"Oh, yea, I have a PhD in Raiding, I started in open studies that became a major in Shield Walling and then took a minor in Longship navigation, so becoming a Raider was a natural progression. There's not much money in any other field with these qualifications, really, unless you want to get into risky land-battles or spend ALL of your time at sea."
Sure, but every Jarl that interviewed me wanted me to have a doctorate, and 3 years of raiding experience. For an entry level raiding position! Ridiculous.
I got my masters in tower defense, i really regret it. I thought I would be throwing plague corpses at the crusaders down below, but now all i do is watch out for highwaymen and twiddle my thumbs waiting to raise and lower the portcullis.
Ok, PhD supervisor here….I’ve helped 9 students finish and 4 students quit and in each case it really was the best thing. I’ve been worried about you for some time with all the content creation work and the stand-up and the PhD because it is hard enough to do any one of these, let alone all three, because all these things draw on your creativity and energy at the same time. Trying to do them all is roadmap to working yourself to death. So congratulations on crossing your Rubicon and thanks for being so awesome in this video-totally classy, not taking easy cheap shots at the people who stay in the academy, but ALSO not diminishing yourself or your own choices. I’m excited for all your next things.
I became a patron of The Welsh Viking bc I fell in love with the whimsey and humor of a young man who likes the same kind of things I like and wanted to foster that creativity. TBH, I kind of dreaded losing your crazy rabbit holes, cemetery ramble talks, and reenactment sewing projects to some dusty university that could very well suck the joy out of you. There is no shame in saying, "This no longer serves me, I'm not enjoying it and I want to do something else." As it stands, a Masters degree in archeology is a fine accomplishment, opportunity is happening along and you've built a robust RUclips channel. That's a whole business, right there!. You have my total respect for prioritizing your happiness and health. I'm 100% certain you will thrive, whatever you do. Much love to you from this history geek granny.
I failed to get my bachelors and came out with a diploma. I didn't get the programming job and the bmw, house and motorbike. I don't have a stable job. Instead, I've helped people in Africa get free surgery. I've done sound for the President of Sierra Leone and done sound for the First Lady and Health minister of Senegal. I've sailed across the equator and the prime meridian. I've downloaded the black box recorder for a 16,000 ton ship. I've seen Lemurs in Madagascar, been to game reserves in South Africa, ziplined off a Baobab tree in Senegal and lost a trivia night to the American ambassador in Sierra Leone. Doors close, doors open.
Take it from a 72 year old grandmother, being happy is more important. Take care of yourself, have fun and love those close to you. That's what will be important to you when you're old.
My PhD was disrupted by mononucleosis and then Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. I feel ya. Many of us have been through this, had the weird and shattered period of time afterwards, and moved on to having very satisfying lives.
It's definitely a "nuanced" situation. I was post- graduate in archaeology, heading to PhD, when my immune system crapped out. Turns out I love being a high school history teacher! In 5 years when my last child goes off to university, I'm headed to Scotland (rather than Guatemala) to pick up my trowel again. I don't feel like I missed out, it wasn't meant for me. Life is a journey and there's so much to enjoy even if it's not what you had imagined.
I love the trend of people embracing their health over societal milestones. I wish I had listened to my body in my 20s and now I'm disabled.I didn't have any family or support system so I crashed hard.
I'm in my 60s and have the equivalent of a number of PhDs. but still get slammed every day by people who think they know more. :D It's overrated to stay in school when you're capable of your own study. However, some people belong there. I've been free-lance with my own business (two of them) for a very long time, so no pension here, either. I don't plan on quitting. It took me 45 years to get to a good place in my work. Life takes time, Jimmy. I also spent my 20s working two full time jobs, so school was difficult. My husband and I both suffered from the quota system here in the US despite top grades and hard work. So some of what life throws at you is not you, but what you're born to. I still work from 4am to 4pm every day, but my health is great and my work is coming along fabulous. Nothing means that you have to do everything before you're thirty. You're going to be amazing when you're my age!
I got my PhD in 2019 at 64 years old. I waited 30 years after my Masters because I had no interest in undergoing and enduring the abuse needed to achieve a long term position in a University. I just wanted to further investigate my field. Your Welsh Viking project has been your PhD. You maybe just didn't realize it. Good on you! There is always time to get the paper if you want it later in life. 🍷Cheers. (I've been wanting to tell you this for years now! )
I intended to be a Dr of Clinical Pyschology, instead I have Bachelors in Religious Studies and now raise my kids and sew/needlework :) life doesnt always travel the road you intended ❤
Fellow PhD quitter here, but in my case it was the program itself that was making me miserable. Only figured it out when I started crying for no reason one day. Felt better as soon as I decided to quit, so it was pretty immediately obvious that it was the right decision. First year or two afterwards also sucked while I was processing the feelings of failure and figuring out what to do with my life, but I'm very happy now. And I am never going back for a PhD, and that's ok.
As a PhD, the most useful (and sadly, true) advice I got before starting was "if you are not 1000% excited, ready and sure you want to go for a PhD, do not start. Because even WITH those things you will hate your research subject, the PhD process and your life by the end of it, and if you start at anything less than 1000% excited and ready, you will not make it". The process is fucking grueling. I didn't really have any hobbies or social life for the 6 years mine took, it was that much time I sank into it, and I was also lucky enough to be funded so I didn't have to work a second job on top. Definitely not something most people can/should put themselves through and no shame in realizing that!
From a stranger here in New Brunswick, Canada, who is a subscriber and fan: so far as I am concerned you didn't have to make this video, but since you did, there's an important element of life: one's sanity, and another which is: there are dozens, hundreds, thousands of routes to take through life, and sometimes adjustment is the only sane thing to do. It sounds like you've done the sane thing and good for you. Keeping ones head while others all round lose theirs is a valuable thing! Good luck, and I look forward, as always, to what's coming.
My ex walked out of his PhD and a tenure track job cause he just couldn’t stand it all of a sudden. Five years later he wound up in Law school and spent the rest of his life excited about stuff when he woke up every morning. Ironically, eventually wound up a ConLaw Professor. Moral of the story - it’s fine. You’ll be fine.
To anyone reading this who is considering what to do with their PhD: no matter what you decide, the end of a PhD, no matter in what shape or form, is not the end of your story. You are competent, or you would not have gotten in. Whatever happens, you are capable of great things and deserving of love. Your school days, even if they go on for longer than most, are not your entire life, they are a very finite stage of your life. You are not deciding if you are smart or good enough to do this--you would not be here if you were not. You are deciding whether you have the resources to finish it, or if digging deeper than you already are will cause damage beyond what you are willing to recover from after.
Brian May took a 33 year hiatus in his PhD studies, before coming back and finishing it in 2007; so there is no rush. All the best, Jimmy; you are a top content provider.
It’s a testament to your intelligence that you can recognize when something needs to end. There’s a point when stopping isn’t “ quitting” it’s making the correct move.
Hey, Friend, been there. Finished mine-but it meant burning all the bridges like the shield maiden I am. And that makes employment/publish perish have one outcome. I’m doing other things. I’m happier. I sleep most nights. What a revelation. You are amazing, and you need to keep doing you-hope your future finds you (and any others seeing this) happy, well-rested, and living the life of abundance you desire. Be well.
Honestly the absolute _struggle_ that is academia is kind of weird when you think about it; how completely normal it is for students to be burnt out and depressed as a default occupational hazard. Like, I was a miserable sod before, but now I'm a much more stressed miserable sod with several grand in debt and still no idea what to do with my life.
Hi Jimmy! Im going into the third year of my PhD in Political Science (Im in Canada). Our PhDs are designed to be done in four years, but most take at least 6.5 years. So Im feeling the length of my program right now lol Thank you so much for articulating this. I've been having similar thoughts, particularly in light of ongoing, chronic physical and mental health problems that have sprung up. And sometimes it feels like I'm degrading my very self for the research. This video was very validating; it is really comforting hearing these things because I sometimes feel like a failure for thinking "is this worth it?" To anyone doubting their worth or worried about "quitting": Dont torture yourself. the letters after your name (or lack thereof) DO NOT define your worth or your intelligence. Your physical and mental well-being are more important than any degree or research. Take care of you and be excellent to each other.
At the end of my bachelor's studies, I thought it might be a good idea to take the PhD route. Then during master's studies I burnt out and old issues broke through. After an eternity trying to heal and study on I managed to get a degree in medieval and post-medieval archaeology. One week later I got a job as head of a municipal museum. Should I ever happen to explicitly need a doctor's degree, I might reconsider but right now I'm as happy as it gets. Sooo many roads lead to Rome ❤
You’ve made the best decision for your own health and wellbeing, and that is the most important thing. There’s often a lot of imagined or real pressure to complete post grad qualifications ASAP after graduation - or even to go on to Uni/College immediately after Secondary School. Education isn’t time-gated, and students often do better from waiting until they’re in a more settled period of life.
I completed my PhD, but I always remember one of my supervisors said that you can always come back to a PhD but not to life. That is what is impossible. ❤
As someone who has completed a PhD, and has seen many good moments and also a lot of dark times with lasting mental health consequences, I would like to say just one thing: remember that academic career is just one of many possible professional paths and stepping away from it if you realize that it's not making you happy is absolutely valid. I know, getting into a PhD program can be very hard, and once you are in it's not simple to master the courage to leave. On top of that, we give a lot of symbolic value to academic titles, for many historical reasons (some of them are good reasons), and we end up giving to the whole thing a sort of almost "sacred" status: but, at the end of the day, this is a job, a profession. It's not your destiny, you are not taking religious orders. It's only a PhD. You are allowed to try and see if it makes you happy, and, if it doesn't, try something else. And if you find yourself regretting the decision to leave, you can always go back and start again: maybe you'll find a different topic, a different group of colleagues, a different place, and suddenly the happy and fullfilling parts will overpower the stressful ones. Let's normalize treating academic career like any other career.
I was staring at a future of endless postdocs all over the world, competiting with 100+ other people for every tenure-track position (which I wouldn't get until I was 40+ anyway), and being stuck in an endless grant-writing & paper-publishing cycle forever with no control over where in the world I would eventually find a full-time, tenure-track position. Nope. I've been a high school teacher or college adjuct professor for over 20 years. It's annoying as heck not to get benefits or guaranteed employment every semester, but I am a lot happier than if I had continued.
Things don't always turn out the way we thought they would, and that's ok. If PhD is the right thing for you, you'll eventually find your way back to it. I wish you health and harmony :)
Jimmyyyyyy! I’m heckin proud of you my friend. My grandma said that one is always a student if they lovingly pursue something to learn. You’re always learning stuff, AND are teaching us, so a double win. 💕
I really appreciate your vulnerability and honesty making this video. I too almost had a PhD and your comments about the toll a PhD program can have on someone’s health resonated with me. PhDs are often irresponsibly and unnecessarily taxing on graduate students. Take care of yourself.
I get it 1000%. My sister quit hers in Classics about 10 yrs ago. She was the only student in the program who had a child. Only 1 other was married. It takes a tremendous amount of space in your life. She's left languages & teaching altogether for the construction industry. She is so much more sastified & moving up the ladder on her terms. Sounds weird, but the time management & conflict mitigation skills learned are invaluable to her. She just gave a presentation to a group of 4000 ppl. She said it was no worse than defending her master's.😮 I went to culinary school, left, and came back because my lack of degree bothered me. I had such a different focus 11 yrs later. It allowed me to graduate with honors. By this time I was married and getting a masters or PhD would have required me moving out of state. It just wasn't something I wanted. Your educational letters are for you. Finish them when YOU want to. Until then enjoy the RUclips community & York.
Jimmy - congratulations on making a hard choice and trusting yourself. As someone who has gotten a Ph.D., and whose spouse probably should have walked away but didn't, it absolutely is a nuanced decision and people deserve all the freedom to reevaluate that decision as needed. If anyone is reading these comments and looking for encouragement, please know that completing the process is not for everyone, and not only is there no shame in walking away, it's quite the opposite. Walking away demonstrates GREAT strength. Conversely, if you choose to stay, that also takes great strength, and I'm rooting for you - it's not easy, and you've got this.
I think you made the right decision based on your life now. My plan was to go back to school and get my Ph.D. in Geology once my son turned 5. Then, he was diagnosed with autism (and a host of other minor issues), and I made the decision to not go back. I 100% do not regret this choice, and it was absolutely the best one. On one hand, I think there will always be a part of me that wonders what would have happened if I had pushed through. Not getting my doctorate has held me back professionally (you can only go so far with a Master's). Plus, I'm one of those nerds who'd spend their entire life getting one degree after another just because it's fun. HOWEVER - and this is really important - you don't have to go to school to learn. You can do research and become an expert without a college degree. Yes, it's much easier to access all of those lovely nuggets of information via the college system. But it's not necessary. All that work you've done can be channeled into other directions. You can write a book, for example. Or, create a series of educational videos. You do you.
As someone who finished a PhD but for whom it severely exacerbated existing health issues, both physical and mental, it sounds you made the right decision for yourself!
I got two thirds of the way through a PhD. My supervisor left, the new supervisor said "it's all wrong anyway" and an opportunity came up which was a choice between it and the PhD. So I withdrew (I had a scholarship so that wasn't an easy decision). The opportunity was the right choice. I intended to eventually go back, and the scholarship would have reactivated within a certain time frame. But then I had kids, so it got put off. Years later I realised part of the problem had been that my subject had been dictated by the supervisors available and realised what the subject should have been instead and miracle! found a potential supervisor thanks to the advancement in technology (not in the same country but now it doesn't matter as much) and then my youngest child nearly died and it was more than six months till he recovered to full health. So it got put off again. That was six years ago. It's still put off. I occasionally think I should get back to it, but honestly, my life has continued without it all these years, I didn't want to go into academia anyway (except maybe as one of those dreadful academics who doesn't want to interact with students) so really, it doesn't feel like much of a loss. My only advice to anyone else wondering about their PhD is to do what you think is right for you and find out what all your options really are. Talk to more than just your supervisor, think it through, but when push comes to shove your life is not going to end if you don't finish - it will just take a different path.
Totally get it Jimmy! My H did a PhD ( organic chemistry) 20+ years ago & it is bloody hard work! There is currently a big debate going on here in Australia - in Melbourne at least by the media here- about the pros and cons of going to Uni at all. Particularly for the young adults who have gone through senior school/ starting Uni during COVID ( which includes my kiddults too). The discussion is very much around mental health, & cost of living & associated stressors. The arguments for first looking after one’s mental, emotional & physical health are very sound! Wishing you all the very best, I love your channel - your research skills, passion and dedication to your content are amazing and much appreciated by all of us watching & learning from all you do - including your open and honest approach to everything in life.
I wish everyone peace and contentment in whatever endeavour they persue. We all should allow ourselves the grace to change course, don't believe in the sunk cost fallacy.
I did complete my PhD, without any funding and, hence, having a job on the side. It was a ton of work (not only writing the paper, but also publishing in academic journals and attending and delivering presentations at conferences, as this was one of the requirements), and the burnout put me off academic writing for a long time. I don't regret doing it because I learned a lot, and because the quality of my work and the accomplishment of completing it with highest honours gave me a lot of satisfaction. BUT I have not had any material gains from it, it hasn't helped me get a job. It was just a very demanding hobby. My advice: do a PhD only if you have a comfortable enough life to afford (financially, time- and energy-wise) a very demanding hobby. It might help you in your career, but don't rely on that. All the best, Jimmy, and congratulations for figuring our what works best for you and going with it! You're an expert in your field with or without the title!
While you owe no one an explanation, it is very courageous to make a video about your personal experience. You've always presented yourself as authentic and I hope that this video brought you more relief and closure about a hard decision you made for yourself. No matter what fancy papers may say, you're always going to be my favorite Welsh Historian.
It's a toughie. I started my PhD in neighbouring Glasgow in early 2020. It has certainly been an amazing, rewarding experience but now that I'm less than a month away from submitting, it does come with the huge caveat of some of the most difficult years of my life. To anyone out there considering, beginning or battling a PhD: it will work out, but don't ever prioritise some fancy letters over your own wellbeing. Additionally, there is a big culture of constantly working and doing a lot of thankless, unrelated tasks so don't be afraid to advocate for yourself if supervisors start asking more and more of you. It's YOUR project, you gotta focus on furthering that rather than doing oddjobs for an exploitative supervisor 😄
I applaud your personal decision! You've got unique opportunities open to you with your reenactment, expertise, videos, and your significant following. Not just anyone can accomplish that, whether or not they've got extra letters behind their name.
I quit my PhD (also four years in to a three year course!) about 15 years ago. I was worried I'd regret it and feel like a failure, especially since I'd pretty much done all the research and was just writing up. Thankfully, that hasn't been the case. It turned out to be one of the best decisions I've ever made and I've never looked back. I hope time proves the same for you
You have to do what is best for you, in all things. Old saying " Don't cling to a mistake just because you've spent a lot of time making it" Also, "Nothing learned is ever wasted". We're all just out here figuring our way around, it isn't always easy, it may not make sense to others; Life. Take care Jimmy. Enjoy
I finished my Ph.D., but it took 7 years. Math is impossible to have on a strict timeline because it's based on solving enough high difficulty math problems to fill a dissertation. I didn't realize I had ADHD at the time, which made focusing on said problems very difficult. I'm glad I did what I did, but it came with opportunity costs. And then I burnt out of teaching, which is what I got the Ph.D. for. No one else wants to pay me for having it, and teaching really didn't pay for it either.
Late-diagnosed ADHD club here! Definitely explains why I was ok doing structured coursework, but self-directing research & an experiment for my psych honours thesis made my brain melt. That whole year was just a series of TRULY epic disasters though, & in retrospect I'm amazed I even finished. So you're a freaking legend to get a PhD with undiagnosed ADHD! I'm sorry it didn't turn out how you wanted career-wise, but it's an amazing achievement, & I hope you're now doing something that makes you happy & pays enough.
Look, imho, anyone who managed to just get through (by whatever metric they use) this horrible pandemic and general craptastic several years needs an standing ovation 👏🏻 Shit’s been real hard! My working life has now had 2 financial recessions and a pandemic and I have felt like I’ve fallen short, but when the whole playing field changes under your feet, but you still trudged through, you win. We are here. We are together. ❤
Go, you! Your physical and mental health should always be a priority. Honestly, I'm learning more from Non-Ph.D. Jimmy than from Ph.D. Jimmy, because Non-Ph.D. Jimmy has more time and more creative juices!
Thanks for sharing this! It’s always good to shed light on these kinds of decisions because it’s so easy to self-isolate during the dissertation process (at least, that was the case when I did a PhD in the US almost 25 years ago now). Also, the idea that academia is a cult has become a cliche, but I do think that academia (which is to say, the people in it, operating collectively, as wonderful as they often are on an individual basis) encourages a mindset that if you choose to leave academia, it’s because you can’t hack it, you’ve failed, and everything else will be this sort of second best, once you’ve fallen from Eden. And none of that is REMOTELY true. (I made it through my PhD, badly and slowly, and worked as a professor for a while, and now I’m not in academia, and I might well have been better off if I’d stopped sooner. Like you, I know people who finished and stayed, finished and left, didn’t finish, all varieties of happy and unhappy, and often it does indeed a huge toll on mental health, physical health, and finances. And I don’t know what higher ed is like in the UK, but in the US, it’s a strange and struggling industry. When it works, it can be great, but it can be very hard to make it work.)
I walked away from a masters program… wow, almost 30 years ago now. Loved my department, loved my professors, but I was not in the right headspace at the time to complete anything. If they’d let me just keep taking classes, I’d still be there! There’s a small part of me that will always be a little disappointed that I didn’t finish, but professionally it has never mattered and personally it has allowed me to keep doing the fun bits without the stress and angst. So, a little wistfulness, maybe, but no regrets.
Well done for putting your well-being first. It sounds like you have made the best decision. You don't need a Phd for life to be full of interesting opportunities! I hope many of them come your way
I'm married to a amazing guy with an astrophysics PhD. His advice to anyone considering pursuing a PhD is don't, unless you are a certain kind of insane, a certain kind of dedicated, and your PhD is your absolute deepest passion, and it's the only way to continue that passion. He talked me down off the ledge of going to law school, at a time when I really had no business going back to school after finishing my bachelor. Thank you for choosing to preserve your sanity, and I look forward to your content going forward. Much admiration, a North American seidrkönna.
@@Heyu7her3 My husband has had plenty of work since he graduated with his PhD in 2004. Then again, he's an odd duck; he helps to builds the hardware and sensors that tests the theories. This is a very different than teaching or working on the theoretical side of things. He loves it, his big brain is suited for the work, and he is happy. That's all I care about.
Hey, a buddy of mine ended up stepping away from his PhD program for over 10 years- he went back maybe 18 months ago and graduated earlier in the month. So, like you said, it's there if things change.
Tough decision friend. I entered a part-time PhD program which allowed me 8 years to complete (something of a rarity). I took all 8 while working full time. But with a fantastic chair I managed to complete. I entered university work for one year, only to realize my original job working as a high school teacher paid better and was more rewarding. So I'm back to teaching high school. You've got a sharp mind - consider teaching history for the younger guys. They need good mentoring. Best of luck - and thank you for the wonderful RUclips work.
My dad's a professor and so is sometimes on the examination committee for PhD defences. He said that the most interesting PhD he listened to was a history one about ancient ships (not my dad's area of research - at all). So for those who are in PhD programs, just remember that amongst all the questions and scrutiny, there might be a professor who's just geeking out because he thinks your research is really cool!
As a student who is just starting to dip their toes into research and it’s wonderful to hear others being so open and be willing to acknowledge the nuance of the situation. So thank you
To say an advance degree is difficult is such an understatement! The system is designed to prevent people from obtaining them. Having your original research and blood sweat and tears disparaged and questioned at every term is just cruel. What is true is that YOU are a man of integrity, kindness, intelligence, curiosity, and creativity. I look forward to seeing your future creative success. Best wishes.
Fwiw I'm really proud of you for saying, "this isn't working for me anymore, something needs to give and it's going to be the PhD." Best of luck on all your current and future endeavors!
Ironically, I am going the other way. After years of resisting people suggesting I go for a Phd (and raising 4 children), I decided to go for it. Interestingly, many people are now discouraging me - although people who know me are saying finally. For the record, the first draft of my statement of purpose was (in its entirety) "sounds like fun"... It has to be a personal decision. I applaud you for yours.
I finished my BA after a stupid long time, and decided to get my MS in an entirely different field a decade after that. I'm currently 45 and though it's not easy to fit in with life, I'm loving the return to academia. I'll be glad to get back to a "real" job once I finish my thesis, but I'm going to miss it. "It sounds like fun" is, IMO, an absolutely *necessary* component of the decision to go back. If it's not fun, it's really hard to justify the extra time and work. If you don't like the work, you're probably not going to like the job you'll have at the end of it, so why bother?
@@christineg8151 I've got a Masters and a GC already. So, I know it's not "fun" fun but a quick view into how my brain works: My daughter doing a school project asks about "witchcraft trials" (think midwives accused) while I ws reading a regency romance novel referring to reseurrectioinsts and the difference between surgeons and physicians. Next thing I know I am downloading a text on the Medical College in Salerno which had been training women as doctors since the 11th century--Another time, a politician held up a 19th century sign in a hearing (it's often used as an internet meme) and, I thought, misinterpretted the correct history of it-I then spent 6 hours in the reference library reading legislative documents from 1854-57 just to satisfy my own curiosity. (BTW: I was right)t. I am not looking for a job in the field. It is literally just for me. For fun.
When I dropped out of my PhD after 3 years I felt like an absolute failure. But now, 5 years later, I can see it was absolutely the *best* thing that could've happened to me. It led to so much self discovery. ❤
Just starting my PhD in August in biology. I think I've gotten a lot of nuanced viewpoints from people inside and outside academia. Being in Sweden means it's a full-time payed position which is of course a great privilege, it means it's probably gonna be my most financially stable 4+ years for a good long while haha. I've also really been working on my mental health this past year so it's at an all-time high and I have a really great supervisor and people around me. I am still nervous about it. I think it's really great to talk about and not associate shame around quitting if that's what's best for you. The topic of mental health has come up a lot in my department and I think the culture is slowly shifting, at least in my country, which is nice. Still, total burnout is considered normal and OK when it really shouldn't be...
As a PhD dropout myself, that struck a chord for me. The only advice I feel comfortable giving to anybody wondering if they should carry on is to really ask themselves why they want to complete theirs, how far they are from it, and what else would suffer as a consequence. As Jimmy said, super nuanced and personal. Good luck figuring it out 👍.
Yep, that's why I work in a trade job 😅 My honours year *destroyed* me. I still managed to work in academia for a further three years while trying and failing to recover. I miss the research part. I do *not* miss the stress.
Fave quote :"This is the Welsh Viking channel, everything is nuanced!" Would love this as merch!!! Also good for you! As someone who completed their PhD (with a LOT of new mental health issues), but my year mate didn't I'm always reminded of two things I heard during my studies. The first is than an average of 50% of PhDs don't complete for various reasons (so it's actually super common), the second is that the easiest part of a PhD is getting PhD funding in the first place, and that is already super hard. You will have learned so much anyway and as long as you're happy the rest is irrelevant. Well done Jimmy!
I quit my PhD about 30 years ago. I was running out of funding and couldn't keep it up working and doing the PhD research at the same time. It was disheartening for a few years. I worked as a freelance ever since and I lost one job opportunity to someone with a PhD. That's it. Life goes on and tbh it just went down another road. And I am glad I quit it back then. I was not when I had to do it but in retrospect I didn't loose much or anything at all. It is as Jimmy said, all the things you've learned are still there. They are not bound to the degree.
I'll say as somebody who's currently in the process of mastering out of a PhD, and i want to thank you for talking about it! It's a big difficult emotional choice and you and other folks who talk about it make that choice a lot less lonely. I will say that masters-ing out wasn't fully my choice but after the big emotional fallout of it for me i think it was the right choice for me. I might go back do a PhD in the future maybe, but the situation i was in with my advisor and health issues was not tenable. Anyways yeah. Thank you for talking about it and congrats on making such a big decision and congrats on your master's!
I finished my PhD in the last year. One of the reason why PhD is so difficult is that it is funded for a certain time and universities and institutes demand a lot from PhD students in a short time. For example, my PhD was funded for three years and I was supposed to have three articles and 30 credits course for graduation. It is extremely diffucult to have three articles in three years in my field since some of the experiments take 5-6 months to obtain results. I had to work crazy and run multiple projects at the same time to finish my PhD on time. I did not get one single day vacation almost for three years and I worked 80-90 hours/week. I managed to survive and finish my PhD on time, but I sacrificed my three years for this. If you decide to do PhD, be prepared to sacrifice your life for 3-4 years, in some cases even 5-8 years I have seen people take to finish their PhD. Good luck for the ones who decide to do PhD!
I chose not to pursue my Masters because A)tiny job market B)I was sick and tired of being sick and tired...and broke. I got some vocational and 30 yrs later....surprise! I had a career instead of a degree. Life is what happens while we are making other plans. I know that sounds trite, but I've learned its more true than you can even imagine.
A PhD isn’t worth your health. Life changes, priorities shift, & everything you’ve learned along the way(both academically & emotionally) won’t be wasted. It’s great you’ve talked about the process, it will inform others. Perhaps life will change again in the future & you will resume the task, who knows? Onya Jimmy as we say in Australia
Jimmy, once a history nerd, always a history nerd. You have a lot of skills that can translate into many beneficial things. For some people, PhD can stand for Piled higher and Deeper. As long as you are doing what makes YOU happy and healthy, well done and brilliant.
Doctorates were originally invented so that promising academics had a certificate to show that they had reached a level of achievement but were still without secure employment. This was apt in 1800's Germany but somehow got carried through to the 21st century. You make very valid comments here!
I got to the stage where I had three chapters written and submitted....and then I stopped. Wish that I'd had a decent admin team and chair, but that's not what happened. It's still really hard for me to talk about, so I get this. Good for you in making the right decision for yourself!
I also quit mine... I felt my research wasn't good enough, even though I worked so incredibly hard. My thesis was almost done. My scholarship was done and I had to find a couple of jobs while I worked some final things in the lab and on the thesis. I finally broke and gave up. Have been told I was suffering from imposter syndrome and my work was good enough, but that was 15 years ago and my life has very much moved on. I'm starting a new career that I love very much and it's not in scientific research. There's always something out there, even if for a while we feel the world crumbled a bit.
I also quit my PhD. I realized it wasn’t what I wanted. I’m thankful for the two years I spent learning and growing but I am much happier not having pursued that career. I think it’s really brave to say something isn’t for you. When I stepped away, my friends, mentors and community didn’t understand but I knew it was the right decision for me. I lost that community but gained a whole world of possibilities. I am living the life I want now and am so so happy. tl;dr listen to yourself. If your heart isn’t in it and you dread doing the work, spend some time reflecting on what you want from life. Stepping away from a program doesn’t mean you failed. It just means you learned that something wasn’t for you. Good luck to all the PhD hopefuls and those perusing an alternative career out there.
As a first generation, working class kid, getting a PhD was equal parts traumatizing and illuminating. I now have advised quite a few PhDs, and I try as much as possible to be supportive, kind, and engaged with whatever decision they make, whether it be finishing the PhD, leaving the program,, or leaving academia altogether. I've been very proud of former students who left academia because they had a realization of what might be a more fulfilling life for them, and I try very hard to let them know how I feel. I realized it was important for former students to hear that from their adviser (even in cases when I was the younger one). Even if you never come back and finish the PhD, I hope that you will find the experience valuable and worth remembering. I think that's the best one can hope for, beyond expectations of professional achievement. I do think that time well worth spent is, in hindsight, way more valuable than any tangible rewards. Anyone who says they aced their academic programs with a minimum of mental damage is either lying to you, or these are people that are best to generally avoid.
I failed mine outright. It took a huge toll on my physical and mental health, but I kept pressing on when I should have quit. The good news is that there is a life after PhD. I eventually went self-employed, and it's going really well. If you just keep reading and reading, eventually you hit upon a great idea.
I'm grateful to have completed my doctorate, despite the challenges and intensity. Pursuing a PhD can have mixed impacts on career prospects, depending on your goals and industry. Deciding to start or continue a PhD is a deeply personal choice that hinges on what kind of work brings you fulfillment and many other considerations. Interview professionals in your field and weigh your options carefully to prioritize what aligns best with your goals and values.
I am glad that Jimmy's video has helped you reconsider your journey in a different way. Looking after your mental health is so often pushed aside, disregarded, ignored or simply not taken seriously. Choosing to prioritise you mental health is not always the easy choice, but I hope you might soon be able to look back on those years and say "It took me a while to realise it, I am worth more than some letters and a piece of paper", Don't get me wrong, I know that there are many factors and reasons why people may want or even need a PhD, but in the end you and your health matter, and you should never consider putting yourself first as a failure. Well done you! It may not have been an easy decision to make, but it sounds like it was the right one for you!
If anyone is reading this comment: You do YOU for YOU and because YOU are making the decision. Yes quitting or thinking of quitting something is very difficult, but if you aren't happy what is really the point of doing it?
honestly congrats on making the right decision for you - i'm currently a phd student, but had to take a year out for mental health reasons after spending a year with a supervisor who didn't understand my needs or way of working as an autistic person - i've had to seriously consider dropping out as well. i'm glad you were able to make the difficult decision and good luck with everything going forward
I had a similar experience when I went through teacher training to complement my BA. Partway through the student teaching, I was blindsided with the news that I wasn't cutting it. Fortunately, it wasn't too late to withdraw. I went on to complete my degree without the teaching certificate and that was probably the best move I could have made. I'm not sure I was actually cut out for it. The teacher training came in handy later, when I was developing training classes at various jobs, though. So, using my experience as an example, I'm sure you will find your way forward. If that way means continuing the PhD at a later time, great! If not, also great, provided that's what you want to do. We'll be here for you either way.
Jimmy, I've been where you are now. Three years into a PhD program, and having to leave it. It will be emotionally difficult for a bit, especially as you're effectively grieving the loss of a dream / vision of yourself and your future. But, academia is an incredibly cut-throat field, and few who haven't gone through it will understand how nasty it can be. It's better to step away for mental and physical health, than push yourself into a physical or mental breakdown. My advice from 15 years further down the road: give yourself space to grieve, and then determine what you want to do next. You've still got your mad research skills, and that will be useful in whatever place you find yourself.
I completed a Juris Doctor. 20 years later I'm glad I did, but it was a very difficult time that took an enormous toll on my health, which lasted over a decade. We all need to do what's right for each of us.
I will fill the comment section with an idea for the future: Have you thought about merch? I would absolutely love a Welsh Viking T-Shirt with "Nuance" on it.
Tbh someone made a really cool logo of precisely that, but merch feels a bit odd to me sometimes, so I feel like I’d love to get an artist who’s a subscriber to create something then do a charity t-shirt or something? But yeah, nuance has to be a part of it, right? 😂
I have two family members who quit their PhDs years ago. They're both doing well in life. Whether you go back to it or not, sometimes quitting is the best choice. Your health and wellbeing are important.
It's ok, take care of yourself, that's the most important thing, don't waste your time chasing goals that won't get you anywhere. But I have a request: you have done a lot of research, don't throw this work away. Tell us about your results, your search. Knowledge must be shared. If not an academic library, then here. We also appreciate the unfinished comments and unanswered questions.
It's a terrific subject to talk about because I feel like our goals can sometimes morph into traps and it can be very difficult to attain a sense of perspective. It's easy to feel locked into a situation that is taking a mental, physical, and spiritual toll. And we're usually our own warders. When it becomes a very real quality of life issue, being able to step back and say, "Wait, what's the real cost benefit situation here" is essential but can be a really hard thing to see. There are always other viable paths to fulfillment and happiness.
After two years of studying archaeology, I made the decision to take a break and take care of my mental health. I have had a lot of doubt, thinking I had not struggle enough and gave up to easily. Today I know I made the right decision then by drawing a line in the sand and putting my health first. The experience I've had those two years aren't lost and still serves me now that I started history studies from scratch. It's never wrong to put our well-being before our academic achievements ❤
Take it from this old gal - you have to live your life. The pandemic taught us all so much. Will you regret it on your deathbed?? Who knows??! You have decades to go back if you want, or to travel another road or 5 or twelve. None of it's wasted, a waste would be keeping on with something that makes you miserable!! One of the most wonderful things about young people today is that they are putting life before work, and I just wish that there was more support for people who want to do something different. I think it has changed an awful lot over the last 50 years, And I think social media is one huge opportunity that people who are good at it like you are can benefit from. The hardest thing is finding a new way to talk about yourself about who you are. You get used to being oh I'm a student or oh I'm a editor or I'm a mother or.... Now I'm a retired and I don't know who the f*** I am right now. But having watched this with you makes me feel that I'm going to get on top of that soon. Thank you for the encouragement even in my dotage.
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Nobody needs a PhD to raid a coastal village.
"Oh, yea, I have a PhD in Raiding, I started in open studies that became a major in Shield Walling and then took a minor in Longship navigation, so becoming a Raider was a natural progression. There's not much money in any other field with these qualifications, really, unless you want to get into risky land-battles or spend ALL of your time at sea."
I have a PHD in Raiding the Icebox, with a minor in Coolers.😂
But surely the forward-planning and organisation required for a PhD are transferable skills for raiding..?
Sure, but every Jarl that interviewed me wanted me to have a doctorate, and 3 years of raiding experience. For an entry level raiding position! Ridiculous.
I got my masters in tower defense, i really regret it. I thought I would be throwing plague corpses at the crusaders down below, but now all i do is watch out for highwaymen and twiddle my thumbs waiting to raise and lower the portcullis.
Ok, PhD supervisor here….I’ve helped 9 students finish and 4 students quit and in each case it really was the best thing. I’ve been worried about you for some time with all the content creation work and the stand-up and the PhD because it is hard enough to do any one of these, let alone all three, because all these things draw on your creativity and energy at the same time. Trying to do them all is roadmap to working yourself to death. So congratulations on crossing your Rubicon and thanks for being so awesome in this video-totally classy, not taking easy cheap shots at the people who stay in the academy, but ALSO not diminishing yourself or your own choices. I’m excited for all your next things.
You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run
I became a patron of The Welsh Viking bc I fell in love with the whimsey and humor of a young man who likes the same kind of things I like and wanted to foster that creativity. TBH, I kind of dreaded losing your crazy rabbit holes, cemetery ramble talks, and reenactment sewing projects to some dusty university that could very well suck the joy out of you. There is no shame in saying, "This no longer serves me, I'm not enjoying it and I want to do something else." As it stands, a Masters degree in archeology is a fine accomplishment, opportunity is happening along and you've built a robust RUclips channel. That's a whole business, right there!. You have my total respect for prioritizing your happiness and health. I'm 100% certain you will thrive, whatever you do. Much love to you from this history geek granny.
I failed to get my bachelors and came out with a diploma. I didn't get the programming job and the bmw, house and motorbike. I don't have a stable job.
Instead, I've helped people in Africa get free surgery. I've done sound for the President of Sierra Leone and done sound for the First Lady and Health minister of Senegal. I've sailed across the equator and the prime meridian. I've downloaded the black box recorder for a 16,000 ton ship. I've seen Lemurs in Madagascar, been to game reserves in South Africa, ziplined off a Baobab tree in Senegal and lost a trivia night to the American ambassador in Sierra Leone.
Doors close, doors open.
Half expected this to morph into "I've watched moonbeams of the shores of Orion".
@@dogmaticpyrrhonist543 nah, I'm taking a break from travel at the moment.
Take it from a 72 year old grandmother, being happy is more important. Take care of yourself, have fun and love those close to you. That's what will be important to you when you're old.
My PhD was disrupted by mononucleosis and then Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. I feel ya. Many of us have been through this, had the weird and shattered period of time afterwards, and moved on to having very satisfying lives.
It's definitely a "nuanced" situation. I was post- graduate in archaeology, heading to PhD, when my immune system crapped out. Turns out I love being a high school history teacher! In 5 years when my last child goes off to university, I'm headed to Scotland (rather than Guatemala) to pick up my trowel again. I don't feel like I missed out, it wasn't meant for me. Life is a journey and there's so much to enjoy even if it's not what you had imagined.
Good luck with your plans!
You don't need a PhD to still be our very favourite Welsh viking❤ I'm glad you prioritized your health. Congratulations!
I love the trend of people embracing their health over societal milestones. I wish I had listened to my body in my 20s and now I'm disabled.I didn't have any family or support system so I crashed hard.
I'm in my 60s and have the equivalent of a number of PhDs. but still get slammed every day by people who think they know more. :D It's overrated to stay in school when you're capable of your own study. However, some people belong there. I've been free-lance with my own business (two of them) for a very long time, so no pension here, either. I don't plan on quitting. It took me 45 years to get to a good place in my work. Life takes time, Jimmy. I also spent my 20s working two full time jobs, so school was difficult. My husband and I both suffered from the quota system here in the US despite top grades and hard work. So some of what life throws at you is not you, but what you're born to. I still work from 4am to 4pm every day, but my health is great and my work is coming along fabulous. Nothing means that you have to do everything before you're thirty. You're going to be amazing when you're my age!
I got my PhD in 2019 at 64 years old. I waited 30 years after my Masters because I had no interest in undergoing and enduring the abuse needed to achieve a long term position in a University. I just wanted to further investigate my field. Your Welsh Viking project has been your PhD. You maybe just didn't realize it. Good on you! There is always time to get the paper if you want it later in life. 🍷Cheers. (I've been wanting to tell you this for years now! )
I intended to be a Dr of Clinical Pyschology, instead I have Bachelors in Religious Studies and now raise my kids and sew/needlework :) life doesnt always travel the road you intended ❤
Fellow PhD quitter here, but in my case it was the program itself that was making me miserable. Only figured it out when I started crying for no reason one day. Felt better as soon as I decided to quit, so it was pretty immediately obvious that it was the right decision.
First year or two afterwards also sucked while I was processing the feelings of failure and figuring out what to do with my life, but I'm very happy now. And I am never going back for a PhD, and that's ok.
As a PhD, the most useful (and sadly, true) advice I got before starting was "if you are not 1000% excited, ready and sure you want to go for a PhD, do not start. Because even WITH those things you will hate your research subject, the PhD process and your life by the end of it, and if you start at anything less than 1000% excited and ready, you will not make it". The process is fucking grueling. I didn't really have any hobbies or social life for the 6 years mine took, it was that much time I sank into it, and I was also lucky enough to be funded so I didn't have to work a second job on top. Definitely not something most people can/should put themselves through and no shame in realizing that!
From a stranger here in New Brunswick, Canada, who is a subscriber and fan: so far as I am concerned you didn't have to make this video, but since you did, there's an important element of life: one's sanity, and another which is: there are dozens, hundreds, thousands of routes to take through life, and sometimes adjustment is the only sane thing to do. It sounds like you've done the sane thing and good for you. Keeping ones head while others all round lose theirs is a valuable thing! Good luck, and I look forward, as always, to what's coming.
My ex walked out of his PhD and a tenure track job cause he just couldn’t stand it all of a sudden. Five years later he wound up in Law school and spent the rest of his life excited about stuff when he woke up every morning. Ironically, eventually wound up a ConLaw Professor.
Moral of the story - it’s fine. You’ll be fine.
To anyone reading this who is considering what to do with their PhD: no matter what you decide, the end of a PhD, no matter in what shape or form, is not the end of your story. You are competent, or you would not have gotten in. Whatever happens, you are capable of great things and deserving of love. Your school days, even if they go on for longer than most, are not your entire life, they are a very finite stage of your life. You are not deciding if you are smart or good enough to do this--you would not be here if you were not. You are deciding whether you have the resources to finish it, or if digging deeper than you already are will cause damage beyond what you are willing to recover from after.
Every single person who has ever started a PhD knows more about something than I ever will. As such, they have my respect.
Brian May took a 33 year hiatus in his PhD studies, before coming back and finishing it in 2007; so there is no rush.
All the best, Jimmy; you are a top content provider.
It’s a testament to your intelligence that you can recognize when something needs to end. There’s a point when stopping isn’t “ quitting” it’s making the correct move.
Hey, Friend, been there. Finished mine-but it meant burning all the bridges like the shield maiden I am. And that makes employment/publish perish have one outcome. I’m doing other things. I’m happier. I sleep most nights. What a revelation. You are amazing, and you need to keep doing you-hope your future finds you (and any others seeing this) happy, well-rested, and living the life of abundance you desire. Be well.
Honestly the absolute _struggle_ that is academia is kind of weird when you think about it; how completely normal it is for students to be burnt out and depressed as a default occupational hazard. Like, I was a miserable sod before, but now I'm a much more stressed miserable sod with several grand in debt and still no idea what to do with my life.
Hi Jimmy!
Im going into the third year of my PhD in Political Science (Im in Canada). Our PhDs are designed to be done in four years, but most take at least 6.5 years. So Im feeling the length of my program right now lol
Thank you so much for articulating this. I've been having similar thoughts, particularly in light of ongoing, chronic physical and mental health problems that have sprung up. And sometimes it feels like I'm degrading my very self for the research.
This video was very validating; it is really comforting hearing these things because I sometimes feel like a failure for thinking "is this worth it?"
To anyone doubting their worth or worried about "quitting": Dont torture yourself. the letters after your name (or lack thereof) DO NOT define your worth or your intelligence. Your physical and mental well-being are more important than any degree or research. Take care of you and be excellent to each other.
"This is welsh viking channel, everything is super nuanced" is my fav quote
At the end of my bachelor's studies, I thought it might be a good idea to take the PhD route. Then during master's studies I burnt out and old issues broke through. After an eternity trying to heal and study on I managed to get a degree in medieval and post-medieval archaeology. One week later I got a job as head of a municipal museum. Should I ever happen to explicitly need a doctor's degree, I might reconsider but right now I'm as happy as it gets. Sooo many roads lead to Rome ❤
You’ve made the best decision for your own health and wellbeing, and that is the most important thing. There’s often a lot of imagined or real pressure to complete post grad qualifications ASAP after graduation - or even to go on to Uni/College immediately after Secondary School. Education isn’t time-gated, and students often do better from waiting until they’re in a more settled period of life.
I completed my PhD, but I always remember one of my supervisors said that you can always come back to a PhD but not to life. That is what is impossible. ❤
As someone who has completed a PhD, and has seen many good moments and also a lot of dark times with lasting mental health consequences, I would like to say just one thing: remember that academic career is just one of many possible professional paths and stepping away from it if you realize that it's not making you happy is absolutely valid.
I know, getting into a PhD program can be very hard, and once you are in it's not simple to master the courage to leave. On top of that, we give a lot of symbolic value to academic titles, for many historical reasons (some of them are good reasons), and we end up giving to the whole thing a sort of almost "sacred" status: but, at the end of the day, this is a job, a profession.
It's not your destiny, you are not taking religious orders. It's only a PhD.
You are allowed to try and see if it makes you happy, and, if it doesn't, try something else. And if you find yourself regretting the decision to leave, you can always go back and start again: maybe you'll find a different topic, a different group of colleagues, a different place, and suddenly the happy and fullfilling parts will overpower the stressful ones.
Let's normalize treating academic career like any other career.
I was staring at a future of endless postdocs all over the world, competiting with 100+ other people for every tenure-track position (which I wouldn't get until I was 40+ anyway), and being stuck in an endless grant-writing & paper-publishing cycle forever with no control over where in the world I would eventually find a full-time, tenure-track position. Nope. I've been a high school teacher or college adjuct professor for over 20 years. It's annoying as heck not to get benefits or guaranteed employment every semester, but I am a lot happier than if I had continued.
I exist because my father quit his PhD. Will always support people making the right choice for themselves!
As someone who went in for a PhD and mastered out, I get it. Lots of hugs and support!
Things don't always turn out the way we thought they would, and that's ok. If PhD is the right thing for you, you'll eventually find your way back to it. I wish you health and harmony :)
Jimmyyyyyy! I’m heckin proud of you my friend. My grandma said that one is always a student if they lovingly pursue something to learn. You’re always learning stuff, AND are teaching us, so a double win. 💕
I really appreciate your vulnerability and honesty making this video. I too almost had a PhD and your comments about the toll a PhD program can have on someone’s health resonated with me. PhDs are often irresponsibly and unnecessarily taxing on graduate students. Take care of yourself.
I get it 1000%. My sister quit hers in Classics about 10 yrs ago. She was the only student in the program who had a child. Only 1 other was married. It takes a tremendous amount of space in your life. She's left languages & teaching altogether for the construction industry. She is so much more sastified & moving up the ladder on her terms. Sounds weird, but the time management & conflict mitigation skills learned are invaluable to her. She just gave a presentation to a group of 4000 ppl. She said it was no worse than defending her master's.😮 I went to culinary school, left, and came back because my lack of degree bothered me. I had such a different focus 11 yrs later. It allowed me to graduate with honors. By this time I was married and getting a masters or PhD would have required me moving out of state. It just wasn't something I wanted. Your educational letters are for you. Finish them when YOU want to. Until then enjoy the RUclips community & York.
Jimmy - congratulations on making a hard choice and trusting yourself. As someone who has gotten a Ph.D., and whose spouse probably should have walked away but didn't, it absolutely is a nuanced decision and people deserve all the freedom to reevaluate that decision as needed.
If anyone is reading these comments and looking for encouragement, please know that completing the process is not for everyone, and not only is there no shame in walking away, it's quite the opposite. Walking away demonstrates GREAT strength. Conversely, if you choose to stay, that also takes great strength, and I'm rooting for you - it's not easy, and you've got this.
To anyone reading this : Trust your heart and instincts. You've got this.
I think you made the right decision based on your life now. My plan was to go back to school and get my Ph.D. in Geology once my son turned 5. Then, he was diagnosed with autism (and a host of other minor issues), and I made the decision to not go back. I 100% do not regret this choice, and it was absolutely the best one. On one hand, I think there will always be a part of me that wonders what would have happened if I had pushed through. Not getting my doctorate has held me back professionally (you can only go so far with a Master's). Plus, I'm one of those nerds who'd spend their entire life getting one degree after another just because it's fun. HOWEVER - and this is really important - you don't have to go to school to learn. You can do research and become an expert without a college degree. Yes, it's much easier to access all of those lovely nuggets of information via the college system. But it's not necessary.
All that work you've done can be channeled into other directions. You can write a book, for example. Or, create a series of educational videos. You do you.
As someone who finished a PhD but for whom it severely exacerbated existing health issues, both physical and mental, it sounds you made the right decision for yourself!
I got two thirds of the way through a PhD. My supervisor left, the new supervisor said "it's all wrong anyway" and an opportunity came up which was a choice between it and the PhD. So I withdrew (I had a scholarship so that wasn't an easy decision). The opportunity was the right choice. I intended to eventually go back, and the scholarship would have reactivated within a certain time frame. But then I had kids, so it got put off. Years later I realised part of the problem had been that my subject had been dictated by the supervisors available and realised what the subject should have been instead and miracle! found a potential supervisor thanks to the advancement in technology (not in the same country but now it doesn't matter as much) and then my youngest child nearly died and it was more than six months till he recovered to full health. So it got put off again. That was six years ago. It's still put off. I occasionally think I should get back to it, but honestly, my life has continued without it all these years, I didn't want to go into academia anyway (except maybe as one of those dreadful academics who doesn't want to interact with students) so really, it doesn't feel like much of a loss. My only advice to anyone else wondering about their PhD is to do what you think is right for you and find out what all your options really are. Talk to more than just your supervisor, think it through, but when push comes to shove your life is not going to end if you don't finish - it will just take a different path.
Totally get it Jimmy! My H did a PhD ( organic chemistry) 20+ years ago & it is bloody hard work! There is currently a big debate going on here in Australia - in Melbourne at least by the media here- about the pros and cons of going to Uni at all. Particularly for the young adults who have gone through senior school/ starting Uni during COVID ( which includes my kiddults too).
The discussion is very much around mental health, & cost of living & associated stressors. The arguments for first looking after one’s mental, emotional & physical health are very sound!
Wishing you all the very best, I love your channel - your research skills, passion and dedication to your content are amazing and much appreciated by all of us watching & learning from all you do - including your open and honest approach to everything in life.
I wish everyone peace and contentment in whatever endeavour they persue. We all should allow ourselves the grace to change course, don't believe in the sunk cost fallacy.
Grandma said "Circumstances alter cases as broken noses alter faces." It depends. It always depends. Good on you for doing what's best in the moment.
I did complete my PhD, without any funding and, hence, having a job on the side. It was a ton of work (not only writing the paper, but also publishing in academic journals and attending and delivering presentations at conferences, as this was one of the requirements), and the burnout put me off academic writing for a long time. I don't regret doing it because I learned a lot, and because the quality of my work and the accomplishment of completing it with highest honours gave me a lot of satisfaction. BUT I have not had any material gains from it, it hasn't helped me get a job. It was just a very demanding hobby.
My advice: do a PhD only if you have a comfortable enough life to afford (financially, time- and energy-wise) a very demanding hobby. It might help you in your career, but don't rely on that.
All the best, Jimmy, and congratulations for figuring our what works best for you and going with it! You're an expert in your field with or without the title!
While you owe no one an explanation, it is very courageous to make a video about your personal experience. You've always presented yourself as authentic and I hope that this video brought you more relief and closure about a hard decision you made for yourself. No matter what fancy papers may say, you're always going to be my favorite Welsh Historian.
It's a toughie. I started my PhD in neighbouring Glasgow in early 2020. It has certainly been an amazing, rewarding experience but now that I'm less than a month away from submitting, it does come with the huge caveat of some of the most difficult years of my life. To anyone out there considering, beginning or battling a PhD: it will work out, but don't ever prioritise some fancy letters over your own wellbeing. Additionally, there is a big culture of constantly working and doing a lot of thankless, unrelated tasks so don't be afraid to advocate for yourself if supervisors start asking more and more of you. It's YOUR project, you gotta focus on furthering that rather than doing oddjobs for an exploitative supervisor 😄
I applaud your personal decision! You've got unique opportunities open to you with your reenactment, expertise, videos, and your significant following. Not just anyone can accomplish that, whether or not they've got extra letters behind their name.
I quit my PhD (also four years in to a three year course!) about 15 years ago. I was worried I'd regret it and feel like a failure, especially since I'd pretty much done all the research and was just writing up. Thankfully, that hasn't been the case. It turned out to be one of the best decisions I've ever made and I've never looked back. I hope time proves the same for you
You have to do what is best for you, in all things. Old saying " Don't cling to a mistake just because you've spent a lot of time making it" Also, "Nothing learned is ever wasted". We're all just out here figuring our way around, it isn't always easy, it may not make sense to others; Life. Take care Jimmy. Enjoy
We are proud of you dear friend. You need to do what is best for you.
I finished my Ph.D., but it took 7 years. Math is impossible to have on a strict timeline because it's based on solving enough high difficulty math problems to fill a dissertation. I didn't realize I had ADHD at the time, which made focusing on said problems very difficult. I'm glad I did what I did, but it came with opportunity costs. And then I burnt out of teaching, which is what I got the Ph.D. for. No one else wants to pay me for having it, and teaching really didn't pay for it either.
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Late-diagnosed ADHD club here! Definitely explains why I was ok doing structured coursework, but self-directing research & an experiment for my psych honours thesis made my brain melt. That whole year was just a series of TRULY epic disasters though, & in retrospect I'm amazed I even finished. So you're a freaking legend to get a PhD with undiagnosed ADHD! I'm sorry it didn't turn out how you wanted career-wise, but it's an amazing achievement, & I hope you're now doing something that makes you happy & pays enough.
Look, imho, anyone who managed to just get through (by whatever metric they use) this horrible pandemic and general craptastic several years needs an standing ovation 👏🏻 Shit’s been real hard! My working life has now had 2 financial recessions and a pandemic and I have felt like I’ve fallen short, but when the whole playing field changes under your feet, but you still trudged through, you win.
We are here. We are together. ❤
Go, you! Your physical and mental health should always be a priority. Honestly, I'm learning more from Non-Ph.D. Jimmy than from Ph.D. Jimmy, because Non-Ph.D. Jimmy has more time and more creative juices!
Thanks for sharing this! It’s always good to shed light on these kinds of decisions because it’s so easy to self-isolate during the dissertation process (at least, that was the case when I did a PhD in the US almost 25 years ago now). Also, the idea that academia is a cult has become a cliche, but I do think that academia (which is to say, the people in it, operating collectively, as wonderful as they often are on an individual basis) encourages a mindset that if you choose to leave academia, it’s because you can’t hack it, you’ve failed, and everything else will be this sort of second best, once you’ve fallen from Eden. And none of that is REMOTELY true.
(I made it through my PhD, badly and slowly, and worked as a professor for a while, and now I’m not in academia, and I might well have been better off if I’d stopped sooner. Like you, I know people who finished and stayed, finished and left, didn’t finish, all varieties of happy and unhappy, and often it does indeed a huge toll on mental health, physical health, and finances. And I don’t know what higher ed is like in the UK, but in the US, it’s a strange and struggling industry. When it works, it can be great, but it can be very hard to make it work.)
I walked away from a masters program… wow, almost 30 years ago now. Loved my department, loved my professors, but I was not in the right headspace at the time to complete anything. If they’d let me just keep taking classes, I’d still be there! There’s a small part of me that will always be a little disappointed that I didn’t finish, but professionally it has never mattered and personally it has allowed me to keep doing the fun bits without the stress and angst. So, a little wistfulness, maybe, but no regrets.
Well done for putting your well-being first. It sounds like you have made the best decision. You don't need a Phd for life to be full of interesting opportunities! I hope many of them come your way
I've always been here for the nuance.
Who doesn't appreciate a good nuance?
I'm married to a amazing guy with an astrophysics PhD. His advice to anyone considering pursuing a PhD is don't, unless you are a certain kind of insane, a certain kind of dedicated, and your PhD is your absolute deepest passion, and it's the only way to continue that passion. He talked me down off the ledge of going to law school, at a time when I really had no business going back to school after finishing my bachelor. Thank you for choosing to preserve your sanity, and I look forward to your content going forward. Much admiration, a North American seidrkönna.
Law school is vastly different, though. There's at least a profession on the other side of that academic journey.
@@Heyu7her3 My husband has had plenty of work since he graduated with his PhD in 2004. Then again, he's an odd duck; he helps to builds the hardware and sensors that tests the theories. This is a very different than teaching or working on the theoretical side of things. He loves it, his big brain is suited for the work, and he is happy. That's all I care about.
Hey, a buddy of mine ended up stepping away from his PhD program for over 10 years- he went back maybe 18 months ago and graduated earlier in the month. So, like you said, it's there if things change.
Oh, I feel hopeful
Tough decision friend. I entered a part-time PhD program which allowed me 8 years to complete (something of a rarity). I took all 8 while working full time. But with a fantastic chair I managed to complete. I entered university work for one year, only to realize my original job working as a high school teacher paid better and was more rewarding. So I'm back to teaching high school. You've got a sharp mind - consider teaching history for the younger guys. They need good mentoring. Best of luck - and thank you for the wonderful RUclips work.
My dad's a professor and so is sometimes on the examination committee for PhD defences. He said that the most interesting PhD he listened to was a history one about ancient ships (not my dad's area of research - at all). So for those who are in PhD programs, just remember that amongst all the questions and scrutiny, there might be a professor who's just geeking out because he thinks your research is really cool!
As a student who is just starting to dip their toes into research and it’s wonderful to hear others being so open and be willing to acknowledge the nuance of the situation.
So thank you
To say an advance degree is difficult is such an understatement! The system is designed to prevent people from obtaining them. Having your original research and blood sweat and tears disparaged and questioned at every term is just cruel.
What is true is that YOU are a man of integrity, kindness, intelligence, curiosity, and creativity. I look forward to seeing your future creative success. Best wishes.
Fwiw I'm really proud of you for saying, "this isn't working for me anymore, something needs to give and it's going to be the PhD."
Best of luck on all your current and future endeavors!
Ironically, I am going the other way. After years of resisting people suggesting I go for a Phd (and raising 4 children), I decided to go for it. Interestingly, many people are now discouraging me - although people who know me are saying finally. For the record, the first draft of my statement of purpose was (in its entirety) "sounds like fun"... It has to be a personal decision. I applaud you for yours.
I finished my BA after a stupid long time, and decided to get my MS in an entirely different field a decade after that. I'm currently 45 and though it's not easy to fit in with life, I'm loving the return to academia. I'll be glad to get back to a "real" job once I finish my thesis, but I'm going to miss it. "It sounds like fun" is, IMO, an absolutely *necessary* component of the decision to go back. If it's not fun, it's really hard to justify the extra time and work. If you don't like the work, you're probably not going to like the job you'll have at the end of it, so why bother?
@@christineg8151 I've got a Masters and a GC already. So, I know it's not "fun" fun but a quick view into how my brain works: My daughter doing a school project asks about "witchcraft trials" (think midwives accused) while I ws reading a regency romance novel referring to reseurrectioinsts and the difference between surgeons and physicians. Next thing I know I am downloading a text on the Medical College in Salerno which had been training women as doctors since the 11th century--Another time, a politician held up a 19th century sign in a hearing (it's often used as an internet meme) and, I thought, misinterpretted the correct history of it-I then spent 6 hours in the reference library reading legislative documents from 1854-57 just to satisfy my own curiosity. (BTW: I was right)t. I am not looking for a job in the field. It is literally just for me. For fun.
When I dropped out of my PhD after 3 years I felt like an absolute failure. But now, 5 years later, I can see it was absolutely the *best* thing that could've happened to me. It led to so much self discovery. ❤
Just starting my PhD in August in biology. I think I've gotten a lot of nuanced viewpoints from people inside and outside academia. Being in Sweden means it's a full-time payed position which is of course a great privilege, it means it's probably gonna be my most financially stable 4+ years for a good long while haha. I've also really been working on my mental health this past year so it's at an all-time high and I have a really great supervisor and people around me. I am still nervous about it. I think it's really great to talk about and not associate shame around quitting if that's what's best for you. The topic of mental health has come up a lot in my department and I think the culture is slowly shifting, at least in my country, which is nice. Still, total burnout is considered normal and OK when it really shouldn't be...
As a PhD dropout myself, that struck a chord for me.
The only advice I feel comfortable giving to anybody wondering if they should carry on is to really ask themselves why they want to complete theirs, how far they are from it, and what else would suffer as a consequence. As Jimmy said, super nuanced and personal. Good luck figuring it out 👍.
Yep, that's why I work in a trade job 😅 My honours year *destroyed* me. I still managed to work in academia for a further three years while trying and failing to recover. I miss the research part. I do *not* miss the stress.
Fave quote :"This is the Welsh Viking channel, everything is nuanced!" Would love this as merch!!! Also good for you! As someone who completed their PhD (with a LOT of new mental health issues), but my year mate didn't I'm always reminded of two things I heard during my studies. The first is than an average of 50% of PhDs don't complete for various reasons (so it's actually super common), the second is that the easiest part of a PhD is getting PhD funding in the first place, and that is already super hard. You will have learned so much anyway and as long as you're happy the rest is irrelevant. Well done Jimmy!
In a society that worships "perseverance" to the point of stupidity, it is very brave to admit when something isn't working for you and quit.
I quit my PhD about 30 years ago. I was running out of funding and couldn't keep it up working and doing the PhD research at the same time.
It was disheartening for a few years. I worked as a freelance ever since and I lost one job opportunity to someone with a PhD. That's it. Life goes on and tbh it just went down another road. And I am glad I quit it back then. I was not when I had to do it but in retrospect I didn't loose much or anything at all. It is as Jimmy said, all the things you've learned are still there. They are not bound to the degree.
I'll say as somebody who's currently in the process of mastering out of a PhD, and i want to thank you for talking about it! It's a big difficult emotional choice and you and other folks who talk about it make that choice a lot less lonely. I will say that masters-ing out wasn't fully my choice but after the big emotional fallout of it for me i think it was the right choice for me. I might go back do a PhD in the future maybe, but the situation i was in with my advisor and health issues was not tenable. Anyways yeah. Thank you for talking about it and congrats on making such a big decision and congrats on your master's!
It takes courage and insight to make that decision. Thanks for explaining it so clearly.
I finished my PhD in the last year. One of the reason why PhD is so difficult is that it is funded for a certain time and universities and institutes demand a lot from PhD students in a short time. For example, my PhD was funded for three years and I was supposed to have three articles and 30 credits course for graduation. It is extremely diffucult to have three articles in three years in my field since some of the experiments take 5-6 months to obtain results. I had to work crazy and run multiple projects at the same time to finish my PhD on time. I did not get one single day vacation almost for three years and I worked 80-90 hours/week. I managed to survive and finish my PhD on time, but I sacrificed my three years for this. If you decide to do PhD, be prepared to sacrifice your life for 3-4 years, in some cases even 5-8 years I have seen people take to finish their PhD. Good luck for the ones who decide to do PhD!
I chose not to pursue my Masters because A)tiny job market B)I was sick and tired of being sick and tired...and broke. I got some vocational and 30 yrs later....surprise! I had a career instead of a degree. Life is what happens while we are making other plans. I know that sounds trite, but I've learned its more true than you can even imagine.
A PhD isn’t worth your health. Life changes, priorities shift, & everything you’ve learned along the way(both academically & emotionally) won’t be wasted. It’s great you’ve talked about the process, it will inform others. Perhaps life will change again in the future & you will resume the task, who knows? Onya Jimmy as we say in Australia
Jimmy, once a history nerd, always a history nerd. You have a lot of skills that can translate into many beneficial things. For some people, PhD can stand for Piled higher and Deeper. As long as you are doing what makes YOU happy and healthy, well done and brilliant.
Doctorates were originally invented so that promising academics had a certificate to show that they had reached a level of achievement but were still without secure employment. This was apt in 1800's Germany but somehow got carried through to the 21st century. You make very valid comments here!
I got to the stage where I had three chapters written and submitted....and then I stopped. Wish that I'd had a decent admin team and chair, but that's not what happened. It's still really hard for me to talk about, so I get this. Good for you in making the right decision for yourself!
I also quit mine... I felt my research wasn't good enough, even though I worked so incredibly hard. My thesis was almost done. My scholarship was done and I had to find a couple of jobs while I worked some final things in the lab and on the thesis. I finally broke and gave up. Have been told I was suffering from imposter syndrome and my work was good enough, but that was 15 years ago and my life has very much moved on. I'm starting a new career that I love very much and it's not in scientific research. There's always something out there, even if for a while we feel the world crumbled a bit.
I also quit my PhD. I realized it wasn’t what I wanted. I’m thankful for the two years I spent learning and growing but I am much happier not having pursued that career. I think it’s really brave to say something isn’t for you. When I stepped away, my friends, mentors and community didn’t understand but I knew it was the right decision for me. I lost that community but gained a whole world of possibilities. I am living the life I want now and am so so happy.
tl;dr listen to yourself. If your heart isn’t in it and you dread doing the work, spend some time reflecting on what you want from life. Stepping away from a program doesn’t mean you failed. It just means you learned that something wasn’t for you. Good luck to all the PhD hopefuls and those perusing an alternative career out there.
As a first generation, working class kid, getting a PhD was equal parts traumatizing and illuminating. I now have advised quite a few PhDs, and I try as much as possible to be supportive, kind, and engaged with whatever decision they make, whether it be finishing the PhD, leaving the program,, or leaving academia altogether. I've been very proud of former students who left academia because they had a realization of what might be a more fulfilling life for them, and I try very hard to let them know how I feel. I realized it was important for former students to hear that from their adviser (even in cases when I was the younger one).
Even if you never come back and finish the PhD, I hope that you will find the experience valuable and worth remembering. I think that's the best one can hope for, beyond expectations of professional achievement. I do think that time well worth spent is, in hindsight, way more valuable than any tangible rewards.
Anyone who says they aced their academic programs with a minimum of mental damage is either lying to you, or these are people that are best to generally avoid.
❤❤❤ We all need to do what is best for ourselves and not worry about what others think/do/say ❤❤❤
I failed mine outright. It took a huge toll on my physical and mental health, but I kept pressing on when I should have quit.
The good news is that there is a life after PhD. I eventually went self-employed, and it's going really well. If you just keep reading and reading, eventually you hit upon a great idea.
I'm grateful to have completed my doctorate, despite the challenges and intensity. Pursuing a PhD can have mixed impacts on career prospects, depending on your goals and industry. Deciding to start or continue a PhD is a deeply personal choice that hinges on what kind of work brings you fulfillment and many other considerations. Interview professionals in your field and weigh your options carefully to prioritize what aligns best with your goals and values.
This video and the comments are such a morale boost
I wanna join the club. I quit my PhD and even though it was a good decision, a tiny part of me wish to start a new one and climb that mountain. 😊
I am glad that Jimmy's video has helped you reconsider your journey in a different way.
Looking after your mental health is so often pushed aside, disregarded, ignored or simply not taken seriously. Choosing to prioritise you mental health is not always the easy choice, but I hope you might soon be able to look back on those years and say "It took me a while to realise it, I am worth more than some letters and a piece of paper", Don't get me wrong, I know that there are many factors and reasons why people may want or even need a PhD, but in the end you and your health matter, and you should never consider putting yourself first as a failure.
Well done you! It may not have been an easy decision to make, but it sounds like it was the right one for you!
If anyone is reading this comment: You do YOU for YOU and because YOU are making the decision. Yes quitting or thinking of quitting something is very difficult, but if you aren't happy what is really the point of doing it?
honestly congrats on making the right decision for you - i'm currently a phd student, but had to take a year out for mental health reasons after spending a year with a supervisor who didn't understand my needs or way of working as an autistic person - i've had to seriously consider dropping out as well. i'm glad you were able to make the difficult decision and good luck with everything going forward
I hope you get better supervision soon, and that you find joy in your PhD!
I had a similar experience when I went through teacher training to complement my BA. Partway through the student teaching, I was blindsided with the news that I wasn't cutting it. Fortunately, it wasn't too late to withdraw. I went on to complete my degree without the teaching certificate and that was probably the best move I could have made. I'm not sure I was actually cut out for it. The teacher training came in handy later, when I was developing training classes at various jobs, though.
So, using my experience as an example, I'm sure you will find your way forward. If that way means continuing the PhD at a later time, great! If not, also great, provided that's what you want to do. We'll be here for you either way.
Jimmy, I've been where you are now. Three years into a PhD program, and having to leave it. It will be emotionally difficult for a bit, especially as you're effectively grieving the loss of a dream / vision of yourself and your future. But, academia is an incredibly cut-throat field, and few who haven't gone through it will understand how nasty it can be. It's better to step away for mental and physical health, than push yourself into a physical or mental breakdown. My advice from 15 years further down the road: give yourself space to grieve, and then determine what you want to do next. You've still got your mad research skills, and that will be useful in whatever place you find yourself.
I completed a Juris Doctor. 20 years later I'm glad I did, but it was a very difficult time that took an enormous toll on my health, which lasted over a decade. We all need to do what's right for each of us.
I will fill the comment section with an idea for the future: Have you thought about merch? I would absolutely love a Welsh Viking T-Shirt with "Nuance" on it.
Tbh someone made a really cool logo of precisely that, but merch feels a bit odd to me sometimes, so I feel like I’d love to get an artist who’s a subscriber to create something then do a charity t-shirt or something? But yeah, nuance has to be a part of it, right? 😂
A charity t-shirt sounds like a great idea! I would buy one:)
I am not an artist, but I think something like the viking in your logo with a speach bubble saying "nuance, baby" would be super fun.
I have two family members who quit their PhDs years ago. They're both doing well in life. Whether you go back to it or not, sometimes quitting is the best choice. Your health and wellbeing are important.
It's ok, take care of yourself, that's the most important thing, don't waste your time chasing goals that won't get you anywhere.
But I have a request: you have done a lot of research, don't throw this work away. Tell us about your results, your search. Knowledge must be shared. If not an academic library, then here. We also appreciate the unfinished comments and unanswered questions.
It's a terrific subject to talk about because I feel like our goals can sometimes morph into traps and it can be very difficult to attain a sense of perspective. It's easy to feel locked into a situation that is taking a mental, physical, and spiritual toll. And we're usually our own warders. When it becomes a very real quality of life issue, being able to step back and say, "Wait, what's the real cost benefit situation here" is essential but can be a really hard thing to see. There are always other viable paths to fulfillment and happiness.
Dear friend from a world away. I am still proud of you.
After two years of studying archaeology, I made the decision to take a break and take care of my mental health. I have had a lot of doubt, thinking I had not struggle enough and gave up to easily. Today I know I made the right decision then by drawing a line in the sand and putting my health first. The experience I've had those two years aren't lost and still serves me now that I started history studies from scratch. It's never wrong to put our well-being before our academic achievements ❤
Take it from this old gal - you have to live your life. The pandemic taught us all so much. Will you regret it on your deathbed?? Who knows??! You have decades to go back if you want, or to travel another road or 5 or twelve.
None of it's wasted, a waste would be keeping on with something that makes you miserable!!
One of the most wonderful things about young people today is that they are putting life before work, and I just wish that there was more support for people who want to do something different. I think it has changed an awful lot over the last 50 years, And I think social media is one huge opportunity that people who are good at it like you are can benefit from.
The hardest thing is finding a new way to talk about yourself about who you are. You get used to being oh I'm a student or oh I'm a editor or I'm a mother or.... Now I'm a retired and I don't know who the f*** I am right now. But having watched this with you makes me feel that I'm going to get on top of that soon. Thank you for the encouragement even in my dotage.