My single stage has worked well for 20 years. No need for more technology to break down and more expense. I'll be replacing it with a single stage when the time comes.
A few years ago a friend got talked into purchasing two fancy heat pump units for his large house. First year he had the service company come out twice for free warranty calls. Next three years he paid a lot of money for at least 4 service calls. Finally took my advice and ran heat on emergency setting using cheap natural gas. His wife is a CPA and went over the winter heating bills including over $600 on service calls. Came out a lot cheaper just using natural gas. He had a very good insulated house with 2 by 6" insulated walls, R50 insulation or higher in attic and all low E quality windows.
In the real world...all of that is true. Selling solar panels is in the same category as heat pumps are. You pay upfront for free power over the time the solar system will live. NOT cheaper in any way but people will believe in it. Heat pumps may not be that more expensive to buy but they will use more power guaranteed and function less effectively.
Generally speaking (in the USA at least), if you have access to natural gas, it's going to be cheaper or very similar operating cost compared to a heat pump system- btu for btu. A traditional 80% furnace is probably the best option for home owners that want to balance reasonable heating cost with longevity of their equipment. Everyone gets excited about heat pumps, but IMO they are more practical to those in a rural setting where natural gas is not available. Many technicians are lazy and do not pressure test or properly evac heat pump systems, leading to a shorter lifespan of the equipment. Also, home owners are pretty ignorant- using your current heating bills as input into a heat cost comparison calculator is where they should start if at all interested in "efficiency" or saving money. In my case, I found it is cheaper to heat with resistance heat than fuel oil, but many people I have talked to about that don't believe the simple math in front of their face!
Going to be interesting in next 10 to 25 years where California , parts of NY state & others are going to outlaw installing any natural gas in new homes followed in 10 to 15 years that existing homes with natural gas must get rid of gas and spend tens of thousands of dollars to upgrade electrical services ( might need a very expensive 300 or 400 amp service if u have 2 EV'S )replace gas furnace, gas dryer, gas water heater & gas stove with guess electric. Worst part lazy foot dragging ultility companies will never have the extra generating stations, high voltage transmission lines or hard to get distribution transformers in time for that do people will have to deal with power blackouts on cold winter days along with hot summer days. California has it all planned out. First they decommissioned their last nuclear plant that generated 12% if states power, then outlawing gasoline generators but will have discount coupons for freezing homeowners to purchase extra thick warm sleeping bags and hand out hand fans to cool themselves while not having power on hot days. Icing on the cake is they will not be able to charge thier EV'S during rolling blackouts and peak energy usage numerous days. No wait California also going to give out discount coupons to purchase expensive 15 speed mountain bikes to get around .
@@JohnThomas-lq5qp I'm a NYS resident- It will be interesting for sure. I just installed a mini split system which is my only heat source (aside from space heaters) and it worked fantastically well this past winter. That being said, next project is a woodstove for when the rolling blackouts hit during polar vortexes. It's crazy to see the amount of heat pump mini splits that have been installed over the past couple years in rural houses, but it is logical to do so due to (update) NYs reasonable electric rates vs propane/fuel oil. At current rates, it's cheaper to heat with resistance heat until fuel oil drops below $4/gallon. IMO the electric cars can be part of the solution when it comes to meeting peak demand- but my biggest concern is cold weather events taking down the grid due to massive spikes in demand... As for banning natural gas in areas where it is available to residences and business- very silly.
This is a very useful explanation. I moved into a new house recently and the HVAC system is 20 years old so I am in the middle of figuring out what to replace it with. Thanks very much.
I live in Minnesota and it gets cold and also very hot and humid. Had my 31 year old Rheem 1 stage system replaced with a High Efficiency Variable Speed Bryant system in November 2019. Yes it was expensive, 3k more then the single stage 80% eff furnace and AC. However, my gas and electricity costs went down 40-50% a month. Xcel said I now have one of the most efficient houses in my neighborhood based on square footage. I never know the system is running inside the house it's so quiet and have to read the thermostat to know if it's heating, cooling, or dehumidifying.
Hopefully you can get a trane variable or a carrier infinity variable. I’ve been inside homes with variable speed systems and the indoor air comfort is unreal because there are no hot or cold spots. You can crank those down to 68 degrees and still not break the bank with your energy bills.
I spoke with a tech from Trane who was really informative, the whole idea of stages is to maintain humidity and temperature. Seer rating is kind of moot because if the ac unit is running constantly, it had to be efficient. If you get a 5 ton ac unit but only need 2 or 3 ton, the temp will go down but the air will still be humid and it shuts off. Something like a variable speed system will work longer at a reduced capacity to pull the humidity out of the air in the home. Depending on the climate you live in having a 26 SEER rated ac unit would take decades to recoup the extra money if you only use it a few months out of the year.
Keep in mind, true Modulating Veriable speed system, are mainly made for Zoning applications, because thats where you can truly take advantage of its effectiveness and efficiency, but if you install the system as single zone it will NEVER RUN at 25% of its capacity, its intelligent processor will fix its speed to meet its certain static pressures. Most important application is proper ductwork design, just my 2 cents my friend.
Depends...in California you will like recoup your money in 2 to 3 years since their power rates are six time higher than the rest of the nation. They are charging .35 to .45 cents per kWh in CA. Adds up fast at maybe $30 a day for 65 kWh's.
Yes, it depends, my old 5 ton single stage failed, I now have a variable speed 3 ton. It paid me back after three years, the best part is most time you can’t even tell it’s on. Is it expensive yes, but a cheaper single stage is way more expensive in the long term.
@@calivalley9056 Repairs and repair costs will out pace a single stage over time too so that should be a factor. Not to mention, how long will those proprietary parts remain available if the variable units will go 20 years long?
In the south where humidity is an issue variable units can save cost if it means you can skip a dehumidifier. The other big piece of the equation that gets glanced over is the variable speed units are the top of the line systems. Usually this means they come with much superior warranties. In turn, stands to reason they are better made.
I disagree, my home's humidity increased drastically, (the unit seems to run based on outdoor temp as far as cooling capacity and indoor coil temp, it can go as high as 54 degrees) so my house was always at 56 percent humidity so I had to get a whole home dehumidifier just to keep it at 45 percent. On top of that, my vrv life system outdoor unit took a crap after 18 months. I was out of service for 30 days while they replaced every motherboard and expansion valve and had to end up replacing entire outdoor unit (compressor). The tech's were clueless even though they installed it, had to rely on tech support for everything. Its not like a single stage where its the fan motor, compressor or the capacitor. This thing has multiple motherboards bigger then whats in a desktop home PC., Not only that but a single stage indoor coil is always going to be in the 30's when it runs so the dehumidification is outstanding.
Would be interesting to know the reliability of 2 stage and variable systems. Would also be good to know how expensive those special sensors, circuit boards and variable speed blower motors are too. There is a huge cost difference from a single stage system so, another $3,000 to $5,000 or up to $8,000 more for those 2 stage and variable has to carry some value or they are simply way over priced for the benefits over a single stage. Those are the thing folks want to know, more benefits? More expensive to fix? Need repairs every year? Part...2 to 3 weeks wait for a proprietary and likely expensive part that is going to be priced at retail. Spending more should include more benefits and way less breakdowns and down times. I don't think they are there yet.
@@naderblack1114 Worth is use case dependent. Too many variables such as current system, cost to upgrade, differential cost between lesser units and ultimately your goal. Is long term return on investment important to you? Or is saving money during install paramount. Inverters will be more expensive than single/2-stage systems. Depending on use and SEER of the unit you could see several thousand back in electrical savings over 10 years. However, that doesn't make up the cost difference. If you monetize the extended warranty "cost savings" you can come out even or a little ahead. However, "comfort" for inverter systems is untouched. If you want the "best" comfort and monthly electrical savings and aren't worried of the initial cost difference its a no-brainer.
I think more then variable and all that is a high class heat pump vs a high class propane / natural gas system. I went from propane to a heat pump variable with backup propane. I save hundreds per month on propane in the winter. but I am guessing if I would of just went from propane furnace to a single stage high efficiency heat pump I would saw cost benefits and in the summer had a system that properly dehumidifies and doesnt' run all day. ( I have a VRV life system that is an inverter based system and it runs all day in the summer wont keep set temp, and at set point of 72 wont start until above 73, and won't stop until below 71. Stays at 73 to 74 all day on a hot summer day. And it doesn't dehumidify worth a damn. House humidity is in the high 50's since it was installed. (because when its in that low mode the indoor coil temp staysin the 50's which won't dehumidify below 50. Unlike a single stage which is in the 30's when its on so it will dehumidify like crazy.
I had one part failure on my two stage system that ate up any savings I received . This , even though the part itself was under warranty. Took a week to get the part during the hottest week in the summer. Technology is great until it breaks.
Great video. I can't tell you how many videos I've sifted through to find one that doesn't push this or that brand, or mini splits vs central AC or list the six best brands.....seriously, six brands that are great? C'mon, who believes that. This video perfectly explains the different technologies, why one may perform better than the other but the differences are small or why this type is easier to fix, etc. I'm going to have mine replaced with a quality single stage unit installed by what will hopefully be a reputable company. Again, great video.
Looking at the performance data on the Copelands two stage compressor I see the first stage may be at 67% capacity but the efficiency is much lower on stage one then stage 2. as always it's always a trade off.
yes, and because there isn't a server farm of electrical components and motherboards its easier to fix and will last 20 years. Just keep it charged replace capacitor and keep the coil clean. use whatever thermostat you want. The opposite is true with the variable systems. I speak form experience after a 30 day outage.
Single stage all the way. And try to not get a microchanel coil. 2 stage and variable speed systems will save you a little bit on your electric bill, but when it breaks you will pay big time, and I assure you, they will break. Pay attention to the warranty. Some manufacturers have parts warranty and some have parts and labor. They do not build ACs like they used to. They break alot more and will need to be repaired.
@@BushyIV I am a technician. Honestly, there is no brand that stands above the rest. They all have their pros and cons. The main thing that will insure that your unit lasts a long time is how it is installed. You need to have a good, reputable company do the install and pay attention to the warranty. Yes, single stage units are the easiest units to fix, but any unit that is installed correctly will last a long time and will provide you with the best climate control.
Hey sir. Caught on the fence and looking for a little advice. I’m changing out my home AC system and it’s going to be a 2 ton unit. I got quoted for a trane system that has a air handler that is veritable speed BUT the heat pump is a single stage unit. My question is, is that a bad move to make? I feel like the compressor is always gonna be on and use a ton of energy. Am I correct? Should I pull the plug in the deal and go with a single stage unit? They said the air handlers were the same price for variable or single, however the variable speed compressor was wayyy more money, that’s why I got the quote for a single stage. Thank you !
Got to listen to his wording, it’s some what misleading .two stage tends to be much more expensive to work on. It does not pay off in the end after you add up parts and labor costs. And they have not perfected a lot of the more complicated technology required.
single stage, as he said easy to fix and parts are everywhere. just a fan, capacitor and fan motor on the outdoor unit. The Variable units have something that rivals a super computer on the inside.
Hi Greg.. I have been watching your vides for a few months. I am in the market for a new unit (located near Elk Grove) and will be calling you guys to schedule an appointment for an estimate. I've a York unit that is 18 years old and leaking. Would like to get that replaced.
That sounds great. We would love to take care of you. You can schedule an appt at your convenience at the top of the screen at www.foxfamilyhvac.com Looking forward to hearing from you 👍
@@foxfamilyheatingandaircond4696 Awesome... I just booked an appointment for this Friday. While I have your attention, is partial replacement of just the AC unit (and not the Furnance) even viable for an 18 years old unit?
@Fox Family Heating and Air Conditioning I have a 1 stage ac condenser but 2 zones with 2 thermostats using a damper. The ac unit seems wore out...wont keep up..makes loud clicking or grinding as it turns on and off. Am right in thinking that with 2 thermostats it reduced the life-span of the ac condenser by doubling the demand? The condenser is 7 years old.
Man it’s hard to find the answer to this. Are the speed signal voltages different for ecm and variable speed? From what I’ve read all ecm speed signals are 24v but not sure about variables
No it's still 24v to the speed taps. It just matters which speed taps you plug those low voltage wires on. You can have one speed tap for heat and one for cool, and I believe fan only if it's programmed like that. Which is another point. And then you have 120 or 240 to the windings depending on the unit. Air handlers and package units will have 240, regular furnaces will be 120.
@@foxfamilyheatingandaircond4696 Thanks! For some reason I thought I head someone said variable motors could have a dc voltage. Never could find that though. Thanks for the help
I love the idea of a variable speed one but the cost and the potential for breaking down parts seems higher than a single stage I have very high ceilings and I'm changing things out to a heat pump system and I'm hoping to get a good return on my investment as far as savings I understand that it doesn't do as much for the air conditioning part and may not feel as cool as my current AC unit is this true? My heating unit is 44 years old and it's time to change it out I just don't know that I can afford to spend a lot of money but it seems like I can't afford to not
Heat pumps are good for 35 to 85 degree temp swings. Below 35 or above 85 they begin to loose their effectiveness in moving heat one way or the other. That needs factored into the runtime that will increase as the temps swing outside those numbers. Heating will require more running time to heat, cooling will require more running time too. It would take some serious calculations to figure out which source of energy would be better, gas or all electric, when aligned with comfort performances. Lots of folks might value a heat pump even though they might experience poor heating in freezing temps and the same when its hot because they believe their heat pump is "cleaner" than natural gas. On the other hand, some may not value that idea because they put more value into how well the system performs in extreme conditions, when its needed most for comfort. Also, cost of gas vs. electric play a huge role and from a few sources it is said that gas is 3 times more efficient in 1 CF in BTU's when compared to 1 kWh of electricity plus, currently a therm or cubic foot of gas is less expensive that a kWh of power in most states.
@@michaelcarley7016 Enjoy paying the electric bill. They will still heat some in those temperatures however, with much less efficiency. Probably not enough heat generated to make the cost to run them worth it is the main point. Yes they work, but they use electricity and not everyone has cheap electric like those in CA who are being charged 40 cents per kWh.
Are two stage or variable speed compressors a ripoff? I've heard that when it's hot you want your AC compressor running at 100% power to cool the house down if the compressor runs at 75, 50, or 25% power it just runs for hours and the house doesn't get any cooler. The problem is getting the computer to kick the compressor back up to 100% when 50% isn't cutting it.
I had issues with my daikin vrv life system, and its all about computer algorithms. Variable for that unit means based on outdoor temp it runs at 37, 42, 47, 54 (indoor coil temp). My house since I had this unit installed in the summer is always 74 (if set temp is 72). This can be 80 or 95 degrees out and sunny, It runs all day long and it doesn't dehumidify at all. I had to buy a whole home dehumidifier just to keep humidity in my house at 45 vs high 50's. I spend about 40 kwh a day cooling my home with this unit. No idea what a single stage is but I bet its the same. So for me no real benefit going with this system and I regret getting it. Even the thermostat is proprietary and expensive and I had to get rid of my dual zone system with the inline vents controlled by two thermosostats because it wouldn't work with the new system.
@@cranbers It's almost as if they build these new units for the power company so you don't use very much electricity not for the customer who wants to be comfortable in their own house. A single stage heat pump or air conditioner just turns on and off like a light switch when it's on the compressor runs at 100% power or it's off completely. I'm beginning to think that's the only way to go no matter what the salesman tell you.
@@andrewgordon235 Yeah, with old single stage system I never had any issues with humidity, now my home is always 55 percent or more. I had to get a whole home dehumidifier as mentioned to keep it in the 45 percent range. So there goes any savings I might of gotten from the 13k heatpump daikin vrv life system with a prpoane furnace as backup. If I would of just replaced the system with a single stage heat pump with propane for backup heat probably would of been half the price and twice as happy, and been able to use my nest therrmostats with the zoning vent system I had.
@Andrew Gordon I have dozens and dozens of customers who would strongly disagree with that. They're the most comfortable they felt inside their homes after the upgrade. Most overlooked aspect in replacing AC- is the quality of labor. Doesn't matter if you get a spaceship that was installed incorrectly(which is what I think that other guy's issue is.)
I’m retiring at the end of the year and I’ll be selling my house to move to a lower cost area. I want to replace my 35 year-old Carrier with the cheapest new AC on the market - I’ll likely go with a Goodman. But does Goodman also make a furnace? The entire system is 35 years old and I want to replace it all. Thanks to anyone who can help with this question!
I live in Las Vegas. Replacing my 25 yr old single stage York units. One 4 ton and one 5 ton. One AC vendor is saying the 2 stage won't really produce the benefits with the extreme heat in NV and that a single stage with variable speed blower motor will help to address that. I do have a hot spot in upstairs master. They suggested adding a duct for that and that the 2 stage wouldn't really help with the hot spot. Is a two stage worth it for Vegas?
As another had discussed, 2 stage works better in controlling higher humidity which you don't have, I believe. It's best to look into air flow such as duct sizing, return locations, amount and size as well as supply sizing, location and amount. Most systems are installed on the less efficient side especially new construction (Original systems by builder). Seems like you have a maybe 2,000 SF upstairs and 2,000 SF downstairs. I'd get some other ideas and ask if a third system upstairs would be best vs. one 5 Ton unit. It's going to be more money possibly but a large 2 story home seems to do better with three units, especially in Nevada heat. 2 ton and 3 ton or 2.5 ton and 2.5 ton or even a 3 ton and a 3 ton which would work two areas upstairs vs. all of it. Depends on how many live/sleep there. my2cents.
I personally don't like variable speed. Too many bells & whistles to break down. A lot of the time everything you save on the bill you spend on repairs, such as inverter boards.
Recently house sat for a friend with a new triple stage system. It was beautiful and kept nearly constant temperature on low fan speed even during the hottest times of the day. It also kept the humidity much higher than normal without a humidifier (important in a desert), while also being capable of running in dehumidifier mode for more humid climates. I recommended that they not buy this system. While the experience was amazing, I still stand by that sentiment. I'm just waiting for the inverter to blow a week outside the warranty and cost half as much of a brand new single stage system to repair. It'll probably be on backorder too leaving them without AC for a week in 110+ temperatures...
@@jblyon2 you don’t have to worry about variable speed compressor is burning up or blowing up they literally last two or three decades or more. They do burn up a lot and blow up a lot due to the installer. Due to the company that selected the wrong size and wrong piping. Due to the incorrect refrigerant charge because they can’t comprehend The minuscule amount needed to RTFM the manual to come up with the additional refrigerant that may be needed for the size and quantity of air handler in the length of liquid line set to properly charge the system Due to clear fitting over torqued or under torque or improperly made flare. Leaking refrigerant out causing a high superheat not providing cooling back to the compressor overheating it and burning it out Due to 100 other variables all caused by the owner of the company who installed it due to his ignorance or being cheap or being lazy Every mail function including duck design airflow and heat load calculation you can point the finger back at the owner of the company not his installer not his service personnel not his sales man if the owner of mentality that that’s the benchmark for the quality of their workmanship of installation
@@coldfinger459sub0 The compressor isn't really a concern. It's the electronics running it and the inverter. As with any industry making electronics for the consumer market they're designed at the lowest cost that will keep failures during the standard warranty period at an acceptably low level vs production cost. The manufacturers will not spend a single penny more than they have to to exceed this longevity target. With a regular condenser you have a $15 dual run capacitor, $40-50 contactor, and maybe a $30-55 low or high pressure limit switch as failure points. On their new 3 stage system you have a $1200 inverter board, $375 control board, and a $340 EMI filter board, along with your regular capacitor and a myriad of pressure & temperature sensors. That's a LOT of electronics made as cheaply as possible to go wrong.
@@jblyon2 Usually just electrical surges and overvoltage to take them out that’s why on every installation you put a voltage and surge suppressor and transient suppression module on every installation. End of problem. They last for decades
@@coldfinger459sub0 They really don't nor are they designed to last that long. Soldering of the components is done as cheaply as possible. Combine this with the thermal stresses the components regularly go through and you get the development of tin whiskers. These eventually cause a short that fries the board. This problem was made much worse by the removal of lead from solder as lead greatly impedes the development of tin whiskers. This is the main reason why older electronics seem to last longer than newer ones, differences in manufacturing quality aside.
The time has come to replace my 2-ton and 5-ton AC/heat pump units. They are both single-stage. A local contractor has quoted both single-stage and variable replacement units. The variable speed quote is about $10k higher than the single-stage quote. Ouch! I have asked him about something in the middle -- a two-stage system, for example. He says "2 stage is going away". Is that true?
Kind of true. A lot of manufacturers (we sell Lennox) are producing entry levels variable systems that cost just about the same as 2 stage, making them obsolete. They consolidated down to only having 1 2 stage unit and its considered their lower end equipment
@@steveb8897 That jives with what the local HVAC companies were telling me. I originally asked about going dual stage and when the ran the numbers it ended up being less than $1000 more to go with a variable setup.
Do yourself a favor, stay the F away from variable inverter based systems. I have a daikin vrv life system, and my house is always above set temp on hot days, system always runs, and it broke. It took a month to get it fixed. The company that installed it while qualified had no idea how to fix it and relied on tech support who was sub par, and it was done by replacing every components on the outdoor unit (were talking computer motherboards that rival whats in your PC) and when that didn't work they just replaced the eniter outdoor unit. It is confusing and apparently not as reliable as the old school on/off style. I asked other a/c repair companies if they could take over said nope, we aren't certified on that system. So you are stuck with sub par service or none at all and that's scary. wish I knew this before I bought this system.
@@fzr1000981 The new one won't hit set temp its always 2 degrees above. And the humidity in my home is always over 50 percent. It runs 18 hours a day non stop ( naturally at a lower speed but still combine that with not hitting set temp its like the unit is just "lazy" but they call it power efficient. If i say I want my house at 72, get it to 72 and keep it there, dont hover at 74 and then turn off at 71 at 3am.
I recently got a quote to replace 4 ton AC condenser, evaporator coils, Plenum, pan, 16 SEER, single stage cooling. Attic job. Replace one small section of ductwork that leads to a bedroom, where the current duct is smaller than the rest of the ducts. 80,000 BTU. Gas heater/furnace. 1900 square-foot home. $11,500. Carrier or Heil brand. In your opinion, does that seem like a fair price?
Prices vary widely between contractors and different National region. Get a couple more bids to compare.. I saw estimates vary between contractors up to 100% on my last rental replacement a year ago! Also find out the warranty on the equipment and parts and labor!
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Make sure everyone does their homework before you buy from a contractor. Get multiple opinions. Check their "facts"
The entire concept of SEER is designed to confuse the customer and is a total hoax in hot areas because the system runs on high all the time. Additionally a R410-a system is less efficient than a R22 system. Efficiency is BTU/Watts in. The R410 systems run at higher pressures and take more watts to provide the same BTUs. Therefore less efficient by definition but SEER was invented to manipulate the customer. Efficiency actually went down, yet through sleight of hand the SEER numbers went up. Additionally the R410-a system efficiency drops at higher outside temperatures... like Arizona in the summer. The two stage system does you no good unless you live on the coast and need minimal air conditioning much of the year. I have been researching going solar and my AC is 12 years old. A variable speed system will allow me to increase efficiency, but most important the VFD gives a soft start so the solar system does not have to supply the very high inrush current when the compressor starts. As more people get solar power this should become a huge marketing tool. Additionally if all AC compressors were 3 phase motors driven by a VFD we wouldn't spent millions of dollars replacing start capacitors every few years and have less waste in the landfills.
And then there are natural gas condensing units ! I think that is the reason you see the new 410 units are about twice the size as old units with fast turning cooling fans and smaller coil area. The new ones are very large and that is likely because they are turning the cooling fan slower and the 410a needs more time in the coils to shed the heat so the coils are a good double the size.
My single stage has worked well for 20 years. No need for more technology to break down and more expense. I'll be replacing it with a single stage when the time comes.
A few years ago a friend got talked into purchasing two fancy heat pump units for his large house. First year he had the service company come out twice for free warranty calls. Next three years he paid a lot of money for at least 4 service calls. Finally took my advice and ran heat on emergency setting using cheap natural gas. His wife is a CPA and went over the winter heating bills including over $600 on service calls. Came out a lot cheaper just using natural gas. He had a very good insulated house with 2 by 6" insulated walls, R50 insulation or higher in attic and all low E quality windows.
In the real world...all of that is true. Selling solar panels is in the same category as heat pumps are. You pay upfront for free power over the time the solar system will live. NOT cheaper in any way but people will believe in it. Heat pumps may not be that more expensive to buy but they will use more power guaranteed and function less effectively.
Generally speaking (in the USA at least), if you have access to natural gas, it's going to be cheaper or very similar operating cost compared to a heat pump system- btu for btu. A traditional 80% furnace is probably the best option for home owners that want to balance reasonable heating cost with longevity of their equipment. Everyone gets excited about heat pumps, but IMO they are more practical to those in a rural setting where natural gas is not available. Many technicians are lazy and do not pressure test or properly evac heat pump systems, leading to a shorter lifespan of the equipment. Also, home owners are pretty ignorant- using your current heating bills as input into a heat cost comparison calculator is where they should start if at all interested in "efficiency" or saving money. In my case, I found it is cheaper to heat with resistance heat than fuel oil, but many people I have talked to about that don't believe the simple math in front of their face!
Going to be interesting in next 10 to 25 years where California , parts of NY state & others are going to outlaw installing any natural gas in new homes followed in 10 to 15 years that existing homes with natural gas must get rid of gas and spend tens of thousands of dollars to upgrade electrical services ( might need a very expensive 300 or 400 amp service if u have 2 EV'S )replace gas furnace, gas dryer, gas water heater & gas stove with guess electric. Worst part lazy foot dragging ultility companies will never have the extra generating stations, high voltage transmission lines or hard to get distribution transformers in time for that do people will have to deal with power blackouts on cold winter days along with hot summer days. California has it all planned out. First they decommissioned their last nuclear plant that generated 12% if states power, then outlawing gasoline generators but will have discount coupons for freezing homeowners to purchase extra thick warm sleeping bags and hand out hand fans to cool themselves while not having power on hot days. Icing on the cake is they will not be able to charge thier EV'S during rolling blackouts and peak energy usage numerous days. No wait California also going to give out discount coupons to purchase expensive 15 speed mountain bikes to get around .
@@JohnThomas-lq5qp I'm a NYS resident- It will be interesting for sure. I just installed a mini split system which is my only heat source (aside from space heaters) and it worked fantastically well this past winter. That being said, next project is a woodstove for when the rolling blackouts hit during polar vortexes. It's crazy to see the amount of heat pump mini splits that have been installed over the past couple years in rural houses, but it is logical to do so due to (update) NYs reasonable electric rates vs propane/fuel oil. At current rates, it's cheaper to heat with resistance heat until fuel oil drops below $4/gallon. IMO the electric cars can be part of the solution when it comes to meeting peak demand- but my biggest concern is cold weather events taking down the grid due to massive spikes in demand... As for banning natural gas in areas where it is available to residences and business- very silly.
Very well explained and to the point without a lot of fluff.
This is a very useful explanation. I moved into a new house recently and the HVAC system is 20 years old so I am in the middle of figuring out what to replace it with. Thanks very much.
Replaced mine with 29 SEER variable speed (inverter) system. Huge difference in electricity cost, consistency and it's super quiet as well.
I live in Minnesota and it gets cold and also very hot and humid. Had my 31 year old Rheem 1 stage system replaced with a High Efficiency Variable Speed Bryant system in November 2019. Yes it was expensive, 3k more then the single stage 80% eff furnace and AC. However, my gas and electricity costs went down 40-50% a month. Xcel said I now have one of the most efficient houses in my neighborhood based on square footage. I never know the system is running inside the house it's so quiet and have to read the thermostat to know if it's heating, cooling, or dehumidifying.
We had a train variable, and it was awesome. Wish I still had it
Hopefully you can get a trane variable or a carrier infinity variable. I’ve been inside homes with variable speed systems and the indoor air comfort is unreal because there are no hot or cold spots. You can crank those down to 68 degrees and still not break the bank with your energy bills.
@davidperry4013 unfortunately I was told the crawl space in my house is too small
I spoke with a tech from Trane who was really informative, the whole idea of stages is to maintain humidity and temperature. Seer rating is kind of moot because if the ac unit is running constantly, it had to be efficient.
If you get a 5 ton ac unit but only need 2 or 3 ton, the temp will go down but the air will still be humid and it shuts off. Something like a variable speed system will work longer at a reduced capacity to pull the humidity out of the air in the home.
Depending on the climate you live in having a 26 SEER rated ac unit would take decades to recoup the extra money if you only use it a few months out of the year.
Good stuff. Sounds like you have a good grasp on what they told you.
Keep in mind, true Modulating Veriable speed system, are mainly made for Zoning applications, because thats where you can truly take advantage of its effectiveness and efficiency, but if you install the system as single zone it will NEVER RUN at 25% of its capacity, its intelligent processor will fix its speed to meet its certain static pressures.
Most important application is proper ductwork design, just my 2 cents my friend.
Depends...in California you will like recoup your money in 2 to 3 years since their power rates are six time higher than the rest of the nation. They are charging .35 to .45 cents per kWh in CA. Adds up fast at maybe $30 a day for 65 kWh's.
Yes, it depends, my old 5 ton single stage failed, I now have a variable speed 3 ton. It paid me back after three years, the best part is most time you can’t even tell it’s on. Is it expensive yes, but a cheaper single stage is way more expensive in the long term.
@@calivalley9056 Repairs and repair costs will out pace a single stage over time too so that should be a factor. Not to mention, how long will those proprietary parts remain available if the variable units will go 20 years long?
In the south where humidity is an issue variable units can save cost if it means you can skip a dehumidifier.
The other big piece of the equation that gets glanced over is the variable speed units are the top of the line systems. Usually this means they come with much superior warranties. In turn, stands to reason they are better made.
I disagree, my home's humidity increased drastically, (the unit seems to run based on outdoor temp as far as cooling capacity and indoor coil temp, it can go as high as 54 degrees) so my house was always at 56 percent humidity so I had to get a whole home dehumidifier just to keep it at 45 percent. On top of that, my vrv life system outdoor unit took a crap after 18 months. I was out of service for 30 days while they replaced every motherboard and expansion valve and had to end up replacing entire outdoor unit (compressor). The tech's were clueless even though they installed it, had to rely on tech support for everything. Its not like a single stage where its the fan motor, compressor or the capacitor. This thing has multiple motherboards bigger then whats in a desktop home PC., Not only that but a single stage indoor coil is always going to be in the 30's when it runs so the dehumidification is outstanding.
Would be interesting to know the reliability of 2 stage and variable systems. Would also be good to know how expensive those special sensors, circuit boards and variable speed blower motors are too. There is a huge cost difference from a single stage system so, another $3,000 to $5,000 or up to $8,000 more for those 2 stage and variable has to carry some value or they are simply way over priced for the benefits over a single stage. Those are the thing folks want to know, more benefits? More expensive to fix? Need repairs every year? Part...2 to 3 weeks wait for a proprietary and likely expensive part that is going to be priced at retail. Spending more should include more benefits and way less breakdowns and down times. I don't think they are there yet.
Many of the major inverter (variable) systems have at least 10 year warranties, Daikin has 12 year parts/labor available
@@AJ-bi6ns Is worth the extra cost?
@@naderblack1114 Worth is use case dependent. Too many variables such as current system, cost to upgrade, differential cost between lesser units and ultimately your goal. Is long term return on investment important to you? Or is saving money during install paramount.
Inverters will be more expensive than single/2-stage systems. Depending on use and SEER of the unit you could see several thousand back in electrical savings over 10 years. However, that doesn't make up the cost difference. If you monetize the extended warranty "cost savings" you can come out even or a little ahead. However, "comfort" for inverter systems is untouched.
If you want the "best" comfort and monthly electrical savings and aren't worried of the initial cost difference its a no-brainer.
I think more then variable and all that is a high class heat pump vs a high class propane / natural gas system. I went from propane to a heat pump variable with backup propane. I save hundreds per month on propane in the winter. but I am guessing if I would of just went from propane furnace to a single stage high efficiency heat pump I would saw cost benefits and in the summer had a system that properly dehumidifies and doesnt' run all day. ( I have a VRV life system that is an inverter based system and it runs all day in the summer wont keep set temp, and at set point of 72 wont start until above 73, and won't stop until below 71. Stays at 73 to 74 all day on a hot summer day. And it doesn't dehumidify worth a damn. House humidity is in the high 50's since it was installed. (because when its in that low mode the indoor coil temp staysin the 50's which won't dehumidify below 50. Unlike a single stage which is in the 30's when its on so it will dehumidify like crazy.
I had one part failure on my two stage system that ate up any savings I received . This , even though the part itself was under warranty. Took a week to get the part during the hottest week in the summer. Technology is great until it breaks.
I like the 2 stage but is it worth an additional $7k over a single stage??? I’m in California so humidity is not a factor..
WOW So much info in such a short time.. Bravo
Great video. I can't tell you how many videos I've sifted through to find one that doesn't push this or that brand, or mini splits vs central AC or list the six best brands.....seriously, six brands that are great? C'mon, who believes that. This video perfectly explains the different technologies, why one may perform better than the other but the differences are small or why this type is easier to fix, etc. I'm going to have mine replaced with a quality single stage unit installed by what will hopefully be a reputable company. Again, great video.
Looking at the performance data on the Copelands two stage compressor I see the first stage may be at 67% capacity but the efficiency is much lower on stage one then stage 2. as always it's always a trade off.
Thank you for the information!
Good job although I would argue that Seers matter of you trying to capture a Federal Energy Tax Credit. 16 will qualify. 14 won’t.
Single stage is simple and just run less mechanical parts. Better go with single stage.
yes, and because there isn't a server farm of electrical components and motherboards its easier to fix and will last 20 years. Just keep it charged replace capacitor and keep the coil clean. use whatever thermostat you want. The opposite is true with the variable systems. I speak form experience after a 30 day outage.
Single stage all the way. And try to not get a microchanel coil. 2 stage and variable speed systems will save you a little bit on your electric bill, but when it breaks you will pay big time, and I assure you, they will break. Pay attention to the warranty. Some manufacturers have parts warranty and some have parts and labor. They do not build ACs like they used to. They break alot more and will need to be repaired.
Are you in the trade? If so is there a single stage brand you fell comfortable in recommending?
@@BushyIV I am a technician. Honestly, there is no brand that stands above the rest. They all have their pros and cons. The main thing that will insure that your unit lasts a long time is how it is installed. You need to have a good, reputable company do the install and pay attention to the warranty. Yes, single stage units are the easiest units to fix, but any unit that is installed correctly will last a long time and will provide you with the best climate control.
Well said.
Hey sir. Caught on the fence and looking for a little advice. I’m changing out my home AC system and it’s going to be a 2 ton unit. I got quoted for a trane system that has a air handler that is veritable speed BUT the heat pump is a single stage unit. My question is, is that a bad move to make? I feel like the compressor is always gonna be on and use a ton of energy. Am I correct? Should I pull the plug in the deal and go with a single stage unit? They said the air handlers were the same price for variable or single, however the variable speed compressor was wayyy more money, that’s why I got the quote for a single stage. Thank you !
Tell us about natural; gas condensing units...why aren't they offered as much?
Got to listen to his wording, it’s some what misleading .two stage tends to be much more expensive to work on. It does not pay off in the end after you add up parts and labor costs. And they have not perfected a lot of the more complicated technology required.
When he says "system" does he mean the compressor or the air handler??
You seem to be conflating variable speed with modulating
We just want one that runs without constant costly repairs, is that too much to ask for?
single stage, as he said easy to fix and parts are everywhere. just a fan, capacitor and fan motor on the outdoor unit. The Variable units have something that rivals a super computer on the inside.
Can you use a new variable system for upstairs if your downstairs is a single stage?
Hi Greg.. I have been watching your vides for a few months. I am in the market for a new unit (located near Elk Grove) and will be calling you guys to schedule an appointment for an estimate. I've a York unit that is 18 years old and leaking. Would like to get that replaced.
That sounds great. We would love to take care of you. You can schedule an appt at your convenience at the top of the screen at www.foxfamilyhvac.com Looking forward to hearing from you 👍
@@foxfamilyheatingandaircond4696 Awesome... I just booked an appointment for this Friday. While I have your attention, is partial replacement of just the AC unit (and not the Furnance) even viable for an 18 years old unit?
@Fox Family Heating and Air Conditioning I have a 1 stage ac condenser but 2 zones with 2 thermostats using a damper. The ac unit seems wore out...wont keep up..makes loud clicking or grinding as it turns on and off. Am right in thinking that with 2 thermostats it reduced the life-span of the ac condenser by doubling the demand? The condenser is 7 years old.
Should buy a heat pump (bi directional)
Junk pump. Those dumb things are becoming popular again.
Man it’s hard to find the answer to this.
Are the speed signal voltages different for ecm and variable speed? From what I’ve read all ecm speed signals are 24v but not sure about variables
No it's still 24v to the speed taps. It just matters which speed taps you plug those low voltage wires on. You can have one speed tap for heat and one for cool, and I believe fan only if it's programmed like that. Which is another point. And then you have 120 or 240 to the windings depending on the unit. Air handlers and package units will have 240, regular furnaces will be 120.
@@foxfamilyheatingandaircond4696
Thanks! For some reason I thought I head someone said variable motors could have a dc voltage. Never could find that though. Thanks for the help
I love the idea of a variable speed one but the cost and the potential for breaking down parts seems higher than a single stage I have very high ceilings and I'm changing things out to a heat pump system and I'm hoping to get a good return on my investment as far as savings I understand that it doesn't do as much for the air conditioning part and may not feel as cool as my current AC unit is this true? My heating unit is 44 years old and it's time to change it out I just don't know that I can afford to spend a lot of money but it seems like I can't afford to not
Heat pumps are good for 35 to 85 degree temp swings. Below 35 or above 85 they begin to loose their effectiveness in moving heat one way or the other. That needs factored into the runtime that will increase as the temps swing outside those numbers. Heating will require more running time to heat, cooling will require more running time too. It would take some serious calculations to figure out which source of energy would be better, gas or all electric, when aligned with comfort performances. Lots of folks might value a heat pump even though they might experience poor heating in freezing temps and the same when its hot because they believe their heat pump is "cleaner" than natural gas. On the other hand, some may not value that idea because they put more value into how well the system performs in extreme conditions, when its needed most for comfort. Also, cost of gas vs. electric play a huge role and from a few sources it is said that gas is 3 times more efficient in 1 CF in BTU's when compared to 1 kWh of electricity plus, currently a therm or cubic foot of gas is less expensive that a kWh of power in most states.
@@Garth2011 With today's technology, that statement is incorrect. Mr Cool Heat pumps are currently good to heat down to minus 8 degrees F
@@michaelcarley7016 Enjoy paying the electric bill. They will still heat some in those temperatures however, with much less efficiency. Probably not enough heat generated to make the cost to run them worth it is the main point. Yes they work, but they use electricity and not everyone has cheap electric like those in CA who are being charged 40 cents per kWh.
Are two stage or variable speed compressors a ripoff? I've heard that when it's hot you want your AC compressor running at 100% power to cool the house down if the compressor runs at 75, 50, or 25% power it just runs for hours and the house doesn't get any cooler. The problem is getting the computer to kick the compressor back up to 100% when 50% isn't cutting it.
if its hot, it will run at 100%.
I had issues with my daikin vrv life system, and its all about computer algorithms. Variable for that unit means based on outdoor temp it runs at 37, 42, 47, 54 (indoor coil temp). My house since I had this unit installed in the summer is always 74 (if set temp is 72). This can be 80 or 95 degrees out and sunny, It runs all day long and it doesn't dehumidify at all. I had to buy a whole home dehumidifier just to keep humidity in my house at 45 vs high 50's. I spend about 40 kwh a day cooling my home with this unit. No idea what a single stage is but I bet its the same. So for me no real benefit going with this system and I regret getting it. Even the thermostat is proprietary and expensive and I had to get rid of my dual zone system with the inline vents controlled by two thermosostats because it wouldn't work with the new system.
@@cranbers It's almost as if they build these new units for the power company so you don't use very much electricity not for the customer who wants to be comfortable in their own house. A single stage heat pump or air conditioner just turns on and off like a light switch when it's on the compressor runs at 100% power or it's off completely. I'm beginning to think that's the only way to go no matter what the salesman tell you.
@@andrewgordon235 Yeah, with old single stage system I never had any issues with humidity, now my home is always 55 percent or more. I had to get a whole home dehumidifier as mentioned to keep it in the 45 percent range. So there goes any savings I might of gotten from the 13k heatpump daikin vrv life system with a prpoane furnace as backup. If I would of just replaced the system with a single stage heat pump with propane for backup heat probably would of been half the price and twice as happy, and been able to use my nest therrmostats with the zoning vent system I had.
@Andrew Gordon I have dozens and dozens of customers who would strongly disagree with that. They're the most comfortable they felt inside their homes after the upgrade. Most overlooked aspect in replacing AC- is the quality of labor. Doesn't matter if you get a spaceship that was installed incorrectly(which is what I think that other guy's issue is.)
I’m retiring at the end of the year and I’ll be selling my house to move to a lower cost area. I want to replace my 35 year-old Carrier with the cheapest new AC on the market - I’ll likely go with a Goodman. But does Goodman also make a furnace? The entire system is 35 years old and I want to replace it all. Thanks to anyone who can help with this question!
Yes, Goodman also has furnaces so you can go with a complete Goodman system.
@@omcbob37 : Great! Thank you.
may I ask what you ended up installing? My Goodman is 24 yrs old 😁
@@MrRjnr : A basic Bryant because the company offered me a deal on that particular system that got a few minor dings in shipping.
I live in Las Vegas. Replacing my 25 yr old single stage York units. One 4 ton and one 5 ton. One AC vendor is saying the 2 stage won't really produce the benefits with the extreme heat in NV and that a single stage with variable speed blower motor will help to address that. I do have a hot spot in upstairs master. They suggested adding a duct for that and that the 2 stage wouldn't really help with the hot spot.
Is a two stage worth it for Vegas?
As another had discussed, 2 stage works better in controlling higher humidity which you don't have, I believe. It's best to look into air flow such as duct sizing, return locations, amount and size as well as supply sizing, location and amount. Most systems are installed on the less efficient side especially new construction (Original systems by builder). Seems like you have a maybe 2,000 SF upstairs and 2,000 SF downstairs. I'd get some other ideas and ask if a third system upstairs would be best vs. one 5 Ton unit. It's going to be more money possibly but a large 2 story home seems to do better with three units, especially in Nevada heat. 2 ton and 3 ton or 2.5 ton and 2.5 ton or even a 3 ton and a 3 ton which would work two areas upstairs vs. all of it. Depends on how many live/sleep there. my2cents.
Don't two stage systems run longer and use more natural gas.
I personally don't like variable speed. Too many bells & whistles to break down. A lot of the time everything you save on the bill you spend on repairs, such as inverter boards.
Recently house sat for a friend with a new triple stage system. It was beautiful and kept nearly constant temperature on low fan speed even during the hottest times of the day. It also kept the humidity much higher than normal without a humidifier (important in a desert), while also being capable of running in dehumidifier mode for more humid climates.
I recommended that they not buy this system. While the experience was amazing, I still stand by that sentiment. I'm just waiting for the inverter to blow a week outside the warranty and cost half as much of a brand new single stage system to repair. It'll probably be on backorder too leaving them without AC for a week in 110+ temperatures...
@@jblyon2 you don’t have to worry about variable speed compressor is burning up or blowing up they literally last two or three decades or more.
They do burn up a lot and blow up a lot due to the installer.
Due to the company that selected the wrong size and wrong piping.
Due to the incorrect refrigerant charge because they can’t comprehend The minuscule amount needed to RTFM the manual to come up with the additional refrigerant that may be needed for the size and quantity of air handler in the length of liquid line set to properly charge the system
Due to clear fitting over torqued or under torque or improperly made flare. Leaking refrigerant out causing a high superheat not providing cooling back to the compressor overheating it and burning it out
Due to 100 other variables all caused by the owner of the company who installed it due to his ignorance or being cheap or being lazy
Every mail function including duck design airflow and heat load calculation you can point the finger back at the owner of the company not his installer not his service personnel not his sales man if the owner of mentality that that’s the benchmark for the quality of their workmanship of installation
@@coldfinger459sub0 The compressor isn't really a concern. It's the electronics running it and the inverter. As with any industry making electronics for the consumer market they're designed at the lowest cost that will keep failures during the standard warranty period at an acceptably low level vs production cost. The manufacturers will not spend a single penny more than they have to to exceed this longevity target.
With a regular condenser you have a $15 dual run capacitor, $40-50 contactor, and maybe a $30-55 low or high pressure limit switch as failure points. On their new 3 stage system you have a $1200 inverter board, $375 control board, and a $340 EMI filter board, along with your regular capacitor and a myriad of pressure & temperature sensors. That's a LOT of electronics made as cheaply as possible to go wrong.
@@jblyon2 Usually just electrical surges and overvoltage to take them out that’s why on every installation you put a voltage and surge suppressor and transient suppression module on every installation. End of problem.
They last for decades
@@coldfinger459sub0 They really don't nor are they designed to last that long. Soldering of the components is done as cheaply as possible. Combine this with the thermal stresses the components regularly go through and you get the development of tin whiskers. These eventually cause a short that fries the board. This problem was made much worse by the removal of lead from solder as lead greatly impedes the development of tin whiskers. This is the main reason why older electronics seem to last longer than newer ones, differences in manufacturing quality aside.
The time has come to replace my 2-ton and 5-ton AC/heat pump units. They are both single-stage. A local contractor has quoted both single-stage and variable replacement units. The variable speed quote is about $10k higher than the single-stage quote. Ouch! I have asked him about something in the middle -- a two-stage system, for example. He says "2 stage is going away". Is that true?
No, not true
@@foxfamilyheatingandaircond4696 Thank you!
Kind of true. A lot of manufacturers (we sell Lennox) are producing entry levels variable systems that cost just about the same as 2 stage, making them obsolete. They consolidated down to only having 1 2 stage unit and its considered their lower end equipment
@@steveb8897 That jives with what the local HVAC companies were telling me. I originally asked about going dual stage and when the ran the numbers it ended up being less than $1000 more to go with a variable setup.
Do yourself a favor, stay the F away from variable inverter based systems. I have a daikin vrv life system, and my house is always above set temp on hot days, system always runs, and it broke. It took a month to get it fixed. The company that installed it while qualified had no idea how to fix it and relied on tech support who was sub par, and it was done by replacing every components on the outdoor unit (were talking computer motherboards that rival whats in your PC) and when that didn't work they just replaced the eniter outdoor unit. It is confusing and apparently not as reliable as the old school on/off style. I asked other a/c repair companies if they could take over said nope, we aren't certified on that system. So you are stuck with sub par service or none at all and that's scary. wish I knew this before I bought this system.
They are reliable, sounds like you got a lemon. Agree with not many techs can work on them
@@fzr1000981 The new one won't hit set temp its always 2 degrees above. And the humidity in my home is always over 50 percent. It runs 18 hours a day non stop ( naturally at a lower speed but still combine that with not hitting set temp its like the unit is just "lazy" but they call it power efficient. If i say I want my house at 72, get it to 72 and keep it there, dont hover at 74 and then turn off at 71 at 3am.
@@cranbers 50% is good, I'm rarely below 64% RH with my single stage. What brand is it?
And then he sold the company to someone else. That sucks for your customers.
I recently got a quote to replace 4 ton AC condenser, evaporator coils, Plenum, pan, 16 SEER, single stage cooling. Attic job. Replace one small section of ductwork that leads to a bedroom, where the current duct is smaller than the rest of the ducts. 80,000 BTU. Gas heater/furnace. 1900 square-foot home. $11,500. Carrier or Heil brand. In your opinion, does that seem like a fair price?
Prices vary widely between contractors and different National region. Get a couple more bids to compare.. I saw estimates vary between contractors up to 100% on my last rental replacement a year ago! Also find out the warranty on the equipment and parts and labor!
Bosch variable speed is not technically “communicating”
I love my new Bosch (midea) one, 29 SEER inverter (variable).
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Make sure everyone does their homework before you buy from a contractor. Get multiple opinions. Check their "facts"
The entire concept of SEER is designed to confuse the customer and is a total hoax in hot areas because the system runs on high all the time. Additionally a R410-a system is less efficient than a R22 system. Efficiency is BTU/Watts in. The R410 systems run at higher pressures and take more watts to provide the same BTUs. Therefore less efficient by definition but SEER was invented to manipulate the customer. Efficiency actually went down, yet through sleight of hand the SEER numbers went up. Additionally the R410-a system efficiency drops at higher outside temperatures... like Arizona in the summer. The two stage system does you no good unless you live on the coast and need minimal air conditioning much of the year. I have been researching going solar and my AC is 12 years old. A variable speed system will allow me to increase efficiency, but most important the VFD gives a soft start so the solar system does not have to supply the very high inrush current when the compressor starts. As more people get solar power this should become a huge marketing tool. Additionally if all AC compressors were 3 phase motors driven by a VFD we wouldn't spent millions of dollars replacing start capacitors every few years and have less waste in the landfills.
Starting current is a moot point, solar installers already install soft start devices on HVACs if they will be on a battery back up system.
And then there are natural gas condensing units !
I think that is the reason you see the new 410 units are about twice the size as old units with fast turning cooling fans and smaller coil area. The new ones are very large and that is likely because they are turning the cooling fan slower and the 410a needs more time in the coils to shed the heat so the coils are a good double the size.
Hey any chance I could get your email I’m looking into hvac and have a few questions
Greg@foxfamilyhvac.net