PLEASE READ THIS POST BEFORE COMMENTING: Several people commenting here (clearly not reading what others have already said) seem to think that my issues with 'Monday...' by the Strugatksys relate to (1) translation issues and (2) the strange idea that I would somehow be unaware of the situation in the Soviet Union while they were writing. Not the case if you actually listen to what I say in the video, I make it clear that what I I dislike about 'Monday' is the fact that it is an example of the tendency in some Russian fiction to draw on folk tales in a knockabout manner. As I also make clear in my previous Strugatsky video, I've read quite a few of their other books and am more familiar with their film versions than anyone I've met. How could I have been reading SF since the end of the 1960s and lived through the Cold War, met the Strugatskys and NOT be aware of translation, satire and political issues? Come on, guys!
Well put, Stephen. It's difficult to remember sometimes, that any "audience" will always contain a majority of people with dubious situational awareness. Cheers.
The bird picture at the start of the Puffin Treasury of Classics (@33:21) is the cover of the Talk Talk album "Spirit of Eden" (1988). The collection itself looks like it might be a reworking of a multi-volume set of a Children's Treasury that came out ~1970. It had lots of excerpts of novels such as the beginning of The Hobbit, and an excerpt of J.B.S. Haldane's wonderful book "My Friend Mr Leakey". Aside from SF, I collect a lot of mid-20th century children's books that preceded the YA label. Aside from the above, there's Beverley Nicholl's "The Tree That Sat Down" , books by Edward Eager, J.P. Martin's Uncle books and so much more that is difficult or costly to acquire. These books have incredible charm and wit. I suppose that's where I get it from...
I can understand anyone collecting kids' books before a certain period- charm is the word! Of course pretty much all the material in the book was out of copyright by the late 90s and treasuries often mine the same books for content, which is fine because some writing really is spectacularly timeless. good to hear from you, Mike!
Haha.. I recently bought Snail On A Slope & Monday Starts on Saturday.. I wanted those under my belt before Roadside Picnic & Hard To Be A God - the classics.
Don't read them first unless you are well-versed in Russian surrealism and decadence. 'Roadside' and 'Hard' are more straight ahead, but more successful artistically- no matter whet the translations (I've read 2 translations of 'Roadside' and both are fine.
Thanks for the shoutout Steve! The Telzey stuff, especially the earliest stories weren't my favourite from his Federation/Hub stuff but in general I really loved the universe and its themes. I also enjoyed A Door into Ocean years ago and have been meaning to read more by Slonczewski ever since. Perhaps sometime soon!
Nice one, Steve! The Strugatsky brothers didn't really click with me until I realised it was necessary to understand the subtext as well as the text of their novels. They were writing at a time of successive, repressive regimes when even the wallpaper might be a state agent. I think an understanding of the post WW2 Soviet Union is far more important to appreciating their work than, say, an understanding of post WW2 England is to appreciating the work of John Brunner. There are certainly coded criticisms of the Soviet state in the Strugatsky's novels.
Several people have said similar things here- and I'm aware of the situations they were in, but as I said in the video, with this particular title it's more about the tradition of using elements from Russian folk tales (and the way it's done) that I didn't get on with. Sometimes, I think their experimentalism doesn't come of- and I found this in 'Snail on the Slope' too. I've read a good other half dozen of their novels without issues. I'm clearly going to have to pin a post about this in the comments, otherwise I'll keep repeating myself...
The Universe Against Her was my introduction to James H Schmitz, way back in 1981, and I have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed it. (each to their own, right? 😏) It certainly fuelled my interest in his work. Thanks to Baen Books in the early 2000's, I now have his complete works. And, there is a hardcover edition of The Universe Against Her, published by Gregg Press. (1981)
I read Robinson Crusoe about a year ago, as the first influential desert island story it is pretty interesting, you can see what gets used in The Martian and a lot of other books. I just started reading Memoirs of Madame de La Tour Du Pin written in the 1820s, she lived through the French revolution. She read Robinson Crusoe as a child - I got a vertiginous sense of time reading that.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Defoe wrote two sequels to Robinson Crusoe, he was cashing in, but not many read them. I might get around to it. The Farther Adventures goes back to the island and Friday is killed. The Serious Reflections during the Life and Surprising Adventures of Robinson Crusoe, with his Vision of the Angelick World is for Defoe enthusiasts only.
@@JulianBills yes, I'm aware of them but as you say, they are pretty obscure, I've only been asked for them once in 40 years of bookselling that I can remember.
I found the start interesting, but it was increasingly maddening. I had abandoned it and only went back to it because I'd enjoyed Roadside Picnic and Hard to be a God so much, I felt I was in their debt. They now owe me. I'm from a different time and culture, so understand why I might have disconnected from it.
I remember selling quite a few copies of the Schmitz book (very cheaply) when I was working in a warehouse which dealt in kid's activity books, & book-remainders in bulk, way back in the 80s. Anyway, I don't mind clunky writing if the story delivers, but sometimes it gets a bit much - for example, John W. Campbell's Who Goes There was as clunky as it gets - I was able to finish it, but the lack of flow & rhythm in the writing wore me out to the point where I just didn't enjoy it - so I can understand what you're talking about. I've read several of Schmitz's short stories, which I liked, but he isn't a writer whose work I would go out of my way to look out for...
I have to say I think "Who Goes There?" is a model of economy and sharp storytelling - yes, it has the mark of its time, but it doesn't trip over itself, I felt. Arthur C Clarke was a worse stylist than Campbell, I feel. Schmitz seems really minor to me, but we'll see- good to hear from you as ever!
always appreciate your reviews. not sure i'm interested in much there. you've almost made me want to pick up a copy of skein island. almost. ;) i recently picked up a copy of hard to be a god so i will give that a try. cheers, mate!
'Hard to be a God' is underrated, I feel. There's a tendency to lionise the Strugatsky's more 'difficult' work and it is reasonably straight ahead, but it's a successful novel artistically. 'Skein Island' is good, I just felt it lacked flavour- but the ideas are really lingering in my mind. In the hands of a better stylist, it would be a contemporary Classic. Try it.
Glad to see I wasn't the only one who found this book (Monday etc.) somewhat unreadable - hard DNF for me and good riddance. I have really enjoyed some of their other books though. Massively enjoying Leonora Carrington's 'The Hearing Trumpet' at the mo - proper surrealistic fantasy.
Three different Guin pronunciations there! 😀 I read RP a while back and didn't really get it. My wife enjoyed it much more. I have the WP edition of Door into Ocean, 2 quid in a charity shop, but not in Steve condition. Take care!
I know, it's driving me mad, I'm going to go back to pronouncing it my way just for the hell of it. Attend to the text, that's what matters, I think. I have to say I think 'Roadside Picnic' -which I like - is not as great as people say it is, but it is kind of a sacred cow protected by the Tarvkovsky film version, which people are absurdly reverent about- and I like it, but it is too long and rather vague at times, like the interminable library scene in his version of 'Solaris' (which again, I otherwise like). 'Door into Ocean' I was a bit harsh about, it is good, hope you enjoy it! Thanks mate.
Telzey! It has been ages since I read The Universe Against her - sad that you did not rate it, but, now I must re-read it and find out. I think it is great to see other people reading children's books and fairy tales. They are too often overlooked and I %100 agree that one needs to diversity from sci-fi/fantasy, which I why I consider myself an omnivorous reader.
Schitz story has strong female characters , a stand out at that time ( in my readings ) Not only strong , but " fun to be around " I was a younger Young when i started JS . And i cannot leave JS without mentioning The Witches Of Karres , a space opera of a guy and said witches . And yes its SF . The Strugatskis seems to be a bit like Lewis Carroll doing serious SF .Spot on , on Borges .Le Guins The Word for World is Forest is shorter and deals with planetry exloitation . Nice haul , the book of classics .Hans Andersen stories are classics . And please dont be fooled by the Disney " feel good, happy ending " movies . Ok off my soap box . Thank you for the video . Ps been doing some posting of comments , and at times they vanish .
Hey Sylvan, good to hear from you. That disappearing comment thing happens to me too, wish I knew why! It's probably youtube's algorithm doing it for some weird reason. I've read Andersen by the way. Take care my friend!
Of the Schmitz I've read I would say 'The Witches of Karres' is his strongest work. It is a singleton apart from the Hub Universe of the other stories. I do find his work a lot of fun. Great to balance out my reads of Disch and some of the Ace Specials.
I think the issue with a lot of the Strugatsky brothers' work is that it is very culture-bound, more than badly translated. Andrew Bromfeild does lots of modern translation of Russian work, especially contemporary writing - for example the Boris Akunin Fandorin detective series - and I bet will almost certainly have produced a better English rendering than the other edition's translator. So, translation is a minor issue, I think. The difficulty is in appreciating the satirical swipes directed at the Soviet system. Russians usually laugh heartily at this particular novel, whereas outsiders are more bemused than amused. The ludicrous red tape, the inter and intra-departmental rivalries don't always make too much sense outside the USSR setting. And this soviet theme runs through their work, though perhaps unconsciously. Even in 'Roadside Picnic', there are strange references to almost GosPlan type departments in western organisations like NASA etc, which make it obvious the writers never really travelled or lived abroad enough to know their social structures weren't universal. That's what makes this book less enjoyable than 'Hard to Be a God', for example. Satire can age very badly, and foreign satire was already impenetrable from the start. 'The Yawning Heights' by Alexander Zinoviev I found to be almost unreadable, though the blurb calls it "the most devastating satire ever written about Soviet Russia". Better off reading the Metro 2033 series by Dmitry Glukhovsky - the mediocre writing, total lack of characterization, the attempted satire - all fade into irrelevance because at least there's a load of monsters : )
As I said in the video, I think the real problem for me is the material above all else- the tendency to include folk material: I read 'Roadside Picnic', 'Hard To Be A God', 'Final Circle of Paradise', 'Prisoners of Power', 'Lame Fate/Ugly Swans' without problems. I get the satire, though I can see your point. I've read lots of Russian fiction and only struggle with the material when this folksy element comes in.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal OK, fair enough. But the thing is there is not really all that much in the way of folkloric symbolism in Saturday. Yes, there's the house on chicken legs, for example, to emphasize the magical nature of NICHEVO institute. A well-known image to every Russian child. But there's little beyond that, notwithstanding Emelya the Simpleton's talking pike, or the odd rusalka in a tree etc... What there is in abundance, however, is gentle sending up (and not so gentle) of various Soviet political and academic figures. Vybegallo ("the one who runs") speaks in the same manner as, say, Khruschev did, to public amusement, and is said to be a composite character based on Lysenko and the Soviet SF writer Alexander Kazantsev - both very much on the cranky side of science. Various branches of sciences are lampooned - such as astronomy in the Dept of Predictions and Prophecies - as these were going through all sorts of very real crises at the time. Even the very choice of making the main character a computer programmer is a swipe at the Stalinist-era rejection of cybernetics as pseudo-science (despite elevating real pseudo-scientists like Lysenko). Computer science as magical fantasy mixed with enforced visits to collective farms etc and interfering bureaucrats - this is far from folk tale re-tellings. It is a commentary hard to convey, though, to the outside world, as it refers to many Soviet realities in a way that their later books did not. This, to me, is why the book doesn't really connect well - we can appreciate the more abstract and general ideas in Roadside Picnic, but struggle with this, lacking knowledge of the minutae of a culture that it ridicules.
@@spencerburke Obviously. But you'll notice I compared the book to a trend in Russian SF and Modenism that comes up time and again from Bulgakov to Sorokin that is similar to what the Strugatksys do in this book with folk, symbolism and knockabout moments punctuated by brash, bluff, hale-n-hearty dialogue.
Tarkovsky is my favorite filmmaker; but I've never read Roadside Picnic or anything else by the Brothers Strugatski. I've been meaning to, though. I find it irritating when people obsess over things like "magic systems," b/c they're treating them as something mechanistic, Newtonian--which probably has a lot to do with video games.
I've met a lot of people who love AT but never read the book- or 'Solaris'. You are missing out in both cases, I'd say. I've spoken in another video about how Geoff Dyer manages to write a whole book about 'Stalker' without reading the Strugaskys, which did irk me....as a writer, he should do more research!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal You are too kind. I'm sure there's a lot to learn from their mostly-show-don't-tell style. One of the hardest obstacles (about writing in the genre) is, as you point out, how to convey a new reality without resorting to dumping. I'm a little obsessive about the technique. Just the fact that you point it out, more than anything, pushes me to read it now. I've already read several books I should have read long ago, thanks to you. Thanks, Outlaw, as always, for the education.I always learn something from you.
@@unstopitable Well, they happily tell in some books, for me in genre fiction, it's all about balancing storytelling techniques that best get the ideas across- but not always!
I hate to be the pronunciation police again! But--as I happen to speak Chinese--maybe I can help with the pronunciation of Cixin Liu. " Ci" is pronounced similar to a "Ts" sound, almost like the sound of a hi-hat. ""Xin" sounds a lot like the English "shin", and "Liu" sounds a lot like the constellation "Leo". So Cixin Liu sounds more or less like "Ts-shin Leo". (Though not perfect, it's at least more accurate that a lot of Angophone attempts at his name.) Regardless, great video as always!
I think your problem with Strugatsky brothers is more with translations of their work, then works alone. I read Snail on a Slope in old Yugoslavian edition (Serbo-Croat translation), and it reads much better than in English. Not just their works, but Russian literature as a whole reads much better in Croatian or Serbian. I agree with Croatian writer Miljenko Jergović and his claim that Russian novels are best read in Serbian, as is closer to Russian spirit. Still, I always loved Constance Garnett's translations.
I had no issues with 'Roadside Picnic', 'Hard to Be A God', 'Final Circle of Paradise', 'Prisoners of Power', 'Definitely Maybe' or 'Lame Fate/Ugly Swans'- while I grant you it may be translation, as I said in the video, I'm inclined to think it's the knockabout folk material- which (again, as I said) I've encountered in other Russian writers such as Bulkgakov - that wrongfooted me in 'Monday Begins...'.
Well, I'd say it's related, probably due to the resemblance of said substance to thread spun on a loom- the spinning of Clotho of the Fates weaving the wyrds of men...
Well, if it's Fantasy it's not SF- Fantasy is supernatural not natural, magic not science. There are the Flat Earth series by Tanith Lee, of course and Philip Jose Farmer's story "Sail On! Sail On!'...and probably others....
Skein Island sounds imaginative enough - got to try it. Lacks engaging descriptive writing? Another reason to try it - to see if l dislike descriptive writing as much as l think l do. Once again you got my juices flowing
PLEASE READ THIS POST BEFORE COMMENTING: Several people commenting here (clearly not reading what others have already said) seem to think that my issues with 'Monday...' by the Strugatksys relate to (1) translation issues and (2) the strange idea that I would somehow be unaware of the situation in the Soviet Union while they were writing. Not the case if you actually listen to what I say in the video, I make it clear that what I I dislike about 'Monday' is the fact that it is an example of the tendency in some Russian fiction to draw on folk tales in a knockabout manner. As I also make clear in my previous Strugatsky video, I've read quite a few of their other books and am more familiar with their film versions than anyone I've met. How could I have been reading SF since the end of the 1960s and lived through the Cold War, met the Strugatskys and NOT be aware of translation, satire and political issues? Come on, guys!
Well put, Stephen. It's difficult to remember sometimes, that any "audience" will always contain a majority of people with dubious situational awareness. Cheers.
The bird picture at the start of the Puffin Treasury of Classics (@33:21) is the cover of the Talk Talk album "Spirit of Eden" (1988). The collection itself looks like it might be a reworking of a multi-volume set of a Children's Treasury that came out ~1970. It had lots of excerpts of novels such as the beginning of The Hobbit, and an excerpt of J.B.S. Haldane's wonderful book "My Friend Mr Leakey".
Aside from SF, I collect a lot of mid-20th century children's books that preceded the YA label. Aside from the above, there's Beverley Nicholl's "The Tree That Sat Down" , books by Edward Eager, J.P. Martin's Uncle books and so much more that is difficult or costly to acquire. These books have incredible charm and wit. I suppose that's where I get it from...
I can understand anyone collecting kids' books before a certain period- charm is the word! Of course pretty much all the material in the book was out of copyright by the late 90s and treasuries often mine the same books for content, which is fine because some writing really is spectacularly timeless. good to hear from you, Mike!
Haha.. I recently bought Snail On A Slope & Monday Starts on Saturday.. I wanted those under my belt before Roadside Picnic & Hard To Be A God - the classics.
Don't read them first unless you are well-versed in Russian surrealism and decadence. 'Roadside' and 'Hard' are more straight ahead, but more successful artistically- no matter whet the translations (I've read 2 translations of 'Roadside' and both are fine.
Thanks for the shoutout Steve! The Telzey stuff, especially the earliest stories weren't my favourite from his Federation/Hub stuff but in general I really loved the universe and its themes. I also enjoyed A Door into Ocean years ago and have been meaning to read more by Slonczewski ever since. Perhaps sometime soon!
Nice one, Steve!
The Strugatsky brothers didn't really click with me until I realised it was necessary to understand the subtext as well as the text of their novels. They were writing at a time of successive, repressive regimes when even the wallpaper might be a state agent. I think an understanding of the post WW2 Soviet Union is far more important to appreciating their work than, say, an understanding of post WW2 England is to appreciating the work of John Brunner. There are certainly coded criticisms of the Soviet state in the Strugatsky's novels.
Several people have said similar things here- and I'm aware of the situations they were in, but as I said in the video, with this particular title it's more about the tradition of using elements from Russian folk tales (and the way it's done) that I didn't get on with. Sometimes, I think their experimentalism doesn't come of- and I found this in 'Snail on the Slope' too. I've read a good other half dozen of their novels without issues. I'm clearly going to have to pin a post about this in the comments, otherwise I'll keep repeating myself...
The Universe Against Her was my introduction to James H Schmitz, way back in 1981, and I have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed it. (each to their own, right? 😏) It certainly fuelled my interest in his work. Thanks to Baen Books in the early 2000's, I now have his complete works.
And, there is a hardcover edition of The Universe Against Her, published by Gregg Press. (1981)
Makes sense, Greg Press filled in LOTS of gaps by issuing hardcovers of paperback originals, great publishing house.
I read Robinson Crusoe about a year ago, as the first influential desert island story it is pretty interesting, you can see what gets used in The Martian and a lot of other books. I just started reading Memoirs of Madame de La Tour Du Pin written in the 1820s, she lived through the French revolution. She read Robinson Crusoe as a child - I got a vertiginous sense of time reading that.
'Crusoe' is pretty much an ur-text for so much fiction, great stuff.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Defoe wrote two sequels to Robinson Crusoe, he was cashing in, but not many read them. I might get around to it. The Farther Adventures goes back to the island and Friday is killed. The Serious Reflections during the Life and Surprising Adventures of Robinson Crusoe, with his Vision of the Angelick World is for Defoe enthusiasts only.
@@JulianBills yes, I'm aware of them but as you say, they are pretty obscure, I've only been asked for them once in 40 years of bookselling that I can remember.
I found the start interesting, but it was increasingly maddening. I had abandoned it and only went back to it because I'd enjoyed Roadside Picnic and Hard to be a God so much, I felt I was in their debt. They now owe me. I'm from a different time and culture, so understand why I might have disconnected from it.
I felt it was an example of an experiment that failed, but I'm keen to read the DAW translation.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Well, you're a braver man than me. I never want to enter that institute again but I'd be interested to know how it goes.
I remember selling quite a few copies of the Schmitz book (very cheaply) when I was working in a warehouse which dealt in kid's activity books, & book-remainders in bulk, way back in the 80s. Anyway, I don't mind clunky writing if the story delivers, but sometimes it gets a bit much - for example, John W. Campbell's Who Goes There was as clunky as it gets - I was able to finish it, but the lack of flow & rhythm in the writing wore me out to the point where I just didn't enjoy it - so I can understand what you're talking about. I've read several of Schmitz's short stories, which I liked, but he isn't a writer whose work I would go out of my way to look out for...
I have to say I think "Who Goes There?" is a model of economy and sharp storytelling - yes, it has the mark of its time, but it doesn't trip over itself, I felt. Arthur C Clarke was a worse stylist than Campbell, I feel. Schmitz seems really minor to me, but we'll see- good to hear from you as ever!
@outlawbookselleroriginal OK. Maybe I need to give the Campbell story another chance & reread it. Your opinions are appreciated as always.
always appreciate your reviews. not sure i'm interested in much there. you've almost made me want to pick up a copy of skein island. almost. ;)
i recently picked up a copy of hard to be a god so i will give that a try. cheers, mate!
'Hard to be a God' is underrated, I feel. There's a tendency to lionise the Strugatsky's more 'difficult' work and it is reasonably straight ahead, but it's a successful novel artistically. 'Skein Island' is good, I just felt it lacked flavour- but the ideas are really lingering in my mind. In the hands of a better stylist, it would be a contemporary Classic. Try it.
Glad to see I wasn't the only one who found this book (Monday etc.) somewhat unreadable - hard DNF for me and good riddance. I have really enjoyed some of their other books though. Massively enjoying Leonora Carrington's 'The Hearing Trumpet' at the mo - proper surrealistic fantasy.
That Puffin looks amazing by the way - must buy one for my 18-month old daughter!
Yeah, there's a little too much reverence around their less straight ahead work, I think.
It belongs in the library of every serious reader, I'd say.
Three different Guin pronunciations there! 😀 I read RP a while back and didn't really get it. My wife enjoyed it much more. I have the WP edition of Door into Ocean, 2 quid in a charity shop, but not in Steve condition. Take care!
I know, it's driving me mad, I'm going to go back to pronouncing it my way just for the hell of it. Attend to the text, that's what matters, I think. I have to say I think 'Roadside Picnic' -which I like - is not as great as people say it is, but it is kind of a sacred cow protected by the Tarvkovsky film version, which people are absurdly reverent about- and I like it, but it is too long and rather vague at times, like the interminable library scene in his version of 'Solaris' (which again, I otherwise like). 'Door into Ocean' I was a bit harsh about, it is good, hope you enjoy it! Thanks mate.
Telzey! It has been ages since I read The Universe Against her - sad that you did not rate it, but, now I must re-read it and find out.
I think it is great to see other people reading children's books and fairy tales. They are too often overlooked and I %100 agree that one needs to diversity from sci-fi/fantasy, which I why I consider myself an omnivorous reader.
The only way you can really judge SF- or anything in literature- is if you read other stuff too, I think.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Very good point!
Schitz story has strong female characters , a stand out at that time ( in my readings ) Not only strong , but " fun to be around " I was a younger Young when i started JS . And i cannot leave JS without mentioning The Witches Of Karres , a space opera of a guy and said witches . And yes its SF . The Strugatskis seems to be a bit like Lewis Carroll doing serious SF .Spot on , on Borges .Le Guins The Word for World is Forest is shorter and deals with planetry exloitation . Nice haul , the book of classics .Hans Andersen stories are classics . And please dont be fooled by the Disney " feel good, happy ending " movies . Ok off my soap box . Thank you for the video . Ps been doing some posting of comments , and at times they vanish .
Hey Sylvan, good to hear from you. That disappearing comment thing happens to me too, wish I knew why! It's probably youtube's algorithm doing it for some weird reason. I've read Andersen by the way. Take care my friend!
Of the Schmitz I've read I would say 'The Witches of Karres' is his strongest work. It is a singleton apart from the Hub Universe of the other stories. I do find his work a lot of fun. Great to balance out my reads of Disch and some of the Ace Specials.
more food for thought there, have to admit I was unimpressed by Snail on the Slope too perhaps that was a case of bad translation too.
Possibly, but I think it was just an experiment that failed, personally.
I think the issue with a lot of the Strugatsky brothers' work is that it is very culture-bound, more than badly translated. Andrew Bromfeild does lots of modern translation of Russian work, especially contemporary writing - for example the Boris Akunin Fandorin detective series - and I bet will almost certainly have produced a better English rendering than the other edition's translator. So, translation is a minor issue, I think.
The difficulty is in appreciating the satirical swipes directed at the Soviet system. Russians usually laugh heartily at this particular novel, whereas outsiders are more bemused than amused. The ludicrous red tape, the inter and intra-departmental rivalries don't always make too much sense outside the USSR setting.
And this soviet theme runs through their work, though perhaps unconsciously. Even in 'Roadside Picnic', there are strange references to almost GosPlan type departments in western organisations like NASA etc, which make it obvious the writers never really travelled or lived abroad enough to know their social structures weren't universal.
That's what makes this book less enjoyable than 'Hard to Be a God', for example. Satire can age very badly, and foreign satire was already impenetrable from the start. 'The Yawning Heights' by Alexander Zinoviev I found to be almost unreadable, though the blurb calls it "the most devastating satire ever written about Soviet Russia".
Better off reading the Metro 2033 series by Dmitry Glukhovsky - the mediocre writing, total lack of characterization, the attempted satire - all fade into irrelevance because at least there's a load of monsters : )
As I said in the video, I think the real problem for me is the material above all else- the tendency to include folk material: I read 'Roadside Picnic', 'Hard To Be A God', 'Final Circle of Paradise', 'Prisoners of Power', 'Lame Fate/Ugly Swans' without problems. I get the satire, though I can see your point. I've read lots of Russian fiction and only struggle with the material when this folksy element comes in.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal OK, fair enough. But the thing is there is not really all that much in the way of folkloric symbolism in Saturday. Yes, there's the house on chicken legs, for example, to emphasize the magical nature of NICHEVO institute. A well-known image to every Russian child. But there's little beyond that, notwithstanding Emelya the Simpleton's talking pike, or the odd rusalka in a tree etc...
What there is in abundance, however, is gentle sending up (and not so gentle) of various Soviet political and academic figures. Vybegallo ("the one who runs") speaks in the same manner as, say, Khruschev did, to public amusement, and is said to be a composite character based on Lysenko and the Soviet SF writer Alexander Kazantsev - both very much on the cranky side of science.
Various branches of sciences are lampooned - such as astronomy in the Dept of Predictions and Prophecies - as these were going through all sorts of very real crises at the time. Even the very choice of making the main character a computer programmer is a swipe at the Stalinist-era rejection of cybernetics as pseudo-science (despite elevating real pseudo-scientists like Lysenko).
Computer science as magical fantasy mixed with enforced visits to collective farms etc and interfering bureaucrats - this is far from folk tale re-tellings. It is a commentary hard to convey, though, to the outside world, as it refers to many Soviet realities in a way that their later books did not. This, to me, is why the book doesn't really connect well - we can appreciate the more abstract and general ideas in Roadside Picnic, but struggle with this, lacking knowledge of the minutae of a culture that it ridicules.
@@spencerburke Obviously. But you'll notice I compared the book to a trend in Russian SF and Modenism that comes up time and again from Bulgakov to Sorokin that is similar to what the Strugatksys do in this book with folk, symbolism and knockabout moments punctuated by brash, bluff, hale-n-hearty dialogue.
Tarkovsky is my favorite filmmaker; but I've never read Roadside Picnic or anything else by the Brothers Strugatski. I've been meaning to, though. I find it irritating when people obsess over things like "magic systems," b/c they're treating them as something mechanistic, Newtonian--which probably has a lot to do with video games.
I've met a lot of people who love AT but never read the book- or 'Solaris'. You are missing out in both cases, I'd say. I've spoken in another video about how Geoff Dyer manages to write a whole book about 'Stalker' without reading the Strugaskys, which did irk me....as a writer, he should do more research!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I'm a huge Lem fan. Love his work. Roadside is definitely on my TBR list. Thanks, Outlaw, for you kind reply.
@@unstopitable I'll be interested to see what you think (as always).
@@outlawbookselleroriginal You are too kind. I'm sure there's a lot to learn from their mostly-show-don't-tell style. One of the hardest obstacles (about writing in the genre) is, as you point out, how to convey a new reality without resorting to dumping. I'm a little obsessive about the technique. Just the fact that you point it out, more than anything, pushes me to read it now. I've already read several books I should have read long ago, thanks to you. Thanks, Outlaw, as always, for the education.I always learn something from you.
@@unstopitable Well, they happily tell in some books, for me in genre fiction, it's all about balancing storytelling techniques that best get the ideas across- but not always!
OMG ... where did you get that Hawkwind - 'Warrior on the Edge of Time' cup?
Ebay I think. Years ago.
I hate to be the pronunciation police again! But--as I happen to speak Chinese--maybe I can help with the pronunciation of Cixin Liu. " Ci" is pronounced similar to a "Ts" sound, almost like the sound of a hi-hat. ""Xin" sounds a lot like the English "shin", and "Liu" sounds a lot like the constellation "Leo". So Cixin Liu sounds more or less like "Ts-shin Leo". (Though not perfect, it's at least more accurate that a lot of Angophone attempts at his name.) Regardless, great video as always!
I do what I can.
Good stuff Dad!
Copy that.
I think your problem with Strugatsky brothers is more with translations of their work, then works alone. I read Snail on a Slope in old Yugoslavian edition (Serbo-Croat translation), and it reads much better than in English. Not just their works, but Russian literature as a whole reads much better in Croatian or Serbian.
I agree with Croatian writer Miljenko Jergović and his claim that Russian novels are best read in Serbian, as is closer to Russian spirit. Still, I always loved Constance Garnett's translations.
I had no issues with 'Roadside Picnic', 'Hard to Be A God', 'Final Circle of Paradise', 'Prisoners of Power', 'Definitely Maybe' or 'Lame Fate/Ugly Swans'- while I grant you it may be translation, as I said in the video, I'm inclined to think it's the knockabout folk material- which (again, as I said) I've encountered in other Russian writers such as Bulkgakov - that wrongfooted me in 'Monday Begins...'.
Same here ( Croatian ) ...Snail on the Slope is one of my favorite Strugatsky books ( Puž Golać Na Urvini 😂 )
Is skein an old term for the skin on boiled milk?
Well, I'd say it's related, probably due to the resemblance of said substance to thread spun on a loom- the spinning of Clotho of the Fates weaving the wyrds of men...
Thanks for flying the flag for louche decadence!
I do what I can!
Are there any flat Earth SF novels? You'd think so, for the idea is pure fantasy.. (a niche market, definitely)
Well, if it's Fantasy it's not SF- Fantasy is supernatural not natural, magic not science. There are the Flat Earth series by Tanith Lee, of course and Philip Jose Farmer's story "Sail On! Sail On!'...and probably others....
Skein Island sounds imaginative enough - got to try it. Lacks engaging descriptive writing? Another reason to try it - to see if l dislike descriptive writing as much as l think l do. Once again you got my juices flowing
It has great ideas and good focus characters, though the supporting ones are a tad sketchy- try it.