Watergate Review - One of the Best Two Player Games
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- Опубликовано: 19 сен 2019
- #boardgames #review #watergate
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I'm glad you liked it. I am proud to be part of this project (I researched and wrote the Watergame summary in the back which I hope you found useful). I too enjoy the game.
Phillip Millman Thank you, it’s an amazing game
Seconded, it's an absolutely fantastic game (and as a result of playing my 11 year old asked to watch 'All the Presidents Men' - who says board-games can't be educational).
Just finished reading the rule book. I found your historical background information thoroughly fascinating. Have you got any recommendations for books I could read about Watergate? Many thanks for your work. One of the best board game rule books I have read.
Congrats, you got involved in one of the best 2-player board games ever created. That's not something to sneeze at if you ask me.
I loved your inclusion in the rulebook! What a morbidly fascinating event
Watching this in America early Feb 2021 is a little extra surreal.
I have to imagine playing it is the same.
Well done.
What better way to show you're too young to remember the Watergate scandal than a Logan's Run reference.
I was probably destined to grow up loving SF but watching Logan's Run at the age of 10 was one of the things that definitely helped.
Thank you Efka. Twilight Struggle is one of my favourite games but so hard to bring to the table. Watergate seems more table-friendly and I trust you when you say its one of the best 2 player only games around. Putting it on my wishlist.
Nice one Efka! Your choice of games really sets you apart from all the other reviewers. In a good way
I mostly play two player games so this is great! I would love more videos like this!! Love what you do!!
Hail to the Thief? Is... is that a pun, Efka?!
Reminds me a lot of 13 days: The Cuban missile crisis. Which is also an excellent 2 only player game.
I was getting Twilight Struggle vibes.
Which game do you think is better/more strategic? 13 days or watergate?
@@NATOnova Both are pretty close. I think 13 days might be slightly more strategic with the hidden objective but I think Watergate is the better and more streamlined game.
I was constantly looking for rule clarifications with 13 days. That was not an issue with Watergate.
17! Square! Love it. Good job. Made me smile.
you are spot on with your breakdown of randomness in games.
Loved this review and your humour, got yourself a new subscriber 👍👌
The Logan's Run reference was brilliant!
I have been boring my friends stupid with how much I love this game, I'm so glad others are enjoying it too.
It's amazing design. After a few plays I've ordered Wir sind das Volk! too.
One of the more pleasant surprises for me this year... really great game.
Loving that Wingspan Canadian expansion in the back.
Definitely has a twilight struggle feel to it - with the dual purpose cards and the tactical push-pull interaction. Looks great!
On the other hand it makes me wonder whether I need another cold-war themed game with similar mechanics. By now there are several out there.
@@GeorgeplaysOfficial yeah as others have mentioned 13 Days is a good one i own so not sure i can justify this
Wow. That's one for the collection then. Splendid.
Your comment on the implementation of randomness in games was insightful.
Good review. Played it for the first time with my lovely wife. The setup was good cause I had watched a couple of videos so I would be at least a little familiar with the rules system. AND I read the rules and watched some RUclips - some helpful, some in no way helpful. This was a good, honest and funny review and I agree the author achieved replayability that will be the envy of many. Made me actually think about the combinations and that is always good for this style of game. I was glad I was Nixon and lost BTW:)
Great review NPI. I would urge you, if you haven't already, to look deeper at the historiography (or ludiography??) of Watergate. It is a descendent of Mark Herman's 1995 masterpiece We The People ("WtP;" reprinted as Washington's War), the progenitor of card driven wargames ("CDGs;" where all or nearly all actions on the board are dictated by the play of a card for its event or its operation ("Ops") value). Twilight Struggle ("TS") is itself one WtP's children and, as others have mentioned, Watergate is a clear descendent of TS (as is 13 Days and Wir Sind Das Volk).
Thus, given how blown away you were by Watergate, I recommend taking a gander at TS or Washington's War, TS' quick playing children (noted above and the slightly longer playing 1960: The Making of a President), TS's siblings - 1989 or Labyrinth and TS' uncles - Hannibal: Rome v Carthage, Wilderness War and For the People.
Once the pandemic fades away and one can meet up with friends again, I mightily suggest you add diplomatic tension to this genre of games by trying out these CDGs - Sword of Rome (4-5 players), Here I Stand (6 players) or Virgin Queen (4-6 players). Or you can rope in some friends on Zoom or the like and try these now via Vassal (vassalengine.org)
Hail to the Thief! well played!
Thanks for the review! I was kind of offended that you even mention this game in the same sentence as Munchkin! ;) It's part of the glorious genre of card-driven wargames/strategy games (happens to be my absolute favoruite genre) and it's never for a minute ocurred to me that they might have anything in common with Munchkin. It does sound at bit like this is the first time you've heard of these games, but surely you must have played Twilight Struggle, considering it was nr 1 on the geek for like four years?
Much thanks for the thoughtful review! This is definitely on my to-play list (in no small part because I'm a career journalist). Your declaration of it as the best two-player game makes me wonder how it would stand up to Targi for me.
*one of the best
@@NoPunIncluded I stand corrected! :) Which then makes me want to know how you think it compares to Targi, and if they scratch completely different 2-player itches?
Another interesting, historically based, two player game is "Dual Powers: Revolution 1917"
My partner and I got this game based on your recommendation and I gotta say, we love it. I am continuously impressed by how well balanced this game feels, while still being hugely punchy.
Nice! Glad you're enjoying it.
Just went to buy this, but no English version available anywhere in Europe, presumably because SU&SD just gave it a glowing review in the middle of lockdown :(
Have you played Wir Sind Das Volk?.. Thematic h2h card driven game of East vs West Germany? It's a very strong contender in the top 5 H2H games of relatively recent stuff imo (see also Polis:Rise of the Hegemony and Sekigahara)
Amazing. From the review it does fell more tight than Twillight Struggle.
Sounds like twilight struggle light.
Not a bad thing.
Twilight struggle could be a bit of a hard sell to people who play modern games but wouldn't call themselves "gamers". My friends and fiancee will play viticulture, fury of Dracula, and other games that are too much for a regular person. But even they would take a step back from twilight struggle. This, they could handle.
What I've heard, it's actually closer to Churchill than to TS. 13 Days is TS light for sure.
Mechanics sound very similar to Twilight Struggle; such as event vs momentum value (action value in TS)
when Efka says "...when you play a game that doesn't create anger and frustration but instead presents opportunities...", Innovation comes to my mind
NIce Radiohead.
I only come here for the album covers now ;-)
God damn that was an amazing review. The momentum of it combined with how fun but serious it is, how its not just taking the piss and not doing that youtuber yelling at you non stop thing is amazing. This isn't just a review of Watergate, its a review of NPI. Great review of mechanics, great review of the human element, and great review of the history. Its smart, witty, and well read without being snobby.
As Homer Simpson would say. "Its a boy. And what a boy!"
You sold me on the game. I can imagine a future game night starting with 1960 The Making of the President followed by Watergate. Two games featuring Richard Nixon, I wonder how the man himself would have felt about that legacy...
Strange that Twilight Struggle was not mentioned, as this game seems like a spiritual successor both in its historical topic and the value/event card mechanism.
All in all, I will buy this for sure.
@@morecoffee998 probably
The main difference IMO is that TS cards help both sides while Watergate has 20 specific cards for each player that never get used by or benefit the opponent.
@@morecoffee998 Nah, I'm with you. TS made me feel very strongly about wargames that have dice as combat resolution. Another reason to like games like Sekigahara. Also, some TS cards would benefit from a redesign, like Bear Trap/Quagmire. What it has is historical context, and that, if you like to read about 20th century world politics and history is a very heavy subject to digest.
@@phillipmillman3290 Obviously.
@@peterfiser you'd be surprised how many times I have to explain that to people.
Hi, the game has a good longevity (can I replay it several times)? Thanks
Be sure to check out the game Lawyer Up as well. :)
Best B-roll.
Fantastic. Off to delete my review. 👏👏
One by one I'll get you all to erase your videos until board game internet is just me and The Dragon's Tomb, because let's face it, we need good accurate tutorials.
The real question is, how do both of you think Watergate compares to other similar games like 13 Days? Does 13 Days have more depth since you must play your opponents events and draw feom the same deck or is it a superficial impression?
This looks like a good one for us, thanks for the review!
I wonder, have Efka played Twilight Struggle?
Have to agree with some of the other comments here. The more I watched the more I thought Twilight Struggle. Cards that can be played as events or actions, cards that are played as events removed from the game, events based on real historical events (that can only occur once) - these are all core TS principles. I went from a must buy upon hearing "Best two player game" to lukewarm once I saw how it played. Really not that innovative after all.
The cardplay is what makes it stand out. It's like Twilight Struggle meets Inis. It's truly a unique combination and feels super fresh. Every turn is filled with uncertainty and bluff and there are so many amazing things happenning during this game. You have to try it before forming your final opinion. Believe me, this one will surprise you.
Complexity please? 1-10?
I had my first game yesterday and want to underline all what you said. But your last final statement was a goof i think. Inreally searched the rules for it (2 languages) but didnt find. I hope im not mistaken....
There is no rule that Nixon wins when he gets the remaining 4 momentum tokens. The rule is: when there are no more tokens left to place... So it could be that the Post gets all 9(!) Tokens (only 5 count) and Nixon wins.
Run Runner! The Sandman will chase you for there is no Sanctuary.
How you going to say this is the best 2 player game designed for 2 players and never once mention the current undisputed 2 player champion: Twilight Struggle! Even feels similar in that your movement/event cards are the same and you have to decide to use them as movement or events. This one looks pretty interesting though...and appears it might be easier to teach. Thanks for the review!
I think he said "one of the best" which means it's on or close to the level. I agree, it looks like it could scratch a similar itch as Twilight Struggle, but the
The thing I like about Nixon winning when there are no more momentum tokens left to play is it gives the editor pause in playing momentum for themselves when playing momentum would be normally be so enticing. It’s like in Secret Hitler when a liberal player would normally never want to play a fascist policy, but the playing a fascist policy might give them powerful effects that could win them the game immediately but also brings the fascists closer to winning.
While I don't doubt how great this game is (and it sounds really cool) I find it strange that the really cool and unique theme of Watergate doesn't really do much for me. Also the artwork being photographs and the board being so bare just makes me not want to even look at this game. A possible re-theme would get me more interested in the game, but then again by re-theming it does it take away the uniqueness of the game? It's such a strange conundrum. Either way a great review as always Efka! Looking forward to the Black Angel review that you mentioned possibly doing in your podcast!
But how can I make this game part of my daily caloric intake?
Watergate vs 7 Wonders Duel?
Bad board games go to Jason Levine's basement when they die ;)
Is Watergate as an actual historical event that well known outside the US?
Probably not exactly what Watergate was about, but I"d expect most well-educated people to know who Nixon was and that Watergate was a scaandal he was involved in that led to his end.
Micah McElroy Yes. It’s definitely globally well documented. The now everyday use of the -gate suffix on any scandal is also derived from Watergate. All the Presidents Men is a very famous Oscar winning movie based on the scandal starring Dustin Hoffman and Robert Redford.
@@silentassassin2000 No, never heard about it until that Nixon pose on Minion Movie. Then after that I search about the president's scandal.
Las Vegas.
(At least, that's my idea of hell.)
Take a look at the GMT game Fort Sumter. It is also fantastic as the same type of game.
I think bad board games go to The Warp
:)
When a board game dies it goes to the thrift store. Broken, beaten, alone....and frightened.
And then I find it and save it. This is how I rescued a 5$ Dominion from the local thrift.
I believe that Twilight Struggle is a much better game, also if you want even better games try the COIN series games by GMT. Watergate just a simpler implementation of the mechanics in Twilight Struggle and the COIN series. I would go as far to say that Watergate is closer to the Campaign Manager games put out by Zman then to Twilight Struggle and the COIN series games, before you say best you should review the rest.
That's all well and good, but I can't invite just anyone even for Twilight Struggle, let alone COIN.... this seems like a decent alternative that requires little experience and is playable within an hour or so, both very desirable traits.
Oh man, Chess isn't a take that game....