One new plane killed them. As a 14 year old seeing the lights and story line of the wwf it was very entertaining compared to our local on the matt wrestling show that was more wrestling less story line
@@sergf3624 English and 2 other languages but unfortunately not much of any of them when the whisky kicks in. Edited my comment to make sense, the point remains the same ;)
@@weaselg-dx5ys You remember the time Bruce Prichard denied forcing Daffney to wrestle with a concussion or she won't be booked in future, then sent her threatening emails, which he later denied until she provided them as evidence when she sued TNA for damages and lost earnings, right?
I find it funny and scary that in 2020 we live in a reality where thanks to his podcast people actually believe Bruce's shill BS even though he is a notorious Vince brown noser going back DECADES!
I hated Cornette when I was a kid watching wrestiling. I love the man after becoming an adult and looking into the behind the scenes of wrestling. To me that means he did his job well. Dig those southern analogies Jimmy!
The one thing I love about Dark Side of the Ring is you get to see the WWE archive footage without all the WWE-produced horseshit. I watched the WWE documentary on WrestleMania a while back and all the guys felt like they were being spoon fed these company lines and catchphrases over and over instead of speaking candidly about their memories. And in retrospect, WWE threw away so much damn money after the other two companies folded and they began transitioning into that Ruthless Agression Era. Awful misuse of WCW and their bigger stars when they jumped, fumbling around with Austin, Vince hugging Bischoff. The lack of competition really brought out the arrogance in Vince and led to so much proverbial money burning in that time.
your right esp ,when they bury every other company and make it seems if they were stupid and didn't know how to run a pro wrestling company...when in fact they did...
@@jackstraw4222 wcw had absolutely no idea how to run a company. They literally lost the business because of that. Viewership sunk about as fast as the titanic and stayed there. Their contracts were ridiculous and would never be sustainable. Eventually that black hole of money loss, was put out of its misery by the network executives
@ShadowAngel he was able to bring a good level of entertainment though skin color aside. Was he a full time champion of course not but filled the role perfectly
@ShadowAngel you sure the ppv buy rate didn't go down because Hogan was stripped of the world title and it was given to Jeff Jarrett that could be a way bigger reason people turned away especially after russo was talking shit about Hogan.
He is so criminally underated and understated its untrue. He should and could have been a top guy and world champion in 2004-05 when he was over as fuck, but Vince never saw him as a main event guy.
@@freedomisslavery6840 Hell yes you're correct. I've thought that for years. He was right on the cusp in 04/05 and should have been elevated. One of the best natural heels of the whole era. Still can't believe Vince fucked that up. Coulda had a top weasel heel for years.
One thing i’ve grown to really respect about Steve Austin is that yes he had his political moments BUT he could always back it up with wrestling logic. Austin knew once Brock beat him,there would never be a major payoff to it. Not to mention Austin had carried the company to a level it would have never made it to and here they are figuring Hulk Hogan into modern storylines. Vince expects loyalty from the Boys but he does not reciprocate that loyalty. Just like how Hogan didnt have to put Bret over then Shawn didn’t have to either. Vince will use a guy up then when he’s done with you,creatively you’re left for dead. Austin didnt appreciate being fed Scott Hall at WM18 either.
@akay akbar yeah, The Rock did what was best for talent and put Brock over. The rock was on his way out the door to Hollywood too so that also played a factor in a one off match between The Rock and Brock. But it had a build to it and wasn't just a stupid KOR qualifying match that came out of nowhere. Dont get me wrong, I was upset when Steve no showed for the Brock match. Hell, they advertised that match on Raw and I was super excited to see it cause I knew these guys never crossed paths before and it was a big deal. Vince came out and called Steve a coward for walking and actually made me feel like he turned his back on his fans for no showing that night. I thought it was a work but it was a shoot straight from the hip.
How to torpedo your viewership in less than a year: 1. Take the biggest babyface of all time and turn him heel. 2. Take the greatest dream feud of all time that wrestling fans had literally been fantasy booking for over 15 years and intentionally botch it so as to not let WCW look good. That is essentially flipping the bird to the fans. And the fans responded exactly as they should have by leaving in droves. And the WWE has had this "Fuck the fans, we'll do what we want" hostility towards their own audience ever since. What did us fans ever do to you aside from buying your shit and making you rich? The irony is that after winning the war, the WWE became a stale corporate product with no idea of how to book wrestling. In other words it became WCW!
WRONG! They became the Russo era WCW which conveniently put them out of business. WWE has a monopoly on pro wrestling now and this is the result you get. Competition breeds excellence. Monopolies breed laziness and complacency. EA Gaming has done the same thing to sports video games. No competition means "buy our shit no matter how terrible it is, or do nothing at all." Also, sorry AEW fanboys, that's not the one to give the WWE a run for it's money. It's a clique-y internet smark and blog writer spot fest. It's not good. They're just taking what makes wrestling bad nowadays and taking it a bit further. Still a bad product... Vince blew what could've been the absolute biggest story in wrestling(NWO Invasion angle) and BURIED it because of his fucking ego. Ever since then he has had carte blanche to put forth whatever trash he pleases and there's nothing fans can do besides stop watching. I did long ago and I wish others would do the same. It's the only way things will change.
2002 ? Austin was almost done with Wrestling by that point. It's not that far fetched. Everyone was putting Lesnar over at that time. Including Hogan .
@@MrJjburgess11 I totally understand and Austin would of had no problem putting over Brock. Just not in a qualifier for the KOTR on free tv. Austin shouldn't of never been in the KOTR tournament to start with.
Just imagine that the Invasion angle starts with Scott Hall coming in through the crowd interrupting a match and basically doing a carbon copy/variation of his debut promo in WCW. You could drip feed characters in throughout the course of the year, hell you could even debut some WCW guys on WWFs side, their mid carder's who get run over and called traitors by the bigger WCW/NWO guys as they filter in throughout the year. Have some WWF guys switch sides . Debut Hogan at Mania 18 vs Austin to a no contest and build from there to a blow off at 19 (or if you need to kill it off earlier at Survivor Series).
The WWF guys are such MARKS for that "war". Marks is the only word that fits. "Fight for our lives" WHAT? lmao! Once Michael Cole said "there were weeks where I didn't know if I was gonna get a paycheck next week" dude, you graduated from Syracuse, you would have been ok.
Not just that, but here is a globally touring company with how many guys on the roster? Plus staff? And a global HQ in CT? I call BS. There was no way these guys are "fighting for their lives" just because they are #2 on cable TV.
@@DIESEL0759 Yeah, plus the whole "fight for our lives" thing can be easily disputed by pointing out that no one died because WCW went out of business. Everyone found new jobs whether they were in wrestling or not.
I've heard that story Austin didn't care about the loss or have anything against Brock he just wanted it to done right to protect both of them and was getting into it with creative and eventually told them f off and went home and I don't blame him
Austin's time was coming to end. He most likley knew this. That and whatever issues with Debra he was dealing with along with the company BS all took it's toll at the same time. Now Austin had said he had no problem losing to Lesnar in a properly built match that has time and leads to a PPV payoff for everyone. You can disagree with how he handled it (hell even he does). But his logic is spot on.
@Bryan Mack Well the Bret vs Shawn deal was more about pride than anything else. Austin's situation I'm sure involves pride but WWE's plan didn't make sense business wise as well.
@Bryan Mack It's a bit of a different thing, though. Those matches with Bret/Shawn and Shawn/Austin, while ego was involved, had months of build and there was a ton of heat and hype behind them. In this case, they wanted the biggest star in the history of wrestling to lose to the next big thing with NO build, NO promotion and on free television. I'm sure he knew his career was winding down, but he was still a huge star and there was potentially a lot of money to be made with that match if it was built to properly..
C'mon... This is a bullshit excuse. All of the old Stars know that there will eventually come a time when they are closing in on the end and they need to give the new guys a rub. Austin was pretty damn close to that, if not already there. I'm not saying he shouldn't have felt disrespected but his ego did get in the way. He knew that's how the business works but was too caught up in his own legacy to put Brock over.
Very true. A lot of why it was rushed though was because of the drop in attendance/viewership post WMX7 and Rock being gone, then HHH and Benoit being injured, the XFL collapse, etc... it’s like they pushed the panic button.
they cant take criticism ,because they are hypocrites....even when they were promoting the stand up for wwe....all they want is azz kissers to praise wwe for everything and act if they never did anything wrong ...they presented cena this way as well..
Im curious as I haven't watched the DVD. I know the real reason was the lost a lawsuit with world wildlife fund and were forced to change names, but what bullshit reason did they give on the DVD?
Obnoxious with it. If he’s spent more than a couple hours with any of the figures in wrestling he salivates with hatred towards, I would be shocked. It’s like being in WrestleHut2000 in 2007 most of the time.
I stopped watching WWE when Austin turned heel and hugged Vince. That killed every moment for me as a kid that he ever did beefing with Vince. I used to POP every week when Austin would beat up everybody & give out stone cold stunners to refs, Vince any security, camera men.... I loved that as a kid watching that shit every week on Monday. I looked forward to Mondays every week.
I have always thought Montreal played a big part in Austin's approach to business in WWE as he thought if Vince can screw someone as loyal and hardworking as Bret, then he could do it to anyone. I know Austin regrets what he did but I thought he played it right. Loved seeing how pissed McMahon was on WWE confidential which was completely propaganda for him
@@One.Zero.One101 Iirc, Bruce kept tight-lipped Corny’s involvement in the Montreal gig - something Corny kept secret for years and years. Corny prolly feels a little indebted to Baghdad Bruce for that, same with Meltzer.
@@brandonp3455 Somewhat. Bruce being a kiss-ass as he gets older is on par for the course. Implying that the older he gets, he would rather just be neutral and get himself involved to deal with things that he doesn’t find time to deal with. Which is why he seems rather cool and complacent with a lot of people and their ideas. See: Vince Russo and McMahon.
With the exception of Booker and DDP, those guys had contracts that hadn't expired yet from AOL/TimeWarner. It's why you didn't see most of them until a year later. They were basically paid big money to stay home. Booker and DDP actually voided their contracts and took lesser money deals from WWE to appear earlier on television. The way DDP was treated I wonder if he would do the same thing again.
@@TRivera13 That right there is Vince's narrative. If he wanted those guys, he could have afforded them. It's just one way of saying: Hey, I don't want to pay my talent *this amount* of money.
@@fuscinula Not saying he couldn't have afforded them. But it is conceivable to think that a guy might want collect a fat check and stay home for a year. Especially guys with families.
(Bruce) Pritchard as "Brother Love".. "I Love Yew !" - Brother Love; Brian (Last, the co-host of this podcast): the WWE does some revisionist history..
1999 WCW Spring Stampede pay perview was in Tacoma Washington. I was at that event and Booker T was very over with the crowd. I don't think it was a WA thing, it was more of a WWE fan with a Monday Night war winning attitude finally after being spanked for 2 years.
He was over like that in 97/98 too, if you go back and watch some of his matches you'll see most of the crowd "Raising the roof" and then when he yells the crowd pops most of the time
Really gives a great breakdown of why people turned it off after Austin’s heel turn. I was like 12 years old and it broke my heart. Was just never the same and I drifted away from it.
I swear to God, there worst thing about the Austin heel run in 2001 was the f*cking WHAT chant: not only annoying as breaks but giving that to the crowd for years to come to bury people
I mean I'm just saying in general all documentaries aren't that great and well put together. Rise and Fall of WCW was pretty bad and also Randy Orton Evolution of a Predator
Brian Gerwertz ome of the few writers who actually worked with the wrestlers helped Edge & and Christian come up with the 5sec pose,helped The Rock with funny skits and worked with Jericho on something,Matter of fact i think he was on Talk is Jericho podcast if im not mistaken
There was another head writer that started around late 99 when Russo left to early 01 that was the same way, I don't remember his name (Chris something) but he obviously doesn't get enough credit for his contributions around that time especially the year 2000 (wwf's best year imo)
@@JoseMiranda-gj4pq www.imdb.com/name/nm2057866/ - maybe this guy, Chris DeJoseph, who was a writer for Smackdown (blue) brand ? (aka "Big Dick Johnson").. He got whacked by the Sandman's Singapore cane, in the ring.
@@kshinokevin Nah it wasn't him, DeJoseph was the big fat oily guy that DX had with them for a while. This is who I was talking about. bleacherreport.com/articles/1003146-wwe-a-look-at-chris-kreski-the-best-wwe-writer-ever
Bruce Prichard is Vince McMahon's Joseph Goebbels he lies as much Brother Love. I was at the show in Tacoma, their match was awful like ring rust city - botchamania.
I’m surprised Jim didn’t bring up the lie the WWE told about the turning point in the Monday Night War. They tried saying the angle between Stone Cold and Mike Tyson that happened was what shifted the Monday Night War in their favor. In reality, the turning point was when Mankind won the WWF title on pre-tape, it was spoiled on Nitro, and fans changed the channel so they can see Mick Foley win his first world championship. Look up the ratings in you don’t believe me. And the 2 instances were an entire year apart.
Tyson was the turning point. WWF was in deep shit until that point, but after that it started getting momentum and better numbers. WWF was going to overtake WCW with or without Foley winning the title.
Raw won their first night in almost two years on April 13th 1998. They won a total of 26 weeks that year. Two weeks were tied. The build up for wrestlemania with austin tyson, dx was the turning point.
This was when the death of pro wrestling came. When Vince tried to force us his cartoonish characters instead of the "cool" guys. Everylme loves wcw cause it comes off real they cant tell what's real but when kane is throwing flames and undertaker is throwing lightning it's just straight stupid.
alexfithero I’m arguing wrestling doesn’t have to be serious. I mean look at the Attitude Era it was more ridiculous than serious and everyone loved it. Same with the cartoonish superheroes of the 80s. Kids loved that larger than life feel. I mean yeah the territories from the 50s to the 70s were brutal but some angles were beyond campy and I can count more than a handful. I mean keep in mind it’s literally fake fighting so why not have fun with it as long as the audience enjoys it.
Little unkind to Brian Gewirtz there Jim. Edge and Christian are very fond of him, Jericho's always had good things to say about him, seems to have done a pretty good job with things.
I fell in love with pro wrassling as a little kid in the late 90s. Think I gave up on it around 2012 when supercena wouldn’t of put over jesus. Jim Cornette needs to make wrestling great again
WCW ran Spring Stampede 99 at the Tacoma, drawing 17,000 fans. It's considered the last great WCW PPV, and one of the great cards of 1999. Outside of that though, no, WCW didn't have a lengthy or highly successful history in the area.
I wish HBK wanted to be the World Champion during the Ruthless Aggression Era because then we'd of had a World Champion that would legit put on the best match every Raw and every ppv.
It was Austin's idea to turn heel in the first place go watch some Austin shoot interviews. He thought at the time his character was getting old and he wanted to do something new and fresh with his character and Vince allowed it.
Yup, turning Austin heal was the worst move WWE ever did. Probably cost the company 250 million, possibly more, from trying that angle. They really treated Austin terribly. That was when I quit watching.
According to Eric Bischoff, Turner Hone Entertainment was just a home video atm and the guys with guaranteed contacts were paid by Turner corporate and or Time Warner, not THE Also, they didn't sign everyone because those guys were making a fortune not to work, not because the contracts were too expensive. If those guys had wanted to sign, WWF could have afforded them
Turner sold his company to TimeWarner. In 2001 when TimeWarner and AOL (America Online) merged companies, Turner was pushed out and WCW was considered expendable. When the company was sold to WWE, all they acquired was the trademarks and video library. Wrestlers still under contract had to decide if they wanted to void them and wrestle somewhere else or ride them out by staying home.
Right, so add a few hundred k to their contracts and most would've made the choice to work. that's kinda the point... The investment would've paid off in full plus some within a year.
Jim Cornette and Paul Heyman as Paul E. Dangerously VS. Vince Russo and Brian Guritz With Bruce Prichard as the referee in a Hell in a Cell at WrestleMania
I watch an old WCW Saturday night from January 93 last night. Cornette came on and cut promo on Bill Watts. Then Watts came out and they argue. It was great.
they started by pissing on a horse thats been dead for 20 years being WCW then they made it out like WWF to WWE was vinces idea! They got sued by the wildlife people "No no! we got the F out! we were amazing!"
I enjoyed Raw more than smackdown in 2003 ruthless aggression era which is only consists of big show ,kurtangle ,brock lesner ect whlie raw was more entertaining with guys like triple h,booker t,Rvd,Scott Steiner,shawn micheals,shelton Benjamin,kane,orton,batista and ofcourse Goldberg for a breif period
15 minutes in, and I think this should be called "Jim Cornette shoots on Invasion Angle and WWE's summary of Monday Night War." Not that I'm complaining,
I remember a documentary they did on the various Wrestlemanias. They seemed to imply Andre was the champ and put Hogan over at WM III, then Andre just rolled over and died. No mention of him screwing over Hogan for the title later, or why the title was put up in a tournament at WM IV. Andre was still there until WM VI, and wouldn't die until 1993, nearly six years after WM III.
Just watched the first episode and had to listen to this to wash the bullshit outta my head. Can't believe they covered the invasion and Smackdown overtaking Raw in the ratings, without mentioning ECW or the work Paul Heyman did as head of creative once.
Thing is Paul took the best WRESTLERS of that time, Eddie, benoit, angle, edge, mysterio and also had Brock and taker and made their matches more about athletic competition and simple alpha male "im better than you" stories. Meanwhile on raw, hhh was fighting kane over a dead girlfriend which involved humping a fake corpse in a casket, hot lesbian action, and stuff of that nature.
No, Vince still hated Jeff Jarret so his father and him would likely have still started their wrestling company, the first few years would have been much more dependent on the newer indie talent and not WCW and WWE alumni but it still would have existed in some form.
TNA would of existed regardless. I don't know how you came to that conclusion but Jeff Jarret has said that TNA came into existed because WWF thought that buying WCW means they would get WCW fans. What Vince didn't know is that a lot of WCW fans left out of loyalty and didn't care for WWF. So Jeff Jarrett took the opportunity to create TNA in hopes of finding WCW's lost fans and get them to boost TNA in the hopes of having a 2nd company directly compete with WWF. Invasion has nothing to do with that at all.
I enjoy Jim’s content but that stars don’t worry about their spot line is wild. There have been countless stories of wrestlers keeping other guys down to maintain the status quo like HHH and Hogan.
Ruthless Aggression is a false name for this era. There was nothing ruthless or aggressive about it.. the only thing that was, is how WWE ruthlessly and aggresively shoved Cena down our throats even tho we were vomiting. And how ruthless and aggressive they were in killing ECW.
I completely agree with Cornette. Flair, Sting and Goldberg should have been the ones leading the charge in the invasion and probably Bischoff too. I think Stephanie and Shane could've still been involved somehow. Bischoff could have brought in the NWO later on as WCW's ultimate weapon, but then double cross WCW and afterwards double cross Vince too so eventually the invaders were not WCW but the NWO. Eventually Flair would still get half the company, they would do the brand split and the draft, then Flair would sell his half to Vince and he'd appoint GMs, which should be Bischoff and Heyman from the first moment, no Stephanie for a while. About WWF becoming WWE, I know the reason and I guess the E is because it's the way Vince has always conceived his company and the future of the industry, but I wish they had taken a different route and if they couldn't use WWF perhaps they could have gone back to the beginning and use the old name World Wide Wrestling Federation or even Capital Wrestling like Vince's grandfather.
I've always said that Booker T and DDP could've been the leaders of the InVasion with some of the young guys with a mysterious financial backer to be revealed later (I always said Ted DiBiase would've been awesome here.) The attitude they come in with is *WE* were the *REAL WCW!!!* Have them blame everyone from Ted Turner to Vince to Hogan and Bischoff for the failure. So now they're here to fuck everything up.
@@TRivera13 the problem is that DDP and Booker T weren't big enough stars. Booker won I think 3 of his 5 WCW titles in the last few weeks of Nitro and I think even the 1st one was in 2000, when WCW was a freaking mess. Guys like Flair, Sting, Goldberg, the Steiners, Luger and the NWO were a lot more significant than DDP or Booker. Imagine if the invasion had gone the other way around snd WWF invaded WCW without Stone Cold, Rock, Undertaker, Triple H, Mick Foley or Kane.
@@anxofernandez3344 Yeah I know they weren't the big stars. But they were pure WCW unlike a majority of the bigger stars. It's something to build on. They could even mention that the reason they weren't bigger stars is because of the old guys who wouldn't get out if the way. Booker and DDP could talk well enough to sell this scenario. Give it time let it build and let's see what sticks.
In reality: Vince was contacted by them way the hell back in the 80's when he dropped the "wide" w from the name. He said they were just a US company, and wouldn't use the name outside the states. Vince registering wwf.com is what violated their agreement, since websites are very much global.
I will say that I very much enjoy Jim giving Paul Heyman is credit. He has fucked up a lot and been terrible in certain areas but Paul has had some great ideas and great management in the past
This reminds me of the quote from the last samurai, katsumoto and allgren were talking about Custer. Katsumoto said Custer was a good general because he and his troops fought the Indians Allgren said wasn't a good general, he was a murderer, Vince is like Custer, he fell in love with his own legend and he's troopers died for it. That's a reality check.
i think the reason why austin left and didn't negotiate with vince is because he was afraid brock would go out there and shoot on him, it's supposed to be a squash on live tv, so even if vince said have a match with a mid carder or do a promo on brock, austin had to be thinking vince was going to backstab him in some way
I'm tired of people saying Austin is the greatest. He's not. Hogan was the biggest star the business ever had. You don't have to like Hogan, Corny doesn't have to like Hogan, but there never will be a bigger star in wrestling than Hulk Hogan. Austin was big, but even he wasn't the biggest star of the Attitude Era. That was the "Mr. McMahon" character. So here's the thing, Hulk Hogan is the biggest star and there will never be a bigger star ever. That's not opinion, it's a fact. Hogan was never my favorite wrestler, but I know when to give credit. Boo me, hate me all you want, but you know I'm right.
I agree that Hogan is the biggest star ever, but as someone who was 10 and under during the hulkamania era and in jr high/high school during Austin's beer drinking renegade era and even remembered him previously being Stunning Steve Austin... Austin's wholehearted portrayal of the stone cold character was more fun to suspend disbelief and buy into than Hogan or even Flair as great as they are as well imo. Jimmy isnt wrong in saying he was the one guy the fans could believe in as perhaps giving a shoot portrayal of who they are in their heart of hearts. The best ever anti-hero gimmic
THANK YOU!!! By selective measures it was the most popular and successful. It always chaps my ass when Attitude Era fans talk about "Stone Cold is the biggest star in wrestling history" and site merch sales and ratings as "proof" of their claim. He wasn't and my simple example of anecdotal evidence proves my point because I'm positive anyone older than 30 years old will tell you the same type of thing. My Grandmother lived in the middle of the woods in Minnesota, never watched WWF or wrestling in general, and didn't even own a TV but she could tell you who Hulk Hogan was and easily identify him from a picture. By comparison, my Mother, who lived in Phoenix, AZ which sometimes even hosted RAW a couple of times a year with cable television that I often watched both WCW and WWF on couldn't pick Stone Cold out of a line up of him, HBK, HHH, The Rock, and Mankind. An argument could actually be made that Stone Cold wasn't even "the Man" of his own era for God's sake!!! THAT is a true measure of fame. So while inflated numbers due to currency inflation and accessibility lends to this claim, actual evidence that most could probably show you doesn't bear it out.
The WWE was going to purchase WCW and absorb all the contracts for $80 million dollars but TNN wouldn’t let them produce a show on TNT. This is a fact.Viacom had exclusive rights to WWE programming and they refused to have a WCW show. The WWE tried to explain to them how this would help their ratings. So,without TV, the WWE was supposed to absorb contracts of the top WCW wrestlers that were considered ridiculous at the time? The WWE messed up, no question, but the blame belongs to Viacom.
Still think something was up with the sell of wcw and how cheap vince brought it for when there were way more better offers on the table sum executives who vince has relationships with got paid good money to make sure vince got the deal surprised no one looked into it
I mean, the story behind it was that Jamie Kellner was put in charge of TNT, he hated pro wrestling and wanted it off air as soon as possible and when Bischoff and his group needed two weeks to get the cash to buy WCW from him, he got an offer from McMahon for $1m. So he took that to rid himself of pro wrestling ASAP and rebranded as Turner Classic Movies.
Bischoff cancelled his bid when tbs pulled the tv distribution aspect out of the deal. Eric needed tv for his business plan to work. And he didn't think he'd be able to find a distribution deal with another network in time to relaunch the brand. After that no one with real money was interested in acquiring the company. Vince bought it for cheap because to tbs. He was just buying the video library and the contract of the lower tier wrestlers. Ultimately TBS didn't want wrasslin' on their program. And just wanted to get rid of it fast.
Jim cornette is a legend. Wcw going out was inevitable... The end of the territories was the end of "wrestling". It can never be the same again. Kayfabe?! It will always be an "entertaining TV show" as its been for years now. 80s wrestling please come back. I miss you.
I’m two years late, but I agree with your assessment. It would be like if magicians across the board ended their shows by showing the audience how every trick and illusion they just saw was done. As an old school fan, it drives me right up the wall to hear them talking so openly about the inner workings of the business.
1) buy out all the wcw contracts 2) at the end of the 2002 royal rumble match when it's just triple nose and kurt angle have the wcw stars invade and destroy them making the match a no contest 3) at no way out have a triple threat match with angle, triple nose and jericho with triple nose winning, wcw invades again decimating all three of them, the wwe mid carders come out to save them but get destroyed until kane, the undertaker, stone cold and the rock come out together, they stand on the ramp while the wcw guys hold their ground in the ring before the ppv fades to black while jr has a thunderous orgasm promoting raw the next night 4) at wrestlemania it's hogan vs austin, sting vs undertaker, the rock vs goldberg, flair vs angle, scott hall vs triple h, diesel vs kane 5) wwe can afford the wcw contracts and in the long run everyone in the company will be making unheard of money for the next 2 years making all kinds of dream matches
BINGO!!! I get so sick of hearing "well they were getting paid to stay home so that's what they did." NO YOU MORONS!!! What you should've said "Vince cheaped out because he easily could've lured them away from home with a bit more cash and whatever he invested would've been made back 10 fold within a year because the product they would be putting forth would've been legendary." I don't get this 50/50 ass kissing but still shitting on McMahon from WWE fans. He ROYALLY screwed up that entire situation and pretty much ruined pro wrestling because of it. That's on him and his ego. He certainly could've afforded it and lacked the apparent foresight to know that some of those dream match-ups were a license to print money. Fans would've been throwing their wallets at the product with no hesitation.
@@kennyhouser3467 that's why wcw was able to have their initial success, they gave us dream matches on nitro and pay per view on a regular basis, but maybe vince looked at the problems he had booking shawn michaels and bret hart and thought about the nightmare it would be trying to make the wcw guys look strong while also keeping his own talent from looking like jobbers or weak in any way
I honestly can't watch the WWE Ruthless Aggression Era documentary if they won't feature : 1. Anything Chris Benoit made 2. Stone Cold took his ball and left home in 2002 3. True story behind WWF changed to WWE 4. WWE Divas Search 5. Zach Gowen 6. All of the stuff on Eddie's death 7. Undertaker's Big Evil gimmick 8. The revival of ECW
During the 90s and into early 2000s I was a huge wrestling fan. I never missed a Monday night or pay per view for years. And I will agree that it’s ridiculous to think I wasn’t aware of who “the enemies” are. I was a wwe/wwf junkie but that doesn’t mean I didn’t know the wcw roster. I was well aware of Them and even had theoretical dream matches I woulda loved to see. (Goldberg & Austin) to say the least. All in all they fucked up the invasion / merger big time. As a former fan, that was the beginning of the end for my ‘fandom’. It just went down hill. I haven’t watched a single episode of wwe since 08 ish.
The problem is that without Stone Cold being WRITTEN to beat Goldberg, which absolutely would've happened, it wasn't believable. Excellent character but complete and utter Hollywood and bright lights quality. He would've been crying about having to put Goldberg over just like he did with Brock when BOTH of them could legitimately wreck his ass in a shoot. That's part of the problem.
To those shitting on the invasion; Yes it sucked, but it does make sense to not pay all those massive contracts to guys who would much rather sit on their ass and make huge money to do less than nothing
after the rock first left in 2001 the ratings went down for the first time ,then when he returned later that year he was in to many tag team matches...and not pushed as a big deal....
@@joere-uploader5766 The revisionist history is from people like you who downplay eddie and the others. No one was ever gonna follow austin after, whatever peaks must eventually come down but those guys kept it as soft a landing as possible and gave better matches than what we saw in the AE
Going back and rewatching the matches from that time, if you're anything like me, the first thing you'll notice is how varied the finishes are and how they could still come out of nowhere. Of course, it's a product of the television first mentality, and there's something to be said for a crisp, beautiful presentation, but it's impossible to maintain interest in anything when a guy has to do "their finish" to win. That's why people fuckin hated Cena so much, because that's where you started to see it most plainly, but just about any match in the last 10 years, if you knew the result before hand any idiot in the crowd could've told you the finish and known what to look for. Smart fan is a very relative term and a sliding scale, it doesn't take a wrestling savant to predict the finish of a John Cena match down to the moves and timing, you know Aj Styles will hit the Phenomenal Forearm and Balor will hit the Coup de Grace, so no matter how hard you try to get someone invested in the buildup, you'll never hold them through the closing sequence. Legitimately, the last time people didn't see the ending of a WWE match coming was WrestleMania 30, Brock vs. Taker, because no one believed Brock would win even when it was as obvious as the day is long, and in the old days there was that level of uncertainty in every finish cause anyone on the card could win in more than one specific way. I remember going back and watching one of Edge's early matches after binging a lot of modern stuff that was by just about any metric better in the ring than this random tv match, and just being floored at the end because I couldn't see it coming. Edge didn't hit his big move, there were no obvious camera cuts that told you get excited, his opponent made a mistake, Edge capitalized, and he made the pin and the bell rang before me or anyone in the building could register what happened. And that is so valuable, especially used well in early matches. If you can get involved and cheer along with the finish of the first three matches on any card, how can any crowd have the energy to suspend their disbelief for the main event
@@nathantturnert1631 Oh, that's funny. "Not going to read all that, man." is a really elegant way to confirm you're ignorant and belligerent. If you can't even be bothered to read a RUclips comment, don't presume to know you understand 60 years of a sports history
@@nathantturnert1631 Oh. How original. Why would I respond to anything you have to say with respect? You're clearly 10 years old or under, and not my child, so why on Earth would I respect you?
Not really , cause we got RA after it , it was just a really shitty storyline with some good parts in them , plus that whole angle better than the trash we've gotten the past decade so theirs that .
The invasion angle did not kill wrestling because wrestling was already dead. It died with the territories. The attitude era was big because of the Rock and Steve Austin but without those two guys everything just seemed stupid. Wrestling has been gone for a long time and it will never come back. I gave up on it when WCW became nothing more than the N.W.O was just beating down someone every single show. The truth is if you are not old enough to remember the 70s and 80s then you missed all the good stuff
Before watching the first episode, I just knew they were going to gloss over the reason why they changed WWF to WWE and no shock, they totally did. And it was probably the most bullshit cover-up reason ever.
Well after this there wernt many amazing matches of the calibre. and his run post heel turn while entertaining doesn't look good in retrospect. He was a sneaky heel who was a bad guy from april 2001 to December 2001, His summerslam and unforgiven ppvs against angle were amazing but he lost both of those, he lost to jericho at no way out, he lost the everything on the line survivor series match, he lost to taker at backlash, beat hall at mania in an average match. His final match against rock at wm 19 while not as great as 17 was still good but again.... he lost.
Totally agree with Cornette on Invasion angle, even just Sting and Goldberg would have made it an awesome event. Taker v Sting at Mania would have been a dream match for me back then
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
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As Paul Heyman once said; "WCW was the NWO, WCW was Sting, WCW was Goldberg. This felt like a bad episode of Thunder".
WCW going out of business was one of the worst things to ever happen in wrestling
D man X competition breeds entertainment
After watching it. No it was good for wrestling
That is such an overrated statement WCW was TERRIBLE since Early '98
*THE worst thing to happen (outside of a death)
One new plane killed them. As a 14 year old seeing the lights and story line of the wwf it was very entertaining compared to our local on the matt wrestling show that was more wrestling less story line
Every time I think of this era I immediately think of how great Eddie was in retrospect
2001 could've been the best year in wrestling ever, just imagine if was dx vs NWO, Goldberg vs Austin, Sting vs undertaker, rock vs flair. Aw man.
I disagree with the rock vs flair. Flair was 90. But I've always hated flair too.
Keep Rock and Hogan together. They were great together.
@@johnv6806 I'd want to see rick cheat and win, or bring in an old face.
@@johnv6806 Coming out in his bright blue? You don't think those two couldnt have a good angle? Not even a comedic one about their big egos?
Rock vs DDP should of happened IRL
Sounds like Bruce spent the whole documentary being a stooge just like how he's spent his whole life being one.
@@sergf3624 English and 2 other languages but unfortunately not much of any of them when the whisky kicks in. Edited my comment to make sense, the point remains the same ;)
Sounds like you didnt watch the documentary and took Corny's word for it like a stooge
@@weaselg-dx5ys I didn't watch the documentary, and you clearly don't know what a stooge is.
@@weaselg-dx5ys You remember the time Bruce Prichard denied forcing Daffney to wrestle with a concussion or she won't be booked in future, then sent her threatening emails, which he later denied until she provided them as evidence when she sued TNA for damages and lost earnings, right?
I find it funny and scary that in 2020 we live in a reality where thanks to his podcast people actually believe Bruce's shill BS even though he is a notorious Vince brown noser going back DECADES!
I hated Cornette when I was a kid watching wrestiling. I love the man after becoming an adult and looking into the behind the scenes of wrestling. To me that means he did his job well. Dig those southern analogies Jimmy!
"We dont want to upset the salary structure" meanwhile they were wasting how much money on the dumb XFL idea?
True
They blew it twice the xfl failed again
But that's DIFFERENT...that's a WWE expense, not a wrestler expense!
As well as WWF New York lol
With all that money wasted on the XFL, he could've covered the cost of insurance for everybody on the roster.
The one thing I love about Dark Side of the Ring is you get to see the WWE archive footage without all the WWE-produced horseshit. I watched the WWE documentary on WrestleMania a while back and all the guys felt like they were being spoon fed these company lines and catchphrases over and over instead of speaking candidly about their memories.
And in retrospect, WWE threw away so much damn money after the other two companies folded and they began transitioning into that Ruthless Agression Era. Awful misuse of WCW and their bigger stars when they jumped, fumbling around with Austin, Vince hugging Bischoff. The lack of competition really brought out the arrogance in Vince and led to so much proverbial money burning in that time.
Wwe basically ended up becoming wcw
your right esp ,when they bury every other company and make it seems if they were stupid and didn't know how to run a pro wrestling company...when in fact they did...
@@jackstraw4222 wcw had absolutely no idea how to run a company. They literally lost the business because of that. Viewership sunk about as fast as the titanic and stayed there. Their contracts were ridiculous and would never be sustainable. Eventually that black hole of money loss, was put out of its misery by the network executives
How Corny describe the Austin Heel turn is exactly how i feel back in the day. This was the turning point...
As they say
The winners write the history books
"Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away."
Elvis Presley
History = His story
It's their own history though. It's not about the Monday Night wars, it's about an all-WWE era.
Except in WWII and the US Civil War. The losers had their hand in both those historiographies.
@Shane Gallagher What have the Romans ever done for us? Romanes Eunt Domus.
Booker T went from a rising top star in WCW to comedy mid card in wwe
But in the end he made a great living for 20+ years dealing with it. I do agree hate how they treated him
@ShadowAngel he was able to bring a good level of entertainment though skin color aside. Was he a full time champion of course not but filled the role perfectly
so did Dusty,
so did DDP,
so did Goldberg wearing a gold Goldust wig...
@ShadowAngel can't say the same about king bookah.
@ShadowAngel you sure the ppv buy rate didn't go down because Hogan was stripped of the world title and it was given to Jeff Jarrett that could be a way bigger reason people turned away especially after russo was talking shit about Hogan.
Wow Jim actually mentioned Christian. I'm surprised, nobody seems to acknowledge a wrestler who has won more championships than 95% of wrestlers.
He is so criminally underated and understated its untrue. He should and could have been a top guy and world champion in 2004-05 when he was over as fuck, but Vince never saw him as a main event guy.
FreedomIsSlavery you talking about when he was with tomko? Or before that?
One more match!
The most underappreciated guy of the era. They misused him
@@freedomisslavery6840 Hell yes you're correct. I've thought that for years. He was right on the cusp in 04/05 and should have been elevated. One of the best natural heels of the whole era. Still can't believe Vince fucked that up. Coulda had a top weasel heel for years.
One thing i’ve grown to really respect about Steve Austin is that yes he had his political moments BUT he could always back it up with wrestling logic. Austin knew once Brock beat him,there would never be a major payoff to it. Not to mention Austin had carried the company to a level it would have never made it to and here they are figuring Hulk Hogan into modern storylines. Vince expects loyalty from the Boys but he does not reciprocate that loyalty. Just like how Hogan didnt have to put Bret over then Shawn didn’t have to either. Vince will use a guy up then when he’s done with you,creatively you’re left for dead. Austin didnt appreciate being fed Scott Hall at WM18 either.
@akay akbar There was a build up to The Rock vs Brock. Stone Cold and Brock had never even crossed paths when they tried to do that match.
@akay akbar yeah, The Rock did what was best for talent and put Brock over. The rock was on his way out the door to Hollywood too so that also played a factor in a one off match between The Rock and Brock. But it had a build to it and wasn't just a stupid KOR qualifying match that came out of nowhere. Dont get me wrong, I was upset when Steve no showed for the Brock match. Hell, they advertised that match on Raw and I was super excited to see it cause I knew these guys never crossed paths before and it was a big deal. Vince came out and called Steve a coward for walking and actually made me feel like he turned his back on his fans for no showing that night. I thought it was a work but it was a shoot straight from the hip.
the defense for that can't even remember who said it 3-4 years later when it happened at Mania
I like Steve Austin but word is he tried to have the Rock Buried once upon a time..
@@almightyzordan911 Vince shot on Steve that night.. completely buried him..
How to torpedo your viewership in less than a year:
1. Take the biggest babyface of all time and turn him heel.
2. Take the greatest dream feud of all time that wrestling fans had literally been fantasy booking for over 15 years and intentionally botch it so as to not let WCW look good.
That is essentially flipping the bird to the fans. And the fans responded exactly as they should have by leaving in droves. And the WWE has had this "Fuck the fans, we'll do what we want" hostility towards their own audience ever since. What did us fans ever do to you aside from buying your shit and making you rich? The irony is that after winning the war, the WWE became a stale corporate product with no idea of how to book wrestling. In other words it became WCW!
WRONG! They became the Russo era WCW which conveniently put them out of business. WWE has a monopoly on pro wrestling now and this is the result you get. Competition breeds excellence. Monopolies breed laziness and complacency. EA Gaming has done the same thing to sports video games. No competition means "buy our shit no matter how terrible it is, or do nothing at all." Also, sorry AEW fanboys, that's not the one to give the WWE a run for it's money. It's a clique-y internet smark and blog writer spot fest. It's not good. They're just taking what makes wrestling bad nowadays and taking it a bit further. Still a bad product... Vince blew what could've been the absolute biggest story in wrestling(NWO Invasion angle) and BURIED it because of his fucking ego. Ever since then he has had carte blanche to put forth whatever trash he pleases and there's nothing fans can do besides stop watching. I did long ago and I wish others would do the same. It's the only way things will change.
Dont forget make the Invasion angle all about the Mcmahons and not the wrestlers from rival companies.
Heel turn was Austin’s idea. He insisted according to the man himself
@@iLLBiLLsRoastBeats BUT he also says he shouldn't have done it. So.even HE realized it was crap and he realized it AT WMX7
Steve Austin never should of been in a KOTR qualifying match at that point in his career anyway.
2002 ? Austin was almost done with Wrestling by that point. It's not that far fetched. Everyone was putting Lesnar over at that time. Including Hogan .
@@MrJjburgess11 I totally understand and Austin would of had no problem putting over Brock. Just not in a qualifier for the KOTR on free tv. Austin shouldn't of never been in the KOTR tournament to start with.
@@brandonmckelvey4819 I do agree that they definitely should of had some type of build to the match at least.
@@MrJjburgess11 for sure that could of been money.
Why
Just imagine that the Invasion angle starts with Scott Hall coming in through the crowd interrupting a match and basically doing a carbon copy/variation of his debut promo in WCW. You could drip feed characters in throughout the course of the year, hell you could even debut some WCW guys on WWFs side, their mid carder's who get run over and called traitors by the bigger WCW/NWO guys as they filter in throughout the year. Have some WWF guys switch sides . Debut Hogan at Mania 18 vs Austin to a no contest and build from there to a blow off at 19 (or if you need to kill it off earlier at Survivor Series).
I love this idea....it would have saved us from a watered-down Invasion ppv.
Austin would never agree to that
@@sheepdavis Hogan never would have either, brother. Unless he was winning the payoff, brother.
The WWF guys are such MARKS for that "war". Marks is the only word that fits. "Fight for our lives" WHAT? lmao! Once Michael Cole said "there were weeks where I didn't know if I was gonna get a paycheck next week" dude, you graduated from Syracuse, you would have been ok.
Not just that, but here is a globally touring company with how many guys on the roster? Plus staff? And a global HQ in CT? I call BS. There was no way these guys are "fighting for their lives" just because they are #2 on cable TV.
It's the narrative Vince pushes.
Lmao someone said once if you asked Ted Turner about McMahon or the Monday night wars he would say “Vince who??” Lol truly a war in his own mind
Roddy Piper used to say "it wasn't a 'war' at all..."
@@DIESEL0759 Yeah, plus the whole "fight for our lives" thing can be easily disputed by pointing out that no one died because WCW went out of business. Everyone found new jobs whether they were in wrestling or not.
Jim forget Flair had been in the WWF once already from '91-'93, winning the WWF title twice in '92?
Caught that too. Granted Flair was very synonymous with WCW along with guys like Goldberg and Sting so I get what he was going for
I've heard that story Austin didn't care about the loss or have anything against Brock he just wanted it to done right to protect both of them and was getting into it with creative and eventually told them f off and went home and I don't blame him
@I am Supernaut I don't doubt that he felt disrespected he definitely wasn't being booked good at that time
Austin's time was coming to end. He most likley knew this. That and whatever issues with Debra he was dealing with along with the company BS all took it's toll at the same time.
Now Austin had said he had no problem losing to Lesnar in a properly built match that has time and leads to a PPV payoff for everyone.
You can disagree with how he handled it (hell even he does). But his logic is spot on.
@Bryan Mack Well the Bret vs Shawn deal was more about pride than anything else. Austin's situation I'm sure involves pride but WWE's plan didn't make sense business wise as well.
@Bryan Mack It's a bit of a different thing, though. Those matches with Bret/Shawn and Shawn/Austin, while ego was involved, had months of build and there was a ton of heat and hype behind them. In this case, they wanted the biggest star in the history of wrestling to lose to the next big thing with NO build, NO promotion and on free television. I'm sure he knew his career was winding down, but he was still a huge star and there was potentially a lot of money to be made with that match if it was built to properly..
C'mon... This is a bullshit excuse. All of the old Stars know that there will eventually come a time when they are closing in on the end and they need to give the new guys a rub. Austin was pretty damn close to that, if not already there. I'm not saying he shouldn't have felt disrespected but his ego did get in the way. He knew that's how the business works but was too caught up in his own legacy to put Brock over.
If they had only waited a year for The Invasion Angle.
Very true. A lot of why it was rushed though was because of the drop in attendance/viewership post WMX7 and Rock being gone, then HHH and Benoit being injured, the XFL collapse, etc... it’s like they pushed the panic button.
I knew there was some BS inserted into this doc when they wouldn't give the real reason WWF had to change their name to WWE
World Wildlife Fund sued the World Wrestling Federation over the WWF name.
they cant take criticism ,because they are hypocrites....even when they were promoting the stand up for wwe....all they want is azz kissers to praise wwe for everything and act if they never did anything wrong ...they presented cena this way as well..
Im curious as I haven't watched the DVD. I know the real reason was the lost a lawsuit with world wildlife fund and were forced to change names, but what bullshit reason did they give on the DVD?
@@HeywoodJablowme7 because Vince wanted to get the"Attitude" out of the company and take the company into a new direction lol
One day we're going to have to get Brian to tell us how he really feels about Bruce
yeah he stays ducking that Bruce beef
Obnoxious with it. If he’s spent more than a couple hours with any of the figures in wrestling he salivates with hatred towards, I would be shocked. It’s like being in WrestleHut2000 in 2007 most of the time.
Listening to this while we're entering the Social Distancing Era.
Perfect comment
Big evil agenda era
Social distancing = people too chickenshit to be around eachother
"Event 201"
@@_Boobear_ this comment did not age well
Love that Jim still refers to Hayman as “Paul E.” circa 1991 WCW era.
I stopped watching WWE when Austin turned heel and hugged Vince. That killed every moment for me as a kid that he ever did beefing with Vince. I used to POP every week when Austin would beat up everybody & give out stone cold stunners to refs, Vince any security, camera men.... I loved that as a kid watching that shit every week on Monday. I looked forward to Mondays every week.
They should of had buff and Booker come out of a box, you are instantly OVER when you come out of a box 😂😂😂.
I have always thought Montreal played a big part in Austin's approach to business in WWE as he thought if Vince can screw someone as loyal and hardworking as Bret, then he could do it to anyone.
I know Austin regrets what he did but I thought he played it right. Loved seeing how pissed McMahon was on WWE confidential which was completely propaganda for him
"It could've, but it wasn't, so it didn't."
What I hate more about that line is the fact that it actually made sense in context
LOL! at Bryan calling Bruce "Baghdad Bob"
@@One.Zero.One101 Iirc, Bruce kept tight-lipped Corny’s involvement in the Montreal gig - something Corny kept secret for years and years. Corny prolly feels a little indebted to Baghdad Bruce for that, same with Meltzer.
@@brandonp3455 Somewhat. Bruce being a kiss-ass as he gets older is on par for the course. Implying that the older he gets, he would rather just be neutral and get himself involved to deal with things that he doesn’t find time to deal with. Which is why he seems rather cool and complacent with a lot of people and their ideas. See: Vince Russo and McMahon.
@@brandonp3455bruce never knew
The invasion could have been so good! Imagine Goldberg, Steiner, Sting, Flair, DDP, Booker T and Mysterio all making debuts during mania 17
And all getting buried? Would've been a nightmare.
X7 would have no longer been my fav mania. I'm glad it did happen.
With the exception of Booker and DDP, those guys had contracts that hadn't expired yet from AOL/TimeWarner. It's why you didn't see most of them until a year later. They were basically paid big money to stay home. Booker and DDP actually voided their contracts and took lesser money deals from WWE to appear earlier on television. The way DDP was treated I wonder if he would do the same thing again.
@@TRivera13 That right there is Vince's narrative. If he wanted those guys, he could have afforded them. It's just one way of saying: Hey, I don't want to pay my talent *this amount* of money.
@@fuscinula Not saying he couldn't have afforded them. But it is conceivable to think that a guy might want collect a fat check and stay home for a year. Especially guys with families.
If Brett Shows up and goes to war w/the Nwo, has Macho, Sting w/him, that shit is still poping today. Vince may be gone even.
Bruce will defend anything McMahon does
benzion888 he’s a McMahon lifer there’s a reason he kisses up to him
(Bruce) Pritchard as "Brother Love".. "I Love Yew !" - Brother Love; Brian (Last, the co-host of this podcast): the WWE does some revisionist history..
He's even claimed that WWE doesn't bury anyone lol
As he should...
Brian does that with Jim and Meltzer. What's the difference?
Jim argues very well, but he needs to remember Ric Flair was in the WWE previously in the early 90s; he even won the championship.
Flair was still a big star and household name in 2001.
I feel vince shouldve kept wcw running kept the monday night wars going and had shane or even paul be in charge of wcw
Every company makes a documentary about itself, for itself 🤗
1999 WCW Spring Stampede pay perview was in Tacoma Washington. I was at that event and Booker T was very over with the crowd. I don't think it was a WA thing, it was more of a WWE fan with a Monday Night war winning attitude finally after being spanked for 2 years.
He was over like that in 97/98 too, if you go back and watch some of his matches you'll see most of the crowd "Raising the roof" and then when he yells the crowd pops most of the time
Really gives a great breakdown of why people turned it off after Austin’s heel turn. I was like 12 years old and it broke my heart. Was just never the same and I drifted away from it.
Same here man. I was about to turn 8. And I was done watching regularly by 03. Watched occasionally until Eddie died then I gave up
I swear to God, there worst thing about the Austin heel run in 2001 was the f*cking WHAT chant: not only annoying as breaks but giving that to the crowd for years to come to bury people
We listen to this so we dont have to watch the actual doc lol.
@Ze TheGame yeah I like alot of Docs they release I really liked CM Punk's, this one however I did not wanna watch for the same reasons as you
Ehh some documentaries aren't really that good
@@FirstLast-yh7gj depends on the subject and whom it's about. Like I said about CM Punk, I thought that was a good one.
I mean I'm just saying in general all documentaries aren't that great and well put together. Rise and Fall of WCW was pretty bad and also Randy Orton Evolution of a Predator
@@nickverbus1494 The CM Punk one was definitely the best one they produced because of how honest it was
Brian Gerwertz ome of the few writers who actually worked with the wrestlers helped Edge & and Christian come up with the 5sec pose,helped The Rock with funny skits and worked with Jericho on something,Matter of fact i think he was on Talk is Jericho podcast if im not mistaken
whatculture.com/wwe/veteran-wwe-writer-now-working-for-the-rock
There was another head writer that started around late 99 when Russo left to early 01 that was the same way, I don't remember his name (Chris something) but he obviously doesn't get enough credit for his contributions around that time especially the year 2000 (wwf's best year imo)
@@JoseMiranda-gj4pq www.imdb.com/name/nm2057866/ - maybe this guy, Chris DeJoseph, who was a writer for Smackdown (blue) brand ? (aka "Big Dick Johnson").. He got whacked by the Sandman's Singapore cane, in the ring.
@@kshinokevin Nah it wasn't him, DeJoseph was the big fat oily guy that DX had with them for a while. This is who I was talking about. bleacherreport.com/articles/1003146-wwe-a-look-at-chris-kreski-the-best-wwe-writer-ever
Jose Miranda I believe he is dead now, RIP
Bruce Prichard is Vince McMahon's Joseph Goebbels he lies as much Brother Love. I was at the show in Tacoma, their match was awful like ring rust city - botchamania.
I’m surprised Jim didn’t bring up the lie the WWE told about the turning point in the Monday Night War. They tried saying the angle between Stone Cold and Mike Tyson that happened was what shifted the Monday Night War in their favor. In reality, the turning point was when Mankind won the WWF title on pre-tape, it was spoiled on Nitro, and fans changed the channel so they can see Mick Foley win his first world championship. Look up the ratings in you don’t believe me. And the 2 instances were an entire year apart.
Tyson was the turning point. WWF was in deep shit until that point, but after that it started getting momentum and better numbers. WWF was going to overtake WCW with or without Foley winning the title.
Raw won their first night in almost two years on April 13th 1998. They won a total of 26 weeks that year. Two weeks were tied. The build up for wrestlemania with austin tyson, dx was the turning point.
“The people didn’t believe in the Rock, they just liked to watch him” so glad someone finally said it
That's always been obvious, I thought. The biggest example is when they booed him out of the building in Toronto in favor of Hogan.
I dont believe that to be true at all.
Yet he still became the greatest in sports and entertainment, that says more about the "fans" then anything
I’m not the biggest Brian fan, but I love how he keeps rightfully calling JBL a miscarder
This was when the death of pro wrestling came. When Vince tried to force us his cartoonish characters instead of the "cool" guys. Everylme loves wcw cause it comes off real they cant tell what's real but when kane is throwing flames and undertaker is throwing lightning it's just straight stupid.
alexfithero yet where is WCW and what show had the most ratings lol
@@plshelpmeawkdough yet PRO WRESTLING IS DEAD. How can you be innovative creative when you always have a god damn communist in control
alexfithero imma go ahead
It could be deader than Fred Durst’s career and I still wouldn’t care.
I dont even know what your arguing.
alexfithero I’m arguing wrestling doesn’t have to be serious. I mean look at the Attitude Era it was more ridiculous than serious and everyone loved it. Same with the cartoonish superheroes of the 80s. Kids loved that larger than life feel. I mean yeah the territories from the 50s to the 70s were brutal but some angles were beyond campy and I can count more than a handful. I mean keep in mind it’s literally fake fighting so why not have fun with it as long as the audience enjoys it.
Bruce has defended the Red fucking Rooster for god's sake. His credibility for defending shit is basically zero.
Little unkind to Brian Gewirtz there Jim. Edge and Christian are very fond of him, Jericho's always had good things to say about him, seems to have done a pretty good job with things.
I fell in love with pro wrassling as a little kid in the late 90s. Think I gave up on it around 2012 when supercena wouldn’t of put over jesus. Jim Cornette needs to make wrestling great again
WCW ran Spring Stampede 99 at the Tacoma, drawing 17,000 fans. It's considered the last great WCW PPV, and one of the great cards of 1999. Outside of that though, no, WCW didn't have a lengthy or highly successful history in the area.
I could not possibly agree more with the views put forth on this video. It just feels good hearing someone else saying it, instead of just in my head.
The worst parts are when the current superstars give their takes
*wrestlers
@@akeminakajima449 yes I get it
i liked that because it gave a perspective of people watching at that time
Watching a wwe documentary made by wwe is like that obama meme where he gives himself the medal
I wish HBK wanted to be the World Champion during the Ruthless Aggression Era because then we'd of had a World Champion that would legit put on the best match every Raw and every ppv.
WWE nearly went out of business with your boy HBG at the top.
Toguro the sole reason wasn't him. And at the end Shawn helped the company with DX which placed the company on the map again.
HBK was champion in 2002 during the ruthless aggression era lol
Very short run of like two months and then dropped it right back to HHH.
@@toguro5757 I Know What HBG Stands For, The G Word Rhymes With K.
It was Austin's idea to turn heel in the first place go watch some Austin shoot interviews. He thought at the time his character was getting old and he wanted to do something new and fresh with his character and Vince allowed it.
Austin deserved better, and so did we.
Yup, turning Austin heal was the worst move WWE ever did. Probably cost the company 250 million, possibly more, from trying that angle. They really treated Austin terribly.
That was when I quit watching.
According to Eric Bischoff, Turner Hone Entertainment was just a home video atm and the guys with guaranteed contacts were paid by Turner corporate and or Time Warner, not THE
Also, they didn't sign everyone because those guys were making a fortune not to work, not because the contracts were too expensive. If those guys had wanted to sign, WWF could have afforded them
Turner sold his company to TimeWarner. In 2001 when TimeWarner and AOL (America Online) merged companies, Turner was pushed out and WCW was considered expendable.
When the company was sold to WWE, all they acquired was the trademarks and video library. Wrestlers still under contract had to decide if they wanted to void them and wrestle somewhere else or ride them out by staying home.
Right, so add a few hundred k to their contracts and most would've made the choice to work. that's kinda the point... The investment would've paid off in full plus some within a year.
Jim Cornette and Paul Heyman as Paul E. Dangerously VS. Vince Russo and Brian Guritz With Bruce Prichard as the referee in a Hell in a Cell at WrestleMania
This needs booked
The match would still be going to this day because Bruce wouldn't have wanted to hurt someone's feelings 😂
@@Zman9042 i wanted a neutral party to be the ref and bruce said hes friends with all four of them
Very true lol.. i hadnt thought of thay
It’s not Gerwirtz. It’s Gewirtz. Look it up. Y’all are both wrong
the Ruthless Aggression Era was great
I watch an old WCW Saturday night from January 93 last night. Cornette came on and cut promo on Bill Watts. Then Watts came out and they argue. It was great.
they started by pissing on a horse thats been dead for 20 years being WCW
then they made it out like WWF to WWE was vinces idea!
They got sued by the wildlife people "No no! we got the F out! we were amazing!"
I enjoyed Raw more than smackdown in 2003 ruthless aggression era which is only consists of big show ,kurtangle ,brock lesner ect whlie raw was more entertaining with guys like triple h,booker t,Rvd,Scott Steiner,shawn micheals,shelton Benjamin,kane,orton,batista and ofcourse Goldberg for a breif period
15 minutes in, and I think this should be called "Jim Cornette shoots on Invasion Angle and WWE's summary of Monday Night War."
Not that I'm complaining,
I remember a documentary they did on the various Wrestlemanias. They seemed to imply Andre was the champ and put Hogan over at WM III, then Andre just rolled over and died. No mention of him screwing over Hogan for the title later, or why the title was put up in a tournament at WM IV. Andre was still there until WM VI, and wouldn't die until 1993, nearly six years after WM III.
Just watched the first episode and had to listen to this to wash the bullshit outta my head. Can't believe they covered the invasion and Smackdown overtaking Raw in the ratings, without mentioning ECW or the work Paul Heyman did as head of creative once.
Thing is Paul took the best WRESTLERS of that time, Eddie, benoit, angle, edge, mysterio and also had Brock and taker and made their matches more about athletic competition and simple alpha male "im better than you" stories.
Meanwhile on raw, hhh was fighting kane over a dead girlfriend which involved humping a fake corpse in a casket, hot lesbian action, and stuff of that nature.
You can only imagine if they did the Invasion properly, TNA wouldn't be a thing.
No, Vince still hated Jeff Jarret so his father and him would likely have still started their wrestling company, the first few years would have been much more dependent on the newer indie talent and not WCW and WWE alumni but it still would have existed in some form.
TNA would of existed regardless. I don't know how you came to that conclusion but Jeff Jarret has said that TNA came into existed because WWF thought that buying WCW means they would get WCW fans. What Vince didn't know is that a lot of WCW fans left out of loyalty and didn't care for WWF. So Jeff Jarrett took the opportunity to create TNA in hopes of finding WCW's lost fans and get them to boost TNA in the hopes of having a 2nd company directly compete with WWF. Invasion has nothing to do with that at all.
if the roles were reversed: wcw buy wwf.
Do you really think that the winning company would make his former competition look good?
I enjoy Jim’s content but that stars don’t worry about their spot line is wild. There have been countless stories of wrestlers keeping other guys down to maintain the status quo like HHH and Hogan.
Yep even Nash to rock
Ruthless Aggression is a false name for this era. There was nothing ruthless or aggressive about it.. the only thing that was, is how WWE ruthlessly and aggresively shoved Cena down our throats even tho we were vomiting. And how ruthless and aggressive they were in killing ECW.
Cena was pushed to the moon and it made all of us sick. However, one can look at today's product......and appreciate Cena.
@@ymca4547 I hate the Ruthless Cena Shoving Era. Aka Road to PG.
I completely agree with Cornette. Flair, Sting and Goldberg should have been the ones leading the charge in the invasion and probably Bischoff too. I think Stephanie and Shane could've still been involved somehow. Bischoff could have brought in the NWO later on as WCW's ultimate weapon, but then double cross WCW and afterwards double cross Vince too so eventually the invaders were not WCW but the NWO. Eventually Flair would still get half the company, they would do the brand split and the draft, then Flair would sell his half to Vince and he'd appoint GMs, which should be Bischoff and Heyman from the first moment, no Stephanie for a while.
About WWF becoming WWE, I know the reason and I guess the E is because it's the way Vince has always conceived his company and the future of the industry, but I wish they had taken a different route and if they couldn't use WWF perhaps they could have gone back to the beginning and use the old name World Wide Wrestling Federation or even Capital Wrestling like Vince's grandfather.
I've always said that Booker T and DDP could've been the leaders of the InVasion with some of the young guys with a mysterious financial backer to be revealed later (I always said Ted DiBiase would've been awesome here.) The attitude they come in with is *WE* were the *REAL WCW!!!* Have them blame everyone from Ted Turner to Vince to Hogan and Bischoff for the failure. So now they're here to fuck everything up.
@@TRivera13 the problem is that DDP and Booker T weren't big enough stars. Booker won I think 3 of his 5 WCW titles in the last few weeks of Nitro and I think even the 1st one was in 2000, when WCW was a freaking mess.
Guys like Flair, Sting, Goldberg, the Steiners, Luger and the NWO were a lot more significant than DDP or Booker. Imagine if the invasion had gone the other way around snd WWF invaded WCW without Stone Cold, Rock, Undertaker, Triple H, Mick Foley or Kane.
@@anxofernandez3344 Yeah I know they weren't the big stars. But they were pure WCW unlike a majority of the bigger stars. It's something to build on. They could even mention that the reason they weren't bigger stars is because of the old guys who wouldn't get out if the way. Booker and DDP could talk well enough to sell this scenario. Give it time let it build and let's see what sticks.
23:10 no recognition of Shawn Michaels? and what he did for the company?
I love how vince just decided to change the name from wwf to wwe 🙄
Is this a joke?
Ash Hayward yes, in the program they make out the change was all Vinces idea
myers its cause they had to change it because of legal obligations from the wwf, world wildlife fund already having the wwf name
Ash Hayward yes I know, Vince claims it was his idea
In reality: Vince was contacted by them way the hell back in the 80's when he dropped the "wide" w from the name. He said they were just a US company, and wouldn't use the name outside the states. Vince registering wwf.com is what violated their agreement, since websites are very much global.
I will say that I very much enjoy Jim giving Paul Heyman is credit. He has fucked up a lot and been terrible in certain areas but Paul has had some great ideas and great management in the past
WWE got neutered by a wildlife fund and hasn’t been the same
I haven't been a wrestling fan in over 25 years but these stories and Jim talking are great.
This reminds me of the quote from the last samurai, katsumoto and allgren were talking about Custer. Katsumoto said Custer was a good general because he and his troops fought the Indians
Allgren said wasn't a good general, he was a murderer, Vince is like Custer, he fell in love with his own legend and he's troopers died for it. That's a reality check.
Spot on comparison.
was the first episode only about the invasion angle? because that's the attitude era. I wanted to hear more about the ruthless agression era.
i think the reason why austin left and didn't negotiate with vince is because he was afraid brock would go out there and shoot on him, it's supposed to be a squash on live tv, so even if vince said have a match with a mid carder or do a promo on brock, austin had to be thinking vince was going to backstab him in some way
2012, soabcnsk....you don't know what those guys talked about or what was going through austin's mind
"The bug-eyed frog looking fuck..."
I'm tired of people saying Austin is the greatest. He's not. Hogan was the biggest star the business ever had. You don't have to like Hogan, Corny doesn't have to like Hogan, but there never will be a bigger star in wrestling than Hulk Hogan. Austin was big, but even he wasn't the biggest star of the Attitude Era. That was the "Mr. McMahon" character. So here's the thing, Hulk Hogan is the biggest star and there will never be a bigger star ever. That's not opinion, it's a fact. Hogan was never my favorite wrestler, but I know when to give credit. Boo me, hate me all you want, but you know I'm right.
I agree that Hogan is the biggest star ever, but as someone who was 10 and under during the hulkamania era and in jr high/high school during Austin's beer drinking renegade era and even remembered him previously being Stunning Steve Austin... Austin's wholehearted portrayal of the stone cold character was more fun to suspend disbelief and buy into than Hogan or even Flair as great as they are as well imo. Jimmy isnt wrong in saying he was the one guy the fans could believe in as perhaps giving a shoot portrayal of who they are in their heart of hearts. The best ever anti-hero gimmic
THANK YOU!!! By selective measures it was the most popular and successful. It always chaps my ass when Attitude Era fans talk about "Stone Cold is the biggest star in wrestling history" and site merch sales and ratings as "proof" of their claim. He wasn't and my simple example of anecdotal evidence proves my point because I'm positive anyone older than 30 years old will tell you the same type of thing. My Grandmother lived in the middle of the woods in Minnesota, never watched WWF or wrestling in general, and didn't even own a TV but she could tell you who Hulk Hogan was and easily identify him from a picture. By comparison, my Mother, who lived in Phoenix, AZ which sometimes even hosted RAW a couple of times a year with cable television that I often watched both WCW and WWF on couldn't pick Stone Cold out of a line up of him, HBK, HHH, The Rock, and Mankind. An argument could actually be made that Stone Cold wasn't even "the Man" of his own era for God's sake!!! THAT is a true measure of fame. So while inflated numbers due to currency inflation and accessibility lends to this claim, actual evidence that most could probably show you doesn't bear it out.
The WWE was going to purchase WCW and absorb all the contracts for $80 million dollars but TNN wouldn’t let them produce a show on TNT. This is a fact.Viacom had exclusive rights to WWE programming and they refused to have a WCW show. The WWE tried to explain to them how this would help their ratings. So,without TV, the WWE was supposed to absorb contracts of the top WCW wrestlers that were considered ridiculous at the time? The WWE messed up, no question, but the blame belongs to Viacom.
Still think something was up with the sell of wcw and how cheap vince brought it for when there were way more better offers on the table sum executives who vince has relationships with got paid good money to make sure vince got the deal surprised no one looked into it
I mean, the story behind it was that Jamie Kellner was put in charge of TNT, he hated pro wrestling and wanted it off air as soon as possible and when Bischoff and his group needed two weeks to get the cash to buy WCW from him, he got an offer from McMahon for $1m. So he took that to rid himself of pro wrestling ASAP and rebranded as Turner Classic Movies.
It has to do with AOL, they hated wrestling and wouldn't give the tv time for it. Vince bought it cheap because he already had the tv.
Bischoff cancelled his bid when tbs pulled the tv distribution aspect out of the deal. Eric needed tv for his business plan to work. And he didn't think he'd be able to find a distribution deal with another network in time to relaunch the brand. After that no one with real money was interested in acquiring the company. Vince bought it for cheap because to tbs. He was just buying the video library and the contract of the lower tier wrestlers.
Ultimately TBS didn't want wrasslin' on their program. And just wanted to get rid of it fast.
Brian Last speaking as an authority. Yet not recognized by anyone other than Corny
Jim cornette is a legend.
Wcw going out was inevitable...
The end of the territories was the end of "wrestling".
It can never be the same again. Kayfabe?!
It will always be an "entertaining TV show" as its been for years now.
80s wrestling please come back. I miss you.
I’m two years late, but I agree with your assessment. It would be like if magicians across the board ended their shows by showing the audience how every trick and illusion they just saw was done. As an old school fan, it drives me right up the wall to hear them talking so openly about the inner workings of the business.
10:40 Brian unloading on Bruce. Hilarious.
1) buy out all the wcw contracts
2) at the end of the 2002 royal rumble match when it's just triple nose and kurt angle have the wcw stars invade and destroy them making the match a no contest
3) at no way out have a triple threat match with angle, triple nose and jericho with triple nose winning, wcw invades again decimating all three of them, the wwe mid carders come out to save them but get destroyed until kane, the undertaker, stone cold and the rock come out together, they stand on the ramp while the wcw guys hold their ground in the ring before the ppv fades to black while jr has a thunderous orgasm promoting raw the next night
4) at wrestlemania it's hogan vs austin, sting vs undertaker, the rock vs goldberg, flair vs angle, scott hall vs triple h, diesel vs kane
5) wwe can afford the wcw contracts and in the long run everyone in the company will be making unheard of money for the next 2 years making all kinds of dream matches
BINGO!!! I get so sick of hearing "well they were getting paid to stay home so that's what they did." NO YOU MORONS!!! What you should've said "Vince cheaped out because he easily could've lured them away from home with a bit more cash and whatever he invested would've been made back 10 fold within a year because the product they would be putting forth would've been legendary." I don't get this 50/50 ass kissing but still shitting on McMahon from WWE fans. He ROYALLY screwed up that entire situation and pretty much ruined pro wrestling because of it. That's on him and his ego. He certainly could've afforded it and lacked the apparent foresight to know that some of those dream match-ups were a license to print money. Fans would've been throwing their wallets at the product with no hesitation.
@@kennyhouser3467 that's why wcw was able to have their initial success, they gave us dream matches on nitro and pay per view on a regular basis, but maybe vince looked at the problems he had booking shawn michaels and bret hart and thought about the nightmare it would be trying to make the wcw guys look strong while also keeping his own talent from looking like jobbers or weak in any way
I can say WCW went to Tacoma, WA twice..one house show and Spring Stampede 99
whAt aBouT ThE aTtiTuDe eRa 😂
Jim Cornette "I'm not gonna knock all of it. But I'm gonna knock a little bit of it." LOL 😆
I honestly can't watch the WWE Ruthless Aggression Era documentary if they won't feature :
1. Anything Chris Benoit made
2. Stone Cold took his ball and left home in 2002
3. True story behind WWF changed to WWE
4. WWE Divas Search
5. Zach Gowen
6. All of the stuff on Eddie's death
7. Undertaker's Big Evil gimmick
8. The revival of ECW
Can you do the other episodes please?
During the 90s and into early 2000s I was a huge wrestling fan.
I never missed a Monday night or pay per view for years. And I will agree that it’s ridiculous to think I wasn’t aware of who “the enemies” are. I was a wwe/wwf junkie but that doesn’t mean I didn’t know the wcw roster. I was well aware of Them and even had theoretical dream matches I woulda loved to see. (Goldberg & Austin) to say the least.
All in all they fucked up the invasion / merger big time. As a former fan, that was the beginning of the end for my ‘fandom’. It just went down hill.
I haven’t watched a single episode of wwe since 08 ish.
The problem is that without Stone Cold being WRITTEN to beat Goldberg, which absolutely would've happened, it wasn't believable. Excellent character but complete and utter Hollywood and bright lights quality. He would've been crying about having to put Goldberg over just like he did with Brock when BOTH of them could legitimately wreck his ass in a shoot. That's part of the problem.
To those shitting on the invasion;
Yes it sucked, but it does make sense to not pay all those massive contracts to guys who would much rather sit on their ass and make huge money to do less than nothing
When this era started, I stopped watching. Shit started to go downhill after 2001.
Yeah. Pretty much. The casual viewer stopped watching after 2001.
after the rock first left in 2001 the ratings went down for the first time ,then when he returned later that year he was in to many tag team matches...and not pushed as a big deal....
@@joere-uploader5766 The revisionist history is from people like you who downplay eddie and the others. No one was ever gonna follow austin after, whatever peaks must eventually come down but those guys kept it as soft a landing as possible and gave better matches than what we saw in the AE
Going back and rewatching the matches from that time, if you're anything like me, the first thing you'll notice is how varied the finishes are and how they could still come out of nowhere. Of course, it's a product of the television first mentality, and there's something to be said for a crisp, beautiful presentation, but it's impossible to maintain interest in anything when a guy has to do "their finish" to win. That's why people fuckin hated Cena so much, because that's where you started to see it most plainly, but just about any match in the last 10 years, if you knew the result before hand any idiot in the crowd could've told you the finish and known what to look for. Smart fan is a very relative term and a sliding scale, it doesn't take a wrestling savant to predict the finish of a John Cena match down to the moves and timing, you know Aj Styles will hit the Phenomenal Forearm and Balor will hit the Coup de Grace, so no matter how hard you try to get someone invested in the buildup, you'll never hold them through the closing sequence. Legitimately, the last time people didn't see the ending of a WWE match coming was WrestleMania 30, Brock vs. Taker, because no one believed Brock would win even when it was as obvious as the day is long, and in the old days there was that level of uncertainty in every finish cause anyone on the card could win in more than one specific way. I remember going back and watching one of Edge's early matches after binging a lot of modern stuff that was by just about any metric better in the ring than this random tv match, and just being floored at the end because I couldn't see it coming. Edge didn't hit his big move, there were no obvious camera cuts that told you get excited, his opponent made a mistake, Edge capitalized, and he made the pin and the bell rang before me or anyone in the building could register what happened. And that is so valuable, especially used well in early matches. If you can get involved and cheer along with the finish of the first three matches on any card, how can any crowd have the energy to suspend their disbelief for the main event
Not reading all that man, so just gonna say you're wrong
@@nathantturnert1631 Oh, that's funny. "Not going to read all that, man." is a really elegant way to confirm you're ignorant and belligerent. If you can't even be bothered to read a RUclips comment, don't presume to know you understand 60 years of a sports history
@@skynyrdjesus You DONT KNOW 60 YEARS of this! How would you.
Also do Not insult my intellect nor question my integrity
@@nathantturnert1631 Oh. How original. Why would I respond to anything you have to say with respect? You're clearly 10 years old or under, and not my child, so why on Earth would I respect you?
The invasion angle killed pro wrestling.
Not really , cause we got RA after it , it was just a really shitty storyline with some good parts in them , plus that whole angle better than the trash we've gotten the past decade so theirs that .
@shutup FACTS
They should of waited until they could bring in Hogan
@@benzion8885 fuck that , Goldberg & sting should've came ESPECIALLY sting .... But yea they should've waited til the nwo storyline I agree
The invasion angle did not kill wrestling because wrestling was already dead. It died with the territories. The attitude era was big because of the Rock and Steve Austin but without those two guys everything just seemed stupid. Wrestling has been gone for a long time and it will never come back. I gave up on it when WCW became nothing more than the N.W.O was just beating down someone every single show. The truth is if you are not old enough to remember the 70s and 80s then you missed all the good stuff
I would LOVE for you to go on Broken skulls!.. should you be aloud. Jim and Steve shooting the shit is something I need in my life!!
Or even have him on your show, either way, NEED!!
Before watching the first episode, I just knew they were going to gloss over the reason why they changed WWF to WWE and no shock, they totally did. And it was probably the most bullshit cover-up reason ever.
Interesting enough, on the last two Stone Cold DVDs, all of his best matches end with his match with The Rock at WM 17.
Well after this there wernt many amazing matches of the calibre. and his run post heel turn while entertaining doesn't look good in retrospect.
He was a sneaky heel who was a bad guy from april 2001 to December 2001, His summerslam and unforgiven ppvs against angle were amazing but he lost both of those, he lost to jericho at no way out, he lost the everything on the line survivor series match, he lost to taker at backlash, beat hall at mania in an average match. His final match against rock at wm 19 while not as great as 17 was still good but again.... he lost.
Wwe 2002 to 2005 Triple H as world heavyweight champion we the fan's Hate that time in wwe
Even though he was champion WWE during that time was still great
@@zlord1199 on smack down
Totally agree with Cornette on Invasion angle, even just Sting and Goldberg would have made it an awesome event. Taker v Sting at Mania would have been a dream match for me back then