Great video. Very informative. I purchased a Bb ophicleide a year ago to play in orchestral works as I am involved in several amateur orchestras. Now if we can rehearse and perform again, after covid, I'll have a lot of fun.
This is a new one on me! Wow, thanks for your detailed explanation and coverage of this funny solution to a problem better solved by other technologies.
I remember vividly being criticized for playing Midsummernight’s Dream Overture on euphonium. Thanks for your clarity that it is a more appropriate substitute for ophecleide. Conductors and certain colleagues are often wrong but never in doubt.
To answer your question at the end: Yes, I absolutely like this kind of video, like many others here seem to like it! Only point of criticism: Watch out for your sound - the orchestra in the background sometimes was too loud, so that I could barely understand you, and the Ophicleide at the end was also very loud, compared to your voice. Greetings from Germany!
I have several comments on this video: 1. Yes, more videos like this one, please. 2. I stumbled on a youtube video of the relevant section in the Symphonie Fantastique. The sound of the serpent/ophicleide duo is striking and very appropriate to the music. 3. Is there a high-school band out there where someone has NOT stuck a bassoon reed into a trombone and made a tromboon? It's perfectly reasonable to imagine that an instrument maker would try different mouthpieces, just as you did.
The point number two would be, ironically, go against Berlioz wishes, he later replaced the serpent with a second ophicleide, so this option will be the correct way to go (at least for historically accurate ensembles).
Thanks for such an excellent session on this interesting and maybe pivotal instrument. You might be interested in the Horniman Museum in South London which has the old Boosey and Hawkes museum inside. All kinds of oddities there.
just FYI a lot of woodwinds have a key that opens a tone hole. Some have a key that closes one hole and opens a different hole at the same time. Oboes have several keys in the last group. It's one of the reasons that oboes are so difficult to maintain. The low Bb key on my contrabassoon closes three holes on the left tube and then has two levers that jump over the middle tube to close a hole on the rightmost tube (the bell).
2:34 I love how they used George III as “all things German” Yes he was King of Hanover, the first in fact, but unlike his father and grandfather, he only spoke English and didn’t even visit Hanover once!
As a tuba, euphonium, ophicleide and saxophone player, I found this video interesting. I will, however, note (as some others have done) that the quality and effectiveness of this video is undermined by the poor camera angle, and being much to close to show what us being discussed, and poorly 'mic-ed' such that the audio is distorted, which is not good when demonstrating musical instruments. I also thought that some of the still photos used over the narration were not well-selected to support what was being said. For example, one of the photos that popped up when the serpent was first being mentioned was not of a serpent, and another was a poorly drawn example of a serpent....with so many good images of serpents being available, it boggles the mind why these particular images were selected. And when Verdi's use of the ophicleide is mentioned, and it is noted that he referred to it as "cimbasso", a photo of an actual Cimbasso is shown instead of an ophicleide, and with no narration to mention how this might lead to confusion. I wish you would have mentioned the 'make' of your ophicleide.....I assume it to be a Wessex, but maybe it is a Schiller? I know these brands, but if you are going to mention reproduction ophicleides, it would have been useful to give some hint of where they can be obtained. Regarding the whole 'did the saxophone descend from the ophicleide, my own research involving Sax's writings, biographies of Sax, and dissertations by others on this subject, I agree that there appears to be absolutely no evidence to suggest that Sax based his Saxophone on the ophicleide, or even got an "a-ha!" moment after plugging a clarinet mouthpiece onto an ophicleide. Certainly, Adolphe Sax knew about ophicleide, but the whole way that woodwinds work is so foreign to how ophicleide work, and what Sax's goal was (to design a family of loud, robust woodwind instruments that would be suitable for outdoor use, by military musicians wearing gloves) was not going to be met by starting with an ophicleide and slapping a reed mouthpiece on it. In fact, although an ophicleide will make sounds with a reed mouthpiece on it, it cannot be played musically and automatically over a useful range that way. The ophicleide requires the kind of embouchure control that a player's lips on a cup mouthpiece has, but a reed mouthpiece does not.
@@yaboi-km2qn , you are very incorrect. Obviously you are not very familiar with the ophicleide! The Saxophone works like other woodwind instruments, with an all holes open ADDITIVE sytem. The ophicleide, with the exception of the single bell hole, has an all holes closed SUBTRACTIVE system. On the Sax, the player puts down fingers to lower the pitch and there are no repeated fingering patterns within an octave. The ophicleide player chooses from a small number of open hole options and it is more like a valve system.
@@youtuuba I recall that James Morrison remarked upon this unusual characteristic of the ophicleide when playing it for the first time (probably), as shown in this video - ruclips.net/video/0uuus2cXzRY/видео.html skip to about 2:00 to see him play the instrument
Huh. I had no idea how this instrument worked; just seeing the keys I assumed it was like a woodwind and that closing them increased the length of the instrument!! Nope!! Fascinating that it operates on pedal tones, and now I want to try one.
Is there a chance you’ll ever do a video on the trombone family?or more particularly I’ve always wondered about the historical use of the contrabass and where it stands today.
I second the motion; trombones and their long history would be fascinating. (Including the contrabass.) Tubas, particularly their early development and use, would be another interesting low brass topic.
Actually, what Berlioz is getting at in his orchestration treatise's description of the serpent is that -- as you allude to earlier in your video -- it was used to support the singing of Gregorian chant. Its use in the Dies Iræ passage in the final movement of the Symphonie Fantastique is meant to depict, quite realistically, the singing of that chant -- the Sequence of the Requiem Mass -- at a funeral (in this case, that of the "artist" subject of the Symphonie, who was executed in the previous movement for murdering his lover).
When did the modern cimbasso come into existence? Is it easy to determine that Verdi intended an ophicleide rather than something like a modern cimbasso? Perhaps a euphonium is a more accurate substitution for ophicleide, but for those composers who scored lower than optimal for it out of wishful thinking, a bass tuba better fills the role they wanted it to.
I've not followed the "Great Cimbasso Debate" in ages, but back when I did, a valved bass trombone had become a legit contender. Whether that still holds true I've no idea.
It's always worth considering the role of the ophicleide in France and the development of the French Tuba in 8-foot C. As a tuba player, much of the work of Berlioz is better-suited to a euphonium than the bass and certainly the contrabass tuba. Certainly, a tuba player can muscle their way through a lot of Berlioz' work, but is that a musical or a machismo endeavor? The French tuba is also seeing a resurgence in interest.
Has anyone taken up the task of redesigning the key system? The sound in the upper register would surely make it worth investing the effort in improving the instrument.
I’d long heard the instrument name , ophicleide, but only earlier this year did I ever really hear one. It strikes me as and overall good-sounding instrument, except that the low-register, being essentially a pedal tone, sounds a bit overly “lippy.”
I love the video, BUT there is a bit of a competitions between your voice and the background music at some points. I am struggling to hear you speak against the music.
Bass English Horn is a Cor Anglais (woodwind), while English Bass Horn is a horn (brass). Each instrument serves as the bass voice of its respective family, but just because they are both called "bass" doesn't mean they cover the same pitch range. I'm not sure if this clears up the confusion, or just adds something new to get confused by!
@@BretNewtonComposer When I was in 5th grade and first starting out in band I wanted to play the Euphonium, but the school I was in had run out of them but they had a baritone horn they let me use. Outside of that I've watched mostly videos on such instrument, such as the ones on Trent Hamilton's channel. I played what he calls an "American-style baritone"
pukalo [CDN] that instrument is an American style Euphonium and isn’t a true Baritone Horn at all (assuming you’re talking about the tilt bell instrument popular in the 50s and 60s).
Til trods for din store viden om instrumentet ville det have været godt, om du undervejs gav eksempler på instrumentet, så man kunne høre lidt mere af dens klang i begge registre.
Sucks it came out of fashion. I play Tuba, but I kind of wish this was standardized so that every Tuba player would also play this. It has a very interesting sound, much less warm than the Tuba, but nevertheless greatly beautiful
I am watching three years after your post. The audio quality makes the whole thing unintelligible, with your voice either soft and garbled or completely inaudible.
Great video! Really like this documentary style video. Would love to see more videos like this discussing other weird instruments.
If there's enough interest I will. Even covering some more common ones too.
Fantastic, super thorough lecture…thank you!
Great video. Very informative. I purchased a Bb ophicleide a year ago to play in orchestral works as I am involved in several amateur orchestras. Now if we can rehearse and perform again, after covid, I'll have a lot of fun.
Really? that's awsome! Where did you find one?
evelotionary dead ends always seem to produce curiously viable exemplars for their present, just not for their future. a great & informative video!
I really like these type of videos where you do an overview on an instrument.
This is a new one on me! Wow, thanks for your detailed explanation and coverage of this funny solution to a problem better solved by other technologies.
I've been considering getting an ophicleide. Now I know I want to get one, plus a barry sax mouthpiece.
I very much enjoyed this video, learning the history of instruments is really cool
I remember vividly being criticized for playing Midsummernight’s Dream Overture on euphonium. Thanks for your clarity that it is a more appropriate substitute for ophecleide. Conductors and certain colleagues are often wrong but never in doubt.
More on the ophicleide, please. But any instrument and its history done this way would be worth watching.
Thanks. I love the history of musical instruments.
To answer your question at the end: Yes, I absolutely like this kind of video, like many others here seem to like it! Only point of criticism: Watch out for your sound - the orchestra in the background sometimes was too loud, so that I could barely understand you, and the Ophicleide at the end was also very loud, compared to your voice.
Greetings from Germany!
I have several comments on this video:
1. Yes, more videos like this one, please.
2. I stumbled on a youtube video of the relevant section in the Symphonie Fantastique. The sound of the serpent/ophicleide duo is striking and very appropriate to the music.
3. Is there a high-school band out there where someone has NOT stuck a bassoon reed into a trombone and made a tromboon?
It's perfectly reasonable to imagine that an instrument maker would try different mouthpieces, just as you did.
The point number two would be, ironically, go against Berlioz wishes, he later replaced the serpent with a second ophicleide, so this option will be the correct way to go (at least for historically accurate ensembles).
Thanks for such an excellent session on this interesting and maybe pivotal instrument. You might be interested in the Horniman Museum in South London which has the old Boosey and Hawkes museum inside. All kinds of oddities there.
just FYI a lot of woodwinds have a key that opens a tone hole. Some have a key that closes one hole and opens a different hole at the same time. Oboes have several keys in the last group. It's one of the reasons that oboes are so difficult to maintain. The low Bb key on my contrabassoon closes three holes on the left tube and then has two levers that jump over the middle tube to close a hole on the rightmost tube (the bell).
I believe the saxophone also uses the same keywork as the oboe.
2:34 I love how they used George III as “all things German” Yes he was King of Hanover, the first in fact, but unlike his father and grandfather, he only spoke English and didn’t even visit Hanover once!
Great lecture. Many thanks.
As a tuba, euphonium, ophicleide and saxophone player, I found this video interesting.
I will, however, note (as some others have done) that the quality and effectiveness of this video is undermined by the poor camera angle, and being much to close to show what us being discussed, and poorly 'mic-ed' such that the audio is distorted, which is not good when demonstrating musical instruments.
I also thought that some of the still photos used over the narration were not well-selected to support what was being said. For example, one of the photos that popped up when the serpent was first being mentioned was not of a serpent, and another was a poorly drawn example of a serpent....with so many good images of serpents being available, it boggles the mind why these particular images were selected. And when Verdi's use of the ophicleide is mentioned, and it is noted that he referred to it as "cimbasso", a photo of an actual Cimbasso is shown instead of an ophicleide, and with no narration to mention how this might lead to confusion.
I wish you would have mentioned the 'make' of your ophicleide.....I assume it to be a Wessex, but maybe it is a Schiller? I know these brands, but if you are going to mention reproduction ophicleides, it would have been useful to give some hint of where they can be obtained.
Regarding the whole 'did the saxophone descend from the ophicleide, my own research involving Sax's writings, biographies of Sax, and dissertations by others on this subject, I agree that there appears to be absolutely no evidence to suggest that Sax based his Saxophone on the ophicleide, or even got an "a-ha!" moment after plugging a clarinet mouthpiece onto an ophicleide. Certainly, Adolphe Sax knew about ophicleide, but the whole way that woodwinds work is so foreign to how ophicleide work, and what Sax's goal was (to design a family of loud, robust woodwind instruments that would be suitable for outdoor use, by military musicians wearing gloves) was not going to be met by starting with an ophicleide and slapping a reed mouthpiece on it. In fact, although an ophicleide will make sounds with a reed mouthpiece on it, it cannot be played musically and automatically over a useful range that way. The ophicleide requires the kind of embouchure control that a player's lips on a cup mouthpiece has, but a reed mouthpiece does not.
the ophiclide and the saxophone work in the exact same way. The only difference is the way in which the standing wave inside the tube is produced.
@@yaboi-km2qn , you are very incorrect. Obviously you are not very familiar with the ophicleide!
The Saxophone works like other woodwind instruments, with an all holes open ADDITIVE sytem. The ophicleide, with the exception of the single bell hole, has an all holes closed SUBTRACTIVE system. On the Sax, the player puts down fingers to lower the pitch and there are no repeated fingering patterns within an octave. The ophicleide player chooses from a small number of open hole options and it is more like a valve system.
@@youtuuba I recall that James Morrison remarked upon this unusual characteristic of the ophicleide when playing it for the first time (probably), as shown in this video - ruclips.net/video/0uuus2cXzRY/видео.html
skip to about 2:00 to see him play the instrument
Huh. I had no idea how this instrument worked; just seeing the keys I assumed it was like a woodwind and that closing them increased the length of the instrument!! Nope!! Fascinating that it operates on pedal tones, and now I want to try one.
The opening musical bars are used at the start of Kubrick's The Shining.
Is there a chance you’ll ever do a video on the trombone family?or more particularly I’ve always wondered about the historical use of the contrabass and where it stands today.
That would be an interesting topic to tackle.
I second the motion; trombones and their long history would be fascinating. (Including the contrabass.)
Tubas, particularly their early development and use, would be another interesting low brass topic.
Actually, what Berlioz is getting at in his orchestration treatise's description of the serpent is that -- as you allude to earlier in your video -- it was used to support the singing of Gregorian chant. Its use in the Dies Iræ passage in the final movement of the Symphonie Fantastique is meant to depict, quite realistically, the singing of that chant -- the Sequence of the Requiem Mass -- at a funeral (in this case, that of the "artist" subject of the Symphonie, who was executed in the previous movement for murdering his lover).
Yes, I liked this video very much! Great work!
How about the keyed trumpet? Was that invented before the keyed bugle of the 19th century?
When did the modern cimbasso come into existence? Is it easy to determine that Verdi intended an ophicleide rather than something like a modern cimbasso?
Perhaps a euphonium is a more accurate substitution for ophicleide, but for those composers who scored lower than optimal for it out of wishful thinking, a bass tuba better fills the role they wanted it to.
I've not followed the "Great Cimbasso Debate" in ages, but back when I did, a valved bass trombone had become a legit contender. Whether that still holds true I've no idea.
That’s really cool. Where did you buy it???
It was actually a donation to my wind ensemble.
It's always worth considering the role of the ophicleide in France and the development of the French Tuba in 8-foot C. As a tuba player, much of the work of Berlioz is better-suited to a euphonium than the bass and certainly the contrabass tuba. Certainly, a tuba player can muscle their way through a lot of Berlioz' work, but is that a musical or a machismo endeavor? The French tuba is also seeing a resurgence in interest.
Has anyone taken up the task of redesigning the key system? The sound in the upper register would surely make it worth investing the effort in improving the instrument.
I’d long heard the instrument name , ophicleide, but only earlier this year did I ever really hear one. It strikes me as and overall good-sounding instrument, except that the low-register, being essentially a pedal tone, sounds a bit overly “lippy.”
I love the video, BUT there is a bit of a competitions between your voice and the background music at some points. I am struggling to hear you speak against the music.
Awesome video.🖐
“This gets called the English Bass Horn not to be confused with the Bass English Horn”
Wait seriously? How is that not confusing.
Bass English Horn is a Cor Anglais (woodwind), while English Bass Horn is a horn (brass). Each instrument serves as the bass voice of its respective family, but just because they are both called "bass" doesn't mean they cover the same pitch range.
I'm not sure if this clears up the confusion, or just adds something new to get confused by!
I used to have an "Ophicleide Girl" mug
Love the thumbnail
Why do you pronounce Giuseppe as giussèpi?
Sounds like a brass bassoon
Brassoon?
I would use a baritone horn as a substitute
Except that the Baritone Horn is much more cylindrical whereas the Euphonium is nearly as conical as the Ophicleide is.
@@BretNewtonComposer I know but in my own personal experience I find the baritone horn to sound more like the Ophicleide than the Euphonium does.
@@pukalo I'm wondering how much exposure you have to an actual Baritone Horn? On this side of the Atlantic, they're quite rare.
@@BretNewtonComposer When I was in 5th grade and first starting out in band I wanted to play the Euphonium, but the school I was in had run out of them but they had a baritone horn they let me use. Outside of that I've watched mostly videos on such instrument, such as the ones on Trent Hamilton's channel. I played what he calls an "American-style baritone"
pukalo [CDN] that instrument is an American style Euphonium and isn’t a true Baritone Horn at all (assuming you’re talking about the tilt bell instrument popular in the 50s and 60s).
Til trods for din store viden om instrumentet ville det have været godt, om du undervejs gav eksempler på instrumentet, så man kunne høre lidt mere af dens klang i begge registre.
Now tell us about the sarrusophone !!
Ophicleide is in a similar situation as the recorder, but better.
Wow!
George I rather than George III, I believe.
Sucks it came out of fashion. I play Tuba, but I kind of wish this was standardized so that every Tuba player would also play this. It has a very interesting sound, much less warm than the Tuba, but nevertheless greatly beautiful
Product of a forbidden and ungodly mating... The instrument is weird too.
The rise and fall the ophoclide
I am watching three years after your post. The audio quality makes the whole thing unintelligible, with your voice either soft and garbled or completely inaudible.
Stop saying Ophecleide!!