After finishing my PhD I went to a university-led session on ‘What Comes Next.’ What I heard sounded a lot like “now, you beg for money.” It was so depressing to think about all the very clever people in that room who had worked so very hard only to find out they had no financial security and would be spending most of their days asking for money. I realized that even what I thought of as the ‘safe path’ was uncertain so I may as well go after what I truly want. That led me here.
This. This I had to see for myself - the money begging approach, the insecure job of 2 or 3 years and then beg for more. I was disheartened with this also. Having a family and the need to be secure, I took my PhD into industry rather than academia. Unfortunately, I didn’t get paid for that extra achievement and feel like I’ve never fully reached my potential. All because I couldn’t get the proper assurance behind the question of, ‘and then what?’. However, getting a PhD is enjoyable and certainly fulfilling. But be prepared to do something different afterwards.
Couldn’t agree more here. I feel somewhat fortunate to have shifted my perspective in pursuing my physics PhD program as a time to learn, have fun, and then move to industry. It’s rather disheartening watching hardworking people pursue the academic dream, while making all kind of sacrifices (both personal and those related to academic politics), just to aim for a position that may or may not work out.
Hearing your story reminded me of that Franz Kafka quote: “I was ashamed of myself when I realized that life was a costume party, and I attended with my real face.” I am glad you stood your ground after all. We need more people like you, and not just in Academia.
At the Time of Franz Kafka There were yet no socialist Euroland countries promoting some bulshit agenda , but it was starting at that time. Global democracy is a scam.
Except that anyone with integrity leaves academia because it is a rotten swamp in which only shrewed and greedy people thrive... The higher up you get in the organization, the less integrity they have. Especially in the highly prestigious institutions. The corruption and self-interest is rife and little to no meaningful science is done anymore, so anyone with integrity leaves. Scientific discovery has almost completed stopped in regards to large discoveries because research there isn't profitable...
There's no good reason to wear a mask and lose your integrity. You can use your actual self, you just need to know your boundaries and have actual confidence.
Any business or undertaking these days is a emotional marathon, and anyone who puts their real self on the starting line will lose the emotionally draining commitment. Kinda the whole reason emotionally dettached people are more successful and why it seems like no one cares in business meetings.
Agree. My PhD was made that much harder by the need to sift thru 100’s of bullshit papers (pointless, poor quality and written simply to fish for citations) that Sabine calling it, is very satisfying!
Your dream didn't die, the surroundings you chose to practice it in couldn't accommodate them. You also shouldn't be ashamed at being on RUclips now. You spread your knowledge to the entire world now. And it could earn you more recognition and money than prior in the long run. You found 1.5 million likeminded people so far. So I would say you can be very proud of what you build here
The real tragedy is that you almost didn't post this video. People NEED to know what kind of world we live in. This was more valuable than 99% of commencement speeches.
This has always bothered me when I heard about people with masters degree doing work vastly different from what they worked so hard for and I was left wondering most of the time, how is this happening. This was very illuminating and I'm seething.
@skippy6086 I need an electrician frequently which is why I became one too. I have never needed a physicist and one reason I opted not to study it in college despite it being fascinating.
No offense, but she did a video on why capitalism is awesome not long ago. Many of us have been saying this for years. This is not news to LOTS of people.
I want to push back that it's not token capitualation that results in the glass ceiling for women. And programs that require diversity and representation do not reenforce outdated world views, but I respect feeling frustrated that they are not a comprohensive solution either. I refuse to take away the victories of civil rights champions of the past that forced the hand for those capitulations, even if there is still more work left to do.
I did a postdoc in the Chemistry department at the U of A (go Wildcats!) 87-89. It was my first and only postdoc; 'only' because it opened my eyes to all the things you talk about in this video and I decided that academia was not for me. I spent 8 years as a researcher in industry before discovering that the interactions between people were far more interesting than mixing differently coloured liquids in bizarrely shaped glassware. I then spent a happy career in "managing stuff" - health and safety, IT, property, new initiatives - but my love for science has never died (hence I'm here watching your videos). Old scientists never die, they just find a happy place to get by!
Dear Sabine, No, you have not failed. That you're not doing the "bs" scientific works doesn't mean that your dream of becoming a scientist failed. You're one of the best scientific minds, and your contribution to the field shouldn't be underestimated. You succeeded. Your dream is being materialized in a bit unique but beautiful way.
Yes Sabine, please keep challenging the status quo and hopefully we will return to caring about true scientific inquiry and not how to milk grant money to stuff institution's pockets.
the greedy swines get their claws into everything, they don't care about what goes on, they are just there for the $$$. And as usual, literally everything and everyone else suffers.
She has been promoting this channel for years dont listen to the narrative she is pushing. She has been ALL about being a youtuber for years now for sure her work has dropped off look at the amount of time she puts in this channel!
A bit too much? this is the worst example of a video this year. Sabine has been pushing this channel at the expense if actual research for years now any science realeated issue on this channel is fraught with innaccurate information and borderline lies.
Given the system appears to be so broken, and given it’s the people’s money at work, what could the people do to demand change? Does this have to stay broken forever?
@@Quagoo -- Excellent questions! To which I humbly add one more: Is the academic establishment even worth trying to fix, or do we need to replace it with something better?
@@Quagoospreading awareness helps. (Knowing is half the battle) But I've seen various proposals that would change the incentive structure to support good science; rather than Shitposting in scientific journals for grants. As for how to get people to adopt these new incentives? I think things will have to get worse before they get better. People are going to keep doing things just the way they are until they can't anymore.
Thankyou, that’s brutally honest, and admire your courage. I worked for a government research agency in NZ, and this all sounds depressingly familiar. Kia Kaha - be strong
I love your honesty. My brother got a PhD in theoretical physics from an Ivy League university and he felt the same way you do. He left academia a while ago and works in software now, but he still does his physics and math research every day in his spare time. I admire him a lot.
And thats why number of patents in Western countries decreased in last years. Chinese mastered it team work long time ago and thrive because of it, while here its all divide and conquer of talented motivated people
@@tatjana7008 What? US issued patents are a historic high. Also the number of patents issued has zero connection with fundamental physics research - the measure is peer reviewed publications.
@@Lavabug first of all, Sabine is not from US, she tells about experience in Germany and Europe. Second, number of confirmed patents is much important then applications, and China leads there. Third, science is interconnected and discoveries in fundamental physics might influence practical applications as well. Thats why I do theoretical computer science, because it can influence every branch of science. About papers and publications, many chairs in my university interconnected with industry, and they often end up in patents.
@@tatjana7008 The US issues more utilities patents than any other country, and many Chinese enterprises seek US patents as well. Practical applications have little to do with fundamental science, they are an accident. If you're using patent number to measure scientific progress, you have no knowledge of how science works or what counts as innovation. Patents only measure commercial products, not the generation of knowledge which far outpaces what patents indicate (I am a former patent examiner).
Yeah, spending days in YT 😂then playing victim card because life isn't easy. But she's not the only one, YT star physicists love to shine, but end up bitter and angry since they don't hand out Nobel prizes for clicks. And calling others bs (the terrible system that gave you free education) is easy, not so easy when its own
That's exactly why I never went back to academia after my master's. It was all about what to do to get that extra grant. Everyone (including myself) was writing bullshit to get grants. I used to want to become a scientist since I was a child. The reality killed that dream for me too... I totally get it.
Same here. Publishing has so much metagaming, that it's not producing good work. My thesis adviser told me to split my paper up into 3-5 papers, publish them separately and have them all cite each other to inflate my impact numbers. I knew academia was bullshit as soon as that was suggested.
The institutions are failing, and in order to save the scientific knowledge to go down with it, we need people teaching straight to the public, and not only the raw science, but all the epistemological nuances around it. You are a brave and inspiring person! Thanks ❤
When the questions you want to find answers to (buy doing science) collide with "will said answers make line go up?" Will your quest to unlock the mysteries of the universe be profitable? Isn't as much "reality" as it is "Capitalism". You, as an individual, might have as much luck changing the laws of physics as you would changing the effects that Capitalism (specifically the profit motive) has on doing science.🤷♂️
But what's the alternative that already exists? Universities have huge issues but they still do focus on topics you'd never see a fully commercialized industry indulge. It is an evil but a lesser evil. What else is there?
The International Space Federation (ISF) is happy to encourage and support independent researchers and educators working on fundamental physics problems, such as the ones Dr. Hossenfelder has been publishing and educating on for years now.
Your profile says that you are working on "harnessing quantum vacuum energy as a sustainable power source." What does that mean? Sounds awfully similar to the zero-point energy nonsense that crackpots love to bring up. What does your "federation" do, other than sell bonds?
I am a professor but totally understand the terrible rat race. i was once writing an academic book (rather well known one now) but my HoD knocked on my office door one day and told me that the university didn't value scholarship any more. i retired as soon as was financially able to, and moved to Thailand. never been back. Take care, Donald
Sawasdi kap. You and Sab have stumbled into the invisible walls of a technological house of cards. Science is supposed to be a process of discovery where we chose the most accurate way to describe observations, but that depends on who “we” are. We are not what you think we are. We are more like the subjects of the virtual world in the Matrix. Controlled with lies and a brilliant characterization of the world, however, it is built essentially on lies. We struggle not against the flesh, but against spiritual principalities in heaven and hell. It’s all about control, this world. God is. Choke di, farang.
RE: the university didn't value scholarship any more I guess they are looking for foundations for their latest propaganda projects. Research is subordinate to policy. Findings that are contrary to their policies, or their imagined ideal world, is not appreciated.
@@ibubezi7685 I always get a kick out of people who loudly proclaim "all the scientists agree on climate change", as if science was a democracy and the facts should actually care what scientists think.
@@fantabuloussnuffaluffagus Wow, you turned a video about a woman's experience into academia into some bs about some conspiracy because scientists are coming to similar conclusions about something you apparently don't want to hear about. Get help.
As a grad student, I had a professor plagiarize an entire term paper of mine which he used as a chapter in his book. My complaint to him and the department fell on deaf ears. I was told that my worked belonged to the professor because all grad work belonged to the professor who taught me. What a bunch of garbage.
My University (as most in America) expels fraudulent plagiarists, but I've never heard of professors being fired for the same reason. Do you have a link to your original publication online for us to compare his book to?
My son introduced me to you. I have enjoyed your items, some that are insightful, and others that make me think. I don't always agree with the message, but because you present reasoning, not dogma or doctrine, I find you refreshing. Your value as a teacher should always be respected. Thank you Sabine. I think of the tune of Pink Floyd about the Wall. You have broken free of the wall.
Persecuting biblical statements and chasing "Scientific disprove" of that biblical statements sounds 100% Dogmatic Atheist for Me, as example of she trying to claim that we don't have free will.
My dad was a scientist, and I watched his constant struggle with politics and funding. He had a stress-related heart attack at 50; he survived it, but was never the same afterwards.
I'm sorry for your dad! Hope his heart recovering and he takes care of himself better. Nothing is more precious than our health, not even our job or idealism.
I am PhDed in physics, from a highly reputable US university. I can assure you that her claims about how academia works--- the grad students and postdocs doing all of the work, the paper mill aspect, the huge overhead, etc.--- are entirely correct.
Suppose you have done PhD, will it give you any advantage when going to industry? It could be a possible carrier path: get PhD, get tick in the box, then go do something else.
@@justchary The only circumstances under which that has worked well, for the PhDs, that I can think of, involved PhDs in electrical engineering or computer programming or the like. Certain Silicon Valley companies had a corporate culture that valued PhDs highly. But others didn't.
Hi, my name is Curtis Smith. I earned an electrical engineering degree from UC Riverside and I am published in The Genetics Society of America. My background is Navy. I truly appreciate a kindred spirit. I would very much like to teach at Harvey Mudd (Claremont Colleges in Pasadena). I have classmates who work at JPL. My reputation is good. It is the economy’s fault, not academia, that money is king. I am ceaselessly working with others to put academic professionals in control of this country instead of lawyers and clergy. I will win.
Start with some real science and you will NO LONGER STRUGGLE: Vacuum Ambient EM Field Dipole Theory aka Quantum Inertial Dipole Theory aka Graviton Theory aka Dark Mass / Energy Theory aka Vacuum Zero Point Energy Theory aka PLANCK PARTICLE THEORY is T.O.E. postulated by the Germans and brought to fruition by US DoD via Defense Contractors like Lockheed that solved TOE so the Pentagon gave them cart blanche on CASH to designed and build working Quantum Field Densification Drives aka HFGWGs and they solved during technical material science issues during SDI STAR WARS Weapons Programs of the 1980s and 90s and the result is "UAPs" aka Hypersonic Weapons in the news for years! Work EM FIELD DRIVES have been flying for MORE THAN 4 DECADES! Now You Know Too! #FiringRoom1
When I was a grad student, I saw how the brilliant, wonderful postdocs were worn down. Not by their bosses or their science, but by the system. And after 4+ years as postdocs, they were still earning less than brand new public school teachers. We love our science but have to make a living, too.
@@casualnerdjason6678 You have the background for understanding physics now you need to take your knowledge to the edgy side of physics that is making great strides in understanding the workings of our reality. Materialism is as dead as the Big Bang is now. The new frontier is of a Conscious Universe where observation collapses the wave function into particles and atoms which creates matter as we have seen over and over again in the double slit experiments. Good luck on your journey. Remember it is always better to abandon a sinking ship early rather than later.
Hi Sabine, I’m a third year PhD student in bioengineering and I just want to say thanks for making this video. You’re the only person who I’ve heard describe exactly how I feel about academia. My dream has died too and most of the time I feel crazy because no one else seems to feel the same way, but thank you for making me feel less alone. You are brave and lovable ❤️
All this makes me happy that I'm "just" a practical nurse (as we call it here in Finland) and never had the drive for academy studies. I'm in a job that I really like and enjoy, even tho money ain't great, no stress etc at all tho :)
I'm in my second year of an evolution/genetics PhD. My lab group and the biology faculty is pretty communal and this sentiment of cynicism is common around us. We're kind of aware this is all one big passion project, and some of us might become rockstars but others are like those Disney channel celebrities who disappear after 5 years and show up working at a small town car dealership. Not sure if anyone's actually considering continuing in academia. A lot are looking at industry or government employment (our department is marine and conservation biology, in a country where seafood and agriculture are major exports).
Speaking as retired full professor (social sciences) at a research university in the in USA I fully support your decision. You play a vital role as a public intellectual helping to educate non-specialists about the state of scientific inquiry in the physical sciences. Your RUclips videos reach many more people - several orders of magnitude - than typical research publications read by a handful of specialists. So I say Bravo! Keep up the good work.
@@lighthousesaunders7242 "Respected Popperian" bro hardly any academics of philosophy take Popper seriously. But yes, if you take Popper seriously, then you have to reject sociology and economics, and some of biology and climatology would also be on shaky grounds.
There’s so much truth in this video. My experience aligns 100% with hers. Ten years ago, I dropped out of my PhD, and it was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made.
Dropped out in my first semester. In my program, maybe 1 in 5 were graduating with a PhD and then only after about 10 years. Nope, nope, nope. Took a job at the Patent Office (hey, Einstein can't be wrong), went to law school at night, and now I write abou the inventions of PhDs...actually more interesting and more variety than doing the research myself.
@@aliceglass828 people have different standards for success I suppose. You could have two noble prizes but if your goal was to cure cancer and you failed, you'd consider yourself a failure, I guess.
How is that integrity? It was simply saying no to extra, unpaid work. Integrity would be if she were the professor, in a position to take advantage of her own set of PhDs, and then said no to the system. She was standing up for herself, yes, but integrity had nothing to do with it.
@@legbert123Lmfao, so salty that you have to scroll down and talk shit about a person enjoying and supporting a content creator. It's his/her money and instead of being a douchebag, you could have used that time to actually start looking for a job!
Thank you for your work on RUclips. You touch millions of people, some of which will become the next Einstein thanks to you. I'm excited every day about your next video.
As an unemployed former multiple postdoc, I feel her pain. This emotional and actual support here above is epic. I wish I too could give such financial gift. The honesty in the video was refreshing, the absurdity of academia failed her, not the other way around. It’s bull****
Glad you left the ending in; that sums up everything you said in one sentence. _"Societal pressures too often make me unable to speak, but here at least I can choose what I say."_
We will in fact, never know if Sabine can actually choose what she can say on RUclips until the point she get’s regularly de-monetised or de-platformed. Rumble is where she’d be if in fact she did want to comment in a non-RUclips compliant way. Sabine is simply just operating in a field that is less socio-politically contentious. She’s far too intelligent to imagine her sitting in Plato’s cage with her back to the light, which makes that final statement very puzzling. Rather than underscoring her position, it undermines the viewer’s confidence that she truly understands the assaults on freedom of thought and expression and journalistic investigation that so very very many are experiencing right now.
The fact that this statement is apparently no longer in the video is incredibly suspicious. I assume Sabine was either was forced to edit it or did so out of concern that those "societal pressures" were going to come to bear on her.
Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy: In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the bureaucracy itself always get in control and those dedicated to the goals the bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have less and less influence, and sometimes are eliminated entirely.
@@wallacegrommet9343 That's a bit deceptive. Some of those administrators support instruction. Some support research grants. Sabina isn't complaining about research load as much as research priorities.
Thank you for sharing your experiences. Brave people such as yourself need to be honest about the state of physics and academia in order for it to change.
Nice quote, I did not know this. To be fair, in my experience academic management did care about science, in so far as it relates to their own interests at least. Since the issues in academia (and academic publishing) go beyond each individual institution, however, I suppose it's easy to assign blame elsewhere and perpetuate the system rather than even try to change it. This perpetuation is, incidentally of course, also to the personal benefit of academic management.
Thank you for posting this! I am 82, left the US for Germany in 1965, earned my PhD with work at a Max Planck Institute and after a 12 year stint at the MPI I got a pure research position at a major German university. I was an electron microscopist, so a lot of people needed my help. I managed to publish 100+ papers and never had to write a grant proposal. I finally became disillusioned with science in general and just wound up helping others with their research. I also struggled to help my female coworkers get the credit they deserved for the work they did. Science was always more of a hobby for me. I write this just to say, your mileage may vary. I'm sorry you had such a bitter experience, but you have taken the bull by the horns and certainly have a greater scientific impact now than if you had just gone on in research. I love your videos and your sense of humour. Liebe Grüße aus dem kühlen hessischen Vogelsberg.
I believe I had the pleasure of reading one of your papers. Good to see people of science remain around it, even when retired. All the best to you good sir!
I'm a PhD. physicist who never really had any hope of a career in academia. I really appreciate your honesty and telling it like it is. I have always found academia to be pretentious, arrogant, and intellectually stuffy. Thank you for making this video. You've earned my respect.
Hopefully you didn't get a job as a "Calibration Technician" for a company that does NIST certification of equipment. So many physics majors with BS degrees seem to enter that job market.
I was a PhD student, but I only finished with my masters. This was due to the lack of consistency between classes and the PhD exam. They would put problems on there that even the professors could not solve. They had an extra credit point system to wear a few published papers prior to the exam, you would be given credit towards the exam. There was at least one student who never took the exam and passed because they had enough papers within two years. and this is only because the professor was putting that graduate students name on the papers, even though they just started.
This is the most important science education video I have seen in years. Nobody teaches you about "the system", they just point to the goal and tell you to go as fast as possible. I fully believe you have changed my career, for the better. Being at a loss of words, all I have is a heartfelt thank you!
We have many postgrad students who see the system through us and have come to the conclusion that they don't want to be part of it. My most recently graduated PhD student wants to do research, but not be an academic. She will likely go do research for a government agency. Actually, our department has sent many of our PhD students - who 20 or even 10 years ago would have gone into academia - to government agencies... or business/industry. Running universities like a business has chased out many good researchers. Sadly, they then hire young people who never knew what it used to be like. When this is the only system you've ever known, you can't know what you're missing.
Students are to naive.. You need a certain kind of psychopathy to survive in this toxical Biotopes... But the system itself is the problem.. It produces profs as described here
I agree. This -- behind the curtains view -- has as much exposure as 'Navigating the US Tax System' and 'The US Constitution and Civic Responsibility' does in the US Department of Education's curriculum guidelines. ('Non-existent' or 'That Which Shall Not Be Named')
which is why you can reach your best potential when you ignore "down-to-earth" discouragement and just go as high as you can, because space is the limit and then you can jump yourself into orbit without easily falling back to the ground
It's hilarious how she made a video called "Capitalism is good." (it isn't, it's terrible) and now tells a story about how her academic career was ruined by capitalism and how her institute was about "money making" (yeah, that's capitalism for you - nevermind that sexism, like all identity-based ideology, is intricately linked to capitalism). Hey Sabine, how about making a video saying: "Capitalism is bad. As proven by science. And there is no evidence whatsoever to the contrary."
@@lynth And socialism is good, as proven by science? Lmao. Hundreds of millions murdered, terrible economies, plutocratic corrupt leadership masquerading as revolutionaries, uninspired artistic and cultural output, etc etc
@@lynth I thought the same thing, she even praises scientists under capitalism, saying that innovation is driven by profit, and now here she is complaining about it and how she couldn't purse her love for science, I wonder if she knows about the "boogeyman" system where science is valued as she would like. Last, she goes to say that woman shouldn't receive opportunities like she had, an the lame "this is paid by your tax money". Seriously? This kind of statements are very dangerous for science, next thing you know you have a neolib cutting education spending with the general public approval.
@@lynth you don't understand capitalism or the political nature of research institutions at all groundbreaking physics achievements in todays world are made at private companies and what do you mean by "proven by science"? you mean the academia she is talking about in this video? did you even understand one bit of it?
@@lynth Capitalism is good. The apprentice system, under the master's whim, is good for some, bad for those who don't wish to be exploited to sell textbooks.
this is honestly one of the very best videos I've ever seen on RUclips.... just when I think everything here is dishonest clickbait, I find this, and my faith that intelligent honest people still exist is restored...
I’m in Archaeology, we literally have to wait for textbook “experts” to die in order to get any chance of progressing new academic fields. For example, we couldn’t decode the Maya script for decades because the so called experts suggested instead it was just zodiac symbolism. After they died, a kid in the late 90’s finally decoded the script and we can now read Mayan written records.
A lot of fields in academia are “I get a job when someone dies” but archeology has to be pretty far up there! It’s such a shame that we either get too much young blood, like we saw in tech…. Or no new blood, like academia.
Actually, it's worse than that. There are other parts of the system that she hasn't yet looked at closely enough to realise how rotten they are. Most people don't reset their expectations for the parts they can't see to keep in line with the parts they can.
You are my hero. I am a woman with a PhD in engineering, working in a corporate research and development field. It's insane how things change for you once you get a child.
Yes. It’s very frustrating being spoken to in your career as if you are a man (when you’re not!!), with disregard for our reality as women. Having children changes you! And women who want children in their lives are often limited in opportunities.
Sabine, this was not "too much," as you said. It helped me. I just quit a job after 23 years of international travel, and I really synch up with what you said about the travel and the psychological displacement from one's own life. It took a massive toll on me, and I'm a single man without the reproductive priorities and family needs that you had. Even so, depression, broken relationships, and a sense of not belonging anywhere became chronic and damaging, not to mention the constant jet-lag and the lack of appreciation. And like you, I noticed that my institution primarily served to perpetuate itself, not do good work. Thanks for posting this! I think you did the right thing, and I finally did too.
Awesome, and I can totally relate. After 20 years in corporate business, and therefore sustaining it, three years ago my conscience had enough. I quit, changed my life around and became a professional gardener. Best decision ever. You will find your path, I’m sure. All the best 🧘🏻🤘🏻
You have not failed, "The System" is failing us all. Thank you Sabine for trying to broaden our horizons. Hopefully this brave outreach will start some meaningful conversation.
The sad part is that "the system" is made up of us, the academic people. We prioritize money, greed, and power, and in turn, make the life of other lower-level people miserable. Then, we blame "the system".
Same with NGO's honestly. A lot of people, social sciences degrees and similar stuff, who are so passionate to work with communities, with underpriviliged people, to try to approach existing issues with new techniques, are absolutely annihilated by the grant-money procedure. Just write billions of pages of bullshit, measure absolute irrelevant stats, write mind-numbing reports, and end up wasting 75% of your energy and time on all of this, and only 25% actually doing what you want to do and are actually applying for funding.
The really important part is that forum cretins will keep parroting "Peer reviews!" when such "trusted" institutions don't even have the minimal digital literacy, and I mean Harvards, too. Total rebuilding of scholarship is inevitable.
The sad part is that the system is made up of us, the academic people; we prioritize money, greed, and power, and in turn, make the life of other lower-level people miserable. Then, we blame the system.
Also a retired academic. I had decent employment, was intellectually challenged, had more free time to accomplish what I wanted than I ever would have found in any other job, but at the same time was always disappointed by the lack of collegiality and any sense of cohesiveness in the department. The milieu - populated with tremendous egos, some earned, some not so much - made for a very lonely existence. I did my research, taught my courses and went home, spending as little time on campus as possible. There were very few friends to be found in such a environment. I loved my students - the only real saving grace. Thanks for your videos.
Hey, sad to hear that. This sounds like bad luck, but you are definitly not alone. I build a new team at a company, interviewed many phd‘s. The easiest way to get them excited, was telling them that they would work with others on a common goal. I could literally see the spark in their eyes, as if they saw light for the first time after 3 years. I myself got lucky, my time during my phd was great. Insanenly interesting topic, bde ent success in my work and outstanding colleges.
The only way to get a sense of cohesiveness was to threaten to merge the department... the only time Architects seem to get along is when you suggest that the department might be replaced with a double degree of Arts and Engineering.
Post doc here. Your experience is all too relatable. You've touched on one of my biggest gripes about academia - It's not just the job insecurity/funding that's the issue - it's that it seems to support the worst kind of people in positions of power. I also understand your reservations about posting this since academia is full of adult children perpetually ready for a Witch hunt. Anyone who thinks academia is operating sustainably is kidding themselves. For context, I've just worked three back to back three month contracts. I'm currently working FOR FREE under the suggestion that "more money might become available soon... but also please keep working because it might bring in significant IP for the University and it's good for your career." It's so nice to see you made it out and are kicking ass. Cheers.
This is the kind of stuff that scares me to hell! I'm a PhD student, and will soon have to face what you're going through and I really don't think I'll survive it; but I also don't know what to do! I've thought about quitting so many times!
@raymondraillery take a lot of this with a pinch of salt. Job security is definitely an issue for post-docs, as its the unfortunate nature of the job. However, the rest is personal preference and opinions.
Ohhh god, please don't delete, this is a serious topic, I've personally got into depression because of this several times throughout my career, and i know sadly it's not just me. This hopefully will serve as an advice for future scientists.Love your work Sabire ❤
Well, given the censorship and meting out of punishments, even by governments, for "saying the wrong things" online, which she may be aware of, I get the concern she has, but my guess is that this discussion would not get her in trouble. It doesn't directly prod any politically protected sacred cows (not yet, anyway).
@@LA_HA It might not matter. It might be comparative literature. The system is so entrenched. The one university president and his/her pet projects may have only slight impact on what is expected and what gets done.
@@wendyleeconnelly2939 True and that's what I'm saying. The choices given in the type of candidates has a lot to say about what is going on within that institution. This is directly tied to what's happening in the PS/K-12 school system. What's happening there? In short, traditional values and education have been replaced with "progressive" values and disinterest in educating school children due to CRT and leftist ideological organizations that openly brag about how they're not in the education business anymore. They're in the political business now and going forward. This is Taught to students, who then go to college, graduate with this mentality and belief system, and then become college employees and professors. The connection is there for anyone who takes a moment to look. Except there's a problem... Thinking isn't taught. In fact, it's banned
@@LA_HAwrong, for instance CRT is a college course. Next progressive values I guess by that you mean critical thinking skills and a focus on S.T.E.M. It’s funny because traditional values and education immediately brings to mind religious schools where if the science doesn’t fit your 1500 year old horror anthology than the science must be wrong. Also what do you mean by traditional education , the humors, leach therapy, miasma, aroma therapy, chiropractors , or maybe phrenology. I am however sorry that conservatives long ago lost in the market place of ideas I just wish you guys would stop trying to sell people on your SECOND lost cause movement. We are not going to go back in time there is a reason progress is the root word of progressive. This time of traditional thinking wasn’t so great by the way most people call it the dark ages where positing a new theory might get you thrown in ye olde gaol maybe just for suggesting a non heliocentric view of the universe.
@@geneduffy [Edited for clarity] Thank you. I'm so glad you did exactly what you did. Otherwise, I would have wasted my time thinking an actual conversation was possible. Good Day
Unfortunately, this IS a universal story in academia. It's the dirty little secret that never seems to be talked about. Despite all that, I'm glad you have found a place for yourself and choose to share your thoughts and opinions with us all. Thank you for putting this video out!
It is spoken about, but those outside the system .. do not get heard. Listen carefully to what she says. While a bit harsh to say, she *did* know what they were doing was wrong, and she played along with it, until they bit her.
Fenomenal true exposed. Dear Sabine you are so great, worry do not, you have imense quality and you are an exceptional person. The reward will come and one day you will be happy with the output, I am sure you are happy with what you are doing now and be pleased cause it is giving you satisfaction, you do very nice, it is another road in your career. One foot on the back one step ahead. Many people know your works and they follow your career and path and they like you the way you are.
It's not really a dirty little secret. There are lots of ways to observe it, even as an undergrad if you work in someone's lab, some people who will confess especially if you ask the right questions, maybe not in physics departments because physicists have that personality. Sabine came from a family of accountants, they had some idea that money makes the world go round. Although the exact nature of academic research is something you have to experience it to understand. An outsider who doesn't know the field at an expert level won't know how much garbage is produced that serves merely to clog up the intellectual pipeline.
@@ronankelly4471 I don't know if I can blame Sabine though, she is but a human like us, and human need food on the table, especially for their family. I would like to imagine Scientist are just normal people who aren't particularly noble, nor should we expect them to be.
Sabine don't you dare take this video down - this is one of the best RUclips videos ever. Your discussion about your own life experiences are revelatory; and not just about your own life experiences. The theme of your discussion is universal: Vocation; Employment; Performance for Pay; Motives; and Outcomes. I could not myself have formulated a similar understanding of life lessons based simply on reason and personal history. Essential to the entire discussion are 'motives and real outcomes' (not just billboard outcomes)... This video was magnificent. You're magnificent ! Please continue to be there !
This matches up exactly with my 16 years at NASA. A colleague of mine called it "playing the doctor game", because all the PhD's were battling each other for the few secure jobs while the majority languished as grantees.
"Science" (Which means "through the knowledge of")...literally means being open to truth, wanting to explore the actual truth and to want to know the truth.
The other one, opposite one (cannot name the term because of the censor), is the desire for money, grants, more grants, desiring to promote a problem rather than a solution to keep a job, propagating biases and being afraid to look in another direction out of fear of being chastised and reprimanded.
This is precisely how The $ystem weeds out scientists w/ character standing on principle vs. those who'll readily sell out (i.e. produce & publish the results The $ystem wants). 😉
dreams never really die, and you did your best to transform it to something better (as a personal opinion). and you are doing AMAZING. i hope you found a way to be happy with what you do now, because a lot of people seem to enjoy it and more than this they find it useful! being truly useful is something that very few achieve in their lives.
I attempted my PhD starting in 2019 at a federal research institute and was shocked to find what Sabine is talking about. Dozens of smart people working as PhD students, post docs or engineers were repackaging the same old data they produced years ago or followed outdated ideas with seemingly no use just for the sake of writing papers. The people there knew the absurdity of the situation but the need for money and job security overshadowed everything else. Finally after two years that shattered my scientific curiosity I broke out of that madness, cancelled my PhD position and left the academic world.
Unlike you it dawned on me in my final year In college, that whilst I had adored science from my childhood, it was a career that I could not afford to chase for the rest of my adult life. Though the bug has never left me, today as I approach my 80th, year, real science education has become so accessible, thanks to you, and many like you on the net. Your wide variety subject matters, dispensed in your unique presentation style, I find educational and repeatedly amusing. Keep up the good work Sabine and stay true to your beliefs.
I am glad you posted the video! As a female academic approaching retirement (and not with a pension), I can definitely relate to what you experienced. With 24,614 comments as of my posting, it is unlikely that you will see this, but THANK YOU.
Start a business. See what people need. Fill the need. Here is a lowly occupation that will work. Laundry service. Pick it up, clean it, drop it off. So many people are so busy that in an upscale area can be a real money maker. Can start with little capital and grow. On your own time with your own ideas. Perhaps can even find a way to improve the commercial machines.
This should be a Ted Talk. This is such vital information for any graduate student to have ahead of beginning their search into PhD programmes. The reality of academia can be like a shock of ice cold water to the face. It's really inspiring to know that you achieved so much success inspite of all your adversities and the prejudice you faced, and ultimately decided you could contribute more to science from outside the system, well done!
It's the reason I didn't consider getting a doctorate and teaching at a college. Too much forcing the "publish or perish" model. And I think I would have liked the lower pressure job much better.
Dear Dr. Hossenfelder, dear Sabine, I am a marine biologist from The Netherlands and active in academia. You echoed all my frustrations about our world. Thank you for speaking your mind ❤. I too challenge my peers by asking whether they really think they're going to change the world or simply keeping themselves in business. The result: denial, or better termed cognitive dissonance. I too dream of a youtube career, but I suck at it 😅. Best of luck to you, Sabine, and thank you for your wonderful videos.
Just recently reread the bible on how God stated the kingdom of Israel to be administered. It was not as money being the God, but as the top being the servant of those placed under the top guys rule. God cared about the health and dreams of the people. No matter what system it always ends up as a pyramid. Humans just created that way. God said every 7 years was a do over. The 12 tribes of Israel had to give each person back their ancestral land. And on the year of Jubilee everyone did not work for a year. Sounds like a much better system then the worlds idea that money and profit most important. Study the bible and see what you think. There is a better way.
I think students that go to school at US universities learn this a LOT sooner than Europeans. Our tuition is part of the huge administrative bloat that is hungry for money in any form. Grants, advertising at football games, anything. 3 administrators for each tenured professor so, yep, those professors better be bringing in that sweet, sweet, grant money. After college, my daughter took a job just writing grant applications for professors. Yes, there is an admin postiion (a whole department) just for that, not to mention another department of excel spreadsheets that is all about administering the grant money. Depressing and such an inefficient use of resources.
I am so glad you posted this video. Too many people outside the scientific community think the "great professors" appear in classrooms daily to inspire students. No, teaching assistants and low paid part-time faculty teach classes. Graduate students and post-docs do the actual research. The great professors write papers, budgets, grant proposals, and reports, while going to meetings and international conferences, and churning the big money machine. Personally, 10 years after getting my doctorate from the Institute, I settled into teaching (only!) at a community college. Much happier.
Unpaid graduate students and post-docs. The running joke when I was in grad school is we were going to quit and work at McDonald’s because we were salaried at 20 hours and expected to do 40-50 so we were paid less per hour. One phd student was so good as a Teaching assistant and paper grader his advisor failed to pass his thesis so he would have to keep working until a replacement was found. Another prof we referred to as Mr. Miagi (he was white) because he famously would make his grad students do yard work for him so the joke was we were getting karate skills. Think of this next time you come across peer reviewed papers, that’s who is responsible for reviewing them. Live in the US for reference.
Ahhh, the 'Tute. The Trade School on the Charles, right? I majored in course 8 (physics). I lost my academic ambitions there, and went into software. Never looked back.
@@hugegamer5988 I saw that happen to a lot of people in my home country. People were not allowed to defend their PhD after 5-6 and more years because they were needed as cheap labour. A lot of them never got their titles because they simply could not sustain precarious living like this, wanted family etc. Many ended with years-long depression and low self-esteem. Academia is sick.
I am attending college late in life, and have been told by 3 professors in private meetings "The College is about making money, not arming students with knowledge"
I am doing my second Ph.D. in Vienna and I have very similar experience. I was forced to write a third person on my papers, who actually did nothing. I refused to do it so my advisor shouted at me that this is not an available choice. I have not changed my opinion. The results is clear, I am not hired anymore.
At my university, there are many doctors, assistant professors, and professors who fabricate data or hire college students to fake data to write articles. Some pay to get articles. Many of them don't even know English.
Sorry, that sucks. It’s funny how much airtime is given to academic “integrity”…yet this behavior persists. You can do better. Work for people you respect. You’ll live better.
@@LuizVieiraPintoNetoWow! Please give us your space and time coordinates -- is it from the milky way and/or near future, at least... So, there's a ray (or at least a photon) of hope. 😉
my advisor submitted revisions of my msc thesis that i hadn't planned to submit until later (when i had the time to do the work) with another "academic" - tl;dr, i am listed as third author on my own published research in an ok journal, but i am fairly certain that i could have published in a better journal on my own, and would have been listed as first (sole) author on the research i spent 2 yrs on (by myself)
Very true! The problem is education as a commodity and not as a service. It is fair to say that ALL educational pursuits should not be given full respect simply due to being “educational”, but when your career is more about justifying the very existence of your work, and not actually the work itself, the entire purpose becomes moot. I remember when I started my masters in counseling, I approached my advisor about what getting a doctorate would do towards helping my chances with being more research focused and he did this sad little laugh. “Getting your doctorate is only useful if you want to be a college professor or you want private schools to think you are smart; getting research grants, being allowed to do studies, and getting them published is all about who you know and how you ask, the money men don’t care about your actual knowledge” And on a fundamental level I always knew this, but hearing it really did hit different.
Honestly I haven't hit even my associate's degree in physics because life has been shit to me the last 12 years, but I always felt like that they spent too much time for making me remember my stuff in my classes then questioning the physics and why it works for various things
It seems like the universal problem isn't restricted to academia. I wager that versions of this same problem plague people in every industry and at every level of education.
Yep an ex girlfriend got a PhD in Microbiology and struggled to get decent paying employment. She ended up going back to school and becoming a dentist.
Thanks for being part of my daily mind feed. You have definitely re-awakened and sharpened my thinking about quantum physics (and other subjects) that I've had a long time interest in (like 70 years!) that I realized I did not understand throughly until listening to you. My day is not complete without watching the latest video from Sabine. And thanks for all the fish.
After 18 years, this is my first comment (and likely last comment) on RUclips. Thank you for posting this. I don't work in academia, but so much of the world feels this way. I have always admired your forthright courage, and I am saddened that somehow, academia cannot find a way to benefit from your tremendous intellect, talents, and convictions. Good luck out there!
crs, sometimes I understand your reluctance to comment. I have left reasonable, helpful comments, and someone took them the wrong way. On occasion I tried to follow up, but too often got more anger back. Now I generally ignore angry comments, and move on with my life. I have seen other RUclipsrs talking about some of the problems with academia. There are comments to this video in which they talk about leaving academia for other careers, such as medical, software, or industry. Unfortunately, nothing unique about this video.
Academic researcher (for now) here: This description is spot on. It's probably even worse in 'poorer' countries with more limited funding for research. Quite often we see that the people who get the very limited opportunities aren't those who followed the 'recipe' they've sold you from the start (work hard, go abroad, and so on...), but actually those who never moved from their original group and are basically a$$lickers to the people in charge. It's a broken system built by flawed, petty people. All the best to you. Thank you for posting this.
It's the complete opposite, we do what can we do with the budget we have, my experience was and is always researching the most interesting thing we like
Nearing the end of my academic career as a professor of astronomy for 20 years now- all I can say is you distilled academia right down to its raw core and you have amazing insight. Thank you for being bold. Thank you for sharing. I think that some of us were afraid to look behind the curtain, even though we knew what we would find there. I am definitely sharing this with some young academic researchers I know. Perhaps your message will help others see clearly earlier in their lives.
look behind the curtain? It's so obvious, it can't be more. You don't have to look behind a curtain, everything happens openly and without being afraid to show it.
It is exactly my experience and I think young researchers should be told in no uncertain terms just how toxic academia is. I spent years feeling like a failure because I didn't get tenure and it's only the advent of online fora like this that has helped me see that academia sucks, not me.
Female biologist over 40 from Germany here. That's exactly how I see it. Not only from my own experience, but also from that of many acquaintances. At the beginning, you're quite happy that you can do what you like without being bothered. By the time you write your thesis at the latest, you realize the difficulties of the system that you describe. I was also irritated by the inaccuracy with which results are produced, at least in biology. As soon as you are in the system, you also see the incompetence (technical, organizational, human) of other researchers. I often had the impression that some were simply in the right place at the right time and were just willing to play along with this application circus. As a woman, it's particularly difficult if you want to start a family. It's hardly possible without help, including financial help, from grandparents. I know some who have made it at least some way, but only with the help of their parents. Yes, the system is weak. I've seen many excellent young researchers leave because they didn't want to play this game. Nevertheless, I have also met nice, very competent colleagues who have made it - but very few.
You're supposed to be able to have a husband bring you, the mother the resources to give birth and raise your child. We have always been able to do this until the petrol dollar was invented and bankers realized they would need more workers or the system would crash too soon. One parent gets the resources and contributes to society. The other parent raises the child and contributes to your family. Corporations have demanded that both parents be tapped for work and our children have suffered dearly for it. In Ireland it's actually in their constitution that should this ever happen they have a right to dissolve the gov and start over(should a mother ever be forced to work in order to raise her child as this is the entire point of society, we know we can make a society where only one parent needs to work and so any society where 2 must is a failure and they KNEW THIS). I don't think they enforce it or they just give welfare checks to them. Regardless, only serfs and indentured servants were made to have mothers work. We have been enslaved and told it was empowering.
There was a recent Thunderf00t video on this whole topic, about his experience as a PhD in Chemistry where his supervisor was a later Nobel Prize winner Sir J. Fraser Stoddart and about how he quickly realised the guy was a snakeoil salesman producing expensive pH indicators with little future. And when he pointed this out the guy vindictively refused to supervise him anymore. And how he does the same pitch every year with molecular machines and has been involved with a bunch of shady scam beauty product companies. Didn't stop the Noble Prize commission awarding him anyway.
I'm a gardener with a lay interest in physics. Gardening is no bullshit in an otherwise cynical world. It makes for good health both physical and mental. I already had enough bullshit as an undergrad. The boffins careened off into ideological space and lost touch with the natural world, and all the brain-work made me depressed, so I started digging holes, moving rocks and planting shrubs, and this is a much happier place. I'm glad you escaped that miserable, dishonest path and took the path of truth. It is an inspiring story, and I'm a big fan. Most inspiring comments section here, too.
Please never change. I am just a normal person who missed the chance for a higher education but am very interested in a variety of of things. I do not really watch main stream TV after discovering youtube and all the fantastic contributors on this medium. You are one of my top 10 subscribed channels, very entertaining and I love your content and manage to learn a little something with every one of your videos. 🙂
Regular television programming often feels like mental poison when you have the option of watching people create things they're passionate about. I can't even stand listening to TV anymore.
Well said! Normal TV is inane and not all of us have had the opportunity to attend higher education, but we can educate ourselves and this is a great way to do it 💚
@@vyvianalcott1681 , ditto. Even the old style TV science content like BBC Horizon is incredibly low-brow compared to today's youtube content from people like Sabine. I feel like it's a golden age for lay science lovers. I threw out the TV five years ago and installed a 65-inch monitor just so I wouldn't have a TV tuner.
Nah she should change. She complains but then openly attacks anyone who actually wants to change anything. I'm not sure how you can watch this video and not come away from this with the takeaway that the money-making incentive is harming the sciences, but not only does she openly endorse the glory of the money-making incentive, every time the topic comes up she insults anyone who disagrees with it saying they fail to understand basic economics and it's the greatest thing ever. I have trouble feeling sympathetic with her when she is openly hostile to anyone who wants to actually reduce the money-making incentive in society and have institutions that are devoted to benefiting humankind first and foremost.
I've watched a number of your video's and enjoyed them immensely but this is the one that made me subscribe. Your honesty and frankness is refreshing. Keep it up!
I am very glad you posted the video. You are without a doubt one of the top science communicators in the world. Their loss is our gain. Please keep up the great work.
Dropped out of my PhD six years ago. Still struggling with the alcohol and tobacco addiction I took from those three miserable years. Constantly made to feel worthless and not doing enough. My career in industry has been amazing and constantly rewarding. Academia needs to change.
There are so many people stuck in long, unhappy marriages because the hard part is not the divorce itself but to admit that they made the wrong choice/wasted their time. You were strong, you realized it was not right and left. You can be proud. Time flies and soon these years will be distant memories, substituted by new, happier ones. Fight for yourself you deserve it and you are worth it. It's the opposite: this bullshit is not worth having you. And btw I don't know what a PhD tells you about a person but I don't think it's intelligence tbh. Maybe it's resilience or endurance... I think in this academia world not playing their game is (street) smarter..
My son is gifted, he excelled in high school we delivered to the prestigious Uni he enrolled in, a young, fit and able young man with extraordinary intellect. The Uni almost destroyed him.
Dropped out of biochem to do industrial radiography. No regrets financially- but wow, I loved biochem so much. Just the thought of 8-10 years of extremely hard schooling with tons of debt, only to hold a proverbial beggars cup to fund my research and the institution, and also with very little take home pay, was more than I could bear. I also felt like me and my colleagues were not really on a team, everyone wants to one up each other, everyone is competing for the same money. As I became adjusted to what academia really was all about, I was no longer happy with my career direction. Biochem is now only a hobby, building up a nice home lab. 1000% academia needs to change. I was so passionate but simply could not continue, I cried all the way back from the dean’s office and the whole ride home. Never was more lost in my life until that point. That was what I always loved.
Dropped out a year in. It's one of the best decisions I ever made. I moved in to language assessing and teaching for the University instead. Academia is a game, but it's a game covered with a safe friendly progressive face. Universities in my country only care about bringing in international students, so I pivoted. I gave up on a dream, but the dream was an illusion anyway.
Lovely. Your commitment to high ethics is music to my ears. Thank you. I am deeply moved by your testimony. You're not just committed to Goodness, you have gigantic balls.
You did the right thing by creating and posting this video, Sabine. More people need to know about the real state of things in academia. I myself earned a PhD in polymer chemistry and then spent 5 years as a postdoc in physical chemistry in Germany. I fully confirm that what you described is true. What really bothers me is the lack of ways for students to fight back against abusive professors. The university administration cares mostly about money. So, if a particular professor brings in a lot of grants, nobody cares how he or she treats their group. Labor laws practically don't exist or don't apply in academia. I tried to make a difference by raising these issues with my university's administration, only to be met with indifference and inaction. As long as the money comes in, there is no problem from their perspective. I realized that the only option left for me was to leave. If I couldn't change the system, I would just leave it, never come back, and notify others about the real state of things there. I started applying for real jobs and successfully got one in the semiconductor industry, where I can apply my knowledge for the real benefit of society.
I realized all this in my 4th semester of physics back in 1988 and switched to political philosophy and making clarinets. Mrs Hossenfelder deserves the Nobel Prize for this video alone! ❤
My experience parallels yours. I was pressured into overworking by an abusive professor who had 50 PhD students writing papers for him and he brought in a lot of grant funding for the university. He bullied me for showing insufficient loyalty to the fiefdom he had built within the faculty -- that I dared to collaborate with other researchers outside of his control. So I quit and now work as a software engineer.
Welcome to the real world. Do you realize your story is common in practically every aspect of human endeavor? Why do scientists believe that the laws of Physics will not apply to them?
Great post. I strongly relate and am so impressed that you raised these issues with administration. Much of the academic world is toxic and abusive in ways that would shock those outside of it. Leaving was my only option, and I understand why you did too.
Hi Sabine. My name is Mihai, i am an archaeologist with close to two decades in the industry. Tonight, I had a few pints with a friend of mine and we where talking about the same sh1tshow in our industry, academic and commercial. Your channel is a breath of fresh air and a good place to learn. Thank you for your time and effort and for this video, particularly.
... that's why I am unemployed and enjoy my life and time by learning what I want, doing recreational sports, taking strolls in the park, watching documentaries and gaming. Everything government tries to get me into work will only lead to the government paying three times more for me than it does now. I am definitely not prostituting myself in fake,-science and fake-research. To you I wish the best - and to enjoy yourself as much or even more as I do in my position. I did not choose it but rather got shifted into it...but AI adapted and now like it very much... especially because now I know what I avoided without even knowing it back then.
@@thyristothere's a bit of a difference between me, who works for a living and pays taxes and, if you live off of government assistance, meant to be a support for people who NEED OT FOR WHATEVER REASON, you... If you live of of your personal savings, I can't tell you how to live your life and spend your money. If you are on the public support, get off your effing ass and get a job, you prick.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
After finishing my PhD I went to a university-led session on ‘What Comes Next.’ What I heard sounded a lot like “now, you beg for money.” It was so depressing to think about all the very clever people in that room who had worked so very hard only to find out they had no financial security and would be spending most of their days asking for money. I realized that even what I thought of as the ‘safe path’ was uncertain so I may as well go after what I truly want. That led me here.
This. This I had to see for myself - the money begging approach, the insecure job of 2 or 3 years and then beg for more.
I was disheartened with this also. Having a family and the need to be secure, I took my PhD into industry rather than academia. Unfortunately, I didn’t get paid for that extra achievement and feel like I’ve never fully reached my potential. All because I couldn’t get the proper assurance behind the question of, ‘and then what?’.
However, getting a PhD is enjoyable and certainly fulfilling. But be prepared to do something different afterwards.
Couldn’t agree more here. I feel somewhat fortunate to have shifted my perspective in pursuing my physics PhD program as a time to learn, have fun, and then move to industry. It’s rather disheartening watching hardworking people pursue the academic dream, while making all kind of sacrifices (both personal and those related to academic politics), just to aim for a position that may or may not work out.
Find a job in applying your knowledge.
I just finished middle school and wanted to be a physicist, now I'm rethinking my dreams
Hearing your story reminded me of that Franz Kafka quote:
“I was ashamed of myself when I realized that life was a costume party, and I attended with my real face.” I am glad you stood your ground after all. We need more people like you, and not just in Academia.
Excellent quote.
At the Time of Franz Kafka There were yet no socialist Euroland countries promoting some bulshit agenda , but it was starting at that time. Global democracy is a scam.
Except that anyone with integrity leaves academia because it is a rotten swamp in which only shrewed and greedy people thrive... The higher up you get in the organization, the less integrity they have. Especially in the highly prestigious institutions. The corruption and self-interest is rife and little to no meaningful science is done anymore, so anyone with integrity leaves. Scientific discovery has almost completed stopped in regards to large discoveries because research there isn't profitable...
There's no good reason to wear a mask and lose your integrity. You can use your actual self, you just need to know your boundaries and have actual confidence.
Any business or undertaking these days is a emotional marathon, and anyone who puts their real self on the starting line will lose the emotionally draining commitment. Kinda the whole reason emotionally dettached people are more successful and why it seems like no one cares in business meetings.
Your willingness to call 'bullshit' by its name is one of the reasons I watch your channel. Hats off, carry on!
Its a good way to make money.
@@paintspot1509 it's an excellent way to be truthful..
Agree. My PhD was made that much harder by the need to sift thru 100’s of bullshit papers (pointless, poor quality and written simply to fish for citations) that Sabine calling it, is very satisfying!
This
@@enemdisk6628 BS is a name.
Welcome to am. Engl
Your dream didn't die, the surroundings you chose to practice it in couldn't accommodate them. You also shouldn't be ashamed at being on RUclips now. You spread your knowledge to the entire world now. And it could earn you more recognition and money than prior in the long run. You found 1.5 million likeminded people so far. So I would say you can be very proud of what you build here
She didn't choose the surroundings, she didn't make academia be what it is.
@MamaMia914 She could have been every other job in this world. Stop making yourself look atrocious and pretentious
The real tragedy is that you almost didn't post this video. People NEED to know what kind of world we live in. This was more valuable than 99% of commencement speeches.
This has always bothered me when I heard about people with masters degree doing work vastly different from what they worked so hard for and I was left wondering most of the time, how is this happening. This was very illuminating and I'm seething.
@skippy6086 I need an electrician frequently which is why I became one too. I have never needed a physicist and one reason I opted not to study it in college despite it being fascinating.
No offense, but she did a video on why capitalism is awesome not long ago. Many of us have been saying this for years. This is not news to LOTS of people.
agreed
@@MrCesarification which video is it
Thank you for sharing Sabine, we love you!
Yeah!! we do! ;))
My thoughts exactly!!
Me too ❤
Thank you Sabine! You are a great educator and human being.
I want to push back that it's not token capitualation that results in the glass ceiling for women.
And programs that require diversity and representation do not reenforce outdated world views, but I respect feeling frustrated that they are not a comprohensive solution either.
I refuse to take away the victories of civil rights champions of the past that forced the hand for those capitulations, even if there is still more work left to do.
My jaw dropped. That was a very powerful testimony.
Hahaha we exist 😂😂😂 .....
@@JamilaJibril-e8hwho?
No real news though.. Its how it works
@@andersfant4997 this may be obvious to insiders. But it was news to me
@@andersfant4997 if you were trans and rich and your father is billionaire things would be different
I did a postdoc in the Chemistry department at the U of A (go Wildcats!) 87-89. It was my first and only postdoc; 'only' because it opened my eyes to all the things you talk about in this video and I decided that academia was not for me. I spent 8 years as a researcher in industry before discovering that the interactions between people were far more interesting than mixing differently coloured liquids in bizarrely shaped glassware. I then spent a happy career in "managing stuff" - health and safety, IT, property, new initiatives - but my love for science has never died (hence I'm here watching your videos). Old scientists never die, they just find a happy place to get by!
Dear Sabine, No, you have not failed. That you're not doing the "bs" scientific works doesn't mean that your dream of becoming a scientist failed. You're one of the best scientific minds, and your contribution to the field shouldn't be underestimated. You succeeded. Your dream is being materialized in a bit unique but beautiful way.
Thanks for the kind words, really appreciate that. It makes it all worthwhile. ❤️
Yes Sabine, please keep challenging the status quo and hopefully we will return to caring about true scientific inquiry and not how to milk grant money to stuff institution's pockets.
I hope you’re making some of them youtube bucks at least Sabine. Keep em coming.
@@SabineHossenfelderit sounds to me that the academics failed you
the greedy swines get their claws into everything, they don't care about what goes on, they are just there for the $$$. And as usual, literally everything and everyone else suffers.
A bit too much? Perhaps the best video of the year. Thank you for being you, Sabine. - Sacramento, USA
Best video in the channel, IMO.
Bringing the issues to light is one small step towards the possibility of changing them in the future.
She has been promoting this channel for years dont listen to the narrative she is pushing. She has been ALL about being a youtuber for years now for sure her work has dropped off look at the amount of time she puts in this channel!
you sweet summer child@@eclectictech
A bit too much? this is the worst example of a video this year. Sabine has been pushing this channel at the expense if actual research for years now any science realeated issue on this channel is fraught with innaccurate information and borderline lies.
Not too much, it is just right and honest. Don’t ever change!
Thank you from the entire team!
Well done you.
Given the system appears to be so broken, and given it’s the people’s money at work, what could the people do to demand change? Does this have to stay broken forever?
@@Quagoo -- Excellent questions! To which I humbly add one more: Is the academic establishment even worth trying to fix, or do we need to replace it with something better?
@@Quagoospreading awareness helps. (Knowing is half the battle) But I've seen various proposals that would change the incentive structure to support good science; rather than Shitposting in scientific journals for grants.
As for how to get people to adopt these new incentives? I think things will have to get worse before they get better. People are going to keep doing things just the way they are until they can't anymore.
Thankyou, that’s brutally honest, and admire your courage. I worked for a government research agency in NZ, and this all sounds depressingly familiar. Kia Kaha - be strong
I love your honesty. My brother got a PhD in theoretical physics from an Ivy League university and he felt the same way you do. He left academia a while ago and works in software now, but he still does his physics and math research every day in his spare time. I admire him a lot.
And thats why number of patents in Western countries decreased in last years. Chinese mastered it team work long time ago and thrive because of it, while here its all divide and conquer of talented motivated people
@@tatjana7008 What? US issued patents are a historic high. Also the number of patents issued has zero connection with fundamental physics research - the measure is peer reviewed publications.
@@Lavabug first of all, Sabine is not from US, she tells about experience in Germany and Europe. Second, number of confirmed patents is much important then applications, and China leads there. Third, science is interconnected and discoveries in fundamental physics might influence practical applications as well. Thats why I do theoretical computer science, because it can influence every branch of science.
About papers and publications, many chairs in my university interconnected with industry, and they often end up in patents.
I also left academia, I really didn't like the way it works.
@@tatjana7008 The US issues more utilities patents than any other country, and many Chinese enterprises seek US patents as well. Practical applications have little to do with fundamental science, they are an accident. If you're using patent number to measure scientific progress, you have no knowledge of how science works or what counts as innovation. Patents only measure commercial products, not the generation of knowledge which far outpaces what patents indicate (I am a former patent examiner).
The wrong incentives always lead to the wrong results. Thanks for calling this out!
Thanks from the entire team!
Well said, Simon. Sad, but well said.
Yeah, spending days in YT 😂then playing victim card because life isn't easy. But she's not the only one, YT star physicists love to shine, but end up bitter and angry since they don't hand out Nobel prizes for clicks. And calling others bs (the terrible system that gave you free education) is easy, not so easy when its own
@@orionbetelgeuse1937 If you question the "99% consensus" you can easily estimate the chance of getting a proposal accepted. :-)
That about sums up the sad state of the world we currently inhabit.
That's exactly why I never went back to academia after my master's. It was all about what to do to get that extra grant. Everyone (including myself) was writing bullshit to get grants. I used to want to become a scientist since I was a child. The reality killed that dream for me too... I totally get it.
Same here. Publishing has so much metagaming, that it's not producing good work. My thesis adviser told me to split my paper up into 3-5 papers, publish them separately and have them all cite each other to inflate my impact numbers. I knew academia was bullshit as soon as that was suggested.
You did the right thing.
The institutions are failing, and in order to save the scientific knowledge to go down with it, we need people teaching straight to the public, and not only the raw science, but all the epistemological nuances around it. You are a brave and inspiring person! Thanks ❤
When the questions you want to find answers to (buy doing science) collide with "will said answers make line go up?"
Will your quest to unlock the mysteries of the universe be profitable? Isn't as much "reality" as it is "Capitalism".
You, as an individual, might have as much luck changing the laws of physics as you would changing the effects that Capitalism (specifically the profit motive) has on doing science.🤷♂️
But what's the alternative that already exists? Universities have huge issues but they still do focus on topics you'd never see a fully commercialized industry indulge. It is an evil but a lesser evil. What else is there?
I am a bit “too much” to most people, also. Thank you so much for your courage in posting this video. I am so grateful for you.
The International Space Federation (ISF) is happy to encourage and support independent researchers and educators working on fundamental physics problems, such as the ones Dr. Hossenfelder has been publishing and educating on for years now.
yeat better carti mid
@@ТодорБогосављевићyachty trash
Wow that is incredible I’m sure everyone appreciates your donation!!!
Your profile says that you are working on "harnessing quantum vacuum energy as a sustainable power source." What does that mean? Sounds awfully similar to the zero-point energy nonsense that crackpots love to bring up. What does your "federation" do, other than sell bonds?
Hum, do you support everyone? Cause you might be interested in talking with me.
Just sayin’ 🙃
I am a professor but totally understand the terrible rat race. i was once writing an academic book (rather well known one now) but my HoD knocked on my office door one day and told me that the university didn't value scholarship any more. i retired as soon as was financially able to, and moved to Thailand. never been back. Take care, Donald
thailand? is that not a dangerousplaceto be for a white man?
Sawasdi kap. You and Sab have stumbled into the invisible walls of a technological house of cards. Science is supposed to be a process of discovery where we chose the most accurate way to describe observations, but that depends on who “we” are. We are not what you think we are. We are more like the subjects of the virtual world in the Matrix. Controlled with lies and a brilliant characterization of the world, however, it is built essentially on lies. We struggle not against the flesh, but against spiritual principalities in heaven and hell. It’s all about control, this world. God is. Choke di, farang.
RE: the university didn't value scholarship any more
I guess they are looking for foundations for their latest propaganda projects. Research is subordinate to policy. Findings that are contrary to their policies, or their imagined ideal world, is not appreciated.
@@ibubezi7685 I always get a kick out of people who loudly proclaim "all the scientists agree on climate change", as if science was a democracy and the facts should actually care what scientists think.
@@fantabuloussnuffaluffagus Wow, you turned a video about a woman's experience into academia into some bs about some conspiracy because scientists are coming to similar conclusions about something you apparently don't want to hear about. Get help.
As a grad student, I had a professor plagiarize an entire term paper of mine which he used as a chapter in his book. My complaint to him and the department fell on deaf ears. I was told that my worked belonged to the professor because all grad work belonged to the professor who taught me. What a bunch of garbage.
Holy Sh!t… does this mean that plagiarism is a feature and not a bug of the academic landscape?!?!🤬😳
Did you get any credit/mention in References as a contributing graduate student?
That's absolutely crazy! Surely that would be illegal??
My University (as most in America) expels fraudulent plagiarists, but I've never heard of professors being fired for the same reason. Do you have a link to your original publication online for us to compare his book to?
@@freshmanenglishhelp None at all
My son introduced me to you. I have enjoyed your items, some that are insightful, and others that make me think. I don't always agree with the message, but because you present reasoning, not dogma or doctrine, I find you refreshing. Your value as a teacher should always be respected. Thank you Sabine. I think of the tune of Pink Floyd about the Wall. You have broken free of the wall.
Persecuting biblical statements and chasing "Scientific disprove" of that biblical statements sounds 100% Dogmatic Atheist for Me, as example of she trying to claim that we don't have free will.
My dad was a scientist, and I watched his constant struggle with politics and funding. He had a stress-related heart attack at 50; he survived it, but was never the same afterwards.
it's sad that happened to your dad
“Was”, did he retire or quit? And I’m sorry your dad was out through that kind of stress..
That is so sad! Im so sorry for your dad
@@margarethamaartje3716 perhaps he died.
I'm sorry for your dad! Hope his heart recovering and he takes care of himself better. Nothing is more precious than our health, not even our job or idealism.
I am PhDed in physics, from a highly reputable US university. I can assure you that her claims about how academia works--- the grad students and postdocs doing all of the work, the paper mill aspect, the huge overhead, etc.--- are entirely correct.
and I though it was a feature specific only to the Russian university I studied in.
As a 15 year old in America, screw the education systen
Suppose you have done PhD, will it give you any advantage when going to industry?
It could be a possible carrier path: get PhD, get tick in the box, then go do something else.
@@justchary The only circumstances under which that has worked well, for the PhDs, that I can think of, involved PhDs in electrical engineering or computer programming or the like. Certain Silicon Valley companies had a corporate culture that valued PhDs highly. But others didn't.
Hi, my name is Curtis Smith. I earned an electrical engineering degree from UC Riverside and I am published in The Genetics Society of America. My background is Navy. I truly appreciate a kindred spirit. I would very much like to teach at Harvey Mudd (Claremont Colleges in Pasadena). I have classmates who work at JPL. My reputation is good. It is the economy’s fault, not academia, that money is king. I am ceaselessly working with others to put academic professionals in control of this country instead of lawyers and clergy. I will win.
As a scientist struggling with the broken academic science system, I resonate with all that she said and it's totally spot on
Start with some real science and you will NO LONGER STRUGGLE: Vacuum Ambient EM Field Dipole Theory aka Quantum Inertial Dipole Theory aka Graviton Theory aka Dark Mass / Energy Theory aka Vacuum Zero Point Energy Theory aka PLANCK PARTICLE THEORY is T.O.E. postulated by the Germans and brought to fruition by US DoD via Defense Contractors like Lockheed that solved TOE so the Pentagon gave them cart blanche on CASH to designed and build working Quantum Field Densification Drives aka HFGWGs and they solved during technical material science issues during SDI STAR WARS Weapons Programs of the 1980s and 90s and the result is "UAPs" aka Hypersonic Weapons in the news for years! Work EM FIELD DRIVES have been flying for MORE THAN 4 DECADES! Now You Know Too! #FiringRoom1
When I was a grad student, I saw how the brilliant, wonderful postdocs were worn down. Not by their bosses or their science, but by the system. And after 4+ years as postdocs, they were still earning less than brand new public school teachers.
We love our science but have to make a living, too.
It’s the same for public school teachers - the system burns a human out.
@@casualnerdjason6678
You have the background for understanding physics now you need to take your knowledge to the edgy side of physics that is making great strides in understanding the workings of our reality. Materialism is as dead as the Big Bang is now. The new frontier is of a Conscious Universe where observation collapses the wave function into particles and atoms which creates matter as we have seen over and over again in the double slit experiments. Good luck on your journey. Remember it is always better to abandon a sinking ship early rather than later.
Its also my story!
Wow, what story. I just do not have words to thank you for sharing this. Thanks for posting it. Thank God this came in my feeds.
Hi Sabine, I’m a third year PhD student in bioengineering and I just want to say thanks for making this video. You’re the only person who I’ve heard describe exactly how I feel about academia. My dream has died too and most of the time I feel crazy because no one else seems to feel the same way, but thank you for making me feel less alone. You are brave and lovable ❤️
Same, while it sucks I hope you also value that you figured it out early in your academic career and not a decade and a half later….
damn I'm just about to go into bioengineering😭
All this makes me happy that I'm "just" a practical nurse (as we call it here in Finland) and never had the drive for academy studies. I'm in a job that I really like and enjoy, even tho money ain't great, no stress etc at all tho :)
@@ramseygo121 it's fine, but do it for industry, not academia.
I'm in my second year of an evolution/genetics PhD. My lab group and the biology faculty is pretty communal and this sentiment of cynicism is common around us. We're kind of aware this is all one big passion project, and some of us might become rockstars but others are like those Disney channel celebrities who disappear after 5 years and show up working at a small town car dealership. Not sure if anyone's actually considering continuing in academia. A lot are looking at industry or government employment (our department is marine and conservation biology, in a country where seafood and agriculture are major exports).
With 1.2M subscribers you have a real job! A real role, a real voice to teach what ever you want to teach! Genius!
Yep. The funny thing is, she has more subscribers & viewers than most TV shows.
Highly successful.
That’s certainly more attention than papers get
Until, of course, RUclips shuts her channel down for some obscure reason.
@CrimeaRiver But people have heard of her now.
Yes her brand imagine is valuable, once you get to her level on RUclips, type of content ,influence tv networks come chasing you.
Speaking as retired full professor (social sciences) at a research university in the in USA I fully support your decision. You play a vital role as a public intellectual helping to educate non-specialists about the state of scientific inquiry in the physical sciences. Your RUclips videos reach many more people - several orders of magnitude - than typical research publications read by a handful of specialists. So I say Bravo! Keep up the good work.
You've gotta admit, from the respected Popperian POV at least, social science should almost never be called a science?
truer words were never spoken
@@lighthousesaunders7242 "Respected Popperian" bro hardly any academics of philosophy take Popper seriously. But yes, if you take Popper seriously, then you have to reject sociology and economics, and some of biology and climatology would also be on shaky grounds.
Bravo
The problem is these videos get hijacked by conspiracy nutters, rather then anybody who could do anything about the issues she raises
There’s so much truth in this video. My experience aligns 100% with hers. Ten years ago, I dropped out of my PhD, and it was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made.
Dropped out in my first semester. In my program, maybe 1 in 5 were graduating with a PhD and then only after about 10 years. Nope, nope, nope. Took a job at the Patent Office (hey, Einstein can't be wrong), went to law school at night, and now I write abou the inventions of PhDs...actually more interesting and more variety than doing the research myself.
"He got angry, and I laughed at him..."
I love it.
❤
My respect for you hit a new high when I heard you say that!
Probably the most german part of this video. Loved it.
@Buttercupz2001 your mom said you are in trouble for not making your bed this morning
@Buttercupz2001 I'd bet he'll use a lot more long words in describing the interview.
"I am failed", something we rarely hear on social media, while everyone tells success stories here. Bold statement
Hi failed, I'm dad
@@gregh5061 Hi dad and failed, I'm Sigma DeLigma
failed is a bold statement indeed given she has a phd and raised two children
@@aliceglass828 people have different standards for success I suppose. You could have two noble prizes but if your goal was to cure cancer and you failed, you'd consider yourself a failure, I guess.
@@gregh5061 no shit sherlock
And it's the story of a successful science educator who touched millions and made the world a slightly better place. Thank you, Sabine.
I just loved it when you said NO to work for that professor, THATS what I call true integrity 🤩
Yeah big balls for that, props.
@@Broken_robot1986 yes, pukaaluwo
Science is Dead, only China and Russia care about it.
How is that integrity? It was simply saying no to extra, unpaid work. Integrity would be if she were the professor, in a position to take advantage of her own set of PhDs, and then said no to the system. She was standing up for herself, yes, but integrity had nothing to do with it.
Well he didn't hire her, did he?
Thanks for sharing your story. We love your style, your humor and your honesty! The world needs more of you.
100 bucks well spent
@@legbert123you clearly know nothing about her channel and the things she's working on man o.O
@@legbert123Lmfao, so salty that you have to scroll down and talk shit about a person enjoying and supporting a content creator. It's his/her money and instead of being a douchebag, you could have used that time to actually start looking for a job!
@@legbert123 What a nasty man!
@@小鳥ちゃん Such as?
Thank you for your work on RUclips. You touch millions of people, some of which will become the next Einstein thanks to you.
I'm excited every day about your next video.
As an unemployed former multiple postdoc, I feel her pain. This emotional and actual support here above is epic. I wish I too could give such financial gift. The honesty in the video was refreshing, the absurdity of academia failed her, not the other way around. It’s bull****
@@Elo-hv3fw Just like He Who Shall Not be Named made Harry Potter.
Unfortunately Albert was a HUGE HUGE fraud. Weird so many bright people are unable to grasp that. Read Phyllis Schlafly's book.
@@Elo-hv3fw Yeah, that guy.
Thanks, Sabine. Your story is important. So is your work.
Indeed!
Glad you left the ending in; that sums up everything you said in one sentence. _"Societal pressures too often make me unable to speak, but here at least I can choose what I say."_
This is by far your most brilliant video.❤
That conclusion is no true. YT's terms and the algorithms decide what you can and can't say and or write on this platform.
We will in fact, never know if Sabine can actually choose what she can say on RUclips until the point she get’s regularly de-monetised or de-platformed.
Rumble is where she’d be if in fact she did want to comment in a non-RUclips compliant way.
Sabine is simply just operating in a field that is less socio-politically contentious.
She’s far too intelligent to imagine her sitting in Plato’s cage with her back to the light, which makes that final statement very puzzling. Rather than underscoring her position, it undermines the viewer’s confidence that she truly understands the assaults on freedom of thought and expression and journalistic investigation that so very very many are experiencing right now.
@@07Flash11MRC - edit that comment, to make it say what you intended... ??
The fact that this statement is apparently no longer in the video is incredibly suspicious. I assume Sabine was either was forced to edit it or did so out of concern that those "societal pressures" were going to come to bear on her.
Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy:
In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the bureaucracy itself always get in control and those dedicated to the goals the bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have less and less influence, and sometimes are eliminated entirely.
In isolated islands, visionaries who understand this law gain power and work hard against it.
But it's a Sisyphean task.
Witness the ratio of administrators to teachers in the California State University system. 18 to 1 in against the instructors!
@@wallacegrommet9343 That's a bit deceptive. Some of those administrators support instruction. Some support research grants. Sabina isn't complaining about research load as much as research priorities.
Thank you for sharing your experiences. Brave people such as yourself need to be honest about the state of physics and academia in order for it to change.
Nice quote, I did not know this. To be fair, in my experience academic management did care about science, in so far as it relates to their own interests at least. Since the issues in academia (and academic publishing) go beyond each individual institution, however, I suppose it's easy to assign blame elsewhere and perpetuate the system rather than even try to change it. This perpetuation is, incidentally of course, also to the personal benefit of academic management.
Thank you for posting this! I am 82, left the US for Germany in 1965, earned my PhD with work at a Max Planck Institute and after a 12 year stint at the MPI I got a pure research position at a major German university. I was an electron microscopist, so a lot of people needed my help. I managed to publish 100+ papers and never had to write a grant proposal. I finally became disillusioned with science in general and just wound up helping others with their research. I also struggled to help my female coworkers get the credit they deserved for the work they did. Science was always more of a hobby for me. I write this just to say, your mileage may vary. I'm sorry you had such a bitter experience, but you have taken the bull by the horns and certainly have a greater scientific impact now than if you had just gone on in research. I love your videos and your sense of humour. Liebe Grüße aus dem kühlen hessischen Vogelsberg.
I believe I had the pleasure of reading one of your papers. Good to see people of science remain around it, even when retired. All the best to you good sir!
@@MrQwertyman111 Thanks kindly.
I love the personal story and being candid
I'm a PhD. physicist who never really had any hope of a career in academia. I really appreciate your honesty and telling it like it is. I have always found academia to be pretentious, arrogant, and intellectually stuffy. Thank you for making this video. You've earned my respect.
And you’re a man?!?
So, what do you do?
Only academics use words like "intellectually stuffy" hahaha
Hopefully you didn't get a job as a "Calibration Technician" for a company that does NIST certification of equipment. So many physics majors with BS degrees seem to enter that job market.
I was a PhD student, but I only finished with my masters. This was due to the lack of consistency between classes and the PhD exam. They would put problems on there that even the professors could not solve. They had an extra credit point system to wear a few published papers prior to the exam, you would be given credit towards the exam. There was at least one student who never took the exam and passed because they had enough papers within two years. and this is only because the professor was putting that graduate students name on the papers, even though they just started.
This is the most important science education video I have seen in years. Nobody teaches you about "the system", they just point to the goal and tell you to go as fast as possible. I fully believe you have changed my career, for the better. Being at a loss of words, all I have is a heartfelt thank you!
We have many postgrad students who see the system through us and have come to the conclusion that they don't want to be part of it. My most recently graduated PhD student wants to do research, but not be an academic. She will likely go do research for a government agency. Actually, our department has sent many of our PhD students - who 20 or even 10 years ago would have gone into academia - to government agencies... or business/industry. Running universities like a business has chased out many good researchers. Sadly, they then hire young people who never knew what it used to be like. When this is the only system you've ever known, you can't know what you're missing.
Students are to naive.. You need a certain kind of psychopathy to survive in this toxical Biotopes... But the system itself is the problem.. It produces profs as described here
Great video, absolutely spot on. It still baffles me how you insist you are not autistic, "just German". Nope. 🤔🤷🏽🙄
I agree. This -- behind the curtains view -- has as much exposure as 'Navigating the US Tax System' and 'The US Constitution and Civic Responsibility' does in the US Department of Education's curriculum guidelines.
('Non-existent' or 'That Which Shall Not Be Named')
Sometimes, when you jump off a cliff, you don't fall, you fly. Enjoy the view and thank you for your honesty and integrity.
which is why you can reach your best potential when you ignore "down-to-earth" discouragement and just go as high as you can, because space is the limit and then you can jump yourself into orbit without easily falling back to the ground
This was just the right amount! You're awesome for this!
Perhaps the most honest and refreshing video I’ve ever seen on RUclips.
Thank you for sharing.
Best video ever! Your honesty and integrity is greatly appreciated by your audience!
Sabine didn’t fail, the system failed her. It’s tragic when talent and passion is squandered by broken institutions.
It's hilarious how she made a video called "Capitalism is good." (it isn't, it's terrible) and now tells a story about how her academic career was ruined by capitalism and how her institute was about "money making" (yeah, that's capitalism for you - nevermind that sexism, like all identity-based ideology, is intricately linked to capitalism).
Hey Sabine, how about making a video saying: "Capitalism is bad. As proven by science. And there is no evidence whatsoever to the contrary."
@@lynth And socialism is good, as proven by science? Lmao. Hundreds of millions murdered, terrible economies, plutocratic corrupt leadership masquerading as revolutionaries, uninspired artistic and cultural output, etc etc
@@lynth I thought the same thing, she even praises scientists under capitalism, saying that innovation is driven by profit, and now here she is complaining about it and how she couldn't purse her love for science, I wonder if she knows about the "boogeyman" system where science is valued as she would like. Last, she goes to say that woman shouldn't receive opportunities like she had, an the lame "this is paid by your tax money". Seriously? This kind of statements are very dangerous for science, next thing you know you have a neolib cutting education spending with the general public approval.
@@lynth you don't understand capitalism or the political nature of research institutions at all
groundbreaking physics achievements in todays world are made at private companies
and what do you mean by "proven by science"? you mean the academia she is talking about in this video? did you even understand one bit of it?
@@lynth Capitalism is good. The apprentice system, under the master's whim, is good for some, bad for those who don't wish to be exploited to sell textbooks.
this is honestly one of the very best videos I've ever seen on RUclips.... just when I think everything here is dishonest clickbait, I find this, and my faith that intelligent honest people still exist is restored...
I’m in Archaeology, we literally have to wait for textbook “experts” to die in order to get any chance of progressing new academic fields. For example, we couldn’t decode the Maya script for decades because the so called experts suggested instead it was just zodiac symbolism. After they died, a kid in the late 90’s finally decoded the script and we can now read Mayan written records.
A lot of fields in academia are “I get a job when someone dies” but archeology has to be pretty far up there! It’s such a shame that we either get too much young blood, like we saw in tech…. Or no new blood, like academia.
Planck's Principle that (paraphrased) science progresses one funeral at a time certainly seems to apply.
@@mikesmith1817 🤣
to be fair waiting for the big guys to die really sounds like archaeology xD
@@lorenzo121191 hahaha good one
Sadly, your diagnosis of the problems with academic research institutions is spot on.
Actually, it's worse than that. There are other parts of the system that she hasn't yet looked at closely enough to realise how rotten they are. Most people don't reset their expectations for the parts they can't see to keep in line with the parts they can.
@@Lamarth1 what parts?
@@Lamarth1 nonsense
@@johndor7793gotta be a flat earther or something Lol
@@johndor7793 For instance the Perpetuum Mobile that allows scientific publishers to generate revenue from thin air.
Got fired from a job you didn’t have!
What a world we live in!
I’ve had a rejection letter for a position I never applied for. I wish now that I’d kept it.
Now THAT'S a badge of honor to wear proudly! And so is your astuteness in pointing it out. 😊
@@suestreet9934 -I got an approval for a gambling licence I didn't apply for - lol...
Power-tripping is extremely common in academia.
Should have reported to him to hr and have him dismissed.
You are my hero. I am a woman with a PhD in engineering, working in a corporate research and development field. It's insane how things change for you once you get a child.
Yes. It’s very frustrating being spoken to in your career as if you are a man (when you’re not!!), with disregard for our reality as women. Having children changes you! And women who want children in their lives are often limited in opportunities.
@@kellyleganyou made a choice. Join the club.
Sabine, this was not "too much," as you said. It helped me. I just quit a job after 23 years of international travel, and I really synch up with what you said about the travel and the psychological displacement from one's own life. It took a massive toll on me, and I'm a single man without the reproductive priorities and family needs that you had. Even so, depression, broken relationships, and a sense of not belonging anywhere became chronic and damaging, not to mention the constant jet-lag and the lack of appreciation. And like you, I noticed that my institution primarily served to perpetuate itself, not do good work. Thanks for posting this! I think you did the right thing, and I finally did too.
Awesome, and I can totally relate. After 20 years in corporate business, and therefore sustaining it, three years ago my conscience had enough. I quit, changed my life around and became a professional gardener. Best decision ever.
You will find your path, I’m sure. All the best 🧘🏻🤘🏻
Now find the hobby and follow the dream. Regrow your dreams.
You have not failed, "The System" is failing us all. Thank you Sabine for trying to broaden our horizons. Hopefully this brave outreach will start some meaningful conversation.
The sad part is that "the system" is made up of us, the academic people. We prioritize money, greed, and power, and in turn, make the life of other lower-level people miserable. Then, we blame "the system".
Same with NGO's honestly. A lot of people, social sciences degrees and similar stuff, who are so passionate to work with communities, with underpriviliged people, to try to approach existing issues with new techniques, are absolutely annihilated by the grant-money procedure. Just write billions of pages of bullshit, measure absolute irrelevant stats, write mind-numbing reports, and end up wasting 75% of your energy and time on all of this, and only 25% actually doing what you want to do and are actually applying for funding.
The really important part is that forum cretins will keep parroting "Peer reviews!" when such "trusted" institutions don't even have the minimal digital literacy, and I mean Harvards, too. Total rebuilding of scholarship is inevitable.
Go for a PhD in "The Art of Sustainable Bullshit" and you will be a winner.
The sad part is that the system is made up of us, the academic people; we prioritize money, greed, and power, and in turn, make the life of other lower-level people miserable. Then, we blame the system.
Also a retired academic. I had decent employment, was intellectually challenged, had more free time to accomplish what I wanted than I ever would have found in any other job, but at the same time was always disappointed by the lack of collegiality and any sense of cohesiveness in the department. The milieu - populated with tremendous egos, some earned, some not so much - made for a very lonely existence. I did my research, taught my courses and went home, spending as little time on campus as possible. There were very few friends to be found in such a environment. I loved my students - the only real saving grace. Thanks for your videos.
Is it the doctoral defence which turns ourselves so offensive afterwards?
Hey, sad to hear that. This sounds like bad luck, but you are definitly not alone.
I build a new team at a company, interviewed many phd‘s. The easiest way to get them excited, was telling them that they would work with others on a common goal. I could literally see the spark in their eyes, as if they saw light for the first time after 3 years.
I myself got lucky, my time during my phd was great. Insanenly interesting topic, bde ent success in my work and outstanding colleges.
The only way to get a sense of cohesiveness was to threaten to merge the department... the only time Architects seem to get along is when you suggest that the department might be replaced with a double degree of Arts and Engineering.
@@fly_8659 hehe good story.
I'm so happy that I found you on RUclips! Sorry about your dream, but you have no idea how many you can influence and educate through this platform.
Post doc here. Your experience is all too relatable. You've touched on one of my biggest gripes about academia - It's not just the job insecurity/funding that's the issue - it's that it seems to support the worst kind of people in positions of power. I also understand your reservations about posting this since academia is full of adult children perpetually ready for a Witch hunt. Anyone who thinks academia is operating sustainably is kidding themselves. For context, I've just worked three back to back three month contracts. I'm currently working FOR FREE under the suggestion that "more money might become available soon... but also please keep working because it might bring in significant IP for the University and it's good for your career." It's so nice to see you made it out and are kicking ass. Cheers.
This is the kind of stuff that scares me to hell! I'm a PhD student, and will soon have to face what you're going through and I really don't think I'll survive it; but I also don't know what to do! I've thought about quitting so many times!
You havnt seen anything yet then. Just wait till you get into the private sector.
@raymondraillery take a lot of this with a pinch of salt.
Job security is definitely an issue for post-docs, as its the unfortunate nature of the job. However, the rest is personal preference and opinions.
@@raymondraillery I wouldn't be too worried. A PhD will open doors for you in many jobs outside of academia.
How can I deal with the “money is coming soon”? I have the same problem as you…
Ohhh god, please don't delete, this is a serious topic, I've personally got into depression because of this several times throughout my career, and i know sadly it's not just me. This hopefully will serve as an advice for future scientists.Love your work Sabire ❤
A video that ends with I’m not sure I will post this, is the one that needs to be posted. And we the internet are glad you did! Go Sabine!
✅🙏🏻
Well, given the censorship and meting out of punishments, even by governments, for "saying the wrong things" online, which she may be aware of, I get the concern she has, but my guess is that this discussion would not get her in trouble. It doesn't directly prod any politically protected sacred cows (not yet, anyway).
Yes.
Amen!
I am glad this was not another unfinished symphony.
I am retired now, but my own experience resonates with yours. You are right to raise this.
"The moment you put people into big institutions the goal shifts from knowledge seeking to money making." Very well said.
What is the background of the university president? Is it Philosophy or Education-focused?
Or is it Business-centered?
@@LA_HA It might not matter. It might be comparative literature. The system is so entrenched. The one university president and his/her pet projects may have only slight impact on what is expected and what gets done.
@@wendyleeconnelly2939 True and that's what I'm saying. The choices given in the type of candidates has a lot to say about what is going on within that institution.
This is directly tied to what's happening in the PS/K-12 school system. What's happening there?
In short, traditional values and education have been replaced with "progressive" values and disinterest in educating school children due to CRT and leftist ideological organizations that openly brag about how they're not in the education business anymore. They're in the political business now and going forward.
This is Taught to students, who then go to college, graduate with this mentality and belief system, and then become college employees and professors.
The connection is there for anyone who takes a moment to look. Except there's a problem...
Thinking isn't taught. In fact, it's banned
@@LA_HAwrong, for instance CRT is a college course. Next progressive values I guess by that you mean critical thinking skills and a focus on S.T.E.M. It’s funny because traditional values and education immediately brings to mind religious schools where if the science doesn’t fit your 1500 year old horror anthology than the science must be wrong. Also what do you mean by traditional education , the humors, leach therapy, miasma, aroma therapy, chiropractors , or maybe phrenology. I am however sorry that conservatives long ago lost in the market place of ideas I just wish you guys would stop trying to sell people on your SECOND lost cause movement. We are not going to go back in time there is a reason progress is the root word of progressive. This time of traditional thinking wasn’t so great by the way most people call it the dark ages where positing a new theory might get you thrown in ye olde gaol maybe just for suggesting a non heliocentric view of the universe.
@@geneduffy [Edited for clarity] Thank you. I'm so glad you did exactly what you did. Otherwise, I would have wasted my time thinking an actual conversation was possible.
Good Day
Unfortunately, this IS a universal story in academia. It's the dirty little secret that never seems to be talked about. Despite all that, I'm glad you have found a place for yourself and choose to share your thoughts and opinions with us all.
Thank you for putting this video out!
It is spoken about, but those outside the system .. do not get heard. Listen carefully to what she says.
While a bit harsh to say, she *did* know what they were doing was wrong, and she played along with it,
until they bit her.
Fenomenal true exposed. Dear Sabine you are so great, worry do not, you have imense quality and you are an exceptional person. The reward will come and one day you will be happy with the output, I am sure you are happy with what you are doing now and be pleased cause it is giving you satisfaction, you do very nice, it is another road in your career. One foot on the back one step ahead. Many people know your works and they follow your career and path and they like you the way you are.
It's not really a dirty little secret. There are lots of ways to observe it, even as an undergrad if you work in someone's lab, some people who will confess especially if you ask the right questions, maybe not in physics departments because physicists have that personality. Sabine came from a family of accountants, they had some idea that money makes the world go round. Although the exact nature of academic research is something you have to experience it to understand. An outsider who doesn't know the field at an expert level won't know how much garbage is produced that serves merely to clog up the intellectual pipeline.
@@ronankelly4471 I don't know if I can blame Sabine though, she is but a human like us, and human need food on the table, especially for their family. I would like to imagine Scientist are just normal people who aren't particularly noble, nor should we expect them to be.
Sabine don't you dare take this video down - this is one of the best RUclips videos ever.
Your discussion about your own life experiences are revelatory; and not just about your own life experiences.
The theme of your discussion is universal: Vocation; Employment; Performance for Pay; Motives; and Outcomes.
I could not myself have formulated a similar understanding of life lessons based simply on reason and personal history. Essential to the entire discussion are 'motives and real outcomes' (not just billboard outcomes)... This video was magnificent. You're magnificent ! Please continue to be there !
Brilliant video Sabine ❤ Same here...
SO glad you decided to post this video after all. THANK YOU for sharing your story.
This matches up exactly with my 16 years at NASA. A colleague of mine called it "playing the doctor game", because all the PhD's were battling each other for the few secure jobs while the majority languished as grantees.
"Science" (Which means "through the knowledge of")...literally means being open to truth, wanting to explore the actual truth and to want to know the truth.
The other one, opposite one (cannot name the term because of the censor), is the desire for money, grants, more grants, desiring to promote a problem rather than a solution to keep a job, propagating biases and being afraid to look in another direction out of fear of being chastised and reprimanded.
You sound like you were a contractor instead of a government employee. Why didn't you hire on with the Federal Government?
She got what she gave out to Kaku and others in his field daring to tell them that they were wasting resources that should go to real fields of study.
This is precisely how The $ystem weeds out scientists w/ character standing on principle vs. those who'll readily sell out (i.e. produce & publish the results The $ystem wants). 😉
This level of honesty is why I follow your channel. Thank you for sharing your story.
The truth is she has spent all her time and effort into a you tube channel.
dreams never really die, and you did your best to transform it to something better (as a personal opinion). and you are doing AMAZING. i hope you found a way to be happy with what you do now, because a lot of people seem to enjoy it and more than this they find it useful! being truly useful is something that very few achieve in their lives.
I attempted my PhD starting in 2019 at a federal research institute and was shocked to find what Sabine is talking about. Dozens of smart people working as PhD students, post docs or engineers were repackaging the same old data they produced years ago or followed outdated ideas with seemingly no use just for the sake of writing papers. The people there knew the absurdity of the situation but the need for money and job security overshadowed everything else. Finally after two years that shattered my scientific curiosity I broke out of that madness, cancelled my PhD position and left the academic world.
Unlike you it dawned on me in my final year In college, that whilst I had adored science from my childhood, it was a career that I could not afford to chase for the rest of my adult life. Though the bug has never left me, today as I approach my 80th, year, real science education has become so accessible, thanks to you, and many like you on the net. Your wide variety subject matters, dispensed in your unique presentation style, I find educational and repeatedly amusing. Keep up the good work Sabine and stay true to your beliefs.
What you do now ?
@@productivitysharma3455 Grubhub
This is the most honest and accurate description of acedemic research i have ever seen. Thank you for posting this video.
I am glad you posted the video! As a female academic approaching retirement (and not with a pension), I can definitely relate to what you experienced. With 24,614 comments as of my posting, it is unlikely that you will see this, but THANK YOU.
Sorry about your pension
I see you and you deserve better
I see you.
I see you as well!
Start a business. See what people need. Fill the need. Here is a lowly occupation that will work. Laundry service. Pick it up, clean it, drop it off. So many people are so busy that in an upscale area can be a real money maker. Can start with little capital and grow. On your own time with your own ideas. Perhaps can even find a way to improve the commercial machines.
Her honesty is refreshing!
This should be a Ted Talk. This is such vital information for any graduate student to have ahead of beginning their search into PhD programmes. The reality of academia can be like a shock of ice cold water to the face. It's really inspiring to know that you achieved so much success inspite of all your adversities and the prejudice you faced, and ultimately decided you could contribute more to science from outside the system, well done!
question is
who'd fund that
So that people can watch it, think to themselves "i am so smart that i watch stuff like that" only to to never think about it again?
Amen to that!❤
@@angngocminh3830Good One!😂
It's the reason I didn't consider getting a doctorate and teaching at a college. Too much forcing the "publish or perish" model.
And I think I would have liked the lower pressure job much better.
Dear Dr. Hossenfelder, dear Sabine, I am a marine biologist from The Netherlands and active in academia. You echoed all my frustrations about our world. Thank you for speaking your mind ❤. I too challenge my peers by asking whether they really think they're going to change the world or simply keeping themselves in business. The result: denial, or better termed cognitive dissonance. I too dream of a youtube career, but I suck at it 😅. Best of luck to you, Sabine, and thank you for your wonderful videos.
You do know people can tell when you are BSing right. Nobody goes into marine biology thinking they will "change the world".
fake it till you make it, and don't count on youtube, post on 4 or 5 different platforms, facebook, odysee, rumble, tiktok, maybe discord, etc.
What do you do as a marine biologist?
@@zet0korp don't believe everything you read in RUclips comments.
Change the world? You’re one of those scientists. Im glad they ignore you. Wait for the next Era, the world would have changed.
YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD! It is not for knowledge's sake but for money! We all love you Sabine!
Just recently reread the bible on how God stated the kingdom of Israel to be administered. It was not as money being the God, but as the top being the servant of those placed under the top guys rule. God cared about the health and dreams of the people.
No matter what system it always ends up as a pyramid. Humans just created that way. God said every 7 years was a do over. The 12 tribes of Israel had to give each person back their ancestral land. And on the year of Jubilee everyone did not work for a year.
Sounds like a much better system then the worlds idea that money and profit most important. Study the bible and see what you think. There is a better way.
I think students that go to school at US universities learn this a LOT sooner than Europeans. Our tuition is part of the huge administrative bloat that is hungry for money in any form. Grants, advertising at football games, anything. 3 administrators for each tenured professor so, yep, those professors better be bringing in that sweet, sweet, grant money. After college, my daughter took a job just writing grant applications for professors. Yes, there is an admin postiion (a whole department) just for that, not to mention another department of excel spreadsheets that is all about administering the grant money. Depressing and such an inefficient use of resources.
If only people were as open as you, thankyou for sharing your story 💙
I am so glad you posted this video. Too many people outside the scientific community think the "great professors" appear in classrooms daily to inspire students. No, teaching assistants and low paid part-time faculty teach classes. Graduate students and post-docs do the actual research. The great professors write papers, budgets, grant proposals, and reports, while going to meetings and international conferences, and churning the big money machine.
Personally, 10 years after getting my doctorate from the Institute, I settled into teaching (only!) at a community college. Much happier.
The great professors write very few papers, if any.
Unpaid graduate students and post-docs. The running joke when I was in grad school is we were going to quit and work at McDonald’s because we were salaried at 20 hours and expected to do 40-50 so we were paid less per hour. One phd student was so good as a Teaching assistant and paper grader his advisor failed to pass his thesis so he would have to keep working until a replacement was found. Another prof we referred to as Mr. Miagi (he was white) because he famously would make his grad students do yard work for him so the joke was we were getting karate skills.
Think of this next time you come across peer reviewed papers, that’s who is responsible for reviewing them.
Live in the US for reference.
Ahhh, the 'Tute. The Trade School on the Charles, right? I majored in course 8 (physics).
I lost my academic ambitions there, and went into software. Never looked back.
@@hugegamer5988 I saw that happen to a lot of people in my home country. People were not allowed to defend their PhD after 5-6 and more years because they were needed as cheap labour. A lot of them never got their titles because they simply could not sustain precarious living like this, wanted family etc. Many ended with years-long depression and low self-esteem. Academia is sick.
@@BillMitchell-lm8dg Bingo! I measure my bridges in Smoots.
F**ing brilliant. This just elevated Sabine and her channel to another level for me. And I will venture to say- for many others as well.
100%
absolutely. not surprised, but wow ya. This is a big moment.
Agreed
She is beyond brilliant
"I think I owe you an explanation"
- No you don't, but I am glad you did give it anyway and I found your perspective very interesting.
I am attending college late in life, and have been told by 3 professors in private meetings "The College is about making money, not arming students with knowledge"
I am doing my second Ph.D. in Vienna and I have very similar experience. I was forced to write a third person on my papers, who actually did nothing. I refused to do it so my advisor shouted at me that this is not an available choice. I have not changed my opinion. The results is clear, I am not hired anymore.
At my university, there are many doctors, assistant professors, and professors who fabricate data or hire college students to fake data to write articles. Some pay to get articles. Many of them don't even know English.
I’d sue. Back where I am from, this is fraud and infringes Worker Rights. Jail Time 100%.
Sorry, that sucks. It’s funny how much airtime is given to academic “integrity”…yet this behavior persists.
You can do better. Work for people you respect. You’ll live better.
@@LuizVieiraPintoNetoWow! Please give us your space and time coordinates -- is it from the milky way and/or near future, at least... So, there's a ray (or at least a photon) of hope. 😉
my advisor submitted revisions of my msc thesis that i hadn't planned to submit until later (when i had the time to do the work) with another "academic" - tl;dr, i am listed as third author on my own published research in an ok journal, but i am fairly certain that i could have published in a better journal on my own, and would have been listed as first (sole) author on the research i spent 2 yrs on (by myself)
Phd in Biology from USA here. This is a universal problem, and I needed to hear this. Thank you.
Welcome to the world of academia and "higher education". It is not about education and enlightenment. It is an INDUSTRY.
Very true! The problem is education as a commodity and not as a service. It is fair to say that ALL educational pursuits should not be given full respect simply due to being “educational”, but when your career is more about justifying the very existence of your work, and not actually the work itself, the entire purpose becomes moot.
I remember when I started my masters in counseling, I approached my advisor about what getting a doctorate would do towards helping my chances with being more research focused and he did this sad little laugh. “Getting your doctorate is only useful if you want to be a college professor or you want private schools to think you are smart; getting research grants, being allowed to do studies, and getting them published is all about who you know and how you ask, the money men don’t care about your actual knowledge”
And on a fundamental level I always knew this, but hearing it really did hit different.
Honestly I haven't hit even my associate's degree in physics because life has been shit to me the last 12 years, but I always felt like that
they spent too much time for making me remember my stuff in my classes then questioning the physics and why it works for various things
It seems like the universal problem isn't restricted to academia. I wager that versions of this same problem plague people in every industry and at every level of education.
Yep an ex girlfriend got a PhD in Microbiology and struggled to get decent paying employment. She ended up going back to school and becoming a dentist.
Thanks for being part of my daily mind feed. You have definitely re-awakened and sharpened my thinking about quantum physics (and other subjects) that I've had a long time interest in (like 70 years!) that I realized I did not understand throughly until listening to you. My day is not complete without watching the latest video from Sabine. And thanks for all the fish.
she gives you fish? where did I go wrong?
I think your RUclips channel is great!! I have learned tons!!
Yes!
Not fitting-in is one of your best qualities. The world is a scary cookie cutter, but you are your own cookie. We need more people like you.
After 18 years, this is my first comment (and likely last comment) on RUclips.
Thank you for posting this. I don't work in academia, but so much of the world feels this way. I have always admired your forthright courage, and I am saddened that somehow, academia cannot find a way to benefit from your tremendous intellect, talents, and convictions.
Good luck out there!
This is just a single person's opinion on a huge field.
THIS IS ACADEMIA.
@@TheMelik85 unfortunately
crs, sometimes I understand your reluctance to comment. I have left reasonable, helpful comments, and someone took them the wrong way. On occasion I tried to follow up, but too often got more anger back. Now I generally ignore angry comments, and move on with my life.
I have seen other RUclipsrs talking about some of the problems with academia. There are comments to this video in which they talk about leaving academia for other careers, such as medical, software, or industry. Unfortunately, nothing unique about this video.
@@paintspot1509 Unfortunately, many in academia share the sentiment of Sabine. Just read the comments by fellow scientists.
Thank you for all of your efforts, you're a wonderful science communicator and I love your unique sense of humour, nothing else like it
Thank you. Your courageous testimony is respected and deeply appreciated.
Academic researcher (for now) here: This description is spot on. It's probably even worse in 'poorer' countries with more limited funding for research. Quite often we see that the people who get the very limited opportunities aren't those who followed the 'recipe' they've sold you from the start (work hard, go abroad, and so on...), but actually those who never moved from their original group and are basically a$$lickers to the people in charge. It's a broken system built by flawed, petty people.
All the best to you.
Thank you for posting this.
Many academics in poor countries have not that money pressure, and are more relaxed to do deep science. I'm one of them.
We suffer from our success in a way.
It's the complete opposite, we do what can we do with the budget we have, my experience was and is always researching the most interesting thing we like
Nearing the end of my academic career as a professor of astronomy for 20 years now- all I can say is you distilled academia right down to its raw core and you have amazing insight. Thank you for being bold. Thank you for sharing. I think that some of us were afraid to look behind the curtain, even though we knew what we would find there. I am definitely sharing this with some young academic researchers I know. Perhaps your message will help others see clearly earlier in their lives.
look behind the curtain? It's so obvious, it can't be more. You don't have to look behind a curtain, everything happens openly and without being afraid to show it.
@@ChrisChurchill-ln2ff I'm afraid that’s not Sabine. Just a random interjecting. For the record, I am also not Sabine.
It is exactly my experience and I think young researchers should be told in no uncertain terms just how toxic academia is. I spent years feeling like a failure because I didn't get tenure and it's only the advent of online fora like this that has helped me see that academia sucks, not me.
@@Geschichtelehrer Although it's not necessarily obvious for those at the earlier career stages..
Female biologist over 40 from Germany here.
That's exactly how I see it. Not only from my own experience, but also from that of many acquaintances.
At the beginning, you're quite happy that you can do what you like without being bothered. By the time you write your thesis at the latest, you realize the difficulties of the system that you describe. I was also irritated by the inaccuracy with which results are produced, at least in biology. As soon as you are in the system, you also see the incompetence (technical, organizational, human) of other researchers. I often had the impression that some were simply in the right place at the right time and were just willing to play along with this application circus.
As a woman, it's particularly difficult if you want to start a family. It's hardly possible without help, including financial help, from grandparents. I know some who have made it at least some way, but only with the help of their parents.
Yes, the system is weak. I've seen many excellent young researchers leave because they didn't want to play this game.
Nevertheless, I have also met nice, very competent colleagues who have made it - but very few.
"I was also irritated by the inaccuracy with which results are produced" THIS, ohhh you can't image how this makes me angry.
In the beginning, we were all ignorant and delusional. Then the realities of this world became apparent. Why be bitter about it?
You're supposed to be able to have a husband bring you, the mother the resources to give birth and raise your child. We have always been able to do this until the petrol dollar was invented and bankers realized they would need more workers or the system would crash too soon.
One parent gets the resources and contributes to society. The other parent raises the child and contributes to your family. Corporations have demanded that both parents be tapped for work and our children have suffered dearly for it. In Ireland it's actually in their constitution that should this ever happen they have a right to dissolve the gov and start over(should a mother ever be forced to work in order to raise her child as this is the entire point of society, we know we can make a society where only one parent needs to work and so any society where 2 must is a failure and they KNEW THIS). I don't think they enforce it or they just give welfare checks to them.
Regardless, only serfs and indentured servants were made to have mothers work. We have been enslaved and told it was empowering.
At least you are an independent, strong empowered wahman❤
There was a recent Thunderf00t video on this whole topic, about his experience as a PhD in Chemistry where his supervisor was a later Nobel Prize winner Sir J. Fraser Stoddart and about how he quickly realised the guy was a snakeoil salesman producing expensive pH indicators with little future. And when he pointed this out the guy vindictively refused to supervise him anymore. And how he does the same pitch every year with molecular machines and has been involved with a bunch of shady scam beauty product companies. Didn't stop the Noble Prize commission awarding him anyway.
I'm a gardener with a lay interest in physics. Gardening is no bullshit in an otherwise cynical world. It makes for good health both physical and mental. I already had enough bullshit as an undergrad. The boffins careened off into ideological space and lost touch with the natural world, and all the brain-work made me depressed, so I started digging holes, moving rocks and planting shrubs, and this is a much happier place. I'm glad you escaped that miserable, dishonest path and took the path of truth. It is an inspiring story, and I'm a big fan.
Most inspiring comments section here, too.
Gardening is dramatically helped by cow manure and bullshit is not shunned either. (The REAL bullshit, not the bullshit bullshit!)
;-)
Hear , hear !
Good for you lloydy! I wish you great success
I’m actually thinking of going this route! It’s nice to hear someone who’s done so!
The fact is, the amount of screentime required in any academic pursuit is unhealthy unless it is rigorously managed.
Please never change. I am just a normal person who missed the chance for a higher education but am very interested in a variety of of things. I do not really watch main stream TV after discovering youtube and all the fantastic contributors on this medium. You are one of my top 10 subscribed channels, very entertaining and I love your content and manage to learn a little something with every one of your videos. 🙂
Regular television programming often feels like mental poison when you have the option of watching people create things they're passionate about. I can't even stand listening to TV anymore.
Well said! Normal TV is inane and not all of us have had the opportunity to attend higher education, but we can educate ourselves and this is a great way to do it 💚
@@vyvianalcott1681 , ditto. Even the old style TV science content like BBC Horizon is incredibly low-brow compared to today's youtube content from people like Sabine. I feel like it's a golden age for lay science lovers. I threw out the TV five years ago and installed a 65-inch monitor just so I wouldn't have a TV tuner.
Thank you Brent. I was going to write a comment but you stated exactly what I was going to say. Thank you @SabineHossenfelder. Never change.
Nah she should change. She complains but then openly attacks anyone who actually wants to change anything. I'm not sure how you can watch this video and not come away from this with the takeaway that the money-making incentive is harming the sciences, but not only does she openly endorse the glory of the money-making incentive, every time the topic comes up she insults anyone who disagrees with it saying they fail to understand basic economics and it's the greatest thing ever. I have trouble feeling sympathetic with her when she is openly hostile to anyone who wants to actually reduce the money-making incentive in society and have institutions that are devoted to benefiting humankind first and foremost.
I've watched a number of your video's and enjoyed them immensely but this is the one that made me subscribe. Your honesty and frankness is refreshing. Keep it up!
I am very glad you posted the video. You are without a doubt one of the top science communicators in the world. Their loss is our gain. Please keep up the great work.
This is the conversation I've been waiting for the world to have. Thank you.
Dropped out of my PhD six years ago. Still struggling with the alcohol and tobacco addiction I took from those three miserable years. Constantly made to feel worthless and not doing enough. My career in industry has been amazing and constantly rewarding.
Academia needs to change.
There are so many people stuck in long, unhappy marriages because the hard part is not the divorce itself but to admit that they made the wrong choice/wasted their time. You were strong, you realized it was not right and left. You can be proud. Time flies and soon these years will be distant memories, substituted by new, happier ones. Fight for yourself you deserve it and you are worth it. It's the opposite: this bullshit is not worth having you. And btw I don't know what a PhD tells you about a person but I don't think it's intelligence tbh. Maybe it's resilience or endurance... I think in this academia world not playing their game is (street) smarter..
The best way is to list the problems in indurstry.
My son is gifted, he excelled in high school we delivered to the prestigious Uni he enrolled in, a young, fit and able young man with extraordinary intellect. The Uni almost destroyed him.
Dropped out of biochem to do industrial radiography. No regrets financially- but wow, I loved biochem so much. Just the thought of 8-10 years of extremely hard schooling with tons of debt, only to hold a proverbial beggars cup to fund my research and the institution, and also with very little take home pay, was more than I could bear. I also felt like me and my colleagues were not really on a team, everyone wants to one up each other, everyone is competing for the same money. As I became adjusted to what academia really was all about, I was no longer happy with my career direction. Biochem is now only a hobby, building up a nice home lab. 1000% academia needs to change. I was so passionate but simply could not continue, I cried all the way back from the dean’s office and the whole ride home. Never was more lost in my life until that point. That was what I always loved.
Dropped out a year in. It's one of the best decisions I ever made. I moved in to language assessing and teaching for the University instead.
Academia is a game, but it's a game covered with a safe friendly progressive face. Universities in my country only care about bringing in international students, so I pivoted.
I gave up on a dream, but the dream was an illusion anyway.
Lovely. Your commitment to high ethics is music to my ears. Thank you. I am deeply moved by your testimony. You're not just committed to Goodness, you have gigantic balls.
You did the right thing by creating and posting this video, Sabine. More people need to know about the real state of things in academia. I myself earned a PhD in polymer chemistry and then spent 5 years as a postdoc in physical chemistry in Germany. I fully confirm that what you described is true. What really bothers me is the lack of ways for students to fight back against abusive professors. The university administration cares mostly about money. So, if a particular professor brings in a lot of grants, nobody cares how he or she treats their group. Labor laws practically don't exist or don't apply in academia. I tried to make a difference by raising these issues with my university's administration, only to be met with indifference and inaction. As long as the money comes in, there is no problem from their perspective. I realized that the only option left for me was to leave. If I couldn't change the system, I would just leave it, never come back, and notify others about the real state of things there. I started applying for real jobs and successfully got one in the semiconductor industry, where I can apply my knowledge for the real benefit of society.
I realized all this in my 4th semester of physics back in 1988 and switched to political philosophy and making clarinets. Mrs Hossenfelder deserves the Nobel Prize for this video alone! ❤
My experience parallels yours. I was pressured into overworking by an abusive professor who had 50 PhD students writing papers for him and he brought in a lot of grant funding for the university. He bullied me for showing insufficient loyalty to the fiefdom he had built within the faculty -- that I dared to collaborate with other researchers outside of his control. So I quit and now work as a software engineer.
Welcome to the real world. Do you realize your story is common in practically every aspect of human endeavor? Why do scientists believe that the laws of Physics will not apply to them?
I am a medical doctor in India and Indian academia is filled to the brim with abusive frauds masquerading as "Professors"
Great post. I strongly relate and am so impressed that you raised these issues with administration. Much of the academic world is toxic and abusive in ways that would shock those outside of it. Leaving was my only option, and I understand why you did too.
Thank you for your integrity and for sharing...
Hi Sabine. My name is Mihai, i am an archaeologist with close to two decades in the industry. Tonight, I had a few pints with a friend of mine and we where talking about the same sh1tshow in our industry, academic and commercial. Your channel is a breath of fresh air and a good place to learn. Thank you for your time and effort and for this video, particularly.
what area of archaeology?
... that's why I am unemployed and enjoy my life and time by learning what I want, doing recreational sports, taking strolls in the park, watching documentaries and gaming. Everything government tries to get me into work will only lead to the government paying three times more for me than it does now.
I am definitely not prostituting myself in fake,-science and fake-research.
To you I wish the best - and to enjoy yourself as much or even more as I do in my position. I did not choose it but rather got shifted into it...but AI adapted and now like it very much... especially because now I know what I avoided without even knowing it back then.
@@glen.simpsonseveral areas of interest, but I work mainly in commercial archaeology and planning.
@@thyristothere's a bit of a difference between me, who works for a living and pays taxes and, if you live off of government assistance, meant to be a support for people who NEED OT FOR WHATEVER REASON, you... If you live of of your personal savings, I can't tell you how to live your life and spend your money. If you are on the public support, get off your effing ass and get a job, you prick.