It would be interesting if you came back to talk about this game, now that all episodes are out, and explore the ingenious ludonarrative harmony and the theme of depression, regret and grief.
While you're waiting: Geek Remix has done a bunch of interesting analysis videos on LIS. Not in the same vein and a lot of them happened before the release of ep. 5 but still really well done and interesting.
Yes, I did watch a few of their videos while waiting for Ep. 5. The only issue I have with them is that they took the story too literal and not as an allegory.
Watched this episode just now because I have already finished all five episodes in one go yesterday. I actually felt like the ending of episode 2 is the most powerful moment in the entire game, both for the whole approach to the topic of suicide, which is really brave, and also because they do not let you rewind in this particular moment. I was unable to save Kate in this choice, and it was devastating to me. During all the rest of the game, they don't pull the trick of not letting me rely on the rewind mechanic for a particular scene, and that made this point of the game feel a lot more powerful to me. I'm not sure if you played through the entire game yet, so I'm holding back on telling details, but even in its final moments, the game does not reach the same level of impact of that scene. And I felt the ending was a little weird... like one of the choices you do is the one the game considers "the right choice" and the other is like an afterthought. Would definitely like to hear your opinions on the whole season, though.
It's been a while, so I may be mis-remembering, but I believe you can still talk Kate down with inspired guesswork (or a walkthrough) even if you've completely screwed things up up to that point (checks walkthrough) yeah - if you give two bad responses, she jumps, but there's always at least one good response available to every prompt - intervening with David and taking her phone call (along with another choice earlier) mean there's no bad responses to those particular prompts, while not doing them means there's only 1 of 4 responses (and not always the obvious one) that will work. For me, the most impactful choice is that one early in Episode 4 (if you've played, you know it) - that's the only one where I had to step away to think before choosing - despite being pretty sure that there wouldn't be any lasting consequences. On the other hand, the ending, with its stripping of the consequence from all your other choices definitely left me feeling disappointed and angry (and the more I think about it, the less I think of it). It feels like the game lied to me about my actions having consequences.
I adore this game for a few reasons but my number one reason is Max. How many games have you play as a woman who isn't completely sexualised? This, Portal, Beyond Good and Evil, Mirrors Edge um...... Resident Evil 1 and 2.... Silent Hill 3 kind of though there are sexual undercurrents in that game too... There really aren't that many.
Man, glad I found this channel I gotta tell you though, I was somewhat irritated with LiS' use of player choice... Kate ended up coming off as completely inconsistent and bipolar. At the end of it all, my failure to quote the proper scripture is what sent her over... This felt somewhat bizarre as a moment before she had her spirits lifted and it all came down in a moment. It was disorienting, honestly, and I feel it could've been executed better. But it's an interesting try nonetheless. I'm also surprised you didn't examine the other implications of your choices or even how it works with games as a genre. I found that I was often asked to pick between Kate and other friends, such as Chloe, who gets somewhat irritated at you for picking up Kate's phone. I was kind of under the impression that I was being asked to choose between certain people, which is kind of a thing VNs and similar (which I would say LiS falls under) tend to do but it usually kind of culminates in the end. Me being wishy washy, I never really stuck to any one person. I'm also curious how you felt about the end of episode three, how all your choices thus far are kind of sorta retconned through events I won't spoil here. I mean episode 4's coming out later, but the end of episode three created a very clear picture as to who Max and Chloe "really were" following those events. And I kind of doubt the old choices actually can come into play, without feeling somewhat hackneyed. Anyway, great worked, I'll be glad to subscribe. You're very well spoken, but you really do need a new mic haha.
underdog353777 Well this is one of my shorter episodes, which just tackles a certain topic or something. A literary analysis would certainly have gone into more detail about the game as a whole, but I wouldn't do that without the full picture. The game may very well gets its own analysis, but only once it's complete. So this was specifically about its unique approach to the basic act of choosing a branching storyline. I guess how Kate comes across can depend on one's choices. I saved her without issue after being nice to her all the time, so it worked fine for me, but I can see how what you describe could be far more frustrating. As for the end of episode 3, I have similar feelings, but I can't imagine they would just retcon everything. I'll reserve judgment until I see how episode 4 handles it.
Yeah, there's a degree of awkwardness in how the mechanics of Kate Marsh on the rooftop play out in terms of story. Mechanically, there's a simple counter - the game runs through a series of tests where either you have to say the right thing now, or you have to have made the relevant choice previously, and if you get, I think it's three things wrong, Kate jumps. The problem is that the outcome of each test is presented independently of the counter - so, rather than "stopped David and have no strikes yet", "stopped David but have one strike" and "stopped David but have two strikes", you just have a single "stopped David" scene which has to cover for all three. The game was made on a relatively tight budget, and there are a number of places where the cracks show - the end of episode 2 is one of those places. As for the end of episode 3, obviously by now you know how that plays out in episode 4. I predicted what was coming there in terms of the retcon, but that also led to the one single choice in the game that I struggled with the most - knowing (with reasonable certainty) that there wouldn't be any lasting consequences from my decision for anyone but myself and Max, it still took me about 15 minutes to decide.
hurr durr terk abert ferm ermblerm it hers murriges. this series would actually be a good opportunity to talk about persona 4, since player choice is big in that game (though probably no as big as life is strange)
UnderPresher Heh, Fire Emblem: Awakening would actually be an interesting one. I hadn't thought of it for this series yet, but the way the characters' relationships branch based on how you play with them is quite an interesting one. And I might do Persona 4, except that I absolutely WILL do a full analysis on that one at some point, so it might be a bit unnecessary. :P
I think it is a good idea to have a separate track devoted strictly to this subject. Writing a story with many narrative branches seems central to the art of video games. It is difficult enough to write a story with a single branch, it is hard for me to imagine writing a story with the impact of Lord of the Rings where many characters are given the freedom to affect the outcome and each other. I think my favorite choice game to date is "The Walking Dead".
Robin Allen Yeah, it's certainly an important element of the medium. And as for The Walking Dead, I would do a Player Choice episode on it, except that it deserves an entire analysis in its own right. It'll get one eventually. :D
Oh interesting! I just made a video about exactly this topic in LiS, kinda wish I saw this first, I really tried to find out if something similar was already out. FeelsBadMan. Mine is about Before the Storm though, so the rewind thing features less prominently, though I don't think it did anything positive for the first game honestly.
The biggest thing the rewind offered the first game was a way around the problem of only having hints to go on for your avatar's next lines of dialogue - the thing where you pick the dialogue option "nice dress" intending to compliment the person you're talking to, but your character jeers sarcastically instead (or vice versa). Being able to pick an action/response/dialogue option and find out what Max actually says (and how she says it) rather than having to rely entirely on the brief hint makes the choice of what to say next more consistently meaningful.
HighCalibur Yeah, I haven't yet been doing this for a year and hardly have the money to go getting expensive, super-high-quality equipment at this point. It's still a really small channel, if finally growing at a decent clip. Really, the problem is less the mic and more the acoustics in the room I use to record, but that's another thing I just don't have the money to properly fix at the moment. So I'll happily get on that, but that is why I mention the Patreon at the end of the episodes. ^_^
Brenden Hudson I actually do mention Shadow the Hedgehog in the episode. But there are even far worse examples than those ones. Like the gritty Space Invaders reboot, or Bomberman: Act Zero.
Britton Wooton Indeed there was. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Raiders_(video_game) I rented it the moment I heard of its existence. It's terrible. And hilarious. It's beautiful, really, a symphony of unnecessary existence and just plain badness. The kind of bad game that's perfectly playable, just horribly and hilariously bad at everything it does.
It would be interesting if you came back to talk about this game, now that all episodes are out, and explore the ingenious ludonarrative harmony and the theme of depression, regret and grief.
I certainly plan to at some point! There's a lot to talk about, for sure.
While you're waiting: Geek Remix has done a bunch of interesting analysis videos on LIS. Not in the same vein and a lot of them happened before the release of ep. 5 but still really well done and interesting.
Yes, I did watch a few of their videos while waiting for Ep. 5. The only issue I have with them is that they took the story too literal and not as an allegory.
oh hell yeah, I'd love that!
@@GameProf Have I missed this one, or is it still on the "at some point" list?
Watched this episode just now because I have already finished all five episodes in one go yesterday. I actually felt like the ending of episode 2 is the most powerful moment in the entire game, both for the whole approach to the topic of suicide, which is really brave, and also because they do not let you rewind in this particular moment. I was unable to save Kate in this choice, and it was devastating to me. During all the rest of the game, they don't pull the trick of not letting me rely on the rewind mechanic for a particular scene, and that made this point of the game feel a lot more powerful to me. I'm not sure if you played through the entire game yet, so I'm holding back on telling details, but even in its final moments, the game does not reach the same level of impact of that scene. And I felt the ending was a little weird... like one of the choices you do is the one the game considers "the right choice" and the other is like an afterthought. Would definitely like to hear your opinions on the whole season, though.
+José Renato Fernandes Freakin'... I forgot Episode 5 was out! I need to get on that ASAP.
It's been a while, so I may be mis-remembering, but I believe you can still talk Kate down with inspired guesswork (or a walkthrough) even if you've completely screwed things up up to that point (checks walkthrough) yeah - if you give two bad responses, she jumps, but there's always at least one good response available to every prompt - intervening with David and taking her phone call (along with another choice earlier) mean there's no bad responses to those particular prompts, while not doing them means there's only 1 of 4 responses (and not always the obvious one) that will work.
For me, the most impactful choice is that one early in Episode 4 (if you've played, you know it) - that's the only one where I had to step away to think before choosing - despite being pretty sure that there wouldn't be any lasting consequences.
On the other hand, the ending, with its stripping of the consequence from all your other choices definitely left me feeling disappointed and angry (and the more I think about it, the less I think of it). It feels like the game lied to me about my actions having consequences.
would love to see an analysis on life is strange 2 some day! especially now that the 3rd one has been confirmed :)
Would love for you to talk about LIMBO (and maybe Inside and the differences/similarities in them)
I adore this game for a few reasons but my number one reason is Max. How many games have you play as a woman who isn't completely sexualised? This, Portal, Beyond Good and Evil, Mirrors Edge um...... Resident Evil 1 and 2.... Silent Hill 3 kind of though there are sexual undercurrents in that game too... There really aren't that many.
Gave me some TGWLTT flashbacks here.
Especially the part where time just freezes at a serious plot moment.
i still dont get why i cant take the pitcher and step in right after
The Flying Nun
Man, glad I found this channel
I gotta tell you though, I was somewhat irritated with LiS' use of player choice... Kate ended up coming off as completely inconsistent and bipolar. At the end of it all, my failure to quote the proper scripture is what sent her over... This felt somewhat bizarre as a moment before she had her spirits lifted and it all came down in a moment. It was disorienting, honestly, and I feel it could've been executed better. But it's an interesting try nonetheless.
I'm also surprised you didn't examine the other implications of your choices or even how it works with games as a genre.
I found that I was often asked to pick between Kate and other friends, such as Chloe, who gets somewhat irritated at you for picking up Kate's phone. I was kind of under the impression that I was being asked to choose between certain people, which is kind of a thing VNs and similar (which I would say LiS falls under) tend to do but it usually kind of culminates in the end. Me being wishy washy, I never really stuck to any one person.
I'm also curious how you felt about the end of episode three, how all your choices thus far are kind of sorta retconned through events I won't spoil here. I mean episode 4's coming out later, but the end of episode three created a very clear picture as to who Max and Chloe "really were" following those events. And I kind of doubt the old choices actually can come into play, without feeling somewhat hackneyed.
Anyway, great worked, I'll be glad to subscribe. You're very well spoken, but you really do need a new mic haha.
underdog353777 Well this is one of my shorter episodes, which just tackles a certain topic or something. A literary analysis would certainly have gone into more detail about the game as a whole, but I wouldn't do that without the full picture. The game may very well gets its own analysis, but only once it's complete. So this was specifically about its unique approach to the basic act of choosing a branching storyline.
I guess how Kate comes across can depend on one's choices. I saved her without issue after being nice to her all the time, so it worked fine for me, but I can see how what you describe could be far more frustrating.
As for the end of episode 3, I have similar feelings, but I can't imagine they would just retcon everything. I'll reserve judgment until I see how episode 4 handles it.
Yeah, there's a degree of awkwardness in how the mechanics of Kate Marsh on the rooftop play out in terms of story. Mechanically, there's a simple counter - the game runs through a series of tests where either you have to say the right thing now, or you have to have made the relevant choice previously, and if you get, I think it's three things wrong, Kate jumps. The problem is that the outcome of each test is presented independently of the counter - so, rather than "stopped David and have no strikes yet", "stopped David but have one strike" and "stopped David but have two strikes", you just have a single "stopped David" scene which has to cover for all three.
The game was made on a relatively tight budget, and there are a number of places where the cracks show - the end of episode 2 is one of those places.
As for the end of episode 3, obviously by now you know how that plays out in episode 4. I predicted what was coming there in terms of the retcon, but that also led to the one single choice in the game that I struggled with the most - knowing (with reasonable certainty) that there wouldn't be any lasting consequences from my decision for anyone but myself and Max, it still took me about 15 minutes to decide.
hurr durr terk abert ferm ermblerm it hers murriges.
this series would actually be a good opportunity to talk about persona 4, since player choice is big in that game (though probably no as big as life is strange)
UnderPresher Heh, Fire Emblem: Awakening would actually be an interesting one. I hadn't thought of it for this series yet, but the way the characters' relationships branch based on how you play with them is quite an interesting one.
And I might do Persona 4, except that I absolutely WILL do a full analysis on that one at some point, so it might be a bit unnecessary. :P
yeah probably
Grand video! n_n
I think it is a good idea to have a separate track devoted strictly to this subject. Writing a story with many narrative branches seems central to the art of video games. It is difficult enough to write a story with a single branch, it is hard for me to imagine writing a story with the impact of Lord of the Rings where many characters are given the freedom to affect the outcome and each other.
I think my favorite choice game to date is "The Walking Dead".
Robin Allen Yeah, it's certainly an important element of the medium. And as for The Walking Dead, I would do a Player Choice episode on it, except that it deserves an entire analysis in its own right. It'll get one eventually. :D
Oh interesting! I just made a video about exactly this topic in LiS, kinda wish I saw this first, I really tried to find out if something similar was already out. FeelsBadMan.
Mine is about Before the Storm though, so the rewind thing features less prominently, though I don't think it did anything positive for the first game honestly.
The biggest thing the rewind offered the first game was a way around the problem of only having hints to go on for your avatar's next lines of dialogue - the thing where you pick the dialogue option "nice dress" intending to compliment the person you're talking to, but your character jeers sarcastically instead (or vice versa). Being able to pick an action/response/dialogue option and find out what Max actually says (and how she says it) rather than having to rely entirely on the brief hint makes the choice of what to say next more consistently meaningful.
Might want to get a better mic, what you're saying is great but the echo is distracting.
Give him dat Patreon support:)
HighCalibur Yeah, I haven't yet been doing this for a year and hardly have the money to go getting expensive, super-high-quality equipment at this point. It's still a really small channel, if finally growing at a decent clip.
Really, the problem is less the mic and more the acoustics in the room I use to record, but that's another thing I just don't have the money to properly fix at the moment. So I'll happily get on that, but that is why I mention the Patreon at the end of the episodes. ^_^
+Games As Literature hope you revisit LiS now that ep 5 is out.
He doesn't mention The Witcher 3, which is the benchmark in player choice in games so far (ya know, for me).
That's because this episode is about Life is Strange. :P Also I'm still working to catch up; on Either 2 at the moment.
Witcher*
Sorry, phone was dumb.
Shadow the Hedgehog, Call of Duty Black Ops, and DMC are all games that were all made to be more hard core for no reason
Brenden Hudson I actually do mention Shadow the Hedgehog in the episode. But there are even far worse examples than those ones. Like the gritty Space Invaders reboot, or Bomberman: Act Zero.
Games As Literature wait, wait... there's a gritty space invaders reboot??!! That sounds hilarious...
Britton Wooton Indeed there was.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Raiders_(video_game)
I rented it the moment I heard of its existence. It's terrible. And hilarious. It's beautiful, really, a symphony of unnecessary existence and just plain badness. The kind of bad game that's perfectly playable, just horribly and hilariously bad at everything it does.
Heavy Rain
***** star game