Bench Testing A Failing Starter
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- In this video I was testing Ms.Marie's car that seemed to have an intermittent starting issues.I was unable to perform conventional in vehicle tests that I would normally do because of the location of this starter in her car. I suspected there was a brush problem so I decided to test it just like I would any other DC motor. With a scope! -Enjoy!!
If an SMA Video has helped you out please consider giving using "Patreon" to help support us. The videos take real time to create and pull us away from real work that pays our bills. CLICK HERE: / southmainauto
THANKS A MILLION!!
--Eric O.
If you don't like Patreon feel free to use the "PayPal Me" link: www.paypal.me/...
The South Main Auto Amazon Store: www.amazon.com...
AES Wave Automotive Diagnostic Tools: www.aeswave.co...
WANT AN "SMA" STICKER OF YOUR OWN!?!
Simply send and E-mail to SMAstickers@outlook.com including: your shipping address and e-mail address in the text, I in turn will send you a Paypal invoice for $5 each USA or $6 each international. Let me know how many you want and as soon as the Paypal invoice is paid I will ship them out ASAP! Thanks for your support of our channel!!
--Eric & Vanessa O.
Feel like sending some swag to SMA because you love the videos but don't know where to send it?
Just ship it here:
South Main Auto Repair
47 S. Main St
PO Box 471
Avoca, NY 14809
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of South Main Auto Repair, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. South Main Auto Repair assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. South Main Auto Repair recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of South Main Auto Repair, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not South Main Auto Repair LLC.
I’ve never thought of checking the amperage while bench testing a starter! That’s brilliant!
He would have run the same test with it still on the car if he had been able to access the terminals, etc. However, when installed, the terminals are in an inaccessible location. So to do that kind of test it is necessary to remove it from the car and bench test it. He still would have reached the same conclusion: junk starter. He still would have had to remove it to install the new starter. He did say he had already heard the starter "hum" when it occasionally failed to turn over while still on the car. He was going with what he already knew, from experience, would be the outcome.
What? No phone ringing? No air compressor? No brake cleaner? I'm outta here! :)
And no thumbs down lol
And no door bell...
... and no air raid siren
tacocon : Around here it’s a tornado siren except on Wednesday at 1pm if the sun is out, then it’s a weekly test .
Bring back the interruptions & noise or I'm cancelling my subscription! Sorry - just kidding.... Love your vids Eric!
I love that you took the time to scope the amperage on the bad starter and new starter both. It's the best visual for sure 👍👍
Excellent video. I like that you can see the results on the Pico.
All cars should come with starters that have hammer-tapping accessibility.
agreed..i drove a whole summer with my hammer in an old dakota years back...nothing better on a date then crawling under and giving it a whack while she sits there and rolls her eyes..i remember the tight on cash days lol
Better yet the ECM module should be able to "see the noise and dropouts" on the starter motor and throw a starter motor defective code. Or even better still the car companies should build a better starter for $1.50 more use better brushes and commutator material designed to last the life of the car.
Rob C what about brushless starters? Just like tool motors. Longer life, less power consumption, more power.
@@robc8468 usually oem starters do last along time though....ive had plenty of 100k mile used trucks that still had what looked like originals.
@@k9under Hand cranking today's engines would really be hard!
Very well explained and shown . 👍
Dr. O takes us for a high torque spin without giving us the brush off..a great start to the week!👍
I see what you did there. You should not give up your day job to write jokes.
I have been watching your channel for about a year now. Taking what I learned from you, I was able to diagnose my elderly father's 2000 Explorer with a misfire.
I started with the plug and got no spark. Tested at the distributor and had spark. Spark plug wire was broken in two. New wires and he's back on the road.
Thank you Mr. O. If it wasn't for your videos, my parents would be down to one car. They didn't have the money for a shop to repair it. 30 minutes of my Saturday was all it cost them. :-)
The scope doesn't lie. Thanks again for another fine video, Eric!
no, I believe it told you... my truck told me yesterday "I'm gonna need about tree-fiddy!" as both rear brake calipers, pads, rotors, and a seal in the front diff were needed.
Most educational Mr. O. This is definitely an excellent tool for the toolbox.
That was the BEST test of a starter!! I've got to get a scope mode sumptine!! Carried a scope for 42 years and NOW I need one!! Original had a green screen and had to turn the lights out in the room to see it!
That sounds like my scope. I could use something more modern too. I feel like I'm in a 50's sci-fi movie when I use it.
Where can I get my "Not a Sponsor" t-shirt ?
They are right next to the "There's your problem, lady!" shirts.
Nice. We used to spin a dc motor with a DVM reading resistance, looking for dead spots. The pico does a great job giving a graphical output. Thx Eric O.
J Cirafic can you please elaborate your method?
@@jayasanka5978 if you spin a dc motor while reading resistance, the resistance jumps up, then goes back down when it stops spinning. If it stays high, you found a dead spot.
You go out of your way to explain & show us what you do and why you do it. Can't get enough of your videos.
Love how you test and actually diagnose the problem instead of just swapping parts and hope it fixes the prob like most lazy mechanics, you good mechanic, keep up the good honest work 👍
After working on numerous motors over the years, I could hear that bad starter having brush problems.
In fact, the sound was exactly like my old shop vac made when the brushes failed in it.
Love the visual test on the scope.
As soon as I saw the waveform from the old starter, I thought, “Wow, that looks nasty!” The new starter even sounded better before I saw the waveform. Great to see a such a graphic example of a worn starter! I’m sure Miss Marie will be pleased too.......🤘
Perfect vid of how to doom a starter the right way! Thanks for another great video!!!!!!!
Great video, I have had to fight with the clerk at advance auto over a new starter going out in 30 days because it would work on the bench, but not on the car, finally got a swap and it's been working on 3 years now !!!! Thanks for the video.
Had the same struggle with an independent parts store some years ago. I took two of them back from my Bronco. He claimed there was nothing wrong, must be my battery.
I told him my OLD starter worked OK but it now had a cracked drive gear. I didn't think there was an electrical problem.
His THIRD started worked OK, BTW.
Great video! I just removed the starter from my wife's 2013 Civic and it tested "dead as a door nail". I figured it was a starter problem, but with the help of your video, I was able to confirm it. It was a bear to replace, but I got the new one in and it's working fine now. Thanks again!
Very nice work. But man it would be good to see the brushes and their springs and the state of the commutator !!!
Yeah, let's rip those babies out and have a look-see. We come her for entertainment, not education!!
had a old dakota did same thing years ago...drove me crazy for months. would be fine for days even weeks then it would act up...hammer tap and was good to go. i thought starter would either work or not..never knew they could slowly die like this back then...keep these coming eric..awesome
Back to what we love most about SMA! True testing, not guessing when it comes to parts replacement. Seems like the DIYer needs to get an inexpensive oscilloscope to do this test at home.
I love how you show your methods, So much better than just throwing parts at a problem and praying.
Wow. It's great how the technology can test the old starter and knowing it was failing. I always used my ears and I could tell it was starting to go bad. I would just wait for it to fail. This is so much better, especially for someone that is not car savvy and needs their car for work. Thanks for sharing
I’ve had the exact same problem on a civic. Intermittent slow/no crank. It was a auto parts store starter I had replaced already and because it passed their “bench test”, they tried to make me buy another another one. Wish I had a scope that day. Good idea proving your diagnosis that way
Thank you for your video and sharing your knowledge. Just about to haul my tractor into the dealer until I saw your video. Everything checked out - even the bench test. Started motor worked but evidently did not deliver the adequate amperage. New starter fixed my problem. WOW - thanks!!!!
Very heads up my friend! I am electronics trained, I was thinking maybe put it on a scope to really see what the motor is doing... You did that with your own type of tool.. Great job! Thank You so much...
Seeing how honest a mechanic you are ,wishing i lived near you .There is always that intrepidation when you move and no longer know the guy or gal that is looking at your car.
Eric O is the only mechanic on here that supports his diagnosis with truth from engineering fundamentals
Scopes/Graphs are the greatest! We used them in the consumer electronics biz (TV's, stereo's, CB's etc.). It sounded good but it was erratic. I had a starter that would turn very slowly, like a bad battery turning. Took starter to my parts guy, pegged the amps on his tester, it was bad, new starter too. Great video!!
Another excellent vid Mr O. Looking forward to the next one.
Eric; nice new series of videos on component testing. Never dreamed of this back in my wrench pulling days, but then; we did not have access to scopes :) - Please keep them coming.
I'm not real smart, but you explained it well enough for me to know what I should be looking for and to see the difference. Thank you.
Wow, I learned something! Great video, Eric!
when money was real tight I took apart a starter to clean the contacts real good put it back together and reinstalled, Years later car went to a new owner with the original starter. this video is great to see whats going on on a graph.
I once saw a technician put two starters into a car with a seized crankshaft. Dooooh!
Where did he fit the second one? :)
caduceus33 😂😂 you don’t want to know.
Junkie, you should have seen him jump when he hooked two batteries up to his arse to try and turn it over.
Pete Bach talk about a hard jump LOL
Don N Alternators and A/C compressors are often the culprits.
Very cool testing! This makes sense. My son has said the car has been getting tougher to start and then one day after driving to school, he just got a click and it wouldn’t turn over. Ensured battery and connections were good and still a single click. Starters do go bad and not always instantly and your test shows exactly that…it spins on the bench test, but not appropriately. It’s a 2005 BMW X3 with about 145K and is the original starter (or was).
Great job again like always
I'm happy to report that "...Not a sponsor" is a part of my household lexicon since watching this channel. Thank you for the informative videos SMA!
This brought to my mind of a time when I had borrowed mys sister's 1970's Mazda to drive to Atlanta (80 miles) - as soon as I got roughly half way there the car suddenly quit. Pulled on the side - opened the hood and after messing around looking anything out of the ordinary I saw the electric fuel pump (cars back then had the fuel located in the engine compartment) - I tapped on it and it began make it's running noise. Got back in and started driving only to have pump do the same thing again. So...I piece of wire in the trunk - tied it to the fuel pump and routed it up thru under the hood thru driver's side window....got back driving again....when the car started to sputter n' quit I'd just yank on the wire to get the fuel pump going again....was able to complete the trip...Lol!!
Excellent demonstration!
Had this same exact problem on 2002 Honda Odyssey and a 1978 Dodge 1 ton truck. Both starters would either start the vehicle or do nothing. On the bench they both tested good. Rebuilt both starters and they have been working great from years now.
Excellent video - I love the indepth diagnosis vids. Thank you.
"My ear told me it was bad..." About 45 years ago (𝑤ℎ𝑒𝑛 𝑑𝑖𝑛𝑜𝑠𝑎𝑢𝑟𝑠 𝑟𝑜𝑎𝑚𝑒𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑒𝑎𝑟𝑡ℎ) I diagnosed a bad water pump just be ear. Early 70s Pontiac. The pump bearing was going which caused the fan blades to vibrate and give out a distinctive "twang" just as the engine started while I was walking by. I had the lady shut the engine off, pop the hood, and confirmed the bearing was going bad. I really freaked that lady out by diagnosing the pending failure just by the sound it made while starting !
SMA, come for the mechanical expertise, stat for the commentary. Thank you for another great video Eric!
Thanks Eric.
I've never seen the Pico used to test a starter motor like that. NICE! Mostly, it's in the engine for checking cylinder/compression problems. Great Video!
Thanks for another great tutorial. I've been reading Stoakes's Automotive Oscilloscopes Waveform Analysis (your recommendation). Your Pico videos are a great supplement to the book.
Yes we have to keep Ms Marie on the road...👍
Neato way to use my dust covered scope for future diagnostics.
Cool I appreciate your time.
Thank You, Eric! Amazingly I was working on my car this morning as I am having the exact same problem on my '06 Accord with 215K miles on its original starter. I don't have a pico scope, but I bet it's doing the same thing as yours was. I'll take it to an auto store to have them test it, and most likely will replace it. Thank you again!!! You're the best!
Love this. Not just "known good" swap out, but tested to find the actual problem. You could use the SMA channel as training content for apprenticeships
Best video ever.. bad and new both shown.. allot of vids forget this.. show a good.
Excellent video Mr. O
I know both were tested without load, but I think that may make a difference too. A 10-speed bicycle and a kids Big Wheel both spin freely on the bench, but under load, the Big Wheel will not make it up the hill.
Great repair 101 basics. So often the simple things are overlooked in modern cars, e.g. ‘needs a computer, alternator, starter, etc when it was a ground all along.
I had that with my Lincoln MKX, first mechanic put it on the computer and said I needed the dashboard replaced and it would cost $1000 dollars, declined and took it to another place who diagnosed the problem as a bad ground, parts (from Ford) labor and checking the computer came to $275 I started going back for repairs and inspection- but he decided not to be involved with the business (coming in at 9am and going straight to his office and close door and not come out,had to leave after that
Nice job Eric. Thanks for showing and explaining. ❤️ Maybe next time you can use the U-scope 👍
That's some good info, thanks Eric
Yes, great bench demo. I think Nappa should step up and give some perks.
Disagree. Or at least Mr. O should decline sponsorship for the very same reason Scotty Kilmer does. No sponsorship removes taint of potential conflicts of interest.
@@walterk1221 Mr Scotty would not recommend Hondooz, known for bad starters that are hard to get to. REVVVVVVV
Nice graphics, brother!! Videos just keep getting better!
Good video Eric O
Just bought a new start from auto zone for a barn find 87 iroc-z. Very appropriate video for me
Wow, I would of never thought to hook the Pico to it. You're good!
Eric, Mrs O needs to make a special appearance haven't seen her in your videos lately. Thanks for the starter troubleshooting tips.
Very cool captures indeed. Thanks Dr. O!
Best auto vids on the internet.
I bought a brush box for my vw jetta starter (bosch 110) from ASPWholesale down in Florida, good product, good price. They also have bushings and other stuff. I would highly recommend them :)
Good video very interesting using the Pico
Eric, have we ever seen Ms. Marie on here before? Trying to place a face with the name, but no joy. You are an excellent teacher!
Excellent, we don't do this enough. I had a similar starter issue that was frustratingly intermittent, with good drop testing and no other factors. Wasn't sure if it was the brushes or the solenoid contacts, but I didn't want to be left stranded and solenoid contacts were not easily available. It would have been nice to document the issue, even if the eventual decision was no different.
Quick, definitive testing. Once you get it out of the vehicle!
Do a lot of high voltage motor testing and to me the old starter sounded like a broken or weak brush spring causing excessive bounce which if left will just smoke the motor off but I like the way you used the Pico to confirm your suspicions 👍
Back in the day when I was a young guy, I put new brushes in my ‘69 Corvette’s starter. Dressed up the armature too. I suppose labor cost today makes it more economical to replace.
As a mechanic, it makes sense to replace starter. If brushes are failing, who knows what's next and you don't want customer to return saying you did a poor job. For a cheap mechanic, would it not make sense to replace the brushes? On my old Silverado, the braded wire between the solenoid and starter motor was severely corroded so I bought a new starter and then replaced the brushes assembly (the braded wire was part of the brushes assembly) and kept the old starter as a backup.
Super interesting excellent video. Need someone to come out with a cheap version of that Pico, though, so I’d have to look at the brushes.
Very informative thanks for sharing Eric!
Just a comment. Just had a starter issue. Took it out of the car, took it to O'Riely and they "tested it" which means they just ran some Volts thru it. Tested GREAT! But in the end, it was still the starter that was bad. Trust your gut! Replaced the starter and the rig fired right up.
way cool Dr O ! So simple and no fail test and fix. Your honesty is so refreshing. Keep teaching and sharing.
Taught us how to use an armature growler in tech school... Haven't seen another one since 😂
Exactly, it's better to use practical methods that a shop would actually use. More likey to have a scope in the shop than a growler
Now you just have to convince autozone that bench testing isn’t the same as cranking a car😂. I like the test light method. Have to try that.
Just been through that, new starter DOA in nine months. Reminds me of your "frustrating day". Nothing worse then a crappy starter...
Great test. I never thought about testing with a pico scope. Great job!
Now that’s pretty cool I like to see those kinds of videos keep up the good work Eric o
Glad to see you found a recording software for your computer.
Thank you
hahahahahaha I always crack up when Eric says "you ding-dong" hahaha or "we got our new from NAPPER" hahahahahah
Awesome!. Not lately, bit way back in the day I worked at a shop that was right next to a napa store, so we got most of our starters and fuel pumps there.... as well as everything else. I had a few cars come back with intermittent no cranks and I replaced the starter under warranty. The store tried to deny warranty because they put it in their "tester" (essentially the same thing as you have here) and it spun so it must be good. I told them well... I don't know, the car didn't start, everything else checks out good, I replaced the starter and now it starts, so then you tell me. I ended up having to stop buying parts there even though they were next door because I couldn't afford to take a 50/50 chance that I was going to eat every starter I put in. This was back before anyone ever heard of a pico, and I wish I would have had this back then, it would have saved alot of headaches and money.
Great video.
I wish you had taken the bad starter apart. I got a starter I am having problems with but it looks fine inside
Great lesson in testing brush type DC Motors. The poor brush contact will probably show better in the scope on an UNLOADED motor with lower amperage draw because there will be less brush arcing. The higher current of a loaded motor will tend to arc across the poor contact of a failing brush / commutator and give a less defined signal. Add to that, the varying loads of compression like in a relative compression test, and that would be very difficult to impossible to see the poor brush contact. If you could get at the starter and bypass the solenoid so that it would not engage the ring gear, then you should be able to do the same "Bench Test" in the car. It seems that manufacturers today don't think that some accessories need to be changed and put them in poorly accessible locations. My son just bought a BMW 6 Cylinder ____ (something) and they put the starter on top of the engine...... under the intake manifold, which has to be removed to access the starter..... or so we have been told..... so far we have not seen anything that looks like a starter. Just live in fear of something that will need to be changed...... sometime...... ! It makes every start an adventure. Sometimes being blissfully unaware of everything that happens when you "turn the key" has an advantage.
Thanks for that. I hadn't been able to put together why it would be muddled if tested when loaded. Makes sense.
There is at least one year of Tundra with the starter under the intake manifold.
Thanks for the video.
Good to know. I've written about my car battery going down enough not to start the car. I checked one time and the battery was at 11.35 volts, but wouldn't start the car. I'm planning on changing it out just because, but mostly don't want to have to get stuck someplace and have to pay someone else to pull the exhaust manifold to get to the starter. I'd like to drop by and have you check it for whatever cost to see if its worth hanging onto incase the new oem starter fails at some point. Like that never happens, lol. Thanks for sharing.
Ran into the same exact situation with an Accord. Access was, "better", but the diagnostics were the same. Mind you, I did not bench test after taking the starter out, but I was ok with replacing the starter with 300k on the clock. Have been trouble free for the last 60k. It comes down to a wear and tear issue, but, it leads you to think of a dying battery as your original diagnosis, then to compound matters, it's an intermittent issue!
Hey Eric, We would've Liked to see you Vid. Changing that STARTER !! Although with a LIFT, that's half the Battle.
Made perfect sense Eric O. good job buddy thanks for video's
Intermittent means stress and anxiety . Great video . Thumbs up
that starter was bipolar, no doubt - the EEG proves it.
Nice explanation Eric.
Thank you for this great video. I nkw understand it. Was confuse why when i bench tested it it work but when i install on engine it would not turn it over.