When I moved to Florida to teach, it felt like most places took shortcuts and broke standards in their scuba courses in order to save time and money. Then again the industry there overall could use a revamp. The over saturation of instructors there has created big turnover rates and poor training.
Thank you for this info. Unfortunately, I think this can be the case anywhere where scuba diving is popular. Somewhere that jumps to mind for me is Koh Tao, in Thailand, which is a similar story. It's a tiny island but has over 40 diving centres. With so much fierce competition for business, some dive centres there will undercut their prices significantly and offer courses that do not fulfil all the course requirements just so they can be completed faster too.
My logbook from my open water included check boxes for the skills on each dive, which I thought was good. We even had to do some of the surface skills out of order due to heavy swell and the instructor had us cross them out for the planned dive and write them in on the dive actually completed. Good work by the dive shop, but as per the video PADI need to do better. I haven't done a course with them, but my understanding is that RAID requires you to physically or digitally check off and sign all completed skills before issuing a cert, which I think is a great idea.
That's really good. Logbooks do vary a bit in quality, but having all the skills listed is a great idea so you can visually check them off as you progress through a course. Also, that's a sign of a good instructor making smart judgment calls like that. That's really good and is something I feel should really just be standard across agencies. I have some friends who are RAID instructors and from what they've told me about their courses they sound like a solid practice. They have some alternate ways to do skills which are very practical. For example: for reg recovery, they teach you to swap to your alternate first before reaching for your primary to minimise the time you have a regulator out of your mouth for.
So, 2 weeks ago I was able to take my Stress and Rescue course with react Right, but the Instructor that I do know for years, and owner of the Dive shop was honest with me, I can pass you in the course but you barely made it, and I had to repeat 3 times the rescue of an unconscious diver, he explained to me, I had to be a bit tough on you to make sure you were up to the minimum requirements, and he knows me like for 3 years, and already did dozens of dives there, took my basic sailor's permit there, as did a lot of snorkeling , friends appart, it is imperative to ask to follow the procedures and be competent, specially on a stress and rescue. On that same weekend we had a tourist there that was taking an OWD, and the guy was a bit stressed and pissed, than i discovered why, he was not up to par on the basic OWD exercises and was only recognized as a Scuba Diver, not an Open Water Diver, and the guy was like "I payed for an OWD not a lousy scuba diver license to 12 meters" and again the instructor explained, that it was his responsability as an instructor for the safety of those that took courses there, and because he didn't reach the minimums he had to give him, only the first level. And Tom this is interesting, cause, we had some divers from our own country, Portugal, that took OWD courses in the Red Sea, as you know... Atlantic Ocean as nothing to do with Red Sea, Atlantic Ocean is rough, the visibility most of the time SUCKS, and water is just 59 degrees fahrenheit 14 to 16 Celsius, my fellow citizens when they were on the boat I was able to see their scared and panicked faces before they jumped, that dark blue turquoise water was not so inviting, and you barely had a visibility of 2 meters , so, rocks seemed dark spots on the bottom, one of them.. being OWD never jumped from the boat, she was really scared, the other 3 were afraid cause they never dived from a RIB, so never jumped backwards, only did those giant steps from those super live aboard ships, from what I judged seeing those 3 OWD's is that those people couldn't EVER be let to dive together alone without a professional, and I really though that some centers, dive shops don't have the same requirements and exigence that is required for a person that is allwoed to dive with another OWD, both alone.. in the Ocean, it is dangerous.
I have a lot of respect for your instructor making those calls. It may upset certain clients but it's the right thing to do if you believe them to be unsafe and didn't fulfill the course criteria. It's one of the big reasons shown in this video why instructors need to be transparent with students about diving standards so they understand what is required for them to get certified and if they are withholding certification or asking the student to do a repeat dive they can lean back on the standards to validify their decision. Also, congratulations on completing your stress & rescue course! That's a big achievement! It's one of those courses where you become a significantly better diver after completing it and your awareness in the water increases massively. It sounds like your instructor definitely pushed you to be the best, for the course to be most effective it does need to challenge you and cause stress to the student to make it both realistic and also help them understand how to safely respond to a situation whilst under stress. As for your dive in Portugal, were you not under the supervision of a guide (Divemaster)? If not, that's bad for the dive centre not doing full due diligence before allowing the 3 OWD divers to go out unsupervised. One of the aspects overlooked by some newer divers is the fact that their certification is not just a universal "you can dive anywhere to a max of 18m/ 60 feet" it actually states that it needs to be in similar conditions to which you were certified. As you clearly stated, diving in colder & lower visibility water is much different to that of the Red Sea. Anytime a diver goes to unfamiliar dive sites or ones with different conditions than what they are used to they should do so under the supervision of a guide experienced in said area. Doing so will allow them to be briefed on the differences and how the diving differs from what they're used to (allowing them to be better prepared) and as a result, make them feel a lot calmer before and during the dive and make the whole thing a lot safer too. Hopefully, no accidents occurred on that dive with them and your new rescue skills were not put to the test 😅
@@narkedtom I explained myself poorly, every OWD or Scuba Diver, on this dive shop only dives with the presence of an Instructor and Dive Master, I was just thinking that these 3 OWD's couldn't never dive alone by themselves without a scuba professional, cause these people seemed to me ill prepared for an environment like the Ocean, being that on the Red Sea or the Atlantic. They got scared, their trim was not good, neither their buoyancy for that matter, even myself with Stress and Rescue and with more than 50 dives on my belt, i don't feel I would be so safe in my mind by diving alone with another OWD, need more dives, more experience for that to happen,and thank you, I gained a lot of respect by approaching a drowning victim, getting my reg and mask pull out in a sec is disconcerting to say the least.
I did my OWD with a really good SSI center in Egypt last year. I m currently doing a DiveMaster course over the summer on Tenerife and regularly I reach my limits and I understood that OWD is really just tge entrance and you have to do a lot of dives to get a really confident and experienced diver
That's awesome! and good luck with your divemaster course! Personally, my divemaster was one of the best times I had in my life so I'm sure you'll have a blast too! And you're completely right, as you complete more dives both your confidence and skill as a diver will increase. This is another reason why your Divemaster course will be great for you, as you will get to do plenty of dives during it.
One ting I hear is that You are only trained for the depth that you achieved in the class. Meaning, if you dibe to 45' in a class due to depth limit or conditions, technically you can only dive to 45'. Thoughts?
Your training certifies you to be able to dive without supervision in conditions similar to that which you were taught. So Strictly speaking, yes if you did complete a course and the max depth you dove to on that course was 45 feet that would be the depth limit. However, in reality, it's a requirement for divers to complete a dive where they dove to the maximum limit (i.e. 60 feet in the Open Water Course). If the conditions do not allow it, then the instructor should make the call to postpone the course until they can safely do the dive to the required depth limit. I hope that makes sense and if you have any other questions feel free to ask 😊
I was never even asked if I could swim before being certified as a PADI OW diver and was never asked to swim a single metre. (I could only do the doggie paddle at the time and very much doubt I could have done 200m non-stop) ) I was never asked to do the 10 minute float either. Also, I was never taught buoyancy and could only do a safety stop holding on to a rope. I should never have been OW certified and the PADI instructor (on reflection) was really poor and made me in to an OW diver who would place myself and others at risk. I have now been diving for 20 years and usually do a minimum 100-150 dives a year. I am Enriched Air, AOW, Deep and Rescue Diver qualified. I have seen so many bad PADI instructors and PADI dive centres. I do not believe that PADI have robust quality control systems to ensure and maintain consistently high standards. (I have also dived and had wonderful and fun times with many FANTASTIC PADI instructors, divemasters and dive centres too). All of the above is based on my own personal experience. Edit: Once I knew and understood the gaps in my scuba education, I did specific skills training sessions with (instructor) friends. I also did about 50 swimming lessons so that I learnt how to swim with reasonable technique using a variety of different strokes.
That's honestly so wild that your scuba instructor never checked if you could swim! I know you're joking about the doggie paddle, but that actually would be acceptable as long as you did the required distance - it doesn't matter how graceful the swimming is, just that you can clear the distance 😅 From this and your comment on my most recent video, I'm coming to the same conclusion as you your instructor was a bit of a cowboy. But I'm glad you've become a good diver now, and you should be proud of how far you have come. As for PADI, I think the issue is that they're the biggest diving agency so it only makes sense they have the most bad actors there. Even if all agencies had the same small percentage of bad instructors, PADI would still have the most bad ones just due to their size and how they are in most countries. So, it's no wonder you've come across more of them than instructors from other agencies. Same as you, I've seen both good and bad PADI instructors. The same can be said for other agencies I've been to too. Personally, I wait and let their diving do the talking rather than just what agency they belong to. Also, love the edit part you added in. I really admire and appreciate the divers who take the time to improve and acknowledge their shortcomings so they can be the best (and safest) divers possible. Awesome stuff! 🤙
All the certifying agencies are for profit companies. I'd like to see a video discussing whether the scuba community is best served by these companies as opposed to non-profit organizations.
I wouldn't recommend going to see a non-scuba medical professional to certify you as being fit to dive. A scuba medical should be rigorous and lengthy and needs to be specific for scuba. I don't believe an average GP would have sufficient knowledge to undertake scuba medical examination. Only a doctor who works within the scuba industry is able to do this properly (imho).
There are few things in life I loathe as much as test questions that are written poorly and you get marked wrong even though you answered right-the question itself was wrong. I do not understand how this stuff even gets through, aren’t there multiple people editing these?!
I hear you! It's frustrating that they never altered this, either. They treat it as though it's fine the way it is, so never went back to correct this.
Question for the Divers, were the standards for your scuba courses thoroughly explained to you during your course or was it not really touched on properly?
When I moved to Florida to teach, it felt like most places took shortcuts and broke standards in their scuba courses in order to save time and money. Then again the industry there overall could use a revamp. The over saturation of instructors there has created big turnover rates and poor training.
Thank you for this info. Unfortunately, I think this can be the case anywhere where scuba diving is popular. Somewhere that jumps to mind for me is Koh Tao, in Thailand, which is a similar story. It's a tiny island but has over 40 diving centres. With so much fierce competition for business, some dive centres there will undercut their prices significantly and offer courses that do not fulfil all the course requirements just so they can be completed faster too.
My logbook from my open water included check boxes for the skills on each dive, which I thought was good. We even had to do some of the surface skills out of order due to heavy swell and the instructor had us cross them out for the planned dive and write them in on the dive actually completed. Good work by the dive shop, but as per the video PADI need to do better.
I haven't done a course with them, but my understanding is that RAID requires you to physically or digitally check off and sign all completed skills before issuing a cert, which I think is a great idea.
That's really good. Logbooks do vary a bit in quality, but having all the skills listed is a great idea so you can visually check them off as you progress through a course. Also, that's a sign of a good instructor making smart judgment calls like that.
That's really good and is something I feel should really just be standard across agencies. I have some friends who are RAID instructors and from what they've told me about their courses they sound like a solid practice. They have some alternate ways to do skills which are very practical. For example: for reg recovery, they teach you to swap to your alternate first before reaching for your primary to minimise the time you have a regulator out of your mouth for.
So, 2 weeks ago I was able to take my Stress and Rescue course with react Right, but the Instructor that I do know for years, and owner of the Dive shop was honest with me, I can pass you in the course but you barely made it, and I had to repeat 3 times the rescue of an unconscious diver, he explained to me, I had to be a bit tough on you to make sure you were up to the minimum requirements, and he knows me like for 3 years, and already did dozens of dives there, took my basic sailor's permit there, as did a lot of snorkeling , friends appart, it is imperative to ask to follow the procedures and be competent, specially on a stress and rescue. On that same weekend we had a tourist there that was taking an OWD, and the guy was a bit stressed and pissed, than i discovered why, he was not up to par on the basic OWD exercises and was only recognized as a Scuba Diver, not an Open Water Diver, and the guy was like "I payed for an OWD not a lousy scuba diver license to 12 meters" and again the instructor explained, that it was his responsability as an instructor for the safety of those that took courses there, and because he didn't reach the minimums he had to give him, only the first level.
And Tom this is interesting, cause, we had some divers from our own country, Portugal, that took OWD courses in the Red Sea, as you know... Atlantic Ocean as nothing to do with Red Sea, Atlantic Ocean is rough, the visibility most of the time SUCKS, and water is just 59 degrees fahrenheit 14 to 16 Celsius, my fellow citizens when they were on the boat I was able to see their scared and panicked faces before they jumped, that dark blue turquoise water was not so inviting, and you barely had a visibility of 2 meters , so, rocks seemed dark spots on the bottom, one of them.. being OWD never jumped from the boat, she was really scared, the other 3 were afraid cause they never dived from a RIB, so never jumped backwards, only did those giant steps from those super live aboard ships, from what I judged seeing those 3 OWD's is that those people couldn't EVER be let to dive together alone without a professional, and I really though that some centers, dive shops don't have the same requirements and exigence that is required for a person that is allwoed to dive with another OWD, both alone.. in the Ocean, it is dangerous.
I have a lot of respect for your instructor making those calls. It may upset certain clients but it's the right thing to do if you believe them to be unsafe and didn't fulfill the course criteria. It's one of the big reasons shown in this video why instructors need to be transparent with students about diving standards so they understand what is required for them to get certified and if they are withholding certification or asking the student to do a repeat dive they can lean back on the standards to validify their decision.
Also, congratulations on completing your stress & rescue course! That's a big achievement! It's one of those courses where you become a significantly better diver after completing it and your awareness in the water increases massively. It sounds like your instructor definitely pushed you to be the best, for the course to be most effective it does need to challenge you and cause stress to the student to make it both realistic and also help them understand how to safely respond to a situation whilst under stress.
As for your dive in Portugal, were you not under the supervision of a guide (Divemaster)? If not, that's bad for the dive centre not doing full due diligence before allowing the 3 OWD divers to go out unsupervised. One of the aspects overlooked by some newer divers is the fact that their certification is not just a universal "you can dive anywhere to a max of 18m/ 60 feet" it actually states that it needs to be in similar conditions to which you were certified. As you clearly stated, diving in colder & lower visibility water is much different to that of the Red Sea. Anytime a diver goes to unfamiliar dive sites or ones with different conditions than what they are used to they should do so under the supervision of a guide experienced in said area. Doing so will allow them to be briefed on the differences and how the diving differs from what they're used to (allowing them to be better prepared) and as a result, make them feel a lot calmer before and during the dive and make the whole thing a lot safer too. Hopefully, no accidents occurred on that dive with them and your new rescue skills were not put to the test 😅
@@narkedtom I explained myself poorly, every OWD or Scuba Diver, on this dive shop only dives with the presence of an Instructor and Dive Master, I was just thinking that these 3 OWD's couldn't never dive alone by themselves without a scuba professional, cause these people seemed to me ill prepared for an environment like the Ocean, being that on the Red Sea or the Atlantic. They got scared, their trim was not good, neither their buoyancy for that matter, even myself with Stress and Rescue and with more than 50 dives on my belt, i don't feel I would be so safe in my mind by diving alone with another OWD, need more dives, more experience for that to happen,and thank you, I gained a lot of respect by approaching a drowning victim, getting my reg and mask pull out in a sec is disconcerting to say the least.
I did my OWD with a really good SSI center in Egypt last year.
I m currently doing a DiveMaster course over the summer on Tenerife and regularly I reach my limits and I understood that OWD is really just tge entrance and you have to do a lot of dives to get a really confident and experienced diver
That's awesome! and good luck with your divemaster course! Personally, my divemaster was one of the best times I had in my life so I'm sure you'll have a blast too! And you're completely right, as you complete more dives both your confidence and skill as a diver will increase. This is another reason why your Divemaster course will be great for you, as you will get to do plenty of dives during it.
One ting I hear is that You are only trained for the depth that you achieved in the class. Meaning, if you dibe to 45' in a class due to depth limit or conditions, technically you can only dive to 45'. Thoughts?
Your training certifies you to be able to dive without supervision in conditions similar to that which you were taught. So Strictly speaking, yes if you did complete a course and the max depth you dove to on that course was 45 feet that would be the depth limit. However, in reality, it's a requirement for divers to complete a dive where they dove to the maximum limit (i.e. 60 feet in the Open Water Course). If the conditions do not allow it, then the instructor should make the call to postpone the course until they can safely do the dive to the required depth limit.
I hope that makes sense and if you have any other questions feel free to ask 😊
Fun fact - when i got certified, i didn't know how to swim. 😂
Whaaaat?! That's wild! Hopefully you can swim now, right?
I was never even asked if I could swim before being certified as a PADI OW diver and was never asked to swim a single metre.
(I could only do the doggie paddle at the time and very much doubt I could have done 200m non-stop) )
I was never asked to do the 10 minute float either.
Also, I was never taught buoyancy and could only do a safety stop holding on to a rope.
I should never have been OW certified and the PADI instructor (on reflection) was really poor and made me in to an OW diver who would place myself and others at risk.
I have now been diving for 20 years and usually do a minimum 100-150 dives a year.
I am Enriched Air, AOW, Deep and Rescue Diver qualified.
I have seen so many bad PADI instructors and PADI dive centres.
I do not believe that PADI have robust quality control systems to ensure and maintain consistently high standards.
(I have also dived and had wonderful and fun times with many FANTASTIC PADI instructors, divemasters and dive centres too).
All of the above is based on my own personal experience.
Edit: Once I knew and understood the gaps in my scuba education, I did specific skills training sessions with (instructor) friends. I also did about 50 swimming lessons so that I learnt how to swim with reasonable technique using a variety of different strokes.
That's honestly so wild that your scuba instructor never checked if you could swim! I know you're joking about the doggie paddle, but that actually would be acceptable as long as you did the required distance - it doesn't matter how graceful the swimming is, just that you can clear the distance 😅
From this and your comment on my most recent video, I'm coming to the same conclusion as you your instructor was a bit of a cowboy. But I'm glad you've become a good diver now, and you should be proud of how far you have come.
As for PADI, I think the issue is that they're the biggest diving agency so it only makes sense they have the most bad actors there. Even if all agencies had the same small percentage of bad instructors, PADI would still have the most bad ones just due to their size and how they are in most countries. So, it's no wonder you've come across more of them than instructors from other agencies.
Same as you, I've seen both good and bad PADI instructors. The same can be said for other agencies I've been to too. Personally, I wait and let their diving do the talking rather than just what agency they belong to.
Also, love the edit part you added in. I really admire and appreciate the divers who take the time to improve and acknowledge their shortcomings so they can be the best (and safest) divers possible. Awesome stuff! 🤙
All the certifying agencies are for profit companies. I'd like to see a video discussing whether the scuba community is best served by these companies as opposed to non-profit organizations.
I wouldn't recommend going to see a non-scuba medical professional to certify you as being fit to dive.
A scuba medical should be rigorous and lengthy and needs to be specific for scuba.
I don't believe an average GP would have sufficient knowledge to undertake scuba medical examination.
Only a doctor who works within the scuba industry is able to do this properly (imho).
There are few things in life I loathe as much as test questions that are written poorly and you get marked wrong even though you answered right-the question itself was wrong. I do not understand how this stuff even gets through, aren’t there multiple people editing these?!
I hear you! It's frustrating that they never altered this, either. They treat it as though it's fine the way it is, so never went back to correct this.
Question for the Divers, were the standards for your scuba courses thoroughly explained to you during your course or was it not really touched on properly?
Yes. My instructor was a former Navy Diver and also a Dr. He made us learn dive tables and fill out many many of them. We dug into it. He was great.
👍😎🤿🇵🇭! Enjoyed your point of view!
Thank you, Joseph! 😊🤿