Helium scape valves are necessary for saturation desk divers to prevent watch damage due to high air conditioning exposure under extreme office circumstances
Miguel Dorta and they look cool...! And don’t forget about the dramatic pressure changes when entering or leaving an office building! I may get the bends...But my watch won’t!
The problem is that mechanical watches are unnecessary as a whole. So arguing that a HE valve is unnecessary is like saying "duh I have time on my phone". It's about what a watch can do and how it makes you feel, not about what you need.
I have to say I find a mechanical dive watch way more practical than any of my quartz watches. My SKX after regulation has been chugging along accurately for 6 years, I don't have to worry about it running out of batteries. I don't have to worry the battery acid will destroy the watches I don't use and forget about. I also hate the annoying ticking of quartz watches. It's also more reliable and robust in an apocalypse.
@@TankEsq I'm sorry but that's just not true. A mechanical watch will never be more accurate or reliable than a quartz watch. As for your personal preference that's totally understandable of course.
@@lucioledizerot196 I'm sorry but it is true. I don't need a watch to be hyper-accurate. +/- 5 seconds a day is plenty good enough. ISO certification makes it shock resistant, water resistant, everything I need. With a big watch collection I can't be bothered to constantly be changing batteries.
My $.02 on water resistance. Had an IWC chronograph, mecha quartz I wore on two tours in Iraq. I was doing a lot of helo insertions and it was a very dirty, dusty place. Sent the watch to IWC for service and they were apoplectic about how I'd treated the watch. It has a screw down crown and two pushers. I believe the water resistance is 50m. The watch never went near water, but was in an environment where dust and dirt were able to intrude into the case. This tells me the water resistance rating is not solely useful for water, but also for dirt and dust. To be safe, and probably an over reaction, I now try to get as much water resistance as I can get. That's why I like Sinn as most of their watches, even the aviator watches, are 200m.
I am going to break the mold a little bit in 1978 as a teenager in South Florida i got my first Scuba Certification and i needed a Dive watch as part of my equipment i called my God Mother who was working at no other thanks Seiko Corporate as a Human Resources person and got a pretty decent discount on all their watches so i asked how much she could get me the Seiko dive watch for she called me back a couple of days later and told me that the best deal she could get was a Pulsar divers watch that was essentially a rebranded Seiko in one of the Companies other divisions i did order that watch and it has performed flawlessly on over 250 logged Scuba Dives the original battery even lasted 14 years in that watch oddly enough the replacement only lasted 1 year and my biggest beef about the watch has been the Black Rubber watch Band that is essentially a Seiko Branded band and is overly priced and hard to locate at nearly 40.00 per band and they just dont last very long IMO yet as a Watch i have no complaints as my “Old Faithful” has kept me safe on al my dives over the years and although i have other watches and some moe Dress quality i prefer to wear my Dive watch even when wearing a tuxedo for a formal affair
Craig Monteforte you’re not going get the “thumbs up” for a Pulsar review with a quartz movement, no matter how well it performs. The watch community is much like the art community. They have their gatekeepers who protect their offspring from any perceived attack. It’s the hype machine.
I consider the dive watch as a rugged ,water resistant , outdoor timer watch. The idea that it can also be used for diving just adds to the mystique and appeal.
You reasoned backwards. It’s all fantasy. Hence, why you missed the reason for the helium escape valve. It’s a conversational piece. You get to talk about ocean depths, rotating bezels, and yes, helium escape valves. That’s what watch collecting is all about.
This was the only point that I found curious. I pay extra (compared to average mark up for goods/services) for nearly every watch I own for one reason or another. Hard to argue cost when you consider what it is we are doing here. Some have historical significance others have features that I find interesting. Also, adding that the HE is another potential water intrusion point is no different than what you're arguing against never close to reality for 99.9% who wear dive watches in the rain. I know this video is meant to garner discussion so I'll throw one more, the HE doesn't just add cost because it's there, most companies sell different versions that are close enough that you could buy one without it, the only reason to buy up would be the extra depth rating and HE valve. Price point matters too, I have a 600 dollar diver with HE and a 3k diver without one. In a Rolex specific case they just need an extra feature or two to justify whatever price point they want to sell a watch for, they aren't at the drawing board going "oh crap if we add that it costs us 'x' and we'll have to charge 'y'. Lastly, as mentioned earlier other companies do the same just with history, tritium, gmt, bezels etc. They all have their place because of what a watch represents, something with a purpose, with purpose comes features. Those things are what attract me and to watches in the first place.
Your point about ISO ratings is right on and why one should always buy an ISO 6425 watch if they intend to dive. Each individual watch is tested not just a selection of that model. Great points and a great video. I've been diving for over 20 years and have gone through my fair share of watches. I've never used a helium escape valve, I've never needed any depth rating over 300 meters even tech diving, and I've never had a crown leak. To add one point though, MAINTENANCE is important if you're diving. My non-dive watches go 10+ years between services. I've had one watch since I was in high school (20+ years) and it's never been serviced, still ticking. A dive watch though, service every 3-5 years depending on use. Heavily used, more frequent service. If something is going to fail, it's going to fail under pressure and that's usually when you really need it to work.
Great video, thanks. I too believed that movement underwater increased the pressure. Could you please provide a link to the other video you mentioned that goes into more 'depth' on the mater.
Movement water pressure is a negligible thing. If you dive, every 15 feet can bother your ears if you don't blow. Can you imagine the amount of movement you'd have to do to feel painful ear pressure? What about 100 feet? Movement is a joke.
Great video quality when showing the watches up close!! Can really see and appreciate the details and craftsmanship of the watches. I really appreciate that aspect of it...thanks for that also.
But, but, but... the helium release valve looks so cool as I pre-rinse dirty dishes before loading them on the dishwasher. I need me some helium release valve dive watches.
You’re just an old helium release valve hater. BTW my automatic, glass-back beauty give me a sense of wonder every time I imagine the great Swiss craftsman putting in his 1000 hr work week.
I'm not a diver and I never intend to. However, I do own a casio duro and a vostok. The reason being that my daily beater is a cwc g10 that is only good for 50 metres and I've been told not to take it anywhere near water. I got the duro and vostok to wear on holiday when I go swimming. The duro is a great watch, and the vostok has a 24 hour dial just to freak people out, I prefer the quartz duro out of the two.
Why are dive watches so popular? 1. They're the choice of many movie characters like James Bond, who inspire a sense of action and danger. A dive watch seems more adventure inspiring than a dress watch. 2. They're overbuilt and overly capable to handle anything you could possibly throw at them. It's why people started buying SUVs. 3. Dive watches are incredibly legible and they have spinning bezels, which make for both great timing and fidgeting devices.
In the late ‘80s I used my Swatch as my time piece. I took that watch down to 130 feet all the time, it never failed me. I got my first citizen divers watch after my “bubble “ in the marines. Most divers I knew used Casio’s.
Thanks for another great and informative piece. I’ve been saying for a while now That I wish more reviewers would provide this type of info. It helps educate the consumer and make better choices when buying watches! I did some rough math, And it appears that it’s more like 99.99996% Of the population would never have a need for a helium escape valve. I might need to add another nine actually, But everyone gets the point right?!
I agree that wearing a dive watch for all occasions is the reason I like mine. I have a Seagull Ocean Star which suits my life most of the time. I use my Seagull 1963 column wheel chronograph to time my film development and darkroom printing as it has no lume to fog the film or paper, and of course is invaluable for accurate timing.
I did my scuba certification wearing a $47 Timex Expedition chronograph rated to 100m, and it had no issue with me swimming around at the bottom of a 90ft lake, and no issue when I did hours of hookah diving at 8-20ft for work. So I get confused when a 200m dive-style watch says it can't handle anything more than surface swimming.
For me having a fascination of dive watches goes back to me and the family sitting down to watch The old James Bonds!!! Roger Mores Rolex in Live and Let Die !!!!! The bezel turned into a circular saw!!!
same with me. I believe Omega Seasmaster in Goldeneye was the watch for me that started it all. I didn't know it was a dive watch, but just a cool looking watch.
About water resistance: 1. Realistically, it’s about the warranty. Watchmakers will not repair / replace a 3ATM WR watch with significant water damage done while swimming. That said, people have taken Casio F91W watches into the pool and the ocean without incident despite its 3ATM rating. 2. The ISO 6425 rating lists the minimum WR rating for a dive watch as 10ATM, or 100m WR. This tends to surprise a lot of people who see dive watches usually rated at 20ATM. Also, the standard does *not* require a screw-down crown, only that the crown be resistant to shock or impact. 3. Watch enthusiasts have tended to make no distinction between 3ATM and 5ATM. This may be due to the broad interpretations of what, exactly, is meant by “casual swimming” which is what 5ATM is intended for while 3ATM is not. A professional water sports athlete, for example, may consider 5ATM is inadequate for her purposes while the casual tourist doing the backstroke in hotel pool may think 5ATM is just fine.
I'm soo happy Guy that you got the HEV story right. Even a lot of professional watch folks don't understand what the feature is used for. (and a lot of casual scuba divers misunderstand it as well, thinking it somehow would be useful in technical mixed-gas diving)
All of my watches are divers. Used to own a Daytona and sold it because it just was not “me.” I Like divers because they are durable, casual, easy to read and functional. Of course the helium escape valve is not necessary. I agree with others, the watch itself is unnecessary since I bet you that 99.999999% of those who own a watch with HEV do not need a watch at all. Mechanical watches to me are like works of art. The paintings in my house are completely unnecessary, but I own them because of how they make me feel. What percentage of exotic car owners will ever reach the limits of their cars? They own them because of what they are capable of doing not because they need the performance. Lastly, there is a direct correlation between water resistance rating and build “beefiness.” A watch capable of surviving in 5000 feet of water must be built more sturdily than one rated to 50.
Interesting.Water resistance is pressure rated. Throw your wrist into a pool and the psi exerted can easily equal the natural depth pressure at say 100 ms.Also condensation occurs within any watch as long as it contains air.Its all relevant. Cheers.
@@JustBlueFish Its basic hydraulic theory. A seal is only as good in tolerance as the pressure applied to it at any moment. Water doesn't compress so even a tangible force against it creates huge back pressure relatively. Hydraulic rams suffer similar load failure if sudden out of tolerance forces are applied.The seals being the weakest link.
Interesting and revealing video! Can anybody explain the benefit of that Omega Seamaster protuding kind of Helium escape valve in comparison with that flat or even valves that the Sea Dweller and many other dive watches have?
Omega's HEV simply has a crown you can screw down to seal it off. The actual HEV is basically the same tech as what you see in a Rolex and is located behind the crown you see. The idea is that you seal off the HEV most of the time then unscrew the crown as you raise from depth thus exposing the valve to let it do it's thing. Extra safety measure to prevent water ingress.
@@petes5152 Thanks for explaining. I think even if Omega insists on applying an HEV, a lot of watch collectors would be happy if they would release future versions without that crown, given how few owners of a Seamaster really use it for diving.
I don't care about the HE valve, I used to care, now I think is part of the style of the watch. I don't mind seeing it. I have a 2018 SMP 300, I freaking love this watch.
I love dive watches and used to do a lot of diving too. That aside, I think the design language is something of a classic. There is a lot of iconography attached to dive watches. Men in particular like to buy in to that. It's a bit like Marlboro cigarettes; macho cowboys did a lot for the brand; with a lot of smokers buying in to the strong imagery around that. So many people that own dive watches will never even get them wet, but they like the associated imagery and perceived sense of adventure.
Desmond O'Reilly I recreational dive a couple of times a year. I purposely take different dive watch every time Because it feels like I’ve put my watches ‘Through the paces’...Use them ‘how they were intended to be used’...I know, I know, I really haven’t at my recreational 80’ to 90’...But it still feels good! 😂
Thanks for the little bit of education my friend, I think it’s good to learn something new each day and it’s a bonus if it’s something you are really interested in. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the info, I think the reason dive watches are popular is because of the cool factor with a high majority of people who wear them don't even dive anything more than a desk.
I don’t quite agree with u on the HEV BUT I 100% agree with you on water resistance and how crazy people get saying “omg I wouldn’t swim with it unless it 200m” and the whole splash and not showering with it is so stupid of an argument that people make. I really liked the video 👍🏽
Great video....I agree 100% with your comments regarding the He valve. I wish Omega wouldn’t have included one in the PO and Seamaster Pro 300’s. But I think they think they need it to stay competitive with the Submariner which of course doesn’t have one, but is so much more popular.
Tks n congrats, this summary was long, long overdue. My Submariner fm 1972 is still alive. Bought it as n other watch cud be used everywhere, safe. As an long distance swimmer I needed to wear a watch in the pool, to observe the time under water, how long I was training. It cost Deutschmarks 1K in 1972, one month salary. Consequently 2020 a price of 10K is a months salary as well. This watch is still on my wrist at least very 2nd day, swim, motorcycle, one names it... 4 services ea 10 yrs, the 1972 movement beats at 21.600 with abt + 3 to +6s/d, 50yrs old...Which watch can do this? Cheers, Achim fm Singapore+
I prefer ISO divers with my EDC because of the beating they can take. No HEV, thank you. All your points are totally valid. Thanks again for the thoughtful content, Guy!
I agree with you on nearly all fronts ,the average dive watch collectors watch isn't going to much in the line of water let alone diving. i have 30m rated mechanical with no screw down crown i regularly swim ,sauna,steam & jacuzzi in with no issues whatsoever plus is more accurate than a couple of my digitals, i think manufacturers generally impose the numbers to be over cautious so there's no comeback if it dies from a dunk.
One of the things I think watch connoisseurs know and appreciate is that watches were historically meant to be tools. So some practical use is expected. For most of us, dive watches have all the features we might ever need: you can take a shower with it, ot work in the yard with water and dust, they're sweat resistant and you can check the time in the dark. Other complications like GMT or perpetual calendars are generally less useful, because not all of us are global travelers or are willing to spend 15 minutes to set the date if the mechanical watch runs out of power.
Great vid.. Watches that don't have a screw down crown and have some sort of gasket when wound are wearing down the gasket as they are being wound. If that makes any sense....
I'm glad you've mentioned Marck's video, "dinamic" pressure doesn't bring that much to the wr. I don't know if the serious watch producers really test all those 30 m wr watches, they just rely on "splash resistance" theory. Does warranty cover thin when you actualy bring that watch to let's say 10m under water and it fails??
Didnt know that about not all watches getting tested at the factory for water resistance. My current collection has 16 watches and 13 of them are dive watches. That screw down crown is basically the biggest selling point for me
First when I got my Omega Seamaster 300SMP I looked up everything about the HEV. I even watched saturation diving video. Talk about scary stuff those divers are under water Astronauts. So I hear what you said. I still love my watch had it. I don't care that I will never use it and trust me mine is screwed down tight and isn't going anywhere. I just like the concept and it's history and the fun I have and will have explaining what it is and does to the handful of people that might ask about it. As to water resistance thanks I studied it to and am still just as confused as you. Screw down crowns I have four and they are a pain in the butt when you have to wind the watch but not bad if the watch is automatic and all daily wearer. Great vid.
Funny thing about helium escape valves is that there are plenty of watches that just don't need them. This includes all Seikos with water resistance of 300 m or more. They are built to be robust enough not to need a helium escape valve, which pretty cool in any case. Additionally, the part about the screwdown crowns perpetrates another misconception. Water can enter a watch if the gasket sealing the watch rotates, screwdown crown prevents underwater rotation. It is a safety mechanism eliminating a particular failure mode.
Agree HEV is but a novelty. I don't even dive with a watch any more, nor do I know any other divers who do. Timekeeping is taken care of by our dive computers. And while there's something to be said about having a backup timekeeping device, a second computer makes much more sense as a redundant backup.
I 100% agree with you on the HE valve being completely unnecessary, at least for me but on the other hand I still don't mind it on my 2500 Planet Ocean as it adds a character of its own, I will say I'm not a fan of the bigger conical shaped one on the newer 300 professional though, if it's gonna be there I do prefer the smaller less petrusive one like on my model.
🤔 Not a divers watch but i have a Citizen titanium chronograph that only has waterresitant on it's back no mention of how much it has four pushers. Still i have used it on my vacations swimming and snorkeling in the sea. It's 27 years old and never had any problems with it...
That's what i'm saying all the time - just because a watch has 200 or 300 meters of water resistance on it doesn't mean it's a real divers watch. I'm sure it will handle swimming or even basic diving, but i'd feel much safer with my Seiko Samurai STO while swimming than any of the Chinese brands that offer sapphire crystals and ceramic bezels with questionable 300 meters of water resist. The only non ISO dive watch that I trust is my Vostok Amphibia. I also agree that the helium valve is totally useless and while some might argue that mechanical watches are useless as well because quartz watches outperform them in every aspect possible, at least you can use your mechanical watch while the valve will never be used and i'm sure even a moon phase is more useful than the helium valve. Some might not agree but that's ok.
You wrote a lot of bull shit ... The Citizen promaster has a 200m recommended from the producer but yet the Italien navy tested it for 500 metes and the watch had no issues and so on !!!
@@djzrobzombie2813 So what? The Vostok Amphibia which has 200m of water resistance and was tested at around 800m and nothing happened. Just because some watches can push far beyond their recommended water resistance it doesn't mean that all of them can. Every watch company makes their tests and puts those things the way they like but like I said just because some can do it it doesn't mean that every single watch from every other brand can. There are exceptions for almost everything in this world you know. I'm 100% sure that the watches who have failed such tests are far more but you won't hear that much about them unlike those who have succeeded. I've heard even stories about professional and expensive diver watches that got water inside of them from swimming no diving. so there's no 100% guarantee.
Dive watches are the pickup trucks of the watch world, masculine, tough and cool, most people buying a truck don’t really need them, will never use them close to their capabilities, but they are tough, big and you can dress them up as nice as any luxury car, same as a diver, big tough and you can dress them up if you buy the right one, (Seamasters, Subs)
Hahaha. How true. I am a diver and I get it. Funny thing, however. Saturation divers - like any serious diver - will use watch-like computers, yes. That said, many saturation divers still enjoy wearing a capable watch while working at great depths just to keep a sense of time and connection to the surface. The question should there be valves on retail watch production is, “depends.” Maybe adding the valve should be optional. That said, 007 Rolex or Seawolf Blancpain appeal for a few minutes in the pool or shower is pretend play and the closest anyone will ever get to being an elegant secret agent. Let’s give all but the most arrogant customers permission to feel like, Bond, James Bond :)
If the discussion of this video is of superfluous watch features, then the scope of this video is far too small. The list of “useless” features for most users is myriad. Cough - the Rolex cyclops for ANYBODY with a driver’s license (i.e. corrected vision). And I’ve got multiple pre-SKX watches from Seiko that passed the 150m pressure test (75% of their rating) 25 years later with original seals. The Twinlock and Triplock mechanisms are indeed superfluous as well. Lastly, a screw down crown permits the precise application of torque-limited pressure onto a seal that can’t be applied with precision unless a precise geometric limiting function exists to prevent excess deformation of the seal (reducing WR and decreasing seal life). That’s a huge benefit. I’ll add that I have significantly greater confidence in Omega/Rolex/Tudor’s ability to effectively seal an extra aperture in a case over the seal/crystal/caseback geometry or thread precision of most other watch brands .... no matter how many holes in their case they do or do not have.
Totally agree with u. But IMO u missed one, difference between water resistant and waterproof. Isnt the deep sea-sea dweller & omega(not in production though) the only companies that make a waterproof watch? Awesome video!
There has only been one watch made that you could call water proof and thats the one off Rolex DeepSea Special back in 1960. Thats because its not possibe to go deeper on Earth . It went to the deepest part of the ocean which is 39,000ft strapped to the outside of a submarine. The current version is rated to 12,800ft
"Waterproof" was used decades ago and they dropped it a long time ago because no watch is "waterproof", there's always a risk of failure. "Waterproof" would mean that never ever could water penetrate the case, which obviously isn't the case (pardon the pun). So the only thing you'd get nowadays is a "water resistant" mark.
@@JustBlueFish I believe waterproof on watches was changed to water resist due to changes to the Truth In Advertising laws in the US in the late 1960s. Companies were given a period of time to comply & Seiko, for example, changed it's dive watches to water resist in 1970/71.
I agree with the notion that no watch is waterproof however the deep sea special Rolex makes me doubt that statement. It is water resistant to the highest pressure that exists on this planet. There are higher pressures on other planets but they dont contain water so by that definition it is water proof!
I'm happy that so many viewers admit that mechanical watches are unnecessary and it's all fantasy. Nice to see that some people can admit the truth. What drives me crazy are dudes who say they need a "tool" to tell the time and that tool cost $8000.
Thanks for the information! I wish we had a better standard for water resistance ratings...But we don’t. As an avid watch collector it drives me crazy, and I also think many manufactures play-off of the misconceptions of consumers. I decided years ago I was not going to buy a watch, that didn’t have at least a 50 meter water resistance rating. The only exceptions that I’ve made to that are a couple of ‘Chinese specials’ That otherwise have great specs and are dress watches. Field watches I want 100 m Water resistance, And let me explain why. Three or four years ago now I wore my Hamilton Field watch while white water rafting. 50 m of water resistance was the rating. It was submerged in no more than 5 feet of water and then only for less than a minute (max). It was full of water and ruined by the end of the day. Sport watches and field watches in my collection Have 100 m Because there’s too many choices out there that have it, so why not! I like a screwdown crown on any sport or field watch as well… That way you can’t simply knock it or accidentally leave the crown pulled out(In which case the water resistance rating is zero). I go diving on occasion(twice last year). I’ve never been below 140 feet and usually less than80-90. Maybe it’s being overly cautious but I don’t even wear my 200 meter watches that aren’t ISO certified when I do that. Why would I when I have several ISO certified watches?! I realise that that’s being overly cautious, But at least That way I am I’ll be guaranteed never to ruin one of my watches watch again!
Maybe someone can help me. I'm having trouble finding watches with certain complications that I know for a fact exist. - a high intensity laser - a circular saw - a grappling hook - an explosive timer I know they exist because I have seen videos of them, but none of the manufacturers I've researched seem to carry them.
I think watch enthusiast like drive watches more, as watch cases are metal, and most dive watches come with Bracelets that match the watch case, Bracelets are just more attractive to the many, all those Rolex watches come with Metal Bracelets, who has a Cellini and Bracelets last longer than straps.
You're sure right about the helium valve. I love the wart on my Seamaster but I realize it's a poser. Not one person has ever piped in on a forum saying they're a saturation diver who used a Seamaster. Not even a liar! I wonder if you open it underwater? If so what if the external pressure is higher and water rushes in? How does our diver know if the watch is filled with helium yet, or to full pressure? What if she works outside the environment and has to ascend 100 ft? Should she open the valve? You are correct, it is just one more thing to make sure is tight before submerging the watch, one more hole in a water resistant container.
I don’t think anyone minds the HEV on a Rolex deep sea - it’s a cool functional element (even if its as useless for most people as a moon phase or a tourbillion). Omega have made their lower tech version part of the Seamaster look, I’m ok with that, gives James Bond another button. In practice you don’t really notice it if own the watch.
Thanks Guy for all of your useful content, even if it about useless things. lol. I really don't like dive watches because they are typically to large and thick for me. I am into the field/military watch genre. Would like to see something from that genre in an upcoming segment. Thanks again, Brian.
Interesting comments regarding the helium escape valve. There's a lot of truth to what Guy says. However I have to agree with those who have pointed out that one could very easily extrapolate this kind of thinking to call into question the point of even owning a mechanical watch at all. Sure it's true that 99.999% of owners are never going to _need_ a helium escape valve. Hell, I can imagine that 99% of them are never even going to take the watch anywhere near the sea, much less go in a compression chamber, or whatever. But it is just the fundamental characteristic of a watch like a Sea-Dweller (for example) that it has the specification of a professional saturation diver's tool watch. You don't have to _need_ any of the features. It is about the watch's intrinsic character. It is about what the watch IS. Taking away the HE-valve from that Sea-Dweller would therefore be limiting and detracting from the watch. It would be making it that little bit less interesting and unusual. Moreover, if you are going to spec a Sea-Dweller based on what is realistically _needed_ by the vast majority of buyers, where exactly do you stop? Does it _need_ to be pressure resistant to 1220m? or would 200m? be more than enough? Okay, but then how is it in any meaningful sense still a "Sea-Dweller"...?
Here’s the thing, dive watches aren’t used for diving hence it doesn’t matter what features they have or don’t have. If you go diving get a $200 dive computer.
I suspect the whole nonsense surrounding water resistance ratings you describe resulted from manufacturers over hyping the capabilities of their products, and then being called in on it, perhaps through claims for financial reimbursement or repair under warranty, and subsequently going through a “how can we wriggle out of this one” process. In particular I reckon it may have been one of the main players In the budget to mid range segment, who have a very large share of the market (I’m not going to say who because I don’t want to get sued, but I think you can guess . . .). This particular company suddenly came up with the whole “dynamic pressure” excuse as to why, for example, a 30M watch is only splash proof, and a 100M watch can’t be taken down to 100 meters!! That’s marketing I guess, & the result of manufacturers talking-up their products for competitive advantage 😁! As to the whole HeV issue, I couldn’t agree more with you. I’ve read that modern Viton gaskets render them obsolete even for saturation divers in any case. I love your videos btw, always informative, & very well prepared! Thanks.
About the Helium valve: Like Spock said, “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” If this thing is something almost no one uses (99.9%) just make a few special editions with this valve for the very few saturation divers. Even though I love the Omega 300M I wont touch one with that valve sticking out. A know a lot of people who told me the same thing.
Good vid, but these points would have meant more 20+ years ago when watches were still tools. Now watches are mens fashion accessories, and Omega's HEV is a marketing gimmick, screw down crowns just sound safer, and most people don't take a luxury watch in the water. Many just like what looks good, and based on the crazy Rolex market, what holds value.
Well said! It’s about time that these various myths are the debunked. HEVs are functionally a total waste, but like a lot of these things, if someone likes them on their wrist, no big deal. I’ve been saying the same things about water resistance for years, having been an engineer and having designed and worked with thousands of different pumping and piping systems involving sealing off instruments and such. This whole “dynamic loads“ argument is total BS. Such a thing doesn’t exist except at very high velocities. I think the water resistance rating is far more dependent on the make of the watch. I would certainly trust the rating of any decent quality watch, and not believe any WR rating from the lakes of MVMT or DW. Thanks for clearing this up. I’m sure I will refer to this video Many times in the future when I run into people online making these ridiculous claims.
Rule of thumb for WR ratings. As with all dive equipment, you want your equipment rated for twice the working pressure. In other words, if your max depth for a dive is 150 feet, 100 meters will be more than adequate. Most recreational dives don't go beyond 80 feet and average 40 to 60. Sunlight disappears at around 90 to 100 feet. So, a 60 foot dive (18.29 meters) doesn't need a watch with a WR rating of more than 40 meters. And, if new, a watch with a 30 m WR rating will do just fine. Science, it's a wonderful thing. One last point, out of the 300 or so commercially rated divers in the USA, less than half are gainfully employed. The advantage of a mechanical watch at extreme depths is that there is no battery to compress and short out. Dusty environments are a completely different matter.
The HEV. A small valve designed to make increased sales from the gullible. I have a relative who is a saturation diver from the late eighties till now - he and his colleagues wouldn't in their wildest dreams spend the sort of money on a Rolex or Omega to go saturation diving with, way to expensive for a tool, and as for using a mechanical watch - no way hose.
The protruding helium escape valve is an eye sore imho. Divers are not as appealing due to their thickness. Not an everyday watch like an Explorer 1 style.
It is not about need. I used to own an SRT Challenger that would do 176 MPH. I had no plans to drive around at 176 MPH. The feeling just comes from knowing that it CAN. The same principle applies for most people and their big daddy dive watches. Hell, I'll go one further. I do not dive at all...I do not so much as snorkel. But I own a dive watch with a helium escape valve and... ...I almost never wear it because it is too damned big! Still, I like it sitting on my winder...just like I used to like knowing my Challenger COULD almost keep up on a NASCAR track. It's not supposed to make sense. If it were about making sense, we'd all buy hundred dollar, multi function, digital G-shocks and call it a day.
Helium scape valves are necessary for saturation desk divers to prevent watch damage due to high air conditioning exposure under extreme office circumstances
I stand corrected.
Miguel Dorta Also, the dangers of beer spills at the pub after work.
@@iansmith3593 Don't forget that alcohol, i.e. vodka is a solvent that could attack a lesser watch. If I fall into my vodka, I need 200 M...
Miguel Dorta and they look cool...! And don’t forget about the dramatic pressure changes when entering or leaving an office building! I may get the bends...But my watch won’t!
JustBlueFish Watch Reviews At least you can admit when you’re wrong😂
I use the rotating bezel to time how long I've been in a dive bar.
LMAO! 😂😂😂
The problem is that mechanical watches are unnecessary as a whole. So arguing that a HE valve is unnecessary is like saying "duh I have time on my phone". It's about what a watch can do and how it makes you feel, not about what you need.
There’s a difference between unnecessary and useless, at least to me.
@@JustBlueFish fair point. At the end of the day it's a very subjective matter. What might be useless objectively might be useful subjectively.
I have to say I find a mechanical dive watch way more practical than any of my quartz watches. My SKX after regulation has been chugging along accurately for 6 years, I don't have to worry about it running out of batteries. I don't have to worry the battery acid will destroy the watches I don't use and forget about. I also hate the annoying ticking of quartz watches. It's also more reliable and robust in an apocalypse.
@@TankEsq I'm sorry but that's just not true. A mechanical watch will never be more accurate or reliable than a quartz watch. As for your personal preference that's totally understandable of course.
@@lucioledizerot196 I'm sorry but it is true. I don't need a watch to be hyper-accurate. +/- 5 seconds a day is plenty good enough. ISO certification makes it shock resistant, water resistant, everything I need. With a big watch collection I can't be bothered to constantly be changing batteries.
My $.02 on water resistance. Had an IWC chronograph, mecha quartz I wore on two tours in Iraq. I was doing a lot of helo insertions and it was a very dirty, dusty place. Sent the watch to IWC for service and they were apoplectic about how I'd treated the watch. It has a screw down crown and two pushers. I believe the water resistance is 50m. The watch never went near water, but was in an environment where dust and dirt were able to intrude into the case. This tells me the water resistance rating is not solely useful for water, but also for dirt and dust. To be safe, and probably an over reaction, I now try to get as much water resistance as I can get. That's why I like Sinn as most of their watches, even the aviator watches, are 200m.
Those apoplectic bastards
Three words he never said while he was explaining why the dive watch has grown so popular: “Bond...James Bond.”
Wow you hit the nail on the head my friend.
I am going to break the mold a little bit in 1978 as a teenager in South Florida i got my first Scuba Certification and i needed a Dive watch as part of my equipment i called my God Mother who was working at no other thanks Seiko Corporate as a Human Resources person and got a pretty decent discount on all their watches so i asked how much she could get me the Seiko dive watch for she called me back a couple of days later and told me that the best deal she could get was a Pulsar divers watch that was essentially a rebranded Seiko in one of the Companies other divisions i did order that watch and it has performed flawlessly on over 250 logged Scuba Dives the original battery even lasted 14 years in that watch oddly enough the replacement only lasted 1 year and my biggest beef about the watch has been the Black Rubber watch Band that is essentially a Seiko Branded band and is overly priced and hard to locate at nearly 40.00 per band and they just dont last very long IMO yet as a Watch i have no complaints as my “Old Faithful” has kept me safe on al my dives over the years and although i have other watches and some moe Dress quality i prefer to wear my Dive watch even when wearing a tuxedo for a formal affair
Great story thanks!
Craig Monteforte you’re not going get the “thumbs up” for a Pulsar review with a quartz movement, no matter how well it performs. The watch community is much like the art community. They have their gatekeepers who protect their offspring from any perceived attack. It’s the hype machine.
I consider the dive watch as a rugged ,water resistant , outdoor timer watch. The
idea that it can also be used for diving just adds to the mystique and appeal.
hello sir, may i know what is the watch brand and model that appear on 0:32. is it smart watch? very interesting look.
It’s a ressence type 5.
@@JustBlueFish thank you sir for quick reply on my question.
You reasoned backwards. It’s all fantasy. Hence, why you missed the reason for the helium escape valve. It’s a conversational piece. You get to talk about ocean depths, rotating bezels, and yes, helium escape valves. That’s what watch collecting is all about.
I don’t want to pay extra and have the risk of another hole in the case letting in water, so I can live a fantasy. But that’s just me.
This was the only point that I found curious. I pay extra (compared to average mark up for goods/services) for nearly every watch I own for one reason or another. Hard to argue cost when you consider what it is we are doing here. Some have historical significance others have features that I find interesting. Also, adding that the HE is another potential water intrusion point is no different than what you're arguing against never close to reality for 99.9% who wear dive watches in the rain. I know this video is meant to garner discussion so I'll throw one more, the HE doesn't just add cost because it's there, most companies sell different versions that are close enough that you could buy one without it, the only reason to buy up would be the extra depth rating and HE valve. Price point matters too, I have a 600 dollar diver with HE and a 3k diver without one. In a Rolex specific case they just need an extra feature or two to justify whatever price point they want to sell a watch for, they aren't at the drawing board going "oh crap if we add that it costs us 'x' and we'll have to charge 'y'. Lastly, as mentioned earlier other companies do the same just with history, tritium, gmt, bezels etc. They all have their place because of what a watch represents, something with a purpose, with purpose comes features. Those things are what attract me and to watches in the first place.
Your point about ISO ratings is right on and why one should always buy an ISO 6425 watch if they intend to dive. Each individual watch is tested not just a selection of that model. Great points and a great video. I've been diving for over 20 years and have gone through my fair share of watches. I've never used a helium escape valve, I've never needed any depth rating over 300 meters even tech diving, and I've never had a crown leak. To add one point though, MAINTENANCE is important if you're diving. My non-dive watches go 10+ years between services. I've had one watch since I was in high school (20+ years) and it's never been serviced, still ticking. A dive watch though, service every 3-5 years depending on use. Heavily used, more frequent service. If something is going to fail, it's going to fail under pressure and that's usually when you really need it to work.
Pete S reason why I bought the Glashütte SeaQ Panorama Datum ✌🏻 ISO6425 ✌🏻
Thanks for watching buddy and for sharing your experience.
Great video, thanks. I too believed that movement underwater increased the pressure. Could you please provide a link to the other video you mentioned that goes into more 'depth' on the mater.
Movement water pressure is a negligible thing. If you dive, every 15 feet can bother your ears if you don't blow. Can you imagine the amount of movement you'd have to do to feel painful ear pressure? What about 100 feet? Movement is a joke.
It’s easy to find, just search his videos for the title I mentioned.
Next weeks topic,”Why corvettes should only have 4 cylinders”
Great video quality when showing the watches up close!! Can really see and appreciate the details and craftsmanship of the watches. I really appreciate that aspect of it...thanks for that also.
Thanks!
But, but, but... the helium release valve looks so cool as I pre-rinse dirty dishes before loading them on the dishwasher. I need me some helium release valve dive watches.
Great point!
Love your take on the awful looking valve.🤣
You’re just an old helium release valve hater. BTW my automatic, glass-back beauty give me a sense of wonder every time I imagine the great Swiss craftsman putting in his 1000 hr work week.
I agree.
I'm not a diver and I never intend to. However, I do own a casio duro and a vostok. The reason being that my daily beater is a cwc g10 that is only good for 50 metres and I've been told not to take it anywhere near water. I got the duro and vostok to wear on holiday when I go swimming. The duro is a great watch, and the vostok has a 24 hour dial just to freak people out, I prefer the quartz duro out of the two.
Why are dive watches so popular?
1. They're the choice of many movie characters like James Bond, who inspire a sense of action and danger. A dive watch seems more adventure inspiring than a dress watch.
2. They're overbuilt and overly capable to handle anything you could possibly throw at them. It's why people started buying SUVs.
3. Dive watches are incredibly legible and they have spinning bezels, which make for both great timing and fidgeting devices.
On point, good explanation.
@Le Jeune 6troëniste Crossover SUV = A Diver with 30m WR and leather strap.
Some interesting bits of information there, thanks for taking the time to make this one
Thanks buddy hope you enjoyed it.
@@JustBlueFish I did enjoy it and learnt something too
Thank you for getting the correct information about the HE Valve out there. This is a point that has been driving me nuts in discussions too.
Most of it’s just my opinion. But I stand by it.
Good presentation on the water resistance ratings. Many people are confused by that.
That even includes me!
In the late ‘80s I used my Swatch as my time piece. I took that watch down to 130 feet all the time, it never failed me. I got my first citizen divers watch after my “bubble “ in the marines. Most divers I knew used Casio’s.
Don’t you dare utter that name on this feed. 40 lashes!
Andrew Clarke Which one? “S “. “Ci “ or “Ca”?
Thanks for another great and informative piece. I’ve been saying for a while now That I wish more reviewers would provide this type of info. It helps educate the consumer and make better choices when buying watches! I did some rough math, And it appears that it’s more like 99.99996% Of the population would never have a need for a helium escape valve. I might need to add another nine actually, But everyone gets the point right?!
Please link the video about the WR test you`ve mentioned.
If you search Long Island watches videos for the title I mentioned it’s easy to find.
@@JustBlueFish ohh, well known yt watch chanel. Thanks.
I agree that wearing a dive watch for all occasions is the reason I like mine. I have a Seagull Ocean Star which suits my life most of the time.
I use my Seagull 1963 column wheel chronograph to time my film development and darkroom printing as it has no lume to fog the film or paper, and of course is invaluable for accurate timing.
Completely agree, water resistance on watches is ridiculous. I appreciate how you enhanced the videos!
I did my scuba certification wearing a $47 Timex Expedition chronograph rated to 100m, and it had no issue with me swimming around at the bottom of a 90ft lake, and no issue when I did hours of hookah diving at 8-20ft for work. So I get confused when a 200m dive-style watch says it can't handle anything more than surface swimming.
Ya I still don’t know.
For me having a fascination of dive watches goes back to me and the family sitting down to watch The old James Bonds!!! Roger Mores Rolex in Live and Let Die !!!!! The bezel turned into a circular saw!!!
same with me. I believe Omega Seasmaster in Goldeneye was the watch for me that started it all. I didn't know it was a dive watch, but just a cool looking watch.
Thanks for watching buddy.
About water resistance:
1. Realistically, it’s about the warranty. Watchmakers will not repair / replace a 3ATM WR watch with significant water damage done while swimming. That said, people have taken Casio F91W watches into the pool and the ocean without incident despite its 3ATM rating.
2. The ISO 6425 rating lists the minimum WR rating for a dive watch as 10ATM, or 100m WR. This tends to surprise a lot of people who see dive watches usually rated at 20ATM. Also, the standard does *not* require a screw-down crown, only that the crown be resistant to shock or impact.
3. Watch enthusiasts have tended to make no distinction between 3ATM and 5ATM. This may be due to the broad interpretations of what, exactly, is meant by “casual swimming” which is what 5ATM is intended for while 3ATM is not. A professional water sports athlete, for example, may consider 5ATM is inadequate for her purposes while the casual tourist doing the backstroke in hotel pool may think 5ATM is just fine.
Also if you flood a $15.00 watch, it's not a big deal. A $200 or $2000+ watch is a different story.
I'm soo happy Guy that you got the HEV story right. Even a lot of professional watch folks don't understand what the feature is used for.
(and a lot of casual scuba divers misunderstand it as well, thinking it somehow would be useful in technical mixed-gas diving)
Yeah based on some of the arguments I've seen people make in support of the feature, I think a lot of people misunderstand that feature.
All of my watches are divers. Used to own a Daytona and sold it because it just was not “me.” I Like divers because they are durable, casual, easy to read and functional. Of course the helium escape valve is not necessary. I agree with others, the watch itself is unnecessary since I bet you that 99.999999% of those who own a watch with HEV do not need a watch at all. Mechanical watches to me are like works of art. The paintings in my house are completely unnecessary, but I own them because of how they make me feel. What percentage of exotic car owners will ever reach the limits of their cars? They own them because of what they are capable of doing not because they need the performance. Lastly, there is a direct correlation between water resistance rating and build “beefiness.” A watch capable of surviving in 5000 feet of water must be built more sturdily than one rated to 50.
Bruh...what a response. Bravo Zulu. A comment on social media that I enjoyed reading...
Interesting.Water resistance is pressure rated. Throw your wrist into a pool and the psi exerted can easily equal the natural depth pressure at say 100 ms.Also condensation occurs within any watch as long as it contains air.Its all relevant. Cheers.
I don’t believe that’s true, and outlined that in the video.
@@JustBlueFish Its basic hydraulic theory. A seal is only as good in tolerance as the pressure applied to it at any moment. Water doesn't compress so even a tangible force against it creates huge back pressure relatively. Hydraulic rams suffer similar load failure if sudden out of tolerance forces are applied.The seals being the weakest link.
Good video. Learned a lot...
Glad you enjoyed it!
What is that watch at 0:33?
Great explanation! Thank You!
Interesting and revealing video! Can anybody explain the benefit of that Omega Seamaster protuding kind of Helium escape valve in comparison with that flat or even valves that the Sea Dweller and many other dive watches have?
Not sure good question.
Omega's HEV simply has a crown you can screw down to seal it off. The actual HEV is basically the same tech as what you see in a Rolex and is located behind the crown you see. The idea is that you seal off the HEV most of the time then unscrew the crown as you raise from depth thus exposing the valve to let it do it's thing. Extra safety measure to prevent water ingress.
@@petes5152 Thanks for explaining. I think even if Omega insists on applying an HEV, a lot of watch collectors would be happy if they would release future versions without that crown, given how few owners of a Seamaster really use it for diving.
Omega should offer no helium release valve on the Seamaster
Agreed
They do on some versions of the Seamaster
I don't care about the HE valve, I used to care, now I think is part of the style of the watch. I don't mind seeing it. I have a 2018 SMP 300, I freaking love this watch.
what is that watch at :33?
That's a Ressence Type 5.
Good eye Chi.
I love dive watches and used to do a lot of diving too. That aside, I think the design language is something of a classic. There is a lot of iconography attached to dive watches. Men in particular like to buy in to that. It's a bit like Marlboro cigarettes; macho cowboys did a lot for the brand; with a lot of smokers buying in to the strong imagery around that. So many people that own dive watches will never even get them wet, but they like the associated imagery and perceived sense of adventure.
Desmond O'Reilly I recreational dive a couple of times a year. I purposely take different dive watch every time Because it feels like I’ve put my watches ‘Through the paces’...Use them ‘how they were intended to be used’...I know, I know, I really haven’t at my recreational 80’ to 90’...But it still feels good! 😂
Men? Come on, now. Many women - attractive women - also find appeal in all this.
Thanks for the little bit of education my friend, I think it’s good to learn something new each day and it’s a bonus if it’s something you are really interested in. Thanks for sharing.
This was a very interesting and informative video.
Thanks, Guy! Another stellar video which dispels many myths...especially the “screw down crown”.
Thanks for the info, I think the reason dive watches are popular is because of the cool factor with a high majority of people who wear them don't even dive anything more than a desk.
I don’t quite agree with u on the HEV BUT I 100% agree with you on water resistance and how crazy people get saying “omg I wouldn’t swim with it unless it 200m” and the whole splash and not showering with it is so stupid of an argument that people make. I really liked the video 👍🏽
Great video....I agree 100% with your comments regarding the He valve. I wish Omega wouldn’t have included one in the PO and Seamaster Pro 300’s. But I think they think they need it to stay competitive with the Submariner which of course doesn’t have one, but is so much more popular.
Tks n congrats, this summary was long, long overdue. My Submariner fm 1972 is still alive. Bought it as n other watch cud be used everywhere, safe. As an long distance swimmer I needed to wear a watch in the pool, to observe the time under water, how long I was training. It cost Deutschmarks 1K in 1972, one month salary. Consequently 2020 a price of 10K is a months salary as well. This watch is still on my wrist at least very 2nd day, swim, motorcycle, one names it... 4 services ea 10 yrs, the 1972 movement beats at 21.600 with abt + 3 to +6s/d, 50yrs old...Which watch can do this? Cheers, Achim fm Singapore+
Amazing, hope you can enjoy it another 50years
Thanks for watching buddy.
My fascination with dive watches goes back to the fist one I purchased in 1967 and wore on a watch cuff up to 1971 when it was stolen in Vietnam.
That's too bad, would be awesome if you still had that!
JustBlueFish Watch Reviews, I’ve tried to recreate it with a Steinhart OVM on a leather cuff and bund strap.
I prefer ISO divers with my EDC because of the beating they can take. No HEV, thank you. All your points are totally valid. Thanks again for the thoughtful content, Guy!
I agree with you on nearly all fronts ,the average dive watch collectors watch isn't going to much in the line of water let alone diving. i have 30m rated mechanical with no screw down crown i regularly swim ,sauna,steam & jacuzzi in with no issues whatsoever plus is more accurate than a couple of my digitals, i think manufacturers generally impose the numbers to be over cautious so there's no comeback if it dies from a dunk.
One of the things I think watch connoisseurs know and appreciate is that watches were historically meant to be tools. So some practical use is expected. For most of us, dive watches have all the features we might ever need: you can take a shower with it, ot work in the yard with water and dust, they're sweat resistant and you can check the time in the dark. Other complications like GMT or perpetual calendars are generally less useful, because not all of us are global travelers or are willing to spend 15 minutes to set the date if the mechanical watch runs out of power.
Great vid.. Watches that don't have a screw down crown and have some sort of gasket when wound are wearing down the gasket as they are being wound. If that makes any sense....
Valuable and important clarifications ! Well done !!!
When he threw out that pun , I think I saw his face actually struggling to smile . I get he was cracking up inside .
Good information, I do enjoy drive watches mainly for the look and the robust of the watch It’s self.
I'm glad you've mentioned Marck's video, "dinamic" pressure doesn't bring that much to the wr. I don't know if the serious watch producers really test all those 30 m wr watches, they just rely on "splash resistance" theory. Does warranty cover thin when you actualy bring that watch to let's say 10m under water and it fails??
Do you have a link to that video?
Thanks for watching buddy.
Good info on this video, thank you Guy
Thanks!
Didnt know that about not all watches getting tested at the factory for water resistance. My current collection has 16 watches and 13 of them are dive watches. That screw down crown is basically the biggest selling point for me
Thanks for watching.
You are 100% correct on HEV's
Thanks!
First when I got my Omega Seamaster 300SMP I looked up everything about the HEV. I even watched saturation diving video. Talk about scary stuff those divers are under water Astronauts. So I hear what you said. I still love my watch had it. I don't care that I will never use it and trust me mine is screwed down tight and isn't going anywhere. I just like the concept and it's history and the fun I have and will have explaining what it is and does to the handful of people that might ask about it. As to water resistance thanks I studied it to and am still just as confused as you. Screw down crowns I have four and they are a pain in the butt when you have to wind the watch but not bad if the watch is automatic and all daily wearer. Great vid.
Funny thing about helium escape valves is that there are plenty of watches that just don't need them. This includes all Seikos with water resistance of 300 m or more. They are built to be robust enough not to need a helium escape valve, which pretty cool in any case.
Additionally, the part about the screwdown crowns perpetrates another misconception. Water can enter a watch if the gasket sealing the watch rotates, screwdown crown prevents underwater rotation. It is a safety mechanism eliminating a particular failure mode.
Agree HEV is but a novelty. I don't even dive with a watch any more, nor do I know any other divers who do. Timekeeping is taken care of by our dive computers. And while there's something to be said about having a backup timekeeping device, a second computer makes much more sense as a redundant backup.
Citizen promaster series also have double gaskets in the crown
I 100% agree with you on the HE valve being completely unnecessary, at least for me but on the other hand I still don't mind it on my 2500 Planet Ocean as it adds a character of its own, I will say I'm not a fan of the bigger conical shaped one on the newer 300 professional though, if it's gonna be there I do prefer the smaller less petrusive one like on my model.
🤔 Not a divers watch but i have a Citizen titanium chronograph that only has waterresitant on it's back no mention of how much it has four pushers. Still i have used it on my vacations swimming and snorkeling in the sea. It's 27 years old and never had any problems with it...
Awesome!
That's what i'm saying all the time - just because a watch has 200 or 300 meters of water resistance on it doesn't mean it's a real divers watch. I'm sure it will handle swimming or even basic diving, but i'd feel much safer with my Seiko Samurai STO while swimming than any of the Chinese brands that offer sapphire crystals and ceramic bezels with questionable 300 meters of water resist. The only non ISO dive watch that I trust is my Vostok Amphibia.
I also agree that the helium valve is totally useless and while some might argue that mechanical watches are useless as well because quartz watches outperform them in every aspect possible, at least you can use your mechanical watch while the valve will never be used and i'm sure even a moon phase is more useful than the helium valve. Some might not agree but that's ok.
Thanks for watching and for the comments buddy.
You wrote a lot of bull shit ... The Citizen promaster has a 200m recommended from the producer but yet the Italien navy tested it for 500 metes and the watch had no issues and so on !!!
@@djzrobzombie2813 So what? The Vostok Amphibia which has 200m of water resistance and was tested at around 800m and nothing happened. Just because some watches can push far beyond their recommended water resistance it doesn't mean that all of them can. Every watch company makes their tests and puts those things the way they like but like I said just because some can do it it doesn't mean that every single watch from every other brand can. There are exceptions for almost everything in this world you know.
I'm 100% sure that the watches who have failed such tests are far more but you won't hear that much about them unlike those who have succeeded. I've heard even stories about professional and expensive diver watches that got water inside of them from swimming no diving. so there's no 100% guarantee.
Dive watches are the pickup trucks of the watch world, masculine, tough and cool, most people buying a truck don’t really need them, will never use them close to their capabilities, but they are tough, big and you can dress them up as nice as any luxury car, same as a diver, big tough and you can dress them up if you buy the right one, (Seamasters, Subs)
Hahaha. How true. I am a diver and I get it. Funny thing, however. Saturation divers - like any serious diver - will use watch-like computers, yes. That said, many saturation divers still enjoy wearing a capable watch while working at great depths just to keep a sense of time and connection to the surface. The question should there be valves on retail watch production is, “depends.” Maybe adding the valve should be optional. That said, 007 Rolex or Seawolf Blancpain appeal for a few minutes in the pool or shower is pretend play and the closest anyone will ever get to being an elegant secret agent. Let’s give all but the most arrogant customers permission to feel like, Bond, James Bond :)
Damn!! I think this is your best video yet. You did that 👏
Thanks
If the discussion of this video is of superfluous watch features, then the scope of this video is far too small. The list of “useless” features for most users is myriad. Cough - the Rolex cyclops for ANYBODY with a driver’s license (i.e. corrected vision).
And I’ve got multiple pre-SKX watches from Seiko that passed the 150m pressure test (75% of their rating) 25 years later with original seals. The Twinlock and Triplock mechanisms are indeed superfluous as well.
Lastly, a screw down crown permits the precise application of torque-limited pressure onto a seal that can’t be applied with precision unless a precise geometric limiting function exists to prevent excess deformation of the seal (reducing WR and decreasing seal life). That’s a huge benefit.
I’ll add that I have significantly greater confidence in Omega/Rolex/Tudor’s ability to effectively seal an extra aperture in a case over the seal/crystal/caseback geometry or thread precision of most other watch brands .... no matter how many holes in their case they do or do not have.
I don't think availablity is a reason for its popularity. I think its popularity is the reason for the availability.
Sort of a self fulfilling prophecy.
hearsay but a watchmaker once told me that if a watch passes the 50m in a water tank it will uphold to quite a bit more.
I’d believe it.
The helium escape valve is a styling cue to differentiate the watch, similar to the rotating bezel for desk divers... an unnecessary item and cost
Very wise.
I think mechanical moonphase is not as useful as a quartz one. Same is true to an extent for chronographs.
Thanks for watching.
Good one, thanks!
Totally agree with u. But IMO u missed one, difference between water resistant and waterproof. Isnt the deep sea-sea dweller & omega(not in production though) the only companies that make a waterproof watch? Awesome video!
There has only been one watch made that you could call water proof and thats the one off Rolex DeepSea Special back in 1960. Thats because its not possibe to go deeper on Earth . It went to the deepest part of the ocean which is 39,000ft strapped to the outside of a submarine. The current version is rated to 12,800ft
"Waterproof" was used decades ago and they dropped it a long time ago because no watch is "waterproof", there's always a risk of failure. "Waterproof" would mean that never ever could water penetrate the case, which obviously isn't the case (pardon the pun). So the only thing you'd get nowadays is a "water resistant" mark.
I don’t think anyone can legally call a watch water proof. I might be wrong on that. But I think that term was no longer used for a long time.
@@JustBlueFish I believe waterproof on watches was changed to water resist due to changes to the Truth In Advertising laws in the US in the late 1960s. Companies were given a period of time to comply & Seiko, for example, changed it's dive watches to water resist in 1970/71.
I agree with the notion that no watch is waterproof however the deep sea special Rolex makes me doubt that statement.
It is water resistant to the highest pressure that exists on this planet. There are higher pressures on other planets but they dont contain water so by that definition it is water proof!
I'm happy that so many viewers admit that mechanical watches are unnecessary and it's all fantasy. Nice to see that some people can admit the truth. What drives me crazy are dudes who say they need a "tool" to tell the time and that tool cost $8000.
Thanks for the information! I wish we had a better standard for water resistance ratings...But we don’t. As an avid watch collector it drives me crazy, and I also think many manufactures play-off of the misconceptions of consumers. I decided years ago I was not going to buy a watch, that didn’t have at least a 50 meter water resistance rating. The only exceptions that I’ve made to that are a couple of ‘Chinese specials’ That otherwise have great specs and are dress watches. Field watches I want 100 m Water resistance, And let me explain why. Three or four years ago now I wore my Hamilton Field watch while white water rafting. 50 m of water resistance was the rating. It was submerged in no more than 5 feet of water and then only for less than a minute (max). It was full of water and ruined by the end of the day. Sport watches and field watches in my collection Have 100 m Because there’s too many choices out there that have it, so why not! I like a screwdown crown on any sport or field watch as well… That way you can’t simply knock it or accidentally leave the crown pulled out(In which case the water resistance rating is zero). I go diving on occasion(twice last year). I’ve never been below 140 feet and usually less than80-90. Maybe it’s being overly cautious but I don’t even wear my 200 meter watches that aren’t ISO certified when I do that. Why would I when I have several ISO certified watches?! I realise that that’s being overly cautious, But at least That way I am I’ll be guaranteed never to ruin one of my watches watch again!
So we can swim with a 30 meter water resistant watch? If it is tested to iso6425
What effs me up is that uniformity found on even microbrands - every fing watch *is* a diver- and they all look the same , with very noted exceptions.
Maybe someone can help me. I'm having trouble finding watches with certain complications that I know for a fact exist.
- a high intensity laser
- a circular saw
- a grappling hook
- an explosive timer
I know they exist because I have seen videos of them, but none of the manufacturers I've researched seem to carry them.
I think watch enthusiast like drive watches more, as watch cases are metal, and most dive watches come with Bracelets that match the watch case, Bracelets are just more attractive to the many, all those Rolex watches come with Metal Bracelets, who has a Cellini and Bracelets last longer than straps.
You're sure right about the helium valve. I love the wart on my Seamaster but I realize it's a poser. Not one person has ever piped in on a forum saying they're a saturation diver who used a Seamaster. Not even a liar! I wonder if you open it underwater? If so what if the external pressure is higher and water rushes in? How does our diver know if the watch is filled with helium yet, or to full pressure? What if she works outside the environment and has to ascend 100 ft? Should she open the valve? You are correct, it is just one more thing to make sure is tight before submerging the watch, one more hole in a water resistant container.
Thanks for watching Steve!
Never open it underwater. Only for the decompression phase, which is all dry in a chamber.
Cheers, some sense in there. But some point sim not so ok with, cheers
Valid points re HEV & saturation divers. They’re wearing indestructible $80 GShocks that are +/- 5 seconds a month.
I don’t think anyone minds the HEV on a Rolex deep sea - it’s a cool functional element (even if its as useless for most people as a moon phase or a tourbillion). Omega have made their lower tech version part of the Seamaster look, I’m ok with that, gives James Bond another button. In practice you don’t really notice it if own the watch.
i buy watches with 100m water resistance or more just because i don't have to take them off when taking a shower or swimming( i never dive )
If it won’t leak when I clean it it’s water resistant enough for me.
Good vid
Thanks
"Ya had me at 'the HEV' valve.
HEVV for short
Thanks Guy for all of your useful content, even if it about useless things. lol. I really don't like dive watches because they are typically to large and thick for me. I am into the field/military watch genre. Would like to see something from that genre in an upcoming segment. Thanks again, Brian.
Interesting comments regarding the helium escape valve. There's a lot of truth to what Guy says. However I have to agree with those who have pointed out that one could very easily extrapolate this kind of thinking to call into question the point of even owning a mechanical watch at all. Sure it's true that 99.999% of owners are never going to _need_ a helium escape valve. Hell, I can imagine that 99% of them are never even going to take the watch anywhere near the sea, much less go in a compression chamber, or whatever. But it is just the fundamental characteristic of a watch like a Sea-Dweller (for example) that it has the specification of a professional saturation diver's tool watch. You don't have to _need_ any of the features. It is about the watch's intrinsic character. It is about what the watch IS. Taking away the HE-valve from that Sea-Dweller would therefore be limiting and detracting from the watch. It would be making it that little bit less interesting and unusual. Moreover, if you are going to spec a Sea-Dweller based on what is realistically _needed_ by the vast majority of buyers, where exactly do you stop? Does it _need_ to be pressure resistant to 1220m? or would 200m? be more than enough? Okay, but then how is it in any meaningful sense still a "Sea-Dweller"...?
Here’s the thing, dive watches aren’t used for diving hence it doesn’t matter what features they have or don’t have. If you go diving get a $200 dive computer.
I suspect the whole nonsense surrounding water resistance ratings you describe resulted from manufacturers over hyping the capabilities of their products, and then being called in on it, perhaps through claims for financial reimbursement or repair under warranty, and subsequently going through a “how can we wriggle out of this one” process. In particular I reckon it may have been one of the main players In the budget to mid range segment, who have a very large share of the market (I’m not going to say who because I don’t want to get sued, but I think you can guess . . .). This particular company suddenly came up with the whole “dynamic pressure” excuse as to why, for example, a 30M watch is only splash proof, and a 100M watch can’t be taken down to 100 meters!! That’s marketing I guess, & the result of manufacturers talking-up their products for competitive advantage 😁! As to the whole HeV issue, I couldn’t agree more with you. I’ve read that modern Viton gaskets render them obsolete even for saturation divers in any case. I love your videos btw, always informative, & very well prepared! Thanks.
Thanks Adrian glad you enjoyed it and good theory on how the WR thing came to be.
The helium exchange valve is a detonator. Of course its important.
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Thanks “
About the Helium valve: Like Spock said, “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” If this thing is something almost no one uses (99.9%) just make a few special editions with this valve for the very few saturation divers. Even though I love the Omega 300M I wont touch one with that valve sticking out. A know a lot of people who told me the same thing.
TBH I think all pro-divers use dive computers now anyway.
Good vid, but these points would have meant more 20+ years ago when watches were still tools. Now watches are mens fashion accessories, and Omega's HEV is a marketing gimmick, screw down crowns just sound safer, and most people don't take a luxury watch in the water. Many just like what looks good, and based on the crazy Rolex market, what holds value.
Well said! It’s about time that these various myths are the debunked. HEVs are functionally a total waste, but like a lot of these things, if someone likes them on their wrist, no big deal.
I’ve been saying the same things about water resistance for years, having been an engineer and having designed and worked with thousands of different pumping and piping systems involving sealing off instruments and such. This whole “dynamic loads“ argument is total BS. Such a thing doesn’t exist except at very high velocities.
I think the water resistance rating is far more dependent on the make of the watch. I would certainly trust the rating of any decent quality watch, and not believe any WR rating from the lakes of MVMT or DW.
Thanks for clearing this up. I’m sure I will refer to this video Many times in the future when I run into people online making these ridiculous claims.
Thanks man glad you liked it.
Rule of thumb for WR ratings. As with all dive equipment, you want your equipment rated for twice the working pressure. In other words, if your max depth for a dive is 150 feet, 100 meters will be more than adequate. Most recreational dives don't go beyond 80 feet and average 40 to 60. Sunlight disappears at around 90 to 100 feet. So, a 60 foot dive (18.29 meters) doesn't need a watch with a WR rating of more than 40 meters. And, if new, a watch with a 30 m WR rating will do just fine. Science, it's a wonderful thing.
One last point, out of the 300 or so commercially rated divers in the USA, less than half are gainfully employed. The advantage of a mechanical watch at extreme depths is that there is no battery to compress and short out.
Dusty environments are a completely different matter.
The HEV. A small valve designed to make increased sales from the gullible. I have a relative who is a saturation diver from the late eighties till now - he and his colleagues wouldn't in their wildest dreams spend the sort of money on a Rolex or Omega to go saturation diving with, way to expensive for a tool, and as for using a mechanical watch - no way hose.
Apparently Saturation divers who use mechanical watches just pop the crown during decompression
The protruding helium escape valve is an eye sore imho. Divers are not as appealing due to their thickness. Not an everyday watch like an Explorer 1 style.
It is not about need. I used to own an SRT Challenger that would do 176 MPH. I had no plans to drive around at 176 MPH. The feeling just comes from knowing that it CAN.
The same principle applies for most people and their big daddy dive watches.
Hell, I'll go one further. I do not dive at all...I do not so much as snorkel. But I own a dive watch with a helium escape valve and...
...I almost never wear it because it is too damned big! Still, I like it sitting on my winder...just like I used to like knowing my Challenger COULD almost keep up on a NASCAR track. It's not supposed to make sense. If it were about making sense, we'd all buy hundred dollar, multi function, digital G-shocks and call it a day.