This is great to see. There aren't enough videos out there like this one that really go into the specific DETAILS of exactly what these (and other) surround sound formats actually do. We need more like this...MUCH more, actually.
To be honest I'm excited to see DTS get more involved in streaming. There needs to be an improvement on the streaming audio and only having dolby digital plus sucks brings no improvement and if DTS gets involved it would make things start moving.
@Ealan Osborne Great stuff as usual! I'd like to pick your brain if you don't mind. I have the klipsch reference theater pack set up in my home along with the denon AVR-S750, which is a 7.2 channel receiver. I'm loving it and it's an undertaking that I might not have had the confidence to attempt alone without your guidance and content. So, if I'd like to upgrade for dolby atmos, how many additional speakers will I need? Also, are there any you would recommend that would go well with my setup? Thank you for everything you do here and please keep up the amazing work. 👏
Yeah but dont you need to have wayyyyyyyy wayyyy more bandwidth for any of this to even Basically mean anything. I read streaming services only pass a very very small fraction of the bandwidth needed to actually have Atmos, dts x or dts x pro. From what I am understanding you pretty much get only enough bandwidth passing from these streaming services to barely allow real old school 5.1 Dolby Digital never mind atmos or Dolby true HD etc. Hake even the picture isnt really 4k too. Only 4k discs can allow this
@@user-bj1mx2ip1c the Bottleneck is the tv pass trough signal maxes out at 100 MBPs if the tv brands changing that to more possible would be great than the bottleneck is your provider from the internet !
@@edwardphilipmarianafzger9800 but when you watch a 4k blu ray on a good player you get more than that....isn't hdmi 2.1 48 gigs per second that is much more than 100 mbps....so the 4k picture and surround sound should all pass through just fine on your modern TV if it isn't a cheap crappy tv
Great review Thank you for the video big question what do you think of the new soundbars for 2023 from JBL, Samsung, LG, Nakamichi etc? all of these incorporate DTS-X format which if any of these since 99% of us can't afford to do a 32 speaker set up in our homes what's your thoughts? Thanks!!!!
I watched The Patriot on blu ray not long ago. Had a X4700H in a 7.1.4 setup and man it was good with the neural X upmixer. I'm definitely a fan of DTS. There seems to be more depth to their mixes over Atmos.
Don't use neutral or w/e it's up mixing it ... Use auto , that'll take the source mix , mixed by the studio. Up mixing is adding to what's there. Or is sending I where it believes it should go. Only use that on content that isn't 3d audio. Sorry my vocabulary is limited but look into what I say please . You're messing with the mix , which would be good on an ole DVD or games with no 3d audio I use it all the time but not when I'm on a source that has 3d audio.
I only have DTS-X and Dolby atmos on system. I won't be upgrading to DTS-X Pro. Since my current setup is a 5.1.2. I don't have the space to add more speakers at the moment.
Ealan, Thanks again for an excellent explanation on this subject… The reason I purchased the Marantz SR-8015 Was “I thought” I could run center height channels for Atmos… a height balance of speakers to the bed layer… 6 height, 6 bed layer plus center…(dummy me) not realizing Atmos seems to be based around 7.X.4… I can use the Up mixer but like you said, all it’s doing is putting cloned sounds into the center height channels…
Well, Atmos is rendered differently. And typically, only a native Auro 3D mix will account for a center height, so you would still be dealing with upmixing with Atmos. 🤷♂️ I like your thinking, though, wanting a center height to match having a center channel. 👍
@@ealanosborne Ealan could you do me a solid and recommend a 4K Blu-ray player? There’s only 2 RUclips channels I subscribe to, you and Audioholics… The only player I have heard Gene @Audioholics talk about is the oppo 205, and there is no way I’m spending that kind of money on a player…lol There has to be something out there a little cheaper that works well..
@@soundfactor3426 I personally use a budget LG UBK90. But I’d also recommend the 3 Panasonics on the market right now - the UB420, UB820 and UB9000, depending on how much you want to spend. 🤘
This has always fallen in the same debate for me as 8k video; there is a market for it, but it is so far beyond what most people need that is becomes more of a marketing tool than an actual need. I run a 7.1.4 and love the setup, would love to go to 9.1.6 some day, but don't see a major benefit right now, and might end my marriage :) Also, I loved your video on 2 vs 4 atmos speakers, would love to hear the same thing on 7 vs 9 bed layer surrounds. I've heard great things about the additional front wides.
On my Denon 4700X DTS-X can also support a VOG speaker. Found this when spaying around with a 7.2.5 setup for Auro. Not sure how it is really treating that on the back end.
I've been "on the fence" so to speak about this. I plan to do Atmos 9.4.4 in my basement but haven't settled on a pre-pro yet. The frontrunners for me are AVM70 (90), HTP-1 or RMC-1. None claim support (yet) for DTS:X Pro, even though they have processing for the 9 ch's of bed layer atmos. I want Wides and know that Atmos mixes may or may not have much going on there... but the "Pro" part of DTS:X gives me hope for a more immersive experience from DTS:X mixes when listening with the extra "wides". I don't really have any way to experiment with this yet... Also, companies aren't very 'forthcoming' on support for DTS:X Pro. I Think for RMC-1, that would be an "RMC-2"? Perhaps in August? (that's the rumor I heard). Hobie talked about working on DTS:X pro for HTP-1 recently, but there's no date on when/if that will be included. The website still says "June 2023" for more stock. AVM90 "might" have it? But not yet??? Also, it's 'quite a bit more' expensive than the AVM70, I assume the 70 won't ever have DTS:X Pro???? CLEAR AS MUDDDD!!!!!!
No kidding. So many variables. So many “promises.” Although I watched Jurassic World Dominion last week and put my ear to my front wides and there was definitely audio and music coming from them. So there are definitely DTS:X mixes that work with front wides, though it might not be “discrete” audio specifically for front wides. 🤷♂️ Better than no sound at all, which I experienced plenty of times with Atmos tracks.
@@ealanosborne I know there's no such thing as "future proof", but it seems that Atmos and DTS:X/Pro will only get better? I'd hate to get a processor and then feel like I "jumped the gun" without the DTS:X Pro ability. For me, that's the final feature I'm 'requiring' before a purchase. I think Denon already has this, but I don't want a consumer level unit either. I think this will shake out in the next few months (hopefully). I hope more brands adopt this feature soon!! I only have 1 row of seats... but I MUST HAVE WIDES ... (crazy laughter) muahhahah!!!!!!
@@off_key88 I get it! I had 1 couch in my testing theater until last week when I finally got a Valencia theater seat, and yet I still have a 9.3.4 setup FOR SCIENCE! 😄🤘
Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but what does all of this mean when tv's like Lg and Samsung don't support DTS:X? Will this affect the immersive/surround sound quality if you have an HT-A9, Q990b, or the upcoming Nakamichi Dragon for example? I believe Sony does support DTS:X. Thanks Ealan!
You’ll want to route your media streamer/blu ray player directly through your soundbar so you can get DTS:X processing. For stuff that goes through the tv and out eARC, you’ll be left with the 2nd best option after DTS:X when watching DTS content.
Yep. What they said. ☝️You’ll want to have a streamer that can connect directly into your soundbar (if it has HDMI inputs) or AVR, as opposed to watching things through your TV via eARC. If it’s connected directly to your soundbar or AVR, then the only thing going to the TV is picture.
In addition to connecting directly to the AVR or soundbar (as I do), some TVs may allow you to pass DTS bitstreams directly from HDMI inputs to eARC output; I'm doubt that requires a DTS license at all as the TV isn't doing anything to the audio except passing it on (much like an AVR or soundbar does with video). I do know LG, otherwise notorious for blocking DTS passthru, has menu settings that allow unmolested passthru of multichannel PCM (a big hidden issue with most other eARC TVs, including my own Vizio) and allegedly bitstreams to eARC, but I'm not sure if that includes DTS bitstreams.
Ealan, another insightful video--thanks for your many contributions to the cause. I'd like you to get into the details of the top two (consumer grade) players for home theater--Apple TV 4K and Nvidea Shield TV Pro. I have both and am still discovering the benefits and tradeoffs of using one or the other. PCM, lossless, Dolby Atmos/Auro 3D all sound unique depending on the player. I have a 7.4.4 system using a Marantz SR7015 to drive the height speakers and a McIntosh MC207 for the ear level speakers. Actually the rear surrounds are combined as the Marantz runs out of channels for 7.x.4. It seems that the Nvidea uses the height channels on an AAC 7.1 soundtrack and not the rear surrounds. The Apple uses the opposite. Basically, I never get full use of all of my speakers. Am I missing something?
Unfortunately I don’t think your missing anything. I think it’s just the sad truth about the limitations of streamers. While they are convenient and getting better each year - when it comes to audio - your best bet with utilizing all your speakers and getting the best audio possible is still a dedicated 4K Blu-ray player. One day steamers will catch up, but until then, I don’t think they were ever meant to replace an AVR completely when the concept of a streamer was first introduced to the general consumers market. 😭
Nice video. Can you explain (a) why DTSxPro won't sound better than DTX? (b) why we need multiple rows to appreciate? even with 1 row of seating won't hearing the sound come from more discrete locations sound better?
I mentioned that the actual sound quality itself - the audio signal - won’t sound any better. It all stems from a DTS:X mix. But yes, it WILL sound more immersive (and also “better”) if you have more speakers surrounding you, filling in more gaps, and encompassing you more if you have a 9.2.6 setup decoded by DTS:X Pro, for example.
IMAX Enhanced is like an added layer to the DTS:X codec. You can’t have IMAX Enhanced without DTS:X. Think of it as if Dolby Vision came out with a Dolby Vision+ or Enhanced, you still couldn’t have it without having a Dolby Vision baseline first.
I had a 5.1.6 that I liked but wanted the rest of the channels in Auro3D but my denon 3800 was maxed. So I bought a 2nd 3800h and sent the hdmi out to it. I was then able to set the amps to make it 7.8.8 auro 3D, and it great for me.
at 6:07 - i understand that there may not be a specific dts:x pro mixes, but dts:x uses the dtsx pro gear to support speakers beyond 7.1.4. so far so clear. but in the specifications of the dts:x pro, it says it supports 2 individual LFE mixes. means its not equal to a avr/prepro feature that says independent subwoofer configuration, but it is like the audio mix itself would have two separate LFE channels. it leads to new case where a dtsx pro mix will be there. what do you say about this EO.
That’s true even now with AVRs like Marantz or your higher end Denons - that have subwoofer channels that can be adjusted independently, as opposed to one subwoofer channel that is split between two ports (like a Denon S760h). So it’s still just a matter of the processing capabilities of the AVR and how well it manages the LFE channel(s).
Coming from the ole simple days of DD 5.1 or my preferred DTS 5.1 on my AV receiver, I recently upgraded to an X4700H and to be honest been struggling to understand what processing format is ideal, I like a one-button-does-all. I have refreshed the speakers in a 7.1.4 setup and have been looking for something to make it shine. Thanks for the informative video
I found myself in the same boat as you when I got the denon 3800 a few months ago and went through each atmos, dts X and Auro 3D upmixer and samples lots of movies I was very familiar with and spent the time turning each speaker up and down on a 5.1.6 setup. I easily came to the conclusion the auro3d with top height (vog=voice of god) setup was best for me.
I have today a 5.1 setup (ten yrs old Yamaha AVR and speakers set). I have been considering an upgrade to 5.1.2 or 5.1.4, so in need of a new AVR and height speakers as well. Not even 7.x.x because of the limits in my space.. The more number of channels/speakers added to the system, the bigger/larger space is required. More than 9 or 11 channels is for real enthusiasts who might afford it too, or for local theaters as you too have mentioned in the video... Let me go back and continue to check some reviews on Marantz Cinema 50 :))
DTS:X is the Codec. The Decoding Processor has it's own limits and channel count as seen below: DTS:X processing: 11.1 DTS:X Pro processing: 30.2 Dolby Atmos processing: 24.1.10, and there are programs from Dolby that handle 128 objects (including 118 dynamic object and 10 beds) for macOS and Windows. Dolby Atmos is vastly more supported and not limited by your hardware/software "supporting" DTS:X Pro. Example: My JBL SDP-55 doesn't support DTS:X Pro (yet?) and so Front Wides aren't used in DTS:X mixes. But if I play a DTS-MA HD 7.1 track, then I can use DTS Neural:X and upmix to Front Wides. Isn't that stupid? In the meantime Dolby Atmos can use all of my 9.1.6 speakers no problem.
@@Eurica76 This is what I've heard: This is due to Disney being the minority and mixing height objects wrong. They place objects in the center of the 4 standard, like they're mixing for 7.1.2, so if you have 6 (middle heights) it plays through those middle heights only. If you have 4 heights, it plays through all 4 to phantom center the middle height. So it has nothing to do with the technology, and everything to do with how they're mixing it.
@@andrewskaterrr Thank you I been trying to find this answer for months. So watching Disney titles with Atmos it's best I disconnect my top middles if I'm running 6 Atmos in my theater?
@@Eurica76 that's up to you, but you would have to have 2 separate calibrations with different channels counts, so that's up to your AVR. I will just leave mine on 9.4.6 when I get mine installed sometime soon....hopefully...
@@ealanosborne I know Nakamichi said in its intro video for the Dragon that it had to license Dolby's full AVR Atmos decoder instead of its soundbar Atmos decoder. (I haven't watched your "it's not a soundbar" video yet but I suspect that's the basis for it.) That implies the speaker limit of the soundbar Atmos decoder is lower than the Dragon's configuration, more like that of existing Nakamichi Atmos soundbars.
By the way I have a TCL which is 4k HDR tv which I have connected an old avr which supports Dolby digital and dts surround Dolby digital works when I connected optical.cable But dts digital surround doesn't show up on my avr Like my avr shows that it is getting a Dolby digital signal When I play a dts file it doesn't show up i even tried different dts Audio formats but none shows And also the tv shows Dolby digital audio signal all time even if I'm playing a stereo file or a video Please help me
@@ealanosborne noo like i have a CD with dts 5.1 digital surround sound, i use plex and vlc in my tv to play the files i want a perfect solution by wich i can play dts sound files in my avr dolby digital works fine with the tv but dts doesnt show up
Funny that you should ask that because I am experiencing the same thing… when I’m streaming I can only select Dolby Atmos or multi speaker stereo… I think that has to do with streaming vs DVD/Blu-ray disk where you can select which audio/video format the disk has on it…
Hmm…I’m not sure if that’s a software limitation of Yamaha AVRs, but my Marantz has an audio select button that brings up a menu where I can choose Atmos or DTS Neural X or Auro 3D Upmixing or All Channel Stereo 🤷♂️
I’m just gonna put it out there since you did mention you recently went with a change to your videos…..man……not sure I’m feeling this close up look. I think it’s too close. Just saying maybe widen up just a tad. 🤷♂️
I'm just going to say it, the up close camera makes him look like Doctor strange meets heroin addiction. With the music choice also, lol, whole thing kept giving me a commercial for a rehab vibe.
How popular is DTS:X? Dolby atmos feels like the standard that every new movie and even many TV shows are using and if they already have an Atmos mix does it even matter to have DTS X/DTS X pro?
Dolby Atmos has dominated the streaming market, for sure. But most Blu-rays for the past decade or so have always been mastered in DTS-HD Master Audio. Although with Disney Plus adopting DTS:X/IMAX Enhanced audio, I think others streaming platforms will follow suit fairly soon. Just a matter of time before they're both available in equal parts.
I count 136 movies that have DTS:X, that's not many. I think I only have a few of them. If a movie already has an Atmos mix then there's no reason to have a DTS:X mix.
Dts needs a strong comeback....dts is a part of nostalgia for 90s movie goers... But Dolby surpassed them in modern world... But still dts is remembered for theater experience in 90s and 00s
Thanks for sharing that history. I bet 99% of the population doesn't know that. I certainly did not. Rooting for more competition in higher-end audio options for those who watch most of their content via streaming services.
For my computer, I use the Dolby Atmos for Home Theater spatial setting. I wanted to try the DTS X one but you have to pay for it so I was like meh. But most games are in Atmos and not DTS X so I never felt like I was missing out. Also, games in Atmos are awesome.
@@carlcameron3524 I’ve got a few, all six Jurassic Park movies come to mind. Come to think of it, I think they’re the only movies I have that are in DTS X. Still sounds good though. I’ve just noticed Cyberpunk 2077 and Shadow of the Tomb Raider are to games in Dolby Atmos that sound amazing. I think games are better than movies because it’s all happening in the engine vs someone at the mixing studio’s version of what should be. I was really disappointed in the 4K Indiana Jones movies.
Any update on when IMAX Audio/Sound is actually going to be made available via ANY streaming services? For that matter what about DTS-X Pro? Hate to be cynical but DTS has a horrible track record of over-promising but yet under-delivering (or simply not delivering at all)
do you have a discord for your fans ive been a fan for a while and i really want to say thank you for everything you helped me with i learned a lot from you THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN!
Is dts x pro an optional upmixer like neural x therefore able to use it on Dolby content too or can it only be selected when the avr detects a native dts x mix?
DTS:X Pro is only necessary (and only supported) when you have a system larger than 7.x.4. So it’s not really an upmixer, it’s just a more powerful, precise decoder when dealing with extra large configurations. That’s why you’ll only find DTS:X Pro on AVRs & preamps that support at least 13 channels. 🙌
@@ealanosborne I recently bought top middles to see if they would be worth the upgrade from four to six. I like it, so now I have to upgrade to the 6700, I currently own the 4700. Although I’ve been aware of dts x pro’s existence, I’ve only now learned that it renders audio differently vs dtsx/neural x not to mention their limitations. So with that being said, it makes want to pull the trigger on the 6700. Do you have experience with six heights?
@@xanderx9988 I’ve had 6 heights for a little while now, although I haven’t truly “tested” 6 vs 4 heights. I’ve just been enjoying movies that way. But I plan on breaking down 6 vs 4 in a video fairly soon. 😁🎉
@@ealanosborne That would be appreciated. There are multiple Audio RUclipsrs yet so far I’ve only found ONE guy who has covered this topic lol and that’s only one person’s opinion and perspective, I’m sure there are many others including myself that would like to know other audiophiles opinions on the matter👍 Btw, thanks to your aperion a5 video, I was finally able to find a suitable pair of front heights for my living room last year. It was a huge pain trying to find a pair for the dilemma I had at the time. Their versatility saved me, Thanks! 🙏
I just heard a DTS:X movie for the first time. Jurassic Park Dominion and it sounded............. great! on my 7.1.2 system. I didn't know there was an Atmos competition (object based).
I have not seen yet dts x pro. Dts x is on my reciver. You need more speakers. We see when it comes. I am happy now whit my SR 8015 from marantz dolby atmos dts x auro 3 D
I don’t need more than one row of seats to Need/Want more speakers ALL around me, in this case more is better, no such thing as too many speakers 😬🔊 Not for me..Thank You for the explanation 👈🏼
To be frank I don't think it's because of rich folk the demand is there as rich folk always were rich and could just afford the high channel home theater.... It's because technology itself is getting cheaper and more viable to the general masses. The speaker technology is at its stagnation point. Where there aren't big improvements year after year and thus sound that was worth 2000e maybe 10 years ago now is worth 200-300e and that is like holy grail for the mainstream and for the home theater to grow. As suddenly you have speaker sound clarity and dynamic range as well as frequency response to go up to 105 dB required by Home theater for small to medium sized rooms. I mean like just for the subwoofer when could you have afforded 300-500$ subwoofer that growls sub 20hz at room bending volumes? I mean sure a 10 grand audio equipment worth is of course gonna kick it out of the park compared to 2 grand multi channel audio equipment but again... When you just listen to 2 grand multi channel audio system without hearing 10 grand you'd still go like "that's god damn impressive". I'm glad that technology is reaching mainstream more and more... Because it's just that glorious.
I swear thus will sound crazy 🤪 but ... It seems to work best on 2ch ... I once heard a demo in 2ch they were sending sounds moving all around me , in headphones. It was wild af! 😜 by pushing on different spots of speaker cone produces different frequency and maybe different directions........
True, I mean we are binaural creatures, so headphones should be the way to go, or at least simulating a headphone setup while being surrounded by speakers. 🤷♂️ Apparently that’s essentially what Dirac Live’s new Active Room Treatment does.
You confirmed what I found out the hard way about "Maverick". I watched it last night(4K Dolby Vision) It didn't have great sound. I was disappointed, to say the least. Tron: Legacy that I watched the night before on Bluray sounded much better. As far as DTS X goes, I prefer Atmos. I've always liked to use the DTS soundtrack over Dolby, when available, but Atmos and X changed that for me. Now, if I see a movie has a DTS X soundtrack, I usually skip it(unless it's something I really want to see) Just my .02 cents.
you have a great voice over voice! if you would make other types of video as well as Audio videos etc! you got something incredible! Thank you for the insight of DTS X pro :)
This is great to see. There aren't enough videos out there like this one that really go into the specific DETAILS of exactly what these (and other) surround sound formats actually do. We need more like this...MUCH more, actually.
Thanks for the kind words! 🙌
Never ending story!! Future Ealan FTW!!
Haha! FALKOR!
That was honestly a legit informative video. Keep up the great work!!
Thank you!!!
To be honest I'm excited to see DTS get more involved in streaming. There needs to be an improvement on the streaming audio and only having dolby digital plus sucks brings no improvement and if DTS gets involved it would make things start moving.
I sure hope so. That’s my wish, too. 🤞
@Ealan Osborne Great stuff as usual! I'd like to pick your brain if you don't mind. I have the klipsch reference theater pack set up in my home along with the denon AVR-S750, which is a 7.2 channel receiver. I'm loving it and it's an undertaking that I might not have had the confidence to attempt alone without your guidance and content. So, if I'd like to upgrade for dolby atmos, how many additional speakers will I need? Also, are there any you would recommend that would go well with my setup?
Thank you for everything you do here and please keep up the amazing work. 👏
Yeah but dont you need to have wayyyyyyyy wayyyy more bandwidth for any of this to even Basically mean anything. I read streaming services only pass a very very small fraction of the bandwidth needed to actually have Atmos, dts x or dts x pro. From what I am understanding you pretty much get only enough bandwidth passing from these streaming services to barely allow real old school 5.1 Dolby Digital never mind atmos or Dolby true HD etc. Hake even the picture isnt really 4k too. Only 4k discs can allow this
@@user-bj1mx2ip1c the Bottleneck is the tv pass trough signal maxes out at 100 MBPs if the tv brands changing that to more possible would be great than the bottleneck is your provider from the internet !
@@edwardphilipmarianafzger9800 but when you watch a 4k blu ray on a good player you get more than that....isn't hdmi 2.1 48 gigs per second that is much more than 100 mbps....so the 4k picture and surround sound should all pass through just fine on your modern TV if it isn't a cheap crappy tv
Great review Thank you for the video big question what do you think of the new soundbars for 2023 from JBL, Samsung, LG, Nakamichi etc? all of these incorporate DTS-X format which if any of these since 99% of us can't afford to do a 32 speaker set up in our homes what's your thoughts? Thanks!!!!
Thank you for giving us a clear understanding comparing the two..
Planning on getting the new sound bar with dtx pro... yes ..can't wait 😉
the dragon?
I watched The Patriot on blu ray not long ago. Had a X4700H in a 7.1.4 setup and man it was good with the neural X upmixer. I'm definitely a fan of DTS. There seems to be more depth to their mixes over Atmos.
Don't use neutral or w/e it's up mixing it ... Use auto , that'll take the source mix , mixed by the studio.
Up mixing is adding to what's there.
Or is sending I where it believes it should go.
Only use that on content that isn't 3d audio.
Sorry my vocabulary is limited but look into what I say please .
You're messing with the mix , which would be good on an ole DVD or games with no 3d audio
I use it all the time but not when I'm on a source that has 3d audio.
@@nflisrigged1395 it was a 7.1 DTS Master Audio mix and with Neural X it upmixed to use my height channels. It sounded great.
@@nflisrigged1395 how can i use auto in my reciver
Actually I think most of the audience heard about it recently when NAKAMICHI brought it up with their new Sound Bar.
Some will argue that a smaller well executed 7.1.4 room offers a more immersive experience on a more intimate level.
I only have DTS-X and Dolby atmos on system. I won't be upgrading to DTS-X Pro. Since my current setup is a 5.1.2. I don't have the space to add more speakers at the moment.
Ealan, Thanks again for an excellent explanation on this subject…
The reason I purchased the Marantz SR-8015 Was “I thought” I could run center height channels for Atmos… a height balance of speakers to the bed layer… 6 height, 6 bed layer plus center…(dummy me) not realizing Atmos seems to be based around 7.X.4…
I can use the Up mixer but like you said, all it’s doing is putting cloned sounds into the center height channels…
Well, Atmos is rendered differently. And typically, only a native Auro 3D mix will account for a center height, so you would still be dealing with upmixing with Atmos. 🤷♂️ I like your thinking, though, wanting a center height to match having a center channel. 👍
@@ealanosborne
Ealan could you do me a solid and recommend a 4K Blu-ray player?
There’s only 2 RUclips channels I subscribe to, you and Audioholics…
The only player I have heard Gene @Audioholics talk about is the oppo 205,
and there is no way I’m spending that kind of money on a player…lol
There has to be something out there a little cheaper that works well..
@@soundfactor3426 I personally use a budget LG UBK90. But I’d also recommend the 3 Panasonics on the market right now - the UB420, UB820 and UB9000, depending on how much you want to spend. 🤘
This has always fallen in the same debate for me as 8k video; there is a market for it, but it is so far beyond what most people need that is becomes more of a marketing tool than an actual need. I run a 7.1.4 and love the setup, would love to go to 9.1.6 some day, but don't see a major benefit right now, and might end my marriage :) Also, I loved your video on 2 vs 4 atmos speakers, would love to hear the same thing on 7 vs 9 bed layer surrounds. I've heard great things about the additional front wides.
I do plan on doing that comparison soon! 🤘
@@ealanosborne Awesome.. Im prepping for 9.4.6 with New Denon AVR-A1H would love more info on pluses & minus'. ThankS for your great content!!
That guy Shane is trouble.
Haha! YEAH he is! 😄
On my Denon 4700X DTS-X can also support a VOG speaker. Found this when spaying around with a 7.2.5 setup for Auro. Not sure how it is really treating that on the back end.
I've been "on the fence" so to speak about this. I plan to do Atmos 9.4.4 in my basement but haven't settled on a pre-pro yet. The frontrunners for me are AVM70 (90), HTP-1 or RMC-1. None claim support (yet) for DTS:X Pro, even though they have processing for the 9 ch's of bed layer atmos. I want Wides and know that Atmos mixes may or may not have much going on there... but the "Pro" part of DTS:X gives me hope for a more immersive experience from DTS:X mixes when listening with the extra "wides". I don't really have any way to experiment with this yet... Also, companies aren't very 'forthcoming' on support for DTS:X Pro. I Think for RMC-1, that would be an "RMC-2"? Perhaps in August? (that's the rumor I heard). Hobie talked about working on DTS:X pro for HTP-1 recently, but there's no date on when/if that will be included. The website still says "June 2023" for more stock. AVM90 "might" have it? But not yet??? Also, it's 'quite a bit more' expensive than the AVM70, I assume the 70 won't ever have DTS:X Pro???? CLEAR AS MUDDDD!!!!!!
No kidding. So many variables. So many “promises.” Although I watched Jurassic World Dominion last week and put my ear to my front wides and there was definitely audio and music coming from them. So there are definitely DTS:X mixes that work with front wides, though it might not be “discrete” audio specifically for front wides. 🤷♂️ Better than no sound at all, which I experienced plenty of times with Atmos tracks.
@@ealanosborne I know there's no such thing as "future proof", but it seems that Atmos and DTS:X/Pro will only get better? I'd hate to get a processor and then feel like I "jumped the gun" without the DTS:X Pro ability. For me, that's the final feature I'm 'requiring' before a purchase. I think Denon already has this, but I don't want a consumer level unit either. I think this will shake out in the next few months (hopefully). I hope more brands adopt this feature soon!! I only have 1 row of seats... but I MUST HAVE WIDES ... (crazy laughter) muahhahah!!!!!!
@@off_key88 I get it! I had 1 couch in my testing theater until last week when I finally got a Valencia theater seat, and yet I still have a 9.3.4 setup FOR SCIENCE! 😄🤘
Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but what does all of this mean when tv's like Lg and Samsung don't support DTS:X? Will this affect the immersive/surround sound quality if you have an HT-A9, Q990b, or the upcoming Nakamichi Dragon for example? I believe Sony does support DTS:X. Thanks Ealan!
You’ll want to route your media streamer/blu ray player directly through your soundbar so you can get DTS:X processing.
For stuff that goes through the tv and out eARC, you’ll be left with the 2nd best option after DTS:X when watching DTS content.
Yep. What they said. ☝️You’ll want to have a streamer that can connect directly into your soundbar (if it has HDMI inputs) or AVR, as opposed to watching things through your TV via eARC. If it’s connected directly to your soundbar or AVR, then the only thing going to the TV is picture.
In addition to connecting directly to the AVR or soundbar (as I do), some TVs may allow you to pass DTS bitstreams directly from HDMI inputs to eARC output; I'm doubt that requires a DTS license at all as the TV isn't doing anything to the audio except passing it on (much like an AVR or soundbar does with video). I do know LG, otherwise notorious for blocking DTS passthru, has menu settings that allow unmolested passthru of multichannel PCM (a big hidden issue with most other eARC TVs, including my own Vizio) and allegedly bitstreams to eARC, but I'm not sure if that includes DTS bitstreams.
Ealan, another insightful video--thanks for your many contributions to the cause.
I'd like you to get into the details of the top two (consumer grade) players for home theater--Apple TV 4K and Nvidea Shield TV Pro. I have both and am still discovering the benefits and tradeoffs of using one or the other. PCM, lossless, Dolby Atmos/Auro 3D all sound unique depending on the player. I have a 7.4.4 system using a Marantz SR7015 to drive the height speakers and a McIntosh MC207 for the ear level speakers. Actually the rear surrounds are combined as the Marantz runs out of channels for 7.x.4. It seems that the Nvidea uses the height channels on an AAC 7.1 soundtrack and not the rear surrounds. The Apple uses the opposite. Basically, I never get full use of all of my speakers. Am I missing something?
Unfortunately I don’t think your missing anything. I think it’s just the sad truth about the limitations of streamers. While they are convenient and getting better each year - when it comes to audio - your best bet with utilizing all your speakers and getting the best audio possible is still a dedicated 4K Blu-ray player. One day steamers will catch up, but until then, I don’t think they were ever meant to replace an AVR completely when the concept of a streamer was first introduced to the general consumers market. 😭
@@ealanosborne I agree. It's an opportunity to explain something that I haven't been able to determine. I imagine others might wonder as well.
fantastic content bro. my fav home theater channel on RUclips!
Nice video. Can you explain (a) why DTSxPro won't sound better than DTX? (b) why we need multiple rows to appreciate? even with 1 row of seating won't hearing the sound come from more discrete locations sound better?
I mentioned that the actual sound quality itself - the audio signal - won’t sound any better. It all stems from a DTS:X mix. But yes, it WILL sound more immersive (and also “better”) if you have more speakers surrounding you, filling in more gaps, and encompassing you more if you have a 9.2.6 setup decoded by DTS:X Pro, for example.
@@ealanosborne gotcha, thx
So I’m understanding this is a better DTS upmixer for the right setup? Where does Imax Enhanced come in?
IMAX Enhanced is like an added layer to the DTS:X codec. You can’t have IMAX Enhanced without DTS:X. Think of it as if Dolby Vision came out with a Dolby Vision+ or Enhanced, you still couldn’t have it without having a Dolby Vision baseline first.
I had a 5.1.6 that I liked but wanted the rest of the channels in Auro3D but my denon 3800 was maxed. So I bought a 2nd 3800h and sent the hdmi out to it. I was then able to set the amps to make it 7.8.8 auro 3D, and it great for me.
Daaaaaaaang!
Your using 8 subs??? Dang!
How ?
@@MrWgk like I said, stick the hdmi cable from one to the other, it passes the signal through.
please explain better how you did that please please
So if a movie is encoded with DTS:X and you have more speakers can you get DTS:X Pro advantages?
Exactly, as long as you have a system larger than 7.x.4 and an AVR that supports DTS:X Pro 👍
Hi Bro
Please suggest which is best Soundbar DTS X and Dolby Atmos Support????
Samsung’s flagship Q990B. 🤘
at 6:07 - i understand that there may not be a specific dts:x pro mixes, but dts:x uses the dtsx pro gear to support speakers beyond 7.1.4. so far so clear. but in the specifications of the dts:x pro, it says it supports 2 individual LFE mixes. means its not equal to a avr/prepro feature that says independent subwoofer configuration, but it is like the audio mix itself would have two separate LFE channels. it leads to new case where a dtsx pro mix will be there. what do you say about this EO.
That’s true even now with AVRs like Marantz or your higher end Denons - that have subwoofer channels that can be adjusted independently, as opposed to one subwoofer channel that is split between two ports (like a Denon S760h).
So it’s still just a matter of the processing capabilities of the AVR and how well it manages the LFE channel(s).
Love your new Batman voice. :) "I'm Ealan Man!"
Haha, thanks!
Coming from the ole simple days of DD 5.1 or my preferred DTS 5.1 on my AV receiver, I recently upgraded to an X4700H and to be honest been struggling to understand what processing format is ideal, I like a one-button-does-all. I have refreshed the speakers in a 7.1.4 setup and have been looking for something to make it shine. Thanks for the informative video
I found myself in the same boat as you when I got the denon 3800 a few months ago and went through each atmos, dts X and Auro 3D upmixer and samples lots of movies I was very familiar with and spent the time turning each speaker up and down on a 5.1.6 setup. I easily came to the conclusion the auro3d with top height (vog=voice of god) setup was best for me.
Hai
What’s your take on Kef q series vs kliptch RP series for a home theatre set up ?
Denon AVR 1603
And a 5.1 sound setup
With a TCL 4k HDR 76" TV
I have today a 5.1 setup (ten yrs old Yamaha AVR and speakers set). I have been considering an upgrade to 5.1.2 or 5.1.4, so in need of a new AVR and height speakers as well. Not even 7.x.x because of the limits in my space.. The more number of channels/speakers added to the system, the bigger/larger space is required. More than 9 or 11 channels is for real enthusiasts who might afford it too, or for local theaters as you too have mentioned in the video... Let me go back and continue to check some reviews on Marantz Cinema 50 :))
That Cinema 50 is a good one!
If your gonna upgrade aim for the 4 height speakers. 5.1.4 minimum.
DTS:X is the Codec. The Decoding Processor has it's own limits and channel count as seen below:
DTS:X processing: 11.1
DTS:X Pro processing: 30.2
Dolby Atmos processing: 24.1.10, and there are programs from Dolby that handle 128 objects (including 118 dynamic object and 10 beds) for macOS and Windows.
Dolby Atmos is vastly more supported and not limited by your hardware/software "supporting" DTS:X Pro.
Example: My JBL SDP-55 doesn't support DTS:X Pro (yet?) and so Front Wides aren't used in DTS:X mixes. But if I play a DTS-MA HD 7.1 track, then I can use DTS Neural:X and upmix to Front Wides. Isn't that stupid? In the meantime Dolby Atmos can use all of my 9.1.6 speakers no problem.
Awesome breakdown! Thanks for your insight. 🤘
So why do people report issues playing back most Disney titles with more than 4 Atmos channels? Disney titles are mixed with Dolby.
@@Eurica76 This is what I've heard: This is due to Disney being the minority and mixing height objects wrong. They place objects in the center of the 4 standard, like they're mixing for 7.1.2, so if you have 6 (middle heights) it plays through those middle heights only. If you have 4 heights, it plays through all 4 to phantom center the middle height. So it has nothing to do with the technology, and everything to do with how they're mixing it.
@@andrewskaterrr Thank you I been trying to find this answer for months. So watching Disney titles with Atmos it's best I disconnect my top middles if I'm running 6 Atmos in my theater?
@@Eurica76 that's up to you, but you would have to have 2 separate calibrations with different channels counts, so that's up to your AVR. I will just leave mine on 9.4.6 when I get mine installed sometime soon....hopefully...
Will Auro 3D remain a niche product or grow?
I'm super curious, so if DTSX PRO allows for 32 channels of discrete audio, how many channels do the soundbar ATMOS and the AVR ATMOS allow?
Supposedly the AVR Atmos can already support up to 24 ear-level, and 10 height channels (and LFE). I have no idea about soundbar Atmos.
@@ealanosborne Thanks! I was super curious!
@@ealanosborne I know Nakamichi said in its intro video for the Dragon that it had to license Dolby's full AVR Atmos decoder instead of its soundbar Atmos decoder. (I haven't watched your "it's not a soundbar" video yet but I suspect that's the basis for it.) That implies the speaker limit of the soundbar Atmos decoder is lower than the Dragon's configuration, more like that of existing Nakamichi Atmos soundbars.
By the way I have a TCL which is 4k HDR tv which I have connected an old avr which supports Dolby digital and dts surround
Dolby digital works when I connected optical.cable
But dts digital surround doesn't show up on my avr
Like my avr shows that it is getting a Dolby digital signal
When I play a dts file it doesn't show up i even tried different dts Audio formats but none shows
And also the tv shows Dolby digital audio signal all time even if I'm playing a stereo file or a video
Please help me
Most streamers and TVs only support Dolby Atmos (for now). It’s possible the only way you might watch anything in DTS is on a Blu-ray disc. 🤷♂️
@@ealanosborne noo like i have a CD with dts 5.1 digital surround sound,
i use plex and vlc in my tv to play the files
i want a perfect solution by wich i can play dts sound files in my avr
dolby digital works fine with the tv but dts doesnt show up
How do you tell the amp that you want to use DTS:X when it also has Dolby Atmos? It seems my Yamaha receiver only does Atmos.
Funny that you should ask that because I am experiencing the same thing… when I’m streaming I can only select Dolby Atmos or multi speaker stereo…
I think that has to do with streaming vs DVD/Blu-ray disk where you can select which audio/video format the disk has on it…
Hmm…I’m not sure if that’s a software limitation of Yamaha AVRs, but my Marantz has an audio select button that brings up a menu where I can choose Atmos or DTS Neural X or Auro 3D Upmixing or All Channel Stereo 🤷♂️
I’m just gonna put it out there since you did mention you recently went with a change to your videos…..man……not sure I’m feeling this close up look. I think it’s too close. Just saying maybe widen up just a tad. 🤷♂️
I'm just going to say it, the up close camera makes him look like Doctor strange meets heroin addiction. With the music choice also, lol, whole thing kept giving me a commercial for a rehab vibe.
How popular is DTS:X? Dolby atmos feels like the standard that every new movie and even many TV shows are using and if they already have an Atmos mix does it even matter to have DTS X/DTS X pro?
Dolby Atmos has dominated the streaming market, for sure. But most Blu-rays for the past decade or so have always been mastered in DTS-HD Master Audio. Although with Disney Plus adopting DTS:X/IMAX Enhanced audio, I think others streaming platforms will follow suit fairly soon. Just a matter of time before they're both available in equal parts.
I count 136 movies that have DTS:X, that's not many. I think I only have a few of them. If a movie already has an Atmos mix then there's no reason to have a DTS:X mix.
Must be cleaning day at the Osbornes. Nice video though. Thanks for clearing that up.
Dts needs a strong comeback....dts is a part of nostalgia for 90s movie goers... But Dolby surpassed them in modern world... But still dts is remembered for theater experience in 90s and 00s
I hope so too!
Thanks for sharing that history. I bet 99% of the population doesn't know that. I certainly did not. Rooting for more competition in higher-end audio options for those who watch most of their content via streaming services.
For my computer, I use the Dolby Atmos for Home Theater spatial setting. I wanted to try the DTS X one but you have to pay for it so I was like meh. But most games are in Atmos and not DTS X so I never felt like I was missing out. Also, games in Atmos are awesome.
There aren’t a lot of movies that output in DTS X. I had to look up some titles that are encoded in DTS X.
@@carlcameron3524 I’ve got a few, all six Jurassic Park movies come to mind. Come to think of it, I think they’re the only movies I have that are in DTS X. Still sounds good though. I’ve just noticed Cyberpunk 2077 and Shadow of the Tomb Raider are to games in Dolby Atmos that sound amazing. I think games are better than movies because it’s all happening in the engine vs someone at the mixing studio’s version of what should be. I was really disappointed in the 4K Indiana Jones movies.
Any update on when IMAX Audio/Sound is actually going to be made available via ANY streaming services? For that matter what about DTS-X Pro?
Hate to be cynical but DTS has a horrible track record of over-promising but yet under-delivering (or simply not delivering at all)
No update yet. 😭
X Pro wears a nice tie. X is gonna give it to ya.
DMX? 😀
@@ealanosborne No doubt no doubt
do you have a discord for your fans ive been a fan for a while and i really want to say thank you for everything you helped me with i learned a lot from you THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN!
I don’t have a discord…YET! Although I am releasing a video soon about some slight changes to my channel. Stay tuned! 😁
Is dts x pro an optional upmixer like neural x therefore able to use it on Dolby content too or can it only be selected when the avr detects a native dts x mix?
DTS:X Pro is only necessary (and only supported) when you have a system larger than 7.x.4. So it’s not really an upmixer, it’s just a more powerful, precise decoder when dealing with extra large configurations. That’s why you’ll only find DTS:X Pro on AVRs & preamps that support at least 13 channels. 🙌
@@ealanosborne I recently bought top middles to see if they would be worth the upgrade from four to six. I like it, so now I have to upgrade to the 6700, I currently own the 4700.
Although I’ve been aware of dts x pro’s existence, I’ve only now learned that it renders audio differently vs dtsx/neural x not to mention their limitations.
So with that being said, it makes want to pull the trigger on the 6700.
Do you have experience with six heights?
@@xanderx9988 I’ve had 6 heights for a little while now, although I haven’t truly “tested” 6 vs 4 heights. I’ve just been enjoying movies that way. But I plan on breaking down 6 vs 4 in a video fairly soon. 😁🎉
@@ealanosborne That would be appreciated. There are multiple Audio RUclipsrs yet so far I’ve only found ONE guy who has covered this topic lol and that’s only one person’s opinion and perspective, I’m sure there are many others including myself that would like to know other audiophiles opinions on the matter👍
Btw, thanks to your aperion a5 video, I was finally able to find a suitable pair of front heights for my living room last year. It was a huge pain trying to find a pair for the dilemma I had at the time. Their versatility saved me, Thanks! 🙏
@@xanderx9988 That’s great to hear! 🎉
You did it again, great video!
Thank you!!!
Great job your 100% right! 😎👍
I just heard a DTS:X movie for the first time. Jurassic Park Dominion and it sounded............. great! on my 7.1.2 system. I didn't know there was an Atmos competition (object based).
Yeah! All the Jurassic franchise mixes are in DTS:X. 🎉 Atmos has monopolized the streaming game, but DTS:X is still cropping up on some 4K Blu-rays. 🙌
Excellent very informative and complete knowledge in a nutshell 👏 👍 👌 keep it up.
Thank you!! 🤘
@@ealanosborne welcome 🙏 🤗
Please give us more information about the best 3D sound AVRs of 2023.
I have not seen yet dts x pro. Dts x is on my reciver. You need more speakers. We see when it comes. I am happy now whit my SR 8015 from marantz dolby atmos dts x auro 3 D
Technically the SR8015 supports DTS:X Pro with a firmware update. Although I’m not sure if that has been released yet…
Good video Elan
I don’t need more than one row of seats to Need/Want more speakers ALL around me, in this case more is better, no such thing as too many speakers 😬🔊
Not for me..Thank You for the explanation 👈🏼
You’re welcome!
I like Auro-3D. DTS Pro is great however not all AVRs or Processors supports DTS Pro.
Yeah DTS-X Pro is only on the high end receivers right now. It’s very niche right now and not found on very much hardware.
Cool video.
Explained it well
Thank you! 😁🤘
To be frank I don't think it's because of rich folk the demand is there as rich folk always were rich and could just afford the high channel home theater....
It's because technology itself is getting cheaper and more viable to the general masses. The speaker technology is at its stagnation point. Where there aren't big improvements year after year and thus sound that was worth 2000e maybe 10 years ago now is worth 200-300e and that is like holy grail for the mainstream and for the home theater to grow.
As suddenly you have speaker sound clarity and dynamic range as well as frequency response to go up to 105 dB required by Home theater for small to medium sized rooms. I mean like just for the subwoofer when could you have afforded 300-500$ subwoofer that growls sub 20hz at room bending volumes?
I mean sure a 10 grand audio equipment worth is of course gonna kick it out of the park compared to 2 grand multi channel audio equipment but again... When you just listen to 2 grand multi channel audio system without hearing 10 grand you'd still go like "that's god damn impressive".
I'm glad that technology is reaching mainstream more and more... Because it's just that glorious.
I swear thus will sound crazy 🤪 but ...
It seems to work best on 2ch ...
I once heard a demo in 2ch they were sending sounds moving all around me , in headphones.
It was wild af! 😜 by pushing on different spots of speaker cone produces different frequency and maybe different directions........
True, I mean we are binaural creatures, so headphones should be the way to go, or at least simulating a headphone setup while being surrounded by speakers. 🤷♂️ Apparently that’s essentially what Dirac Live’s new Active Room Treatment does.
I cant Imaginate the cost of a AVR or multichannel amp for 34discret channels 🤔
I think the Trinnov Altitude32 is one of the only ones that can, and I think it’s $30,000? Ridiculous 🤣
@@ealanosborne 😮💨auchh!!
Hey Ealan
Your all videos are very very useful videos,,,,, 👌👌👌👌👍👍👍👍👍💥💥💥💥💥😍😍😍🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩
THANK YOU!!! 😁🤘
Thanks for the info …
You confirmed what I found out the hard way about "Maverick". I watched it last night(4K Dolby Vision) It didn't have great sound. I was disappointed, to say the least. Tron: Legacy that I watched the night before on Bluray sounded much better. As far as DTS X goes, I prefer Atmos. I've always liked to use the DTS soundtrack over Dolby, when available, but Atmos and X changed that for me. Now, if I see a movie has a DTS X soundtrack, I usually skip it(unless it's something I really want to see) Just my .02 cents.
THX NO.1 ^^
DTS:x is technically superior but has seen less adoption, I really hope we see this competition heat up!
Me too! Competition means more innovation at a more rapid pace 🤘🎉
Where is the DTS:X pro content ?
There is none. DTS:X Pro software takes a DTS:X track and more accurately places audio into speaker configurations exceeding 7.1.4
you have a great voice over voice! if you would make other types of video as well as Audio videos etc! you got something incredible!
Thank you for the insight of DTS X pro :)
Thank you for your kind words! 😁🤘
Yeeeeeeep
If you’re rich, that’s cool, but for your average schmuck, that’s unnecessary
Why are you talking like that? Are you hitting on my GF? 🤔
First!