Just seeing how you organize your plugins might be the most useful way of doing it!! I've tried numerous ways of trying to organize them yet I'm never satisfied, the way you have the setup here is what should be the default in Logic!!
Thank you for your honest comparison, so many DAW users have always dodge this type of comparison because of the fear on the backlash of the opposing users. Thank you! you have helped me found what i was looking for, realistic daily problems which could be solved thanks to logic's easy workflow.
Yes! Excellent video. Logic is beyond capable for pro mixing, and workflow is not even comparable. Great to hear such a thorough analysis from a pro who has extensive experience from an analogue background through to modern production.
12:26 In PT, OPT+Command will hold an automation point's vertical position while allowing horizontal movement. Also, Shift+ Command will allow small changes vertically to an automation point.
@@heronislandstudio8054eat video. For what you’re trying to do, you can just make an edit selection around the automation you want to move and nudge it to the desired location. Preview automation in Pro Tools is irreplaceable for me (film and TV mixing) Also, @19:32 there’s shapes you can choose for the pencil tool to have, I think parabola is one of them @21:13 the tool needs to change to the trim tool, which happens when you’re over the top half of the waveform (when using smart tool), you can also press cmd + shift and adjust the volume/other value, this will adjust it only between breakpoints
(sorry - massive wall of text below) I'm just a long-time hobbyist so it was very interesting to see such a detailed breakdown from a professional, thanks for that! One thing I see time and time again when it comes to Logic vs Pro Tools is that people will say things like "Pro Tools is much better if you have an engineering mindset, Logic is better if you're an artist or have a creative mindset" but they can never expand on it when I ask for details. I've concluded that what they really mean is "Logic is more intuitive". I've been using Logic for a decade and used Cubase before that. My first impressions after watching your video are - WOW Pro Tools looks ancient! I know aesthetics aren't everything, but they're something. If I'm going to be staring at my DAW all day then it's nice having clean aesthetics. Also, I can't believe how far behind PT is when it comes to things like automation. I had no idea PT was that bad, I've taken Logic's capabilities for granted because that's just what I'm used to. PT would drive me absolutely insane just with automation alone. One thing I love about Logic as a hobbyist is it's a one-and-done with purchasing and it's way cheaper. $200 and I'm set for a very long time, until the next major release happens. No DRM BS like iLok. Finally, what I also love about Logic is that it really seems like the team behind it cares. I know Apple gets a bad rap in a lot of ways, and rightfully so in many cases, but the Logic team is fantastic and you can really feel the care and attention to detail when you use it. Also, it's really fun when minor updates come out because they always include new things to play with, like new reverbs and plugins, the drummer AI (which for me is great for creating scratch drums quickly), flex time/pitch, etc all of these came with minor updates. For example in the 10.4 update you got smart tempo, new instruments (the highly customizable studio instruments are great!), Mellotron, a bunch of new filter modules for retro synth, ChromaVerb, a couple multi-effects plugins (Phat FX, Step FX), Vintage Console EQ (which is like a Neve clone), Vintage Graphic EQ, Vintage Tube EQ (Pultec EQP-1A clone), 800 new loops, 150 new presets for Alchemy, two new AI drummers, and an absolute crap ton of minor tweaks and changes that make life easier. This was from ONE minor update! I'm always so excited when a new Logic update rolls around. It's so fun and feels like Christmas (btw, Merry Christmas!). I can only judge by what I've seen and what people have said so I'm ignorant, but to me it seems like Pro Tools is very cold and stoic, like the developers don't really care that much about the users. Again this is just an ignorant observation on my end. One of my good friends who works in the industry that uses both put it to me like this "I use Pro Tools because I have to, I use Logic because I love it". Anyway, if you've made it this far then thanks for reading my overly-verbose wall of text! Thanks again for the great video.
I ditched pro tools along time ago. Back around pro tools version 7. Been using logic ever since for everything, all producing scoring and editing and mixing. Its beautiful and true to its name logical.
Most people stick with the platform they spent years learning...... if it's not broken etc etc...... but glad I started way back with emagic which became Logic that we know today. A fantastic platform that offers so much, and is far deeper than most users will never know.
It's good to hear you talking positively about Logic. I am a hobbyist recently demoted to using Garage Band which is extremely buggy and limited. I was concerned that Logic might be similar in shortcomings. But this video has edified me. Thanks!
This was kind of you to make such an effort to share. I’m a PT user for over 15yrs now, and I’ve been considering learning LPx to possibly use both in tandem as you do. I think Hans Zimmer has a reason for using Cubase, so I’ll investigate that as well. I found your whole video quite useful. I frequently commit/deactivate my instrument tracks to work around CPU (until I get the new Mac Pro 😊). Again, thank you for sharing.Well done👍🏻. Cheers.
Thanks Hans! I recommend learning Logic. In many ways it's very similar to PT so you may find it quicker to learn than you think. But as I said in the video, I do find Logic a lot faster to mix in. The plugin management in particular is such a big time saver if you have a lot of plugins like I do.
Logic user here since 10+ years. I enjoy videos like this because there is always something new to learn. Honestly there are also a lot of frustrations with Logic, which makes me constantly look out and flirt with other DAWs, but I never changed so far due to pure convenience. My main frustration with Logic is its MIDI implementation. Using 3rd party controllers is a nightmare. Setups sometimes just disappear and have to be recalibrated or reinstalled. Every time I open Logic, I expect something to be missing and spending some time for maintenance before a session. My second frustration is that Logic seems to have way too many options and settings, at least for my simple self-inducted approach to recording and mixing, and is way too complicated for me. It happens all the time that I acidentally change a setting or uncheck a box and suddenly something doesn't work anymore, no sound or whatever, and it often takes me literally hours to troubleshoot. There are plenty of ruined creative days because the anger eats up the muse - those are usually my "DAW-Tinder"-days. My 3rd frustration is that the undo option is not always applicable. It is very easy to acidentally mess up something - there is no safety net for substantial editing. Sometimes (too many times, and this is my 4th frustration) a Logic project gets somehow messed up by itself too, and in both cases undo wouldn't work and I have to go back to the last version, and sometimes this is many steps back. Lastly, my 5th frustration is that in the mixer window, channels can not be rearranged. This is especially a problem with the order of aux and bus channels. There is an inconvenient workaround that needs to be avoided. Maybe I'm just an idiot, but in this case I wouldn't call Logic "intuitive" on all levels - it definitely is on many levels, but some levels appear twisted to me. And to be fair, I am working on an older version, because I am stuck on a older machine that does not take updates well, and the newest version might be better. This is just my amateurish love-hate relationship with Logic. I still love to work with it - there are more pros than cons (that's why it's called Logic "Pro", isn't it?) and if I am ever going to change, then possibly to Luna, if its glory days ever come.
For Aligning Automation in PT: I make a duplicate track of the 'kick' and then move the new kick track down to where my automation is. Then tab to transient the kick on the beat to where you want the automation to come in and out. Then select that new region and move the selection (arrow down) to the automation lane - then you have perfectly aligned in and out points to work with.
You’ve made some very good points. I’ve always been a Logic Pro user, and I have no intentions of switching to Pro Tools even though my Scarlett 2i2 came with Pro Tools first focusrite creative pack, but I’ve been told by a lot of people that Pro Tools is superior to Logic Pro in terms of mixing and mastering, but I’d say good mixing and mastering can be done on pretty much any daw. I’ve also heard people say that it’s just better to let master engineers do the mastering for you as they have better equipment, but if someone wants to sell beats let’s say, then it’s better if the producer learns how to do the whole nine yards in their home studio ... plus it’s more rewarding.
Thanks for the video! I've been a Pro Tools user for 16 years and switched to Logic Pro 2 months ago. I'm happy that I've moved on. I'd also like to add that Logic uses a lot less CPU. Pro Tools can high jack your system, especially if you have a lot of tracks. The bounce in Place feature is great in Logic Pro and saving stems is a breeze. I've paid thousands with Digidesign/AVID and their new subscription plans are ridiculous. More studios and engineers are making the switch. It was pretty easy to learn Logic coming from Pro Tools.
As a 25+ year Pro Tools user, I’m using Logic more and more. Great inspiration, this! You can easily use Nudge to move automation later/earlier very accurately.
You made my day. I was thinking about to reinstall PT again to mix my upcoming album. But in this case I have to setup an old OS because PT11 dose not work on the latest OS anymore. I always thought PT sounds better but I think it doesn't matter if you go crazy to use it. Thank you
If there is a difference in sound I think it's so small that it doesn't matter. I prefer the sound of Logic and Cubase better than Pro Tools. But the difference is so small I might be imagining it! 🙂
Nice honest video... May I suggest diffusing your lighting :D. I used ProTools few years back (15 yrs ago) didn't do all the automation or fiddly bits as you describe, and it was best DAW at the time. Got married, all my gear went to storage, stopped recording etc... but just recently bought a Focusrite SiS212 3rd gen and it came with a 90 day trial of ProTools. Within 2 days I removed it entirely from my computer and I mean entirely even using terminal to squash any remnants of it on my computer. Downloaded LogicPro which I used to scoff at over the years because it was so cheap ($ wise), but to my surprise (pleasant no less) turned out to be easier to use. For me I see Pro Tools going down the road that Quark Xpress went down. Overpriced, complacent and feeling dominant in the market then along came Adobe Indesign and pushed them aside and became the Industry Standard. Looks like LogicPro might very well usurp the king of DAWs.
I get it that things should take less time these days. After all, computers were created to make life easier, but the software developers sometimes are out of touch with the reality of how folks will use their product. I myself am involved with automation of print layouts by merging organised data and converting it to a semi designed layout that maintains direct connection to a database. If the price changes before press time, it is captured automatically.
You can move any tracks to be underneath each other and match hits, automation etc., very easily, always have been able to. You don't need to make markers or have to look at something that's 6 tracks higher than something else etc, just move the track underneath the track you're working on. Also, for plugin automation, you can enable all parameters at once, without clicking each parameter in the list and start making automation moves. They will appear in the track view for automation
Yes I move tracks as well, but it's so much quicker and more accurate to have a vertical line. Saves an awful lot of time in a big mix. Cubase also has the vertical line for editing for the same reason.
Totally Agree. I have been using logic for professional film / TV mixing for 20 years. I have PT and I do use it (and teach it) but I way prefer Logic for many reasons. Mainly that I am way faster with it. In music mixing also Logic hands down better for me. Really the biggest win for PT for me is that it is more reliable when it comes to audio interchange with video editors. However, this swings back and forth depending on video software updates. If you know which setting suit your DAW you can get an editor to deliver exactly what you need.
Yes I find Logic so much quicker for mixing even though like you I need use Pro Tools all the time and have also been using it for 20 years (damn time flies). I also use Cubase which I find as fast to mix in as Logic.
I agree 100% . Avid need to reimagine PT. Colour changes and occasionally introducing functions that have been available on other machines for decades is lazy , costly, frustrating etc. It was a huge shock coming to protools after using many other systems. Much like finally being able to spend a lot of money on an iphone, only to discover it is prehistoric, compared to my old phone. I did not recognise Protools as a system designed by someone with an understanding of audio recording , mixing, or system integration. funny old world...
You Can Copy paste automation in Protools to move it. It's a little more klunky but it can be done by selecting the area in (Volume) mode Copy and and then paste the automation where you want it.
Yes I use that sometimes. Though if I need to line up the middle of a complicated volume ride on part of the waveform, which is usually what I need to do when moving a bunch of automation points, I find it near impossible to get the position right with copy and paste. In Logic you can just grab it anywhere within the selection and drag it until it lines up perfectly with the right part of the wavefrom.
Thanks for the info about the Track Presets, I'm on PT 12, I guess that must have come in a more recent version. It looks very much the same as Logic's Channel Strip saving ability. Great to see this has come into PT. Re typing in the plugin name in the list, very useful tip for some people. For me not so useful as I often can't remember the name until I see it, even when I know what I'm looking for. But that's just me and my bad memory for names. :)
@@heronislandstudio8054 Well, I sometimes have that too, not remembering names of plug-ins, you're not alone ;-) There're indeed some better/useful features in Logic, but I think it's also linked to workflow. For instance, moving an automation point without messing up the level, this is just holding option/command and then the point stays at the same level. You can move several automation points at the same time by highlighting them and then nudge +/-. Anyway, I liked the video.
@@louisjans9450 Thanks for the reply. That's a great tip about holding option/command to restrict moment. Thanks for that! I found it doesn't work when you have the multi-tool selected, which I always do. So guess I'll have to keep switching tools to select or move. I know you can use the F keys to change tools, but it's not exactly under your finger tips and tricky on a laptop, where I end up doing a lot of editing before a mix. I like that in Logic it all can be done with the pointer. But you're right it is a matter of workflow. Thanks again for the tip, very useful!
Wow, Logics automation is crazy. It may be better than Ableton in some ways! And the plugin organization is something I wish Ableton would let me do that too.
My subscription is about to end and I'm debating to jump over to Logic, but now I have to learn Logic if I jump over, but Logic seems to be the ideal daw so far, thanks for the video....
It's easy to learn too! You can do it easily. And if you don't know something there's a help button at the top left or you can look up on youtube, there are a plethora of tutorials available.
thumbs up! Thanks for your honest opinion. I used ProTools Ultimate with HDX card(s) but since I use Logic everything is better, from experience, speed, system resources, latency etc. Logic is freaking beast and almost for free compared to ProTools hydra
I record and edit vocals in logic so I hope it continues to grow some. But yeah, lot of people don’t understand any daw is gonna sound the same if your in the same studio with the same mic & effects. It’s just about which one has better editing and navigation short cuts, to dumb it down for ppl.
Cheers. I've never found nudge very useful for music that's not on a grid (most of the music I mix isn't on a grid). Logic and Cubase for me are much better for moving automation and for editing in general because they both use a visual alignment system which Pro Tools doesn't have. It always takes me three times longer to align in Pro Tools because there isn't a good visual reference. But that's just the way I like to work, for others it may not be a problem.
Started with pro tools and got discouraged. Switched to Logic Pro and I've released multiple songs already and now recording others with their own music. Everyone has their preference, but LPX is my go to hands down. Thank you for such a detailed video.
It was for me too Until you discover the MAJOR Fatal flaw it has where it destroys audio files… Good luck with that…😂 A quick google and you will understand… Search for „One or more tracks changed in length“
Awesome video, even for me as an only Logic user! Thank you so much for so many tips and tricks! By the way, to get a curve shape in automation there's no need to go and grab the automation curve tool. Just holding option-shift will transform the cursor into the automation curve tool. (Not sure any more if I personally set it to that, or if it's just the default behavior).
This is such an incredibly helpful video. I’ve been on pro tools awhile, but considering moving my mixing workflow to logic, especially for the automation tools. The only complaint I have is that the buss routings in logic all show up as numbers instead of the name of the bus, so I’ll probably miss that aspect- as well as being able to type the name of the insert to search for it. (Which not sure you knew they added that in pro tools.) Overall I just love how smooth and nice looking the UI is in logic, and I’m tired of paying more than logic costs to own , per year for pro tools subscription…
There’s just one thing that really annoys me from Logic Pro, is that we can’t move tracks from the mixer windows. That really something that bugs me… I know that’s a detail, but everything is in the details
Kind of agree to this. But I guess we can move them from the Tracks window. Maybe a feature they can employ in future releases. Would be nice to renumber the tracks too.
Yes unfortunately there's no visual alignment in Pro Tools even when you nudge. I find this makes adjusting automation (and all editing) a lot slower than in Logic or Cubase where you get visual alignment (with a vertical line up the whole screen). This is especially true for music which is not on a grid (like jazz, classical and a lot of acoustic music).
Not sure if someone has already pointed out. 25:00 - lining things up I find quicker in PT. Make the clip you want to move (place cursor and press B). On the track you want to align to place the cursor where you want to align to (or TAB to transient for greater accuracy). With the grabber tool click on the clip you want to move and it aligns. I’ve never found a quicker way to be as accurate in Logic. Is there a Tab to transient feature in logic? I’m a PT user but like to keep informed about logic.
Phew !!!!!!! I’m so glad I watched this as I’ve used pro tools since 2006 and I’ve just moved over to Logic. I really get what your saying. For me though Pro tools has gotten greedy with monthly or yearly subscriptions, logic is yours once you purchase it. Also I have to agree that it’s pretty buggy, I thought I was just a jinx but seems I’m notI. I’ve only scratched the surface of Logic but so far so good. Thanks for making this video.
The worst thing about Avid/Digidesign has been their lack of long-term support for hardware. I can still use my original MOTU 828 from 20 years ago on any current Mac, but my Digi 002 racks now are paperweights even though they cost twice as much originally. Think I'm ever gonna shell out a monthly fee to a shitty company who can't even be arsed to update drivers for $2000 hardware that would otherwise still be perfectly good?
@@ZeroG Yes MOTU's hardware support it amazing. I fired up my old 828 which I hadden't used in years (I use RME for my main A/D) and it still works fine even on a very recent laptop and OS!
Zero-G I feel your pain lol. Absolutely crazy. Seems a case of biting the hand that feeds you. If it wasn’t for guys like yourself buying there hugely expensive audio interfaces there company would have went bust. Real arrogant of them. I’m getting to grips with Logic and I’m loving it !!!
In Logic you can also copy plugins from other tracks just by option-dragging, so for often-used plugins that may be even faster for your workflow... However, I have no experience with PT so not sure if there is a difference in this respect.
I think Logics color is better than protools to, it’s easy on the eyes.. where as to me protools looks to have more of a brighter complexed interface..I still want to learn protools to work in this daw in near future. Thanks!
Apple’s speciality is user experience. They go above and beyond to maximize the user experience of every minute detail and continually improve on every aspect. Can’t say the same for any other daw. If someone made software for windows that has as good of a user experience as logic and final cut id probably switch to windows.
Many of the points he describes were already in Logic 5.5 (last Windows version from Emagic) meaning do not give Apple the credit but the original Logic team. Sure it has improved much from 12/13 years ago.
Not trying to be snarky. The actual information didn’t start till 5:20 in the video. Try getting to the information quicker and you will gain subscribers. Otherwise, good content!
for me is simple: a beautiful program will probably create beautiful music, while an ugly one will probably test my nerves im all way possible . I am happy with Logic . I wish they keep updating and developing the same concept
AUTOMATION SOLVED: Control command click on the automation button in PT copies all automation parameters into the automation list, then you can save that as the default setting. This is a pain to do, but once its done then everything is ready to go. hope this helps!
Fantastic overview. Thank you so much. I can corroborate a few things ;) Been trying out Pro Tools Ultimate 30 day trial. (My mac has nVidia GFX so stuck on 10.13, latest Logic requires 10.14+; Exploring options. But not a week in, using Pro Tools plugins for; Eleven and a few guitar plugins, less than 20 plugins, time correction alignment was randomly lost. Had to close the session and relaunch. Also that same week iLok cloud login went down (Waves 12 new release I guess) had to reinstall iLok Cloud to fix it... A major point Logic has for MIDI is that it has scoring; you don't need Finale or Sibelius
Yes I've had the time alignment problem in Pro Tools a lot. It seems kind of random to me. I'll mix many tracks without a problem and then suddenly I add one extra plugin or hide a track and things start going out or time. The snare gets offset by 100 ms or things start to flam. From there on it's a nightmare. So it's a constant worry in Pro Tools in big sessions. Where as Logic is always rock solid sample accurate timing.
Logic, Cubase and Reaper allow you to organise your plugins. I can't imagine why Pro Tools, still in 2022 doesn't have this function. It's the main reason I prefer mixing in Cubase or Logic instead of Pro Tools.
Hey Haron thanks for such a great video. I am not sure that you have aleeady done a video about it bur how do you import a session from pro-tools ro logic ? Also when you do it do you loose all the eq etc ???
I am very familiar with PT since version 7. I have version 2020.3 on my computer now. I have tried editing and mixing in Pro Tools and it's just not the same as Logic. The only feature I wish Logic had that Pro Tools does is more customization on where the playback starts from when you're working on same section and you hit start/stop often. Everything else Logic is better at.
@@heronislandstudio8054 Yes, there's definitely workarounds. In fact I use an old ShuttlePRO2 controller to zip around Logic. It's just something that I wish I didn't have to think about.
What I do is use the loop function when I'm working on a section. Then I can hit "." and the play back point will jump to the start of the loop. By default Logic will start playback wherever you click in the timeline and always start there after you hit stop and play again. I think there is a way to turn this behaviour off so that it just picks up where stop and plays from there, but I can't remember how to do that.
Yes, and what about do/undo on the mixer and plugins which is possible only on Logic? and also ARA support save me hours and hours of work with melodyne.
Really? I've not seen any article or videos mentioning that amongs the new features. So you can organise your plugin menu anyway you like now? It would be great if you could!
3 things Logic needs to crush Pro-Tools even more. Floating faders, color coding the whole channel strip and being able to move the channel strips around in the mix window.
@Heron Island Studio I'm new to LPX and so far I love it, my question is how would I go about making theses nicely arranged folder for my go to plugins like you have demonstrated in the video? also at 31:32 I like how you have the plugins organized for recalled based on session or artist, How would I accomplish this?
You can organise your plugins by going to the preferences menu and choosin plug-in manager. Your second question is done in the settings menu of each channel strip.
@@heronislandstudio8054 Got Yah, this is going to be a stupid question but under my settings in channel strip am I saving my pluggins under Instrument or Channel Strip settings?...I'm really unsure of this
Cheers. You make a new folder and make the name "________" Every folder name has to be unique so each "________" needs to be longer or shorter than the others.
I've always wondered who came up with the conventional wisdom that Pro Tools is better for mixing, Logic for composition. I've tried to make other DAWS, including Pro Tools, do what Logic does as quickly and easily, and none of them stack up.
@@confectionarysound Logic does have something similar to clip gain. It's called Gain, its in the inspector on the left of the arrange window. Select a clip, drag or type in a number.
Heron Island Studio yeah, doesn’t really suit my purpose of level automation pre-processing (plugins or hardware). Unless I split all my automation moves into their own region which obviously won’t work well. Automating Gain plug-in as first insert is only workable solution.
@@confectionarysound I'm not sure I understand what you're after. If it's pre-plugin level automation, I do that by putting my plugin chain on an aux, bus the instrument channel to the Aux and automate the volume of the instrument channel for pre-insert level and automate the aux for post.
Hi Mark! Great video with a lot useful insight! Thank you! Just one question: I would want to organise my plugs the way you showed us. Everything nicely lined up and separated by little line etc. BUT: I cannot see how to do this with Logic's Plugin-Manager. Can you please give a hint?
Cheers. On the left in plugin manager there is a list of existing plugin folders. There you can make new folders, rename them and drag around the order.
@@heronislandstudio8054 Hi Mark, thanks for the reply. Forget everything after "Good morning"! I finally found a way how to achieve what I wanted. Sorry for bothering! 😉
The only thing in Logic that is bugging me is when using buses as a sidechain input. Logic doesn't calculate the plugin delay compensation correctly it seems which is quite annoying.
Yes I've experienced that myself with Logic. But it only happens occationally for me. Pro Tools by contrast, for me is extremely unstable with it's deplay compensation all over the place. Not just with side chains but even audio tracks themeselves can go out of sync. It basically all starts to fall appart when you load a lot of plugins. And the issue is not that I've exceeded Pro Tools delay compensation limit (which is another infuriating thing) because the issue is really random. It will play back fine and then I stop and start and it's suddenly out of sync. It's basically just really flakey when you load too many plugins.
@@heronislandstudio8054 Have you found any reliable way of guessing in what instances it happens? For me, it seems to happen regardless of the situation which obvious becomes quit problematic if you want to use say, your vocals bus as a sidechain to the music bus. I honestly love logic and feel no real need to branch out into another DAW. I've contacted apple about this, as have many other, so hopefully it gets resolved.
@@greenenoiseaudio I don't often notice the problem. Have you tried asking here: logicprohelp.com there are some people here, particularly the moderators who know a lot about the inner workings of Logic and probably some workarounds.
The looping and selections in Pro Tools is superb and umatched until this day by any DAW, if Logic had the same workflow in the edit window as Pro Tools i had changed to Logic by now. But that's the main reason that i keep coming back to Pro Tools, it's fast and well layed edit window.
That's interesting! I don't get on well with Pro Tools looping and selection, for me it's fiddly and hard to control really precisely (if you are not using the grid and most of the music I mix is not on a grid), I find Logic and Cubase much quicker and more intuitive at those things. But clearly a lot of people love the way Pro Tools does it. For many of these things, I think it's just down to individual preference.
Thanks. I'm no familiar with cubase. I had a play around with Reaper a while back. It looks like a tweaker's paradise if that's what you need. But for me it was ergonomically not set up for fast intuitive mixing. There are too many buttons everywhere (half of which I don't need), buttons are way too small, and it's just not laid out ergonomically. If you notice how Logic and Pro Tools mixing desks are laid out, they are almost identical and that's no accident. For a lot of pro mixers there is a "best way" to lay out a virtual mixing desk for speed and ergonomics. Both Logic and Protools follow that. But reaper does not and none of the skins are any better in this regard. I would find it way to slow and tiring to mix all day long under time pressure in Reaper. That's just my take based on how I mix, others may find Reaper suits them perfectly.
@@heronislandstudio8054 Ah, that's a pity. I would appreciate opinion on Cubase by someone like you. Thanks a lot for sharing the Reaper insight, though!
....regards from another hobbyist using logic for more than 9 years...tried many daws cubase 10 pt2019 st14 ableton but logic is the most stable and reliable...cubase has a fantastic sound engine but its crashing 10 times a week, pt has poor midi, st1 is kinda interesting but still needs some work....best wishes and thanks for your great videos.
Pretty much all these advantages you mention for Logic were copied by Apple from MOTU Digital Performer. We DP users have had this level of automation UI for literally decades. That curve tool? Lifted exactly from DP. There isn't one thing you mentioned that has not been in DP for years now. We also have by far the best MIDI features, like MIDI filters that can transform any MIDI event to any other event... the sickest built-in arpeggiator... etc. I mean, Trent Reznor made Pretty Hate Machine on MOTU Performer, and would have made Broken also but it did not have audio tracks yet so he switched to StudioVision (which no longer exists).
Yes I've heard a lot of great things about DP, I know there are some truely great musicians and composers using it (like Pat Metheny for example). I don't know why more people don't use it, it seems packed with great features.
Here are some counter-arguments: Logic is less stable, and its common for a plugin to crash a session. Guitar rig prevented me from opening a bunch of projects, which meant needing to re-import the non-corrupted tracks into a new project and re-create those effects. The audio-file management is also more reliable. Logic also sometimes simply reverts parameters to default, which obviously ruins a mix. the rendering is also less accurate, if I want to render exactly 30s for a TVC commercial, it is ofter a quarter frame too long on the render. Working with video is also essentially impossible, the framerate snapping is not nearly as accurate. I hate AVID, but PT still offers many workflow advantages and is more stable than Logic, even despite the clunkyness and slow-motion updates.
Just a general question - in my old version of garageband I lose automation when switching the effect for the track. Especially when sharing the file between users - audio corruption can occur and it can be fixed by switching the track effect to a different one then back, but automation is lost for the track. Has anyone noticed this and is it not an issue with logic or protools?
I figure it out. You created a folder with a solid line as the name...but something has to be in the folder for it to populate into the plug-ins drop down. Thanks again.
You can do that in Logic. But you need to dig around in the key commands and set it up. I've set up key commands so I can tab to transient very simillar to Pro Tools.
I’ve used ProTools for almost 30 years, Logic since it was released. Over the past 10 years we migrated most of our tracking, mixing, and mastering over to Reaper for PCM based work and Pyramix for all DSD. There is no comparison to the productivity in Reaper vs Logic. You save hours a day in Reaper. Period. ProTools is a VERY distant third. The productivity, workflow and many advantages of Reaper are overwhelming compared to either alternative.
Reaper is in deed an amazing DAW and from what I can tell it's the most flexible of all of them. I didn't personally get on with the GUI (even with different skins) or the workflow. For me Logic and Pro Tools have faster ergonomics and all the things I need right there (even if Reaper offers more flexibility, I don't personally need those extras). But that's just me. Others clearly love the extra features Reaper offers. For me Cubase beats either Pro Tools or Logic. It has more flexibility and depth of features than either of them (not as much as Reaper) and it has the same great ergonomics as Pro Tools and Logic but with better stability than Logic and without missing features of Pro Tools.
As far as having all the parameters of every plug-in at your fingertips to automate in ProTools… That is simply a tab that you select in preferences. Most people in film always have that selected… Pretty easy. But I will say, Logics in many ways is superior. In ProTools a lot of things are very deep and you have to do a bit of research to access. But it is doable. The one thing I don’t like about logic, and again I use it all the time mainly for programming, is it supposed to be sample accurate The automation, it’s not.
Yes I agree that is one big downside of Logic, there is a real problem with delay compensation for automation. Its something that's always bugged me in Logic, but I just kind of got used to it! Not good though.
Not much I'm afraid. Pro Tools 2021 still doesn't have good plugin management like other DAWs. But if you really want to see an advanced DAW check out Cubase/Nuendo, it's even better than Logic. I'm going to be doing a comparison video on Cubase soon.
@@heronislandstudio8054 well, I think there are lots of stuff that Pro Tools improved since this video ....now the automation in Pro tools is not as cool as in logic, but today many things can be even out with soundflow, also Nuendo or cubase is very advanced but also very cluttered....so that really put me off, Studio 1 seems to be a happy medium between all the DAWs ...and reaper is a beast but do not like how it looks..Plugin management nothing beats Macros
@@bluematrix5001 Yes I have the latest version of Pro Tools, for the way I work not much has improved. But everyone is different of course. One thing I love about Cubase is that you can customise it and hide away everything you don't need. It might look cluttered out of the box but you can minimize it to have just what you need.
Yes you can nudge, you can do that in Logic too. But that's no good for lining things up visually and it only works horezontally not vitically. In logic you have complete freedom to just grab any line, node or group of them and move them freely anywhere in any direction. But the real clincher for me is that you get that virical line which appears allowing you to align things very quckly and preciscely with anything part of a waveform, the start of a clip/region, another automation point etc...
Heron Island Studio Thx for this vid... with every point you mentioned I was face palming myself... what a disgrace... used Pro Tools for quiet some time, updated it annually paying helufa money. Liked it, but hated it - especially crashes and unlogical clunky stuff. Considered moving to Logic, but only after your video I’ve decided to go Logic. My friend uses it too. Occasionally we do projects together, and every time we meet, I see how he has advantage in working faster and doesn’t have crashing problems, and there I am with my PT... Thx again for the vid.. ))
Like you said at the top, not to bash either platform, but there are several shortcuts in Pro Tools automation that you have not learned...also features recently added to Pro Tools have (finally) caught up to Logic (Track Presets, Track Folders, etc.).Same issue with Groups (shortcuts will alleviate some of the "problems" you are experiencing).
I'm still waiting for Logic to enable the ability to color code the entire channel strip and I'm soooo surprised they have not done this yet. I feel that is all Logic has left to do. Makes me wonder if PT has this feature patented. lol Also is there a difference in sound from recording, mixing or mastering? In addition anyone remember when Logic was $1000.00 lol
@@o.b.v.i.u.s $1500.00!?! That is just crazy and no one talks about the drastic price drop from what Logic used to be. I feel people are so happy they just keep their mouth shut lol
Yes Pro Tools Native doesn't come anywhere close to what Logic or Cubase can do in terms of how many plugins you can run without hitting the CPU limit.
Yes I use Logic for scoring and it's not bad. I wouldn't say it's on the same level as Finale or Sebelius if you're doing complex scoring. Logic has this bug where, in certain situations it will display two notes a semitone apart as one note with with a sharp and a natural sign next to it (indicating that there are two notes there). I've never found a pro musician yet who can read that. So you have to go through check for that and fix them on every score. Apart from that and some occasionally annoying limitations with tuplets, Logic's scoring is pretty good.
couldn’t agree more. i switched to pro tools because every studio uses it but i miss logic. good to know both, but logic was so user friendly. Pro tools would be great if it made the updates. basically copy logic. Especially with faders and AUTOMATION
13:00 and 18:12 you can Select automation in Pro Tools and press "M", "". and "?" to move automation. I agree that it is tedious and tiring compared to Logic.
ruclips.net/video/iJNTzjtesGg/видео.html 👀how do you get those diving lines between the plugins... 🚨Great video thanks for this but also for the other videos on this channel..
Number one reason to switch to Logic: you buy it, you own it. Pro Tools you have to pay every month forever.
Very True 💯
Just seeing how you organize your plugins might be the most useful way of doing it!! I've tried numerous ways of trying to organize them yet I'm never satisfied, the way you have the setup here is what should be the default in Logic!!
Thank you for your honest comparison, so many DAW users have always dodge this type of comparison because of the fear on the backlash of the opposing users. Thank you! you have helped me found what i was looking for, realistic daily problems which could be solved thanks to logic's easy workflow.
Glad it was helpful!
The fatigue! The fucking fatigue!
Yes! Excellent video. Logic is beyond capable for pro mixing, and workflow is not even comparable. Great to hear such a thorough analysis from a pro who has extensive experience from an analogue background through to modern production.
Thanks!
Still has to diffuse his lighting though :D... but totally agree, brilliant analysis of the 2 DAWs.
Thats cuz you never tried cubase. Come see the light and and get more done properly
12:26 In PT, OPT+Command will hold an automation point's vertical position while allowing horizontal movement. Also, Shift+ Command will allow small changes vertically to an automation point.
Thanks for the tip. I've never managed to get that to work on my system for some reason.
@Heron Island Studio only works to move a point with the mouse, not a bunch of points are Logic Does...or I am wrong?
with many automation points?? because only works for me to one point and with the mouse
@@heronislandstudio8054eat video. For what you’re trying to do, you can just make an edit selection around the automation you want to move and nudge it to the desired location. Preview automation in Pro Tools is irreplaceable for me (film and TV mixing)
Also, @19:32 there’s shapes you can choose for the pencil tool to have, I think parabola is one of them
@21:13 the tool needs to change to the trim tool, which happens when you’re over the top half of the waveform (when using smart tool), you can also press cmd + shift and adjust the volume/other value, this will adjust it only between breakpoints
(sorry - massive wall of text below)
I'm just a long-time hobbyist so it was very interesting to see such a detailed breakdown from a professional, thanks for that! One thing I see time and time again when it comes to Logic vs Pro Tools is that people will say things like "Pro Tools is much better if you have an engineering mindset, Logic is better if you're an artist or have a creative mindset" but they can never expand on it when I ask for details. I've concluded that what they really mean is "Logic is more intuitive".
I've been using Logic for a decade and used Cubase before that. My first impressions after watching your video are - WOW Pro Tools looks ancient! I know aesthetics aren't everything, but they're something. If I'm going to be staring at my DAW all day then it's nice having clean aesthetics. Also, I can't believe how far behind PT is when it comes to things like automation. I had no idea PT was that bad, I've taken Logic's capabilities for granted because that's just what I'm used to. PT would drive me absolutely insane just with automation alone.
One thing I love about Logic as a hobbyist is it's a one-and-done with purchasing and it's way cheaper. $200 and I'm set for a very long time, until the next major release happens. No DRM BS like iLok.
Finally, what I also love about Logic is that it really seems like the team behind it cares. I know Apple gets a bad rap in a lot of ways, and rightfully so in many cases, but the Logic team is fantastic and you can really feel the care and attention to detail when you use it. Also, it's really fun when minor updates come out because they always include new things to play with, like new reverbs and plugins, the drummer AI (which for me is great for creating scratch drums quickly), flex time/pitch, etc all of these came with minor updates.
For example in the 10.4 update you got smart tempo, new instruments (the highly customizable studio instruments are great!), Mellotron, a bunch of new filter modules for retro synth, ChromaVerb, a couple multi-effects plugins (Phat FX, Step FX), Vintage Console EQ (which is like a Neve clone), Vintage Graphic EQ, Vintage Tube EQ (Pultec EQP-1A clone), 800 new loops, 150 new presets for Alchemy, two new AI drummers, and an absolute crap ton of minor tweaks and changes that make life easier. This was from ONE minor update! I'm always so excited when a new Logic update rolls around. It's so fun and feels like Christmas (btw, Merry Christmas!).
I can only judge by what I've seen and what people have said so I'm ignorant, but to me it seems like Pro Tools is very cold and stoic, like the developers don't really care that much about the users. Again this is just an ignorant observation on my end. One of my good friends who works in the industry that uses both put it to me like this "I use Pro Tools because I have to, I use Logic because I love it".
Anyway, if you've made it this far then thanks for reading my overly-verbose wall of text! Thanks again for the great video.
Thanks. Yes Logic has become a formadiable DAW and it's so well designed ergnomically.
exactly. ^^
I’m sold - was a logic user years ago- was debating between daws - you’ve helped me make up my mind .
What did you end up choosing and after 3yrs do you still stick by your daw of choice?
I ditched pro tools along time ago. Back around pro tools version 7. Been using logic ever since for everything, all producing scoring and editing and mixing. Its beautiful and true to its name logical.
Most people stick with the platform they spent years learning...... if it's not broken etc etc...... but glad I started way back with emagic which became Logic that we know today. A fantastic platform that offers so much, and is far deeper than most users will never know.
It's good to hear you talking positively about Logic. I am a hobbyist recently demoted to using Garage Band which is extremely buggy and limited. I was concerned that Logic might be similar in shortcomings. But this video has edified me. Thanks!
This was kind of you to make such an effort to share. I’m a PT user for over 15yrs now, and I’ve been considering learning LPx to possibly use both in tandem as you do. I think Hans Zimmer has a reason for using Cubase, so I’ll investigate that as well. I found your whole video quite useful. I frequently commit/deactivate my instrument tracks to work around CPU (until I get the new Mac Pro 😊). Again, thank you for sharing.Well done👍🏻. Cheers.
Thanks Hans! I recommend learning Logic. In many ways it's very similar to PT so you may find it quicker to learn than you think. But as I said in the video, I do find Logic a lot faster to mix in. The plugin management in particular is such a big time saver if you have a lot of plugins like I do.
Logic user here since 10+ years. I enjoy videos like this because there is always something new to learn. Honestly there are also a lot of frustrations with Logic, which makes me constantly look out and flirt with other DAWs, but I never changed so far due to pure convenience. My main frustration with Logic is its MIDI implementation. Using 3rd party controllers is a nightmare. Setups sometimes just disappear and have to be recalibrated or reinstalled. Every time I open Logic, I expect something to be missing and spending some time for maintenance before a session. My second frustration is that Logic seems to have way too many options and settings, at least for my simple self-inducted approach to recording and mixing, and is way too complicated for me. It happens all the time that I acidentally change a setting or uncheck a box and suddenly something doesn't work anymore, no sound or whatever, and it often takes me literally hours to troubleshoot. There are plenty of ruined creative days because the anger eats up the muse - those are usually my "DAW-Tinder"-days. My 3rd frustration is that the undo option is not always applicable. It is very easy to acidentally mess up something - there is no safety net for substantial editing. Sometimes (too many times, and this is my 4th frustration) a Logic project gets somehow messed up by itself too, and in both cases undo wouldn't work and I have to go back to the last version, and sometimes this is many steps back. Lastly, my 5th frustration is that in the mixer window, channels can not be rearranged. This is especially a problem with the order of aux and bus channels. There is an inconvenient workaround that needs to be avoided.
Maybe I'm just an idiot, but in this case I wouldn't call Logic "intuitive" on all levels - it definitely is on many levels, but some levels appear twisted to me. And to be fair, I am working on an older version, because I am stuck on a older machine that does not take updates well, and the newest version might be better.
This is just my amateurish love-hate relationship with Logic. I still love to work with it - there are more pros than cons (that's why it's called Logic "Pro", isn't it?) and if I am ever going to change, then possibly to Luna, if its glory days ever come.
For Aligning Automation in PT: I make a duplicate track of the 'kick' and then move the new kick track down to where my automation is. Then tab to transient the kick on the beat to where you want the automation to come in and out. Then select that new region and move the selection (arrow down) to the automation lane - then you have perfectly aligned in and out points to work with.
You’ve made some very good points. I’ve always been a Logic Pro user, and I have no intentions of switching to Pro Tools even though my Scarlett 2i2 came with Pro Tools first focusrite creative pack, but I’ve been told by a lot of people that Pro Tools is superior to Logic Pro in terms of mixing and mastering, but I’d say good mixing and mastering can be done on pretty much any daw. I’ve also heard people say that it’s just better to let master engineers do the mastering for you as they have better equipment, but if someone wants to sell beats let’s say, then it’s better if the producer learns how to do the whole nine yards in their home studio ... plus it’s more rewarding.
Thanks for the video! I've been a Pro Tools user for 16 years and switched to Logic Pro 2 months ago. I'm happy that I've moved on. I'd also like to add that Logic uses a lot less CPU. Pro Tools can high jack your system, especially if you have a lot of tracks. The bounce in Place feature is great in Logic Pro and saving stems is a breeze. I've paid thousands with Digidesign/AVID and their new subscription plans are ridiculous. More studios and engineers are making the switch. It was pretty easy to learn Logic coming from Pro Tools.
Yes I can usually run ¼ to ⅓ more plugins in Logic compared to Pro Tools (native) without hitting the CPU limit.
Aint that the truth. Looks like Apple did their homework and AVID stuck their noses in the air thinking no-one can match them.
As a 25+ year Pro Tools user, I’m using Logic more and more. Great inspiration, this!
You can easily use Nudge to move automation later/earlier very accurately.
so logic pro is really better for voice mixing?
At last, a tutorial that is intelligent, to the point and thoroughly professional. Thank you, Mark, well done!!
Thanks Brad!
You made my day. I was thinking about to reinstall PT again to mix my upcoming album. But in this case I have to setup an old OS because PT11 dose not work on the latest OS anymore. I always thought PT sounds better but I think it doesn't matter if you go crazy to use it.
Thank you
If there is a difference in sound I think it's so small that it doesn't matter. I prefer the sound of Logic and Cubase better than Pro Tools. But the difference is so small I might be imagining it! 🙂
Nice honest video... May I suggest diffusing your lighting :D. I used ProTools few years back (15 yrs ago) didn't do all the automation or fiddly bits as you describe, and it was best DAW at the time. Got married, all my gear went to storage, stopped recording etc... but just recently bought a Focusrite SiS212 3rd gen and it came with a 90 day trial of ProTools. Within 2 days I removed it entirely from my computer and I mean entirely even using terminal to squash any remnants of it on my computer. Downloaded LogicPro which I used to scoff at over the years because it was so cheap ($ wise), but to my surprise (pleasant no less) turned out to be easier to use. For me I see Pro Tools going down the road that Quark Xpress went down. Overpriced, complacent and feeling dominant in the market then along came Adobe Indesign and pushed them aside and became the Industry Standard. Looks like LogicPro might very well usurp the king of DAWs.
I get it that things should take less time these days. After all, computers were created to make life easier, but the software developers sometimes are out of touch with the reality of how folks will use their product. I myself am involved with automation of print layouts by merging organised data and converting it to a semi designed layout that maintains direct connection to a database. If the price changes before press time, it is captured automatically.
You can move any tracks to be underneath each other and match hits, automation etc., very easily, always have been able to. You don't need to make markers or have to look at something that's 6 tracks higher than something else etc, just move the track underneath the track you're working on. Also, for plugin automation, you can enable all parameters at once, without clicking each parameter in the list and start making automation moves. They will appear in the track view for automation
Yes I move tracks as well, but it's so much quicker and more accurate to have a vertical line. Saves an awful lot of time in a big mix. Cubase also has the vertical line for editing for the same reason.
Thanks Mark! That grouping of audio tracks to use in the mixing window for multiple plug-ins is gonna help me a lot!
Totally Agree. I have been using logic for professional film / TV mixing for 20 years. I have PT and I do use it (and teach it) but I way prefer Logic for many reasons. Mainly that I am way faster with it. In music mixing also Logic hands down better for me. Really the biggest win for PT for me is that it is more reliable when it comes to audio interchange with video editors. However, this swings back and forth depending on video software updates. If you know which setting suit your DAW you can get an editor to deliver exactly what you need.
Yes I find Logic so much quicker for mixing even though like you I need use Pro Tools all the time and have also been using it for 20 years (damn time flies). I also use Cubase which I find as fast to mix in as Logic.
I agree 100% . Avid need to reimagine PT. Colour changes and occasionally introducing functions that have been available on other machines for decades is lazy , costly, frustrating etc. It was a huge shock coming to protools after using many other systems. Much like finally being able to spend a lot of money on an iphone, only to discover it is prehistoric, compared to my old phone. I did not recognise Protools as a system designed by someone with an understanding of audio recording , mixing, or system integration. funny old world...
You Can Copy paste automation in Protools to move it. It's a little more klunky but it can be done by selecting the area in (Volume) mode Copy and and then paste the automation where you want it.
Yes I use that sometimes. Though if I need to line up the middle of a complicated volume ride on part of the waveform, which is usually what I need to do when moving a bunch of automation points, I find it near impossible to get the position right with copy and paste. In Logic you can just grab it anywhere within the selection and drag it until it lines up perfectly with the right part of the wavefrom.
honestly I thought I had many plugins. Think your EQ list outdid my whole inventory haha
This is great. Confirmed why I head right back to LOX. Thanks!
Just FYI, in PT by typing the name of the plug-in it'll show up too. You can save plug-in chains in PT and just load them like a single plug-in.
Thanks for the info about the Track Presets, I'm on PT 12, I guess that must have come in a more recent version. It looks very much the same as Logic's Channel Strip saving ability. Great to see this has come into PT. Re typing in the plugin name in the list, very useful tip for some people. For me not so useful as I often can't remember the name until I see it, even when I know what I'm looking for. But that's just me and my bad memory for names. :)
@@heronislandstudio8054 Well, I sometimes have that too, not remembering names of plug-ins, you're not alone ;-) There're indeed some better/useful features in Logic, but I think it's also linked to workflow. For instance, moving an automation point without messing up the level, this is just holding option/command and then the point stays at the same level. You can move several automation points at the same time by highlighting them and then nudge +/-. Anyway, I liked the video.
@@louisjans9450 Thanks for the reply. That's a great tip about holding option/command to restrict moment. Thanks for that! I found it doesn't work when you have the multi-tool selected, which I always do. So guess I'll have to keep switching tools to select or move. I know you can use the F keys to change tools, but it's not exactly under your finger tips and tricky on a laptop, where I end up doing a lot of editing before a mix. I like that in Logic it all can be done with the pointer. But you're right it is a matter of workflow. Thanks again for the tip, very useful!
Wow, Logics automation is crazy. It may be better than Ableton in some ways! And the plugin organization is something I wish Ableton would let me do that too.
My subscription is about to end and I'm debating to jump over to Logic, but now I have to learn Logic if I jump over, but Logic seems to be the ideal daw so far, thanks for the video....
It's easy to learn too! You can do it easily. And if you don't know something there's a help button at the top left or you can look up on youtube, there are a plethora of tutorials available.
thumbs up! Thanks for your honest opinion. I used ProTools Ultimate with HDX card(s) but since I use Logic everything is better, from experience, speed, system resources, latency etc. Logic is freaking beast and almost for free compared to ProTools hydra
Cheers!
PS - ALT+CMND Z - reselects the last Range . Life saver.
Thanks!
Such a good video. I don’t know why logic is so disrespected by engineers. This proves that all wrong...
Cheers!
@James R well said, I couldn’t agree more!
I record and edit vocals in logic so I hope it continues to grow some. But yeah, lot of people don’t understand any daw is gonna sound the same if your in the same studio with the same mic & effects. It’s just about which one has better editing and navigation short cuts, to dumb it down for ppl.
This is a very informative video. I use logic and ProTools just as you. If you want to move your automation as a block select and choose nudge
Cheers. I've never found nudge very useful for music that's not on a grid (most of the music I mix isn't on a grid). Logic and Cubase for me are much better for moving automation and for editing in general because they both use a visual alignment system which Pro Tools doesn't have. It always takes me three times longer to align in Pro Tools because there isn't a good visual reference. But that's just the way I like to work, for others it may not be a problem.
Started with pro tools and got discouraged. Switched to Logic Pro and I've released multiple songs already and now recording others with their own music. Everyone has their preference, but LPX is my go to hands down. Thank you for such a detailed video.
It was for me too
Until you discover the MAJOR Fatal flaw it has where it destroys audio files…
Good luck with that…😂
A quick google and you will understand…
Search for
„One or more tracks changed in length“
Awesome video, even for me as an only Logic user! Thank you so much for so many tips and tricks! By the way, to get a curve shape in automation there's no need to go and grab the automation curve tool. Just holding option-shift will transform the cursor into the automation curve tool. (Not sure any more if I personally set it to that, or if it's just the default behavior).
Cheers! And thanks for the automation tip.
This is such an incredibly helpful video. I’ve been on pro tools awhile, but considering moving my mixing workflow to logic, especially for the automation tools. The only complaint I have is that the buss routings in logic all show up as numbers instead of the name of the bus, so I’ll probably miss that aspect- as well as being able to type the name of the insert to search for it. (Which not sure you knew they added that in pro tools.) Overall I just love how smooth and nice looking the UI is in logic, and I’m tired of paying more than logic costs to own , per year for pro tools subscription…
Have a look at Cubase it doesn't have that buss problem. I've done a video comparing Logic and Cubase.
@@heronislandstudio8054 oh nice! I’ll check that out tonight. Thanks!
There’s just one thing that really annoys me from Logic Pro, is that we can’t move tracks from the mixer windows. That really something that bugs me… I know that’s a detail, but everything is in the details
Kind of agree to this. But I guess we can move them from the Tracks window. Maybe a feature they can employ in future releases. Would be nice to renumber the tracks too.
Bravo.
Absolutely right, especially about the basic organizing of your plugins by creating your own menu is a must.
You can move automation blocks in protools, just select and use nudge. But yes many features I would love on protools
Yes unfortunately there's no visual alignment in Pro Tools even when you nudge. I find this makes adjusting automation (and all editing) a lot slower than in Logic or Cubase where you get visual alignment (with a vertical line up the whole screen). This is especially true for music which is not on a grid (like jazz, classical and a lot of acoustic music).
Not sure if someone has already pointed out. 25:00 - lining things up I find quicker in PT. Make the clip you want to move (place cursor and press B). On the track you want to align to place the cursor where you want to align to (or TAB to transient for greater accuracy). With the grabber tool click on the clip you want to move and it aligns. I’ve never found a quicker way to be as accurate in Logic. Is there a Tab to transient feature in logic? I’m a PT user but like to keep informed about logic.
Phew !!!!!!! I’m so glad I watched this as I’ve used pro tools since 2006 and I’ve just moved over to Logic. I really get what your saying. For me though Pro tools has gotten greedy with monthly or yearly subscriptions, logic is yours once you purchase it. Also I have to agree that it’s pretty buggy, I thought I was just a jinx but seems I’m notI. I’ve only scratched the surface of Logic but so far so good. Thanks for making this video.
Glad you found it useful!
The worst thing about Avid/Digidesign has been their lack of long-term support for hardware. I can still use my original MOTU 828 from 20 years ago on any current Mac, but my Digi 002 racks now are paperweights even though they cost twice as much originally. Think I'm ever gonna shell out a monthly fee to a shitty company who can't even be arsed to update drivers for $2000 hardware that would otherwise still be perfectly good?
@@ZeroG Yes MOTU's hardware support it amazing. I fired up my old 828 which I hadden't used in years (I use RME for my main A/D) and it still works fine even on a very recent laptop and OS!
Zero-G I feel your pain lol. Absolutely crazy. Seems a case of biting the hand that feeds you. If it wasn’t for guys like yourself buying there hugely expensive audio interfaces there company would have went bust. Real arrogant of them. I’m getting to grips with Logic and I’m loving it !!!
I wonder if you could share your plugin classification system. I really like what I see, but it went by too quickly.
In Logic you can also copy plugins from other tracks just by option-dragging, so for often-used plugins that may be even faster for your workflow... However, I have no experience with PT so not sure if there is a difference in this respect.
no difference
I think Logics color is better than protools to, it’s easy on the eyes.. where as to me protools looks to have more of a brighter complexed interface..I still want to learn protools to work in this daw in near future. Thanks!
Apple’s speciality is user experience. They go above and beyond to maximize the user experience of every minute detail and continually improve on every aspect. Can’t say the same for any other daw. If someone made software for windows that has as good of a user experience as logic and final cut id probably switch to windows.
Many of the points he describes were already in Logic 5.5 (last Windows version from Emagic) meaning do not give Apple the credit but the original Logic team. Sure it has improved much from 12/13 years ago.
Try Mixcraft from Acoustica (Windows only)
Not trying to be snarky. The actual information didn’t start till 5:20 in the video. Try getting to the information quicker and you will gain subscribers. Otherwise, good content!
for me is simple: a beautiful program will probably create beautiful music, while an ugly one will probably test my nerves im all way possible . I am happy with Logic . I wish they keep updating and developing the same concept
AUTOMATION SOLVED: Control command click on the automation button in PT copies all automation parameters into the automation list, then you can save that as the default setting. This is a pain to do, but once its done then everything is ready to go. hope this helps!
Fantastic overview. Thank you so much. I can corroborate a few things ;)
Been trying out Pro Tools Ultimate 30 day trial. (My mac has nVidia GFX so stuck on 10.13, latest Logic requires 10.14+; Exploring options.
But not a week in, using Pro Tools plugins for; Eleven and a few guitar plugins, less than 20 plugins, time correction alignment was randomly lost. Had to close the session and relaunch. Also that same week iLok cloud login went down (Waves 12 new release I guess) had to reinstall iLok Cloud to fix it...
A major point Logic has for MIDI is that it has scoring; you don't need Finale or Sibelius
Yes I've had the time alignment problem in Pro Tools a lot. It seems kind of random to me. I'll mix many tracks without a problem and then suddenly I add one extra plugin or hide a track and things start going out or time. The snare gets offset by 100 ms or things start to flam. From there on it's a nightmare. So it's a constant worry in Pro Tools in big sessions. Where as Logic is always rock solid sample accurate timing.
How did you get that plugin organization scheme? Is that Plugsearch by SpeakerFood?
Logic, Cubase and Reaper allow you to organise your plugins. I can't imagine why Pro Tools, still in 2022 doesn't have this function. It's the main reason I prefer mixing in Cubase or Logic instead of Pro Tools.
Hey Haron thanks for such a great video. I am not sure that you have aleeady done a video about it bur how do you import a session from pro-tools ro logic ? Also when you do it do you loose all the eq etc ???
Thanks. Maybe I'll do a video at some point about exporting from pro tools to logic. Thanks for the suggestion.
I am very familiar with PT since version 7. I have version 2020.3 on my computer now. I have tried editing and mixing in Pro Tools and it's just not the same as Logic. The only feature I wish Logic had that Pro Tools does is more customization on where the playback starts from when you're working on same section and you hit start/stop often. Everything else Logic is better at.
Have you tried using markers as a way to start and stop from a particular point?
@@heronislandstudio8054 Yes, there's definitely workarounds. In fact I use an old ShuttlePRO2 controller to zip around Logic. It's just something that I wish I didn't have to think about.
What I do is use the loop function when I'm working on a section. Then I can hit "." and the play back point will jump to the start of the loop. By default Logic will start playback wherever you click in the timeline and always start there after you hit stop and play again. I think there is a way to turn this behaviour off so that it just picks up where stop and plays from there, but I can't remember how to do that.
I know I'm a year late, but right click on the play button in the toolbar, then check "play from last locate position" ;)
Yes, and what about do/undo on the mixer and plugins which is possible only on Logic? and also ARA support save me hours and hours of work with melodyne.
Yes the plugin un-do and undo-history in Logic is awesome.
Thanks. You've given me food for thought at just the right time.
31:30, This can be done in latest versions of Pro Tools. I'm guessing this video is getting Avid to add some new features
Really? I've not seen any article or videos mentioning that amongs the new features. So you can organise your plugin menu anyway you like now? It would be great if you could!
3 things Logic needs to crush Pro-Tools even more. Floating faders, color coding the whole channel strip and being able to move the channel strips around in the mix window.
@Heron Island Studio I'm new to LPX and so far I love it, my question is how would I go about making theses nicely arranged folder for my go to plugins like you have demonstrated in the video?
also at 31:32 I like how you have the plugins organized for recalled based on session or artist, How would I accomplish this?
You can organise your plugins by going to the preferences menu and choosin plug-in manager. Your second question is done in the settings menu of each channel strip.
@@heronislandstudio8054 Got Yah, this is going to be a stupid question but under my settings in channel strip am I saving my pluggins under Instrument or Channel Strip settings?...I'm really unsure of this
@@djxia1 Channel Strip settings
@@heronislandstudio8054 Thank you Sir for the speedy response
Hi, and thanks for an awesome video :-) Small question: How do you make "diving lines" in Logic plugin manager?
Cheers. You make a new folder and make the name "________" Every folder name has to be unique so each "________" needs to be longer or shorter than the others.
@@heronislandstudio8054 ohh clever - thanks
Lateral thinking….
That’s excellent!!
I use logic. I am curious should I learn pro tools also? If so would pro tools first be enough to know how it works?
I've always wondered who came up with the conventional wisdom that Pro Tools is better for mixing, Logic for composition. I've tried to make other DAWS, including Pro Tools, do what Logic does as quickly and easily, and none of them stack up.
The only thing I'm jealous of is Clip Gain, although I know there are suitable work arounds in Logic
@@confectionarysound Logic does have something similar to clip gain. It's called Gain, its in the inspector on the left of the arrange window. Select a clip, drag or type in a number.
Heron Island Studio yeah, doesn’t really suit my purpose of level automation pre-processing (plugins or hardware). Unless I split all my automation moves into their own region which obviously won’t work well. Automating Gain plug-in as first insert is only workable solution.
@@confectionarysound I'm not sure I understand what you're after. If it's pre-plugin level automation, I do that by putting my plugin chain on an aux, bus the instrument channel to the Aux and automate the volume of the instrument channel for pre-insert level and automate the aux for post.
Heron Island Studio yes, that’s what I do now as well
i’m just a step to switch ! very convincing demonstration,
thanks
Hi Mark! Great video with a lot useful insight! Thank you! Just one question: I would want to organise my plugs the way you showed us. Everything nicely lined up and separated by little line etc. BUT: I cannot see how to do this with Logic's Plugin-Manager. Can you please give a hint?
Cheers. On the left in plugin manager there is a list of existing plugin folders. There you can make new folders, rename them and drag around the order.
@@heronislandstudio8054
Hi Mark, thanks for the reply.
Forget everything after "Good morning"! I finally found a way how to achieve what I wanted. Sorry for bothering! 😉
The only thing in Logic that is bugging me is when using buses as a sidechain input. Logic doesn't calculate the plugin delay compensation correctly it seems which is quite annoying.
Yes I've experienced that myself with Logic. But it only happens occationally for me. Pro Tools by contrast, for me is extremely unstable with it's deplay compensation all over the place. Not just with side chains but even audio tracks themeselves can go out of sync. It basically all starts to fall appart when you load a lot of plugins. And the issue is not that I've exceeded Pro Tools delay compensation limit (which is another infuriating thing) because the issue is really random. It will play back fine and then I stop and start and it's suddenly out of sync. It's basically just really flakey when you load too many plugins.
@@heronislandstudio8054 Have you found any reliable way of guessing in what instances it happens? For me, it seems to happen regardless of the situation which obvious becomes quit problematic if you want to use say, your vocals bus as a sidechain to the music bus. I honestly love logic and feel no real need to branch out into another DAW. I've contacted apple about this, as have many other, so hopefully it gets resolved.
@@greenenoiseaudio I don't often notice the problem. Have you tried asking here: logicprohelp.com there are some people here, particularly the moderators who know a lot about the inner workings of Logic and probably some workarounds.
It's very comparable to Cubase actually, you can almost do everything in this DAW. You're probably use to Protools in the first place anyway.
The looping and selections in Pro Tools is superb and umatched until this day by any DAW, if Logic had the same workflow in the edit window as Pro Tools i had changed to Logic by now. But that's the main reason that i keep coming back to Pro Tools, it's fast and well layed edit window.
That's interesting! I don't get on well with Pro Tools looping and selection, for me it's fiddly and hard to control really precisely (if you are not using the grid and most of the music I mix is not on a grid), I find Logic and Cubase much quicker and more intuitive at those things. But clearly a lot of people love the way Pro Tools does it. For many of these things, I think it's just down to individual preference.
Very insightful -- thanks! Do you have any experience with Cubase or Reaper for mixing? If so, how would you rate them?
Thanks. I'm no familiar with cubase. I had a play around with Reaper a while back. It looks like a tweaker's paradise if that's what you need. But for me it was ergonomically not set up for fast intuitive mixing. There are too many buttons everywhere (half of which I don't need), buttons are way too small, and it's just not laid out ergonomically. If you notice how Logic and Pro Tools mixing desks are laid out, they are almost identical and that's no accident. For a lot of pro mixers there is a "best way" to lay out a virtual mixing desk for speed and ergonomics. Both Logic and Protools follow that. But reaper does not and none of the skins are any better in this regard. I would find it way to slow and tiring to mix all day long under time pressure in Reaper. That's just my take based on how I mix, others may find Reaper suits them perfectly.
@@heronislandstudio8054 Ah, that's a pity. I would appreciate opinion on Cubase by someone like you. Thanks a lot for sharing the Reaper insight, though!
....regards from another hobbyist using logic for more than 9 years...tried many daws cubase 10 pt2019 st14 ableton but logic is the most stable and reliable...cubase has a fantastic sound engine but its crashing 10 times a week, pt has poor midi, st1 is kinda interesting but still needs some work....best wishes and thanks for your great videos.
Cheers!
Very cool and practical video, thanks!
Cheers!
Can someone explain how to get the diving lines between the plug in categories?
Create a folder and give it the name "_________" Each name needs to be unique so each dividing line needs to be a different length.
Pretty much all these advantages you mention for Logic were copied by Apple from MOTU Digital Performer. We DP users have had this level of automation UI for literally decades. That curve tool? Lifted exactly from DP. There isn't one thing you mentioned that has not been in DP for years now. We also have by far the best MIDI features, like MIDI filters that can transform any MIDI event to any other event... the sickest built-in arpeggiator... etc. I mean, Trent Reznor made Pretty Hate Machine on MOTU Performer, and would have made Broken also but it did not have audio tracks yet so he switched to StudioVision (which no longer exists).
Yes I've heard a lot of great things about DP, I know there are some truely great musicians and composers using it (like Pat Metheny for example). I don't know why more people don't use it, it seems packed with great features.
Here are some counter-arguments: Logic is less stable, and its common for a plugin to crash a session. Guitar rig prevented me from opening a bunch of projects, which meant needing to re-import the non-corrupted tracks into a new project and re-create those effects. The audio-file management is also more reliable.
Logic also sometimes simply reverts parameters to default, which obviously ruins a mix.
the rendering is also less accurate, if I want to render exactly 30s for a TVC commercial, it is ofter a quarter frame too long on the render.
Working with video is also essentially impossible, the framerate snapping is not nearly as accurate.
I hate AVID, but PT still offers many workflow advantages and is more stable than Logic, even despite the clunkyness and slow-motion updates.
Are apple products the only source for those two softwares?
6:10, you can now search for plugins. That speed things up significantly.
Just a general question - in my old version of garageband I lose automation when switching the effect for the track. Especially when sharing the file between users - audio corruption can occur and it can be fixed by switching the track effect to a different one then back, but automation is lost for the track. Has anyone noticed this and is it not an issue with logic or protools?
Excellent video so. Thanks So the plug in manager...how do you create those dividers? Creating folders is easy. But the dividers?
I figure it out. You created a folder with a solid line as the name...but something has to be in the folder for it to populate into the plug-ins drop down. Thanks again.
The only one thing I miss after moving to Logic from Pro Tools is the Tab to transient button
You can do that in Logic. But you need to dig around in the key commands and set it up. I've set up key commands so I can tab to transient very simillar to Pro Tools.
@@heronislandstudio8054 Thank you, I will try to set mine up.
I’ve used ProTools for almost 30 years, Logic since it was released. Over the past 10 years we migrated most of our tracking, mixing, and mastering over to Reaper for PCM based work and Pyramix for all DSD. There is no comparison to the productivity in Reaper vs Logic. You save hours a day in Reaper. Period. ProTools is a VERY distant third. The productivity, workflow and many advantages of Reaper are overwhelming compared to either alternative.
Reaper is in deed an amazing DAW and from what I can tell it's the most flexible of all of them. I didn't personally get on with the GUI (even with different skins) or the workflow. For me Logic and Pro Tools have faster ergonomics and all the things I need right there (even if Reaper offers more flexibility, I don't personally need those extras). But that's just me. Others clearly love the extra features Reaper offers. For me Cubase beats either Pro Tools or Logic. It has more flexibility and depth of features than either of them (not as much as Reaper) and it has the same great ergonomics as Pro Tools and Logic but with better stability than Logic and without missing features of Pro Tools.
As far as having all the parameters of every plug-in at your fingertips to automate in ProTools… That is simply a tab that you select in preferences. Most people in film always have that selected… Pretty easy. But I will say, Logics in many ways is superior.
In ProTools a lot of things are very deep and you have to do a bit of research to access. But it is doable.
The one thing I don’t like about logic, and again I use it all the time mainly for programming, is it supposed to be sample accurate The automation, it’s not.
Yes I agree that is one big downside of Logic, there is a real problem with delay compensation for automation. Its something that's always bugged me in Logic, but I just kind of got used to it! Not good though.
Great comparison, thanks!
Mark, so after 2 years is Pro Tools closer or actually Logic is even more ahead now?
Logic will suck for editing/mixing forever unless it changes it's entire feel and layout (which it won't).
Not much I'm afraid. Pro Tools 2021 still doesn't have good plugin management like other DAWs. But if you really want to see an advanced DAW check out Cubase/Nuendo, it's even better than Logic. I'm going to be doing a comparison video on Cubase soon.
@@heronislandstudio8054 It has a plugin search and logic doesn't. I couldn't live without that.
@@heronislandstudio8054 well, I think there are lots of stuff that Pro Tools improved since this video ....now the automation in Pro tools is not as cool as in logic, but today many things can be even out with soundflow, also Nuendo or cubase is very advanced but also very cluttered....so that really put me off, Studio 1 seems to be a happy medium between all the DAWs ...and reaper is a beast but do not like how it looks..Plugin management nothing beats Macros
@@bluematrix5001 Yes I have the latest version of Pro Tools, for the way I work not much has improved. But everyone is different of course. One thing I love about Cubase is that you can customise it and hide away everything you don't need. It might look cluttered out of the box but you can minimize it to have just what you need.
Moving automation blocks in PT - highlight the desired area and press ''
Yes you can nudge, you can do that in Logic too. But that's no good for lining things up visually and it only works horezontally not vitically. In logic you have complete freedom to just grab any line, node or group of them and move them freely anywhere in any direction. But the real clincher for me is that you get that virical line which appears allowing you to align things very quckly and preciscely with anything part of a waveform, the start of a clip/region, another automation point etc...
Heron Island Studio Thx for this vid... with every point you mentioned I was face palming myself... what a disgrace... used Pro Tools for quiet some time, updated it annually paying helufa money. Liked it, but hated it - especially crashes and unlogical clunky stuff. Considered moving to Logic, but only after your video I’ve decided to go Logic. My friend uses it too. Occasionally we do projects together, and every time we meet, I see how he has advantage in working faster and doesn’t have crashing problems, and there I am with my PT...
Thx again for the vid.. ))
@@Lev_Urbel Cheers, glad it was helpful!
Like you said at the top, not to bash either platform, but there are several shortcuts in Pro Tools automation that you have not learned...also features recently added to Pro Tools have (finally) caught up to Logic (Track Presets, Track Folders, etc.).Same issue with Groups (shortcuts will alleviate some of the "problems" you are experiencing).
I'm still waiting for Logic to enable the ability to color code the entire channel strip and I'm soooo surprised they have not done this yet. I feel that is all Logic has left to do. Makes me wonder if PT has this feature patented. lol Also is there a difference in sound from recording, mixing or mastering? In addition anyone remember when Logic was $1000.00 lol
yeah... I think I got into Logic for closer to $1500, cuz a lot of the sounds/loops were an extra charge... I think that was around Logic 7...
@@o.b.v.i.u.s $1500.00!?! That is just crazy and no one talks about the drastic price drop from what Logic used to be. I feel people are so happy they just keep their mouth shut lol
Thats actually possible now thanks to LPX Colourizer 🤩 go get yourself a theme with it, well worth it, i got it myself last year
Not to mention Pro tools getting cpu overload randomly all the time
Yes Pro Tools Native doesn't come anywhere close to what Logic or Cubase can do in terms of how many plugins you can run without hitting the CPU limit.
A major point Logic has for MIDI is that it has scoring; you don't need Finale or Sibelius
Yes I use Logic for scoring and it's not bad. I wouldn't say it's on the same level as Finale or Sebelius if you're doing complex scoring. Logic has this bug where, in certain situations it will display two notes a semitone apart as one note with with a sharp and a natural sign next to it (indicating that there are two notes there). I've never found a pro musician yet who can read that. So you have to go through check for that and fix them on every score. Apart from that and some occasionally annoying limitations with tuplets, Logic's scoring is pretty good.
couldn’t agree more. i switched to pro tools because every studio uses it but i miss logic. good to know both, but logic was so user friendly. Pro tools would be great if it made the updates. basically copy logic. Especially with faders and AUTOMATION
Great comparison! I just wish in Logic we can color the waveforms.
Cheers!
You can
Great video thank you!
You should make a template
13:00 and 18:12 you can Select automation in Pro Tools and press "M", "". and "?" to move automation. I agree that it is tedious and tiring compared to Logic.
Thank you it's very helpful
Cheers!
love to hear
29:48, Select and press "F", there will be no dialogue box. I hardly see the Fader Dialog box unless I want to.
The dialog box is not the main issue, it's the lack of ease of editing fades in Pro Tools compared to Logic.
ruclips.net/video/iJNTzjtesGg/видео.html 👀how do you get those diving lines between the plugins... 🚨Great video thanks for this but also for the other videos on this channel..
Good Video
I use both and for Livestream, Pro Tools is way better.
37:30, folder tracks are coming to Pro Tools.
20:24, When Pro Tools tracks are set to off, automation won't work. My tracks are either set to read, touch or latch
Yes but that's not the problem I'm talking about here.
Concordo 100% :)