (who came into playing Pdub from the hard rock club life), I have seen some of those things you mentioned (especially when I was playing the whole megachurch thing). It's pathetic. I've learned that God is God. People are people. People complicate things and complicate the lives of other people. I finally found a nice little church (where I adamantly play as a volunteer and will not take a dime from my church) and they are awesome. Great people who generally care. It's been rubbing off on me a bit, haha. Just wanted to say, though, Be YOU. Only. I'm out of Hater-Aid currently, and all I see is a fellow musician. I totally appreciate your honesty. This is an anti-rant. :) Rooting for you!
One thing I'll add is that - as a rocker and former absolute hater of all things God (I was THAT guy) who felt God's call directly and became changed - I do think that Christian musicians who have only known Christian music are missing out on a TON of great tunes and artists to emulate. But that's just my opinion.
Hi , I'm from Thailand. I can see your point there. it's always good to talk about issues that we sometimes don't talk about it in church. In asia mostly musicians are volunteer and yes we will need to at least meet biblical standard in some point. I was on music industries and also I currently only on worship ministry for almost 30 years now. here we have others issues .thanks for your thought it does helpful for many Christian musicians.
If a community can’t find it in themselves to forgive someone, then it’s not a Christian community no matter how many times they try to say otherwise. I’m sick and tired of the weaponizing of Jesus. Just done. Zero tolerance for those who distort the Bible or use it as a prop.
Truth. Appreciate you taking the time to comment and watch the video.
Another thing that would most likely really upset the controlling disingenuous people in this community - not the normal kind people - is in all likelihood Jesus was black or maybe middle eastern ethnicity! The Vedic teachings I follow also put all Jesus’s power and abilities squarely at mother divines feet from which all of that came from. People freak out when ‘the story’ turns out to be different in any way from what’s been drilled into the day and night. Ok I’ll stop not trying to rant but more like say hey there are way different ideas out there,
Agreed. My personal ideas probably don’t align with most major religions…if I took a Facebook quiz I’d probably just be a deist. I just try to stay respectful of whoever I work with and also work on a bunch of non Christian but religious music. If it helps people I’m all for it.
A Hellion?...I doubt that. Your vibe is being laid back so that's why you're accepted so well. This was a great topic.
Raised plenty of hell lol but that’s probably relative. Appreciate your kind words and thanks for watching
Agreed.
My favorite meme for Christian guitarists is the one with The Edge standing with his guitar saying
“Hey worship guitarists,… you
you’re welcome! “
Hahaha spot on
Now that you mention it, a lot of it really does sound like a mediocre U2 song.
A great thing about playing in church is; you play for a sober audience and with sober musicians!! That's big. But you seldom get to stretch out on your instrument, that's part of it.
I was exposed to CCM in the late 70s... 2nd Chapter of Acts (Mansion Builder), Amy Grant, Randy Stonehill, Keith Green, etc. Whether Christian or not, the music industry is still the music industry and as such can be completely cutthroat. However, there are also a lot of amazing, wonderful, and devoted Christians who are part of the industry. People need to learn that God is truly loving without condemnation. Jesus didn't condemn anyone. While he did tell them to move on from their ways, he didn't confuse the person with the acts. Pastors who fall from grace are a part of life, no matter how they fall from grace. Remember, churches are a hospital for sinners and not a harbor for saints.
This is great. Thank you for sharing. Love the last line as well
Funny how human hypocrisy always creates chaos, confusion, division, complication, and heartache. It's as if it were by design.
Too bad Believing musicians, and writers are relegated to the mess.
As a musician and writer, I chose to ignore the paradigm. I write as I am led and or am inspired, and let people decide, let GOD bless what is his.
So, in this new age I find that secular platforms , like Substack, allows me the freedom to do that. The non existence of attempting to please hypocrites, is incredibly stress free.
A major side issue with "Christian music" for me is also that it is directed towards believers and the "church" while effectively ignoring the world.
We are called to bring the gospel , the good news to the world, not play in an echo chamber.
The echo chamber is very true. A good example of it not getting out there is honestly my upbringing having zero clue who any Christian artist were and my friends from that world literally not being able to name one zeppelin song. Thank you for watching and sharing your thoughts!
“Love Offering!!” Haha…I caught that. I really enjoyed your insight and perspective. Thanks for sharing the bad AND the good.
Hahaha you got it, thanks for watching
I like your honesty.
So much to say, put no good words to say it all. Nicky V is no better or worse than the Christians that surround him. As a child of God, Nicky V has a responsibility to speak out about the good, the bad and the ugly. There is a lot of ugly in the Church and there is a lot of Good in the Church. Perhaps this whole topic revolves around priorities. Where is the top priority of a Christian life? It should be the same top priority of a Christian musicians life, as it should be the same priority of any Christian craftsman's life. The top rung of the priority ladder is Love God and Love people. Peoples ladders seem to be mixed up......mine too sometimes. Thanks for a worthwhile video.
You are very kind and thank you for sharing your thoughts. Appreciate you checking the video out as well.
You're not there for you or the music. You're there to come together and give to "the lord"
I pray a hedge of protection and traveling mercies upon your love offering 😅😂
Thanks for talking about the good alongside the bad. I know a few people in the music world there in Nashville, and they’re all genuinely awesome people. But I’ve been involved in churches that had everything you’re talking about going on. It’s gross.
Haha love the Chritianese. Definitely good and bad in every community. Appreciate you checking the video out!
:) At least they didn't say "on fire for the Lord". Sorry if this opinion offends anyone, but I detest that phrase. Partly because I had a bad experience with someone who said it, and partly because, to me, it sounds like someone's love for God is being reduced to something cheap.
Cliche' much?