Mixing With Pink Noise - Does it work?
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- Setting your levels quickly with Pink Noise - Does it Work?
I am asked this almost every day.
The idea behind the technique is that you can use a pink noise reference to easily set the levels of your mix and save a lot of time, stress and ear fatigue in the process. Can it really be that easy?
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What happened to you mackie monitors??
I use pink noise referencing only as a starting point, not to get a perfect or near perfect mix. Takes alot less time when used that way
People always try to find a shortcut to the dinner table, but, if you use your ears, takes time at the beginning but really pays off in long run. Great video!
That is no shortcut - it actually helps me a lot, since I can still not hear the differences between the channels etc. so well. And I make music since years, but am sooooo bad at mixing stuff. THIS method might just be a REVELATION to me. But, I admire those who can use their ears alons and still mix nicely.
think about everything on an eq together, and you only have so much canvas, finding somewhere for every instrument is hard, but with less is more a lot of the time and then just throw a maximizer on a second export works for me,
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There is an article on S.O.S that specifically goes through the process from a proper engineer. There is a key point in the article that majority of these youtube videos have missed out on and unfortunately you have as well. For anyone who cannot afford tools like sonarworks and work in crappy rooms, pink noise can be very useful, especially for someone who designs their own sounds. Using pink noise is meant to give you a ball park reference, not where you should have to place your elements in the mix. The art of it is still very much you.
Yes, it makes sense to me but I agree, RUclipsrs are watching other RUclipsrs and repeating what they hear without referencing original sources.
Not that I am for or against pink noise (TBH I've never tried it myself), but how is using Pink Noise to get a 'ball park reference' any different than looking at my volume meters to get the same sort of 'ball park reference'? Asking for a friend:)
@@bullpuppy7455old comment but if you were still curious, it's a more accurate "ball park reference" because pink noise is even and balanced across the frequency spectrum. unfortunately, our presumably poorly acoustically treated rooms are not. the idea is that by balancing all of your sounds against balanced noise, your resulting starting point will be even and balanced in a way that you might not have been able to achieve otherwise with your ears in a distorted listening environment. work from there to taste, but theoretically speaking your starting point should now likely be more balanced than it might've been.
Thank you for explaining this to people 👍🏾
I’m usually a silent spectator and find your videos massively helpful as I grow as somebody mixing and mastering their own music.
Anyhow, I do use pink noise, but not like this.
What I do is use a tone generator for the pink noise, then send it to an input of a spectrum analyzer (in my case, Voxengo SPAN) that is on the master channel. Then I underlay the pink noise against the master.
I don’t worry about getting it just so against the curve of pink noise, particularly as I move up the frequency spectrum (unless there is a major differential between the track and the pink noise in an area, in which case I check what’s going on in that area).
Mostly I use this to make sure my low end is balanced with the rest of the song. When I first started mixing, I was producing very bass heavy tracks, so I started doing this until I feel like I can do it by ear.
I have done this technique before as well. Use it as a reference to the overall mix.
Balancing track levels takes me forever but I do that all manually. Pink noise would drive me insane and would probably cause ear fatigue far quicker than balancing manually. Totally agree...use your ears :) Thanks!
I just don't want the girl from the ring to come out of my monitor and murder me
You think Pink Noise is bad? Try White Noise. You'll be dead in 5 minutes tops.
It will reset your ears to get a new perspective.Don't use it for this technique.
@@JesseXM Raises the question of why you give a shit and why you think you get to decide who contributes.
ausud i duno thAt was 3 months ago... I don’t remember why I said that but I’m sure I had a reason at the time ....
For more heavy bass genres, I suggest trying out brown noise. I find brown noise is closer to the result I want and also closer to two reference songs I checked when compared to pink noise. For those who don't know, white noise has a flat frequency response noise/EQ curve whereas pink noise has a downward 3dB/oct slope and brown noise has 6dB/oct downward slope (more bass, less treble than either white or pink). Likely for a lot of other genres something between pink and brown would work the best ( 4.5dB/oct). When using pink noise, I find I have to boost the lows a little higher, the high end is a little too bright. If one has a matching EQ, compare your reference songs, and your own mixed songs, to pink or brown noise and see which is closer. Also, try EQ match your mix to about 30% or less to brown (or pink) noise. I use TDR Nova to EQ match. You can download pink and brown noise from audiocheck dot net. For pink noise generation also check out the free Pink vst from Credland Audio.
wow super helpful man
Can any of the noise techniques Be applied to mixing vocals in anyway?
Thanks for your take on this. I've recently tried the technique and had a very similar experience to yours. I'm not likely to try it again.
There's an article on S.O.S that refers to it on far more detail. You can spend the same amount of time gain staging with/without pink noise. If they are unfamiliar sounds, or you are in an imperfect environment (on tour, hotel room, etc) it can be useful. If it took you longer than normal, it's because you're unfamiliar with the process. It's a *starting point*, you can use with headphones, less than ideal speakers, etc. If we all had this guy's perfect equipment and room everywhere we go, then yeah, don't use pink noise... But in reality most don't have that luxury.
Just completed my first production to mastering, and it took me a couple of months because I am a complete rookie. I did everything by ear, I never heard of pink noise until today, but I think I'm grateful I didn't know. I believe I have trained my ears to a good extent now. Thanks for the video man.
After your words "don't look at this tuft of hair" I began to look at it))))
is funny you say 10 minutes is quite a while? I could go on mixing a song for days
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@@laurabrown2899 One of the best ideas for wiping your ass is using toilet paper. It reduces the shit on your hand by almost 100% (depending on your wiping skills).
thats even better you'll have more patience progressing
@Technica De Vos. I tried to mix one of my own songs for over a year, then gave up. I just think mixing is not for me 😂
I think you might have misunderstood. He was referring only to gain staging, not mixing. Unless you're saying you gain stage for days at a time then I get your counter argument.
There are no shortcuts kids, just good practice.
Having said that, you can do a much easier variation on this with an LUFS meter. Set each channel individually to be hitting -23 LUFS and just do it on your key elements (vocal, bassline, kick, etc) leaving the background elements to do later. The result may not sound great, but WILL give you a starting point and also give you clues as to what might be required tonally, compression wise and whether you have certain areas of the frequency spectrum that are too crammed with material.
What I found is that a spectrum analyser and putting my mix through it and seeing which frequencies are not meeting the pink noise slope was very interesting. I found I was missing a lot of low mids. I boosted these frequencies in some instruments and the mix sounded much better. Definitely useful knowledge but mixing with pink noise hissing in the background was definitely not fun... loved the video :)
This is an older video so I understand if you don't read the comments anymore but the way you *properly* use pink noise as a reference is by averaging your song's frequencies over time and then seeing how the full picture compares to the silhouette of a pink noise tone over time (-3 dB/oct). In your case, you use SPAN, which for example can average out your song's profile with the AVG setting. So, essentially, you use that on your MASTER buss to take an "average" of your song, then compare the result to the average of pink noise to "verify" that everything is "roughly where it should be". If it isn't, you adjust the master EQ to correct the profile for small errors, or go back to your mix if there are bigger holes. You should never actually listen to an actual pink noise sample!
Strict adherence to the pink noise curve profile is usually a characteristic of "wall of sound" genres such as big room, trance, or several kinds of house music. You can test this by taking a club hit into your DAW and averaging its frequency responses over the course of playing it, just like how one measures integrated loudness. The end result should loosely tend toward an imaginary -3 dB/oct curve.
Your method seems like a better approach for sure. I was testing out what most of the other RUclipsr tutorial teachers were claiming was an amazing trick. And it really did not work as claimed
@@inthemix I understand, and I'll be honest I've never actually seen any of those "Try this 1 weird trick" videos on this subject. When I initially discovered your video with "pink noise" in the title I immediately clicked it in the assumption that you'll show off something of the above, like, curve-fitting the frequency response of your MASTER output to an idealised reference.
What followed instead has surprised me - in a bad way - and I'm not even surprised it didn't work. It's like you said: a kick drum for example has both high and low frequencies, and you're bound to hear one before the other. One can't arrive at proper average mix levels if all one cares about is instant gratification on the first little thing they hear.
Thanks for having looked into it!
@@DelphinidaeZeta You're absolutely right! I have check the other channels and it appears they have removed the videos!!! This is a big shock to me as they were/are the largest mixing channels on RUclips
Finally someone who is honest about using pink noise when mixing. Thanks, Michael!
Greetings, Emiel.
I was mixing today without Pink Noise and after this I tried to mis with it. Mix became much better. I'm a beginner, so it works.
But it doesn't mean that you should forget everything else and stop learning. It is a helping tool, not a shortcut.
I gave this a go and it's definitely interesting. Although it will rarely be all you need to balance properly, I did find it useful for a few things.
Low End - I have been making hip-hop, and a big issue is the low end sounding great when mixing, but being overpowering once played back on smalller or bass heavy speakers. Out of all the tracks I mixed using pink noise, the low end was actually very clolse to where I wanted the volume to be in comparison to my other tracks.
Point of reference - It can never hurt to have another point of reference. I mixed 3 versions of a track; with my own ears, using a reference track, and using pink noise (all mixed to -6db). I then played them all and soloed between them, the pink noise track was by far the worst mix, but it was good to hear all the elements at the same level, and it made me hear what was too loud in the pink noise mix, but also what was too quiet in my own mix.
There are no shortcuts, only tools. And as a learning and reference tool, I definitely see a lot of value in using pink noise.
I use this all the time in Ableton and it works VERY well. I use a Max For Live plugin called "Referencer reference patch 1.2" by LAEX. I have used Ozone's EQ and FabFilter Q for reference, but the Referencer Max for Live device just works better for me. I don't need to listen to the pink noise. I overlay the pink noise spectrum line and solo each instrument. I turn the levels up or down, just so the frequencies of the solo mix are at or below the line. I don't think using the pink noise "listen" method works very well, but the pink noise visual overlay provides a GREAT reference for levels.
I could imagine this technique working better if you pre-adjust the EQ of the various instruments to get the proper frequency ranges prominent (like your kick drum explanation). Then you would be adjusting more based on the frequencies that you actually want to hear in those instruments, etc.
Use an analyser with a tilt instead, pink noise attenuates at -3db per octave, so if you use an analyser with a +3db per octave tilt and match the peaks that way it's far easier to work with i.e. fabfilter pro q uses a +4.5db per octave tilt by default which can be switched to +3db. I started doing this a while back and it made a huge difference to my work. I also found that by bringing the top end down by about -1db (under the tilt) it helps not to put too much top end in.
The reason you had crappy results just levelling with pink noise is you're not EQing, you're just levelling the overall sound. i.e. if you have a sound with a wide range, by levelling the most dominant part (usually the lows), you're just going to be burying other areas of that sound.
So essentially, use an EQ with an analyser set to +3db per octave gain and EQ the peak levels to line up for each element so that it sounds good to your ears.. this doesn't mean boosting the top end of a kick so that its top matches it's bottom, it just means that you can match the fundamental of the kick to the peak level of your leads etc.. you still need to EQ and craft the sound. This technique is also good for matching the energy of bass harmonics (baring in mind the summing of frequencies of different elements also ..i.e kick and bass)
Great insight thanks!
No worries, a little more for you, using a 3db per octave tilt on the analyser will give you a bright sounding mix, using 4.5 will be more bass heavy, so experiment and see what works for you and the genre you're making@@TheMessiah91
Well explained!, I agree with you, this is not for professional use, it's more of a gimmick enhanced by social media used by some RUclipsrs that "mix" samples and hip hop, it's useless for mixing live tracked instruments
I've seen tutorials about this before, but didn't understood a thing! 😂 This is why we need you..
Here are the basic steps:
1. Load in a pink noise sample (or generator) into a track in your mixing session.
2. Bring up each track in your mix - one at a time - against the pink noise until it's barely audible above the noise.
3. Repeat for all tracks in your mix (treating any groups or busses as one track)
4. Mute the pink noise, un-mute all the other tracks, et voila - a rough and ready (but pretty good) balance of levels.
If anything's unclear, let me know.
@@EDMTips will it work when i already put reverb, compression and so on on the channel? Or do i have to use the "natural" Sound?
@@MK-pn3lm It should work with all that processing done, yes
Im using this trick for years i didnt know it became that popular for me it really works wonders ofcourse i still have to adjust it a little but as a starting point this is top notch
I tried it today for one of my dubstep tracks. I am a hobby-producer, I don't have much experience in mixing so was just curious what I will get. Drop was very muddy and sounded really bad, but some other sections which contain less bass were actually pretty good. The vocals/chants were too quiet. It took quite a lot of time to set all the faders. Alltogether, I recommend trying this, since it is free (just download a pink noise sample) and if you are happy only with a part of the result (like me) you can always do the rest with "normal" techniques.
When I use it, I have the mix sitting SLIGHTLY above the pink noise, rather than making sure that the sounds disappear beneath it... the mix should be like a light dusting of snow over the sound of the pink noise. One you get the hang of using it it doesn’t take that long, it helps to balance sounds within the buss, then balance the overall mix.
pink noise is more for testing audio equipment and finding standing waves in your recording room. since we all know what pink noise looks like on a spectrometer, you can use it to find artifacts caused by faulty mics, speakers, amplifiers, or even the resonance of the room. you just connect a mic to a spectrometer, and (again, since we all know what pink noise looks like) you can then scan a room (as if the mic is a geiger counter) to find pockets where the actual "echo" of the room affects the frequency response of the sound being played through monitors/speakers (phase relationship nonsense).
Congratulations on 100K!
I'm just an old geezer who fiddled around with LMMS for awhile, then moved onto FL12/20 a few months ago. Your tutorials have been most educational. Thank you! :)
Wild he’s at 1 million now!
Only use for me has been: After I have mixed my song to a good point by ear, I turn up pink noise just to check if anything is way "out of wack" before starting or sending to mastering...
To be honest, even then Ive just turned down a snare or two and maybe touched the sub..
I think its a cool and refreshing technic to check levels, but definitely not to set them.
I don't think that this cheap way is working. It's better to just develop your hearing and do timeouts often. Nothing in life can be done fast and easy and be efficient. You always have to spend your time. The only value that really matters.
17artk I absolutely agree. Thats what I was highlighting at the end of the video. It's not a good technique at all imo
Also another problem with it I believe is when you convert from mono to stereo, usually the sound gets louder, so its not a good representation if you mix it in mono then expand to stereo; your stereo sound will probably be too loud
@@inthemix do you have a video on your own method for gain staging? or do you literally just use your ears?
@@paulreynolds5751 i do it by ears
@@wry.mp4 ok thanks
I don’t think getting the sound “under” the pink noise works. I think it’s more about getting the level “just right” WITHIN the pink noise. I find that’s the best approach. Think of it like a glass full of water and your spaciously placing objects in that glass to your liking. Once you remove that pink noise the object is situated in the glass just how you want it to be. Without this approach, mixes can be too muddy. (Real pros don’t need it of course)
Great video!!
So many are looking for shortcuts instead of just putting in the work and learning!
The time spent watching these videos about this crap and setting it up could be used to actually just learn with your ears!
Personally we couldn't sit there and listen to pink or white noise, It would just kill the mood
If needed to use it, just do what is trending then Mix with your ears first then put pink noise on after to check to see if anything sticks out!!
Technology has advance so much with equipment, plugins and DAW's That its just not needed, A good way to waste time and kill the mood fast! lol
Like you said, you don't want to be in a session and telling them to hold on I need to go get my white noise or pink noise to get things correctly leveled. lol
Have a great day and thanks again for another great video!
I use Pink vst in every mix now and the mixes have never sounded better. But that for starters is a critical step with using pink noise. The level of the pink noise has to be calibrated to your room by using a sound density meter from the app store. Make sure your just under 80db with the pink on in your room. That requires adjusting speaker volume to achieve this. Sub and all. Then the next critical mistake you made was you used your faders instead of the sampler to adjust volume before the sound hits the fader. Because if you lower volume before the fader you keep full dynamics but if you ride the fader down you loose a ton of dynamics witch makes the song sound super flat and will not achieve the desired effect. But in some cases you do lower on the fader so it will squash a pokie noise down a bit frequencie range. I had the same thought when I first started using pink like this is not creative and it doesn't work! Until I figured it out! Now I would never go back. You use it as you go to set your noise levels not all at once at the end that helps it not feel so medical. And then tweak at the end. So your idea of using pink was right just wrong execution.
Dynamics Dynamics Dynamics.
And trust me you will never be know how off you levels really are untill this is right. Hope this works. If you have any questions just let me know. Thanks for the videos they are all great and this one was no exception keep up the good work.
A ARON Teasley Thanks for the insight but I don't understand what you mean by "adjusting the fader will remove the dynamics. In FL studio, a trim tool, gain tool and fader have identical functionally...they do exact the same thing to the sound?
Not exactly. When you lower the fader your essentially "crushing" the sound down rather than lowering its overall volume which decreases dynamics. If you lower and pan on the sampler you get true volume decrease without loss of dynamics and true left and right pan. Where once the sound hits the fader or any kind of volume reduction tool ie Trimmer you loose sound quality. I couldn't believe there was such a big difference till I heard it in action.
A ARON Teasley Hi, which DAW do you use? I have tested it on my system and there is absolutely no difference on analysers and my ears
FL. The problem could be in the pink noise its self that your using. I tried with a clip on the playlist to begin with and that didnt work at all because the volume of the clip is always wrong lol. Go to www.credland.net/pink/ and download this vst. Don't change anything when you load it up. It needs to be on -6.0 db the grab a good db pressure meter app. Put your phone where your head would be listening and calibrate your room with the pink on. Adjusting your speaker and sub volumes to right at 80db. Careful with the sub it takes up a lot of pressure db wise. I have mine set what seems very low to me but the mixes translate to everything perfectly. Ozone 8 on your master bus and make sure all you sounds together hit Ozone at about -3 db on FLs current meter and boom your on your way to more "air" between everything in your mix then you have heard before. I know it sounds like a lot but after set up its done. Load pink vst take 2 sec on each sound you use to check its volume. This way makes it way less uncreative! Because I totally feel you on that I hate the sound of it. But this way its quick and part of your work flow for that stuff you juuuuuusssstt cant get to sit right in the mix. Hope this helps I know its a lot sorry.
I hate that its not working for you right off that was frustrating for me. But after hours of research eureka!Its kinda like everything else in music you cant give up on it right away because once you can get it right it works very well as a work flow tool on things your ear cant really perceive. Especially in heavy mixes. And keeping those faders at 0db almost always. Adjust volume from the sampler with the pink of corse. Do one mix you'll see. But then your stuff sounds great already so it may not be a marginal enough difference to even worry about switching your current work flow. I would still be curious though😁
There's no wrong way of how to balance the track, what matters that it sounds right in the end. I like to split up days or hours when it comes to mixing. After everything is recorded, I get a rough balance mix with any samples or amp sims that are needed in one day and mix the next day. By then, I may not remember how it sounds like and it has helped me a lot in mixing and mastering.
I totally agree levels should be set by ear. The only way this could possibly help anyone is if they are mixing on speakers in an extremely bad sounding room, this could give them a starting point that is possibly be better than relying on an inconsistent environment. Truthfully setting levels by ear is one of the most exciting things about mixing to me. Great vid!
I find this technique really interesting, but I haven't had the discipline to complete a mix exclusively done this way yet. What I'd like and aim to try when I get the time is the following: 1)
Get the rough levels to begin with using pink noise, 2) Compress/EQ, set delay and reverb levels by ear initially, then, 3) Final mix using all the elements of the track together, balanced using pink noise.
To me, it makes no sense to ignore EQ, compression, delay and reverbs etc. when using this technique. Don't they contribute to the balance of the mix in the end? If not, just remove such things from your track!
The thing about doing everything by ear is that you are not just trusting yourself, but your speakers and room too, which are not always telling you the truth (and often far from it). I think this method will help in that the same problems affecting your audio will affect the pink noise equally, and thus (hopefully?) cancel out. I might be wrong about that though. In any case, you don't need to follow the method slavishly - if you wish intentionally to have some elements higher or lower in the mix, you can use the levels 'suggested' by the pink noise as a baseline from which to deviate.
True its absurd to rule out that the pink noise method is not completely efficient
This technique isn't for final (or even close to final) mixing. I use it for gain staging basically. Once you get the levels set your frequencies will all about level cymbals will be same level (to the ear) as a kick drum. You can't always rely on your meters to do this as your db might not reflect the frequencies you actually hear. This technique is a good way to get your song/project at a good "starting point" so you can mix well.
Excellent discussion. Listening to pink/white/blue/green/etc noise (without a cool filter sweep over it) would drive me insane. I'm starting to appreciate that speed is the key skill I need to improve on when recording and mixing - to keep the creativity and energy going and to avoid ear fatigue and I'm sure this pink noise technique would actually slow me down. BTW - I love how all your videos are as concise as they are informative. 100K subscribers - very well deserved.
Nate Marshall Thanks Nate, yeah I'd say speed is essential. Not to rush but to be able to effectively allow creativity to flow! I appreciate your comment a lot :)
Wow. This technique is quite good. Saves me some fatigue in my ears. Proper method. Though time consuming. But it was worth a try. Thanks for the Lesson.
I've talked to a dj that uses pink noise for a reference to make sure every frequency hits you at the same time on the dancefloor. Base move slower than any high pith frequency. Pink noise can be really helpfull to set up speakers with pitchdependant delays to achive perfect boom boom in the crowd's chest.
Congrats for 100k Subscribers❤
Dr.Vilest Thanks Dr :)
It's 425 000 now
the result is just awasome !! it sounds like a track ready for pre-mastering ...
I like your videos bro, have a nice day.
I tried this the other day. Actually worked well for me! Maybe I was lucky with that mix?
I’ll never use this again, your explanation about the kick makes complete sense, which is probably why my levels sometimes sound awkward
You’ve made some very valid points here and delivered it in a clear, well understood way. This is great content, man. Well done.
the pink noise is a good start for keeping alot of headroom. i can listn to the tone over hours, its the same like on the beach :) For me is it just a Tool that can help me to got a new view of the track. The technique was announced for a nature hear feeling
Well thought through presentation.
If you really want to learn how sound works, try it like we did 60 years ago, 1 (one) mic, mono, GO !
If you have an IPAD? You can download the SLP Meter to your Ipad and use your Ipad to adjust your speakers. To adjust your speakers, use the gain. knob. I also adjusted other spots on the speakers. Remember to test and adjust each speaker separately. I think when you use the pink noise to your clip and adjust with gain? You get a blend of the mix and you know what to do next. I still experimenting with it. I had mix level to -6 DBS and the rest I added like eq, compression, etc. When you mention -10 or -15 I was lost. I think it's called gain staging. I kind of got it off of RUclips. Oh yeah! thanks for the video on Expose plugin.
Truth is...
I hate watching your videos at night
Your voice is so soothing I always get sleepy and dose off
No huma
I tried it out twice and couldt find the sweet spot. Also was super unsatisfied with the mix at the end. So id suggest the same. Use your ears and learn!
Damn, the real bukez!
i used this technique to mix groups together, works well on some things but still can get better results with ear. i think this is for newer producers as most don't have the ear.
I would never do this, but it was still very interesting to learn about this technique.
For those into techno / EDM or anything that heavily relies on the relation of the kick and bass (low frequencies), this trick can work cert well in my view. You can set your kick level and bass nicely. From there I would use those floppy things on the side of my head ;) oh also reference tracks can hugely help too!
Came here to learn how to mix with pink noise. Left without wanting to. Thanks for this great video.
You bring up a lot of good points. In terms of how i use it, especially in the context you brought up of if your tracks aren't recorded well, I do my corrective fixes first. What i mainly use it for is although i can get a pretty solid starting balance quicker on my own without it, i never seemed to really get a good handle on a volume/db level to mix at. Some days i need things louder, some days quieter and that can generally change the general level i am working at from mix to mix at times so i don't always hit a consistent db range over the full mix that i want to be at. Granted, you can just group everything together and do a full bump up or down, and adjust any master buss stuff after that, but it definitely helps me get a very consistent range where i know i'm pushing enough but have plenty of head room to still work with. The other thing which probably helps a lot is how you view what the process does. People online and in different sources seem to try to falsely describe it like it's this magic thing where you do it and your mix is like 90% of the way there. All it is really doing is just giving you a consistent and dependable starting place with your levels. while a lot of people like to mix in instrument groups (bring up your drums, get them dialed, move on to your bass etc then make tweaks after) i find that this process lends itself more towards those that set levels and do the majority of their work in reaction to the context of everything else. At the end of the day, just another tool that isn't necessary for all, but definitely can serve a purpose.
i use to do balance with pink noise by hearing, i too did not satisfied with mix, but i enjoyed my mix with pink noise, doing with muted master output and by watching pink noise signal in equalizer and desired channel equalizer matching with pink noise ... personally i saw great mix by using pink noise.
Great insight into this technique. I've thought about trying it and maybe I will just to see what it's about. I think getting the balance right is something you can do quite well when you use reference tracks, which can help your mixes in various other ways simultaneously.
And congratulations on getting a 100k subscribers! It's well deserved :)
I use pink noise as a baseline from where I make further mixing decisions. Some instruments live somewhere in the background to add to the vibe. Some need to stand-out more. Some may change importance throughout the track. If everything has the same volume, the mix can become boring in some cases.
Mixing with pink noise can be ruff. For some strange reason, I find the pink noise created by the Pink VST by Credland Audio not as harsh as the pink noise of my go-to synth. You may think that pink noise is pink noise and it should sound everywhere same, but there seems to be differences in which plug-in you use. No Idea if this has to do with algorithm, bitrate or dithering.
maybe it was on stereo in one pluging, maybe was on mono in a different plugin ? Im new in these things but thought this might be the reason ?
I tried it and it works fine for me, not mixing 60 tracks though, that would take long regardless.
really works two tracks of my playlist are mixing with this mode and results are good
EQ to remove unwanted frequencies first before using pink noise to balance your mix or it's no use, also use a HP filter on everything that doesn't need en low end, those take away power from your mix...you'd be surprised how many low frequencies ar in most hihats
This! If you level out the peaks for elements that have a wide range, unless they are already well balanced elements then it's not going to work, also the summing of elements will throw off the peak levels.
Like all techniques, it's not a "1 size fits all" deal, if it's "Mid-Side", Reference tracks, Parallel, summing etc It's all a step to get you to the next step whether you chose to use it or not. I tried it & it got me a good balance quickly without thinking too much about it, that being said it was NOT with a track I had mixed before & the result was far from perfect. All my gain staging was done prior. With all the techniques it's a tool trying to quantify an artistic process so they'll never be perfect but it's a step that I can implement in my workflow to get to a certain point
I love you eyes and production skill
FM From Subeg Why thank you!
I am a post-mastering service provider that uses AI (among other tools) - & I will tell you that the AI utilized here does NOT rely on a pink-noise reference. Like so many things that come along - the recent fad of using noise as a reference is likely taken far from the context of the reasons originally given by the ground-0 promoter. Oh, and the very use of "AI" has also become a buzz-word. The fact is that no 2 AI systems are the same and most are not even closely related. Those implemented well are stunning tools and those poorly implemented are as equally deplorable. BTW: Love your channel and would like to introduce the SpectreLayer service sometime. It Rocks!
Great technique to prevent yourself from clipping. Basically has me bring everything down to -12dB and have ozone maximized bring the volumes up to the 10-7 rms range.
5-10 minutes is a long time? I'll sit around for an hour trying to make every sound good together
Same :/
@@4NobodyGuy In hindsight with 2 years of experience now, id have to say I agree that in the initial stages you shouldn't spend more than 5 minutes on a single sound. Get it fitting in the mix and move on otherwise you'll waste time, especially if you decide that that sound doesn't fit in the end. Once you have a full track mostly ready THEN you take some time to carve those individual sounds more precisely
Just gain staging.
@@supersonicsroots A lots changed in 2 years, I'm able to gain stage in 10-20 minutes now lmao
@@jrapp654 🤘🔥🔥
yesssss... this is a good start video conversation, please dont do that hello and welcome back to the channel... hahahaa this video have a good starting words
I totally agree on your opinion. I also tried mixing with this technique and it totally destroyed the balance of what I already had, especially the channels with a high peak volume such as kicks etc...
The way hes doing it is WRONG. You're not supposed to use pink noise this way. The way to do it is to bring the pink noise in your daw, open up a match eq, record the profile from the pink noise, then match each track to its corresponding frequency from the pink noise. It didnt work in the video because he didnt do it.
Oh dear. Tried mxing against a pink noise WAV. Then switched off the WAV channel and....oh dear oh dear. Sounded like random levels. I will stick to using my ears. Great Video - thanks.
I never used it , i like to mix in mono cus my left ear is sensitive to high frequencies .Congrats for 100k 👊👊
Thanos should have used a Pink Noise to balance the universe exactly like I balance my tracks 😂
Tetroid that’s actually really funny
yoooo 😂😂😂
I was thinking about this recently. But with white noise not pink noise. I just thought of it as a theory.
White noise is all sound within the audible spectrum being played at once. Every possible sinewave. Or you could think about it like this "every possible sound all at once". Because its like white light, every color all at once.
Sometimes you have harsh harmonics or frequencys that are to loud. Why are they to loud? Well, within a mix with lots of harmonic information playing in each band, something is essentially unbalanced. Its like this. If you had a well mixed pop hit playing at -6db, and you had a sine wave playing at 2000hz -6db, the sinewave will sound a lot harsher and a lot louder. Why is that?
Because there is nothing for that 1 particular sinewave to be compared to. Its the only thing playing. There are cells in the cochlea (anatomy of ear) that detect specific frequencies as they vibrate. That means only a small section of the cochlea is being vibrated at -6db with a single sine tone. But when a pop track with a ton of harmonic content is playing that's very balanced, the hairs on the cochlea arent individually being vibrated at -6db, instead all harmonic content adds up to -6db. So its not perceived as harsh.
This is where my white noise theory comes in. Since white noise takes up the entire spectrum, spaces with gaps in a more minimal mix can be filled with white noise, or harmonically dense content for more character. This in theory could be used to soften frequencies. Have a system that plays white noise against the instruments, and the instruments harmonic content subtract from the white noise if that makes sense. I dont think face cancelation could do it, it sounds complex IMO. But thats where my theory was at. I googled it to see what the internet thinks.
Thanks for your thoughts, this video made me feel better about chucking the pink noise wav in the bin, Didn't like the mix it gave me, but it did highlght how low i had mixed the highs, guess it was good for that!
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New ideas from the best RUclips channel ❤❤
Congrats on the 100k subs.Your mixing videos are so helpful.
I feel validated by this video.
I tried it once, hated the time it took when in the end it sounded worse to me than just using a frequency analyzer.
infernvsnecrohag I experienced he same thing. Some people said it works and I tried and tried without luck. I think you're right :)
According to my mentor
U should play the whole song, pink noise in the background and try to match loudness of your elements to that of other elements. Pink noise just tell wheather your element is louder or softer in the mix.
And you balance an element whill listening to the whole mix
I think it has to do with your personal hearing acuity. With out using pink noise it can take me hours to get projects with lots of tracks into the starting ball park. Using Pink noise helps me, in a manner of minutes find good starting ballpark levels for every track. I'm just a hobbyist, I just do this for fun, and I don't mix that often, so in terms of hearing experience, I am light years behind pros like you, so it is more of a productivity aid for me.
Thank you for this! I'm still learning, so your video probably saved me a lot of time that I would have had to make up for later.
✨pinkity noisity✨
100k...you deserve more👏☺️
Keep the good work up, bro.
And congrats for 100k subs!
Anis_ Sović Thank you :)
I love your videos. Just wondering if you could you use the same principle but with a reference track instead of using pink noise. I.e. soloing each track against the reference track and lowering the volume until you can't hear the track?
We weren't pros of course, but we used pink noise to set a 31 band eq. for both our monitors and house by itself, We never had it mixed in along with the music?????It always worked for us. We had great sound. We just played clubs and bar rooms. Maybe we were doing it wrong the whole time or maybe your going too far? That was over 20 yrs ago, things have changed that I don't even want to touch a mixer, now you need a semester course.
I've been mixing for nearly 12 years now and I'm still learning new things every day. I used pink noise earlier today in a session and it got pretty close to where I wanted but the song is fairly well mixed at this point. I would never use this technique with other people waiting in the studio.
I think if you use an SLP meter for your speaker adjustments. I think pink noise come out well. I also adjust with gain in Avid pro tools. My mix came out good but there always adjustments. It attenuates the sound better. Last lay heavy stuff like EQ, compression, and other tools. For the SPL meter, I use pink noise and record it on Ipad to like 80dbs. since I have a small room. I'm still testing this workflow. But likewise, you still have to tweek. I think the technique is to be giving you a great mix, to begin with, and you see has to be next to finish. The SLP meter is cool. I adjusted my speakers so we'll, that I hear my music excellent and clear now. I go to school and I'm going to graduate in July. I will be getting my Audio Production Bachelor Science degree. I'm given back to you as you were teaching me some techniques. But the SPL meter and pink noise got me. In pro tools, I adjusted the gain in the tracks with pink noise. No Faders. If wondering about the gain in pro tools. If you right-click on the clip. Look for clip gain. Believe me, some people do not know that. Thanks, bro!
Very interesting Michael, thanks for the video!
I haven’t been sold on the idea either, it struck me that perhaps it would be useful in some sense for balancing the essential elements of the middle (kick, bass, vocals etc.), but I wonder are reference tracks and speakers/headphones always going to be king in this regard?
Thanks Again 🤓
IJL Audio I think reference tracks and a good ear are always going to win over tricks like this!
Thanks for the unbiased perspective 🤓
🤘🏻
Your method relies on the perceived loudness of the pink noise against the perceived loudness of each track.
I think it’s been pointed out already but had you side chained the pink noise to a spectrograph instead of listening to it and getting ear fatigue, you could assess levels for each ‘segment’ of the frequency in terms of dBfs matching
Not sure which one is the more valid but people seem to swear by it.
There is a misunderstanding in using this technique. The pink noise doesn't work in your place and balances your mix, but it's more like a reference track in terms of right volume and range frequencies . Of course mixing the song It depends on you, on your taste. It's a limit point, you know that you can lower your fader but not increase the gain. I read somewhere also that it's better to start lowering not the fader of the mix but the gain of the audio track or plug-in itself, in other words you have to work on the gain of the source, similar to gain staging. In this way when you can only lower the fader of the mi and never increase and facing the risk to go over the reference zone of the pink noise. For better explanation I can suggest this article I found: www.soundonsound.com/techniques/mixing-pink-noise-reference
Hi. It is a must to listen when u gstaging? Maybe you just can check the faders. and cut the volume from interface. And later just adjust Its dat ok ? Or is more complex and you must listen.
Maybe that's just a way to "test" your mix like to use the mono button.
Nothing more than that.
ANother great video from you man.
Thanx a lot
you can just put it in the master during mastering and eq match it in fab filter pro q 3 and set the dry wet of the eq.
I fixed the mixing of an old track in like 2 minutes using pink noise mixing then eq matching, y'all tripping. My shit ended up sounding clean af
For reals for reals
Post a link
U one of the best teach I have met on you mtube
Vraiment, tu fais du bon boulot. You do a good job for people. Thank you sir.
I feel like pink noise would only be appropriate to use for calibrating speakers, whether it'd be for the studio or live. Then just do the static mix by ear depending on your taste. If I were to use this technique, I'd probably try doing it for certain elements in your track but not all of it. Maybe even in the mastered portion if you use a match eq. But even then I would only use it subtly.
it's genius that most engineers I've learned from discarded because of time constraints
Hi, I totally agree with you, I tried this technique, not so bad the results but I hoped more, Very boring ! Moreover, it is very important wich part, of the solo track, for the volume, we choose: normally most of us listen and compare for 10, maye 20 sec, not more ! I think it could be more interesting, by ears, (always with a calibrated set of studio monitor via a reference pink noise, Yes now :-D) a reference song to mimic the loudness of every instrument, don't you think so ? Thumb Up
There is a lot of misinformation about this technique online and I've seen this process in action behind the scenes with great success, oh and BTW, in some prominent studios... To be honest, listening to pink noise isn"t actually how I've seen this work best but using the pink noise curve as a reference point and prior to any eqiing will achieve best results... One of the biggest things I found helpful when I first started out mixing live and recorded music more than 20 yrs ago, along with referencing commercially released music was, Ear training and how the different elements relate to each other in a great mix... However, not everyone's brain can wrap around this concept and how to use it in context...
How would you suggest using the technique properly? I hope you are able to reply, as I am very interested
The key to any mix is Proper Gain Staging....I to make this somewhat simple, just think of pink noise as a curve that represents a " flat" balanced mix across the spectrum... Using an spectrum analyzer may be easier... I start by concentrating on the focus of the mix/song such as kick, snare, vocals, bass and heavy guitars etc and then fit everything around these key elements... Use an analyzer with a pink noise reference curve in octave mode (Ozone 7-8) so you can see the frequency range that pops out above this curve... Key points, do it at the start of your mix after panning and before any Eq... I generally mix at low levels and between -6 to -8db on my DAW starting with drums and bass then vocals... Get your drums and bass/808 right, everything else just seems to fall in place... This subject is deep and I could go on but hopefully this is a start... After a while your ears will get use to the relationship between different sound elements and frequencies , especially on the monitors and room you're in... Compare a lot of reference songs you like... I have key songs I go to for Vocals, low end, Drums etc... If you're mixing EDM, reference EDM and so on .. Hope this helps..
Of course, it was difficult to track what you're saying after the tuft note ✂️😁🙈
I also don't really understand why this technic might be useful. At least for me... It certainly doesn't work when you have a big project (50+ tracks). It might work with a few tracks, like from those mixingwithpinknoise videos. But if there are just a few tracks, I can do mixing in seconds without pink noise then.. ))
I tried this technique on an instrumental I'd already mixed so I could compare.. the one I mixed by ear sounds alot better and feels it, my pink mix I'll say sounded flat and worse
Congrats on the 100K!! chips and cider for everyone 😃