In my humble opinion... In my over 50 years of drumming, having done pretty much every Genre and scenario, There is a much greater broader issue going on. The music/worship thing has become a religion/cult all it's own within churches edified to the status of a golden calf so to speak. That's what I have observed and I'm out and done. I likely will never play drums in church again. Honestly I have always felt uncomfortable with it all right from the start. I now attend a little church with a piano and organ which are never played together at the same time. The music is in its rightful place once again, far in the background as a thin layer under girding the most important thing.... the words of the songs and hymns clearly and easily heard, being absorbed directly by one's soul. No tyranny of PowerPoint etc... Simply glorious. The process that led to the monster that it is, Was passionately and even forcefully imposed on churches by the musicians themselves (I was one of them) wanting "their God given gifting" expressed to serve God in the way they would like. No person has ever come to Christ through instrumental music anyway, It's the truthful message of the word alone that saves a soul. There's those that would argue that point. Fair enough, but it's gotten to the status of an ominous,laser lit, thundering spectacle with very stringent, legalistic, clicky pre qualifications as well. Very much a distraction.
I have spent most of my life in the church culture and played guitar and bass in church for decades. My wife plays keyboards and sings. I was trying to find some points that you were wrong on so I could point them out, but to be honest, Nicky you pretty well nailed it. You gave an accurate and fair assessment. Lots of abuse and bad religious systems, but also lots of genuine Christian people that live out their faith in sincerety. Extremely well done.
As a Christian musician within the church 1. Not every church is this way 2. A vast majority of churches are 3. Many of the members are unaware thats going down 4. Those who are are working and praying for reform 5. That is not the spirit of Christ or true Christianity but rather big people with big egos acting more like pharisees than Christians 6. I believe change is coming and those doing it wrong will be exposed Great video and great insight. I appreciate you!
As someone who has always had a passion for worship and desire to glorify God through my gifts, I often had this thought that “if only I could be doing what those artists are doing”. But the more I research and see, I think being behind the scenes with production is the way to do it. You get to do what you love and maintain a simple life. I appreciate your honesty about the good and the bad. At the end of the day the believers loyalty should be to Jesus not the Christian music industry or church “business”.
I am a Christian and a musician. But I come from a secular music background. So, I inject a lot creativity in my music. Highly shunned by the "community." So, I stopped caring what they think. Of course, I get no support. But I don't work for them. I work for Jesus. The most creative of all.
@@josh1v9 Most church going Christians have this mental block when it comes to creativity. They assume it comes from the enemy. They only believe music is inspired if it sounds like all the rest of the gospel music. They also tend to only like praise music. Truthful testimonies are shunned. It's the same reason most Christian movies are lame. Everything is safe & sterile. They don't reflect real life & what we actually go through. They're like after school specials. I write music that is more personal. The good & the bad. The struggle that we go through trying to follow Yeshua in this fallen world. I come from an art rock background. Where the music is a part of the painting. It sounds like the message. It could be light, it could sound dark. Wooooo. They're all for the light stuff. Throw some minor chords in and all of a sudden you're in league with the devil. It's childish. Tell them their doctrine has flaws & they'll throw you out of church. Don't disrupt the flow of the money. So, they won't support my art. But King David sang to the Father. It wasn't for a record contract.
I think where people fail in their understanding of Christian music is that they think "Christian music" is a genre. For something to be Christian, it's the spirit behind the music, not the music itself. I believe all music comes from God. What differentiates this is the spirit behind it. Therefore, any style of music can be Christian.
Hey, gotta get to the front of that heaven line for that holy position they are entitled to. all that forgiveness and grace stuff is for everyone else.
Thanks much, Nicky V -- we in the Church need light and salt, and you provided it with this video. I pray God blesses you with success as you follow Him and bless His followers.
I come from both worlds. I grew up playing 70’s and 80’s hard rock and then came to faith when I was 19 (I played in bars underage up here in Canada). Then I played in church for over 30 years and we never got paid. I’ve experienced all the bad stuff especially your 3rd point. Lots of toxicity in the culture but I also met some fabulous people and met my wife at church. I’m done with doing worship music regularly for now at least and I’m back playing out in a variety of venues playing a number of styles. I really appreciate your video. It’s great to shed light on both the good and bad in the Christian community. You have excellent content overall and I appreciate your honesty. Thanks
Your perceptions are spot on. If you're ever in Eastern PA, you are very welcomed to have a beer with this Christian and her husband. We'll play music in the back yard.
You are very kind. Never played in a church before but I’m sure that will happen at some point with one of those bands I was talking about towards the end. Thank you again for the kindness and checking the video out.
I'm a pastor and have a son who is a touring guitar player in Nashville. I just discovered your channel and can't wait to dive in. I really appreciated this video. I'm not any sort of insider, I know only what my son shares with me. Based on what I know from a lifetime of serving as a pastor (I'm in my sixties now), and what my son tells me, your thoughts about working with Christians seems very fair to me. I really appreciated all of it. One thing never changes when it comes to Christians, they are finite people trying to express their love for an infinite God. The flaws and ugliness are bound to show through in different ways. I understand how some people can just be "over' the whole experience. Ultimately, God knows everyone's heart, He knows what's real and what's fake, who loves Him and who doesn't. I really appreciated you taking the time to make this post.
I’ve been a Christian all my life, and this is accurate. There are wonderful, amazing people in the church and people I wouldn’t trust to take out my trash. But this is true of any group, organization, club, or gathering of people. The church is unfortunately not exempt from human nature. I appreciate that you cover both the good and the bad, rather than overemphasizing one or the other.
Spot on man. Find me one group of perfect people on this earth. The churches issue seems to be they put restrictions on human nature and you can’t put peoples natural inclinations into a compartment that restrictive. Now put musicians in the mix and it’s gets real colorful haha. Appreciate you checking the video out and the comment.
This exactly. On the rush issues, I will say that it IS an issue, and can be beyond annoying, but I generally chalk it up to folks being pulled many different directions, including their family priorities.
While there are bad people in every group, but the PR image that currently stands for the church is quite accurate. I had thought the people were being a little too hard on it, but I dedicated myself to serving several churches, and I found that people are more interested in saying the right things, and being around the right people, then actually doing the right thing.
As a lifelong atheist, I would have a great difficulty accepting so many technicalities. Would it not be just as holy to obey the Ten Commandments, then there would be no need for interpretation?
25 yrs in Christian music. Thanks for sharing your truth. I searched Highway 96. Cool. Truth is, in 2024, The real broken remnant is scattered all out here. 😎
Way to make me all sappy this morning, Hines. We sure do love you and the fresh approach you bring to SOGO music. You are the best thing Steve ever did. Love you big!
My experience was not good. I played in churches where the musicians weren't experienced seasoned musicians at all. At one church, the worship leader changed about every 6 or so months. I was the only experienced musician who had played in bands professionally in every worship scenario. More often than not, the songs were in a key that the worship leaders couldn't comfortably sing in.. The drummers didn't even know what a metronome was, and i got shamed for mentioning they should learn to play in time and hold the tempo.. I dealt with guitar players who were jealous because i was always being given the spotlight. I didn't ask for any of it, and it made me regret ever giving any testimony about how i was saved.. Because every time, they begged me to join and help because i needed to have a "servants heart".. I met a lot of really wonderful people, but at the same time, I was tormented by all that i previously mentioned.
The both sides of the coin. Hard to win sometimes for sure. I think it all comes back to human nature trying to be confined to a set of rules that it naturally doesn’t want to fit into. Also, love the “servants heart” phrase…prime Christianese. Haha
@NickyV I agree, i don't hold any grudge or contempt toward them at all. I got to meet so many people who can walk and chew gum at the same time. So I'm not complaining. It was a souring experience, but it made me stronger in the end.
LOL - oops, I really shouldn't laugh, since this is painfully true. Most smaller churches have horrible music and horrible musicians. Most are probably volunteers. Nothing like trying to sit in a church and squirm at the off key singing, or mix mash of volunteer music helpers. I'm stuck now, small churches are nice since they can be more personal, but then they are often weird, full of weird folks (controlling, stuck in their routines). And then big churches become a show and they have their stuck routines too. Just can't win. I think in real Bible / Jesus world, it really isn't about music performance at all, c'mon - can I hear an 'amen' from someone? Seriously - life is about true worship to the Lord through living a holy life, not about getting on stage and giving someone chills and goose bumps by the way we work the crowd. Just saying...
I've seen the same thing and often the people on the worship team with no musical back ground are the pastors wife or child. Or the wife of one of the leaders of the board. Often saying anything about them learning or getting some training musically is treated like blasphame and they are ready to stone you right then and there for saying it. But I would also say to seek God and he will show a path for you to use your talent he has given you.
I have heard, "The good lord respects you when you wrok, but he loves you when you sing." I have found that singing helps when I work, no matter the task. When your work is making music...now there's the sprinkles on the icing on the cake!
I am a worship leader and over the whole music program at my church. But I am also in a country band that plays shows not related to worship music at all. So having my feet in both worlds, I really apprecitate your thoughts on the bad and good of the modern worship scene. It's really enlightening and beneficial to listen to everyones experiences. Preciate you and your honesty on this topic!
Like others, I very much appreciate you being open and honest. You have a far different perspective than many of us who have been on the inside .... being in praise bands ... seeing church become more of a 3 ring circus than actually serving Christ. I was fortunate to have had an almost decade long experience with a church whose pastor had been an evangelist. The cause of Christ is about "seeking and saving that which was lost." "The good shepherd leaves the 99 to go after the one." So when the cause of Christ is on the back burner, or maybe thrown out with the trash ... what remains? I dearly love entertainment. I have gotten so much from message songs. Cats In The Cradle haunted me. When I finally had a child, a son, I made sure I spent a lot of quality time with him. And it was due, in great part, to that song of Harry Chapin. The first time I heard Bridge Over Troubled Waters was when I was stationed in Germany back in 68 to 70. My friend wanted me to hear that song. I stood in the middle of his room like a statue .... taking every word sung along with the amazing music. With the CCM industry, in the early 80s, there were investors who saw Christian music as an untapped gold mine. They gave the edict to Christian songwriters, "We want no more I got saved you get saved too songs. Get commercial ... or get lost." Since reaching out to souls yet in darkness is the cause of Christ, they pretty much said, "Be like Judas ... who only cared about money and his own selfish wants." Many who became a part of the CCM machine were and are sell-outs. Like you stated, it is not fair to use blanket statements that cover everyone. But prior to the 80s, the songs we sang were the sacred hymns like "Look and Live, my brother live." There was nothing that appealed to the flesh, the carnal nature. There is so much more I could state .... and others could state. Church attendance began to drop off in the mid 80s. It was estimated that 30% of all professing Christ-followers no longer attended church. Fast forwarding to our times, that number has doubled. The early church .... maybe day one and shortly thereafter .... was about the cause of Christ, prayer, and about sacrificial love, which is charity. In that church I attended in the 70s, my car was smashed in on one side from an accident. One man in the church walked up to me, handing me the car keys to one of his cars. That is where the rubber meets the road .... so to speak. As an added note: I have been writing Christian message songs since the 70s. Since my songs do not at all fit within the realm of the CCM pigeon hole, I was never able to get anywhere with them. If you want to hear a few of them, drop me an Email at toddm7 at comcast dot net
I’ve had a lot of people reach out privately about this video. I was surprised at the positivity in the comments as well. Seems my friends weren’t the only ones going through it in this world
@@NickyV The eneny truly comes to steal,kill and destroy! He will use anyone and everyone to do that. Pride is a disgusting all raised up power now in these dayz, along with deception and manipulation...tools of the enemies trade. We have to be wise as serpants and gentle as doves....let no one mistake meekness for weakness!
Thank you for sharing and posting this video Nicky! Im thankful for 25+ yrs as a volunteer church musician and audio-video tech, with some stipends and 'love offerings' along the way. Ive probably had it much easier than career musicians. You're integrity, transparency, honor and wit are refreshing and valuable. I pray you have many blessings throughout your career!
As a Christian musician, my goal is to share God's love through music. I hope that the words and melodies uplift your spirit, filling your heart with joy and hope. The spirit of generosity displayed by the Christians you mention in this video reflects the very heart of Jesus.
Man, this is one of the best observations of that world that I've seen. And things that absolutely should be pointed out. Both the bad and the good. Thank you.
I have mad respect for you in this video. I really appreciate your objective yett thoughtful words of the Christian music, well actually the whole community. I would say the number one ingredient you could say about those who are great to work with is they have a spirit of humility. Which seems to be absent in a lot of the others. I was once deemed worthy of the club, and had a moral failure and was sidelined. Everything you said is true
Man, that's so good to hear. I've walked for years with a foot in the Christian and a foot in the secular. You're insight into the world of Christian music is spot on. I'll add that I was screwed with a wierd copywrite deal that is thankfully sorted now but that comes out of the control aspect of what you talk about. And yep, there are some very good people and I'm blesssed to know them.
Christian artist here! And one looking to potentially make a move to Nashville in the future. This is really great info to know! There are unfortunately hypocrites everywhere and in every sphere of society. It definitely is highlighted more when you’re literally singing one thing and living another. Either way, I feel like based on what you talked about, the good outweighs the bad. Thanks for the video! I really enjoy your content, man! Keep it up!
I remember being a Christian in a rock band. The church needed us to be a Christian Rock Band. To play only church sanctioned events and crap like that. I always thought “Jesus was a carpenter, not a Christian Carpenter”. Did the church tell Jesus what, when, and how to build when he was a carpenter? There were so many examples of Jesus doing things with people the church didn’t approve of. I caught a lot of shit from the church for not submitting my extra curricular activities to their whims. I heard years later the head pastor secretly told everyone to not come see us perform. Because we were playing at the Local TexMex Bar n’ Grill. Everyone needs to learn that organizations and people will let them down. Schools, teachers, the government, the DMV, churches, and Christians. We are all made of the same stuff.
Eventually, people will let you down, but there does have to be some accountability somewhere, which seems to be a forgotten virtue of most people anymore. I understand that lacking responsibility has always been a thing with people, but social media has basically trained people on how to gaslight, re-engineer, a concept, and somehow blame the other person for it instead of actually looking at the issue as something worth debating.
@@chuckfriebe843 i appreciate it when people with good intentions help you do the right thing. that’s the one thing i miss about being religious. talking with people about whether I am a good person or not. it can be beautiful when it’s done right. but it can’t be a part of the leadership or business of a church. churches that last are like any organization that lasts. it’s a business with a hierarchy. the main deliverable of leadership is growth and sustaining revenue. i’m sure they honestly believe in Jesus. but their concerns are growth and revenue. not if the people are living good lives. my church protected sexual abusers. reputation is everything. protecting people is fine, as long as it doesn’t interfere with growth and revenue.
You must have never been a member of "The Praise Team" I was for over 10 years, spent thousands of dollars on gear, a few thousand just traveling back and forth to church, for services and a weekly rehearsal, never got so much as a pat on the back or even a fake thank you, not to mention, they paid us nothing. It's OK, though, as I didn't ask to be paid money, I did it for the joy of serving my Lord Jesus. I don't regret any of it until the day I was forced to sign a contract or step down, I chose to leave.
Hi , I'm from Thailand. I can see your point there. it's always good to talk about issues that we sometimes don't talk about it in church. In asia mostly musicians are volunteer and yes we will need to at least meet biblical standard in some point. I was on music industries and also I currently only on worship ministry for almost 30 years now. here we have others issues .thanks for your thought it does helpful for many Christian musicians.
Such a great way of sharing your thoughts on that particular industry without the cynicism. Don’t see or hear that these days! I dabbled in both Christian and Country music projects as a songwriter/artist here in town over the last 20+ years. Appreciate the positive video. I’m certain this is why you likely stay busy and work with other great musicians. Keep it up!
I got my start in my dad's church, went on to play in a lot of clubs in the NY/NJ area back in the 90's, then back to CCM and worship and being an occasional opening act for big name CCM artists of the day. Currently working on my second studio album that has a lot of country rock vibes to it. Latest release was all original worship. Been a worship leader many times at many different churches over the years, but the freedom of being an indie artist is second to none. Since I have a regular job, I am not dependent on music for income, so I don't have to worry about answering to anyone. :) Win win. Great video, and man do I have some stories I could share, but I'll keep them vested for now. :)
Thank you SO much for your very honest assessment of the positives and negatives of working in the Christian Music world! I’m a classically-trained Christian musician, a retired music educator - and worship leader (in both traditional and contemporary styles). I’ve “seen it all” during my decades in Christian music - and your evaluation is SPOT ON. The one negative aspect that I expected to hear (but didn’t) is the absolute “paucity” of harmonic variety in almost all of the music used in churches these days. It’s like the SAME four or five chords, over and over again… Keep up the good work!
I was a worship guitarist in my local church and also rock band during my teenage days. But currently working with kids a very low key, nobody notice you, no glamour, no fame, no money, no appreciation, nothing ....but then i always remember at the end of the day you are serving a supernatural god which human eyes cant see, am not doing for some human or following instructions to please people or organization. If i want out i can but am volunteering for past 10 years now. One thing i learn as i walk with lord "there are lots of hypocrisy in church but so as in work place, school or community and even in within own family". Therefore we cant always expect church goer are holy and good people.. they are equally bad or worst even then non believers. Its all about our intention and attitude towards god. Low keys become part of every walk of our life and somehow give us wisdom and matured us beyond our age. But i tell you being low key is not everyone cup of tea especially in this mordern age where we wanted to be recognized for everything we do.
This was a great video. I’m glad you’ve had good experiences and shared those along with the bad stuff. I’ve seen and experienced some of the things in this video. I think you were really fair and respectful while telling the truth about the industry.
Some people are followers of Christ, some just wear a label. Thanks for seeing and speaking about the nature of the true Christian. So many times all the world hears is bad. Thanks again.
I’m a Pastor and on one end there are levels of accountability and consequences for our actions depending on what platform you have. On the other end there should be forgiveness, grace, mercy, and restoration because we all sin.
Modern pastors and the the way most of you set up your tax ID non profit status church business need to go away. You're not the authority on anything. If you don't have scripture to share then shut your mouth, fool.
Points very well taken, Nicky. I aspired to be a performing musician early in life through my mid-20s, playing open mics and coffeehouses, but the ordinary life needed me more I guess, but I stayed limber playing in church, almost 50 years now, in various traditions. I was in evangelicaliism for 30+ years. Every local church is like a small town - everybody knows each other...and their business. I had a 'brother' staring a hole through me once, and I felt like bustin' a chair over his head. The local church (its leadership) almost chomps at the bit for church discipline. There are gossips and meddlers in every church. Take note of them and be prudent. That's part of the reason I returned to the traditional church. Now as for worship music, it's better in a small ensemble than a Hillsongs-type overkill. All those power ballads where the drummers just go BEATBEATBEATBEATBEAT, guitarists strumming their Gretsches, etc. And we get an occasional song written with deliberately wrong chords (that clash with the melody, because they can, I guess). Thanks for posting this.
#1 love the hair. #2 love the faith! For being honest and sharing the good, bad and ugly of the Christian (Music) Industrial Complex! You got a new subscriber from me all the way from the West Coast of Canada.
Appreciate this video. I'm a very "local" Christian singer/guitarist, playing small venue concerts, leading worship, working with kids. It was interesting for me to see someone "from the outside" commenting on Christian music. Thanks again.
I play in a Christian/secular band. I have struggled with playing the secular music since my walk with Jesus has gotten stronger and my relationship is closer to Him. I continue to play because of there are more opportunities to witness to people who have never experienced Him or have never heard of Him. I can play Christian music for Christians any time. I praise and thank God for my gifts and talents I believe come from Him. 🎸🎤🎶🙏🏼📖♥️
I discovered this years ago back in the metal days with Stryper and all those big hair bands. Fast forward 30 plus years and it’s all about the money. A lot of independent label type bands are where you find the true heart of Christian music which when the gospel is presented with the heart of worship is when it is effective and truly edifying. I been playing drums for over thirty five years in Christian rock, led worship for a few years and it’s more enjoyable to me because I don’t have that pressure of time and hit music obligation. I love playing and that’s enough for me especially when what I’m playing represents Christ. Sounds like you got a good gig so keep it up brutha. Peace
Hey, thanks for your thoughts. They come across in a generous and objective spirit. As someone who spent a few years playing Christian music professionally a long time ago, I have seen enough to believe that your observations are probably true, both the good and the bad. I am old enough to remember the 'birth' of 'contemporary Christian music' (Larry Norman's album, 'Upon This Rock' 1971), and to have seen the explosion of highly talented Christian musicians who birthed the whole genre. (Phil Keaggy, Love Song, Keith Green, Second Chapter of Acts, John Michael Talbot and others). They had to persevere in the face of criticism from conservative churches, and I'm fairly sure they didn't make a ton of money plying their trade. I had the privilege of opening for Phil Keaggy and couple of other major names, and of staying overnight in Keith Green's home before they moved to Texas. These were truly great and generous people. Green refused to sell his albums after a while, in protest against the commercialization of Christian music. He gave them away for whatever people could afford, even if it was nothing. As you say, there are people of equal quality in the field today, and, unfortunately, others who aren't operating in that same spirit. The political thing in churches isn't limited to the field of music, though. As someone who has also been a pastor, I've experienced the down side of that, too. Thanks for your observations and your honesty. We all need grace sometimes.
So much to say, put no good words to say it all. Nicky V is no better or worse than the Christians that surround him. As a child of God, Nicky V has a responsibility to speak out about the good, the bad and the ugly. There is a lot of ugly in the Church and there is a lot of Good in the Church. Perhaps this whole topic revolves around priorities. Where is the top priority of a Christian life? It should be the same top priority of a Christian musicians life, as it should be the same priority of any Christian craftsman's life. The top rung of the priority ladder is Love God and Love people. Peoples ladders seem to be mixed up......mine too sometimes. Thanks for a worthwhile video.
I did a little ccm before it was called ccm in Nashville in the 90’s. I noticed that it was fraught with the same problems that the rest of Nashville had. Money b money and Folks b folks I reckon. But I do give thanks to God EVERYDAY for my Sunday morning gig. Great church, great people, great gig.
I started out in the early 70's working in churches voluntarily until I was paid to be a Music Director professionally. Times have certainly changed and I now feel at the bottom of the chain of talent that is out there now. Some churches require stringent standards for their music teams and others welcome outsiders. I feel if you are professing Christianity, you should be one but you should make others welcome in the process. It is a fine and hard line to legislate and we are terrible judges as we are all sinners. One thing I know to be true---when you have found the Perfect Church to join, when you you join it, it is not perfect anymore! God bless! 😊
Hey great take and fair. We are all sinners including priests, popes and preachers. So let me say this…I love Christian music! It lifts me up in a dark cold world.
As a life long christian and very willing to open up about it, I've made a conscious choice to not be involved with the christian music. When you take serving the lord and make a job out of it it changes things. I just want a relationship with Jesus. I stopped touring because I didn't like the person I was and didn't feel I was following Gods plan for my life. God closed that door and moved me somewhere else.
Very good comment. A paycheck is a very powerful thing. Although playing worship music seems like it could solve a lot of problems for me, I'm extremely suspicious that it could cause much BIGGER problems...
I suppose that god will honor your honesty. Perhaps, in future, you will look back and see good things that happened because of your decision. I was in that world, and later, good things happened. All that "proves" is that luck is the intersection of preparation and opportunity. Good luck to you!
We should serve the Lord no matter what field we are in. Whether you're a carpenter, biologist, athlete, teacher, pastor, musician...etc. We all make money at our set career. Nothing wrong with that. We should share the gospel and work unto his glory always!
Thanks for a good report. I left the CCM world more than 25 years ago. It made no sense to me to turn a ministry into show business. Also mixing Christianity with politics turned me off. I'm happily making music in the acoustic coffee house and open mic world, and occasionally toss in a gospel/spiritual song. I like the Johnny Cash quote found in the comments.
Humans are the biggest hypocrites. No matter our beliefs we always find a way for our culture to get in the way. Why can't we just not worry about what others think of us and just enjoy the parts of us we like and pray for the parts of us we hate? All music is beautiful and is a gift to the human soul! God bless the "Hellions" for being real.
GREAT VID!! I'm a Christian musician and would love a demo vid on improving guitar chording and being creative with modern Christian music. Thank you for your candor - we can learn from it!
Music in church seems to be a point of contention, some want the old hymns, some want it to be contemporary while others like country styles. If that’s why they are at church then they are worshipping the music and not the Savior. When we get to Heaven we will all be singing a new song. Don’t let yourself get tripped up, music is a form of worship but the Word is where wisdom is found.
I once attended a church where the pastor had been in radio. When he converted, he was really excited to get out of all the backbiting politics of his secular radio station to work at a Christian station where he thought it would be all love and grace and forgiveness. Instead, it was much worse. The reason was that everyone was expecting everyone ELSE to be loving and forgiving to THEM rather than expecting themselves to act that ways to others. At the secular station it was restrained a little by a sense of professionalism. So it was really toxic. The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill podcast shows how churches can go really haywire when there's size and numbers and money and celebrity in the mix.
I appreciate this comment as radio guy, who thought about Christian radio for a minute, and avoided it for the same reasons I’ve been seeing in most Christian churches nowadays. It’s mostly a show. I am much more effective in my standard roles, where you can actually be a human, not a machine. it’s just a parallel sanitized version of pop culture.
Interesting. I was a traveling musician in the early seventies with a southern gospel group. We had plenty of diesel pushers on our tails. Holier than thou while in the venue then there’s the afterwards. It made me look at the business in a totally different way. And if you may ask? Commonplace.
Yep, I played guitar about 2 years at a huge church. I was still gigging on Fridays and Saturdays so, sometimes it was ruff getting up in the mornings. I learned a lot about chords, more ambient sounds. It improved me as a guitarist. I saw my share of hypocrisy but, by and large, it was a positive experience. When I left they were upset. I just said if the Lord owns the cattle on thousand hills surely he can afford to pay a professional guitar player better😂
@@NickyVmost playing at church is a volunteer position. Normally only the worship leader or choir leader gets paid. I’ve played at several churches with one being very large. They had 3 campuses and only the 3 worship leaders were paid. I’ve never played for money. I am a Methodist and no one gives a crap about someone having some beers. I’ve had a beer with our Pastor. Methodists are open and realistic. All of this crap that you see with the Baptist and southern Baptist are hypocrites and try to shame other people for what they call sins. They need to read the Bible and stop judging others.
@bks252 lol, yep. That is why you always take 2 Baptist with you a on fishing trip. If you take 1 he will drink all of your beer. You take 2 you got all the beer to yourself.
I wrote a 23 page essay on the state of worship/ church music. I had a lot of ideas and thoughts regarding the subject, that no one seems to want to discuss
Appreciate your candor. We Christians (disciples of Christ, literally) need to be willing to see ourselves as we really are, and not as we imagine ourselves. And like your examples show, we are a very diverse group and at different places in our journey towards sanctification (fancy word for being more like Jesus). Your perspective is a refreshing & sobering glimpse into who we are when nobody is looking - in other words, who we really are, period. Thanks for doing this video, and the spirit in which it is offered.
Hey, We all make steps towards good in Gods timing, nobody elses, we‘re not here to try to impress other people with some kind of holier than thou competition. It‘s in Gods timing, nobody elses, You do you. ☦️
Thx Nicky, ya I use to work with a friend doing Word records and southern gospel as well. One time was working with Jimmy Buffets manager and he would say you christian record people always want everything and never want to pay for it. He was mostly right , but It was tough at times having to get enough money from record label to finish a project. Sadly now, so much less money going around for those same mid grade records.
The era of cocaine budget records is definitely over. Things are steep…lots of people to pay when it comes to making a record. Thank you for sharing your story and checking the video out.
It never ceases to amaze me how Jesus *constantly* warned about how the church would be filled with legitimate believers and false believers; those who claim the name of Christ but don't act in accord with their profession. I was involved in the CCM scene in the late 80's through the early 2000's and remember back when things were VERY different. I'm thankful for the enduring Christian connections i made during that era, and am thankful for a pastor who gave me realistic expectations for what sort of people to expect to find anywhere people claim the name of Christ.
I auditioned for a successful Christian band in the early 90's. I had gotten saved and decided to leave the rock scene in Nashville (Yes Nashville had a rock scene even then! And there were some amazing bands back then, story for another time). I did not get the gig due to politics. I left the music industry altogether and stayed away for at least six years or more. I got tired of just the douchieness in and around the church music scene. I wasn't even that deeply involved in it, and it even I could see what was going on, and it was NOT Christ like, then you would think the church could. This and many other issues pushed me out of the church. I really do want to be a part of a church. I KNOW I loved Christ, but the hypocrisy is too much. I feel like to praise and worship section of the church has gotten out of control. I am there to hear the word of God, not to see a show and ego.
Agree with you 100 percent about praise and worship music getting out hand. The problem comes in when you try and separate worship and praise as just being the music part of the service. The whole church service is praise and worship not just the music with the message (hearing God’s word) being the most important part. I’ve played in a couple different “Praise Bands” for several years and finally had enough of it. Now, I attend a church where the whole service is about God and lifting up Christ and we don’t even have a praise band. It’s definitely not about putting on a show it’s about worshiping God! My 2 cents worth!
I had the similar experience which cause me to go from playing on a worship team for 18 years in 4 diffrent churches, even being in the lead for more than half. To not even playing the guitar for over 12 years. Then God showed me what Grace really is and that I have to operate in Grace toward others. As a result I have been able to enter back into that world and play again with God giving me the Grace to tolorate and sometime minister to the issues that church music often presents. Seek God on this brother and he will make a path.
Rock on, brother. As a Christian (who came into playing Pdub from the hard rock club life), I have seen some of those things you mentioned (especially when I was playing the whole megachurch thing). It's pathetic. I've learned that God is God. People are people. People complicate things and complicate the lives of other people. I finally found a nice little church (where I adamantly play as a volunteer and will not take a dime from my church) and they are awesome. Great people who generally care. It's been rubbing off on me a bit, haha. Just wanted to say, though, Be YOU. Only. I'm out of Hater-Aid currently, and all I see is a fellow musician. I totally appreciate your honesty. This is an anti-rant. :) Rooting for you! One thing I'll add is that - as a rocker and former absolute hater of all things God (I was THAT guy) who felt God's call directly and became changed - I do think that Christian musicians who have only known Christian music are missing out on a TON of great tunes and artists to emulate. But that's just my opinion.
I was raised in church and believe in God. Although I've been a hellyen started in radio 1979 including night club DJ from sarasota to Cincinnati. My opinion and observations only when I first meet someone and right off jump they tell me their Christian my experience that becomes a train wreck. I want to hang with good people that follow the 10 commandments...frankly they don't have to be a 100 percent believer just good people. Sadly you're video post is and has been my thoughts for many years. Great post In fact I'll have to look back I think I've caught a couple of your youtube vids... keep them coming
I’m with you on that one. Good people and bad people on both sides of the coin…and a whole bunch in the middle. Appreciate you commenting and checking the video out.
Hi Nicky, thanks for the great content. I would be really interested in a video detailing how the business is handled in Nashville. Are there union wages for sessions and songwriting? How do you determine your fees for the various services you provide? When you agree to co-write, do you predetermine the split or is that more of an honor system that gets discussed later?
On the cowriting I’m not positive but I believe it’s usually split evenly and that’s what’s kind of assumed going in. The union rates for sessions are usually a solid starting point for custom projects but everybody negotiates their own rates based on the market, competition and reputation. Probably need to do a whole video on this.
Such a good video brohammer…glad this got recommended to me! You point out some bad stuff and also the good. Very balanced and I for one, am glad you are bringing some edge to Christian music. It needs it bad…LOL!
Super interesting. I came across your channel this morning and have watched a lot of your videos today. As a session player and producer and Christian based in the UK I found it interesting. I don't play on 'Christian records' much per se, not because of any reason but I have more work elsewhere but hearing your perspective was interesting. I appreciate your honesty and kind heart you have for your community you have here on RUclips
Played drums for a charismatic church for a few years and man did I get some chops. 2-3 hour worship services, single songs that went for 30 minutes and blood on the snare drum. Never had another gig where I had to remember to bring band-aids! Also got slightly better at dancing heh
Keyboardist here. One congregation where I used to play was charismatic, and I know what you mean about the songs. Many times I was ready to wrap up the song before anyone else was.
The one thing that has always amazed me is that the message of the Gospel is to declare the good news to the lost, broken, sick and the poor. Music is such great tool to do this but the Church will often be critical of the style of music. It has to be old time Gospel , Hyms or the such. Bring in a song written in the style of Ozzy or Moterhead and you might as well hang up the guitar cause your not playing in that church again...... I once heard an interview with the lead singer of a very popular Christian Band and he said that with all their success and being invited to play in churches the whole world over. They have never been invited to play in the church he got saved in. Becuause of this point. I for one being a metal head growing up in the 80's needed bands like this one in my walk and some of the songs they put out have help me in some really bad times in my life. As one of thier songs says as a christian sometimes you feel like your on a beach with no place to go, so let it go and give it to God..... I play that song at 11 (as one might say) when the struggles are going down in my life.
I love your vids as a view into a world that I will never be in or have any other access to. Very enjoyable. I am a hobby musician and find your views and info helpful.
Great video. It saddens when I hear of Christian circles that shun or judge other harshly when they make mistakes but thank God he doesn't shun you but ofference grace and forgiveness every time. This video made me realize how lucky I am to work at the church I play at. I work at a church that is not my denomination but they have never made me feel like an outcast or pressured me to convert. My music director has come to my confirmation and wedding and supported my walk with the Lord even though it doesn't follow the theology of his church. The pastor is kind with his words when talking about any other denomination, talking about other peoples mistakes, and always reminds the congregation to pray for everyone and offer forgiveness as God forgives you "not 7 but 77 times." Anyone, this is more a rant on my end but a few thoughts I wanted to share.
Thank you for doing this! You sound so gracious and loving and generous. I, as a pastor can resonate with every singe thing you said. There are some amazing musicians like Abe Laboriel, Michael Omartian Phil Keaggy and such that are truly world class that have done stellar work. They have overcome terrible obstacles to do so in that insular bubble. It is not and never has been a healthy culture. That said, the music industry in general feels like a really abusive system in so many ways. The good news is that a lot of people are following Jesus out of the evangelical ghetto.
This is all very well said, thank you for the thoughtfulness and sharing. The minute you industrialize anything (music or meat packing) it’s going to have some issues. Have to focus on the positive for sure.
So the militant attitude is still there. It is why I walked....nothing loving about any of that. I will not play in church or do a "Christian" band ever again. I love the lord and go to church and I pray for these people. I am a working, sober hired gun in my state and everyone knows what they are getting. Zero friction for the most part and I get paid well. It's amazing how many Christian musicians I run into out there that are in a similar state of mind.
Thanks Nicky....glad you made this vid. I came from the late 60's and my band was The Royal Guardsmen.....yep, Snoopy songs. I love the time but the Lord had other plans. After 20 or so years, He gave me new songs to write and play. Scared to death about what would the Christian world think of me and my kind of music. It was a light rock I guess. Anyhoo, "Transition" came to be. Started playing churches and saw the reaction of the people and bought our CD at each sing. Knowing that this came from the Lord...I was just the vessel. Some of my friends from Nashville said to do this as an Indy. OK, so I tried to get some airplay, and did get a little, but when I contacted KLOVE, I checked all the boxes except....a label...so they wouldn't play my songs. I guess I gave up after a couple of years and hoped maybe other artists would looks at them. I do get some sales on CD Baby, etc., which I appreciate deeply. Again, thanks for the insight and an ear. God bless ya .
KLOV$E$ not how much you love God and maybe you have an anointed song, but other connections $ work better there. Another netflix opportunity, I guess (I don't watch netflix).
@@vfam5860 Thanks vfam....I believe the songs are anointed. Coming from secular success, I walked into CCM with concerns like, are my songs too "rockish: etc. but the reaction from the people blew me away. I wasn't after big money or such, I just wanted to get played and thought KLOV would be the way. Like I was telling NickyV, being retired, I'd just like to have other artists give'em a go if they like it. God bless
Another Great Video Nicky! I did some studio work last year for a couple of Christian acts. Had a great time. The guys I worked with were pretty awesome. And yeah we had a few beers while recording :)
Without music life would be (a bit) dull . Many of us who really love music know that for sure . Well , over the years , we have come to realize that a couple of really talented fellows, Randy Stonehill and Phil Keaggy , are very much likened to the Lennon and McCartney of the Contemporary Christian Music World ... great songwriters !
I really enjoyed watching this video.. and really was impressed and empathetic to a lot of t he comments. Brother I could write a book on these topics.
Appreciate your honest feedback Nicky. You make great points many of which I also observe among us. To me, logically the main question is whether Christianity is true, which takes us to a different field: apologetics. (It certainly has an art to it though, just like music does.) If it is - and it certainly seems to be - then working with flawed people in this camp, and improving together with them, is absolutely worth it :)
There are many real Christian musicians who have been pushed or alienated out of "churches" because they were both sincere Believers and dedicated to praising the Father. They are often attacked by leadership if that leader perceives them as some sort of competitive threat even when the musician isn't competitive and just wants to be part of the team and will take on any role. (Edit: I'm not addressing those who can't really play, I mean at least moderately good musicians).
I appreciate your honesty. Fairly new to the channel but will be watching more. I grew up playing around dirk, Kelly, Scott. Sure you know these guys. I can totally relate. Also toured on a country bus. Liked it much better than all my years in sg.
Really enjoyed your video, Nicky! I played guitar in a praise worship band at a megachurch in the late 80's /early 90's. Man, what a cluster F that was! Since I left that experience I've probably set foot in church a grand total of maybe four times!🎶" I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints, the sinners have much more fun...only the good die young."🎶😋😋
Fellas-- just please don’t think “religion” is the key. It’s about believing in Jesus and what He did for ALL of us if we’ll just accept His gift. Christians certainly aren’t perfect. And obviously, everyone that goes to church are not Christians.
Love your videos! You are living the dream a lot of us hoped for as frustrated guitarists. This video especially hit home. You are 100 per cent spot on. "RELIGION" is not the answer. It's all about a personal relationship with Jesus. You have discovered a major truth. You have to as an adult investigate th Truth for yourself. Very many well meaning people have distorted the true focus. I suggest that you might grab a Bible and read the book of John. Decide for yourself. You are doing a fantastic job with all your videos. Thank you for sharing your heart and your life with us!
This is a very thoughtful and kind comment. I actually read it cover to cover (skipped some of the genealogy parts) when I was in college. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and the kind feedback.
"I am not a Christian artist, I am an artist who is a Christian." Johnny Cash
I hear ya
In my humble opinion... In my over 50 years of drumming, having done pretty much every Genre and scenario, There is a much greater broader issue going on. The music/worship thing has become a religion/cult all it's own within churches edified to the status of a golden calf so to speak. That's what I have observed and I'm out and done. I likely will never play drums in church again. Honestly I have always felt uncomfortable with it all right from the start.
I now attend a little church with a piano and organ which are never played together at the same time. The music is in its rightful place once again, far in the background as a thin layer under girding the most important thing.... the words of the songs and hymns clearly and easily heard, being absorbed directly by one's soul. No tyranny of PowerPoint etc... Simply glorious.
The process that led to the monster that it is, Was passionately and even forcefully imposed on churches by the musicians themselves (I was one of them) wanting "their God given gifting" expressed to serve God in the way they would like. No person has ever come to Christ through instrumental music anyway, It's the truthful message of the word alone that saves a soul. There's those that would argue that point.
Fair enough, but it's gotten to the status of an ominous,laser lit, thundering spectacle with very stringent, legalistic, clicky pre qualifications as well.
Very much a distraction.
I have spent most of my life in the church culture and played guitar and bass in church for decades. My wife plays keyboards and sings. I was trying to find some points that you were wrong on so I could point them out, but to be honest, Nicky you pretty well nailed it. You gave an accurate and fair assessment. Lots of abuse and bad religious systems, but also lots of genuine Christian people that live out their faith in sincerety. Extremely well done.
Thank you for taking the time to check the video out.
Just found your videos. I've worked in secular and Christian music. You hit it right on the head.
As a Christian musician within the church
1. Not every church is this way
2. A vast majority of churches are
3. Many of the members are unaware thats going down
4. Those who are are working and praying for reform
5. That is not the spirit of Christ or true Christianity but rather big people with big egos acting more like pharisees than Christians
6. I believe change is coming and those doing it wrong will be exposed
Great video and great insight. I appreciate you!
As someone who has always had a passion for worship and desire to glorify God through my gifts, I often had this thought that “if only I could be doing what those artists are doing”. But the more I research and see, I think being behind the scenes with production is the way to do it. You get to do what you love and maintain a simple life. I appreciate your honesty about the good and the bad. At the end of the day the believers loyalty should be to Jesus not the Christian music industry or church “business”.
Glad you found what works for you and is fulfilling. Appreciate you watching
I am a Christian and a musician. But I come from a secular music background. So, I inject a lot creativity in my music. Highly shunned by the "community." So, I stopped caring what they think. Of course, I get no support. But I don't work for them. I work for Jesus. The most creative of all.
So how can other Christians support your art?
@@josh1v9 Most church going Christians have this mental block when it comes to creativity. They assume it comes from the enemy. They only believe music is inspired if it sounds like all the rest of the gospel music. They also tend to only like praise music. Truthful testimonies are shunned. It's the same reason most Christian movies are lame. Everything is safe & sterile. They don't reflect real life & what we actually go through. They're like after school specials. I write music that is more personal. The good & the bad. The struggle that we go through trying to follow Yeshua in this fallen world. I come from an art rock background. Where the music is a part of the painting. It sounds like the message. It could be light, it could sound dark. Wooooo. They're all for the light stuff. Throw some minor chords in and all of a sudden you're in league with the devil. It's childish. Tell them their doctrine has flaws & they'll throw you out of church. Don't disrupt the flow of the money. So, they won't support my art. But King David sang to the Father. It wasn't for a record contract.
I think where people fail in their understanding of Christian music is that they think "Christian music" is a genre. For something to be Christian, it's the spirit behind the music, not the music itself.
I believe all music comes from God. What differentiates this is the spirit behind it. Therefore, any style of music can be Christian.
no one cancels christians like christians
Amen
Hey, gotta get to the front of that heaven line for that holy position they are entitled to. all that forgiveness and grace stuff is for everyone else.
Thanks much, Nicky V -- we in the Church need light and salt, and you provided it with this video. I pray God blesses you with success as you follow Him and bless His followers.
You are very kind. Thanks for watching
I come from both worlds. I grew up playing 70’s and 80’s hard rock and then came to faith when I was 19 (I played in bars underage up here in Canada). Then I played in church for over 30 years and we never got paid. I’ve experienced all the bad stuff especially your 3rd point. Lots of toxicity in the culture but I also met some fabulous people and met my wife at church. I’m done with doing worship music regularly for now at least and I’m back playing out in a variety of venues playing a number of styles. I really appreciate your video. It’s great to shed light on both the good and bad in the Christian community.
You have excellent content overall and I appreciate your honesty. Thanks
Your perceptions are spot on. If you're ever in Eastern PA, you are very welcomed to have a beer with this Christian and her husband. We'll play music in the back yard.
Amen to that
You're the kind of guy that I wish more churches were full of! Real and raw. 👍
You are very kind. Never played in a church before but I’m sure that will happen at some point with one of those bands I was talking about towards the end. Thank you again for the kindness and checking the video out.
Thank you for taking the time and effort to share your experiences within the Christian music world. I appreciate your directness and honesty.
Appreciate you taking the time to watch the video!
I'm a pastor and have a son who is a touring guitar player in Nashville. I just discovered your channel and can't wait to dive in. I really appreciated this video. I'm not any sort of insider, I know only what my son shares with me. Based on what I know from a lifetime of serving as a pastor (I'm in my sixties now), and what my son tells me, your thoughts about working with Christians seems very fair to me. I really appreciated all of it. One thing never changes when it comes to Christians, they are finite people trying to express their love for an infinite God. The flaws and ugliness are bound to show through in different ways. I understand how some people can just be "over' the whole experience. Ultimately, God knows everyone's heart, He knows what's real and what's fake, who loves Him and who doesn't. I really appreciated you taking the time to make this post.
Thank you so much for the response and sharing that. Hope to cross paths with your son down the road.
I’ve been a Christian all my life, and this is accurate. There are wonderful, amazing people in the church and people I wouldn’t trust to take out my trash. But this is true of any group, organization, club, or gathering of people. The church is unfortunately not exempt from human nature. I appreciate that you cover both the good and the bad, rather than overemphasizing one or the other.
Spot on man. Find me one group of perfect people on this earth. The churches issue seems to be they put restrictions on human nature and you can’t put peoples natural inclinations into a compartment that restrictive. Now put musicians in the mix and it’s gets real colorful haha.
Appreciate you checking the video out and the comment.
This exactly. On the rush issues, I will say that it IS an issue, and can be beyond annoying, but I generally chalk it up to folks being pulled many different directions, including their family priorities.
While there are bad people in every group, but the PR image that currently stands for the church is quite accurate. I had thought the people were being a little too hard on it, but I dedicated myself to serving several churches, and I found that people are more interested in saying the right things, and being around the right people, then actually doing the right thing.
Those are God's "restrictions" brother. Sometimes they are perverted by men and religion.
As a lifelong atheist, I would have a great difficulty accepting so many technicalities. Would it not be just as holy to obey the Ten Commandments, then there would be no need for interpretation?
25 yrs in Christian music. Thanks for sharing your truth.
I searched Highway 96. Cool. Truth is, in 2024, The real broken remnant is scattered all out here. 😎
Appreciate you checking the video out!
Way to make me all sappy this morning, Hines. We sure do love you and the fresh approach you bring to SOGO music. You are the best thing Steve ever did. Love you big!
PS - Hallelujah ride the train 🔥
Blahahaha “Hallelujah Ride The Train” (2nd grade Nicky walking to principals office confused).
Love you Jess
My experience was not good.
I played in churches where the musicians weren't experienced seasoned musicians at all. At one church, the worship leader changed about every 6 or so months.
I was the only experienced musician who had played in bands professionally in every worship scenario.
More often than not, the songs were in a key that the worship leaders couldn't comfortably sing in..
The drummers didn't even know what a metronome was, and i got shamed for mentioning they should learn to play in time and hold the tempo..
I dealt with guitar players who were jealous because i was always being given the spotlight.
I didn't ask for any of it, and it made me regret ever giving any testimony about how i was saved..
Because every time, they begged me to join and help because i needed to have a "servants heart"..
I met a lot of really wonderful people, but at the same time, I was tormented by all that i previously mentioned.
The both sides of the coin. Hard to win sometimes for sure. I think it all comes back to human nature trying to be confined to a set of rules that it naturally doesn’t want to fit into. Also, love the “servants heart” phrase…prime Christianese. Haha
@NickyV I agree, i don't hold any grudge or contempt toward them at all. I got to meet so many people who can walk and chew gum at the same time. So I'm not complaining. It was a souring experience, but it made me stronger in the end.
LOL - oops, I really shouldn't laugh, since this is painfully true. Most smaller churches have horrible music and horrible musicians. Most are probably volunteers. Nothing like trying to sit in a church and squirm at the off key singing, or mix mash of volunteer music helpers. I'm stuck now, small churches are nice since they can be more personal, but then they are often weird, full of weird folks (controlling, stuck in their routines). And then big churches become a show and they have their stuck routines too. Just can't win. I think in real Bible / Jesus world, it really isn't about music performance at all, c'mon - can I hear an 'amen' from someone? Seriously - life is about true worship to the Lord through living a holy life, not about getting on stage and giving someone chills and goose bumps by the way we work the crowd. Just saying...
I've seen the same thing and often the people on the worship team with no musical back ground are the pastors wife or child. Or the wife of one of the leaders of the board. Often saying anything about them learning or getting some training musically is treated like blasphame and they are ready to stone you right then and there for saying it. But I would also say to seek God and he will show a path for you to use your talent he has given you.
@@vfam5860 Amen
I have heard, "The good lord respects you when you wrok, but he loves you when you sing." I have found that singing helps when I work, no matter the task. When your work is making music...now there's the sprinkles on the icing on the cake!
Very true. Feel like I’m getting away with something everyday
Remember, we play music, not work music, to quote Mr. Eddie Van Halen…
I am a worship leader and over the whole music program at my church. But I am also in a country band that plays shows not related to worship music at all. So having my feet in both worlds, I really apprecitate your thoughts on the bad and good of the modern worship scene. It's really enlightening and beneficial to listen to everyones experiences. Preciate you and your honesty on this topic!
Thank you for checking the video out and the kind words!
Like others, I very much appreciate you being open and honest. You have a far different perspective than many of us who have been on the inside .... being in praise bands ... seeing church become more of a 3 ring circus than actually serving Christ. I was fortunate to have had an almost decade long experience with a church whose pastor had been an evangelist. The cause of Christ is about "seeking and saving that which was lost." "The good shepherd leaves the 99 to go after the one." So when the cause of Christ is on the back burner, or maybe thrown out with the trash ... what remains? I dearly love entertainment. I have gotten so much from message songs. Cats In The Cradle haunted me. When I finally had a child, a son, I made sure I spent a lot of quality time with him. And it was due, in great part, to that song of Harry Chapin. The first time I heard Bridge Over Troubled Waters was when I was stationed in Germany back in 68 to 70. My friend wanted me to hear that song. I stood in the middle of his room like a statue .... taking every word sung along with the amazing music. With the CCM industry, in the early 80s, there were investors who saw Christian music as an untapped gold mine. They gave the edict to Christian songwriters, "We want no more I got saved you get saved too songs. Get commercial ... or get lost." Since reaching out to souls yet in darkness is the cause of Christ, they pretty much said, "Be like Judas ... who only cared about money and his own selfish wants." Many who became a part of the CCM machine were and are sell-outs. Like you stated, it is not fair to use blanket statements that cover everyone. But prior to the 80s, the songs we sang were the sacred hymns like "Look and Live, my brother live." There was nothing that appealed to the flesh, the carnal nature. There is so much more I could state .... and others could state. Church attendance began to drop off in the mid 80s. It was estimated that 30% of all professing Christ-followers no longer attended church. Fast forwarding to our times, that number has doubled. The early church .... maybe day one and shortly thereafter .... was about the cause of Christ, prayer, and about sacrificial love, which is charity. In that church I attended in the 70s, my car was smashed in on one side from an accident. One man in the church walked up to me, handing me the car keys to one of his cars. That is where the rubber meets the road .... so to speak. As an added note: I have been writing Christian message songs since the 70s. Since my songs do not at all fit within the realm of the CCM pigeon hole, I was never able to get anywhere with them. If you want to hear a few of them, drop me an Email at toddm7 at comcast dot net
Really appreciate you sharing your story and thoughts. Thank you for spending some time checking out the video as well. Best wishes to you and yours
I am SO INCREDIBLY THANKFUL,you made this video!! This is TRUTH people need to hear to be set free from mental bondage!!
I’ve had a lot of people reach out privately about this video. I was surprised at the positivity in the comments as well. Seems my friends weren’t the only ones going through it in this world
@@NickyV The eneny truly comes to steal,kill and destroy! He will use anyone and everyone to do that. Pride is a disgusting all raised up power now in these dayz, along with deception and manipulation...tools of the enemies trade. We have to be wise as serpants and gentle as doves....let no one mistake meekness for weakness!
Thank you for sharing and posting this video Nicky! Im thankful for 25+ yrs as a volunteer church musician and audio-video tech, with some stipends and 'love offerings' along the way. Ive probably had it much easier than career musicians. You're integrity, transparency, honor and wit are refreshing and valuable. I pray you have many blessings throughout your career!
This is super kind of you to say. Appreciate it and thank you for taking the time to check out the video
As a Christian musician, my goal is to share God's love through music. I hope that the words and melodies uplift your spirit, filling your heart with joy and hope. The spirit of generosity displayed by the Christians you mention in this video reflects the very heart of Jesus.
Absolutely. Thank you for the kind words and checking the video out
Man, this is one of the best observations of that world that I've seen. And things that absolutely should be pointed out. Both the bad and the good. Thank you.
Absolutely! Thanks for watching and appreciate the kind words
I have mad respect for you in this video. I really appreciate your objective yett thoughtful words of the Christian music, well actually the whole community. I would say the number one ingredient you could say about those who are great to work with is they have a spirit of humility. Which seems to be absent in a lot of the others. I was once deemed worthy of the club, and had a moral failure and was sidelined. Everything you said is true
Appreciate you checking the video out and sharing your experience.
Man, that's so good to hear. I've walked for years with a foot in the Christian and a foot in the secular. You're insight into the world of Christian music is spot on. I'll add that I was screwed with a wierd copywrite deal that is thankfully sorted now but that comes out of the control aspect of what you talk about. And yep, there are some very good people and I'm blesssed to know them.
Thank you for sharing and checking the video out
Christian artist here! And one looking to potentially make a move to Nashville in the future. This is really great info to know! There are unfortunately hypocrites everywhere and in every sphere of society. It definitely is highlighted more when you’re literally singing one thing and living another.
Either way, I feel like based on what you talked about, the good outweighs the bad. Thanks for the video! I really enjoy your content, man! Keep it up!
Couldn't agree more. Thank you for checking the video out and your thoughtful feedback.
I remember being a Christian in a rock band. The church needed us to be a Christian Rock Band. To play only church sanctioned events and crap like that. I always thought “Jesus was a carpenter, not a Christian Carpenter”. Did the church tell Jesus what, when, and how to build when he was a carpenter? There were so many examples of Jesus doing things with people the church didn’t approve of. I caught a lot of shit from the church for not submitting my extra curricular activities to their whims. I heard years later the head pastor secretly told everyone to not come see us perform. Because we were playing at the Local TexMex Bar n’ Grill.
Everyone needs to learn that organizations and people will let them down. Schools, teachers, the government, the DMV, churches, and Christians. We are all made of the same stuff.
Wow. Sounds about right though. Sorry you had to deal with that.
Eventually, people will let you down, but there does have to be some accountability somewhere, which seems to be a forgotten virtue of most people anymore. I understand that lacking responsibility has always been a thing with people, but social media has basically trained people on how to gaslight, re-engineer, a concept, and somehow blame the other person for it instead of actually looking at the issue as something worth debating.
@@brandonshuttleworth8374 Church people have no business telling you how to live your personal life. Period!
@@chuckfriebe843 i appreciate it when people with good intentions help you do the right thing. that’s the one thing i miss about being religious. talking with people about whether I am a good person or not. it can be beautiful when it’s done right.
but it can’t be a part of the leadership or business of a church. churches that last are like any organization that lasts. it’s a business with a hierarchy. the main deliverable of leadership is growth and sustaining revenue. i’m sure they honestly believe in Jesus. but their concerns are growth and revenue. not if the people are living good lives. my church protected sexual abusers. reputation is everything. protecting people is fine, as long as it doesn’t interfere with growth and revenue.
You must have never been a member of "The Praise Team" I was for over 10 years, spent thousands of dollars on gear, a few thousand just traveling back and forth to church, for services and a weekly rehearsal, never got so much as a pat on the back or even a fake thank you, not to mention, they paid us nothing. It's OK, though, as I didn't ask to be paid money, I did it for the joy of serving my Lord Jesus. I don't regret any of it until the day I was forced to sign a contract or step down, I chose to leave.
Hi , I'm from Thailand. I can see your point there. it's always good to talk about issues that we sometimes don't talk about it in church. In asia mostly musicians are volunteer and yes we will need to at least meet biblical standard in some point. I was on music industries and also I currently only on worship ministry for almost 30 years now. here we have others issues .thanks for your thought it does helpful for many Christian musicians.
Such a great way of sharing your thoughts on that particular industry without the cynicism. Don’t see or hear that these days! I dabbled in both Christian and Country music projects as a songwriter/artist here in town over the last 20+ years. Appreciate the positive video. I’m certain this is why you likely stay busy and work with other great musicians. Keep it up!
You are very kind. Really appreciate it and thank you for the thoughtful comment.
Theres nothing better than a christian living life by example that is the best church there is.
Spot on.
Yup!
I got my start in my dad's church, went on to play in a lot of clubs in the NY/NJ area back in the 90's, then back to CCM and worship and being an occasional opening act for big name CCM artists of the day. Currently working on my second studio album that has a lot of country rock vibes to it. Latest release was all original worship. Been a worship leader many times at many different churches over the years, but the freedom of being an indie artist is second to none. Since I have a regular job, I am not dependent on music for income, so I don't have to worry about answering to anyone. :) Win win. Great video, and man do I have some stories I could share, but I'll keep them vested for now. :)
Nice! Glad you found a path that’s working for you. Appreciate you watching
“Love Offering!!” Haha…I caught that. I really enjoyed your insight and perspective. Thanks for sharing the bad AND the good.
Hahaha you got it, thanks for watching
You have such an insightful and balanced view on your channel. Thank you for you views!
You are very kind. Thank you for watching!
Thank you SO much for your very honest assessment of the positives and negatives of working in the Christian Music world! I’m a classically-trained Christian musician, a retired music educator - and worship leader (in both traditional and contemporary styles). I’ve “seen it all” during my decades in Christian music - and your evaluation is SPOT ON. The one negative aspect that I expected to hear (but didn’t) is the absolute “paucity” of harmonic variety in almost all of the music used in churches these days. It’s like the SAME four or five chords, over and over again… Keep up the good work!
I was a worship guitarist in my local church and also rock band during my teenage days. But currently working with kids a very low key, nobody notice you, no glamour, no fame, no money, no appreciation, nothing ....but then i always remember at the end of the day you are serving a supernatural god which human eyes cant see, am not doing for some human or following instructions to please people or organization. If i want out i can but am volunteering for past 10 years now. One thing i learn as i walk with lord "there are lots of hypocrisy in church but so as in work place, school or community and even in within own family". Therefore we cant always expect church goer are holy and good people.. they are equally bad or worst even then non believers. Its all about our intention and attitude towards god. Low keys become part of every walk of our life and somehow give us wisdom and matured us beyond our age. But i tell you being low key is not everyone cup of tea especially in this mordern age where we wanted to be recognized for everything we do.
This is all incredibly true. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and checking the video out
This was a great video. I’m glad you’ve had good experiences and shared those along with the bad stuff. I’ve seen and experienced some of the things in this video. I think you were really fair and respectful while telling the truth about the industry.
Really appreciate the kind words and thank you for checking the video out
Well spoken ...finally hearing someone that has seen things the way I have for years .... thank you -
You got it!
I truly enjoyed listening to this. Great video!
Appreciate you checking it out
Some people are followers of Christ, some just wear a label. Thanks for seeing and speaking about the nature of the true Christian. So many times all the world hears is bad. Thanks again.
You got it! Thanks for watching
You are dead on dude. I’ve been in and around Southern Gospel all of my life. I do appreciate you sharing both sides with class.
You got it man! Thanks for watching
Hey, Nicky. Your FOH guy and road manager is a good friend of mine. I’ve known him since he was about 13.
I’m a Pastor and on one end there are levels of accountability and consequences for our actions depending on what platform you have. On the other end there should be forgiveness, grace, mercy, and restoration because we all sin.
Very true. Appreciate you checking the video out.
Modern pastors and the the way most of you set up your tax ID non profit status church business need to go away. You're not the authority on anything. If you don't have scripture to share then shut your mouth, fool.
Points very well taken, Nicky. I aspired to be a performing musician early in life through my mid-20s, playing open mics and coffeehouses, but the ordinary life needed me more I guess, but I stayed limber playing in church, almost 50 years now, in various traditions. I was in evangelicaliism for 30+ years. Every local church is like a small town - everybody knows each other...and their business. I had a 'brother' staring a hole through me once, and I felt like bustin' a chair over his head. The local church (its leadership) almost chomps at the bit for church discipline. There are gossips and meddlers in every church. Take note of them and be prudent. That's part of the reason I returned to the traditional church. Now as for worship music, it's better in a small ensemble than a Hillsongs-type overkill. All those power ballads where the drummers just go BEATBEATBEATBEATBEAT, guitarists strumming their Gretsches, etc. And we get an occasional song written with deliberately wrong chords (that clash with the melody, because they can, I guess). Thanks for posting this.
Thanks for sharing your experience and taking the time to check the video out!
#1 love the hair.
#2 love the faith! For being honest and sharing the good, bad and ugly of the Christian (Music) Industrial Complex!
You got a new subscriber from me all the way from the West Coast of Canada.
Love that man. Thank you for the kind words and checking the channel out!
Appreciate this video. I'm a very "local" Christian singer/guitarist, playing small venue concerts, leading worship, working with kids. It was interesting for me to see someone "from the outside" commenting on Christian music. Thanks again.
Absolutely! Thanks for sharing and checking the video out!
I play in a Christian/secular band. I have struggled with playing the secular music since my walk with Jesus has gotten stronger and my relationship is closer to Him. I continue to play because of there are more opportunities to witness to people who have never experienced Him or have never heard of Him. I can play Christian music for Christians any time. I praise and thank God for my gifts and talents I believe come from Him. 🎸🎤🎶🙏🏼📖♥️
Thank you for speaking up. I agree that this needs to be addressed within our churches.
Thank you for watching!
I discovered this years ago back in the metal days with Stryper and all those big hair bands. Fast forward 30 plus years and it’s all about the money. A lot of independent label type bands are where you find the true heart of Christian music which when the gospel is presented with the heart of worship is when it is effective and truly edifying. I been playing drums for over thirty five years in Christian rock, led worship for a few years and it’s more enjoyable to me because I don’t have that pressure of time and hit music obligation. I love playing and that’s enough for me especially when what I’m playing represents Christ. Sounds like you got a good gig so keep it up brutha. Peace
Hey, thanks for your thoughts. They come across in a generous and objective spirit. As someone who spent a few years playing Christian music professionally a long time ago, I have seen enough to believe that your observations are probably true, both the good and the bad. I am old enough to remember the 'birth' of 'contemporary Christian music' (Larry Norman's album, 'Upon This Rock' 1971), and to have seen the explosion of highly talented Christian musicians who birthed the whole genre. (Phil Keaggy, Love Song, Keith Green, Second Chapter of Acts, John Michael Talbot and others). They had to persevere in the face of criticism from conservative churches, and I'm fairly sure they didn't make a ton of money plying their trade. I had the privilege of opening for Phil Keaggy and couple of other major names, and of staying overnight in Keith Green's home before they moved to Texas. These were truly great and generous people. Green refused to sell his albums after a while, in protest against the commercialization of Christian music. He gave them away for whatever people could afford, even if it was nothing. As you say, there are people of equal quality in the field today, and, unfortunately, others who aren't operating in that same spirit. The political thing in churches isn't limited to the field of music, though. As someone who has also been a pastor, I've experienced the down side of that, too. Thanks for your observations and your honesty. We all need grace sometimes.
All of this sounds spot on from what I’ve picked up on. Thank you for sharing and checking the video out.
So much to say, put no good words to say it all. Nicky V is no better or worse than the Christians that surround him. As a child of God, Nicky V has a responsibility to speak out about the good, the bad and the ugly. There is a lot of ugly in the Church and there is a lot of Good in the Church. Perhaps this whole topic revolves around priorities. Where is the top priority of a Christian life? It should be the same top priority of a Christian musicians life, as it should be the same priority of any Christian craftsman's life. The top rung of the priority ladder is Love God and Love people. Peoples ladders seem to be mixed up......mine too sometimes. Thanks for a worthwhile video.
You are very kind and thank you for sharing your thoughts. Appreciate you checking the video out as well.
I did a little ccm before it was called ccm in Nashville in the 90’s. I noticed that it was fraught with the same problems that the rest of Nashville had. Money b money and Folks b folks I reckon. But I do give thanks to God EVERYDAY for my Sunday morning gig. Great church, great people, great gig.
Love hearing that you have a good gig now. Thank you for watching.
I started out in the early 70's working in churches voluntarily until I was paid to be a Music Director professionally. Times have certainly changed and I now feel at the bottom of the chain of talent that is out there now. Some churches require stringent standards for their music teams and others welcome outsiders. I feel if you are professing Christianity, you should be one but you should make others welcome in the process. It is a fine and hard line to legislate and we are terrible judges as we are all sinners. One thing I know to be true---when you have found the Perfect Church to join, when you you join it, it is not perfect anymore! God bless! 😊
Just sitting here noodling on my LP and listening……. Loving it. God bless you friend
Thanks for listening to my crazy ramblings man. Appreciate you hanging out
Hey great take and fair. We are all sinners including priests, popes and preachers. So let me say this…I love Christian music! It lifts me up in a dark cold world.
As a life long christian and very willing to open up about it, I've made a conscious choice to not be involved with the christian music. When you take serving the lord and make a job out of it it changes things. I just want a relationship with Jesus. I stopped touring because I didn't like the person I was and didn't feel I was following Gods plan for my life. God closed that door and moved me somewhere else.
That’s amazing. Good for you and glad you found your path.
Very good comment. A paycheck is a very powerful thing. Although playing worship music seems like it could solve a lot of problems for me, I'm extremely suspicious that it could cause much BIGGER problems...
I suppose that god will honor your honesty. Perhaps, in future, you will look back and see good things that happened because of your decision. I was in that world, and later, good things happened. All that "proves" is that luck is the intersection of preparation and opportunity. Good luck to you!
You can’t serve two masters, as the good book says. Money is tricky…
We should serve the Lord no matter what field we are in. Whether you're a carpenter, biologist, athlete, teacher, pastor, musician...etc. We all make money at our set career. Nothing wrong with that. We should share the gospel and work unto his glory always!
Thanks for a good report. I left the CCM world more than 25 years ago. It made no sense to me to turn a ministry into show business. Also mixing Christianity with politics turned me off. I'm happily making music in the acoustic coffee house and open mic world, and occasionally toss in a gospel/spiritual song. I like the Johnny Cash quote found in the comments.
Humans are the biggest hypocrites. No matter our beliefs we always find a way for our culture to get in the way. Why can't we just not worry about what others think of us and just enjoy the parts of us we like and pray for the parts of us we hate? All music is beautiful and is a gift to the human soul!
God bless the "Hellions" for being real.
I’m so glad of your experience/relationship with the Highway 96 crew. Fantastic people ❤️
Couldn’t ask for a better bunch right there.
great video. Being a Christian, I appreciate your point of view.. Keep rockin!!!
Love it. Thanks for watching
GREAT VID!! I'm a Christian musician and would love a demo vid on improving guitar chording and being creative with modern Christian music. Thank you for your candor - we can learn from it!
That’s a good idea. Might do a video along the lines of “freshen up your CCM guitar parts” or something like that
Music in church seems to be a point of contention, some want the old hymns, some want it to be contemporary while others like country styles. If that’s why they are at church then they are worshipping the music and not the Savior. When we get to Heaven we will all be singing a new song. Don’t let yourself get tripped up, music is a form of worship but the Word is where wisdom is found.
I like your honesty.
I once attended a church where the pastor had been in radio. When he converted, he was really excited to get out of all the backbiting politics of his secular radio station to work at a Christian station where he thought it would be all love and grace and forgiveness. Instead, it was much worse. The reason was that everyone was expecting everyone ELSE to be loving and forgiving to THEM rather than expecting themselves to act that ways to others. At the secular station it was restrained a little by a sense of professionalism. So it was really toxic. The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill podcast shows how churches can go really haywire when there's size and numbers and money and celebrity in the mix.
This is spot on. There’s a built in leverage on the church side it seems.
I appreciate this comment as radio guy, who thought about Christian radio for a minute, and avoided it for the same reasons I’ve been seeing in most Christian churches nowadays. It’s mostly a show. I am much more effective in my standard roles, where you can actually be a human, not a machine. it’s just a parallel sanitized version of pop culture.
Interesting. I was a traveling musician in the early seventies with a southern gospel group. We had plenty of diesel pushers on our tails. Holier than thou while in the venue then there’s the afterwards. It made me look at the business in a totally different way. And if you may ask? Commonplace.
Appreciate you checking the video out and sharing!
Yep, I played guitar about 2 years at a huge church. I was still gigging on Fridays and Saturdays so, sometimes it was ruff getting up in the mornings. I learned a lot about chords, more ambient sounds. It improved me as a guitarist. I saw my share of hypocrisy but, by and large, it was a positive experience. When I left they were upset. I just said if the Lord owns the cattle on thousand hills surely he can afford to pay a professional guitar player better😂
Thank you for sharing that. I haven’t had to deal with the budgetary issues thankfully but I’ve heard it’s definitely a problem.
@@NickyVmost playing at church is a volunteer position. Normally only the worship leader or choir leader gets paid. I’ve played at several churches with one being very large. They had 3 campuses and only the 3 worship leaders were paid. I’ve never played for money. I am a Methodist and no one gives a crap about someone having some beers. I’ve had a beer with our Pastor. Methodists are open and realistic. All of this crap that you see with the Baptist and southern Baptist are hypocrites and try to shame other people for what they call sins. They need to read the Bible and stop judging others.
@bks252 lol, yep. That is why you always take 2 Baptist with you a on fishing trip. If you take 1 he will drink all of your beer. You take 2 you got all the beer to yourself.
@@UncleDanBand64hahahahah
@user-lt6wy1eb7q Try it, it works.
I own Northern Christian Recording. Yep. an exclusively Christian facility. And you NAILED IT! Thanks for putting this up!
Right on! If you ever need some guitar recorded remotely, please reach out!
Only difference in people is some have a relationship with Jesus. Some haven't made that....this was a great and honest video. Bless you sir.
You are very kind, thank you for watching
I wrote a 23 page essay on the state of worship/ church music. I had a lot of ideas and thoughts regarding the subject, that no one seems to want to discuss
That doesn't surprise me. Many churches are social clubs with an agenda unfortunately.
where can we read it?
Lmao
Put up a link and share it.
Is there any way you could reduce it to 21 pages?
Appreciate your candor. We Christians (disciples of Christ, literally) need to be willing to see ourselves as we really are, and not as we imagine ourselves. And like your examples show, we are a very diverse group and at different places in our journey towards sanctification (fancy word for being more like Jesus). Your perspective is a refreshing & sobering glimpse into who we are when nobody is looking - in other words, who we really are, period. Thanks for doing this video, and the spirit in which it is offered.
Thank you for the thoughtful comment. Appreciate you
Hey, We all make steps towards good in Gods timing, nobody elses, we‘re not here to try to impress other people with some kind of holier than thou competition. It‘s in Gods timing, nobody elses, You do you. ☦️
Love that. Thanks for watching!
Thx Nicky, ya I use to work with a friend doing Word records and southern gospel as well. One time was working with Jimmy Buffets manager and he would say you christian record people always want everything and never want to pay for it. He was mostly right , but It was tough at times having to get enough money from record label to finish a project. Sadly now, so much less money going around for those same mid grade records.
The era of cocaine budget records is definitely over. Things are steep…lots of people to pay when it comes to making a record. Thank you for sharing your story and checking the video out.
A Hellion?...I doubt that. Your vibe is being laid back so that's why you're accepted so well. This was a great topic.
Raised plenty of hell lol but that’s probably relative. Appreciate your kind words and thanks for watching
Agreed.
It never ceases to amaze me how Jesus *constantly* warned about how the church would be filled with legitimate believers and false believers; those who claim the name of Christ but don't act in accord with their profession.
I was involved in the CCM scene in the late 80's through the early 2000's and remember back when things were VERY different.
I'm thankful for the enduring Christian connections i made during that era, and am thankful for a pastor who gave me realistic expectations for what sort of people to expect to find anywhere people claim the name of Christ.
Thank you for sharing and watching.
I auditioned for a successful Christian band in the early 90's. I had gotten saved and decided to leave the rock scene in Nashville (Yes Nashville had a rock scene even then! And there were some amazing bands back then, story for another time). I did not get the gig due to politics. I left the music industry altogether and stayed away for at least six years or more. I got tired of just the douchieness in and around the church music scene. I wasn't even that deeply involved in it, and it even I could see what was going on, and it was NOT Christ like, then you would think the church could. This and many other issues pushed me out of the church. I really do want to be a part of a church. I KNOW I loved Christ, but the hypocrisy is too much. I feel like to praise and worship section of the church has gotten out of control. I am there to hear the word of God, not to see a show and ego.
Thank you for sharing your story and experience. Appreciate you watching the video.
@@NickyV No worries! Thanks for the honesty!
Agree with you 100 percent about praise and worship music getting out hand. The problem comes in when you try and separate worship and praise as just being the music part of the service. The whole church service is praise and worship not just the music with the message (hearing God’s word) being the most important part. I’ve played in a couple different “Praise Bands” for several years and finally had enough of it. Now, I attend a church where the whole service is about God and lifting up Christ and we don’t even have a praise band. It’s definitely not about putting on a show it’s about worshiping God! My 2 cents worth!
@@donniep777 Right on!
I had the similar experience which cause me to go from playing on a worship team for 18 years in 4 diffrent churches, even being in the lead for more than half. To not even playing the guitar for over 12 years. Then God showed me what Grace really is and that I have to operate in Grace toward others. As a result I have been able to enter back into that world and play again with God giving me the Grace to tolorate and sometime minister to the issues that church music often presents. Seek God on this brother and he will make a path.
Great video. By the grace of God I have never needed to be payed for my service to the Lord. All volunteer. For me it makes things really easy.
Anyone who reaches the highest standards of musicianship needs to be working on their craft every day. It's a full time job.
The very first CCM song I had to learn for Church was easy. The verses were Thin Lizzy and the chorus was The Edge dotted echo.
Rock on, brother. As a Christian (who came into playing Pdub from the hard rock club life), I have seen some of those things you mentioned (especially when I was playing the whole megachurch thing). It's pathetic. I've learned that God is God. People are people. People complicate things and complicate the lives of other people. I finally found a nice little church (where I adamantly play as a volunteer and will not take a dime from my church) and they are awesome. Great people who generally care. It's been rubbing off on me a bit, haha. Just wanted to say, though, Be YOU. Only. I'm out of Hater-Aid currently, and all I see is a fellow musician. I totally appreciate your honesty. This is an anti-rant. :) Rooting for you!
One thing I'll add is that - as a rocker and former absolute hater of all things God (I was THAT guy) who felt God's call directly and became changed - I do think that Christian musicians who have only known Christian music are missing out on a TON of great tunes and artists to emulate. But that's just my opinion.
I was raised in church and believe in God. Although I've been a hellyen started in radio 1979 including night club DJ from sarasota to Cincinnati. My opinion and observations only when I first meet someone and right off jump they tell me their Christian my experience that becomes a train wreck. I want to hang with good people that follow the 10 commandments...frankly they don't have to be a 100 percent believer just good people. Sadly you're video post is and has been my thoughts for many years. Great post In fact I'll have to look back I think I've caught a couple of your youtube vids... keep them coming
I’m with you on that one. Good people and bad people on both sides of the coin…and a whole bunch in the middle. Appreciate you commenting and checking the video out.
Hi Nicky, thanks for the great content. I would be really interested in a video detailing how the business is handled in Nashville. Are there union wages for sessions and songwriting? How do you determine your fees for the various services you provide? When you agree to co-write, do you predetermine the split or is that more of an honor system that gets discussed later?
On the cowriting I’m not positive but I believe it’s usually split evenly and that’s what’s kind of assumed going in. The union rates for sessions are usually a solid starting point for custom projects but everybody negotiates their own rates based on the market, competition and reputation.
Probably need to do a whole video on this.
You seem like a very genuine and honest guy. Plus a great guitar player. After watching this video i subscribed. Keep up the good content
Such a good video brohammer…glad this got recommended to me! You point out some bad stuff and also the good. Very balanced and I for one, am glad you are bringing some edge to Christian music. It needs it bad…LOL!
Haha right on man. Appreciate you checking the video out
Enjoyed your conversation 👍🏼📖🙏🏼♥️🎶
Thanks for listening to me ramble haha. Appreciate you watching
Super interesting. I came across your channel this morning and have watched a lot of your videos today. As a session player and producer and Christian based in the UK I found it interesting. I don't play on 'Christian records' much per se, not because of any reason but I have more work elsewhere but hearing your perspective was interesting. I appreciate your honesty and kind heart you have for your community you have here on RUclips
Simon this is very kind of you man. Really appreciate you checking the channel out.
Played drums for a charismatic church for a few years and man did I get some chops. 2-3 hour worship services, single songs that went for 30 minutes and blood on the snare drum. Never had another gig where I had to remember to bring band-aids! Also got slightly better at dancing heh
Love this! All you cats that come from that are powerhouses.
"charismatic"...nicely put.
@@RobertFairweatherLuvMachine “really energetic non-denominational“ seemed wordy.
Keyboardist here. One congregation where I used to play was charismatic, and I know what you mean about the songs. Many times I was ready to wrap up the song before anyone else was.
Blood on my bass strings. Fun times!
The one thing that has always amazed me is that the message of the Gospel is to declare the good news to the lost, broken, sick and the poor. Music is such great tool to do this but the Church will often be critical of the style of music. It has to be old time Gospel , Hyms or the such. Bring in a song written in the style of Ozzy or Moterhead and you might as well hang up the guitar cause your not playing in that church again...... I once heard an interview with the lead singer of a very popular Christian Band and he said that with all their success and being invited to play in churches the whole world over. They have never been invited to play in the church he got saved in. Becuause of this point. I for one being a metal head growing up in the 80's needed bands like this one in my walk and some of the songs they put out have help me in some really bad times in my life. As one of thier songs says as a christian sometimes you feel like your on a beach with no place to go, so let it go and give it to God..... I play that song at 11 (as one might say) when the struggles are going down in my life.
Well done! One of the best videos I’ve seen!
So glad you enjoyed it!
I love your vids as a view into a world that I will never be in or have any other access to. Very enjoyable. I am a hobby musician and find your views and info helpful.
Thank you so much for the kind words. Means a lot and I’m so glad you enjoy it
Great video. It saddens when I hear of Christian circles that shun or judge other harshly when they make mistakes but thank God he doesn't shun you but ofference grace and forgiveness every time.
This video made me realize how lucky I am to work at the church I play at. I work at a church that is not my denomination but they have never made me feel like an outcast or pressured me to convert. My music director has come to my confirmation and wedding and supported my walk with the Lord even though it doesn't follow the theology of his church. The pastor is kind with his words when talking about any other denomination, talking about other peoples mistakes, and always reminds the congregation to pray for everyone and offer forgiveness as God forgives you "not 7 but 77 times."
Anyone, this is more a rant on my end but a few thoughts I wanted to share.
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and check the video out.
I've been trying to bust into the Gregorian chant scene for awhile but it's a bit cliquey. Cheers Nicky!
You and me both brother. Been practicing my neume reading just in case the call comes in.
Thank you for doing this! You sound so gracious and loving and generous. I, as a pastor can resonate with every singe thing you said. There are some amazing musicians like Abe Laboriel, Michael Omartian Phil Keaggy and such that are truly world class that have done stellar work. They have overcome terrible obstacles to do so in that insular bubble. It is not and never has been a healthy culture. That said, the music industry in general feels like a really abusive system in so many ways. The good news is that a lot of people are following Jesus out of the evangelical ghetto.
This is all very well said, thank you for the thoughtfulness and sharing. The minute you industrialize anything (music or meat packing) it’s going to have some issues. Have to focus on the positive for sure.
So the militant attitude is still there. It is why I walked....nothing loving about any of that. I will not play in church or do a "Christian" band ever again. I love the lord and go to church and I pray for these people. I am a working, sober hired gun in my state and everyone knows what they are getting. Zero friction for the most part and I get paid well. It's amazing how many Christian musicians I run into out there that are in a similar state of mind.
I’ve heard situations similar to yours quite a bit. Glad you found the path that works for you. Appreciate you checking the video out.
Thanks Nicky....glad you made this vid. I came from the late 60's and my band was The Royal Guardsmen.....yep, Snoopy songs. I love the time but the Lord had other plans. After 20 or so years, He gave me new songs to write and play. Scared to death about what would the Christian world think of me and my kind of music. It was a light rock I guess. Anyhoo, "Transition" came to be. Started playing churches and saw the reaction of the people and bought our CD at each sing. Knowing that this came from the Lord...I was just the vessel. Some of my friends from Nashville said to do this as an Indy. OK, so I tried to get some airplay, and did get a little, but when I contacted KLOVE, I checked all the boxes except....a label...so they wouldn't play my songs. I guess I gave up after a couple of years and hoped maybe other artists would looks at them. I do get some sales on CD Baby, etc., which I appreciate deeply.
Again, thanks for the insight and an ear. God bless ya .
Thank you for sharing your story and so glad people are enjoying your music. Thank god for CD Baby. Appreciate you and thanks for watching!
I did a 'cheesy' cover of your song about 30 years ago...reminds me of my youth... ruclips.net/video/AVjhMP9x-HU/видео.htmlsi=d2EzUvbnnC7fRP42
@@NickyV Thanks NickyV....Bless ya
KLOV$E$ not how much you love God and maybe you have an anointed song, but other connections $ work better there. Another netflix opportunity, I guess (I don't watch netflix).
@@vfam5860 Thanks vfam....I believe the songs are anointed. Coming from secular success, I walked into CCM with concerns like, are my songs too "rockish: etc. but the reaction from the people blew me away. I wasn't after big money or such, I just wanted to get played and thought KLOV would be the way. Like I was telling NickyV, being retired, I'd just like to have other artists give'em a go if they like it. God bless
Another Great Video Nicky! I did some studio work last year for a couple of Christian acts. Had a great time. The guys I worked with were pretty awesome. And yeah we had a few beers while recording :)
Haha love that!
Nothing wrong with having a few beers. Jesus doesn’t care. If you were drinking in excess, that’s a different story
@@bks252 Agreed :)
Jesus was a winemaker.
Without music life would be (a bit) dull . Many of us who really love music know that for sure . Well , over the years , we have come to realize that a couple of really talented fellows, Randy Stonehill and Phil Keaggy , are very much likened to the Lennon and McCartney of the Contemporary Christian Music World ... great songwriters !
I really enjoyed watching this video.. and really was impressed and empathetic to a lot of t he comments. Brother I could write a book on these topics.
Appreciate the kind words man. Thanks for watching
This was nice! Thanks for the insight... blessings to you man!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Appreciate your honest feedback Nicky. You make great points many of which I also observe among us.
To me, logically the main question is whether Christianity is true, which takes us to a different field: apologetics. (It certainly has an art to it though, just like music does.) If it is - and it certainly seems to be - then working with flawed people in this camp, and improving together with them, is absolutely worth it :)
There are many real Christian musicians who have been pushed or alienated out of "churches" because they were both sincere Believers and dedicated to praising the Father. They are often attacked by leadership if that leader perceives them as some sort of competitive threat even when the musician isn't competitive and just wants to be part of the team and will take on any role. (Edit: I'm not addressing those who can't really play, I mean at least moderately good musicians).
I appreciate your honesty. Fairly new to the channel but will be watching more. I grew up playing around dirk, Kelly, Scott. Sure you know these guys. I can totally relate. Also toured on a country bus. Liked it much better than all my years in sg.
Thanks Chris! Appreciate you checking the channel out
Really enjoyed your video, Nicky! I played guitar in a praise worship band at a megachurch in the late 80's /early 90's. Man, what a cluster F that was! Since I left that experience I've probably set foot in church a grand total of maybe four times!🎶" I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints, the sinners have much more fun...only the good die young."🎶😋😋
I bet that was a cluster indeed. Appreciate you watching man
Fellas-- just please don’t think “religion” is the key. It’s about believing in Jesus and what He did for ALL of us if we’ll just accept His gift. Christians certainly aren’t perfect. And obviously, everyone that goes to church are not Christians.
Love your videos! You are living the dream a lot of us hoped for as frustrated guitarists. This video especially hit home. You are 100 per cent spot on. "RELIGION" is not the answer. It's all about a personal relationship with Jesus. You have discovered a major truth. You have to as an adult investigate th Truth for yourself. Very many well meaning people have distorted the true focus. I suggest that you might grab a Bible and read the book of John. Decide for yourself. You are doing a fantastic job with all your videos. Thank you for sharing your heart and your life with us!
This is a very thoughtful and kind comment. I actually read it cover to cover (skipped some of the genealogy parts) when I was in college. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and the kind feedback.
No problem we are all in this together