In all the years I've been watching transport videos I don't know how it is only NOW I'm finding your channel!! You just got yourself a subscriber! Onto the topic at hand, my understanding was that the Battersea extension was planned on the basis the Northern Line system would be split, so I'm expecting to see this happen at some point. I know a lot rests on upgrading Camden Town station, but those plans are up in the air right now. I have HUGE issues with the Battersea extension, which was clearly built with developers in mind and not Londoners. WHY does this extension go sailing over the Victoria Line without the obvious interchange that should exist at Vauxhall? WHY does this line end at Battersea Power Station Station when CLEARLY it should have been driven through to Clapham Junction? I hope this doesn't become a trend, where extensions are built for the benefit of developers rather than the benefit of everyone using the system...
I disagree. Its worked out well in the past with the jubilee line extension being built predominantly for the benefit of the developers of Canary Wharf. This has worked out pretty well id wager.
TfL has already partly solved the problem for you, as the Bank branch is closed between Moorgate and Kennington until May 2022 and is coloured black-and-yellow dashed on the tube map .. perhaps you could call it the Northern Bee-line from that colouring (B-line could also signify Bank Branch!).
The current Northern line is awkward to operate, but flexible too. Trains can divert via either branch or turn around short, if the need arises. Splitting it means more people changing at Camden Town and Kennington which are congested enough. There are plenty of maps, display monitors, announcements and staff to assist those needing help. I say leave things as they are.
It think Kennington has now been sorted to cope with more passengers changing, but Camden Town interchange would need to be upgraded. TfL wanted to do this but it has been shelved after the disastrous Crossrail overspend and Covid shortfall in passenger revenue. Camden Town is already overcrowded with passengers getting on and off, especially at the weekend, so upgrading the station and splitting lines would be a great move forward.
I don’t think it’s a good idea for them to do that Camden Town is far too old to be re-modernised into splitting, not to mention that local opposition against any modernisation of Camden is huge
A while back, I was chatting to a guy on Grindr who was a long-term project manager for TfL. He mentioned that the plans were to split the Northern Line into: “Edgington Line” Working title for Kennington to Edgware via CX. He did mention a likely extension to Battersea that would be on this line. “Northern Line” for Morden to High Barnet via Bank. He said there was a 10-15 year plan to “train” passengers in preparation for the split by gradually making most Morden/HB trains run via Bank, and most Edgware trains run via CX. While Grindr may not be the most reliable source, what he told me around 2012 certainly seems to be coming true. 😊 Thanks for the great channel!
It might be a good idea bank branch can be the southern line and the charing cross branch can be the northern line and you can make the southern line can be dark navy and keep the black on the northern line
My suggestion: Edgware Charing Cross Battersea Power Station (Hampstead Line) High Barnet / Mill Hill East Bank Morden (Southern & City Line) The name 'Northern Line' is used just because of the proprosed northern extension plan in late 1930s (which has not come into operation up till now), thus I think it's time to drop this name if Northern Line is going to split. Not only for Northern Line, but also for District Line: Ealing Broadway / Richmond Victoria Tower Hill Barking Upminster (District Line) Edgware Road High Street Kensington Earl's Court Kensington Olympia / Wimbledon (Wimbledon Line or Kensington Line)
Every once in awhile I still in a bit Swiss Cottage saying oh shit I need to get off and go back to Camden Town to get further north… that’s okay I probably should’ve been drunk. 🤷🏻♀️
I feel that it should stay as one northern line as it is, as there are a lot of other stuff on the map including but not limited to overground lines, DLR lines, TFL rail lines, Thameslink lines, Croydon tram lines, Emirates Air Line and the good old River Thames. If it were to split it would just add another line and probably need another colour which the map has already got enough lines and colours. The northern line is a complex line and is unique on the tfl map, but in my opinion I feel that users of the northern line can understand how it works and if they cannot, then they would go to the wrong station or direction, but if your new to a subway/metro system, there is always gonna be a time when you get on the wrong train/line. I know I have done it myself before with other big and complicated metro/subway networks around the world.
You’re definitely making a lot of sense if they do this will cause more problems than solutions. Camden town itself is too old to be split into especially considering that doesn’t have step free access so the only option they have is there gonna have to start redesigning the station itself which is highly unlikely or they’re gonna just have to shut it down in general but that’s not the only problem the northern line has. There are too many stations on the northern line that are safety hazards. Clapham Common north south, old street and Moorgate need platform extensions like bank. and personally the northern line needs at least three major extensions. One from Battersea to Clapham junction and beyond. Two Is from Mill Hill East to probably Mill Hill Broadway or even Estree and Bore ham wood (and place a second pair of tracks between Finchley Central and Mill Hill easy to increase frequency). And the final extension is between Edgware and bushy heath
There was a scheme called Northern Heights which was cancelled after the Second World War. The steam operated line between Alexandra Palace and Finsbury Park via Highgate surface level station would have been electrified and linked to the Northern City line to Moorgate. Originally Archway station was called Highgate. The only part of the plan that was implemented was the extension to the current Highgate station and over electrified tracks to High Barnet and Mill Hill East. The Highgate tube platforms are extra long as it was thought long trains would use it.
Great video - I'm sure you're right that this should happen, and maybe it will - they've already done it at Kennington, so why not at Camden Town, where the problem is not enough walkways between each set of platforms: they solved that at Kennington - just dug some more tunnels. I vote for 'Hampstead' line for the western branches. Colour - how about white (with black outline) - like they used to use for odd bits of British Rail? While they're improving Camden Town, perhaps they could provide a shorter link to the Overground (at 'Camden Road' station). This is one of the great missing links in the Overground's list of interchanges (topic for another video? - hint...). Google Maps says it's a 300 metre / 5 minute walk - but that's between the station entrances: you still have to get to/from the platforms, so I'd leave 10 minutes to do that - more if I have luggage/kids/a dodgy knee. Anyway, Camden Town tube station entrance is really cramped - a separate entrance at the north end of the platforms would help generally.
Exactly. Though I think the route to Edgware should also be kept to the northern line. Personally, I think the southern line should travel just from Morden to Euston (or Camden Town)
@@dx_ream9277 I understand. I'm just suggesting from a historical standpoint. The City and South London travelled from Morden to Euston while the Hampstead Line travelled from now Embankment to Edgware and High Barnet. I thought it'd be cool if the lines travelled their original routes
The Northern line is good enough, splitting it more will make more maintenance and maybe even station closure. If I would so another split, I would make go via Oxford Circus.
In fact, by splitting the lines simplified signalling and use of less points should make two lines easier to maintain than one. Also regulating the train services should be easier.
Nathan, in a previous video you said that on a third rail system the running rails are the return path for the electric power. As the third rail needs a shoe to take the electric power from the rail to the train motor, how is the electrical connection made between running rails to the motor return. In wheel bearings when the wheels are running there is a thin film of lubricant between the revolving parts I.e. an insulator. In some cases I have come across arcing can occur between these parts causing erosion of thr bearing surfaces . How is this prevented on rolling stock using the wheels as hi current electrical return?
southern line would be the worst name to xall ot 'take the southern line one stop from balham' 'wandsworth common, streatham common, streatham hill, clapham south or tooting bec?'
Assuming TfL upgraded Camden Town and Kennington, the east and west branches of the line could be operated as separate services during peak times to minimise merging trains and increasing overall capacity, then go back to the current mix&match patterns off-peak for increased journey options
southern line would be the worst name to xall ot 'take the southern line one stop from balham' 'wandsworth common, streatham common, streatham hill, clapham south or tooting bec?'
The Charing Cross branch can remain as 'Northern Line' as Bank branch is already called 'City Line'. The split could be made at Euston for transfers, there is plenty of capacity there. Camden Town could actually be closed off for City line services by non-stopping services and with the use of Platform Edge Doors. Line colour? Well, just make it a black and white zebra style like the TfL uses to show intended extension services anyway.
Thanks for your vids,Nathan,I enjoy them. As people are used to the options available,I don't think a split would be desirable.However,If money wasn't an issue, I just wish tfl would rebrand the existing Northern Line into two separate but connected lines.The options for passengers should stay as they are BUT the two branches in Central London should be identified as different lines.Dump the Northern Line moniker (doesn't make sense in South London) and call the line that goes via Charing Cross the CHARING CROSS LINE and the line that goes via Bank the BANK LINE (or revive the CITY & SOUTH LONDON LINE name).North of Camden Town on both branches and south of Kennington in rush hours you'd have BOTH the Bank and the Charing Cross Lines running together(like the way the Circle and the Ham & City run together between Liverpool St and Hammersmith).As for the line colours on the map,keep the black for one line and use a cream colour for the other.
The Bank Line and the Charing Line I'd go for. The Bank could stay black while the Charing goes dark battleship grey. The only reason they don't go ahead is because Camden Town station is not built to cope with the amount of changing trains that would be necessitated.
I used to live in Mornington Crescent, and even as a local, I found it confusing trying to get on trains which stop there, particularly as the tube map is misrepresentative of the real world geometry around there. I would be in favour of two branches. We already use Camden town, Euston and Bank as inter-northern line interchanges. Why not use split branding between the two branches to make it intuative?
If the Bank branch retains the Northern name, that will mean the Northern line will continue to be the line that reaches the farthest south...I don't know if that's an incentive or a disincentive. Maybe they could call them the Bank Line and the Charing Cross Line? Unimaginative, but it might make the simplest transition, since the central sections have been known as the Bank and Charing Cross branches all these years. As far as colors go, they could perhaps merge the Hammersmith and City and Circle lines, which essentially act like a single line with two eastern branches anyway, releasing either yellow or pink for reuse on the ex-Northern line. But I suppose it's moot until they resolve the capacity issue at Camden Town.
Not been on Northern line for over 50 years, but remember when was using it to Belsize Park, when going through the junction before Camden Town, and I forget which branch was coming from, since they wer not crossing over, two trains went through the junction at the same time, before splitting. Think it was bank to Hampstead branch and Charing X to High Barnet. Remember both branshed go through Euston but the Bank platforms are deeper, so they cross over there.
The line that goes via Bank I would call the 'City line' as it runs through the city and that name would also pay homage to the 'City & South London' railway. Also the Bank branch would serve the southernmost station on the tube but not the northernmost so calling it the 'Northern' is a bit of a stretch in my mind. As for the West End branch? Depends which of the Northern branches it takes over. High Barnet? That's pretty far north so 'Northern line' still works. Edgeware? I'd be up for 'Hamstead line' that being the case.
I think the case for splitting the line is strong, especially with the extension to Batersea Power Station. The obvious problem is Camden Town, which would need a major rebuild. Ideally, a rebuild of Camden Town would allow cross platform interchange by having the two southbound lines across platform from each other, and the same for the two northbound platforms. This would be expensive, and TFL is short of money at the moment. As for name and colour. There are new shades of black that are blacker than black and absorb 99.9% of light. We could keep the Northern line black, and call the breakaway line the "Northernest Line" and have it a blacker shade of black.
They'd have to do to Camden town what they did with London bridge, angel and most recently Bank: dig a new tunnel between the Charing cross branch and the chalk farm branch
Isn't the District Line also like two separate lines (a North-South part and a East-West part)? The only thing they have in common is that they share the same platforms at Earl's Court.
As complex as it is, had the "Northern Heights" plan ever went ahead, you would have had so many different termini and possible routings, your head would spin (except one of said terminals would have still been passed over to the Victoria Line) Also, when the lines were first combined, firstly they continued using the names of the two lines that combined, then the name chosen, shortly after the entire Underground was passed to the London Transport Board, was "Edgware, Highgate & Morden Line" and then (after a bunch of dubious rejected ideas based on Bakerloo), "Morden-Edgware Line", before becoming the Northern Line (which I guess was inspired, namewise, by the PLANS to drive it further north, in 1937 when it took on its current name. Ironically, it's the Tube line that runs furthest SOUTH) And that hot pink color? I think that may be Fuschia, named after the hot pink flowers of the fuschia plant. Interesting you mentioned the East London Line. At one time, THAT line could have become complicated. Before the final plan of converting it to London Overground, there were earlier plans where it would remain a 4-rail tube-line, but modified so both 4-rail and 3-rail trains could run, and mainline trains like Networkers and Junipers would have run over most of it AS WELL AS East London Line trains (well, at least the trains going beyond Tube stations could be distinguished by color). Also at one time there were some Metropolitan and District trains that ran onto the East London line, via a connection that was removed upon conversion of the ELL to London Overground.
Anyone who seriously thinks calling the new line the Southern line is a brainlet. Calling the current line the "Northern" line makes no sense as it is since it's not even the northernmost line. Calling the new line the "Southern" line is the bastardization of a name that is already stupid and makes no sense.
The Morden branch should be the City and South London Line. The Northern Line doesn't go particularly far North, but does go the furthest South, and that a bit silly.
The reason for the Northern Line to be split is that the two separate lines could then have the sort of train frequencies have the Victoria Line has. The reason why it has not happened is that Camden Town Station can not cope with that many passengers trying to get off of one train and onto the other line. What is really needed is a new station with a big cross-platform interchange of trains. Imagine Canary Wharf but one side is the line to Edgware Road and the other side is the line to High Barnet. No interchange tunnels to the other train, you just get off, walk across a massive island platform and get onto the other train. And you need to stack two of those cross-platform interchanges one on top of the other. TfL wants to do this, but they need to knock down a bunch of stuff in Camden Town to make way for the new station. And while all the people who have shops in Camden Town would like to have a new station that is not so rubbish that it becomes exit only when it is busy, nobody wants to be the business that gets knocked down to make this happen. So NIMBYism has blocked the thing that everyone needs. I personally think they should close the entire road between Camden Town Station and Mornington Crescent Station for a few years and drop a big box, similar to the Paddington Crossrail station through the road and down to the Northern Line. It will be very painful for locals, for a few years, but once it is done, they can have a big fancy station, with two cross-platform interchanges, and the current entrances at Camden Town and Mornington Crescent can be converted into new accessible entrances to the new Camden Town and both of the old stations can be abandoned. Obviously they would need to put a lid onto the station, so the road can be brought back. But given how popular Camden Town is as a shopping area, there is no reason why they could not have a third entrance inbetween the current Camden Town and Mornington Crescent station entrances.
Here's how I'd do it: Build a new station on the edge of London Zoo, on the edge of Prince Albert Rd and Gloucester Gate. Call this station London Zoo. It would be a 9 minute walk to the current Camden Town so nothing is really disturbed. This station would be on a completely new alignment, where they leave the old alignment after Euston, so skipping Mornington Crescent altogether, then rejoining the line before Kentish Town and Chalk Farm. This way while all the works are going on, trains can still run on the old alignment, meaning no disruption would be caused.
Your method would involve rerouting the tracks but other than that it's decent. I don't think it's practical to keep the old station entrances because if we were to use your plan, the platforms won't be long enough, or you'd need a ridiculously long passageway. Furthermore, cutting up the road would be an inconvenience to locals like you said.
Completely forgot you made this video and I never even had no notifications from it. But I think that the Northern Line is not going to be split. Since the extension to Battersea Power Station opened late last year or early this year.
i think it should be called the Bank Line, and the Charing Cross line. That’d ease the transition by using the names of the branches we already use. Plus the northern line name is kinda meaningless
southern line would be the worst name to xall ot 'take the southern line one stop from balham' 'wandsworth common, streatham common, streatham hill, clapham south or tooting bec?'
No due to complexity of the routes, nothing can be gained, can’t have the Northern line or the Southern line, at one stage there was two seconds of the Bakerloo line.
I think the Northern Line is the most iconic line on the network map, and it should not be split up into two lines. I like the flexibility of the line, most of the time you only need wait for the next train, if the current one isn't for your destination.
The only correct answer is no… I hate that I have to change at Kennington for the Waterloo branch just because Tooting Broadway now see’s majority of its Trains via Bank🙄 Also… ppl just need to grow up lol cause it’s just never been difficult 🤧🥱
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
In all the years I've been watching transport videos I don't know how it is only NOW I'm finding your channel!! You just got yourself a subscriber!
Onto the topic at hand, my understanding was that the Battersea extension was planned on the basis the Northern Line system would be split, so I'm expecting to see this happen at some point. I know a lot rests on upgrading Camden Town station, but those plans are up in the air right now. I have HUGE issues with the Battersea extension, which was clearly built with developers in mind and not Londoners. WHY does this extension go sailing over the Victoria Line without the obvious interchange that should exist at Vauxhall? WHY does this line end at Battersea Power Station Station when CLEARLY it should have been driven through to Clapham Junction? I hope this doesn't become a trend, where extensions are built for the benefit of developers rather than the benefit of everyone using the system...
Money speaks louder than the needs of the ordinary people.
The northern line is already at max capacity, it literally can’t be extended to Clapham junction without overloading the line.
@@atticusfinch1960 this
If it was extended to Clapham Junction, the trains would have been full from the very first station, rendering all subsequent stations unusable.
I disagree. Its worked out well in the past with the jubilee line extension being built predominantly for the benefit of the developers of Canary Wharf. This has worked out pretty well id wager.
I say, one branch be called Northern the other Southern
TfL has already partly solved the problem for you, as the Bank branch is closed between Moorgate and Kennington until May 2022 and is coloured black-and-yellow dashed on the tube map .. perhaps you could call it the Northern Bee-line from that colouring (B-line could also signify Bank Branch!).
this is actually a good idea
I love your upbeat tongue-in-cheek style.
The current Northern line is awkward to operate, but flexible too. Trains can divert via either branch or turn around short, if the need arises. Splitting it means more people changing at Camden Town and Kennington which are congested enough. There are plenty of maps, display monitors, announcements and staff to assist those needing help. I say leave things as they are.
It think Kennington has now been sorted to cope with more passengers changing, but Camden Town interchange would need to be upgraded. TfL wanted to do this but it has been shelved after the disastrous Crossrail overspend and Covid shortfall in passenger revenue. Camden Town is already overcrowded with passengers getting on and off, especially at the weekend, so upgrading the station and splitting lines would be a great move forward.
If I see 18 minutes to high Barnett but five minutes to Edgware I’ll take it to camden and get a bus home!
Well there should be a split just to be easier to understand
one way to alleviate changes could be bringing back the mill hill line as people at edgewere wouldn't need to change train if it was the case
I don’t think it’s a good idea for them to do that Camden Town is far too old to be re-modernised into splitting, not to mention that local opposition against any modernisation of Camden is huge
Maybe build a separate station part at Camden Town for one branch, maybe underneath it
It will happen inevitably
@@CCA2020 I hear u but still there are a lot of issues on the northern line
@@LunaDragofelis I doubt it
It will have to happen eventually, Camden Town can't stay as inadequate for its purpose as it is forever
A while back, I was chatting to a guy on Grindr who was a long-term project manager for TfL.
He mentioned that the plans were to split the Northern Line into:
“Edgington Line” Working title for Kennington to Edgware via CX. He did mention a likely extension to Battersea that would be on this line.
“Northern Line” for Morden to High Barnet via Bank.
He said there was a 10-15 year plan to “train” passengers in preparation for the split by gradually making most Morden/HB trains run via Bank, and most Edgware trains run via CX.
While Grindr may not be the most reliable source, what he told me around 2012 certainly seems to be coming true. 😊
Thanks for the great channel!
It might be a good idea bank branch can be the southern line and the charing cross branch can be the northern line and you can make the southern line can be dark navy and keep the black on the northern line
Yes. I love that the northern line is colour is black.
My suggestion:
Edgware Charing Cross Battersea Power Station (Hampstead Line)
High Barnet / Mill Hill East Bank Morden (Southern & City Line)
The name 'Northern Line' is used just because of the proprosed northern extension plan in late 1930s (which has not come into operation up till now), thus I think it's time to drop this name if Northern Line is going to split.
Not only for Northern Line, but also for District Line:
Ealing Broadway / Richmond Victoria Tower Hill Barking Upminster (District Line)
Edgware Road High Street Kensington Earl's Court Kensington Olympia / Wimbledon (Wimbledon Line or Kensington Line)
Just discovered your content, you have such a great enthusiasm and style, look forward to seeing more of your stuff in the future!
I say keep it. It’s not that confusing once you realise how it works. That said, I like your suggested names, quite interesting.
Every once in awhile I still in a bit Swiss Cottage saying oh shit I need to get off and go back to Camden Town to get further north… that’s okay I probably should’ve been drunk. 🤷🏻♀️
i think it should be called the southern line
defo a split for me way too confusing. banging vid x
I feel that it should stay as one northern line as it is, as there are a lot of other stuff on the map including but not limited to overground lines, DLR lines, TFL rail lines, Thameslink lines, Croydon tram lines, Emirates Air Line and the good old River Thames. If it were to split it would just add another line and probably need another colour which the map has already got enough lines and colours. The northern line is a complex line and is unique on the tfl map, but in my opinion I feel that users of the northern line can understand how it works and if they cannot, then they would go to the wrong station or direction, but if your new to a subway/metro system, there is always gonna be a time when you get on the wrong train/line. I know I have done it myself before with other big and complicated metro/subway networks around the world.
You’re definitely making a lot of sense if they do this will cause more problems than solutions. Camden town itself is too old to be split into especially considering that doesn’t have step free access so the only option they have is there gonna have to start redesigning the station itself which is highly unlikely or they’re gonna just have to shut it down in general but that’s not the only problem the northern line has. There are too many stations on the northern line that are safety hazards. Clapham Common north south, old street and Moorgate need platform extensions like bank. and personally the northern line needs at least three major extensions. One from Battersea to Clapham junction and beyond. Two Is from Mill Hill East to probably Mill Hill Broadway or even Estree and Bore ham wood (and place a second pair of tracks between Finchley Central and Mill Hill easy to increase frequency). And the final extension is between Edgware and bushy heath
There was a scheme called Northern Heights which was cancelled after the Second World War. The steam operated line between Alexandra Palace and Finsbury Park via Highgate surface level station would have been electrified and linked to the Northern City line to Moorgate. Originally Archway station was called Highgate. The only part of the plan that was implemented was the extension to the current Highgate station and over electrified tracks to High Barnet and Mill Hill East. The Highgate tube platforms are extra long as it was thought long trains would use it.
Ok I love the Northern Line possibly my favourite line. I don’t want it to split it into two
Great video - I'm sure you're right that this should happen, and maybe it will - they've already done it at Kennington, so why not at Camden Town, where the problem is not enough walkways between each set of platforms: they solved that at Kennington - just dug some more tunnels.
I vote for 'Hampstead' line for the western branches. Colour - how about white (with black outline) - like they used to use for odd bits of British Rail?
While they're improving Camden Town, perhaps they could provide a shorter link to the Overground (at 'Camden Road' station). This is one of the great missing links in the Overground's list of interchanges (topic for another video? - hint...). Google Maps says it's a 300 metre / 5 minute walk - but that's between the station entrances: you still have to get to/from the platforms, so I'd leave 10 minutes to do that - more if I have luggage/kids/a dodgy knee. Anyway, Camden Town tube station entrance is really cramped - a separate entrance at the north end of the platforms would help generally.
I love these videos. You should apply to NR !
Morden-High Barnet should be the Southern line, it’s the most southern tube line
Exactly.
Though I think the route to Edgware should also be kept to the northern line. Personally, I think the southern line should travel just from Morden to Euston (or Camden Town)
id rather have edgware to morden be the southern line as edgware is more southern than high barnet
@@dx_ream9277 I understand. I'm just suggesting from a historical standpoint. The City and South London travelled from Morden to Euston while the Hampstead Line travelled from now Embankment to Edgware and High Barnet.
I thought it'd be cool if the lines travelled their original routes
@@dx_ream9277 And Morden is the most southern station on the entire network.
The Northern line is good enough, splitting it more will make more maintenance and maybe even station closure. If I would so another split, I would make go via Oxford Circus.
In fact, by splitting the lines simplified signalling and use of less points should make two lines easier to maintain than one. Also regulating the train services should be easier.
Nathan, in a previous video you said that on a third rail system the running rails are the return path for the electric power. As the third rail needs a shoe to take the electric power from the rail to the train motor, how is the electrical connection made between running rails to the motor return. In wheel bearings when the wheels are running there is a thin film of lubricant between the revolving parts I.e. an insulator. In some cases I have come across arcing can occur between these parts causing erosion of thr bearing surfaces . How is this prevented on rolling stock using the wheels as hi current electrical return?
Just call it the Southern Line!
southern line would be the worst name to xall ot
'take the southern line one stop from balham'
'wandsworth common, streatham common, streatham hill, clapham south or tooting bec?'
love the vids!
Assuming TfL upgraded Camden Town and Kennington, the east and west branches of the line could be operated as separate services during peak times to minimise merging trains and increasing overall capacity, then go back to the current mix&match patterns off-peak for increased journey options
Gotta troll people and call the other branch the Southern Line, so they are both the wrong way round 😂
The Edgware-Morden line could be called the Southern Line.
I don’t think its a good idea for TFL to do that
@@andyamg94 Okay.
@@eastlancsesteem If théy go with it it will cause problems than solutions
Because it was the City & SOUTH London line
southern line would be the worst name to xall ot
'take the southern line one stop from balham'
'wandsworth common, streatham common, streatham hill, clapham south or tooting bec?'
Great video. ☺️
The Charing Cross branch can remain as 'Northern Line' as Bank branch is already called 'City Line'. The split could be made at Euston for transfers, there is plenty of capacity there. Camden Town could actually be closed off for City line services by non-stopping services and with the use of Platform Edge Doors.
Line colour? Well, just make it a black and white zebra style like the TfL uses to show intended extension services anyway.
I'm impressed with this video.
No! I like her weird the way it is! 🖤
The best number one idea is extend one line and give it to the Overground. This succeeded all times it happened.
Thanks for your vids,Nathan,I enjoy them.
As people are used to the options available,I don't think a split would be desirable.However,If money wasn't an issue, I just wish tfl would rebrand the existing Northern Line into two separate but connected lines.The options for passengers should stay as they are BUT the two branches in Central London should be identified as different lines.Dump the Northern Line moniker (doesn't make sense in South London) and call the line that goes via Charing Cross the CHARING CROSS LINE and the line that goes via Bank the BANK LINE (or revive the CITY & SOUTH LONDON LINE name).North of Camden Town on both branches and south of Kennington in rush hours you'd have BOTH the Bank and the Charing Cross Lines running together(like the way the Circle and the Ham & City run together between Liverpool St and Hammersmith).As for the line colours on the map,keep the black for one line and use a cream colour for the other.
The Bank Line and the Charing Line I'd go for. The Bank could stay black while the Charing goes dark battleship grey. The only reason they don't go ahead is because Camden Town station is not built to cope with the amount of changing trains that would be necessitated.
I used to live in Mornington Crescent, and even as a local, I found it confusing trying to get on trains which stop there, particularly as the tube map is misrepresentative of the real world geometry around there.
I would be in favour of two branches. We already use Camden town, Euston and Bank as inter-northern line interchanges. Why not use split branding between the two branches to make it intuative?
If the Bank branch retains the Northern name, that will mean the Northern line will continue to be the line that reaches the farthest south...I don't know if that's an incentive or a disincentive. Maybe they could call them the Bank Line and the Charing Cross Line? Unimaginative, but it might make the simplest transition, since the central sections have been known as the Bank and Charing Cross branches all these years. As far as colors go, they could perhaps merge the Hammersmith and City and Circle lines, which essentially act like a single line with two eastern branches anyway, releasing either yellow or pink for reuse on the ex-Northern line. But I suppose it's moot until they resolve the capacity issue at Camden Town.
Not been on Northern line for over 50 years, but remember when was using it to Belsize Park, when going through the junction before Camden Town, and I forget which branch was coming from, since they wer not crossing over, two trains went through the junction at the same time, before splitting. Think it was bank to Hampstead branch and Charing X to High Barnet. Remember both branshed go through Euston but the Bank platforms are deeper, so they cross over there.
Northeastern and Northwestern Line
'take northeastern from kings cross'
'in waiting for you at angel'
'IM WAITING FOR YOU AT STEVENAGE
even worse from euston as there are two branches on the northern line
The line that goes via Bank I would call the 'City line' as it runs through the city and that name would also pay homage to the 'City & South London' railway. Also the Bank branch would serve the southernmost station on the tube but not the northernmost so calling it the 'Northern' is a bit of a stretch in my mind.
As for the West End branch? Depends which of the Northern branches it takes over. High Barnet? That's pretty far north so 'Northern line' still works. Edgeware? I'd be up for 'Hamstead line' that being the case.
I think the case for splitting the line is strong, especially with the extension to Batersea Power Station. The obvious problem is Camden Town, which would need a major rebuild. Ideally, a rebuild of Camden Town would allow cross platform interchange by having the two southbound lines across platform from each other, and the same for the two northbound platforms. This would be expensive, and TFL is short of money at the moment.
As for name and colour. There are new shades of black that are blacker than black and absorb 99.9% of light. We could keep the Northern line black, and call the breakaway line the "Northernest Line" and have it a blacker shade of black.
They'd have to do to Camden town what they did with London bridge, angel and most recently Bank: dig a new tunnel between the Charing cross branch and the chalk farm branch
North bound and southbound? Would that do?
Isn't the District Line also like two separate lines (a North-South part and a East-West part)? The only thing they have in common is that they share the same platforms at Earl's Court.
Do they even share the same platforms? I swear they have different ones
As complex as it is, had the "Northern Heights" plan ever went ahead, you would have had so many different termini and possible routings, your head would spin (except one of said terminals would have still been passed over to the Victoria Line) Also, when the lines were first combined, firstly they continued using the names of the two lines that combined, then the name chosen, shortly after the entire Underground was passed to the London Transport Board, was "Edgware, Highgate & Morden Line" and then (after a bunch of dubious rejected ideas based on Bakerloo), "Morden-Edgware Line", before becoming the Northern Line (which I guess was inspired, namewise, by the PLANS to drive it further north, in 1937 when it took on its current name. Ironically, it's the Tube line that runs furthest SOUTH)
And that hot pink color? I think that may be Fuschia, named after the hot pink flowers of the fuschia plant.
Interesting you mentioned the East London Line. At one time, THAT line could have become complicated. Before the final plan of converting it to London Overground, there were earlier plans where it would remain a 4-rail tube-line, but modified so both 4-rail and 3-rail trains could run, and mainline trains like Networkers and Junipers would have run over most of it AS WELL AS East London Line trains (well, at least the trains going beyond Tube stations could be distinguished by color). Also at one time there were some Metropolitan and District trains that ran onto the East London line, via a connection that was removed upon conversion of the ELL to London Overground.
call the part to Battersea the northern line and the part to Morden the southern line
Anyone who seriously thinks calling the new line the Southern line is a brainlet. Calling the current line the "Northern" line makes no sense as it is since it's not even the northernmost line. Calling the new line the "Southern" line is the bastardization of a name that is already stupid and makes no sense.
It has the southernmost station though
The Morden branch should be the City and South London Line. The Northern Line doesn't go particularly far North, but does go the furthest South, and that a bit silly.
The reason for the Northern Line to be split is that the two separate lines could then have the sort of train frequencies have the Victoria Line has.
The reason why it has not happened is that Camden Town Station can not cope with that many passengers trying to get off of one train and onto the other line. What is really needed is a new station with a big cross-platform interchange of trains. Imagine Canary Wharf but one side is the line to Edgware Road and the other side is the line to High Barnet. No interchange tunnels to the other train, you just get off, walk across a massive island platform and get onto the other train. And you need to stack two of those cross-platform interchanges one on top of the other.
TfL wants to do this, but they need to knock down a bunch of stuff in Camden Town to make way for the new station. And while all the people who have shops in Camden Town would like to have a new station that is not so rubbish that it becomes exit only when it is busy, nobody wants to be the business that gets knocked down to make this happen. So NIMBYism has blocked the thing that everyone needs.
I personally think they should close the entire road between Camden Town Station and Mornington Crescent Station for a few years and drop a big box, similar to the Paddington Crossrail station through the road and down to the Northern Line. It will be very painful for locals, for a few years, but once it is done, they can have a big fancy station, with two cross-platform interchanges, and the current entrances at Camden Town and Mornington Crescent can be converted into new accessible entrances to the new Camden Town and both of the old stations can be abandoned.
Obviously they would need to put a lid onto the station, so the road can be brought back. But given how popular Camden Town is as a shopping area, there is no reason why they could not have a third entrance inbetween the current Camden Town and Mornington Crescent station entrances.
Here's how I'd do it:
Build a new station on the edge of London Zoo, on the edge of Prince Albert Rd and Gloucester Gate. Call this station London Zoo. It would be a 9 minute walk to the current Camden Town so nothing is really disturbed. This station would be on a completely new alignment, where they leave the old alignment after Euston, so skipping Mornington Crescent altogether, then rejoining the line before Kentish Town and Chalk Farm. This way while all the works are going on, trains can still run on the old alignment, meaning no disruption would be caused.
Your method would involve rerouting the tracks but other than that it's decent. I don't think it's practical to keep the old station entrances because if we were to use your plan, the platforms won't be long enough, or you'd need a ridiculously long passageway. Furthermore, cutting up the road would be an inconvenience to locals like you said.
Completely forgot you made this video and I never even had no notifications from it. But I think that the Northern Line is not going to be split. Since the extension to Battersea Power Station opened late last year or early this year.
Yes, there should be little problem with this.
There is easy interchange at Camden Town and Kennington.
i think it should be called the Bank Line, and the Charing Cross line. That’d ease the transition by using the names of the branches we already use. Plus the northern line name is kinda meaningless
True. And there is northern city line and north London line as well
My naming idea will be, West Northern Line and then East Northern Line
King of the Northern Line!!!
That line has always annoyed me. It should be split! Bring on the Charington Line!
Yes!
Simple: charing cross line and bank line
HAMPSTEAD TUBE HAMPSTEAD TUBE HAMPSTEAD TUBE
New trains would be needed as well
Where’s Nathan gone?
Charington line and the Northern line
If people don't like Southern Line, come up with a better name then! Clapgate Line, Edgmor Line, Highsea Line, Batterware Line, Tootnet Line,
southern line would be the worst name to xall ot
'take the southern line one stop from balham'
'wandsworth common, streatham common, streatham hill, clapham south or tooting bec?'
northern westend could be a good name
Northwestern Line and Northeastern Line.
No due to complexity of the routes, nothing can be gained, can’t have the Northern line or the Southern line, at one stage there was two seconds of the Bakerloo line.
West northern line/East northern line and the northern line wall
Hey Bro 😎
Deep pink!
That color is called magenta.
No laughs, but are you aware that you are saying Houston instead of euston
Also, i think that it would be 1 line just split
Its Euston not Houston
I think the Northern Line is the most iconic line on the network map, and it should not be split up into two lines.
I like the flexibility of the line, most of the time you only need wait for the next train, if the current one isn't for your destination.
Charles line, anyone? 💀
The only correct answer is no… I hate that I have to change at Kennington for the Waterloo branch just because Tooting Broadway now see’s majority of its Trains via Bank🙄 Also… ppl just need to grow up lol cause it’s just never been difficult 🤧🥱