Honda goes full anti repair, launches attack on 3D print community for providing basic parts models
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- Опубликовано: 19 окт 2024
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the DIY community is what inspires the next generation of engineers and inventors.
The whole reason I am an electrical engineer is because a car inverter stopped working while I was trying to play halo 2 in middle school with friends on a field trip.
Honda doesn't actually care about the next generation of engineers. Quarterly profits > *
@@racineer nono it's quarterly profits =higher stock prices = more pay for executives
Yeah, I've printed several things for cars, a washer fluid cap for a Land cruiser, a knob for a truck, some pieces for a dashboard in a WV
@@thedude5040 Can you tell us the story?
This is honestly one of the most anti-consumer things that a company has done in a while. There are people who spent hours/days to make 3d models from scratch for accessories and other such things, out of love for their Honda car, and this shitty car manufacturing company wants to tear all that down!? what a bunch of BS. not to mention the horrible precedent this sets...
In the long term, killing a costumer base is self destruction.
I hope that everything they demanded to be taken down is perpetually posted elsewhere.
If they get away with it every other car company will start doing the same thing sadly
@@rossmanngroup not just car company, I'm sure. One of the best things about owning a 3d printer is being able to find models for accessories, parts and upgrades for things around the house, anything from your car to your fridge to your computer and your phone. If Honda gets away with this it'll be the death of all that. We need to show them that this is unacceptable
@@rossmanngroup I have to agree. By the way, you have a dead discord link in your description. Might need to fix it.
A lot of the time, 3D printing isn't just _another_ avenue to repair something, but the _only_ avenue. I recently reverse engineered and reproduced a few parts that are no longer manufactured for a vintage Kawasaki. Not everyone has the technical know-how or time to do that, so without being able to share 3D print files, a lot of people are going to be SOL. Luckily, I've had no issue sharing those files online either so thanks, Kawasaki.
Well done sir as always...! These companies will be just fine. The fact they are going after the few with the tools/resources to keep something on the road vs. it going to scrap yard should be applauded, not appalled...
See? 'Creative Engineering' at it's finest, and it works! (another reason why if you cut me, I bleed green 😏😉)....
Also, see my comment about a smashed Honda Accord window 😉👍 😎🇬🇧
I had to print a choke perch for my KLR650, it works perfectly and saved me about $20
Companies should embrace 3D printing. Designing products to use 3D parts could cut back manufacturing costs significantly. It could also allow people to use it for extremely long time. Working a farm is a good example. When the closest place to MAYBE pick up a replacement part is hours away, the ability to simply print the part would save thousands of dollars in expenses every year. I would rather have a machine that is designed to break easy to print/replace parts before harder to replace parts if it meant that I didn't have to buy new parts or wait until the part gets to me before I can continue to work. When you only have a few days to do something, waiting even just a few days for a part, can ruin the nessasary timing, as well as backing up other work. It doesn't take long before you can get overwhelmed. We'll you know what they say; "if you want something done right...."
Ronald! Great to see you here, sir! Thank you for your always reasonable and sense laden words of wisdom. Now get back to your reality... wherever that is!
I literally know hundreds of people who lowered their honda by simply cutting the spring coils and doing many other at least questionable modifications to their car, and this goes on for more than a decade. If that did not hurt Honda's reputation why on earth would a 3d printed washer fluid cap would hurt it... It's utterly ridiculous and, shame on you honda...
Shame indeed!
In 1970 and earlier Honda included special fasteners on the crank shafts of their early motorcycles. Having seen the butchering of British motorcycles by the average shed mechanic, Honda decided only a commercial mechanic who bought the “special tool” would successfully maintain the product. It worked and the British motorcycle industry died. Fast forward to RUclips and yes we can now 3D print the tool. Or the whole British motorcycle if needed. The argument from 1970 no longer holds. In fact the maker space is epistemically greener than any manufacturer by diverting items from landfill. Honda are on the wrong side of history
Especially when some parts like that or a rubber engine outer seal on an oil pump can no longer be found by the OEM.. I still drive a 93 Accord EX
Let's start shunning these anti-repair bureaucratic nazis from major businesses and put them in jail where they belong.
I have a lifted Honda Accord, and I also don't understand how a washer cap makes any difference
Ford did the exact opposite, they have endorsed making 3d printed accessories for their Maverick truck and released CAD files of the truck to make designs from.
Wow that's pretty cool. Kind of surprising though.
Pretty based.
I bought a brand spanking new Ridgeline 3 months ago and just filed a complaint with Honda quoting this exact thing about Ford. Told them if they dont reverse this decision, it will be the last Honda I or my family will ever buy, and the last time I recommend one of their vehicles to anyone as well. Maybe they dont care about one customer, but if enough of their paying customers complain, maybe they will listen.
Also ford allowing Forscan to exist and not installing a block like Chrysler did with their security gateway modules in 2018 hindering 3rd party software to read the modules.
Aaaaaand thats how to make money
as an ex baker. im also terrified of people making their own bread.
imagine making the stuff yourself at home. so many bakers will lose their jobs.
@@Gogglesofkrome I think the OP's comment was sarcasm....
@@Gogglesofkrome Seriously? This was sarcasm clear as day lol.
Did your mom or grandmom bake bread when you were little? I recon they did, so has everyone elses mom, and current moms done. Do you still see bakeries around? Yes.
It's amazing that this just flew over your head.
@@eXX0n Either you're still a kid or you haven't been online for very long, but people being absolutely serious while making blatantly insane or wild arguments is practically an every day occurrence on the web.
😱
It was sarcasm. But jeez.
Honda should have to sue all the Makers individually. Dragging a 17yo into court for fixing his used ‘97 Civic would look real bad.
I have a 91 CRX and there are *many* parts that are no longer being manufacturer by Honda. I had to purchase some parts off people who 3D print the parts.
@@SI0AX I hope you’ve got a good lawyer! 🤣 The problem is the spineless lawyers for whatever company aggregates and hosts the files. They’re just too happy to do whatever a bigger law firm says and take their fees instead of actually defending the issue. Feels like there’s a Section 230 or 1A angle.
Or really good, depending on your perception of Japanese-led companies.
As an owner of a classic car I must say... This is dangerous. My classic hasn't had any new manufactured parts for it for a while now and there are many many MANY plastic parts that do break and need replacement (because, you know, 30 something year old sun burned plastics aren't exactly durable). 3D printing is literally the savior for this parts, I've designed and printed a bunch of them with excellent results but I totally get that many fellow owners of these cars won't have the time or knowledge to do this stuff, so I happily print and sell (for very cheap) the parts they need.
Messing with this sort of things to me is plain ridiculous, the manufacturer won't be making any money from my classic as they don't even sell parts and that car is a Hobbie, I have another car for commuting and such, which could even be from the same manufacturer (in my case isn't) if you happen to really enjoy their products. What do they get torpedoing this? From wy side only hate.
I should also point out, there isn't that many people printing car stuff, apart from me I don't know anybody using any 3D printed part for their car, this is an extreme niche thing, it's not "mainstream" or anything.
Well, it's a sad world I guess
My oldtimer put me into 3D printing world. After around 2 years I have finnaly made front reflectors/turnsignal lamps for 70' Pontiac Lemans. Trick is there are no replacements and nobody is making reproductions. If you brake one - you can't do jack shit. MAYBE you can find some on forgotten scrapyard but that is a fat maybe.
.
They don't care, they want you to buy new cars not keep classic's going.
They have to nip it in the bud now while the majority of the public doesn't even realize that there is a potential alternative to expensive low supply parts
The plastic hinges on my glove box broke a few years ago. Of course, you can't just buy the plastic hinges that broke, you have to buy an ENTIRE NEW GLOVE BOX for I think it was close to $400. Luckily, some amazing individual had already created a 3D model of the exact plastic hinge I needed and put it on a 3D printing website. So I was able to order this part from a 3D printing service for about $12 shipped and repair the glove box myself.
A smart company would get out in front of the problem and just start selling the designs/schematics to 3D print stuff.
Also, it's not "if you want to spend thousands of dollars on a 3D printer", it's hundreds to maybe a grand or two max for the at home maker.
Case in point, you can pick up a Creality Ender 3 (entry level 3D printer) for between $99 and $250, depending on when you catch a sale, and be up and printing good quality parts within a weekend.
What Honda did is 100% appalling and I truly hope it backfires on them.
I think thousands would be refering to laser sintering processes, those mashines are expensive, but the layers are a lot stronger and the details you can produce have a rather fine resolution, also no resin? But as you pointed out a well made fillament printer and/or resin printer can be bought *together* with assesoiries for 500-1000 bucks.
Love my ender3 v2!
@@BrokenShooter made an intake for my car with a 260€ ender 3 max, so yeah
@@Flashbang_Photo I'm looking to get an Ender so I can make big thick black dildos.
Good to know, thank you for the information
If Honda (and other manufacturers) were smart, they'd sell a license for these parts so that a small percentage of the price paid for the 3D printer files went into their own coffers. Then they could declare themselves as "supporting the right to repair" and I suspect they'd actually see a significantly positive response from existing and potential customers.
Remember when the music industry was so anti-internet? Now they make most of their money from it. Instead of considering change as a threat, companies should embrace it as an opportunity to extend their revenue streams and create goodwill within the marketplace.
I disagree someone designed that model ... Unless the file was stolen from Honda then they have no legal right to be compensated for someone else's work.
The problem of safety will arise, manufacturers would need to ensure that the 3d printed part was printed according to instructions, I.e. correct material, correct infill, correct wall thickness etc.
Well, the music thing is partially true, remember only a year ago when the RIAA attacked youtube-dl, yeah that did not go over well and shown they definitely didn't learn their lesson the first time, they just tolerated it because that's what people wanted and were spending money on.
@@kifuri3 I think he is implying that honda should make their own models, and sell the files for a fraction of a fee compared to the spare part. That way they still make the money off it, but don't have to pay for the production of the part.
@@captaincaveman5152 That's covered by Honda "licensing" a file...
Interestingly Ford has included slots called "FITS" on Maverick that are for owners to design and 3D print their own accessories to customize their truck. They also provide some pre-designed accessories that anyone can print. I think it's a fantastic idea and hope to see it from more brands in the future. It does bring up a good question though as to how brands will view that kind of 3D printing versus replacing a stock part.
HONDA take note --> ruclips.net/video/zaV16gLxBeU/видео.html
Awesome!
Don't forget Ford lobbies against Right to Repair.
@@ThorOtheBIG Yep, millions of dollars. Nobody wants you to own your vehicle, especially not the bank who you still owe cash to for it at some crazy interest rate.
I dislike the maverick cuz its another pickup truck, but that forward-thinking from Ford makes me appreciate that truck more than I would. Thats amazing and I do truly hope more companies do this!!!
Honda - " You wouldn't download a Car"
3D Printer users - "Hold my Cup Holder"
But honestly being able to print your own part for a fraction of the cost and have it function as good if not better than the "Original" part is a huge aspect of the DIY world.
Having said that let me finish 3D printing my own Honda car :D
This didn't go well for Weber recently when someone in the BBQ community put up the DIY design for a replacement knob for a commonly broken propane grill. Because they put the silhouette of a Weber Kettle on the face of the knob (just like the original). Weber sent the guy a PM asking to take it down and he put them on blast in every BBQ group I saw. Redesigned it with something like "Should have bought a Traeger" and Weber backed down from community pressure.
'You wouldn't download a car' reaches maturity
The answer to that even back then was "I would if I could"
Like hell I wouldn't.
Every warp capable society in Star Trek would like to know your location...
not even that, any civilisation with replicator tech really
that's probably where it's all heading eventually (assuming we survive long enough) - 3D printers is just the first baby step
@@janisir4529 even back then, the quote was not and has never been that. It was always "you wouldn't steal a car"
@@oleanderthor-borre9506 my entire childhood is a lie!
Still would totally download a car. In fact just abolish copyright already.
a redditor tried to make his own toaster and failed, then used this to reason nobody can create or repair anything by themselves, it takes a team. apparently a lot of people agree. isnt that absurd? it says alot about how deep in our culture this limiting belief really is.
link ?
Meanwhile everyone ignores that Hacksmith Industries is a bunch of bored guys who do stuff like create over the top toasters because they can, often solo.
"haha he is a noob" should have been the correct response
You lost the context of this "experiment". Dude tried to create his own toaster FROM SCRATCH essentially. Sourced plastics from the trash, recycled it and melted it down to reform it into what he needed, and everything else besides foundry of the metal components and any electronic components like resistors i.e. he did this trying to stick to only paying what you could purchase a toaster at WalMart for, which I believe was like $13.00 or somewhere near that. He succeeded in building it, did not succeed in spending only the price you could buy it for, and it did work......for about 15 seconds until it fried itself. His point was to make the connection about the correlation between mass global manufacturing of products and cheap consumer prices of said products. Had nothing to do about repairing products, only about the manufacturing of said product to begin with
@@ddanbeatz186 here's a link to a Ted talk from a guy who tried building a toaster from scratch. I don't think he came to the same conclusion as the Redditor, bit that makes sense. He's giving a Ted Talk. And a Redditor is, well.... a Redditor.
ruclips.net/video/5ODzO7Lz_pw/видео.html
Screw'em, Honda's argument rings hollow in my ears after I've come across so many plastic/rubber parts that OEM manufactures simply can't be stuffed to make anymore after a few years, especially when more often than not it's the cheap service parts like pcv valves, oil seals, or has just been over integrated to the point what should be a $5 part and a 5 minute fix it costs thousands, when I'm paying $300 plus for a OEM valve cover seal that should be $20 at most from a dealership, or can't get a cheap service parts like pcv valve because it's integrated into a $3000 piece of plastic, a guy printing a cup holder isn't the problem here.
Like the targa seals for my Del Sol. If I want to replace them, I have to buy used ones for around $300 and cross my fingers.
I’m convinced that right to repair and sustainability go hand in hand. It should be mandatory for companies to make machines repairable. My Mac is nearly 10 years old and suits my needs, but I had a really hard time getting a new battery and replacing the keyboard. If we want to have a Sustainable future we need to stop making things impossible to fix.
Too many companies respond with "muh recycling!" But recycling still takes limited resources. It's reduce, reuse, recycle in that order. I prefer to focus on the first two.
@@NickDalzell
And what better way to reduce the need for new items if you can fix components?
@@NickDalzell recycling is basically a complete lie, especially when we're talking about plastics and ewaste.
@@tissuepaper9962 shut up, dummy.
And recycling is pretty much a scam. Basically nothing gets recycled. 10% at most.
A huge amount of 'recycling' is waste raw material (like plastic flashing, cut off ends etc) at the factory being reintroduced into the manufacturing cycle again. Not consumer goods recycling
This is another can of worms but government going after "ghost guns" could also negatively affect 3D printer community as well. Imagine only being able to import a printer that can run signed GCODE... they could totally do this.
The thing is they would need to do that to every control board built or imported into the country, which would be an impossible clusterfuck
Well when they define a gun as a block of aluminum 2x4x6 then no reason that a piece of sheet metal isn't a whole car. FYI I love your controller mod videos.
I've been kinda worried about this. Besides the fact that the whole "ghost gun" thing is a bunch of populist hyperbole, the idiots in Washington have no problem making idiotic laws like what they wanted to do with drones. I could see them requiring a backdoor on 3d printers or something insane like that. Wouldn't be enforceable though.
I'm wondering if a technically 65% lower would fall under the new rule as needing a serial and a 4473
@@hitch4526 yeah when you consider that most printer boards are just basically arduinos, The processing power required to communicate on the internet constantly would need an expensive upgrade.
I have restored several Honda motorcycles, and I can tell you that the company probably makes more money from spare parts sales than they do new models. I personally spent at least 2 thousand dollars on their famous genuine parts in the plastic packets with the white and red labels. But nothing is more frustrating than when you get 99% through rebuilding an engine and then find that everything is available EXCEPT for something seemingly insignificant like a water pump impeller. So, if Honda aren't going to step up their game and make the parts available, then why not allow the aftermarket to reproduce these parts to fill the gap? I mean that's good capitalism , right?
If you were to build a new car out of "spare parts", it would cost significantly more than the factory manufactured one. There is a lot of money in spare parts.
But that's my point, they do a shit job at keeping those spare parts available..
@@shoominati23 And then have the nerve to derail the 3D printing community.
lol I read "fuck.u.charley"
@@shoominati23 Right now, it's supply chain issues. They are unavailable from their suppliers (Honda does not manufacture every part that goes into their cars - neither does BMW or MB for that matter). As I said in a previous post, I just resurrected a 2006 Civic Sedan for a friend. Every part was available but for 3 exterior trim pieces. I could not get rear brake pads from Honda, but I sourced Akebono pads - who is an OEM supplier for Honda (at least in the U.S.). Yes, fiddly bits are expensive ($5 plastic rivets to hold the insulator pad on a hood anyone?... and there's 10 of them) but there's also the cost of keeping the inventory and storing it - waiting for someone to come by and buy a part for a 16 year old car. I tried aftermarket "rivets" but they broke - which put the $150 insulator at risk.
What is lost on most people is the cost to develop an automotive product. From my experience in the auto business, the first two years of the sale of a newly developed vehicle are financial losers due to the recovery of R&D costs, compliance costs (EPA emissions and NHTSA crashworthiness), tooling, depreciation, and so on.
Let's make it personal. How much does it cost you to go to work? A few gallons of gas (unless you work from home), lunch, clean clothes and skivvies, a shower. That's it. Is that what you expect to be paid? Or are you greedy and want more?
Have some fun.... price parts for a BMW. See how the availability of those are (not any better).
I've owned several Hondas and Acuras and their on-board diagnostics suck. Intermittent electrical issues are a nightmare to diagnose and fix. Automatic transmissions with internal, non-replaceable filters, that clog and cause sudden, unexpected downshifts. I'm convinced Honda makes cars designed to be disposed of rather than fixed after 5 years. I won't own another. Hearing this crap about Honda only reinforces my decision. Thank you Louis for defending and fighting for right to repair with the passion you do.
History of reliability means nothing if it already disappeared 5 years ago. That is why you cannot apply old trends to new products, at least not always.
I have designed many parts for various cars, atv’s, rv’s and household items. Including HONDA vehicles. I posted some of these on a well known website. The parts I make are items that are not offered by HONDA. So they can pound sand. I worked for HONDA for 25 years, so I am not at all “anti-HONDA”. In addition, 3D printers don’t need to cost thousands of $ to be able to be a wonderful tool. Appreciate your content.
“A couple of thousand of bucks for a printer” actually it’s way cheaper to get started these days. You can get the most popular 3D printer to date right now for like… 200$ if you shop around. Fantastic video! I love that you are bringing attention to the community from a “right to repair” perspective.
One small correction, the cost of entry for 3D printing is a bit lower than you think. You can get a decent one that will make useable parts for around 180 USD. Of course you have to look at filament but it doesn’t cost very much for a kg roll and that will last you a long time even if you print a lot of stuff.
You can get an ender 3 for $100. I sold mine to a friend for $80 when I upgraded to a cr-10 v2 for $280.
but you need to put in a ton of effort, 3d printing is not an easy hobby, and i've printed quiet a lot
@@GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusket They’ve been working great for me. I’ve made plenty of things with surprising detail. One would be a razor crest at 1/64 scale.
@@GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusket They're more than decent. All the little odds and ends he was giving as an example of what use a normal person would have for a 3d printer work perfectly on small 1-200 dollar printers. Even for Prusa, the company that had the post he was discussion, which is a high end hobbyist company has their main FDM printer come in at under $1000.
Yeah I couldn’t be happier with my new $99 ender 3 pro. Resolution is great at .15 and I was brand new three months ago. It has been very easy to get the hang of for myself.
As a Honda owner this makes me disappointed in them, we need right to repair laws
That's what you get for being a fan boy.
@@bababooeymonkey6549 Why are you assuming that just because they own a Honda, that they're a fan boy? - it could be just that after doing some research, he found a Honda to be the best option at the time, and therefore purchased a Honda.
Don't be an idiot and make assumptions like that mate - it doesn't help anybody..
Louis, you are a beacon of light in this oncoming darkness of companies greed and stupidity trying to submiss all with a functioning mind into a state of paralysis out of fear of being punished.
You are right and they are wrong.
Shine on and thank you for taking this fight to the benefit of us all.
AMD nearly died and was not a real option for about a decade, and consumer grade computers stagnated.
As soon as AMD came back, suddenly Intel remembered how to advance, rather than just release the same CPU with a different model number.
Funny how that worked.
and Intel did it's damned hardest to keep AMD's head under water with all sorts of illegal behavior. Perhaps what makes AMD's story so good is the fact that Ryzen even had a chance to happen after all AMD had to endure. Settled on the court cases for pennies versus what they really had lost.
@@kidman2505 it was intel that killed amd the first time forsure, they had shady deals with oem's which pretty much forced amd back into the pits...the k8/k10 whooped intel back in the day and after that intel went to war lol
@@boogerfromthatmovie4257 that's the one
"AMD nearly died and was not a real option for about a decade" - Not only that. Those bastards from Intel have dragged both AMD and Cyrix through courts in the 90s just to force them out of business.
I’ve printed countless things on my simple 300 dollar 3d printer. I’ve also created many designs myself for simple problems. The idea that somehow the act of manufacturing a solution to a problem is wrong absolutely blows my mind.
its not far off from making say, your own bread.
I manufactured my own repair part, long before 3D printers were a thing. The knobs on our radiators in our military rooms were coming apart, and thus the radiators were putting out too much heat, because the broken knobs made it impossible to restrict the hot water flow. I looked at it, and all I needed was something that could push down some center stem. I went to the woodworking shop and built a piece-of-ugly-crap part, that did exactly what I needed it to. It repaired the knob and pushed down on that center stem. My roommate turned it too tight and broke it. No matter, it being wood, I easily glued it again together. I had my room's radiator fixed in a day or two, while other people waited weeks for the "professionals" to get around to it, having their windows open to get rid of excessive heat in the wintertime. Of course I built it out of wood, because wood is easy to shape. I wasn't trying to do art nor beautiful furniture, simply to build a functional part.
I also made a socket-hold bracket for my first computer out of a pocket knife and wooden popsicle stick.
@@miciso666 Maybe you ought to learn to adapt rather than depend on the hope and expectation that life will continue to go on, unchanging explicitly on your behalf.
If you actually read the article, or in the least listen to what's actually said in the video.. It has nothing to do with the actual 3D Printing of the object, but its about the BRANDING. Using the name Honda and/or Civic in reference to the part.
My father has always said that the Honda motorcycle workshop manuals are the best he's ever seen. So detailed. He restores/rebuilds old motorcycles and has been getting parts machined in small workshops for over 40 years. I recently modelled and printed a tank bag attachment component on a newer bike that he couldn't source. He was going to make it by hand and was blown away when I offered to build and print it for him. 😁
"Companies like Honda need to fight to survive, limiting competitors is a part of that fight."
Ugh, this sentiment bums me out... You could plant a double-agent CEO to sabotage the company from the internal top and it'd still probably take years to thoroughly kill a brand as big as Honda. The idea that they're fighting to merely survive is so fricken bonkers to me.
It's like battling someone for 1st place in mario kart while throwing all your shells at the players you're lapping... I struggle to understand people justifying this strangely shitty behavior.
When I hear this, Especially anything eluding to "limiting competition", major red flags go off in my head.. These individuals are working against themselves and also tend to be the type who get upset that these companies are so wealthy & powerful, don't understand how or why, and do not understand why that company doesn't care about them when they are finally the ones affected by something.. Then all the sudden its a huge, huge deal for them. Makes no sense..
"The idea that they're fighting to merely survive is so fricken bonkers to me." - Yeah, that's an idiotic argument pushed forward probably by one of their brain-dead lobbyists.
@@Syphious64 "major red flags go off in my head" - Actually anti-competitive behavior is illegal, even in the US.
@@CoolKoon Not if lobbying has anything to say about it. Throw enough money and you're bound to find a politician willing to jump into your pocket.
@@MediHusky Actually there's literally a law against it. And antitrust lawsuits have been initiated against companies that stifle competition too boldly. Just a single politician won't be enough.
We need to get things like these on bittorrent sites. Can't take them down and you don't have to worry about the insane lawsuits thrown out for things like movies
Let me know when there is a torrent available and I will seed.
@@conspiracyeyes1682 it's not difficult to make the torrent if you have the files you want to share
AMEN
I was thinking the same. Its to the point now that we need a pirate's bay for 3d models.
They should be covered under freedom of speech and art laws.
Thank you so much for your time, your energy, your knowledge and everything that goes into the cause. I hope you know how much people appreciate and care about you. Best wishes.
I’ve redesigned and made a NONEXISTENT available part (permanently on BackOrder for years) for my blender. 70cent print allows a $80 blender to work again (otherwise the blender is not usable )
This is censorship. If I measure a part to precision and make a cad file based on those measurments for 3D printing, that is called reverse engineering and it is 100% legal. This is EXACTLY how third party companies make OEM replacement components. I know because it is something I used to do for a living. The difference is that the average person doesn't have the legal resources to legally fight against large corporations.
Therefore, I think the only answer to the problem is a class action lawsuit. In the meantime, I suggest firing up the torrent sites and mirror files as much as possible to combat takedowns. We basically have to treat this like piracy even though it is not.
I have recently retired, but when I was young my father and I ran an autobody repair shop. Over time I became a big fan of Honda products and it was common for me to work on Honda Civics. I lived in the Canadian salt belt, so replacing front fenders, hoods, etc. was a regular part of my business. Customers would ask me to repair their rusted out fenders and I would try hard to convince them to buy new ones instead because they were so cheap to buy from Honda and they would last much longer. The price of Honda parts has increased greatly since then and I'm glad that I can buy third party replacement parts at a reasonable cost. I know that the 3rd party items are not from Honda and the quality may not be as good as the OEM part, but they are often good enough to meet my needs. Also, manufacturers often stop providing parts after several years and third party suppliers are the only option. I don't have a 3D printer, but I would happily print a small plastic item, or ask someone to do it for me, if I needed one. When I purchase something I should be able to do whatever I want to it.
The mentality of short-term profitability is invading the whole world. They want to make billions right from the first day. This may apply to IT or the new soft economy but it doesn't work with traditional economy of industry and agriculture. Skyrocketing spare parts prices are one of the aspects of quick money mentality. A car needs spare parts for 10 years. The profit should be divided over that period not over 6 months of launching. Stupidity in practice.
Your first mistake is thinking the traditional economy still exists. Tech giants like Facebook, Google and Microsoft has adjusted the tradition so people have no value, but their output does.
You only get meat once, but livestock feces is forever.
@@09f9 Good Lord just thinking about that idea *legitimately scares the crap out of me*
@@ubergreenguru5704 just don't go along with it.
As a person who routinely 3D prints things from the internet:
1. Please don’t set up your 3D printer in the kitchen. There are micro plastic ejections that happen during the extrusion process (depending on the material but PLA is the worst contributor)
2. In literally every single repository website you can see who uploads the the files. No one thinks when they download a Toyota from Newbsl43r69 that it is an official product from Toyota.
ABS is worse than PLA due to higher temps. It’s also not a problem if your room is aired properly.
I def need to move my printer. Gunna try to turn my "basement" into a little workshop, but i need to do some research into the sturdiest way to setup a bunch of shelving down there.
@@adondriel Prusa has a build you can do on the cheap with some plexiglass, a couple of ikea tables, and some printed hinges. I never did it personally, but I adapted the hinges to work with my own custom bench.
@@Nostradevus1 im thinking of doing some wall mounted bar-like shelving that would go around the room so that it's like a nice big U shape.
No one thinks when they download ANY files for 3d printing, NO MATTER THE CONTEXT, that it is an official product.
"There's no way in he** the part you just printed does not come from Honda" - You are correct, for now Louis. The future of home 3D printing is still pretty new, and there might be big changes ahead with actually manufacturer provided 3D models with DRM and the whole shebang as some kind of replacement for the spare parts procedure with manufacturing, transport, logistics and storing we have now. Maybe the whole spectacle we see now is companies covering up for that future possibility?
Well, he's speaking in terms of manufacture. It's physically impossible, obviously it's not manufactured by them. But yes, I agree with you. The first thought that entered my head was "But what if the FILE was from Honda?". Obviously that isn't the case, it isn't stolen property of course. But Honda could be looking into this and could very well already have 3d print files for many of their parts.
Honda seems to have adopted the "If You Can't Innovate, Litigate" mentality. These days they're nothing more than a mere shadow of their former selves.
That is almost all companies in the US. Look at how many times oil corporations have taken products that threaten their revenue out of the market by buying it out and destroying it. A lot of innovation and technological advancement has been destroyed multiple times setting society back from advancing.
This is absolutely correct-following in the footsteps of their new best friend, GM.
@@racineer No more like Nintendo.
"These days they're nothing more than a mere shadow of their former selves." - Yeah, going after 3D model makers is outright pathetic.
I had to replace a broken center console cup holder in a Hyundai and I was able to design the replacement in Fusion360 and 3D print it; the replacement is a better and stronger design than the original.
Right, there are a lot of flaws in first run manufacturing so they don't always get it right the first time and will create part revisions that the customer won't get. So kudos to you!
Louis, thank you for your work and activism! You are the force that blocks big tech from doing with their users whatever they want to.
The irony is that there is an entire subculture around customizing Honda Civics with aftermarket parts, which makes people buy Civics.
Fighting this doesn’t make sense for Honda or their dealers from a profitably perspective.
If you recall, they totally shunned the tuner community at the turn of the century, at least in the U.S. Honda is not new to disowning its loyal fanbase.
@@racineer honda has an absolutely awful lineup in the states and they killed off their last classic styled honda when they killed the FIT. Not sure why anyone would buy a honda of any kind given how awful Honda North America is.
@@faustian. Repairability ain't what it used to be. Maintenance is also quite a bit more expensive in certain areas. For instance, compare the cost of changing transmission fluid on a Pilot with the old 5 or 6 speed automatic vs the ZF 9HP all the new ones and high trim models since 2016 use. The old ones use the same old DW-1 that most Hondas use. Common and fairly cheap. The 9 speeds use that 3.1 crap that's $50/quart. There's also the fact that the oil dilution issue on the 1.5Ts isn't truly resolved (pretty much all direct injected engines will suffer oil dilution, but the 1.5s have comical amounts of it). Shame since I really want to like the engine. If I had one, it would get 3k oil changes no matter ehat
Agree with everything you said Louis, the only thing I would like to clarify is that there are several 3d printers that don't even cost half a thousand dollars and still work flawlessly. I got an Ender 3 Pro printer years ago, zero issues with it and it cost around $300, regular ones now are under $200, so they are extremely affordable.
was going to say the same thing. My Flash Forge was like 350 and it works great
Paid $99 for my ender 3 pro few months ago. They are getting incredibly cheap.
Yeah I have 3 FDMs and two Resin printers all in barely over $1000 with parts that I've upgraded on them. Its so affordable now.
Am a 3D designer and somebody who belongs to the 3D printing community & i support whatever Louis said in this video, I appreciate this man making use of his reach to make a difference in the society in a possitive way, salute to you dude 🫡
"You wouldn't download a CAR?"
This is the thing they fear the most.
Over Easter, I talked to my cousin who's an engineer in the auto industry. We're entering into a paradigm shift where auto manufacturers are pivoting to thinking that in the future, there's going to more value in the software than in the hardware for automobiles - watch out - some day in the not too distant future you may not be allowed to "own" the software on your car and may have to pay subscription fees just to run your car.
@@hosstbl1 'not to distant future'?
Dude, future is already here. When you have to pay a sub to unlock features on your car?
Like...brakes?
@@hosstbl1 Tesla...
@@AC3handle there's a motorcycle jacket airbag brand that makes you pay a monthly fee to unlock the airbag feature or just pay double the price of the jacket and get it "unlocked" for you
I find this disgusting from Honda.
I actually own a few 3D printers built by me and I could already repair a lot of broken things with the help of 3D printers. Furthermore I have designed and built quite a lot of things with 3D printing to be able to avoid buying super expnesive tools/gadgets and just made my own for a fraction of the price of an original one.
3D printing is just amazing and I believe that it helps Right to Repair!
Thank you for recognizing people like me, I actually have been living under a rock for the past 15 years, I built the rock with my 3d printer in 2007...
If you are willing to put in the effort, pain and time you can get functional 3d printers cheap in the range of 300-700$ that can pay for themselves over time with all the functional prints and replacement parts you can print yourself. A manufacturer issuing a takedown request when the print files do not hurt their profits in any realistic way is just pure bs.
Only inch I'll give them, maybe... is if the part includes a copyrighted logo on it that is not integral to the design of the part. i.e a washer cap replacement part you can omit the honda logo on vs a replacement for a broken Honda emblem.
My ender 3 pro hasn't been a pain in the ass tbh, assembling it took about 45 minutes and I printed my first benchy within 4 hours of having it delivered. With some upgrade purchases and first spool of PLA, $350. I use it regularly to make replacement parts for all sorts of things, usually having the part ready within a few hours - faster and cheaper than getting it shipped.
In the mid-90s I owned an approximately 12-year-old Honda Accord that began to develop an intermittent starter motor malfunction. I removed the starter, disassembled it on the bench and discovered that the solenoid plunger which Incorporated a contact ring to energize the starter motor itself had an area that was burnt and pitted which was causing the malfunction. I called the local Honda dealer to buy a replacement plunger. I was told "We don't sell that part separately you'll have to buy a complete starter for $165". I laughed in the parts department person's ear and hung up the phone, I then dialed a local specialty shop that dealt in automotive starters and alternators and asked them about the part. They said "Sure we have them in stock". I drove the car there removed the starter in the parking lot, handed it to the technician inside, he replaced the bad solenoid plunger, and charged me the outrageous fee of $20 parts and labor. I reinstalled the starter and drove away, I never had another problem with it.
Too bad most ppl arnt that smart or ambitious! I've not had one rebuilt, but i guess I could have. I just went off to the junkyard instead for replacement or parts.
Too often it's the terminal that breaks off when you try to remove the wires.
Yes I would consider myself an expert "cheapskate" not in the sense of being actually cheap but being very frugal... I was explaining to a friend of mine that sometimes it's not important what you are purchasing... but what you are purchasing it for.
All sorts of examples for this but if you like magic eraser sponges that are super overpriced then pick you up some melamine foam.
Another example would be MTD mower parts depending on the brand there can be variation in the price but the same exact part.
@@dankline9162 if the part hadn't been available from the specialty shop, the local salvage yard would have been my next stop
I’m looking into getting a new car this summer, Honda is right out of the running. I know that my purchase would have been the equivalent of a penny to them but I’m not giving my penny to a company that treats people like this.
Since Honda labels part numbers for each of their parts, they should’ve asked Honda for the specific part numbers they claim to be copyrighting from. If it’s different than the Honda part in any way shape or form, how can they claim it’s their part? There’s no way a printed part would be identical to a Honda genuine part. This is just one of the few arguments against their case that came to mind
Yeah, if Prusa's lawyers knew what they were doing or didn't immediately bend over for Honda
You are correct.
Hell often times a third party item is better designed than what the engineers did. since people use the cars everyday they can see how some things can be improved.
There are third party manufacturers making all sorts of parts for cars, tyres, brakes, bulbs for lights, shockers, windscreens, wipers, oil filters, fuel filters, air filters, the list is endless. 3D printers are your own property and so is your car. I don't see how Honda can interfere with a computer file enabling you to print something that you own, say a broken cup holder, you own that cup holder, you bought it, YOU OWN IT!!!!! Just because someone shows you how to fix your problem, how can a company tell you that you can't? Obviously, they are nit-picking about the wording.
OK, so I own a Karcher steam cleaner, I purchased some cloths that fit the mop-head that were approx. half the price (Chinese. of course), but which were almost identical. The only difference was the tab, it didn't say Karcher on it. No difference in how they cleaned or after I cleaned the cloths after using them. Cloned, probably, so why should cloning a cup holder make a difference? Because they would have a hard time suing a Chinese company. Done deal.
P.S. There are files out there that enable you to 3D print a 3D printer, lol.
About every twelve months the grubby lobbyists in Australia known as “The FCAI” pay for a campaign where they claim only genuine wheels, brake pads, oil (oil FFS) and wiper blades are “safe” for their members vehicles. The biggest donor is Toyota Australia. Toyota do not make or sell HiLux tow bars or bull bars. At best they are Hayman Rees or ARB with a Toyota sticker on them. Same deal for utility trays. The suspension dampers are typically KYB and they barely last 20,000 kms.
Nobody is calling out the FCAI on this false advertising because there is no “product” and no “seller”. FCAI are still pretty close to the coal and gas industries in terms of being grubby anti consumer lobbyists
So true! Definitely inappropriate. Please keep doing what you do!! Thank you!
I have to fix my own vehicles frequently, I don't have the luxury of relying on dealer networks to save my ass. I live in a town with 2 corner stores and nothing else, lots of people out this way are relying heavily on delivery services like UPS and Fedex to deliver pretty much every conceivable good.
I just picked up a shipment of motorcycle parts for a job I have to do today.
i do the same but because i dont trust dealers as far as i can throw em,
@@draconightwalker4964 I understand that but i live over an hour from the nearest dealer, so whether I want to or not i'm the guy that fixes stuff when it breaks.
Wasn’t that long ago, companies were trying to kill 3d printing for these same reasons. IP theft, safety/security etc. even for stuff that is literally impossible to get anymore and they won’t provide. Ive kept a bunch of stuff working because I was able to print a tiny little piece that the only way I would be able to get was to buy a whole new thing and scrap the “broken” one.
My favorite were the sensational articles about 3D printing guns, like it was going to be the end of civilization as we knew it and the wild west was going to come back. We have guns EVERYWHERE in the US, 3D printing a horrible 1-2 times use gun is NOTHING.
Didn't certain giant greedy corporations cry a legal river when blank cassette tapes, and blank VHS tapes became available? "Nobody will buy our over-priced, over-rated stuff anymore. Waah! Waah!" Then they turned around and made $billions off of sales of prerecorded tapes. What a bunch of pathetic filthy-rich crybabies. How long until they realize that "The customer is -always- usually right", might actually mean that companies ought to cater more towards what customers want?
@@anastasiacline6159 Please never tell anyone that you ever had a canon printer!
You can print anything you want for personal use. Just don't sell them or provide the means to do so. Then you're free an clear. Do it for financial gain or provide commercially - depriving people of income, you have now entered a sticky wicket.
You hit the nail on the head right there. It's about eliminating any form of competition. How long before RUclipsrs get shutdown for disseminating instructions on repairing things? Where does it end?
I still love how Raleigh changed their website, literally right after you called them out. You're doing God's work, Louis!
Our library actually bought a dozen 3D printers and allows people to sign out time on them and simply pay for the material used. I thought that was great and went to try it; I wondered why there weren’t more people using them as it was quite easy to find a time. Then I understood as you can only print items in the library’s database, which isn’t very large, and they don’t allow you to being in a file to print. After seeing that I understood why it was so easy to find a time because you couldn’t really print anything you’d need. When I asked about the limit they said it was for SAFETY because you could print a gun that could go through a metal detector, WOW; they did say you could apply for approval for a print but that it could take months to approve as it would have to go in front of the board. When I asked how many things they’ve approved I was told none; they’ve GAF the printers for almost 3 years now.
GAF?
Try a local makerspace instead, the whole gun and safety argument is stupid xD
@@wesss9353: had, not sure what spell check was thinking.
That's a load of horseshit, any gun that's gonna shot more than 1 round is gonna require metal parts, and no criminal is gonna spends hours or days to learn, print, and reprint to get a solid print. Not when they can just buy a stolen one or steal one.
3d printer is for decentralization of manufacturing. Nobody gonna follow up BS beuocracy just to print a benchy stoopid
The DIY community also needs to be aware of industry sensitivity to the way 3D printed parts are described and be proactive in their choice of words. If DIYers remove all the low hanging fruit i.e (Honda cup holder) and replace them with (cup holder for your Honda) then industry will have to make obvious even blatant attempts to stop right to repair.
As a loyal Honda fan, I would shame Honda for following this anti-consumer trend that most companies seem to be following these days. I hope Toyota doesn’t follow Honda’s path in terms of right to repair.
Well, I've got bad news about Toyota too:
ruclips.net/video/3MXgnecxVeU/видео.html
Toyota already lost me with the subscription for remote start. Not that I need a modern vehicle when my 2006 Ridgeline still works.
Prusa is the one being anti-consumer. They decided to delete everything, not Honda's lawyers. Other repositories haven't deleted everything, they are refusing to release the document despite no NDA and they're making a huge fuss about it.
This is a huge publicity stunt by Prusa to anger us at our expense. Prusa should not be allowed to get away with this.
They all will in time. They are nothing but greedy corporations. Corporations aren't people.
@@NickDalzell same! I’m sticking with my 2007 Honda Civic EX.
Damn I’ve always loved my Hondas but they are moving their way into the “I’m never gonna buy something new from you again” stage quickly lol
Really starting to irritate the hell out of me how every one of these companies Carry’s themselves like EA
Thank you for continuing to hold companies accountable and keeping the fight going
A Japanese company being greedy and anti consumer? Color me shocked. Nintendo sent their regards.
Shrewdest businessmen in the land.
Japanese have some of the worst corporations in the world. They can be sometimes not be total douchebags like Sony with some of their products
Im all for IP, but if you think someone printing a 3D printed part on hobby level printers is going to threaten the quality and market of your professional engineered and quality tested parts for your specific IP
You should not be running a company.
Intellectual property is a farce.
Yeah Louis, keep it up dude. Just maybe this snowball effect will roll big enough to get all of us involved. You motivate me. Nothing motivates quite like hearing your autonomy is being undermined and the very fabric of your individuality is being threatened all around you. It hits somewhere deep in your core. Brings out the revolutionary in all of us honestly. Keep it up man. Your honesty and boldness speak volumes
Totally agree with you. Besides, the argument "limiting competitors is a part of that fight" is total crap. It's the opposite of a healthy market, where competition is the base of progress and development. In this case, you don't limit competitors, you do better stuff than them. You dont' win a race by pulling the shirt of your opponent, but running faster or playing better than him...
I can't see how this would hold up in court. If it was, then any company making aftermarket parts would be screwed.
Do you know if after market part makers are paying any licencing fees to the car companies?
It wouldn't. The aftermarket parts industry is prior art exhibit A.
@@karolstopinski8350 Absolutely not.
I believe this was specifically a DMCA takedown, according to its legal rules. Now a rebuttal can be filed with the one who requested the takedown, with the result of possibly getting served with a lawsuit.
At the least I'd be careful what I rebutted -- that it's a generic part with no logo and that it doesn't call itself a "Honda part." And I'd get a well versed IP lawyer to draft it, who can cite chapter and verse on covering case law and/or statute.
@@karolstopinski8350 99% time no. It's why after market parts usually do not fit as good or look as good as OE parts.
There is a way around Honda telling anyone what they can and can't 3D print, buy a scanner that makes files for your 3D printer, scan the piece you need and make your own file. You avoid any of the problems stated. Just a thougnt. Thanks for the video and keep up the good fight.
I think this has less to do with "control over competition" and more to do with "indiscriminate IP protection from the point of un-informed morons". Let me explain...
I once had an auto-repair business. I specialized in Mercedes, BMW and VW/Audi. I quickly learned - through legal threats from their legal departments - that I could not use their logos, color schemes, nor even an ink pen with their official logos on it in any way within my business. In fact.. I had purchased some legal "fan gear" from BMW directly (a hat and t-shirt) and learned that their legal department had sent someone to take pictures of me in a BMW t-shirt and used that as legal proof that I had "violated their IP".
VW/Audi will not even let you use a vague outline that represents a VW beetle (or any of their vehicles for that matter) in any of your brochures, signage, etc.
Now, this is not a 3D-printed file, granted. But it shows that - most auto manufacturers have (literal) armies of lawyers who are paid to do absolutely NOTHING but crawl the internet full-time and find anyone who references or mentions their clients IP in even the most vague of ways. Their response is not to understand, but just send out the typical canned response - which typically includes language of "we will require forfeiture of 50% all profits you earned on this product/service/etc".. Rather than argue - most people just take the shit down.
Ask me how I know.
When all 3 (Mercedes, BMW, and VW/Audi) all said they demanded "50% of all profits earned", I copied each of the 3 lawyers the other 2's responses and said you all are going to have to fight over this 50%, because the most I can give is 100%. Thankfully, all 3 dropped the demand (and said they only enforce that on the "big guys who really violate on large-scale", but the point remains - they can be ruthless.
And this was all because I had some personal clothing, ink pens, a wall clock and a shop stool with the various car-makers brands on it. Even though my signage was clear: independent repair. Also keep in mind: this was personal stuff that was NOT for sale which I personally purchased through licensed merchandise channels (including the dealerships).
Have you ever tried arguing with a fucking lawyer? They are a breed of people who truly feel they are never wrong. Want to see some of the best arguments? Watch when two lawyers get into a damn argument. Priceless.
In about 1969 independent VW repair shop was going to be sued. If he did not remove all VW logos etc, etc. The word has only gotten worse. Local dealership had a very bad reputation.
Yup. This has _nothing_ to do with right to repair. All of those models can still be posted... just not being represented as Honda parts. If Honda does not say something, it then works against them in protecting their trademark down the road. Rossman knows this but chooses to try to get people to think this is about right of repair.
@@ToddCopeland Rossman has lost his way. He had valid points, now it's just a rant.
The purpose of ip law, historically and sociologically speaking, is to encourage creative output by creating a synthetic piece of property to own. The problem, at root, is that the capital class has perverted ip law into something that protects capital rather than something that encourages creativity.
The thing with capitalism is that everything that has any connection to capital, will be exploited to protect it or gain more of it, or deprive an adversary of it.
@@Gogglesofkrome you can't modify software as you see fit. That's what the DMCA is all about.
Taking things apart and finding out how they work and then repairing them or even trying remaking them is the reason I became an electrical engineer. These companies are starting to realize that home manufacturing is becoming more effective at a larger scale, but making a full car, or a full motherboard for your PC is still very difficult at home. Why they cannot work together to build a stronger relationship with their customers and keep customers longer is beyond me.
How can they actually enforce this if a company like Dorman creates heaps of aftermarket parts for Honda's? They don't market them as Honda parts though.
I imagine those companies pay for the right to make what was once a dealer only item or wait long enough for whatever protection the part had to run out. Also, don't buy that crap if you can avoid it. Some of their parts are ok, most from my professional experience, are trash. I just tried to install a shift cable from them, it would allow the transmission to go into 5 of the 6 options on the column. I used half of the new one and half of the old one to make it work.
@@--_DJ_-- I’ve probably installed thousands of Dorman parts over the years. Haven’t had a bit of trouble with any of them. I realize this does not match your single experience but do understand that they can make a bad part just as easily and the oem.
They don't sell parts in my neck of the woods, but it was the first example I could think of. I've heard some less than favourable reviews, but have no opinion on them. I did try to find any reference to them paying the original producer of the parts, but have failed to find any info that confirms that as yet.
@@jaapatedijkstra dorman is sold at basically all the major auto shops, your autozones, O'Reilly's,napa etc, they do sell them near you if you live in the us, if you have auto parts store near you you have access to dorman
Okay, I've found that structural aftermarket parts need to be certified by the certified automotive parts association and cosmetic aftermarket parts don't need certification. Still no mention of any fees or licenses paid to the OEM.
Spot on. It's anti-competitive.
Honda has long abandoned the customers.
Honda makes great products but it has played dirty for years.
Honda has been caught sending saboteurs into their competitors factories and boardrooms.
They have never played fair in the industry and this is no exception.
@Garth Macdonald Yeah that new Integra is a slap in the face for Honda fans.
You sir are a hero and please please continue this fight I will be donating money to the cause and I hope more people will as well.
I have replaced two Honda washer fluid caps for my various Hondas. The last one shipped from in a box about 20 times bigger than needed, was in a single use plastic bag with single use plastic air packaging and had been made in China. The carbon footprint of that washer fluid cap was obscene. If I could have 3d printed one I would have. Better, I would have GLADLY sent Honda the $1 they would have made selling me an OEM cap.
I get what you're saying but knock offs don't need to pay off the oem. Why should you be forced to?
@@dosmastrify Oh I have no doubt my cap was a knock off. The point is that Honda missed a golden opportunity to become the hero instead of the villain. Embrace the maker movement as a "green" initiative and have "Honda Certified" files available for a very small fee - like $1 (By having a fee you can show actual damages and protect your IP). You advertise it as being consumer friendly and good for the environment knowing full well that 99% of the people will still buy it the traditional way. Instead of having Louis and others making videos saying "F Honda!" they will be saying "Good Guy Honda". The earned media/PR will be worth 10x what Honda would have made off the miniscule number of parts they wont ship. Further you can justifiably claim some parts re NOT appropriate for makers for safety reasons. As an example, some of the plastic near air bags need to be made to either stay in place or break in a way that is safe in an accident. And obviously anything structural would be bad to have people making on their own.
Overall Honda screwed the pooch on this and that makes me sad because I own 4 Hondas right now and have owned nothing but Hondas for over 40 years.
They only care about 'green' when it makes them more money. Pushing for EVs is only a thing because it encourages you to buy a new car and they can get a lot of data from the car
If you get a plastic line extruder too, you can recycle your own plastic garbage!
Honda threatens the consumer 3D printing community, meanwhile FORD is like "Here's the CAD! Have fun"!
I didn't know that! I've been learning mechanics and body work at a small used car dealership that buys their cars from insurance auctions, so always damaged on arrival. The quality of late-model Ford/Lincoln/Mercury vehicles and low cost of parts and high availability has impressed the owner; this new-to-me (and, I'm sure, him) information could be really handy for some things that just aren't available, like the little plastic retention pins that hold body panels, or air louvers, or even the little plastic bits that retain door switches! Or things that are harder to find lately, like fluid-caps.
Got a link?
Keep pressing dude. We need you in this fight, the other side is very powerful. There are precious few champions on the side of the people.
As a honda employee I disappointed but not surprised that they would do it. The upper management of the company got all the normal greed and disregard for everyday people.
That's counter to the old Honda of the 90s/early 00s that was super friendly towards aftermarket
@@Mike-jv8bv You're looking back with rose-colored glasses-they wanted *nothing* to do with the tuner community back in the day.
I agree with you on the issue, but I understand that the law and legal liability doesn’t always make sense. This subject also deeply affects me because I own a Honda and work on my own Honda with almost exclusively aftermarket parts
what Lewis is missing is that even the slightest impression that the design work was done by Honda or was approved by Honda may also affect trademark and the appearance of their company so when you put something like that up you need to state it's origin is not Honda and that it is designed independently to fit a Honda and modified the design slightly if at all possible so is not to match a patent maybe even that is not enough. yep big pain in the a$$ just like copyright that last 100years, here's Hoping Florida public domains the mouse😮 lol 😅
@@allenfunstuff don't care. Fuck Honda.
The point of right to repair is really that the laws needs to be changed.
@@hitch4526 haven't you noticed laws do not deal with obvious plus most laws were written before the fact based on something that happened that may no longer be even valid it's how you word it Xerox had a big fight a long time ago when they almost lost their trademark because every copy was being called a Xerox not a copy common speech cannot be a trademark and laws often don't make sense they are still unfortunately the law often written by people of questionable character and not to help you but to help whoever paid to get them elected.
@@hitch4526 the point is that if you don't want any chance of google saying anything to you as the law currently allows "phone case for google pixel 6 pro" rather than "google pixel 6 pro case"
Louis, you are crazy wise man! The way you articulate the point and explain this so well.
What shocks me isn't that Honda would attempt this, but that so many people support this and are in favor of it.
They forgot themselves man
What about all the crappy aftermarket parts sold on EBay and Amazon? If Honda is allowing bad fitting parts to be sold for their cars, then they only care about money. Keep up the good fight Louis.
Those are largely from China where Honda has no legal authority at all. They are trying to fight this battle domestically where their lawyers have teeth. But the arguments they are making are, none the less, retarded.
Louis, you as always very informative. I totally promote your position, and everything you said about Honda doing this stuff is true. I will support independent techs, specially if they can provide me with quality services or parts that I ca not otherwise find from brand name companies. And many times, they are better than the original. A friend of mine got a metal part for a BMW manifold that BMW was making in plastic. Now, that BMW is working not only better, but will last longer with no excessive and expensive repair costs. Thanks again for your video!!!!!
Couldn't this be solved by way of a very simple disclaimer stating that the 3d file was not generated by Honda, has nothing to do with Honda, and should be used only at the user's own risk? Or is Honda going farther than that?
I completely agree, and I was looking exactly for this comment and another similar one mentioning safety. I think this discussion is more about Honda not being liable for a product they didn't produce, and not about impinging on the DIY-er.
I can only upvote your comment once, so I'm hoping others do the same, to address this issue.
@@BitterCurrant I think Lois is wrong, on this one. Honda's doing nothing wrong.
@@dizzywow why?
Youre wrong on this, Honda is wrong.
I just supplied every bit of argument you did.
Doubt you watched the whole thing
Yes.
Got my ender 3 for like 160 in 2020. If you’re a tinkerer, I’d highly suggest getting a printer. It’s a very rewarding learning experience and upgrading your printer can be just as fun as upgrading a car, computer, or anything else.
Holy crap the quality of your videos have increased at an insane level. Excellent job bro.
Like some suggest in the comments I think the whole 3D printing is something a lot of companies want to prevent from happening.
Makes you wonder if that's why the whole "ghost gun" thing is a hot topic issue all of a sudden. Might be an easy excuse for corporations to regulate the shit out of 3d printers and paint them As some kind of threat to society.
Too late for them. This is in the fabric of society now.
@@kipter That is part of it yes.
noone would bother with reverse engineering if the part would be available at a reasonable price, but i guess you don't find that at a low price even tho the manufacturing price is pennies. Like let's say for a bumper clips, OEM one is 2-3$, on chine is like 5 pennies... now you see the issue? same clip different prices
check out the ford maverick 3D printed accessories, I am not a ford fan but the maverick is a perfectly executed vehicle in so many ways.
As a Honda owner and a 3d printer I thank you.
I've seen this article 2 days ago, and immediately thought about you! I can immagine your reaction to this article... I've also noted 2 important informations in the article: The action come from Honda Europe while Honda US doesn't seems to adhere. Also, the article mentions a case were Honda stopped selling some parts, and still ask to remove the 3D model...
Give it another ten years. We'll all have 3D printers and nothing can stop us from making anything. This is good. If I can make a cheap gas cap for a few bucks, my automaker can no longer sell an official gas cap for $200. They'll have to offer it at a fair price if they want to sell it at all, even if they ask $50 for it. I'd pay $50 for an OE cap, but stop asking $100+ just to have a logo on it.
you can actually get printers for as low as 150, tho id go with something 250-300, like the ender 3 or 2 models. really good wquality, can even make thoes second amendment thingies with a bit of reaserch
@@kirill2525 Yes, I have two printers myself, a elegoo mars 1(updated firmware to the pro) and the artillery sidewinder x1 v4. the mars cost me like 250-300 I want to say when i bought it, and the artillery cost me 350 I think. they both work pretty well and can print wonderfully even if I have not laser dialed in my settings
@@kirill2525 even better than that... Up until last week, you could get an Ender 3 for $99 at MicroCenter
Unless they embed an RFID chip in the cap so that your car can't clear the evap leak code to turn off the CEL.
@@byron7165 I laughed at this, but it's actually scary that some twerp at an automaker may try this.
Remember when a father and son can build a car? Honda and similar anti-repair companies are killing an age old American tradition.
Thank you for bring this ongoing crap to light, we need to push back!
Louis, when you say "America is based on competition" I believe what you mean is "American capitalism has historically been dependent on competition." However, over the last 70+ years, competition has waned as companies have fought against efforts to curb antitrust, and plutocracy and limiting consumer choice and power. Right to repair is an effort to take back some of that power, and I commend you on your efforts to bring consumers into the light.
Governments have allowed monolithic companies to exist. At one time there were at least 10 tractor manufacturers and due to takeovers and buyouts we're down to 3 or 4. Food is probably the worst for this where at this moment 4 monolitic companies control 98% of North American food companies. This has severely limited the variety in supermarkets. There were popular items in the supermarkets 20 years ago that you can't find _anywhere_ anymore. These monoliths have made things cheaper to make, more expensive to buy, and in a lot of cases impossible to find.
it's my plastic, it's my machine, it's my design, it's my computer... I can reverse engineer whatever I want. If they don't wanna produce spare parts cheaper, thats on them
Your understanding and opinions are in sync with mine, Louis. Soon would be a good time for the citizens of the world(s) to establish a full scale decentralized blockchain repository of data (3D models incl.). A repo that is immune to Economic Warfare from that legal mob and their employers.
Great video! I have one nitpick, 3D printers aren’t always thousands of dollars anymore, you can get a pretty capable one for as low as $99 on sale! (Ender 3 Pro at MicroCenter)
Another reason NOT to buy "new" ANYTHING ! I appreciate your videos, the more tech the more you will see this crap happening ! I am an old man but I still have dollars to spend I despise all things apple & John Deere is overpriced crap (just two examples) I vote with my dollars. If I am about to buy something that should be repairable by the user (purchaser) and the company stands in the way, my dollars will go elsewhere! Even if the item is not in favor with all the reviewers!
We have no choice but to create the fund and to stand up! GREAT VIDEO
Ah yes. Honda, the company that sells OEM motorcycle parts, removed from their box and removed the instructions, places them in a stapled closed plastic bag. And multiplies the public OEM price by 5.
This reminds of the engineers at work that keep their code and designs to themselves and refuse to let anyone in on the work they are doing for job security. I teach new hires everything because I know at some point I’ll need help, they may have novel approaches, and most of all I’m not afraid for my job because I know I bring a level of quality that people appreciate and not many can replicate. Honda and other companies should have some faith in the quality, fit and finish that original parts provide.
Whenever I see someone hoarding information like that, I automatically assume that they're incompetent.
Truly skilled workers and professionals don't need to use these cheap tricks to stay employed.
If Honda can't make better cars and equipment than other companies, then they don't deserve to survive. Just like the engineers you mentioned don't deserve to be employed.
Great video one tiny issue with it. 3-D printers can start at $99 and go all the way up to hundreds of thousands of dollars for professional printers. The averages of most consumer sooner printers range between $99-$2000 while the most common successful printers are $200 USD to $750 USD.
Honestly this action is the exact opposite of what the spirit of Honda used to be. It's quite sad to attack people who are probably enthusiasts of their vehicles. 😕
THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS. As a guy that wrenched on my fair share of B series engines, helped others do swaps, and so on. To see Honda who used to be so proud of their enthusiasts, only to then later start clamping down on the very thing that made them so popular to begin with. Amazing.
@@kidman2505 Yeah. Look at Mugen. It started out as an enthusiast that Honda decided to fund.
@@SI0AX preciesely, mugen, nismo, mopar, etc.
@@SI0AX preciesely, mugen, nismo, mopar, etc.
@@SI0AX I'm literally putting an ecoboost engine in my 02 ranger, because Ford Performance sells the whole kit, control module and all. My truck will be on the road another decade, and with a nice 8 speed transmission.