2020 Toyota Supra - Worth Hype & Hate? | Everyday Driver
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- We were among the first journalists to drive the new Toyota GR Supra and spent time on roads and track discussing many of the internet's complaints about the car. Is this Supra worth the hate and questions it's gotten so far, and can it possibly live up to the hype of the 4th generation? Here's what you need to know.
Join us as we discover the new Supra in real time. Thanks for watching!
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Do I wish it was a Toyota-only project, yes. Am I glad it exists, absolutely! Everyday Driver ftw 🏆
Out of about 20 channels that are reviewing this car I picked to watch you guys first. You guys bring a much better perspective to the cars you review. I actually picked you guys over the smoking tire. I’m going to watch that one next and skip a lot of channels like the dude in blue 🤷♂️.
Edit.. after watching the review I was not disappointed one bit. Glad I watched this one first.
preludeF20Bking same here.
it was a tough call for me between speed academy and everyday driver... in the end this channel won out 😂 So many supra videos out right now
Undr Grnd I’m definitely watching speed academy after the smoking tire. I like their style of reviewing cars.
i go by order of search... but please stop talking over each other...
I watched Edmunds first, only because it was earlier on my list.
I don't care that it's not purely a Toyota. But the fact that it's tied up with a modern BMW platform is .. not great.
The thing about Toyota, especially their 4 and 6 pots, is that they're sturdy, simple designs with widely available parts and affordable maintenance overall. With the 2JZ of course in the MK4, you had also a motor that could take a ton of extra boost and abuse, be easily rebuilt, etc.
With the B5830M1 from BMW, you're talking a really sweet running thing out of the box. Nice turbo design gives you low end torque and flat powerband, just nice characteristics. However, this is also a platform that is immensely complicated with assloads of sensors, jam packed in the engine compartment with nary a mosquito's nutsack of room to work on it. Oh, and you're going to need to maintain this thing.
Look up 'BMW B58 Vanos' on google. You'll see info on the Vanos seals. The Vanos timing chain is on the BACK of the motor. This means Vanos service at that level requires removing the entire engine from the vehicle. Wheeee. Vanos seals wear out between 25-50k on average. If you OBD one of these guys and see '2A82' or '2A87', welp, there ya go.
This is kind of crazy, because Vanos is just BMW's variant of a variable valve timing tech, eg; Honda VTEC, Toyota VVTi, Mitsubishi MiVec, etc. Only with BMW, it's extra touchy and costly to maintain.
Now, this will be a great fun car I'm sure. Hell, I like BMWs too. But I think the people who like BMWs the most are those that can afford to lease them, then throw them back in the pond after a year or two and onto their next toy. Your long-term buyers will have to really bear down, or may be in for some painful times in the future.
Mark my words, by the time 5 years are up on these hitting the streets, they will be known WIDELY as the most expensive to maintain, touchy Toyota-branded vehicle of all time. These are dropping in the ~$50k range, so that means by 2024 used ones will be below $20k, and be a pretty terrible idea for someone to buy at that point, because it will be just like most used BMW/Audi used vehicles and secondhand buyers : you may be able to afford to BUY a $10k-$20k used one, but you may not be able to afford to OWN one, lol. Strong DIY'ers however, may be in good shape, especially if they have access to the right tools, and are ready to learn some oddities of working on this stuff.
Thor Aackerlund Toyota insisted on doing its own QC on every non-Toyota component (literally) down to the nuts and bolts (as they insisted on a material change on several retainer bolts in the engine bay for example). Any “known” durability issue with any of the components that go into building this car, I guarantee you, were FIXED or it didn’t go onto the car. Toyota Brass are insanely insane about and unimaginably aware about quirky flaws like the one you just mentioned. There were even engine internal components (can’t remember exactly which component, I read about it a couple weeks back) that Toyota engineers had insisted be redesigned/strengthened, specifically because they understood their many of the customer base buyer for this car would be modifying and increasing power output. I think the amount of thought and level of expected quality demanded for this car is widely being underestimated, spite having taken SO DAMN LONG to design and build. This in my opinion is going to be one of “those cars”, joining only a handful of FE RWD that have timeless value for its performance, reliability and beauty. My gut just tells me this car is a special one...and I thought I was going to be disappointed or flat out hate it.
The motor is still oriented in the exact same manner, and still has the Vanos system pinned near the firewall.
It's gonna be nice, but I can't help but think the 3UR-FE could have been a great option for the new Supra. N/A model same price, 381hp, 401tq, and make a FI model with the existing TRD kit for 504hp/550tq. It's a superb platform. Same weight dressed as the B58 turbo, similar size, less complexity, easier to maintain (don't have to remove the motor for Vanos service interval).
finally someone showing some sense about the partnerships its just part of the parcel now
If the car wasn't named the supra and instead was named something else itd do great. the only reason people hate it cus it takes of of their favorite cars name.
valentineAirsoft people need to drive it lol. Its pretty much a supra. Rwd, inline 6
They should've support the Supra in the 90s then, but they didn't.
valentineAirsoft I agree. Toyota didn't name the 86 Celica. They should have called this car the 172.
valentineAirsoft there would be nowhere near the hate but neither the hype too if they called it something else.
@@hpickettz34 They did not sell and they were over $50K in top trim back then.
17:01 It is built by Magna Steyr, the same company that builds the G-wagen. It is not built in a BMW factory. Manga builds the BMW 5, Z4, Toyota Supra, Jaguar I & E Pace, Mercedes G.
Didn't know that thanks
Yup I noticed that too, kind of an error in their part
@CLP that is why it is a nice car
You wrote Magna, and my eyes registered Manga. Gundam-Supra 🤷🏿♂️
Exactly. ruclips.net/video/_jbyzmtgU_0/видео.html
2018 equivalent of $50,000 in 1996 dollars: $79,828. CPI source: Federal Reserve.
I hope you are saving in silver, rather than US dollars.
I think you got it backwards though. It should be, $50k in 1996 is the equivalent to $79k in 2018.
@@lucaswilliams9234 lol what Dane said is correct. You're both saying the same thing. He wrote it a diff way but still means the same
The 2020 MKV Supra aren't selling for $50K though dealers have been getting $65-$75K and more for the past few months now. Average MKV Supra on sale now is $72K so quite relative to $50K in 1996.
@@ELECTRICEYEMEDIA I just checked my local Toyota dealership. 2020 Supra markup for the Premium model is $5k. I can still wait for below MSRP prices though.
I’m really excited about this car but equally excited that Todd and Paul have another RUclips review out - these guys have a way of speaking that is really informative but not boring
Don’t know why everyone is all upset about the BMW collaboration. Two of the greatest sports car companies of all time got together to make two great mid-priced sports cars. That’s a win for the enthusiast... not a negative
It is a fan boy thing......
I enjoy BMWs, and I respect Toyotas. However, 100 times out of 100, unless it was a lease, I'd rather own a Toyota vs a BMW. Or a Honda vs an Audi, etc.
Because I know that in terms of 'just working', your typical Honda/Toyota, hell even Nissan/Mazda, is going to work pretty well for 100-200k miles with only minor maintenance if you take decent care of it and follow your maintenance intervals (which won't be that expensive to follow).
With BMW, you're dealing with a LOT more risk in terms of maintenance prices, parts prices, difficulty in accessing things (Vanos system / seals replacement is on the rear of the motor, requiring full engine removal for service), and just general PITA factor long term.
For your average wealthy BMW leaser, this is a non-factor. Some people dump their car every year or two, and that's fine. It's down the line that things get dicey. I don't think we're going to see a wealth of these things on the road long term, and those that do survive will do so by being well-loved and cared for by experts.
Let's be honest Toyota partnered with one of the greatest sports car companies.
They partnered in all the wrong ways they just put the Toyota badge on different body panels. They needed something to differentiate their car from BMW like a dual clutch transmission or a manual.
jlopez1017d I think we aren’t being fair to the business realities. Given where sports car sales are, there is no way anybody would bring a car to market on own. It seems like Toyota developed their own transmission programming, exhaust note, steering tuning, etc. cars nowadays are so software driven that the same platform can yield entirely different machines. Eg, VWs MQB platform underpins econo boxes and $80k Audi’s all of which drive differently. I actually admire Toyota for doing the car at all - they won’t make money on it. They’re doing their best to keep enthusiasts happy. Sad reality is, most Supra enthusiasts won’t be able to afford a $50k+ dedicated sports car. On the margin, this is a hard car to sell... similar money yields a corvette, an M2, used cayman, used f-type, etc
These are just a few examples of the typical A80 fanboy. Now, before I continue I just want to say that the JZA80 Supra is a fantastic machine & it’s worthy of praise. BUT, the community has inflated the hype surrounding the A80 to the point of disbelief. Yes, it COULD be a Supercar Killer if you throw enough money at it but let’s be real the majority of A80 fanboys can’t even afford the A80’s steep $50,000 asking price let alone the mods to take it all the way to 1,000HP. You can’t deny that stock for stock the A80 would lose to a Mitsubishi EVO VIII CT9A or Porsche 911 996 around the track or the street. Yes, the A80 is legendary but the overly inflated hype surrounding it doesn’t justify the praise at all.
You could argue that it has a legacy but honestly it only has said legacy because of media. It did great in the JGTC (which the 2JZ was swapped in favor of the 3S-GTE due to the weight distribution NOT because the 2JZ was ‘too poweful for the JGTC’ lol) along with drag racing but most of the fanboys pretend like it’s the end all be all car of our time! No, it isn’t. Not for the $50,000 a used automatic twin turbo goes for nowadays. What does this have to do with the new A90? The Egos of the fanboys won’t admit that the new A90 deserves the name ‘Supra’ because it isn’t Japanese made. Well, if you wanted to should’ve let Toyota continue with boring economy cars then! Stop bitching, wait & see but if you don’t like what you see piss off & spend a very unreasonable amount of money on the A80. NOBODY IS TELLING YOU BABIES TO BUY THE NEW SUPRA! It’s like the GT86/86/FR-S/BRZ all over again! “The 86 needs more power!” I mean, with that logic the original AE86 needed more power from factory back in 1983 then! I swear the fan base for the A80 is just as bad as the Halo 3 fan base... if you don’t like my comment then too bad deal with it but I noticed that the more & more time goes on the more toxic the automotive community becomes just because some of us don’t share your opinions lol.
Also, if you complain that this has a BMW I6 & not the fabled ‘3JZ’ you were hoping for then tough! BMW is one of a few companies that make great I6 engines & if Toyota dropped a motor into this vehicle it would’ve probably been a V6 out of a Tacoma or something because remember rather it’s Nissan’s L20 series or VG/VQ series motors THESE COMPANIES BACK IN THE DAY DID NOT MAKE A ‘SPECIAL’ MOTOR JUST FOR THIER SPORTS CARS! The VG/VQ & JZ series motors were in saloons & higher end luxury cars too you know in order to keep development cost low.
The 2JZ-GTE is a legendary & bulletproof motor & combined with the A80 its a killer combo but we keeping things stock for this conversation because if we were talking modified then why complain about the A90 in the first place? Any car can be fast when modified yes but I don’t see the A80 holding any top spots for major time attack events because the Evos & STis have that covered oh & before you get mad about me comparing the Evo VIII & GDB STi to the A80 despite said rally cars being about 10+ years newer just remember that before you dish out that obscure amount of money on that JZA80 BEFORE mods. Honestly 90’s car vs 90’s car the NSX is the superior chassis due to the fact that the NSX NA1/NA2 has a dedicated chassis when compared to the A80 because it uses a pre-existing chassis shared with the Toyota Soarer/Lexus SC JZZ30. Hey, at least the A90 Supra didn’t become a front-wheel drive economy box like most muscle cars did after the fuel crisis & didn’t repeat the mistake of the Corolla & Celica (switching to FWD) in the late 80’s. It has the basic Supra formula at least! Long hood, I6 Turbo, RWD, Short deck & gorgeous along with evolved lines of the A80. All I offer you is the truth nothing more.
Btw, I put a lot of effort in this post because I believe that every car ever made has a reason to be on this earth. Rather it’s a hit or a Ford Pinto the beauty of the automobile is a combination of many peoples from many different backgrounds yet we take this for granted everyday because we are jaded. If you are passionate about automobiles then you’ll have an open mind not a one tracked mind. I hope my post can make you at least see why we need to let it be & accept that this is our new Supra. But, opinions are like a**holes right? Everybody has one.
Magical Mysteria I love this rant!!!
Ross Bourne there are probably PT Cruiser fans out there but I don’t give them a hard time because they feel strongly & passionate about said car. If you love the A80 then hell yeah enjoy it! But, the moment you start judging something for not being a ‘true successor’ they you gotta eat your words, do your research & wise up.
The counter argument is that why have brands. Go full swing the other direction. All manufactures just create on single sports car. Humans are inherently tribal, they like to root for a sport team. For some people that's car brands, the'll stick by them even if it's not the best team, but it's the team they love.
@Ross Bourne Of course, I think people are just emotional because they held the car close to their hearts and feel betrayed. The people saying it's crap are obviously wrong, they're just upset. If no one cared about the Supra no one would have any emotional response to Toyota bringing the name back. This current reaction was a given.
So much truth in this post! Also wanted to mention that Everyday Driver made a damn good point towards the beginning of their video that often gets overlooked, and that is the majority of people were not even purchasing the MKIV because of it's astronomical price tag at the time...approx. $50k MSRP in the 90s. It wasn't until The Fast & The Furious that catapulted the Supra to fanboy status - for better and in some cases for worse.
'm just gonna say this, about the fake vents. According to Toyota, they were on purpose cos they said this car was designed to be modified so when you put a bigger engine or a turbo all the fake vents can be opened up for more cooling. I learnt this from the interview that TFL car gave the Chief Engineer. Hate it or not, this car is stunning and by partnering with BMW, they make the car cheap (in sports car terms), and I think it looks good and if it doesn't, I believe it would grow on you. Nice work
Yeah, when i heard the chief engineer said that, i was blown about how they thought about all that. Even the crease for strut bar. well done i would say
@@kickof1 Like fr, its crazy, how they thought if all that yet people just complain, cos of the engine and interior
@@alwaysiyi272 because they're just dumb fanboys.
I learned to spell in the second grade.
@@alwaysiyi272 no hard feelings for the engine. But I was bit disappointed with the interior as it doesn't look like a cockpit type like the mk4. Pretty much straight forward I would say. Still it's made of good material so I wouldn't complain.
I wonder why all you car people never asked why Toyota never looked at their Lexus range of cars to be made into the Supra?
Maybe due to price range they were targeting.
Also the only viable Lexus platforms would be either the RC or the LC platforms both of which weigh 3700-4000lbs. At that weight they would no longer be able to benchmark against the Cayman.
Too heavy.
The supra was heavy and duller than their competitors, but it had a jewel of an engine, that's waiting to be modded. The RCF is heavy and duller than their competitors, but is has a jewel of an engine, that's waiting to be modded.
Sounds similar; different times different sizes engines technology, but it carries the same soul; many people people don't see that.
@@MrSuperrajab Thank you for seeing it this way. A lot of people does not understand that the Supra was mainly about the engine & the looks but not much else. It is hardly the handling machines like the NSX or RX7. Or even be an all rounder like the GTR. But its tuning for power potential is second to none.
I’m fine with it being a Toyota with collaboration with BMW, but they didn’t have to call it a Supra.
Well said
Wahh wahhh
"A rose is a rose by any other name."
Stephen Hendricks agreed
They didn’t need to call BRZ a 86 either but nostalgia makes money
It is a Z4 so the whole sitting on the rear axel is a given, I love that buy my question is was the original Supra like that? . Also bmw will release a coupe though. Also people attack the partnership but the fact is the bmw motor already is a modern 2JZ from a macro standpoint, Toyota Came in and breathed on all of it, none of the engine internals were approved until they met Toyota’s reliability standards. Bmw didn’t suddenly decide to make a motor with forged internals out of nowhere, so they effectively got an infusion of cash and Toyota engineering applied to the development of the motor and that’s exactly what we should want.
Bmw is great with chassis’, so that doesn’t need much Toyota help, we got a solid offering from this partnership and it makes more sense to me than the Subaru Toyota offering, nationalities aside
Fee Exactly...the engine internals is the best debate stopper.
The chassis was a joint venture, it is as much bmw as it is toyota.
I can't help wondering how it'll do when inevitably put in a brz with the manual transmission conversion bell housings we all know are coming. It'd be like a modern, much faster, if much heavier 240z.
90s JDMs are still better than today. NSX, R34 GTR, Supra, 3000GT, STI, EVO, RX7, from the late 90s are still very good performance cars even today.
100 percent, the older JDM cars are SO MUCH BETTER.....
I doubt any 90s jdm cars will touch the new Supra on a track.
Yes and no. that's like saying a Gameboy is better than a Nintendo Switch.
Vision33r still very good performance cars today? that's a joke right? Sure if you mod them, but in stock form they are damn slow... most sedans or luxury SUV's are quicker. Back in the day they were quick but today in stock form you'd be surprised how slow they are compared to modern cars.
Never said they aren't fun though
@@hpickettz34 I'm pretty sure the new Supra will beat them all stock vs stock. That's not the point. The value isn't the same.
1:01 - let the basically 25 year price comparison sink in for a minute ($50k vs $50k). has this happened with any automobile ever...? the MSRP for a new GTR has easily DOUBLED in just 10 years.
$50,000 back when the MKIV A80 Supra was new adjusted for inflation is equal to $81,400 2019 money
The whole reason the MKIV Supra was killed off was because it was too expensive and nobody was buying it. They learned an important lesson about the value of a Toyota sports car back then.
Japan Government got more greedy @@EUC-lid
FT1 is so so much nicer, especially from the front. They really took out the lines from the FT1 in the front. The rear looks decently close.
Art Solano those mirrors were a work of art. I understand you aren’t going to get that car for 50k but one can dream
I dig this car. It seems to do out of the box what I had to spend money on control arms and sway bars to get my BMW to do on the track (based on this and other channel's reviews). I am a BMW own (2) and love their products and the driving experience AND track experience. For a small amount of money (say, $5k) you can make this a 500+ HP car that will run all day long. I'm excited for this car and genuinely happy it exists. Can't wait to see one in the real and drive one!!
Happy to be watching EDD’s review/coverage before anyone else’s...these guys have become my go-to source for car info!
I like the fact that you guys often have different opinions, but still back up your points and have reasonable discussion. Some channels just sound too boring, or one-sided.
15:14 "I hate to say this, but most people are going to buy this and commute in it." That's exactly why I think a BMW 440i is better, same engine but more power for daily use, more comfort, and no dealer price hike from the hype.
Im SO impressed and disappointed that you are so disconnected from car culture that you think the Supra is a legend because of Fast n Furious, did you not grow up liking cars? Are you under 20? Is your education on cars based on the ridiculous content of donut media? The Supra was chosen for the movie because it was already a legend in the tuning scene, not the other way around, the Supra became a legend because simple mods would generate great ganes in hp, and for not allot of money Supras were destroying everything on the road back then. Unless you are 20 you should know this,, or you really didnt care about cars, because you didnt even needed to be in the tuning scene to know about the monster Supras back then, the ones that inspired the movie, not the other way around.
This comment needs more up votes!
GRRB SsssssssssssyyyyOUCH, you’re so right...yikes. I love this fucking car. I haven’t instantly wanted to sleep with a car on first sight until the new Supra. All the purists, crying over the power plant can’t also claim to be a pure sports car enthusiast, because this is going to be one of those timeless cars.
The Supra IS a legend because of those movies. I owned two MKIV's and hardly anyone batted an eye until those movies came out. Additionally, they didn't begin to go up in price until the movies. The movies have built up the Supra so much that any replacement would not live up to it. The Supra was great for its time, but its not as untouchable as people make it out to be.
Finally, it's the reason why anyone kept comparing Supras to GTRs even though it's competitor was the 300Z.
because if they talk too much crap, they wont be invited again.
Yes I agree, if I am spending 55k Corvette will be on my shortlist.
Mine too, but so would the Supra
Elephant in the room is the GT350... especially slightly used for less $$ than a new Supra. 500+ hp, manual, excellent drivers car, V8 sound screaming over 8000rpm.
+Alex R For sure. Much better bargain.
Great argument. Those gt350s are sweet.
the gt350 engine alone is worth it
They stopped selling in 98, the last year model for the US. Not 96.
Who cares
Anthony Figueroa just an observation by him. Don’t be a dick
@@DDM7406 he can't be a dick if he doesn't have one
I think 96 was the last year it was sold in Canada
You people are human sewage
Still cannot get over how the concept looks in comparison to what was released. Forever I will remember the disappointment I felt.
Jack Jones you’re correct, this car is 100% different from the concept though
I wish Toyota teamed up with Porsche lol
Nah
Then it would have a 4-cyl, no front engine and cost at least 10k more...
Probably that would be next halo car, lmao!
Imagine toyota team up with honda
They already teamed up with them in the past and taught the Germans how to manufacture reliable cars! Fact! Still mad at Toyota as they have the lfa, one of the best 6 and 4 cyl. Motors you really need BMWs help? NO!
When the manual comes.....I’m sold!
"The reality of sports cars moving forward..." Mazda is just over in the corner like... uhhh guys, here's how it's done.
True, heavy-ass turbo automatics don't do much to enjoyment of driving
@@after_midnight9592? Really? I'd love to see you sit in one getting blasted 0-150 and not crack a smile. Especially lightly modded.
The Yaris is already a mazda 2. :)
@Maheshan Govender had the same experience when someone told me my new kia stinger wasn't good or fun becuase it was a Kia and an auto, same kid wanted one after I took him for a run down the street. Crazy what 500hp will do to make you laugh (yes my car is modded intakes exhaust and tune)
with their 2.5 180 hp engine🤭🤭🤭
Ahh times before covid…… such a beautiful times. Will never be same!
Why not talk about the 370Z as a competitor. The Nismo is $47k and it makes about the same amount of power. little longer wheelbase, more than a little shorter overall. Is the Supra that much older that it's not worth talking about the Z?
The 370z could be compared, but it's hard to get one over 50k, where this car starts. We like the 370z, but it's an old car at this point and not much more refined than it was a decade ago. As a result, we generally only recommend the Z car as a used buy. Thanks for watching!
This new supra would sh*t all over the nismo 370z in every category. Plus, the Z needs a new modern design.
Look at the 0-60 times. This is way faster. 1) bmw underrates power. Look dynos on stock b58 engines 2) this engine is turbo and has huge torques down low 3) this has more gears and a faster gearbox which will make it faster too.
Also way more tuning potential than the Z.
@@mdcohen I'm not much on 0-60. Sports cars are about feel and control for me. Drag racing bang/buck is much better with a Camaro or Mustang.
@@EverydayDriver Refined in what way? Are these cars any better as pure driving performance cars than the Z because of essentially aesthetic improvements? The Z ticks the right boxes at the right price and is a good example of form following function where less can be more.
These two has the most awkward chemistry...its like a husband and wife agreeing with each other just to avoid a argument when they completely disagree with each other if that makes sense
Despite Paul's effervescent cheerleading, I'm only lukewarm on the car. Sure it looks great, and I loved the feedback from the video, but I agree with what Todd was suggesting: this is a BMW with some Toyota tuning and a Japanese Frock. My problem is not about collaboration, it's about who did what on this car. I'll concede BMW has ample engineering prowess, but over the last 20 years, BMW's are only as good as the length of the warranty. Otherwise, they're incredibly expensive to keep running--those German parts are quite pricy and they seem to break... a lot. Toyota's are typically bulletproof well beyond their warranties. And there's the rub. This is no Toyota. If I bought this car, it would be with the plan to sell it before the warranty expires.
And how could you possibly know this? Have you had the car 3-5 years into the future and can speak on the reliability of this car? You need to realize that BMW didn't hold a gun to Toyota's head and force them to sell this car. Toyota had a say in what goes into the car, and I hardly think a company that is known for their near-religious reliability would sign off on a car that isn't tested to be reliable to their standards.
@@rousseau327 Track record, that's how. Why expect the BMW components in Toyota to be more reliable than the BMW components in a BMW? That's ludicrous. But by all means, you buy one and find out for us.
@@TheArkDoc LOL, that's a load of horseshit if I've ever seen any. I'm not saying anything about the reliability of this Supra, but as someone who does work in engineering and technology, that's sometimes does collaborations in projects with other companies, a company of the size of Toyota would not simply do something as stupid as sign off on a car that is not reliable, especially if their entire marketing point is inexpensive cars that will last you for the next 10 years or more without breaking a sweat.
And you speak of track record, which by the way, there is none. When was the last time Toyota and BMW collaborated to do something like this? You think BMW doesn't know how to make reliable cars? You think Japanese automakers have some sort of secret sauce that makes their cars reliable, or their engineers are somehow geniuses over BMWs? BMW does HAVE TO make their own cars as reliable, because their target market doesn't keep their cars past the warranty period as often as Toyota's market does. It's a completely different ball game, when BMW is making cars for that is to be used as a Toyota, versus BMW making cars that are to be branded as a BMW.
There's no evidence that the Supra will be reliable, but there also nothing saying that it won't.
ewt415 dude you’re full of shit. BMW’s are not reliable and are more expensive to keep up. I’m driving a 2007 V6 Avalon with 188,000 mile on it right now and it drives brand new and has never had major work done on it. That might be a dismissible anecdotal story if there weren’t a million other similar stories about Toyotas. We’ve all heard and seen an equal amount of opposite stories about BMWs. I can afford this Supra and have been patiently waiting for this car and I will not be buying it thanks to the engine. If it had the BMW interior and a Toyota engine I wouldn’t care, but it doesn’t.
If you would of read more reviews. Toyota made sure all the parts where up to Toyota standards.. and that meant taking them apart.
I still remember when you first started your channel, and look at you now. Whether you know it or not, you inspired me to start my channel. Hopefully in two years I’ll get my million subscriber play button! Thanks for everything!
I'm waiting for the 6 sp manual....for now i'll keep my manual miata.....
I got mine in yellow and it's been fantastic. Most people compliment the color over the car itself! First track day in a few weeks, I can't wait.
I wasn't a huge fan of the styling at first, but I think it's already starting to grow on me. The front/headlights look amazing at the slightly-high 3/4 view
It's gonna take a longer time for the tail end though
Tail (ignoring the fake vents) is the best part of the car for me.
The back is quite striking while the front headlight area is so dull and lame
Wait until you ride in one or drive one. You will be a converted fan for life this I promise you.
Im like alot of people on here and out of all the reviews of the new supra this is the most thought out review. You guys always bring in the best perspective.
looks like a really fun car but without 3 pedals it'll never be fun enough. hopefully toyota figures that out.
Jonathan Lindhome If/when the manual comes out. I’ll get one
I mean ZF8 ain’t bad though...
Drive it first
It is a difficult situation, do you want to go fast, or do you want to think you are going fast? Joking aside, some people feel a manual is more engaging, but honestly in my opinion shifting gears takes your hands off the wheel and gets you head out of driving. A great automatic adds to the driving enjoyment.
@@krackalgleason4746 They want to feel like in The fast and the furious where they bang like 10 gears before going up in flames.
You nailed it. No matter what Toyota would have done, people would not have been happy with this car. I've owned 2 MKIV's and they were great cars and I loved them, but they simply are not as big as people make them out to be. Not to mention how expensive the MKIV was. My last one had a MSRP of over $40k which translates to over $63k today. The thing I do like about BMW setups is that the torque comes on so early. The MKIV, even in stock form, didn't hit boost until midway through the rev range. This is why this car is so much faster than the MKIV. The majority of MKIV's were also automatic. In 1996, there were no manuals made at all. Here's hoping they follow the example back in 1997 and pump out some manuals after fan feedback! Thanks for actually providing an unbiased review. I'm cross shopping this one between the C8, GT350, and a couple others and love all the info I can get! You guys are definitely at the top of my list of reviewers.
I couldnt give two turds about it being a re-badged BMW... great looking car
I hope tomorrow is a more productive day for your bowels.
@@maxnix346 not if rebadging is being digested
Looks like a cool Scion
Still a bmw. Car will break down in 1 day lmao
First super review for me, big fan of the show.
Fun to see you guys on a track I've actually been on. Nice work as always!
It needs a manual option, but other than that, I love it! All you mk4 crybabies get in a time machine. The mk4 wasn't crap until tuners got to it. This car will be a MONSTER once people start tuning and modding it.
Civics became monsters once tuners got them
Cant beleive sports cars are being made without a manual option these days. So sad :(
Fast and Furios made the supra pupolar, correct just GT car with super strong motor. Supra fanboys think this car is on Nissan GT-R level. Sorry is not =/
@Jonathan Bowen just to give you insight on how tunable the B58 closed deck motor is without internal work check out Albon and his 2jz, B58 breakdown. The B58 and S55 has already achieved 800hp reliably without internal work. Google BMW Shogun, F80 vs the world, Pure Turbo F80, and many many others. There's already S55 which is closed deck like the B58 motors with 1200hp. The iron block is gone because of newer better technology which is lighter and just as strong. IE..Nissan Gtr motors which achieve ridiculous hp without an iron block, carbon fiber which is stronger and lighter than steel and other advancements in technology. If you need any help finding those let me know. Oh yeah I also speak from experience (thumbnail). Here is a Mark IV owners opinion on the matter.
ruclips.net/video/83hisrsiRmY/видео.html
@@samuelgee-delgado3213 Unfortunately that's due to sales. Most people who can drive manuals are older now and they dont want the hassle of shifting. They are also the crowd that are buying new cars so when most fans cry for a manual but waiting for the used market the manufacturers are going to make what sells most.
Beautiful car, add a third pedal option and they will hit a home run.
Alan Chiu EXACTLY
Hopefully it's in the works
Too slow. This should’ve been the original 86 priced at 40k and it would sell like hot cakes.
And a 2j swap. It's not a supra unless it has a jz engine.
This is a z4 not a supra
@@quantillimoconcordion2412 I get where your coming from but the 2j is a 10 year old engine. Tech has changed a ton and from an engineering standpoint it doesnt make sense.
But what we all really wanted regardless of cost was a gtr, nsx rival. The car is fantastic, however it does not live up to the name.
Iamthesnowhunter Supra never competed with gtr/nsx it was 300zx/rx7 3000gt competitor
Regardless of cost? LMAO then what’s the point of Toyota making a gen5 Supra if people don’t buy it? People don’t have the $ to buy a “regardless of cost” 2 seater.
@@AlbertLara 70000ca -100000$ca not that much different its already an expensive car. That gap is not going to make a difference if its affordable for the average joe lol. If it was priced like a mustang or camaro it would be a different story.
@@bman1668 I had never considered that, thanks for bringing that up! more of a gt sports car!
A GTR is priced at $100k and a NSX is priced at $157k
The upcoming Supra is $55k. If they made a Supra that was between $100k and $157k, how many people would be able to buy it?
Left the Savagegeese livestream once I saw your video drop. Viewer since the beginning.
I wish people would just f*** off on the whole "collaboration" thing.
So many cars are combinations of manufacturers / engines / ideas / etc... Ford+Mazda, Audi+VW+Lambo etc... so why is this such a big freaking deal.
But Audi and Lambo are the owned by VW, so it’s not really a collab. Ford & Mazda ended theirs.
I never drove a beemer Z I liked, but I never drove one nearly this fast. I would also never spend this amount of money on a car knowing I'd be spending countless hours and thousands of dollars also voiding the warranty with a transmission swap. So much more better to go get an already excellent M3. But, I would still like to see a head to head comparison to the BMW's it's derived from and maybe some it isn't.
Clearly it's a decent sports car. Clearly it isn't a Supra. What I want to know is if it brings extra to the table vs other beemers. And you guys are the right people in the right place to do it.
Please? :D
Curious why they didn't want to use the LC500 as a platform. The Lc500 is such a beautiful car.
The LC is a six figure car. That platform would have made this car far more than the ~50k this BMW based one is
LC was not part of the join venture... They do had plan for that platform but it not going to be 50k car...
Cost cost cost they wanna make it accessible to most people
All valid points, not a hug fan of the design is all. If you follow TheFastSupra on Instagram he plans on taking a LC500 and doing a supra inspired build 👍instagram.com/thatfastsupra?igshid=1czuupqwwtzgl
So this video has me looking up wheelbase numbers. LC500 is 113”! Porsche Cayenne is 113.9”. They were going for a nimble sports car.
I saw the discussion with the chief engineer and translator talked to you guys where they discuss why they did what they did, why air intakes are small and lots of plastic, etc. They also talked about how they left a lot on the table for tuners, 500-700HP capabilities, stabilizing bars, trans cooler, larger cooling capabilities, making blocked intakes functional, on and on and on. I've seen a few reviews and including you guys, no one has included that discourse which I have to say is a disservice to the people watching and the future "wantability" for the platform.
I have a feeling that a sports car like this that isn't a super or hyper car really needs a manual transmission.
seriously what a letdown… i was looking forward to a 6 speed
@@kevinli9126 Why? There is no advantage to a manual.
Manual is just for fun factor. This transmission will shift faster than a pro racer, and autos will sell more.
Derek V. Vue of course but this is a fun GT/sports car & definitely not a super/hyper car that needs to have lightning shifts so owners can brag about 0-60 times. The Supra is obviously more comparable to a Cayman or Nissan 370 Z both of which are more coveted in manuals.
@@Loopsrainforest At $50k, this is no high school ride.
I've been a Japanese car guy pretty much my whole life, and I've owned the same Datsun 240Z for almost 40 years now. But when I wanted to get a new sports car, much to my surprise, I ended up buying a 2018 Camaro SS 1LE, and I have zero regrets that I didn't wait for the Supra. My Camaro was $15,000 less than what the Supra will cost here in Canada, but will outperform it in every way!
So after all these years the so called supra can destroy a Mazda miata
Not a competitor.
@spencer bancroft kind of make sense since the original A80 MKIV Supra competitor was a 300ZX Fairlady Z32......*DEJA VU*
I still don't see why you would go for this when you can get a new M2 or RS3 for around the same price and they both have 400+hp and strong aftermarket.
Because Toyota engineers so much more than horsepower into their cars. Look at the 86. It has no power and still puts a huge smile on my face every day
M2 is $9k more. RS3 is more $6k more and it's a sedan and doesn't have over 400hp (close enough though). There will be stronger aftermarket for the Supra as well. Supra will be quite a bit lighter too. It's for a different target customer, like me. :D I'm cross shopping this one between the new C8 (depending on final price) and the GT350, among others.
The MKV Supra smashes both M2 and RS3. I see your comment was from 5 months ages, so maybe recently you have been watching all the videos exposing how much power the MKV is putting down stock and with just basic bolt-ons. For just $900 my MKV Supra is almost running 10's on the drag strip and rapes a few supercars in the canyons and from rolls on the highways. In just a few months we will see 800-1000hp MKV Supras embarrassing supercars just like the MKIV did back in 2001 once the tuners unlocked it's potential.
I glad im not alone being in love with the yellow!
It's not built by BMW in Austria, it's built by Magna Steyr - the same manufacturer that builds the G-Class, the 5-Series, the Z4, the Jaguar I-Pace and E-Pace.
Been waiting for this. Quality video guys! Thanks!
The first 1min and 10 seconds of this video is so spot on!
The last gen Supra ended production in 98 not 96.
Yeah right in US then in Japan it lasted until 2002.
Yea, Toyota didn’t want to deal with OBD2 fiasco with Supra when they weren’t sold well in the State.
@@weakneerose7614 Exactly! This is the main reason why it was out of the question to try to update the 2JZ, Toyota already knew they could not get it to pass emissions restrictions back then.
I'm extremely late to the party with my viewing and my commenting but this is seriously one of the best commentaries that I have seen on the new GR Supra. As always, great job to the Everyday Driver team and thanks for doing this!
Was it really a collaboration? It's so much BMW it feels like they built a Z4 and licensed the Supra name.
Two misgivings: no manual transmission, no 2+2 seating. Otherwise, it would be a beautiful BMW Supra
Yea... this aint swaying me from a C7 Z51
Not even a Corvette fan, but would definitely go that route....
'ATTA BOY.
Go for it.
The Supra might be easier to drive. different beasts for different markets.
Different horses for different courses. I think this short wheelbase would be fun. Engine, looks, three pedals go the Chevy though.
One detail that bugs me about the interior, that I've never heard anyone else mention, is how the screen and the vents are center aligned, but the climate control section isn't. The individual modules hint at symmetry, only there is no apparent center alignment. Maybe I'm "seeing it wrong". As a designer myself, it's just kinda screaming at me.
I can’t unsee this now. So thanks for that. 😕
@@forzaviola9512 I'm surprised I haven't heard anyone else point it out yet. As a designer, prior to studying individual components, I instinctively process the broader design at a glance to ensure a cohesive and well balanced overall aesthetic
Holy shit. Thanks for mentioning/shooting the practicality (because everyone is so hyped over how it drives, they've forgotten).
That is WAY tighter and less practical than I was expecting. A 50k Toyota that is that impractical.....that's tough. Even for the track enthusiasts, that's not enough space for tires - at least the 86 was big enough for that. So either you have the money for towing/trailer, or you're buying a 50k Toyota to commute in....man. That's a tough pill to swallow. Trying to not get too political, but I think that wages have been too stagnant to justify a limited-practicality 50k car. 40k STi's/GolfR's/etc are helped in that they can be your only car and still be practical, but this? It will be interesting to see how it does on the market.
Practical and sport car are words that don't mix. You have some need to have a car seat or something?
You cant compare this beauty to a golf or STI. This is a true sports car, aight nobody got time for space lol
But, seriously you might have to install a hitch or something if you wanna drive this to the track by yourself. Maybe toyota assumed people had friends to haul everything in another vehicle or rich enough to haul it to the track lol
Just go to the track with a friend and put tyres In his car...
@@tomassanguinetti6414 this car is racists against people with no friends
I also waited for you guys to make a review before watching any other channel. You guys do a really great job of communicating everything about a car that in a way puts it into the context of the automotive industry. Awesome job.
I'm upset all my favorite auto you tubers like you all were at my home track and I didn't get to meet you all.. At least I get to go to summit shenedoah in 2 weeks.. They should have done summit main for the supra..
Reality I am not happy about collaboration, but Toyota factories are full capacity. I still think they should have built in on their own, or don't bring at all.
I prefer the 1993+ Older model
Speaking as a '013 C6Z owner, I find this new Supra extremely compelling. BMW Toyota validated engine, Toyota levels of quality and long term electrics reliability, $50K price, I can see where any sports car enthusiast would dive into this car. For me...well...I'm waiting to see what you guys say about the new C8. And I'm personally awaiting arrival of the C8Z. That being said, this new Supra seems like an amazing car for the price....with 300,000 + mile Toyota durability. This is THE only Toyota I'd buy.
It's Actually a modern interpretation of the Toyota GT2000 (2-seater HTop) .... Not a Supra in any way shape or form!
i love how honest and mutual these guys are with their opinions. great video
Finally a Toyota with a nice interior, thanks BMW.
These guys and Engineering Explained are at the top for logic-based car content
Really scared of the reliability on this one. Just think how great it would be if it was completely Toyota designed and built. My experience with BMW beyond the 5 year mark has been poor (granted I’ve only had one 330ci but still), and my research of the reliability of BMW is not good either. I will say though it’s not the engine of the BMW that seems to be a problem, it’s usually everything surrounding the engine, and maybe, just maybe Toyota took care of all of that.
I’d honestly be scared of the post warranty period driving this out of the showroom. I haven’t heard a review mention this yet, probably because BMW would stop letting them review cars if they did.
Exactly what I was thinking (everything around the engine). Before my current car, I had a 2006 325ci with 60k miles on it. Excellent/showroom condition. Needed new spark plugs (no big deal). Then it needed a new front right caliper. Then the fuel pump went out and left me stranded in the middle of an intersection. The final straw? The starter went out and I checked all websites and stores. Couldn't find it under $550. Parts are expensive. Good thing I'm handy with a wrench (mechanic for 8 years). I can't imagine paying the dealership or a local shop for repairs. After that I was done. Went straight to the dealership and traded it in. Never again.
color grading! second to none as always! a thing I never think about when watching anyone else's channel, except how much better your footy is in comparison
So happy that the two of you were there to voice your thoughts on the car. With your own money, would you rather buy an M2 or Supra?
supra
Corvette
Supra
People comment how fantastic the Aston Martins 4 litre v8 twin turbo engine is and don’t make any fuss about it and it’s a Mercedes engine but when Toyota do it it’s bleat bleat bleat!! What Toyota Supra owners and fans should be thinking is lm getting 2 YEARS extra warranty over a BMW Z4 owner 🤔
This does not compete with Corvette esp since the new C8 will be mid-rear-engined. Supra customers historically do not cross-shop with Corvette.
Loved the back and forth during the whole video. Y’all take disagreement well!
Let's see... 55,000/5/12 = $917 per month not including interest and other fees... Welp I'm not getting one of these any time soon!
There will be plenty of idiots that we'll get in debt over this BMW
It's quite a bit cheaper than the MKIV was.
@@Jaylyons1 Not really. MKIV Supra was roughly the same price as the Corvette of the time, this new Supra is within 10% of a new Corvette.
The A90 supra is a car that people love to hate yet at the same time its better than the crappy cars the haters drive
In my eyes it should of been built to compete against the Nissan GTR! Can’t even compare now.....imagine this car chasing a gtr on the Nurburgring lol 😂
Yea. Don't know what they were thinking.
A way to ruin an iconic name in cars. It's like a hopped up Celica.
supra is a sport car...
It’s less than half the cost of a GTR, I prefer this car that I could actually afford. That being said I won’t be buying because of that engine.
Supra rz 4.448.000yen / r34 gtr 5.555.000 yen/ 300zx tt 4.700.000yen brand new
I love your advert at the end! Great synopsis of how much you guys actually do!
Fwiw i enjoyed seeing you two in the car together....both on the street and the track...you should do that more often ....one of the more enjoyable formats....
Agreed
Your comment about how it looks in different colors is absolutely on point!
Am I the only one that thinks this car just isn't good looking
snowpaletehdog nope. It’s okay to not like it when we have seen the FT1 and are given this thing that looks pinched/melted looking and is shorter-wheelbased than 86. I am no engineer or designer, I can’t deny maybe dynamically this is great, but I can say, the look just doesn’t work for me
Not a fan of all the later to be exploited fake scoops and vents, but in the colors here, looks sharp. View from the inside is pretty good. Organization of the dash and instruments is light years better than Gen IV.
It looks hideous compared to the ft1 concept
The back looks great the front however looks like something a kid would make in a "create a car" video game or something
It's crazy to say this car hasn't been released. Everyone with a 1-series, 2, 3, 4, 5 and Z-series already has one. And they've already tuned it.
Where's the manual transmission? Same reason the GTR doesn't have one.
Agreed it needs a manual option, but if they had no intention to ever do it in a manual then it should have at least had a dual-clutch
Dude with the gear rations, powerband Of a Gtr a manual will slow it down badly.. It just wouldn't make sense...No new lambos & Ferraris have manual transmissions for a reason..
All you old Manual Transmission Lover the Human Brain to hand is Way slower than the Computer Shifts The Human Could never even the Fastest Shifter In the World Cannot Shift the Gears in Milliseconds But The PDK Transmission Can and That is why They are Stop Making Manual Transmissions cause over time in a Race the manual Trans is Going To lose over a Period of time Slower Shifts = up to Slower Speeds ....Making the Car Manufacturers Fast car look seconds slower!!! And The Manufacturer always put more Horses in the Automatics ? But I always Preferred Automatics and I can Drive Either but I know Science Too!
@@flyguy456thetechnicsking3 they need to just stick to older manual cars or choose another new car with a manual 🤷🏿♂️
@@flyguy456thetechnicsking3 But do you know how to use capitalization? :) No offense meant. I happen to agree with your point.
I wonder how the Supra would stack up against a Camaro SS 1LE and and a Shelby GT350 (non R) . They are close enough in price (45k for the 1LE and $59k for GT350)
I think the 1LE would smoke this car. It comes with those fat Eagle F1’s and makes a ton of power. The Supra certainly doesn’t come with 305s and doesn’t have the top end power. GT 350 would also smoke it.
cutthroat795 That’s what I figured but BMW engines are generally underrated. Honestly if I had the money I’d have one of each.
Not sure others reason for not liking the bmw engine, but I don't like it because bmw is not reliable. At all. It's a lease operation. Toyota is forever.
Toyota made sure I'd would last like that they made BMW re-make so many time and time and time again so at it would reach an extremely reliability, so that it wouldn't be like BMW engines that aren't reliable Tada-san said so. Watch. More videos and actually research instead of just assuming. I Don't mean to offend you. But really do and you will be amazed.
Emanuel Torres
No need to respond to these kind of post, I would say 99% of people hating on BMW engines or new Supra are the people who drive beat up car who’s not even on the market or never owned either bimmer nor MKIV
Only thing I wanted was the cockpit from the previous generation Supra. I still love how it was angled to suit the driver. May have to custom build one if I buy this Supra.
Why does this Z4 have less horsepower?
I like the BMW climate control panel with real buttons and dials. "Slow" cars are great on that track. I learned to drive my miata there. I commute in Washington DC area traffic with a manual transmission. Too bad the manual is dying off.
Eight Six = Hachi Roku (the correct name of the car)
Eighty Six = Hachi Ju Roku
They should have kept the FT1 concept look. Most people with $50,000 to spend on a car will go for better options...
1. Tesla model 3
2. Lexus RC
3. Nissan 370
I don't think anyone is cross shopping the Model 3 with any of the cars you mentioned. The RC is a very different car, and the 370Z is a 10 yr old car at this point.
I'm very glad Toyota collaborated with BMW to build this. If not, the Supra would probably used the Lexus RC platform... big, heavy, and sluggish.
Tonite's tea corner I’m ok with them sharing the platform. But the motor???
The 3.5TT from the LS would have been great!
Tonite's tea corner there's the new RWD TNGA-N platform. Toyota is the 2nd largest car company in the world. They could have made it but decided not to. The New Supra is great, but if anything, the customer who buys it will fall in love with the BMW components. Their next car maybe a BMW, not a Toyota, since there's nothing in their lineup with this feel or components. Long term Winner will be BMW. In a nutshell. The new Supra is priced right and drives great. We will see how the future pans out.
It should have used the Lexus LC platform as that is the true sucessor to the Supra lineage not this rebadged BMW. I say this as a former MK3/4 Supra owner and current LC500 owner, it feels, looks, performs and handles just like a modernized MK4 Supra.
@@llynellyn Funny how you'd rather them build it on top of a heavy, luxury GT car, rather than something that's lighter and more nimble.
Watching them praise the automatic transmission in this car is great. But the 86 uses the same dedicated automatic transmission tuning and everyone unanimously hates it. Down to the “letting it think by itself” part. Oh well.
I had an Frs and I thought the Automatic was genius. Best automatic out there.
Darren MacWhirter I’ve owned both the auto and manual and the car is still just as fun with either. It’s an everyday joy.
@@ivanzavala307 I've never driven the manual but hopefully will get one in the next couple of years. I can't imagine how good it must be cause it was damn good for an auto
Darren MacWhirter If you do get one, the very first thing I recommend getting is the TRD Quickshifter. It makes the shifter input match the feel for the rest of the car.
@@ivanzavala307 I will keep that in mind, thanks.
Everyone always comes back to "this would be better if it was pure Toyota," and point to the MK4 Supra, but completely ignore the fact that the 2JZ was engineered and built with Yamaha and the transmission in the MK4 was engineered and built by Getrag.
Get your stories straight, people!
You know that Yamaha has had a partnership with Toyota for almost 60 years.Toyota is a big share holder of Yamaha, of course they'd use them. And Yamaha only did the head design for the 1JZ, Toyota built and manufactured the engine. Then when they went to the 2JZ it was 100% Toyota.
Toyota almost owns Yamaha and heve been partners forever.
It would have been a pure Japanese car. Not this half breed mutt they gave us
Wish the suspension performance + ride on the back road and steering feel would have been mentioned to see if Toyota would be able to do something about BMW's notoriously numb steering rack. Nice vid.! Can hardly wait for a comparison drive against Cayman and Stingray.