The Civivi Baklash and Praxis Pocketknives: The Full Nick Shabazz Review
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- Today, we'll take a look at two fascinating knives by Civivi, WE's new budget brand, the Baklash (not Backlash) and the Praxis, which are raising the bar for a $40 knife.
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Congrats on 60K Nick! Thanks for the shout-out, WE knew you needed to see these :D
Cedric and Ada did a test with these and they came out in VG-10 range.
It's what happens when people repeat what they've heard without testing themselves. Thumbs down on this video.
"They're using relatively poor steels..." Lmao. Found the guy that doesn't actually use knives, just fiddles and flips them .
@@disco4535 nick is a nice guy with a good heart and i like his reviews because of the entertainment and his great humor, but i have to agree that he is very biased towards new/unknown steels and that his knowledge in that regard is..well, not that good😉
9cr18 when ht'd well can easily compete with vg-10. maybe not with d2 in terms of edge retention, but it outplays it with better toughness and superior stainlessness, and it is clearly a way better balanced and fitting steel for cutlery.
all in all 9cr is a very fine budget steel for edc and it doesn't have to hide from vg-10, 14c28n etc.
But isn't 9cr18mov, vg10-ish???. Yes, yes it is!!!
Looking at the Cedric and Ada test results spreadsheet, 9Cr18MoV appears to outperform VG10 by a fair margin, and compares reasonably with D2. I imagine being very thin behind the edge gives the Civivi knives an advantage in this testing, but it doesn't look like the steel is terrible.
Yeah, Nick showing his ignorance here.
Chagsis To be fair he probably filmed this before Pete released his video.
I was going to mention this, thanks for posting it! I think VG-10 is a bit outdated these days.
Right
Yeah, I was going to say similar. Also in terms of composition 9cr and vg10 share similar quantities of carbon and carbide formers. 9cr has some nitrogen in there to boot, which will substitute for carbon and also help hardness like what the cobalt does in vg10. Granted, quality of heat treatment can change everything but 9cr, as far as I'm concerned, is just as good as vg10.
For 42 bucks they even include a nice zipper case. These are a true bargain.
One of the best values in all of knifehood or EDC-Shire
Nick trashing the steel on these knives is so ignorant. They outperform or match VG-10 and are excellent for a budget steel. Arguably the best budget steel out there.
I agree. On par with 14c28n imo.
@@UltraDude2000 Which brands cause my Baklash holds an edge better than my leek
Anyone expecting technical information regarding blade steel performance from an influencer channel could be called the same.
@@gheckolock81 most knife reviewers are very knowledgeable about such things in my experience. Nick usually gets it right. On this one, he didn’t.
Someone at SOG was sweating watching this
Nick you usually make updates when info is wrong. Hoping to see one here. The steel rant is off base. I understand it’s hard to keep track of all of the steels but 9cr is not 8cr. It’s just as good as vg10 if not better and very comparable to d2.
Josh I’d like to hear an update too.
Let’s look at the caliber of most of the knives Nick reviews. Many of them are S35VN, 20CV or M390(same as 20CV) 9CR is not in the same ballpark as these steels and I think that’s why Nick said what he said.
@@sinjon he said they were nowhere near as good as D2 or VG-10.
@@sinjon Recent tests have put Civivi's 9CR18MOV above their D2, above both Benchmade and Spyderco's S30V, and above most M390 and 20CV you'll find. It shouldn't be so, but what it comes down to is, Civivi is doing an excellent job on their heat treatment of their 9CR18MOV, and almost no one does an optimal heat treatment on D2 or fancy powder steels.
@@matthewsbernier I mean, when all you do is flip the knives, run your mouth about them while recording it and never actually put them to work, does it even matter how the steel actually performs?
I find myself playing with my Praxis a lot. The flipping action is very satisfying. I'd love to see one for $20 - $30 more with S35VN. One thing I didn't hear Nick mention was the lack of billboarding. There is no text anywhere on the blade, handle, or clip. The only indication of the maker is a subtle Civivi logo on the pivot. Definitely makes the whole package more elegant!
If you look at the word "CIVIVI". The two v's form a "W" and the three i's are the way WE knives form an "E" in their logo on the pivot screw. Thus you have WE. I can't account for the "C" but the rest of my theory looks good. Neat, huh?
Frank Salem I’ll buy that.
I love it!
C could stand for Cheap or Cheaper then you have Cheap(er) WE
Well done!
C. M. M.
CHINA METALS MANUFACTURING
I have 2 expensive Benchmade knives that take a backseat to a Praxis. Thanks for your ideas and very good review.
Been carrying a Praxis for about 3 weeks. Very nice. I like a larger knife, but it’s not as heavy as you would think. Blade is large. I really like the forward Choil and use it a lot at work.
Same here! Use at work EVERY DAY. I have the OD green Praxis with gold liners.
Just got a Praxis about a week ago...great knife, especially for the price. It feels good in hand and the action is so smooth. Well done, Civivi! I can think of no knife better for $42.
Civivi 9cr is legendary In my experience after owning this knife for 3 years
Just ordered the Baklash with the ebony wood handle for the collection.
But 9cr18mov is better or comparable to VG-10?! Other than that, great video.
It's kinda like the irrational way he keeps spitting at N690, despite it being a lot better performing than 440C, and better than VG10. Meanwhile, S35Vn costs more than three times as much (at least in Europe), and only performs 130% of 440C in terms of Edge retention (as can be read on CPMs data sheet)
@@93tedd In the USA the steel prices are less but whether its worth the difference is a different story
@@midnightstudio3742 I personally don't think it's that superior. I have the brass scale version with 154cm steel baklash and brass scale d2 elementum. I personally prefer 154cm steel over d2 and think its a good balance. I've never had 9cr18mov but what I've read it seems like a good steel for budget knives. I would still prefer the 154cm over it but I also wouldn't mind it
@@Deadtileyedie My dude you replied to a comment from 2 years ago. The steel holds fine for me.
I just hope that Spyderco ups the game with the Byrd line.
I love the pivot logo on mine, got the green backlash as an early birthday present from my wife and I love it. my first flipper and my first pocket knife over $25 very pleased.
This is my first civivi and I love it. I'll be buying more.
I was with you Nick, but the 9cr18 really surprised me, in use and then Cedric & Ada's steel test , WE has done an excellent job with the heat treat . Knives like this are putting a huge amount of pressure on other knife companies, so Kershaw , CRKT , ECT, I hope you guys have a plan , because you haven't shown us anything .
the recent Kershaws in s35vn and M390 for similar pricing is a start in the right direction
ETC*
Bad-Steel-WE LOL. Now, I was skeptical of 9Cr18. But after trying a backlash for a while, I'm not too sure these steels have anything to envy VG10. IMO VG10 is pretty average, especially Spyderco's. Pete's number's put this steel in line with Spidie VG10 and it feels the same in use. So I tend to agree with the WE guy: aside from a slightly better (but chippier) Kizer version, VG10 is pretty much the same. But people can pay $20 more for Civivi VG10 models.
VG-10 might only seem average but it has the benefit of being decent across the board. It holds a reasonable edge for a reasonable length of time. It isn't hard to sharpen. It's fairly resistant to corrosion. It's a good everyday knife steel. If 9Cr18Mov can really compete with it for less, I'd be interested.
9cr18mov is on par with VG-10 edge retention wise.
Can't wait to see what the Shabazz has to say about the new models with ceramic bearings and VG-10 for $68!
Kyle the Aquila is my new favorite but I still give the praxis it’s deserved pocket time. They’re both effing beautiful. This are not budget by any means ... except for the price of course.
I remember a time, not too long ago, when I wouldn't even consider buying a knife made in China. Now with WE/Civivi, Bestech, Spyderco Taichung (Taiwan) etc, I am absolutely all in. Still love American made knives but like in the auto industry in the 80s and 90s when Japanese cars really made American car manufacturers take a long hard look at the quality they were putting out, I think these Chinese knife manufacturers will have a similar impact, which is good for all.
As a man who absolutely loved the tenacious (the first Spyderco I owned) I was completely blown away by the fit and finish of the Praxis. For one they give you a nice lined pouch to put it in, second the weight feels great on the knife (not heavy and not light, very balanced), deep carry pocket clip, and lastly the flipping action is spot on every time.
One thing I love about my Praxis is that Civivi avoided the temptation to billboard all over what is a beautiful form. The only thing that identifies the maker is a subtle "C" on the pivot. I have a bunch of more expensive, fancier knives, but I keep coming back to the Praxis for the action and the form.
Buzzby1949 That’s what i, like Nick, hate about most Zero Tolerance knives. They feel the need to plaster ZT everywhere. It drives me insane on the pocket clip.
Hey Nick good market discussion I agree these make things tough for the overseas produced US competitors
cedric and ada got a civivi praxis with 9cr18mov up to 210 cuts compared to 220 cuts for D2 with a similar edge in an ontario rat 2. we've seen trash heat treat on D2 perform very poorly.
A trashy heat treatment can make any steel perform horribly. It's not unique to D2.
I swear by the tumbnail, I thought these are worth so much more. I am honestly shocked, thanks for making me want another knife. The fact that you said it's a cheaper Wee knives just to see if you like them sounds really good. I don't have a lot of knives but I want to look up to some companies that are high end in the future for sure!
Why you hating on 9cr18mov?
Cool blades, thanks for showing those to us!
Got my Praxis yesterday. Love it. It’s large but I’m a big guy so it fits my hand perfectly. The steel is fine with me. Sure it’s not S30V but I can sharpen it easier with just a stone and oil. Been waiting for your opinion on these thanks
I agree. Most other budget knives do not compare at all to the 2 civivis I own. I would have never thought I could get the fit and finish and smoothness for the money. They make perfect edc's so I don't have to use my higher end knives at work. I got the brass scale baklash with 154cm steel(which I feel like is a upgrade to the base version ) after getting the brass scale elementum and being VERY impressed. The brass scale 154cm baklash is absolutely amazing even compared to my high end knives and customs and the brass looks beautiful after it starts to petina with use and Makes it pretty much custom since every knife petinas a little different . They are really changing the budget knife game in my opinion for the better!
Actually it would be 18 CR as in 18% chromium, not MO as in molybdenum.
Just to be pedantic.
I’m good with the compromise of the steel.
They should make the gold liner with the green scales and black blade.
Can you imagine a Tenacious in a steel upgrade?
Matt Szymanski I’d buy one again if it was a least VG10. I couldn’t handle the 8cr. It was terrible
Yeah, the Tenacious is great.....except for the blade. Problem is, if they made it S30V, S35VN, it'd be a $150+ knife. But they could make it, say...154CM, or CPM-154, and sell it for a slight uptick in price.
I bet you were happy to hear that Spyderco is coming out with the S35VN version of the Tenacious. The 8Cr is what has held me off, but now I'm interested with the upgraded steel. At just under $100 ($98), that's not bad at all. Still Chinese made, but it's still American steel. Only thing I would change are the FRN handle scales since I don't like Spyderco's FRN. Or FRN in general. I'd upgrade the scales and have a nice Tenacious that I could be happy with, because truth be told, it's a good design, but wasn't really worth the money with 8Cr.
@@OEFvet0311 I have a Tenacious but prefer the Byrd Raven in Bd1. In my humble opinion the raven has better ergonomics and steel. Id love to see Spyderco's budget line follow a 35 dollar mark with a Sandvik steel.
@@spanishnavaja I'm wating for a Pm2 in Lc200n / Z FiNit steel.
9Cr18MoV outperforms VG10, it is a great budget steel.
Everything I wanted to say halfway through the video Nick touched on, and everything else on my mind is in the other comments.
All I can say is I hope this will push certain brands to refrain from price hikes and start offering knives with “good to go” materials at more reasonable price points.
Imagine a ‘gem’ M390 Sypderco for sub $100/$120. It’d fly.
My favorite budget line and out performs my Delica.
Agreed! I have the brass scale version with 154cm steel baklash and it's AMAZING for the money! Fit and finish is superb, action is as smooth as or smoother then alot of my high end knives that cost way more. Blade centering is perfect, zero blade play, nice detent and absolutely beautiful brass scales! I won't say it out preforms my spyderco para 2 but I will say I personally think it is just as good knife as my para 2 and 100$ or so cheaper(paid 70$ for the brass scale 154cm version which I think is a upgrade to the base model since it uses superior steel and brass scales which I'm a sucker for brass/copper. Personally I think it's far superior to my tenacious which is around the same price range and is a good budget blade as well. These civivis and a few others are really raising the bar for budget knives and its awesome!
I know the review was over a year ago. Wish I had seen them earlier. Can't help but wonder how the Praxis for example compares to the Spyderco Shaman.
which one do you like better?
When you look at the numbers, 9cr18 is VERY comparable to D2 and VG10.
Which numbers?
@@NickShabazz other than corrosion resistance? Pretty much all of them.
Check out this video. This steel performs really well in this test.
ruclips.net/video/s2MGsyodJkI/видео.html
@@NickShabazz admit you dropped the ball on this review in regards to the steel. You normally do a great job keep up the good work.
Your pivot screw isn’t seated on the Praxis, it might be a bit off on the Baklash too.
Swear I was just looking at these last night. Thanks nick!
Could someone recommend a good replacement clip?
Btw Baklash in black is sold out across the board. That’s great it means more from Civivi!! They had some different color versions at Blade Show West. Not everyone can cough up 150 for a g10 BM.
A 3.5" flipper weighing under 4oz is a heavy knife? Perhaps when you're used to being comped titanium frame locks like Nick.
So I spent 150 on a spyderco Sage 5 about 6 months ago, and picked up a civivi strattera for 60 about a month ago or so. They’re similar in fit and finish and quality. The spyderco is S30V vs the civivi in D2, but at under half the price they’re a great buy.
I wonder if NS is confusing 9Cr18MoV with 8Cr13MoV.
I think Ganzo has a stake in the new 'standard' of budget knife as well Nick. Their 2018/19 offerings have D2 steel, bearings, sculpted G-10 scales, nested liners, etc., with great fit and finish. And all for a price in the mid-twenties! I have a few and am quite pleased.
I thought the 9cr18mov was comparable to 440c ?
Now we don't have to put up with American companies selling us overpriced Chinese products. A Chinese product at a Chinese price and high quality.
Civivi just does great heat treats. 9cr18mov Is good, especially on a knive with perfect ergonomics. I use my knives and the one steel on a knife I like better is cruewear. I field dressed a white tail buck last year and my praxis was still sharp. Of course I hit it on my strop afterwards. But it held great.
I received a praxis to give a proper opinion , $42. Wasn’t too impressed at first but the action is really smooth and the weight is nice and light and the blade is super thin ! And not as small as one might think .It s defintely not a knife to take into the woods like the ganzo 720 has been and I’m sure there’s way more like it 👍👍, I love them all . This paradise looks and feels like an around the him cutter for food or anything else , light duty but I m sure it can handle much more . Looking for a stress test on these next . I also like the feldspar . Prob won’t buy any more knives for a Minute but thanks to reviews I made some good choices I m happy with . You , Jay from the knife beater 👍👍
Definitely gonna have to pick up both of these
thanks for your detailed reviews nick!
A coworker of mine purchased a Backlash. I was pretty impressed overall for a budget knife. I had to repair the stripped pivot the owner...stripped but otherwise, nice. Thanks for the review!
Mr.Shabazz for these since I got one. What's a good budget sharpener
Do either of these sharpen well on a KME? The weird grinds on the spine look like they might not be held securely
9cr18mov isn't all that bad actually, especially for the price. It seems to compare to vg10 in my test, but I find it easier to sharpen overall.
Nice looking action on both new to your channel. Long time knife fan new to out to the public collector thanks for a great channel I really appreciate your insight in the knife world keep it up.
The steel here might not be exciting but it's definitely a step up from all the AUS-8 or 8Cr13Mov we see for less than $50. They treat it well and give it good geometry. I'd say that's a win. They have nice knives in D2 or VG-10 for just a little more. Speaking of, what don't you like about VG-10?
I actually have a couple of knives that are 9Cr18Mov and they are really good knives. The blade steel is way better than 8Cr13Mov or 8Cr14Mov and I would not be ashamed to own one that has a 9Cr18Mov blade.
i wonder if we learned this stuff from the ferrum forge comps with massdrop
Your disadvantages are actually my advantages. I prefer the "civivi" name over "we" because civivi actually sounds like a premium Italian name. I prefer a heavier knife because i don't want my knives feeling cheap. I also prefer bigger knives because I want the pocket knife feel and not a utility knife feel. Lastly, I am going to repeat everybody here in the comments, the Civivi 9cr18mov got 90 cuts on factory edge which is comparable to d2 and with 17 degree, it gets 210 cuts.
Excellent review, Nick, as always. I just made some other purchases recently, so I’ve decided to wait until the next paycheck to order three Civivi’s. Between you and Pete, you have me convinced.
2 greats?
Damn this really is a gem.
I'm in trouble, I recently discovered civivi and they have so many knives that are both cheap AND good. I have at least 5 that I want to buy after I've already gotten an elementum but ive somehow managed not to get another one yet.
The Praxis is a beautiful knife. After watching this review I was gonna buy one, but.... they dont seem to be in stock anywhere (except the blue or orange variants. Yuck). Does anyone have any info on why they cant currently be found?
The blue is nice
Nick , Check out the Eafengrow EF335 Tactical - D2 Steel, an amazing knife
Great report,Sir.Thank you and take care!
Yeah buddy . Ordered the praxis black blade and green scales
Beautiful knives
So if someone, hypothetically, has a Civivi Baklash with limp action... like the flipper opens the knife 35% but it requires a ton of wrist action to get it to lock open... is this something that can be serviced at home? Doesn't seem gritty or any such thing. Maybe it's all in a weak detent.... anyway, it does heppen.
I would contact Civivi about it.
I only have 2 but both of mine have a perfect detent and the action is great.
@@BlueWingedRino Good suggestion. I feel dumb for not having done this already!
I have only heard good things about their warranty department.
Good luck.
So how do these rank with the Rat1 in D2, or the Cutjack in D2....
A pecking order of top 5 under $50.
In other words, if already have and using the Rat and the Cutjack why buy one of these.
If have none and starting out can not go wrong with a top 5 group knife.
yogililly1 I also want to know how this compares to the cutjack because I want to order a flipper soon and I would like to know which one is better...
These things are honestly completely on another level in terms of fit and finish. Seriously i got the praxis almost a week ago and cant stop flipping it. I dont know if i’ll ever carry any of my other knives ever again.
All theses knives with great action. Takes less skill and precision to get a great action compared to washers. Washers are better. Why am I spending more than 100$ on a knife? Some fancy super steel that’s hard to sharpen. Glad the market is flooded with these budget knives. Competition will bring out some sweet knives. Thx Gem Hunter.
Didn’t pete from Cedric & ada test it and it come out in the vg10 range I would consider that pretty awesome for how much you pay for them
G10, 9CR18MOV, ceramic bearings, reversible deep carry clip, lanyard hole, smooth action, fit and finish, balance… these are certainly not sub-$50 knives. These could easily be priced at $75 and they’d still be a good deal.
And 9CR18MOV beats VG10 and has similar redhead retention as D2 but has better corrosion resistance, so it’s hard to say D2 is actually better.
Nice review! Is praxis smoother and have better quality than ontario rat 1 ?
Thanks :)
Thank you, Nick! Review the Civivi Incite please!
I really hope S30V eventually gets as cheap as VG10 so we can have $40-$60 powdered steel knives...
I think Boker makes an S30V Kalashnikov for about $60
It’s the saber ground blade too.
Just saw Cedric and Ada video about this steel. Comparable to VG10 and D2.
As soon as I heard your voice I would have guessed you had a friend named Frankie LOL. No disrespect man I got a buddy that lives on Long Island to talk to the same way
SOG is effed in the A.
Yeah there's no sog I've seen in the same price range that can even kind of compare to the 2 civivis I own( brass scale elementum and brass scale baklash with 154cm). They really take budget knives to another level with there fit and finish, smooth ball bearing action, great detent and blade centering. I paid 70$ for my brass scale 154cm steel baklash(which I personally feel like it's a upgrade to the base model I prefer 154cm steel over even d2 much less 9cr13 used in the base model) and it's very impressive even compared to my high end and customs. They are both in my carry rotation and I would have paid even more for my baklash if ask to!
If they start making some slightly smaller models with just sub 3" blades and D2 steel is don't see why anyone would want/need any other knife unless they are going for pocket jewelry. Extremely competitive offerings.
Off topic Nick ,but now that the titanium chaparral is $129.00. Would you prefer it over the carbon fiber mode? @ that price?
I was pretty shocked when I received this one. The blade is a little thin, but otherwise it is perfect. It feels like an $80 knife. Nick talked in depth, and was right on target, so I won't repeat. I have recently bought an Artison Cutlery, and a Bestech knife. Unlike the Praxis, these looked, and felt cheap. The action, fit, and finish were good though.
I’d usually agree w you abt the sub brands, but if there’s gonna be a sub brand, I think We Knives/Civivi are doing it way better than any of the other brands.
Also, I wish civivi offered these in a D2 (and even in CPM 20CV, but I realize that’s unlikely bc even We knives doesn’t use that or the nearly identical M390 very often) for like $20 more. Come on Civivi, they would sell like crazy, I promise
Nick can you post a comparison of the Praxis and the Spyderco Shaman? Maybe on the Instagram.
Easy on the steel snobism bro. VG10 IS and upgrade, it is a steel with great qualities and if you got that Praxis with VG10 instead of 9cr for 40USD , that's a steal
Hm no. There's a fair amount of difference in between these steels.
On the subject of these hitting sporting goods stores, I think in a lot of places this is a long way off. The power of SOG, Buck, Gerber, some Kershaw models, is that they’re so ingrained in the market that it’s going to be very hard to dislodge them. Someone who doesn’t keep up to date on brands, models, trends, and the like won’t know these are out there. And frankly I doubt most of them care. The people who go on down to the local sporting goods store, grab something off the shelf that looks “good enough”, and checks out. Brand recognition is a powerful thing.
This is exactly correct. I was in a sporting goods store today looking at knives. There was one guy (me) checking out Benchmades and 5-7 dudes looking at the sog/Gerber knives talking about how nice they look. I understand not everyone wants to spend over $100 on a knife, but if you're gonna drool over knives, they should be good knives.
Nice looking knives , for 40 bucks I like the green one
So the question is how does it compare to the other great 40 dollar edc knives like.. the Rat 2??
Your philosophical asides are as astute as your observations about gear. Well done. 60K ftw.
I get that it's not a great steel BUT it according to petes testing is pretty equivalent to vg10 which again isnt a GREAT steel but pretty good for 42$ in my opinion, great review though! love the videos!
Civivi stands for CVV2 code on your credit card they're after.
Benchmade takes your last buck, Spyderco entangles your soul, and you're worried about a piece of plastic😲
Civivi Aquila or Courser reviews $68 ceramic bearings and vg-10
Great minds think alike. I did my review on the Baklash a few days ago. Validation!
This does make me want a WE for sure!!