Ikr???? It's almost like the thing that's down in a fictional character's pants should not justify lazy, illogical, plothole-riddled writing of their personality and interactions with other characters
The best way I think this can be put is that people don't hate strong female characters. They hate "strong female characters™". Big entertainment studios have made it into an absolutely horrible trope.
@@seabass819I end up reading a lot of Japanese light novels whose characters are arguably extreme examples of the Mary Sue trope. Having a super cool main character isn't so bad sometimes. Same with Gary Stu characters. Sometimes having an MC who is just a badass is fine. In my youth I read a lot of fanfiction that does the same. You have his main character who's obviously a self insert character and she just pops out of the metaphorical womb with enough amazing abilities to stand toe-to-toe with your level 99 RPG characters after they beat the final boss. The "strong female character" trope is arguably a lot more toxic because rather than just being a self insert hero fantasy, it's got this undercurrent of envy and resentment. Instead of just having the coolest character, they also have to be constantly making jabs at everything that isn't the "strong female character". The original Mary Sue was perfect, and loved by everyone, and could do anything. I suspect that story didn't then have to kneecap the original cast as incompetent losers who were just holding Mary Sue back and the moral of her story was that she needs to ignore those losers since they're just jealous and they're holding her back.
Well, the thing is, if the characters themselves were just bland, then it wouldn’t be as bad as it is now. It’s when companies make the male characters look incompetent to make the “strong female protagonist” look badass that it gets really problematic.
For a character to be strong, they also need to show them being weak. They won't show a strong independent woman being weak, because it's purpose is to show a strong independent woman. Now they will do that to male character because that is the goal to make them look weak, case and point, the new superman animated series. The studios are doing it on purpose
We have grown up with tons of strong female characters in fiction. Samus Aran, Sarah Connor, Ellen Ripley, Sailor Moon, Chun-li, just to name a few of the popular ones, and virtually no one complained.
I can't call Sailor Moon strong. Most episodes she just get scared and runs away for half an episode only to then OHKO the enemy in a single attack at the end. it's reasonable for the first episode, but it gets really annoying after a while. Perhaps you are referring to other girls in her team though? Card Captor Sakura was a better example if you wanted to name an anime for girls that was on tv at the same time (in my country the two shows shared the same time slot but on different ways of the week).
@@silverhawkscape2677 that is not true. Sexists didn't magically appear after someone made a badly written character, they've always been there but simply weren't given the opportunity to complain on that big of a scale, secluded to shitty forums and such. Now with the reach of the internet and with the fumble that big budget movies have become, they've simply gotten way more space to perpetually scream into the void
@jen-jen5470 True but they are still a sliver of a fraction of the people watching, regardless of how loud and far they scream. Once we can get everyone to settle into the reality of that we can solve some problems for once, instead of pretending like these people represent even 1% of people giving criticism. I mean think about it this way too, even just among sexist, some are so sexist they are not even going to watch or engage with these mediums because of how they think, so it's no exaggeration that they hardly make up anyone discussing the cinematic of the last generation if not longer.
@@joshbull623 can I ask you for more precise data on that "less than 1%" part? As it greatly depends on where you are from and what culture you interact with. There are places where sexism is a less obvious issue, there are those where it's so obvious you will both figuratively and literally get beat over the head with it. In something like the US sexism is mostly not allowed legally, but it doesn't mean people magically just stopped being sexist culturally. It's frowned upon in most places but the degree also depends on where one lives. So the US clowns, (especially post halo and cod ones who complain the loudest and frequent the internet as right now those topics include their age demographic) flee to their backwards ass forums and youtube videos to do said complaining. They make up a part of the population that could be interpreted as relatively small, but that "relatively small" gets greatly inflated cuz the country is so large, which in turn makes up a sizeable part of complaints and screaming on the web cuz the internet is really the only place where they can do so. Now add people from "traditionalist" countries who also frequent those same places and here you go In conclusion: statistics is bs and I hate it cuz one can screw the numbers to appeal to their own idea of the world.
Man I kinda feel like the writers who wrote she-hulk and Peter pan and Wendy are like those people who think wearing glasses make them smarter or something
For what i heard, actually the cómic for She hulk had certain themes like lack of self confidence and identity and flaws in a carismatic character, the writters could have easly adapted it, but no, why put people to adapt a comic when they aren't interested in them.
Animated mulan: I might not be as physically strong as the trained men around me so I'll work hard and figure out how to overcome this shortcoming Live action mulan: I was born with superpowers and immediately superior to those around me Guess which one is more enjoyable
That scene where she literally use Discipline and Strength to climb the pole and getting the arrow so she gets to stay is brilliant At the time no one knew she was a woman, They just knew she was weak and wouldn't survive
@@DivusMagus Exactly She proved herself twice and earned the respect for herself twice. She was so resourceful and creative it felt genius She never really overpowered her enemies mostly just outsmarted them. It sucks because my family were searching if we got the right movie
Animated Mulan: Total failure during training to the point she's sent home, only managing to earn her place with cleverness and hard work. Live action Mulan: So goddamn amazing that the general offers to let her marry his daughter on day one.
The problem with these kinds of characters is that they don't grow or change with the world around them, it's that the world needs to change _for them_
This is a message I hate that I keep hearing being pushed towards girls and women today. Some modern pop song even has the a line to this exact effect. Sure, you shouldn't try being something you're not to please people that don't even like you, but if you're a toxic douche-nozzle the world around you shouldn't have to just accept your destructive behavior. Our ability to adapt is why we've been able to survive for so long and build such great things. If we all lived by this message, we'd still be living in mud huts, killing any and every thing that stood in our way until there was nothing left to eat and entire ecosystems were destroyed out of spite.
Even if a character is perfect and doesn't struggle that much, it doesn't make a character bad. What would make this character insufferable, would be the character being smug about it and rubbing under everyones noses how much better they are. If a perfect character is at least humble (not too humble ofc) and respects people around them even though the character is much better than everyone around them, I would bet, that most people would like the character anyways.
Superman is a classic example of this fact. He is undoubtedly the most powerful superhero ever created, but it's not his godly powers that ultimately define him, which is a flaw many of the "Strong Female Characters" have. They allow their "Empowerment" and "Struggles as a women" to define their entire sense of identity. Which ultimately makes them shallow in both character development and positive impact with audiences. Superman on the other hand, it's not just his power that makes him a great hero (Though it most certainly helps) It's his selflessness, his kindness, his uncompromising sense of right and wrong, his unwavering loyalty to his friends and family, his respect and love for all life regardless if it comes from Earth, Outer Space or a parallel universe. All these qualities and more are the reasons he's a timeless character and one of the best examples of what it means to be a hero. Because all these positive qualities are things we can all aspire to. We don't need god-like power to make a positive difference in the world. We just need to find the courage to stand up for what's right. Superman taught me that.
The worst thing is that western journalists and writers don't even understand anime characters and what makes them good. I once had the misfortune of having been shown an article from Kotaku (ew) which praised a female character from an anime for all the wrong reasons, putting her flaws on a pedestal and implying that these negative character traits are what makes her better than the other members of the cast or other girls in that franchise... even though these exact same traits are the ones the character has to work on and learn to overcome and basically do a 180° on to become a more complete person. The article completely got her backwards. (btw. the article was about Ruki from Digimon Tamers and it praised her being ruthless, mistrustful and ambitious because she "wanted to win", even when one of her biggest moments of growth is to realize that there is nothing to win because she isn't actually playing a game and Digimon are actually real living beings.)
@@provis345p9 I mean, that's all forms of media. Film, videogames, books. Majority of content produced are far from what most people would consider "good".
Even Mary Sues and Gary Stues can be likable if they're at least funny or even decent human beings, but a lot of these strong female protagonists are just straight up evil or full of hate and discontent, not to mention smug (and not in a good way).
What about the girl ligit named Mary Sue from Girls und Panzer Das Finale, that is her actual name but she is a very likable character when you get to know her more.
In regards to goblin slayer, he is actually very capable even beyond just goblins considering all the things he actually fought, the thing about him is that he is a great representation of sacrifice, he threw away soo much to be what he is, every moment he spends not fighting goblins in mostly spent in preparation for future battles, he is always ready for battle hence why he never takes of his armor except when servicing it with the blacksmith, like bruh he shows up with it in his sleep to. There is no grand adventure for him, just day in and day out of what is basically a one man crusade, he only slowly opens up more when he spends more time with his party members' company, slowly becoming more human.
@@purestdark8819 no... the "batman of anime" is.... well, in terms of a character, then yes, you're right, but... the real "anime batman" series is.... The Big O ( examples: ruclips.net/video/s7_Od9CmTu0/видео.html and ruclips.net/video/YUIJ-GUZ1dY/видео.html and ruclips.net/video/JfO17YXmVkM/видео.html ) it's literally japanese (anime) batman (which means it got to also have mecha in it), laughs
I must admit, a lot of times I see people online talking bad about Goblin Slayer, calling it a bad anime/manga. So it warms my heart to see someone talking positively about my all time favourite anime and manga. And yeah, while goblin slaying is a big part of it, I feel like a majority of the anime is about him and his relationships to people, be it Cowgirl, his party, Guild girl or the other adventurers. As you said, its about him slowly learning to be human again. The second season has an episode that shows that well, where he goes to the pub for drinks with Spearman and Heavy Swordsman. While they are both in normal clothes, he is still in armour, and it is clear that just going out for drinks with friends is something he wouldn't normally ever do.
Holy crap talk about a strong female lead, Slayers was my first anime at 4 years old and sits at the pinnacle of a well written group. Lena is flawed as hell; greedy, loud, arrogant and short tempered to name a few but she is incredibly powerful to the detriment of herself more often then not and at the end of the day when sitting in an inn knowing that the newly reborn demon lord is gaining power and she and her two companions could just run away but instead go back to fight to what is absolutely going to be their deaths is peak hero journey and that's only one of the characters.
Honestly the problem is they treat it like a promotional point, rather than a natural character trait. You see the same with a lot of virtue signaling media and their inclusion of LGBTQ characters as well. It's almost reminiscent of blacksploitation filmmaking back in the day, in some ways. Hollywood simply sees it as an untapped audience, and is clumsily trying to appeal to them. Compare that instead to moving like, say, Alien, where the script specifically had gender neutral names, and characters developed naturally, not as a marketing gimmick.
"Being yourself" has resulted in the most self centered generation in like 100 years. Something I learned is that while there is something called "Talent" there will always be a 'wall' for talent. Hard work will ALWAYS surpass uncultivated talent. You won't be enough, whether that is right now, or if that's that one person alone can't complete the objective. You WILL fail, it's what you do after failure that defines you.
Being yourself is the starting point of being healthy. You become great by trying to become better than yourself. Never expected to hear such deep words from Nux of all people. Good job!
the thing I always wondered about children falling from their prams in peter pan is, did these nannies just keep going and didn't bother to stop and pick the kid up? that's why they were hired.
It funny how Disney and Hollywood is quick to complain about overpowered male character, so there answer is "Let's just to the same thing to woman and some how people will like them". Little Suprise when it doesn't work 😤
I said this once, “Flipping the oppressive roles isn’t equality, it’s a poorly disguised revenge fantasy. Real equality is forged by having an even split in all decision making.”
A quality example of a bad character was left out by neglecting to mention Teela from the recent Masters of the Universe: Revelations. There was a scene against a villain, Scareglow, that uses your greatest fear against you and her greatest fear was literally that she was too awesome and she was holding herself back. That was a thing that they wrote and showrunner Kevin Smith (yes, _that_ Kevin Smith of Clerks/Mallrats/Jay & Silent Bob fame) approved.
These characters a written this way on purpose. The idea is that they are stong, independent and capable on their own. This is what makes them so unrelatable. We all need friends, family, teachers and allys. That is what makes us human.
Absolutely! Just thinking on Goblin Slayer more, 3 arcs in the first season does that. The raid on the goblins near the elven boarder highlights the skills of his new team, and the ass pull to beat the orge required the team buying time without him. Water Town featured everybody having needed skills and the humans being at disadvantage to their peers. But constant pressure invading the goblins turf got them running. Season 1 conclusion, the farm raid, he did what was necessary and asked for support. It took convincing and strategy, but they got the raid and lost only a few lives.
"You are sufficient" can be a good message, but you have to build around that in the first place. The character in question would have to start his/her journey believe they are not actually sufficient for the task at hand for whatever kind of insecurity or inferiority you wish to have for them. Then, over the course of the story, they find important moments of self-actualization in small yet key moments; they can stand up to the belittlers in other squads/classrooms; they can use that power or special technique they've been trained in but haven't been able to pull off; they can bridge the gap between their fellow mates where they thought it was impossible for personal reasons. At the end of the story, all of these little moments coalesce into the realization that they are that good/powerful and it become their moment to be the epic character we knew they could be all along. The problem with most of these shows is that their attempts to make those "little moments"--if they even try at all--turn out to be VERY superficial or simplistic, and it undermines the entire premise.
I really liked your Goblin Slayer example. You are right. The other characters are all really cool and useful and powerful in their own right. It is the situation that makes them unprepared and inexperienced enough to fail without the Goblin Slayer's help. However they are all instrumental in conquering the goblins even with the Slayer's help. The lizard man's brute strength and ability to summon skeleton lizards is key in several scenes from the show. The Dwarf's sleep spells and rock magic takes out huge crowds of goblins and even an entire ship of them.. plus he saves the elf's life, and kills a lot of them solo. The elf cuts down their numbers almost by half with her peerless archery and even though she's kind of annoying, her skill cannot be denied. Even using their own shitty arrows against them. And without the priestess, a lot of them definitely would have died. I also love how they used her barrier magic for so much more than it's intended purpose. Using it to immobilize goblins, to trap them in a fire, to shield everyone from arrows (well that is what it is meant for), and to block their escape. I also really like how the elf's naivety about the goblins slowly gets turned from "oh these are not a threat to worry about" to "We must kill all of these bastards". She basically goes from clueless to being just like the Goblin Slayer himself, after that one scene where they rescued an elf from the goblins. That transformation of hers after experiencing the real world for the first time is amazing. This goes along with the main point of the video.. she is already overpowered, but she is still weak due to inexperience and naivety. It takes a lot of struggle for her to get over her overconfidence and sheltered view of the world, but it was very interesting to see that growth in the show. The priestess went from a naïve and helpless little cupcake literally pissing herself in fear against a single goblin, to being a hardened adventurer that was instrumental in destroying the goblin Lord. And she EARNED that the hard way. It's kind of ironic that a show that people shit on for "being absolutely detrimental to women" actually has better female characters and more empowering growth for them than the shows that are supposedly woke.
The writer of goblin slayer knows his shit. Very few write knows how to write side character at all. Character progression betweens goblins becoming more human and priestess becoming more competent adventure is also one of it's strong point.
@LadyPompax Yeah, it's tragic that Krillin is literally the strongest human on Earth, but he still is a joke to the rest of the cast because he's only human. Meanwhile they are fighting god's of destruction and entities that can destroy entire universes. Making him essentially useless.
I dont mind a completely op character from the start if its done in a very specific way. Anime does a good job with this. If you can break a city with a single punch it feels good to see said character punch a guy through a wall for assaulting an innocent person.
When done right you can get an amazing moment where the villian is about to win and then the hero shows up and you go "Oh, now we are safe" like a few superman comics and that one sea king arch in One punch man.
James Bond always comes to mind on this topic. He was an OP character from the start but his background justified his overpowerness to where the audience didn't have to suspend disbelief.
Cid Kagenous is an example of how you can make an op as hell bur likeable character we know he's going to win, but he's going to do it in the most over the top ridiculous ridiculous way imaginable and we fucking love it for that.
@Ms666slayer that's why I love anime tbh. I feel it's ok to have an op character as long as you can show off why that character is op. You just can't do that in live action unless you plan to sink 500m into a movie. Even then it's so much cgi it might as well be animated for a fraction of the price
Luke Skywalker in the original Star Wars wasn’t strong at first, but through character development and training through 3 movies he became really strong. Rey came in and was good at everything and was a super boring character.
Exactly. Him using the force in destroying the Death Star was to show his Potential. Now, They ruined it. Leaked Drafts were supposed to show Luke Meditating with Boulders Floating around.
Rey would have been a great character if they actually turned her to the dark side and she became the villain "Oh I can't do this thing? It's too hard? Fing watch me" is a scary trait for a villain. For a hero, it's boring. For a villain, it's great. But nobody had the courage to do that, even when the entire movie teased that.
@TheHauntedKiwi and Ben Solo blind by how his family are heros and attempts to do the same thing. Inprise by Anakin, work as double agent, doing evil thing so he can work his way through frist order to assassin Snoke, but wonders if end justify the means
Uh… he is the son of the chosen one and is super gifted in the force and a natural pilot. Blowing up the Death Star takes him no effort. Also he doesn’t shed a tear over his family’s death. Dude is not a well written character.
@@mr.stuffdoer8483 No he is. Far better than Rey. Quit trying to gaslight Star Wars fans that Luke is not a well written Character. Your Insidious methods of gaslighting is sick.
10:54 Here's another example: Shinobu from Demon Slayer. Shinobu's lack of physical strength is called out in her introduction. She's not physically strong enough to cut the heads off demons. But that doesn't make her any less lethal because she uses poisons in her fighting style. Maybe she can't behead a Demon but she can make them literally melt into goop as they scream for help that will never come. Shinobu has an entirely unique fighting style and an entirely unique sword and calls to attention that, yes, there are ways of killing demons that don't require you to have super strength.
"The Expanse" is a good example of a series that has strong female characters yet it never felt preachy and the characters were treated like real people with real flaws by the writers.
The perfect example of this is the 13th doctor entire run, which is an awfully written random assortment of events happening to an awfully written random assortment of characters, with no development or logic whatsoever. Then you criticize it and twitter rains down on you as if 'not liking a show for perfectly understandable reasons' is a crime you should be put on a list for
Did no one ever criticize during the development of these strong women movies? It feels like the movie industry is full of bosses that don't like anyone disagreeing with them. Do these bosses not have any real strong women in their lives? As in women who inspire them. Not necessarily for being physically strong but for being strong as a person. For me, the strongest woman I've ever known was my grandma. Even with her gone she still inspires me every day. Love you, grandma. ❤
Honestly, I keep going back to animation because it often trumps live action in terms of writing female characters. The Owl House was a phenomal show, from Disney, that had a female lead who struck the perfect balance to make a strong female character that wasn't afraid to do the right thing despite the pressures of her situation.
My thoughts exactly, I wish people can have this discussion without accusing others of being misogynistic and/or jackasses using the discourse as an excuse to be misogynistic… but hay that’s the internet for ya 😅
The way I look a modern writing the hero's journey starts at the top of the mountain rather than at the bottom and when you start at the top there is only one way you can go.
As a woman, and feminist. Yes i hate She-Hulk and i agree on all of this. Its not sexist, it just a coincidence recent years story and writing just bland and flat. The protag being a female or male has no relevance. It just bad writing
I hate the shift in character's mindset in modern stories from "doing something for the sake of others, even if it seems tough" to "fvck everyone else, all I need is my wellbeing and how I feel".
So weird how only the poorly written characters are subject to s3xism. And never the well written ones. Or MAYBE it's not about s3xism, but the poor writing... NAH.
It's just tribalism for the sake of drama and controversy. Humanity can't live without it. It's as close as you can get to an infinite loop and then people get tired of it and they can't opt out cause they fell too deep into this infinity.
15:52 I got a character request for this series; Mereoleona from Black Clover. She's the definition of OP done right and a well written female character (imo).
Here's a fun fact about Mulan live action adaptation. Their are actually 2 of them, the second one is called "Mulan rise of a warrior" this one also take some liberties wait the source meterial, but it's a 1000 times better disney version. Just the way this movie present Mulan as this girl who is fighting in the war for (if i remember correctly) 16 years. She is tired, coverd in dirt and have Messy hair........ On the the other hand disney is doing a loreal ad with Mulan in their version.
The idea that you are Sufficient is enough, is a important story. but the fact that you are not sufficient for Everything is JUST as important. we need more stories like samwise where he as a simple farmer is enough to do his part, it may not be the MOST important one, but without him all would have been lost.
To follow up on that Goblin Slayer Point, remember when Goblin Slayer got his ass kicked because he wasn't fighting a Goblin and only won because of a one-time use trump card? Or better yet, him having shotty equipment that is just barely enough to get by because it's enough to kill goblins? Honestly, love how Goblin Slayer portrays their characters. The best part about Goblin Slayer though, is how he rubs off on the party and they on him. They help reach other grow rather than use one to step over the other.
The fact that they made She-Hulk not go on rampages just because she's a woman that deals with people's bs all the time pissed me off so much. In the comics she didn't go on rampages because just like a bunch of other characters that can turn into Hulk like forms she doesn't have serious mental issues like Bruce.
One issue I've seen get conflated with this is that, often, when a critic wants to say "People hate media-thing-x because misoginy", they unfortunately don't have to look that hard on the internet to find examples proving their point. There are far too many "Get woke, go broke" channels that, when criticizing a film, often try to make the arguement that said film is bad because it's part of an ideological trend, while spending a comparatively little amount of time actually discussing the problems unique to the media in question. Often, they'll use intentionally inflammatory terms like "M-she-U" or "Wokeness" in their thumbnails or opening statements of their videos, which in turn provides fodder for the average Hollywood critic to point a finger at and say: "See! I told you the haters were all sexist!". I'm unfamiliar with the channel in question, but the video that nux is reviewing seems to be intentionally avoiding these terms, instead actually focusing on the individual flaws that hold back the story. I'd hesitate to call the narrator "nuanced", because it really shouldn't require any nuance to discuss annoying trends in modern films without descending into culture war talking points, but unfortunately that's where a lot of media criticism on the internet is at at this point.
You have a good point. But then when you remember that the progressive ideas that are meant to be more enlightening than the regressive ones aren't being understood or conveyed well by the writers really puts into question about how progressive those ideas really are. Btw, I'm a regular viewer of those channels you mentioned and even I realised that those buzzwords sell like pancakes to a crowd of disappointed (largely male) loyal fans who wanted to see greatness unfold. It's more a sign of frustration than hate. Also, It's so easy to lump all these politics into convenient sides when the progressive people DONT SPEAK UP. They really don't voice their concerns enough. They are complacent about it as long as the "progressive side" "wins".
This is something I've seen far too often with videos talking about comics today. RUclips is drowning in videos talking about how "comics are too WOKE" and pointing to two very specific characters that don't even exist as proof. Yes, comics do have their problems that need to be addressed, such as nonsensical marketing strategies (how do you expect to get new readers when you advertise almost exclusively inside comic books?), rising prices, and an over-reliance on only a handful of characters (see: DC's Batman addiction), but being "too woke" is not one of them. Sure, they'll kind of try to push diversity here and there and some writers do write characters poorly, just like in any other medium, but that's not what's "killing comics." Hell, comics aren't even dying! Sales keep going up, so some of this has to be working to some degree.
I think the biggest example I like to use is Ashoka from Star Wars. People say that Star Wars fans are just sexist for not liking Rey and yet Ashoka has been a fan favorite for years. Not to mention Asajj or Hera or Sebine or _freaking Princess Leia_. Honestly, I'd be surprised if the people accusing others of sexism have even heard of those characters themselves.
The best example of this has got to be Prey! Amber Midthunder did so good in a movie. Considering it came from a franchise that started off with really muscular men with big ass guns but stuck to the formula of using your brains and surroundings instesd of raw strength to defeat the pred.
If I had the skill to, I would do a story about a super op woman that is perfect all the time and is on a mission to defeat the demon lord. But she needs a party of heros to help her, a master tracker to help lead the way around the front lines of the evil armies, a master thief to spot traps, undo locks, and avoid ambushes, a healer to tend to the groups wounds, and a skilled melee specialist that can take on entire groups of enemies by themselves. And all through the story she one up each and every one of them until they all have quit being an adventurer because what's the point when you have "Miss perfect" to save the day. And at the end of the story it's revealed that she is actually the demon lord who's just tormenting adventurers to reduce how many there are in the world that could actually pose a threat to her.
I've been working on my own writing skills buy writing porn of all things. But a story I've always wanted to write is about a young princess. She lives in a world that was nearly destroyed in a war between the three gods of the world. Early on she's kidnapped by a half demon witch and her two henchmen/friends. The princess ends up freeing herself with the help of a demon sword with very strong fire magic. But when she gets back, her father the king banishes her because the sword is slowly turning her into a demon. So her journey begins to find a way to stop the curse, if she can.
The "strong woman" characters we see today are basically exactly what One Punch Man os parodying but without the self awareness. The perfect warriors with no weaknesses and is good at their job with minimum struggle. And yet, even OPM has weaknesses as he's not exactly the smartest and is also usually late to the fight. He also still strives to be better. So the parody character is still a better character than the current day Stronk Woman.
7:38 wrong. I factually remember that everyone loved finn and everyone agreed that the trilogy would have been better if he was the main character, and ended up becoming a jedi. finally, a stormtrooper to jedi story. but no. they left that as a side plot only mentioned like, twice. he was the best written character, and should have been the main.
There is one word for me that completely negates the whole "you h8 stronk whaman" nonsense; Buffy. Now there are many of other examples, but this one is mine.
The staggeringly LMAO part about this debate is that nearly every example given has Men working in groups or organizations to overcome an objective. The women simply overcome some internal emotional barrier, not shown in the screen, and are singularly more powerful/skilled/intelligent enough to PERFECTLY overcome their objective. Which is the COMPLETE opposite of the late 70's-late 90's action film/TV series. It's also completely political opposite of the Liberal Democratic talking points of the last 35+ years! 😆
And fact that they specifically forget about strong woman characters that existed before. Not because they bad. But because they don't have label about that. Like The ancient one from Doctor Strange. Her original character is a old man. And she played this role perfectly. But no one talk about her even through she a very good example of perfectly written stron woman character
One big thing, too, is these studios always seem to try and fill in what they think is a male centered role with a woman. And so they write a personality into the script for the female mc to show "confidence", "independence", "stoicism" to show that women can fill in for men no problem. In reality, these traits are leaned in too much. Confidence is cockiness and narcissism. Independence is selfishness and pride. Stoicism is completely turning emotions and empathy off, to the point of sociopathy. They become toxic and flat. And they end up creating the very man they see all men as, but with bobs and vagene. Maybe thats the problem. They just hate men and paint them in a bad light, they dont see the depth of male characters, so when writing a female mc, they write a male mc the only know to see.
You might be looking way too deep into this tbh. Usually it's just shit character writing in general, and the writers who are bad at making strong female characters would have made the same mistakes had they been instructed to make a strong male one.
@@Spiderella3959 nah, I don't watch many western stuff but most of the modern female characters are always given what is seen as traditional masculine traits. It's pretty easy to see
@@DeadPressed4444 and how is that bad? Women irl also posess said "traditionally masculine traits" (again, which traditions are we talking ab? What era, what country? That is a rethorical question, just saying that this term is rather broad), it's not about that. The op and I state that said traits get overexaggerated and the complexity gets thrown out the window. I simply add that this is simply bad writing in general and that creatively bankrupt people writing for hollywood who can only make equivalents to sonic OC's wouldn't be able to write a strong male protag with those same traits cuz they don't know what depth is
That's not stocism. Stocism is about controlling your emotions because they can be destructive. It doesn't stop you from feeling. It's about having the self control not to act on it so that you can avoid losing yourself in despair or anger.
@jen-jen5470 I think I overexplained. I do that often. What I meant to say is that these writers have a very narrow view on men, so when they try to write female mcs to take the place of what they think is a male role, it's a reflection of their honestly very misandrist views toward men.
They don't hate strong women character, they hate strong women caricatures. And there's a lot of caricatures in film, most people hate a variety of them.
7:37 Actually a lot of people actually like Finn from the sequel trilogy… honestly a lot of the characters were interesting on paper, they just needed a better script… but that’s just me nitpicking
Well said, I hate captain marvel and she hulk because they’re written so poorly, not because they’re women. It’s tiring how writers just hide behind the excuse that people just don’t like women as a way to give the bad writing a pass.
If you really hate them for their writing, then maybe you should read more interviews with the writers or look into their previous work, then you’d appreciate them more.
No, the REAL problem is not the writing, it’s the CRITICISM. You people love to criticize everything nowadays and don’t let younger people enjoy their favorite new purveyor entertainment. It’s harassment of today’s youth to always insist that everything new is bad and that they shouldn’t like it.
you are 100% right about the OP anime protagonists. i pretty much stay away from any and all anime with such characters cause ive seen SO MANY done poorly, never giving the good ones the chance they may well deserve.
Audiences Hate Bad Writing, Not Strong Women... yes, that's been a thing that has been said for years and years at this point. c.c It has just been hard-tamped down by the Media and the... political pundits involved, and it is slowly being overcome by the force of inertia. I have difficulty watching most shows in the West these days due to the horrible 'strong woman' writing, there are plenty of strong women in older media and in Anime... there are entire shows I LOVE where the most powerful/important characters in them are women, but they still have vulnerabilities and flaws and are full characters. In that point, I tend to find the 'best' written characters involve groups where different characters need side-characters who can cover for their issues, and maybe grow due to interacting with these others then these secondary characters fade from the story as their lessons/skills are subsumed. Now, for OP characters... yes, you need to put their own struggles down that even we wouldn't normally need... quick examples: * One Punch Man: He is OP as heck, but nobody is willing to accept he is actually that strong and think he's a liar, and he struggles with mundane things like getting the sales he needs for his limited budget, etc. * Didn't I say to make my abilities Average: Girl is just 'too good', just the best and so strong... but she wants friends, HER struggle is to get a group of friends who isn't freaked out by her OP-ness and wants to live a normal life, but she keeps having to pull out her Strength and that freaks her out. She doesn't want to be such an 'unattainable princess' that others can't even approach her, which was what 'ruined' her life before. The best way to have a functional OP character is to have the way they are OP only be obliquely relevant to the story... You want to have an incredibly powerful person who just can win every fight... fine, great, throw a few fights in for them occasionally... but make the main crux of the story be academics, or having to get a team able to keep up with them and the emotional struggles there-in, or focus on the comedy of having such a character and make their super-powers a bit of a liability (ooops, destroyed another car door... damn this is getting expensive)... Characters need hurdles, even if it isn't their direct hurdle: Having a super-strong mentor struggling to help their student learn and get through to them is a very fulfilling story as well, learning as they teach. Just the story being 'The power was inside you all the time' is a story for children, and I do mean that... those are stories only for protagonists who are emotional wrecks who cannot believe in themselves, they ~need to get out of their own way so they can succeed~. These stories are meant for early to mid teens, showing how their ~arrogance~ and confidence that they are too-good-to-listen needs to be broken so that all it takes is for them to calm down, listen, and realize 'Oh, I can do it, but... X was something I wasn't willing to learn and now I can do it'... THAT is how you do those stories. u.u
Hotter take: it's not about good writing or bad writing it's about respect. People can enjoy bad writing, strong characters, or weak characters. But only if they feel respected (or at least not disrespected). It does not matter AT ALL how well written female Thor is. It matters is that she is female thor, in thor series, there to repalce and humiliate him. You CAN write that well and it will not matter. Just like it did not matter that Padme Amidala was written terribly. Maybe worse than Rey. It does not matter how well u write Kate Bishop. Its a bait and switch series that is called Hawkeye, she will always be hated because people who watch Hawkeye arent there for his replacement. If you are confident in your character, name series Kate Bishop and have Hawkeye star in it as a mentor. That will cut animosity by more than half. Maybe erase it completely if it's that good.
Like those "its too bad to not be good" Like Clue You watch one and wouldn't mind if at some point you have 5to watch it again. The uh "others more modern movies" You watch once and hope that you never have to watch it ever again in your enitre life.
Honestly Nimona illustrated a whole lot of hollywood's trouble with writing. Most people dont care if the movie has a strong female lead (nimona), a gay couple (braveheart/ambrosius), and other stuff SO LONG AS its secondary to a well written and enjoyable film with well written and likable characters (even villains you hate, you should appreciate they're writing and LOVE to hate them). Bros looked horrible cause was stereotypically written oversexualized/fruity nonsense, though the trailers did make the main couple seem ok (idk i didnt watch it, everyone else looked insufferable and I say that as a bi dude). She hulk was atrocious because all the strong woman moments failed completely in the face of a man who has suffered more than she'd likely experience in a lifetime. "Oh youre girlfriend had to get sacrificed and you were treated as a monster/weapon and had to isolate yourself? Well i get catcalled so I have it worse!". Whoever wrote that show should never be allowed to screenwrite again it was laughably embarrassing. Meanwhile Nimona you've got a strong female lead that isnt afraid to show vulnerability and weakness as she becomes closer with Braveheart, you've got a gay relationship between Braveheart/ambrosius that feels extremely natural and isn't the only interesting part of their characters. Hell the movie is also very symbolic of a trans allegory, but they never blatantly shove it in your face and force you to 100% agree. Even Nimona, the trans allegory character, isnt perfect and has her own prejudices she had to overcome to establish a good middle ground with humanity. THATS HOW YOU DO IT😂.
When writing stories, a method I use to prevent myself from falling into the trope of “strong female characters” is instead of focusing on the power side of the character, I focus on the human side. If I give her superpowers, I make her feel self doubt and worry. I make her relatable.
A funny thing is that you mention Goblin Slayer. The literal strongest squad of Heroes is a group of Heroines who have fought alongside for years and are trying to D&D their way to beating the MAIN VILLAINS of that world. But due to such responsibilities, they are only sometimes around, and many scenarios we see in the show and movie come to be.
The point this video made matches perfectly with something I recently learned from a video of a psychometric scientist. Normally psychometry broadly categorizes people as varying on a 5 dimensional spectrum of character traids: Extroversion, openess, conscientiousness, agreeableness and neuroticism. As a shadow of these traids emerged the dark triad of anti social personality traids, being psychopathy, narcisism and machiavellianism (with sadism recently added). The studies of this scientist and his group suggest, that apparently all of the dark traids can be accounted for and effectively calculated out as stand alone dimensions, by making them a combination of the big 5 and having them score lowest on an added new sixth dimenion called humility. What does that mean effectively? That it's no wonder, these "strong female characters" who absolutely lack humility, feel like narcissistic psychopaths. Because that's apparently the same thing. And listening to the authors who wrote said characters as self insters, shows that they don't even understand what humility means, to nobody's surprise. Disney tells us that coldhearted narcissistic psychopaths are heros now and should be worshipped for being perfect as they are, if they happen to be female. Meanwhile the audience knows better that that's what makes a villain, not a hero.
A classic case of this is Nick Fury in the Avengers movies, in the comics, he is a white man. In the movies he is a black man played by Samuel L Jackson and no-one talks about it bc Samuel L Jackson is a fantastic actor and he maximises the writing. Writing competency and acting competency is very important.
The actors/actresses can carry a show/movie so far if bad writing is the main thing. Good writing however carries the movie and makes the job easier on actors and actresses go figure how that logic works lol.
9:02 Vin from Mistborn is a pretty good strong female character also. I'd love to see her either animated or in live action. However, she's in love with... A man! (Gasp!) We can't have that in our modern media! At least we know that Sanderson won't actually agree to have any of his works adapted unless he's deeply involved with the process, so if it ever happens, it will be good. But last year he said that he'd be surprised if he wasn't filming this year, and he's still not filming, so an adaptation seems less and less likely.
Ah yes, cause resisting the urge to punch some dude because he catcalled you is SO much harder than dealing with all the trauma Bruce has been through.
11:50 Goblin Slayer was the specialist about slaying goblins. He didn't keep it to himself so he would always be the best. He used his skill to make sure his friends knew how to use their own abilities in the ideal ways to overcome situations. More importantly he also learned from them.
Those types of characters remind me of generic shounen protags. Everyone critisizes them for being overpowered cardboard cutout twinks that can somehow outmatch all of their adverseries. And these hollywood writers have just found out about the tropes and don't know why people are critisizing them.
I know what’s going on, the pandemic has made people more and more bitter and less innocent about the world. Well I recommend regaining some of that optimism so that we can love our entertainment again.
The hulk doesn't change because he loses control he changes because he has multiple personalities and thats why she hulk has full control because she doesn't have a mental problem(split personality).
Spoken like someone who hasn't read the comics. She-hulk is, in a way, another personality to Jen Walter's. She was timid and meek when first introduced, it was when she became she-hulk that her persona was that of a bomb shell woman who could do what she set her mind to while also being more confident in herself. Sure, overtime she could learn to control herself, but it didn't happen at the drop of a hat. Even if she could control, people liked her because she was a character that people enjoyed. MCU she-hulk was just more pandering to a small group of people that don't even read comics or watch these series.
@@grizzakaful i'll admit that i didn't read that much of the comic but i did know of jen's timid personality before she hulk and how she became afterward. Still it doesn't change what i wrote, jen just got a confidence boost that in most cases when a timid person gets power of one sort or another they lose their heads and get arrogant and think they are unstoppable. Jen never had a different persona controling or competing with her, even amadeous (hulkling i think he was called) didn't have a second persona but had way more confidence than he originally had. Bruce on the other hand has varies personalities in his psique that's why there's a maestro, professor hulk, mr fix it, etc. I do agree that she hulk is badly written in the series and the whole control of her strengh was unrealistic as well as many missed oppotunities the writters miss out on developing. I noticed that what i wrote does mislead when i say she has full control but i was refering to her mental state not her powers in itself, she should of had more problems holding a cup or opening doors.
It's true, we DO like strong women, just not badly written OP Mary Sues who can do anything with no effort just because they're awesome don't need no man to save them. We don't want male Mary Sues either.
The problem with todays writing main characters is they are very forced, boring and generic, the MESSAGE embodiment, never fails to dissappoint, and takes a dump on older better characters especially if they are past male haracyers.
In the words of my own mother: "Disney is still selling what it always has, the image of a perfect woman. It's just that what that means has changed."
Based mom
Nah that's actually kinda hard
That's a Woah moment
Matches very well with "the more things change, the more they stay the same"
Writing men and women as normal, reasonable human beings with logical motivations? What a novel idea!
Ikr???? It's almost like the thing that's down in a fictional character's pants should not justify lazy, illogical, plothole-riddled writing of their personality and interactions with other characters
Reasonable human beings in movies, in this age, ridicolous ...
@@Lagi42800we need a movie that tells us to destory mankind
Even characters with illogical motivations could work better. Just write them as a person, yet they can not do it.
Men like that are fairy tales though! I swear!
The best way I think this can be put is that people don't hate strong female characters. They hate "strong female characters™". Big entertainment studios have made it into an absolutely horrible trope.
perfect.
Aka Mary sue.
@@seabass819I end up reading a lot of Japanese light novels whose characters are arguably extreme examples of the Mary Sue trope. Having a super cool main character isn't so bad sometimes. Same with Gary Stu characters. Sometimes having an MC who is just a badass is fine.
In my youth I read a lot of fanfiction that does the same. You have his main character who's obviously a self insert character and she just pops out of the metaphorical womb with enough amazing abilities to stand toe-to-toe with your level 99 RPG characters after they beat the final boss.
The "strong female character" trope is arguably a lot more toxic because rather than just being a self insert hero fantasy, it's got this undercurrent of envy and resentment. Instead of just having the coolest character, they also have to be constantly making jabs at everything that isn't the "strong female character".
The original Mary Sue was perfect, and loved by everyone, and could do anything. I suspect that story didn't then have to kneecap the original cast as incompetent losers who were just holding Mary Sue back and the moral of her story was that she needs to ignore those losers since they're just jealous and they're holding her back.
Well, the thing is, if the characters themselves were just bland, then it wouldn’t be as bad as it is now. It’s when companies make the male characters look incompetent to make the “strong female protagonist” look badass that it gets really problematic.
For a character to be strong, they also need to show them being weak. They won't show a strong independent woman being weak, because it's purpose is to show a strong independent woman. Now they will do that to male character because that is the goal to make them look weak, case and point, the new superman animated series.
The studios are doing it on purpose
We have grown up with tons of strong female characters in fiction. Samus Aran, Sarah Connor, Ellen Ripley, Sailor Moon, Chun-li, just to name a few of the popular ones, and virtually no one complained.
I can't call Sailor Moon strong. Most episodes she just get scared and runs away for half an episode only to then OHKO the enemy in a single attack at the end. it's reasonable for the first episode, but it gets really annoying after a while. Perhaps you are referring to other girls in her team though?
Card Captor Sakura was a better example if you wanted to name an anime for girls that was on tv at the same time (in my country the two shows shared the same time slot but on different ways of the week).
Dude. Exactly. Somehow Sexist started appearing AFTER we got crappy female characters
@@silverhawkscape2677 that is not true. Sexists didn't magically appear after someone made a badly written character, they've always been there but simply weren't given the opportunity to complain on that big of a scale, secluded to shitty forums and such. Now with the reach of the internet and with the fumble that big budget movies have become, they've simply gotten way more space to perpetually scream into the void
@jen-jen5470 True but they are still a sliver of a fraction of the people watching, regardless of how loud and far they scream. Once we can get everyone to settle into the reality of that we can solve some problems for once, instead of pretending like these people represent even 1% of people giving criticism. I mean think about it this way too, even just among sexist, some are so sexist they are not even going to watch or engage with these mediums because of how they think, so it's no exaggeration that they hardly make up anyone discussing the cinematic of the last generation if not longer.
@@joshbull623 can I ask you for more precise data on that "less than 1%" part? As it greatly depends on where you are from and what culture you interact with. There are places where sexism is a less obvious issue, there are those where it's so obvious you will both figuratively and literally get beat over the head with it. In something like the US sexism is mostly not allowed legally, but it doesn't mean people magically just stopped being sexist culturally. It's frowned upon in most places but the degree also depends on where one lives. So the US clowns, (especially post halo and cod ones who complain the loudest and frequent the internet as right now those topics include their age demographic) flee to their backwards ass forums and youtube videos to do said complaining. They make up a part of the population that could be interpreted as relatively small, but that "relatively small" gets greatly inflated cuz the country is so large, which in turn makes up a sizeable part of complaints and screaming on the web cuz the internet is really the only place where they can do so. Now add people from "traditionalist" countries who also frequent those same places and here you go
In conclusion: statistics is bs and I hate it cuz one can screw the numbers to appeal to their own idea of the world.
Man I kinda feel like the writers who wrote she-hulk and Peter pan and Wendy are like those people who think wearing glasses make them smarter or something
Or talking louder makes them seem intelligent
Denji would never write something so stupid
@@juarezamorimmakima ❤❤
For what i heard, actually the cómic for She hulk had certain themes like lack of self confidence and identity and flaws in a carismatic character, the writters could have easly adapted it, but no, why put people to adapt a comic when they aren't interested in them.
You have to fail a test to get glasses, I don't understand why people think that.
Animated mulan: I might not be as physically strong as the trained men around me so I'll work hard and figure out how to overcome this shortcoming
Live action mulan: I was born with superpowers and immediately superior to those around me
Guess which one is more enjoyable
That scene where she literally use Discipline and Strength to climb the pole and getting the arrow so she gets to stay is brilliant
At the time no one knew she was a woman, They just knew she was weak and wouldn't survive
@@dizzyheadsThat scene gave me chills, along with everyone bowing to her at the end.
@@DivusMagus
Exactly
She proved herself twice and earned the respect for herself twice.
She was so resourceful and creative it felt genius
She never really overpowered her enemies mostly just outsmarted them.
It sucks because my family were searching if we got the right movie
Also the fact that the actress decided to orient her performance on a porcelain doll didn't help.
Animated Mulan: Total failure during training to the point she's sent home, only managing to earn her place with cleverness and hard work.
Live action Mulan: So goddamn amazing that the general offers to let her marry his daughter on day one.
Strong woman is a great South Park character
Not true, she ...🤢
Had sex with her boss 🤮🤮🤮
PC Babies are a hilarious byproduct tho
💀
@@xmesman9844💀💀
She was strong cause she evolved to not be scared to be weak
Heather Swanson >>>>
The problem with these kinds of characters is that they don't grow or change with the world around them, it's that the world needs to change _for them_
This is a message I hate that I keep hearing being pushed towards girls and women today. Some modern pop song even has the a line to this exact effect. Sure, you shouldn't try being something you're not to please people that don't even like you, but if you're a toxic douche-nozzle the world around you shouldn't have to just accept your destructive behavior. Our ability to adapt is why we've been able to survive for so long and build such great things. If we all lived by this message, we'd still be living in mud huts, killing any and every thing that stood in our way until there was nothing left to eat and entire ecosystems were destroyed out of spite.
@@SomeRandomJackAssthat's literally how we live now, just switch mud huts to wooden boxes.
"And you can prove a point with your story" hits really well when you have a mental block creatively. Well done, Nux. Awesome as always.
Literally. There are amazing example on how to properly write women in media.
Even if a character is perfect and doesn't struggle that much, it doesn't make a character bad. What would make this character insufferable, would be the character being smug about it and rubbing under everyones noses how much better they are. If a perfect character is at least humble (not too humble ofc) and respects people around them even though the character is much better than everyone around them, I would bet, that most people would like the character anyways.
that may be why Superman has a pretty big fanbase. Dude's practically a god but he's not arrogant about it and has only a few flaws to speak of.
Superman is a classic example of this fact. He is undoubtedly the most powerful superhero ever created, but it's not his godly powers that ultimately define him, which is a flaw many of the "Strong Female Characters" have. They allow their "Empowerment" and "Struggles as a women" to define their entire sense of identity. Which ultimately makes them shallow in both character development and positive impact with audiences.
Superman on the other hand, it's not just his power that makes him a great hero (Though it most certainly helps) It's his selflessness, his kindness, his uncompromising sense of right and wrong, his unwavering loyalty to his friends and family, his respect and love for all life regardless if it comes from Earth, Outer Space or a parallel universe. All these qualities and more are the reasons he's a timeless character and one of the best examples of what it means to be a hero. Because all these positive qualities are things we can all aspire to.
We don't need god-like power to make a positive difference in the world. We just need to find the courage to stand up for what's right. Superman taught me that.
Like Superman. He's basically a god, but I have never seen him be smug. And everyone likes him.
@@RPGgrenade Oh shit, didn't see someone already made my point. lol
@@erikbrown6645 He's also just a great overall role-model. Which can't be said about most heroes nowadays.
The worst thing is that western journalists and writers don't even understand anime characters and what makes them good.
I once had the misfortune of having been shown an article from Kotaku (ew) which praised a female character from an anime for all the wrong reasons, putting her flaws on a pedestal and implying that these negative character traits are what makes her better than the other members of the cast or other girls in that franchise... even though these exact same traits are the ones the character has to work on and learn to overcome and basically do a 180° on to become a more complete person.
The article completely got her backwards.
(btw. the article was about Ruki from Digimon Tamers and it praised her being ruthless, mistrustful and ambitious because she "wanted to win", even when one of her biggest moments of growth is to realize that there is nothing to win because she isn't actually playing a game and Digimon are actually real living beings.)
Oh yeah, HER. I loved her arc as a kid.
How do they misunderstand a character so thoroughly, it's baffling frankly.
@@provis345p9 where does he generalizes anime? He only did so to the journalist, which is actually true
Oh yeah, I love Digimon tamers! The character development is great, and the usage of tons of digimon makes it better.
Rika is my favourite digimon character. Her and Renamon were awesome.
@@provis345p9 I mean, that's all forms of media. Film, videogames, books. Majority of content produced are far from what most people would consider "good".
Even Mary Sues and Gary Stues can be likable if they're at least funny or even decent human beings, but a lot of these strong female protagonists are just straight up evil or full of hate and discontent, not to mention smug (and not in a good way).
I'm sure that means they're barely Mary Sues or Gary Stues at all, because those term specifically refers to perfection without personality
@@DeadPressed4444 The standard troupe character doesn't have to be likeable at all, but for some reason so does everyone like them.
What about the girl ligit named Mary Sue from Girls und Panzer Das Finale, that is her actual name but she is a very likable character when you get to know her more.
@@DeadPressed4444 there's Lucy from the Fallout show.... and that's it😅
In regards to goblin slayer, he is actually very capable even beyond just goblins considering all the things he actually fought, the thing about him is that he is a great representation of sacrifice, he threw away soo much to be what he is, every moment he spends not fighting goblins in mostly spent in preparation for future battles, he is always ready for battle hence why he never takes of his armor except when servicing it with the blacksmith, like bruh he shows up with it in his sleep to. There is no grand adventure for him, just day in and day out of what is basically a one man crusade, he only slowly opens up more when he spends more time with his party members' company, slowly becoming more human.
Goblin Slayer is truly the Batman of anime.
@@purestdark8819When the No Killing Rule never applies to Goblins.
@@purestdark8819 no... the "batman of anime" is.... well, in terms of a character, then yes, you're right, but... the real "anime batman" series is....
The Big O ( examples: ruclips.net/video/s7_Od9CmTu0/видео.html and ruclips.net/video/YUIJ-GUZ1dY/видео.html and ruclips.net/video/JfO17YXmVkM/видео.html )
it's literally japanese (anime) batman (which means it got to also have mecha in it), laughs
@@redmoonbloodmoon3161and now there’s Suicide Squad Isekai coming out sometime soon too
I must admit, a lot of times I see people online talking bad about Goblin Slayer, calling it a bad anime/manga. So it warms my heart to see someone talking positively about my all time favourite anime and manga. And yeah, while goblin slaying is a big part of it, I feel like a majority of the anime is about him and his relationships to people, be it Cowgirl, his party, Guild girl or the other adventurers. As you said, its about him slowly learning to be human again. The second season has an episode that shows that well, where he goes to the pub for drinks with Spearman and Heavy Swordsman. While they are both in normal clothes, he is still in armour, and it is clear that just going out for drinks with friends is something he wouldn't normally ever do.
Slayers is such a great example of a group of characters with varying specialties who all feel relevant through the story
Holy crap talk about a strong female lead, Slayers was my first anime at 4 years old and sits at the pinnacle of a well written group. Lena is flawed as hell; greedy, loud, arrogant and short tempered to name a few but she is incredibly powerful to the detriment of herself more often then not and at the end of the day when sitting in an inn knowing that the newly reborn demon lord is gaining power and she and her two companions could just run away but instead go back to fight to what is absolutely going to be their deaths is peak hero journey and that's only one of the characters.
Honestly the problem is they treat it like a promotional point, rather than a natural character trait. You see the same with a lot of virtue signaling media and their inclusion of LGBTQ characters as well. It's almost reminiscent of blacksploitation filmmaking back in the day, in some ways. Hollywood simply sees it as an untapped audience, and is clumsily trying to appeal to them. Compare that instead to moving like, say, Alien, where the script specifically had gender neutral names, and characters developed naturally, not as a marketing gimmick.
"Being yourself" has resulted in the most self centered generation in like 100 years. Something I learned is that while there is something called "Talent" there will always be a 'wall' for talent. Hard work will ALWAYS surpass uncultivated talent. You won't be enough, whether that is right now, or if that's that one person alone can't complete the objective. You WILL fail, it's what you do after failure that defines you.
Being yourself is the starting point of being healthy. You become great by trying to become better than yourself.
Never expected to hear such deep words from Nux of all people. Good job!
the thing I always wondered about children falling from their prams in peter pan is, did these nannies just keep going and didn't bother to stop and pick the kid up? that's why they were hired.
This is just one of the many examples of proof that " neverland" is a sort of purgatory. When they fell out of the pram they died.
Ya no, they died when they fell, that's the context
@@Panteni87 but they grow.... only peter pan never grows
@@jacksparrowismydaddy in the original story they did not grow physically, they were basically lost spirits.
@@777SilverPhoenix777 oh
ok thanks
It funny how Disney and Hollywood is quick to complain about overpowered male character, so there answer is "Let's just to the same thing to woman and some how people will like them". Little Suprise when it doesn't work 😤
It's not about equality, it's about revenge.
@@citizen4610 facts
I said this once, “Flipping the oppressive roles isn’t equality, it’s a poorly disguised revenge fantasy. Real equality is forged by having an even split in all decision making.”
@@citizen4610Indeed. Arguably what the goal of recent Feminist movements have been. Revenge.
@@citizen4610yup revenge from people that were not victims and towards people who were not doing anything
A quality example of a bad character was left out by neglecting to mention Teela from the recent Masters of the Universe: Revelations. There was a scene against a villain, Scareglow, that uses your greatest fear against you and her greatest fear was literally that she was too awesome and she was holding herself back. That was a thing that they wrote and showrunner Kevin Smith (yes, _that_ Kevin Smith of Clerks/Mallrats/Jay & Silent Bob fame) approved.
@@falsnamae3511 Superman's fear is justified and deserved, Teela's absolutely was not.
@@falsnamae3511 being too overpowered and being perfect isn't the same thing
These characters a written this way on purpose. The idea is that they are stong, independent and capable on their own. This is what makes them so unrelatable. We all need friends, family, teachers and allys. That is what makes us human.
Like how Arnold Schwarzenegger responded by saying that he wasn't a self made man.
I don’t know, they seem relatable to me.
Absolutely! Just thinking on Goblin Slayer more, 3 arcs in the first season does that. The raid on the goblins near the elven boarder highlights the skills of his new team, and the ass pull to beat the orge required the team buying time without him.
Water Town featured everybody having needed skills and the humans being at disadvantage to their peers. But constant pressure invading the goblins turf got them running.
Season 1 conclusion, the farm raid, he did what was necessary and asked for support. It took convincing and strategy, but they got the raid and lost only a few lives.
"You are sufficient" can be a good message, but you have to build around that in the first place. The character in question would have to start his/her journey believe they are not actually sufficient for the task at hand for whatever kind of insecurity or inferiority you wish to have for them. Then, over the course of the story, they find important moments of self-actualization in small yet key moments; they can stand up to the belittlers in other squads/classrooms; they can use that power or special technique they've been trained in but haven't been able to pull off; they can bridge the gap between their fellow mates where they thought it was impossible for personal reasons. At the end of the story, all of these little moments coalesce into the realization that they are that good/powerful and it become their moment to be the epic character we knew they could be all along.
The problem with most of these shows is that their attempts to make those "little moments"--if they even try at all--turn out to be VERY superficial or simplistic, and it undermines the entire premise.
I really liked your Goblin Slayer example. You are right. The other characters are all really cool and useful and powerful in their own right. It is the situation that makes them unprepared and inexperienced enough to fail without the Goblin Slayer's help. However they are all instrumental in conquering the goblins even with the Slayer's help.
The lizard man's brute strength and ability to summon skeleton lizards is key in several scenes from the show.
The Dwarf's sleep spells and rock magic takes out huge crowds of goblins and even an entire ship of them.. plus he saves the elf's life, and kills a lot of them solo.
The elf cuts down their numbers almost by half with her peerless archery and even though she's kind of annoying, her skill cannot be denied. Even using their own shitty arrows against them.
And without the priestess, a lot of them definitely would have died.
I also love how they used her barrier magic for so much more than it's intended purpose. Using it to immobilize goblins, to trap them in a fire, to shield everyone from arrows (well that is what it is meant for), and to block their escape.
I also really like how the elf's naivety about the goblins slowly gets turned from "oh these are not a threat to worry about" to "We must kill all of these bastards". She basically goes from clueless to being just like the Goblin Slayer himself, after that one scene where they rescued an elf from the goblins. That transformation of hers after experiencing the real world for the first time is amazing. This goes along with the main point of the video.. she is already overpowered, but she is still weak due to inexperience and naivety. It takes a lot of struggle for her to get over her overconfidence and sheltered view of the world, but it was very interesting to see that growth in the show.
The priestess went from a naïve and helpless little cupcake literally pissing herself in fear against a single goblin, to being a hardened adventurer that was instrumental in destroying the goblin Lord. And she EARNED that the hard way.
It's kind of ironic that a show that people shit on for "being absolutely detrimental to women" actually has better female characters and more empowering growth for them than the shows that are supposedly woke.
The writer of goblin slayer knows his shit. Very few write knows how to write side character at all. Character progression betweens goblins becoming more human and priestess becoming more competent adventure is also one of it's strong point.
@LadyPompax Yeah, it's tragic that Krillin is literally the strongest human on Earth, but he still is a joke to the rest of the cast because he's only human.
Meanwhile they are fighting god's of destruction and entities that can destroy entire universes. Making him essentially useless.
I dont mind a completely op character from the start if its done in a very specific way. Anime does a good job with this. If you can break a city with a single punch it feels good to see said character punch a guy through a wall for assaulting an innocent person.
Saitama, One Punch Man 👊
When done right you can get an amazing moment where the villian is about to win and then the hero shows up and you go "Oh, now we are safe" like a few superman comics and that one sea king arch in One punch man.
James Bond always comes to mind on this topic. He was an OP character from the start but his background justified his overpowerness to where the audience didn't have to suspend disbelief.
Cid Kagenous is an example of how you can make an op as hell bur likeable character we know he's going to win, but he's going to do it in the most over the top ridiculous ridiculous way imaginable and we fucking love it for that.
@Ms666slayer that's why I love anime tbh. I feel it's ok to have an op character as long as you can show off why that character is op. You just can't do that in live action unless you plan to sink 500m into a movie. Even then it's so much cgi it might as well be animated for a fraction of the price
Luke Skywalker in the original Star Wars wasn’t strong at first, but through character development and training through 3 movies he became really strong. Rey came in and was good at everything and was a super boring character.
Exactly. Him using the force in destroying the Death Star was to show his Potential.
Now, They ruined it. Leaked Drafts were supposed to show Luke Meditating with Boulders Floating around.
Rey would have been a great character if they actually turned her to the dark side and she became the villain
"Oh I can't do this thing? It's too hard? Fing watch me" is a scary trait for a villain. For a hero, it's boring. For a villain, it's great.
But nobody had the courage to do that, even when the entire movie teased that.
@TheHauntedKiwi and Ben Solo blind by how his family are heros and attempts to do the same thing. Inprise by Anakin, work as double agent, doing evil thing so he can work his way through frist order to assassin Snoke, but wonders if end justify the means
Uh… he is the son of the chosen one and is super gifted in the force and a natural pilot. Blowing up the Death Star takes him no effort.
Also he doesn’t shed a tear over his family’s death. Dude is not a well written character.
@@mr.stuffdoer8483 No he is. Far better than Rey. Quit trying to gaslight Star Wars fans that Luke is not a well written Character. Your Insidious methods of gaslighting is sick.
10:54
Here's another example: Shinobu from Demon Slayer. Shinobu's lack of physical strength is called out in her introduction. She's not physically strong enough to cut the heads off demons. But that doesn't make her any less lethal because she uses poisons in her fighting style. Maybe she can't behead a Demon but she can make them literally melt into goop as they scream for help that will never come. Shinobu has an entirely unique fighting style and an entirely unique sword and calls to attention that, yes, there are ways of killing demons that don't require you to have super strength.
That and Shinobu had shown that she mastered the secret JoJo technique of: nigerandayo.
"The Expanse" is a good example of a series that has strong female characters yet it never felt preachy and the characters were treated like real people with real flaws by the writers.
The writers went on strike and all I could think was, " these crappy shows had writers?"
The professionals were overworked and in high demand. These shows were written by helpless interns with no experience.
@stevemcgroob4446 see I have no idea if you are clowning on the writers or have the inside track on working conditions. Both outcomes are kinda sad
They are not crappy in my opinion, in my opinion they are really good!
I actually have this video saved in my watch later and forgot to go watch it, thanks for the reminder Nux!
The perfect example of this is the 13th doctor entire run, which is an awfully written random assortment of events happening to an awfully written random assortment of characters, with no development or logic whatsoever. Then you criticize it and twitter rains down on you as if 'not liking a show for perfectly understandable reasons' is a crime you should be put on a list for
Princess Leia: Exists and is liked by everyone
Cathleen Kennedy ‘Before Rey there weren’t women in Star Wars’
Did no one ever criticize during the development of these strong women movies? It feels like the movie industry is full of bosses that don't like anyone disagreeing with them. Do these bosses not have any real strong women in their lives? As in women who inspire them. Not necessarily for being physically strong but for being strong as a person. For me, the strongest woman I've ever known was my grandma. Even with her gone she still inspires me every day. Love you, grandma. ❤
Honestly, I keep going back to animation because it often trumps live action in terms of writing female characters. The Owl House was a phenomal show, from Disney, that had a female lead who struck the perfect balance to make a strong female character that wasn't afraid to do the right thing despite the pressures of her situation.
About time someone else besides me said THIS too!
This is why I watch modern cartoons WAY more often than live action Hollywood nowadays.
"If you do not need others, others do not need you." - Doomslayer.
My thoughts exactly, I wish people can have this discussion without accusing others of being misogynistic and/or jackasses using the discourse as an excuse to be misogynistic… but hay that’s the internet for ya 😅
I love the Peter Pan lost boys example it’s my favorite argument to use when someone brings up this topic
The way I look a modern writing the hero's journey starts at the top of the mountain rather than at the bottom and when you start at the top there is only one way you can go.
As a woman, and feminist. Yes i hate She-Hulk and i agree on all of this. Its not sexist, it just a coincidence recent years story and writing just bland and flat. The protag being a female or male has no relevance. It just bad writing
God the Mulan animated move is perfection
I hate the shift in character's mindset in modern stories from "doing something for the sake of others, even if it seems tough" to "fvck everyone else, all I need is my wellbeing and how I feel".
16:53
"Then you can prove a point with your story".
You sir, just earned a subscriber for that one line.
A perfect lesson in a movie, "You as you are now are not enough, however with great sacrifice and effort you WILL become enough."
So weird how only the poorly written characters are subject to s3xism. And never the well written ones.
Or MAYBE it's not about s3xism, but the poor writing... NAH.
It's just tribalism for the sake of drama and controversy. Humanity can't live without it. It's as close as you can get to an infinite loop and then people get tired of it and they can't opt out cause they fell too deep into this infinity.
15:52 I got a character request for this series; Mereoleona from Black Clover. She's the definition of OP done right and a well written female character (imo).
I mean, Ellen Ripley is right there. Arwen was amazing, Jinx was fun, hell Angelina Jolie as Lara Croft was enjoyable.
Preach it and now it feels like a quest to watch every video on this subject
One of my favourite Scifi horror was Alien. Guess the Protag. Also, i used to love Underworld. Guess the protag too.
Here's a fun fact about Mulan live action adaptation.
Their are actually 2 of them, the second one is called "Mulan rise of a warrior" this one also take some liberties wait the source meterial, but it's a 1000 times better disney version.
Just the way this movie present Mulan as this girl who is fighting in the war for (if i remember correctly) 16 years. She is tired, coverd in dirt and have Messy hair........ On the the other hand disney is doing a loreal ad with Mulan in their version.
The idea that you are Sufficient is enough, is a important story. but the fact that you are not sufficient for Everything is JUST as important.
we need more stories like samwise where he as a simple farmer is enough to do his part, it may not be the MOST important one, but without him all would have been lost.
To follow up on that Goblin Slayer Point, remember when Goblin Slayer got his ass kicked because he wasn't fighting a Goblin and only won because of a one-time use trump card? Or better yet, him having shotty equipment that is just barely enough to get by because it's enough to kill goblins? Honestly, love how Goblin Slayer portrays their characters.
The best part about Goblin Slayer though, is how he rubs off on the party and they on him. They help reach other grow rather than use one to step over the other.
The fact that they made She-Hulk not go on rampages just because she's a woman that deals with people's bs all the time pissed me off so much. In the comics she didn't go on rampages because just like a bunch of other characters that can turn into Hulk like forms she doesn't have serious mental issues like Bruce.
One issue I've seen get conflated with this is that, often, when a critic wants to say "People hate media-thing-x because misoginy", they unfortunately don't have to look that hard on the internet to find examples proving their point. There are far too many "Get woke, go broke" channels that, when criticizing a film, often try to make the arguement that said film is bad because it's part of an ideological trend, while spending a comparatively little amount of time actually discussing the problems unique to the media in question. Often, they'll use intentionally inflammatory terms like "M-she-U" or "Wokeness" in their thumbnails or opening statements of their videos, which in turn provides fodder for the average Hollywood critic to point a finger at and say: "See! I told you the haters were all sexist!".
I'm unfamiliar with the channel in question, but the video that nux is reviewing seems to be intentionally avoiding these terms, instead actually focusing on the individual flaws that hold back the story. I'd hesitate to call the narrator "nuanced", because it really shouldn't require any nuance to discuss annoying trends in modern films without descending into culture war talking points, but unfortunately that's where a lot of media criticism on the internet is at at this point.
You have a good point. But then when you remember that the progressive ideas that are meant to be more enlightening than the regressive ones aren't being understood or conveyed well by the writers really puts into question about how progressive those ideas really are.
Btw, I'm a regular viewer of those channels you mentioned and even I realised that those buzzwords sell like pancakes to a crowd of disappointed (largely male) loyal fans who wanted to see greatness unfold. It's more a sign of frustration than hate.
Also, It's so easy to lump all these politics into convenient sides when the progressive people DONT SPEAK UP. They really don't voice their concerns enough. They are complacent about it as long as the "progressive side" "wins".
This is something I've seen far too often with videos talking about comics today. RUclips is drowning in videos talking about how "comics are too WOKE" and pointing to two very specific characters that don't even exist as proof. Yes, comics do have their problems that need to be addressed, such as nonsensical marketing strategies (how do you expect to get new readers when you advertise almost exclusively inside comic books?), rising prices, and an over-reliance on only a handful of characters (see: DC's Batman addiction), but being "too woke" is not one of them. Sure, they'll kind of try to push diversity here and there and some writers do write characters poorly, just like in any other medium, but that's not what's "killing comics." Hell, comics aren't even dying! Sales keep going up, so some of this has to be working to some degree.
I think the biggest example I like to use is Ashoka from Star Wars. People say that Star Wars fans are just sexist for not liking Rey and yet Ashoka has been a fan favorite for years. Not to mention Asajj or Hera or Sebine or _freaking Princess Leia_. Honestly, I'd be surprised if the people accusing others of sexism have even heard of those characters themselves.
9:50 when hollywood forgets that all villains are victims.
The best example of this has got to be Prey! Amber Midthunder did so good in a movie. Considering it came from a franchise that started off with really muscular men with big ass guns but stuck to the formula of using your brains and surroundings instesd of raw strength to defeat the pred.
The best Predator movie to come out in recant years. It was so good to see that franchise actually get some love again.
If I had the skill to, I would do a story about a super op woman that is perfect all the time and is on a mission to defeat the demon lord. But she needs a party of heros to help her, a master tracker to help lead the way around the front lines of the evil armies, a master thief to spot traps, undo locks, and avoid ambushes, a healer to tend to the groups wounds, and a skilled melee specialist that can take on entire groups of enemies by themselves. And all through the story she one up each and every one of them until they all have quit being an adventurer because what's the point when you have "Miss perfect" to save the day. And at the end of the story it's revealed that she is actually the demon lord who's just tormenting adventurers to reduce how many there are in the world that could actually pose a threat to her.
I would pay to watch that.
I've been working on my own writing skills buy writing porn of all things. But a story I've always wanted to write is about a young princess. She lives in a world that was nearly destroyed in a war between the three gods of the world. Early on she's kidnapped by a half demon witch and her two henchmen/friends. The princess ends up freeing herself with the help of a demon sword with very strong fire magic. But when she gets back, her father the king banishes her because the sword is slowly turning her into a demon. So her journey begins to find a way to stop the curse, if she can.
The "strong woman" characters we see today are basically exactly what One Punch Man os parodying but without the self awareness. The perfect warriors with no weaknesses and is good at their job with minimum struggle. And yet, even OPM has weaknesses as he's not exactly the smartest and is also usually late to the fight. He also still strives to be better. So the parody character is still a better character than the current day Stronk Woman.
7:38 wrong. I factually remember that everyone loved finn and everyone agreed that the trilogy would have been better if he was the main character, and ended up becoming a jedi. finally, a stormtrooper to jedi story. but no. they left that as a side plot only mentioned like, twice. he was the best written character, and should have been the main.
There is one word for me that completely negates the whole "you h8 stronk whaman" nonsense; Buffy.
Now there are many of other examples, but this one is mine.
Thanks for promoting this video, I wouldn't have seen it otherwise and it's a message I've been feeling but only poorly articulated up to now.
The staggeringly LMAO part about this debate is that nearly every example given has Men working in groups or organizations to overcome an objective. The women simply overcome some internal emotional barrier, not shown in the screen, and are singularly more powerful/skilled/intelligent enough to PERFECTLY overcome their objective.
Which is the COMPLETE opposite of the late 70's-late 90's action film/TV series. It's also completely political opposite of the Liberal Democratic talking points of the last 35+ years! 😆
They need to take notes from Black Lagoon.
And fact that they specifically forget about strong woman characters that existed before. Not because they bad. But because they don't have label about that.
Like The ancient one from Doctor Strange. Her original character is a old man.
And she played this role perfectly.
But no one talk about her even through she a very good example of perfectly written stron woman character
13:20 - TOPH!
Lol, love how you paused the video just to say Toph. xD
The problem is that the audience knows what a strong female character looks like and the current class of creatives don't.
Yes they do!
Why don’t you stop hating on newest films all the time and let people have amazing childhoods growing up with this entertainment!
One big thing, too, is these studios always seem to try and fill in what they think is a male centered role with a woman. And so they write a personality into the script for the female mc to show "confidence", "independence", "stoicism" to show that women can fill in for men no problem. In reality, these traits are leaned in too much. Confidence is cockiness and narcissism. Independence is selfishness and pride.
Stoicism is completely turning emotions and empathy off, to the point of sociopathy. They become toxic and flat. And they end up creating the very man they see all men as, but with bobs and vagene. Maybe thats the problem. They just hate men and paint them in a bad light, they dont see the depth of male characters, so when writing a female mc, they write a male mc the only know to see.
You might be looking way too deep into this tbh. Usually it's just shit character writing in general, and the writers who are bad at making strong female characters would have made the same mistakes had they been instructed to make a strong male one.
@@Spiderella3959 nah, I don't watch many western stuff but most of the modern female characters are always given what is seen as traditional masculine traits. It's pretty easy to see
@@DeadPressed4444 and how is that bad? Women irl also posess said "traditionally masculine traits" (again, which traditions are we talking ab? What era, what country? That is a rethorical question, just saying that this term is rather broad), it's not about that. The op and I state that said traits get overexaggerated and the complexity gets thrown out the window. I simply add that this is simply bad writing in general and that creatively bankrupt people writing for hollywood who can only make equivalents to sonic OC's wouldn't be able to write a strong male protag with those same traits cuz they don't know what depth is
That's not stocism. Stocism is about controlling your emotions because they can be destructive. It doesn't stop you from feeling. It's about having the self control not to act on it so that you can avoid losing yourself in despair or anger.
@jen-jen5470 I think I overexplained. I do that often. What I meant to say is that these writers have a very narrow view on men, so when they try to write female mcs to take the place of what they think is a male role, it's a reflection of their honestly very misandrist views toward men.
They don't hate strong women character, they hate strong women caricatures.
And there's a lot of caricatures in film, most people hate a variety of them.
Edge of tomorrow is underrated
Don't write a hero or a villain. Write a person.
4:53
Out of Context clipped shipped and saved.
7:37 Actually a lot of people actually like Finn from the sequel trilogy… honestly a lot of the characters were interesting on paper, they just needed a better script… but that’s just me nitpicking
Well said, I hate captain marvel and she hulk because they’re written so poorly, not because they’re women. It’s tiring how writers just hide behind the excuse that people just don’t like women as a way to give the bad writing a pass.
No, they are very good for what they are.
If you really hate them for their writing, then maybe you should read more interviews with the writers or look into their previous work, then you’d appreciate them more.
No, the REAL problem is not the writing, it’s the CRITICISM. You people love to criticize everything nowadays and don’t let younger people enjoy their favorite new purveyor entertainment. It’s harassment of today’s youth to always insist that everything new is bad and that they shouldn’t like it.
Easiest title bait that I agree on 💯
Wishing Nux a nice wholesome day
"Side characters should not be woefully incompetent to show that the protagonist is strong". Isekai protagonist.
you are 100% right about the OP anime protagonists. i pretty much stay away from any and all anime with such characters cause ive seen SO MANY done poorly, never giving the good ones the chance they may well deserve.
I actually really liked RoP's Elrond. He is adorable and I want to put him in my pocket and take him for ice cream.
Audiences Hate Bad Writing, Not Strong Women... yes, that's been a thing that has been said for years and years at this point. c.c It has just been hard-tamped down by the Media and the... political pundits involved, and it is slowly being overcome by the force of inertia.
I have difficulty watching most shows in the West these days due to the horrible 'strong woman' writing, there are plenty of strong women in older media and in Anime... there are entire shows I LOVE where the most powerful/important characters in them are women, but they still have vulnerabilities and flaws and are full characters. In that point, I tend to find the 'best' written characters involve groups where different characters need side-characters who can cover for their issues, and maybe grow due to interacting with these others then these secondary characters fade from the story as their lessons/skills are subsumed.
Now, for OP characters... yes, you need to put their own struggles down that even we wouldn't normally need... quick examples:
* One Punch Man: He is OP as heck, but nobody is willing to accept he is actually that strong and think he's a liar, and he struggles with mundane things like getting the sales he needs for his limited budget, etc.
* Didn't I say to make my abilities Average: Girl is just 'too good', just the best and so strong... but she wants friends, HER struggle is to get a group of friends who isn't freaked out by her OP-ness and wants to live a normal life, but she keeps having to pull out her Strength and that freaks her out. She doesn't want to be such an 'unattainable princess' that others can't even approach her, which was what 'ruined' her life before.
The best way to have a functional OP character is to have the way they are OP only be obliquely relevant to the story... You want to have an incredibly powerful person who just can win every fight... fine, great, throw a few fights in for them occasionally... but make the main crux of the story be academics, or having to get a team able to keep up with them and the emotional struggles there-in, or focus on the comedy of having such a character and make their super-powers a bit of a liability (ooops, destroyed another car door... damn this is getting expensive)... Characters need hurdles, even if it isn't their direct hurdle: Having a super-strong mentor struggling to help their student learn and get through to them is a very fulfilling story as well, learning as they teach.
Just the story being 'The power was inside you all the time' is a story for children, and I do mean that... those are stories only for protagonists who are emotional wrecks who cannot believe in themselves, they ~need to get out of their own way so they can succeed~. These stories are meant for early to mid teens, showing how their ~arrogance~ and confidence that they are too-good-to-listen needs to be broken so that all it takes is for them to calm down, listen, and realize 'Oh, I can do it, but... X was something I wasn't willing to learn and now I can do it'... THAT is how you do those stories. u.u
Turns out that people with poor character are bad at character writing.
Hotter take: it's not about good writing or bad writing it's about respect.
People can enjoy bad writing, strong characters, or weak characters. But only if they feel respected (or at least not disrespected).
It does not matter AT ALL how well written female Thor is. It matters is that she is female thor, in thor series, there to repalce and humiliate him. You CAN write that well and it will not matter.
Just like it did not matter that Padme Amidala was written terribly. Maybe worse than Rey.
It does not matter how well u write Kate Bishop. Its a bait and switch series that is called Hawkeye, she will always be hated because people who watch Hawkeye arent there for his replacement. If you are confident in your character, name series Kate Bishop and have Hawkeye star in it as a mentor. That will cut animosity by more than half. Maybe erase it completely if it's that good.
Like those "its too bad to not be good"
Like Clue
You watch one and wouldn't mind if at some point you have 5to watch it again.
The uh "others more modern movies"
You watch once and hope that you never have to watch it ever again in your enitre life.
“Padme was written terribly”? Dude, you should see The Clone Wars, it will prove you wrong.
She’s not a “replacement”, she’s Clint’s APPRENTICE.
Honestly Nimona illustrated a whole lot of hollywood's trouble with writing. Most people dont care if the movie has a strong female lead (nimona), a gay couple (braveheart/ambrosius), and other stuff SO LONG AS its secondary to a well written and enjoyable film with well written and likable characters (even villains you hate, you should appreciate they're writing and LOVE to hate them). Bros looked horrible cause was stereotypically written oversexualized/fruity nonsense, though the trailers did make the main couple seem ok (idk i didnt watch it, everyone else looked insufferable and I say that as a bi dude). She hulk was atrocious because all the strong woman moments failed completely in the face of a man who has suffered more than she'd likely experience in a lifetime. "Oh youre girlfriend had to get sacrificed and you were treated as a monster/weapon and had to isolate yourself? Well i get catcalled so I have it worse!". Whoever wrote that show should never be allowed to screenwrite again it was laughably embarrassing.
Meanwhile Nimona you've got a strong female lead that isnt afraid to show vulnerability and weakness as she becomes closer with Braveheart, you've got a gay relationship between Braveheart/ambrosius that feels extremely natural and isn't the only interesting part of their characters. Hell the movie is also very symbolic of a trans allegory, but they never blatantly shove it in your face and force you to 100% agree. Even Nimona, the trans allegory character, isnt perfect and has her own prejudices she had to overcome to establish a good middle ground with humanity. THATS HOW YOU DO IT😂.
Yo, I straight up loved Nimona. Was a fantastic movie.
When writing stories, a method I use to prevent myself from falling into the trope of “strong female characters” is instead of focusing on the power side of the character, I focus on the human side. If I give her superpowers, I make her feel self doubt and worry. I make her relatable.
A funny thing is that you mention Goblin Slayer. The literal strongest squad of Heroes is a group of Heroines who have fought alongside for years and are trying to D&D their way to beating the MAIN VILLAINS of that world. But due to such responsibilities, they are only sometimes around, and many scenarios we see in the show and movie come to be.
The point this video made matches perfectly with something I recently learned from a video of a psychometric scientist.
Normally psychometry broadly categorizes people as varying on a 5 dimensional spectrum of character traids: Extroversion, openess, conscientiousness, agreeableness and neuroticism. As a shadow of these traids emerged the dark triad of anti social personality traids, being psychopathy, narcisism and machiavellianism (with sadism recently added).
The studies of this scientist and his group suggest, that apparently all of the dark traids can be accounted for and effectively calculated out as stand alone dimensions, by making them a combination of the big 5 and having them score lowest on an added new sixth dimenion called humility.
What does that mean effectively? That it's no wonder, these "strong female characters" who absolutely lack humility, feel like narcissistic psychopaths. Because that's apparently the same thing. And listening to the authors who wrote said characters as self insters, shows that they don't even understand what humility means, to nobody's surprise.
Disney tells us that coldhearted narcissistic psychopaths are heros now and should be worshipped for being perfect as they are, if they happen to be female. Meanwhile the audience knows better that that's what makes a villain, not a hero.
A classic case of this is Nick Fury in the Avengers movies, in the comics, he is a white man. In the movies he is a black man played by Samuel L Jackson and no-one talks about it bc Samuel L Jackson is a fantastic actor and he maximises the writing. Writing competency and acting competency is very important.
The actors/actresses can carry a show/movie so far if bad writing is the main thing. Good writing however carries the movie and makes the job easier on actors and actresses go figure how that logic works lol.
9:02 Vin from Mistborn is a pretty good strong female character also. I'd love to see her either animated or in live action. However, she's in love with... A man! (Gasp!) We can't have that in our modern media!
At least we know that Sanderson won't actually agree to have any of his works adapted unless he's deeply involved with the process, so if it ever happens, it will be good. But last year he said that he'd be surprised if he wasn't filming this year, and he's still not filming, so an adaptation seems less and less likely.
About the "You just need to seize the power within you" comment. That can actually work: just look at The Last Dragon.
Ah yes, cause resisting the urge to punch some dude because he catcalled you is SO much harder than dealing with all the trauma Bruce has been through.
11:50 Goblin Slayer was the specialist about slaying goblins. He didn't keep it to himself so he would always be the best. He used his skill to make sure his friends knew how to use their own abilities in the ideal ways to overcome situations. More importantly he also learned from them.
Those types of characters remind me of generic shounen protags. Everyone critisizes them for being overpowered cardboard cutout twinks that can somehow outmatch all of their adverseries.
And these hollywood writers have just found out about the tropes and don't know why people are critisizing them.
I know what’s going on, the pandemic has made people more and more bitter and less innocent about the world. Well I recommend regaining some of that optimism so that we can love our entertainment again.
This was the video that I discovered Master Samwise with.
He has a very good speaking voice.
Nux and Samwise are a mood
The hulk doesn't change because he loses control he changes because he has multiple personalities and thats why she hulk has full control because she doesn't have a mental problem(split personality).
Spoken like someone who hasn't read the comics. She-hulk is, in a way, another personality to Jen Walter's. She was timid and meek when first introduced, it was when she became she-hulk that her persona was that of a bomb shell woman who could do what she set her mind to while also being more confident in herself. Sure, overtime she could learn to control herself, but it didn't happen at the drop of a hat. Even if she could control, people liked her because she was a character that people enjoyed. MCU she-hulk was just more pandering to a small group of people that don't even read comics or watch these series.
@@grizzakaful i'll admit that i didn't read that much of the comic but i did know of jen's timid personality before she hulk and how she became afterward. Still it doesn't change what i wrote, jen just got a confidence boost that in most cases when a timid person gets power of one sort or another they lose their heads and get arrogant and think they are unstoppable. Jen never had a different persona controling or competing with her, even amadeous (hulkling i think he was called) didn't have a second persona but had way more confidence than he originally had. Bruce on the other hand has varies personalities in his psique that's why there's a maestro, professor hulk, mr fix it, etc. I do agree that she hulk is badly written in the series and the whole control of her strengh was unrealistic as well as many missed oppotunities the writters miss out on developing. I noticed that what i wrote does mislead when i say she has full control but i was refering to her mental state not her powers in itself, she should of had more problems holding a cup or opening doors.
Anyone else notice how most of the points also apply to Tanjiro?
It's true, we DO like strong women, just not badly written OP Mary Sues who can do anything with no effort just because they're awesome don't need no man to save them. We don't want male Mary Sues either.
The problem with todays writing main characters is they are very forced, boring and generic, the MESSAGE embodiment, never fails to dissappoint, and takes a dump on older better characters especially if they are past male haracyers.