JFK Controller GETS IRRITATED with confused Azerbaijan Pilot!
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- Опубликовано: 23 апр 2024
- When Azerbaijan Airlines (AZUL 101) checked in with approach runway 31R was closed so they were assigned 31L. 31R opened soon after but AHY101 was never told to change to it so it ended with some confusion when they were cleared for ILS 31R.
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• JFK Controller GETS IR...
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"Approach clearance cancelled" - that's all it would take. Standard phraseology exists for a reason.
100% correct. Lackadaisical controlling.
Agree 100%. Controller caused the problem, and then started barking like a cowboy to “spin you around”. What kind of banter is that. I’d definitely be asking for a number for possible ATC deviation.
Since when is "I'm going to spin you" in the FAA approved phraseology - typical arrogant JFK smartass
"Cancel approach clearance
Radar vectors for ILS 31 RIGHT"
That crew were set up for 31L and then had to change runways due to ATC confusion - they were at fault for not rejecting confused and contradictory approach instructions and starting again
@@pchris6662
And how about the multiple times he was told to go to 040 and repeated 31 right?
@@neilkurzman4907 As far as he was concerned, he was cleared for the approach, so getting turned 90 degrees off the final approach course would be confusing as all hell. All the controller had to say was "Approach clearance cancelled, turn right heading 040."
You can't say "I'm gonna spin ya" to a pilot who knows just enough English for standard phraseology. No wonder the Azerbaijani pilot was confused.
And the four times he was told to go to 040 and excepted it was that an English issue also?
@@neilkurzman4907 He should've said approach clearance canceled four times instead.
@@KrsnamVJm
Apparently, he had plenty of time to salvage it. And actually did. So I guess the ATC controller didn’t want the extra work of him going around again
This controller doesn’t need good luck he needs a few days off
He needs to spend a few days in Europe to learn standard phraseology.
*years
They were initially cleared for 31L, but without explanation, ATC moved them to 31R... Poorly handled by ATC...
The pilot had ATIS saying 31R was closed. ATC gives him 31L a few times. Then tells him 31R. Then gets pissed off when they sounds a bit confuse by 31R.
The frustration is that the AZUL pilot is probably used to European/Asian standards, where ATC is much more formal than the US- you would never get a "maintain 2", for example, in Euro/Asia- so the direction from approach wasn't in any familiar format, but rather "cowboy style", as my British pilot friend would say. In the rest of the world, you can pretty much count on the same verbiage, same direction, same everything from every controller no matter where you are. AZUL probably heard that he was to turn 40 degrees to intercept 31R, but the controller wanted him to keep going through the ILS and come around for a new try. ATC was frustrated because ATC always get frustrated when you don't do what they want you to do, regardless of who it is. I'm sure New York is easily triggered by oversees carriers because those guys don't always pick up on America's flavor of ATC direction (yee haw!).
Couldn’t agree more.. also “im gonna have to SPIN you” is not an aviation terminology
I'm not in aviation. But have there not been several accidents when ATC or pilots failed to use standard terminology?
SPIN me? I'm minimum fuel! 🤣😂
Giddy up on that 040 101 - chop chop.
@@Flight_Follower ב''ה, I have no idea what I just listened to, but while Steve could be entertaining, it does help to have a (proper New Yorker's) feel for "Simple English" and what words are likely to be understood. There's an official dictionary/phrasebook for aviation, right?
As ATCO with 15 years of experience a can tell you this frazelogy is very poor.
All they had to say was " runway change, it's now 31 right . ILS approach 31 left canceled . There will be radar vectors for ILS 31R"
Controllers at JFK are shocking. Should be retrained
They are just fine. They are New Yorkers.
@@RLTtizME They think the are very sophisticated but are actually provincial in their thinking. Which means they think they know everything but actually know nothing. The armpit of the universe is NYC.
I'm not in aviation. Pretty obvious that ATC was unclear and contradictory.
Contradictory no they said expect 31 left. They didn’t say he was guaranteed it. It was given plenty of notice that the runway changed to 31 right
@@neilkurzman4907bullshit, his runway change wasn't a direct instruction, when something is changed it has to be instructed as a change. This controller was unprofessional! The spin ya message should be ringing alarm bells in the FAA!
I might be wrong here, but early on in this exchange the controller had the flight setting up for 31L and reinforced that like 3 times. Then the controller changed the runway after being told "fyi 31R is showing open, that could be confusing". Ya think? Then the pilot(s) begin getting barked at for setting up on a runway approach that they were told to follow. One of the other pilots needed to tell this guy to take a deep breath and understand he or the airport created the mess.
And how many times did the pilot repeat 31 right?
If he doesn’t know the difference difference between left and right, that’s on him
Agreed. I heard the controller tell the Azerbijan pilot many times, early on, to use the 31L approach. The Azerbijan pilot confirmed that. After the aircraft has been given an approach clearance, and the pilot has confirmed it, and the aircraft is confirmed to actually be on the correct approach that they were cleared for, then I would think that the blame for this confusion should be on the approach controller.
I speak good English however that controller confused me too
What a magnificent work on part of the controller sorting out the mess the controller created while creating only a bit more mess.
The controller sounded a bit like Kennedy Steve, only on a bad day.
New York TRACON controllers and JAX center go hand in hand in being some of the worst controllers in the country.
All ATCs fault - I hope the tapes were pulled and an apology made to the Pilot in due course.
I think both the pilot and the ATC were more concerned with what they were going to say that they didn't listen closely to the other. There were opportunities for both parties to ask for clarification.
When I looked at the radar tracking of this flight, the pilot was zig-zagging on his approach instead of completing his turn to heading 040.
If you look at the track, he wasn't zip-zagging. He was aligned correctly with 31L as assigned, and then when approach switched him to 31R, he sidestepped to the right and aligned with the 31R localizer. The issue was that approach decided to box him around for the approach again, either for spacing or approach was assuming he wasn't established.
@@sintillate1913 But the pilot told him he was, in fact, established.
Air traffic needs to go back to class for one more semester.
😆
FYI the callsign for Azerbaijan Airlines is AZAL.
AZUL is a completely different callsign for a Brazilian airline.
I thought it was a spirit in Ghostbusters.
@@countryfucius - Are you the Keymaster?
Unnecessary frustration by the controller. Just do your job in a professional and respectful manner, please.
U are right
Seems that airport always raises blood pressure. I was watching the Dreamlifter depart from Anchorage, and it was so relaxing, then listened to NYC and ugh 😬
@@craigmiller332 what do you expect? They are understaffed and underpaid
So when the controller tells the aircraft to change course multiple times and they don’t do it, it’s the controllers problem?
A little bossy there.
I'm gonna have to side with the pilot on this one. That controller is usually better than this.
It is New York . . . . Car54 where are you?
Behind Delta Tug 3, of course.
In all fairness, I’m sure the ATIS listing the wrong runway confused everyone. From there the mistakes started cascading. In airspace like NY, there are a lot of different accents and the controllers speak fast. You have to be on top of your game at all times. Including the controllers.
Why get so pissy ? It does no good at all , only makes the situation worse - 101 was initially
Cleared in for the left side . Just confusion , that’s all . ATC is there to help & eliminate
Confusion …. Do your job or bail , simple . Don’t act like a prick and make things worse .
Apparently flight was slow to turn , probably due to auto system …?
Was thinking the same. They were absolutely cleared for 31L initially, so its fairly understandable that the unannounced change was confusing
NY Tracon controllers are God's gift. Just ask them.
I've heard airline crews say they would rather have their balls in a blender than operate in and out of the NY metro area.
Yeah ATC cleared and was confirmed for 31L. Changed it and was confirmed to 31R. AZ didn't turn when directed. ATC got a bug and should have explained in a couple seconds. sheesh.
The pilot repeated 31 right multiple times and 040 multiple times but didn’t do it. And you blame the controller.
usually back the NY ATC but they did make the mistake
Callsign is AZAL btw
AZAL is the callsign, not AZUL!
It’s like pulling teeth!
Yikes! That's all I will say.
Sounded like an angry Mets fan.
I don't get it, why do we feel this pressing need to talk so fast on the radio? Yes, we have a busy airspace, but is repeating the same command 3-5 times over and over again quicker in any way than saying it once at a normal pace??
Dare I even think for a second that we should slow down and enunciate further when speaking to people who didn't start life speaking English? What are we doing in aviation these days... you don't get quality work without having quality communication. We also need to find a solution to the increasingly stressful environments our ATC's and pilots are subjected to. I have yet to hear an NYC controller that sound like they are in a low-stress state of mind. We have the ability to change that, but the industry doesn't see it as a priority. We can't afford to learn the hard way.
JFK had a clearance delivery control whom we named “Nancy Ratchet Jaw.” She talked so fast that it was not humanly possible to comprehend her issuances. Then; she would give subsequent clearances to other aircraft before we could jet the mic to read back the clearance. And, this was during ground stops.
you can stop dramatizing your content now; there was nothing said about anyone being "LOST". The very idea I'd subscribe to someone who does this is absurd, get your act together!
Sorry about that.. let me edit my title
Sincere apologies
Hunh? Who was confused? Who spoke incorrectly?
The controller. He uses incorrect phrases, and is rude and aggressive.
This kind of crap will get somebody killed in a crash.
OMG...drama queen.
@@RLTtizME If you don't recognize the seriousness of this kind of crap you don't need to be anywhere close to an airport.
@@guitarhillbilly1482 Your Mom always said that you love to scold others...at least until you got punched in the school yard. Repeating...you are a drama queen.
@@guitarhillbilly1482 Your scoldings are always exhilarating. More please.
Instead of trying to make these controllers use standard ICAO language, it would be easier if every pilot flying there watched these RUclips videos to know what to expect. 😂 I used to be based there and you get used to this mess.
Controller should find a new job, he clearly hates this one.
It's New York - welcome to the city that never sleeps and always has a chip on it's shoulder.
Shit JFK controller DID clear him ILS 31 LEFT initially and then denied it
What has happened to ATC stsndards in US recently ?
And how many times did the controller confirm that it was 31 right and the pilot said 31 right
America sets the standard Orville.
Jerk ATC. Retire, quit, whatever. Clear communication barrier and all he does is get mad.
He’s actually pretty amazing. I really enjoy working when he’s on.
This controller is making things difficult for himself
ATC is causing the confusion... and then gets cross with AZUL... sad.