DeWALT’S New Impact Driver & Battery Tech Cause Conflicting Comparison Results!
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- Опубликовано: 18 ноя 2021
- We got conflicting results when testing Dewalt's new PowerStack Stacked Lithium battery in a comparison with dewalt old technology 20V max lithium ion cylindrical cell battery packs. While comparing PowerStack to 2AH 4AH 6AH and 8AH we used Dewalt's (DCF850P1)
ATOMIC 20V MAX 1/4 IN. BRUSHLESS CORDLESS 3-SPEED IMPACT DRIVER and as our comparison continued DeWALT’S New Impact Driver & Battery Tech (DCBP034) 20V MAX DEWALT POWERSTACK COMPACT BATTERY Caused Conflicting Comparison Results!
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what do I always get the feeling that this dude wants dewalt to fail hard??
The one variable on all these tests was that you never switched the bits the tool that kept winning was using the same sharp bit. Vince in one of your previous reviews I believe it was with flex tools you stated how the accessories were more important than the tool you said it's where the rubber meets the road. If I had to guess it's all in the bit the major benefit of this battery is it size. Thanks for doing the review though much appreciated 👍
That was actually my thoughts as well.
I’ve been using the Powerstack batteries for about 3 weeks already and they aren’t great. I know the people are going to hate me for it and say I don’t know what I’m talking about but the Powerstack form factor and fitment is great and the power is definitely there. The run time is the issue. I know it’s only a 1.7ah but I have 1.5ah and 2.0ah 12v DeWalt and Milwaukee batteries that last longer. I have 4 Powerstack batteries and went through three, fully charged packs, using the 850 impact and the 4 1/2” circular saw. All I was doing was removing screws (it was around 60-70) from the frame of a wooden fence gate and making two cuts in 4x6 and one cut in 2x4 PT lumber. For the other odds and ends stuff, the run time is ok. But trying to use these for an extended period of time, forget it. Has anyone else experienced anything similar? Is anyone using these exclusively on the day to day.
Hmm seems like there’s a problem with your batteries or how you use them, I have 2 of them and can use them both for about 4 weeks on a single charge. I work in window installation, carpentry, demo and remodeling and framing. I’ve never had an issue with them. And I suggest you use the flexible circular saw it’s a beast
“Way more deeperness” love it
As DeWalt has mentioned the powerstack has improved the contact points of the battery pouch cells "allowing more current to flow", as well as my assumption of the new battery composition allows for less internal resistance vs the round cells. In theory the less of a restriction out of the battery means more power into and out of the tool which in turn means a depleted powerstack battery faster since its able to flow more power but it will work harder till depleted. The result should be higher density battery = smaller form factor at the same capacity "not runtime". There shouldn't be any increased voltage gains between the pouch/round cells 18/20v overall. To me if you were truly getting more power out of the powerstack at 1.7ah vs to 2ah round cells the powerstacked tool should always finish first but run out of power first as well. If I had to take a guess there is some sort of "battery/tool power management tech in the battery/tool that is skewing the results, which is clearly at play when your squeezing the trigger but the tool stops running. Just my 2 cents.
Lipo puch cells also get hot faster and as heat rises it loses its resistive advantage
I agree. I think they limit the output so it conserves it battery life and I think thats what they tried to do with the flex volt like in an earlier video the flex had much less output. Thats why these short tests of output aren't necessarily the best at showing the tool capability.
I bought these.. been using them and have definitely noticed they drain quicker
It's cool seeing what drills are faster and all but as someone in the construction field it comes down to durability and battery life both usage and charge time.
As much as I want to agree with this I can't. If you're in the construction field, you're simply buying the tool that aligns with the battery platform you are using.
I agree. I think these tests fail to show the battery's true capabilities in terms of power consumption to life efficiency.
True that, i’m all for if the tool is right for the job and can get the job done faster, and lighter weight- I think that’s easier on the body than using a less powerful tool with long battery life or a tool that’s powerful but the batteries depletes fast. I’ll wait on the 5ah power stack and see how the reviews like 😂
Great testing.
It is good to see Dewalt's continued support by making this new battery type compatible with their 20 volt system, I started building my cordless Dewalt tool collection this year and seeing them doing this makes me happy.
Yeah thats true. Hopefully the other brands will follow suit.
Same here, ive been in the Milwaukee platform since they started the m18, since the dewalt is on sale i decided to try their line out
Word on the street is type 3 batteries on the way! Meaning: you had nicad the lithium (current) and next isssssss??? Supposedly not to far away!
@@wondon2992 nicad, lithium, stacked lithium??
The impressive thing to me is how well it works with the old 2AH battery. For most things the DCF850 performs well with any battery.
The glass shattering at the drop of the plastic bag made me laugh. Props. Lol
Send it to Project Farm
Really enjoyed running that power stack. All the power of 8 AH and half the size.
Thanks for your videos, really helps me make my purchasing decisions. If the power stack can live up to the twice as many charges before it needs replaced deal, it’ll be the way to go.
Great videos, guys! Inconsistencies may be coming from the wood. Wood is a natural product and effort is affected by the grain density and direction, knots (even small ones). We've all been there. We're an inch deep drilling a hole with a spade or Forstner bit as our progress slows temporarily. We look inside the hole only to find nothing out out of the ordinary other than grain orientation. We start drilling again and break through that grain and the rest of the hole drills just fine. Does this matter in regards to this test? Probably not a whole lot. Also, a run of 10 screws instead of 1 may be more consistent.
Another great VCG tool test👍👍👍 I think when I upgrade from the 885s I will be going with the 840 since in my line of work I dont really use or need the speed modes and I do have one 887 for the finesse work. The consistency of that 850 has got me scratching my head. However, those power stack batteries on the other hand look pretty promising for us professionals that use our impacts all day long.
The 840 is a beast!
Why do so many feel that Ah is a measure of the amount of power a tool will get and perform better? When in actuality, an electrical engineer and DeWalt will tell you that is more of a measure of how long the battery should last when charged.. So many act like an 8ah battery will perform better than a 2ah, when the only performance gain one should expect is longer run time.. Here is a 22 min video that proved nothing at all. Other than there are more variables than you guys expected. Although, it is a great video on what this new impact drive can do for it’s size. It is amazing! Thank you.
Hello again Vince and Vcg
Thank you for another Great Video. I 'm not sure what to make of the power difference? Again thank you
I will say this 😎 I'm liking the new studio. I'm liking the new videos. Very slick, fresh. Thanks for all you do #verycoolgang!
5:17 That’s true Vince, as most use 1.25” to 1.625” drywall screws when hanging drywall.😄
Thx for the honest testing I see a rematch on the future!
Great stuff like always just bought my dcf850 replacing my dcf809
After watching the video, I want to say that Vince, Jimmy, and VCG have these videos down solid. Great testing, straight to the point, switching off tools, and the instant replays instantly available means you should instantly hit that like button! Thank you for a job well done. I’ve been subbed to the channel since early 2019 and man have you guys come a long way. Still miss Nick though!
You list good points but you forgot perhaps the most important part of the test: the downward force applied in putting the screws into the wood. How do you regulate that when you have two different men using two different tools and no way of measuring the force used? After all, more force would equal greater torque and draw more power than a previous or future test. It boggles my mind at how confused they seem when the tests don’t seem to add up
Hey VCG gang.
What storage system do the yellow boxes come in that you get your screws from (2:53)?
Thanks, guys.
Great review and interesting results...I think the new battery technology is better with the weight...the video was just exciting to watch...tools in action...VCG ....💯👍
Thanks Bullet!
I'm wondering how does the DCF850 hold up to the 887 and 888 Impacts using only the power stacks in one test. Then another test using all three impacts with the 4ah compact battery. This way a consumer could see what are the advantages of both the differences in battery power and tools?
The improvement of batery cell and capacity really increasing DeWalt performance... Good job DeWalt 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼😁
my dcf 921 atomic does the false trigger and flashs the lights but it sometimes i have to pull the trigger 30 times or pull out and put the battery back in before it starts working again. my dcf 850 i had the anvil stick back and lost all drive to the impact(motor spin bit did not. just made a loud grinding noise.) i then put it in forwards and reverse a couple times and it started working again. i dont know if anyone else has these ghost issues from time to time.
Doesn't matter what battery is in it - that new 850 is sweet. Ordered one as soon as I could find one available and it's been fantastic on the job. Obviously battery does matter on some instances but I just wanted to point out that the DeWalt 850 is excellent
Have you tried it with just the 2ah battery?
I agree. The 850 is great. I would say one area of improvement, IMO, would be to slow the Rpm’s down on speed 2 just a touch. Speed one is for very delicate work, which is appreciated, but speed 2 needs a lower final rpm stop. I cammed out numerous times on wood fasteners. It may just be me but I’m definitely no “newbie” to driving fasteners by any means.
@@ApacheLife-50 I agree. I have noticed that the 850 will turn lug nuts right off on speed 2... No sweat at all. The older gen DeWalt impacts just didn't have the ass to do that.
Have you had the dead trigger issue? When I pull the trigger real slow sometimes nothing happens.
@@emort6 when did you buy your ,850 atomic?
Great test video
Just a data point that may have been over looked. Vince tends to drill much more plumb. Meaning he has less material to drill through. The angles do matter. The last few runs in the video greatly demonstrate the variance that I’m talking about.
Once again Vince. You have proven to be the best tester of tools out there. Stay safe out there my friend.
Damn that's crazy. Cant believe 2 850s just decided not to work. Kinda glad I went with the 840. Maybe try the test on the 840s.
I'm not unboxing my personal DCF850 until I get the powerstack. :)
I completed my "teeny tiny tool" collection by the way:
ryobi bid10XR. 10.6cm
ryobi bid11XR. 9.9cm
Dewalt DCF850. 10.08cm
All three of these can run on a powerstack because they all have XR bayonets. They take dewalt batteries :D
From what I've seen of others though: I think your problem with speed one on those 850s is that it's an automatic-stop mode for driving drywall screws, not actually a "speed 1"
Your absolutely correct that’s what it’s for.
Do you go by acawas by any chance?
My impact does that dcf877 the Bluetooth one it cuts outs if I press it rapidly
The temp difference in the trigger of the weaker tools the failure of power to the .motor and probably happened in the test right before our eyes. Great Test
Has anyone else found with dewalt bits they will come out with the I'mpacts? I never had an issue with milwaukee and I love dewalt but their bits seem to always slip when using my impact
I can appreciate what your doing with these, I use my dewalt tools mainly to work on cars. I just pulled the trigger on one of these to get into tight places/ pull fairings off of bikes quickly. the compact tool should fit into the engine bay nice and zip screws and stuff right off interior and exterior parts. I hardly use my dewalt tools for things other than mechanic work, which in some cases is medium duty, but for stubborn fasteners its rough on tools.
I would love to have another video where you rip a car or bike apart with one of these and a 3/8 stubby impact. I also have that one too. Also have the 1/2 stubby. Where I get a little weird with tools is I also have a couple bauer and hercules tools that I modded to run off of my dewalt battery packs. hehe.
One thing to consider is the lumber. Knots will slow down any tool or battery.
Who’s to say which gentleman is putting more force into driving THEIR screw into the wood? I highly doubt their both using the same amount on the reg, so how can they possibly compare each test to the previous one?
Is it the power output for the size or the better maneuverability in small spaces that makes this new impact drill desirable?
I have about every dewalt tool they make. I just got this impact and I’m thinking about taking it back. The trigger inconsistencies drive me nuts. When I pull the trigger I want it to spin. Every time.
Did you ever take it back? If yes, did your swap it out? Wonder if you got a dud 😲
I’d like to see this battery comparison on a combi-drill. My guess is the impact mechanism doesn’t increase the amp draw on the battery depending on load, so much as a drill would without the mechanism. LiPo’s shine when a higher amp draw is required.
I have Milwaukee tools like 12v and 18v impact gun, 18v rest of the tools and ALL OF THEM HAVING TRIGGER ISSUES, it happens allot of times that I have to press that trigger more than twice to make it work that tool especially the circular saw 6-½.
So when my friend saw this issue he started switching to Makita.
You should make a jig to hold the tool with weight. Taking out the human factor is a must to have a correct test just like Project Farm does his test. I still love the channel. 👍👍👍
it seems to me like dewalt over corrected the earlier smoking
overheating issue. because now they cut out far too often. that is a bit
of a shame in my opinion. that they cannot get this right
Ya I got the atomic impact wrench got another one from home depot. I had to take the battery out and put it back in for it to run again
Milwaukee would agree, on the m12 marketing their impact drivers are on the CP side of the battery arrows.
Just got a dcf887 today. Im a homeowner/ diy-er so its perfect for me. And i got a dcd 796 and wow it’s awesome.
That 796 is awesome! I got one in the rolling box 4 tool kit about 3 years ago and I loved it. That is until I dropped it in a old stripper pit lake while using it as a motor for a homemade kayak propeller lol. I found it a week later with a magnet but that water ate the electrical connections apart. Never seen anything like that in life. At least not being in freshwater only 7 days I'm guessing since it was a old mine had something to do with it
@@blake102989 that’s unfortunate, but thanks for the story!
@@harry3338 yes it is, I now have the larger one but the extra bulk of it is significantly more and it is unnecessary for pretty much any use. The one you have can handle the same as I've put the bigger one through so you made a wise choice.
@harry333 I am also a diy-er and also believe the dcd796 is perfect for a homeowner like me as well. It's plenty powerful and has a hammer drill function. It's loud at full speed though.
@@blake102989 originally i wanted to go for the dcd996, but they didnt have it and they showed me the dcd796 and its not as huge which is great. Crazy how powerful it is too.
The face and the dial-up sounds lol
Pretty Cool I have to invest in Dewalt you're helping me make a decision 🤔
Ok you got a new sub, good stuff guys.
It’s 20 degrees cooler by the trigger because Vince is using gloves and other guy is not, his hand is heating the handle 😂
My 850 cuts out power as well. But only when i compress the trigger slightly for a moment before pulling the trigger all the way.
Same here
I got that new driver. I have already snapped off three fasteners, including lag bolts. She'll get the job done, and then some.
The one tool does seem to be lower in power. But to me dimensional lumber has varying density even in a small area. Maybe some tests in some more densely consistent materials?Just a thought.
Yeah on the first 1/4 x 6” screw you can tell the guy in the right was going through tougher wood
It could have been the bit they never switched out the drill bit between guns maybe one came from the factory sharper than the other it definitely happens!
For how small the difference is, if the power stack is over priced, I don't see the point for the backyard hobbyist.
I'd like to know actual run time on that 1.7ah power stack compared to the current 1.7ah cells.
It's 15% run time right of the top and lipo degrade much much faster and unevenly per pouch. It's why they are not used in large arrays
Crazy how close it is .💯
You should try the same test on the dcf840 I’ve noticed on the three speed impacts like the 887 and the new atomic that the battery sizes don’t really matter as much its around the same performance
I have too say your did a awesome job in all valuables
I'd like to see a test of how long the power stack battery would last on one charge as compared to a 4ah battery. As much as I'd love to invest in these new batteries, in my use case I do not have time to swap batteries more often than I currently do throughout my workday. I build RV's and run 1 inch self taping screws into steel and aluminum. In a 7 hour workday I change my battery once. On a side note I use a 4ah battery and my partner uses a 5ah battery and both use xr's, our guns penetrate the steel and drive the screws at the same speed. If you would like us to give you a real world review send me a few and we would be glad to test for you. Trust me when I say the results would be definitive. Love your channel, thanks for your hard work!
Your answer is in amp per hours, 1.7 definitely won't beat 2.0, even if battery is 15% better, 15% of 2.0 = 1.7, so it is even.
The only difference is probably the weight.
they need equal down force the 5lb strap and weight method. been watching VCG Construction for years good stuff and we share names also
Third time on the spade bits the guy using 4ah held the impact at quite the angle creating way more wood to drill through than Vince who held his correctly for these testing purposes!
Powerstack worth every penny specially with the free batt deal and 229 combo kits with 850 or 840. I use mine more than my new 8ah battery on my dcd998. Goes down to 2 bars quicker but still full power. Dewalt got a winner and some 5ah on the way too.
I'm glad I watched this. I'm def not gonna waste my money on those powerstack batteries
Great video Vince
Hmm, I wonder if the speed controller has slightly worse mosfets on that slower one. I have a feeling they don't BIN a lot of those components. Would make sense that the trigger area is warmer and motor is cooler.
your mate usually has his tool on an angle when doing the paddle bit test which means he,s going through more timber them vince to finish his hole off , the straighter he holds it the better
Makes me wonder how tight this quality control is...or how tight the QC is of parts they source...strange that the one tool, regardless of operator, position on lumber, or battery ran slower.
I may be wrong but wasnt the older one sent by De Walt and the second one bought at the depot?
850 and a power stack. Over milwaukee for me. I like the size and weight.
Good job Vince.
Now run that Lowes 840 with the Power Stack! I bought myself an 840 to replace my old brushed 885. $99 bucks with two itty bitty 1.7ahs and charger is a hell of a deal
thanks for the info, just ordered one from Lowe's...I'm in the process of replacing my 18V Dewalt's as they die, after at least 5 years of hard use for most of them, just recently had purchased a DCF887 bare tool, but this deal was too good to pass up...sale ends 24 Nov...may pop in and pick up another one🤔
How's that DeWalt 840 holding up bro?
@@jacobsebastien3910 Still going strong but I haven't used it a ton or anything
Got the same bundle. $99.00 was a heck of a deal.. u fortunately I had to return because after like 4 uses the chuck on 840 was no longer holding bits in.. they would drop out as soon as I tip the impact driver to screw something in. Some extensive jiggling would usually get the chuck to grab but for a month old tool it was BS so returned. Ordered the 850 but based on the trigger/failure to spin issues I may return that and get the
DCF 845..
It would appear you are splitting hairs at this point. The powerstack benifits from higher amp output throughout its discharge cycle. The cylindrical cells cannot offer the amperage as well at lower voltage to my understanding which mean's you would see more voltage sag more quickly on the smaller 18650 and 20700 packs. I can only imagine the power stack will be limited by its abililty to manage the heat within the cells as its smaller size also means smaller heat dissapation abality. If you are running a large drill all day like a dcd999 or something your still going to need a 5ah or up pack to see continuous hard duty, the little powerstack likely wont standup to that kind of abuse. Pairing it with the DCF850 which doesnt really require large amperage for smaller jobs would likely be just fine. The price-to-performance ratio is a whole diffrent animal. That is to say, if you already have a bunch of 3-4-5-6-8 ah batteries i would see almost no need to spend the money on the powerstack battery when you can get some of the larger packs on sale for a better deal...
You need to do a video explaining batteries. I want one that I can charge once a year, hang two pictures, get thrown across the room, and keep on ticking. It seems like there’s 50 choices for something I might use for 20 cumulative minutes a year. I still want to buy quality though.
Great video
Even with the HO packs from Milwaukee, on the impact drivers and drills I find that the HO doesn't come into play until the battery is 50% or less. You can notice the HO big time then. I understand that is irrelevant to these power stacks, but may not be to far off
Some tests have shown that HOW Milwaukee battery still out performs the dewalt power stack
Looking forward to more comparisons though.
Was having trouble keeping up with the test. I assume the power stack just lasts longer?
Can we see the battery on the 20v Miter saw?
it seems to me like dewalt over corrected the earlier smoking overheating issue. because now they cut out far too often. that is a bit silly really
When is the Power Stack battery dropping in stores?
I would like to see how the power stack works on Ryobi. I know that Ryobi has an attachment for DeWalt batterys
I like my Dewalt but I love makita I think they are the best 👌
Most underrated channel
Thanks Salim, glad you enjoy the content!
Milwaukee needs to step up there game , dewalt is coming up !!
They can hang and bang with a 6.0amp but would well and truly under perform in battery life over the day. Youd be constantly charging them.
Skill beats technology most of the time. Skill + technology now you’re talkin. Real things I care about are reliability and battery life.
Exactly. I've actually seen people lose jobs because the person saw that they had cheap tools and automatically assumed that their craftsmanship would be cheap as well. Turns out the guy with the cheap tools did better work than the guy with the fancy truck and DeWalt as the first guy that they hired with all the fancy tools actually screwed their house up and they wound up calling back the first guy who did a better job and was still cheaper on his pricing even though he outdid their request. Now imagine all tools had the same technology instead of companies trying to Corner the market on bells and whistles that typically fail. I've had more DeWalt tools Go Up in Smoke than some of my Ryobi tools. So apparently their technology is still lacking. How you going to upgrade a battery and still use the same Motors. Sounds like a matter of time before more smoked up tools that are going to force people to have to buy more or something more expensive when they cornered the market on that too. It's all a Monopoly game. Give me a skilled Craftsman with hand tools over a guy with the full Monte of dewalt's anyday
9 time out of 10 I will use the dewalt 4 AH with out of the 21700 cells
I just checked through the comments and I didn’t see anything related to this. I just got a new kit In today, and after watching this video I noticed I had the same 2ah battery that the leds light up, BUT, did you notice the size difference between the old 2ah and the updated one? It’s much wider, almost identical to my 8ah. I wonder if maybe they changed to 21700 cells? Could you do a tear down?
Has there been a Milwaukee vs dewalt video yet? It would interesting to see their best impact vs dewalta best impact driver. The red is crushing it with their offerings lately.
Forget about the dcf850. The dcf840 is a monster. That's the real deal, but for some reason, it has not enough promotion.
From all the tests done the new powerstack has the same power as the 5.0AH battery. It just doesn't have the same run time.
Variations from tool to tool isn't good. It don't spin sometimes...Jimmy's let go of the saddle bit once. I hope they didn't rush this dcf850 and we find out there is issues down the line. I have a dcf850 kit that I haven't even opened to test yet. Got it for $110 with a hack
That stacked battery format has been around 15 years in remote control toy batteries
Speed one is perfect for cabinets
GREAT VIDEO GUY'S 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Best channel to rate dewalt items :P hes unbiases AF LOL!!
My question is which battery will last the longest >? My issue so far in renovation is having to wait on my batteries to charge up because they decharge too fast !
Bought that impact, got overheated first day i used it , i was drilling holes on metal, punched 4(3/4 holes with a impct rated unit bit) the power stack battery last some hours of work, then i switched to a 4amp battery and the impact got overheated, never happened before with the xr, i am thinking of taking it back to home depot
I think this tech is just supposed to last longer, while drilling at similar speed. More Battery length means less recharge cycles and therefore longer life. Id assume thats why flexvolt had a slightly lower output in your video, because it was conserving power more efficiently. Now with these cells, you don't even have to lose output.
And obviously the anti bind mechanism works very well too.
Lipo batteries have a shorter lifespan, generally. They’re advantage is a higher discharge current so under intense load they can keep providing the amps needed. My guess is this didn’t show that because the impact mechanism doesn’t increase amp draw depending on load, compared to a drill where it is directly connected.
@@eirenwhelan3312 oo
I don't know what it says about us but am I the only one to think this is more entertaining than an F1 race ? And judging by the prices of wood these days it's catching up to the cost of running it eh !
🤣👍🏻
I have all dewalt power tools but it is frustrating when you have the trigger problems. It sucks that we have to be married to a brand because it's way to expensive to switch over to milwaukee. I'd love to have something like a cellphone plan where you pay monthly for tools and you could switch when the quality go's to shit
I noticed that most of the time when one person would drill at a slight angle, he would lose. That's because he's drilling through more wood! You have to drill straight to have it be fair.