Making A Vintage Machinist Die Filer - Part Three - Final
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2021
- PART ONE: • Making A Vintage Machi...
PART TWO: • Making A Vintage Machi...
G'day everyone,
I am starting a new project that will take up the next few videos on this channel. I am making a vintage style bench top filing machine/ die filer. These little machines are great for precise work where small parts need to be filed and the cut needing to be perpendicular to the work.
These machines are once very common, but are much less common nowadays, due t a move towards CNC machines. There are no commercial options as far as I am aware, and the few that you can but come as a kit that you self assemble using cast iron castings. I had looked into this option, but freight costs to my part of the world put it outside of my budget.
I am making a die filer using some cast iron and mild steel, machining it using my mill and lathe. In this video I machine the base, vertical column, horizontal column and bushings/plain bearings.
In this final video I will be producing a mounting system for my sherline lathes DC motor to power the die filer, and then I will mount the die filer to a piece of pine. Finally I will take a few test cuts in brass and copper.
Cheers
Lathe: Sieg C3 7x14 mini lathe
Mill: Sieg x2.7l Mini Mill
#machining #DIY #workshop
Excellent job, I joined watching your journey, making this machine. thanks very much.
Some years ago I had a die filer I acquired from a factory sell off, a great big heavy floor mounted machine with a 3 HP motor.........it went as it was too cumbersome.
Since then I toyed with the idea of making a small bench type and this video is what I have in mind.......small, light and simple. and takes up little room in the shop.
Just discovered your channel and I can't stop watching. This was a great series and I hope you make more random, useful tools! I'm especially impressed that your making equipment like this on your mini lathe and mini mill. It gives me hope lol. Keep up the great work!
I would be very tempted to mount that in a workbench. You can still change plates. It's a great machine that shld be set up all the time!
Not bad mate, but I do have a few suggestions (I am a machinist and have had lots of education and training with various materials, feed & speeds, and machining techniques; part of training was under the German Industrial Mechanic Apprenticeship Program, and I have my mechanic and machinist certificates from the training I needed to go to Germany for [am in the US].):
1.) [5:30] You used a 6mm endmill for the key slot. What you want to do instead is use an undersized end mill, likely a 5mm in this case, and then slot in the middle and go over +/- 0.5mm from center to bring the width into spec. The most noticeable reason for this is chatter, and by extension, finish. You can clearly see the sides of the slot having lots of pocket-milling chatter, which was caused by the endmill basically being pushed away back and forth from each side as each side is cut on the one pass. This oscillation can make a horrendous finish and can even over-cut and bring the sides out of spec. By using a smaller diameter endmill and then going back to bring the sides into spec., you wont have this problem and you'll have a nicer finish by far. My philosophy in machining is, "It's the little things." Little things/improvements like that can really help prevent frustration and irritation with your parts down the line/later on.
2.) [5:36] Please please PLEASE choke up on your part. Brass luckily is fairly stiff (and has actually less elongation under stress than most all steels), so there isn't *as much* deflection as aluminum or steel would have, but still, when you face the end of parts like that, only have a length of no more than 3-ish times the diameter of your workpiece sticking out of the chuck!! The best method/philosophy to have for a part like the one you made is to choke up the part as far as possible with about just 5mm clearance between the jaws and the other end of the part (that is if you're using a typical parting tool which is around 3.17mm, but if yours's around 5mm, then try 6-7mm clearance, but no more than that.
3.) [6:50] Not much to complain about here. You did well. For soft, "bendy" materials especially, you want a full depth of cut (DOC), and just lower the feed rates to get a properly turned part, which you did, so well done (This is also how machined needles and super thin parts are made. This technique is how you don't get really any deflection at all, even of parts with a diameter of only 0.5mm!). My only recommendation is to be mindful of heat. Heat, even just an increase of about 20-30 degrees Celsius can really screw with cut quality, and of course if it's even hotter, if could melt your part and the point of contact for the cut, or melt the chips, which'll interfere and mess a lot up.
4.) [7:17] Ew, cast iron. Cast iron is a b*tch. Not so much for the pretty stringent requirements to machine it properly, but rather because the graphite on and it in gets EVERYWHERE, especially lathering up and lubing your hands so bad you can't even pick up f*cking 40-GRIT SANDPAPER... xD. Other than this though, my guilty pleasure is seeing finished cast iron parts, particularly when polished, like This Old Tony's chuck backplate...
That's really all I have to say. Great job on the the filer! I've been watching your videos for a bit fairly recently, and you do pretty good for a hobby machinist! Keep up the great content!
Sincerely,
-Kew
Thanks for your points. I don't know if he'll use them, but I know if I ever get to have some machine tools of my own, I'll be remembering (at least) your point about slot cutting with an end-mill.
Cheers Kew, I must not have been clear with my explanation but I machined the slot with a 4mm end mill. And that brass was tethering on the edge of what I was comfortable with, from memory 20 diameter brass and 60ish stick out. I was going to stick a centre in the end but I think I was eager to get the part done, and it didn't cause any issues with the rest of the turning. :) And the cast iron was indeed pretty messy to face, but it's what I could get. Atleast it drills nicely, Cheers.
Really, very nice stuff - it's wonderful how you bring these things to conclusion seemingly so effortlessly.
This just made my day. Thanks Artisan!
Awesome build.
This definitely something I want in the near future, so thanks for the awesome encouragement 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
I'd put a Fexible Coupler on the driveshaf.. that way your bearings will not take any radial load...
Great video 👍
You continue to do a great job filming and editing your videos. Not to mention your excellent content that makes my hobby shop machinist self happy!
On the joking side- My Mechanics LOVES his metal files and you clearly love your hacksaw! I bet you could make from scratch a nice bandsaw!
Keep up the great work and content.
Don't worry too much about the down stroke of the file. Think about how you use a hacksaw. Do you lift the hacksaw on the back stroke? Both hacksaw and file have hardened steel teeth so shouldn't be an issue (though this is a sore point for many people). The only thing I would be concerned with is keeping the teeth of the file free of debris, but this should be a simple matter.
Great job over all!
I think the big worry was about the file grabbing the work and pushing up off the table, and I haven't had any issues with that. As for the teeth getting clogged, I have not yet run into any significant problems yet. Cheers
I am enjoying watching. Thanks for making the videos.
Genuinely enjoy watching your videos, I'd like to see more upgrade videos for that siege x2/mini mill clone
I have a good amount of stuff in the works for the mill, Cheers
Impressive machine, dude! Great series.
I congratulate you. You are doing great work...
Great build. We shared this video (along with the first two parts) in our homemade tools forum this week :)
Great series. Learned a lot! You are becoming a premier youtube machinist.
Hehe, I was taught the way of the file as an artisan gunsmith, and to me die filers fall in both the cheating and useless category. Cheating because it does file square easily, useless because filing squared is one of the thing we are taught to.
To us, gunsmiths schooled at Liege we swear by Vallorbe's files. We even have basically a file made for us in the joindresse (translated "slotting" but it's since it's a Belgian/French thing you cannot really find it with that name) that is excellent for handcrafted guns as they allow precision filing of inner corners and flattening faces (it has a spherical profile).
In handfiling we have a saying that says that you cannot make a flat surface with a flat file.
You can also use them to make handmade positive rake endmills, the built-in safe edges makes for a pretty good angle, but any triangular file with a ground safe edge can do the job as well.
Shopmade stuff is still the norm in luxury gunsmithing, the more work you put in a machine the more you can bill, and if you make your own dovetails with weird angles, your own screw with 1mm thick slots you can be assured that the gun will get back to you or to someone of your skill and schooling for maintenance. We still live on early 20th century tech (and that's what is taught today at the only gunsmithing school in Belgium).
It seems like the ideal use case would be for sharpening and shaping lathe cutters. If you were able to add tilting trunions to the table, ideally two, you would be able to very easily shape some very complex geometries.
Please do let us know when you find a file hard enough to efficiently work high speed steel 😂
Looks like it works nicely. Good job. 👍
Next project should be a tapping guide or tapping stand.
Very nice, I have been thinking about making one for years, you have encouraged me to re think it. Thanks
Well done. Thanks for the series of videos.
Outstanding 👌
So enjoyable. Thank you for sharing your fabulous project. 👏👏👍😀
Vallorbe are also great fine swiss files I like. Depending on where you are you may find them too.
Very well done. Excellent solution for your motor drive.
Thank you that was very enjoyable and I bet there will be a lot of people building one !
Very nice build!
Keep em coming!!!!
Spot on here mate great final video. Die filer has turned out really well it’s going to have many uses in the shop. I think it will be especially good for and in internal key way slots. Keep up the good work. 👍👍👍
Excellent work 👍👍👍 . Thanks for sharing
Excellent job man, great build.
That's come up awesome. Good job
Damn, that's a thing of beauty.
Very nice work!
You know, you could always make your own files. :)
Excelente, ótima ideia e serviço perfeito, parabéns.
Great mini series, I look forward to the update when you get different files. I'm interested to see if there will be defection with tool pressure. You may need to create a support mechanism or wheel above the filing area to hold the tool square to the plate.
The drive system seems to work great, l wonder if a larger diameter would work without binding, that would give a longer stroke.
All cool and fun to design and build items such as this. Thanks for sharing,
Cheers
Cheers, I have seen top support mechanisms to hold the file in place on various models of die filers, but I think that is mainly for use with larger files and parts. Overall the cuts I take take are quite light, and the deflection is very minimal. Cheers
well done EXCELLENT.
Impressed that you were able to get the motor vertical and horizontal alignment so accurate relative to the shaft. I would have expected a need to have adjustment available in both directions.
Thankyou, I designed the machine to be able to accept relatively loose tolerance parts and fit together in situ, there was slight adjustments made as I assembled it, to ensure it was as square as required. Cheers
Future project idea, power hacksaw.
Just found your channel and have to say that is a very nice build. Not sure if anyone mentioned it yet but die files are reverse of normal hand files. They cut on the pull so your work isn't trying to lift off the table. Die files are a little hard to find these days but are worth it if you have a machine.
I have had a few conversations about this topic, and I was aware of this going in. Having used the die filer with these needle files, I can say that it really isn't a problem. It might be for coarser cut, larger files, but the lift up is minimal with these needle files, probably considering how little material they remove. I actually did have a look for proper die filer files, and the only ones I could find that would ship to my part of the world, came to about 3 times the cost of the die filer itself. So for now needle files do a great job, Cheers.
welldone impressive
Great! Next step, making a clock clickspring's way ;)
Thankyou for such a good demo of this filer, I was thinking that this could be used for touching up clock wheel teeth. Thanks.Jim.
Cheers, I'm not sure what file you would use for clock wheels, but I'm sure this machine would be suitable for the job
Was there a particular reason for not using a taller column, and countersink screwing the table to the top of it, as opposed to the table mount attached to the top rear of the column?
Great series, thanks. Two years on, have you used it very often, and did you find better files worked better?
just a suggestion ,can you change the base and use this as a lathe attachment
You can, these styles do exist, but I made the choice to make a free standing version. Cheers
@@artisanmakes 😍
Nice project. Stick with the Grobet. The saw files work really great, have redone many a hand saw with the Grobet. They are a little pricey but worth it. Good luck.
I've bought some Nicholson files and to be honest, was disappointed in them. They seem to dull rather quickly.
Is the slide for the machine necessary? Is there a reason you required fine lateral adjustment on the slide? Why couldn't you just use a block for height placement and bolt from underneath for installation. Question must be...how often does the machine need to be removed?
The slide is necessary if you use this certain set up with the sherline spindle. The mounting system is a little odd, requiring a stud and key, so the slide is necessary in clamping the chuck to the drive shaft. The motor also is mounted on my sherline lathe most of the time so it is only placed on the die filer when needed.
Great project and nice video. One question. Do you really need to sacrifice a chuck for it? Feels a bit of a waste.
The chuck and spindle is fitted on the sherline most of the time and I only swap it in when I need to use the die filer
Are there any plans available to purchase or download ??? This is a great little machine.
May I suggest that you either add a gasket between the pine base and the filer, or alternately use a gasket? The tannins in pine make it cause rust for steel in close contact. The phenol in the pine has fumes that aid in rust. This is why machine tool boxes are almost always oak or maple, hardwoods do not have the phenol
I don't think it will be a issue for me since I painted the pine base and then gave it a clear coat of lacquer. Cheers
1:26
"Aluminium."
*Birb*
Excellent project and build! One thing I don't understand is the complex dovetail part. Just to hold the motor? You speak of minimal wear in the dovetail, but why would there be any wear at all? Wouldn't a simple block with some oversize holes for adjustment work just as well?
make a surface grinder next!
One day hopefully :)
Not sure how feasible is this but what if you mount the file upside down so it cut on downward stroke?
Not sure that your power transfer was any better than making a drive belt system, but it was fun to watch.
It didn't necessarily have to be better, it just allowed me to use the existing mountings built into the sherline spindle.
I enjoyed that series! I do wonder if you have a project in mind for this tool?
Keep up the good work!
Nice job. Where do you buy your stock from.
Please forgive the stream-of conciseness comment.
You have me wondering... Do you have an independent 4-jaw chuck for that sherline head?
If so, what do you think about just mounting a brass pin, eccentric, in the 4-jaw chuck and just ditching the eccentric shaft and bearings you made?
Now that I write it all out, I realize that in the configuration i described, the lathe head would be experiencing constant up/down oscillation with force relative to how hard you push against the file. Not good for a soft wood base, not rigid enough.
And... Thinking some more, it occurs to me that a die filer attachment could be made to mount on the lathe cross-slide (you made that convenient T-slot cross slide), and chuck up to the head for power.
I only have the scroll chuck for the sherline. I looked into getting one a long time ago but it's cost prohibitive to get all the parts in my part of the world.
And those style of die filers do exist, it was just a choice of mine to do it this way.
Thanks for this video series, I really enjoyed watching it. At 8.50, how did you get the motor so perfectly aligned with the input shaft? I can't see any means of making horizontal/vertical adjustments- it just seems to slide on and fit perfectly
I made the bushings slightly eccentric so I could rotate them in the housings to align them. It worked pretty well. Cheers
What rpm speed cuts best ?
👍👍😎👍👍
I have always wanted a dye filer, but I do not have socket files and it troubles me how little of the file is used, just inefficient. Did you have any design ideas based around existing hand files? I'd like to come up with something similar that could take advantage of the full length of bench files. Obviously the eccentric would have to be quite a bit larger, were there any other design ideas that occurred to you?
I designed this from the beginning to be used with fine cut needle files, it takes off such a small amount of material by design. You could use the same principle here for larger files, though there is usually a spring loaded support to hold the top of the file in place, which shouldn't be too hard to implement. If you google filing machine there are some that look similar to a scroll saw, and these will work best for larger files. For me though, this works just fine. Cheers.
Ever thought of converting this into using broach tools?
Very nice, the only thing I would be concerned about is if the sherline spindle and die filer shift aren't in perfect alignment the bearings on the sherline are going to wear very quickly. Also seems a bit of a waste of a sherline. Cheers
It's not a huge concern, everything was designed to have loose tolerances so it could all be alligned in situ (and the bushing was made big enough to account for the spindle run out, which I had concerns about.), though I didn't film any of that. And the sherline uses tapered roller bearings so it should be fine. And the motor only fits here when I need to use it. It's usually in use on the sherline lathe.
@@artisanmakes Very cool, I wondered why you went to such trouble with the motor base, it makes sense if its to swap the motor quickly. I'm glad it wasn't a Sherline unused I was looking for one years ago but even second hand they're very expensive.
Really enjoyed watching the build series!
Just a small tip: Your design is overconstraint: The brass bushing and the two bearings of the motor work against each other. You might look into adding a shaft coupling between the motor and the die filer to eliminate eccentricity.
I could steal a plum coupling off a spare stepper motor, but i don't think its a huge issue, and it spins pretty freely. Cheers
I have noticed that you often 'apologise' for using 'wood-working' tools on Aluminium - don't! It is widely known that one of the advantages of constructing things from Aluminium is that you can use your wood-working tools on it.
@4:51 no... no you're not... NO! NOOO!! GOD NOOOO!!! OH PLEASE DONT!!!
I don't see why not, they might be basic tools but it worked out just fine. Much easier than shelling out for a tool that I wouldn't use often.
wood tools are generally fine to use with aluminum, you just go easy on the feed rate. Spade bit isnt optimal but its fine.
Please stop using brass for bushings. Brass has a higher tendency to just seize up. Use bronze, please!
I've used brass many times for bushings that don't get a huge amount of wear and I've never had issues, so as long as you oil them before use. It's a much more cost effective solution for my needs.