555, I've been meaning to do a video on this subject, but the more research I do the more fed up I get. Typical Thailand bureaucracy... few clear answers. You did a nice job of covering what is known and not known. Take care!
I’d love to see your take on all of this but yeah, it’s frustratingly confusing. I’ve been sent several videos from an lawyer from the US over here screaming that we don’t need to do anything and why he believes that. He’s a little much for me.
Hi Pete. As a new retiree I’m always looking for information on taxes. Good to hear you’ve taken the time to investigate. Pattaya mail had a link to a local Thai tax agent. I contacted him and he gave some great advise like you. Also, I see you were on my daily walking track. I might see you up there one day maybe and say hi. Rob. Pattaya.
There's so much feeling in this music! Have a you ever thought approximately making tracks with regular topics, Like summer or winter vibes? It seem be a one of a kind expansion to your channel!!
Wow, thank you. I originally wanted an unnerving piece of music for the intro but then I didn’t want it to be too off putting and cause people to click away.
@ Your video is excellent! I've taken note that a few video channels join visuals or particular to boost engagement. Fair a thought that might be fun to explore!"
@@FREELANCERKAMAL24 oh, I didn’t make this track. It’s from the RUclips library. I do enjoy looking for the right music for my videos and trying different things.
@ This video is captivating! I've collaborated with a few music channels to offer assistance them develop their perceivability and reach more audience members. If you're open to it, I'd adore to talk about a few techniques that amplofy your channel's reach. lets interface!""
Good to hear some common sense on this whole subject! Like you said most of the "claims" have been made by folks seeking business out of this. Yet we have no clear direction yet. Also I know much of these changes came about due to Thai Nationals working overseas & remitting pay a year after earning it to avoid taxation thru a loophole. This was the original intent to close this loophole as far as I know. But like you I also know it all remains to be seen. Thanks for a good level headed video ! PS: I have had a Thai tax ID# since 2013 but only ever use it to claim back taxes taken from my interest on savings in Thai Banks & they always gave it back.
Hi Pete love your video. Were from Canada retiring later this year in Thailand. Were living off our pensions, are we in the same category as the USA where they cant tax pensions
@@raymondlowon7799 in all honesty, I don’t know. The so-called experts are disagreeing on just about every aspect of this including US pensions. The vast majority of people I know aren’t planning on filing this year. I only know one non-business owner who is filing but I am in no way giving you advice on this. Read through the comments on this video alone and you’ll see how wide a range expats’ beliefs on this whole thing.
We are better off in Canada than The States. The Double Tax Treaty for Canada allows tax free pensions of all kinds. The US only has Social Security (possible other government pensions). Just check the Double Tax Treaties on line and go from there. Carl Turner from Expat Tax Thailand has some really good info on his site and is adding more all the time. They just had an interview with the Revenue Department head. You can view a video on Canada's tax obligations on his web site. This is the closest I've seen to true answers from the Thai government.
Spoke to one of the top tax law firms in BKK, and basically, if you’re from the U.S. (and not on social security or veteran retiree : of course dyor): simply put; stay over 180 days, you pay taxes - what you pay in the U.S. tax counts towards it and pay the difference in the Thai tax bracket. For me, was about to apply for the DTV visa, but it will end up that I will pay 10% MORE than I would just in the U.S. - so now I’m reconfiguring the plan. The fees are not cheap either to get the tax done right by a trusted firm. There’s other factors / how you spend while there as well (such as credit card charges$ that are tracked. Understand why they’re doing this, but personal issue with Taxation without Representation. Demographics of full time (year) is likely going to change to an older / more on the retiree demographic. Also think Thailand will realize the amount of tax collected vs the money leaving the economy is not worth this, but probably happens in like 2 years? Again, understand why they’re doing this, but this kinda makes it harder for the mid-level expats.
This is likely the case but many people disagree. Order 162 covers me until I’m 60 or so because all of my funds were accessible before the new rules took effect. It’ll definitely be interesting to see how this all goes down over the next few years.
I don't think thai responsibles care at all about retirees leaving the country, maybe it is all intended, who knows. All they care about is the capital that comes into thailand, that they will not tax, chinese and russian money. This money is transferred by "internal networks" and never get screened, although 100% known by thai officials, ... but not officially talking about. THIS money is getting the economy running in covid time and now. Wonder who bought all the properties in Phuket, bangkok and Pattaya for insane prices....
I am planning on doing the same as you. The only suggestion I have is that if something does happen in the future that you can show that your money transferred in to Thailand is from your savings. The onus of proof is usually on the taxpayer.
I've been retired here for 2 years now. My only income is from social security from the US. My understanding is that none of it will be taxable. The problem is the confusion and mixed messages from the Thai tax office. Personally, I am not planning on changing or doing anything differently.
That's my understanding too. I'm not giving any advice but I think you will be fine. It's funny how many people think they absolutely know what is going to happen, and how many of them disagree.
@@bjornebekk2 those are 2 different years. It seems you can avoid the tax if you bring it into the country during a year that you are not here 180 days. If you move here in October and bring it in that year, it's not subject to tax
From my understanding, there’s a situation where things can be set up at the hospitals but it requires a certain qualification. I don’t know anything about it though and just heard it briefly mentioned in a conversation once. There’s a great clinic here called Veteran’s First but they only deal with disabled vets (I’m hoping to do a video on them next month). They are awesome according to everyone I know that goes there. There’s also an organization, VHV2020 in the Philippines that helps US vets get or increase their disability status. I’m not a vet but many of my friends and members of our foundation are.
I think VA disability counts as a form of a government pension and the double taxation agreement says that Thailand Article 20: Pensions and Social Security Payments Subject to the provisions of paragraph 2 of Article 21 (Government Service), pensions and other similar remuneration paid to a resident of a Contracting State in consideration of past employment shall be taxable only in that State.
Pete, have you ever thought about "blending" your remittances? By this, I mean you would look at the minimum amount of taxable money per year and top it up with non taxable money. That way you would extend your years of tax free living.
@@peteonretreat2023 I'm not sure I understand. Even Thailand has a personal exemption that you could use. There are marriage exemptions if they apply. This is what most retirees do. We work to the taxable margin rates to get the lowest tax paid. The first 150,000 baht is tax exempt. The next 150,000 baht is only taxed at 5%. It seems that you could bring in a remittance of 150,000 baht of taxable money from the US and not have to pay any tax on that portion. The remainder is also tax free as it was established prior to Dec 31 2023. I'm not aware of you're particular circumstances but I thought I would expand on my comments to see if it could be helpful. I would look up other exemptions as well.
I retired 10 years ago in my late 40s & I have been able to access some of my retirement money without penalty and virtually tax free. First step is to rollover your 401k to an IRA rollover account and to also set up a Roth IRA account. You then can do a Roth conversion for a portion of your IRA rollover. I do one each year for the amount in the “zero tax bracket” (standard deduction) which usually results in little to no taxes due. The only catch is you have to wait 5 calendar years to withdraw it. If you do it every year, you will have some money available in your mid 50s to 59.5 from your retirement account without the early withdrawal penalty.
@@cah-df5se Glad to hear an American weigh in on this. I'm Canuck so I had no response to Pete. It looks like there is a method to pull tax free money from your portfolio. I would just make sure you know that money remitted to Thailand has to pass their minimum exemption as well. So, the maximum you need to remit needs to be 500,000 baht, or below. That's just under 15,000 USD that you could bring in tax free (providing the method above is valid).
Several Immigration offices are now stating that there are no plans to link visas or extensions to any tax IDs. Last out was Chonburi Immigration, according to Pattaya Mail, a few days ago. So I strongly believe you can forget that, Pete.
@@sarlina1 anxiety is worrying about things you can’t control and yeah, I haven’t been too worried about any of this. I know there’s no plans now but with how quick things change around here, it’s hard to predict what new leadership will do.
@@peteonretreat2023 Of course. But as a Thai, I have more faith in the new government, than the previous one. They are more foreigner friendly, and I believe it will look better in the future for both you guys, and for Thais. I will not be surprised if all this blows over. The only thing I don`t like about the new government is that they have approved casinos in Thailand. I am convinced that will have a negative effect on Thailand, and also for foreigners. I see more crime, scams, and a lot more gambling addiction, and street beggars. But that be might a topic for another video, Pete 😊😊
@@sarlina1 I’m with you 100% about the casino. It would cause far more harm than good in my opinion. Gone Adrift did a good video on the casino topic this week. I really like his channel.
It was supposedly announced in the Thai Royal Gazette on October 6th, 2023. It is a new law or just a clarification/change on an existing law in order to close a loophole. That’s an argument of semantics in my opinion. 🤷🏻♂️
You would need to have zero income for your US tax return for 2023 and the next 9 years in order for your remittances to Thailand to not be taxable income in Thailand. I don’t think you have a state or government pension (SSA distributions) in the US since you worked in the private sector and you are not 62 years old yet. IRAs and 401Ks are considered private pensions (not government or state pensions). Distributions from them including Roth IRAs (non-taxable US) are income that will show up on a US tax return. The US Thai tax treaty does not exempt private pensions from being taxed in Thailand. You may have earned the money and put into a retirement account before 2023 but what matters is your income on your 2023 tax return and the next 9 years. I don’t buy your story or justification that you will not need to file a Thai tax return.
@@dangeisser3416 yes, my 2023 income was $0. I’m living 100% of the sale of my house for the next 9 years. I’m not touching my 401k or my IRAs until I’m 60 or older (I’m 51 now). Do you see my justification or understanding now?
Yes it was. Maybe you missed it but order 161/2566 was published in the Royal Gazette on October 6th, 2023. That is less than a month after it was announced by the revenue department. Technically, it may not be a new law because it’s simply a clarification on an existing law but now we’re just talking semantics. As I said multiple times in the video, I’m not giving anyone any advice. I’m just sharing my take on it since so many of my viewers have asked. Thanks for the comment and welcome to the channel!
@barryshaw1972 again, semantics. It’s possibly not a new law but simply just a clarification to the existing law. It was announced in the Royal Gazette on October 6th, 2023 and went into effect on January 1st 2024. It’s funny how you claimed it wasn’t and then ignored me when I pointed out it was. You said there is no new law because it wasn’t announced in the RG but that is incorrect. It was announced in the RG. Does that make it a law? I honestly don’t know but it seemed to be the criteria you set. Everyone is referring it to as a new law (it’s the common nomenclature in the community) so I did the same but I also pointed out in the video that it is simply closing a loop hole in existing law. You also seem to ignore the fact that I never once gave any advice on the subject.
Pension income is taxable income in the UK and probably everywhere else. However, in the UK, the first £12,570 is not taxed. In Thailand however, the zero tax band is only £3,600, so for money brought into Thailand above this amount from pensions, tax will be owed. I haven't crunched the numbers in detail, but it looks like you would owe the Thai tax man about 5 % on the amount a typical retiree might want to bring in over £3,600. The more you bring in, the higher the %. That's the difference between UK income tax and Thai income tax. Thai tax allowances are lower and tax rates are higher. This is because incomes are smaller. As in the UK, I assume that savings not in a pension fund or pension scheme are not considered as income in Thailand. So it would be a case therefore of using the Thai tax return to distinguish between non-taxable money brought in from savings and taxable money brought in from pensions and employment. I imagine you'd have to provide proof of this as well. All of this is nothing new of course. It's probably just that so far, expats haven't been pursued for this money.
@@SteveSmith-zo4mlstop giving illegal tax advice if you are not a Thai national you are breaking the law. Plan and simple the only people qualify to give advice on Thai matters are professional Thai nationals period.
I know and I didn’t. I very clearly said multiple times that I’m not giving any advice. I never once suggested what anyone else should do. I’m not sure why people keep saying don’t give tax advice. 🤷🏻♂️
What’s the downside of getting a tax ID number? When bringing $ into Thailand, how would someone distinguish “old” earnings from investment gains on those earnings?
@@Stashmo some people are worried that getting the tax number would make them stick out but the banks here are already reporting everything to the revenue department (I believe). And yeah, distinguishing money from other money just seems weird too. I think it’s a lot of worrying about nothing. People have already moved out or decided they won’t stay in the country more than 180 days in a year to avoid it all. The order was really about closing a loop hole and isn’t a lot expats really (again, just my understanding).
Easy. Spend more than 180 days in Thailand in a calendar year, you will have to file taxes. 100%. Whether you owe taxes or not requires filing a return. 2024 is based on remittance and must be proven that the income was earned in another year. 180 days, you have to file a tax return. Nothing to disagree, clearly written. Hire a professional Thai tax prepped. ATM and credit card purchases are 100% remittance, no doubt, See Common Reporting Standard. Farang will have to pay taxes as many from the Commonwealth and not tax residents in the UK and not tax residents in Thailand. Penalties are brutal in Thailand. 200% of tax owed payment, plus 1.5% PER MONTH interest. Brutal. Thailand will go to worldwide income like all other nations, but might take a few years. You have to prove the remittance was earned, Do you have the paperwork? Is the money sitting in cash?
@@peteonretreat2023 Who is an expert that is disagreeing with 180 days = Tax Resident? Most nations have a tax resident threshold, usually 183 days. Thailand selected 180 days, two 90-day renewals for a reason, will be tied to 90-day reporting.
@ being a tax resident isn’t what the accountants disagree on. Wherever you need to file or not, and if credit card use or atm withdrawals count is what they disagree on. They definitely disagree if this will be attached to 90 day reporting or not but from my understand, currently there is zero connectivity between immigration and the revenue department. I haven’t seen any evidence that Thailand selected 180 days because of 90 day reporting. Are you just speculating that’s the reason?
@@peteonretreat2023 Totally false. No expert disagrees about ATM or credit card remittance. Both are 100% remittance and easily tracked with CRS. Please identify experts advising farang to commit tax evasion and clearly state the 200% + 1.5% per month penalty for tax evasion, plus potential prison time.
@ not totally false. The accountant/lawyer that Retired Working For You had 2 interviews with said ATM withdrawals and CC transactions do not count as remittance and he’s not the only one I’ve seen say so. I’m not just making stuff up here. I guess I’ve just taken the time to listen to more people than you have. After watching many experts, I’ve yet to see any cite this 200% +1.5% you’re citing… because again, they don’t all agree and are saying a wide range of different things. I usually see a 2000 baht fine and a 1.5% penalty. This morning I watched the tax presentation given at the Pattaya Expat Club last week. That accounting business said they have been dealing directly with the revenue office for months, going there repeatedly to get clarifications on this topic. The presentation was given by a Thai accountant with some type of global certificate from London and of course a license to practice in Thailand. This topic has been her focus for months. According to her and her office, I don’t need a tax ID number and I don’t need to file. I’m not saying they are correct. I’m merely giving you more examples that the experts don’t agree. I think you should chill out a bit.
thanks for the heads up! subscribed.
Thank you for the sub! 🙏🏼
Thumbs up 👍 Pete
@@mangostickyrice555 Always appreciated 🙏🏼 MSR
Great videos thank you! You have a new subscriber!
Thank you 🙏🏼
I’m glad you’re enjoying the channel. Anything in particular you would like to see.
555, I've been meaning to do a video on this subject, but the more research I do the more fed up I get. Typical Thailand bureaucracy... few clear answers. You did a nice job of covering what is known and not known. Take care!
I’d love to see your take on all of this but yeah, it’s frustratingly confusing. I’ve been sent several videos from an lawyer from the US over here screaming that we don’t need to do anything and why he believes that. He’s a little much for me.
@@peteonretreat2023 Huh, I'd be interested in hearing his argument for that... I bet he does not live in Thailand or have a visa to worry about...
@ I think he’s in Thailand. I’ll try to send you a link.
Hi Pete. As a new retiree I’m always looking for information on taxes. Good to hear you’ve taken the time to investigate.
Pattaya mail had a link to a local Thai tax agent. I contacted him and he gave some great advise like you.
Also, I see you were on my daily walking track. I might see you up there one day maybe and say hi.
Rob. Pattaya.
Hey Rob, thanks for commenting. Yes, please say hi if you see me about. I'm always happy to meet new people here.
This instrumentai place is so alleviating! its the culminate foundation for unwinding. Thank you for sharing your ability with us!
There's so much feeling in this music! Have a you ever thought approximately making tracks with regular topics, Like summer or winter vibes? It seem be a one of a kind expansion to your channel!!
Wow, thank you. I originally wanted an unnerving piece of music for the intro but then I didn’t want it to be too off putting and cause people to click away.
@ Your video is excellent! I've taken note that a few video channels join visuals or particular to boost engagement. Fair a thought that might be fun to explore!"
@@FREELANCERKAMAL24 oh, I didn’t make this track. It’s from the RUclips library. I do enjoy looking for the right music for my videos and trying different things.
@ This video is captivating! I've collaborated with a few music channels to offer assistance them develop their perceivability and reach more audience
members. If you're open to it, I'd adore to talk about a few techniques that amplofy your channel's reach. lets interface!""
Good to hear some common sense on this whole subject! Like you said most of the "claims" have been made by folks seeking business out of this. Yet we have no clear direction yet. Also I know much of these changes came about due to Thai Nationals working overseas & remitting pay a year after earning it to avoid taxation thru a loophole. This was the original intent to close this loophole as far as I know. But like you I also know it all remains to be seen. Thanks for a good level headed video ! PS: I have had a Thai tax ID# since 2013 but only ever use it to claim back taxes taken from my interest on savings in Thai Banks & they always gave it back.
Thank you. I wasn’t going to touch this topic at all but people kept asking for my take on it and more specifically, what was I going to do about it.
Hi Pete love your video. Were from Canada retiring later this year in Thailand. Were living off our pensions, are we in the same category as the USA where they cant tax pensions
@@raymondlowon7799 in all honesty, I don’t know. The so-called experts are disagreeing on just about every aspect of this including US pensions.
The vast majority of people I know aren’t planning on filing this year. I only know one non-business owner who is filing but I am in no way giving you advice on this. Read through the comments on this video alone and you’ll see how wide a range expats’ beliefs on this whole thing.
We are better off in Canada than The States. The Double Tax Treaty for Canada allows tax free pensions of all kinds. The US only has Social Security (possible other government pensions). Just check the Double Tax Treaties on line and go from there. Carl Turner from Expat Tax Thailand has some really good info on his site and is adding more all the time. They just had an interview with the Revenue Department head. You can view a video on Canada's tax obligations on his web site. This is the closest I've seen to true answers from the Thai government.
@@golfinginthailandthanks for the information and your insights
Spoke to one of the top tax law firms in BKK, and basically, if you’re from the U.S. (and not on social security or veteran retiree : of course dyor): simply put; stay over 180 days, you pay taxes - what you pay in the U.S. tax counts towards it and pay the difference in the Thai tax bracket. For me, was about to apply for the DTV visa, but it will end up that I will pay 10% MORE than I would just in the U.S. - so now I’m reconfiguring the plan. The fees are not cheap either to get the tax done right by a trusted firm. There’s other factors / how you spend while there as well (such as credit card charges$ that are tracked. Understand why they’re doing this, but personal issue with Taxation without Representation. Demographics of full time (year) is likely going to change to an older / more on the retiree demographic. Also think Thailand will realize the amount of tax collected vs the money leaving the economy is not worth this, but probably happens in like 2 years? Again, understand why they’re doing this, but this kinda makes it harder for the mid-level expats.
This is likely the case but many people disagree. Order 162 covers me until I’m 60 or so because all of my funds were accessible before the new rules took effect. It’ll definitely be interesting to see how this all goes down over the next few years.
@ this is a particular case but definitely good on you. Doesn’t seem to be the case for a Lot of people though; including myself unfortunately..
I don't think thai responsibles care at all about retirees leaving the country, maybe it is all intended, who knows. All they care about is the capital that comes into thailand, that they will not tax, chinese and russian money. This money is transferred by "internal networks" and never get screened, although 100% known by thai officials, ... but not officially talking about. THIS money is getting the economy running in covid time and now. Wonder who bought all the properties in Phuket, bangkok and Pattaya for insane prices....
I am planning on doing the same as you. The only suggestion I have is that if something does happen in the future that you can show that your money transferred in to Thailand is from your savings. The onus of proof is usually on the taxpayer.
I should be able to do that easily enough.
I've been retired here for 2 years now. My only income is from social security from the US. My understanding is that none of it will be taxable. The problem is the confusion and mixed messages from the Thai tax office. Personally, I am not planning on changing or doing anything differently.
That's my understanding too. I'm not giving any advice but I think you will be fine. It's funny how many people think they absolutely know what is going to happen, and how many of them disagree.
If i sell my house in october 2025 and bring this money to Thailand in 2026 is it tax free or do i get wealth tax?
It depends who you listen to. Some say yes and others say you don’t even have to file.
@@peteonretreat2023 all i hear is if its 1 year before its tax free, but october is to januar 2026 is only 3 months..
@@bjornebekk2 those are 2 different years. It seems you can avoid the tax if you bring it into the country during a year that you are not here 180 days. If you move here in October and bring it in that year, it's not subject to tax
How about VA disability benefits? You heard anything about those ?
From my understanding, there’s a situation where things can be set up at the hospitals but it requires a certain qualification. I don’t know anything about it though and just heard it briefly mentioned in a conversation once.
There’s a great clinic here called Veteran’s First but they only deal with disabled vets (I’m hoping to do a video on them next month). They are awesome according to everyone I know that goes there.
There’s also an organization, VHV2020 in the Philippines that helps US vets get or increase their disability status.
I’m not a vet but many of my friends and members of our foundation are.
I think VA disability counts as a form of a government pension and the double taxation agreement says that Thailand
Article 20: Pensions and Social Security Payments
Subject to the provisions of paragraph 2 of Article 21 (Government Service), pensions and other similar remuneration paid to a resident of a Contracting State in consideration of past employment shall be taxable only in that State.
Pete, have you ever thought about "blending" your remittances? By this, I mean you would look at the minimum amount of taxable money per year and top it up with non taxable money. That way you would extend your years of tax free living.
I can’t get to any taxable money without getting penalties on it.
@@peteonretreat2023 I'm not sure I understand. Even Thailand has a personal exemption that you could use. There are marriage exemptions if they apply. This is what most retirees do. We work to the taxable margin rates to get the lowest tax paid. The first 150,000 baht is tax exempt. The next 150,000 baht is only taxed at 5%. It seems that you could bring in a remittance of 150,000 baht of taxable money from the US and not have to pay any tax on that portion. The remainder is also tax free as it was established prior to Dec 31 2023. I'm not aware of you're particular circumstances but I thought I would expand on my comments to see if it could be helpful. I would look up other exemptions as well.
I’m saying my inaccessible money is in my 401k which I can’t touch for another 9 years without incurring penalties.
I retired 10 years ago in my late 40s & I have been able to access some of my retirement money without penalty and virtually tax free.
First step is to rollover your 401k to an IRA rollover account and to also set up a Roth IRA account. You then can do a Roth conversion for a portion of your IRA rollover. I do one each year for the amount in the “zero tax bracket” (standard deduction) which usually results in little to no taxes due. The only catch is you have to wait 5 calendar years to withdraw it. If you do it every year, you will have some money available in your mid 50s to 59.5 from your retirement account without the early withdrawal penalty.
@@cah-df5se Glad to hear an American weigh in on this. I'm Canuck so I had no response to Pete. It looks like there is a method to pull tax free money from your portfolio. I would just make sure you know that money remitted to Thailand has to pass their minimum exemption as well. So, the maximum you need to remit needs to be 500,000 baht, or below. That's just under 15,000 USD that you could bring in tax free (providing the method above is valid).
Several Immigration offices are now stating that there are no plans to link visas or extensions to any tax IDs. Last out was Chonburi Immigration, according to Pattaya Mail, a few days ago. So I strongly believe you can forget that, Pete.
@@sarlina1 anxiety is worrying about things you can’t control and yeah, I haven’t been too worried about any of this. I know there’s no plans now but with how quick things change around here, it’s hard to predict what new leadership will do.
@@peteonretreat2023 Of course. But as a Thai, I have more faith in the new government, than the previous one. They are more foreigner friendly, and I believe it will look better in the future for both you guys, and for Thais. I will not be surprised if all this blows over. The only thing I don`t like about the new government is that they have approved casinos in Thailand. I am convinced that will have a negative effect on Thailand, and also for foreigners. I see more crime, scams, and a lot more gambling addiction, and street beggars. But that be might a topic for another video, Pete 😊😊
@@sarlina1 I’m with you 100% about the casino. It would cause far more harm than good in my opinion. Gone Adrift did a good video on the casino topic this week. I really like his channel.
There are no new tax laws!!!
It was supposedly announced in the Thai Royal Gazette on October 6th, 2023. It is a new law or just a clarification/change on an existing law in order to close a loophole. That’s an argument of semantics in my opinion. 🤷🏻♂️
Mr Pete is a Savage. ¡!!¡!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@keeperzero not as savage as that big bad boggie man! 😆
You would need to have zero income for your US tax return for 2023 and the next 9 years in order for your remittances to Thailand to not be taxable income in Thailand. I don’t think you have a state or government pension (SSA distributions) in the US since you worked in the private sector and you are not 62 years old yet. IRAs and 401Ks are considered private pensions (not government or state pensions). Distributions from them including Roth IRAs (non-taxable US) are income that will show up on a US tax return. The US Thai tax treaty does not exempt private pensions from being taxed in Thailand. You may have earned the money and put into a retirement account before 2023 but what matters is your income on your 2023 tax return and the next 9 years.
I don’t buy your story or justification that you will not need to file a Thai tax return.
@@dangeisser3416 yes, my 2023 income was $0. I’m living 100% of the sale of my house for the next 9 years. I’m not touching my 401k or my IRAs until I’m 60 or older (I’m 51 now).
Do you see my justification or understanding now?
Don’t give tax advice. There is no new laws. Nothing in Royal Gazette as yet so no new laws.
Yes it was. Maybe you missed it but order 161/2566 was published in the Royal Gazette on October 6th, 2023. That is less than a month after it was announced by the revenue department.
Technically, it may not be a new law because it’s simply a clarification on an existing law but now we’re just talking semantics.
As I said multiple times in the video, I’m not giving anyone any advice. I’m just sharing my take on it since so many of my viewers have asked.
Thanks for the comment and welcome to the channel!
You indicated Jan24 was a new law. As said there is no new law
@barryshaw1972 again, semantics. It’s possibly not a new law but simply just a clarification to the existing law. It was announced in the Royal Gazette on October 6th, 2023 and went into effect on January 1st 2024. It’s funny how you claimed it wasn’t and then ignored me when I pointed out it was.
You said there is no new law because it wasn’t announced in the RG but that is incorrect. It was announced in the RG. Does that make it a law? I honestly don’t know but it seemed to be the criteria you set.
Everyone is referring it to as a new law (it’s the common nomenclature in the community) so I did the same but I also pointed out in the video that it is simply closing a loop hole in existing law.
You also seem to ignore the fact that I never once gave any advice on the subject.
Pension income is taxable income in the UK and probably everywhere else. However, in the UK, the first £12,570 is not taxed. In Thailand however, the zero tax band is only £3,600, so for money brought into Thailand above this amount from pensions, tax will be owed. I haven't crunched the numbers in detail, but it looks like you would owe the Thai tax man about 5 % on the amount a typical retiree might want to bring in over £3,600. The more you bring in, the higher the %. That's the difference between UK income tax and Thai income tax. Thai tax allowances are lower and tax rates are higher. This is because incomes are smaller.
As in the UK, I assume that savings not in a pension fund or pension scheme are not considered as income in Thailand. So it would be a case therefore of using the Thai tax return to distinguish between non-taxable money brought in from savings and taxable money brought in from pensions and employment. I imagine you'd have to provide proof of this as well.
All of this is nothing new of course. It's probably just that so far, expats haven't been pursued for this money.
@@SteveSmith-zo4mlstop giving illegal tax advice if you are not a Thai national you are breaking the law. Plan and simple the only people qualify to give advice on Thai matters are professional Thai nationals period.
Don't give tax advice...it's not legal.
I know and I didn’t. I very clearly said multiple times that I’m not giving any advice. I never once suggested what anyone else should do. I’m not sure why people keep saying don’t give tax advice. 🤷🏻♂️
Nothing much happening about this subject 😂
I’ve seen a few people run and get their ID numbers but yeah… I think most folks out here are just going to ignore it for now.
@ 🤣🤣🤣 that’s very silly
What’s the downside of getting a tax ID number? When bringing $ into Thailand, how would someone distinguish “old” earnings from investment gains on those earnings?
@@Stashmo some people are worried that getting the tax number would make them stick out but the banks here are already reporting everything to the revenue department (I believe).
And yeah, distinguishing money from other money just seems weird too. I think it’s a lot of worrying about nothing. People have already moved out or decided they won’t stay in the country more than 180 days in a year to avoid it all. The order was really about closing a loop hole and isn’t a lot expats really (again, just my understanding).
Easy. Spend more than 180 days in Thailand in a calendar year, you will have to file taxes. 100%. Whether you owe taxes or not requires filing a return. 2024 is based on remittance and must be proven that the income was earned in another year. 180 days, you have to file a tax return. Nothing to disagree, clearly written. Hire a professional Thai tax prepped. ATM and credit card purchases are 100% remittance, no doubt, See Common Reporting Standard. Farang will have to pay taxes as many from the Commonwealth and not tax residents in the UK and not tax residents in Thailand. Penalties are brutal in Thailand. 200% of tax owed payment, plus 1.5% PER MONTH interest. Brutal. Thailand will go to worldwide income like all other nations, but might take a few years. You have to prove the remittance was earned, Do you have the paperwork? Is the money sitting in cash?
I hear what you're saying but many "experts" are disagreeing. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next few months and years to come.
@@peteonretreat2023 Who is an expert that is disagreeing with 180 days = Tax Resident? Most nations have a tax resident threshold, usually 183 days. Thailand selected 180 days, two 90-day renewals for a reason, will be tied to 90-day reporting.
@ being a tax resident isn’t what the accountants disagree on. Wherever you need to file or not, and if credit card use or atm withdrawals count is what they disagree on. They definitely disagree if this will be attached to 90 day reporting or not but from my understand, currently there is zero connectivity between immigration and the revenue department.
I haven’t seen any evidence that Thailand selected 180 days because of 90 day reporting. Are you just speculating that’s the reason?
@@peteonretreat2023 Totally false. No expert disagrees about ATM or credit card remittance. Both are 100% remittance and easily tracked with CRS. Please identify experts advising farang to commit tax evasion and clearly state the 200% + 1.5% per month penalty for tax evasion, plus potential prison time.
@ not totally false. The accountant/lawyer that Retired Working For You had 2 interviews with said ATM withdrawals and CC transactions do not count as remittance and he’s not the only one I’ve seen say so.
I’m not just making stuff up here. I guess I’ve just taken the time to listen to more people than you have. After watching many experts, I’ve yet to see any cite this 200% +1.5% you’re citing… because again, they don’t all agree and are saying a wide range of different things. I usually see a 2000 baht fine and a 1.5% penalty.
This morning I watched the tax presentation given at the Pattaya Expat Club last week. That accounting business said they have been dealing directly with the revenue office for months, going there repeatedly to get clarifications on this topic. The presentation was given by a Thai accountant with some type of global certificate from London and of course a license to practice in Thailand. This topic has been her focus for months. According to her and her office, I don’t need a tax ID number and I don’t need to file. I’m not saying they are correct. I’m merely giving you more examples that the experts don’t agree.
I think you should chill out a bit.