How a Two Stage Furnace Works
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- Опубликовано: 28 июл 2024
- How a two stage furnace works. What makes a two stage furnace any different than a regular furnace? Are the components any different? In this video I go over what a two stage furnace is, how it works, and what extra or different components it has.
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Just subscribed and watched a bunch of your videos. You do an awesome job, right to the point, thanks!
Thank you! :)
Almost every time i search for information, one of your videos shows up. Thanks for all you do making videos
Thank you young man for the information. Regarding two-stage furnaces you educated a 70 year old man
You are a real good at explaining the furnace and very articulate . Thank You
Thanks Jay, for your extraordinary guidance. I've used your videos to help me fix my furnace twice and both times I remembered your goodwill and selflessness.
You're welcome! I appreciate your kind words and am happy to hear that my videos have helped you fix your furnace! Stay warm! :)
That was great. I work for a large thermostat company and I found this helpful with my learning. Also, I love the NFS 3 soundtrack! Great memories playing knock-out with the F355 on that game.
Man I love your videos. You give the best advice man. I always look forward to learning from you man. Thank you so much for all the advice you share!!!!!
just got a two stage, great explanation! thank you!
Good explanation on this thank you.
Nice vid! Right to the point and clear explanation in simple terms. Wish more would follow your lead.
You guy are an awesome teacher no doubt.
Great video.the guy is very knowledgeable.
Thanks for an excellent explanation.
Great one again THANKS FRIEND
Great video 👍
Great info, thanks.
FYI, the second stage is more efficient but it short runs which means less humidity is removed making the occupants feel less comfortable and it also is more wear on the furnace parts. In the north high efficiency is more cost effective. I just learned this from another great teacher.
I believe you're talking about removal of heat (A/C), whereas this guy is talking about addition of heat (furnace). Removal of heat also removes moisture, addition of heat often coincides with addition of moisture (humidification).
very good explanation sir
Your videos are great, it helps me a lot. Can u do a video to why a two stage furnace will not go into high fire. Thank you
awesome vids, thanks form argentina buenos aires.
Great video thanks
It would be great if you have a tutorial on wiring a 2stage unit compressor , condenser & thermostat
Love your videos
Thanks for your video, it's very informative and educational! I have a single-stage furnace, is it practical or economical, or doable to convert it from a single to dual-stage? and is there someone doing that? Thanks for your reply.
Thanks for the education brother!!
Thanks for explaining. More to go wrong on the heart of the home. I like single stage 80% furnaces. May gas bill is about $55 a month so 20% savings if I were to get that from two stage, would take quite a while to make up for the added cost and repair bills. Just my opinion.
Hello Jay. Thank you for the informative video. It seems to me that certain thermostats would not work well with two-stage. For example, the Google Nest, which requires at least 1.5 degree delta from the set point before it turns on. (can't be adjusted - many online complaints about this). For the low-fire position to answer the call, seems to me that a 0.5 to 0.7 degree delta from the set point would be more effective at firing the furnace in time for the low-fire can satisfy the demand. (most of the time ...)
Can you do videos on hydronic atmospheric natural gas boilers we have a ton of these in the Northeast region and your videos really help me learn gas as I do mostly oil burners. Thanks
Sorry Enzo, but I don't work on enough boilers to be able to give sound advice on them. I mostly service residential forced air furnaces so that's why all my videos only talk about them.
Thanks!
Nice 👍 I like yours videos, Can you do a video reading a schematic?
Thank you! That is a good idea! I have a long list of videos to make but I will add that to the list as well.
What do furnace controller boards expect? What I want to know is, if I want to go into stage 2, is it sufficient to connect the stage 2 circuit, or would I have to connect both the stage 1 and stage 2 circuits? What I want to do is have a go at writing my own programming using a commercial relay board (think either a network attached relay controller, or a Raspberry Pi with a relay HAT), and want to know which relays I would have to close: if the one would be sufficient or if I have to close both to get the second stage.
Any advice on how to connect a 2 stage heat pump to a 2 stage gas furnace? Thanks
Thank you
Question . .. How is the connection between the thermostat and the IFC on a two stage furnace?
I have a Goodman GMH80905CN which is a two stage 80%, 80k BTU 4 burners and only have one pressure switch -.75 PF. I don’t turn my thermostat any higher than 58 in my house ya I know that’s cold but I don’t think I have ever heard my furnace kick into the 2nd stage hope I get a longer life out of the heat exchanger? I heard by early 2023 they will phase out 80% furnaces thinking of buying another one for the future don’t like the 90% and greater furnaces at all.
Do you have any videos on heat exchangers? I thought I had seen one before but cant find it.
When I built my house in 2007 I had a 2 stage gas furnace with a Heat Pump installed, I suspect it was installed as a single stage either at the furnace or in the thermostat. How can I know if my 2 stage was setup incorrectly as a single stage? I am now installing an ECOBEE thermostat and it is indicating mine is single stage. Any Advice? Thanks and great video!
Thanks so much I did learn a lot from you
Is 2 stages require 2 pvc pipe also is really save you money and is there parts way too much expensive
Excellent explanation and video. I used to have a one stage furnace and recently replaced with a 2 stage. My main motivation was that with a one stage my family room would go to very high temp quickly (thermostat in hallway) and I was hoping that the 2 stage would heat up the family room more gently and I would not get so much of the high/low of temperature and the low stage would heat more gently. I live in northern California btw. But I did not experience that. When I told that to the Hvac installer he told me that I should have installed a multi-speed if I wanted more evenness. Anyway too late. Recently (2 years later) when told the furnace's technician who had come to fix a minor problem about my unhappiness he checked and said that it was never installed as a two stage but a one stage. So apparently he fixed it but I am not seeing much of a difference.
2 questions:
Q1. How do you tell if the 2 stage is correctly configured? E.g see if the heat level coming out of a vent suddenly jumps after 15 minutes?
Q2. Is it possible to configure the 15 min transition from stage 1 to stage 2 to say 25 minutes. Or better still can the 2 stage be controlled by the difference in temperature (ie temp in room to temp set on thermostat - does the thermostat send this info to the furnace?).. I have a Lenox SL280DFV and a Nest 3rd generation thermostat. The W1 wire is connected BUT there is NO w2 wire (even though they put a brand new wire looks like they did not have enough strands).
I have a two zone system (both with nest 3rd gen) and a Honeywell HZ322 TrueZone which is suppose to support 2 stage furnace/AC for up to 3 zones
2-stage does not save fuel, it burns less gas over a longer period of time. It's for comfort.
Technically the steady state efficiency can be a little lower on low fire but that's offset by fewer on/off cycles so it's a wash.
You mentioned a 10 minute time delay - if you value your customers, sell them 2-stage thermostats so high is only brought on when it's needed and there's the ability to drop back down to low fire. The whole idea is to get continuous operation in very cold weather.
DOE and ASHRAE found that 2 stage furnaces use slightly less gas but more electricity, overall slightly more energy.
Residential Two-Stage Gas Furnaces: Do They Save Energy? Alex Lekov, Victor Franco, and James Lutz Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
@@buer444 psc motors are inefficient on lower speeds. ecms should use the same amount of electricity or less on 2-stage as 1-stage when airflow is kept proportional to heat output. probably less because power goes up by the cube as you try to increase airflow on a given duct system.
@@Jon-hx7pe Agreed I just wanted to point out that energy saving with a 2-stage furnace is small if any. Almost everyone I have talked to lately has said they bought a 2-stage because it saved money and this video says the same. As it turns out with covid 1-stage is hard to find.
@@buer444 they get improved comfort especially when properly sized and controlled by a 2-stage thermostat. contractors forget about comfort and noise levels, think the idea is to quickly satisfy and shut down, that bigger is better.
@@Jon-hx7pe Again no argument. Two contractors have told me that a two-stage thermostat is a problem in my house. I assume it's a problem with wiring and didn't think to ask more. So the furnace will run 10 or 15 minutes on one and then jump to 2nd stage so I see little advantage in spending $400 more.
Increasingly, I see HVACers recommending the ol' 80 furnace, due primarily due to much less service costs over its lifetime vs the >90 efficient furnaces. In essence, over a 20 year life, the argument is that the ROI doesn't work out for 90's, but do work out for the 80's. Can you offer your experience to this? Thanks for all that you do.
He has a vid on it, he prefers 80 cost wise
Which inducer motor is that (model) and any idea where to purchase? I have the XV80. I like the format of this inducer motor better than mine with the metal fan in plastic cage.
Jay great video. I have the exact furnace that is over 20 years old. I believe my gas valve is sticking resulting in misfiring and I am not getting a higher gas flow on stage 2. Can you tell me the model number for that gas valve or a suitable replacement? It’s not visible on my valve. I’m having a difficult time finding it online. Thank you!
Is it normal to see a pilot light slightly lit when not calling for Hot water? If not how should I fix this issue?
Hey man how you doing, I want to thank you for the video it's very helpful, by any chance do you have the diagram of how to wire the 2 stage thermostat from the board.. Thank you, or any of you videos where you explain that..
What's the difference in thermostat wiring?
I have a two-stage furnace, I bought the new "nest" thermostat. It does not have a lead "w2" just a "W" lead.
how do I hook it up ? connect the W2 wire to the nest " W" terminal , or just hook up the " W1" lead and spare out the W2 lead from heater ?
What is the three stages heat pomp?
what if it seems not to go to the second stage. therostate is turned way up and can only get to 60. thanks
Why do you need a different pressure switch for each stage? Is it because the inducer motor speeds up in different stages?
Is the 2 stage furnace really more efficient, or does it just maintain more even heating? I've heard stories that a two stage furnace can dramatically increase gas bills.
What is three stage heating and cooling?
Is there a way wire two stage condenser only bypass 1st stage not cooling enough in high heat 74-78 out vent register
Is the Blower Motor TWO SPEED ?
Thanks for the video..I’ve a two stage furnace and condenser.. my nest thermostat has only one wire Y and W.. could the contractor have set this up for a single stage?
Yes , only one stage is working, for the second stage you need Y2 and W2 connected to the furnace
Would the furnace itself still work with 2 stages based on timing or algorithm, even if the thermostat only has 1 stage? @@excellinc.9951
Hello, I have a Carrier 8000 weathermaker 2 stage furnace, and I would like to know how to wire it up to run only on Hi Stage, the entire time. Could you help me out?
My Dads to stage, was giving me fits, 3 flash code, 8 to 10 seconds after blower starts, the inducer stops. The only way to make it run is on stage 2 with w2 connected to w1. Any idea why it would do this on w1?? Thanks
Armstrong 93 gas upright
I have a 22 year old Ruud stack system that many need replacement (due to a/c compressor short-cycle intermittently furnace ok) with something similar how good is a new Rheem/Ruud complete system?
Do I have to change my thermostat if I change my regular furnace to a two stage furnace? Thanks
The controller built into some 2 stage furnaces has an option to run with a single stage thermostat. They automatically run at stage 1 for some time, realize they've been in stage 1 for that time, and ramp up to stage 2 until the thermostat no longer calls for heat. Some of them are "intelligent" enough to figure out patterns of usage, and will go into stage 2 faster. Think, for example of typical overnight setback. The furnace "knows" it's been off for say 6 hours. It may wait only 5 minutes of being in stage 1 to shift into stage 2 instead of the "normal" 10 minutes.
Of course, a multistage thermostat would be even better, because it "knows" that it is trying to heat up e.g. 7 degrees instead of just e.g. 2, so it can go directly into stage 2 to achieve that 7 degrees faster.
I used to have a white rogers thermostat that showed when the second stage was firing. Went bad and I put a T5 Honeywell for the Wi-Fi ability. Disappointed that it doesn’t show what stage my furnace is on.
Many furnaces control the two or three stages of the firing process. Most current day furnaces do not require a two stage or 3h stage thermostat to control the stages. The System controls the stages with a standard thermostat like Ecobee. Goodman furnaces from 2008 have been doing this for a long time. Carrier, Bryant and ICP are controlled by the board.
I just got a two-stage today and it seems like it just runs a lot? If I set it at 71 it'll hit 71 and just stay there? Guess it is a bit chilly outside in the 20s
low fire is a maintainer - that's the whole idea, replace the heat that's lost, don't overheat and shut down.
Have 2 stage Rheem 96V furnace & 1 stage Nest thermostat - read it’s easy to change furnace to one stage but they didn’t say how - can’t find where read that -
Appreciate any help - Thanx! -
Does the 2 stage variable speed work in ac or just heat mode?
I would like to know the answer to this question also. Why doesn't he answer questions
A lil unrelated but why is there limit switch looking things sometimes but on the flu pipe and blower wheel housing?
The one on the flue pipe is probably a flame roll-out switch. It's there to shut off the furnace if for some reason there is a back-draft and the combustion gases are coming back into the home. (Like in an instance where a chimney cap collapses)
The blower wheel housing limit is typically just a thermal limit. If for some reason it gets too hot in the blower motor compartment, that limit will interrupt the heat call. A burnt out blower motor can get really hot when it tries to start. That's when you get the burnt electrical smell.
Hi, I am having an issue. Why would a furnace not go in to 2-stage anymore? Mine is barely going past 60 F for the last two hours, when previously it used to blast hard. Thank you.
So you don't need a two stage thermostat with a two-stage furnace? The furnace itself will bring on stage 2 after 15 minutes of run time?
Hello @wordofadvise,
My 2 stage systems inducer motor shut-off when high fire pressure switch closes.
Current diagnosis suggests control relay. How to troubleshoot to confirm if that is the case?
Other possibilities are that the a) inducer motor is defective in a way that it can not drive at higher speed or b) second stage gas valve not opening. I feel the next diagnostic point need to be the relay in control board though.
Details:
2003 Bryant 315aav.
Cleaned pressure tubing and checked for other air obstructions. (seem not to be the problem)
Did not had this symptom with older Robertshaw thermostat last year. Symptom present thus year with Sensi WiFi thermostat.
LED diagnostic show 31 : high heat pressure switch or relay did not close or reopen. Control relay ,may be defective. Refer to code #32.
Code 32: check for defective inducer motor, pressure switch, low inducer motor voltage, pressure tubing, inadequate air, low inlet gas pressure.
I have 90% furnace. It has a 2 stage honeywell gas valve with 3 wires coming out. It worked fine last year. 6 months ago I installed a Nest TS. Now when i turn on, the ignitor glows yellow but the furnce does not come on. The W1 is connected on tge terminal strip and W2 is not connected. Do i have to jump W1 and W2 in order for 2 stage gas valve to work??
So the higher the WC rating on the dual pressure switch means low side?
Lower W.C. rating = low fire
Higher W.C rating = high fire
How does 2" Vents works on Furnace Fresh air an Exhaust.
Depending on the btu input and length of pipe including 45's/90's determine the diameter of pipe. There is a table included with the installation guide for every model of furnace that tells you what is required .
Question: Does the two stage furnace have to wire to the thermostat differently? Or is it still just one single heat wire that goes to the furnace? I have a nest gen 3 thermostat with a Goodman 2 stage furnace. But only one heat wire. Shouldn’t I have a second wire going to my W2 thermostat slot?
Yes , a 2 stage furnace needs 5 wires , the w2 has to be connected to your furnace, only 1 stage is working
Is there any cons to keeping your furnace in single stage ? Other than it not being able to keep up on colder days
As far as I know, there are no cons besides that one :)
Word of Advice TV okay thank you brotha, I’ll be keeping mine in low stage then lol
What's the difference if you use less Heat but running longer vs more heat running less?
Shhhh. Smarty pants people get taken away. 😁
Look I got a two stage only due to the 17 Seer rating vs the one stage 13 that I had.
It's quieter and that's it.
Yeah I just got a two-stage today and it just seems to keep runningI know it's really cold outside but it seems like I set it at 71 it'll hit 71 and then go into the slower stage but just keep going, trying to figure how much energy I'll be saving when it seems it take more electricity
Jay, what about the thermostat ? Can a 2 stage run off of a conventional single stage stat? Or does the stat have to be 2 stage as well ?? Thanks.
You can still use a single stage tstat. Just jump W and W2 on the IFC
Is a two stage only good if u have gas furnace. What about a heat pump
Do you need a different thermostat for a 2 stage furnace compared to a 1 stage?
Yes different thermostat
We just have a problem with a 2 stage gas furnace (Trane VX80) which is wired to a one stage thermostat. The 2nd stage is supposed to be one if heat is called for more than 10 minutes. However, it is never one and the furnace keeps running in 1st stage nonstop because set temp. cannot be reached. I measured the Hi terminal on the gas valve and it is never energized. Can the control board be bad? Any idea will be appreciated!
Sorry to hear about the furnace troubles! Does your control board have little dip switches on it? Your furnace manual should have instructions on what each switch is for and in which setting it should be. (if you don't have the manual, you should be able to look it up online) A few of those switches may be related to the two stage options and they are in the wrong position. It could be a bad control board too. This one is a bit challenging to guess without being there..
I bought 2 stage multispeed goodman GMEC961005cn recently. Its blower shuts off right away when fire goes off although ductwork is quite hot. Thermostat reach and maintain desired temperature too. Looks like more on and off cycles. Blower suppose to stay on for 2-3 min after fire shuts off. Heater fan delay dip switch is ON. Most of other dip switches are ON with no luck yet. What could be problem and fix if anybody face same problem?
GMEC961005CN is not a 2 stage furnace, it’s 1 stage gas furnace
We figured it out. Thermostat wiring was wring.
How many heat anticipators are in a 2-stage?
Do you mean the heat anticipators in the thermostat? Or is that a different name for the hi-limit? If you are talking about the fan limit/hi-limit, there is just one.
So the 2 stage furnace will run for 15min at low stage while a single high stage would have got the same job done in less than half that time, so where's the savings?
It's all about time and volume of gas usage. It may satisfy the call for heat at 60% thus reducing the gas consumption. Remember you are billed at how many revolutions the meter completes in a billing cycle and by reducing (slowing the meter) will reduce the bill.
The savings is not there. The longer run time is to reduce short cycles and to remove humidity which improves comfort. Short cycles would cause more wear and tear.
The theory is that you increase longevity of the furnace heat exchanger by fewer extreme heat-cool cycles, and longer run times for the fan. This also decreases the amplitude of the sine-wave you get when you plot the temperature in your home: the two-stage doesn't let the house get as cool. And when it runs, it runs very quietly. No whoosh when the furnace fan kicks in.
Keeps the home more comfortable. Does that save energy? Depends on the particular installation, the thermostat used, the outdoor temperature, and the home's ducts.
Yea a blast of hot heat and big temperature swings are great, enjoy your single stage
800th person to like! Great video!
i have a 2 stage furnace it never goings into the second stage
Sorry, but I am hoping for a little help.
I need to replace the motherboard in my unit, but can't seem to find the part.
I am looking for the OEM, Generic and the Refurbished versions.
My unit is a Luxaire Model FL9T080B12UP.
If you happen to know how I can get the part numbers for each type of board, I would really appreciate it.
If the pressure switches are .17 and .5 inches of water then the ratio is (.17/.5=.34) so how does stage one reach 65% of max output? Thanks in advance.
Question.... do I need a different thermostat?
Usually no. The control board takes care of the staging aspect of it. Although there are 2 stage thermostats out there..
@@WordofAdviceTV I have a 2 stage furnace and and ecobee which has a W-2 terminal. The terminal block on the furnace controller where the thermostat wires connect to doesn't have a w2 terminal for the w2 from the ecobee to connect to. How can the ecobee w2 control the second stage on the furnace?
Can you do fireplace as well
Unfortunately I do not have a fireplace. Maybe later on I can make a video with someone else's. Thanks!
@@WordofAdviceTV thanks buddy
How does a 2stage thermostat work.
Why is the dirt pocket on your furnace so long?
I bought the house 2 years ago and that's just the way it was :)
Seems like the newer furnaces with 2 stage operation would have more components to break down. Also the silicone carbide igniter is easily broken and would need to be replaced. The energy savings is negated by the cost of repair when it breaks down. Older furnaces with fewer and simpler parts like a spark igniter and one stage operation might be minimally less efficient but will probably need fewer repairs.
Sounds about right :) If nothing breaks down then they do turn out to be more efficient. But since the gas valve and inducer for example are 2 stage like you said, whenever they need to be replaced, they are more expensive. I wonder if anyone sat down and did the math to see if the savings are worth the initial extra cost and further maintenance.
@@WordofAdviceTV Then there is the time/energy use factor to consider. It would seem logical that if you run a one stage furnace at full capacity on days that it is less cold outside, then it would not have to run as long as a two stage operating on half capacity. It is all about when the thermostat is satisfied and turns off the gas. Just sayin!
@@JohannnesBrahms
Exactly. Add to that the blower motor operating longer increases electricity use. Quieter operation could be the advantage to low mode.
If I were designing the control system, I would have it sense the difference between the set temperature and the temperature outdoors and select mode based on that difference.
I have had a 2 stage Trane for 8 years with no service calls. On stage one you can hardly hear the blower.
@@tomking1890 That is not unusual for a modern furnace. It is when it gets older that the problems might occur. More operating parts equal more opportunities for things to go wrong. Personally, I don't believe that a two stage unit provides any more value than a traditional one stage. Just my opinion.
What is stage three heating and cooling system for the gas thermos?
Hi, I am getting lots of good information from your work. And I have found other peoples videos that checking gas pressure using manometer? I have recently replaced my two-stage furnace but I didn't see anything that is my HVAC technician checked low or high-pressure test. I use LP gas, I saw he did convert natural gas to LP and changed spring but I didn't see him checking the pressure. Is it ok not checking the pressure? Or do you think I should check it? Can you make a video on how to adjust two-stage furnace using natural gas and LP gas? I do not have manometer, is there a way to check high and low LP gas pressure?
You cannot check gas pressures without a manometer (as far as I know). Most of the time the new gas valve will come factory set to the right levels.. But he did put in a conversion kit so that may have slightly affected it. Did he do a carbon monoxide test in the flu? Also, if the flames are looking pretty sharp and not lazily licking the sides of the burner face plate then most likely it is good. Of course it's always better to check but not mandatory..
@@WordofAdviceTV yes the flames are looking pretty sharp. And I checked the carbon monoxide test using a carbon monoxide detecting device that I can buy from HomeDepot. I lay it down that device just below the furnace and the device didn't react. However, since the furnace is in my attic, I put carbon monoxide detecting alarm device on the floor. Since carbon monoxide is heavier than air, I assume that if the gas leaks from the attic it will fall down to lowest place first. Thanks for your help and I wish many people will get better educated about HVAC systems.
I have a two stage heat pump
Are there 2 stage 80% furnaces?
The one in the video is a good example of just that lol :)
I have one (I think). An AS Heritage 80
Does the 2 stage use the same thermostat? Seems like a call for heat would be the same regardless of how long it takes the furnace to get the temperature there.
I totally forgot to talk about the thermostat. Oops.. But yeah, my thermostat has w1, w2, y1, and y2 terminals for two stage operation.
Word of Advice TV why y1 and y2. Isn’t that cooling ?
@@petertams394 There are 2 stage air conditioners as well
Good but u didn't shove how to wire it cuz on the board u got w1 and w2
Yes, I did forget to talk about that part. Thank you for bringing it up! On some units, the thermostat will be the component responsible for switching the furnace to high stage. (in that case, w1 and w2 would need to be wired separately) But on my unit, w1 and w2 are jumpered and the control board is the one that switches the furnace to high stage via a timer.
I think two stage furnaces have blowers with two stages, yes?
What is the best 80% efficiency furnace? The life expectancy of high efficiency furnaces is only 15 year.
Meanwhile I looking same extra wood for my fireplace bcz winter are around corner 🤣
In summer time. How is two stage work
When the ac running is the. Fan Motor work slow for 15 minutes the. Higher the speed after the 15 minutes or gust for heat