i think it'd be really nice to create a thread of booktok creators who share thought-provoking, diverse books!!! pls reply to comment with your favourite booktok creators ✨
@@diya-hn2wyyou should grow up and stop ruining everyone else's joy if you're such a mentally disturbed hater lol. i can't believe people like you think that it's a thing to flex about.
As an English teacher, I’m just glad that people are reading. I mean, so many of my students complain about their attention span because of the overwhelming information they get all the time. It’s nice that there’s a space on TikTok - which is usually the culprit - that encourages any kind of reading. I might not like most of the books I see recommended on TikTok, but once you start reading, it’s easy to guide you to better stuff
I agree. Everyone in one of my classes read a really, really bad tiktok-trending book and it was time well spent. They laughed at the bad language, the obvious plot holes, but they read. And at the end we learnt a lot more from discussing that book (and rewriting parts of it) than we did from their boring textbooks or from the ”good books”.
Maybe a way to engage with your students and share good lit is for you to create your own booktok page? As a former English teacher, I'd follow it to find good reads.
I was talking to a customer who is a teach and every year she a student or two that kind of become her mission to get to like reading. Comics/graphic novels and books about things they like are good ones
Nah, it's definitely booktok that is trash. Can't find a decent/original recommendation to save my life in there. But I'll find one in minutes in other platforms
There was another content creator on youtube who tried to get TikTok to show him more classic and literary fiction, and it was a struggle for him. There are very few tiktok creators that have this niche, and I think that can be an argument to be made against TikTok books, but its more of a problem of the platform itself.
@radumotrescu3832 I was going to mention this. I was able to get some more diverse book recommendations on my page after a lot of work, but I still got pushed ACOTAR and Fourth Wing onto my page no matter how many times I told them I wasn't interested. Definitely it's part you, but some things are so prevalent and are all tagged booktok, which can be very challenging to get out! Thankfully I somehow managed to keep Colleen Hoover off my page somehow, so some of it works!
Me too! Omg it was the 1st book where i genuinely felt robbed of time. I was just like "Give me my time back, you 400 pages long for no reason-book."😂😅@@Sam-h3x9u
i have a very restricted book collection and this was one of my first books that i bought and it almost made me want to never rea again. the characters were so one dimensional and it had a non existent plot
Calling someone a “performative sports fan” is not something I ever thought I’d hear irl but this is very much a thing that female fans of Formula 1 hear.
This is one of my biggest problems with so many men who watch sport. Instead of letting women enjoy something like a sport like f1 and celebrating it, they immediately make assumptions that we are there for the faces or the "hot guys". It's fine to enjoy a sport because you like the athletes participating in said sport, but not all of us are there for that. I think that this is ESPECIALLY prevalent in f1 because it is SUCH a male dominated sport.
great stuff. i’m a staunch tik tok hater but people claiming that tik tok has “ruined” reading is giving the app way too much credit. just because smutty colleen hoover clones are the popular thing right now doesn’t mean they are the only books that exist ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ new great complex novels are being published all the time
right?? it's giving "i was born in the wrong generation and there's no music as good as queen or the beatles now" when there absolutely is and these people are just not putting in the effort to look for the kind of art that they want. they confine themselves to what's popular and refuse to go out of that comfort zone and are surprised when they don't finding anything subversive or interesting
And novels have been published for hundreds of years. Read some older books! You do not have to only read new releases, what's popular, or the classics. There are so many books out there, get out there and find something good!
okay but tiktok is the biggest platform with the biggest influence currently, and you literally can't ignore it's effect on people. It definitely alters the culture around reading for a lot of people, including the people around me and I can see it.
@@michaeldeguzman3852 Singers started to make tiktok music because that's what sells now due to tiktok (which is something Adele said herself), so yeah, it does have a great effect on authors' work as well. Jack never said "there aren't any good books anymore, I was born in the wrong generation", but he is saying it's impossible for us to ignore the influence tiktok has on books as well. I think you are just putting words into his mouth he never said and misunderstanding
Exactly what I thought about the first clip. If you don't like the books popular on tiktok then you don't have to read those books. But that person was acting as if no other books exist and that is just not true. For example, there is so much classic literature and poetry that one person could not read it in one lifetime. I think the first person cares more about becoming popular on tiktok by voicing her opinion than she does about reading the kinds of books she claims to want to read.
Jack, your point about the underlying misogyny in hating 'being a reader' really got me thinking. Thank you for using your platform to educate me (and others) in such a casual and entertaining way. Well done!
Yes to this!! There’s always a popular book trend that’s ‘ruined’ reading. I was a Harry Potter reader since 1997, and then loved twilight when it came out in 2006 (I don’t anymore but WHAT a time) and the hate I used to see when these things were the ‘thing’ of the time made me feel so bad and I used to hide it. Not a TikTok fan myself, but I’m not gonna hate on it.
Genuine question because Twilight and HP were good book series but on BookTok people get book recommendations - isn’t that kind of different? popular book series vs. a plattform recommending certain books (especially to a young generation)
@@ajls9 yes and no. If you asked anyone in 2006 for a book recommendation, the answer was always almost exclusively Twilight making people say it “ruined reading” because that was all people were talking about. I remember multiple end-caps at Walmart being dedicated solely to it and the fight over copies when New Moon came out was just ridiculous.
My biggest problem with "booktok books" is that they (at least in Poland) are the most popular among teenagers rather than young adults. Many of those books have inappropriate contents for that age-group (18+/16+) which often promote sexist views, violent/unsafe/unrealistic love making with makes those children fantasise about things like that or even encourages them to try it. Those books in Poland can be seen the most in the hands of 10-14 year-olds with is really concerning. Also there was recently a sort of 'drama' where one of the famous book publishing house launched a book 18+, written by a 15 year-old girl.
I am critical of booktok not because of the tiktok videos but because of what it does to the world of publishing. Bookstores are filled with shelves and shelves of Colleen Hoover and are focusing less and less on literary works. Authors now have to market themselves on social media to get a publishing deal and/or readers. We are not criticizing other people's for you pages but the real world impact of the majority of the booktok community.
and this affects the actual quality of writing. This isn't about the plot and themes itself but the pacing and writing is objectivly bad. They have such good plots but because of the publishing and book community focusing so much on tropes these writers don't focus on the plot but the tropes and scenes that they want to happen in it that they don't flesh out the characters once so ever. there is an author that doesnt even know the age of her male lead
@@xxAMAZINGxx62 it is happening to industry, and thats really sad. Movies, books, music, art in general is getting increasingly low-effort and hollow. Good art is still being produced, but popularisation of easily digestable, superficially exciting, forgettable media is taking over the market. It's really quantity over quality, like fast food. And I enjoy me a burger from time to time but I don't want McDonalds to be on my everyday menu
11:52 The only times I ever hear sports being “performative” is when women are involved (think only watching American Football because of Taylor Swift). Men are rarely perceived to be performative in their enjoyment of sports, even though they weren’t soccer fans until the World Cup…
I don’t have adequate words to express how much I love this comment. I really hate the perception that female sports fans do not exist without the influence of a pop star. The way he related sports to reading and the misogyny associated with them was so refreshing!
YES! I was just about to comment something like this! As a woman who is a fan of football I often am perceived by men as being performative in my enjoyment of the sport. It’s gotten to the point where I just don’t tell people I like football because they either roll their eyes or quiz me on it…
@@ErikaLM10 NOTHING! The point is none of it is performative. Enjoy what you enjoy for the reasons you enjoy them. Whatever it is that gets you into the hobby just go for it
YES! just because i don’t read every free hour of the day doesn’t mean i perform my love for reading. i’m just a tired girl, but whenever i do find the time, i find so much joy in it! calling it performative sets such weird expectations of how people should engage in their hobbies
Honestly I read so many good books cause of tiktok. Also a couple of bad ones. But one book jumped out at me and I was shocked, the book is called - The Hidden Truths Of Wealth, It will reveal to you how today's business gurus actually manipulate and make money.
I don't have tiktok and so by extension don't read booktok books but the level of passion and LOGICAL REASONING in this video? I thoroughly and profusely enjoyed this
For real, most of the things I see on the Internet are just either utter hate or love and just subjective opinions (which is fine too, ofc!) but it's so refreshing to see someone talk so objectively and politely
I think the whole “performative” thing you discussed is my main issue with booktok. But it reminds me of how long-time fans of anime or Dungeons and Dragons sometimes feel about the main-streamification of their hobbies. These are things they were bullied for in school, and now the cool kids want to participate too. That’s how I feel when I see these bookshelves full of brand new Sarah J. Maas books. I have been a reader since I was four, and while I am literally a librarian and want everyone to be a reader, seeing the kind of people who would have bullied me as a kid find refuge in reading (as I have always done) is kind of challenging.
Honestly, the people claiming that booktok wiped out "real literature" must not be looking far? I understand feeling frustrated with current reading trends, but I am always adding books to my TBR with multiple layers of depth. I don't have TikTok, so my book recommendations are not usually curated by an algorithm. The inability to find thought-provoking books is almost a reflection on the people voicing the complaint. They don't need to tear down BookTok readers because of it!
Fr. Like I feel like people forget to go out and look for books themselves or even talk to librarians/bookstore employees. Like most bookstores have staff recommendations shelves and I’ve yet to meet a librarian who wasn’t ready and willing to locate the best book that suits your needs/wants. And a lot of people think that just because something is contemporary that it’s trash literature. It’s not. I just spoke at a conference about female written femme fatales during the 1940s and I was asked about Gillian Flynn (? Sorry I read 1 book) being a contemporary example of nonconforming femme fatale characters (the works I discussed had characters who were presented as ff but showed a mixture of traits). And it’s like yeah, Flynn is helping form a new genre called midwestern gothic where a lot of her protagonists have redeemer (homemaker), femme fatale, and female detective traits. And do you want to know what famous author wasn’t considered worthy of academic attention until the 1920s? Freaking Charles Dickens! He was seen as low brow literature and now there’s massive amounts of “Dickensian” scholars running amok
THANK YOU!! I so agree with this! Also, even though there are bad booktok books too, some of those books are famous for a reason! And for example the country I live in, we dont have a great selection of english books in most of the bookstores. Pretty much the only diverse bookstore in my country is in the captial city, where for some (me included) it takes really long to drive to! And for example i enjoy reading more in english and want to improve my language skills. So i got to work with what i have, and what i have are booktok books, from which some are actually quite good!
@@e.a.6136 The stereotypical booktok book is a romance book. So it uses easier English. I love the Hunger Games, but while rereading in English I got so tired of not knowing a word on every page that I read Catching Fire in my native language. So booktok books are very good for people who are learning English
One thing that really turned around my thinking similar things to those mentioned in this video was someone at university pointing out - people are READING. How can we be angry that people are developing their reading and engaging with a slower hobby that is good for your brain and your language development and emotional wellbeing?? I used to think kids books about footballers were silly, but if they get more young boys to read (who often struggle to / are discouraged to) then they are useful and valuable.
I didn't have anybody to talk about books with before joining booktok. Now I've got some bookish friends and I can post book reviews and bookish memes when I want. So it's a win win to me, I feel like.
I'm not on TikTok but I found my tribes on Reddit. That's why I like social media. I didn't have anybody to talk to irl about romance novels (which I mainly read) and books in general. I've gotten good book recommendations from r/romancebooks and r/books.
People hated on james patterson so much but a lot of his stuff was my fav growing up, it really was half of what i was reading to develop my book obsession
What’s interesting about the booktok boom is… all the “popular books” on the platform… were popular on booktube years before… but booktube is always left out of the conversation…. It’s time booktubers got their credit!
@@sayuriakirayuu7944not really? It's just a sub critique about the overall plot of the video. They're not putting down booktok, but rather just saying that it sucks that people have been watching bookish content for over a decade, and possibly even being made fun of reading in like middle school and stuff, to then see this huge boom of "I love reading!" by the same type of people who often hated reading any book for English class, and who made it their personality to not like literature. It's obviously a great thing to see those people change their minds, and finding a hobby because its popular online, isnt a bad thing, but one has to understand that people who have been reading since they could understand a language, do feel a little whip lashed at seeing this massive boom with online book communities when our favorite booktubers back in 2013 had a max of 34k views a video. It's not bad, it's just a little wild.
@rachel5399 your feelings are valid. My comment was that the video was about booktok alone so bringing booktube in here doesn't make sense. I personally enjoy both communities. In my case I always liked reading as a child and then as a teenager I was reading so much more but entering in adulthood because of personal issues I stopped reading all together. Thanks to booktok it got me reading again and ever since I got my kindle last year I haven't stopped. Like I've read 71 books so far since June, I've never read this much before and I'm not slowing down. I also follow a lot of booktubers creators for longer reviews. My point is that just let people be. No matter how, when and in with what format they read...jut let them be and focus on yourself. People will do whatever they want at the end of the day and bitterness helps no one.
remember reading a goodreads review about lolita saying that the book is problematic because the author makes you want to sympathize with humbert and i haven't recovered
Well but to be fair, people have been misinterpreting it ever since it came out (one of the covers literally said something along the lines of "perhaps the most convincing love story of our time")
@@myweakness1883 True, he did such a good job at creating a manipulative character that he tried to groom the readers that this was a tragic love story.
Thank you for such an insightful and thought-provoking video! I'd like to offer my perspective: as a literary editor in a smaller non-English speaking country, I've observed the impact of BookTok, but not quite in the way you describe. While it's true that sales of English-language books have surged, we've also witnessed a concerning decline in the sales of books in our native language. This trend is likely prevalent in many smaller nations, particularly those with high levels of English proficiency. So while I truly believe booktok can be a force for good, I can't help but worry about the fate of literature from smaller non-English speaking countries amidst this mostly English-language phenomenon...
I read The Secret History in 1998 when I was 20 years old. I became obsessed with it, and started drinking scotch and writing poetry on a typewriter. It was all very silly and romantic, but I was completely alone and didn't know anyone that loved it, much less had even read it. I am SO HAPPY that Donna Tartt has gotten the recognition she was due and the fact that it's turned into a whole aesthetic makes my inner 20-year-old so freaking excited! When you say that BookTok has democratized the publishing industry, I am so HERE for it, because we are seeing feminist literature, and more diversity than we have ever seen before. I am so glad that you mentioned that the hate is likely coming from misogyny. Thank you for this incredibly well-thought out and nuanced video essay, I just love your work and it's a joy to hear you talk about books!
While booktok has certainly lead to often reductive understandings of literature. We would ALL be remiss to not appreciative the *immense* gravity in which booktok has effected the accessibility of the publishing industry for the better. As an author of color I would not chose another time to exist within this space. For ONCE in my life I am seeing books hit the shelves where marginalized characters are existing in books without their pain and trauma being the center focus -- booktok is a major contributor to that. The swell that the industry has received in funds from booktok has allowed for publishers to take risks on more debut authors and diverse stories, allowing marginalized authors to debut in genre fiction!! (I'm so overjoyed!) It's truly my greatest hope that these feats of inclusivity remain. xx
The increased accessibility for minority writers is undoubtedly great, but it's abysmal that it took booktok to achieve it. The publishing industry shouldn't be let off the hook for decades of ignoring minority voices until they essentially got vetoed. And the increased accessibility does increase diversity, but it also decreased overall quality. I'd say overall it's a worthwhile exchange, but the number of people that insist the general quality hasn't reduced now that pretty much anyone can get published is delusional.
Just in general, anything that gets people to read can't be all bad (and if it provides opportunities for diverse writers and stories that's even better). That said, i'm inherently wary of putting too much of our culture in the hands of a few private companies, a road we're already too far down IMO. TikTok _looks_ like it's directed by individual users' freely made choices but that's no more true than it is for Facebook, Twitter, RUclips etc. (ultimately they're all driven by the bottom line and theirs depend on the attention economy and its dreaded tool "the algorithm" rather than any concern for culture, books, diversity etc. - they're _always_ going to skew towards whatever gets eyeballs, regardless of how good or bad it is for anyone involved. Right now that may mean encouraging diversity but remember that when it started Twitter _also_ gave oppressed people a voice, yet look how that turned out).
This!!! 👏 Reading is a HOBBY! I think that those who judge others for “not engaging in this hobby correctly” should reflect on what their criticism says about them. I love “deep and poignant” literature too, but as a graduate student working a full time job, I notice that I almost exclusively gravitate toward romance or feel-good novels during the semester because I just want to relax, enjoy, and turn my brain off. People are allowed to enjoy what they enjoy and no one is forcing you to read a Booktok book that you don’t want to read or look down on!
I was the same way when I was working on my PhD. I needed reading that did not require deep analysis. I needed something to help the front burners of my brain be quiet and relaxed. That way the deeper problems could simmer on the back burners until I was ready to tackle them again.
The problem is that most of these romances are full of mysoginy and classism and stereotypes. I am mad that bookshops in my town have changed 50% of books by Colleen Hoover and co. It's not booktoker's fault that the market adapt to them. I am just pissy that they took my sci-fy, biologist, and feminist/socialist books by Colleen Hoover and sh. At the same time I admit that I can simply go to another bookshop. I am just pissy about it bro.
BookTok became popular during the pandemic. And I think people really need to consider that before judging romance readers. People were probably feeling lonely and saw romance books as their outlet.
I don‘t care what other people read. But I would love if my local bookstore hadn’t replaced their entire English language section with a „recommended by TikTok“ section. I understand that this is caused by business decisions, rather than the BookTok community, but as someone who doesn‘t have TikTok that is pretty much the only contact I have with BookTok, and I think it‘s unfortunately the same for other people. It does genuinely make it harder to find books that I like, and that‘s what annoys me, not that someone is „doing a hobby wrong“.
exactly!! sometimes i feel like what i read is "less" important because i chronically read feel-good romance with what i believe is good character progression and storytelling. when in reality, i actively choose not to pursue more worldly and thought-provoking literature because i know while it is so interesting and important, it'll take a lot of my brainpower to fully conceptualise and understand what i'm reading, when what reading is for me, usually, is a medium of relaxation and happy time.
Think this is one of your best videos ever Jack! I really hate the gatekeeping around reading. More readers = better society. Booktok has made both of my kids better readers and helped me relate to them, so count me a fan!
About what Jack is saying at 28:58 , I absolutely rushed through Wuthering Heights hating those characters and realized that Emily Bronte had just done a great job getting me there.
I read it once a year around fall. It was beautifully written and as we age, re-reading books give a different perspective every time. Re-read it last year again, and I think the saying goes in regards to Heathcliffe that "hurt people hurt people". He hurt everyone. But daughter Catherine and Hareton broke the family pain. They suffered but were still optimistic a bit.
Audio quality is so much better now with the mic and the room looks INCREDIBLE (this is the first video I’m watching since you put that room together and omg 🙌🏻❤️)
fr people might be deleting some stuff after they see him be like “the fyp is based on content that YOU ENGAGE WITH” so maybe idk follow some different accounts lol
It is a lot of hate for what? Like Jack said, you curate your feed, engage with what you enjoy. Hating on people for having different book taste than you that you deem is shallow or "bad" is a waste of time. Booktok isn't some homogenous entity, it is a collective of people that like reading and books. Of course there will be varying opinions and books that are more popular than others. Booktok is also mostly women so what those women are reading and the genres they tend to prefer is what will show up more frequently. Society looks down on "women's genres" like romance so why wouldn't the critiques of booktok which is comprised of primarily women mimic the critiques we've been hearing about "women's literature" for hundreds of years. Like what you like and let people like what they like.
I completely agree with the criticisms at the end about misinterpreting themes like in Lolita and The Secret History. Depicting a thing in art and literature does not always equal an endorsement of said thing. Sometimes I think that gets lost in the ~discourse~ sauce.
Yeah, that frustrates me a lot, and particularly about those two books, so I'm very interested that he brought them up. I get frustrated when people read the Secret History and then criticise it, somehow not realising that that was the whole point. But that's okay, just a little annoying. But I once had a friend who went on a long rant about how terrible Lolita is and that it is not a good book or well written. At the time, I hadn't read it, so I asked her to tell me a bit about how it was written and the perspectives of the book, and she turned to me and said in disgust, "I haven't read it!" I remember feeling so hopeless at that moment.
Absolutely and people complain about the unlikeable characters in both books, when thats the point. Since when pedophiles and murderers are likeable anyway? 😂
This reminds me of the Dead Dove: Do not Eat tag on ao3 ( an opensource platform for fanfiction but also hosts original works too). There's a LOT of fucked up themes, characters and stories on that platform. Authors usually tag it with the 'Dead Dove' tag ( alongside the ACTUAL tags that mention themes/tropes/character or relationship dynamics) to indicate that the content of the fic is morally abhorrent and that the author(s) themselves do not actually agree with viewpoints/ actions expressed in the work. Its a great way to warn readers + inform them of authorial intent before they click on the fic. Sometimes I feel like books that explore dark or morally reprehensible themes would benefit immensely if they had a similar system because it would reduce a lot of misinterpretation of said themes.
@@bluehourcore a millllllllllllllllion percent. there's a lot to be talked about with AO3 and how sophisticated algorithms on other platforms have skewed user expectations on content discovery over there - ultimately it comes down to 'don't like, don't read' on that platform and as long as works are tagged correctly that shouldn't be an issue (yet it is lol). Published books having tags is an interesting idea - I wonder how that might look in execution and whether we trust publishers to disclose everything or if it would be a reviewer- or author-driven type of effort - something to think on for that genre (and others, because content in classics (like Lolita) when reduced to a tag are often indistinguishable from 'dark literature' or other uncomfortable works even when context/execution/theme vary wildly), for sure!
@@klatskyn I haven’t read The Secret History yet but I have read Lolita and it is easily one of the most beautifully written books I’ve ever read. Even in most reviews I see hating on it, they have to admit that the prose is excellent. It’s especially impressive when you consider that English wasn’t Nabokov’s first language.
as a librarian i've seen and took part of A LOT of discussion about this topic and i'm so happy with this video because i think you're absolutely right, jack! and it's so important to have somebody with the public you have talking about it, thank you!
Thank you so much for this. I used to be a bookseller and in the early 90s we struggled getting young people into bookshops/ reading. I don’t use TikTok but obviously am watching the equivalent on RUclips and Instagram. Like you say- It has opened my eyes to books, authors and genres that I would have previously dismissed. And me oh my have I discovered great books through this. I no longer work in book selling but know that if I still had my bookshops, booktok etc. would have its own corner. Your defence of it and also wondering if there is an element of misogyny in this all is very valid and food for thought . Thank you so much!
My favorite part is discussing or reading criticism of a book/author. I feel like I have more to work with than just reading the book and feeling emotions.
7:53 book recommendations! A book that critiques society so hard you felt angry yourself * open water - Caleb Azumah Nelson * small things like these - Claire Keegan * black butterflies - Priscilla Morris * against the loveless world - Susan Abulhawa * the final revival of Opal & Nev - Dawnie Walton * home fire - Kamila Shamsie * human acts - Han Kang The literature that only made sense to those who cared * the unbearable lightness of being - Milan Kundera * piranesi - Susanna Clarke * the the seven Moons of Maali Almeida - Shehun Karunatilaka * second place - Rachel Cusk * by Grand Central Station I sat down and wept - Elizabeth Smart The poetry that you really had to analyse to make sense of it * heritage aesthetics - Anthony Anaxagorou * bad diaspora poems - Momtaza Mehri * self-portrait as Othello - Jason Allen-Paisant * bright fear - Mary Jean Chan
As a romance reader who also reads a little bit of everything (lit-fic, mystery, memoir, etc.), thank you for the nuance in this video. I read romance for different reasons than poetry, or fantasy, or classics, and I go to each genre with different expectations because each genre has something different to offer. Not only do a lot of "booktok has ruined reading" critiques come off as rather snobby/elitist, but they're often missing a huge point: even if none of the books you see on booktok are for you, there are MILLIONS of books that are. If people are getting joy out of reading, isn't that the most important thing? (Plus, we don't even have to get into how people dismissing the entire romance genre as "trash" has DEEP roots in patriarchy & misogyny - that's a whole other can of worms.) So, in short, thank you. 💕
ABSOLUTELY about that can of worms, i used to feel ashamed when i was in my early to late teens because i've always only been a romance reader. people would ask me what i was reading and i'd feel ashamed about it, but now that i'm in my twenties i realised it really is just rooted in misogyny. it's only "trashy romance" because women read it, and god forbid women have anything nice. no one thinks sports are trashy because it has a majority male fanbase
@@nataliesvt A lot of romance IS trashy, though... How does thinking that most smutty books are trashy mean that someone hates women? Sorry, I’m not connecting that. You may not call sports ‘trashy’, but women have bashed men for liking that hobby (and others) in other ways since forever, so it’s not really a good example to support your worldview of everything just being against women. It’s not like romance is the only genre to be considered trashy or low-brow, either. Nothing wrong with enjoying trashy books every now and then. Just own it. LOL
@@bluecannibaleyesromnace books are typically trashy if they’re mostly erotica, but a lot of them aren’t. I’ve heard people say Mariana Zapata books are trashy because they’re romance books, which means that people are just assuming that all romance is trash because there are genuine relationships in them? I genuinely don’t understand the hate that we get for reading so called “trashy” books when men are praised for having a high body count. I’m actually not a modern feminist, but I can’t deny that there’s still a lot of misogyny there.
@@vashtinayagar1325 I mean, if you think that most romance novels depict ‘genuine relationships’ then idk what to tell you... I think that’s part of why women get judged for reading it. It seems to make them think that the romance they read about is realistic when it’s not. Er0tica/romance novels are basically women’s version of pr0n. Men get shamed for watching that all the time. Rightfully so. Men don’t get praised for a high body count. I’m not sure why so many women believe that they do, or why they think that women being overly sxual is somehow a good response to men being manwh0res.
@@vashtinayagar1325 I mean, if you think that most romance novels depict genuine relationships then idk what to tell you... I think that’s part of why women get judged for reading it. It seems to make them think that the r0mance they read about is realistic when it’s not. Er0tica/romance novels are basically women’s version of pr0n. Men get sh@med for watching that all the time. And rightfully so. Men don’t get praised for a high body count. I’m not sure why so many women believe that they do, or why they think that women being overly sxual is somehow a good response to men being manwh0res.
love this! i love your take on booktok as a context and your view of the book industry as an ecosystem, everything is intertwined. also, shallow popular books have always existed (as well as deep popular books), booktok is just a medium in which they are amplified, but that happens also to more random, unique ones. this video is just chef kiss
There actually is some kind of sports equivalent tbh, with football at least in my experience if you haven’t been to see the team you support live then you’re called a ‘plastic’, meaning you’re a ‘fake’ fan. That term is also used for people who switch what teams they support. It just shows how this weird gatekeeping is everywhere, you can’t be a ‘real’ fan if you’ve not seen your team live/gone to a home game or any game at all, you can’t be a ‘real’ fan of a certain band/artist if you can’t name all their albums/songs, and now it’s you can’t be a reader if you like booktok or whatever. It’s very strange really lol
It's also the people who are 'outraged' by the supposed tastelessness of popular trendy books who prob get an ego boost from being into 'niche' or 'highbrow' literature. something cant be niche without mainstream to go along with it.
I am not on booktok but what you said about engaging in your hobby, reading in this case, by watching content about it, is so true and validating. I have chronic health issues and it makes it so that I rarely have the mental energy to read anymore, but I spend so much time on booktube or other social media discussing books I love, searching for artists who make great fanarts and things like that. I discovered great musical or theatrical adaptations of books I knew I'd like but didn't manage to read because of fatigue. This all reading for me. And everything you said about the publishing industry as an ecosystem was really interesting from my point fo view of a librarian!
YES. YES. YES. I have thought very extensively about our hyperbolic language usage and how it creates a disconnect between us and the actual words that we use every day. It’s awesome to hear you describe it so eloquently.
Super friendly and generous reasoning. My issue is still that the FYP incentivizes the scandalous/dramatic even if there is a niche for thoughtful books. And what’s more you can’t change the medium itself. A vertical screen with short form videos, littered with distractions and the rush to always go on - no matter how thoughtfully one engages that setup it always be less thoughtful than engaging the book in other, more thoughtful ways. Always be surrounded by landlines of distraction & condensed content. I’ve found good books and think there are good creators, but I have no illusions that booktok can go much deeper than surface level
THANK YOU! I’ve never understood the not letting people enjoy what they love because you think what you love is better. One of the reasons booktok is so great is because of how diverse it is, and the various types of different readers on the app. LET PPL ENJOY WHAT THEY LOVE!
I disagree, people can critique as much as they want, and if those critiques impact you so much, I think that's an indication that you are aware or the flaws within whatever youre engaging with and would rather not think about it. Which is fine, but criticizing isnt actually preventing you from enjoying something.
No, I really understand what the first person is saying. My bookshops have been Colleen Hooverified and it is now hard to find interesting books. They also replaced sci-fy by romance... I would have no problem with romance if the stories were ... Great and not stereotypical. I hate stereotypes and these are full of it. I don't even need to read the first chapter to know how it ends. All the characters are stereotypes and tropes. Do not start me how mysoginistic and classist most of these stories are. I am a part time hater, I know.
this is an amazing, transformative take on the whole issue that i haven't seen before. all i've been hearing is the tiktok fast-fashion thing but i think you have a POINT you know. 10/10, completely agree!!!
"You are allowed to enjoy art" I absolutely agree with this POV - sometimes, I like a book a lot even though it may have had plot holes, or the writing lacked depth, but the story made me feel a certain way. And it's alright to read books like these once in a while, I also like to think of it as enjoying art. Loved this video!
I agree that as long as you're reading it's not performative however the books that gain the most traction on Tiktok seem very... one note? Books like Love Hypothesis, Spanish Love Deception, literally any hockey romance ever. I think by consequence of these books getting what seems to be the most attention they are unequivocally pushed the most, therefore taking away platforms from books that are just frankly full of more substance like the ones mentioned in this video in response to that woman asking what happened to them? Just today I was in Target and I had such a hard time finding any books that weren't part of this new literary canon involving barely anything but "spice". I wouldn't see this as a problem if stores like Target, Walmart etc etc weren't the place that people actively go to for books as book stores are getting more and more rare as the days go on. This also creates a huge misguide for people who are just beginning to become readers. I agree that we are absolutely giving too much power to Tiktok by saying its "ruined reading" but ultimately it is, at least I think, changing how books are pushed to audiences for the worse. It just bothers me that it took me months to find Almond anywhere but I could get on a bus right now and pick up any Hoover book I want. That is all. I dont have Tiktok but most of these referenced Booktook sections seem to be bloated with books like the cheap romances I've been talking out, that's where my perception of Booktok comes from because it is what is impacting the way I as someone who has nothing to do with Tiktok can find the books I want.
This was an incredibly insightful video and it reminded me of something one of my professors told me when I was complaining about Hollywood’s lack of new stories. And he basically said it’s your job as the movie watcher to be more active in your search for thought provoking, original films. If the only place I’m looking is Hollywood for movies, especially when I want more diverse stories, it’s unfair for me to say that nothing is new anymore. It’s out there, you just have to look for it. I think as you said at the beginning of the video it’s the same thing with literature
Honestly, this video is overall about BookTok, but I appreciate all the rest you discuss: supporting niche publishers, authors, and stores; appreciating books for a variety of reasons; the importance of popular culture to promote an industry; revivification of older books... and all the rest. The past few years, I've been consuming a lot of fanfiction rather than just books, and felt bad that my book reading count fell, because that made me feel like I wasn't reading enough. Then I realized I'd read nearly 2,000 fics (of varying lengths, of course) in less than a year, so my gauge of what counts as reading just needs to change. Thanks for helping with that in this video. And thanks for being part of my engagement with reading!
I think this is your best video yet Jack! And I’ve been a fan for years! Such a valid point about The Secret History. I did not see the camp rock cutaway coming 😂
The thing I dislike about Booktok being such a big thing is Kindle books where the only edition available to me has "Tiktok made me buy it!" in the title. That's kind of like stickers on the cover that you can't remove. I so wish they didn't do that. None of the kindle books I bought with that on them were because of Tiktok for me anyway.
Again, like Jack mentioned - it's purely marketing! People will search for booktok, it links together other books they may like when browsing. I understand it's frustrating though like those stickers haha 😅
But previously it would be stickers from newspapers or magazines or as seen on tv so it’s not anything new it’s just a different medium because that is what’s more current now
My brother doesnt do the whole internet thing, but he works in a bookstore and talks about how awful the booktok trends are and how he can tell when someone is just picking something up because they saw it in a tiktok. Someone who has never been on tiktok before is noticing these things as an outsider. Thats how bad booktok is!
yes! 28:07 I often feel like people are reading two different books! Reading comprehension is low in some of these conversations since folks learned the words "romanticized" and "glamorized." Like no babe, the author is critiquing this, not supporting it.
People criticizing, let’s face it, mostly women for enjoying books with similar tropes has the same energy as people criticizing women for enjoying pumpkin spice lattes. Just let people like what they like. 🙄
Jack’s channel is like a cozy corner of the internet. These are the type of conversations I yearn for when I say I want to have a glass of wine and have thought provoking conversations with others. Also the editing is class 💅🏽💅🏽💅🏽
I really like this video because it does emphasise the importance and need of a community when it comes to reading. A lot of readers don't have people around them to talk about their favourite books with but Booktok, Bookstagram, Booktube and podcasts give them an opportunity to interact with people who like the same things as them. Isn't that what social media is all about at the end of the day?
You dissecting topics such as this one from a warm, multi-layered perspective is always so refreshing and great! Thank you so much for your insights :)
I agree with most of this! A few of my own opinions on this: 1. I don’t have a problem with tropes inherently or with putting books in certain categories, but I do have a problem with the way they tend to be used for marketing. It’s way easier to market a book by stapling a list of tropes to the cover- “enemies to lovers” “grumpy/sunshine” ect.- and I’ve definitely read books where it felt like a really interesting premise was simplified to fit a certain trope, or I felt like the book leaned waaaay too much into the trope at the expense of plot or character development. I worry that this trend is going to make it more difficult for books that don’t easily fit any categories to be published, that it’s reductive for books that *can* fit a specific category but that’s not really the point, ect. Categorization can be really helpful, and tropes are obviously necessary as storytelling tools, but I don’t love how it’s used as a marketing strategy. The enemy is not booktok, it’s ✨capitalism!✨ 2. Some people. Just some! Not most! Some people simply do not know how to behave. It is *very easy* to forget that the things you do and say and promote online have actual real life consequences. Every time there’s new booktok drama, I can’t help but think that this simply would not be a problem if anyone involved had literally any other hobbies. Go outside. Booktok is great! Booktok is wonderful! But it suffers the same problem as any online space- namely, *being online constantly all the time is not good for you*, and it is extremely easy to forget that the people youre interacting with are actual real people with lives and boundaries. Nothing quite feels real online- there’s a degree of separation that makes it much easier to do and say things you would NEVER do or say irl. It goes back to what Jack said about how people can be really mean. When you spend all of your time consuming media, either reading or on TikTok or whatever, nothing feels real anymore and it’s easy to forget that your actions have consequences. I think this is more a problem with the platform itself than the users- TikTok is literally designed to be addictive- but I do think it encourages a certain level of distance from reality that isn’t super healthy. Gonna hope that what I’m saying in both these points is clear, I simply could not be bothered to edit and proofread this RUclips comment. But I think there are a lot of good points here! Booktok is an incredibly valuable resource and a really great community, I just think capitalism loves to ruin everything good in the world and also some people need to learn how to behave online.
I love a trope before they were being publicised as a said trope. Tropes have always been around though, and the marketing allows people to find similar books. Yes people may write to the trope but that is nothing new
I think I've commented this on every video I could find but jack we need and Emma Watson video. She seems like a person who genuinely cares about books and the way they impact people. Also the fact that she used to leave books in public places for people to read is so amazing
@@JamesLawner she is ok, recently she said that would only act in things she believes in, not every movie they offer to her... aka: now that i have money and am respected, i will just do what is good and keeps my name clean
I struggle lately a lot with depression and mental illnesses and I love reading. Your videos always cheer me up, because you are always so happy and enthusiastic. Thank you for everything you make and keep going!!
This was such a great video cause before watching this video I too viewed booktok as like the worst thing to happen to reading but you have completely changed my perspective just once again proving why you're my favourite youtuber.
They definitely have “performative fans” in sports. What other people would call fair weather fans that only pop up when the team is winning but have no history following the team or familiarity with the players. But I get your point because a woman is also more likely to be called this too if they had sudden interest in sports versus a man, but it does still happen
yes it does still happen but is not as common term or people have no idea about it, meanwhile in terms of female dominant hobbies in a lot of people views everything women do is performative...there is a huge bias there
1:56 I recently had to analyze the Trial of Anne Hutchinson and her bookclub because yes, they banished Hutchinson family for her being too political in her religious arguments. There was no such thing as religious tolerance. But indeed, she was one of the first women to make a Book Club
Situating booktok/tube/other means of engaging with reading as beneficial facets of reading as a hobby is such a new and revolutionary perspective to me! Thank you so much that's truly validating💚
I still love booktok, but the things I hate about it are 1. cancel culture 2. elitism (people literally think they’re so much better for reading certain authors books or abstaining from certain books) 3. developing thoughts on books before reading them (sometimes it takes out the joy of just simply enjoying it myself)
"Just because something's cliche doesn't mean that it's not something that's awesome. The worst kind of person is someone who makes someone feel bad, dumb or stupid for.. being excited about something." - Taylor Swift You made such good points, Jack!
Guys get called out for pretending to be into sports when they aren't really. Many are just saying they're fans because it is easy to say and it's a guy thing to say so might as well. People pretend to be into things for social acceptance or popularity and that is what that comment is addressing. It isn't a gender thing. Are people actually reading the books? Especially those who don't do this for a living but make book haul videos of 50 books or more at a time? When everything becomes an esthetic, it does beg to ask what are we doing and why are we doing it? Is it better to read smut than not read at all? What do we get from booktok other then recommendations? These are valid questions.
Honestly, the harsh language of those with book opinions dissimilar to mine is the reason why my book reviews on tiktok are so generic and brief. I give one sentence about the book, one sentence about how I felt reading it and a 1-5 star rating. I don't even show my face or use my voice. I wish to have more courage so I can be more open and conversational about books I've read and how I feel but I worry others will ruin my experience.
I first started reading again bc of BookTok, but it quickly took me out after I was over the shallow books it was pushing to me. It is after I’ve left the BookTok community, after I allowed myself to choose books that I’d genuinely enjoy, instead of just following trends, that I’ve started reading once again and it no longer feels like a chore.
oh I loved this take! as someone who rediscovered their love for reading as an adult through booktok, seeing this new trending take that booktok has ruined reading was really upsetting. at this point I’ve seen so many different corners of booktok (literary fiction, horror, nonfiction, romance, etc.) and seeing people claim that only the same 5 books get recommended is very frustrating. of course booktok isn’t a perfect space, and I agree with your criticisms! the problem is that some people see these issues and create a catastrophe out of a hiccup.
Everything about this was so well done. You have so calmly and kindly dismantled an array of negative comments and click-bait articles while also acknowledging pitfalls and room for improvement. There are lots of points in this video I will be thinking about for a long time. Just know that if you ever made a podcast I would listen all the time!
I loved how you used logical reasoning and actually broke every topic down, and gave your opinion in a calm and composed manner while backing your opinions with facts. It was refreshing and cozy to listen to you and I really enjoyed it. Please make more videos like this :))
As someone who tends to be a bit judgmental and critical of Bookstagram and BookTok, I agree with your core points and try not to contribute to the divisive dialog (even though I still think most readers are too exclusive with their genres). I think the FYP point is a bit of an idealistic view of how the algorithm is /supposed/ to work when the reality is, there's only so much curation that can be done. Instagram is well-aware I'm a reader and I follow a great deal of diverse creators. But as far as the algorithm goes? There's no nuance. Since I'm a reader, it will never not suggest content related to ACOTAR, Colleen Hoover, SJM and spicy books. How about nonfiction? Oh, then I must love Atomic Habits and /only/ Atomic Habits. It is true there are content creators out there for everyone but I would argue, the algorithm doesn't appear to work in their favor. And if you're chronically online, that can sometimes make these book communities feel like boring echo-chambers.
the atomic habits is so real! nonfiction = self-help on instagram, it's the exact same situation and there's no way out of it since bot accounts seeking maximum engagement outnumber people so significantly while browsing. instagram comments are criticized for being evil and they are, but that feels like a direct result of what it pushes on the explore page and their use of autoplay video. i have been actively, obsessively trying to like and dismiss things for 5+ years to try and fine tune all the social media i use, the difference it makes is minimal. the idea that you could manipulate recommendations down to the genre of books is a fantasy, you can basically narrow it down to a few subcultures (but never just one. i'd love an option to like, just see cats, but it's always going to push more diversified recommendations than that, so again the idea you could filter out parts of a culture you are interested in is just laughable) the only way out of it is to not be on the app, otherwise it's gonna autoplay something (increasingly, intentionally) stupid to make you mad. the best fix to this was a tumblr blacklist back in the day! great for when it's 2014 and you love fall out boy but hate twenty one pilots, many such cases!
This. Social media algorithms don't just conform to your engagement habits but also factor in age, gender, what you have Googled, location, etc. It can be frustrating to be put into the romantasy "bubble" even if you don't like it just because you are a 20+ woman. So in some ways just engaging with BookTok alone and not also with your local library, bookstore, etc will give you a not very diverse view of what's available. BookTok CAN be homogenizing unless you make a real effort...but why do that when TikTok is designed to just keep you scrolling as long as possible?
I like your points. If you’re looking for a solid nonfiction book, I just read Malcolm Gladwell’s “Outliers” and it knocked my socks off. Such a thought-provoking read :)
Absolutely loved this video and the nuance you bring to the entire booktok conversation, while also focusing on the (mostly good) impact booktok has on the publishing industry. It's really interesting to watch this conversation as someone who isn't active on TikTok. I used to be, but realised I spent way too much time mindlessly scrolling, so have removed the app ever since. In a way, I do feel like I miss out on community, recommendations and interesting conversations about the books I love. Especially because I find it difficult to find people who love reading literary fiction, as it is more of a niche still. Im just happy more and more people have fallen in love with reading again. Plus I do adore how much love the libraries have been getting lately, they are having a surge in popularity as well, and it is great for so many reasons.
I used to judge people for what they read but there’s a reason I grew out of it by the time I reached adulthood. Reading is awesome. It exercises your brain, reading in bed is a healthier alternative to scrolling that eases you into a better sleep, it gets you through long queues and bus rides, it’s an excellent conversation topic, it connects people, cultivates creativity AND books look phenomenal in any room. How can I ever be angry with books. Also The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo is SO good, it deserves every single penny it made thanks to booktok girlies.
Great points, totally agree and enjoyed this discussion. I think that one reason people feel threatened by BookTok that's quite small and niche is that some people have a very personal connection to reading, have used it as serious therapy for understanding their own trauma and those people, often introverted and misunderstood have had an armor through books... and it ALSO created a kind of outward sign to others of who they were. Now all readers are in some diluted soup, and where they once felt seen they feel even more misunderstood. I never see people talk about that, but I do think it exists. I think that loss of identity that social media, generally, has facilitated has put a bad taste in people's mouths and even been a hurtful side effect. I just want to see publishing's keep on thriving! And I want everyone to keep enjoying books.
I very much enjoyed listening to you break down and reflecting on booktok. I have seen it come up more and more about what a reader “should be” and what books are “good”. The idea of an ecosystem in publishing , enjoying a hobby in different ways, being able to enjoy different genres, having conversations around morality and themes… got me thinking and just enjoyed it. Thank you for creating and sharing your perspective 😊
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i think it'd be really nice to create a thread of booktok creators who share thought-provoking, diverse books!!! pls reply to comment with your favourite booktok creators ✨
jack edwards 👏🏼
bcemercer
sp3llb00k
robert.reads
billreads
while i do love being a hater, this is a refreshing and neutral take to hear
loving being a hater is wild
@@sayuriakirayuu7944ok grow up
@@diya-hn2wy wut?????????
@@diya-hn2wyyou should grow up and stop ruining everyone else's joy if you're such a mentally disturbed hater lol. i can't believe people like you think that it's a thing to flex about.
😂
As an English teacher, I’m just glad that people are reading. I mean, so many of my students complain about their attention span because of the overwhelming information they get all the time. It’s nice that there’s a space on TikTok - which is usually the culprit - that encourages any kind of reading.
I might not like most of the books I see recommended on TikTok, but once you start reading, it’s easy to guide you to better stuff
I agree. Everyone in one of my classes read a really, really bad tiktok-trending book and it was time well spent.
They laughed at the bad language, the obvious plot holes, but they read.
And at the end we learnt a lot more from discussing that book (and rewriting parts of it) than we did from their boring textbooks or from the ”good books”.
100% this!!! ❤
Maybe a way to engage with your students and share good lit is for you to create your own booktok page? As a former English teacher, I'd follow it to find good reads.
I was talking to a customer who is a teach and every year she a student or two that kind of become her mission to get to like reading. Comics/graphic novels and books about things they like are good ones
Good to get kids to start reading young with easier fiction to train their mind cinema screens xD
this is like if people got mad at spotify because all the top hits playlists have drake and taylor swift on it
That's actually SUCH a good comparison
yall need to watch alisha's "why its okay to be a hater" she breaks down stuff on this amazingly
Nah, it's definitely booktok that is trash. Can't find a decent/original recommendation to save my life in there. But I'll find one in minutes in other platforms
I am mad at spotify for that though
ur so smart for this analogy slay
“For you page is quite literally FOR YOU” preach!
dunno man, it's hard to come across books that aren't smutty. i think there is some weird system with reels i need to figure out
👀
like thats a YOU problem, and hes right
There was another content creator on youtube who tried to get TikTok to show him more classic and literary fiction, and it was a struggle for him. There are very few tiktok creators that have this niche, and I think that can be an argument to be made against TikTok books, but its more of a problem of the platform itself.
@radumotrescu3832 I was going to mention this. I was able to get some more diverse book recommendations on my page after a lot of work, but I still got pushed ACOTAR and Fourth Wing onto my page no matter how many times I told them I wasn't interested. Definitely it's part you, but some things are so prevalent and are all tagged booktok, which can be very challenging to get out! Thankfully I somehow managed to keep Colleen Hoover off my page somehow, so some of it works!
The ghost of the Spanish love deception will continue to haunt jack until the end of time
😂😂 He may never recover
He's so right I'm glad I'm not the only one who hated it sm
Me too! Omg it was the 1st book where i genuinely felt robbed of time. I was just like "Give me my time back, you 400 pages long for no reason-book."😂😅@@Sam-h3x9u
i have a very restricted book collection and this was one of my first books that i bought and it almost made me want to never rea again. the characters were so one dimensional and it had a non existent plot
this book still haunts me. I hated it w every inch of my being. I'm triggered
Calling someone a “performative sports fan” is not something I ever thought I’d hear irl but this is very much a thing that female fans of Formula 1 hear.
I have also been called this as a female football fan (called a fake fan). People will find so many ways to gatekeep hobbies.
@@crzn07 so annoying
This is one of my biggest problems with so many men who watch sport. Instead of letting women enjoy something like a sport like f1 and celebrating it, they immediately make assumptions that we are there for the faces or the "hot guys". It's fine to enjoy a sport because you like the athletes participating in said sport, but not all of us are there for that. I think that this is ESPECIALLY prevalent in f1 because it is SUCH a male dominated sport.
And skateboarding
Thank you! You've proven his point of misogyny.
great stuff. i’m a staunch tik tok hater but people claiming that tik tok has “ruined” reading is giving the app way too much credit. just because smutty colleen hoover clones are the popular thing right now doesn’t mean they are the only books that exist ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ new great complex novels are being published all the time
right?? it's giving "i was born in the wrong generation and there's no music as good as queen or the beatles now" when there absolutely is and these people are just not putting in the effort to look for the kind of art that they want. they confine themselves to what's popular and refuse to go out of that comfort zone and are surprised when they don't finding anything subversive or interesting
And novels have been published for hundreds of years. Read some older books! You do not have to only read new releases, what's popular, or the classics. There are so many books out there, get out there and find something good!
okay but tiktok is the biggest platform with the biggest influence currently, and you literally can't ignore it's effect on people. It definitely alters the culture around reading for a lot of people, including the people around me and I can see it.
@@michaeldeguzman3852 Singers started to make tiktok music because that's what sells now due to tiktok (which is something Adele said herself), so yeah, it does have a great effect on authors' work as well. Jack never said "there aren't any good books anymore, I was born in the wrong generation", but he is saying it's impossible for us to ignore the influence tiktok has on books as well. I think you are just putting words into his mouth he never said and misunderstanding
Exactly what I thought about the first clip. If you don't like the books popular on tiktok then you don't have to read those books. But that person was acting as if no other books exist and that is just not true. For example, there is so much classic literature and poetry that one person could not read it in one lifetime. I think the first person cares more about becoming popular on tiktok by voicing her opinion than she does about reading the kinds of books she claims to want to read.
Jack, your point about the underlying misogyny in hating 'being a reader' really got me thinking. Thank you for using your platform to educate me (and others) in such a casual and entertaining way. Well done!
Lmao knowing that most romance books are mysoginistic and sexist
I feel exactly the same.
@@mississipi1103 But that's what woman read, like, they look for this mysoginistic and sexist stuff because they lust for it.
And most of those misogynistic books are written by women. the irony
You should watch The Book Leo's video responding to the same article Jack mentioned if you found this point interesting :)
I mean in 2024 BookTok is ruining reading and in 2006 it was Twilight and in 2001 it was Harry Potter. Something is always “ruining reading”.
Yes to this!! There’s always a popular book trend that’s ‘ruined’ reading. I was a Harry Potter reader since 1997, and then loved twilight when it came out in 2006 (I don’t anymore but WHAT a time) and the hate I used to see when these things were the ‘thing’ of the time made me feel so bad and I used to hide it. Not a TikTok fan myself, but I’m not gonna hate on it.
Genuine question because Twilight and HP were good book series but on BookTok people get book recommendations - isn’t that kind of different?
popular book series vs. a plattform recommending certain books (especially to a young generation)
did yo even watched the video???? @@ajls9
And most of the time it's women and girls "ruining" it, as Jack pointed out :/
@@ajls9 yes and no. If you asked anyone in 2006 for a book recommendation, the answer was always almost exclusively Twilight making people say it “ruined reading” because that was all people were talking about. I remember multiple end-caps at Walmart being dedicated solely to it and the fight over copies when New Moon came out was just ridiculous.
My biggest problem with "booktok books" is that they (at least in Poland) are the most popular among teenagers rather than young adults. Many of those books have inappropriate contents for that age-group (18+/16+) which often promote sexist views, violent/unsafe/unrealistic love making with makes those children fantasise about things like that or even encourages them to try it. Those books in Poland can be seen the most in the hands of 10-14 year-olds with is really concerning. Also there was recently a sort of 'drama' where one of the famous book publishing house launched a book 18+, written by a 15 year-old girl.
“just like any white guy with a podcast mic and some unsolicited opinions”😭😭😭
@sapphire_1710 haha thanks, i appreciate that
Thank you for quoting this - an iconic intro
Idk whether to cry or laugh bc it’s true 😭😭😭😭😭😭
This made me cackle
i lol’d at this
I am critical of booktok not because of the tiktok videos but because of what it does to the world of publishing. Bookstores are filled with shelves and shelves of Colleen Hoover and are focusing less and less on literary works. Authors now have to market themselves on social media to get a publishing deal and/or readers. We are not criticizing other people's for you pages but the real world impact of the majority of the booktok community.
That’s happening to every industry as a result of the advancement of technology. That’s not something tiktok is doing to publishing 😂
It has a lot to do with the algorithms too. Authors have to have enough followers or w=views or what ever to make an impact
and this affects the actual quality of writing. This isn't about the plot and themes itself but the pacing and writing is objectivly bad. They have such good plots but because of the publishing and book community focusing so much on tropes these writers don't focus on the plot but the tropes and scenes that they want to happen in it that they don't flesh out the characters once so ever. there is an author that doesnt even know the age of her male lead
It's happening with music as well.
@@xxAMAZINGxx62 it is happening to industry, and thats really sad. Movies, books, music, art in general is getting increasingly low-effort and hollow. Good art is still being produced, but popularisation of easily digestable, superficially exciting, forgettable media is taking over the market. It's really quantity over quality, like fast food. And I enjoy me a burger from time to time but I don't want McDonalds to be on my everyday menu
11:52 The only times I ever hear sports being “performative” is when women are involved (think only watching American Football because of Taylor Swift). Men are rarely perceived to be performative in their enjoyment of sports, even though they weren’t soccer fans until the World Cup…
I don’t have adequate words to express how much I love this comment. I really hate the perception that female sports fans do not exist without the influence of a pop star. The way he related sports to reading and the misogyny associated with them was so refreshing!
true but whats wrong with being a genuine football fan after seeing the world cup? 🥹
YES! I was just about to comment something like this! As a woman who is a fan of football I often am perceived by men as being performative in my enjoyment of the sport. It’s gotten to the point where I just don’t tell people I like football because they either roll their eyes or quiz me on it…
@@ErikaLM10 NOTHING! The point is none of it is performative. Enjoy what you enjoy for the reasons you enjoy them. Whatever it is that gets you into the hobby just go for it
I raced to the comments to point this out!! Anything we do is performative in some fucking way 🤷♀️
YES! just because i don’t read every free hour of the day doesn’t mean i perform my love for reading. i’m just a tired girl, but whenever i do find the time, i find so much joy in it! calling it performative sets such weird expectations of how people should engage in their hobbies
Same with me and sewing. I don't always feel like it
these videos where you just sit and talk are my favourite. it's just so cozy
His video on how to read books like him is so cozy too
Same
or when he does his marathon readings and gives us three thousand reviews, feelings, and historical facts while wearing a cardigan.
yess i could listen to him for hours
Honestly I read so many good books cause of tiktok. Also a couple of bad ones. But one book jumped out at me and I was shocked, the book is called - The Hidden Truths Of Wealth, It will reveal to you how today's business gurus actually manipulate and make money.
Where did you find it?
Borlest
Examples?
I don't have tiktok and so by extension don't read booktok books but the level of passion and LOGICAL REASONING in this video? I thoroughly and profusely enjoyed this
For real, most of the things I see on the Internet are just either utter hate or love and just subjective opinions (which is fine too, ofc!) but it's so refreshing to see someone talk so objectively and politely
@@mayasworteexactly!
Couldn’t have said it better!
I think a lot of people are reading booktok books without realizing it. They just know it's a popular book. They don't necessarily know why.
@@KaiOpakawell unless you don't read popular books just because they're popular 😅
I think the whole “performative” thing you discussed is my main issue with booktok. But it reminds me of how long-time fans of anime or Dungeons and Dragons sometimes feel about the main-streamification of their hobbies. These are things they were bullied for in school, and now the cool kids want to participate too. That’s how I feel when I see these bookshelves full of brand new Sarah J. Maas books. I have been a reader since I was four, and while I am literally a librarian and want everyone to be a reader, seeing the kind of people who would have bullied me as a kid find refuge in reading (as I have always done) is kind of challenging.
Honestly, the people claiming that booktok wiped out "real literature" must not be looking far? I understand feeling frustrated with current reading trends, but I am always adding books to my TBR with multiple layers of depth. I don't have TikTok, so my book recommendations are not usually curated by an algorithm. The inability to find thought-provoking books is almost a reflection on the people voicing the complaint. They don't need to tear down BookTok readers because of it!
YES thank you! It's as if Tiktok is holding them at gun point to only read these books 🙄
Fr. Like I feel like people forget to go out and look for books themselves or even talk to librarians/bookstore employees. Like most bookstores have staff recommendations shelves and I’ve yet to meet a librarian who wasn’t ready and willing to locate the best book that suits your needs/wants. And a lot of people think that just because something is contemporary that it’s trash literature. It’s not. I just spoke at a conference about female written
femme fatales during the 1940s and I was asked about Gillian Flynn (? Sorry I read 1 book) being a contemporary example of nonconforming femme fatale characters (the works I discussed had characters who were presented as ff but showed a mixture of traits). And it’s like yeah, Flynn is helping form a new genre called midwestern gothic where a lot of her protagonists have redeemer (homemaker), femme fatale, and female detective traits. And do you want to know what famous author wasn’t considered worthy of academic attention until the 1920s? Freaking Charles Dickens! He was seen as low brow literature and now there’s massive amounts of “Dickensian” scholars running amok
Classic case of confusing the culprit with the weapon
THANK YOU!! I so agree with this! Also, even though there are bad booktok books too, some of those books are famous for a reason! And for example the country I live in, we dont have a great selection of english books in most of the bookstores. Pretty much the only diverse bookstore in my country is in the captial city, where for some (me included) it takes really long to drive to! And for example i enjoy reading more in english and want to improve my language skills. So i got to work with what i have, and what i have are booktok books, from which some are actually quite good!
@@e.a.6136 The stereotypical booktok book is a romance book. So it uses easier English. I love the Hunger Games, but while rereading in English I got so tired of not knowing a word on every page that I read Catching Fire in my native language. So booktok books are very good for people who are learning English
One thing that really turned around my thinking similar things to those mentioned in this video was someone at university pointing out - people are READING. How can we be angry that people are developing their reading and engaging with a slower hobby that is good for your brain and your language development and emotional wellbeing?? I used to think kids books about footballers were silly, but if they get more young boys to read (who often struggle to / are discouraged to) then they are useful and valuable.
I didn't have anybody to talk about books with before joining booktok. Now I've got some bookish friends and I can post book reviews and bookish memes when I want. So it's a win win to me, I feel like.
Same. I feel booktube helped me expand as well since i wouldnt have known to jump in new genres if not for booktube
exactly! so many of my friends have started reading again and now i have people to talk about books with irl and online
I'm not on TikTok but I found my tribes on Reddit. That's why I like social media. I didn't have anybody to talk to irl about romance novels (which I mainly read) and books in general. I've gotten good book recommendations from r/romancebooks and r/books.
People hated on james patterson so much but a lot of his stuff was my fav growing up, it really was half of what i was reading to develop my book obsession
What’s interesting about the booktok boom is… all the “popular books” on the platform… were popular on booktube years before… but booktube is always left out of the conversation…. It’s time booktubers got their credit!
THISSS
yeah sure but you missed the entire point
@@sayuriakirayuu7944not really? It's just a sub critique about the overall plot of the video. They're not putting down booktok, but rather just saying that it sucks that people have been watching bookish content for over a decade, and possibly even being made fun of reading in like middle school and stuff, to then see this huge boom of "I love reading!" by the same type of people who often hated reading any book for English class, and who made it their personality to not like literature. It's obviously a great thing to see those people change their minds, and finding a hobby because its popular online, isnt a bad thing, but one has to understand that people who have been reading since they could understand a language, do feel a little whip lashed at seeing this massive boom with online book communities when our favorite booktubers back in 2013 had a max of 34k views a video. It's not bad, it's just a little wild.
@rachel5399 your feelings are valid. My comment was that the video was about booktok alone so bringing booktube in here doesn't make sense. I personally enjoy both communities. In my case I always liked reading as a child and then as a teenager I was reading so much more but entering in adulthood because of personal issues I stopped reading all together. Thanks to booktok it got me reading again and ever since I got my kindle last year I haven't stopped. Like I've read 71 books so far since June, I've never read this much before and I'm not slowing down. I also follow a lot of booktubers creators for longer reviews. My point is that just let people be. No matter how, when and in with what format they read...jut let them be and focus on yourself. People will do whatever they want at the end of the day and bitterness helps no one.
And they would have been popular regardless. It's the people who recommend the ones who are to blame for wanting that content, not the platform itself
I love the quote by Naval Ravikant that goes along “Read what you Love to love to Read”.
remember reading a goodreads review about lolita saying that the book is problematic because the author makes you want to sympathize with humbert and i haven't recovered
Ugh, twitter was also ranting about how some people didn't know what the book was about.
Well but to be fair, people have been misinterpreting it ever since it came out (one of the covers literally said something along the lines of "perhaps the most convincing love story of our time")
@@myweakness1883 True, he did such a good job at creating a manipulative character that he tried to groom the readers that this was a tragic love story.
@@trayvixk4642 Right? That's why it's probably my favorite book even though it made me sick to my stomach the first time I read it
ITS LITERALLY A BOOK EXPLORING THE CONCEPT OF AN UNRELIABLE NARRATOR so im with you
Thank you for such an insightful and thought-provoking video! I'd like to offer my perspective: as a literary editor in a smaller non-English speaking country, I've observed the impact of BookTok, but not quite in the way you describe. While it's true that sales of English-language books have surged, we've also witnessed a concerning decline in the sales of books in our native language. This trend is likely prevalent in many smaller nations, particularly those with high levels of English proficiency. So while I truly believe booktok can be a force for good, I can't help but worry about the fate of literature from smaller non-English speaking countries amidst this mostly English-language phenomenon...
I read The Secret History in 1998 when I was 20 years old. I became obsessed with it, and started drinking scotch and writing poetry on a typewriter. It was all very silly and romantic, but I was completely alone and didn't know anyone that loved it, much less had even read it. I am SO HAPPY that Donna Tartt has gotten the recognition she was due and the fact that it's turned into a whole aesthetic makes my inner 20-year-old so freaking excited! When you say that BookTok has democratized the publishing industry, I am so HERE for it, because we are seeing feminist literature, and more diversity than we have ever seen before. I am so glad that you mentioned that the hate is likely coming from misogyny. Thank you for this incredibly well-thought out and nuanced video essay, I just love your work and it's a joy to hear you talk about books!
also i think booktok has really improved the book cover designs in book shops! because of how visual it is i love book covers at the moment!!!
While booktok has certainly lead to often reductive understandings of literature. We would ALL be remiss to not appreciative the *immense* gravity in which booktok has effected the accessibility of the publishing industry for the better. As an author of color I would not chose another time to exist within this space. For ONCE in my life I am seeing books hit the shelves where marginalized characters are existing in books without their pain and trauma being the center focus -- booktok is a major contributor to that. The swell that the industry has received in funds from booktok has allowed for publishers to take risks on more debut authors and diverse stories, allowing marginalized authors to debut in genre fiction!! (I'm so overjoyed!) It's truly my greatest hope that these feats of inclusivity remain. xx
The increased accessibility for minority writers is undoubtedly great, but it's abysmal that it took booktok to achieve it. The publishing industry shouldn't be let off the hook for decades of ignoring minority voices until they essentially got vetoed.
And the increased accessibility does increase diversity, but it also decreased overall quality. I'd say overall it's a worthwhile exchange, but the number of people that insist the general quality hasn't reduced now that pretty much anyone can get published is delusional.
Just in general, anything that gets people to read can't be all bad (and if it provides opportunities for diverse writers and stories that's even better).
That said, i'm inherently wary of putting too much of our culture in the hands of a few private companies, a road we're already too far down IMO. TikTok _looks_ like it's directed by individual users' freely made choices but that's no more true than it is for Facebook, Twitter, RUclips etc. (ultimately they're all driven by the bottom line and theirs depend on the attention economy and its dreaded tool "the algorithm" rather than any concern for culture, books, diversity etc. - they're _always_ going to skew towards whatever gets eyeballs, regardless of how good or bad it is for anyone involved. Right now that may mean encouraging diversity but remember that when it started Twitter _also_ gave oppressed people a voice, yet look how that turned out).
Nicely articulated. 👏🏻
This!!! 👏 Reading is a HOBBY! I think that those who judge others for “not engaging in this hobby correctly” should reflect on what their criticism says about them. I love “deep and poignant” literature too, but as a graduate student working a full time job, I notice that I almost exclusively gravitate toward romance or feel-good novels during the semester because I just want to relax, enjoy, and turn my brain off. People are allowed to enjoy what they enjoy and no one is forcing you to read a Booktok book that you don’t want to read or look down on!
I was the same way when I was working on my PhD. I needed reading that did not require deep analysis. I needed something to help the front burners of my brain be quiet and relaxed. That way the deeper problems could simmer on the back burners until I was ready to tackle them again.
The problem is that most of these romances are full of mysoginy and classism and stereotypes. I am mad that bookshops in my town have changed 50% of books by Colleen Hoover and co. It's not booktoker's fault that the market adapt to them. I am just pissy that they took my sci-fy, biologist, and feminist/socialist books by Colleen Hoover and sh. At the same time I admit that I can simply go to another bookshop. I am just pissy about it bro.
BookTok became popular during the pandemic. And I think people really need to consider that before judging romance readers. People were probably feeling lonely and saw romance books as their outlet.
I don‘t care what other people read. But I would love if my local bookstore hadn’t replaced their entire English language section with a „recommended by TikTok“ section. I understand that this is caused by business decisions, rather than the BookTok community, but as someone who doesn‘t have TikTok that is pretty much the only contact I have with BookTok, and I think it‘s unfortunately the same for other people. It does genuinely make it harder to find books that I like, and that‘s what annoys me, not that someone is „doing a hobby wrong“.
exactly!! sometimes i feel like what i read is "less" important because i chronically read feel-good romance with what i believe is good character progression and storytelling. when in reality, i actively choose not to pursue more worldly and thought-provoking literature because i know while it is so interesting and important, it'll take a lot of my brainpower to fully conceptualise and understand what i'm reading, when what reading is for me, usually, is a medium of relaxation and happy time.
Think this is one of your best videos ever Jack! I really hate the gatekeeping around reading. More readers = better society. Booktok has made both of my kids better readers and helped me relate to them, so count me a fan!
About what Jack is saying at 28:58 , I absolutely rushed through Wuthering Heights hating those characters and realized that Emily Bronte had just done a great job getting me there.
I thought I was the only one! Appreciated the craft, hated the book.
After my many reads of the book, I realized that in the end real love was triumphant, and Heathcliff left no legacy or footprint.
I read it once a year around fall. It was beautifully written and as we age, re-reading books give a different perspective every time. Re-read it last year again, and I think the saying goes in regards to Heathcliffe that "hurt people hurt people". He hurt everyone. But daughter Catherine and Hareton broke the family pain. They suffered but were still optimistic a bit.
I love when creators have nuanced opinions instead of just jumping to conclusions, especially when criticizing something
Audio quality is so much better now with the mic and the room looks INCREDIBLE (this is the first video I’m watching since you put that room together and omg 🙌🏻❤️)
So many of these early comments didn’t watch the video and didn’t realize this is jack defending booktok lolll.
fr people might be deleting some stuff after they see him be like “the fyp is based on content that YOU ENGAGE WITH” so maybe idk follow some different accounts lol
I'm cackling
It is a lot of hate for what? Like Jack said, you curate your feed, engage with what you enjoy. Hating on people for having different book taste than you that you deem is shallow or "bad" is a waste of time. Booktok isn't some homogenous entity, it is a collective of people that like reading and books. Of course there will be varying opinions and books that are more popular than others. Booktok is also mostly women so what those women are reading and the genres they tend to prefer is what will show up more frequently. Society looks down on "women's genres" like romance so why wouldn't the critiques of booktok which is comprised of primarily women mimic the critiques we've been hearing about "women's literature" for hundreds of years. Like what you like and let people like what they like.
I saw the title and knew immediately the exact type of early comments I'd find. Glad they're deleting them in shame
I know! I’m laughing while reading some of them😂
This was beautifully said, Jack. People will always critique others no matter what they read so might as well just read whatever makes us happy.
Agree on that.
I completely agree with the criticisms at the end about misinterpreting themes like in Lolita and The Secret History. Depicting a thing in art and literature does not always equal an endorsement of said thing. Sometimes I think that gets lost in the ~discourse~ sauce.
Yeah, that frustrates me a lot, and particularly about those two books, so I'm very interested that he brought them up.
I get frustrated when people read the Secret History and then criticise it, somehow not realising that that was the whole point. But that's okay, just a little annoying.
But I once had a friend who went on a long rant about how terrible Lolita is and that it is not a good book or well written. At the time, I hadn't read it, so I asked her to tell me a bit about how it was written and the perspectives of the book, and she turned to me and said in disgust, "I haven't read it!"
I remember feeling so hopeless at that moment.
Absolutely and people complain about the unlikeable characters in both books, when thats the point. Since when pedophiles and murderers are likeable anyway? 😂
This reminds me of the Dead Dove: Do not Eat tag on ao3 ( an opensource platform for fanfiction but also hosts original works too). There's a LOT of fucked up themes, characters and stories on that platform. Authors usually tag it with the 'Dead Dove' tag ( alongside the ACTUAL tags that mention themes/tropes/character or relationship dynamics) to indicate that the content of the fic is morally abhorrent and that the author(s) themselves do not actually agree with viewpoints/ actions expressed in the work. Its a great way to warn readers + inform them of authorial intent before they click on the fic. Sometimes I feel like books that explore dark or morally reprehensible themes would benefit immensely if they had a similar system because it would reduce a lot of misinterpretation of said themes.
@@bluehourcore a millllllllllllllllion percent. there's a lot to be talked about with AO3 and how sophisticated algorithms on other platforms have skewed user expectations on content discovery over there - ultimately it comes down to 'don't like, don't read' on that platform and as long as works are tagged correctly that shouldn't be an issue (yet it is lol).
Published books having tags is an interesting idea - I wonder how that might look in execution and whether we trust publishers to disclose everything or if it would be a reviewer- or author-driven type of effort - something to think on for that genre (and others, because content in classics (like Lolita) when reduced to a tag are often indistinguishable from 'dark literature' or other uncomfortable works even when context/execution/theme vary wildly), for sure!
@@klatskyn I haven’t read The Secret History yet but I have read Lolita and it is easily one of the most beautifully written books I’ve ever read. Even in most reviews I see hating on it, they have to admit that the prose is excellent. It’s especially impressive when you consider that English wasn’t Nabokov’s first language.
i agree with 5:21!! it’s really about which booktok side you’re on. i personally love influencers that recommend me a mix of lit fic and classics
as a librarian i've seen and took part of A LOT of discussion about this topic and i'm so happy with this video because i think you're absolutely right, jack! and it's so important to have somebody with the public you have talking about it, thank you!
People love to lean on the “For You” argument but man you can hit not interested on the same subject a thousand times and still get served that shit
Thank you so much for this. I used to be a bookseller and in the early 90s we struggled getting young people into bookshops/ reading. I don’t use TikTok but obviously am watching the equivalent on RUclips and Instagram. Like you say- It has opened my eyes to books, authors and genres that I would have previously dismissed. And me oh my have I discovered great books through this. I no longer work in book selling but know that if I still had my bookshops, booktok etc. would have its own corner. Your defence of it and also wondering if there is an element of misogyny in this all is very valid and food for thought . Thank you so much!
My favorite part is discussing or reading criticism of a book/author. I feel like I have more to work with than just reading the book and feeling emotions.
What’s more poignant than a book that makes you feel things. Why are feelings seen as less than when reading books.
Exceptional articulation. You’ve definitely changed my perspective on some of these issues.
He never fails to get his message across so well, I always learn from these kinds of his videos!
7:53 book recommendations!
A book that critiques society so hard you felt angry yourself
* open water - Caleb Azumah Nelson
* small things like these - Claire Keegan
* black butterflies - Priscilla Morris
* against the loveless world - Susan Abulhawa
* the final revival of Opal & Nev - Dawnie Walton
* home fire - Kamila Shamsie
* human acts - Han Kang
The literature that only made sense to those who cared
* the unbearable lightness of being - Milan Kundera
* piranesi - Susanna Clarke
* the the seven Moons of Maali Almeida - Shehun Karunatilaka
* second place - Rachel Cusk
* by Grand Central Station I sat down and wept - Elizabeth Smart
The poetry that you really had to analyse to make sense of it
* heritage aesthetics - Anthony Anaxagorou
* bad diaspora poems - Momtaza Mehri
* self-portrait as Othello - Jason Allen-Paisant
* bright fear - Mary Jean Chan
You're doing God's work ❤
As a romance reader who also reads a little bit of everything (lit-fic, mystery, memoir, etc.), thank you for the nuance in this video. I read romance for different reasons than poetry, or fantasy, or classics, and I go to each genre with different expectations because each genre has something different to offer. Not only do a lot of "booktok has ruined reading" critiques come off as rather snobby/elitist, but they're often missing a huge point: even if none of the books you see on booktok are for you, there are MILLIONS of books that are. If people are getting joy out of reading, isn't that the most important thing? (Plus, we don't even have to get into how people dismissing the entire romance genre as "trash" has DEEP roots in patriarchy & misogyny - that's a whole other can of worms.) So, in short, thank you. 💕
ABSOLUTELY about that can of worms, i used to feel ashamed when i was in my early to late teens because i've always only been a romance reader. people would ask me what i was reading and i'd feel ashamed about it, but now that i'm in my twenties i realised it really is just rooted in misogyny. it's only "trashy romance" because women read it, and god forbid women have anything nice. no one thinks sports are trashy because it has a majority male fanbase
@@nataliesvt A lot of romance IS trashy, though... How does thinking that most smutty books are trashy mean that someone hates women? Sorry, I’m not connecting that. You may not call sports ‘trashy’, but women have bashed men for liking that hobby (and others) in other ways since forever, so it’s not really a good example to support your worldview of everything just being against women. It’s not like romance is the only genre to be considered trashy or low-brow, either. Nothing wrong with enjoying trashy books every now and then. Just own it. LOL
@@bluecannibaleyesromnace books are typically trashy if they’re mostly erotica, but a lot of them aren’t. I’ve heard people say Mariana Zapata books are trashy because they’re romance books, which means that people are just assuming that all romance is trash because there are genuine relationships in them? I genuinely don’t understand the hate that we get for reading so called “trashy” books when men are praised for having a high body count. I’m actually not a modern feminist, but I can’t deny that there’s still a lot of misogyny there.
@@vashtinayagar1325 I mean, if you think that most romance novels depict ‘genuine relationships’ then idk what to tell you... I think that’s part of why women get judged for reading it. It seems to make them think that the romance they read about is realistic when it’s not. Er0tica/romance novels are basically women’s version of pr0n. Men get shamed for watching that all the time. Rightfully so.
Men don’t get praised for a high body count. I’m not sure why so many women believe that they do, or why they think that women being overly sxual is somehow a good response to men being manwh0res.
@@vashtinayagar1325 I mean, if you think that most romance novels depict genuine relationships then idk what to tell you... I think that’s part of why women get judged for reading it. It seems to make them think that the r0mance they read about is realistic when it’s not. Er0tica/romance novels are basically women’s version of pr0n. Men get sh@med for watching that all the time. And rightfully so.
Men don’t get praised for a high body count. I’m not sure why so many women believe that they do, or why they think that women being overly sxual is somehow a good response to men being manwh0res.
love this! i love your take on booktok as a context and your view of the book industry as an ecosystem, everything is intertwined. also, shallow popular books have always existed (as well as deep popular books), booktok is just a medium in which they are amplified, but that happens also to more random, unique ones. this video is just chef kiss
I'm excited to hear your toughts on this topic. I don't actually think reading can be "ruined"
There actually is some kind of sports equivalent tbh, with football at least in my experience if you haven’t been to see the team you support live then you’re called a ‘plastic’, meaning you’re a ‘fake’ fan. That term is also used for people who switch what teams they support. It just shows how this weird gatekeeping is everywhere, you can’t be a ‘real’ fan if you’ve not seen your team live/gone to a home game or any game at all, you can’t be a ‘real’ fan of a certain band/artist if you can’t name all their albums/songs, and now it’s you can’t be a reader if you like booktok or whatever. It’s very strange really lol
It's also the people who are 'outraged' by the supposed tastelessness of popular trendy books who prob get an ego boost from being into 'niche' or 'highbrow' literature. something cant be niche without mainstream to go along with it.
I am not on booktok but what you said about engaging in your hobby, reading in this case, by watching content about it, is so true and validating. I have chronic health issues and it makes it so that I rarely have the mental energy to read anymore, but I spend so much time on booktube or other social media discussing books I love, searching for artists who make great fanarts and things like that. I discovered great musical or theatrical adaptations of books I knew I'd like but didn't manage to read because of fatigue. This all reading for me.
And everything you said about the publishing industry as an ecosystem was really interesting from my point fo view of a librarian!
YES. YES. YES. I have thought very extensively about our hyperbolic language usage and how it creates a disconnect between us and the actual words that we use every day. It’s awesome to hear you describe it so eloquently.
Super friendly and generous reasoning. My issue is still that the FYP incentivizes the scandalous/dramatic even if there is a niche for thoughtful books. And what’s more you can’t change the medium itself. A vertical screen with short form videos, littered with distractions and the rush to always go on - no matter how thoughtfully one engages that setup it always be less thoughtful than engaging the book in other, more thoughtful ways. Always be surrounded by landlines of distraction & condensed content. I’ve found good books and think there are good creators, but I have no illusions that booktok can go much deeper than surface level
THANK YOU! I’ve never understood the not letting people enjoy what they love because you think what you love is better. One of the reasons booktok is so great is because of how diverse it is, and the various types of different readers on the app. LET PPL ENJOY WHAT THEY LOVE!
Really?😭 I think in terms of plots the books recommended aren't really diverse at all.
@@katgreer6113 there are many subgroups on booktok. Fantasy booktok. Romance booktok. Queer booktok. Etc
I disagree, people can critique as much as they want, and if those critiques impact you so much, I think that's an indication that you are aware or the flaws within whatever youre engaging with and would rather not think about it. Which is fine, but criticizing isnt actually preventing you from enjoying something.
No, I really understand what the first person is saying. My bookshops have been Colleen Hooverified and it is now hard to find interesting books. They also replaced sci-fy by romance... I would have no problem with romance if the stories were ... Great and not stereotypical. I hate stereotypes and these are full of it. I don't even need to read the first chapter to know how it ends. All the characters are stereotypes and tropes. Do not start me how mysoginistic and classist most of these stories are. I am a part time hater, I know.
this is an amazing, transformative take on the whole issue that i haven't seen before. all i've been hearing is the tiktok fast-fashion thing but i think you have a POINT you know. 10/10, completely agree!!!
"You are allowed to enjoy art"
I absolutely agree with this POV - sometimes, I like a book a lot even though it may have had plot holes, or the writing lacked depth, but the story made me feel a certain way. And it's alright to read books like these once in a while, I also like to think of it as enjoying art. Loved this video!
I'm only 4 minutes into the video but I just have to say the editing is magnificent, I'm laughing so hard, thanks Jack
yay thank you!!! i worked so hard on this edit so this means a lot :)
Exactly my feelings! The only youtuber where every video I laugh out loud while watching. The miley cyrus mafia bit had me crying
I agree that as long as you're reading it's not performative however the books that gain the most traction on Tiktok seem very... one note? Books like Love Hypothesis, Spanish Love Deception, literally any hockey romance ever. I think by consequence of these books getting what seems to be the most attention they are unequivocally pushed the most, therefore taking away platforms from books that are just frankly full of more substance like the ones mentioned in this video in response to that woman asking what happened to them? Just today I was in Target and I had such a hard time finding any books that weren't part of this new literary canon involving barely anything but "spice". I wouldn't see this as a problem if stores like Target, Walmart etc etc weren't the place that people actively go to for books as book stores are getting more and more rare as the days go on. This also creates a huge misguide for people who are just beginning to become readers. I agree that we are absolutely giving too much power to Tiktok by saying its "ruined reading" but ultimately it is, at least I think, changing how books are pushed to audiences for the worse. It just bothers me that it took me months to find Almond anywhere but I could get on a bus right now and pick up any Hoover book I want. That is all. I dont have Tiktok but most of these referenced Booktook sections seem to be bloated with books like the cheap romances I've been talking out, that's where my perception of Booktok comes from because it is what is impacting the way I as someone who has nothing to do with Tiktok can find the books I want.
ok but PLEASE make a podcast jack
👀
This was an incredibly insightful video and it reminded me of something one of my professors told me when I was complaining about Hollywood’s lack of new stories. And he basically said it’s your job as the movie watcher to be more active in your search for thought provoking, original films. If the only place I’m looking is Hollywood for movies, especially when I want more diverse stories, it’s unfair for me to say that nothing is new anymore. It’s out there, you just have to look for it. I think as you said at the beginning of the video it’s the same thing with literature
Honestly, this video is overall about BookTok, but I appreciate all the rest you discuss: supporting niche publishers, authors, and stores; appreciating books for a variety of reasons; the importance of popular culture to promote an industry; revivification of older books... and all the rest.
The past few years, I've been consuming a lot of fanfiction rather than just books, and felt bad that my book reading count fell, because that made me feel like I wasn't reading enough. Then I realized I'd read nearly 2,000 fics (of varying lengths, of course) in less than a year, so my gauge of what counts as reading just needs to change. Thanks for helping with that in this video. And thanks for being part of my engagement with reading!
I think this is your best video yet Jack! And I’ve been a fan for years! Such a valid point about The Secret History. I did not see the camp rock cutaway coming 😂
The thing I dislike about Booktok being such a big thing is Kindle books where the only edition available to me has "Tiktok made me buy it!" in the title. That's kind of like stickers on the cover that you can't remove. I so wish they didn't do that. None of the kindle books I bought with that on them were because of Tiktok for me anyway.
That's my bug bear too! Also books with movie covers 🥲
Again, like Jack mentioned - it's purely marketing! People will search for booktok, it links together other books they may like when browsing. I understand it's frustrating though like those stickers haha 😅
But previously it would be stickers from newspapers or magazines or as seen on tv so it’s not anything new it’s just a different medium because that is what’s more current now
My brother doesnt do the whole internet thing, but he works in a bookstore and talks about how awful the booktok trends are and how he can tell when someone is just picking something up because they saw it in a tiktok. Someone who has never been on tiktok before is noticing these things as an outsider. Thats how bad booktok is!
yes! 28:07 I often feel like people are reading two different books! Reading comprehension is low in some of these conversations since folks learned the words "romanticized" and "glamorized." Like no babe, the author is critiquing this, not supporting it.
People criticizing, let’s face it, mostly women for enjoying books with similar tropes has the same energy as people criticizing women for enjoying pumpkin spice lattes. Just let people like what they like. 🙄
Jack’s channel is like a cozy corner of the internet. These are the type of conversations I yearn for when I say I want to have a glass of wine and have thought provoking conversations with others.
Also the editing is class 💅🏽💅🏽💅🏽
I love this video and your point about why classics are shelved together is such a good analogy to why popular “booktok” books are shelved together.
I really like this video because it does emphasise the importance and need of a community when it comes to reading. A lot of readers don't have people around them to talk about their favourite books with but Booktok, Bookstagram, Booktube and podcasts give them an opportunity to interact with people who like the same things as them. Isn't that what social media is all about at the end of the day?
Insta reels or any other platform except tiktok are probably fine. The algo of tiktok is evil.
You dissecting topics such as this one from a warm, multi-layered perspective is always so refreshing and great! Thank you so much for your insights :)
I agree with most of this! A few of my own opinions on this:
1. I don’t have a problem with tropes inherently or with putting books in certain categories, but I do have a problem with the way they tend to be used for marketing. It’s way easier to market a book by stapling a list of tropes to the cover- “enemies to lovers” “grumpy/sunshine” ect.- and I’ve definitely read books where it felt like a really interesting premise was simplified to fit a certain trope, or I felt like the book leaned waaaay too much into the trope at the expense of plot or character development. I worry that this trend is going to make it more difficult for books that don’t easily fit any categories to be published, that it’s reductive for books that *can* fit a specific category but that’s not really the point, ect. Categorization can be really helpful, and tropes are obviously necessary as storytelling tools, but I don’t love how it’s used as a marketing strategy. The enemy is not booktok, it’s ✨capitalism!✨
2. Some people. Just some! Not most! Some people simply do not know how to behave. It is *very easy* to forget that the things you do and say and promote online have actual real life consequences. Every time there’s new booktok drama, I can’t help but think that this simply would not be a problem if anyone involved had literally any other hobbies. Go outside. Booktok is great! Booktok is wonderful! But it suffers the same problem as any online space- namely, *being online constantly all the time is not good for you*, and it is extremely easy to forget that the people youre interacting with are actual real people with lives and boundaries. Nothing quite feels real online- there’s a degree of separation that makes it much easier to do and say things you would NEVER do or say irl. It goes back to what Jack said about how people can be really mean. When you spend all of your time consuming media, either reading or on TikTok or whatever, nothing feels real anymore and it’s easy to forget that your actions have consequences. I think this is more a problem with the platform itself than the users- TikTok is literally designed to be addictive- but I do think it encourages a certain level of distance from reality that isn’t super healthy.
Gonna hope that what I’m saying in both these points is clear, I simply could not be bothered to edit and proofread this RUclips comment. But I think there are a lot of good points here! Booktok is an incredibly valuable resource and a really great community, I just think capitalism loves to ruin everything good in the world and also some people need to learn how to behave online.
I completely agree with your first point. I often worry about this too.
I love a trope before they were being publicised as a said trope. Tropes have always been around though, and the marketing allows people to find similar books. Yes people may write to the trope but that is nothing new
the part where jack pointed out how reading or booktok - having more female audience is - not taken seriously really got me thinking!
This is so refreshing. You're able to articulate what I believe so many of us think/feel in this community so well.
I think I've commented this on every video I could find but jack we need and Emma Watson video. She seems like a person who genuinely cares about books and the way they impact people. Also the fact that she used to leave books in public places for people to read is so amazing
YESSS!!!!
Yess!! And Hozier too. By listening to his songs I'm 100% sure that the guy must be reading great books
Is she okay? I haven’t heard about her in a long time.
@@JamesLawner she is ok, recently she said that would only act in things she believes in, not every movie they offer to her... aka: now that i have money and am respected, i will just do what is good and keeps my name clean
@@JamesLawner
She's fine she went back to university for a while and she started a company with her brother.
This was such a good video, amazing take on everything! Really glad we found your channel 🥰🫶🏼
I struggle lately a lot with depression and mental illnesses and I love reading. Your videos always cheer me up, because you are always so happy and enthusiastic. Thank you for everything you make and keep going!!
“Digitally dexterous” I love that.
This was such a great video cause before watching this video I too viewed booktok as like the worst thing to happen to reading but you have completely changed my perspective just once again proving why you're my favourite youtuber.
as a former high school teacher, when my students told me they hated reading, i would always say 'you just haven't found the right book yet'. (30:49)
They definitely have “performative fans” in sports. What other people would call fair weather fans that only pop up when the team is winning but have no history following the team or familiarity with the players. But I get your point because a woman is also more likely to be called this too if they had sudden interest in sports versus a man, but it does still happen
yes it does still happen but is not as common term or people have no idea about it, meanwhile in terms of female dominant hobbies in a lot of people views everything women do is performative...there is a huge bias there
1:56 I recently had to analyze the Trial of Anne Hutchinson and her bookclub because yes, they banished Hutchinson family for her being too political in her religious arguments. There was no such thing as religious tolerance. But indeed, she was one of the first women to make a Book Club
Situating booktok/tube/other means of engaging with reading as beneficial facets of reading as a hobby is such a new and revolutionary perspective to me! Thank you so much that's truly validating💚
I still love booktok, but the things I hate about it are 1. cancel culture 2. elitism (people literally think they’re so much better for reading certain authors books or abstaining from certain books) 3. developing thoughts on books before reading them (sometimes it takes out the joy of just simply enjoying it myself)
"Just because something's cliche doesn't mean that it's not something that's awesome. The worst kind of person is someone who makes someone feel bad, dumb or stupid for.. being excited about something." - Taylor Swift
You made such good points, Jack!
Guys get called out for pretending to be into sports when they aren't really. Many are just saying they're fans because it is easy to say and it's a guy thing to say so might as well. People pretend to be into things for social acceptance or popularity and that is what that comment is addressing. It isn't a gender thing. Are people actually reading the books? Especially those who don't do this for a living but make book haul videos of 50 books or more at a time? When everything becomes an esthetic, it does beg to ask what are we doing and why are we doing it? Is it better to read smut than not read at all? What do we get from booktok other then recommendations? These are valid questions.
Honestly, the harsh language of those with book opinions dissimilar to mine is the reason why my book reviews on tiktok are so generic and brief. I give one sentence about the book, one sentence about how I felt reading it and a 1-5 star rating. I don't even show my face or use my voice. I wish to have more courage so I can be more open and conversational about books I've read and how I feel but I worry others will ruin my experience.
I first started reading again bc of BookTok, but it quickly took me out after I was over the shallow books it was pushing to me. It is after I’ve left the BookTok community, after I allowed myself to choose books that I’d genuinely enjoy, instead of just following trends, that I’ve started reading once again and it no longer feels like a chore.
oh I loved this take! as someone who rediscovered their love for reading as an adult through booktok, seeing this new trending take that booktok has ruined reading was really upsetting. at this point I’ve seen so many different corners of booktok (literary fiction, horror, nonfiction, romance, etc.) and seeing people claim that only the same 5 books get recommended is very frustrating. of course booktok isn’t a perfect space, and I agree with your criticisms! the problem is that some people see these issues and create a catastrophe out of a hiccup.
I'm so glad everyone is talking about this topic for a book community this is so important topic to address
I just love booktok, it is what got me into reading in the first place and I’ll be forever grateful for that
Everything about this was so well done. You have so calmly and kindly dismantled an array of negative comments and click-bait articles while also acknowledging pitfalls and room for improvement. There are lots of points in this video I will be thinking about for a long time. Just know that if you ever made a podcast I would listen all the time!
i love how politely pissed off you are about it 😂 and thank you for all the recs!
I loved how you used logical reasoning and actually broke every topic down, and gave your opinion in a calm and composed manner while backing your opinions with facts. It was refreshing and cozy to listen to you and I really enjoyed it. Please make more videos like this :))
As someone who tends to be a bit judgmental and critical of Bookstagram and BookTok, I agree with your core points and try not to contribute to the divisive dialog (even though I still think most readers are too exclusive with their genres).
I think the FYP point is a bit of an idealistic view of how the algorithm is /supposed/ to work when the reality is, there's only so much curation that can be done. Instagram is well-aware I'm a reader and I follow a great deal of diverse creators. But as far as the algorithm goes? There's no nuance. Since I'm a reader, it will never not suggest content related to ACOTAR, Colleen Hoover, SJM and spicy books. How about nonfiction? Oh, then I must love Atomic Habits and /only/ Atomic Habits.
It is true there are content creators out there for everyone but I would argue, the algorithm doesn't appear to work in their favor. And if you're chronically online, that can sometimes make these book communities feel like boring echo-chambers.
the atomic habits is so real! nonfiction = self-help on instagram, it's the exact same situation and there's no way out of it since bot accounts seeking maximum engagement outnumber people so significantly while browsing. instagram comments are criticized for being evil and they are, but that feels like a direct result of what it pushes on the explore page and their use of autoplay video. i have been actively, obsessively trying to like and dismiss things for 5+ years to try and fine tune all the social media i use, the difference it makes is minimal. the idea that you could manipulate recommendations down to the genre of books is a fantasy, you can basically narrow it down to a few subcultures (but never just one. i'd love an option to like, just see cats, but it's always going to push more diversified recommendations than that, so again the idea you could filter out parts of a culture you are interested in is just laughable) the only way out of it is to not be on the app, otherwise it's gonna autoplay something (increasingly, intentionally) stupid to make you mad. the best fix to this was a tumblr blacklist back in the day! great for when it's 2014 and you love fall out boy but hate twenty one pilots, many such cases!
This. Social media algorithms don't just conform to your engagement habits but also factor in age, gender, what you have Googled, location, etc. It can be frustrating to be put into the romantasy "bubble" even if you don't like it just because you are a 20+ woman. So in some ways just engaging with BookTok alone and not also with your local library, bookstore, etc will give you a not very diverse view of what's available. BookTok CAN be homogenizing unless you make a real effort...but why do that when TikTok is designed to just keep you scrolling as long as possible?
I like your points.
If you’re looking for a solid nonfiction book, I just read Malcolm Gladwell’s “Outliers” and it knocked my socks off. Such a thought-provoking read :)
Absolutely loved this video and the nuance you bring to the entire booktok conversation, while also focusing on the (mostly good) impact booktok has on the publishing industry. It's really interesting to watch this conversation as someone who isn't active on TikTok. I used to be, but realised I spent way too much time mindlessly scrolling, so have removed the app ever since. In a way, I do feel like I miss out on community, recommendations and interesting conversations about the books I love. Especially because I find it difficult to find people who love reading literary fiction, as it is more of a niche still.
Im just happy more and more people have fallen in love with reading again. Plus I do adore how much love the libraries have been getting lately, they are having a surge in popularity as well, and it is great for so many reasons.
I used to judge people for what they read but there’s a reason I grew out of it by the time I reached adulthood.
Reading is awesome. It exercises your brain, reading in bed is a healthier alternative to scrolling that eases you into a better sleep, it gets you through long queues and bus rides, it’s an excellent conversation topic, it connects people, cultivates creativity AND books look phenomenal in any room.
How can I ever be angry with books.
Also The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo is SO good, it deserves every single penny it made thanks to booktok girlies.
Great points, totally agree and enjoyed this discussion. I think that one reason people feel threatened by BookTok that's quite small and niche is that some people have a very personal connection to reading, have used it as serious therapy for understanding their own trauma and those people, often introverted and misunderstood have had an armor through books... and it ALSO created a kind of outward sign to others of who they were. Now all readers are in some diluted soup, and where they once felt seen they feel even more misunderstood. I never see people talk about that, but I do think it exists. I think that loss of identity that social media, generally, has facilitated has put a bad taste in people's mouths and even been a hurtful side effect.
I just want to see publishing's keep on thriving! And I want everyone to keep enjoying books.
I very much enjoyed listening to you break down and reflecting on booktok. I have seen it come up more and more about what a reader “should be” and what books are “good”. The idea of an ecosystem in publishing , enjoying a hobby in different ways, being able to enjoy different genres, having conversations around morality and themes… got me thinking and just enjoyed it. Thank you for creating and sharing your perspective 😊
Do you know that friend who never judges you in your taste of things? That would be Jack :)