So, kinda funny story on this topic. Back in 2001, I was working at Tower Records in Atlanta and the Cult dropped Beyond Good and Evil. We all loved that record and had a store play copy up front we spun pretty regularly. One of the guys I worked with was the biggest Cult fan I've ever met. Not only did he have all the albums, but he had all of them autographed. One day he is up front on register and is playing his copy of Electric on the store play. In walks Ian Astbury, arms full of shopping bags from Lenox Mall, with his son who's probably 10 or 11. He takes a few steps in, stops in his tracks and goes, "Holy shit... I used to sound like this?!" After we picked our jaws up off the floor, we helped him find some DJ Shadow, he signed my buddy's new copy of Beyond Good and Evil, and left the store.
Related to this topic there's a interview with Linda Ronstadt where she explains this situation well . She basically said that she has a standard of excellence when she hits the stage . Once she realized she couldn't deliver it to a level acceptable to herself is when she hung it up and didn't want to disappoint fans. I respect that.
When I was kid my mom told me that if you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything. Over 50 and I still follow her advice. Cheers from Finland!
That's a great motto to live by, but in this current deteriorating, dreary world we live in, only saying things that are good, means there will have to be a lot of silence. We do still have the music of Led Zeppelin and The Beatles, NFL, Pizza and Ice Cream, Dogs, Salma Hayek swim suit photos......that's about it. 😵💫😵😫
Anthony hit the nail right on the head, people that are disappointed by how an older singer sounds now are really looking at themselves and what they can't do any longer or failed to do when they had the chance. Excellent narrative, gentleman.
I think the truth sad reality is that a lot of these singers and bands that we've always loved have just gotten older and it just sucks because you want them to be around forever
Really enjoy these conversations you guys have. Starts off with the music, but translates into how all this stuff is connected with life itself. Like you say, the whingers and critics are simply not happy with themselves. They want everyone else to feel the same rather than taking the positive step to change their own lives.
That was a deep conversation, dude !! It's not really related but I thought of metallica, how they are constantly being criticized for not making another big album like master of puppets.. it pisses my off so bad!! it's such a childish attitude. People get mad at artists like if they were some sort of employees.. that levelt of attachment to the past and that abuse of freedom to give childish opinions.. it's frustrating. Like Anthony said, it's all a reflection of their own stuff going on.. Great conversation !
I was just watching an Andy Edward’s video on this subject but it was using Mike Stern Jazz Guitarist old vs new method of holding the guitar. Im so happy these conversations are being had, and we are showing ourselves how we need to change the way we expect things to be
Yeah it was time to take charge and make some changes instead of complaining about it. I’d let it go too long. I’m glad to be making the changes too. It’s been eye opening as well.
I completely agree with you guys. I have no problem with change , it's just what age does to the majority of us. I love Dokken's newest album and can't imagine whining over Don's vocals changing. As someone else in the comments said , they were raised to say nothing at all if you can't say anything nice and I kinda try my best to live by that as well. There are things going on in this world to truly be concerned about , an aging rock stars vocals isn't one of them. Always love your videos, have a great day!
Oh , and I gotta say ,Anthony's comment about having trouble bending over while making derogatory comments really hit. It was funny but oh so true. Folks can be so quick to criticize others without a second of looking at themselves.
Have you guys seen Wings Of Pegasus' report on Don Henley playbacking during a live concert? His other videos are also insightful though depressing. The voices of all major artists get pitch-corrected in the studio and auto-tuned live.
Not everyone is doing this, it’s quite blown out of proportion. People just assume that because the technology is there that as singers age if they sound good they must be using AI to fix their vocals. To me that’s the sad part. Too much misinformation out there.
@@BrendonSnyder The 'voice fixing' is on another level. According to WOP, pitch-correction is now standard practice in the music industry. They want to earn as much money as possible and they think that the audience wants perfect vocals that sound a certain way. They make it so. I'm hoping that the artists and groups I love won't have anything to do with it, but you can't be 100% certain. One more example. Recently, Hey Jude was used in a commercial. WOP analyzed McCartney's voice and it turned out to be 'corrected' to the max.
Henley's a vocal hero of mine - I saw that episode and was deeply saddened! I'd rather these vocal legends retire gracefully than "Milli Vanilli" it! I leave it to the singer to be self aware and simply stop performing if they can't meet their own standards.
Great convo as always! I’ve never understood people getting mad about this. I’m not a huge Bon Jovi fan but saw him on Colbert and found his discussion of his past couple years really fascinating.
Always live now and look ahead , what is past gone (sometimes good , sometimes bad ) , same with the bands they make great albums back in the days , but people change and personal I always accept that this is part of the life.
You guys are amazing. Whenever I'm down for any reason listening to you guys talk about anything makes me feel lighter. We all have enough shit in our daily lives, Why not just embrace all of the music that we love and not put down others?
Great topic, and what you said is so true . You have to accept your present situation anf move forward. It is also good for our mental health. Embrace change! I am 51 and I have to adjust to my body. That's what our fave musicians do.
People want their rock stars to be like The Simpsons. They want them to look and sound how they did 30 years ago. I think that helps Jeff Lynne fill up arenas in the 2020s. He sounds pretty much the same...and with that hair and sunglasses he LOOKS the same too.
Great video guys. Rock and Roll roots was all about celebrating youth, to keep on sometimes adjustments are made. Sting openly admits to singing in lower register. I say just enjoy it or avoid it. And keep on rockin!
Yeah and to think that over a decade ago in 2012 the band was going to retire. I’m so glad they kept going and we’ve continued to get his talent for 12 more years and hopefully longer.
@@BrendonSnydertrue that, Brendon! I was bummed when Scorps announced their retirement, but they kept on and their last album was killer, back to heavy guitars and killer melodies! Klaus' vocals are still timeless!
Two pints. 1- that first Bon Jovi recird was so good, many fans like me just got sick of being disappointed record after recird after that. 2- we don't want guitars out of tune or bass or drums. As long as singers stay in tune/ on key, it's ok they age. It's when they can't sing anymore is when it's kinda time to hang it up. Robin Zander of Cheap Trick ( who smokes) is a freak of nature along with a handful of others. Most vocalist will age and lose their range and if you have a decent fan base, they will keep being supported. Geddy Lee aged, and yet still sold out arenas.
For me, the issue is that the vocal/lyric/melody is THE key to a song, so it doesn't even feel like the same song anymore if the vocal isn't any good. There's change, and there's deterioration, and the difference between them is immense. Elton John's voice changed after his surgery, but on record you could hear he could still sing. Bon Jovi is a different case, because he truly can't sing anymore, it's the sound of struggle, and it's painful to listen to someone trying to do something they can't. And don't get me started on the singers who sound different after decades of smoking. I have zero sympathy for them, and I'm not sure they deserve to have people pay to listen to them howl with a voice they intentionally destroyed. Truly, if a guitar player wasn't able to play their parts anymore, I think we would be just as hard on them, as we probably should be. When tickets cost more than ever, fans aren't willing to put up with bad performances anymore. It's not just a wasted night out, it's a big chunk of money gone down the drain.
Sammy Hagar is probably the one who is still doing great. Pleased that JBJ has publicly acknowledged the issues and the new album is very good. 'Living Proof' is a bloody great song. Cheers Brendon.
We hear the vocalists on the albums, and it’s like a time warp for some people, and they think the vocalists should sound the same. Fans don’t realize these musicians are people just like us and as they get older they change too.
Good discussion guys!!! I grew up in the 80s and 90s with Bon Jovi. No his voice is not what it once was but he admits it. The new release is not bad....lacks the old Bon Jovi dynamic of Richie's guitar and the blending of the voices......but all in all not bad...just different. Saw a video from a performance at his new club....no he is not ready for a tour. If you don't like it dont listen....like Anthony says "Don't be a dick". Unfortunately these singers are getting older and voices change. I recently suffered from a life threatening and life changing medical emergency and can fully understand that things dont stay the same . Have a good vacation Anthony!!!!
Jon Bon Jovi was always the "whipping boy" by critics all the time except probably last few albums all of a sudden they get good reviews. He was thrashed for everything from his hair to clothing and then cutting his hair and then the whole "VOICE" thing. The thing about Bon Jovi that I always find amusing is them lumped in with the "hair metal" era, when clearly they are not a metal band, yes they had hair but everyone did in those 80's especially in Jersey and Jon's age. A band that came out the bars that had more to do with Springsteen and the Jukes, than Black Sabbath or Zeppelin, I very rarely EVER hear Jon talk about a "metal" band as an influence. He himself said that "people" booking gigs had no clue what to say they "were". As for his voice I have heard this for years now, Jon's voice started losing power and showed signs when Richie left and this was because Jon then took up the rains of being both guys. The voice worsened and many times it was like he was looking for his breath and air at times. Of course this let too things like RUclips videos of "what is wrong with Jon" or "what he should do" and analysis by vocal coaches that were not even coaches. Jon has come to terms with the change or if it has to end then it ends, he even recently despite feeling better and having more strength the days of 240 show tours are OVER, and honestly the idea of that kind of a tour for anyone is really kind of over, you may see a band play half of that now or maybe a quarter but most artists now go out for a month and thats it. I can see Jovi becoming a one nite only type attraction if he does return to any form of shows.
Singers are free to do whatever they want to but some fans don’t understand their voices are not the same. Phil Collins voice isn’t there anymore and he kept on going. Love Phil’s voice ❤
another great sessions video guys. i been listening to bon jovi since i was a kid. john mellencamp great singer. i dont like people who slam singers. mike from canada
You guys made valid points in this video. However, some points of disagreement. 1. I was a fairly decent high school basketball player back in the day. If people came to watch me play today there is no way they would say I was as good as I was back in the day. That's not being mean... that's being honest. 2. Is Jon (Bon Jovi) lowering the cost of his concert tickets in an acknowledgement that people aren't getting what they expected? I doubt it. Look at professional football players. They make millions because they are great at what they do. But when they age and their skills go, are they still asking for millions? No... they don't provide that value anymore. Anyway... This is not to shit on musicians who can't do it like they used to--like you said, we all age and, no, we can't do today what we did yesterday. I'm also not saying that these guys should retire--hey, they gotta make a living. But, if you can't provide what fans expect, maybe you shouldn't be charging full price for a half price show.
Ok but here is where your argument falls apart….Bon Jovi isn’t touring at all because he can’t sing like he used to. He isn’t even trying to go out and charge the same amount of money. If anything he is more respectable for not touring as he waits to see if his voice will return. The thing is there are plenty of people, myself included, that doing care that he doesn’t sing like he once did. I feel that in today’s age you should know what you’re getting into. There is enough info out there that Bon Jovi doesn’t sound like he used to. And if for some reason someone who has been living under a rock for 40 years and thinks that a 62 year old man will sound like he did at 22 then that person has bigger issues to attend to 😂
@@BrendonSnyder You're absolutely correct on the Bon Jovi part--I should've used a different example. Vince Neil and Don Dokken now, Paul Stanley recently. The fact is, many singers CAN still pull it off live. Sammy Hagar sounds phenomenal. I saw Winger and Kix last year--sounded great. Paul Stanley was great into his mid 60s. Hell, Brian Johnson still sounds decent. Not everyone has lost their vocal prowess, correct? Some have. Now, they can run their shows however they want, and charge whatever they want, and the record buying public can make their own choices... some acts I will still go to see, and some I won't. Not trying to start an argument, I do enjoy your channel. Just giving the other side of the opinion in this matter. Anyway, not sure if you've ever seen my stuff--feel free to check it out sometime... or not. Take it easy.
@@BrendonSnyder Last question--does this hold true for drummers and guitar players? For example, if Tommy Lee's health goes to crap and he can't keep time at all, are we forgiving of that? Or if George Lynch's hands are jacked up and he's hitting bad notes every ten seconds? Is that something we also let go because of age?
I’d like to find a nice way to say it but the reality is that the saying “don’t be a dick” perfectly sums it up. If everyone followed that way of thinking the world would be a much better place.
I have now seen this bumper sticker three or four times that says: "MEAN PEOPLE SUCK". That about sums it up, people that are mean, that are extremely negative and unfriendly are obviously unhappy! I say to these people - change your life, find ways to alter the bad path your on, I know that's not an easy thing to do, but for the sake of a happy life, well worth it! Plenty of stories about hardened criminals who have gotten out of jail and completely turned their life around!@@BrendonSnyder
Jon bonjovi says he got into acdc ,alice cooper ,kiss ,led zepplein ,but also bruce ,u gotta remember jon is from jersey not la or newyork or Britain so his influences vary and mostly rock or songwriters not t so much metal or whatever u want to label something or someone.
I can't get into the new Bon Jovi & it has nothing to do with his voice. Just can't get into the new album. But, didn't have that issue with the new Dokken & Winger. Was able to get into those albums from the first listen.
I think the same with Jon Bon Jovi, as well, I think he is not going to be like he was 40 years ago, the same with Bruce Dickinson, David Coverdale or Don Dokken, you know, they aren't going to be like they were in their heyday. I mean Biff Byford and Rob Halford are still as great as ever, but some of the vocalists in the world, they might not be great as they were, I still think they are going on well, and that is fantastic.
I will crap on a singer of bands I am (was) a fan of mostly. Again like you said I don't have to go see them on tour or buy their music anymore. Although what sucks is some of those are charging a fortune for their tickets/merch and that's lame AF. How about having Tom Brady still playing in his 50's and asking to get paid the same salary/sponsorship as in his heyday and expecting his fans to want him to keep playing on the team with a fraction of his former skills?
Well let's think about this for a moment we all can't be the king's forever on that top of that mountain as a singer it takes a lot on your voice not to mention if you are a nitwit who drinks and ends up smoking you're going to mess up your voice at the same time not to mention if you do not let your voice heal after a concert and had to go do another one it's going to affect it it's going to show in the plane and also in the recording of any of the albums I mean a good person to understand that is Axl Rose from guns n' roses he had that problem and the 90s because the tour that he did with Metallica he was supposed to be on that show that night that James hetfield got caught on fire and was supposed to go up there and be the hero of that entire show well earlier that night he told Jason newsted that his voice was hurting him and Jason told him well maybe you should put down the drinking glass and the smoking and maybe it wouldn't hurt so much. And that was said on the VH1 behind the music look at David Lee Roth he don't sound the same yet he don't smoke but he don't practice singing either and he never did that and his younger years and didn't do it in the years prior to the end of Van Halen so therefore that voice is going to deteriorate it's like the old saying that they have if you do not utilize it it will go away eventually do not keep it going it will diminish anyone that's watched or went to the Van Halen concerts at the end know very well what I'm talking about. And even when you look at the documentary that bon Jovi did in 2009 he talked about it then as well that he had a hard time trying to sing like you once was so he's already admitted I don't think we need to get them to continue to sound like they used to I think we just need to appreciate what we used to have and what has evolved from where it's been and where it's at now disregard of what the voice sounds like he's still a great singer and still he has a great band that you can enjoy good quality music from just about every record that they make.
Jon doesn't want to disappoint the fans and if he cant be his best and 100 percent he wont tour because he doesn't want to charge money if he cant sing, and doesn't want to be a nostalgic artist .i can kinda understand peoples anger if they are paying hundreds to see favorite bands and they are dying on stage.a few bands put records out and dont tour for that reason, or some only tour amd dont put on new music ,poison hasnt put out a new record in yrs.
I was a major Bon Jovi fan until they started putting out lackluster albums like The Circle and especially What About Now. Strangely they did a great album with This House Is Not For Sale but 20202 was abysmal and the new one isn't much better. Personally, I've now moved on..... At least Dokken still writes great songs.
Okay. Sorry about the rant Brendon…Perfect example you guys didn’t bring it up so I will. Phil Collins he is the greatest Drummer in my eyes besides Neil Peart(R.I.P.) his vocals definitely changed and he has now physical limitations that he was facing but he said nevermind my physical status let me go out and do some shows. He did his Solo gigs sitting down everyone was happy he did that. Then Genesis came knocking. He had his son as a drummer cool he went out with Genesis. He sat again while singing and he did a great job. But he had admitted he would of loved to drum with his son. He did gigs with breaks from 2017-2022. He also had backing Vocalists for the first time with Genesis to fill out his voice. And now he’s retired well deserved. He’s missed a lot. Health is everything.
There are a lot of vocalists that sound great still. Joey Tempest Kip Winger Jeff Keith Tommy Shaw Kelly Hansen Bryan Adams Richard Marx Gary Cherone And probably the one that is the best live singer of all time.......Mickey Thomas of Starship/Jefferson Starship/Jefferson Airplane. That guy sounds amazing! Another topic is that drummers can't last as long. Drumming just beats up a body.
Yes and when Peter Criss of Kiss couldn’t keep up they got a new drummer. When Bill Ward couldn’t keep up Black Sabbath got a new drummer. So bands do what they got to do. But when your band name is the same as the front man like Don Dokken or Jon Bon Jovi, you can’t very well replace them.
Most the guys you named off have changed their tone to adjust to their age but you see what happened to Steven Tyler when he blew out his voice after just one concert delaying the entire Farwell tour last year once you start getting into your 50s the voice wears out fast if you keep pushing it
I so more respect those who may change the tempo or pitch and still sing live and try than those who use tricks , lyp sinc , auto tune .., I think if you do the latter you are cheating the fans .., . Same token as a fan I accept the fact that people age , you will not be what or sound like the same person you were 25 , 35 , 40 years ago .
No need to slam these aging rock vocalists, just simply dont buy their new stuff or pay to see em'. It is hard to hear our once stellar vocalists sounding like a shell of their former selves. Id rather, depending on how much vocal range and power they've lost, that they just retire gracefully.
There's something nobody is pointing out and I think has a lot to do with Jon Bon Jovi's current vocal issues. I'm not a vocalist, but I've been listening Bon Jovi for decades and I believe Jon had a poor vocal technique his entire career. I mean, he is the only singer I recall that sounded different almost every tour he did. I could guess the tour just by listening his vocal performance. Most fans sort of justify him saying everybody ages, but I'm sure this is beyond that. There are older legendary singers that still sound great or decent. Plus, Bon Jovi recorded songs too high for Jon, songs that even the same year Jon could barely sing live. That's why "Roulette", "Livin' On A Prayer", "Living In Sin" and "I Believe" were rarely performed like they were recorded. So, do the math. Poor vocal technique + hard songs to sing + age = Jon Bon Jovi today
Doesnt matter if his voice doesnt sound like it used to. Its all about the mediocre albums that he has been putting out. Dokken still stayed true to his 80s sound despite his vocal limitations.
I don’t think you’ve listened to all of Dokken’s albums then because between 1997 to 2004 those albums all were different including trying to sound Grunge with Shadowlife and then trying other modern sounds on the next 3 albums before returning to their 80’s sound on 2008’s Lighting Strikes Twice. So you knock Bon Jovi but other bands have also changed sounds & styles as they’ve aged.
@@BrendonSnyder wasnt knocking him at all. If he can put out one old school type record with his vocals as they are today, I would gladly accept it. Just dont care for his new material.
Yes he’s another one but he has never sounded good live. So it’s not about how he once sounded good and now he can’t do it. He is just worse now due mostly to poor living decisions he has made, drinking and not keeping in shape to help his voice. So in that instance it pisses me off too because he could do something to sound better.
Some of this is through the haziness of memory. Vince Neil and DLR were never truly great singers, especially live. People just forgave their flaws when both the audiences and performers were young.
Correct, neither of those were great live so when people complain now, I’m like why didn’t people complain back then? Poison is another one. They’re not very good live…sloppy at best. Mostly because there is lots of backing tracks added in the studio and then they can’t reproduce it live with just 4 guys. But no one seems to care because of who they are and the energy of the performance being like one big party.
As far as bon Jovi people don't give enough credit to Richie sambora for being the second singer and I think that really helped their band a lot because that mother f***** can sing his ass off. And zakk Wylde he's somebody that can sing on a record and can sing just as good live.
If you believe a singer cannot deliver the goods anymore then don’t buy a ticket and don’t go and watch his show. People should stop bitching and moaning online and talking shit about singers, they should vote with their money. As long as certain artists keep touring and they keep selling out venues and even Arenas even if they cannot perform properly ( and by that I don’t mean perform like when they were 25 but singing respectably and on tone) then they’ll keep doing it.
Funny how most Bon Jovi music enthusiasts never or rarely mention the first 2 albums which are masterpieces in the Rock genre. Slippery was commercial a very good album but like anything that commercial we never listen too long. The tour sold out of course. I listen to Slippery.. everyday for 2 months in '86 then never again. New Jersey was definitely overrated. Arenas were almost full. I think Keep the Faith came after? Then arenas were 2/3 full.
I have an opinion on this and I can use Axl Rose as an example... His voice today is not good, at all, it sounds like he's Mickey Mouse and out of breath... that said, a whole group of people who have never had a chance to see GNR now can, and with the original lineup (mostly). I genuinely love the band and think the new studio singles sound great. It's give or take, because I want too see them live for the experience, but I don't want him to become a parody of himself (say, Zeppelin at Live Aid)
At 2:26 no probably that guy cannot be as good in football as he was at 20. But he will never charges us anything if he was still trying. Bon Jovi charged me 300$. When you are a product you need to keep up. Im buying pepsi because i like it and guess..i know exactly how it will taste. All 80s bands are a joke now all cashing in on the new generation that are too stupid and lazy to have great bands like we had in the 80s
I disagree on this, consumers have every right to criticise a vocalist if they sound awful. I have respect for bonjovi for recognising this though. Maybe if he can’t sing as good and recognises this, it’s time to quit?
No one said they don’t have the right, in fact I said everyone is entitled to their opinion. What we said was that people don’t need to trash talk an artist complaining they don’t sound like they did 30 years ago and should take into account what’s changed in their life including aging.
I can’t find the part in the video where you say that everyone is entitled to their opinion. You both say that vocalists not hitting the high notes and being called out on this is criticising and trash talking ? A factual observation is not trash talking. The argument that we are not the same as we were in our youth doesn’t really hold up , in my opinion. Nobody pays for me to kick a football whereas people pay to buy his albums People getting older should not exclude them from fair criticism
You’re exact demographic the video was trying to reach. And now you’re doing the exact thing we discuss in the video. You take offense when others don’t agree with you and then lash out knocking others down. Because I didn’t agree with you, now you’re telling me the video is “muddled and not clear”. Funny how everyone else gets it but you. Sorry I can’t help you with whatever the real issue is. Im done.
Rob Halford is still hanging in there pretty well although he has changed a bit.
So, kinda funny story on this topic. Back in 2001, I was working at Tower Records in Atlanta and the Cult dropped Beyond Good and Evil. We all loved that record and had a store play copy up front we spun pretty regularly. One of the guys I worked with was the biggest Cult fan I've ever met. Not only did he have all the albums, but he had all of them autographed. One day he is up front on register and is playing his copy of Electric on the store play. In walks Ian Astbury, arms full of shopping bags from Lenox Mall, with his son who's probably 10 or 11. He takes a few steps in, stops in his tracks and goes, "Holy shit... I used to sound like this?!" After we picked our jaws up off the floor, we helped him find some DJ Shadow, he signed my buddy's new copy of Beyond Good and Evil, and left the store.
Related to this topic there's a interview with Linda Ronstadt where she explains this situation well . She basically said that she has a standard of excellence when she hits the stage . Once she realized she couldn't deliver it to a level acceptable to herself is when she hung it up and didn't want to disappoint fans. I respect that.
When I was kid my mom told me that if you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything. Over 50 and I still follow her advice. Cheers from Finland!
Hyvä neuvo👏
Guess we have a mother Teresa with us.
That's a great motto to live by, but in this current deteriorating, dreary world we live in, only saying things that are good, means there will have to be a lot of silence. We do still have the music of Led Zeppelin and The Beatles, NFL, Pizza and Ice Cream, Dogs, Salma Hayek swim suit photos......that's about it. 😵💫😵😫
Your mom plagiarized the saying
@@MikeDavis-be8gf I never said that she invented that saying. Of course it's been used before her
Anthony hit the nail right on the head, people that are disappointed by how an older singer sounds now are really looking at themselves and what they can't do any longer or failed to do when they had the chance. Excellent narrative, gentleman.
I think the truth sad reality is that a lot of these singers and bands that we've always loved have just gotten older and it just sucks because you want them to be around forever
Truth! And just who is going to take their place, besides Rival Sons?!?!
Blimey guys, what an inspirational video !!
Great stuff . I wish everyone could see this video !!
Glad you enjoyed it. 🙏
Klause Meine from the Scorpions is "timeless".
Still has incredible tone and range - Klaus is vocal God!
Really enjoy these conversations you guys have. Starts off with the music, but translates into how all this stuff is connected with life itself. Like you say, the whingers and critics are simply not happy with themselves. They want everyone else to feel the same rather than taking the positive step to change their own lives.
Well said brendon , look forward not back that's always been my moto the best is yet to come . Period .
That was a deep conversation, dude !! It's not really related but I thought of metallica, how they are constantly being criticized for not making another big album like master of puppets.. it pisses my off so bad!! it's such a childish attitude.
People get mad at artists like if they were some sort of employees.. that levelt of attachment to the past and that abuse of freedom to give childish opinions.. it's frustrating.
Like Anthony said, it's all a reflection of their own stuff going on..
Great conversation !
I was just watching an Andy Edward’s video on this subject but it was using Mike Stern Jazz Guitarist old vs new method of holding the guitar. Im so happy these conversations are being had, and we are showing ourselves how we need to change the way we expect things to be
I'm glad to hear that you're eating better. I started taking my health more seriously several years ago. Makes a big difference. Awesome!
Yeah it was time to take charge and make some changes instead of complaining about it. I’d let it go too long. I’m glad to be making the changes too. It’s been eye opening as well.
@BrendonSnyder you feel the rewards in many ways. I exercise everyday also, every little bit helps. Plan your health, not your illness 👍
I completely agree with you guys. I have no problem with change , it's just what age does to the majority of us. I love Dokken's newest album and can't imagine whining over Don's vocals changing. As someone else in the comments said , they were raised to say nothing at all if you can't say anything nice and I kinda try my best to live by that as well. There are things going on in this world to truly be concerned about , an aging rock stars vocals isn't one of them.
Always love your videos, have a great day!
Oh , and I gotta say ,Anthony's comment about having trouble bending over while making derogatory comments really hit. It was funny but oh so true. Folks can be so quick to criticize others without a second of looking at themselves.
Have you guys seen Wings Of Pegasus' report on Don Henley playbacking during a live concert? His other videos are also insightful though depressing. The voices of all major artists get pitch-corrected in the studio and auto-tuned live.
Not everyone is doing this, it’s quite blown out of proportion. People just assume that because the technology is there that as singers age if they sound good they must be using AI to fix their vocals. To me that’s the sad part. Too much misinformation out there.
@@BrendonSnyder The 'voice fixing' is on another level. According to WOP, pitch-correction is now standard practice in the music industry. They want to earn as much money as possible and they think that the audience wants perfect vocals that sound a certain way. They make it so.
I'm hoping that the artists and groups I love won't have anything to do with it, but you can't be 100% certain. One more example. Recently, Hey Jude was used in a commercial. WOP analyzed McCartney's voice and it turned out to be 'corrected' to the max.
Henley's a vocal hero of mine - I saw that episode and was deeply saddened! I'd rather these vocal legends retire gracefully than "Milli Vanilli" it! I leave it to the singer to be self aware and simply stop performing if they can't meet their own standards.
Great convo as always! I’ve never understood people getting mad about this. I’m not a huge Bon Jovi fan but saw him on Colbert and found his discussion of his past couple years really fascinating.
Always live now and look ahead , what is past gone (sometimes good , sometimes bad ) , same with the bands they make great albums back in the days , but people change and personal I always accept that this is part of the life.
You guys are amazing. Whenever I'm down for any reason listening to you guys talk about anything makes me feel lighter. We all have enough shit in our daily lives, Why not just embrace all of the music that we love and not put down others?
I really loved the message you and Anthony conveyed on here.
Great topic, and what you said is so true . You have to accept your present situation anf move forward. It is also good for our mental health. Embrace change! I am 51 and I have to adjust to my body. That's what our fave musicians do.
Great message!
Thanks! Always look forward and reach for what you want!
People want their rock stars to be like The Simpsons. They want them to look and sound how they did 30 years ago. I think that helps Jeff Lynne fill up arenas in the 2020s. He sounds pretty much the same...and with that hair and sunglasses he LOOKS the same too.
True. Kiss had it easier too with make up. Thank God for hair dye and make up.
Marge sounds like shit now
Great video guys. Rock and Roll roots was all about celebrating youth, to keep on sometimes adjustments are made. Sting openly admits to singing in lower register. I say just enjoy it or avoid it. And keep on rockin!
I echo the previous comment that Klaus from Scorpions is still ripping it up in his mid-70s. Timeless talent.
Yeah and to think that over a decade ago in 2012 the band was going to retire. I’m so glad they kept going and we’ve continued to get his talent for 12 more years and hopefully longer.
@@BrendonSnydertrue that, Brendon! I was bummed when Scorps announced their retirement, but they kept on and their last album was killer, back to heavy guitars and killer melodies! Klaus' vocals are still timeless!
Two pints. 1- that first Bon Jovi recird was so good, many fans like me just got sick of being disappointed record after recird after that. 2- we don't want guitars out of tune or bass or drums. As long as singers stay in tune/ on key, it's ok they age. It's when they can't sing anymore is when it's kinda time to hang it up. Robin Zander of Cheap Trick ( who smokes) is a freak of nature along with a handful of others. Most vocalist will age and lose their range and if you have a decent fan base, they will keep being supported. Geddy Lee aged, and yet still sold out arenas.
Robin Zander was an amazing singer and REMAINS an amazing singer! Cheap Trick rules! Great post!
"She's got to be somebody's baby..."
🎵
People like to tear stars down as much as they liked building them up in the first place. I don't think it's any more complicated than that
For me, the issue is that the vocal/lyric/melody is THE key to a song, so it doesn't even feel like the same song anymore if the vocal isn't any good. There's change, and there's deterioration, and the difference between them is immense. Elton John's voice changed after his surgery, but on record you could hear he could still sing. Bon Jovi is a different case, because he truly can't sing anymore, it's the sound of struggle, and it's painful to listen to someone trying to do something they can't.
And don't get me started on the singers who sound different after decades of smoking. I have zero sympathy for them, and I'm not sure they deserve to have people pay to listen to them howl with a voice they intentionally destroyed.
Truly, if a guitar player wasn't able to play their parts anymore, I think we would be just as hard on them, as we probably should be. When tickets cost more than ever, fans aren't willing to put up with bad performances anymore. It's not just a wasted night out, it's a big chunk of money gone down the drain.
Michael Sweet has also said he sings lower then he used to.
Sammy Hagar is probably the one who is still doing great. Pleased that JBJ has publicly acknowledged the issues and the new album is very good. 'Living Proof' is a bloody great song. Cheers Brendon.
We hear the vocalists on the albums, and it’s like a time warp for some people, and they think the vocalists should sound the same. Fans don’t realize these musicians are people just like us and as they get older they change too.
Good discussion guys!!! I grew up in the 80s and 90s with Bon Jovi. No his voice is not what it once was but he admits it. The new release is not bad....lacks the old Bon Jovi dynamic of Richie's guitar and the blending of the voices......but all in all not bad...just different. Saw a video from a performance at his new club....no he is not ready for a tour. If you don't like it dont listen....like Anthony says "Don't be a dick". Unfortunately these singers are getting older and voices change. I recently suffered from a life threatening and life changing medical emergency and can fully understand that things dont stay the same . Have a good vacation Anthony!!!!
I'm to old ta give a f**k what other people think.
🤘😎🤘
Jon Bon Jovi was always the "whipping boy" by critics all the time except probably last few albums all of a sudden they get good reviews. He was thrashed for everything from his hair to clothing and then cutting his hair and then the whole "VOICE" thing. The thing about Bon Jovi that I always find amusing is them lumped in with the "hair metal" era, when clearly they are not a metal band, yes they had hair but everyone did in those 80's especially in Jersey and Jon's age. A band that came out the bars that had more to do with Springsteen and the Jukes, than Black Sabbath or Zeppelin, I very rarely EVER hear Jon talk about a "metal" band as an influence. He himself said that "people" booking gigs had no clue what to say they "were". As for his voice I have heard this for years now, Jon's voice started losing power and showed signs when Richie left and this was because Jon then took up the rains of being both guys. The voice worsened and many times it was like he was looking for his breath and air at times. Of course this let too things like RUclips videos of "what is wrong with Jon" or "what he should do" and analysis by vocal coaches that were not even coaches. Jon has come to terms with the change or if it has to end then it ends, he even recently despite feeling better and having more strength the days of 240 show tours are OVER, and honestly the idea of that kind of a tour for anyone is really kind of over, you may see a band play half of that now or maybe a quarter but most artists now go out for a month and thats it. I can see Jovi becoming a one nite only type attraction if he does return to any form of shows.
Singers are free to do whatever they want to but some fans don’t understand their voices are not the same. Phil Collins voice isn’t there anymore and he kept on going. Love Phil’s voice ❤
another great sessions video guys. i been listening to bon jovi since i was a kid. john mellencamp great singer. i dont like people who slam singers.
mike
from canada
Get up, stand up
Stand up for your right ... The Wailers
😘
You guys made valid points in this video. However, some points of disagreement. 1. I was a fairly decent high school basketball player back in the day. If people came to watch me play today there is no way they would say I was as good as I was back in the day. That's not being mean... that's being honest. 2. Is Jon (Bon Jovi) lowering the cost of his concert tickets in an acknowledgement that people aren't getting what they expected? I doubt it. Look at professional football players. They make millions because they are great at what they do. But when they age and their skills go, are they still asking for millions? No... they don't provide that value anymore. Anyway...
This is not to shit on musicians who can't do it like they used to--like you said, we all age and, no, we can't do today what we did yesterday. I'm also not saying that these guys should retire--hey, they gotta make a living. But, if you can't provide what fans expect, maybe you shouldn't be charging full price for a half price show.
Ok but here is where your argument falls apart….Bon Jovi isn’t touring at all because he can’t sing like he used to. He isn’t even trying to go out and charge the same amount of money. If anything he is more respectable for not touring as he waits to see if his voice will return. The thing is there are plenty of people, myself included, that doing care that he doesn’t sing like he once did. I feel that in today’s age you should know what you’re getting into. There is enough info out there that Bon Jovi doesn’t sound like he used to. And if for some reason someone who has been living under a rock for 40 years and thinks that a 62 year old man will sound like he did at 22 then that person has bigger issues to attend to 😂
@@BrendonSnyder You're absolutely correct on the Bon Jovi part--I should've used a different example. Vince Neil and Don Dokken now, Paul Stanley recently. The fact is, many singers CAN still pull it off live. Sammy Hagar sounds phenomenal. I saw Winger and Kix last year--sounded great. Paul Stanley was great into his mid 60s. Hell, Brian Johnson still sounds decent. Not everyone has lost their vocal prowess, correct? Some have. Now, they can run their shows however they want, and charge whatever they want, and the record buying public can make their own choices... some acts I will still go to see, and some I won't. Not trying to start an argument, I do enjoy your channel. Just giving the other side of the opinion in this matter.
Anyway, not sure if you've ever seen my stuff--feel free to check it out sometime... or not. Take it easy.
@@BrendonSnyder Last question--does this hold true for drummers and guitar players? For example, if Tommy Lee's health goes to crap and he can't keep time at all, are we forgiving of that? Or if George Lynch's hands are jacked up and he's hitting bad notes every ten seconds? Is that something we also let go because of age?
Love the motto Don't be a dick!!
I’d like to find a nice way to say it but the reality is that the saying “don’t be a dick” perfectly sums it up. If everyone followed that way of thinking the world would be a much better place.
@@BrendonSnyder Totally agree 💯!
I have now seen this bumper sticker three or four times that says: "MEAN PEOPLE SUCK". That about sums it up, people that are mean, that are extremely negative and unfriendly are obviously unhappy! I say to these people - change your life, find ways to alter the bad path your on, I know that's not an easy thing to do, but for the sake of a happy life, well worth it! Plenty of stories about hardened criminals who have gotten out of jail and completely turned their life around!@@BrendonSnyder
Jon bonjovi says he got into acdc ,alice cooper ,kiss ,led zepplein ,but also bruce ,u gotta remember jon is from jersey not la or newyork or Britain so his influences vary and mostly rock or songwriters not t so much metal or whatever u want to label something or someone.
The question is, why do we shit on artists at all. If you live in glass houses, don't throw stones.
I can't get into the new Bon Jovi & it has nothing to do with his voice. Just can't get into the new album. But, didn't have that issue with the new Dokken & Winger. Was able to get into those albums from the first listen.
I think the same with Jon Bon Jovi, as well, I think he is not going to be like he was 40 years ago, the same with Bruce Dickinson, David Coverdale or Don Dokken, you know, they aren't going to be like they were in their heyday. I mean Biff Byford and Rob Halford are still as great as ever, but some of the vocalists in the world, they might not be great as they were, I still think they are going on well, and that is fantastic.
Bon jovi was big in the 80s. He can stay there.
I will crap on a singer of bands I am (was) a fan of mostly. Again like you said I don't have to go see them on tour or buy their music anymore. Although what sucks is some of those are charging a fortune for their tickets/merch and that's lame AF. How about having Tom Brady still playing in his 50's and asking to get paid the same salary/sponsorship as in his heyday and expecting his fans to want him to keep playing on the team with a fraction of his former skills?
19:28 Why not me? Okay I’ll take that challenge. Stay tuned….
Well let's think about this for a moment we all can't be the king's forever on that top of that mountain as a singer it takes a lot on your voice not to mention if you are a nitwit who drinks and ends up smoking you're going to mess up your voice at the same time not to mention if you do not let your voice heal after a concert and had to go do another one it's going to affect it it's going to show in the plane and also in the recording of any of the albums I mean a good person to understand that is Axl Rose from guns n' roses he had that problem and the 90s because the tour that he did with Metallica he was supposed to be on that show that night that James hetfield got caught on fire and was supposed to go up there and be the hero of that entire show well earlier that night he told Jason newsted that his voice was hurting him and Jason told him well maybe you should put down the drinking glass and the smoking and maybe it wouldn't hurt so much. And that was said on the VH1 behind the music look at David Lee Roth he don't sound the same yet he don't smoke but he don't practice singing either and he never did that and his younger years and didn't do it in the years prior to the end of Van Halen so therefore that voice is going to deteriorate it's like the old saying that they have if you do not utilize it it will go away eventually do not keep it going it will diminish anyone that's watched or went to the Van Halen concerts at the end know very well what I'm talking about. And even when you look at the documentary that bon Jovi did in 2009 he talked about it then as well that he had a hard time trying to sing like you once was so he's already admitted I don't think we need to get them to continue to sound like they used to I think we just need to appreciate what we used to have and what has evolved from where it's been and where it's at now disregard of what the voice sounds like he's still a great singer and still he has a great band that you can enjoy good quality music from just about every record that they make.
Jon doesn't want to disappoint the fans and if he cant be his best and 100 percent he wont tour because he doesn't want to charge money if he cant sing, and doesn't want to be a nostalgic artist .i can kinda understand peoples anger if they are paying hundreds to see favorite bands and they are dying on stage.a few bands put records out and dont tour for that reason, or some only tour amd dont put on new music ,poison hasnt put out a new record in yrs.
I was a major Bon Jovi fan until they started putting out lackluster albums like The Circle and especially What About Now. Strangely they did a great album with This House Is Not For Sale but 20202 was abysmal and the new one isn't much better. Personally, I've now moved on.....
At least Dokken still writes great songs.
Okay. Sorry about the rant Brendon…Perfect example you guys didn’t bring it up so I will. Phil Collins he is the greatest Drummer in my eyes besides Neil Peart(R.I.P.) his vocals definitely changed and he has now physical limitations that he was facing but he said nevermind my physical status let me go out and do some shows. He did his Solo gigs sitting down everyone was happy he did that. Then Genesis came knocking. He had his son as a drummer cool he went out with Genesis. He sat again while singing and he did a great job. But he had admitted he would of loved to drum with his son. He did gigs with breaks from 2017-2022. He also had backing Vocalists for the first time with Genesis to fill out his voice. And now he’s retired well deserved. He’s missed a lot. Health is everything.
There are a lot of vocalists that sound great still.
Joey Tempest
Kip Winger
Jeff Keith
Tommy Shaw
Kelly Hansen
Bryan Adams
Richard Marx
Gary Cherone
And probably the one that is the best live singer of all time.......Mickey Thomas of Starship/Jefferson Starship/Jefferson Airplane. That guy sounds amazing!
Another topic is that drummers can't last as long. Drumming just beats up a body.
Yes and when Peter Criss of Kiss couldn’t keep up they got a new drummer. When Bill Ward couldn’t keep up Black Sabbath got a new drummer. So bands do what they got to do. But when your band name is the same as the front man like Don Dokken or Jon Bon Jovi, you can’t very well replace them.
Most the guys you named off have changed their tone to adjust to their age but you see what happened to Steven Tyler when he blew out his voice after just one concert delaying the entire Farwell tour last year once you start getting into your 50s the voice wears out fast if you keep pushing it
I so more respect those who may change the tempo or pitch and still sing live and try than those who use tricks , lyp sinc , auto tune .., I think if you do the latter you are cheating the fans .., . Same token as a fan I accept the fact that people age , you will not be what or sound like the same person you were 25 , 35 , 40 years ago .
No need to slam these aging rock vocalists, just simply dont buy their new stuff or pay to see em'. It is hard to hear our once stellar vocalists sounding like a shell of their former selves. Id rather, depending on how much vocal range and power they've lost, that they just retire gracefully.
There's something nobody is pointing out and I think has a lot to do with Jon Bon Jovi's current vocal issues. I'm not a vocalist, but I've been listening Bon Jovi for decades and I believe Jon had a poor vocal technique his entire career. I mean, he is the only singer I recall that sounded different almost every tour he did. I could guess the tour just by listening his vocal performance. Most fans sort of justify him saying everybody ages, but I'm sure this is beyond that. There are older legendary singers that still sound great or decent. Plus, Bon Jovi recorded songs too high for Jon, songs that even the same year Jon could barely sing live. That's why "Roulette", "Livin' On A Prayer", "Living In Sin" and "I Believe" were rarely performed like they were recorded. So, do the math. Poor vocal technique + hard songs to sing + age = Jon Bon Jovi today
Vocals are the most personal... instrument. The medical is sad. Its not like these singers chose to have problems or illness.
Doesnt matter if his voice doesnt sound like it used to. Its all about the mediocre albums that he has been putting out. Dokken still stayed true to his 80s sound despite his vocal limitations.
I don’t think you’ve listened to all of Dokken’s albums then because between 1997 to 2004 those albums all were different including trying to sound Grunge with Shadowlife and then trying other modern sounds on the next 3 albums before returning to their 80’s sound on 2008’s Lighting Strikes Twice. So you knock Bon Jovi but other bands have also changed sounds & styles as they’ve aged.
@@BrendonSnyder wasnt knocking him at all. If he can put out one old school type record with his vocals as they are today, I would gladly accept it. Just dont care for his new material.
How about Vince Neil you never mentioned him it your discussion today
Yes he’s another one but he has never sounded good live. So it’s not about how he once sounded good and now he can’t do it. He is just worse now due mostly to poor living decisions he has made, drinking and not keeping in shape to help his voice. So in that instance it pisses me off too because he could do something to sound better.
Some of this is through the haziness of memory. Vince Neil and DLR were never truly great singers, especially live. People just forgave their flaws when both the audiences and performers were young.
Correct, neither of those were great live so when people complain now, I’m like why didn’t people complain back then? Poison is another one. They’re not very good live…sloppy at best. Mostly because there is lots of backing tracks added in the studio and then they can’t reproduce it live with just 4 guys. But no one seems to care because of who they are and the energy of the performance being like one big party.
As far as bon Jovi people don't give enough credit to Richie sambora for being the second singer and I think that really helped their band a lot because that mother f***** can sing his ass off. And zakk Wylde he's somebody that can sing on a record and can sing just as good live.
Richie was the soul and he definitely helped Jon even by the early 2000s with his backing vocals and harmonies
If you believe a singer cannot deliver the goods anymore then don’t buy a ticket and don’t go and watch his show. People should stop bitching and moaning online and talking shit about singers, they should vote with their money.
As long as certain artists keep touring and they keep selling out venues and even Arenas even if they cannot perform properly ( and by that I don’t mean perform like when they were 25 but singing respectably and on tone) then they’ll keep doing it.
Funny how most Bon Jovi music enthusiasts never or rarely mention the first 2 albums which are masterpieces in the Rock genre.
Slippery was commercial a very good album but like anything that commercial we never listen too long.
The tour sold out of course.
I listen to Slippery.. everyday for 2 months in '86 then never again.
New Jersey was definitely overrated.
Arenas were almost full.
I think Keep the Faith came after?
Then arenas were 2/3 full.
I have an opinion on this and I can use Axl Rose as an example...
His voice today is not good, at all, it sounds like he's Mickey Mouse and out of breath... that said, a whole group of people who have never had a chance to see GNR now can, and with the original lineup (mostly). I genuinely love the band and think the new studio singles sound great.
It's give or take, because I want too see them live for the experience, but I don't want him to become a parody of himself (say, Zeppelin at Live Aid)
At 2:26 no probably that guy cannot be as good in football as he was at 20.
But he will never charges us anything if he was still trying.
Bon Jovi charged me 300$.
When you are a product you need to keep up.
Im buying pepsi because i like it and guess..i know exactly how it will taste.
All 80s bands are a joke now all cashing in on the new generation that are too stupid and lazy to have great bands like we had in the 80s
I disagree on this, consumers have every right to criticise a vocalist if they sound awful.
I have respect for bonjovi for recognising this though.
Maybe if he can’t sing as good and recognises this, it’s time to quit?
No one said they don’t have the right, in fact I said everyone is entitled to their opinion. What we said was that people don’t need to trash talk an artist complaining they don’t sound like they did 30 years ago and should take into account what’s changed in their life including aging.
I can’t find the part in the video where you say that everyone is entitled to their opinion.
You both say that vocalists not hitting the high notes and being called out on this is criticising and trash talking ?
A factual observation is not trash talking. The argument that we are not the same as we were in our youth doesn’t really hold up , in my opinion. Nobody pays for me to kick a football whereas people pay to buy his albums
People getting older should not exclude them from fair criticism
You’re missing the point of the video.
I don’t believe so. I think the video is muddled and not particularly clear.
You’re exact demographic the video was trying to reach. And now you’re doing the exact thing we discuss in the video. You take offense when others don’t agree with you and then lash out knocking others down. Because I didn’t agree with you, now you’re telling me the video is “muddled and not clear”. Funny how everyone else gets it but you. Sorry I can’t help you with whatever the real issue is. Im done.
Apparently in the States last night there was a Trump Biden head to head
Where was Anthony!!!!!
No that is tonight.
Ah ok!! I'll look out for him !!
Worth saying again this is such a good video .
New jersey is one of the Greatest rock albums of All time bon jovi has sucks for years 🤘🇬🇧
I think you missed the point of this episode.