Noam Chomsky debates Patrick Bet-David on Capitalist Institutions and Wage Slavery
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- Опубликовано: 24 мар 2024
- Noam Chomsky debates Patrick Bet-David on Capitalist Institutions and Wage Slavery, #noamchomsky #chomsky #capitalism #patrickbetdavid
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It’s like trying to teach algebra to your dog.
Not much of a debate, more of a lesson
Definitely! Noam should stick to language and stay out of economics
@@Motivate-and-Win you don't agree with his stance? Whats your take ?
@@RacingAxe I feel like chomsky's view completely removes human nature from the equation.
There's no doubt issues with capitalism, and power often leads to corruption and exploitation.
However, capitalism is so far the best system we have created in terms of generating a functional society.
The alternatives Chomsky proposes have an awful track record. And Chomsky also has a history of outright denying this reality. You can look up his denial of the Cambodian Genocide while it was occurring, due to the fact that it conflicted with his predictions.
Like watching a haughty schoolboy entering the Octagon to fight Khabib Nurmagomedov.
Patrick, please consider sticking to selling gabagool on the internet. Don't make a fool of yourself by debating someone like Chomsky. It's embarassing.
Noam is 100% right, the other guy's ego is suffering and that is all.
He runs a MLM ( pyramid scheme ). He is a fucking scammer 😂😂
Why is Noam Chomsky telling a guy who runs a MLM that workers get separated from the fruits of their labour ?
It’s literally his business model 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Patrick is the most insufferable human being.
i am not even close to those ppl in education and knowledge and yet i understood what chomsky said from the first sentence. that guy shaking his head in disagreement is just disagreeing to the part where he would give up his "power" over workers to the extent that he has them.
Professor Noam Chomsky ❤😊
The intelligence delta between these two is unprecedented in modern history.
Nice video !
Good Stuff
Appreciate it
Those who create businesses do so for "noble" reasons, to give their fellows work? Oh, please---
Yes, I am so sick of that reasoning, that and "trickle down economics".
@@ConciseChomsky Taught 15 years at a Business school/university and not one student knew the meaning of "profit," the core of their machine. Check Oxford English Dictionary etymology---it means taking more than you give in an exchange. It cannot work without lies, misery and violence and because it's also close to "advantage," it always finds a way around reform.
@@UploadPicture-bp6dw Try Barnes Ignoble!
Should I work for two decades save save save & borrow a large sum of money to open a business for YOUR "LIVING WAGE?" You open a business and show us all how it's done. You slugs havent a clue. Thank God there are millions of brainless Govt Hack Jobs for you Libs to find.
My Hero Noam Chomsky
Businesses do not create businesses to employ people, they create them to make money. People are hired to facilitate the generation of profit which the capitalist takes, and they hire the minimal amount of people and pay them as little that they can get away with. The structure of the workplace for the vast majority of people in the world is authoritarian, they are told how to work, what to wear, when they can take a break (if they can), how long the break can be, how many hours they work, how they should behave (often outside of work too), often expected to carry work home with them (whether it's buying necessary items for their job like boots or approved clothes or the expectation that they're accessible at all times etc), they don't get to decide who is hired or fired, they don't get to decide their benefits, they don't get to decide their pay, it goes on and on.
PBD's rightwing comment section is on Noam Chomsky's side fascinating. Atleast PBD was brave enough to bring him on unlike Daily Wire
Thanks, that is interesting to know.
Patrick Bet-David always comes across as wince-inducingly ignorant impostor. He's always wearing the expression of someone who fears getting exposed every second of the day.
“The second aspect of the development of the market in labor involves the separation of workers from their instruments of production. By the time of the American Revolution when private property was the rule, the ownership of the means of production was still quite widespread. About 80% of the nonslave adult males in the United States were independent property owners or professionals - farmers, merchants, traders, craftsmen or artisans, businessmen, lawyers, doctors, and so on. By 1880, this figure had fallen to 33% and, at present, more than 90% of all adults in the labor force are non managerial wage and salary workers. In the course of this transformation to a wage-labor system, the family farm fell to corporate agri-business; craft-organized shops were replaced by the factory system; and the services became bureaucratized” (“Schooling in Capitalist America” by Samuel Bowles & Herbert Gintis page 59). In short, America started out as a society of self-employed laborers with their own property independent of any kind of managerial control. Today this is all but virtually gone.
Patrick literally ran a MLM to make his money, this is completely the wrong guy to explain this to lmao.
PBD is a textbook example of what I think about when I think of capitalist cheerleaders, or actually it's closer to cultists. They've got their sermon down and can't be altered. They're perfect for that type of system though.
At least PBD listened and didnt behave like a c***, like so many of the people that disagree with Noam do when they debate him
Noam thinks the "system" isnt made up of individuals or at least ignores the fact because then the exaof worker turned business owner destroys his argument
Patrick : … you continue to take the extremely naive point of view! 😊so poetic!
Pat is obsessed with capitalism!
If you watch the whole interview Patrick said Noams view was naive first..from then on N9loam was butthurt and called Patrick naive at every opportunity.
a sin? holy? who is this bet-david guy?
I agree with Chomsky’s premise but just saying run a business democratically needs to be expanded. People need to be informed, their biases and educational level accounted for. People are to easily manipulated and distracted. Their emotions used against them. You tell me it’s a good idea for businesses to be ran democratically when we see how it plays out in politics and government should give us pause. The wealthy runs this “democratic” country shows you how fragile if not useless democracy is. Perhaps we should be looking for/creating alternatives.
Yes, I agree, it will take a paradigm shift on how people think. It will take a long time to remove peoples biases, and see the benefits of controlling their own work.
@@ConciseChomsky we humans are generally creatures of habit not reason. If we are not raised to think critically and objectively, the chances that enough people will make the necessary changes is not likely. Add in all the other corrupting influences and stagnant ways of thinking, the future looks very grim. I don’t wish this to be the case but this is what the evidence clearly points to.
Once could argue that if the tyrannical structures in capitalism were more participatory at the labor level, our democratic institutions would, as a result, not be dominated by corporate interests.
@@fishbone3333 the problem is capitalism creates and rewards the tyrannical structures. They are not some anomaly.
Too much intellectuality. It's not necessary. The experiment has already been performed, perhaps by means of trial and error, but successfully in many cases. There are things called worker cooperatives, which maybe are more prominent in Argentina. People who have worked in them are generally not going back to the old way, according to them. Anyone could start one if he had other like minded people, and it doesn't require a complex reeducation process, only an interest in being independent. They have template constitutions which you can read and if you agree with it then it can be your guide. Work has already done to solve the " problems" of a new framework, a new way of doing things. Fear of change and Unwillingness to experiment is the only thing blocking. Change. You intellectuals seem to need a theoretical framework already in place that answers all your questions but that is not how real change comes about. People find answers to problems through experimentation and creativity, not all this intellectuality.
PBD did not understand the concept
Because he wasn’t willing to really listen
I quickly feel ashamed when I leave the critical analysis of many speeches, but I'm exhausted to see that right-wing rhetoric is nothing more than a metronome between opaque demagoguery (when the urgency of the situation demands a pressing rethink) and slandering the slightest moderation on individualism or insulting meaningless terms like “woke”. The right cries like a skunk at a danger that exists only for its privileges, and that the slightest progressive or activist idea is deemed criminal. In Belgium, a media outlet (which coincidentally only invites centrists or rightists) went so far as to add circus music to mock a minister who assumed her support for peace over the genocide in Gaza. And finally, these hypocrites who, after having dismissed everything barely to the left of them in the “wokism” camp, praise the construction of a world based on pluralism, what a load of crap. From the inception of universal suffrage to the present day, I have never been able to attest to anything constructive on the right.
In no way is my employer my master. I can quit anytime I wish and have many other job prospects...My employer also pays into my health insurance, workers comp, retirement, social security and more. I could go on and on.... I disagree with Chomsky.
You're just describing a relatively benevolent master and making the same mistake Patrick does. The point is the same: you 'subordinate yourself' to the company, which is a top-down hierarchy, and you do what they tell you or you can leave and starve. This is what is in conflict with human values and meaningful democracy. People should have more control over the institutions that govern their life.
I believe it is often the case that the workforce is not knowledgeable enough to manage all the details of running most businesses. I believe that Chomsky has oversimplified things here.
Chomsky has expounded on the structure of the business, I will have to do a video on it. But, think a anarcho-syndicalist system, such as the company Mondragon.
@@ConciseChomsky Thank you for your considerate reply. Your thoughts are appreciated. I support Chomsky's general approach. However, I find his motivational attributions rather conjectural. Put differently, Chomsky creates a nice narrative, but I am encouraging a stronger empirical foundation where possible.
Thanks again for your comments. Cheers, Paul
Progressive Movement is here.
New subs to your 2nd Channel 😊 🍀
Je respecte M Noam Schomski pour son Génie intellectuel et son amour de l'Humanité 🙏🎉💯👏👍❤️
Man listening to this guy attempt to debate Chomsky is like watching a 1st grader intellectually joust with an astrophysicist. The guy literally can’t pull himself out of the i rigidly individual mindset to understand institutional realities. This isn’t a debate it’s a lecture with a problematic kid that sticks his fingers in his ears and goes “blah blah blah blah”.
To produce "profit" you must by definition take more than you give. That can never "work" except for a tyrannical few. Look up the word in the Oxford English Dictionary and see how its etymology shows exactly that.
every natural hierarchy of competence is a bell curve, with few at the top and bottom and the majority in the MIDDLE.
/\ pyramid hierarchies are artificial and integral to capitalism/profit, there has to be a very large base in a capitalist hierarchy in order for profit to be generated, profit is not possible in a natural bell curve hierarchy.
capitalism is UNNATURAL and abusive because of that fact.
This guy is so naive and totally believing the capitalist nonsense. Chomsky has so much patience.
Chumpsky couldnt run a Lemonade Stand. He's been a lifelong govt hack slug that never set a pinky in the private sector. PBD has grown Businesses where he pays a large amount of people very high six figure $ incomes. Wake up lefty.
Even Norm had a master and is a master. The books he erite makes him reports to a master and the people eho print snd distribute his books makes him a master. Ee sre sll madtets and slaves from the moment we learn of sales and marketing...from eve bought into the idea of the apple. Norm has been a wonderful sales and maketing manager...selling an idea. We sll do
This interview should not have happened. Noam Chomsky should only be interviewed by intellectual people. This Patrick is clearly not one of them. This was embarrasing.
You have to admit, it was fun to watch Chomsky effortlessly dissect the man's entire raison d'etre.
Chomsky has been pants on head crazy for like 40 years at least.
Really, in the top 5 most intelligent humans on earth. But some arse called @Rallylabs is the man..😂
This is a guy thinks that work is created to make jobs for people.
No - they are not Philanthropic - they are in the game to make a profit.
There's no good or evil here - just profit.
You make profit by the exploitation of labour.
Put roughly the company pays a worker much less than the actual value of their labour.
The difference between the actual value and what the worker gets paid for it is usually the profit.
This is paid in dividends and not wages to the shareholders.
The shareholders get paid for not doing anything except coming up with their initial investment.
In a massive Corporate this exploitation and its returns are magnified much more than Joe's Hardware Store with 10 employees
You can call it The Scaling of Profit.
You could call this robbery but the Capitalist State ( like the interviewer ) calls it a right.
The arguement is everyone participating I that endeavor should have a say in how the pie is split. The dividends ALWAYS outpace the wages over time
"put roughly the company pays a worker much less than the actual value of their labour."
^ This is the fatal flaw in your reasoning. This presupposition is the foundation of similar errors. My brother does landscaping services for a relatively small business. He is paid $20/hr for his labor. The company he works for bills customer $200/hr for that labor. According to the above reasoning my brothers labour is "actually" worth $200/hr and he is being cheated out of the other $180 per hour which is the companies "profit." But his labor alone is actually NOT worth $200/hr it is the *finished product/service* which is worth that.
He is provided with vehicles, equipment, tools, fuel, insurance, training, and a license all by the company. Never mind the marketing and arranging for jobs to be performed by the company. The $200/hr the customer is paying is NOT simply for his labour - it is his labour (and his two fellow workers) AND all those others things - a professional license, a reputable business who has been around 20 years and has good reviews, the insurance in case someone was injured on site, proper equipment, the vehicles for hauling things away - ALL of this is provided by the company otherwise my brother could do it on his own but he can't. No more than a fast food worker can go out and butcher a cow to make someone a hamburger.
Beyond that the person who came up with the initial investment (some forty thousand dollars he had spent years saving) for the business had a statistical chance of more than 50% to literally NOT earn a profit and to simply go out of business. That's the risk. If there is no profit why would he risk his savings?
There are important critiques of capitalism but this "labor theory of value" is flawed from the start.
Its so sad to see all these people agreeing with chomsky... I hope they read a book one day... chomsky is arguing against something we dont have, we dont have capitalism, we have chrony-capitalism... if we had real free market capitalism, Chomsky woudent be doing these debates as he would be too busy flying around in his eco-copter-3000 from his house in greece to his mansion on the coast
Crony-capitalism is literally just capitalism but with another word before it. When has there ever been a genuinely “Free Market”?
Chomsky Is talking about the capitalism we have now, in reality...you dont have to read about fantasy capitalism, just see the real one.
If you’ve ever wondered what very old adolescent looks like, look no further than Noam. With that high of an iq, to hold onto these views right to the end takes an astounding amount of belligerence and or resentment.
which views do you mean
Communism convinces the worker that they'd rather be a slave. Happens every time.
In real life though, Capitalism actually enslaved tens of millions of people just in the Americas alone over the course of 400 years.
Noam confronted with reality doesn't look that smart.
Jey PDB if you can't run with the big dogs stay in the porch