If you enjoyed this, please do consider helping fund more videos like this: www.patreon.com/pillarofgarbage and catch the newest follow-up here: ruclips.net/video/SnGpoFq9y5c/видео.htmlsi=23w3HwLdvTd9MORK EDIT: and a couple of minor corrections. 1, C.S. Lewis was Anglican, not Catholic, and while people have read Catholicism into the Narnia series, it’d be far more correct to label the series simply as ‘Christian allegory’. Thanks to bernadmanny for pointing this out. 2, Claremont didn't assemble the Giant-size team - they were created solely by Len Wein and Dave Cockrum. In the process of researching this video I came to believe Claremont had aided in their development even before he took over writing duties from Wein, but on double checking it seems I mixed a few things up here. Of course, this doesn't invalidate the point I'm making about the resonance of Claremont's stories going _beyond_ team composition - simply replace the word 'assembling' with more accurate alternatives like 'developing', 'using', or 'continuing' and the point is near-identical - but thanks anyway to HeroJournalism and Ashley for pointing out this error.
22:08, I’m glad you brought this stream clip up, I’ve seen other people cover it, like AirrickDebunks and TurfNation. Also, I hope someday you’ll make an entire video dedicated to talking about Eric July.
I do wonder, if the X-Men was always mainly about combating racism especially against black people, why did the “all new” 70s team only have one black member for many years? 🤔
A disabled dude using his resources to open a school for outcasts and helping them deal with trauma in order to better appreciate themselves and build a community. Nope, no wokeness detected. HoW dArE tHeY wOkiFy iT nOw!!?!1?!
@@johnramos8703 Woah woah woah!! Hold your woke horses. Star Trek is pure and untainted by the wokeness, I can't even imagine a woke version of Star Trek. What would they do, have interracial relationships? Cast a woman as some kind of space voyager? Have a black captain in deep space? Impossible!!
What did they do now?? They made Storm black? Is Rogue now a woman or something? Did they make Magneto Jewish or Professor X disabled lol? I hope they didn't emasculate Wolverine by making him short or something...
I have legitimately seen posts complaining that Magneto isn’t specific enough about his backstory in the UN speech. Like “it couldn’t possibly because of subtle writing, it’s obviously the anti-Israel agenda”. There’s no pleasing people.
@@evieblue959 I would love actual story where Magneto behaviour shown and contrasted by zionism and how it damages legacy of holocaust survivors. Cullen Bunn isn't my favorite write by mile, but he managed to balance Magneto narcissistic tendencies with actual desire to help.
Obviously no one had a problem with that. Help me out here with this logic. They literally fought against the Mutant version of Black Lives matter. The brotherhood of mutants you could literally just change the name to mutant Lives Matter. Now I'm going to the X-Men were woke asf. How does that work?
Ah yes because magically all the shows in the past that had diversity we somehow ignore but have a problem with these. It's selective prejudice apparently - don't you know that today you can be racist and just decide not to feel so tomorrow? It's like ppl have so low an IQ they can't see how stupid it is to use this argument for ppl who literally consumed media that was diverse since the 80s.
People have ruined the word “woke” and just slap it on anything that even acknowledges minorities in any way. I learned to just ignore any argument that uses “woke” in that way
pretty much 90+% of people who say the word "woke" seriously are themselves *not* to be taken seriously -- they're either deeply stupid or deeply disingenuous.
I like to just frown and say "oh no.." like I was just told the ice cream store is closed, and walk away. treat it like they just disappointed you and it'll leave them confused at the very least, which is fun
I personally find the use of 'woke' unironically to be very useful. When I see it used, I know I can safely skip the rest of whatever nonsense they are saying. It used to be "SJW" but I don't see that pop up so much anymore. Its a real time saver.
That's how Conservatives "win" arguments; by taking legit liberal talking points and twisting them to the point of meaning nothing. Woke used to mean, being aware of the cultural and societal needs of the people around you; now it means whatever they don't like.
@@mindandbody7971 I'm trying to figure out which made up bs you're talking about. Like, this comment you're responding to is just factually true. X-Men being directly about race and sexual orientation from the start is true. There are plenty of interviews with the writers and creators that say, implicitly, what X Men is about. If you're a racist sexist transphobic whatever and thought this comic series doesn't have an opinion on you, you're just wrong. The entire property is you being the bad guy.
Jeremy from Geeks and Gamers started screaming "DIVERSITY! DIVERSITY! .... I'M OUT!" just at the sight of a POC in the Amazon's Fallout trailer. That should tell you everything you need to know about that side of this.
yeah. can you even imagine being so feeble-brained that you need most characters to look similar to you to even engage yourself in the story? who raised these people?
I just looked that up, and holy shit. He really did just yell "DIVERSITY" whenever a black person was on scree and then say that he wasn't going to watch the show because of it.
And you can bet your ass these leeches won’t say a single bad thing about it if the show or film they prematurely claim to be “woke” ends up being good and successful, as it would go against their “get woke, go broke” mantra. Why do you think Arcane, the show that has 2 lesbian/bisexual protagonists, isn’t talked about negatively?
Frankly, at this point, we’re at the stage where Conservatives would be saying “I’m not anti mutant. We work very closely with our good friends; Fenris”.
@@benwasserman8223 And he would be telling people to go after Dust because she humiliated him. Seriously, he trained Predator X on dummies that looked like her. Just give that poor woman a break.
Guys, did you know that a comic book made to showcase how bad racism and other forms of bigotry is cares about the things it was made to showcase? Wow. Guys I am making a novel restaurant that unlike all the others will serve food.
Did you know that Stan Lee and Jack Kirby originally created the X-Men because they were too lazy to come up with actual origins for the heroes so they decided to say hey they are just there they have powers so actually no it really was not standing for bigotry or racism Stan and Jack Kirby said that multiple occasions it's only the at the time that it came out it resonated with a lot of people because of what happened during the time the X-Men will release
@@treymykel So you are saying that because Stan believes that being discriminated against due to circumstances of your birth is so core to his beliefs that he made such a group heroes out of sheer laziness. Yeah I think that is something that he would believe in that he frequently talked about how horrible prejudice is.
@treymykel Did you watch the video? There was a clip of Stan Lee on panel saying "I realized I could use this as a vehicle to talk about racial issues" THIS IS IN THE VIDEO
@@treymykelThe X-Men’s first experience with a lynch mob happened while the X-Men comic was in single digits, back when Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were still the creative team. Even back then, the series tackled what happened when people attacked those who were different than themselves. Even if exploring bigotry as a theme weren’t Lee & Kirby’s first idea regarding the X-Men, it didn’t take them long to hit upon it on purpose.
The one exception is sexism because stan lee was notoriously sexist and constantly changed things from Kirby's plans for issues in order to remove agency from women like sue and jean
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 It was a different time. Even with all the high ideals Star Trek proclaimed, it was an incredibly sexist show that carried forward to the early seasons of Next Generation. But trends and people change, labeling Stan Lee or Gene Roddenberry as misogynists when they were a product of their time is completely unfair when you have the benefit of hindsight and todays societal values.
@@BenjaminDaCunha-ys8ty i dont see yhe need to get so defensive about it. They were the product of a misogynist time and so they were misogynist. What is it only misogyny when it is for no reason and comes out of nowhere? In that case no one would be a misogynist bc everyone is a product of their upbringing
I remember a couple months ago, some guy was posting on RUclips how the MCU "ruined Captain America by letting a black guy be the symbol". They said it was a slap to the face. I'm like WTF? Jack Kirby was a minority, who created amazing characters to show off how diverse the world is. Stan Lee created both Black Panther and Falcon, so he was all for diversity to. Together they created the X-Men. It's just awful people love to be racist and then lie about who else is racist or that the original creator would support their horrible views.
Jack Kirby was a legit Badass Apparently there were some antisemitism making trouble in the ground floor of the building he worked at, and when they heard that he was coming down to kick their asses, they ran. Gotta love the king
@@A_RUclips_Commenter having a opinion is one thing, but the thing is that he was stating a lie instead of a fact. Jack Kirby created the mutants, which were made to represent different races. He wasn't self hating. The guy didn't know what he was talking about and was trying to justify his racism with lies.
@@ianbyrne465 Oh no, that story is way crazier. So Jack and Stan were writing Captain America at the time. And Cap was talking about getting involved against the Nazis way before America got into WWII. So at this point there was a American Nazi Party. And they sent threats to the office saying what they'd do to Jews and Kirby caught a phone call and told them that he'd be waiting in the Lobby. Stan who was scared, tried to talk him out of it, but he went down and waited and not one person came in there to give him trouble. He was ready to take on a group of dudes and they fucked right off rather than deal with him and they never called back again.
Being a trans girl, it’s so refreshing to see a channel like this that sees through the bs of right wing media and their hate campaigns to this degree. So many “nerd” oriented channels are either complicit in the endorsement of anti “woke” fascist sentiments, or cushion their audience who are a part of that while also staying very ignorant themselves. Thank you for not doing that.
check out moviebob. he's an overweight white guy (yes, another one...) who knows way too much about comics and obscure films, and he eviscerates these fascists relatively regularly in between his movie review. his series called The Big Picture is usually pop culture commentary and so where he smushes their arguments most of the time
One of my core memories of X-Men comics from my childhood was a story where Magneto (who was building a moon colony or something, I dunno, it was Magneto) went back to Earth and set off every possible end-of-the-world alarm ... just to visit the camp where his family was killed, take a handful of its soil, and scatter it on the surface of the moon, both as a memorial to them and as a reminder not to let it happen again. The panel of him weeping as he knelt on the moon to deposit the soil lives rent-free in my head. At that point, I didn’t even know that members of my family had died in the camps, and that issue still hit me like a truck. It is maddening that there's an entire lucrative media ecosystem built on lies as obvious as "the X-Men were never political".
I wish someone would really build a moon colony because I would move there if I could afford to but yes I agree my wife didn't even know some of her family died in one those camps until she got here and her cousin told her
magneto would go to a holocaust denier and destory everything they owned with his magnetism and then say "don't you EVER try and claim the nazis didn't kill my family EVER AGAIN"
@@MacUser2-il2cx in this case, it was Avalon. Magneto and his Acolytes actually took over the ship Cable had been using and turned it into a mutant haven, space station nation. It's in the Fatal Attractions storyline.
They also ignore the fact 2 trans women made it. Members of the alt-shite definitely took the "don't let facts get in the way of a good story" approach.
@@MadWinter889 My old comment got deleted (probably due to being specific about the identity of the ones who made the Matrix) but I love the sheer media illiteracy in followers of the Cult of the Crimson Capsule.
You know I never thought we would reach the point in society where we would start calling the X-Men out of all things, the X-Men! Woke for having a non-binary character who's literal superpower is to shape-shift into anyone. These guys are acting as if they even remotely cared about this character. Each time I talk about the X-Men TV show nobody brings this person up or just X-Men comics in general
They failed to realize that Morph can change sexes.. He can be Male or Female depending on who he is Mimicking. You can say that About Mystique as well. So Non-binary would a Correct term the only difference is Morph CHOSE to stay in a Male form and Mystique CHOSEN to stay in a Female form even though both were born in the opposite direction of each other..
I literally only know about Morph from the meme, and from a vid talking on a spinoff comic series about parallel universes. This character is the purest definition of a throwaway that somebody decided to make use of, and any outrage surrounding him is all the funnier for it!
@@GambeTama I am about to show my age but, I have been following the X-Men since the late '60s and most of what people know about them are from the Animated series. The BEST way to UNDERSTAND what the title is really about you should get compilation Graphic Novels. The most informative ones are when Clairmont's first time on the title to his leaving. Best way to understand the Team is to go back to the Beginning. Trust me, you won't be disappointed 💯😉👍
@@TheJaycee29 Oh definitely. I have a coworker who is the biggest X-Men fan I've ever met. If I asked him, he could probably give me the rundown of Excalibur from '88 to now XD I actually spent a lot of my formative years reading blogs and listening to videos talking about older comics, and it is really interesting to see the different dircetions that the mutant menagerie has changed over the years. I especially have had fun witnessing my own understanding and perspective on characters change as well, particularly with Beast and Iceman. If there was ever a place to call itself the comic creators playground, it would be in the X-Men writers room!
@@GambeTamaOh absolutely. There’s so many characters and angles you can go. Last year, the trade for one of the most brilliantly dumb books, X-terminators came out. It was about Dazzler, Jubilee, Boom-Boom and Talon getting kidnapped on a night out by Vampires. The subtitle “Grindhouse of X” says it all. I loved it. A title that wasn’t well received but I enjoyed was X-corp: a corporate business drama starring Monet, Angel, Trinary, Multiple Man, Mastermind and Selene as they handle the business side of Krakoa. And, for the villain, they had a rival company backed by Thing Ein und Zwei themselves; Fenris. It was pretty fun. Plus, it was a good examination of the flaws in Krakoa. Frankly, a lot of the books that examine the flaws like Hellions, Ayala’s new mutants, the Sabretooth books, Way and Legion of X were some fantastic reads.
Same. Not only that, but I am both a practicing Catholic and a bisexual guy. Judge not, lest you be judged. Christ repeated that multiple times, yet never stated anything about homosexuality.
Holy shit. Here after watching Jose rip apart Critical Drinker and now knowing he’s backed by Benny Johnson- I don’t want to hear shit about him being apolitical
@@MacUser2-il2cx not just the right. its all well off eurocentrics who act like that. every single one has some dogmatic belief in something thats entirely false but makes them feel better about themselves.
“Hey, what’s Mauler doing here?!” is your best running gag. At some point, I hope you release a montage of all the times you’ve called Mauler out for hanging with far right weirdos while pretending to be apolitical.
MauLer and Critical Drinker are actually the worst kinds of conservatives. They'll endlessly complain about wokeness this and wokeness that. But call them right-wing and they'll claim they're "apolitical". It's like they know being a conservative is bad so they simply regurgitate conservative talking points but never call themselves conservatives.
It's odd, because usually that kind of contradiction IRL stems from opposing women having control over their own bodies and sexuality. With fictional women though... man idk. I know there's something to be said about it not fitting narratively ie something being sexualized (or contra, lacking sex appeal) being wrong for the specific character and the plots themes, but really most reactionary opposition seems to stem from just the perception of change happening, at all, even if nothing is really changing.
The anti-woke crowd is correct when they say that Stan Lee didn’t originally intend for the X-Men to be an allegory for civil rights and oppressed peoples. Where they miss the point is that Stan Lee’s original version of the comic was cancelled in 1970. Chris Claremont’s reboot, on the other hand, was very much about that allegory and is the main reason it became the most popular comic in the world.
Stan Lee's X-Men was basically a teenage club, Marvel's version of the Legion of Superheroes but more vapid and with less interesting superpowers. Some of the characters were unrecognizable from the versions everyone knows and loves now. The chuds can have those X-Men if they want. 😂
Stan Lee didn't intend to make it an allegory initially, but he did before he ended his run on the comic. The first Sentinel story was explicitly about how prejudice and fear of the other will ultimately hurt those who have prejudice, and he had several scenes of people discriminating against mutants. And there was a pre-Claremont story written by someone else but edited by Lee that showed Iceman's origin, which involved an angry mob in the American South trying to lynch him (the comic's words not mine) after they discover that he is a mutant. He didn't lean into it as much as people like Claremont, but it was still there from very early on in Lee's run on the comic.
I am rewatching the 90s X-men, it's an extremely political show that ten year old me in 1992 sure as hell didn't catch the nuance of the conversations. I was enjoying the action. But 42 year old me? The intentional racial allegory and likely unintentional queer allegory is thrown in my face. With every single scene and conversation. From parents worried about their teenager changing, to guards attacking the intelligence of a minority prisoner, to a judge not even trying to hide his own prejudices in A courtroom. And that's just the first four episodes. And yes Stan Lee wasn't intending a racial allegory the other writers saw what could be done with it and ran with it. And yes that includes Claremont, without a doubt. Some people don't like reading into things.
@@KingOfMadCowsAs well as a Chinese-American girl worrying about feeling wrong for not fitting in with her adopted family. That’s something that surprised me with X men; foster families play a much larger part in it. Makes sense with the theme of found family. But it is sad that, in the movies, Mystique and Rogue might be in the same pictures (so is Nightcrawler) but there’s never a connection established. Meanwhile, in the 92 series and Evolution, you could not escape the Darkholme family drama. And Evolution almost went the whole hog adding Destiny. Seriously, when Necrosha happened, it was so sweet to finally have Rogue and Destiny act like mother and daughter on the page.
Heck, as I mentioned in another thread, the X-Men’s first experience with a lynch mob happened when the ‘60s X-Men comic was in single digits, by Kirby and Lee. So even the original creative team figured out the parallels early on; later creative teams ran with it further.
X-Men was good until the end of the 90s in the comics because of that. Then you had a bunch of weirdos write for the comics in the 2000s. I'm glad the movies took more inspiration from older comics and the 90s animated series instead.
I usually call people like Quartering, YellowFlash, Geeks and Gamers and the pronouns (yeah, he has a name but he's not interesting enough for me to remember it) fake nerds because that's what they are. They're fake nerds who pretend to be real nerds so that can make money making nerds angry over stupid crap like that.
@@otakuthegreat you say that when these guys you're claiming to be "true fans" will either not do the slightest research about the thing they're talking about (yellow flash) or will let one of they're friends flat out lie about something (nerdrotic)😂
Interesting how so many of the people called out in this video have gone rather quiet since it's now widely accepted that X-Men '97 is an incredible series. Also it's awesome that there's someone like you making these videos to call out these people. I watched a few videos from people like Nerdrotic but after a bit I realised just how mean spirited they are.
I am curious how woke, which was a word used for people in the black community to stay aware of any problems in their communities, to this term used by in the current manner.
To my understanding, it seeped out into general leftist lexicon, started being used dersively after that, before eventually just meaning "vaugly progressive things I don't like".
Same process as "social justice" and "what is a woman". It's an attempt to degrade the meaning of words by appropriating them and getting cultists to mindlessly spam them as insults. Rooted in a fundamental contempt for the idea of learning or examining anything.
@@leviticusprime4904 “The point of modern propaganda isn't only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” --Garry Kasparov
@@arbitariousAndor didn’t challenge shit. The most it pushed boundaries was shooting on location. Something movies and shows have done, since, y’know… they were created.
It meant aware of the the situation at hand. "Catch you sleeping" "Stay woke". To never trust media or government and know what intentions they have for you.
@@darkhoboNo, really. It was used in a completely different way. Then the far right started using it for everything diverse as a way to devalue the word and mock black people and any minority they don't like, which is all of them.
"the x-men weren't meant to be an actual ALLEGORY for racism, stan lee just wanted a super hero team" meanwhile, in the X-men's original comics under stan lee's writing: *founding X-men member, Iceman, is surounded by a hate mob who want to kill him because he's a mutant, with even his beloved girlfriend turning against him upon discovering he's a mutant when he tried to fight back aganst a bully said girlfriend also hated* nothig allegorical there, I am sure
It was also kind of a nod to Frankenstein. Fun fact, Nightcrawler almost ended up a DC character but it was turned down so he became part of Marvel instead.
@@christopherbennett5858i haven't read the comics (or watched most of the movies in a wild) and I don't wanna go down an internet rabbit hole. Who the hell is fenris?
@@Loggodover Andrea and Andrea’s von Strucker. Basically, they’re the twin children of Hydra’s Baron von Strucker. They’re his Nepo- white supremacist children who he had genetically altered to get the X-gene in utero. Based on their fixation on using Afrikaans slurs to reference characters like Storm during her return to Kenya when she stopped Andreas from trying to violate a woman for his sister’s enjoyment, they may be Rhodesian or South African These two are also subtextually and textually supposed to be the Lannisters of Hydra if you get my drift. Andrea is literally based on movies like Ilsa She-Wolf of the SS. They’re also the biggest flops in the world of supervillains. No one wants to be seen working with them unless they’re paid a lot of money. Their own father hates them and they’ve been beaten by children. As in an actual girl’s school field hockey team. And their grandchildren were two of the main heroes in the Fox show; The Gifted… where Polaris helps them. It felt so wrong.
She acted as a foster mom because the child was a mutant and his mother wasnt sure how to approach that..there was nothing romantic implied between storm and the childs actual mother.
Let's not even mention how Storm lore is pretty much ultimate black experience and story of nobody trying to survive in the world which doesn't accept her.
@@mikhaelgribkov4117Not to mention her dynamics with many women like Yukio and Callisto that were born in the heat of battle and helped her come to terms with aspects of herself.
@@christopherbennett5858Yeah, the ‘80s comics hinted that Storm and Yukio had a relationship; a more recent Storm series outright stated that they’re exes.
I have a feeling that this trend will continue as let's be honest, with the hiatus and Superhero content for most of 2024 into 2025, a lot of people will have nothing to talk about and will just make things up.
Yeah, even during the comics code authority days, when you couldn’t talk about religion outside of going to church or Christmas, writers like Stan Lee would often have characters who were Romani when the Pogroms would be mentioned. That’s where you’d get characters like Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Dr Doom, Meggan and Amanda Sefton. Are there issues with their depictions? Sometimes. However, because of the solidarity with Romani people, the writers made some of the best characters that represented that group because everyone else was just fixated on the stereotypes.
right to say something like accepting others no matter what is woke and that's just stupid because I get called woke for saying I don't like forcing my beliefs on others I share them and if you want to listen to them cool if not that's cool too
A big part of the grift is that they are aiming to spread mis-/disinformation to viewers who only have a passing knowledge of the X-Men and its themes from casually watching the movies or cartoons, or worse, only know about the characters through online memes of Rogue's butt, for instance. Anyone with any real knowledge of the comics, such as old guys like me who were there reading the Claremont books as they came out, knows how kinky as fuck his stories were, and that he often explicitly made comparisons of the X-Men's struggles to the fight for racial justice. The grifters are counting on their audience to lazily accept their bigotry as expertise.
First they made Star Trek woke, and now the X-Men. What's next? An all black retelling of The Color Purple*? Side note: The biggest change that happened with the X-Men and Politics, is that they gone from a racial metaphor, to a queer one. *Yes, that's where I had to go to find something more obviously woke than X-Men and Star Trek.
Actually the biggest change is when they went from just being a somewhat diverse group of heroes to being an actual allegory for the civil rights movement. As much as he likes to pretend otherwise, stan lee was a pretty big chauvinist and defender of the status quo, and he never really meant for the X-Men to be a full allegory, that wasn't till a few later writers did it and he claimed it was always the purpose.
@@langreeves6419That was the first show in US history to have a scripted interracial kiss. Which, at the time, was pretty big. Uhura as a character was a big one too in the fact that, in a time when workplace integration was a thing, she was on the top deck with everyone else manning communications. In X men, whilst she was pushed to the side for a while, when it comes to top billing, Storm became one of the coolest characters. Although it is baffling to see people complaining about the Mohawk like she hasn’t worn it often since From the Ashes.
Imagine being so dumb that you're mad the X-Men just now became woke 🤣🤣🤣 Honestly this one doesn't even bother me it's so damn funny every time I think about it I'm wheezing 🤣
My personal favorite is the _Rage Against The Machine_ one. Some dumbass on twitter missed that they were a political band which lead to the response "What 'Machine' did you think they were raging against? The dishwasher?" Some of those that work forces Are the same that burn crosses And that whoooshed completely over their heads. It's amazing.
this is what x-men truly was about no matter what others say or do just be true to you don't hate on haters because they're going to hate thinking about like this magneto wanted for humanity to pay for hating on mutants and used to say and do things that made other human hate on mutants Charles Xavier did his best to show just because people hate doesn't mean we have to be like them so be Xavier instead of saying I hate them because of what they say or do just show them your the bigger person tell them I'm going to watch the show anyways because I love the show and I don't care what you say about it😇
Below is what i have posted in the comments section of some videos of supposed woke-haters who are bashing on X-men 97 so i will re-post it here. JUST THE FACTS!!!!! Yes, Stan Lee specifically did not create them for that purpose but he himself saw the opportunity and APPROVED it to address woke issues which then became a core part of Xmen underlying themes. Stan Lee HIMSELF has done many interviews saying how he was very pleased about it . The original Xmen comics created in 1963 written by Stan Lee and drawn by Jack Kirby started strong and later badly declined in sales so much that it was cancelled by Marvel on issue #66 in 1970. Stan Lee only wrote #1-19 then he left the book to other writers before the sales declined towards cancellation. In April 1975, X-men comics was revived with GIANT X-MEN #1 under a different writer Len Wein and artist Dave Cochrum which introduced a new DIVERSE TEAM OF NEW CHARACTERS who were led by Cyclops, from the original team, and consisted of the newly created Colossus (from the Soviet Union/Russia), Nightcrawler (from West Germany/Germany), Storm (from Kenya), and Thunderbird (a Native American of Apache descent), and three previously introduced characters: Banshee (from Ireland), Sunfire (from Japan), and Wolverine (from Canada). Remember, the original team from 1963 as created by Stan Lee and Kirby had fewer characters and they were ALL WHITE and ALL Americans..... notice the massive WOKENESS diversity characters in GIANT XMEN #1 (1975) which only goes upwards from here Wokeness diversity-wise. However also plenty of new different white characters where also being created alongside the non-whites but wokeness diversity climbs upwards from here. ****** This was 1975 .... FIFTY YEARS AGO....A full half-century!!!! ****** In May 1975, writer CHRIS CLAREMONT on X-Men #94 and he LITERALLY made the X-men become an explosive phenomena as SALES IMPROVED so greatly that each issue of a X-Men comic were selling Millions of copies EACH MONTH waaay more than when Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were doing the X-men. Chris Claremont continued writing X-men comics consistently and continuously for SIXTEEN YEARS (1975 - 1991)....the longest duration of any writer in the X-men franchise from then till today.....and even afterwards Claremont still wrote some more X-Men comics titles (amongst other non-Xmen comics projects) here and there intermittently across the years after 1991 for another 20 years. In 1979.....44 YEARS AGO..... Marvel's FIRST GAY XMEN named Northstar debut in Uncanny X-men #120 was created by writer Chris Claremont and drawn by artist John Byrne. This Northstar character will later be placed as a recurring member of an X-men SPIN-OFF team of mutant superheroes called ALPHA FLIGHT.....this team basically is Canadian Avengers. Northstar will also be intermittently appearing in many different X-men comics across the decades. It was during his era where he expanded the Xmen lore and created a multitude of MORE new and diverse characters and it was in this era that explored and involved diversity (different characters with different nationalities, race, gender, etc), segregation/ bigotry, forgiveness, comprise, self-discovery, feminism, sexuality, isolation vs integration, subjugation vs equality, optimism vs nihilism, existentialism, INTERRACIAL relationships, etc intertwined with sci-fi, space operas, high octane action, relationships and socio-political allegory .....plenty of WOKENESS themes involved. Chris Claremont is regarded as the Godfather, savior and the reason why X-men achieved its great popularity and success which it has held up till today. It was also under writer Claremont that to MANY X-Men spin off comics when became a Marvel publishing traditional maintained till today whereby all kinds of different Xmen characters and teams are given minis, limited series, different teams, alternate timelines, alternate versions, etc as different Xmen titles published simultaneously even from different writers and artists. There was also a strong rotation of different characters and changing team members and types of teams. This was the definitive era that shaped the X-men we know today as it delved more into the "wokeness" themes. So..... Just like when Einstein created the Theory of Relativity he didn't do it specifically for all the other brilliant physics applications it created which were developed by other physicists. When rubber was originally discovered centuries ago, they didn't know it would lead to all the more beneficial inventions (plastics, tyres, electrical insulation, computers, appliances, etc) made by later inventors. However, Stan Lee and Kirby were alive, witnessed, approved and APPLAUDED what Chris Claremont did to the X-men. Thus...when Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created X-men in 1963 may or may not have been intent on what is today called "wokeness" but it had the underpinnings of wokeness which was further explored more and elaborated later by writer Chris Claremont whose stamp on the X-men has remained till today across the very many writers how have indulged in writing the Xmen and/or any of its characters. Just the facts as to how and why the X-men franchise is "woke"......but that doesn't mean it can not be enjoyable because it also has an abundance of brilliantly superb plots to enjoy. I do find it VERY ODD how folks are..... ..... attacking Marvel for supposedly "changing" a character Morph (not sure he was actually "changed"and as haters claim) for "wokeness" yet the same attackers praise and embrace the wokeness in GEN-V tv series which has Transgender switching sexuality powered character and also embrace racebending in INVINCIBLE animated series (the black girlfriend is actually WHITE) ...... attacking Disney for a racebent black Mermaid movie (i also hated this and complained) yet the exact same haters love and embrace racebent black EQUALIZER starring Denzel Washington (the original Equalizer character "Robert McCall" is WHITE, exact same name and character whom Denzel Washington is "supposed" to be). They loved the racebent Equalizer so much that they (supposed self contradictory "woke" haters) made it supported it and became successful enough to make TWO sequels. Haters demand that Hollywood remain true to the authenticity of the characters source material yet the exact same folks raged in uproar about Dumbledore being gay in the movie Fantastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore (2022) when IN FACT Dumbledore was revealed to be gay in 2007 ...a FULL 12 YEARS BEFORE THE MOVIE...by the creator/ writer of Harry Potter universe herself- J.K Rowling. The movie was authentic and true to Dumbeldore's sexuality as per the intent of the creator/ writer/ source of the character and yet the uproar. This movie had problems with it but Dumbeldore's sexuality or wokeness was NOT one of them. And yet somehow the massively woke racebent tv series of Bridgerton and Queen Charlotte did not garner this much anti-woke outrage to the level of the vitriol thrown at Disney/ Marvel. And somehow both Bridgerton and Queen Charlotte were so successful that another sequel series is coming.....yet all the characters in the source material/ the Bridgerton novels ARE WHITE. I was and remain strongly against these racebent Bridgeton tv shows and Why the continuous repetitive self contradictions? I wonder how haters will react if Marvel adapts Xmen character MYSTIQUE (shapeshifting powers and recurring character in the XMEN movies made by Fox studios) in MCU Xmen authentically to her character as it is in the source material/ comics. Y'all can read about MYSTIQUE created by Chris Claremont and her history in brief here including direct quotes from Chris Claremont' himself here: bleedingcool.com/comics/marvel-finally-puts-a-label-on-mystique-and-destinys-relationship-in-tomorrows-x-men-6-spoilers/ ....and read about Mystique's "mutant love story" here: www.marvel.com/articles/comics/destiny-mystique-mutant-love-story JUST STATING THE FACTS.
Whole heartedly agree. I’d also add that Karma, the first of the New mutants, became X men’s first lesbian hero. Honestly, Vita Ayala did her justice in their New mutants run. Mystique and Destiny? Love them. It’s insane that Rogue and Mystique aren’t mother and daughter in any of the movies. Even Evolution and the 90’s show got that right. Fun fact, in the first season, Mystique used the pseudonym of Dr Adler. A nod to Irene, literally taking her name. When Necrosha happened and we got to see Destiny and Rogue referring to each other as mother and daughter, I got really emotional.
Storm actually is American there’s a whole storyline with her returning to her birth play in Harlem and seeing how society has failed the community and it’s people
It's funny that you find anything canon with modern Marvel / DC comics. I can have a whole storyline where she is born on Neptune and you could write the same thing...cause hey, it was a storyline.
@@mindandbody7971 DC has a looser grasp on canon than marvel, so if this was DC, then you're right, but marvel for the most part has everything in continuity unless it's specifically explicitly shown to be another universe.
I'd argue she isn't American. Her father was American but her mother was Kenian. They moved to Egypt when Ororo was six months old, then she moved to South Africa when she was 12, and ended up living in Kenya before Charles recruited her to the X-Men. So she had some American family from her father's side, but she never set foot in America until she was an adult. She has no real connection with Harlem.
@@AgusSkywalkerYes. She has more connections in Cairo with the Thief king who raised her and the people from Kenya and the Serengeti villages who she helped with her abilities.
Man, this video is a cut above. For my own sanity, I just tell RUclips not to recommend any of these weirdos to me. For you to do this deep of a dive into the griftersphere is nothing short of heroic. I'd bet half of them don't even know who's backing them. Or maybe they do and just don't feel shame.
All the videos about X-Men 97 being woke are still up. However, you'll notice that all the grifters who made those videos stopped talking about X-Men 97 as soon as it aired. As soon as it aired. No follow-up videos. They didn't make any apology videos about the "wokeness" of the show, but they didn't make any follow-up videos either knowing full well that they'd be downvoted to oblivion by the majority of viewers who loved the show. You got to love it.
I'm assuming the writer of that article had no idea that Christ Claremont wanted to make Mystique into Nightcrawler's biological Father by having her morph into man and then impregnate Destiny before changing back and be Night's second mother. Man can you imagine how those angry people will react if that had happened?
@@daryltor7608I read that issue and I was like “Finally. We can put the Draco to rest”. And then, just like with Iceman coming out, people started complaining about them removing Azazel from the equation. And I’m over here going “Oh, so you’re caring now? After so long?”
Love the "its a euphemism for race" guys who dont want to accept it is ALSO a queer alegory when mutant kids getting thrown out and disowned, the "mutants are a sin" protests across the comics -- hint: you dont throw a kid out because you discover they're black. Answer: it is both
It applies to anyone who is marginalized and feels out of place in the world. It can be applied to all sorts of people. That's probably what added to it's longevity. Yeah it's sad that bigots still exist in the world today, but people still find ways to relate to X-Men as a result. It'd probably be difficult to do that with any other Marvel series though so I would just stick to using X-Men since it works so well.
They aren't fans of the show either. Nobody is pointing out Rogue was only caked out in a single scene. Just one scene! Everyone acts like she was oversexualized constantly like in the comics. SHE WASN'T. The comics, sure.
The Real fans grew up remembering how they wanted to be an X-men or at least a Mutant so we could do cool stuff and not care what others said about them heck I wanted to be like wolverine because he spoke his mind and no one would argue with him because he pull out the claws
@@renorasearcy7874 Wolverine was OP. The guy had it all from cool powers to a cool backstory on top of being able to heal himself and be basically indestructible.
Or worse,@@awandererfromys1680 , think that the "Machine" was just, and *only,* (Big) Government...Or that RAtM were "raging *for* the machine" when they advocated for covid vaccination.
it makes complete sense to take a comic line originally meant to be anti-segregationist and adopting it for modern issues i really dont see what the big deal is. x-men has always been about social justice.
Yeah it's also how you deliver the message too. You can argue that cartoons get held back because of censorship like how you can't say die or kill, but the message is still getting through via how the story is told. This video points it out but we should really give older cartoons more credit because they weren't that dumbed down as people think.
You know, I remember when Yahtzee Crosshaw reviewed a Call of Duty and commented how it only seemed like one of the bad guys was flimsily made a bad guy by the game constantly calling him a terrorist, like just that word would automatically make players just stop thinking and accept the bad guy is the bad guy. It honestly feels like ‘woke’ is that word for a whole group of ill-informed people. Can they describe what ‘woke’ is? Nope. But they know it’s ‘bad’ because their favorite boring RUclipsr says it’s bad. And they have the balls to call people like me, who want to see a bit more of themselves in the media they enjoy and create, brainwashed.
no, we must allow them so their ideas can be challenged and mocked. censorship only leads to radicalizing echo chambers, and a feeling that "i must be right, if the elites don't want me to say this!"
I first discovered about Jon Del Arroz with his video reading an article by Literature Devil trashing Hazbin Hotel, a cartoon I and millions of others love, and he actually said that the show will give Amazon a moment similar to Netflix’s Cuties, and one of the comments in that video called Hazbin Hotel Amazon’s Velma. Really goes to show how intelligent these people are, huh?
I never even heard of the guy or his videos, let alone Literature Devil. I mean yes, Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss do have problems with world building, characterization and, I know it sounds weird, a little too much of a focus on trying to be a Broadway musical that it falls into the same unfortunate trappings of tell not show, but you have to actually do the homework about what you critique dammit. These anti-woke nuts are just grifters pandering to the lowest of the low to pick their pockets and validate their own narrow worldview.
There's so one hundred reason why HH with even for all potential back lash is nowhere Cuties and Velma. Like, Velma is literally so removed from what Hazbin Hotel even is that to make such comparison you need 50+ logical jumps.
It's telling that the documented evidence that these people operate in bad faith and collude together outweighs EVERY complaint about Zoe Quinn or Anita Sarkeesian or Kathleen Kennedy is very instructive. Like, what they are CHOOSING to believe.
Underrated *AF* comment, internet person! Soooooo much of GamerGate was built on bad faith interpretations and exaggerations, but *enough* people were fooled by the ragebait's veneer of legitimacy that the bad actors got away with it; even *as* they were called out on BS, they didn't face, iirc, significant repercussions...but that *might* be because GamerGate, as a misogynist movement, largely *outgrew* its initial instigators, so even if those few individuals *were*/had *been* held accountable, it would have been largely moot. And, at least *partially* as a consequence of it working out that way for GamerGate, muuuch of online right-wing discourse/commentary has continued to operate that way since.
@A_RUclips_Commenter because you absolutely back one side but are trying to pretend so you can elevate the right wing grifters by proxy. If they're "both as bad" then every accolade and merit one side earns must be found equally on the other! (Hint: they are not. The grifters are just spiteful failsons who are full of shit)
@mattpluzhnikov519 Yup. There entire business plan is rooted in "Everyone reads the headline, no one reads the retraction" writ large. Plus a healthy dose of Preaching to the Choir and developing a massive echo chamber.
Great video as usual. The only criticisms I’d offer is when you talked about them not being able to describe “woke” a good clip to include would have been Bethany Mandel talking to Brianna Joy Grey where she struggles to define what she means by “woke.” Also Gavin McInnes’ name is pronounced In-nes like Guinness without the G sound.
When I caught on that all this anti-woke outrage was just one big performative grift, I knew they couldn't resist making X-Men 97' their new battleground of culture war B/S. But I didn't expect them to expose themselves so much. Loved watching the real fans drag them across multiple media platforms. At the end of the day, they're just giving the show free advertising. The fans were already going to watch, but now the anti-woke crowd is going to hate watch it too. X-Men 97' has been the top talked about piece of media for almost a month thanks to them. I'll die on a hill Disney makes as much money off its haters as its real fans.
Which is crazy because they brag about how mature the older comics were, then Disney finally delivers and gives us the real X-Men, and the grifters STILL have to stay pissed to keep their viewers pissed. lol I bet in a week or so, they will retract what they said and admit what's good about the new show or they will keep making more videos complaining. Both have happened in the past. Jeremy even admitted it once. lol
which real fans we talking about the ones who say burn those guys houses down because we don't like how stupid they are or the real fans who don't give a crap what they say and still watch the show and go yeah let's see that again and don't go into the hype being said on the internet because me and my wife are going to watch because we still love the show
@@renorasearcy7874 The show does a good job adapting the comics too. I'm sort of dreading the Krakoa arc because the comics sort of dragged that out for a long time. It's basically the Mutants running away from the rest of the world and having Gala parties every year. Not too much happens (other than characters dying and being reborn as plant people). Not sure how you could adapt that into an episode unless it takes up a whole season. But that might kill the hype a little. The writing in the new show is pretty good though so maybe they found a way to shorten it and make it more interesting? We'll see.
I like your videos, they remind me of old Shawn. Not to say that I don't still like the video essay format, they've just seemed little too larger than life than I'd prefer. This channel just has that down to earth vibe I've been missing.
"her web connects them all" I HOWLED WITH LAUGHTER what a tiny perfectly-placed gag! even when tackling such serious issues you just don't let up on being an excellently entertaining writer - much respect!
Really enjoy the running joke of "hmm, hey isn't that MauLer? Why is he here?" in your videos. It's strange how some of the most alt-right users are the ones that claim to be apolitical.
Seeing the connections between all these guys kinda reminded of how so many of the more well-known rightwing talking heads have done Prager U "lesson" videos at some point. Not that I'm expecting Dennis and the Wilkes Bros to pay HeelVsBabyface to give a lecture about pronouns any time soon, I'm just intrigued at the incestuous nature of rightwing online content and how that explains why their arguments are so repetitive and shallow.
Only 30 seconds in and I had to pause and take deep breaths for 5 minutes after having to read someone basically admitting they haven't even done the bare minimum and at least watched like one (1) 2000s X-Men movie
It’s really impressive that Lee thinks this is just him being lazy. The fact saying but what if people didn’t receive their power and just got born with it is just lazy writing indicates directly he hates bigotry. He just chooses to write in the fact of prejudice and makes the victims of it as heroes. Man I wonder why Lee would do this unknowingly? Certainly it could not be his actual views put into his stories because… he wrote them and when you write something that is what happens.
I really appreciate you suggesting disengagement as the best way of dealing with these guys - if they stop getting recommended, the lose their power :)
No the funny part is that there is actual people who care about what he has to say when there is all of us who don't care we're still going to watch the show because we loved it growing up to the show and will still watch it even if there are things others or we hate about the changes just like the true fans of star wars we stick by it even during the crappy phase because we don't care we still think the show is awesome
It's funny, as a minority kid, I always loved X-Men more than other stories because it was an allegory of the fight against bigotry. But the aggrieved make a lot of money with their videos and are the loudest voices typically. That movement is strong. Thanks for making these videos. Spot on.
I mean its a little more defined then that but yeah so what? Its not something out of the dictionary its a meme/slang for identity politics. What does "fuck" mean if you tell someone to F off? Better stop saying that if you cant explain it perfectly i guess huh?
@@zinkheroofyoutube8004 Woke is slang for someone obessessed with Identity politics who thinks they are more "awake" then normies. The term was originally coined by black civil rights activists and is now used ironically to mock modern activists. So if you don't like the word go find the now middle aged lefties that coined it and tell them their word sucks.
@PillarofGarbage Look maybe there's completely innocent reasons he's always found with "anti-woke" grifters. Perhaps they trapped him in some kind of box and only let him out to join their podcasts.
Thank you - I had noticed a flurry of right wing talking heads all wanting to cut Social Security - and what was odd was that they were all doing it at the same time seemingly for no reason. Got me wondering who gave them that marching order and the pattern holds true in this scenario as well.
If you enjoyed this, please do consider helping fund more videos like this: www.patreon.com/pillarofgarbage
and catch the newest follow-up here: ruclips.net/video/SnGpoFq9y5c/видео.htmlsi=23w3HwLdvTd9MORK
EDIT: and a couple of minor corrections.
1, C.S. Lewis was Anglican, not Catholic, and while people have read Catholicism into the Narnia series, it’d be far more correct to label the series simply as ‘Christian allegory’. Thanks to bernadmanny for pointing this out.
2, Claremont didn't assemble the Giant-size team - they were created solely by Len Wein and Dave Cockrum. In the process of researching this video I came to believe Claremont had aided in their development even before he took over writing duties from Wein, but on double checking it seems I mixed a few things up here. Of course, this doesn't invalidate the point I'm making about the resonance of Claremont's stories going _beyond_ team composition - simply replace the word 'assembling' with more accurate alternatives like 'developing', 'using', or 'continuing' and the point is near-identical - but thanks anyway to HeroJournalism and Ashley for pointing out this error.
Please tell me someday, all these grifters will get exposed to everyone or that they’ll all fall apart along with this giant web they’ve created.
22:08, I’m glad you brought this stream clip up, I’ve seen other people cover it, like AirrickDebunks and TurfNation. Also, I hope someday you’ll make an entire video dedicated to talking about Eric July.
Dan Slott recommended me this!
no
I do wonder, if the X-Men was always mainly about combating racism especially against black people, why did the “all new” 70s team only have one black member for many years? 🤔
Once the word “woke” left the Black community, it hasn’t been used right since.- Erykah Badu.
Lol I’ve been sAying this!
Took something of black origin and bastardised it? Such a white person move ha
I still cringe every time I hear a white person say "fire"
Facts
Actually it's been used extremely right.
Right wing that is.
A disabled dude using his resources to open a school for outcasts and helping them deal with trauma in order to better appreciate themselves and build a community. Nope, no wokeness detected. HoW dArE tHeY wOkiFy iT nOw!!?!1?!
Next you gonna tell me Star Trek is woke
@@johnramos8703 Woah woah woah!! Hold your woke horses. Star Trek is pure and untainted by the wokeness, I can't even imagine a woke version of Star Trek. What would they do, have interracial relationships? Cast a woman as some kind of space voyager? Have a black captain in deep space? Impossible!!
@@johnramos8703 These grifters already did that one when the first season of _Star Trek: Discovery_ was released.
@awandererfromys1680 You’re kidding right? Oh wait you’re not. LEARN SOME HISTORY, SON.
I'm pretty sure John Ramos was joking y'all.
What did they do now?? They made Storm black? Is Rogue now a woman or something? Did they make Magneto Jewish or Professor X disabled lol? I hope they didn't emasculate Wolverine by making him short or something...
I have legitimately seen posts complaining that Magneto isn’t specific enough about his backstory in the UN speech. Like “it couldn’t possibly because of subtle writing, it’s obviously the anti-Israel agenda”. There’s no pleasing people.
@@evieblue959 I would love actual story where Magneto behaviour shown and contrasted by zionism and how it damages legacy of holocaust survivors. Cullen Bunn isn't my favorite write by mile, but he managed to balance Magneto narcissistic tendencies with actual desire to help.
@@evieblue959there’s no pleasing them because they complain and argue in bad faith
Obviously no one had a problem with that. Help me out here with this logic. They literally fought against the Mutant version of Black Lives matter. The brotherhood of mutants you could literally just change the name to mutant Lives Matter. Now I'm going to the X-Men were woke asf. How does that work?
Worse, they made the genderless character be non-binary! And then they showed them being happy!
"How dare they put minorities in my cartoon about a super powered minority" these kinds of people are just blind to nuance unless it's new work.
Ah yes because magically all the shows in the past that had diversity we somehow ignore but have a problem with these. It's selective prejudice apparently - don't you know that today you can be racist and just decide not to feel so tomorrow? It's like ppl have so low an IQ they can't see how stupid it is to use this argument for ppl who literally consumed media that was diverse since the 80s.
People have ruined the word “woke” and just slap it on anything that even acknowledges minorities in any way. I learned to just ignore any argument that uses “woke” in that way
The best response!
pretty much 90+% of people who say the word "woke" seriously are themselves *not* to be taken seriously -- they're either deeply stupid or deeply disingenuous.
I like to just frown and say "oh no.." like I was just told the ice cream store is closed, and walk away. treat it like they just disappointed you and it'll leave them confused at the very least, which is fun
I personally find the use of 'woke' unironically to be very useful. When I see it used, I know I can safely skip the rest of whatever nonsense they are saying. It used to be "SJW" but I don't see that pop up so much anymore. Its a real time saver.
That's how Conservatives "win" arguments; by taking legit liberal talking points and twisting them to the point of meaning nothing. Woke used to mean, being aware of the cultural and societal needs of the people around you; now it means whatever they don't like.
They do know Stan Lee was a Romanian Jew that was an early advocate for antiracism
To be honest, I don't think they know that.
If they had functional brains and any concept of history they wouldn't have used the word "woke" to begin with.
Where does all this made up bs come from? lol
@@mindandbody7971 Looking something up on the Internet is a really easy thing to do
@@mindandbody7971 I'm trying to figure out which made up bs you're talking about. Like, this comment you're responding to is just factually true. X-Men being directly about race and sexual orientation from the start is true.
There are plenty of interviews with the writers and creators that say, implicitly, what X Men is about. If you're a racist sexist transphobic whatever and thought this comic series doesn't have an opinion on you, you're just wrong. The entire property is you being the bad guy.
Jeremy from Geeks and Gamers started screaming "DIVERSITY! DIVERSITY! .... I'M OUT!" just at the sight of a POC in the Amazon's Fallout trailer. That should tell you everything you need to know about that side of this.
yeah. can you even imagine being so feeble-brained that you need most characters to look similar to you to even engage yourself in the story? who raised these people?
I just looked that up, and holy shit. He really did just yell "DIVERSITY" whenever a black person was on scree and then say that he wasn't going to watch the show because of it.
Jesus fucking Christ. It lives rent free at this point.
And you can bet your ass these leeches won’t say a single bad thing about it if the show or film they prematurely claim to be “woke” ends up being good and successful, as it would go against their “get woke, go broke” mantra. Why do you think Arcane, the show that has 2 lesbian/bisexual protagonists, isn’t talked about negatively?
When I saw that I was like you know a western is fitting for a fallout series cool but these mf full of hate want to hate
Conservatives realizing they'd be the villains in xmen comics is hilarious to me 😂
There was a US judge or politician or something call trans people mutants and then he “apologized” but only because he was too obvious about it.
@@arbitarious I remember this lol. I literally sent it to my queer friends with the tag, “holy shit, who wants to join the X-men?”
Frankly, at this point, we’re at the stage where Conservatives would be saying “I’m not anti mutant. We work very closely with our good friends; Fenris”.
At this point, the Friends of Humanity from X-Men: TAS would have regular CPAC panels. And WIlliam Stryker would be leading morning services.
@@benwasserman8223 And he would be telling people to go after Dust because she humiliated him.
Seriously, he trained Predator X on dummies that looked like her.
Just give that poor woman a break.
Guys, did you know that a comic book made to showcase how bad racism and other forms of bigotry is cares about the things it was made to showcase? Wow. Guys I am making a novel restaurant that unlike all the others will serve food.
As long as you don’t care about the food vein made, id always attend.
Did you know that Stan Lee and Jack Kirby originally created the X-Men because they were too lazy to come up with actual origins for the heroes so they decided to say hey they are just there they have powers so actually no it really was not standing for bigotry or racism Stan and Jack Kirby said that multiple occasions it's only the at the time that it came out it resonated with a lot of people because of what happened during the time the X-Men will release
@@treymykel So you are saying that because Stan believes that being discriminated against due to circumstances of your birth is so core to his beliefs that he made such a group heroes out of sheer laziness.
Yeah I think that is something that he would believe in that he frequently talked about how horrible prejudice is.
@treymykel Did you watch the video? There was a clip of Stan Lee on panel saying "I realized I could use this as a vehicle to talk about racial issues" THIS IS IN THE VIDEO
@@treymykelThe X-Men’s first experience with a lynch mob happened while the X-Men comic was in single digits, back when Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were still the creative team. Even back then, the series tackled what happened when people attacked those who were different than themselves.
Even if exploring bigotry as a theme weren’t Lee & Kirby’s first idea regarding the X-Men, it didn’t take them long to hit upon it on purpose.
complaining about the x-men being 'woke' is like complaining about bricks being too hard.
Besides. X-men touched upon political and social issues before
@@TSPH1992 yeah but that happened when they were children and didn’t get subtext
I'm too hard right now
@thomashottersall5204 Well, they're old now and still don't give subtext.
😂😅
If you’re bigoted, racist, homophobic etc it was NEVER *your* x men.
❤
The one exception is sexism because stan lee was notoriously sexist and constantly changed things from Kirby's plans for issues in order to remove agency from women like sue and jean
💯🧡
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868
It was a different time. Even with all the high ideals Star Trek proclaimed, it was an incredibly sexist show that carried forward to the early seasons of Next Generation. But trends and people change, labeling Stan Lee or Gene Roddenberry as misogynists when they were a product of their time is completely unfair when you have the benefit of hindsight and todays societal values.
@@BenjaminDaCunha-ys8ty i dont see yhe need to get so defensive about it. They were the product of a misogynist time and so they were misogynist. What is it only misogyny when it is for no reason and comes out of nowhere? In that case no one would be a misogynist bc everyone is a product of their upbringing
I remember a couple months ago, some guy was posting on RUclips how the MCU "ruined Captain America by letting a black guy be the symbol". They said it was a slap to the face. I'm like WTF? Jack Kirby was a minority, who created amazing characters to show off how diverse the world is. Stan Lee created both Black Panther and Falcon, so he was all for diversity to. Together they created the X-Men.
It's just awful people love to be racist and then lie about who else is racist or that the original creator would support their horrible views.
Jack Kirby was a legit Badass
Apparently there were some antisemitism making trouble in the ground floor of the building he worked at, and when they heard that he was coming down to kick their asses, they ran.
Gotta love the king
@@ianbyrne465 may he Rest in Peace, it's sad that he felt so unloved at the time of his death.
It's racist but the guy is entitled to his own opinion. I would rather know how he actually is then find unpleasant surprises later on.
@@A_RUclips_Commenter having a opinion is one thing, but the thing is that he was stating a lie instead of a fact.
Jack Kirby created the mutants, which were made to represent different races. He wasn't self hating.
The guy didn't know what he was talking about and was trying to justify his racism with lies.
@@ianbyrne465 Oh no, that story is way crazier. So Jack and Stan were writing Captain America at the time. And Cap was talking about getting involved against the Nazis way before America got into WWII. So at this point there was a American Nazi Party. And they sent threats to the office saying what they'd do to Jews and Kirby caught a phone call and told them that he'd be waiting in the Lobby. Stan who was scared, tried to talk him out of it, but he went down and waited and not one person came in there to give him trouble. He was ready to take on a group of dudes and they fucked right off rather than deal with him and they never called back again.
Being a trans girl, it’s so refreshing to see a channel like this that sees through the bs of right wing media and their hate campaigns to this degree. So many “nerd” oriented channels are either complicit in the endorsement of anti “woke” fascist sentiments, or cushion their audience who are a part of that while also staying very ignorant themselves. Thank you for not doing that.
Exactly. It's kind of ironic that those same channels helped me find gems like this one.
check out moviebob. he's an overweight white guy (yes, another one...) who knows way too much about comics and obscure films, and he eviscerates these fascists relatively regularly in between his movie review. his series called The Big Picture is usually pop culture commentary and so where he smushes their arguments most of the time
One of my core memories of X-Men comics from my childhood was a story where Magneto (who was building a moon colony or something, I dunno, it was Magneto) went back to Earth and set off every possible end-of-the-world alarm ... just to visit the camp where his family was killed, take a handful of its soil, and scatter it on the surface of the moon, both as a memorial to them and as a reminder not to let it happen again. The panel of him weeping as he knelt on the moon to deposit the soil lives rent-free in my head. At that point, I didn’t even know that members of my family had died in the camps, and that issue still hit me like a truck.
It is maddening that there's an entire lucrative media ecosystem built on lies as obvious as "the X-Men were never political".
I wish someone would really build a moon colony because I would move there if I could afford to but yes I agree my wife didn't even know some of her family died in one those camps until she got here and her cousin told her
Asteroid M
magneto would go to a holocaust denier and destory everything they owned with his magnetism and then say "don't you EVER try and claim the nazis didn't kill my family EVER AGAIN"
@@MacUser2-il2cx in this case, it was Avalon. Magneto and his Acolytes actually took over the ship Cable had been using and turned it into a mutant haven, space station nation. It's in the Fatal Attractions storyline.
They talk about the matrix a lot but they’re stuck in their own conservative media matrix 😭
They also ignore the fact 2 trans women made it. Members of the alt-shite definitely took the "don't let facts get in the way of a good story" approach.
So true they’re caught up in their own lies
They all think they’re Neo or Morpheus, when they’re actually Agent Smith
Very ironic they are so attached to these movies imagery and theme (tho ofc they missed the point) considering who made them.
@@MadWinter889 My old comment got deleted (probably due to being specific about the identity of the ones who made the Matrix) but I love the sheer media illiteracy in followers of the Cult of the Crimson Capsule.
"To me, my Woke Men!" would make a pretty good t-shirt for these guys
I want one. It's time woke starts being said by folks in a non derisive manner more often.
Is it weird that I kinda want one?
I want one. NOW.
Take my money!!
I didn't know I needed one until I saw this comment
You know I never thought we would reach the point in society where we would start calling the X-Men out of all things, the X-Men! Woke for having a non-binary character who's literal superpower is to shape-shift into anyone. These guys are acting as if they even remotely cared about this character. Each time I talk about the X-Men TV show nobody brings this person up or just X-Men comics in general
They failed to realize that Morph can change sexes.. He can be Male or Female depending on who he is Mimicking. You can say that About Mystique as well. So Non-binary would a Correct term the only difference is Morph CHOSE to stay in a Male form and Mystique CHOSEN to stay in a Female form even though both were born in the opposite direction of each other..
I literally only know about Morph from the meme, and from a vid talking on a spinoff comic series about parallel universes. This character is the purest definition of a throwaway that somebody decided to make use of, and any outrage surrounding him is all the funnier for it!
@@GambeTama I am about to show my age but, I have been following the X-Men since the late '60s and most of what people know about them are from the Animated series. The BEST way to UNDERSTAND what the title is really about you should get compilation Graphic Novels. The most informative ones are when Clairmont's first time on the title to his leaving. Best way to understand the Team is to go back to the Beginning. Trust me, you won't be disappointed 💯😉👍
@@TheJaycee29 Oh definitely. I have a coworker who is the biggest X-Men fan I've ever met. If I asked him, he could probably give me the rundown of Excalibur from '88 to now XD
I actually spent a lot of my formative years reading blogs and listening to videos talking about older comics, and it is really interesting to see the different dircetions that the mutant menagerie has changed over the years. I especially have had fun witnessing my own understanding and perspective on characters change as well, particularly with Beast and Iceman.
If there was ever a place to call itself the comic creators playground, it would be in the X-Men writers room!
@@GambeTamaOh absolutely. There’s so many characters and angles you can go.
Last year, the trade for one of the most brilliantly dumb books, X-terminators came out. It was about Dazzler, Jubilee, Boom-Boom and Talon getting kidnapped on a night out by Vampires. The subtitle “Grindhouse of X” says it all. I loved it.
A title that wasn’t well received but I enjoyed was X-corp: a corporate business drama starring Monet, Angel, Trinary, Multiple Man, Mastermind and Selene as they handle the business side of Krakoa. And, for the villain, they had a rival company backed by Thing Ein und Zwei themselves; Fenris. It was pretty fun. Plus, it was a good examination of the flaws in Krakoa.
Frankly, a lot of the books that examine the flaws like Hellions, Ayala’s new mutants, the Sabretooth books, Way and Legion of X were some fantastic reads.
I’m Catholic and I don’t hate homosexuality. Because I follow “Love thy neighbour” to a T
As you should. All this hate goes against Jesus’ teachings, no matter what these jerks say.
Same. Not only that, but I am both a practicing Catholic and a bisexual guy. Judge not, lest you be judged. Christ repeated that multiple times, yet never stated anything about homosexuality.
Same here.
Even when approached as a sin, all sin is equal anyways. He who lies (as in everyone) is no better than a homosexual
How much do you love him
Holy shit. Here after watching Jose rip apart Critical Drinker and now knowing he’s backed by Benny Johnson- I don’t want to hear shit about him being apolitical
"apolitical" just means "agrees with me / doesn't challenge my views"
@@metalsludge8205 The "right" thinks they're always right. It's so ironic.
Its 1 hour and 1 minute of annihilation ☠️
@@MacUser2-il2cx not just the right. its all well off eurocentrics who act like that. every single one has some dogmatic belief in something thats entirely false but makes them feel better about themselves.
“Hey, what’s Mauler doing here?!” is your best running gag. At some point, I hope you release a montage of all the times you’ve called Mauler out for hanging with far right weirdos while pretending to be apolitical.
Mauler seems tasty. I hope he pleases my appetite. 😋😈🍽️
Next time this happens he should play the "What are YOU doing here?" clip from Bojack Horseman
MauLer and Critical Drinker are actually the worst kinds of conservatives.
They'll endlessly complain about wokeness this and wokeness that. But call them right-wing and they'll claim they're "apolitical". It's like they know being a conservative is bad so they simply regurgitate conservative talking points but never call themselves conservatives.
Does the argument really work though? Jay hangs out with those guys too
@@officialmonarchmusic I don’t know who that is
This entire web of anti-woke grifters sound like a giant group of X-Men villains. Like Orchis, for a recent example.
And some act like they’re going to turn out to be Fenris. If you know, then you know what they’re about.
They're like the Friends of Humanity, but dumber and more prejudice.
All of these people would be Orchis lickspittles. Not actual members, just hangers-on.
So woke means both sexualizing features and downplaying of sexual features.
The sexiness is both too much and too little.
@@leviticusprime4904Schrödinger's sexiness
It's like, 'noooooo, you can't sexualise men like we sexualise women😢.' And then they prohibited gambit cropped.
It's odd, because usually that kind of contradiction IRL stems from opposing women having control over their own bodies and sexuality. With fictional women though... man idk. I know there's something to be said about it not fitting narratively ie something being sexualized (or contra, lacking sex appeal) being wrong for the specific character and the plots themes, but really most reactionary opposition seems to stem from just the perception of change happening, at all, even if nothing is really changing.
Schrödinger's Wokeness
The anti-woke crowd is correct when they say that Stan Lee didn’t originally intend for the X-Men to be an allegory for civil rights and oppressed peoples.
Where they miss the point is that Stan Lee’s original version of the comic was cancelled in 1970. Chris Claremont’s reboot, on the other hand, was very much about that allegory and is the main reason it became the most popular comic in the world.
Stan Lee's X-Men was basically a teenage club, Marvel's version of the Legion of Superheroes but more vapid and with less interesting superpowers. Some of the characters were unrecognizable from the versions everyone knows and loves now. The chuds can have those X-Men if they want. 😂
Stan Lee didn't intend to make it an allegory initially, but he did before he ended his run on the comic. The first Sentinel story was explicitly about how prejudice and fear of the other will ultimately hurt those who have prejudice, and he had several scenes of people discriminating against mutants. And there was a pre-Claremont story written by someone else but edited by Lee that showed Iceman's origin, which involved an angry mob in the American South trying to lynch him (the comic's words not mine) after they discover that he is a mutant. He didn't lean into it as much as people like Claremont, but it was still there from very early on in Lee's run on the comic.
I am rewatching the 90s X-men, it's an extremely political show that ten year old me in 1992 sure as hell didn't catch the nuance of the conversations. I was enjoying the action. But 42 year old me? The intentional racial allegory and likely unintentional queer allegory is thrown in my face. With every single scene and conversation. From parents worried about their teenager changing, to guards attacking the intelligence of a minority prisoner, to a judge not even trying to hide his own prejudices in A courtroom. And that's just the first four episodes.
And yes Stan Lee wasn't intending a racial allegory the other writers saw what could be done with it and ran with it. And yes that includes Claremont, without a doubt.
Some people don't like reading into things.
The first episode of the 90's X-Men show had a female president.
@@KingOfMadCowsAs well as a Chinese-American girl worrying about feeling wrong for not fitting in with her adopted family.
That’s something that surprised me with X men; foster families play a much larger part in it. Makes sense with the theme of found family.
But it is sad that, in the movies, Mystique and Rogue might be in the same pictures (so is Nightcrawler) but there’s never a connection established.
Meanwhile, in the 92 series and Evolution, you could not escape the Darkholme family drama.
And Evolution almost went the whole hog adding Destiny.
Seriously, when Necrosha happened, it was so sweet to finally have Rogue and Destiny act like mother and daughter on the page.
Heck, as I mentioned in another thread, the X-Men’s first experience with a lynch mob happened when the ‘60s X-Men comic was in single digits, by Kirby and Lee. So even the original creative team figured out the parallels early on; later creative teams ran with it further.
X-Men was good until the end of the 90s in the comics because of that. Then you had a bunch of weirdos write for the comics in the 2000s. I'm glad the movies took more inspiration from older comics and the 90s animated series instead.
@@MacUser2-il2cx And yet… why wasn’t Rogue related to Mystique?
I usually call people like Quartering, YellowFlash, Geeks and Gamers and the pronouns (yeah, he has a name but he's not interesting enough for me to remember it) fake nerds because that's what they are. They're fake nerds who pretend to be real nerds so that can make money making nerds angry over stupid crap like that.
they're tourists, simple as. notice how their interests are confined to whatever is topical and algorithm-friendly
Gatekeep
Quartering is the guy who pissed in his basements yeah? Don't know why his viewers would even continue watching him after he confessed to that shit
Nah they're not fake nerds
It's always the ones calling them fake etc when they're only referring to their reflection in the mirror
@@otakuthegreat you say that when these guys you're claiming to be "true fans" will either not do the slightest research about the thing they're talking about (yellow flash) or will let one of they're friends flat out lie about something (nerdrotic)😂
Interesting how so many of the people called out in this video have gone rather quiet since it's now widely accepted that X-Men '97 is an incredible series.
Also it's awesome that there's someone like you making these videos to call out these people. I watched a few videos from people like Nerdrotic but after a bit I realised just how mean spirited they are.
I am curious how woke, which was a word used for people in the black community to stay aware of any problems in their communities, to this term used by in the current manner.
To my understanding, it seeped out into general leftist lexicon, started being used dersively after that, before eventually just meaning "vaugly progressive things I don't like".
Same process as "social justice" and "what is a woman". It's an attempt to degrade the meaning of words by appropriating them and getting cultists to mindlessly spam them as insults. Rooted in a fundamental contempt for the idea of learning or examining anything.
@@paulgibbon5991the death of language
@@leviticusprime4904 “The point of modern propaganda isn't only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.”
--Garry Kasparov
@@notrod5341 I couldn't recall the left using it until the right started abusing the word.
"Claremont didn't intend for the Xmen to be woke"
Claremont: OH yeah? *writes God Loves, Man Kills*
Really hope the movie is an adaptation of God Loves Man kills if people are going to be pissed they might as well go full force.
yessss fr (though considering X2 took a lot of elements from that they'd have to make sure it's very distinct)
Nah that's genuinely too controversial for Disney.
Disney would never challenge the status quo. Andor was the exception and it was beautiful.
I would love to see it, both the movie and reactions from the pearl clutching evangelicals
@@arbitariousAndor didn’t challenge shit. The most it pushed boundaries was shooting on location. Something movies and shows have done, since, y’know… they were created.
The Chronicles of Narnia is a Protestant allegory, as C.S. Lewis choose to be Anglican not Catholic, much to Tolkien's disappointment.
oof! that’s a little slip-up on my end then. Thank you for the correction - I’ll add it to the video’s description.
Weird because Narnia books were in Catholic school libraries.
@@MacUser2-il2cx 🤷♂️ Maybe they didn't hit any sore spots.
Woke was originally from black folks!
It meant aware of the the situation at hand. "Catch you sleeping" "Stay woke". To never trust media or government and know what intentions they have for you.
@@A_RUclips_Commenter now apply that to yourself. Fox news, and the GOP.
@@darkhoboNo, really. It was used in a completely different way. Then the far right started using it for everything diverse as a way to devalue the word and mock black people and any minority they don't like, which is all of them.
"the x-men weren't meant to be an actual ALLEGORY for racism, stan lee just wanted a super hero team"
meanwhile, in the X-men's original comics under stan lee's writing: *founding X-men member, Iceman, is surounded by a hate mob who want to kill him because he's a mutant, with even his beloved girlfriend turning against him upon discovering he's a mutant when he tried to fight back aganst a bully said girlfriend also hated*
nothig allegorical there, I am sure
I dont know how you are still so criminally underrated... Every video you put out is a banger
Doing my best!
I genuinely can’t understand how someone can read Nightcrawler’s introduction in Giant Size X-men and think the X-men were never ‘woke.’
It was also kind of a nod to Frankenstein. Fun fact, Nightcrawler almost ended up a DC character but it was turned down so he became part of Marvel instead.
No more muties?
These people resemble the villains of the X-Men.
What like Magneto?
@@BradLad56 like friends of humanity, Cameron hodge, Trask,..
@@misterlau5246And Fenris.
Because no one wants to be compared to Fenris.
@@christopherbennett5858i haven't read the comics (or watched most of the movies in a wild) and I don't wanna go down an internet rabbit hole. Who the hell is fenris?
@@Loggodover Andrea and Andrea’s von Strucker. Basically, they’re the twin children of Hydra’s Baron von Strucker.
They’re his Nepo- white supremacist children who he had genetically altered to get the X-gene in utero. Based on their fixation on using Afrikaans slurs to reference characters like Storm during her return to Kenya when she stopped Andreas from trying to violate a woman for his sister’s enjoyment, they may be Rhodesian or South African
These two are also subtextually and textually supposed to be the Lannisters of Hydra if you get my drift. Andrea is literally based on movies like Ilsa She-Wolf of the SS.
They’re also the biggest flops in the world of supervillains. No one wants to be seen working with them unless they’re paid a lot of money. Their own father hates them and they’ve been beaten by children. As in an actual girl’s school field hockey team.
And their grandchildren were two of the main heroes in the Fox show; The Gifted… where Polaris helps them.
It felt so wrong.
Didn’t Storm literally raise a child with a woman in the first season? Like nothing was explicitly said but… that doesn’t sound straight.
I just re-watched the show to ready myself for the new seasons, and I totally missed this.
She acted as a foster mom because the child was a mutant and his mother wasnt sure how to approach that..there was nothing romantic implied between storm and the childs actual mother.
Let's not even mention how Storm lore is pretty much ultimate black experience and story of nobody trying to survive in the world which doesn't accept her.
@@mikhaelgribkov4117Not to mention her dynamics with many women like Yukio and Callisto that were born in the heat of battle and helped her come to terms with aspects of herself.
@@christopherbennett5858Yeah, the ‘80s comics hinted that Storm and Yukio had a relationship; a more recent Storm series outright stated that they’re exes.
I have a feeling that this trend will continue as let's be honest, with the hiatus and Superhero content for most of 2024 into 2025, a lot of people will have nothing to talk about and will just make things up.
Exactly.
what are talking about they already are
@@renorasearcy7874 I am just saying it is going to become more of a problem, especially during the gap between Captain America 4 and Superman Legacy.
Next there going to say “protecting Jews is WOKE!”
Maybe they’re acting pretty fascist also add there the connections to far right site
At this point, I feel like their favourite mutant characters are going to be Fenris lol.
Protecting Israelis is a lot more complicated.
Jon Del Arroz is anti-semetic. He already says that.
@@JustanotherconsumerCan at least we all agree ghat the civilians at both sides are the ones being screwed over?
The X-men have been “woke” marvel it self has been “woke” Stan Lee was “woke” they just slap the word woke on anything now and its stupid
Yeah, even during the comics code authority days, when you couldn’t talk about religion outside of going to church or Christmas, writers like Stan Lee would often have characters who were Romani when the Pogroms would be mentioned. That’s where you’d get characters like Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Dr Doom, Meggan and Amanda Sefton.
Are there issues with their depictions? Sometimes. However, because of the solidarity with Romani people, the writers made some of the best characters that represented that group because everyone else was just fixated on the stereotypes.
right to say something like accepting others no matter what is woke and that's just stupid because I get called woke for saying I don't like forcing my beliefs on others I share them and if you want to listen to them cool if not that's cool too
A big part of the grift is that they are aiming to spread mis-/disinformation to viewers who only have a passing knowledge of the X-Men and its themes from casually watching the movies or cartoons, or worse, only know about the characters through online memes of Rogue's butt, for instance. Anyone with any real knowledge of the comics, such as old guys like me who were there reading the Claremont books as they came out, knows how kinky as fuck his stories were, and that he often explicitly made comparisons of the X-Men's struggles to the fight for racial justice. The grifters are counting on their audience to lazily accept their bigotry as expertise.
These are the same people that would say something like " Mutie"
First they made Star Trek woke, and now the X-Men. What's next? An all black retelling of The Color Purple*?
Side note: The biggest change that happened with the X-Men and Politics, is that they gone from a racial metaphor, to a queer one.
*Yes, that's where I had to go to find something more obviously woke than X-Men and Star Trek.
Actually the biggest change is when they went from just being a somewhat diverse group of heroes to being an actual allegory for the civil rights movement. As much as he likes to pretend otherwise, stan lee was a pretty big chauvinist and defender of the status quo, and he never really meant for the X-Men to be a full allegory, that wasn't till a few later writers did it and he claimed it was always the purpose.
Star Trek started woke, but has lost a lot of it.
The OG series was in face down your throat WOKE in all caps.
In an interesting inversion, seems like the Message in The Expanse gets missed, or at least I haven’t heard it called woke yet.
@@langreeves6419That was the first show in US history to have a scripted interracial kiss. Which, at the time, was pretty big.
Uhura as a character was a big one too in the fact that, in a time when workplace integration was a thing, she was on the top deck with everyone else manning communications.
In X men, whilst she was pushed to the side for a while, when it comes to top billing, Storm became one of the coolest characters. Although it is baffling to see people complaining about the Mohawk like she hasn’t worn it often since From the Ashes.
@@christopherbennett5858 thank you!
Imagine being so dumb that you're mad the X-Men just now became woke 🤣🤣🤣 Honestly this one doesn't even bother me it's so damn funny every time I think about it I'm wheezing 🤣
My personal favorite is the _Rage Against The Machine_ one. Some dumbass on twitter missed that they were a political band which lead to the response "What 'Machine' did you think they were raging against? The dishwasher?"
Some of those that work forces
Are the same that burn crosses
And that whoooshed completely over their heads. It's amazing.
The X-Men: Sworn to protect a world that hates and fears them
Jon Del Arroz: Nah, they're just a team with powers, like the Fantastic Four
Every time I think I understand why these people suck the big one, more stuff comes out to make me hate them even more
this is what x-men truly was about no matter what others say or do just be true to you don't hate on haters because they're going to hate thinking about like this magneto wanted for humanity to pay for hating on mutants and used to say and do things that made other human hate on mutants Charles Xavier did his best to show just because people hate doesn't mean we have to be like them so be Xavier instead of saying I hate them because of what they say or do just show them your the bigger person tell them I'm going to watch the show anyways because I love the show and I don't care what you say about it😇
Below is what i have posted in the comments section of some videos of supposed woke-haters who are bashing on X-men 97 so i will re-post it here.
JUST THE FACTS!!!!!
Yes, Stan Lee specifically did not create them for that purpose but he himself saw the opportunity and APPROVED it to address woke issues which then became a core part of Xmen underlying themes.
Stan Lee HIMSELF has done many interviews saying how he was very pleased about it .
The original Xmen comics created in 1963 written by Stan Lee and drawn by Jack Kirby started strong and later badly declined in sales so much that it was cancelled by Marvel on issue #66 in 1970.
Stan Lee only wrote #1-19 then he left the book to other writers before the sales declined towards cancellation.
In April 1975, X-men comics was revived with GIANT X-MEN #1 under a different writer Len Wein and artist Dave Cochrum which introduced a new DIVERSE TEAM OF NEW CHARACTERS who were led by Cyclops, from the original team, and consisted of the newly created Colossus (from the Soviet Union/Russia), Nightcrawler (from West Germany/Germany), Storm (from Kenya), and Thunderbird (a Native American of Apache descent), and three previously introduced characters: Banshee (from Ireland), Sunfire (from Japan), and Wolverine (from Canada).
Remember, the original team from 1963 as created by Stan Lee and Kirby had fewer characters and they were ALL WHITE and ALL Americans..... notice the massive WOKENESS diversity characters in GIANT XMEN #1 (1975) which only goes upwards from here Wokeness diversity-wise.
However also plenty of new different white characters where also being created alongside the non-whites but wokeness diversity climbs upwards from here.
****** This was 1975 .... FIFTY YEARS AGO....A full half-century!!!! ******
In May 1975, writer CHRIS CLAREMONT on X-Men #94 and he LITERALLY made the X-men become an explosive phenomena as SALES IMPROVED so greatly that each issue of a X-Men comic were selling Millions of copies EACH MONTH waaay more than when Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were doing the X-men.
Chris Claremont continued writing X-men comics consistently and continuously for SIXTEEN YEARS (1975 - 1991)....the longest duration of any writer in the X-men franchise from then till today.....and even afterwards Claremont still wrote some more X-Men comics titles (amongst other non-Xmen comics projects) here and there intermittently across the years after 1991 for another 20 years.
In 1979.....44 YEARS AGO..... Marvel's FIRST GAY XMEN named Northstar debut in Uncanny X-men #120 was created by writer Chris Claremont and drawn by artist John Byrne. This Northstar character will later be placed as a recurring member of an X-men SPIN-OFF team of mutant superheroes called ALPHA FLIGHT.....this team basically is Canadian Avengers. Northstar will also be intermittently appearing in many different X-men comics across the decades.
It was during his era where he expanded the Xmen lore and created a multitude of MORE new and diverse characters and it was in this era that explored and involved diversity (different characters with different nationalities, race, gender, etc), segregation/ bigotry, forgiveness, comprise, self-discovery, feminism, sexuality, isolation vs integration, subjugation vs equality, optimism vs nihilism, existentialism, INTERRACIAL relationships, etc intertwined with sci-fi, space operas, high octane action, relationships and socio-political allegory .....plenty of WOKENESS themes involved.
Chris Claremont is regarded as the Godfather, savior and the reason why X-men achieved its great popularity and success which it has held up till today.
It was also under writer Claremont that to MANY X-Men spin off comics when became a Marvel publishing traditional maintained till today whereby all kinds of different Xmen characters and teams are given minis, limited series, different teams, alternate timelines, alternate versions, etc as different Xmen titles published simultaneously even from different writers and artists.
There was also a strong rotation of different characters and changing team members and types of teams.
This was the definitive era that shaped the X-men we know today as it delved more into the "wokeness" themes.
So.....
Just like when Einstein created the Theory of Relativity he didn't do it specifically for all the other brilliant physics applications it created which were developed by other physicists.
When rubber was originally discovered centuries ago, they didn't know it would lead to all the more beneficial inventions (plastics, tyres, electrical insulation, computers, appliances, etc) made by later inventors.
However, Stan Lee and Kirby were alive, witnessed, approved and APPLAUDED what Chris Claremont did to the X-men.
Thus...when Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created X-men in 1963 may or may not have been intent on what is today called "wokeness" but it had the underpinnings of wokeness which was further explored more and elaborated later by writer Chris Claremont whose stamp on the X-men has remained till today across the very many writers how have indulged in writing the Xmen and/or any of its characters.
Just the facts as to how and why the X-men franchise is "woke"......but that doesn't mean it can not be enjoyable because it also has an abundance of brilliantly superb plots to enjoy.
I do find it VERY ODD how folks are.....
..... attacking Marvel for supposedly "changing" a character Morph (not sure he was actually "changed"and as haters claim) for "wokeness" yet the same attackers praise and embrace the wokeness in GEN-V tv series which has Transgender switching sexuality powered character and also embrace racebending in INVINCIBLE animated series (the black girlfriend is actually WHITE)
...... attacking Disney for a racebent black Mermaid movie (i also hated this and complained) yet the exact same haters love and embrace racebent black EQUALIZER starring Denzel Washington (the original Equalizer character "Robert McCall" is WHITE, exact same name and character whom Denzel Washington is "supposed" to be). They loved the racebent Equalizer so much that they (supposed self contradictory "woke" haters) made it supported it and became successful enough to make TWO sequels.
Haters demand that Hollywood remain true to the authenticity of the characters source material yet the exact same folks raged in uproar about Dumbledore being gay in the movie Fantastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore (2022) when IN FACT Dumbledore was revealed to be gay in 2007 ...a FULL 12 YEARS BEFORE THE MOVIE...by the creator/ writer of Harry Potter universe herself- J.K Rowling. The movie was authentic and true to Dumbeldore's sexuality as per the intent of the creator/ writer/ source of the character and yet the uproar. This movie had problems with it but Dumbeldore's sexuality or wokeness was NOT one of them.
And yet somehow the massively woke racebent tv series of Bridgerton and Queen Charlotte did not garner this much anti-woke outrage to the level of the vitriol thrown at Disney/ Marvel. And somehow both Bridgerton and Queen Charlotte were so successful that another sequel series is coming.....yet all the characters in the source material/ the Bridgerton novels ARE WHITE. I was and remain strongly against these racebent Bridgeton tv shows and
Why the continuous repetitive self contradictions?
I wonder how haters will react if Marvel adapts Xmen character MYSTIQUE (shapeshifting powers and recurring character in the XMEN movies made by Fox studios) in MCU Xmen authentically to her character as it is in the source material/ comics.
Y'all can read about MYSTIQUE created by Chris Claremont and her history in brief here including direct quotes from Chris Claremont' himself here:
bleedingcool.com/comics/marvel-finally-puts-a-label-on-mystique-and-destinys-relationship-in-tomorrows-x-men-6-spoilers/
....and read about Mystique's "mutant love story" here:
www.marvel.com/articles/comics/destiny-mystique-mutant-love-story
JUST STATING THE FACTS.
Whole heartedly agree.
I’d also add that Karma, the first of the New mutants, became X men’s first lesbian hero. Honestly, Vita Ayala did her justice in their New mutants run.
Mystique and Destiny? Love them. It’s insane that Rogue and Mystique aren’t mother and daughter in any of the movies.
Even Evolution and the 90’s show got that right.
Fun fact, in the first season, Mystique used the pseudonym of Dr Adler. A nod to Irene, literally taking her name.
When Necrosha happened and we got to see Destiny and Rogue referring to each other as mother and daughter, I got really emotional.
Storm actually is American there’s a whole storyline with her returning to her birth play in Harlem and seeing how society has failed the community and it’s people
It's funny that you find anything canon with modern Marvel / DC comics. I can have a whole storyline where she is born on Neptune and you could write the same thing...cause hey, it was a storyline.
@@mindandbody7971 DC has a looser grasp on canon than marvel, so if this was DC, then you're right, but marvel for the most part has everything in continuity unless it's specifically explicitly shown to be another universe.
I'd argue she isn't American. Her father was American but her mother was Kenian. They moved to Egypt when Ororo was six months old, then she moved to South Africa when she was 12, and ended up living in Kenya before Charles recruited her to the X-Men. So she had some American family from her father's side, but she never set foot in America until she was an adult. She has no real connection with Harlem.
The ultimate version is American tho.
@@AgusSkywalkerYes. She has more connections in Cairo with the Thief king who raised her and the people from Kenya and the Serengeti villages who she helped with her abilities.
Imagine being so media illiterate you can't see the sociopolitical commentary of the XMEN
Man, this video is a cut above. For my own sanity, I just tell RUclips not to recommend any of these weirdos to me. For you to do this deep of a dive into the griftersphere is nothing short of heroic. I'd bet half of them don't even know who's backing them. Or maybe they do and just don't feel shame.
He fights in the dark so we may live in the light
This video is streets ahead
It's depressing and sickening that in 2024 people are still calling being LGBT "deviant"
All the videos about X-Men 97 being woke are still up. However, you'll notice that all the grifters who made those videos stopped talking about X-Men 97 as soon as it aired. As soon as it aired.
No follow-up videos. They didn't make any apology videos about the "wokeness" of the show, but they didn't make any follow-up videos either knowing full well that they'd be downvoted to oblivion by the majority of viewers who loved the show. You got to love it.
hwo do you kniw they stopepd talking about just because they stopped posting videos ? also they didnt get downvoted for liking house of the dragon
I'm assuming the writer of that article had no idea that Christ Claremont wanted to make Mystique into Nightcrawler's biological Father by having her morph into man and then impregnate Destiny before changing back and be Night's second mother.
Man can you imagine how those angry people will react if that had happened?
I was going to mention that! and it's canon now I believe!
The writers of these kinds of articles don't know X-men. They know me-no-likey-minority and that's enough for them.
That did happen and they still got angry
@@daryltor7608I read that issue and I was like “Finally. We can put the Draco to rest”.
And then, just like with Iceman coming out, people started complaining about them removing Azazel from the equation. And I’m over here going “Oh, so you’re caring now? After so long?”
@@christopherbennett5858 Man..Azazel when he did….uh
This was a real breath of fresh air thank you for making this. So tired of the garbage these people are peddling.
I’m not gonna lie, this channel is so helpful because I cannot for the life of me tell one ugly, white, conservative beardy dude from another.
Love the "its a euphemism for race" guys who dont want to accept it is ALSO a queer alegory when mutant kids getting thrown out and disowned, the "mutants are a sin" protests across the comics -- hint: you dont throw a kid out because you discover they're black.
Answer: it is both
It applies to anyone who is marginalized and feels out of place in the world. It can be applied to all sorts of people. That's probably what added to it's longevity. Yeah it's sad that bigots still exist in the world today, but people still find ways to relate to X-Men as a result. It'd probably be difficult to do that with any other Marvel series though so I would just stick to using X-Men since it works so well.
The "real fans" continue to prove they dont know or care about any of these properties they spend so much time whining about
hey now, they're quite knowledgeable of the R34
They aren't fans of the show either. Nobody is pointing out Rogue was only caked out in a single scene. Just one scene! Everyone acts like she was oversexualized constantly like in the comics. SHE WASN'T. The comics, sure.
The Real fans grew up remembering how they wanted to be an X-men or at least a Mutant so we could do cool stuff and not care what others said about them heck I wanted to be like wolverine because he spoke his mind and no one would argue with him because he pull out the claws
@@renorasearcy7874 Wolverine was OP. The guy had it all from cool powers to a cool backstory on top of being able to heal himself and be basically indestructible.
man, that mauler guy keeps showing up with right wing grifters, and yet people are always saying he's good and fine, actually. very weird!
it’s just a years-long series of crazy coincidences!
The same people who cry about X-Men wokeness are the same ones who like Rage Against the Machine only "for the music, not the politics."
"What 'Machine' did you think they were raging against? The dishwasher?"
Or worse,@@awandererfromys1680 , think that the "Machine" was just, and *only,* (Big) Government...Or that RAtM were "raging *for* the machine" when they advocated for covid vaccination.
Very apt comparison.
Cyclops: "X-Men! We're going for a walk! A very enthusiastic walk!"
"No offense, Professor."
"Some taken, Scott."
Alucaaaaaard!
On a moonlit walk
Now that the show came out and it’s actually really good, all the grifters are suspiciously quiet lmao
it makes complete sense to take a comic line originally meant to be anti-segregationist and adopting it for modern issues i really dont see what the big deal is. x-men has always been about social justice.
Yeah it's also how you deliver the message too. You can argue that cartoons get held back because of censorship like how you can't say die or kill, but the message is still getting through via how the story is told. This video points it out but we should really give older cartoons more credit because they weren't that dumbed down as people think.
You know, I remember when Yahtzee Crosshaw reviewed a Call of Duty and commented how it only seemed like one of the bad guys was flimsily made a bad guy by the game constantly calling him a terrorist, like just that word would automatically make players just stop thinking and accept the bad guy is the bad guy.
It honestly feels like ‘woke’ is that word for a whole group of ill-informed people. Can they describe what ‘woke’ is? Nope. But they know it’s ‘bad’ because their favorite boring RUclipsr says it’s bad.
And they have the balls to call people like me, who want to see a bit more of themselves in the media they enjoy and create, brainwashed.
it's pavlovian conditioning, yes. they fear being indoctrinated by "woke messaging" because they have no ability to resist such conditioning
this is precisely what "woke" is to right wingers and it's not an accident
The anti-woke videos are an example of why some people shouldn't be allowed on the internet.
"Allowed"?
As much as I disagree with the takes, that’s a bit unfair.
I'm anti grifter but this comment is a massive red flag 💀
no, we must allow them so their ideas can be challenged and mocked. censorship only leads to radicalizing echo chambers, and a feeling that "i must be right, if the elites don't want me to say this!"
@@metalsludge8205 very good point. It's also just inherently wrong and authoritarian to censor.
I first discovered about Jon Del Arroz with his video reading an article by Literature Devil trashing Hazbin Hotel, a cartoon I and millions of others love, and he actually said that the show will give Amazon a moment similar to Netflix’s Cuties, and one of the comments in that video called Hazbin Hotel Amazon’s Velma. Really goes to show how intelligent these people are, huh?
Tf?! I have heard nothing but good things, im watching it over the weekend.
@@pathevermore3683 as you should, it’s a great show!
@@pathevermore3683 as you should, Viv has created an amazing show! Hope you enjoy it.
I never even heard of the guy or his videos, let alone Literature Devil. I mean yes, Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss do have problems with world building, characterization and, I know it sounds weird, a little too much of a focus on trying to be a Broadway musical that it falls into the same unfortunate trappings of tell not show, but you have to actually do the homework about what you critique dammit. These anti-woke nuts are just grifters pandering to the lowest of the low to pick their pockets and validate their own narrow worldview.
There's so one hundred reason why HH with even for all potential back lash is nowhere Cuties and Velma. Like, Velma is literally so removed from what Hazbin Hotel even is that to make such comparison you need 50+ logical jumps.
X-Men have been “woke” since day 1. These guys are mouth breathers.
Complaining about woke X-Men is like complaining about woke Trek or star wars being anti-fascist
Sad part is, they've already done that. Years ago.
It's telling that the documented evidence that these people operate in bad faith and collude together outweighs EVERY complaint about Zoe Quinn or Anita Sarkeesian or Kathleen Kennedy is very instructive. Like, what they are CHOOSING to believe.
I don't see either side as being sincere or forthright.
Underrated *AF* comment, internet person!
Soooooo much of GamerGate was built on bad faith interpretations and exaggerations, but *enough* people were fooled by the ragebait's veneer of legitimacy that the bad actors got away with it; even *as* they were called out on BS, they didn't face, iirc, significant repercussions...but that *might* be because GamerGate, as a misogynist movement, largely *outgrew* its initial instigators, so even if those few individuals *were*/had *been* held accountable, it would have been largely moot.
And, at least *partially* as a consequence of it working out that way for GamerGate, muuuch of online right-wing discourse/commentary has continued to operate that way since.
@A_RUclips_Commenter because you absolutely back one side but are trying to pretend so you can elevate the right wing grifters by proxy.
If they're "both as bad" then every accolade and merit one side earns must be found equally on the other! (Hint: they are not. The grifters are just spiteful failsons who are full of shit)
@mattpluzhnikov519 Yup. There entire business plan is rooted in "Everyone reads the headline, no one reads the retraction" writ large.
Plus a healthy dose of Preaching to the Choir and developing a massive echo chamber.
Great video as usual. The only criticisms I’d offer is when you talked about them not being able to describe “woke” a good clip to include would have been Bethany Mandel talking to Brianna Joy Grey where she struggles to define what she means by “woke.”
Also Gavin McInnes’ name is pronounced In-nes like Guinness without the G sound.
It is so important to tell everybody who these guys really are, thank you!
When I caught on that all this anti-woke outrage was just one big performative grift, I knew they couldn't resist making X-Men 97' their new battleground of culture war B/S. But I didn't expect them to expose themselves so much. Loved watching the real fans drag them across multiple media platforms. At the end of the day, they're just giving the show free advertising. The fans were already going to watch, but now the anti-woke crowd is going to hate watch it too. X-Men 97' has been the top talked about piece of media for almost a month thanks to them. I'll die on a hill Disney makes as much money off its haters as its real fans.
Which is crazy because they brag about how mature the older comics were, then Disney finally delivers and gives us the real X-Men, and the grifters STILL have to stay pissed to keep their viewers pissed. lol I bet in a week or so, they will retract what they said and admit what's good about the new show or they will keep making more videos complaining. Both have happened in the past. Jeremy even admitted it once. lol
which real fans we talking about the ones who say burn those guys houses down because we don't like how stupid they are or the real fans who don't give a crap what they say and still watch the show and go yeah let's see that again and don't go into the hype being said on the internet because me and my wife are going to watch because we still love the show
@@renorasearcy7874 The show does a good job adapting the comics too. I'm sort of dreading the Krakoa arc because the comics sort of dragged that out for a long time. It's basically the Mutants running away from the rest of the world and having Gala parties every year. Not too much happens (other than characters dying and being reborn as plant people). Not sure how you could adapt that into an episode unless it takes up a whole season. But that might kill the hype a little. The writing in the new show is pretty good though so maybe they found a way to shorten it and make it more interesting? We'll see.
@@MacUser2-il2cx I'll take an animated Krakoa to avoid a MCU Krakoa
I like your videos, they remind me of old Shawn. Not to say that I don't still like the video essay format, they've just seemed little too larger than life than I'd prefer. This channel just has that down to earth vibe I've been missing.
Oh man, if it's not related to the daily wire or a murdoch outlet, it's blaze TV. No wonder they all make the same talking points.
It all goes back to Fox News. lol
"her web connects them all" I HOWLED WITH LAUGHTER what a tiny perfectly-placed gag!
even when tackling such serious issues you just don't let up on being an excellently entertaining writer - much respect!
Really enjoy the running joke of "hmm, hey isn't that MauLer? Why is he here?" in your videos. It's strange how some of the most alt-right users are the ones that claim to be apolitical.
Well to be apolitical, you also have to conform to the status quo, which is what right wingers want.
Just stumbled upon this channel.. Its refreshing to hear a creator tell their audience that engaging online even to troll, is helping them
On the wise words of that one guy in the internet.
Superheroes are Woke
It comes free with Fighting Social Injustices
This video was great! Thank you for sharing this video! 🙏🏽💪
Nothing outs fake fans like the cries of "WOAKNESS"
on god, works a ton on the Fallout Franchise too lmao
A great video, I appreciate you fighting against this narrative
Seeing the connections between all these guys kinda reminded of how so many of the more well-known rightwing talking heads have done Prager U "lesson" videos at some point. Not that I'm expecting Dennis and the Wilkes Bros to pay HeelVsBabyface to give a lecture about pronouns any time soon, I'm just intrigued at the incestuous nature of rightwing online content and how that explains why their arguments are so repetitive and shallow.
Only 30 seconds in and I had to pause and take deep breaths for 5 minutes after having to read someone basically admitting they haven't even done the bare minimum and at least watched like one (1) 2000s X-Men movie
Still remember when people said that Critical Drinker wasn't right-wing?
Grifters been real quet since episode 5 lol
Are these anti-woke types STILL using that lame Vivian James character like it's 2014? How embarrassing...
As soon as you said "let's talk about John Del Arroz" I knew we were in for a wild ride.
It’s really impressive that Lee thinks this is just him being lazy. The fact saying but what if people didn’t receive their power and just got born with it is just lazy writing indicates directly he hates bigotry.
He just chooses to write in the fact of prejudice and makes the victims of it as heroes.
Man I wonder why Lee would do this unknowingly? Certainly it could not be his actual views put into his stories because… he wrote them and when you write something that is what happens.
Thank you for covering this. It’s so funny for these comic book ‘fans’ to be upset over what Xmen is so known for
Because they are not real comic book fans, and I don't mean that in a gatekeeping kind of way. They pretend to be as part of the grift.
I really appreciate you suggesting disengagement as the best way of dealing with these guys - if they stop getting recommended, the lose their power :)
Mauler always finds a way into every chuddy podcast
Yeah he’s like the Pat Patterson of chuds. Always looking for a pay per view payday just by sneaking into the video.
John del Arroz being a Trump supporter while being Hispanic has to be tje funniest shit in this video
If he supports the oppressors maybe they’ll oppress someone else first.
American Catholicism thrives on this.
Jon Del Arroz is a W-Supremacist.
No the funny part is that there is actual people who care about what he has to say when there is all of us who don't care we're still going to watch the show because we loved it growing up to the show and will still watch it even if there are things others or we hate about the changes just like the true fans of star wars we stick by it even during the crappy phase because we don't care we still think the show is awesome
It's funny, as a minority kid, I always loved X-Men more than other stories because it was an allegory of the fight against bigotry.
But the aggrieved make a lot of money with their videos and are the loudest voices typically. That movement is strong.
Thanks for making these videos. Spot on.
Another fantastic video, thank you pillar of garbage for being a pillar of quality!
23:36 "ooooooooh what a tangled web we weave, first when practiced, to deceive"
It's very simple:
Ask them to define "woke".
You'll figure out it's actually just a term they use for something they dislike.
I mean its a little more defined then that but yeah so what? Its not something out of the dictionary its a meme/slang for identity politics. What does "fuck" mean if you tell someone to F off? Better stop saying that if you cant explain it perfectly i guess huh?
@@moe5020What does identity politics mean then?
@@zinkheroofyoutube8004 it means what it sounds like it means. Politics involving matters of identity like race, sexuality, religion, etc.
@@moe5020 And what does woke mean in relation to that?
@@zinkheroofyoutube8004 Woke is slang for someone obessessed with Identity politics who thinks they are more "awake" then normies. The term was originally coined by black civil rights activists and is now used ironically to mock modern activists. So if you don't like the word go find the now middle aged lefties that coined it and tell them their word sucks.
"Hey what's MauLer doing here" fucking dead lmao
_he can’t keep getting away with it!_
@PillarofGarbage Look maybe there's completely innocent reasons he's always found with "anti-woke" grifters. Perhaps they trapped him in some kind of box and only let him out to join their podcasts.
@@notrod5341 or he's such a useful idiot
Anti-normal people forget censorship of comics and cartoons was massive. They couldn’t directly say it without censors blocking or banning you.
The phrase "deviant sexualities" (highlighted at 8:20) kinda gives away the true viewpoint of the author of the article.
Like there veiws, Most of the time its just Grifts and Griffers all the way down.
Thank you - I had noticed a flurry of right wing talking heads all wanting to cut Social Security - and what was odd was that they were all doing it at the same time seemingly for no reason. Got me wondering who gave them that marching order and the pattern holds true in this scenario as well.