Because William Shakespeare, Abraham Lincoln, Enki, Enlil, and Nikola Tesla haven't approached her with Billy Carson and force fed her the psychedelic fruit and bugs.
The origins of Zoroastrianism and how far back do its roots really go is unclear and debated among scholars. Some suggest Zarathustra himself lived as far back as 2000 BC while others claim he only lived as recently as 400 BC, long after the Israelite monotheism had been on the scene for a while. So making any sort of arguments attempting to argue Judaism was influenced by Zoroastrianism is bound to be on a very shaky foundation.
Exactly. So many of the written texts were lost (I believe due to Alexander) that it's hard to say for certain when parts emerged. Additionally, the beliefs of Judaism and Christianity allow for other cultures to have glimpses of the Truth even if they didn't have it in full. It's entirely possible that some groups came very close while still lacking other areas.
Right, it is believed that Cyrus the Great and his family line were Zoroastrians. That it had a lot in common with Judaism and thus he was disposed to view them with favor. Freeing them and restoring their temple and treasure.
@@ElessarofGondor It is quite possible that the influence was the other way around, that is, the Persians were influenced by the Jews and their religion while they lived as exiles in Babylon. Alternatively, I am open to the idea that Zarathustra himself may have had a divine encounter with God, who revealed himself to him under a different name. The qualities ascribed to Ahura Mazda (which literally means "Lord of Wisdom") certainly are quite similar to how Yahweh is described in the Bible.
From what I understand, the suggested influence of Zoroastrianism on Judaism would have occurred pretty late, so that's no impediment. This would not mean it was a trivial influence though, far from it.
what's not generally controversial is that 1. Cyrus the great, who ended the babylonian exile, used Zoroastrianism as the state religion and 2. the first explicit statement of monotheism ("there are no other gods" rather than "don't worship other gods before me") is in 2 Isaiah, which was written during or after the babylonian exile. It's notable that Isaiah says Cyrus was annointed by God and Cyrus is praised beyond almost any other monarch in the bible
The death of Zoroastrianism which was a direct result of the Islamic conquests is pretty tragic. It's quite clearly a much more superior and peaceful religion than Islam will ever be.
As a Christian, I really like Zoroastrianism. It's a beautiful belief system. It's also widely speculated that the Wise Men or Magi that visited Jesus when He was a baby were Zoroastrians. I don't know if it's true, but nonetheless, it's sad that Iran is under the dark rainy cloud that is Islam... Regardless of our beliefs, we must grieve that Zoroastrianism was replaced by the satanic revelations of prophet Momo (Police be upon him).
Ya gotta give it to iran: they kept a lot of their traditions and cultural heritage under the steamroller that was Islam. One of the greatest sins Islam has committed throughout its history (not intentionally mind you) was its bastardly homogenizing of all the middle eastern cultures, ethnic group, art and myths. All that made some of those nations unique and distinct were bulldozed and replaced with a giant prayer carpet. Iran and Iraq kept some of its identity, its sense of self. I respect them greatly for that.
Ya once found a Jordan Peterson fan who tried arguing this. He simultaneously argued all religions are the same but Zoroastrianism is better and the true source of wisdom that Christianity borrowed from
@@martytu20really because Michael Jones actually discovered Jenny Krueger effect as well just like you guys are doing dunning-kruger effect that's called irony and hypocrisy.
@@charliejackson5492 no, I listened to Peterson for years and have a pretty good grasp on what he has to say. Unlike Peterson I’ve gone out of my way to study a variety of topics and see how he gets them dangerously wrong. It’s not even my “expertise” it’s the expertise of others who I’ve read and agree with
During the long period of often extremely violent interaction and competition between the officially-Christian Byzantine and officially-Zoroastrian Sassanian Persian Empires, religion was a big point of conflict. Yet, there were far more Christians in the Persian Empire than Zoroastrians in the Byzantine. Given the fact that, while we know the Christian Scriptures were firmly settled well before this period, the Zoroastrian scriptures were still changing and developing during this time of exchange, it seems considerably more likely that Christianity had more of an influence on Zoroastrianism than the reverse. Also, unlike the Christian empire's many attemps, the Islamic Caliphate succeeded in completely overcoming and replacing the Zoroastrian Persian Empire. If, as the above-quoted works claim, there were still key ideas entering into Zoroastrian thought even into the 9th-Century, it seems likely that Islam would be a big part of that influence. The question remains, how much did Zoroastrianism influence Islam? This is all exacerbated by the fact that the Zoroastrian scriptures that come down to us are not only in very late manuscrips, but the ancient corpus itself is largely lost. The remaining texts written in Avestan (the ancient languange of Zoroastrianism's founding, thus the oldest layer) are relative scraps of a much larger whole, most of which has been lost. Imagine if what we had of the Bible today were only Medieval copies of the book of Leviticus and a chunk of the Psalms, and then several layers of traditional non-prophetically-uttered material compiled many centuries later than the lost formative texts. Basically, it would be nearly impossible to determine what the religion actually looked like in its classical (in this case, Avestan) form and how it had been influenced over time. As I said, there is more room for speculation regarding the impact of Zoroastrian influence on Islam, though that of Judaism and Christianity must have been far greater; there are questions as to the influence of the Persian religion on the development of Judaism, but the vague timeline and information we have of early Zoroastrianism leave this almost a moot point of mere speculation; yet the idea that Zoroastrianism had a key impact on the development of Christianity seems unlikely, unless you assume the unprovable assertion that it fundamentally influenced Judaism first, and thereby Christianity. The fact that even a very rough time-frame for the supposed life of Zarathustra himself is not forthcoming, it could as easily be argued that early Hebrew prophets had an influence on Indo-Iranian thought, or that any similarities are due to some kind of shared ideological millieu rather than direct borrowing.
Thank you for the time you took the write this, this was very interesting and informative! In particular your comparison of what we have left of the Zoroastrian scriptures being the equivalent of if all that was left of the Bible were medieval copies of parts of Leviticus and the Psalms is very eye opening.
Woah that's false you are very confused first off Christianity Bible was still still developing in the 6th and 7th centuries and your so called canon has changes and completes in the texts and additionals and take aways and word fixing and spelling changes in the koine and much more. But the best time ever had was not ever changing it had to be a few fixed up because of the fact it was consistently hard to keep around because of Islamic persecution and Christians kept it well into attacked all the way to the 6th century CE. U are quite ignorant and not learned on this subject. There weren't that many Christians in the sassinid Kingdom as byzantine as you wannasay. And also you need to consider that heaven and hell and Angela and devils that cultianity didn't have took on lots of power from Zoroastrians centuries on even in the first 2 centuries CE and third even when there was ideas and views that colored Christian occult book Bible. The copies you stated you know little of those are products of rendition and fix up from 2nd Century CE which prior to the Christian Bible even penned up and we know now your unholy book occult piece Bible is later than the 2nd and even third with lots to all its pieces post dating 2nd and 3rd centuries. And you are ignorant of zoroastrian zoroaster his time was or is now placed properly to 1500 - 1100 BCE not 2000 though good but not 600 BCE either now. Pictures from Western misunderstandings or westernization misunderstanding of the text and have biases and checking and not actually reading from it assuming are instead of actually trusting you to trustworthiness of the traditions and the facts and text in the background and proof from Zoroastrian sources themselves.
Your Hebrew prophets are laughably false and it's actually lots of error in misunderstanding of the text and dates of them as well as the day I actually got their monotheism from Celestial so actually you got it backwards and from Babylonian monotheism of MRDK @@legodavid9260
Except all of what you described is completely backwards and owes more to apologetics than scholarship. The oldest layers of the Hebrew Bible paint a very different picture of Yahweh, and he resembles a member of the Canaanite pantheon up until the exile. 2nd Isaiah, the part that refers to Cyrus the Great Zoroastrian king as Messiah, kickstarts the Persianization of Israelite religion. Post exile, the Jews suddenly become monotheistic, adopting a radically different picture of God that more closely resembles Ahura Mazda in the Gathas of Zoroaster. Belief in angels, resurrection, and final judgment also appears in the branch of Judaism that became Christianity and Rabbinical Judaism. (The Christian NT tells us the Sadducees believed in neither angels nor the resurrection.) This is why, based on the evidence, there's nothing that would suggest the influence flowed the other way. This is why the consensus of scholars is what it is.
Also his dating system is pathetically wrong he's using one part which actually is in fact a copy of a copy of I think his understanding might be is Michael Say the original Bible for the Christianity is the KJv or mideval Vulgate. He doesn't realize how stupid he is.
Remember those Good Old Days when the Persians saved Jews first (Cyrus) and then the Christians (For a short period before Constantine legalized it) Also, I'm disappointed with the 20th Anniversary of Fate Stay Night A lot of historical figures are not yet added
@@Wicked_Weavile0808Start with Fate Zero Then, watch the three routes of Fate Stay Night (The first one's adaptation quality is kinda poor) Then, go with Apocrypha (This is not for religious snowflakes btw who get offended over minor discrepancies) Play the Fate Grand Order game
It’s possible that the three magi that visited Christ at His birth were Zoroastrian priests.. & I don’t know how old this belief is, or if it was influenced by other religions, but Zoroastrians believe in a savior called the Saoshyant who would end all evil and bring about the final renovation of the cosmos. Perhaps they were looking for Him.. & found Him. 👀
Yeah, the Christians or Jews who are resistant to this idea feel their religion is being attacked which it isnt. Both sides were influenced by each other. The Jews shared their scriptures with the Persians when Cyrus freed them from Babylon, and Cyrus was friendly to them because they saw each others religions as kindred spirits. Also the reference of the Magi in the Gospels is there by no accident. Its saying something without saying it. Essentially that the Zoroastrians also had the right ideas about the Messiah (Saoshyant) as Isaiah, Daniel, or any other Old Testament prophet, all the way back to the Torah which was pre exile. Also Zoroastrian apocalyptic literature probably predates Daniel and Isaiah and when you read, the imagery and theological similarity is so glaring.
So? How is them being Zoroastrian priests a proof that Zoroastrianism influenced Christianity? That's as stupid as saying that because Pontius Pilatus let Jesus into the hands of Jews, Christianity was influenced by Roman Paganism.
@@paulkickling7828 Similarity does not mean anything!!! It is one thing to be similar to the truth and a complete other thing to be the truth, zoroastrianism is satanism.
@@Ezralibrascale I’m not talking about the late antiquity Zend Avesta, which everyone agrees was influenced by Christianity; I’m talking about the classical antiquity Gathas and Yasna. The oral tradition of ancient Zoroastrianism influenced both Greek philosophy and Judaism, and the changed to Judaism were fundamental.
Its strange that faithful are so willing to see other religions being altered and changed in order to keep the people believing but refuse to believe the possibility that their faith is just as falsely based.
Ugh that stupid smug face like “you’re all so dumb. I’m only 20 and I watched a tiktok about how all you believe is fake. There’s so many religions. Everyone believed in Hod so there clearly isn’t one. There’s no dna of Christ so he clearly wasn’t real. There’s no “contemporary copies of the Bible so it clearly is fake. Y’all just never do any research and go along with whatever you’re told.” The projecting is nuts. I’m so tired of the same dumbahh arguments that they could disprove themselves with a single search.
Good response. Also, you might like some of Gad Barnea’s work on the history of Zoroastrianism in regards to Yahwism, though I do disagree with him from time to time.
Michael, I'd just like to thank you for making these daily shorts that provide us knowledge and information. I actually feel like I've learned more from watching your videos and shorts than I did in most of my school career. I just have a question though, either from you or someone kind enough in the comments. I'd like to get into researching and being able to provide actual credible sources and being able to survive in arguments with other people, what would be a good place to start? Thank you in advance and God bless!
It blew my mind when i discovered that the Avesta just contains all the available literature we have in the Older and Younger Avestan languages. So the "canon" is actually based on whether they're written in those languages.
Yeah, the Christians or Jews who are resistant to this idea feel their religion is being attacked which it isnt. Both sides were influenced by each other. The Jews shared their scriptures with the Persians when Cyrus freed them from Babylon, and Cyrus was friendly to them because they saw each others religions as kindred spirits. Also the reference of the Magi in the Gospels is there by no accident. Its saying something without saying it. Essentially that the Zoroastrians also had the right ideas about the Messiah (Saoshyant) as Isaiah, Daniel, or any other Old Testament prophet, all the way back to the Torah which was pre exile.
Yeah you can definitely see someone randomly coming across this hypothesis about Zoroastrianism having influence on the Abrahamic faiths and then immediately making some tik tock video people might believe 🤔.
It's facts not hypothesis. The points are all over the place here. No way to ignore unless youre brainwashed like Michael trained lie and twist and deflect whenever facts are brought.
The arguments of Michael or hypothesis best considering your own false beliefs or hypothesis they have no foundation or standing spiritually historically textually and are much later and weaker than they really are in fact way weaker. And the Jesus guy Christ more fake and fraud than you want to believe in contradicts himself and John has no power than you been told. That sounds emotional your response is. Not factoral.
Her statement was that there is a religion that may have impacted the Abraham religion, and if it was a religion around at that time, it probably did have some impact means it had an impact. It’s not saying that it was copied or anything like that basically anything that exist time and place you will have an impact on you, it doesn’t mean that it controls you or influences the direction you’re going but it will impact you because that’s how reality works. Islam and atheist existing in America has impacted Christianity in America. It’s not saying it makes Christianity illegal but it has definitely had an impact like the Bible is no longer part of American culture as it always was. The bible is no longer really in public tax funded places like schools anymore, so you have to understand the meaning of impact, and then what she says, actually seems fair and reasonable of a statement. so anything that exist alongside something else will have an impact on it that’s just how things work. What the impact was would be the question to ask.
Abraham came from Ur of the Chaldees which many scholars believe refers to the ancient city of Ur in Sumer, located in the southern part of Mesopotamia, in modern-day Iraq somewhere in the year 2000 BC. Zoroaster (or Zarathustra), who is thought to have lived in the early part of the 1st millennium BCE, possibly around 6th century BCE. This timeline and geographical origin place Zoroastrianism considerably later and eastward compared to the Sumerian civilization that Abraham was from. The 2 civilizations would have encountered each other during the Babylonian exile. While it is thought that The Persians may have influenced the Hebrews during this time, it is possible that the alternative is true as documented in the Book of Daniel, where Daniel became respected by the Magi with his ability to interpret dreams. You then see the importance of Daniel on the Magi when their caste was aware of Jewish prophesy. The most notable of these is the prophecy of the "seventy weeks" found in Daniel 9:24-27. Seventy Weeks: The seventy weeks are often understood as a symbolic period of time, totaling 490 years (with each week representing seven years). Messiah's Coming: The prophecy mentions that after 69 weeks (or 483 years), an anointed one (Messiah) will come. This has been interpreted by many Christian theologians as a prediction of the coming of Jesus Christ. The Timeline: The starting point for this prophecy is often debated, but it's commonly associated with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, which some link to the decree of Artaxerxes I in 457 BC or 444 BC. Counting 483 years from these points leads to a date in the 1st century AD, around the time of Jesus' ministry. It seems that the Magi respected Daniel enough to keep track of his prophesy. This prophecy, delivered by the angel Gabriel, speaks of a period of "seventy weeks of years" (or 490 years) that are decreed for the people of Israel and the holy city of Jerusalem. If one believes the the Bible was written pre exile, then this hypothesis makes sense. If one believes it was written during exile, then the influence is possible but still not definitive in that their writings could have been polemics against the Persian religions they encountered.
I'm pretty sure she was implying that Zoroastrianism influenced the *development* , and thus fundamental character, of the Abrahamic faiths, not that they merely had to have cultural and historical intercourse with each other. If the latter is what she were talking about, than her point would be so obvious and universal not to be worth making. I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt that, "these religions happened to exist at the same time and were aware of each other," isn't the point she's arguing for.
@@jameswoodard4304but an issue with this is that judaism is older then the exile, and so was the monotheistic ideas in judaism, so either way i dont think Zoroastrianism did much with judaism, considering also how the writings of the old and new testament were very carefully kept the same
@@jameswoodard4304 In fairness the short clip we have only shows her introduce the word, it doesn't really tell us anything about her claims or sources. If the article was done as a documentary style on what Zoroastrism was then it could have been done in a respectful way to other religions. We'd need to see the whole video to know.
@dudd4171 , I agree. Some people argue erroneously that essentially all of the Hebrew Bible was written post-exile, but they only do so by ignoring textual and linguistic evidence to the contrary and because they assume that accurate prophecy can only be accounted for by faking it after the fact. The real problem keeping us from cutting off discussion of Z influencing the formation of Judaism is that the dates for Zarathustra are all over the place. They can't decide if their prophet lived in 2000BC or 400BC, so it's impossible to prove anything either way by means of the timeline. But yes, the burden of evidence would really be on them to show that Z influenced Judaism rather than on us having to show that it didn't.
NOOO nunnhhh ahhh it didn't christianity too and Judaism especially the persian period and later. Macabeees and enoch and Christian bible all have Zoroastrian influence.
Can i just make a recommendation ?. When citing sources . Can you cite their qualifications ? For new followers of the channel and also refer to them as Dr to respect their expertise .
Freddy Mercury is my favorite Zoroastrian for his immaculate music. My second is Cyrus the Great for freeing the Jews from the Babylonian Captivity, and being an overall benevolent emperor. I’d much prefer a Zoroastrian Iran than what we have now.
As a muslim i agree. In torah,bible and the last revelation Quran we have the same prophets wich are like wayyyyy older than zoroastrianism. I mean a random girl saying zoroastrianism influenced abrahamics? it sounds to me that abrahamics influenced zoroastrianism💀
Zoroastrianism is the oldest still used religion tho. Was huge in the first persian empires. It definitly influenced christians and jews and muslims which we can see today in the persian new year celebrated by muslimsnin iran for example. The question is what it influenced
Yeah, the Christians or Jews who are resistant to this idea feel their religion is being attacked which it isnt. Both sides were influenced by each other. The Jews shared their scriptures with the Persians when Cyrus freed them from Babylon, and Cyrus was friendly to them because they saw each others religions as kindred spirits. Also the reference of the Magi in the Gospels is there by no accident. Its saying something without saying it. Essentially that the Zoroastrians also had the right ideas about the Messiah (Saoshyant) as Isaiah, Daniel, or any other Old Testament prophet, all the way back to the Torah which was pre exile. Also Zoroastrian apocalyptic literature probably predates Daniel and Isaiah and when you read, the imagery and theological similarity is so glaring.
@charliejackson5492 lol how is it a modern invention? In the original Greek the Persian word "magi" is used. The only reason to use that word is to specify Zoroastrian priests, not Rabbis, Zoroastrian priests.
@@paulkickling7828 no one said rabbis. It is modern day guess it's Zoroastrian. The word magi meaning kings or Wisemen no explanation of religion or belief. Simply not there no where to Zoroastrians.
@charliejackson5492 dude BACK THEN THE MEANING, not what it was later interpreted as meaning in the context. The only context AT THAT TIME to use that word is a Zoroastrian priest, since thats the only place that word was used and what it referred to. And also coupled with "from the east" whats east of Israel? Want to remind me? Babylon? And who controlled Babylon at this time?
Yes the Yezidis are an Abrahamic religion that is also practically an Zarathustrian religion. Yezidis worship the monotheistic one God througg Archangel Michael essentially who they call Melek Taus (note the Taus and Torah, or even the chinese Tao, all meaning to split into two, hence why Torus comes after Aries the Ram / Lamb, and the bull splits them into two (Gemini)). This is the same story as Mithras being charged by the bull but he overcame. In Christianity, the bull are the Romans and Israelite priests wanting to end him but he overcame by getting immortal life.
I will say, what little of the Zoroastrian texts I've read, its Monotheistic in the most meaningless sense of the word. Every other prayer invokes like 3-7 of Ahura Mahzda's other aspects/lesser divinities like Sraosha. If I didn't have outside context, I'd probably assumed it was polytheistis in the same manner as like Lord of the Rings, where there is one main god who is the creator and ruler with a bunch of lesser gods that have a sphere of influence.
Actual "monotheistic" Zoroastrianism is so mixed up with Iranian mythology, Pre-Achaemenid Median politheism, and other faiths that it's hard to determine basically anything about this religion. And it's dead anyway so yeah XD
@@olekcholewa8171 The bible calls angels and the angel of yhwh gods and demons and human spirits Monotheism, polytheism and henotheism are pretty useless modern terms that can not be used too describe the system of beleif in the bible . Yhwh is essentially the creator high God while " angels " are lesser gods . Created limited spiritual beings
We have the Behistun Inscription which was made by Darius the great who is mentioned in the Hebrew bible. In the inscription he mentions Ahura Mazda 500 years before Jesus lol.
So Paul spoke about eating food sacrificed to false idols he says it's not a sin to eat it as long as you know that the idols it was sacrificed to are false now food is different then clothes since we need food to live, and God created the things we eat as food so since God made it it's good, But God created clothes for Adam and Eve so it may be on equal footing either way I'd say if you have conviction in the act don't ignore the comforter. I'd say pray about it if it bothers you specifically.
Even though the Zoroastrian influence in Judaism/Christianity is a hypothesis from scholars, it is not an unfounded hypothesis. The dualistic interpretations of good and evil in terms of the characterization of Satan is shared with Zoroastrian beliefs in the Book of Daniel, as it is contrasted with the role of Satan as more of a prosecutor for God in the Pentateuch/Job. If Zoroastrianism did not influence Abrahamic religions, it might at the least have been mentioned in the Bible. The Gospel of Matthew also mentions "magi" coming from the East to worship the infant Jesus, and the word "magi" in the Gospel of Matthew derives from a Greek transliteration of a Persian root "magus". Later Christian tradition named them as variations of the names, "Caspar", "Melchior", and "Balthazar" in sources like the Excerpta Latina Barbari. English tradition names them as astrologers, who were notable in Zoroastrian religion, and Melchior is said to have come from Persia.
Yeah, the Christians or Jews who are resistant to this idea feel their religion is being attacked which it isnt. Both sides were influenced by each other. The Jews shared their scriptures with the Persians when Cyrus freed them from Babylon, and Cyrus was friendly to them because they saw each others religions as kindred spirits. Also the reference of the Magi in the Gospels is there by no accident. Its saying something without saying it. Essentially that the Zoroastrians also had the right ideas about the Messiah (Saoshyant) as Isaiah, Daniel, or any other Old Testament prophet, all the way back to the Torah which was pre exile. Also Zoroastrian apocalyptic literature probably predates Daniel and Isaiah and when you read, the imagery and theological similarity is so glaring.
@@paulkickling7828 Exactly. This even more supports the universal truth of the Gospel as described in Acts 17:26-28, "And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, for "'In him we live and move and have our being';as even some of your own poets have said, "'For we are indeed his offspring."
@@user-yh6tt2nu4p haha yes, the Acts 17 having mentions of Greek philosophers, which is why Platonism and many other Greek philosophers like Xenophanes, the Stoics, etc, are practically completely compliant and consistent with Christian theology, hence why Justin Martyr, Aquinas, Augistine, Clement, etc, all used Plato and many other Greek philosophers to exegise Christianity's coherence. Philo who predates Christianity even did so with the Torah and the Old Testament, and obviously thats where John got the word Logos from showing how educated the Apostles were in Greek philosophy and I imagine Egyptian and Persian mysticism we can deduce from the Gospels, but I would also extend it to Buddhism, Jainism and Confucianism. Jesus learning his craft in Egypt as a child is not a coincidence. Also, YHWH said in the Torah, forgot what the verse was, that he came to all nations. This is backed with independent evidence from the Bible because we found a codex to that had similar ideas to that of Mosaic Law with the Hamurabi tablet or whatever it was called. Also why Abraham also saw God in the Babylonian / Sumerian pantheon for he was there as he was in all pantheons. And there is strong archeological evidence that YHWH as a name was first revealed by God to the Midianites who were there to greet Moses when Exodus happened, and God promised Moses more knowledge being revealed about him if he is couragious enough to do what he knows is right just like Jesus in Gethsemane making that difficult choice of to not run away.
@@paulkickling7828 I see what you mean, but I disagree on some points. When it comes to Greek philosophy, even though by the time of Edict of Milan in 313 AD, Greek philosophy dominated Christianity, the Church was very mixed between Christians who liked Hellenistic philosophy and more conservative Christians who didn't before that time. An example of this is Tertullian when he said, "What has Athens to do with Jerusalem?" Most of Christian ethics and theology is strictly Jewish, although you can see that Paul was familiar with Stoicism in Acts 17:28, quoting Aratus. The idea of bodily Resurrection, blood atonement, and baptism date to apocalyptic Judaism and the Biblical interpretation by Christians is very similar to the Pharisees. You can see Philo's influence in John and Hebrews though, I agree with that. Jesus's Apostles were mostly fishermen Galilean Jews, so I don't see them being that influenced by Hellenism much, maybe Philip and Bartholomew. The Church fathers are the main ones that combined Christianity with Hellenism, especially Iraeneus, Justin Martyr, and Origen.
@@user-yh6tt2nu4p oh I dont disagree that the ideas of Christianity are anchored in Judaism. I can point to countless verses from pretty much any of the Wisdom books and Prophet books to show Platonic, Stoic or any other Hellenic philosophies, and I do believe they were developed independently of Greece. Even in the Torah, which Philo did the best in pointing them out. With that being said, Jesus and the Apostles came from the most Hellenized part of Judea. To the point where Hellenic culture was just as rife as Judaic culture. So I would not say the Apostles nor Jesus himself was oblivious to Greek philosophy. Heck, Jesus spent many years in Hellenic Egypt where it says he gained his learning. And he along with the Apostles would not have been oblivious to Hermeticism, Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism or Zoroastrianism for example, since the Greek philosophers were heavily influenced by the Eastern religions (excluding Hermeticism which was a Western Hellenic religion) and this is all well documented by Greek historians at the time of Alexander's empire especially where the East and West really shared their knowledge since being under the same empire. Yes the NT is overwhelmingly Judaic, including Essene Judaism and Merkabah Judaism. But I would also not solely put the Greek influence solely on the Church Fathers, although they were the most outwardly obvious with unlike the NT, but I think we can safely deduce the Apostles and Jesus himself was adept in Hellenic philosophy.
Neo-Platonism is certainly all over Christian Theology and St. Augustine who, let's be honest, pretty much, proposed the historical trajectory of the religion with a beginning and end was an early follower of the Dualistic religion of Manichaeism as well as being quite familiar with Plotinus. If you read through the City of God, and few of us can get through the entire text. There are many many tedious chapters where Augustine spends all his time attacking any and all phiilosophical and theological positions of the ancient world. The boy was truly ANAL! Christianity since it unfolds within the ancient world and becomes appropriated by the Romans eventually, is inextricably intertwined with the ideas of Plato, etc. One can choose to reject this, but it's hard to believe that there was no syncretism between them. Just saying? Now all the apologists can chime in with their nays, lol!
Neo platanism is a philosophy not a theology . Christianity is a mix of western and eastern philosophy after all . You will find dualistic Christians and idealist Christians after all
Yeah Plato's ideas are completely syncretic with Christianity. However, its not like Judaism got the ideas of God just from the Greeks like Plato, Xenophanes or anyone else who spouted similar ideas. I can point to Isaiah, Daniel, Psalms and Solomon's books in having very Platonic ideas. Now you could say Isaiah was influenced by Plato but its not that obvious when you read the text. Zoroastrian influence on Isaiah and Daniel are very obvious, since both of the books are very apocalyptic and apocalyptic literature in Zoroastrianism probably predates Judaic apocalyptic literature.
And .... Zoroaster is the root inspiration for Greek philosophy, the pre-Socratics like Heraclitus, Pythagoras had studied with the Magi, and Plato's two worlds (matter and spirit), the concept of the forms, is clearly Zoroastrian in origin: Menog, Gettig, Asha, etc. Zoroaster is the ultimate father of our whole civilization, both in terms of religion and philosophy. Nietzsche recognized this.
Meh it’s almost a fact. If you study it you’ll find soooo many similarities but to be fair, if you study any religion you’ll find far more similarities then not surprisingly enough.
@@briandiehl9257 Well that’s the arguments. The original Torah started out as pre Babylonia exile writings. They seem to hint at a vague afterlife known as Sheol but don’t ascribe it the characteristics of heaven or hell. It’s not until we get Old Testament writings that we’re probably written during or after the exile that we get a Destiny description of heaven and people like Elijah ascending into heaven (Enoch is taken away by God but nothing in the text describes it like ascending into heaven).
@@obadiahkilgore2964All 5 are obligatory, don’t lie. Or have you confused the ritual with what you are supposed to do in a ritual, for in some of the 5 obligatory daily prayers, only 2 of the Raka’ats are obligatory.
There's no relations. Sumerian is tooo alienates and old. And farrr away. Babylonian is what the tanak is related and copies of of and rebels against and falls to.
The answer is no, since Christianity is a fulfillment rather than a copy. If you hold that zoroastrianism and judaism weren’t split, formed and titled ‘religions’ until the 1500’s- and remember that both the persians and semites who were practicing monotheism following zarathustra/Abraham were being called hanifs/pagans by the mainstream… it’s not hard to find that the two were always linked in arms until hundreds and thousands of years after the fall of the persian empire that helped the monotheistic semites
Of course, Zoroastrianism influenced 2nd Temple Judaism and therefore Christianity. This should shock no one. Many of our doctrines come from Zoroaster: free will, the pre-eminence of morality, personal judgement, the last or general judgement, the apocalyptic renewal of the world, strict monotheism, Satan as a power opposed to God, etc., etc. The three wise men who visited the Christchild were Zoroastrian priests. Zoroaster had a prophecy of a Saoshyant, or world Saviour, whom the wise man recognized as Christ. I believe Zoroaster was a bona fide prophet and Ahura Mazda is the one true God who revealed Himself incarnate in Christ.
Seeing this from a Faith way, I believe Zoroaster was showed the truth by God but he took it wrongly and started interpreting things wrong and heretic way, but it did help with sending back the Jews to judea
@@HangrySaturn Mickey boy once again fails to understand the cult he's in and it's apparent Errors and Falsehoods. The common words in the cultian bible was well known in the 2nd century the platformed his False beliefs system (or cult). And later on too.
"THE MONOTHEIS IT SHOULD BE A SINGLE GREEDY GOD, WHO FELT THEY HAD TO CREATE EVERYTHING, WHICH BESIDES GOOD, IT WAS ALSO THE SOURCE OF EVIL AND EVIL, BUT ALSO MUST BE A HYPOCRITE GOD, BECAUSE THEY ALSO HAVE TO CLAIM THAT THE GHOSTS AND FALLEN ANGELS ARE HIS CREATIONS, BUT ONLY TO BE SLANDERED AS THE CREATORS OF CRIME. ?!
For e ample the word paradise comes from Persian...for muslims it is Firdavs...it is not originated from a semitic word? Lester L. Grabbe scholar of Hebrew Bible and Early Judaism concluded that there is general agreement that Persian religion and tradition had its influence on Judaism over the centuries.
In the bible it states that Cyrus set free the jews to rebuild the temple. His God that have him all the kingdoms on earth told him to do so. Know that his God was Ahura Mazda and his prophet Zoroaster. Hé also gave Ezra the assignment to put the laws (10 commandments) together and to teach these in Jeruzalem. 3 magi ( zoroastrian priests/ astrologers ) came to see Jezus) Baptism is original a zoroastrian practice. The jews never did that. Heaven and Hell are zoroastrian The devil / satan is Ahriman the jews never had a devil This all happened after cyrus freed the jews from Babylon. So yes zoroastrianism is the great influence on jewish/ Christian and islam beliefs
Like the guy said, zoroastrianism probably got these ideas from christianity and Judaism itself instead of the other way around... The devil is a character seen in the book of job, a very old book that predates any possible zoroastrianism influences, and baptism was probably something that zoroastrianism took from both religions aswell.
@@cobalt618Ok why are these heretics(zororastrians) mentioned in the rigveda. Why is the avestan language similar to Vedic sanskrit. We know it through archaeological evidence that Aryans arrived in india after 1900 bce. From then the mixing with languages began. The indo Iranians are 100% andronovo descended considering the Scythians spoke an Iranic language. So the point is the closer avestan is with sanskrit the older it gets. As with time languages start to diverge. Not to forget Rigveda mentions these sorcerers and also mentions them losing to the true aryans
@@cobalt618Not to forget they call the devil angra manyu. Which obviously is a stupid thing to say. For in rigveda 10.83.2 it says "Manyu is Indra; Manyu verily was a god; Manyu is the sacrificing priest (Agni), the omniscient Varuṇa;the people who are of human descent, praise Manyu; protect us, Manyu, well plural ased along with Tapas" So it cannot be that manyu is not older than job. Israelites don't compare to the Aryans who have strict oral tradition dating back thousands of yrs
I love how they always assume the influence goes (religion X)-->Christianity, but they never consider the possibility of Christianity--->(religion X) 🤦🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
Hey guys what does John 5:26 mean when it says the Father granted the Son to have life in himself? JW use this verse to prove God created Jesus, is this referring to his human vessel?
Read the lecture that Augustine gave, this verse follows the Trinitarian logic of eternal generation (I.e the Son is coeternal but finds his life “or essence” in the Father, who is the sole asei being).
Iirc, Zoroastrianism was influenced by certain Jews during the Babylonian exile and the Magians who visited Jesus may have been students of that court that Daniel influenced
Yeah, the Christians or Jews who are resistant to this idea feel their religion is being attacked which it isnt. Both sides were influenced by each other. The Jews shared their scriptures with the Persians when Cyrus freed them from Babylon, and Cyrus was friendly to them because they saw each others religions as kindred spirits. Also the reference of the Magi in the Gospels is there by no accident. Its saying something without saying it. Essentially that the Zoroastrians also had the right ideas about the Messiah (Saoshyant) as Isaiah, Daniel, or any other Old Testament prophet, all the way back to the Torah which was pre exile. Also Zoroastrian apocalyptic literature probably predates Daniel and Isaiah and when you read, the imagery and theological similarity is so glaring.
@@paulkickling7828 you misapprehend what I'm saying. As per Daniel he was placed high in the court over the magicians, astrologers, prognosticators, et al, in Babylon. That is, he was put in charge of, among others, the Zoroastrians of his day. Those Magians would have learned *from* what Daniel taught about accurate prophetic signs of the coming Messiah, and bc the Babylonian Magians valued such astronomical signs, they were looking for it with the accuracy they learned from Daniel, and were able to send representatives to pay homage at the right time, in contrast to the hardened priests and Herod, who weren't paying attention
Cyrus the Great was into Zoroastrianism and worshipped Marduk but God Jehovah said He used Cyrus to free the Isrealites to rebuild the temple...but why was Cyrus worshipping Marduk instead of yahweh...look up Cyrus Cylinder
God can use people who don't believe in Him. God is said to have called the Assyrians down on the Kingdom of Israel when they broke their covenant with Him. Then, He used the Israelite campaign and their behavior during it as the justification for passing judgment on the Assyrians. Being used by God doesn't imply that you are Godly or that you are free from either praise or punishment based on your own moral responsibility. God didn't forcibly convert Cyrus to Yawism or bodily possess him like a mindless puppet. I mean, it's always the atheists and neopagans making the point (against a strawman) that non-Christians are capable of doing good things. Here, God put a powerful pagan ruler in place to do something good for the people of God, and he is remembered favorably among pagans by the Bible. I don't see a contradiction here. So, he credited his pagan god. That's what we should expect a pagan to do.
@@jameswoodard4304 I just find it strange for Yahweh to claim Cyrus the Great when Cyrus is giving Marduk his God all the glory for his accomplishments what he did and I thought Jehovah God was a jealous God not to worship other gods and Cyrus the Great worshipped another God
@@dodgecityrecords4685 as part of his empire building, Cyrus tended to frame his conquests as the will of the gods of the nations he conquered, and this is especially true in Babylonia. The final king of Babylon, Nabonidus, was a devoted follower of the moon god Sin, to the supposed neglect of all other gods, including the king of the gods, Marduk. (Think of him as a rough Babylonian equivalent of Akhenaten.) He spent much of his reign going on pilgrimages in Northern Arabia, and leaving his son Belshazzar more or less in charge of Babylon. During the war with Cyrus, he had the idols of many gods removed from their local temples in surrounding towns and moved to Babylon. Many people interpreted that as an insult to the gods, by exiling them from their homes (he had probably done such to protect the idols from destruction). When Cyrus conquered Babylonia and marched into Babylon in triumph, he framed his conquest as the will of Marduk, to rid Babylon of the neglectful and sacrilegious Nabonidus and replace him with a king who would give the king of the gods his rightful respect. This served to endear him to the Babylonians and to earn their loyalty and submission.
@dodgecityrecords4685 , Think of it this way, YHWH claims to be the universal Deity that governs over everything, including those who don't believe and have even never heard of Him, right? I assume we are on the same page, and can agree that that is the claim, correct? YHWH *is* the God over Cyrus, regardless of what Cyrus believes, just like He is the God that provides rain over India regardless of what Hindus (including both good and bad people) believe. He is holding every subatomic partical and galaxy together by His own will, and overseeing the lives of billions of individual human beings at once (while still taking their free will into account), the majority of whom don't believe He even exists. So when *any* good is brought about in the world, He is the ultimate source of it, regardless of what people involved believe. Think of it this way, God claimed to have a leading hand in bringing the Assyrian Emperor Sennacherib into Israel as a judgment, right? Sennacherib worshipped Asshur. So, why would God be able to use a pagan ruler to bring destruction on Israel, but not be able to use a different pagan ruler to bring blessing? God is not limited by people's false beliefs. Is His rule as the universal Deity geographically and personally restricted based on the religion of the people? No. He "gives rain on the just and the unjust." The animistic herdsman on the high plains of Inner Mongolia has Him to thank for the well-being of his herd and for every breath that he breaths even if he had never heard of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. This would not cease to be the case simply because we find his diary in which he gives all the glory to Tengri. God is "jealous" over those who believe in Him and have a relationship with Him. The idea of God's jealousy in the Bible is the picture of a dutiful husband who becomes angry if his wife is caught sleeping around. He is, then, justifiably outraged. There can be no room in the "marriage" for any other man sleeping with His beloved wife. But Cyrus is not part of the "bride." If God was unable to work through or among people simply because they don't believe in Him, then the vast majority of the planet (not to mention the cosmos) would simply cease to exist.
The Jews adapted their eschatology to what was commonly accepted at the time. In the exodus they adapted their eschatology with what was common in the ANE. When the Persians conquered and the Persian State Religion of Zoroastrianism became commonly accepted the Jews adapted to their spiritual duality and resurrection eschatology. This exploded within Judaism in the intertestamental period. The Jews never explicitly promoted an afterlife, they just modified what was common to fit the Jewish paradigm.
there's no exodus that's mytho fiction of their late to post ancient fantasy almost mideval and second Jews are nowhere near ane Beleif with their apostasy and rebellion with their false lone god idol Yahweh.
"While the Aleppo Codex is the oldest Hebrew Bible, the Leningrad Codex is the oldest complete Hebrew Bible. The Leningrad Codex dates to 1008 C.E." Tell your fans the truth IP.
"oldest complete Hebrew Bible", we still have fragments of the Hebrew Bible from hundreds of years before the zen avesta was compiled and they teach the same thing bibles today teach, also did you bother to check if the zen avesta IP mentioned was a complete book or a fragment?
@@Wicked_Weavile0808 Wrong. The Dead Sea Scrolls do not agree with the Masoretic text entirely in some cases yes in others no. The DSS also agree with the non-Masoretic LXX the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible that the NT authors quote from almost exclusively. Apologetics is a mile wide and an inch deep.
@@tgrogan6049 who said anything about the dead sea scrolls, we have bibles from before the zen avesta was compiled, and the oldest complete Hebrew Bible is still centuries earlier then the earliest zen avesta
@@paulkickling7828 no, they aren't. Judaism and Christianity don't worship the sun, moon, and stars. They recognize them as creation. In their true forms, neither one practices astrology, they don't worship constellations, they don't do horoscopes, etc. Their whole systems of belief do not align.
@@paulkickling7828 Also, no, neither one was influenced by zoroastrianism, it was not the first monotheistic religion. It influenced Islam, but not the other 2. The Hebrew religion started before Noah, but let's just use Noah as a reference because some sources say Judaism started with Abraham, which cannot be true because Noah is Abraham's great great great (maybe more) grandfather, and Noah believed in the same God. The flood was about 2350 BC, Noah was living for a while already. Abraham was born around 2166 BC. Christianity comes from the Hebrew religion, it's just a continuation, so it has the same origins. The Old Testament is the Torah, the prophets, psalms, minor prophets, etc from the Hebrew religion. Zarathustra aka Zoroaster, the founder of zoroastrianism, was born between 1500 BC to 1000 BC, and some sources say the religion only dates back to 6th century BC, which is even newer. Therefore, it's ridiculous to say zoroastrianism was first when Noah was walking around 1,000 years before Zoroaster, and Abraham was at least 600 years before Zoroaster.
@@PM4K never said they worship the sun, moon or stars LOL. All ancient religions are related to astrology. This is a fact. RELATED DOES NOT MEAN WORSHIP. Get it right homie. You want evidence? Go look up all the churches and synagogues, and the temples of every religion and they have an astrological chart within them. In fact in Sumeria and Babylon where Abraham came from. You can look in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Astrology is everywhere and in the Bible. In fact the story the stars are telling are the same as the Bible. You would know this if you knew anything about mysticism which you clearly don't.
It's not. Cana'anites influenced refute hebraism theology wise post and co ancient at its start. Yahweh using El word and Elah Horned altars Yeastless sacrifices Bread without yeast Stone priests Sabbath day Saturday rest And much more are Canaanite customs and religious practices during after and before Yahweh was made up in post ancient times.
@@HangrySaturn indeed thank you Canaanites are Semitic while Zoroastrians are Eurasians. That's just sensationalism of people today who are not very well clear because of other beliefs not being the conquering or dominant ones yet.
According to the Bible, Cyrus the Great, king of the Achaemenid Empire, was the monarch who ended the Babylonian captivity. In the first year of his reign he was prompted by God to decree that the Temple in Jerusalem should be rebuilt and that Jews who wished to could return to their homeland for this purpose.... The God of Cyrus the Great is Ahura Mazda.
@@loreman7267 wrong Alexander loathed Zoroastrianism probably out of spite of hating the Persians as did the Greek populice. But the philosophers who accompinied him did not.
Yeah, the Christians or Jews who are resistant to this idea feel their religion is being attacked which it isnt. Both sides were influenced by each other. The Jews shared their scriptures with the Persians when Cyrus freed them from Babylon, and Cyrus was friendly to them because they saw each others religions as kindred spirits. Also the reference of the Magi in the Gospels is there by no accident. Its saying something without saying it. Essentially that the Zoroastrians also had the right ideas about the Messiah (Saoshyant) as Isaiah, Daniel, or any other Old Testament prophet, all the way back to the Torah which was pre exile. Also Zoroastrian apocalyptic literature probably predates Daniel and Isaiah and when you read, the imagery and theological similarity is so glaring.
No you're actually absolutely wrong it's not a belief in a good got It bad God it's a good God who fights off a devil monster of Destruction who gets destroyed in the end and actually is a dualistic figure that you guys want to be but you can't reach. And how you view your Satan in Jesus actually is in fact a later idea which is not the original way the Christians thought about it you guys are apostates to the original Christians thought of a duelist pattern too and the first three to four or five centuries they viewed Satan and Jesus as father and son and as puppets and that Satan can actually challenge yahweh in lots of cases. You better change your way because it's not what the original Christians thought and you guys are a prostate so like all Christians today not just the colts of the k but all you guys are apostates the original Christians who thought in a very dualistic pattern which is exactly from zero astronomy and copying off it as well as Hellenic mystery Faith parody downfall error which cultianity is.
Anti theists: "CHRISTIANITY COMES FROM PAGANISM!!!"
Scholars and historians (most who study on this topic who are atheist or agnostic): "No."
Exactly. That is why TikTok is such a bad thing, and people who believe everything they see/hear on TikTok should be penalized for stupidity.
@@Panwere36 These anti theists shouldn’t trust everything they see on TikTok. Just because someone say it’s true doesn’t mean it is
@@deejaythedeejay, exactly.. but they do. They trust what panders to them and what they already want to believe.
No, it's pretty much the scholarly consensus
@@Stinky97000 which scholars do you believe then?
Well, at least she didnt mention aliens.
Because William Shakespeare, Abraham Lincoln, Enki, Enlil, and Nikola Tesla haven't approached her with Billy Carson and force fed her the psychedelic fruit and bugs.
christian weirdos will
The bar is in hell 😂
Aliens would have been cooler
Yea aliens would have been great would have highlighted her stupidity said the talking snake 🐍
The origins of Zoroastrianism and how far back do its roots really go is unclear and debated among scholars. Some suggest Zarathustra himself lived as far back as 2000 BC while others claim he only lived as recently as 400 BC, long after the Israelite monotheism had been on the scene for a while. So making any sort of arguments attempting to argue Judaism was influenced by Zoroastrianism is bound to be on a very shaky foundation.
Exactly. So many of the written texts were lost (I believe due to Alexander) that it's hard to say for certain when parts emerged.
Additionally, the beliefs of Judaism and Christianity allow for other cultures to have glimpses of the Truth even if they didn't have it in full. It's entirely possible that some groups came very close while still lacking other areas.
Right, it is believed that Cyrus the Great and his family line were Zoroastrians. That it had a lot in common with Judaism and thus he was disposed to view them with favor. Freeing them and restoring their temple and treasure.
@@ElessarofGondor It is quite possible that the influence was the other way around, that is, the Persians were influenced by the Jews and their religion while they lived as exiles in Babylon.
Alternatively, I am open to the idea that Zarathustra himself may have had a divine encounter with God, who revealed himself to him under a different name. The qualities ascribed to Ahura Mazda (which literally means "Lord of Wisdom") certainly are quite similar to how Yahweh is described in the Bible.
From what I understand, the suggested influence of Zoroastrianism on Judaism would have occurred pretty late, so that's no impediment. This would not mean it was a trivial influence though, far from it.
what's not generally controversial is that 1. Cyrus the great, who ended the babylonian exile, used Zoroastrianism as the state religion and 2. the first explicit statement of monotheism ("there are no other gods" rather than "don't worship other gods before me") is in 2 Isaiah, which was written during or after the babylonian exile. It's notable that Isaiah says Cyrus was annointed by God and Cyrus is praised beyond almost any other monarch in the bible
I prefer zoroastrian Iran then I do Islamic Iran it would be a much better world
Zoroastrianism is a very cool belief system and it would be cool to see Iran return to its traditional culture
As a half Iranian I agree aswel as my dad who is full iranian born and raised hates Arab dictators took over Iran
The death of Zoroastrianism which was a direct result of the Islamic conquests is pretty tragic. It's quite clearly a much more superior and peaceful religion than Islam will ever be.
Thank you! To quote the Avesta "May a good ruler, man or woman, rule over us!"
As a Christian, I really like Zoroastrianism. It's a beautiful belief system. It's also widely speculated that the Wise Men or Magi that visited Jesus when He was a baby were Zoroastrians. I don't know if it's true, but nonetheless, it's sad that Iran is under the dark rainy cloud that is Islam... Regardless of our beliefs, we must grieve that Zoroastrianism was replaced by the satanic revelations of prophet Momo (Police be upon him).
What would life be without all those young tik tok scholars 😂
yeah Michael Jones is basically a tiktok scholar
Devoid of ignorance for one thing.
@@rorke6092 But he is factual, others are fake scholars.
Ya gotta give it to iran: they kept a lot of their traditions and cultural heritage under the steamroller that was Islam.
One of the greatest sins Islam has committed throughout its history (not intentionally mind you) was its bastardly homogenizing of all the middle eastern cultures, ethnic group, art and myths. All that made some of those nations unique and distinct were bulldozed and replaced with a giant prayer carpet.
Iran and Iraq kept some of its identity, its sense of self. I respect them greatly for that.
Ya once found a Jordan Peterson fan who tried arguing this. He simultaneously argued all religions are the same but Zoroastrianism is better and the true source of wisdom that Christianity borrowed from
Any half decent psychologist would immediately call out the Dunning Kruger effect that this fan is experiencing.
@@martytu20 I thought it was just resentment toward the faith/culture he was brought up in but that might be a factor too
And he's actually quite right on that. Religions part no but cultianity is theft and rebellion and cult imitation.
@@martytu20really because Michael Jones actually discovered Jenny Krueger effect as well just like you guys are doing dunning-kruger effect that's called irony and hypocrisy.
@@charliejackson5492 no, I listened to Peterson for years and have a pretty good grasp on what he has to say. Unlike Peterson I’ve gone out of my way to study a variety of topics and see how he gets them dangerously wrong. It’s not even my “expertise” it’s the expertise of others who I’ve read and agree with
During the long period of often extremely violent interaction and competition between the officially-Christian Byzantine and officially-Zoroastrian Sassanian Persian Empires, religion was a big point of conflict. Yet, there were far more Christians in the Persian Empire than Zoroastrians in the Byzantine.
Given the fact that, while we know the Christian Scriptures were firmly settled well before this period, the Zoroastrian scriptures were still changing and developing during this time of exchange, it seems considerably more likely that Christianity had more of an influence on Zoroastrianism than the reverse.
Also, unlike the Christian empire's many attemps, the Islamic Caliphate succeeded in completely overcoming and replacing the Zoroastrian Persian Empire. If, as the above-quoted works claim, there were still key ideas entering into Zoroastrian thought even into the 9th-Century, it seems likely that Islam would be a big part of that influence. The question remains, how much did Zoroastrianism influence Islam?
This is all exacerbated by the fact that the Zoroastrian scriptures that come down to us are not only in very late manuscrips, but the ancient corpus itself is largely lost. The remaining texts written in Avestan (the ancient languange of Zoroastrianism's founding, thus the oldest layer) are relative scraps of a much larger whole, most of which has been lost. Imagine if what we had of the Bible today were only Medieval copies of the book of Leviticus and a chunk of the Psalms, and then several layers of traditional non-prophetically-uttered material compiled many centuries later than the lost formative texts. Basically, it would be nearly impossible to determine what the religion actually looked like in its classical (in this case, Avestan) form and how it had been influenced over time.
As I said, there is more room for speculation regarding the impact of Zoroastrian influence on Islam, though that of Judaism and Christianity must have been far greater; there are questions as to the influence of the Persian religion on the development of Judaism, but the vague timeline and information we have of early Zoroastrianism leave this almost a moot point of mere speculation; yet the idea that Zoroastrianism had a key impact on the development of Christianity seems unlikely, unless you assume the unprovable assertion that it fundamentally influenced Judaism first, and thereby Christianity.
The fact that even a very rough time-frame for the supposed life of Zarathustra himself is not forthcoming, it could as easily be argued that early Hebrew prophets had an influence on Indo-Iranian thought, or that any similarities are due to some kind of shared ideological millieu rather than direct borrowing.
Thank you for the time you took the write this, this was very interesting and informative! In particular your comparison of what we have left of the Zoroastrian scriptures being the equivalent of if all that was left of the Bible were medieval copies of parts of Leviticus and the Psalms is very eye opening.
Wow this was informative thanks 👍
Woah that's false you are very confused first off Christianity Bible was still still developing in the 6th and 7th centuries and your so called canon has changes and completes in the texts and additionals and take aways and word fixing and spelling changes in the koine and much more.
But the best time ever had was not ever changing it had to be a few fixed up because of the fact it was consistently hard to keep around because of Islamic persecution and Christians kept it well into attacked all the way to the 6th century CE.
U are quite ignorant and not learned on this subject. There weren't that many Christians in the sassinid Kingdom as byzantine as you wannasay. And also you need to consider that heaven and hell and Angela and devils that cultianity didn't have took on lots of power from Zoroastrians centuries on even in the first 2 centuries CE and third even when there was ideas and views that colored Christian occult book Bible.
The copies you stated you know little of those are products of rendition and fix up from 2nd Century CE which prior to the Christian Bible even penned up and we know now your unholy book occult piece Bible is later than the 2nd and even third with lots to all its pieces post dating 2nd and 3rd centuries.
And you are ignorant of zoroastrian zoroaster his time was or is now placed properly to 1500 - 1100 BCE not 2000 though good but not 600 BCE either now. Pictures from Western misunderstandings or westernization misunderstanding of the text and have biases and checking and not actually reading from it assuming are instead of actually trusting you to trustworthiness of the traditions and the facts and text in the background and proof from Zoroastrian sources themselves.
Your Hebrew prophets are laughably false and it's actually lots of error in misunderstanding of the text and dates of them as well as the day I actually got their monotheism from Celestial so actually you got it backwards and from Babylonian monotheism of MRDK @@legodavid9260
Except all of what you described is completely backwards and owes more to apologetics than scholarship. The oldest layers of the Hebrew Bible paint a very different picture of Yahweh, and he resembles a member of the Canaanite pantheon up until the exile. 2nd Isaiah, the part that refers to Cyrus the Great Zoroastrian king as Messiah, kickstarts the Persianization of Israelite religion. Post exile, the Jews suddenly become monotheistic, adopting a radically different picture of God that more closely resembles Ahura Mazda in the Gathas of Zoroaster. Belief in angels, resurrection, and final judgment also appears in the branch of Judaism that became Christianity and Rabbinical Judaism. (The Christian NT tells us the Sadducees believed in neither angels nor the resurrection.) This is why, based on the evidence, there's nothing that would suggest the influence flowed the other way. This is why the consensus of scholars is what it is.
Just a small correction, the Zend/Zand is the Pahlavi translation of the Avesta with commentary. So it's more correct to just use Avesta as a term.
Also his dating system is pathetically wrong he's using one part which actually is in fact a copy of a copy of I think his understanding might be is Michael Say the original Bible for the Christianity is the KJv or mideval Vulgate. He doesn't realize how stupid he is.
Remember those Good Old Days when the Persians saved Jews first (Cyrus) and then the Christians (For a short period before Constantine legalized it)
Also, I'm disappointed with the 20th Anniversary of Fate Stay Night
A lot of historical figures are not yet added
I've been interested in the fate series,but I have no idea where to start with it
@@Wicked_Weavile0808Start with Fate Zero
Then, watch the three routes of Fate Stay Night (The first one's adaptation quality is kinda poor)
Then, go with Apocrypha (This is not for religious snowflakes btw who get offended over minor discrepancies)
Play the Fate Grand Order game
Juddaisim is older is zorastnisim
It’s possible that the three magi that visited Christ at His birth were Zoroastrian priests.. & I don’t know how old this belief is, or if it was influenced by other religions, but Zoroastrians believe in a savior called the Saoshyant who would end all evil and bring about the final renovation of the cosmos. Perhaps they were looking for Him.. & found Him. 👀
That was actually 100% real and authentic. They were magi (zoroastrian priests)
Yeah, the Christians or Jews who are resistant to this idea feel their religion is being attacked which it isnt. Both sides were influenced by each other. The Jews shared their scriptures with the Persians when Cyrus freed them from Babylon, and Cyrus was friendly to them because they saw each others religions as kindred spirits. Also the reference of the Magi in the Gospels is there by no accident. Its saying something without saying it. Essentially that the Zoroastrians also had the right ideas about the Messiah (Saoshyant) as Isaiah, Daniel, or any other Old Testament prophet, all the way back to the Torah which was pre exile. Also Zoroastrian apocalyptic literature probably predates Daniel and Isaiah and when you read, the imagery and theological similarity is so glaring.
So? How is them being Zoroastrian priests a proof that Zoroastrianism influenced Christianity?
That's as stupid as saying that because Pontius Pilatus let Jesus into the hands of Jews, Christianity was influenced by Roman Paganism.
@@paulkickling7828
Similarity does not mean anything!!! It is one thing to be similar to the truth and a complete other thing to be the truth, zoroastrianism is satanism.
@salomonkalou9002 you really dont know how the bible works right in its subtext? Go learn a thing or two 🤓
If Christianity copied Zoroastrianism then Da Vinci clearly copied my final project in art class.
😂😂😂
Judaism copied Zoroastrianism, which then developed Christianity.
@@arman_1024no, Zoroastrianism was edited overtime, and their earliest manuscript comes 1,000 years after Christ
@@Ezralibrascale I’m not talking about the late antiquity Zend Avesta, which everyone agrees was influenced by Christianity; I’m talking about the classical antiquity Gathas and Yasna. The oral tradition of ancient Zoroastrianism influenced both Greek philosophy and Judaism, and the changed to Judaism were fundamental.
@@arman_1024
It is one thing to be similar to the truth and completely other to be the truth, zoroastrianism is satanism.
Zororastreans definitely influenced islam, buraq, the horsedonkey thing mo supposedly rode is a copy and paste from their scripture
Abrahamism is older than Zoroastrianism
Zorastrian was born in Balkh, currently Afghanistan
So not Iran
@@itsnevertoolatetodotherigh3271Iran and Afghan then back.
Its strange that faithful are so willing to see other religions being altered and changed in order to keep the people believing but refuse to believe the possibility that their faith is just as falsely based.
When a woman looks at you like this, prepare for some pious womansplaining.
Yeah the "um, actually" face.
😂@@spinlok3943
Ugh that stupid smug face like “you’re all so dumb. I’m only 20 and I watched a tiktok about how all you believe is fake. There’s so many religions. Everyone believed in Hod so there clearly isn’t one. There’s no dna of Christ so he clearly wasn’t real. There’s no “contemporary copies of the Bible so it clearly is fake. Y’all just never do any research and go along with whatever you’re told.” The projecting is nuts. I’m so tired of the same dumbahh arguments that they could disprove themselves with a single search.
Good response. Also, you might like some of Gad Barnea’s work on the history of Zoroastrianism in regards to Yahwism, though I do disagree with him from time to time.
Michael, I'd just like to thank you for making these daily shorts that provide us knowledge and information. I actually feel like I've learned more from watching your videos and shorts than I did in most of my school career. I just have a question though, either from you or someone kind enough in the comments. I'd like to get into researching and being able to provide actual credible sources and being able to survive in arguments with other people, what would be a good place to start? Thank you in advance and God bless!
It blew my mind when i discovered that the Avesta just contains all the available literature we have in the Older and Younger Avestan languages. So the "canon" is actually based on whether they're written in those languages.
it's hardly speculative, have you heard of the babylonian exile or 3 wise men? Or dualism? Or monotheism?
Yeah, the Christians or Jews who are resistant to this idea feel their religion is being attacked which it isnt. Both sides were influenced by each other. The Jews shared their scriptures with the Persians when Cyrus freed them from Babylon, and Cyrus was friendly to them because they saw each others religions as kindred spirits. Also the reference of the Magi in the Gospels is there by no accident. Its saying something without saying it. Essentially that the Zoroastrians also had the right ideas about the Messiah (Saoshyant) as Isaiah, Daniel, or any other Old Testament prophet, all the way back to the Torah which was pre exile.
Jesus died for us, so that if we put our faith and trust in him we will not perish but have eternal life ❤
Yeah you can definitely see someone randomly coming across this hypothesis about Zoroastrianism having influence on the Abrahamic faiths and then immediately making some tik tock video people might believe 🤔.
There is no such thing as abrahamic faith. Abraham worshipped The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit, not false gods.
It's facts not hypothesis. The points are all over the place here. No way to ignore unless youre brainwashed like Michael trained lie and twist and deflect whenever facts are brought.
The arguments of Michael or hypothesis best considering your own false beliefs or hypothesis they have no foundation or standing spiritually historically textually and are much later and weaker than they really are in fact way weaker. And the Jesus guy Christ more fake and fraud than you want to believe in contradicts himself and John has no power than you been told.
That sounds emotional your response is. Not factoral.
@@salomonkalou9002 Abraham knew nothing of the Trinity though. So no, he did not worship "The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit".
@@HangrySaturn He actually worshipped exactly The Trinity!!!!!!
Her statement was that there is a religion that may have impacted the Abraham religion, and if it was a religion around at that time, it probably did have some impact means it had an impact. It’s not saying that it was copied or anything like that basically anything that exist time and place you will have an impact on you, it doesn’t mean that it controls you or influences the direction you’re going but it will impact you because that’s how reality works. Islam and atheist existing in America has impacted Christianity in America. It’s not saying it makes Christianity illegal but it has definitely had an impact like the Bible is no longer part of American culture as it always was. The bible is no longer really in public tax funded places like schools anymore, so you have to understand the meaning of impact, and then what she says, actually seems fair and reasonable of a statement. so anything that exist alongside something else will have an impact on it that’s just how things work. What the impact was would be the question to ask.
Abraham came from Ur of the Chaldees which many scholars believe refers to the ancient city of Ur in Sumer, located in the southern part of Mesopotamia, in modern-day Iraq somewhere in the year 2000 BC.
Zoroaster (or Zarathustra), who is thought to have lived in the early part of the 1st millennium BCE, possibly around 6th century BCE. This timeline and geographical origin place Zoroastrianism considerably later and eastward compared to the Sumerian civilization that Abraham was from.
The 2 civilizations would have encountered each other during the Babylonian exile. While it is thought that The Persians may have influenced the Hebrews during this time, it is possible that the alternative is true as documented in the Book of Daniel, where Daniel became respected by the Magi with his ability to interpret dreams.
You then see the importance of Daniel on the Magi when their caste was aware of Jewish prophesy. The most notable of these is the prophecy of the "seventy weeks" found in Daniel 9:24-27.
Seventy Weeks: The seventy weeks are often understood as a symbolic period of time, totaling 490 years (with each week representing seven years).
Messiah's Coming: The prophecy mentions that after 69 weeks (or 483 years), an anointed one (Messiah) will come. This has been interpreted by many Christian theologians as a prediction of the coming of Jesus Christ.
The Timeline: The starting point for this prophecy is often debated, but it's commonly associated with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, which some link to the decree of Artaxerxes I in 457 BC or 444 BC. Counting 483 years from these points leads to a date in the 1st century AD, around the time of Jesus' ministry.
It seems that the Magi respected Daniel enough to keep track of his prophesy.
This prophecy, delivered by the angel Gabriel, speaks of a period of "seventy weeks of years" (or 490 years) that are decreed for the people of Israel and the holy city of Jerusalem.
If one believes the the Bible was written pre exile, then this hypothesis makes sense.
If one believes it was written during exile, then the influence is possible but still not definitive in that their writings could have been polemics against the Persian religions they encountered.
I'm pretty sure she was implying that Zoroastrianism influenced the *development* , and thus fundamental character, of the Abrahamic faiths, not that they merely had to have cultural and historical intercourse with each other. If the latter is what she were talking about, than her point would be so obvious and universal not to be worth making. I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt that, "these religions happened to exist at the same time and were aware of each other," isn't the point she's arguing for.
@@jameswoodard4304but an issue with this is that judaism is older then the exile, and so was the monotheistic ideas in judaism, so either way i dont think Zoroastrianism did much with judaism, considering also how the writings of the old and new testament were very carefully kept the same
@@jameswoodard4304 In fairness the short clip we have only shows her introduce the word, it doesn't really tell us anything about her claims or sources. If the article was done as a documentary style on what Zoroastrism was then it could have been done in a respectful way to other religions. We'd need to see the whole video to know.
@dudd4171 ,
I agree. Some people argue erroneously that essentially all of the Hebrew Bible was written post-exile, but they only do so by ignoring textual and linguistic evidence to the contrary and because they assume that accurate prophecy can only be accounted for by faking it after the fact.
The real problem keeping us from cutting off discussion of Z influencing the formation of Judaism is that the dates for Zarathustra are all over the place. They can't decide if their prophet lived in 2000BC or 400BC, so it's impossible to prove anything either way by means of the timeline.
But yes, the burden of evidence would really be on them to show that Z influenced Judaism rather than on us having to show that it didn't.
I think it's pretty clear Zoroastrianism influenced Islam but highly doubtful it impacted Christianity and/or Judaism
NOOO nunnhhh ahhh it didn't christianity too and Judaism especially the persian period and later. Macabeees and enoch and Christian bible all have Zoroastrian influence.
Why do you think zoroastrianism influenced islam?
Perry Robinson also has a very good online slideshow that breaks this down. I recommend anyone give it a search.
Can i just make a recommendation ?.
When citing sources . Can you cite their qualifications ? For new followers of the channel and also refer to them as Dr to respect their expertise .
Freddy Mercury is my favorite Zoroastrian for his immaculate music. My second is Cyrus the Great for freeing the Jews from the Babylonian Captivity, and being an overall benevolent emperor. I’d much prefer a Zoroastrian Iran than what we have now.
I thought Freddie left his faith?
Amen! I'm thankful you do these vieos.
As a muslim i agree. In torah,bible and the last revelation Quran we have the same prophets wich are like wayyyyy older than zoroastrianism. I mean a random girl saying zoroastrianism influenced abrahamics? it sounds to me that abrahamics influenced zoroastrianism💀
Zoroastrianism is the oldest still used religion tho. Was huge in the first persian empires. It definitly influenced christians and jews and muslims which we can see today in the persian new year celebrated by muslimsnin iran for example. The question is what it influenced
Ita Hinduism not Zoroastrianism
@@Shiva-nx1tn yes sorry. Oldest monotheistic*
Wasn't Cyrus a Zoroastrian? And I've heard that the 'wise men' or magi were Zoroastrian, as well...
Yeah, the Christians or Jews who are resistant to this idea feel their religion is being attacked which it isnt. Both sides were influenced by each other. The Jews shared their scriptures with the Persians when Cyrus freed them from Babylon, and Cyrus was friendly to them because they saw each others religions as kindred spirits. Also the reference of the Magi in the Gospels is there by no accident. Its saying something without saying it. Essentially that the Zoroastrians also had the right ideas about the Messiah (Saoshyant) as Isaiah, Daniel, or any other Old Testament prophet, all the way back to the Torah which was pre exile. Also Zoroastrian apocalyptic literature probably predates Daniel and Isaiah and when you read, the imagery and theological similarity is so glaring.
Cyrus yes but magi men nooo. There's no proof of that it's sheer invention of today.
@charliejackson5492 lol how is it a modern invention? In the original Greek the Persian word "magi" is used. The only reason to use that word is to specify Zoroastrian priests, not Rabbis, Zoroastrian priests.
@@paulkickling7828 no one said rabbis.
It is modern day guess it's Zoroastrian. The word magi meaning kings or Wisemen no explanation of religion or belief. Simply not there no where to Zoroastrians.
@charliejackson5492 dude BACK THEN THE MEANING, not what it was later interpreted as meaning in the context. The only context AT THAT TIME to use that word is a Zoroastrian priest, since thats the only place that word was used and what it referred to. And also coupled with "from the east" whats east of Israel? Want to remind me? Babylon? And who controlled Babylon at this time?
Hey Michael cab you make a video talking about the topic on adam and eve being from six thousand years ago
Interesting. Ive seen Yezidis (who are syncretistic with strong roots in zoroastrian tradition,) kiss church doorsteps and other holy buildings.
Yes the Yezidis are an Abrahamic religion that is also practically an Zarathustrian religion. Yezidis worship the monotheistic one God througg Archangel Michael essentially who they call Melek Taus (note the Taus and Torah, or even the chinese Tao, all meaning to split into two, hence why Torus comes after Aries the Ram / Lamb, and the bull splits them into two (Gemini)). This is the same story as Mithras being charged by the bull but he overcame. In Christianity, the bull are the Romans and Israelite priests wanting to end him but he overcame by getting immortal life.
I will say, what little of the Zoroastrian texts I've read, its Monotheistic in the most meaningless sense of the word. Every other prayer invokes like 3-7 of Ahura Mahzda's other aspects/lesser divinities like Sraosha.
If I didn't have outside context, I'd probably assumed it was polytheistis in the same manner as like Lord of the Rings, where there is one main god who is the creator and ruler with a bunch of lesser gods that have a sphere of influence.
I think the term you're looking for is Henotheistic.
Sort of like one God surrounded by angels and cherubim in a Heavenly Council.
@@501MobiusThe problem is that neither Jews nor Christians consider angels to be other Gods.
Actual "monotheistic" Zoroastrianism is so mixed up with Iranian mythology, Pre-Achaemenid Median politheism, and other faiths that it's hard to determine basically anything about this religion. And it's dead anyway so yeah XD
@@olekcholewa8171
The bible calls angels and the angel of yhwh gods and demons and human spirits
Monotheism, polytheism and henotheism are pretty useless modern terms that can not be used too describe the system of beleif in the bible .
Yhwh is essentially the creator high God while " angels " are lesser gods . Created limited spiritual beings
Also i think it make sense....Adam was taught by God...and Adam wanted his offspring to know god...that's why many religion have similarities.
We have the Behistun Inscription which was made by Darius the great who is mentioned in the Hebrew bible. In the inscription he mentions Ahura Mazda 500 years before Jesus lol.
Abraham 1800Bce
@@user-vs7gv4cn8o give me a citation of an archaeological artifact that corroborates Abraham being from that time period that is outside of Tanakh.
It gave us Freddie Mercury. Can’t be bad…
Well, they probably provided the Magi, so they did enter the picture.
Cyrus was earlier.
Is it a sin to wear Nike since it is named after the Greek goddess of victory Nike?
So Paul spoke about eating food sacrificed to false idols he says it's not a sin to eat it as long as you know that the idols it was sacrificed to are false now food is different then clothes since we need food to live, and God created the things we eat as food so since God made it it's good, But God created clothes for Adam and Eve so it may be on equal footing either way I'd say if you have conviction in the act don't ignore the comforter. I'd say pray about it if it bothers you specifically.
Keep kicking ass IP!
Even though the Zoroastrian influence in Judaism/Christianity is a hypothesis from scholars, it is not an unfounded hypothesis. The dualistic interpretations of good and evil in terms of the characterization of Satan is shared with Zoroastrian beliefs in the Book of Daniel, as it is contrasted with the role of Satan as more of a prosecutor for God in the Pentateuch/Job. If Zoroastrianism did not influence Abrahamic religions, it might at the least have been mentioned in the Bible. The Gospel of Matthew also mentions "magi" coming from the East to worship the infant Jesus, and the word "magi" in the Gospel of Matthew derives from a Greek transliteration of a Persian root "magus". Later Christian tradition named them as variations of the names, "Caspar", "Melchior", and "Balthazar" in sources like the Excerpta Latina Barbari. English tradition names them as astrologers, who were notable in Zoroastrian religion, and Melchior is said to have come from Persia.
Yeah, the Christians or Jews who are resistant to this idea feel their religion is being attacked which it isnt. Both sides were influenced by each other. The Jews shared their scriptures with the Persians when Cyrus freed them from Babylon, and Cyrus was friendly to them because they saw each others religions as kindred spirits. Also the reference of the Magi in the Gospels is there by no accident. Its saying something without saying it. Essentially that the Zoroastrians also had the right ideas about the Messiah (Saoshyant) as Isaiah, Daniel, or any other Old Testament prophet, all the way back to the Torah which was pre exile. Also Zoroastrian apocalyptic literature probably predates Daniel and Isaiah and when you read, the imagery and theological similarity is so glaring.
@@paulkickling7828 Exactly. This even more supports the universal truth of the Gospel as described in Acts 17:26-28,
"And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us,
for "'In him we live and move and have our being';as even some of your own poets have said, "'For we are indeed his offspring."
@@user-yh6tt2nu4p haha yes, the Acts 17 having mentions of Greek philosophers, which is why Platonism and many other Greek philosophers like Xenophanes, the Stoics, etc, are practically completely compliant and consistent with Christian theology, hence why Justin Martyr, Aquinas, Augistine, Clement, etc, all used Plato and many other Greek philosophers to exegise Christianity's coherence. Philo who predates Christianity even did so with the Torah and the Old Testament, and obviously thats where John got the word Logos from showing how educated the Apostles were in Greek philosophy and I imagine Egyptian and Persian mysticism we can deduce from the Gospels, but I would also extend it to Buddhism, Jainism and Confucianism. Jesus learning his craft in Egypt as a child is not a coincidence. Also, YHWH said in the Torah, forgot what the verse was, that he came to all nations. This is backed with independent evidence from the Bible because we found a codex to that had similar ideas to that of Mosaic Law with the Hamurabi tablet or whatever it was called. Also why Abraham also saw God in the Babylonian / Sumerian pantheon for he was there as he was in all pantheons. And there is strong archeological evidence that YHWH as a name was first revealed by God to the Midianites who were there to greet Moses when Exodus happened, and God promised Moses more knowledge being revealed about him if he is couragious enough to do what he knows is right just like Jesus in Gethsemane making that difficult choice of to not run away.
@@paulkickling7828 I see what you mean, but I disagree on some points. When it comes to Greek philosophy, even though by the time of Edict of Milan in 313 AD, Greek philosophy dominated Christianity, the Church was very mixed between Christians who liked Hellenistic philosophy and more conservative Christians who didn't before that time. An example of this is Tertullian when he said, "What has Athens to do with Jerusalem?" Most of Christian ethics and theology is strictly Jewish, although you can see that Paul was familiar with Stoicism in Acts 17:28, quoting Aratus. The idea of bodily Resurrection, blood atonement, and baptism date to apocalyptic Judaism and the Biblical interpretation by Christians is very similar to the Pharisees. You can see Philo's influence in John and Hebrews though, I agree with that. Jesus's Apostles were mostly fishermen Galilean Jews, so I don't see them being that influenced by Hellenism much, maybe Philip and Bartholomew. The Church fathers are the main ones that combined Christianity with Hellenism, especially Iraeneus, Justin Martyr, and Origen.
@@user-yh6tt2nu4p oh I dont disagree that the ideas of Christianity are anchored in Judaism. I can point to countless verses from pretty much any of the Wisdom books and Prophet books to show Platonic, Stoic or any other Hellenic philosophies, and I do believe they were developed independently of Greece. Even in the Torah, which Philo did the best in pointing them out. With that being said, Jesus and the Apostles came from the most Hellenized part of Judea. To the point where Hellenic culture was just as rife as Judaic culture. So I would not say the Apostles nor Jesus himself was oblivious to Greek philosophy. Heck, Jesus spent many years in Hellenic Egypt where it says he gained his learning. And he along with the Apostles would not have been oblivious to Hermeticism, Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism or Zoroastrianism for example, since the Greek philosophers were heavily influenced by the Eastern religions (excluding Hermeticism which was a Western Hellenic religion) and this is all well documented by Greek historians at the time of Alexander's empire especially where the East and West really shared their knowledge since being under the same empire. Yes the NT is overwhelmingly Judaic, including Essene Judaism and Merkabah Judaism. But I would also not solely put the Greek influence solely on the Church Fathers, although they were the most outwardly obvious with unlike the NT, but I think we can safely deduce the Apostles and Jesus himself was adept in Hellenic philosophy.
Neo-Platonism is certainly all over Christian Theology and St. Augustine who, let's be honest, pretty much, proposed the historical trajectory of the religion with a beginning and end was an early follower of the Dualistic religion of Manichaeism as well as being quite familiar with Plotinus. If you read through the City of God, and few of us can get through the entire text. There are many many tedious chapters where Augustine spends all his time attacking any and all phiilosophical and theological positions of the ancient world. The boy was truly ANAL! Christianity since it unfolds within the ancient world and becomes appropriated by the Romans eventually, is inextricably intertwined with the ideas of Plato, etc. One can choose to reject this, but it's hard to believe that there was no syncretism between them. Just saying? Now all the apologists can chime in with their nays, lol!
Neo platanism is a philosophy not a theology . Christianity is a mix of western and eastern philosophy after all .
You will find dualistic Christians and idealist Christians after all
Yeah Plato's ideas are completely syncretic with Christianity. However, its not like Judaism got the ideas of God just from the Greeks like Plato, Xenophanes or anyone else who spouted similar ideas. I can point to Isaiah, Daniel, Psalms and Solomon's books in having very Platonic ideas. Now you could say Isaiah was influenced by Plato but its not that obvious when you read the text. Zoroastrian influence on Isaiah and Daniel are very obvious, since both of the books are very apocalyptic and apocalyptic literature in Zoroastrianism probably predates Judaic apocalyptic literature.
And .... Zoroaster is the root inspiration for Greek philosophy, the pre-Socratics like Heraclitus, Pythagoras had studied with the Magi, and Plato's two worlds (matter and spirit), the concept of the forms, is clearly Zoroastrian in origin: Menog, Gettig, Asha, etc. Zoroaster is the ultimate father of our whole civilization, both in terms of religion and philosophy. Nietzsche recognized this.
Meh it’s almost a fact. If you study it you’ll find soooo many similarities but to be fair, if you study any religion you’ll find far more similarities then not surprisingly enough.
Almost anything in ancient literature is considered a hypothesis. Lmao
I'd love you to do a video about if heaven and hell were inspired by Zoroastrianism, cause I've seen a ton of people argue this
it would probably be "Actually, genesis and ecclesiastes clearly show there is a heaven and hell dependent upon whether you accept Jesus!" lol
Or specifically the idea that before the Babylonian exile, the Jews only believed in Sheol would be more interesting@@rorke6092
@@Denjiman-qz9mi I mean considering people acsended to heaven in the old testament that isn't possible right?
No need
Paradise is an avestan word
@@briandiehl9257 Well that’s the arguments. The original Torah started out as pre Babylonia exile writings. They seem to hint at a vague afterlife known as Sheol but don’t ascribe it the characteristics of heaven or hell. It’s not until we get Old Testament writings that we’re probably written during or after the exile that we get a Destiny description of heaven and people like Elijah ascending into heaven (Enoch is taken away by God but nothing in the text describes it like ascending into heaven).
Islam definitely. The 5 Daily prayers are literally just copy and pasted. But Judaism and Christianity, no way.
Only two are obligatory.
@@obadiahkilgore2964All 5 are obligatory, don’t lie.
Or have you confused the ritual with what you are supposed to do in a ritual, for in some of the 5 obligatory daily prayers, only 2 of the Raka’ats are obligatory.
"Only the religion of my enemy was effected by the largest religion at the time not my religion I have the supreme truth"
@@bocchithean-cap3404 if that makes you feel better... sure. That's what the evidence says
Judaism and Christianity and Aḥaadiiṯ are copy and paste entirely from their surroundings!!!
Will you cover the sumerian tablets and their relationship to the old testament
There's no relations. Sumerian is tooo alienates and old. And farrr away.
Babylonian is what the tanak is related and copies of of and rebels against and falls to.
Michael is not scholar or researcher but I am he doesn't know he spews and cherry picks deliberately to suit his own agenda.
Fake
Soooo...updates like in Christianity?
Fun fact: Some mystery religions reach that Jesus was Zoroaster in his final perfected incarnation.
There is no doubt that there was at least some influence. From calling cyrus the great "anointed" to the 3 magi coming to baby jesus
The answer is no, since Christianity is a fulfillment rather than a copy.
If you hold that zoroastrianism and judaism weren’t split, formed and titled ‘religions’ until the 1500’s- and remember that both the persians and semites who were practicing monotheism following zarathustra/Abraham were being called hanifs/pagans by the mainstream… it’s not hard to find that the two were always linked in arms until hundreds and thousands of years after the fall of the persian empire that helped the monotheistic semites
Of course, Zoroastrianism influenced 2nd Temple Judaism and therefore Christianity. This should shock no one. Many of our doctrines come from Zoroaster: free will, the pre-eminence of morality, personal judgement, the last or general judgement, the apocalyptic renewal of the world, strict monotheism, Satan as a power opposed to God, etc., etc. The three wise men who visited the Christchild were Zoroastrian priests. Zoroaster had a prophecy of a Saoshyant, or world Saviour, whom the wise man recognized as Christ. I believe Zoroaster was a bona fide prophet and Ahura Mazda is the one true God who revealed Himself incarnate in Christ.
Yep...in my opinion Zoroastrianism is like a proto-Bahai faith...borrowing from other traditions to bolster their own.
"In my opinion" xD You are great scholar indeed
B b b but Christianity bad
Christians and Jews alike revered Zoroastrians. See: Cyrus, the three wise men (magi). This is not at all a fringe scholarly theory.
@@rorke6092
What do the 3 magi have with reverence, are you ok?
Cultianity is indeed bad bad bad
@charliejackson5492 Cutianity is the new name for the false religion called Islam? Interesting.
Greaaat videoooo! Thanks
Seeing this from a Faith way, I believe Zoroaster was showed the truth by God but he took it wrongly and started interpreting things wrong and heretic way, but it did help with sending back the Jews to judea
monotheism came from egypt actually
wrong!
Zoroastrian and Babylonian with MRDK.😊
@@charliejackson5492 cope harder
@@KogetsuKuzunoha Egypt and Zoroastrians and Babylon with MRDK. Yes.
I honestly don't care about the origin of religion. All I know is my own testimony that will never sway my belief in God and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Zoro is that Don Diego De La Vega guy... there's a religion about him? /snark/
offtopic ....
Why does MJ accept that Zoroastrianism changed over time and not Christianity ? 🤔
Because he's liar. Cultianity changed jillion times for the less then 2k it was around.
I mean, he is an apologist.
@@HangrySaturn Mickey boy once again fails to understand the cult he's in and it's apparent Errors and Falsehoods. The common words in the cultian bible was well known in the 2nd century the platformed his False beliefs system (or cult).
And later on too.
@@HangrySaturnlmao 😂😂
Wasn't it originally judism?
Oh trust me Zoroastrianism had a major effect on Islam not the other ones though
Or... they all evolved as people tend to do and influenced each other....
Michele I need some good books to read.
"THE MONOTHEIS IT SHOULD BE A SINGLE GREEDY GOD, WHO FELT THEY HAD TO CREATE EVERYTHING, WHICH BESIDES GOOD, IT WAS ALSO THE SOURCE OF EVIL AND EVIL, BUT ALSO MUST BE A HYPOCRITE GOD, BECAUSE THEY ALSO HAVE TO CLAIM THAT THE GHOSTS AND FALLEN ANGELS ARE HIS CREATIONS, BUT ONLY TO BE SLANDERED AS THE CREATORS OF CRIME. ?!
For e ample the word paradise comes from Persian...for muslims it is Firdavs...it is not originated from a semitic word? Lester L. Grabbe scholar of Hebrew Bible and Early Judaism concluded that there is general agreement that Persian religion and tradition had its influence on Judaism over the centuries.
Good work here
In the bible it states that Cyrus set free the jews to rebuild the temple. His God that have him all the kingdoms on earth told him to do so. Know that his God was Ahura Mazda and his prophet Zoroaster. Hé also gave Ezra the assignment to put the laws (10 commandments) together and to teach these in Jeruzalem. 3 magi ( zoroastrian priests/ astrologers ) came to see Jezus)
Baptism is original a zoroastrian practice. The jews never did that.
Heaven and Hell are zoroastrian
The devil / satan is Ahriman the jews never had a devil
This all happened after cyrus freed the jews from Babylon. So yes zoroastrianism is the great influence on jewish/ Christian and islam beliefs
Like the guy said, zoroastrianism probably got these ideas from christianity and Judaism itself instead of the other way around...
The devil is a character seen in the book of job, a very old book that predates any possible zoroastrianism influences, and baptism was probably something that zoroastrianism took from both religions aswell.
@@cobalt618Ok why are these heretics(zororastrians) mentioned in the rigveda. Why is the avestan language similar to Vedic sanskrit. We know it through archaeological evidence that Aryans arrived in india after 1900 bce. From then the mixing with languages began. The indo Iranians are 100% andronovo descended considering the Scythians spoke an Iranic language. So the point is the closer avestan is with sanskrit the older it gets. As with time languages start to diverge. Not to forget Rigveda mentions these sorcerers and also mentions them losing to the true aryans
@@cobalt618Not to forget they call the devil angra manyu. Which obviously is a stupid thing to say. For in rigveda 10.83.2 it says "Manyu is Indra; Manyu verily was a god; Manyu is the sacrificing priest (Agni), the omniscient Varuṇa;the people who are of human descent, praise Manyu; protect us, Manyu, well plural ased along with Tapas"
So it cannot be that manyu is not older than job. Israelites don't compare to the Aryans who have strict oral tradition dating back thousands of yrs
I love how they always assume the influence goes (religion X)-->Christianity, but they never consider the possibility of Christianity--->(religion X) 🤦🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
Hey guys what does John 5:26 mean when it says the Father granted the Son to have life in himself? JW use this verse to prove God created Jesus, is this referring to his human vessel?
Read the lecture that Augustine gave, this verse follows the Trinitarian logic of eternal generation (I.e the Son is coeternal but finds his life “or essence” in the Father, who is the sole asei being).
Yes. Therefore the reason of the trinity, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. Jesus is God in the flesh.
@@strictbank9865 yes
The Magi that came from the East to witness the birth of Christ were most likely Zoroastrians.
The Three Wise Men were considered to be Zoroastrians. This would make sense, since even gentiles were accepted into the New Testament.
There are many examples that gentiles were accepted even in the old testament.
So? If they were zoroastrians what?
Except theres no proof those three men were Zoroastrian.
You lost me at overlooked
Bro are you saying it wrong on purpose?
Michael! Love ya, but its Zoro-ASS-tree-an-ism not zoriastrian lol
Iirc, Zoroastrianism was influenced by certain Jews during the Babylonian exile and the Magians who visited Jesus may have been students of that court that Daniel influenced
Yeah, the Christians or Jews who are resistant to this idea feel their religion is being attacked which it isnt. Both sides were influenced by each other. The Jews shared their scriptures with the Persians when Cyrus freed them from Babylon, and Cyrus was friendly to them because they saw each others religions as kindred spirits. Also the reference of the Magi in the Gospels is there by no accident. Its saying something without saying it. Essentially that the Zoroastrians also had the right ideas about the Messiah (Saoshyant) as Isaiah, Daniel, or any other Old Testament prophet, all the way back to the Torah which was pre exile. Also Zoroastrian apocalyptic literature probably predates Daniel and Isaiah and when you read, the imagery and theological similarity is so glaring.
@@paulkickling7828 you misapprehend what I'm saying. As per Daniel he was placed high in the court over the magicians, astrologers, prognosticators, et al, in Babylon. That is, he was put in charge of, among others, the Zoroastrians of his day. Those Magians would have learned *from* what Daniel taught about accurate prophetic signs of the coming Messiah, and bc the Babylonian Magians valued such astronomical signs, they were looking for it with the accuracy they learned from Daniel, and were able to send representatives to pay homage at the right time, in contrast to the hardened priests and Herod, who weren't paying attention
You don’t know how superpowers work.
Uhhh you mean Jews were influenced by Zoroastrians it's the opposite you got it upside down.
U have it upside down and also very backwards.
I mean I get what he indicates but someone could indicate the same thing with Christianity
I would have to fact check this because I've always been taught and learned it predates to about 2 to 3,000 BC
Cyrus the Great was into Zoroastrianism and worshipped Marduk but God Jehovah said He used Cyrus to free the Isrealites to rebuild the temple...but why was Cyrus worshipping Marduk instead of yahweh...look up Cyrus Cylinder
God can use people who don't believe in Him. God is said to have called the Assyrians down on the Kingdom of Israel when they broke their covenant with Him. Then, He used the Israelite campaign and their behavior during it as the justification for passing judgment on the Assyrians. Being used by God doesn't imply that you are Godly or that you are free from either praise or punishment based on your own moral responsibility.
God didn't forcibly convert Cyrus to Yawism or bodily possess him like a mindless puppet.
I mean, it's always the atheists and neopagans making the point (against a strawman) that non-Christians are capable of doing good things. Here, God put a powerful pagan ruler in place to do something good for the people of God, and he is remembered favorably among pagans by the Bible.
I don't see a contradiction here. So, he credited his pagan god. That's what we should expect a pagan to do.
@@jameswoodard4304 I just find it strange for Yahweh to claim Cyrus the Great when Cyrus is giving Marduk his God all the glory for his accomplishments what he did and I thought Jehovah God was a jealous God not to worship other gods and Cyrus the Great worshipped another God
@@dodgecityrecords4685 as part of his empire building, Cyrus tended to frame his conquests as the will of the gods of the nations he conquered, and this is especially true in Babylonia.
The final king of Babylon, Nabonidus, was a devoted follower of the moon god Sin, to the supposed neglect of all other gods, including the king of the gods, Marduk. (Think of him as a rough Babylonian equivalent of Akhenaten.) He spent much of his reign going on pilgrimages in Northern Arabia, and leaving his son Belshazzar more or less in charge of Babylon.
During the war with Cyrus, he had the idols of many gods removed from their local temples in surrounding towns and moved to Babylon. Many people interpreted that as an insult to the gods, by exiling them from their homes (he had probably done such to protect the idols from destruction).
When Cyrus conquered Babylonia and marched into Babylon in triumph, he framed his conquest as the will of Marduk, to rid Babylon of the neglectful and sacrilegious Nabonidus and replace him with a king who would give the king of the gods his rightful respect. This served to endear him to the Babylonians and to earn their loyalty and submission.
@dodgecityrecords4685 ,
Think of it this way, YHWH claims to be the universal Deity that governs over everything, including those who don't believe and have even never heard of Him, right? I assume we are on the same page, and can agree that that is the claim, correct?
YHWH *is* the God over Cyrus, regardless of what Cyrus believes, just like He is the God that provides rain over India regardless of what Hindus (including both good and bad people) believe.
He is holding every subatomic partical and galaxy together by His own will, and overseeing the lives of billions of individual human beings at once (while still taking their free will into account), the majority of whom don't believe He even exists. So when *any* good is brought about in the world, He is the ultimate source of it, regardless of what people involved believe.
Think of it this way, God claimed to have a leading hand in bringing the Assyrian Emperor Sennacherib into Israel as a judgment, right? Sennacherib worshipped Asshur. So, why would God be able to use a pagan ruler to bring destruction on Israel, but not be able to use a different pagan ruler to bring blessing?
God is not limited by people's false beliefs. Is His rule as the universal Deity geographically and personally restricted based on the religion of the people? No.
He "gives rain on the just and the unjust." The animistic herdsman on the high plains of Inner Mongolia has Him to thank for the well-being of his herd and for every breath that he breaths even if he had never heard of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. This would not cease to be the case simply because we find his diary in which he gives all the glory to Tengri.
God is "jealous" over those who believe in Him and have a relationship with Him. The idea of God's jealousy in the Bible is the picture of a dutiful husband who becomes angry if his wife is caught sleeping around. He is, then, justifiably outraged. There can be no room in the "marriage" for any other man sleeping with His beloved wife. But Cyrus is not part of the "bride." If God was unable to work through or among people simply because they don't believe in Him, then the vast majority of the planet (not to mention the cosmos) would simply cease to exist.
A guy who only takes from what coincides with his theses. "Great scholar" xD
Christianity from Judaism from cannaites from shamanism from animism. Not hard to deconstruct if your trying to not accept reality
The Jews adapted their eschatology to what was commonly accepted at the time. In the exodus they adapted their eschatology with what was common in the ANE. When the Persians conquered and the Persian State Religion of Zoroastrianism became commonly accepted the Jews adapted to their spiritual duality and resurrection eschatology. This exploded within Judaism in the intertestamental period. The Jews never explicitly promoted an afterlife, they just modified what was common to fit the Jewish paradigm.
there's no exodus that's mytho fiction of their late to post ancient fantasy almost mideval and second Jews are nowhere near ane Beleif with their apostasy and rebellion with their false lone god idol Yahweh.
"While the Aleppo Codex is the oldest Hebrew Bible, the Leningrad Codex is the oldest complete Hebrew Bible. The Leningrad Codex dates to 1008 C.E." Tell your fans the truth IP.
"oldest complete Hebrew Bible", we still have fragments of the Hebrew Bible from hundreds of years before the zen avesta was compiled and they teach the same thing bibles today teach, also did you bother to check if the zen avesta IP mentioned was a complete book or a fragment?
@@Wicked_Weavile0808 Wrong. The Dead Sea Scrolls do not agree with the Masoretic text entirely in some cases yes in others no. The DSS also agree with the non-Masoretic LXX the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible that the NT authors quote from almost exclusively. Apologetics is a mile wide and an inch deep.
@@tgrogan6049 who said anything about the dead sea scrolls, we have bibles from before the zen avesta was compiled, and the oldest complete Hebrew Bible is still centuries earlier then the earliest zen avesta
@@tgrogan6049also, textual variation doesn't equal a different message
@@Wicked_Weavile0808 As usual apologists simplify and distort things to make the Bible "special". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avesta
In Zoroastrian Middle Persian texts (Pehlavi) Xwedodah is said to refer to marital union of father- daughter ,mother-son or brother and sister
That is Muslim propaganda
Ngl I thought Zoroastrianism was related to astrology 💀
It kinda does
@@PM4Kbro, so is Judaism and Christianity. All ancient religions are.
@@paulkickling7828 no, they aren't. Judaism and Christianity don't worship the sun, moon, and stars. They recognize them as creation. In their true forms, neither one practices astrology, they don't worship constellations, they don't do horoscopes, etc. Their whole systems of belief do not align.
@@paulkickling7828 Also, no, neither one was influenced by zoroastrianism, it was not the first monotheistic religion. It influenced Islam, but not the other 2.
The Hebrew religion started before Noah, but let's just use Noah as a reference because some sources say Judaism started with Abraham, which cannot be true because Noah is Abraham's great great great (maybe more) grandfather, and Noah believed in the same God. The flood was about 2350 BC, Noah was living for a while already. Abraham was born around 2166 BC. Christianity comes from the Hebrew religion, it's just a continuation, so it has the same origins. The Old Testament is the Torah, the prophets, psalms, minor prophets, etc from the Hebrew religion.
Zarathustra aka Zoroaster, the founder of zoroastrianism, was born between 1500 BC to 1000 BC, and some sources say the religion only dates back to 6th century BC, which is even newer.
Therefore, it's ridiculous to say zoroastrianism was first when Noah was walking around 1,000 years before Zoroaster, and Abraham was at least 600 years before Zoroaster.
@@PM4K never said they worship the sun, moon or stars LOL. All ancient religions are related to astrology. This is a fact. RELATED DOES NOT MEAN WORSHIP. Get it right homie. You want evidence? Go look up all the churches and synagogues, and the temples of every religion and they have an astrological chart within them. In fact in Sumeria and Babylon where Abraham came from. You can look in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Astrology is everywhere and in the Bible. In fact the story the stars are telling are the same as the Bible. You would know this if you knew anything about mysticism which you clearly don't.
I mean that theory isn’t that wrong for Islam…
Its incredibly obvious.
Well, the three man who came to Jesus in Betlem were zaraostrian scholars.
Actually, the NT never states the number of the three Magi.
@@HangrySaturn OK, but they were zataostrian
@@brambourgojgurt7973 Yeah, probably.
Soooooo what she said
This religion is from the caanatites which the bible talks about in great detail
It's not. Cana'anites influenced refute hebraism theology wise post and co ancient at its start.
Yahweh using El word and Elah
Horned altars
Yeastless sacrifices
Bread without yeast
Stone priests
Sabbath day Saturday rest
And much more are Canaanite customs and religious practices during after and before Yahweh was made up in post ancient times.
There are no connections between Zoroastrianism and Canaanite religions.
@@HangrySaturn indeed thank you
Canaanites are Semitic while Zoroastrians are Eurasians.
That's just sensationalism of people today who are not very well clear because of other beliefs not being the conquering or dominant ones yet.
Are you saying it right or is she
But Islam was not around in first, or fifth century.
I think he meant bc .. could be wrong
He meant AD as then his point of it not coming before Christianity and Islam would be wrong
Zorie-ass-trism. Cool pronunciation, bro.
Yeah, I'm generally a pretty consistent fan of IP, but his pronunciation of terms can be a bit spotty. He needs to work on it.
I noticed that the entire video. 😂😂😂
All love, IP. It's not the easiest word in English.
According to the Bible, Cyrus the Great, king of the Achaemenid Empire, was the monarch who ended the Babylonian captivity. In the first year of his reign he was prompted by God to decree that the Temple in Jerusalem should be rebuilt and that Jews who wished to could return to their homeland for this purpose.... The God of Cyrus the Great is Ahura Mazda.
Not false idol yahweh with his Moses Adam Jesus Muhammad evils but Real One True God here Lord Ahura-Mazda and His Avatar Lord Mithras.
Good timing. @robertsepehr recently did a video making a similar connection
That's because they're grifters. If other religions can be influenced, why can the abrahamic faiths not be influenced?
@@chickennuggets2672well I would argue mohammed got influenced by pagans, zoroastrians and christian heresies.
Zoroaster -> Plato -> St. Augustine
What's the contention?
Greeks and Persians loathed each other! Right back to ancient Athens and Sparta.
@@loreman7267 That should tell you how wise Zoroaster was that he was so revered in Athens despite hatred towards Persians.
@@loreman7267 wrong Alexander loathed Zoroastrianism probably out of spite of hating the Persians as did the Greek populice. But the philosophers who accompinied him did not.
Yeah, the Christians or Jews who are resistant to this idea feel their religion is being attacked which it isnt. Both sides were influenced by each other. The Jews shared their scriptures with the Persians when Cyrus freed them from Babylon, and Cyrus was friendly to them because they saw each others religions as kindred spirits. Also the reference of the Magi in the Gospels is there by no accident. Its saying something without saying it. Essentially that the Zoroastrians also had the right ideas about the Messiah (Saoshyant) as Isaiah, Daniel, or any other Old Testament prophet, all the way back to the Torah which was pre exile. Also Zoroastrian apocalyptic literature probably predates Daniel and Isaiah and when you read, the imagery and theological similarity is so glaring.
mhmm now talk about the epic of Gilgamesh lol
He did, he noted how it's likely that some aspects hail from a verbal tradition of the flood
He's done several videos about it.
Zoroastrianism believes in a good god and an evil god of equal power.
Which is completely different from how we view God and Satan.
No you're actually absolutely wrong it's not a belief in a good got It bad God it's a good God who fights off a devil monster of Destruction who gets destroyed in the end and actually is a dualistic figure that you guys want to be but you can't reach.
And how you view your Satan in Jesus actually is in fact a later idea which is not the original way the Christians thought about it you guys are apostates to the original Christians thought of a duelist pattern too and the first three to four or five centuries they viewed Satan and Jesus as father and son and as puppets and that Satan can actually challenge yahweh in lots of cases.
You better change your way because it's not what the original Christians thought and you guys are a prostate so like all Christians today not just the colts of the k but all you guys are apostates the original Christians who thought in a very dualistic pattern which is exactly from zero astronomy and copying off it as well as Hellenic mystery Faith parody downfall error which cultianity is.
That's Zurvanism, not traditional Zoroastrianism. Rather a big difference.
@@HangrySaturn thank you.
God vs Devil is Religionary and Zoroastrian and Mideast Faither origins not hebraism like CULTianity that is a hoax.