KTM TPI Top End Replacement After 124 Hours! Must Watch! 2019 KTM 300 XC-W TPI
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2024
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As promised, here is the video showing the rebuild of the 2019 KTM 300 XC-W TPI bike after 124 hard hours. I took the bike to Kevin at MotoXperts in Spanish Fork UT so that he could give his opinion on whether or not there were any problems and if he could tell any difference between this motor and the other motors they see on a regular basis that are carbureted 2 stroke pre-mix bikes.
He said that this piston and cylinder looked just like all the other motors they see in his shop. No extra wear or scaring on this baby. We took that oil pump all the way up to 124 hours. While doing the top end on this bike, we did install a new oil pump for good measure. That is probably a good idea to replace when doing a top end on your TPI bike.
So now this bike is ready for at least another 100 hours that will be put on by the new owner of the bike when the sweepstakes ends here in just a few days.
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That exhaust has seen better days!
Agreed that was a pretty big Dent.....
I like the tech. He doesn't say too much or overstate things. It gives you a good idea of what things matter, mainly, air filter and oil injection.
Too many people try to show off their encyclopedic knowledge and end up burying the main points or speculating.
Thank you 👍🏼 I’m still trying to figure out what to do with my hands in these videos 😂
At 270 hours, my 2019 TE 300i runs great and has 190 lbs compression. These motors last a very long time in single track use with proper care.
Even in this video I;m not sure i would have changed that piston. Double ring piston and low rpm this motor will achieve 4 stroke like engine life using a good oil like klotz.
Great Bike. A refined and modern 2 stroke in my opinion is a better machine than the 4 strokes.
No kidding, 100 hours trail riding is nothing. 150 is a very safe interval, 200 shouldn't be an issue. The real danger seems to be piston skirt wear if your PV flapper gets alot of buildup causing wear and skirt failure on the exhaust side.
@@infidelmat this is the best advice in my opinion. With this build up could wear new piston out in no time
@@infidelmat can you say that again with more friendly terms pls? My 85 blew up only on the exhaust port just like u said.. intake side and right and left side were perfectly fine. Maybe like 15-20 hours on top end when it happened
@@melo5848 85s (and all small bores) have much much lower service intervals, we were talking about big bore KTMs specifically in trail/enduro. Those little bikes are a whole other thing that I really can't say may, but there are plenty of forums for everything out there.
People will never believe you can hit 125 hrs and more on a 2 stroke, when; properly jetted and maintained. Thanks for sharing this video. Since I got to know this channel I've been impacted to know someone else knows this.
Kyle, thank you. Whether or not it was necessary, I appreciate you putting a fresh top end on the bike BEFORE I WIN IT.
All 3 of our TE300i's (2021) have gone past 400h each on stock piston. They're about 450 now and I am changing the piston for the first time. Granted these are bikes for tours, and they are rarely revved hard (no racing and most guys coming for a ride are offroad beginners) I'd say this is a pretty good bike! (stock piston, stock chain, sprockets, etc.)
Superb video Kyle! There's so much uncertainty floating around on the net regarding TPI so this was reassuring to see. Made me decide to get one. Thanks, much appreciated!
excellent video good to hear from a tech that works on these bikes all the time puts all the crap about tpi bikes to rest thanks Kyle👍🇬🇧
Last 250 2-stroke I had I rebuilt the top end at 150 hours and it was fine, could have happily gone another 25 hours +
That was a mix of trails, enduro practice and a few races. Awesome engines
Much appreciated KB. You are very valuable to the dirt bike community..
Sold my 2019 TE300i to a friend at 300 hours, original piston. It is now over 400 hours on that original piston and needs to be rebuilt. Pretty amazing.
Well done Kyle, it's always good to get a second opinion and another perspective on this newer technology in the dirt bike realm.
These are an amazing bike. No regrets. No mods needed other than suspension/rider setup, add an exhaust guard and fork bleeders. Done.
This video answered the questions I had that gave me reservations about buying a new KTM or Husqvarna. While I can't afford one now, I plan on getting one in the future. Great job and thanks for the quality products on your site.
Outstanding video. Exactly what us seasoned Vets like to see. Preventative is Cheap on a 2 stroke, so top end every 100 hours and parts pay for themselves. Braap!
Great video Kyle. I have a 2017 xc250 and it is a great bike . I hadn't ridden off road sence the early 80s . Can't believe how much better new bikes are. XC250 does everything well. Next time I may look at a 300 but can't imagine it could be better. My 250 has about 20 hrs sence rebuild by 2nd owner. He had it done by local shop with a good rep. I'll ride it 50 or so and have a look inside. Can't believe how well modern 2 strokes hold up. Expensive but worth it. Last bike was 75 yz360. Big difference.
158 hours on my 250 xc-w! Due for top end.. still runs good. Noticeable power loss
By a top end do people mean just the rings or the whole piston and rings.
@@itsd.k9487 whole piston and rings..
Generally a couple hundred dollars for everything you need. Then if you wanna rebuild or jet the carb.
Great insight! Thanks! and Sounds like he was hesitant to admit bikes can go higher hours than manual recommendation, he's gotta walk a fine line in a Porfitting Service Repair Shop.
I’ve been really looking forward to seeing this video, awesome job kyle
170 hours on my 2019 300 TPI. No issues whatsoever. I ride hard enduro and I did many races with it including Roof of Africa, IMPIs and EWXC Race seasons. Since top end done i don't even any power gain. Bike feels exactly the same.
I had a 2017 250xc and I easily got 125h on it, just lost that slight compression but I was so amazed on how long my top end lasted and nothing broke on it for the 2 years and 6 months i had it, just tires and sprockets
I loved my TPI bike, but like you pointed out I used the recommended oil, never had issues, though I didn't put huge numbers of hours on the bike. Great video as usual.
Nice short video Kyle, having bought a 2020 300 that makes me confident that doing maintenance like always will probably result in a long lasting bike. Since i have a 920h original internal 500exc that seen hell i think i can make it 😂
Nice! That engine's insides looked great!
TPI oil pumps are generally reliable. The big thing to watch out for is don't get any dirt at all, not even a tiny bit, into the oil tank. Contamination can easily cause the sensitive oil pump to fail.
I prefer a Lectron carb equipped bike due to the stone axe simple nature of it. TPI is a binary on/off switch - it is awesome until it isn't, then it is a nightmare.
A Lectron is even more simple than a Minkuni carb with it's multiple jet circuits, and the metering rod carb really does compensate well for varying elevation and temp changes. I live in CO and ride in CO and UT, so the bike ('18 300 XC) sees a lot of big temp and elevation swings. Always spot on after the initial dial in was completed with the Lectron, and it manages to do that with a mechanically simple design. That is a win when it comes to dirt bikes. Simple is good.
This channel single handedly got me into dirt bikes! I can’t stop watching I bought a old Baja motor sports 125cc what would be a good next bike I’m ready for something a little new and faster!?
Hey there! Id recommend trying as many different bikes as you can. Ride the bikes of friends, sit on bikes at stores etc. That way you will find your perfect match ;-)
I'm at 70 hours bone stock on a '22 250 xcw with nothing more than very frequent oil changes and very frequent air filter cleanings. I warm it up with 0 throttle per manual and it's been taking good care of me :)
I just rolled 75 hours on my 22 xcw-300 and all I have done is tires. Air filter maintenance. Gas and oil. All technical single track. I warm it up the right way and installed a fan. I'll do the top end next winter at 150-175 hours.
Had 300 hours on my 08 300 xcw before a teardown ,( a drowning ) . Casual trail riding, Optimal at 100:1 ,no more than normal wear.
Thank you for the video Kyle. I was happy to learn TPI worked well on your bike, and for those who have commented here. Unfortunately, my experience with the Husqvarna TE150i 2020 is different. After 25 hours the top end was completely gone. The cylinder and piston were burnt out due to insufficient oil in the mix. We found no issues with the oil pump and the assumption was that updating the map software would resolve the problem. at the 45 hour mark (20 hours after the previous top-end rebuild) the engine malfunctioned again, but now, due to too much oil in the mix. I was told (once again) that a new software update would resolve the issues I have been experiencing thus far. It would come as no surprise that I lost confidence in the technology and any comments, suggestions, or recommendations that may assist me will be greatly appreciated.
So sorry you had a bad experience. Me and my group haven't have any problems with ours other than that fuse blowing that I have mentioned over and over.
Try a coober ecu. They work with factory ktm and build ecus with no emissions restraints. They map the ecu how the factory should and would if it weren’t for overbearing government rules.
TPI motors are run way too lean to satisfy the Euro 4 emission requirements and give the owner short engine life. No thanks, I will keep my carbed 2 strokes.
@@the_g371 Until I can get at least 237 hours before a top end rebuild like on my carbed 2 strokes, I disagree.
I am an older rider, so I guess it's okay for the young riders of today to spend 10 grand on a bike with a very short life motor. Be my guest.
@@carlatamanczyk3891 have you ridden a modern TPI 250/300? Performance characteristics might change your mind.... A well cared for TPI can go 150-200 hours unless you're in the dunes or something wild
My 2019 300 exc TPI lasted 6.3 hours. Sounds like something in the bottom end. Although a little disappointed, I must say KTM UK are very good at communicating with customers. I have to take it in to the dealer for diagnostics and then hopefully they will offer some kind of goodwill towards the coat of repair.
Love the channel though Kyle. Wish we had trails like yours in the UK
What ended up being wrong?
@@tonyt1554 Completely collapsed main bearing. Ended up having it replaced and the crank rebuilt. Luckily no other damage. Unfortunately KTM ruled it as corrosion being the cause and although I disagreed with them I had to pay for the repair. Not the best for 6.3 hours but just unluck I suppose
You mentioned a type b piston after the hone. My question is what happens after the next build? Stay with b or options?
The oil pump is my biggest worry with the TPI bikes. Is there any way of knowing if the pump quits like a light coming on? Would love to have one of these and it would be interesting to see if the people that had issues with the pump were running a different oil or not.
206 hours on my 2015 250xc did top end at 125 hours, runs as good as new !
The point is fuel injected ones are having problems not the carb bikes
I went over and looked at some sled talk to see what's going on with the piston and rings. Looks like oil-cooled piston, but maybe better lube coming??
I have been riding my 2008 ktm 200 Iv put over 300 hours on it and it’s still running perfect
300 hours with same piston?
Hi Kyle! What size of the piston do you recommend for replacement after 100 hours of the hobby ride on KTM 300 tpi?
Can’t wait to someday have a ktm300xcw! Just nine days until the sweepstakes. Crossing my fingers and toes
Amen !
The wash pattern on that piston was nice. Good A/F ratio..
Hey!
Just scrolled to the comments, did not find anyone aksing this:
When would you recommend doing a bottom-end rebuild, meaning connection rod replacement with bearings, crankshaft bearings, etc?
In my ktm manual they recommend this after 80 hours of usage, so including piston change and cylinder check. I think this is not neccessary so early?
You weren't worried about the factory Nikasil coating on the cylinder walls when he re-honed the cylinder?
Yah this is the beauty of our bikes...these 300s (for trail) run for ever it seems!
How many hours did you run your yz250x before doing the top end?
Good commentary and info. Thanks!
But Kial we have to remember this bike is using an aftermarket ecu as well? Which may change results to the standard bike..
If the cylinder and piston is in good shape could you just change the rings ?
Great Job Kevin!
You should do the piston more often, good time to clean the power valve also
That's cute.
My 4 stroke RFS motor has 720 hours with first piston. :-)
And still going strong.
I bet you and you’re boyfriend are real cute on your 4 stroke
@@pinhead_larry4893 yes we are
@@dac999 Heeee larious guys 🤣🤣🤣🤣 wanna talk about 9 vs 45 now heh
Diesels will last a long time, as well as outdated heavy pigs 😂
The RFS motor is legendary in reliability. But is also a 4 banger and not same as 2t
Hey Kyle and good morning, I just purchased a 2020 250xc tpi and I cant find a skid plate for it anywhere , I never road before and this is my first ever dirt bike, that's my other question you think I did the right thing
I’m looking to get a two stroke how much would you expect to pay for a rebuild like this without oil pump
Very nice :) Thanks for the tips!!
great videos. thanks for the hard work
I’m new to the dirt bike world. I hope this is not a stupid question but do 4-strokes have this issue?
I've been in this industry for 4 decades, the 2019 250 and 300 XCW and XC TPI motors and suspension is the very best KTM/Husky has ever produced. I currently own 2021 and 2022 XCW and an XC and the 2019 is the best best bike of all time. Just FYI to all of you guys looking for bikes out there. If you want to make the suspension even better, to go Slavens Racing and you can find everything you need. But stay with the 2019 bike.
THX for that !
I have same engine on my 300HVA
All is ok
I cannot help but wonder how many increments piston sizes come in if mechanics keep cleaning/removing cylinder metal. Hopefully it's something like 12 and they aren't more expensive then the originals. If not, 2nd hand 300s may become junk & new ones only last 1 or2 top end rebuilds. Something to consider.
All pump failures I know about were not using Motorex oil. Mine has 295 hours and it looks like new just opened it yesterday 🙂 for it's second top end re-build as I do mine every 150 hours
My 2020 6 Day has 130 hours, and is running perfect.
"Except that time I was dumb as hell"...so humble Kyle.
Is there a slower video which shows all the steps taken when changing a TPI Top End?
If you wind one lmk
Too soon for me. But everyone is different. Great video as usual.
What does your tech think of the head design without squish band? Why has ktm changed the head design?
All the new engine design revisions on the TPI bikes have been targeted at producing lower emissions, not necessarily increased power.
Very informative video thanks 👍🇬🇧
How much does it cost for a full top end service?
Replace the oil pump every 100 hours??!! KTM should have adopted Yamaha's 1970's mechanical Yamalube pump system. With '70's Yamaha enduro's still running around, it seems much more reliable and durable than the KTM oil pump.
I thought that the next size bigger piston is not to maintain compression but to stop excessive piston rock in the over sized cylinder. New rings and the cylinder hone would maintain the compression? Good video BTW
Correct !!! , 001 on a set of new piston and rings will not change the compression at all , the oversize piston is to help piston slap or rock
That’s correct. I failed to further explain that point at the end of the video. However, like Rusty said, the cylinder bore size is .001 larger than stock so that’s the main reason why we jumped up to the B piston was to achieve the correct cylinder to piston clearance. The other reason is because the pistons fatigue over time and if you choose to just swap in new rings you run the risk of cracking a skirt from too much piston rock.
Why does KTM not place a warning sensor on oil pressure. No oil pressure a light comes on.
Nice video.
exactly what I think, and some message displayed on the dash in case of oil pump failure - eject! eject! this system is ticking bomb otherwise.
Super smart idea. Hell even a small red light tucked away somewhere would be a lot better than nothing
@mateuszsymbula LOL pump with no pressure, that's a good one....
@@robsonenduro3316 There's no pressure because it just gravity feeds into the intake after the pump. Since there is no resistance it never builds any measurable pressure.
No oil pressure, motors toast already!
So, can the carbon be burned off? ... and where would the carbon go if it was burned off? Nice vid ...
The marks on the piston are that of being the thrust side, totally normal, blow-by doesnt leave marks, its from the piston rod:stroke ratio when its forced down, some force is pushed to the side (thrust side). Use a compression tester for that. Over 160hrs on mine and another i know of over 400hrs and never been opened. Another I know did top end over 200 and didnt even need it. This one looks fine yet. You failed to mention the biggest determining factor for rebuilding....compression test.
Thanks for this update, looks good.
I have trouble trusting an electric solenoid plunger pump as there is absolutely no redundancy built in.
What's wrong with an electronically metered mechanical pump where the mechanical pump will supply the max unrestricted amount of oil if the electronic metering fails, mechanical oil pump failures are extremely rare compared to the regularity you hear of these types failing and you're still passing your emission tests with precisely controlled oil metering until the day the electronics decide not to work....the difference being the engine isn't going to seize from lack of lubrication when the electrics do crap out.....just more exhaust smoke and maybe a plug foul.
The electronic oil pump and programming on the TPI allows for an extremely lean oil mixture under no load (at idle) to reduce emissions and “loading up” but also allows for a far richer mixture under high load/rpm to prevent seizing or scuffing. A mechanical or Venturi style pump simply doesn’t have that kind of range.
Looks like an easy swap. Carry a spare??
@@kevinegbert1251 That's why I was talking about an electronically metered mechanical pump with the fail safe being it will poke the maximum oil (un-metered) in if the electronic metering fails instead of no oil being injected when the current design fails.
Carry a spare. Lol. When it is seized that won't help you.
Pretty crazy to need a larger piston after just 140 hrs on the cylinder. Maybe they honed it too much? Idk. Seems too soon to me.
I can't seem to get a straight answer on whether engine braking on these bikes is okay or not.
MXP does nice work. They ported an atv head for me bitd.
Yes good run down on a long term tpi.
love MotoXperts
What do they put in the engine seals?
How many miles on those 125 hours ?
whaat i have to replace my cr 85 piston every 20-30 hours, and my 4 stroke raptor 250 every 80 hours. how does this last so long?
Honda and Yamaha are shit and KTM are awesome that’s how.
great video, thank you
Have a link to a Nikil Sil hone???
if you have heavy carbon build up it could be a sign of a lean condition as running rich kinda washes away the carbon on the top of the piston. Anyways nice job
Porque mi tpi falla en alta como si le faltara gasolina que crea que sea la falla amigo
Thanks for the video
Forums are a good source of real world experience , just like this one example of .
Great video
So did it really need a new piston assembly or just a new ring set?
If ur on a budget rings and cleaning the piston would have done the job for another 50 hours. But a fresh top end is always better
I’ve seen too many shattered skirts to feel good about reusing a piston with over 100 hrs. The Teflon was also worn off completely and the cylinder mic’d out at the size of a “B” piston. Running the larger B piston will reduce piston rock and overall cylinder wear over the next 100 hrs.
Damn thats a big piston
been doing research on this bike for a month or so, looking to buy one sometime in the next year. this helps a lot!
only thing im concerned with is dual sporting it. i plan to ride it on the rode a fair amount aswell as the woods... dont know how its gonna like that, and there isnt a whole lot of decisive info out there on how it reacts to rode use.
I’ve ridden mine on a road a fair amount and it does fine. The stock gearing is good for about 55-60mph. And faster for long stretches and you’ll want to gear it up.
@@johnnyreb86 that sounds great! I've heard concerns about it wearing differently on the road.. but as usual the internet says all kinds of different things that may or may not be true.
I have put 300+ hours on a couple KTM 300’s that were plated. Truth is the 4 stroke bikes are far better dualsports. They just run a lot better at lighter throttle loads.
Do you retorque the head after a heat cycle? I just rebuilt the top end on my 500 exc and im getting mixed answers on that subject.
I’ve never experienced or seen head gasket issues on the hundreds of motors that we build and we don’t re-torque after heat cycling. That being said, you won’t hurt anything to re-torque the head bolts/nuts if it makes you feel better.
Kevin Egbert I just did it and the bolts turned about a 1/16th. Now I can sleep haha.
Rechecking torque isn’t gonna hurt a thing.
The Eastern front i was more concerned with not retorquing and possibly blowing a head gasket
Out of curiosity how much should a guy expect to pay for a top end rebuild? I know the price varies but I am looking for a ballpark answer. I have 80 hrs on my 2017 so I would like to be prepared for when the time comes.
XCW 300 2T
GET ECU or stock?
Hi Kyle
Got 2005 kdx 220, never did top end, ring, piston...etc. Keep Air filter, always clean, lube chain, run 1/32 like recommend, semi synthetic 2T kawasaki oil. Compression 150psi. Looking for beta xtrainer, next bike, want reliability like kdx. I like to ride, technical.
Keep good work👍
Nothing is as reliable as that KDX
+ baked on carbon means its running weak. Oil wash and minimal carbon mean its running rich(er). What you want is a fairly washed top with a minimal carbon pattern.
Hi, how many mm it must be the SQUISH in a original 300 TPI?
I would love to know also - did you ever figure?
I have a question.. can air filter be oil with 2stroke oil with jaso FC gred?
Never heard of that. Don’t take chances on your air filter. I don’t clean mine after every ride, only if it’s really dirty. The important part is to oil it with good air filter oil (not spary on) AND MAKE A RING OF GREASE ON THE AIRFILTER where it connects. So no dust can get bt
Just use a good air filter oil. Air filter oil is designed and formulated to remain sticky after everything evaporates. If your filter oil doesn’t remain sticky it’s not catching all the fine dust particles that will eventually exfoliate the insides of your engine 😉
I thought you should not hone the nickel from the cylinder?
We didn't hone it away.
Dirt Bike Channel But would it be fine to just run it as is in this case?
The Nikasil plating is extremely durable and a light hone doesn’t actually remove a measurable amount of material (cylinder mic’s out the same before and after). The hone simply helps to remove glazing and freshens up the cross-hatching in the cylinder to help seat the new rings and increases lubricity between the cylinder and piston/rings.
GET ECU or stock?
I remember putting thousands of hours on my 125 and 250’s as a kid and never did a top end. Probably lost some power but never broke down, just rode the hell out of them.
Me too man. I had a 97 cr125 that I ran I maxima 927 for like 5 years, beat the hell out of the thing with no issues.
base on that piston you can stretch the hours for 200
good info
That is not blow by on piston below the rings
On a two stroke exhaust goes down the transfers momentarily before the pressure dumps enough out the exhaust and charge can come up too from the bottom end.
Nice to get a update on the tpi rebuild, also what type of sealant does he use on the pv cover gaskets?
Cheers
I think it’s just grease to hold it in place