Don't forget to check out the RedMagic 9s Pro gaming phone! bit.ly/4bs1bQv **NOTES & CORRECTIONS** - I was 90% of the way through my edit, Googled "star rail hooh" and this theory popped up: www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1c2mq28/honkai_star_rail_theory_hooh_and_the_duality_of/ I'm amazed I missed this in my initial search, so I thought I'd share this. We had a similar idea, but completely different arguments/pairings which I think is really cool! - APPARENTLY "Terminus" is the name for a type of train station. Termin-us... Termin-al... I got to the right answer with the VERY WRONG MATH en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_station#Terminus
@ashikay Looking at the reddit theory and your video, I could see that in some combinations of Aeons you and the reddit theorist managed to think of more than one pair for certain aeons, is it possible that the aeons are all connected in some way? seeing that some paths are very similar and can coexist (example: remembrance and erudition and preservation which has at its center the idea of "preservation" of something, be it knowledge, memory or galaxies.)
ok so i had to really dig for this a fair bit but i remembered reading it so vividly i couldn't afford not to throw this into the pile of evidence , among the pieces of cannon lore there is a particular statement by the game itself that finality/trailblaze is a confirmed pairing of antithesis now i don't know if a single person has mentioned this yet but i couldn't find it online so i'd like to provide this evidence which is, the finality's vision function which allows us to play an event without completing the prerequisit quest actually has this statement about it "this path is antithesis to that of the Trailblaze, upon entering, causality inverts, thus revealing things of the future before one's eyes..." i could not find any captured instance of it unless i dig through someone's live stream and clip it, but instead i managed to find it by using the function in an alt account (i understand clicking image links on the internet is not the wisest choice and thus i'll leave the following chopped up url, "im gur. com/ a/NS3APAU" you may chose to check it or not, either way i hope this has helped ) i've been thinking about the aeon pairings for a while so i am glad to see you touch up on them.
@@guystridsigne2691 interesting writeup, it's a matter of perspective so i can't argue much, except Equilibrium being between Hunt and Abundance. Equilibrium should be between everything by thay logic because it's a balance of everything.
The Nihility and Beauty pairing hits me emotionally when you realize Kiana (from HI3) has a mission of "protecting all Beauty in the world" and Raiden Mei responded to this with "my world means Nothing without you"
this reminds me of how acheron texts us with something along the lines of, "may we appreciate the beauty of this world on a larger vista" which sounds so much like "may all the beauty be blessed" to me, like come on
i personally view elation as the pursuit of ones own joy and entertainment above all else. we know that the masked fools can and do betray each other to get what they want, but not all of them have a desire to sow chaos, they just want to have fun how they each individually want. rather than harmony vs elation being "harmony vs discord", i think a better way to describe it is "happiness for all vs happiness for oneself"
I think Elation is just joy (so like happiness on a higher level that you can consciously feel) but I can also see myself pathstriding Harmony as well as Elation so if what you said is true it will be the greatest happiness for everyone
This is why Elation I and especially II in Simulated Universe Swarm Disaster is my favorite, Aha knows you're not the true Akivili and even breaks the 4th wall causing Herta and Ruan Mei to be stupefied. I have a feeling TB will get an Elation path based on FuA Attacks (Involving none other than TB favorite thing; Trashcans)
Fun fact, when attempting to access an event in Star Rail without clearing the pre-requisite story quests (such as Apocalyptic Shadow,) the game warns you that, roughly, "to gain knowledge of the future rejects the Path of the Trailblaze and is the domain of Finality." I wish I'd taken a screenshot of the message in full the one time I read it, because I cannot find anyone else online who shared it.
yep, i saw that message too. plus i believe jade said something to firefly in the most recent quest that seemed to imply that the stellaron hunters follow the finality! which makes sense since they seem like the "opposite" faction of the astral express. plus, elio is destiny's slave because he can look into the future - and terminus always knows the future since they travel backward in time... could he be an emanator of finality? it seems to me like he at least has some sort of powers from the finality
The feature was introduced in v2.3 as "Finality's Vision". This is the verbatim in-game prompt of Finality's Vision, at least it was back in v2.3: "This path is the antithesis to that of the Trailblaze. Upon entering, causality inverts, thus revealing things of future before one's eyes."
@@_aster_ You're basically just stating canon info, lol. The only part of this not fully confirmed is Elio being an emanator, and even that is practically confirmed.
The last pairing makes a lot of sense, especially when you take into consideration that a "Terminus" is the exact definition of a station at the very end of a railway line. Only there do trains end their journey
you can think of it as the favorite pairing of mihoyo, origin and finality. Trailblaze or origin, the start of OUR journey, reaching towards the end, and finality, reaching towards the beginning. Mihoyo loves samsaras, the cycle of beginning and end.
When Acheron and the Galaxy Ranger are talking about her resisting the nihility he says she has a bit of the color red in her, Argenti entire pallet is gold silver and bright red... and both have flower motifs
agree, also when the speech Acheron gives to the Mc about the Most ferent source of light must be behind/beyong nihility i thought Idrilla must be there or maybe is that source of light itself that she talks about, that's Also why Argenti Does the suicidal/ impossible feats that brings him closer to it (maybe thats why he had access to taht place and took adventurine out). maybe the red of existance she clings to is whats left of idrilla or smthing like that who knows
A few things: • I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed that the path of Erudition and Enigmata clashed as opposites to each other. • I also agree that Elation does feel mislabeled since Aha loves to create chaos where he goes. • 19:02 This actually further explains why the Annihilation Gang hasn’t received Nanook’s blessing, because they don’t fundamentally understand the Destruction’s will to bring about entropy. The Annihilation Gang have personal motives/desires for their acts of destruction which is seen an impure, as stated in the Data Bank.
- Yeah, in Gold and Gear, Mythus basically stated they screwed up stuff to specifically mess with Nous calculation because they don't believe in pre-determined future. This is basically confirmed. - I disagree. I don't even think Elation in its essence is chaos. It's just doing whatever that make YOU happy. Giovanni just create silly games, he doesn't really create chaos or harming anyone. Harmony is doing whatever that makes EVERYONE happy. The result can be the same, trying to make yourself happy can make others happy, and trying to pleased everyone can ended up pleasing no one, just the intention that matters. You can kinda see this in Aha themselves. They was curious, so they disguised as a Nameless and experienced what it's like. That's great. And when they was bored, they blew it up. This seems like random chaos sowing, but it's not. It's just mean they are the embodiment of human fickleness tuned up to 100. We can find amusement in the most random harmless things to the most despicable shit, so they are too. And when they find something amusing, they will do it without fail.
also about Propagation, Abundance and Permanence the reason they are so similar is because Abundance and Propagation took a part of the path Permanence to ascend
I agree Aha/Xipe are the opposites, but I don't think Elation is mislabeled. If you think about it, Aha and the Masked Fools are all about their own enjoyment. Meanwhile, Harmony is all about the collective welfare. So you can think about it as self vs. all
my personal crack theory is that aha is the one who named THEIR path because it's 1) entirely in character for them and 2) no one in their right mind BESIDES aha and THEIR followers would call it the elation
Wait the Beauty/ Nihility as counterparts thing is genius Argenti and Acheron are my HSR mains so I’ve been reading a lot of the in game text about their paths. The idea of the Beauty being a path where one sees the purpose in all things vs the Nihility’s pointlessness in all things has definitely occurred to me, but I hadn’t been thinking about it in terms of Equilibrium. One things that also strikes me is that for Knights of Beauty, those who fall off the path of Beauty and gain a narrow view of the world/ have their sense of purpose distorted lose their sense of self and become monsters, which strikes me as kind of similar to what happens to Self Annihilators, also losing their sense of self and returning to Nihility
I JUST POSTED A COMMENT ABOUT THIS, I'm pasting it here for your reading convenience!! Nihility and Beauty being opposites makes the most sense, but it REALLY doesn't paint a hopeful future for my guy Boothill. I'm afraid he'll be a "departed" guest in the near future, when we finally come face to face with the Stonehearts' big wigs. Yeah, he's obviously been at the very end of his wits tiptoeing the brink of Nihility for a while if he willingly turned his body into a walking weapon for the sole purpose of destroying Oswaldo Schneider and is drinking jet fuel just to feel something. Being buddies with Aventurine's self destructive ass is REALLY worrying, too. But it does give me a little hope how they kept connecting him to Argenti in Penacony... Metaphorically, that could mean he is holding onto more than just his Hunt, specially with his color scheme being MAINLY black, white and gray with just a touch of red. All that plus him being a Galaxy Ranger, it makes sense that Acheron is low-key keeping an eye on him... Does she fear him becoming an Emanator of Nihility once his Hunt is inevitably over?
That's why I've been thinking if the reason why Acheron has not completely given in to the effects of Nihility, is because she believes in beauty. I mean the whole Acheron's monologue in the hidden ending cutscene "All those things beautiful before, are still so now." and about blooming at the end of Nihility could point to that. Or maybe it's just my crack theory 😅
@@cynthtnyc this is so clever I never thought about Boothill in thr context of the Nihility but it makes so much sense with the stuff you pointed out… can Argentihill save Boothill from self annihilation lmao
Crap You just reminded me that Acheron color for meaning is red, and Argenti is literally covered in red. Maybe red is the symbolism for beauty while black and white is the symbolism for nihility.
The pairing between Permanence and Rememberance reminds me a lot of Raiden makoto and ei, Long achieve eternity through reincarnation while Fulli makes worlds memories eternal, makoto see eternity in peoples everchanging dreams while ei see eternity in literal sense. Basically dynamic vs static, change vs stagnant, fluidity vs solidified
ngl, Idrila's path seeing the beauty in everything explains why the faction that seeks to revive THEM is called the "Mirror Holders". If your philosophy is to see the beauty in everything, that would also mean seeing the beauty in yourself in the mirror.
I think *Trailblaze* vs *Finality* is a lot simpler. It's the *journey* vs *destination.* It's the *search for experience* vs *already knowing how it all ends.* It's the going *forward in time* vs going *backwards in time.* 2.3 Literally calls out that Finality is the opposite of Trailblaze too.
The game also calls out them being opposites when it gives you the option to do game content before finishing the prerequisite (ie current) patch. I can't recall the exact phrasing.
8:20 This could explain why Ouroboros disappeared after the swarm, with the "deactivation" of the propagation, the voracity also went into stasis to balance things out
This could also explain why Nanook gazed upon the Trailblazer so early on in the story. It's not because the Trailblazer was following the will of destruction but because their very existence, with the stellaron in their body, generates an overwhelming amount of entropy, greatly accelerating the heat death of the universe. Which is Nanook's main goal. And also why Nanook has not gazed upon the annihilation gang. Because they mindlessly destroy stuff not in the name of destruction or to create entropy, but usually for their own gain.
Finality Aeon is called Terminus and name is derived from Terminal or Terminal station. WOW this analogy makes so much sense. Your explanation of Trailblaze and Finality explain so much of my confusion 😲 regarding the relationship between the Astral express and Stellaron hunter.
I was looking for a similar comment ! As a French person it makes even more sense because a terminus is LITTERALLY what we call the last station on a metro / train line
13:25 it inspires 'happiness' because youre free to do what you want. Literally. Pure hedonism. I think that in-game description on a loading screen even said so much. Thats why I think using a word elation is better than 'happiness' because elation means youre basically so over it like youre high on something, its in the absolute. Its not just happiness , its set on overdrive its like mania to always pursue only pleasure for yourself and getting high off it
Thank you for mentioning the gnosticism themes of the aeons, It amazes me how little gnosticism theories exist in the hoyoverse fandom, considering both genshin and star rail take a lot of inspiration of gnosticism such as; the aeons, archons, gnosis etc.
@@TheJH1015 Hell there's even gnosticism references in HI3 as well but they are subtle, Hoyo just seems to be more open about It in genshin than any other of their games.
There is a massive abundance of gnostisim theories in Geshin. It is definitely not lacking them. HI3 has an issue with being not as popular of a game, so it has less players and therefore less theories.
It's interesting to me that we've got March and Dan Heng on the express specifically. It's been constantly speculated that March has some relationship to The Remembrance/Fuli in some way. Meanwhile Dan Heng, by virtue of Imbibitor Lunae is one of Long's Scions.
i like how you have the elation paired with order/harmony as something like order and chaos, but i feel like another great duality for the pairing is more like the self vs the whole. personally, i think something that describes aha's and the masked fool's actions is more like hedonism. they create chaos yes, but only because it amuses them. it serves as their own entertainment. they act on whatever makes them the most happy, even things at others' expense. on the flip side, there's harmony, which is all about connecting with others. harmonic characters care for everyone, even making self sacrifices to uphold everyone else. they act for the good of everyone, not just themselves. i don't think that the mirroring themes are limited to just something like individualism vs collectivism, but i do think it adds to how these two paths are great mirrors of each other! not only is it the self vs the whole, but also chaos vs order and discord vs harmony.
Discord and Harmony, hmm where have I heard those two words together before. Someone who takes pleasure in causing chaos for the sake of entertainment. Hmm, where has that appeared before.
I absolutely LOVE the contrasts of Nihility and Beauty. To think about how Acheron rejects the Nihility and blooms with RED flowers when she uses her "burst" when red is a color that has so many associations with life-generating energy and is also the same color that is all over Argenti... She's fighting her fate so hard. Not to mention that thinking about beauty as seeing the meaning in all things makes me love Argenti even more.
Rememberence and permanence to be opposites surprised me, but I think you cooked! The Material vs Immaterial actually makes so much sense, especially with the memokeepers having given up their physical forms to be able to freely traverse memories.
@@mariaantonia-op8qc I think Remembrance and Permanence both share the common theme of “Eternity” Remembrance being literal Eternity while Permanence is “adapting” to the way of the world
One thing of note: Ena the Order and Aha the Elation also have designs which are completely opposite to another. Ena the Order is a giant machine made from several mechanical parts arranged in a way that looks like a person watching over a pocket-space, but it also has a giant eye glaring directly at the planets and Ena herself. Her mask looks distraught, stressed almost. Aha the Elation is a cocophany of shapes, each looking discordant and out of place from one another. Sort of like a collection of toys left by a child on a carpet. But if you look closely, you can see a faint silhouette of a person, Turned away from it. The masks looking happy. One of the Aeons is a humanoid shape being looked at by a single inhuman object. The other is a humanoid figure looking away from an inhuman collection of objects. One other thing of note is that we don't really know which parts of the two Aeons are the actual Aeons. I've seen people theorize that Ena is the eye itself with the doll posing as a "mask" of sorts, but i wonder if Aha itself is the person, similarly masking itself as a pile of toys. Furthermore, both of the Aeon's color schemes mirror one another as well. Ena being blues, golds and some purples with Aha being reds, oranges and blacks. By the way the video is great. I just had an "Aha!"(get it?) Moment just now and couldn't sit down without sharing my thoughts first.
Aha is the person. THEIR physical form is a pun in Chinese, as THEY have a completely awful reputation, actively demolishing really, but the term for reputation is the same one as "face" in English. So Aha literally has no face. I think this is mentioned somewhere in the game proper, but I'd have to read through the data bank again.
One thing that actually supports the "the Astral Express is a clock" theory is just the way the Astral Express works. It is said that Akivil managed to find a way to move through spacetime faster than light to reach new destinations faster, which sounds absolutely absurd since the Astral Express is clearly a percetible moving object. Obviously you could make a point for some fantasy sci-fi reason like some form of distortion of spacetime that Akivil came across and managed to engineer into the train or whatever and it wouldn't be wrong since HSR is a fanatsy sci-fi game after all, but what I like to imagine is that the Astral Express is actually just one big clock that can be manually set. Like you skip ahead on a clock, and everything moves way faster until a specific point is reached. That's the way the Astral Express skips ahead through the universe without actually messing anything up, technically they aren't really present when things happen because it's just incomprehensibly fast and has already passed everything on the tracks before it could interact in any way. Which again supports the "Trailblaze is the opposite of Finality" theory, since the trailblaze is not only wishing to and experiencing the future, but also directly jumping to it, always on a journey, whereas Finality comes from the farthest future and moves to the past. I mean, Akivili literally ascended to Aeonhood because of their will to find the ENDPOINT of the Tree of Existence. If that isn't confirmation then idk what is.
the one thing i like is that Destruction and Preservation are "linked" (though very loosely) together by a game mechanics coincidence: the MC Type while in those paths are Physical and Fire, respectively; In SU, the damage type their Resonance cause are Fire and Physical, respectively. Though this means absolutely nothing, i always found it neat that MC kinda "opposed" the Paths preferred element 😅😅 Also is funny that when MC was under Nanook Gaze for the first time, it was bc they were trying to protect March, and when MC was under Qlipoth GAze for the first time, they were trying to stop/destroy Cocolia's plan...
That's kinda interesting. It should be noted that both were in situations where they were fighting an emanator figure and had to oppose the path against them to follow it, protecting to destroy destruction, and destroying protection to protect Belabog.
It also mirrors Genshin where the 2 first elements are the opposite elements. In Genshin, traveler gets Geo and Anemo first (sky and land) In Wuwa similarly the two first elements are Spectro and Havoc (light and darkness)
The Trailblazer is both Trailblazing the alpha the past and beginning, and Finality the omega the future and the end,we will ascended to represents the middle,the present
A fair number of HI3 players instantly twitched when we first heard about the existence and nature of Terminus, the Aeon of Finality; I don’t think HI3 is directly dealing with Terminus but I could easily envision The Cocoon being some kind of Emanator of Finality, acting in the same sense as Acheron to Nihility: seeking to defy the very path they follow. Acheron seeks to find some kind of meaning and purpose in existence, and The Cocoon has been resetting Earth over and over, trying to create a version of humanity that can withstand “The Finality”. Add to that the very similar appearance of The Cocoon and Terminus and the fact that they’re literally in a shared multiverse, plus the decaying and corrosive effects of Honkai energy on those who can’t withstand it, and you start to see a lot of hinted connections.
I really like the comparison of Preservation with Conservation/Transmutation. Diamond creating the Cornerstone from portions of Qlipoth’s flesh can also allude to this comparison.
Speaking of Diamond, he likey the only Ipc head who actually follows the path of perseverance. The other Ipc, like Oswaldo Schneider, follows the path of voracity
@@Josh-qt5zi Their actions follows the path of Voracity but what they are thinking they are following the philosophy of Preservation exactly what governments do in IRL
When I look at Destruction, I see preservation because "Destruction eventually will take down preservation." The icon of destruction is a tower that's breaking down and covered in flames. It also applies for Trailblaze and Finality. "Terminus goes backwards in time" while Trailblaze keeps going until the journey reaches to *finality*
Nitpick: I don't think Nanook is actually seeding the world with Stellerons. I think this is people in-universe getting cause and effect mixed up. The Animatter Legion aren't seeding the Stellerons, they're following them.
The broad implication is that the Stellarons have something to do with Nanook but after watching this video, with the way that Qlipoth 'removes' Tayzzyronth's concept, and the fact that Sunday almost becomes an Aeon during the 2.3 bossfight, I'm beginning to wonder if stellarons, or some form/variant of them, are required in the process of becoming an Aeon. This would mean that stellarons, in some form, predate Nanook because like half the Aeons ascended before Nanook ever did.
So this video sparked a discussion between me and my bf, to try and figure out our own Aeon pairings TLDR, this is what we ended up with: - Equilibrium - Abundance / Hunt - Erudition / Enigmata - Trailblaze / Finality - Voracity / Preservation - Nihility / Elation - Beauty / Remembrance - Propagation / Harmony - Permanence / Destruction I'll go over our reasoning for these pairings, but the main aspects of those pairings is the idea that they're 2 sides of the same coin, that one concept cannot exist without the other. The Hunt cannot exists without the Abundance, the Enigmata can't exist without the Erudition, and there'd be no reason for the Abundance and Erudition to exist in the first place if there was no suffering and death, and no mystery to solve. I'll skip the Equilibrium, the Abundance and Hunt, and the Erudition and Enigmata since you already went over those pairings *The Trailblaze and Finality*: The Journey and the Destination You already went over this pairing in your video, but I wanted to add that the last stop of a train is called a Terminus, the same as the Finality's name. And considering the Astral Express is a train on a never-ending journey, it makes sense that these 2 would be paired together. The Trailblaze is about experiencing the journey, while the Finality is about the destination, where the tracks end. *The Voracity and Preservation*: the Abyss and the Firmament So the thing is, these two Aeons are already presented as a pair of enemies in lore. Qlipoth is building the Subspace Crystalline Barrier to prevent their enemy, the Voracity, from devouring the living worlds. Meanwhile, the Voracity believes that everything is destined to the sea of void, to the darkness within their mouth. Both of their roles are taken from biblical inspirations. Ouroboros, the Voracity, is clearly a reference to Tehom, the abyss/primeval sea of chaos that God parted to create the world, using the Firmament, a crystalline dome that keeps the waters out, which sounds a lot like what Qlipoth is building to keep the Voracity from devouring the world, to prevent the world from being drowned in the waters of chaos. Also, Ouroboros is a Dusk Leviathan, and the Leviathan in biblical lore is often associated with primordial chaos and the sea. *The Nihility and Elation*: Unfeeling and Feeling So the logic for this one is based around how the Hunt and the Enigmata ascended. Both of them ascended in direct response to another Aeon, and I think the same thing happened with Aha and the Nihility. If you read the Masked Fools' parable about Aha's ascension, it says that they climbed atop the Tree of Existence and then seemingly experienced a sort of existential dread at the cold, meaninglessness of the universe. It makes it sound like Aha was becoming a Self-Annihilator, but rejected the Nihility once they saw that baby fall and cry, and they just laughed, which caused their ascension. I think this direct rejection of another Aeon leading into ascension definitely seems to imply a duality, similar to how Lan and Mythus ascended. Beyond that, it seems like both Aeons tackle the question of "if the universe has no meaning, what should you do?". The Nihility's answer is that you should give up, isolate and rot away until the end comes, meanwhile the Elation's answer is to find joy in day to day life, afterall, the universe is a big joke so why not laugh at it? Also, the Elation is not just about joy, but the full spectrum of emotions (joy, anger, sorrow, disgust, fear, etc.), which contrasts with the Nihility's unfeeling numbness. *The Beauty and Remembrance*: Experiencing and Remembering This one was suggested by my bf and it actually makes a lot of sense! The Beauty is about experiencing the beauty of the moment, while the Remembrance is about keeping the memory of that experience alive forever. Also, both Aeons' loading screen texts talk about how intelligent lifeforms define existence, with the Beauty's view being about the material world, while the Remembrance states that intelligence and memory are the proof of existence, aka something immaterial/spiritual. The Beauty experiences all things, and the Remembrance records the memory of all those experiences. Interestingly, Idrila's disappearance means that she's only a memory. This brings me to the Beauty faction known as the Mirror Holders, who have shards of a mirror that can project a person's view of beauty into reality. What's relevant here is the fact that it's a mirror, and Fuli has a lot of associations with mirrors and reflective crystals. As an additional note, there's a japanese myth about two sister goddesses, Konohanasakuya-hime and Iwanaga-hime. The first one is the beautiful goddess of cherry blossoms and transient beauty, while her sister is the ugly goddess of stone and longevity. A guy named Ninigi was offered Iwanaga-hime's hand in marriage, which would have resulted in humans living long but monotonous lives, but he rejected her and instead chose her sister, Konohanasakuya-hime, leading to humans living short but beautiful lives. I feel like this could be a potential inspiration, with the Beauty's association with a flower (roses) and the Remembrance's association with stones (crystals) and the idea that memories are eternal. *The Propagation and Harmony*: Division and Unification The main idea for this pairing is that they're sorta similar concepts done in opposite ways. The Propagation ascended out of a desire to not be the last of its kind anymore, creating a self-replicating monster of an Aeon. One who becomes many. The Harmony is a collective of people who decided to unite and cooperate together. Many who become one. To add to this idea, they're the only two Aeons that have been referred to as plural, with the Harmony outright described as a "plural Aeon", and the Propagration said to be more accurately called "Tayzzyronths" (with an s) rather than simply "Tayzzyronth". Also, both are known to spread their influence, which adds to the "two sides of the same coin" aspect. Endless expansion of population vs unification of many different populations into one singular hivemind. *The Permanence and Destruction*: Continuation and Extinction The main idea behind Permanence is the continuation of bloodlines, aka a constant cycle of rebirth, rather than immortality. The idea of legacy being important to this concept. Meanwhile, the Destruction views civilizations as a cancer upon the world that needs to be erased. They go so far as to create wishing stars that feed off of the wishes of civilizations to bring about their downfall and total extinction. If we view civilization as a form of legacy, the legacy of its founding people, then the Destruction makes sense as its opposite. And in a way, if Permanence is a cyclical existence, it needs Destruction to bring about the end of the previous cycle so a new one can begin. I hope this makes sense! Coming up with these kinds of theories is always really fun!
That point about the Elation is actually pretty interesting… I could see it as the idea of losing all desire for anything including life itself, vs being overwhelmed by your own desires, leading to a constant chasing of pleasure, entertainment and personal benefit with no regard for anything else. Both stemming from the same perspective on the meaninglessness of the universe, as you described.
11:30 On the topic of the Remembrance and the Permanence, I like to think of them as a “Change vs Unchanging” dichotomy. Fuli as Unchanging is easy, memories don’t change, they turn the dynamic nature of the universe into static depictions of reality. Assuming a perfect memory, what has already happened will never change. But why would “The Permanence” be about change? You see, the funny thing about Long is that, despite being called “The Permanence” THEIR path is about change, or rather, about how some things remain the same DESPITE changing. In the “Exodus of the Five Dragons” MCT, the two characters are talking about Long, and are trying to figure out what the path of Permanence is all about using questions and answers (more like trying to teach us): Q: Is it about the Permanence of our lives? A: No, that's what Yaoshi is all about, THEY even warn us about the dangers of seeking eternal life. The Permanence is not about immortality. Q: Is it about the continuation of bloodlines? A: No, a relatively large population of the Vidyadhara might live in the Xianzhou ships, but the character says that most are dispersed throughout the universe, living in solitude. The Permanence is not about bloodlines. “...in the vastness of the universe, the rise and fall of one race is of little consequence.” Q: Is it about the Permanence of society to: “...ensure the safety of the universe”? A: No, that’s more of a Qlipoth thing. They say: “Imbibitor Lunae forsook his oath, causing a state of great disorder. The high elders, too, bear mortal frailties, their heavy burdens ultimately becoming the shackles which bind them.” Q: So, in the end, they ask, what is it about then? A: “As the sun and moon rise and fall, the world undergoes continuous change. So, the concept of "stability" is meaningless. Only by comprehending and aligning with the way of the world... can one's path lead to everlasting existence.” The Permanence is about change. The universe is a dynamic system in constant evolution. In order to exist forever, one must change and evolve along with it. You may never cross the same river twice, the water under your feet is always different. Yet, it remains the same river. You are not the person you were 10 years ago. Yet, you remain YOU. To exist not as a fixed thing, but as an ever-changing being, is the path of Permanence. That’s the answer to existence that Long found. You can actually see that in the Vidyadhara, like the quest about the guy that falls in love with the same woman in every reincarnation and is always jealous of the previous one. They might be different people (with different lives, jobs, interests, personalities and memories), but some things continue the same. The Permanence of change, one could say. I fully believe that Long didn't just die, but rather CHANGED into something else that's not a dragon (or maybe evolved would be a better way to put it?)
I feel there's a lot easier way to think about why Trailblaze and Finality are opposites. Trailblaze is all about changing oneself through the experiences of travel, or even just by the experiences of interacting with other people. While Finality is all about "the end" the aeon's travelling backwards in time trying everything to run from the end of all things. Put simply; Trailblaze is the path of "The Journey" while Finality is the path of "The Destination", which similarly to what you said Ashikai, paints the Nameless and the Hunters in a very different light than the game does, in fact, it paints them in a similar light to what OUR EXPERIENCES with the Stellaron Hunters has painted them. They're not these "villains out to destroy the universe, take what they want and leave disaster in their wake" it's actually quite the opposite, they're trying to fix things, trying to leave things for the better, but they're just not focusing on the better of the "right now" they're focusing on the better of the "Soon to come" they're making waves and causing chaos, making sure everything turns out okay when stuff hits the fan, while we're picking up their pieces, putting things back together. The Stellaron Hunters and the Nameless don't COUNTER each other; they COMPLIMENT each other. Kafka, Sam, Silver Wolf, (I have no Idea how Blade's in this group, I love him but WHAT are you doing?) and Elio have a BIG script they're making DAMN SURE plays out the way they want it to, it from day 1 it's been obvious they want GOOD things to happen. "At the end of your journey, when you face Nanook, the Destruction, you will need all the help you can get" EVERYTHING they've been doing? It's trying to GET PEOPLE INDEBTED TO US, so that if the Nameless say "Jump", the universe says "How high?", and meanwhile, we're picking up the pieces of their chaos, of the Luofu who was running around like a chicken with it's head cut off, until Kafka pointed at us, effectively, (Which ever since Jing Yuan and Fu Xian have been working a LOT more eye-to-eye, as if they've swapped into "Stuff just got real" mode), and Belabog is inarguably in a better place, though not derived from the Hunters actions.
You can connect EVERY path to a philosophy. Hedonism is Elation, Nihility is nihility, preservation is stoicism, harmony is epikureism (I think), beauty is optimism (probably smth higher), remembrance is platonism, finality is catastrophism. Every single path is connected to philosophy
Oh, also Trailblazer was confirmed in the last patch to actually be watched by Finality Aeon. Those times when we got visions from the future was it's blessing working
The only time it happened was when we receive Nanook's gaze no? And what's still weird to me is that Sampo's scene. How can we dream about him when he isn't connected to Stellaron?
@@jerryeljeremy7790 Elation has the ability to break the fourth wall. Sampo and Sparkle isn't talking to the Trailblazer, they're talking to YOU, the player. Aha also knows they're not real in Simulated Universe.
@@nebulous1047 This is starting to sound like Undertale/Deltarune stuff ngl. Really cool that HSR took inspiration from Sans and Jevil. I assume Trailblazer is HSR Kris then.
im extremely torn, because the enigmata and the erudition have a clear connection, but the way that history fictionologists make a point of covering up history and changing it even in the minds of people leads me to form a connection between mythus and fuli (even moreso since mythus was born from inside the garden of recollection). history fictionologists remind me of cremators that discard memories not for the sake of just forgetting, but preventing history from repeating itself. fuli's entire mission is preserving memories to prepare for the next cycle of the universe, and from what ive gathered ingame, thats the exact opposite of what the followers of the enigmata want
Imo it might get explained later why Erudition and Enigmata are opposites and why Remembrance and Enigmata are not once we discover what Enigmata really means, and my bet is that its actually imagination/creativity/subjectivity. Since Enigmata is clearly not (or atleast not just) about people forgetting about the past, Mythus clearly has a goal and whatever that goal is its the complete opposite of Erudition since the beef between the two is more emphasized then Remembrance and Enigmata which seem to actually sound like allies with how Emenators of Enigmata and Remembrance have similar powers according to penacony, and how it actually feels like Mythus is an offshoot of Fuli. And that they might actually be more similar then we thought. My guest is that HF and Mythus don't actually destroy history, they alter it or make allegories/riddles about it to better preserved it like how im GI the only way to prevent an information from getting deleted from imrminsul is by turning that data into a fictional novel, story, poem, riddle, allegory, something Mythus and there followers like to do. Maybe HSR has away to alter everyone's memory similar to Genshins and erase even memories preserved by the Remembrance and therefore Mythus and the fictions, stories, riddles them and there followers create are a way to hijack it.
One theory I’ve held onto about the paths in the Star Rail universe, is that all the paths of the various Aeons all lead to one place, and that is Finality, and then get rebirthed from there in possibly new form, in an endless loop. This theory is entirely based on how Honkai Impact 3rd’s Finality worked. It created Herrschers from its own aspects which then had dominion over said aspects of the Finality. However, I never really considered the Trailblaze. And now that I’ve watched this theory video, I’ve come to realize something. In Honkai Impact 3rd there is a Herrscher which existed outside the Finality, called Origin. They were, in a strange poetic irony, kinda antithesis of their own respective names, Origin leading to the end, while Finality being the beginning. So, what if the Path of the Trailblaze is the Star Rail universe’s Origin equivalent? The Finality first creates the universe in its rebirth, and from that the Aeons and their Paths are formed, and The Trailblaze is a sort of guide to the last destination, leading all paths back to Finality in the end, where a new universe will be reborn, and the cycle begins anew.
@@GolgothianSylex huh, from what I understood, cuz of Elysia and her own statements, the Origin was a separate thing, at least until she went into Finality to give the Herrschers of CE a bit of humanity, which in turn caused origin to be a part of finality. A difference in interpretation I suppose.
@@AnArtistInAVoid Herrscher authority is the mirror of Finality, and we knew no other beings of that level and behaviour besides Sa, but it never went to Earth. Also, Elysia actually helped Finality to achieve its goals, not the other way around. Maybe there are explanations to why Elysia is considered an anomaly(also, need to look up - this "fact" could be made up by community), but I think it refers to Elysia being brought into the world without a human host and with complete consciousness and human-like self-awareness, which true Herrschers and Cocoon lack.
@@GolgothianSylex it’s been a bit since I played Honkai Impact, so correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t it actually that Elysia was born as a Herrscher, fell in love with humanity when she was living in some middle of the forest village near her birthplace, went on a journey around the world to witness the wonders of humanity, loving everything along the way, including how evil humans can be, joined MANTIS and became a Flame Chaser when she found out about Honkai, then at the later end of the story, after the corruption nuked the world I think, Elysia did some confusing plan where she acted as a twist villain, and had Kevin come and kill her so she could go into the Cocoon to manipulate future Herrschers to have the humanity that she had, giving the Herrschers of CE the ability to fight for Humanity, which is how Kiana, Mei, and Bronya could gain Herrscher powers without (mostly, except for Void) going insane and going on a murderous rampage, and how Senti could end up becoming a good guy. That’s how I understood the events of Elysia’s life and death as it was stated in the game.
@@AnArtistInAVoid Kevin didn't kill her, first of all, she simply died. Second - Ego given by Elysia to Herrschers is just a choice. Sirin was actually a free person - she simply chose destruction, and regretted it in the end of Second Eruption. True Herrschers of PE couldn't choose anything - their personality was taken away by Cocoon projections, human flesh didn't manage to contain it even with the help of Imaginary. Elysia is an anomaly in that regard, as I said previously. But it's a human view - maybe Cocoon is a Shakespearean monkey that managed to write Hamlet, or constructor of Chinese room(thought experiment) that somehow managed to break the concept of said room. But it is the root of all anomalies nonetheless, reincarnation of all things in the world, as game has put it.
Its wild cause i thought that nihility and harmony were opposites bc of acheron’s juxtaposition with penacony, but the pairs you laid out here make way more sense 😮 Beauty makes way more sense now and your explanation of rememberance permanence and preservation really makes them feel more distinct
The part about one Aeon ascending to balance out another is also adds to the Preservation/Destruction dynamic. The IPC spans several galaxies, with so much reach and uncontested power. It stands to reason that their biggest obstacle would come about from a faction hell bent on annihilating life wherever they contact it, the Antimatter Legion.
I'm genuinely amazed at Ashikai's goal to use the pronunciation closest to what the source language would be. Argenti being Latin for silver and all that
@@batsybatsybats_ i can't say if it's the case here or not, but i think often times it's just her not knowing how to pronounce things. I believe she's mentioned a few times how she just struggles with some names. Plus, argent is also silver in French, where we say ar-gen-tee
@@batsybatsybats_if that was the intention then power to her but knowing that the English dub is consistent with Argenti’s name (unlike some with Seele being kinda inconsistent with “Zeele” and “Seala” due to HI3rd etc) it’s a little noticeable to me personally
@@Yuki_Ika7 it is , iirc Mihoyo give that company about 60 millions dollars for the research . Kinda surprised to see CEO of a game company have a vision for human future like this rather than just purely for profit .
The explanation for Nanook and Qlipoth truly surprised me, and I find it very interesting. Perhaps that's why THEY are both associated with fire since fire is heat and heat is the simplest form of energy in the context of matter (hence the term "heat death"), and that's the energy they are both fighting over.
Ashikai I really appreciate your videos, especially this kind of topic: HSR Lore! I haven't fully understood all of them yet but it tickles my brain and it's an enjoyable video to watch! Thank you!
16:28 Extracted their (second)concept, I think I know exactly what that means, Tazzyronth was originally from the path of permanence but when long fell, Tazzyronth disected a part of the path of permanence to form the path of propagation and ascended to aeonhood, so qlipoth extracted their second concept which would be the propagation so that no one can follow it's path after Tazzyronth and the Swarm got sealed. But that's just my idea onthe last part.
There was an easier way to summarize the relationship between the trailblaze and the finality: The trailblaze is the path of moving forward, the finality is the path of moving backwards.
Also Trailblaze represents the past and beginning the alpha ,Finality represents the furture,the end the omega,and the mc Trailblazer represents both they are the middle the present everything is up to our choice,they will ascended to Aeonhood what Eilo had in mind
Trailblazers care most about the journey, whereas Finality people only care about the destination. The Nameless seem to care more about the process of how you do things, sometimes taking worse results to help do something properly, whereas The Stelleron Hunter are going through the motions to get the ending they want, dealing with the downsides of the process and sticking to the script regardless of their situation.
The connection between Harmony and Elation reminds me of Robin and Sparkle being a counterpart of eachother. Robin is a performer and Sparkle, as seen in her trailer, was (and still technically is) a performer, but they both went down onto different paths. Robin being shown as a bird inside a cage and Sparkle's theme includes flying koi fish.
The point about Qlipoth being conversation of energy hit me like a truck considering Jade’s stoneheart power is literally converting peoples dreams to reality by taking something from them in equal exchange, a literal metaphysical conversion. I bet with the other stoneheart powers you could draw these same conclusions in some way
Interesting to see a video on a theory I've done! Though here, the pairings are much better than what I've thought up. Equilibrium being a matchmaker Path, instead paired by itself, makes a lot of sense. Trailblaze/Finality being opposites was confirmed canon in recent patches as well. Though I am disappointed that you failed to mention that Mythus ascended to _directly counter_ Nous' Moments. It's like. the one canon thing to this opposite pairing. It is not just "known" and "unknown" but "knowing too much can mean fate becomes predetermined". I also find it interesting you bring up Order no longer constituting the equilibrium HooH desires. I did not think that through on my pairings and initially paired Order with Beauty as per process of elimination. Lastly, a pitfall a lot of theories like these make is not considering the time of when an Aeon ascends. It's very clear with things like the Swarm Disaster, Nous' ascension with Moments, and Destruction and its Stellarons that Equilibrium is not ALWAYS present. A balance is not always guaranteed unless everything is always *_Orderly_* and that is definitely not what Equilibrium is. So Aeons ascending always tip the balance all the time. I would even go as far to say that currently, the universe is _not_ in Equilibrium. Because if it was, why the hell are we going to face Nanook? Wouldn't that screw up Equilibrium? Then the only reason we're fated to do that is because it is a part of HooH's Equilibrium for the Destruction to eventually cease at the end of our journey.
For Permanence I believe that it's actually explained that Lan believes in the Permanence of bloodline or Legacy, when he was alive it was said that the Viddyahara couldn't reincarnate like they do now, and they could procreate. It was only recently that they lose that ability and got their reincarnation cycles.
I'm pretty sure that it's explicitly mentioned that Akivili travelled the cosmos to connect civilizations! Sampo as a hinted Masked Fool doesn't like causing chaos, instead trying to create laughter and smiles which would divert The Elation.
Masked Fools are hedonistic, seeking to do things that amuse them for the sake of it. Sampo likes stealing and scamming people out of money as seen in Belabog, but that just be a mask he puts on there given his 4th wall cutscene. It's possible that with his 4th wall awareness he had a Monika DDLC moment, but has solidified what he wants to be "playing my role the best I can". He still causes chaos in the museum side quest among other things.
You mentioned at the start that HooH meddles to balance the Aeons, so what if they're not necessarily opposites but just that, balances. That would mean that Permanence and Remembrance are additive to create a balanced whole. Permanence forgoes the immaterial for the material. Great. Now there's all this immaterial stuff that's forgotten. So, there's Remembrance that takes the immaterial. or vice versa.
The explanation of the Destruction as entropy finally brings some sense to our Trailblazer drawing Nanook's gaze. Nanook sees the Trailblazer as a catalyst for change and disorder in the universe, the same as the stellaron inside of them. Excellent analysis!
I also think you can find ways to pair all the aeons, since they represent broad concepts. like aha and IX maybe representing Hedonism and nihilism for example
For Permanence and Remembrance, I think it’s that Permanence is all about maintaining one’s existence while Remembrance is about remembering existences that have already passed. While Remembrance is looking back on things that have already faded away, on things that have already passed, Permanence ensures that they never will fade. It’s Permanence vs Transience.
As acheron said the nihility turns of the powers of the other paths, so would its opposite "the beauty" make other paths stronger. this could be why idrilla has disappeared being taken by another Aeon for her power boosting abilities. It could fit if you think of her as the princess in the tower explain her knights search for her to rescue her from the evil dragon (the other aeon). for her captor's identity perhaps Nanook Qlipoth or Oroboros make sense in my mind.
@@Doflaminguard Where did you get that information bro? Ouroboros simply vanished and was never confirmed dead after the Swarm Disaster, get your facts right, Enigmata peep.
Your interpretation of preservation is really eye opening and mesmerizing like wow. This really opens up our understanding of the ipc that dedicate themselves to "preservation". If the concept is more about perfect preservation and less about protection, the ipc really does fit the prior concept more: resources and profit over well being of the universe. It's really more about the priority of keeping materials and natural recourses unwasted rather than the protection of life itself. This might be why the ipc can be viewed as greedy and cruel through their actions because humane peace is never their priority, the "peace" they promised only comes about through good resource management via their diplomatic business ways (dk how to word this correctly but hopefully you get it). They cannot stand a planet dying not because they care about life but because they cannot let a perfectly good resource bank go to waste; not to preserve life but preserve stocks and recourses. That's just what I think tho, pls feel free to correct me on any statements hihi.
THANK YOU. This video perfectly puts into words some of the interesting themes I’ve noticed. One very notable thing that validates your theories about Nanook and the Stellaron representing entropy is heavily supported by Hi3. The Stellaron disasters have quite a few similarities to the Honkai eruptions, (though in fairness Honkai is more closely linked to Finality). But notably, one of the major revelations of Hi3’s final arc is that the Honkai IS civilization, it is civilization that has ascended far beyond human comprehension that either destroys or assimilates any other civilization it encounters, and civilization brings entropy. Also, since the Aeons are very likely microcosmic beings, it’s quite likely that Elysia from Hi3 may have some connections to the trailblaze. Finally “End is an Origin, and Origin is and End”
The big train we ride is pretty clear in reference or actually is the Cosmic Juggernaut divine key from honkai 3rd. (Made using the core of the herrsher of the void) So the idea of spacetime manipulation is pretty legit.
I think elation vs harmony can be boiled down to individualism VS socialism, To be in Harmony means accommodating and understanding the needs of others, not just yourself, To be in harmony means tolerating others, even if that means denying yourself what you want. while the path of elation chases your own happiness (whatever form it may be, no matter how twisted it is) over everything else, even at the expense or harm of others
Another thing of note for the nihility vs beauty. Acheron say that red is the only thing of color left to her, kinda the proof that she isn't swallow yet by nihility and Argenti main color is red.
Elation is about the fun of an individual person. It isn't about making anyone happy, but yourself. Everyone be damned. That is why Sparkle reprehends Sampo for having lines he wouldn't cross, because he cared about something other than his own egotistical fun and laughter. That is also why the masked fools just cause chaos.
I think I personally saw Remembrance and Enigmata being directly opposed instead. One is focused on the preservation of memory and history, while the other is keen on destroying or distorting it. I think Finality and Permanence go together more smoothly, one being the infinite prolonging of existence and the other being the guaranteed end of it. This does leave the problem of Erudition and Trailblaze, which don't really slot together. It's a stretch and a half, but Nous can simply calculate everything using it's intelligence. The trailblaze thrives in NOT knowing, in adventure and discovery. After all, you can't blaze a trail that's already been travelled. I really enjoyed your video! HSR lore really gets me going lol
The way you described trailblaze is actually closer to how Enigmata operates rather than just distorting it. The Historical Fictionologists change and manipulate history because they believe that once everything is known and understood, the future will be set in stone. They change things to prevent people from truly knowing the whole past, because they believe it will cause them to completely know their future as well. THEY see knowing everything as a lose condition, whereas Nous sees it as the win condition. THEY work as a pair.
I think elation refers more to an intense emotion rather than joy specifically. The mourning actors are in fact aligned with Aha's principles even though they believe themselves to apposed to them. That's also why every masked fool has their own interpretation of the path. I personally have always considered Elation and Nihility to be opposite to each others, as in their conception, they are both opposite reactions to the fact that the universe is ultimately meaningless. Aha's reaction is indulgence, and IX's is depression.
I think you can see Aha vs. Xipe as pleasure (as in the immediate gratification of the senses or the amusement of the mind) vs. true happiness (something that isn't about immediate gratification but has to be carefully cultivated, often requiring some amount of effort and sacrifice). You can just think of it as short-term vs. long-term gratification. This somewhat overlaps with the chaos vs. order or selfishness vs. selflessness dichotomies (and frankly I think Elation and Harmony are supposed to encompass and synthesise all these oppositions), but I think these two things have a big enough history of being put back-to-back in philosophy and fit the two paths enough for it to be mentioned. (See Aristotle's hierarchy of goods and all of epicurean philosophy for more)
For me preservation and destruction can be summarized as destruction means changing in entropic way (no way back) when preservation tries to hinder that.
The path of Qliphoth in the Spanish localization is called ''Conservación'' which translates to conservation. The Chinese language is extremely complicated and because of this it is rare to find a localization without errors.
The last pair of aeons literally spell = kyubey and magical girls wishes 😮 The true twist of honkai star rail is kyubey is nanook and madoka is qlipoth.
This video is very fun imo. In particular, the thing about the Annihilation Gang not actually being part of the Destruction due to the fact that they don't entirely understand the purpose of the Destruction. I find the idea of a faction proclaiming to follow a path while not fully understanding it really aligns, in my opinion, with the IPC. While they proclaim to follow the Preservation, their actions are more similar to the Voracity. A corporation that saves worlds in turn for brutal conditions that usually end up benefiting the corporation more than the people of the planet doesn't really sound like the idea of preservation or conservation. While there are obviously characters that do truly believe in preserving planets(Topaz and maybe Aventurine), there are also characters in higher up positions within the IPC that clearly reflect the Voracity(Jade and her common motif of snakes(Ouroboros is ALSO a snake/serpent)). As well, the Belobog story has the player, and by extension Jarilo -IV, receive a glance from Qlipoth, but in the trailblaze continuance we see Belobog and the IPC butting heads despite allegedly following the same path. Even more so, Topaz who truly believes in the IPC and the Preservation ends up giving up in claiming Jarilo-IV, showing that the IPC's idea of Preservation likely doesn't align fully with Qlipoth.
Thank you so much for this! Your explanation of beauty and Nihility helped me to understand why I disliked Argenti from his trailer and pulled for him the second I finished his story. He's an =existentialist=. I loved him for finding beauty in a plant. I loved him because of his tragic decision to walk the path of beauty despite the fact that his Aeon is dead. He has determined what is important to him, despite knowing it will likely be fruitless. He promotes beauty in all things because, as an existentialist, that's what he has defined for himself as important. Thanks for allowing this puzzle piece to fall into place for me.
One could also make an insight that the Finality runs counter to the Trailblaze: moving backwards in time as opposed to the Trailblaze always marching ahead. Also, you did manage to touch on the old bits from Hi3rd, that Finality is and Origin, and Origin is a Finality, traveling back and forth on the same road, meeting each other and passing them by, and returning to the same place once again.
Yeah, I don’t think it’s any surprise that the faction that is most associated with the Astral Express crew is the one heavily implied to follow Terminus the Finality.
I think theres a better interpretation for what Elation is and it comes from the myriad celestia trailer fables about the stars. When you have the subtitles and it shows the Elation the subtitle we get is "Look upon the courtesans' extravagance(Hedonism)", thats is what i believe the path is about, Hedonism.
as someone who really enjoys physics (and one day hopes to pursue physics) this video is super entertaining because it seamlessly combines both hsr and physics. i especially enjoyed the conservation and waste part!
I mean its kinda on the nose. One is about experiencing possibilities and freedom and the other is about always arriving in the same spot no matter what youre doing cause its all predetermined
I agree with your Aha and Xipe pairing As Elation path is pursuit of self desire that you live for you in the moment while Harmony path is a path of coexistance and companionship for betterment of the future
We know that Aeons can consume/overtake each other if one path is broader than the other. Like what Harmony did to Order. Harmony, Preservation and Abundance are all similar to each other. So I do hope we get a moment someday in the story where Xipe may try to absorb Abundance or preservation.
Apparently during that conversation where Kafka tells you about Harmony assimilating Order she can also tell you that Propagation was split off from the Path of Permanence by Tayzzyronth when they ascended. What's more is that apparently Yaoshi didn't exist during the Swarm Disaster, so I wonder if Abundance is what was left after Propagation split off?
I’d say the xipe and aha works fine. Despite aha wanting to explore anything that makes them happy, emotions are simply their cornerstone to their existence. And from what we know from about Penacony 2.2 story, when we were inside the three phases of Sunday’s mind: there was a moment where we couldn’t use clockwork to change the puppet’s emotions; their gears and limbs were bind by strings via ena’s order. Taking this into consideration, and also by the fact that Xipe did absorb Ena (and their traits), not to mention how strings are present for both aeons as musical instruments to Xipe and as puppets to ena. But I digress, we can infer that Xipe is the opposing factor to Aha, though not entirely to bind their (aha’s) emotions but there’s some order to Xipe that nulls aha’s sporadic mess. This applies in the designs of both aeons, the evident display of organized puzzle pieces in Xipe’s design has some order to them, in contrast to the unpredictable chaotic patterns in aha’s.
Something interesting to point out, is that the word finality have other meaning in some languages, which i think this meaning connects really strongly to the path of destruction. I'm not an english native speaker, so when i heard about the "path of finality" within the game, my interpretation was completely different from yours. So, finality in some languages can also be defined as "The means to achieve something or, a certain ending". And i think this meaning fits the Stellaron Hunters much better, as they are controlling the present through the TB, to stop end of their universe. And with this concept in mind, i think Finality would actually oppose Destruction, as the emphasis of Destruction would be the end, while the emphasis of Finality would be how we would get to that end.
*Lan & Yaoshi:* Predator hunting down the prey *Nous & Mythus:* Writing facts or making fiction *Tayzzyronth & Ouroboros:* Endless production and consumption of food *IX & Idrila:* Seeing the beauty or lack thereof in all things *Long & Fuli:* Material immortality or immaterial immortality through memory *Aha & Xipe:* Cosmic discord and balance of happiness *Qlipoth & Nanook:* Sustaining or decaying the universe’s lifespan *Akivili & Terminus:* The interstellar journey and inevitable destination
I can't imagine that gremlin being capable of yapping that much... I really liked the video. Most of it feels logical, and also kinda explains why Sunday would be so disdained by the presence of Sparkle. And I was also convinced to pull for the stupid knight boy. His path is truly beautiful, but gosh dang, is he bad of explaining himself. He being an emanator would make a convincing explanation to why he is capable of so many impossible acts in the canon. And I still believe the IPC got infiltrated by worshippers of the Voracity. Even with Qlipoth's recontextualization, their actions of expansion and accumulation makes next to no sense.
Oh you were right! In this version when you click terminus vision the button to skip the story requirement to straight up start the event and get the new march 7th, it directly states how the finality is the antithesis of the trailblaze as it’s just directly the end, instead of the possibility of change and choice brought by the trailblaze when you do the story
4:20 (nice) how have I never seen anyone refer back to this scene with Kafka before? She heavily and pretty obviously in hindsight foreshadowed the penacony plot. She’s part of the faction that just knows the future and she went „oh btw Xipe absorbed ena“ and I’ve seen literally NOONE mention this. That’s so crazy to me
Great video as always, though some points are argueble. Just wanna share my thoughts on one. As I see it, even though Aha is pretty chaotic, I don't think it's the essence of what he is. In my opinion, Aha might represent emotions in general (which technically none of the other Aeons does). Path of Elation, despite focusing on joy (which often, but not always comes from various chaotic actions), also includes the Mourning Actors, who's philosophy is completely different from the Masked Fools. And Aha themselves shown to express more than simple desire to sow chaos (mostly curiosity and boredom though), and even involves themselves in global events like Swarm Disaster. But, of course this all is open to interpretation, so at the moment with, the limited information we have, any theory can be valid. Hope we'll see more of Aeons lore soon!
Around 4:40 the presumption of "Harmony being a broader concept that involves Order " , i would have looked at it the traditional way (as in European myths) in which a deity taking over concept/dominion of another deity after death or vanishing , and not as a proof of dominion taken over by inheritor necessarily means that the the dominion itself was subservient to the one of the inheritor
OMG NEW ASHIKAI VIDEO JUST DROPPED You won't believe just how excited I was when I woke up randomly at 1 am, checked my phone and saw the notification for this video. When trying to fall asleep again (I was so excited, it took a while lol), I prayed that this video was going to be about what I hoped it would be about and lo and behold, you delivered. The opposing nature of the Paths and Aeons just so happens to be one of my current hyperfixations that at this point has lasted for MONTHS! Also, we came to mostly the same conclusions about which Paths/Aeons oppose each other. In addition to what you already said in the video, I'd like to add that I personally think that the Elation is not only about the pursuit of ultimate/extreme joy, pleasure and chaos (as you already stated) but also the fact that the Elation seems to incorporate the pursuit of negative emotions such as fear, grief, hatred, anger, etc. as well. My evidence is the fact that the Mourning Actors, who particularly started to indulge in grief to oppose Aha, ended up becoming a part of the Elation as well (Aha just laughed at their grief, They were entertained). So Elation, to me, seems to be about indulging in and pursuing extremes of a variety of emotions which end up causing chaos and entertain Aha and Their followers (which makes sense when you consider the fact that Sparkle, a Masked Fool, plays russian roullette with herself in her trailer, which presumably causes her to feel extreme emotions of fear and pleasure, all so she can be entertained). Because of that, a possible opposing match for Aha the Elation could also be IX the Nihility, since Their apathy is the direct opposite of extreme emotion! Just some food for thought. I also really liked how you pointed out the fact that HooH the Equilibrium might be the reason why we are able to pair up the Aeons like this in the first place, since I hadn't thought about that. Anyway, I've been going on about this for a while, so in conclusion, I LOVE THIS VIDEO!!!!!!
bruhhh, renaming the preservation as the conservation suddenly makes sense why he would create the intergalactic centre of economy; he wanted to conserve the value of money.
That whasn't Qlipoths idea though. The IPC whas born from believers who gathered building material as tribute (even if it doesn't seem like Qlipoth ever uses said material). But with the idea here that Preservation can be understood as conservation it makes sense that Qlipoth would still glance at the IPC Stonehearts and why the flow of credits (potential energy/work) would manifest as actual power.
@@TheJH1015 all of the Paths have a faction that opposes its Aeon's goal (except harmony since that would basically already conflict with its path, unity yada yada yada)
Qlipoth actually dont care about the IPC. Qlipoth's preservation is about human civilization. The reason it keeps hammering is because it is building a wall against Leviathans.
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![[5.1] The Most Important Symbol In Genshin.... Maybe - A Genshin Impact Theory](/img/tr.png)
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![[1.2] Dan Feng's Mistake: The History of the High Cloud Quintet - Honkai: Star Rail Lore](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zTXV7lu3y-4/mqdefault.jpg)
![Coheed and Cambria - Searching for Tomorrow [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hDsYGLbmadg/mqdefault.jpg)
Don't forget to check out the RedMagic 9s Pro gaming phone! bit.ly/4bs1bQv
**NOTES & CORRECTIONS**
- I was 90% of the way through my edit, Googled "star rail hooh" and this theory popped up: www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1c2mq28/honkai_star_rail_theory_hooh_and_the_duality_of/
I'm amazed I missed this in my initial search, so I thought I'd share this. We had a similar idea, but completely different arguments/pairings which I think is really cool!
- APPARENTLY "Terminus" is the name for a type of train station. Termin-us... Termin-al... I got to the right answer with the VERY WRONG MATH en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_station#Terminus
What if people can construct in entire worlds if losted
@ashikay Looking at the reddit theory and your video, I could see that in some combinations of Aeons you and the reddit theorist managed to think of more than one pair for certain aeons, is it possible that the aeons are all connected in some way? seeing that some paths are very similar and can coexist (example: remembrance and erudition and preservation which has at its center the idea of "preservation" of something, be it knowledge, memory or galaxies.)
ok so i had to really dig for this a fair bit but i remembered reading it so vividly i couldn't afford not to throw this into the pile of evidence , among the pieces of cannon lore there is a particular statement by the game itself that finality/trailblaze is a confirmed pairing of antithesis now i don't know if a single person has mentioned this yet but i couldn't find it online so i'd like to provide this evidence which is, the finality's vision function which allows us to play an event without completing the prerequisit quest actually has this statement about it "this path is antithesis to that of the Trailblaze, upon entering, causality inverts, thus revealing things of the future before one's eyes..." i could not find any captured instance of it unless i dig through someone's live stream and clip it, but instead i managed to find it by using the function in an alt account (i understand clicking image links on the internet is not the wisest choice and thus i'll leave the following chopped up url, "im gur. com/ a/NS3APAU" you may chose to check it or not, either way i hope this has helped ) i've been thinking about the aeon pairings for a while so i am glad to see you touch up on them.
Saddle the cocoon of finality has different nature from a Aeon and this is confirmed by welts at the beginning.
@@guystridsigne2691
interesting writeup, it's a matter of perspective so i can't argue much, except Equilibrium being between Hunt and Abundance. Equilibrium should be between everything by thay logic because it's a balance of everything.
Harmony: "Everything sucks, how can we improve it"
Elation: "Everything sucks, we might as well have fun making it worse"
@@CuriusGorg Nihility: Nothing matters, so its not worth living
Elation: Nothing matters, so lets have fun
@@imlivid2746 *nothing instead of anything
@@vermilion6966 true, thanks for pointing it out!!
@@CuriusGorg
Equilibrium: Everything sucks, let’s create a balance
Finality: Everything sucks, let’s end it
@@Golden-l4r thats destruction, not finality
finality is: everything sucks, so im travelling from the future to help people avoid the bad
It could be argued that the path of the trailblaze is the journey while finality is the destination
and elation is the friends we make along the way
@@ultimate1450 and nihility is the friends that die along the way
And remembrance is the memories we make along the way
And erudition is the knowledge we gain along the way
and propagation is the bugs we kill along the way
The Nihility and Beauty pairing hits me emotionally when you realize Kiana (from HI3) has a mission of "protecting all Beauty in the world" and Raiden Mei responded to this with "my world means Nothing without you"
Mei is an emanator of nihility.
Possible beauty emanator kiana????
@@skall6501if idrila comes back at some point or we get an emanator of beauty and they end up being kiana i will cry and scream
Dang
this reminds me of how acheron texts us with something along the lines of, "may we appreciate the beauty of this world on a larger vista" which sounds so much like "may all the beauty be blessed" to me, like come on
Argenti better be the beauty emanator
i personally view elation as the pursuit of ones own joy and entertainment above all else. we know that the masked fools can and do betray each other to get what they want, but not all of them have a desire to sow chaos, they just want to have fun how they each individually want. rather than harmony vs elation being "harmony vs discord", i think a better way to describe it is "happiness for all vs happiness for oneself"
I think Elation is just joy (so like happiness on a higher level that you can consciously feel) but I can also see myself pathstriding Harmony as well as Elation so if what you said is true it will be the greatest happiness for everyone
This is why Elation I and especially II in Simulated Universe Swarm Disaster is my favorite, Aha knows you're not the true Akivili and even breaks the 4th wall causing Herta and Ruan Mei to be stupefied.
I have a feeling TB will get an Elation path based on FuA Attacks (Involving none other than TB favorite thing; Trashcans)
That's why Elation is my favorite path
@@farouktalbi863 that would be so damn funny
Or maybe even Selfishness (Elation) and Selflessness (Harmony)?
Fun fact, when attempting to access an event in Star Rail without clearing the pre-requisite story quests (such as Apocalyptic Shadow,) the game warns you that, roughly, "to gain knowledge of the future rejects the Path of the Trailblaze and is the domain of Finality."
I wish I'd taken a screenshot of the message in full the one time I read it, because I cannot find anyone else online who shared it.
yep, i saw that message too. plus i believe jade said something to firefly in the most recent quest that seemed to imply that the stellaron hunters follow the finality! which makes sense since they seem like the "opposite" faction of the astral express.
plus, elio is destiny's slave because he can look into the future - and terminus always knows the future since they travel backward in time... could he be an emanator of finality? it seems to me like he at least has some sort of powers from the finality
The feature was introduced in v2.3 as "Finality's Vision".
This is the verbatim in-game prompt of Finality's Vision, at least it was back in v2.3:
"This path is the antithesis to that of the Trailblaze. Upon entering, causality inverts, thus revealing things of future before one's eyes."
in a simple words, a spoiler to those new players 💀
@@redvoltaire11 i think it's all but confirmed. Neat!
@@_aster_ You're basically just stating canon info, lol. The only part of this not fully confirmed is Elio being an emanator, and even that is practically confirmed.
The last pairing makes a lot of sense, especially when you take into consideration that a "Terminus" is the exact definition of a station at the very end of a railway line.
Only there do trains end their journey
Yoooooooo
And also starts a new one
Wasnt it also stated that the two paths finality and trailblaze contradict each other by the new end game mode apocalyptic shadow?
you can think of it as the favorite pairing of mihoyo, origin and finality. Trailblaze or origin, the start of OUR journey, reaching towards the end, and finality, reaching towards the beginning. Mihoyo loves samsaras, the cycle of beginning and end.
When Acheron and the Galaxy Ranger are talking about her resisting the nihility he says she has a bit of the color red in her, Argenti entire pallet is gold silver and bright red...
and both have flower motifs
agree, also when the speech Acheron gives to the Mc about the Most ferent source of light must be behind/beyong nihility i thought Idrilla must be there or maybe is that source of light itself that she talks about, that's Also why Argenti Does the suicidal/ impossible feats that brings him closer to it (maybe thats why he had access to taht place and took adventurine out). maybe the red of existance she clings to is whats left of idrilla or smthing like that who knows
Not to mention the acheron "Color" trailer which is an ads for BEAUTY product 😂
@@RazeluxeMeitzen7 forgot all about that, the "apply your color" ad
@@bootay2835 Also argenti is a knight while acheron is a samurai
Ah, that’s the red she keeps talking about! Yes! So good!
13:40 When you realize the theory assumes Elation to be opposite of Order and *Sparkle's enemies in her trailer are literally Sunday's Order machines*
Elation basically means selfish and freedom so yeah, its the opposite of order.
A few things:
• I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed that the path of Erudition and Enigmata clashed as opposites to each other.
• I also agree that Elation does feel mislabeled since Aha loves to create chaos where he goes.
• 19:02 This actually further explains why the Annihilation Gang hasn’t received Nanook’s blessing, because they don’t fundamentally understand the Destruction’s will to bring about entropy. The Annihilation Gang have personal motives/desires for their acts of destruction which is seen an impure, as stated in the Data Bank.
- Yeah, in Gold and Gear, Mythus basically stated they screwed up stuff to specifically mess with Nous calculation because they don't believe in pre-determined future. This is basically confirmed.
- I disagree. I don't even think Elation in its essence is chaos. It's just doing whatever that make YOU happy. Giovanni just create silly games, he doesn't really create chaos or harming anyone. Harmony is doing whatever that makes EVERYONE happy. The result can be the same, trying to make yourself happy can make others happy, and trying to pleased everyone can ended up pleasing no one, just the intention that matters.
You can kinda see this in Aha themselves. They was curious, so they disguised as a Nameless and experienced what it's like. That's great. And when they was bored, they blew it up. This seems like random chaos sowing, but it's not. It's just mean they are the embodiment of human fickleness tuned up to 100. We can find amusement in the most random harmless things to the most despicable shit, so they are too. And when they find something amusing, they will do it without fail.
also about Propagation, Abundance and Permanence the reason they are so similar is because Abundance and Propagation took a part of the path Permanence to ascend
I agree Aha/Xipe are the opposites, but I don't think Elation is mislabeled. If you think about it, Aha and the Masked Fools are all about their own enjoyment. Meanwhile, Harmony is all about the collective welfare. So you can think about it as self vs. all
my personal crack theory is that aha is the one who named THEIR path because it's 1) entirely in character for them and 2) no one in their right mind BESIDES aha and THEIR followers would call it the elation
enigmata become aeon because of erudition
Wait the Beauty/ Nihility as counterparts thing is genius Argenti and Acheron are my HSR mains so I’ve been reading a lot of the in game text about their paths. The idea of the Beauty being a path where one sees the purpose in all things vs the Nihility’s pointlessness in all things has definitely occurred to me, but I hadn’t been thinking about it in terms of Equilibrium. One things that also strikes me is that for Knights of Beauty, those who fall off the path of Beauty and gain a narrow view of the world/ have their sense of purpose distorted lose their sense of self and become monsters, which strikes me as kind of similar to what happens to Self Annihilators, also losing their sense of self and returning to Nihility
I JUST POSTED A COMMENT ABOUT THIS, I'm pasting it here for your reading convenience!!
Nihility and Beauty being opposites makes the most sense, but it REALLY doesn't paint a hopeful future for my guy Boothill. I'm afraid he'll be a "departed" guest in the near future, when we finally come face to face with the Stonehearts' big wigs.
Yeah, he's obviously been at the very end of his wits tiptoeing the brink of Nihility for a while if he willingly turned his body into a walking weapon for the sole purpose of destroying Oswaldo Schneider and is drinking jet fuel just to feel something. Being buddies with Aventurine's self destructive ass is REALLY worrying, too.
But it does give me a little hope how they kept connecting him to Argenti in Penacony... Metaphorically, that could mean he is holding onto more than just his Hunt, specially with his color scheme being MAINLY black, white and gray with just a touch of red. All that plus him being a Galaxy Ranger, it makes sense that Acheron is low-key keeping an eye on him... Does she fear him becoming an Emanator of Nihility once his Hunt is inevitably over?
That's why I've been thinking if the reason why Acheron has not completely given in to the effects of Nihility, is because she believes in beauty. I mean the whole Acheron's monologue in the hidden ending cutscene "All those things beautiful before, are still so now." and about blooming at the end of Nihility could point to that. Or maybe it's just my crack theory 😅
@@cynthtnyc this is so clever I never thought about Boothill in thr context of the Nihility but it makes so much sense with the stuff you pointed out… can Argentihill save Boothill from self annihilation lmao
Crap You just reminded me that Acheron color for meaning is red, and Argenti is literally covered in red. Maybe red is the symbolism for beauty while black and white is the symbolism for nihility.
@@210mzt9 And they both never met.
The pairing between Permanence and Rememberance reminds me a lot of Raiden makoto and ei, Long achieve eternity through reincarnation while Fulli makes worlds memories eternal, makoto see eternity in peoples everchanging dreams while ei see eternity in literal sense. Basically dynamic vs static, change vs stagnant, fluidity vs solidified
Not to mention Imbibitor lunae dragon is water and fully is ice
@@Biohacker777 also this makes the thematic relationship between dan heng and march all the more precious
at this point im convinced hi3, genshin, and star rail have the same plot
one could say they're making a HOYOverse ahaha
always has been
I mean, you aren’t completely wrong
Its all cycles, just cycles and cycles and sometimes a samsara which is just another word for cycle
Yo, it's my favorite saxophone player
ngl, Idrila's path seeing the beauty in everything explains why the faction that seeks to revive THEM is called the "Mirror Holders". If your philosophy is to see the beauty in everything, that would also mean seeing the beauty in yourself in the mirror.
Nah I think it’s more like holding a mirror out in order to make people see their reflection and see the beauty in themselves
I think *Trailblaze* vs *Finality* is a lot simpler.
It's the *journey* vs *destination.*
It's the *search for experience* vs *already knowing how it all ends.*
It's the going *forward in time* vs going *backwards in time.*
2.3 Literally calls out that Finality is the opposite of Trailblaze too.
The game also calls out them being opposites when it gives you the option to do game content before finishing the prerequisite (ie current) patch. I can't recall the exact phrasing.
@@christopherclayton5500 yes that's the 2.3 thing I am talking about.
@@LeaksHater Ah. Well, for the record, it is called out in 2.4 as well with the "training March 7th" thing.
@@christopherclayton5500 It was added in 2.3. It's just a system thing. It'll be a thing in future patches too.
@@LeaksHater So what you are saying is that it is called out in 2.4 as well.
8:20 This could explain why Ouroboros disappeared after the swarm, with the "deactivation" of the propagation, the voracity also went into stasis to balance things out
If Tayzzyronth reawake, the first thing that would happen would be signs of Ouroboros activity
This 2 was first Abundance(Propagation) and The Hunt(Voracity)😮
This could also explain why Nanook gazed upon the Trailblazer so early on in the story. It's not because the Trailblazer was following the will of destruction but because their very existence, with the stellaron in their body, generates an overwhelming amount of entropy, greatly accelerating the heat death of the universe. Which is Nanook's main goal.
And also why Nanook has not gazed upon the annihilation gang. Because they mindlessly destroy stuff not in the name of destruction or to create entropy, but usually for their own gain.
Finality Aeon is called Terminus and name is derived from Terminal or Terminal station.
WOW this analogy makes so much sense. Your explanation of Trailblaze and Finality explain so much of my confusion 😲 regarding the relationship between the Astral express and Stellaron hunter.
I was looking for a similar comment ! As a French person it makes even more sense because a terminus is LITTERALLY what we call the last station on a metro / train line
also the word terminate
13:25 it inspires 'happiness' because youre free to do what you want. Literally. Pure hedonism. I think that in-game description on a loading screen even said so much.
Thats why I think using a word elation is better than 'happiness' because elation means youre basically so over it like youre high on something, its in the absolute. Its not just happiness , its set on overdrive its like mania to always pursue only pleasure for yourself and getting high off it
yeah elation is hedonism + individuality and harmony/order is conformity
Thank you for mentioning the gnosticism themes of the aeons, It amazes me how little gnosticism theories exist in the hoyoverse fandom, considering both genshin and star rail take a lot of inspiration of gnosticism such as; the aeons, archons, gnosis etc.
it's a VERY prominent thing in Genshin theories. Not so much in Star Rail ones because it's not really that obvious.
@@TheJH1015 Hell there's even gnosticism references in HI3 as well but they are subtle, Hoyo just seems to be more open about It in genshin than any other of their games.
@@TheJH1015 well, penacony is blatant with its gnostic themes.
for example, Sunday partially symbolizes the "gnosis/salvation" in gnostic ideology
There is a massive abundance of gnostisim theories in Geshin. It is definitely not lacking them.
HI3 has an issue with being not as popular of a game, so it has less players and therefore less theories.
Yeah like one of my theory in genshin is Celestial(Light,Imaginary) realm is Demiurge(Order) while Abyssal(Dark,Quantum) is Satanael(Chaos)
It's interesting to me that we've got March and Dan Heng on the express specifically. It's been constantly speculated that March has some relationship to The Remembrance/Fuli in some way. Meanwhile Dan Heng, by virtue of Imbibitor Lunae is one of Long's Scions.
i like how you have the elation paired with order/harmony as something like order and chaos, but i feel like another great duality for the pairing is more like the self vs the whole.
personally, i think something that describes aha's and the masked fool's actions is more like hedonism. they create chaos yes, but only because it amuses them. it serves as their own entertainment. they act on whatever makes them the most happy, even things at others' expense.
on the flip side, there's harmony, which is all about connecting with others. harmonic characters care for everyone, even making self sacrifices to uphold everyone else. they act for the good of everyone, not just themselves.
i don't think that the mirroring themes are limited to just something like individualism vs collectivism, but i do think it adds to how these two paths are great mirrors of each other! not only is it the self vs the whole, but also chaos vs order and discord vs harmony.
Ooh... Good insight!
Discord and Harmony, hmm where have I heard those two words together before.
Someone who takes pleasure in causing chaos for the sake of entertainment. Hmm, where has that appeared before.
@@snowyforest6058 my little pony…….
Elation is America and Harmony/Order is Japan.
I absolutely LOVE the contrasts of Nihility and Beauty. To think about how Acheron rejects the Nihility and blooms with RED flowers when she uses her "burst" when red is a color that has so many associations with life-generating energy and is also the same color that is all over Argenti... She's fighting her fate so hard. Not to mention that thinking about beauty as seeing the meaning in all things makes me love Argenti even more.
It also shows how the Nihility drains away colour, unable to see the Beauty, which is beautiful and vibrant and colourful
Rememberence and permanence to be opposites surprised me, but I think you cooked! The Material vs Immaterial actually makes so much sense, especially with the memokeepers having given up their physical forms to be able to freely traverse memories.
@@mariaantonia-op8qc I think Remembrance and Permanence both share the common theme of “Eternity”
Remembrance being literal Eternity while Permanence is “adapting” to the way of the world
One thing of note: Ena the Order and Aha the Elation also have designs which are completely opposite to another.
Ena the Order is a giant machine made from several mechanical parts arranged in a way that looks like a person watching over a pocket-space, but it also has a giant eye glaring directly at the planets and Ena herself. Her mask looks distraught, stressed almost.
Aha the Elation is a cocophany of shapes, each looking discordant and out of place from one another. Sort of like a collection of toys left by a child on a carpet. But if you look closely, you can see a faint silhouette of a person, Turned away from it. The masks looking happy.
One of the Aeons is a humanoid shape being looked at by a single inhuman object. The other is a humanoid figure looking away from an inhuman collection of objects.
One other thing of note is that we don't really know which parts of the two Aeons are the actual Aeons. I've seen people theorize that Ena is the eye itself with the doll posing as a "mask" of sorts, but i wonder if Aha itself is the person, similarly masking itself as a pile of toys.
Furthermore, both of the Aeon's color schemes mirror one another as well. Ena being blues, golds and some purples with Aha being reds, oranges and blacks.
By the way the video is great. I just had an "Aha!"(get it?) Moment just now and couldn't sit down without sharing my thoughts first.
Aha is the person. THEIR physical form is a pun in Chinese, as THEY have a completely awful reputation, actively demolishing really, but the term for reputation is the same one as "face" in English. So Aha literally has no face. I think this is mentioned somewhere in the game proper, but I'd have to read through the data bank again.
One thing that actually supports the "the Astral Express is a clock" theory is just the way the Astral Express works.
It is said that Akivil managed to find a way to move through spacetime faster than light to reach new destinations faster, which sounds absolutely absurd since the Astral Express is clearly a percetible moving object. Obviously you could make a point for some fantasy sci-fi reason like some form of distortion of spacetime that Akivil came across and managed to engineer into the train or whatever and it wouldn't be wrong since HSR is a fanatsy sci-fi game after all, but what I like to imagine is that the Astral Express is actually just one big clock that can be manually set. Like you skip ahead on a clock, and everything moves way faster until a specific point is reached. That's the way the Astral Express skips ahead through the universe without actually messing anything up, technically they aren't really present when things happen because it's just incomprehensibly fast and has already passed everything on the tracks before it could interact in any way.
Which again supports the "Trailblaze is the opposite of Finality" theory, since the trailblaze is not only wishing to and experiencing the future, but also directly jumping to it, always on a journey, whereas Finality comes from the farthest future and moves to the past. I mean, Akivili literally ascended to Aeonhood because of their will to find the ENDPOINT of the Tree of Existence. If that isn't confirmation then idk what is.
the one thing i like is that Destruction and Preservation are "linked" (though very loosely) together by a game mechanics coincidence: the MC Type while in those paths are Physical and Fire, respectively; In SU, the damage type their Resonance cause are Fire and Physical, respectively. Though this means absolutely nothing, i always found it neat that MC kinda "opposed" the Paths preferred element 😅😅
Also is funny that when MC was under Nanook Gaze for the first time, it was bc they were trying to protect March, and when MC was under Qlipoth GAze for the first time, they were trying to stop/destroy Cocolia's plan...
That's kinda interesting. It should be noted that both were in situations where they were fighting an emanator figure and had to oppose the path against them to follow it, protecting to destroy destruction, and destroying protection to protect Belabog.
It also mirrors Genshin where the 2 first elements are the opposite elements. In Genshin, traveler gets Geo and Anemo first (sky and land)
In Wuwa similarly the two first elements are Spectro and Havoc (light and darkness)
*HOLY*
Ok, i got my mind blown when the connection of Trailblazer and Finality turned back to Kiana Finality arc in hi3.... Makes so much sense...
The Trailblazer is both Trailblazing the alpha the past and beginning, and Finality the omega the future and the end,we will ascended to represents the middle,the present
A fair number of HI3 players instantly twitched when we first heard about the existence and nature of Terminus, the Aeon of Finality; I don’t think HI3 is directly dealing with Terminus but I could easily envision The Cocoon being some kind of Emanator of Finality, acting in the same sense as Acheron to Nihility: seeking to defy the very path they follow.
Acheron seeks to find some kind of meaning and purpose in existence, and The Cocoon has been resetting Earth over and over, trying to create a version of humanity that can withstand “The Finality”. Add to that the very similar appearance of The Cocoon and Terminus and the fact that they’re literally in a shared multiverse, plus the decaying and corrosive effects of Honkai energy on those who can’t withstand it, and you start to see a lot of hinted connections.
I really like the comparison of Preservation with Conservation/Transmutation. Diamond creating the Cornerstone from portions of Qlipoth’s flesh can also allude to this comparison.
Speaking of Diamond, he likey the only Ipc head who actually follows the path of perseverance. The other Ipc, like Oswaldo Schneider, follows the path of voracity
@@Josh-qt5zi Their actions follows the path of Voracity but what they are thinking they are following the philosophy of Preservation exactly what governments do in IRL
The connection between the Preservation and Destruction blew my mind
When I look at Destruction, I see preservation because "Destruction eventually will take down preservation."
The icon of destruction is a tower that's breaking down and covered in flames.
It also applies for Trailblaze and Finality. "Terminus goes backwards in time" while Trailblaze keeps going until the journey reaches to *finality*
Nitpick: I don't think Nanook is actually seeding the world with Stellerons. I think this is people in-universe getting cause and effect mixed up. The Animatter Legion aren't seeding the Stellerons, they're following them.
Yes people kind of just jumped to that assumption.
@@inqy8339 mmmm Nanook's seed
@@lizardwithabranchyeah no, you’re about to face destruction here in a second
The broad implication is that the Stellarons have something to do with Nanook but after watching this video, with the way that Qlipoth 'removes' Tayzzyronth's concept, and the fact that Sunday almost becomes an Aeon during the 2.3 bossfight, I'm beginning to wonder if stellarons, or some form/variant of them, are required in the process of becoming an Aeon. This would mean that stellarons, in some form, predate Nanook because like half the Aeons ascended before Nanook ever did.
@@lyteupthelyfe5573 Smallest of nitpicks. all the Aeons ascended before Nanook, given we know Nanook is the youngest.
10:00
Beauty being the opposite of Nihility make perfect sense if we look at it from HI3 POV Elysia and IX similar in the opposite way
So this video sparked a discussion between me and my bf, to try and figure out our own Aeon pairings
TLDR, this is what we ended up with:
- Equilibrium
- Abundance / Hunt
- Erudition / Enigmata
- Trailblaze / Finality
- Voracity / Preservation
- Nihility / Elation
- Beauty / Remembrance
- Propagation / Harmony
- Permanence / Destruction
I'll go over our reasoning for these pairings, but the main aspects of those pairings is the idea that they're 2 sides of the same coin, that one concept cannot exist without the other.
The Hunt cannot exists without the Abundance, the Enigmata can't exist without the Erudition, and there'd be no reason for the Abundance and Erudition to exist in the first place if there was no suffering and death, and no mystery to solve.
I'll skip the Equilibrium, the Abundance and Hunt, and the Erudition and Enigmata since you already went over those pairings
*The Trailblaze and Finality*: The Journey and the Destination
You already went over this pairing in your video, but I wanted to add that the last stop of a train is called a Terminus, the same as the Finality's name. And considering the Astral Express is a train on a never-ending journey, it makes sense that these 2 would be paired together. The Trailblaze is about experiencing the journey, while the Finality is about the destination, where the tracks end.
*The Voracity and Preservation*: the Abyss and the Firmament
So the thing is, these two Aeons are already presented as a pair of enemies in lore. Qlipoth is building the Subspace Crystalline Barrier to prevent their enemy, the Voracity, from devouring the living worlds. Meanwhile, the Voracity believes that everything is destined to the sea of void, to the darkness within their mouth. Both of their roles are taken from biblical inspirations.
Ouroboros, the Voracity, is clearly a reference to Tehom, the abyss/primeval sea of chaos that God parted to create the world, using the Firmament, a crystalline dome that keeps the waters out, which sounds a lot like what Qlipoth is building to keep the Voracity from devouring the world, to prevent the world from being drowned in the waters of chaos.
Also, Ouroboros is a Dusk Leviathan, and the Leviathan in biblical lore is often associated with primordial chaos and the sea.
*The Nihility and Elation*: Unfeeling and Feeling
So the logic for this one is based around how the Hunt and the Enigmata ascended. Both of them ascended in direct response to another Aeon, and I think the same thing happened with Aha and the Nihility. If you read the Masked Fools' parable about Aha's ascension, it says that they climbed atop the Tree of Existence and then seemingly experienced a sort of existential dread at the cold, meaninglessness of the universe. It makes it sound like Aha was becoming a Self-Annihilator, but rejected the Nihility once they saw that baby fall and cry, and they just laughed, which caused their ascension.
I think this direct rejection of another Aeon leading into ascension definitely seems to imply a duality, similar to how Lan and Mythus ascended.
Beyond that, it seems like both Aeons tackle the question of "if the universe has no meaning, what should you do?". The Nihility's answer is that you should give up, isolate and rot away until the end comes, meanwhile the Elation's answer is to find joy in day to day life, afterall, the universe is a big joke so why not laugh at it?
Also, the Elation is not just about joy, but the full spectrum of emotions (joy, anger, sorrow, disgust, fear, etc.), which contrasts with the Nihility's unfeeling numbness.
*The Beauty and Remembrance*: Experiencing and Remembering
This one was suggested by my bf and it actually makes a lot of sense! The Beauty is about experiencing the beauty of the moment, while the Remembrance is about keeping the memory of that experience alive forever. Also, both Aeons' loading screen texts talk about how intelligent lifeforms define existence, with the Beauty's view being about the material world, while the Remembrance states that intelligence and memory are the proof of existence, aka something immaterial/spiritual. The Beauty experiences all things, and the Remembrance records the memory of all those experiences.
Interestingly, Idrila's disappearance means that she's only a memory. This brings me to the Beauty faction known as the Mirror Holders, who have shards of a mirror that can project a person's view of beauty into reality. What's relevant here is the fact that it's a mirror, and Fuli has a lot of associations with mirrors and reflective crystals.
As an additional note, there's a japanese myth about two sister goddesses, Konohanasakuya-hime and Iwanaga-hime. The first one is the beautiful goddess of cherry blossoms and transient beauty, while her sister is the ugly goddess of stone and longevity. A guy named Ninigi was offered Iwanaga-hime's hand in marriage, which would have resulted in humans living long but monotonous lives, but he rejected her and instead chose her sister, Konohanasakuya-hime, leading to humans living short but beautiful lives. I feel like this could be a potential inspiration, with the Beauty's association with a flower (roses) and the Remembrance's association with stones (crystals) and the idea that memories are eternal.
*The Propagation and Harmony*: Division and Unification
The main idea for this pairing is that they're sorta similar concepts done in opposite ways.
The Propagation ascended out of a desire to not be the last of its kind anymore, creating a self-replicating monster of an Aeon. One who becomes many.
The Harmony is a collective of people who decided to unite and cooperate together. Many who become one.
To add to this idea, they're the only two Aeons that have been referred to as plural, with the Harmony outright described as a "plural Aeon", and the Propagration said to be more accurately called "Tayzzyronths" (with an s) rather than simply "Tayzzyronth". Also, both are known to spread their influence, which adds to the "two sides of the same coin" aspect. Endless expansion of population vs unification of many different populations into one singular hivemind.
*The Permanence and Destruction*: Continuation and Extinction
The main idea behind Permanence is the continuation of bloodlines, aka a constant cycle of rebirth, rather than immortality. The idea of legacy being important to this concept.
Meanwhile, the Destruction views civilizations as a cancer upon the world that needs to be erased. They go so far as to create wishing stars that feed off of the wishes of civilizations to bring about their downfall and total extinction.
If we view civilization as a form of legacy, the legacy of its founding people, then the Destruction makes sense as its opposite. And in a way, if Permanence is a cyclical existence, it needs Destruction to bring about the end of the previous cycle so a new one can begin.
I hope this makes sense! Coming up with these kinds of theories is always really fun!
great analysis! :D
This was fun to read
That point about the Elation is actually pretty interesting… I could see it as the idea of losing all desire for anything including life itself, vs being overwhelmed by your own desires, leading to a constant chasing of pleasure, entertainment and personal benefit with no regard for anything else. Both stemming from the same perspective on the meaninglessness of the universe, as you described.
I like this more than Ashikai''s take. Beauty and Remembrance especially.
Long and Nanook one makes a lot of sense!!! Sucha fun theory to read as well
11:30 On the topic of the Remembrance and the Permanence, I like to think of them as a “Change vs Unchanging” dichotomy.
Fuli as Unchanging is easy, memories don’t change, they turn the dynamic nature of the universe into static depictions of reality. Assuming a perfect memory, what has already happened will never change. But why would “The Permanence” be about change? You see, the funny thing about Long is that, despite being called “The Permanence” THEIR path is about change, or rather, about how some things remain the same DESPITE changing.
In the “Exodus of the Five Dragons” MCT, the two characters are talking about Long, and are trying to figure out what the path of Permanence is all about using questions and answers (more like trying to teach us):
Q: Is it about the Permanence of our lives?
A: No, that's what Yaoshi is all about, THEY even warn us about the dangers of seeking eternal life. The Permanence is not about immortality.
Q: Is it about the continuation of bloodlines?
A: No, a relatively large population of the Vidyadhara might live in the Xianzhou ships, but the character says that most are dispersed throughout the universe, living in solitude. The Permanence is not about bloodlines. “...in the vastness of the universe, the rise and fall of one race is of little consequence.”
Q: Is it about the Permanence of society to: “...ensure the safety of the universe”?
A: No, that’s more of a Qlipoth thing. They say: “Imbibitor Lunae forsook his oath, causing a state of great disorder. The high elders, too, bear mortal frailties, their heavy burdens ultimately becoming the shackles which bind them.”
Q: So, in the end, they ask, what is it about then?
A: “As the sun and moon rise and fall, the world undergoes continuous change. So, the concept of "stability" is meaningless. Only by comprehending and aligning with the way of the world... can one's path lead to everlasting existence.”
The Permanence is about change. The universe is a dynamic system in constant evolution. In order to exist forever, one must change and evolve along with it. You may never cross the same river twice, the water under your feet is always different. Yet, it remains the same river. You are not the person you were 10 years ago. Yet, you remain YOU.
To exist not as a fixed thing, but as an ever-changing being, is the path of Permanence. That’s the answer to existence that Long found. You can actually see that in the Vidyadhara, like the quest about the guy that falls in love with the same woman in every reincarnation and is always jealous of the previous one. They might be different people (with different lives, jobs, interests, personalities and memories), but some things continue the same. The Permanence of change, one could say.
I fully believe that Long didn't just die, but rather CHANGED into something else that's not a dragon (or maybe evolved would be a better way to put it?)
We know for a fact that tayzzyronth was born from long, and yaoshi probably was too looking at the timing
I feel there's a lot easier way to think about why Trailblaze and Finality are opposites.
Trailblaze is all about changing oneself through the experiences of travel, or even just by the experiences of interacting with other people. While Finality is all about "the end" the aeon's travelling backwards in time trying everything to run from the end of all things.
Put simply; Trailblaze is the path of "The Journey" while Finality is the path of "The Destination", which similarly to what you said Ashikai, paints the Nameless and the Hunters in a very different light than the game does, in fact, it paints them in a similar light to what OUR EXPERIENCES with the Stellaron Hunters has painted them. They're not these "villains out to destroy the universe, take what they want and leave disaster in their wake" it's actually quite the opposite, they're trying to fix things, trying to leave things for the better, but they're just not focusing on the better of the "right now" they're focusing on the better of the "Soon to come" they're making waves and causing chaos, making sure everything turns out okay when stuff hits the fan, while we're picking up their pieces, putting things back together.
The Stellaron Hunters and the Nameless don't COUNTER each other; they COMPLIMENT each other. Kafka, Sam, Silver Wolf, (I have no Idea how Blade's in this group, I love him but WHAT are you doing?) and Elio have a BIG script they're making DAMN SURE plays out the way they want it to, it from day 1 it's been obvious they want GOOD things to happen. "At the end of your journey, when you face Nanook, the Destruction, you will need all the help you can get" EVERYTHING they've been doing? It's trying to GET PEOPLE INDEBTED TO US, so that if the Nameless say "Jump", the universe says "How high?", and meanwhile, we're picking up the pieces of their chaos, of the Luofu who was running around like a chicken with it's head cut off, until Kafka pointed at us, effectively, (Which ever since Jing Yuan and Fu Xian have been working a LOT more eye-to-eye, as if they've swapped into "Stuff just got real" mode), and Belabog is inarguably in a better place, though not derived from the Hunters actions.
You can connect EVERY path to a philosophy. Hedonism is Elation, Nihility is nihility, preservation is stoicism, harmony is epikureism (I think), beauty is optimism (probably smth higher), remembrance is platonism, finality is catastrophism. Every single path is connected to philosophy
So likeee do with this information what you want
Oh, also Trailblazer was confirmed in the last patch to actually be watched by Finality Aeon.
Those times when we got visions from the future was it's blessing working
The only time it happened was when we receive Nanook's gaze no?
And what's still weird to me is that Sampo's scene. How can we dream about him when he isn't connected to Stellaron?
@@jerryeljeremy7790 Happened in Penacony in the jump, the one which got us stuck in the primal dreamscape and met Acheron.
@@jerryeljeremy7790 Elation has the ability to break the fourth wall. Sampo and Sparkle isn't talking to the Trailblazer, they're talking to YOU, the player. Aha also knows they're not real in Simulated Universe.
@@nebulous1047 This is starting to sound like Undertale/Deltarune stuff ngl. Really cool that HSR took inspiration from Sans and Jevil. I assume Trailblazer is HSR Kris then.
@@jerryeljeremy7790 honestly, i DO see the resemblance of kris and frisk in trailerblazer. both are just silly little dorks most of the time
im extremely torn, because the enigmata and the erudition have a clear connection, but the way that history fictionologists make a point of covering up history and changing it even in the minds of people leads me to form a connection between mythus and fuli (even moreso since mythus was born from inside the garden of recollection). history fictionologists remind me of cremators that discard memories not for the sake of just forgetting, but preventing history from repeating itself. fuli's entire mission is preserving memories to prepare for the next cycle of the universe, and from what ive gathered ingame, thats the exact opposite of what the followers of the enigmata want
Imo it might get explained later why Erudition and Enigmata are opposites and why Remembrance and Enigmata are not once we discover what Enigmata really means, and my bet is that its actually imagination/creativity/subjectivity. Since Enigmata is clearly not (or atleast not just) about people forgetting about the past, Mythus clearly has a goal and whatever that goal is its the complete opposite of Erudition since the beef between the two is more emphasized then Remembrance and Enigmata which seem to actually sound like allies with how Emenators of Enigmata and Remembrance have similar powers according to penacony, and how it actually feels like Mythus is an offshoot of Fuli. And that they might actually be more similar then we thought. My guest is that HF and Mythus don't actually destroy history, they alter it or make allegories/riddles about it to better preserved it like how im GI the only way to prevent an information from getting deleted from imrminsul is by turning that data into a fictional novel, story, poem, riddle, allegory, something Mythus and there followers like to do. Maybe HSR has away to alter everyone's memory similar to Genshins and erase even memories preserved by the Remembrance and therefore Mythus and the fictions, stories, riddles them and there followers create are a way to hijack it.
20:28 when you showed the Astral Express and Terminus, I suddenly got reminded of Kiana's graduation trip by those visuals.
One theory I’ve held onto about the paths in the Star Rail universe, is that all the paths of the various Aeons all lead to one place, and that is Finality, and then get rebirthed from there in possibly new form, in an endless loop.
This theory is entirely based on how Honkai Impact 3rd’s Finality worked. It created Herrschers from its own aspects which then had dominion over said aspects of the Finality.
However, I never really considered the Trailblaze. And now that I’ve watched this theory video, I’ve come to realize something.
In Honkai Impact 3rd there is a Herrscher which existed outside the Finality, called Origin. They were, in a strange poetic irony, kinda antithesis of their own respective names, Origin leading to the end, while Finality being the beginning.
So, what if the Path of the Trailblaze is the Star Rail universe’s Origin equivalent?
The Finality first creates the universe in its rebirth, and from that the Aeons and their Paths are formed, and The Trailblaze is a sort of guide to the last destination, leading all paths back to Finality in the end, where a new universe will be reborn, and the cycle begins anew.
Origin was an anomaly - but she was still just a part of Finality power, nothing says otherwise.
@@GolgothianSylex huh, from what I understood, cuz of Elysia and her own statements, the Origin was a separate thing, at least until she went into Finality to give the Herrschers of CE a bit of humanity, which in turn caused origin to be a part of finality.
A difference in interpretation I suppose.
@@AnArtistInAVoid Herrscher authority is the mirror of Finality, and we knew no other beings of that level and behaviour besides Sa, but it never went to Earth. Also, Elysia actually helped Finality to achieve its goals, not the other way around. Maybe there are explanations to why Elysia is considered an anomaly(also, need to look up - this "fact" could be made up by community), but I think it refers to Elysia being brought into the world without a human host and with complete consciousness and human-like self-awareness, which true Herrschers and Cocoon lack.
@@GolgothianSylex it’s been a bit since I played Honkai Impact, so correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t it actually that Elysia was born as a Herrscher, fell in love with humanity when she was living in some middle of the forest village near her birthplace, went on a journey around the world to witness the wonders of humanity, loving everything along the way, including how evil humans can be, joined MANTIS and became a Flame Chaser when she found out about Honkai, then at the later end of the story, after the corruption nuked the world I think, Elysia did some confusing plan where she acted as a twist villain, and had Kevin come and kill her so she could go into the Cocoon to manipulate future Herrschers to have the humanity that she had, giving the Herrschers of CE the ability to fight for Humanity, which is how Kiana, Mei, and Bronya could gain Herrscher powers without (mostly, except for Void) going insane and going on a murderous rampage, and how Senti could end up becoming a good guy.
That’s how I understood the events of Elysia’s life and death as it was stated in the game.
@@AnArtistInAVoid Kevin didn't kill her, first of all, she simply died. Second - Ego given by Elysia to Herrschers is just a choice. Sirin was actually a free person - she simply chose destruction, and regretted it in the end of Second Eruption. True Herrschers of PE couldn't choose anything - their personality was taken away by Cocoon projections, human flesh didn't manage to contain it even with the help of Imaginary. Elysia is an anomaly in that regard, as I said previously. But it's a human view - maybe Cocoon is a Shakespearean monkey that managed to write Hamlet, or constructor of Chinese room(thought experiment) that somehow managed to break the concept of said room. But it is the root of all anomalies nonetheless, reincarnation of all things in the world, as game has put it.
Its wild cause i thought that nihility and harmony were opposites bc of acheron’s juxtaposition with penacony, but the pairs you laid out here make way more sense 😮
Beauty makes way more sense now and your explanation of rememberance permanence and preservation really makes them feel more distinct
Remembrance and Permenance also kinda makes sense with march 7th and Dan heng. Also, Black Swan's comment to Dan heng in the recent story.
@@kappakeepo4935 truuu
What did she say?
The part about one Aeon ascending to balance out another is also adds to the Preservation/Destruction dynamic. The IPC spans several galaxies, with so much reach and uncontested power. It stands to reason that their biggest obstacle would come about from a faction hell bent on annihilating life wherever they contact it, the Antimatter Legion.
The way you pronounce "Argenti" and "Longitude" is legitimately sending me
I'm genuinely amazed at Ashikai's goal to use the pronunciation closest to what the source language would be. Argenti being Latin for silver and all that
@@batsybatsybats_ i can't say if it's the case here or not, but i think often times it's just her not knowing how to pronounce things. I believe she's mentioned a few times how she just struggles with some names.
Plus, argent is also silver in French, where we say ar-gen-tee
@@batsybatsybats_if that was the intention then power to her but knowing that the English dub is consistent with Argenti’s name (unlike some with Seele being kinda inconsistent with “Zeele” and “Seala” due to HI3rd etc) it’s a little noticeable to me personally
Nanook and Qlipoth kinda make sense now when you realized , that Mihoyo have used their profit to invested in Nuclear Fusion power company.
A good investment if I have to say so, it is the best source of energy we are just now starting to become capable of!
@@Yuki_Ika7 it is , iirc Mihoyo give that company about 60 millions dollars for the research . Kinda surprised to see CEO of a game company have a vision for human future like this rather than just purely for profit .
@@Koyuki_Yukihime Hoyoverse aims to become the IPC IRL
Mom come quick a new Ashikai video just dropped
The explanation for Nanook and Qlipoth truly surprised me, and I find it very interesting. Perhaps that's why THEY are both associated with fire since fire is heat and heat is the simplest form of energy in the context of matter (hence the term "heat death"), and that's the energy they are both fighting over.
Ashikai I really appreciate your videos, especially this kind of topic: HSR Lore!
I haven't fully understood all of them yet but it tickles my brain and it's an enjoyable video to watch!
Thank you!
Ashikai: Aeons Come in Pairs 😌
Me: You're right, Lan/Yaoshi OTP fr 😩👌❤🔥
16:28 Extracted their (second)concept, I think I know exactly what that means, Tazzyronth was originally from the path of permanence but when long fell, Tazzyronth disected a part of the path of permanence to form the path of propagation and ascended to aeonhood, so qlipoth extracted their second concept which would be the propagation so that no one can follow it's path after Tazzyronth and the Swarm got sealed. But that's just my idea onthe last part.
There was an easier way to summarize the relationship between the trailblaze and the finality:
The trailblaze is the path of moving forward, the finality is the path of moving backwards.
Also
Trailblaze represents the past and beginning the alpha ,Finality represents the furture,the end the omega,and the mc Trailblazer represents both they are the middle the present everything is up to our choice,they will ascended to Aeonhood what Eilo had in mind
Trailblazers care most about the journey, whereas Finality people only care about the destination. The Nameless seem to care more about the process of how you do things, sometimes taking worse results to help do something properly, whereas The Stelleron Hunter are going through the motions to get the ending they want, dealing with the downsides of the process and sticking to the script regardless of their situation.
Also, the Journey vs Destination argument.
@@Josh-qt5zi No, I would disagree. Trailblaze is the journey, the middle.
It's the finality which is both the end and origin if anything.
A terminal is both an ending point and a starting point. Which was the point they were making.
The connection between Harmony and Elation reminds me of Robin and Sparkle being a counterpart of eachother.
Robin is a performer and Sparkle, as seen in her trailer, was (and still technically is) a performer, but they both went down onto different paths.
Robin being shown as a bird inside a cage and Sparkle's theme includes flying koi fish.
I agree the path of beauty is about appreciation
it's also pretty interesting to elaborate on how both Harmony and Order are represented by music. Both are the core principles behind music.
The point about Qlipoth being conversation of energy hit me like a truck considering Jade’s stoneheart power is literally converting peoples dreams to reality by taking something from them in equal exchange, a literal metaphysical conversion. I bet with the other stoneheart powers you could draw these same conclusions in some way
Interesting to see a video on a theory I've done! Though here, the pairings are much better than what I've thought up. Equilibrium being a matchmaker Path, instead paired by itself, makes a lot of sense. Trailblaze/Finality being opposites was confirmed canon in recent patches as well.
Though I am disappointed that you failed to mention that Mythus ascended to _directly counter_ Nous' Moments. It's like. the one canon thing to this opposite pairing. It is not just "known" and "unknown" but "knowing too much can mean fate becomes predetermined".
I also find it interesting you bring up Order no longer constituting the equilibrium HooH desires. I did not think that through on my pairings and initially paired Order with Beauty as per process of elimination.
Lastly, a pitfall a lot of theories like these make is not considering the time of when an Aeon ascends. It's very clear with things like the Swarm Disaster, Nous' ascension with Moments, and Destruction and its Stellarons that Equilibrium is not ALWAYS present. A balance is not always guaranteed unless everything is always *_Orderly_* and that is definitely not what Equilibrium is. So Aeons ascending always tip the balance all the time.
I would even go as far to say that currently, the universe is _not_ in Equilibrium. Because if it was, why the hell are we going to face Nanook? Wouldn't that screw up Equilibrium? Then the only reason we're fated to do that is because it is a part of HooH's Equilibrium for the Destruction to eventually cease at the end of our journey.
For Permanence I believe that it's actually explained that Lan believes in the Permanence of bloodline or Legacy, when he was alive it was said that the Viddyahara couldn't reincarnate like they do now, and they could procreate. It was only recently that they lose that ability and got their reincarnation cycles.
I'm pretty sure that it's explicitly mentioned that Akivili travelled the cosmos to connect civilizations!
Sampo as a hinted Masked Fool doesn't like causing chaos, instead trying to create laughter and smiles which would divert The Elation.
Masked Fools are hedonistic, seeking to do things that amuse them for the sake of it. Sampo likes stealing and scamming people out of money as seen in Belabog, but that just be a mask he puts on there given his 4th wall cutscene. It's possible that with his 4th wall awareness he had a Monika DDLC moment, but has solidified what he wants to be "playing my role the best I can". He still causes chaos in the museum side quest among other things.
@@derpfluidvariant0916 Dam.. I need to check my game files
You mentioned at the start that HooH meddles to balance the Aeons, so what if they're not necessarily opposites but just that, balances. That would mean that Permanence and Remembrance are additive to create a balanced whole. Permanence forgoes the immaterial for the material. Great. Now there's all this immaterial stuff that's forgotten. So, there's Remembrance that takes the immaterial. or vice versa.
The explanation of the Destruction as entropy finally brings some sense to our Trailblazer drawing Nanook's gaze. Nanook sees the Trailblazer as a catalyst for change and disorder in the universe, the same as the stellaron inside of them. Excellent analysis!
I also think you can find ways to pair all the aeons, since they represent broad concepts. like aha and IX maybe representing Hedonism and nihilism for example
For Permanence and Remembrance, I think it’s that Permanence is all about maintaining one’s existence while Remembrance is about remembering existences that have already passed. While Remembrance is looking back on things that have already faded away, on things that have already passed, Permanence ensures that they never will fade. It’s Permanence vs Transience.
As acheron said the nihility turns of the powers of the other paths, so would its opposite "the beauty" make other paths stronger. this could be why idrilla has disappeared being taken by another Aeon for her power boosting abilities. It could fit if you think of her as the princess in the tower explain her knights search for her to rescue her from the evil dragon (the other aeon). for her captor's identity perhaps Nanook Qlipoth or Oroboros make sense in my mind.
Ouroboros is dead during the Propagation war.
@@Doflaminguard Where did you get that information bro? Ouroboros simply vanished and was never confirmed dead after the Swarm Disaster, get your facts right, Enigmata peep.
Ashikai HSR theories we're so back!
Your interpretation of preservation is really eye opening and mesmerizing like wow. This really opens up our understanding of the ipc that dedicate themselves to "preservation". If the concept is more about perfect preservation and less about protection, the ipc really does fit the prior concept more: resources and profit over well being of the universe. It's really more about the priority of keeping materials and natural recourses unwasted rather than the protection of life itself. This might be why the ipc can be viewed as greedy and cruel through their actions because humane peace is never their priority, the "peace" they promised only comes about through good resource management via their diplomatic business ways (dk how to word this correctly but hopefully you get it). They cannot stand a planet dying not because they care about life but because they cannot let a perfectly good resource bank go to waste; not to preserve life but preserve stocks and recourses. That's just what I think tho, pls feel free to correct me on any statements hihi.
YAY! Aeon lore! :D Ashikai is back with another video of H:SR,wake up, y'all!
THANK YOU. This video perfectly puts into words some of the interesting themes I’ve noticed. One very notable thing that validates your theories about Nanook and the Stellaron representing entropy is heavily supported by Hi3.
The Stellaron disasters have quite a few similarities to the Honkai eruptions, (though in fairness Honkai is more closely linked to Finality). But notably, one of the major revelations of Hi3’s final arc is that the Honkai IS civilization, it is civilization that has ascended far beyond human comprehension that either destroys or assimilates any other civilization it encounters, and civilization brings entropy.
Also, since the Aeons are very likely microcosmic beings, it’s quite likely that Elysia from Hi3 may have some connections to the trailblaze.
Finally “End is an Origin, and Origin is and End”
The big train we ride is pretty clear in reference or actually is the Cosmic Juggernaut divine key from honkai 3rd. (Made using the core of the herrsher of the void)
So the idea of spacetime manipulation is pretty legit.
I think elation vs harmony can be boiled down to individualism VS socialism, To be in Harmony means accommodating and understanding the needs of others, not just yourself, To be in harmony means tolerating others, even if that means denying yourself what you want. while the path of elation chases your own happiness (whatever form it may be, no matter how twisted it is) over everything else, even at the expense or harm of others
It’s not socialism it’s collectivism
why socialism 💀
I think Firefly mentioned that Trailblazers and Finality are same side of coin , light and darkness
Another thing of note for the nihility vs beauty. Acheron say that red is the only thing of color left to her, kinda the proof that she isn't swallow yet by nihility and Argenti main color is red.
Elation is about the fun of an individual person. It isn't about making anyone happy, but yourself. Everyone be damned.
That is why Sparkle reprehends Sampo for having lines he wouldn't cross, because he cared about something other than his own egotistical fun and laughter.
That is also why the masked fools just cause chaos.
I think I personally saw Remembrance and Enigmata being directly opposed instead. One is focused on the preservation of memory and history, while the other is keen on destroying or distorting it.
I think Finality and Permanence go together more smoothly, one being the infinite prolonging of existence and the other being the guaranteed end of it.
This does leave the problem of Erudition and Trailblaze, which don't really slot together. It's a stretch and a half, but Nous can simply calculate everything using it's intelligence. The trailblaze thrives in NOT knowing, in adventure and discovery. After all, you can't blaze a trail that's already been travelled.
I really enjoyed your video! HSR lore really gets me going lol
The way you described trailblaze is actually closer to how Enigmata operates rather than just distorting it. The Historical Fictionologists change and manipulate history because they believe that once everything is known and understood, the future will be set in stone. They change things to prevent people from truly knowing the whole past, because they believe it will cause them to completely know their future as well. THEY see knowing everything as a lose condition, whereas Nous sees it as the win condition. THEY work as a pair.
Wasnt expecting a HSR theory anytime soon, but im very happy its here!
I think elation refers more to an intense emotion rather than joy specifically. The mourning actors are in fact aligned with Aha's principles even though they believe themselves to apposed to them. That's also why every masked fool has their own interpretation of the path.
I personally have always considered Elation and Nihility to be opposite to each others, as in their conception, they are both opposite reactions to the fact that the universe is ultimately meaningless. Aha's reaction is indulgence, and IX's is depression.
I think you can see Aha vs. Xipe as pleasure (as in the immediate gratification of the senses or the amusement of the mind) vs. true happiness (something that isn't about immediate gratification but has to be carefully cultivated, often requiring some amount of effort and sacrifice).
You can just think of it as short-term vs. long-term gratification.
This somewhat overlaps with the chaos vs. order or selfishness vs. selflessness dichotomies (and frankly I think Elation and Harmony are supposed to encompass and synthesise all these oppositions), but I think these two things have a big enough history of being put back-to-back in philosophy and fit the two paths enough for it to be mentioned.
(See Aristotle's hierarchy of goods and all of epicurean philosophy for more)
For me preservation and destruction can be summarized as destruction means changing in entropic way (no way back) when preservation tries to hinder that.
The path of Qliphoth in the Spanish localization is called ''Conservación'' which translates to conservation.
The Chinese language is extremely complicated and because of this it is rare to find a localization without errors.
The last pair of aeons literally spell = kyubey and magical girls wishes 😮
The true twist of honkai star rail is kyubey is nanook and madoka is qlipoth.
This video is very fun imo. In particular, the thing about the Annihilation Gang not actually being part of the Destruction due to the fact that they don't entirely understand the purpose of the Destruction.
I find the idea of a faction proclaiming to follow a path while not fully understanding it really aligns, in my opinion, with the IPC. While they proclaim to follow the Preservation, their actions are more similar to the Voracity. A corporation that saves worlds in turn for brutal conditions that usually end up benefiting the corporation more than the people of the planet doesn't really sound like the idea of preservation or conservation.
While there are obviously characters that do truly believe in preserving planets(Topaz and maybe Aventurine), there are also characters in higher up positions within the IPC that clearly reflect the Voracity(Jade and her common motif of snakes(Ouroboros is ALSO a snake/serpent)).
As well, the Belobog story has the player, and by extension Jarilo -IV, receive a glance from Qlipoth, but in the trailblaze continuance we see Belobog and the IPC butting heads despite allegedly following the same path. Even more so, Topaz who truly believes in the IPC and the Preservation ends up giving up in claiming Jarilo-IV, showing that the IPC's idea of Preservation likely doesn't align fully with Qlipoth.
Thank you so much for this! Your explanation of beauty and Nihility helped me to understand why I disliked Argenti from his trailer and pulled for him the second I finished his story. He's an =existentialist=. I loved him for finding beauty in a plant. I loved him because of his tragic decision to walk the path of beauty despite the fact that his Aeon is dead. He has determined what is important to him, despite knowing it will likely be fruitless. He promotes beauty in all things because, as an existentialist, that's what he has defined for himself as important. Thanks for allowing this puzzle piece to fall into place for me.
One could also make an insight that the Finality runs counter to the Trailblaze: moving backwards in time as opposed to the Trailblaze always marching ahead. Also, you did manage to touch on the old bits from Hi3rd, that Finality is and Origin, and Origin is a Finality, traveling back and forth on the same road, meeting each other and passing them by, and returning to the same place once again.
Yeah, I don’t think it’s any surprise that the faction that is most associated with the Astral Express crew is the one heavily implied to follow Terminus the Finality.
You match Qingque's voice so well I'm just imagining her narrating this entire video
I think theres a better interpretation for what Elation is and it comes from the myriad celestia trailer fables about the stars.
When you have the subtitles and it shows the Elation the subtitle we get is "Look upon the courtesans' extravagance(Hedonism)", thats is what i believe the path is about, Hedonism.
as someone who really enjoys physics (and one day hopes to pursue physics) this video is super entertaining because it seamlessly combines both hsr and physics. i especially enjoyed the conservation and waste part!
Can't believe you called the Trailblaze/Finality duality before the 2.4 program basically confirmed it (assuming this was pre-recorded)
I mean its kinda on the nose.
One is about experiencing possibilities and freedom and the other is about always arriving in the same spot no matter what youre doing cause its all predetermined
I agree with your Aha and Xipe pairing
As Elation path is pursuit of self desire that you live for you in the moment while Harmony path is a path of coexistance and companionship for betterment of the future
Yup, Elation is being selfish and Harmony is well, unity.
We know that Aeons can consume/overtake each other if one path is broader than the other. Like what Harmony did to Order. Harmony, Preservation and Abundance are all similar to each other. So I do hope we get a moment someday in the story where Xipe may try to absorb Abundance or preservation.
They are too diferent, i can see harmony absorbing the beuty, but preservation and abundance are not much alike
Apparently during that conversation where Kafka tells you about Harmony assimilating Order she can also tell you that Propagation was split off from the Path of Permanence by Tayzzyronth when they ascended. What's more is that apparently Yaoshi didn't exist during the Swarm Disaster, so I wonder if Abundance is what was left after Propagation split off?
I’d say the xipe and aha works fine.
Despite aha wanting to explore anything that makes them happy, emotions are simply their cornerstone to their existence. And from what we know from about Penacony 2.2 story, when we were inside the three phases of Sunday’s mind: there was a moment where we couldn’t use clockwork to change the puppet’s emotions; their gears and limbs were bind by strings via ena’s order. Taking this into consideration, and also by the fact that Xipe did absorb Ena (and their traits), not to mention how strings are present for both aeons as musical instruments to Xipe and as puppets to ena. But I digress, we can infer that Xipe is the opposing factor to Aha, though not entirely to bind their (aha’s) emotions but there’s some order to Xipe that nulls aha’s sporadic mess. This applies in the designs of both aeons, the evident display of organized puzzle pieces in Xipe’s design has some order to them, in contrast to the unpredictable chaotic patterns in aha’s.
Something interesting to point out, is that the word finality have other meaning in some languages, which i think this meaning connects really strongly to the path of destruction.
I'm not an english native speaker, so when i heard about the "path of finality" within the game, my interpretation was completely different from yours.
So, finality in some languages can also be defined as "The means to achieve something or, a certain ending".
And i think this meaning fits the Stellaron Hunters much better, as they are controlling the present through the TB, to stop end of their universe.
And with this concept in mind, i think Finality would actually oppose Destruction, as the emphasis of Destruction would be the end, while the emphasis of Finality would be how we would get to that end.
*Lan & Yaoshi:*
Predator hunting down the prey
*Nous & Mythus:*
Writing facts or making fiction
*Tayzzyronth & Ouroboros:*
Endless production and consumption of food
*IX & Idrila:*
Seeing the beauty or lack thereof in all things
*Long & Fuli:*
Material immortality or immaterial immortality through memory
*Aha & Xipe:*
Cosmic discord and balance of happiness
*Qlipoth & Nanook:*
Sustaining or decaying the universe’s lifespan
*Akivili & Terminus:*
The interstellar journey and inevitable destination
I can't imagine that gremlin being capable of yapping that much...
I really liked the video. Most of it feels logical, and also kinda explains why Sunday would be so disdained by the presence of Sparkle.
And I was also convinced to pull for the stupid knight boy. His path is truly beautiful, but gosh dang, is he bad of explaining himself.
He being an emanator would make a convincing explanation to why he is capable of so many impossible acts in the canon.
And I still believe the IPC got infiltrated by worshippers of the Voracity. Even with Qlipoth's recontextualization, their actions of expansion and accumulation makes next to no sense.
Oh you were right! In this version when you click terminus vision the button to skip the story requirement to straight up start the event and get the new march 7th, it directly states how the finality is the antithesis of the trailblaze as it’s just directly the end, instead of the possibility of change and choice brought by the trailblaze when you do the story
4:20 (nice)
how have I never seen anyone refer back to this scene with Kafka before? She heavily and pretty obviously in hindsight foreshadowed the penacony plot. She’s part of the faction that just knows the future and she went „oh btw Xipe absorbed ena“ and I’ve seen literally NOONE mention this.
That’s so crazy to me
Great video as always, though some points are argueble. Just wanna share my thoughts on one.
As I see it, even though Aha is pretty chaotic, I don't think it's the essence of what he is. In my opinion, Aha might represent emotions in general (which technically none of the other Aeons does). Path of Elation, despite focusing on joy (which often, but not always comes from various chaotic actions), also includes the Mourning Actors, who's philosophy is completely different from the Masked Fools. And Aha themselves shown to express more than simple desire to sow chaos (mostly curiosity and boredom though), and even involves themselves in global events like Swarm Disaster.
But, of course this all is open to interpretation, so at the moment with, the limited information we have, any theory can be valid. Hope we'll see more of Aeons lore soon!
Around 4:40 the presumption of "Harmony being a broader concept that involves Order " , i would have looked at it the traditional way (as in European myths) in which a deity taking over concept/dominion of another deity after death or vanishing , and not as a proof of dominion taken over by inheritor necessarily means that the the dominion itself was subservient to the one of the inheritor
OMG NEW ASHIKAI VIDEO JUST DROPPED
You won't believe just how excited I was when I woke up randomly at 1 am, checked my phone and saw the notification for this video. When trying to fall asleep again (I was so excited, it took a while lol), I prayed that this video was going to be about what I hoped it would be about and lo and behold, you delivered. The opposing nature of the Paths and Aeons just so happens to be one of my current hyperfixations that at this point has lasted for MONTHS! Also, we came to mostly the same conclusions about which Paths/Aeons oppose each other. In addition to what you already said in the video, I'd like to add that I personally think that the Elation is not only about the pursuit of ultimate/extreme joy, pleasure and chaos (as you already stated) but also the fact that the Elation seems to incorporate the pursuit of negative emotions such as fear, grief, hatred, anger, etc. as well. My evidence is the fact that the Mourning Actors, who particularly started to indulge in grief to oppose Aha, ended up becoming a part of the Elation as well (Aha just laughed at their grief, They were entertained). So Elation, to me, seems to be about indulging in and pursuing extremes of a variety of emotions which end up causing chaos and entertain Aha and Their followers (which makes sense when you consider the fact that Sparkle, a Masked Fool, plays russian roullette with herself in her trailer, which presumably causes her to feel extreme emotions of fear and pleasure, all so she can be entertained). Because of that, a possible opposing match for Aha the Elation could also be IX the Nihility, since Their apathy is the direct opposite of extreme emotion! Just some food for thought.
I also really liked how you pointed out the fact that HooH the Equilibrium might be the reason why we are able to pair up the Aeons like this in the first place, since I hadn't thought about that. Anyway, I've been going on about this for a while, so in conclusion, I LOVE THIS VIDEO!!!!!!
bruhhh, renaming the preservation as the conservation suddenly makes sense why he would create the intergalactic centre of economy; he wanted to conserve the value of money.
That whasn't Qlipoths idea though. The IPC whas born from believers who gathered building material as tribute (even if it doesn't seem like Qlipoth ever uses said material). But with the idea here that Preservation can be understood as conservation it makes sense that Qlipoth would still glance at the IPC Stonehearts and why the flow of credits (potential energy/work) would manifest as actual power.
@@Weremole exactly, Qlipoth's ideal would actually be AGAINST what the IPC is doing.
@@TheJH1015 all of the Paths have a faction that opposes its Aeon's goal (except harmony since that would basically already conflict with its path, unity yada yada yada)
@@WeremoleThe IPC is more like Voracity with how greedy they are -.-. The new pv also shows opal literally extracting gold from their colony bri
Qlipoth actually dont care about the IPC. Qlipoth's preservation is about human civilization. The reason it keeps hammering is because it is building a wall against Leviathans.
Its almost like the path of beauty is a reference to hi3’s motto
May all the beauty be blessed